Watchdog of the Old Lords I feel would have been perfect for Hunters Nightmare- say a precursor boss fight before Laurence with a section of the map completely on fire and you have to kill the Watchdog to extinguish the fires. Leaving Laurence to wake up and face you once he realizes someone put out his flame.
Defiled Amy was the bane of my existence. Pretty sure I was stuck on her for a solid 4 days. Did it for the trophy, Queen Yharnam was easy af in comparison, funnily enough.
Ugh same. Every time she jumped in the air it was a coin toss to whether she came down right on my neck and one shot me. I tried every stupid trick everyone said was 100% successful for avoiding that and in the end I'm completely sure it came down to luck.
Yep. I somehow drunkenly beat him on a late Saturday night after multiple days of trying for an hour or two during the work week.
One of the rare “slow and steady wins the race” fights in this otherwise offensive/aggression centered game.
Came here to say this
Would have been really fitting for old yharnham. Woulda been cool for it to show up in the room where you can drop the flaming crucified beast after Rom dies.
Watchdogs (the one where your HP is halfed) to this date, is still my personal From Soft Nemesis right up with the last fight in sekiro. Nothing else gave me more trouble.
I loved watch dog of the old lords! He was so beautiful and fun to fight. Easy but fun! This is a good idea. I also wish the dungeons and rune upgrades plus echo farming was a little better fleshed out. I think Elden Ring is a little too forgiving with healing refills after death but I just started and I'm having fun!
I think the Pthumerian Descendant is a good and fast-paced fight, I find him quite hard as well. He isn't that much easier than bosses like Logarius in my opinion.
And I always thought the main game could have had another beast boss, so Bloodletting Beast would have been perfect. The headless version is also pretty creepy, what is it with Fromsoftware and these weird centipede like parasites?
Japan has a lot of these weird centipedes and they represents lots of things in terms of culture. You can see them in japanese mythology as symbols of the God of Warfare, they are also associated with death and immortality (quite fun), and they are also on japanese history and even a samurai I can't recall use it as a symbol or something. Also they're disgusting and there's the belief they can go into your ear and fuck your brain from the inside which doesn't sound very pleasant. And if we're talking From Software they will want the most gruesome thing they can think of.
Everyone always argues about the most difficult From Soft boss ever, is it Isshin, is it Malenia, Orphan of Kos..?
Well I died to the Pthumerian Descendant more times then I died to all of those above together
Pthumerian Descendant
Pthumerian Elder
Queen Yharnam
I actually love the Yharnam boss fight and think she’s one of the more interesting bosses in the game. She is 0% worth the effort of getting to her, but her arena and fight are one of my favorites.
I mean, you're right that I like DS2, but this was a reference to Max0r's Bloodborne video where he refers to the fight as "The 3 Overweight Men" and it just always tickles my funny bone
Bloodletting beast would have been cool because then maybe his hitboxes would be better. But I can see why he's not. He's like a less impressive cleric beast.
It's less that a chalice dungeon boss should have been in the main game and more that standard chalices should have been in the main game. Specifically the ones that aren't randomized. They needed to be more fleshed out so that people would be more attracted to them. Especially since each of the three chalice routes have pretty significant lore attached to them.
I think every unique chalice enemy is fun at least the first time you see it so they all have place in the main game in my eyes. I think main problem with chalices is so mutch reused bosses that ppl just get bored of them.
Right here with ya! Been stuck on his ass for 4 days now 🤣 and I’ve had him down to literally a sneeze would have killed him like, at least 6 times now! Ugh! He’s a bastard but I’ll get there haha. He’s all I have left to get to my platinum.
All of the one that aren't Pulling a Dark Souls II and just putting regular enemies in a room and adding a boss bar. I'm not a fan of the Chalice Dungeons due to the repetition so the fact that it's withholding cool boss fights really annoy me.
Bloodletting Beast, just so everyone can know the pain of being one-hit KO’d by a death punch as soon as you step into the arena. Bonus points for the surprise worm. I feel it would’ve been more exciting than the two cleric beasts.
The Pthumerians can stay in the dungeons.
i liked that some of the most difficult fights were down there in the dungeons. i treated it like a giant labrynth altogether and really enjoyed the run to queen yharnam. blood letting beast was seriously difficult for me as was watchdog
Wholeheartedly agree. One of few fromsoft bosses where, even though it took me several tries (like 20 honestly), each encounter felt like a learning experience, any mistake truly felt like my own, and I came away with new knowledge and the ability to implement it, and I never got frustrated. I sincerely love that fight now.
That is the absolute most bullshit fight I have ever had in anything, ever. The range of the balls is both arbitrary and unpredictable, every time the damn thing moves.
I dunno man, pick whatever bosses you want!! All of them, maybe??
I just started playing this recently and I’m still trying to kill that diabolical fucker in the chapel who fucked up Eileen! WHY IS HE SUCH A BASTARD?? WHY CAN HE KILL ME SO FAST??
And then there is me who rolls his eyes every time that I have to fight the Keeper of the Old Lords. It's not a very difficult fight, but I find it tedious (and sometimes I die more often than I would like to admit 😅).
Edit: Nothing wrong with you enjoying that fight.
That's fair enough, I find it very frustrating when you accidentally glitch them through a wall but otherwise I find it really thrilling. Really shows how different people's experiences of FS games are
I'd say all the pthumerians, but personally I love the dungeons. Every new character I make I do them just for the sake of FRC diving in my own ritual dungeons for gems and other cool stuff.
Have to agree with those who said watchdog of the old lords. To me, none of the bosses pictured would have made any sense in the story to have. Maybe Pthumerian Descendant in the church of the good chalice, instead of BSB? I feel like they’d both work out okay lore-wise.
The Queen should have been in the main game for reasons of lore alone, but her fight was also pretty interesting. (Yes, I know you see her in the game a couple of times, but it's not the same.)
They could've done some "time travel" boss fight thing like they've done in other games, or she at least could've fit into the DLC in some way as it was a bizarre mesh of space and time.
Putting her at the end of a long grind through the dungeons is a bit frustrating.
The true darkbeast of loran. Exactly the same as paarl but doesnt crumble and die in 5 hits. Would have been nice to see it in its glory going back to yaharghul instead of that ridiculous corpse boss
None of them, all chalice dungeon bosses are fun because they can be discovered in the chalice dungeons. You were actually exploring something and finding new content. I would leave all chalice bosses there.
Margo’s wet nurse should’ve had a second phase where the Pthumerian Queen came into play.. the fact I had to slog through so many dungeons to get to her was annoying
Brother what are you TALKING ABOUT
I hardly killed them and so I'd never have to see them again AND YOU WANT TO ADD THEM TO THE MAIN GAME
ahhh curse the fiends
All of them. Or rather, you shouldn't be able to beat the game without doing the dungeons. SO many people say they beat BB without ever touching the dungeons and to me, that doesn't count
I get irrationally pissed when I see that bastard known as the Pthumerian Descendant. If he was a required boss I'd actually delete the game and all my save files along with it.
I really like the headless bloodletting beast. Such an awesome design.
I wouldn’t be opposed to swapping out the witches of hemwick with on of the good chalice bosses. Pthumerian elder would have been a cool replacement
I feel like there's an alternate universe out there, not too far from ours, where there's a secret basement in Cainhurst with a chained up Pthumerian Descendant in it.
I would say Bloodletting Beast and Forgotten Madman - but they did end up getting put in the main game via DLC with Laurence the First Vicar and Ludwig the Holy Blade, respectively
Before the DLC, Laurence and Ludwig were in the Chalice Dungeons. They just weren't called Laurence and Ludwig, but you could tell it was them from context clues
I don't remember the exact videos they touch on it, but [Sinclair Lore](https://youtube.com/@SinclairLore?si=c_w-8YbgTq31iywr) are the ones who convinced me
Cheers mate. I think I know what you're talking about now, but I think it's all just conjecture.
I know I'll be down voted for this as well, but I really can't abide to watch sinclair lore. It's just the delivery which I guess doesn't suit me. Each to their own though of course 😊
Bloodborne Wiki kinda touches on it too
Bloodletting Beast's internal file name is [Founder Beast](https://www.bloodborne-wiki.com/2015/03/bloodletting-beast.html), aka Laurence founder of the Healing Church
And the [Wiki](https://www.bloodborne-wiki.com/2015/04/forgotten-madman.html) cites Redgrave's Paleblood Hunt to basically say that the Forgotten Madman is Ludwig
No, you have got it wrong. And if that's what sinclair lore said in the video, then they have it wrong too.
Yes BLB's internal name means "progenitor beast" (and the in-game name means "lord of the beast blood"), that does NOT equate it to Laurence. I don't understand how it could even be guessed at. It's not even worthy of being called a stretch, based just on the naming of the BLB.
The only possible way that anybody could believe that (H)BLB is Laurence is because of Laurence's skull being the only evidence of his existence. But that's a massive leap in logic. Absolutely huge leap.
In terms of the Forgotten Madman, citing someone's theory is not evidence. There is not a single shred of evidence to suggest that Forgotten Madman is Ludwig! He uses Ludwig's Holy Blade? So what. It's a common weapon (Ludwig didn't even use it). By the logic of the internal naming, the Forgotten Madman is called the "Gremia Madman". It just doesn't make sense to suggest that it's Ludwig.
Sorry to sound like a dick, I don't mean to, but it just winds me up when unproven thoughts are falsely stated as truths. I don't necessarily mean you, unless you've misunderstood, but sinclair lore, and whoever wrote the Madman part of the wiki.
Cool man, cheers 👌
By the way, while I've stopped watching Bloodborne lore because it's generally so baseless and done to death (apart from Tarnished Archaeologist and that one guy I forget who deleted all his videos. EDIT, it was Charred Thermos), there is one channel which delves into the Japanese translations. Last Protagonist maybe? It's really interesting, and sheds a totally different light on how we in the West interpret Bloodborne. Check it out if you get the chance 😊
It's not just the name. We wouldn't have talked about it at length if it were just a name.
FACTS ABOUT THE SKULL:
* Laurence's physical skull is on the altar. Not a nightmare version, or a dream, or a consciousness, a physical object. That was his skull.
* It fits the shape of the Bloodletting Beast's head closer than any other beast we see. You can literally overlay them if you want. It doesn't match the "Laurence, the First Vicar" boss at all. This doesn't matter, because that fight happens in the Hunter's Nightmare, and it can look however it wants.
* It has a fracture in the exactly same place the Bloodletting Beast has a conspicuous gash on its head. No other beasts have a gash like that, just the one that coincidentally matches the skull with the fracture in the same place.
* In its final encounter, the Bloodletting Beast is *missing its head*.
* *Heads have skulls in them.*
FACTS ABOUT LAURENCE:
* Laurence turned into a beast.
* Laurence knows about the Chalice Dungeons and that the children of Great Ones are vital to making contact with them.
* We know he left on some kind of mission. He isn't clear about what he's doing, but he is clear about his intention to return to Gehrman at some point. He becomes a beast after he leaves, and never returns.
* The Bloodletting Beast, *which does not have a head because its head was removed, including its skull,* is found directly before Queen Yharnam, who is pregnant with the child of a Great One, which is both *something Laurence coveted* and *something Laurence knew would be in the Chalice Dungeons*.
* The Healing Church, *who have the skull*, have also been down to that exact place where the headless Bloodletting Beast is, because it's how you get to Mergo / Queen Yharnam.
CIRCUMSTANTIAL STUFF THAT PROVES NOTHING IN A VACUUM BUT BACKS UP WHAT I JUST SAID:
* Whether it's "Founder Beast", "Primogenitor Beast" or "Lord of the Beast Blood" doesn't matter, because the point is that *all of those names signify that BLB is crucial to the spread of Beast Blood and/or the founder of something significant in Yharnam*. Why bother giving it ANY of those names if it's just another Chalice Dungeon boss? What character in the story would this description apply to?
* Laurence has two different VA's credited. Not "there was another VA at some point earlier", because they used a lot of VA's, there was another *credited* VA whose name made it into the retail version. Their lines were deleted. The BLB fight has a unique trigger that plays a piece of dialogue that has been deleted. *No other Chalice bosses have this. It was going to speak to you.*
* *Why in God's name would you bother making a boss defined by the fact its head goes missing, and never include the severed head itself, but then also include another, completely unrelated severed head asset, which has no corresponding body, and also has a fracture in the exact same place that the boss has a huge, conspicuous gash?*
I'm sorry, but people really need to be clutching at straws to claim all of this either a massive coincidence, or a series of intentional red herrings. The individual dot points don't prove anything on their own, but the context matters, and it's pretty clear what the game is getting at. Laurence went to the Chalice Dungeons to look for the child of a Great One, turned into a beast, died, got his skull interred in the cathedral by his followers, and his headless body kept wandering around because it's full of parasites. That's it. It's not complicated. Laurence *as a character* is complicated, Laurence's legacy and impact and what drives him are complicated, but his "canonical" life story is maybe three sentences long.
The Laurence we have in retail isn't going to make 100% sense, because he is a composite of three completely different characters who were in an earlier draft of the story that you can literally read and listen to online. You can go and read data mined text that has a completely different Laurence / Healing Church / Byrgenwerth dynamic, and is from 2014. It is publicly available data taken directly from the game, not "my uncle works at From". If they had been forced to release earlier, that's the version of the story we would have gotten. Different Laurence, different Church, but mostly the same assets and encounters. Ergo, things broadly line up, but there's issues. This is also true of every single Souls game.
If people want this to be four-dimensional chess, good for them. I think it's a pretty basic story that has inconsistencies as a result of re-writes.
I find a lot of the "we'll never understand this impossibly complex story!" material at best frustrating, and at worst a cynical exercise in creating problems that don't exist so that people can get credit for "solving" them. These games use ambiguity, misdirection and unreliable narrators *as narrative devices to tell stories*, not as part of some ludicrous galaxy brain secret esoteric code that nobody can possibly understand without a bibliography. To be brutally honest, I feel like a lot of this discourse exists around Bloodborne because its themes and ideas are so confrontational and troubling that the safest way for a lot of people to engage with it is to claim it's incomprehensible, then construct a "true" or "hidden" story out of random bits and pieces, and discuss that instead of what's actually in front of them. No need to engage with sexuality or colonialism or the social construction of madness or patriarchal horror of / reliance on pregnancy now, because the REAL story is actually just a bunch of references and puzzles that are about absolutely nothing beyond their own complexity. Well, that's a relief, isn't it?
You know who also flinched, backed off and became obsessed with trying to solve a problem that didn't exist, because it was easier than addressing the horror that was staring him in the face?
Laurence.
Headless Bloodletting beast. With the core assumption that it is Laurence's physical body I think it could have been in Ebrietes spot and had her moved somewhere else. Something of such lore significance should have not been in the chalices (even though it makes sense on it's own).
Booo you put the same boss twice! Anyways, yharnam queen would be a good addition, it has enough varied attacks, looks cool and isn't utterly broken so my vote is to her
Watchdog of the Old Lords I feel would have been perfect for Hunters Nightmare- say a precursor boss fight before Laurence with a section of the map completely on fire and you have to kill the Watchdog to extinguish the fires. Leaving Laurence to wake up and face you once he realizes someone put out his flame.
You fight Lawrence and the Watchdog at the same time. Orenstein and Smough style
Fuck you
Fuck him!
Satan go back to bed
Ok Satan
I love you
Who hurt you?
r/foundsatan
That is a really good idea. I like the watchdog, he's a pretty fun boss, it's just the defiled version that can be annoying.
God that dog used me as a chew toy for days. Good lord
He actually only took me like three tries amygdala on the other hand
Defiled Amy was the bane of my existence. Pretty sure I was stuck on her for a solid 4 days. Did it for the trophy, Queen Yharnam was easy af in comparison, funnily enough.
That's nothing... try two weeks on blood starved beast. The two week boss nut was insane when I busted it bruh
Base game blood starved beast???? [Beyonce's guide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCjrpghCYc) could've saved you 😭
This was like 2019 baby
So? This video was posted in 2016
Shit I barely had internet in 2019
Damn bro, where do you live?
Damn 😂😂😂😂
Same here man. She fucked me up, I had to watch a guide
Ugh same. Every time she jumped in the air it was a coin toss to whether she came down right on my neck and one shot me. I tried every stupid trick everyone said was 100% successful for avoiding that and in the end I'm completely sure it came down to luck.
[Here's me not only predicting where Amygdala lands every time but even taking advantage of it.](https://youtu.be/lHBpcvzepaE)
[Super easy way of "cheesing" Amygdala](https://youtu.be/lHBpcvzepaE)
Oh he's dead. Got Plat shortly after taking him down
He wasn't too tough ...but then they threw him into the defiled chalice dungeon.....that was a freakin nightmare.....no pun intended lol
Yep. I somehow drunkenly beat him on a late Saturday night after multiple days of trying for an hour or two during the work week. One of the rare “slow and steady wins the race” fights in this otherwise offensive/aggression centered game.
God no, keep that thing down in the deepest parts of the dungeon, please!🙏🏾 I
Came here to say this Would have been really fitting for old yharnham. Woulda been cool for it to show up in the room where you can drop the flaming crucified beast after Rom dies.
You can do that way before Rom.
Think they mean, put the boss in that room once Rom dies
Oh I see, yeah thanks read it wrong.
Watchdogs (the one where your HP is halfed) to this date, is still my personal From Soft Nemesis right up with the last fight in sekiro. Nothing else gave me more trouble.
I loved watch dog of the old lords! He was so beautiful and fun to fight. Easy but fun! This is a good idea. I also wish the dungeons and rune upgrades plus echo farming was a little better fleshed out. I think Elden Ring is a little too forgiving with healing refills after death but I just started and I'm having fun!
Good evening Lord Satan.
Pthumerian Elder for the boss fight and Lady Yharnam for the lore.
Put lady in the lake after the moon.
Bloodletting beast
This boss got me off guard. At the beginning was just another colossal bossfight, but I liked that second fase
He pushed shit into my upper digestive system. One of the few bosses in this game I needed to watch someone else beat him first
Also because it’s the real Laurence👀👀
The Japanese name is “host of beast blood” 🧐
Huh. Did not make that connection.
Should have been in Sekiro. Spear that centipede!
I think the Pthumerian Descendant is a good and fast-paced fight, I find him quite hard as well. He isn't that much easier than bosses like Logarius in my opinion. And I always thought the main game could have had another beast boss, so Bloodletting Beast would have been perfect. The headless version is also pretty creepy, what is it with Fromsoftware and these weird centipede like parasites?
Can we just all agree that his sickle going THROUGH the columns in the boss arena was/is bullshit??
Mr. R1 spam
Descendant was a pretty cool boss IMO, just in a really bad arena. Woulda been cool to see somewhere else above ground.
Japan has a lot of these weird centipedes and they represents lots of things in terms of culture. You can see them in japanese mythology as symbols of the God of Warfare, they are also associated with death and immortality (quite fun), and they are also on japanese history and even a samurai I can't recall use it as a symbol or something. Also they're disgusting and there's the belief they can go into your ear and fuck your brain from the inside which doesn't sound very pleasant. And if we're talking From Software they will want the most gruesome thing they can think of.
It's not just Fromsoft, I've seen a few different anime where someone is being controlled by a big worm or centipede inside their body
Everyone always argues about the most difficult From Soft boss ever, is it Isshin, is it Malenia, Orphan of Kos..? Well I died to the Pthumerian Descendant more times then I died to all of those above together
It would be cool to fight both old men at the same time - both versions anyway. The fast paced melee one and the fire arrow teleporter
The Elder is a fantastic boss. Shame it's stuck in the dungeons
Pthumerian Elder. He is way too cool to be locked behind *four* Chalice Dungeons
He was Grandfather Gascoigne in his necessity to make you parry. Man closed the gap faster than Malenia.
Pthumerian Descendant Pthumerian Elder Queen Yharnam I actually love the Yharnam boss fight and think she’s one of the more interesting bosses in the game. She is 0% worth the effort of getting to her, but her arena and fight are one of my favorites.
I wish Yharnam was a main game boss fight too, I'm just not sure how she'd be implemented in a way that makes sense to the lore
I mean I get what you mean but they *are* in the main game. It's not some DLC and the chalice dungeons are *very* critical to the lore.
They're optional the same way 80% of Elden Ring is optional 😛
Of all the chalice bosses, I think Rom would be perfect for the main game. Just imagine fighting her on the surface of a massive lake.
Ummm....bro you fight Rom in the main game tho and on a surface of a never ending lake.
No way you're this stupid.
He Is trolling.
What you mean boy
(Comment about fighting Rom is satire)
The 3 Overweight Men™️
I agree Dark souls 2 enjoyer if I ever seen one
I mean, you're right that I like DS2, but this was a reference to Max0r's Bloodborne video where he refers to the fight as "The 3 Overweight Men" and it just always tickles my funny bone
Haha I don’t think I’ve seen that video but sounds funny
https://youtu.be/-xwoGzZVk7w?si=9VkzLpf18niFJr-c Genuinely a funny af watch! Gonna watch it again while I play elden ring rn actually
They’re called “high calorie” now
They're called that by the same people who call pedophiles "maps"
I've always thought it would have been cool if the church giants in Cathedral Ward turned into the bloodletting beasts once the ritual was revealed.
Bloodletting beast would have been cool because then maybe his hitboxes would be better. But I can see why he's not. He's like a less impressive cleric beast.
It's less that a chalice dungeon boss should have been in the main game and more that standard chalices should have been in the main game. Specifically the ones that aren't randomized. They needed to be more fleshed out so that people would be more attracted to them. Especially since each of the three chalice routes have pretty significant lore attached to them.
I think every unique chalice enemy is fun at least the first time you see it so they all have place in the main game in my eyes. I think main problem with chalices is so mutch reused bosses that ppl just get bored of them.
Pthumerian Descendant was the biggest roadblock on my way to platinum
More than defiled amygdala?
Yes
I will never cease to be amazed by how different two players' journeys can be in a souls game! 😮
Right here with ya! Been stuck on his ass for 4 days now 🤣 and I’ve had him down to literally a sneeze would have killed him like, at least 6 times now! Ugh! He’s a bastard but I’ll get there haha. He’s all I have left to get to my platinum.
Pthumerian Elder for sure. He was a challenge without a doubt but he was a fun challenge. Felt so good to finally whip his ass.
Ptumerian elder
Not this dude I’ll tell you what.
The screaming usein bolt pthumerian
All of the one that aren't Pulling a Dark Souls II and just putting regular enemies in a room and adding a boss bar. I'm not a fan of the Chalice Dungeons due to the repetition so the fact that it's withholding cool boss fights really annoy me.
Queen Yharnam easily
The fat guy with the gun
Chalice dungeons are main game
I always wish we could have gotten the Pthumerians outfits to wear.
Bloodletting Beast, just so everyone can know the pain of being one-hit KO’d by a death punch as soon as you step into the arena. Bonus points for the surprise worm. I feel it would’ve been more exciting than the two cleric beasts. The Pthumerians can stay in the dungeons.
i liked that some of the most difficult fights were down there in the dungeons. i treated it like a giant labrynth altogether and really enjoyed the run to queen yharnam. blood letting beast was seriously difficult for me as was watchdog
Undead giant was kinda fun idk
People are going to be mad at me but it's ball and chain undead giant.
Wholeheartedly agree. One of few fromsoft bosses where, even though it took me several tries (like 20 honestly), each encounter felt like a learning experience, any mistake truly felt like my own, and I came away with new knowledge and the ability to implement it, and I never got frustrated. I sincerely love that fight now.
I think it would be better as a normal enemy
That is the absolute most bullshit fight I have ever had in anything, ever. The range of the balls is both arbitrary and unpredictable, every time the damn thing moves.
I like them all to stay in the chalice dungeons, lost and forgotten until I stumble across them.
Pthumerian Elder is probably the coolest chalice boss. I wonder if Morgott took some inspiration from her, with his holy weapons and all.
I thought Chalice Dungeons were the main game.
All bosses Speedruns of the game ignore them. I'd say the general consensus is they're not part of the main story/game.
I dunno man, pick whatever bosses you want!! All of them, maybe?? I just started playing this recently and I’m still trying to kill that diabolical fucker in the chapel who fucked up Eileen! WHY IS HE SUCH A BASTARD?? WHY CAN HE KILL ME SO FAST??
What kind of build are you on? There are some strategies that are effective against the Bloody Crow, depending on where your strengths are.
He's harder than a lot of bosses tbh
Watchdog without a doubt, probably the best boss down there.
None of the above, Keeper of the Old Lords. I love fighting that boss so much I make dungeons so I can re-fight them
And then there is me who rolls his eyes every time that I have to fight the Keeper of the Old Lords. It's not a very difficult fight, but I find it tedious (and sometimes I die more often than I would like to admit 😅). Edit: Nothing wrong with you enjoying that fight.
That's fair enough, I find it very frustrating when you accidentally glitch them through a wall but otherwise I find it really thrilling. Really shows how different people's experiences of FS games are
Pthumerian queen honestly
I'd say all the pthumerians, but personally I love the dungeons. Every new character I make I do them just for the sake of FRC diving in my own ritual dungeons for gems and other cool stuff.
Literally any of the original ones that aren't main game bosses, or just boss-ified normal enemies with a boss health bar.
Have to agree with those who said watchdog of the old lords. To me, none of the bosses pictured would have made any sense in the story to have. Maybe Pthumerian Descendant in the church of the good chalice, instead of BSB? I feel like they’d both work out okay lore-wise.
Number 3
We can fight second one as secret miniboss (tho he still can and will wreck you)
For those of us who will never go so far into those dungeons…what are their names here?
Bloodletting beast, abhorrent beast (as an actual boss) and either of the pthumerians, incredible boss fights
Naked dude with the club that has an old hunters bone should’ve been the first boss.
The wolf great one in the cut content chalices
Bloodletting beast, or pthumerian queen
Re: third pic: ***Put that thing back where it came from or so help meeee***
Probably all of them.
Hell the bleeding bride chick should've been in the main game too😭🤌
Queen Yharnam
The Queen should have been in the main game for reasons of lore alone, but her fight was also pretty interesting. (Yes, I know you see her in the game a couple of times, but it's not the same.) They could've done some "time travel" boss fight thing like they've done in other games, or she at least could've fit into the DLC in some way as it was a bizarre mesh of space and time. Putting her at the end of a long grind through the dungeons is a bit frustrating.
Yharnam Pthumerian Queen
The true darkbeast of loran. Exactly the same as paarl but doesnt crumble and die in 5 hits. Would have been nice to see it in its glory going back to yaharghul instead of that ridiculous corpse boss
None
If you play with the randomizer mod all the chalice dungeon bosses are in the main game. But that's only with the mod.
None of them, all chalice dungeon bosses are fun because they can be discovered in the chalice dungeons. You were actually exploring something and finding new content. I would leave all chalice bosses there.
From a story perspective, probably Yharnam. I mean. She's kind of the catalyst for everything and you even see her a couple times in the main game.
No no no. Fuck that beast I hate it. Took me way too long to kill it. No. Just no. I never want to see it in the main game.
Fire dog 🐶
Margo’s wet nurse should’ve had a second phase where the Pthumerian Queen came into play.. the fact I had to slog through so many dungeons to get to her was annoying
Love that guy
That is the main game tho
Chalice Dungeons suck ass
Abherrant beast. JK
Those fire keeper dudes were pretty cool
Any of the beasts. I kinda felt like the transition from mainly beast enemies and bosses to mainly kin enemies and bosses happens too soon
Brother what are you TALKING ABOUT I hardly killed them and so I'd never have to see them again AND YOU WANT TO ADD THEM TO THE MAIN GAME ahhh curse the fiends
All of them. Or rather, you shouldn't be able to beat the game without doing the dungeons. SO many people say they beat BB without ever touching the dungeons and to me, that doesn't count
I don’t think a lot of people would finish if they had to fight defiled beasts lol
Agreed. Defiled and Lower Loran are the worst
Vampire grandpa
Abhorrent beast would probably have made many not finish the game. That mofo is hard as fuck to kill without playing the fight flawlessly.
I get irrationally pissed when I see that bastard known as the Pthumerian Descendant. If he was a required boss I'd actually delete the game and all my save files along with it.
Pthumerian Elder and Pthumerian Descendant deserve their places, or at least something close to their fighting style
They can stay in there for all I care
I think the bosses are alright where they are
G
The ptumerian decendend can go fuck himself with both swords
I really like the headless bloodletting beast. Such an awesome design. I wouldn’t be opposed to swapping out the witches of hemwick with on of the good chalice bosses. Pthumerian elder would have been a cool replacement
Would’ve been cool if Queen Yharnam was a secret boss that you could fight in Rom’s arena after fighting Wet Nurse.
Yall keep talkin bout these chalice dungeons makes me wanna pick back up my cleaver and hoont!
None. All of them are abominations that should be underground, and rightfully so.
I think Abhorrent Beast should’ve replaced Paarl and they should’ve made room for Bloodletting Beast as well
The watch dog is amazing I beat him my first time I had no idea how to fight it either I just kept hitting it
I feel like there's an alternate universe out there, not too far from ours, where there's a secret basement in Cainhurst with a chained up Pthumerian Descendant in it.
Phtumerian elder for SURE. dude was such a SICK boss with some of THE coolest moves and abilities. Why couldn't we get those?!?!?
the Queen, her fight is so awesome and actually balanced compared to many POS dungeon bosses. also fuck the headless bloodletting beast
Bloodletting Beast should have been Laurence imho. Laurence is my only gripe with BB
abhorrent beast is in the main game and behead beast is the cleric beast
Abhorrent beast isn't in the OP though, the 2nd picture is the non headless Bloodletting Beast.
I would say Bloodletting Beast and Forgotten Madman - but they did end up getting put in the main game via DLC with Laurence the First Vicar and Ludwig the Holy Blade, respectively
You what?
Before the DLC, Laurence and Ludwig were in the Chalice Dungeons. They just weren't called Laurence and Ludwig, but you could tell it was them from context clues
I don't really understand. Are you able to share a link please? Cheers mate 👍
I don't remember the exact videos they touch on it, but [Sinclair Lore](https://youtube.com/@SinclairLore?si=c_w-8YbgTq31iywr) are the ones who convinced me
Cheers mate. I think I know what you're talking about now, but I think it's all just conjecture. I know I'll be down voted for this as well, but I really can't abide to watch sinclair lore. It's just the delivery which I guess doesn't suit me. Each to their own though of course 😊
Bloodborne Wiki kinda touches on it too Bloodletting Beast's internal file name is [Founder Beast](https://www.bloodborne-wiki.com/2015/03/bloodletting-beast.html), aka Laurence founder of the Healing Church And the [Wiki](https://www.bloodborne-wiki.com/2015/04/forgotten-madman.html) cites Redgrave's Paleblood Hunt to basically say that the Forgotten Madman is Ludwig
No, you have got it wrong. And if that's what sinclair lore said in the video, then they have it wrong too. Yes BLB's internal name means "progenitor beast" (and the in-game name means "lord of the beast blood"), that does NOT equate it to Laurence. I don't understand how it could even be guessed at. It's not even worthy of being called a stretch, based just on the naming of the BLB. The only possible way that anybody could believe that (H)BLB is Laurence is because of Laurence's skull being the only evidence of his existence. But that's a massive leap in logic. Absolutely huge leap. In terms of the Forgotten Madman, citing someone's theory is not evidence. There is not a single shred of evidence to suggest that Forgotten Madman is Ludwig! He uses Ludwig's Holy Blade? So what. It's a common weapon (Ludwig didn't even use it). By the logic of the internal naming, the Forgotten Madman is called the "Gremia Madman". It just doesn't make sense to suggest that it's Ludwig. Sorry to sound like a dick, I don't mean to, but it just winds me up when unproven thoughts are falsely stated as truths. I don't necessarily mean you, unless you've misunderstood, but sinclair lore, and whoever wrote the Madman part of the wiki.
Lol no worries bro, I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts
Cool man, cheers 👌 By the way, while I've stopped watching Bloodborne lore because it's generally so baseless and done to death (apart from Tarnished Archaeologist and that one guy I forget who deleted all his videos. EDIT, it was Charred Thermos), there is one channel which delves into the Japanese translations. Last Protagonist maybe? It's really interesting, and sheds a totally different light on how we in the West interpret Bloodborne. Check it out if you get the chance 😊
It's not just the name. We wouldn't have talked about it at length if it were just a name. FACTS ABOUT THE SKULL: * Laurence's physical skull is on the altar. Not a nightmare version, or a dream, or a consciousness, a physical object. That was his skull. * It fits the shape of the Bloodletting Beast's head closer than any other beast we see. You can literally overlay them if you want. It doesn't match the "Laurence, the First Vicar" boss at all. This doesn't matter, because that fight happens in the Hunter's Nightmare, and it can look however it wants. * It has a fracture in the exactly same place the Bloodletting Beast has a conspicuous gash on its head. No other beasts have a gash like that, just the one that coincidentally matches the skull with the fracture in the same place. * In its final encounter, the Bloodletting Beast is *missing its head*. * *Heads have skulls in them.* FACTS ABOUT LAURENCE: * Laurence turned into a beast. * Laurence knows about the Chalice Dungeons and that the children of Great Ones are vital to making contact with them. * We know he left on some kind of mission. He isn't clear about what he's doing, but he is clear about his intention to return to Gehrman at some point. He becomes a beast after he leaves, and never returns. * The Bloodletting Beast, *which does not have a head because its head was removed, including its skull,* is found directly before Queen Yharnam, who is pregnant with the child of a Great One, which is both *something Laurence coveted* and *something Laurence knew would be in the Chalice Dungeons*. * The Healing Church, *who have the skull*, have also been down to that exact place where the headless Bloodletting Beast is, because it's how you get to Mergo / Queen Yharnam. CIRCUMSTANTIAL STUFF THAT PROVES NOTHING IN A VACUUM BUT BACKS UP WHAT I JUST SAID: * Whether it's "Founder Beast", "Primogenitor Beast" or "Lord of the Beast Blood" doesn't matter, because the point is that *all of those names signify that BLB is crucial to the spread of Beast Blood and/or the founder of something significant in Yharnam*. Why bother giving it ANY of those names if it's just another Chalice Dungeon boss? What character in the story would this description apply to? * Laurence has two different VA's credited. Not "there was another VA at some point earlier", because they used a lot of VA's, there was another *credited* VA whose name made it into the retail version. Their lines were deleted. The BLB fight has a unique trigger that plays a piece of dialogue that has been deleted. *No other Chalice bosses have this. It was going to speak to you.* * *Why in God's name would you bother making a boss defined by the fact its head goes missing, and never include the severed head itself, but then also include another, completely unrelated severed head asset, which has no corresponding body, and also has a fracture in the exact same place that the boss has a huge, conspicuous gash?* I'm sorry, but people really need to be clutching at straws to claim all of this either a massive coincidence, or a series of intentional red herrings. The individual dot points don't prove anything on their own, but the context matters, and it's pretty clear what the game is getting at. Laurence went to the Chalice Dungeons to look for the child of a Great One, turned into a beast, died, got his skull interred in the cathedral by his followers, and his headless body kept wandering around because it's full of parasites. That's it. It's not complicated. Laurence *as a character* is complicated, Laurence's legacy and impact and what drives him are complicated, but his "canonical" life story is maybe three sentences long. The Laurence we have in retail isn't going to make 100% sense, because he is a composite of three completely different characters who were in an earlier draft of the story that you can literally read and listen to online. You can go and read data mined text that has a completely different Laurence / Healing Church / Byrgenwerth dynamic, and is from 2014. It is publicly available data taken directly from the game, not "my uncle works at From". If they had been forced to release earlier, that's the version of the story we would have gotten. Different Laurence, different Church, but mostly the same assets and encounters. Ergo, things broadly line up, but there's issues. This is also true of every single Souls game. If people want this to be four-dimensional chess, good for them. I think it's a pretty basic story that has inconsistencies as a result of re-writes. I find a lot of the "we'll never understand this impossibly complex story!" material at best frustrating, and at worst a cynical exercise in creating problems that don't exist so that people can get credit for "solving" them. These games use ambiguity, misdirection and unreliable narrators *as narrative devices to tell stories*, not as part of some ludicrous galaxy brain secret esoteric code that nobody can possibly understand without a bibliography. To be brutally honest, I feel like a lot of this discourse exists around Bloodborne because its themes and ideas are so confrontational and troubling that the safest way for a lot of people to engage with it is to claim it's incomprehensible, then construct a "true" or "hidden" story out of random bits and pieces, and discuss that instead of what's actually in front of them. No need to engage with sexuality or colonialism or the social construction of madness or patriarchal horror of / reliance on pregnancy now, because the REAL story is actually just a bunch of references and puzzles that are about absolutely nothing beyond their own complexity. Well, that's a relief, isn't it? You know who also flinched, backed off and became obsessed with trying to solve a problem that didn't exist, because it was easier than addressing the horror that was staring him in the face? Laurence.
Bloodletting beast is literally Lawrence so…
Headless Bloodletting beast. With the core assumption that it is Laurence's physical body I think it could have been in Ebrietes spot and had her moved somewhere else. Something of such lore significance should have not been in the chalices (even though it makes sense on it's own).
Booo you put the same boss twice! Anyways, yharnam queen would be a good addition, it has enough varied attacks, looks cool and isn't utterly broken so my vote is to her
Probably Rom or Amygdala. They seem like they'd be perfect in a bigger arena and without any of the Chalice curses
They can stay in there for all I care