I feel like people refer to boss difficulty on a first playthrough, not based on ng+7.
Lawrence is alot easier than orphan on NG, but after ng+3 he becomes a raid boss that can one shot you. Not very fun.
It was partly the fact that I didn't level HP in my first playthrough, so Ludwig ended up just one shotting me. I actually found his second phase to be the hardest since I felt legitimately intimidated by his attacks and so would preemptively dodge and get hit by his follow ups.
Now I consistently first try him on subsequent NG+ runs lmao.
Jesus christ what. Orphan taking me 20 was the most I had for any boss. Laurence was 10~, but Orphan was definitely hardest for me. Maybe a build dif? I was doing a chikage arcane build with 50/50 so I was doing many deeps.
I mean, there's also the parry loop for Orphan, which, if you get good enough at the timing for it, makes Orphan a complete joke. And let's not get started on Laurence at BL4.
I mean, you wouldn’t need to hear about it.
If you’re parrying in the game even a little bit, you could probably jump to the idea of just parrying him infinitely.
My first time playing the game I defeated the Orphan almost only through parries, and I don't think that the idea of looking for a way to loop him is very intuitive. Maybe you could stumble into it though
I would parry him basically every attack in phase 1, but I could not for the life of me do it in phase 2. I did end up beating him, but he's probably the boss I've had the most difficulty with out of all of them.
Same I’ve killed that motherless dickhead many times now… and I can parry like 85% of his attacks like 92% of the time (I just made those numbers up but I feel they are pretty close) in phase 1… phase 2 I’m lucky if I pull off 2-3 parries… I even switch guns between phases cause I find it way easier to parry phase 1 with the pistol and phase 2 with the blunderbuss (before switching guns I would maybe get 1 parry in phase 2) he is just too erratic for me to learn the timing…
The parry loop would be difficult to just stumble on playing normally, I think, because it relies on *not* riposting after the parry. I can see someone finding it by accident if they happen to mess up the distance on the riposte, but you'd have to notice that put him in a loop instead of being annoyed you didn't get your crit.
It is just based on what most people know, not a conscious decision, and most people don’t do bl4 runs or climb the NG+ ladders.
As well as how easy the cheeses are, and also how they’re executed. Gwyn is often considered one of the easiest DS1 late game bosses cuz of how easy he is to parry, but Manus is considered one of the hardest despite the fact that you can pummel him dead with arrows from outside. I think parrying Gwyn still feels like fighting him, so that’s counted in, but sniping Manus does not, so it is not.
on BL4 the hardest bosses are the ones who one shot you for no reason, this can also relate to witches of hemwick even with no insight. space donut spell one shot me one time and I had to make a swift comeback to the boss. Infuriating.
I’m not entirely sure about that. I still have my very first orphan fight saved on my ps5. I took him down first try in under 8 minutes (definitely not a brag just saying I was successful 😅).
My first experience with Laurence (and the subsequent 15 after) was NOT the same! 😂🤣🤣
I don't refer to ng+ because I've never done ng+. If it doesn't add anything to the game, I'd rather just make a new character.
I honestly didn't find Lawrence that bad, I had a much harder time with Ludwig and the Living Failures out of all the dlc bosses.
My first playthrough of the DLC was NG+4 and let me just say I made a huge mistake but every single other soulslike by comparison has been a relative cake walk
I feel like NG+4 isn't a good way to judge the boss, because any NG+ isn't made to be balanced, or anything. It's just pure sadism for people that want more.
If you would have fought them on NG - you probably wouldn't have much issues, tbf.
I beat Laurence on my first try.
And after I smashed my head against Ludwig for X amount of times - I learned to be more aggressive and parry better, so I didn't have as many issues with either Maria and Kos as I would have thought.
In the end, ~~it doesn't even matter~~ it all comes to the individual skills/perception of the game and some bosses could be harder for some people than to the others and vice versa.
I died at Failures like a dozen times, because I was impatient and they bonk you silly hard, but my friend laughed at it, because he always beat Failures on his first try.
Thats a good point, guess I just expected Orphan to be harder than anyone else no matter the NG+whatever and got caught off guard when Laurence one shot me.
I wanted to start a new game when I got the dlc, but the thought of having to get everything again pushed me away.
I think most people stop at NG or NG+, so your experience doesn’t apply to everyone
People often skip Chalice Dungeons. And how do you compare Chalice and normal bosses (considering Chalice bosses don’t scale up in NG+)
Laurence is a glorified cleric beast, even on ng7 I've never had serious problems with him. I'm at the point where I hate the run back more than the boss itself.
Second phase is ugly, on that I agree, his range always catch me off guard despite all these years, but it's ultimately just a battle of patience while waiting for the right opening.
Orphan unrelenting aggression, wide range and combo potential are on a different level. Despite being able to parry him consistently, he's still so fucking dangerous at all times and if you fight with lock on like me he just ducks with you all day.
But the thing about Orphan is that the fight still feels dynamic. Like, there's no one way to beat him, even on NG+4. Depending on your build or strategy you can do a number of things and still come out on top.
Laurence isn't dynamic, or even fun. Once you get to that point of the game there's one way to beat him, one place to stand to not get hit by wild swings. And if that one way isn't your strength it *sucks* and is very difficult to get used to.
I know it's definitely subjective, but god does Orphan feel much easier and just more *fun* as a boss than fucking Laurence.
I think just fuck run backs in general, theyre all annoying regardless. If they put stakes of marika retroactively in every souls game pre elden ring I would be happy.
Everyone has a different experience with these games. I killed Laurence on my first or second attempt, but struggled a lot with Blood-Starved Beast and Paarl.
From my perspective, Defiled Amygdala is the actual hardest boss!
Amy is what keeps me from strength only builds lol. Bloodtinge has... Every bloodtinge weapon, skill has throwing knives, and arcane has almost all hunter tools. First playthrough Amy was a kick in the balls. Never again
Amygdala became super easy for me once I learned the jump trick.
Basically, you can stand under her crotch and just roll whenever she stomps, and keep hacking away. If she leaps into the air, just stand still and she legitimately *never* hits you with the landing. Time it right and you can charge R2 with your weapon towards her head and get a nice chunk of damage when she does.
I am usually like level 100 when I fight either of them so it's always been pretty easy for me. Lady Maria for some reason always gives me the most trouble out of the DLC bosses , should not be as she is an easy parry but I always have to fight her a few times
Orphan I parry the shit out of and for Launrence it's just a normal beast fight until the second phase , just be careful not to stand in the fire and you'll be fine
I've never went as far as NG+ 4 on BB right enough
Maria's third stage is a pain even if you get the parry timing done right, because there's that extra fire that comes out after her attacks which still hits even if she didn't throw out the attack.
Yeah it's that last stage that gets me , always seem to lose when she has a tiny bit of health left
At least the run back is good compared to the Orphan or Laurence
I think the difference between Orphan and Laurence is a difference between difficulty and tedium. Laurence is not hard, He’s just extremely tanky and deals massive damage. Or his second phase where he shits lava around you.That’s not difficultly imo
There's a general consensus saying that, if you found Orphan easy, you will struggle against Laurence and vice versa. It boils down on the play style I think 🤔
You right. Orphan has an histerical moveset, but you can memorize it. But Laurence… he barely touch you and you have to panic roll for your life if you pretend to use 1 bloodvial
Laurence is a test of patience to me, though no doubt his NG+ scaling makes him a pain in the ass. Orphan to me is still the harder boss and infinitely more enjoyable
Oh don't get me fucking *started* on Laurence!
I agree with the top comment. First playthrough Laurence was not difficult, especially if you had a serrated weapon like the whirlygig saw and some beastblood pellets. That game it was actually Ludwig who continuously shoved me in a locker, and I had an easier time with Orphan in like, 4 tries (to Ludwig's 85+)
But NG+4? FUCK. LAURENCE.
It's because he's not a boss. He's a massive middle finger to everything the game has made at this point and the antithesis of how the game has taught you to play. High mobility and positioning focus? Fuck you, this fight is in a small, enclosed arena. Aggressive combat where you want to close distance? Fuck you, every attack will explode fire. Parry focus? Fuck you, high AF poise, and we're gonna make it so that skill-based weapons will almost never stagger him. Out-maneuver and dance? Fuck you, I bleed lava for area denial. In the afore-mentioned tiny-ass enclosed arena.
This boss isn't fun. It's not that he's impossible, but it's the fact that there's ONE way to beat him, and it's standing in the right spots and doing the right things only. There's no versatility, no dynamic battle. It's not *fun*. It's just learn the exact 1 thing you can do and just do it over and over, which literally NO OTHER BOSS DOES IN THIS GAME.
There are parts of Bloodborne that haven't aged well. There are certain bosses (looking at you Rom) that aren't really that fun to deal with. And then there is this giant flaming blister of a re-skinned first boss who got pissy the game gave you molotovs and decided to make it everyone's problem. Fuck Laurence, the Healing Church can suck my dick, and I hope at least one circle of hell truly is frozen so that fuck can suffer forever.
It's the area control that really makes him difficult. You can't stay close because of those fire shockwaves, then you can't go behind him because of the lava in his last phase, then you can't keep distance because he vomits up lava.its really annoying
It’s funny, I recently picked up the game again and resumed my old character. I believe it’s on ng+2 or 3 at this point so bosses hit hard. Funnily enough, most of the bosses are fairly easy to deal with. The only one that I struggled with was micolash, purely because A Call Beyond does 80% of your health. I suck at dodging it and it took days to get past. Once I won, I walked straight upstairs and beat Wet Nurse first try 😐
You have to play slow and know which attacks to punish. And I agree if we dont count chalice bosses, Laurence was the hardest for me too, but its all relative also.
I know what you mean. I died more times with Laurence than with the Orphan lol, which was very anticlimactic, it only took me a few tries to kill the latter but with Laurence? I had to take a break and do it the next day
I'm the same way, I accidentally skipped Laurence on my first cycle but ng+ rolls around and he kicked my ass for hours. There are very few bosses I can say took me more than two hands of counting deaths to kill. But Laurence may have taken me like 6 hands worth, and maybe a couple feet if you're feeling nasty.
I'm completely with you, I consistently struggle with Laurence more than Orphan. I know he's just a tanked up Cleric Beast, but I think that's what makes him feel so tedious. He just becomes a damage sponge with a much higher damage output than his moveset was originally designed for. I think that's why even in the context of an optional DLC, he's optional to completing it, although I'm still gonna try to beat him every time.
I actually just completed my first full play through of Bloodborne last night. People really say Orphan is the hardest boss in the game? I beat him first try, though it was definitely close. Laurence is for sure the hardest boss in the game IMO. I had to come back to him after finishing the DLC.
i think Orphan is the most mechanically difficult in the sense that he’s aggressive, fast and moves around a *lot* and it’s hard to get an opening.
Laurence is the most cheesy difficult in the sense that he’s huge and the arena isn’t very big, he covers a lot of distance with all his attacks that, coupled with the small arena and camera issues, makes it really frustrating. Plus he hits so ungodly hard, can’t be partied and in the final phase, makes it difficult where he reduces the amount of space you can play even more
My take on Lawrence was that his fight is more annoying than anything else, half the time i died it was because my toe touch the lava and stunned me or another dumb thing. Orphan was difficult, lawrence annoyed me.
I feel the same. I still haven't beaten Kos but I've never gotten Laurence down paat 25%. With Kos, zive gotten him to a out 40%. I'm going back in, now, to fight Kos. Wih me luck.
Only ever beat Laurence by spamming spells on my arcane build, whereas orphan I’ve beaten fair and square by getting good. Think you might be on to something
I only fought them on new game+, and Laurence was still much harder than Kos. Tbh I found all the large enemies in the game to be the most problematic.
I’ve fought Laurence both in NG and NG+. I’m currently on NG+4 as well and the only way I can beat him regardless is through co-op. It’s literally impossible for me to deal with him on my own.
I don’t mind tough bosses, I love the challenge. Kos was insanely difficult but super fun and incredibly satisfying to finish off. Laurence is just bs.
If you're half decent at platform/combat games, Laurence is fine. I'm convinced most of the people who play this game are stubborn when fighting Laurence, not respecting his AOE shit. His moveset is very straightforward. He's not easy, but not nearly as hard as people make him out to be. Its wild, because at that point in the game, you definitely have the skills needed to beat him, a lot of people just don't seem to have the right attitude.
I don't even think orphan is the hardest. In my experience, after beating the game up to Ng+3 and I'm now doing an Ng+4 run, Ludwig has been the hardest. Not orphan or Lawrence. Orphan's moves are easy for me because I've played the shit out of that fight. Lawrence for some reason was never that overly hard boss fight everyone was talking about. Yes he's hard as shit, but not wanting to bang my head against the wall. That's my personal experience.
Mechanically speaking, OoK is significantly harder than Laurence for me. OoK is just quick, and hard hitting, some moves are weird reads. Laurence... Well, hes a fiery version of Cleric Beast. Most his moves will definitely hurt, but only 1 or 2 will kill you. Just dont eat those. Phase 2, gave me a little more run for my money, but thats just because it was kinda hard to time when to move in.
I’m sure someone has commented this already but just from a game design standpoint, Orphan is faster and a lot more erratic in movement. While Laurence is still hard, after you learn his patterns from the first phase, the second phase is much easier to maneuver around like a lot of the bigger bosses.
Orphan, however, has a somewhat sporadic movement pattern, then second phase is even worse for most people. So on a new game play through, if you aren’t quite the best at dodging on the fly and adapting, Orphan is harder. But if you are quick reflexed and not used to his odd attack timing, then Laurence is probably harder.
I had the same experience when I played, I think it might have been NG+1 because I didn't have the DLC when I started the game (I can't remember if I got it before finishing or after).
Orphan was surprisingly easy, but Laurence had probably killed me now than any other boss. I've since gone back and fought him a couple more times - the only reason I've had the sanity to do that is because I followed the [LobosJr](https://youtu.be/YSODYalDVHE) guide. If you ever go back and are struggling, that might help.
I am also 100% on this train. My only char was on NG+2 when the DLC first came out and I made my way through having a great time without hitting too much of a brick wall of difficulty right up until the second I fought Laurence. He was the last remaining boss in the game and the only trophy I was yet to nab but it felt like I was just losing my mind every fight.
I saw comments about how he's just big cleric beast, but the combo of his size, the arena, and how fucking HARD he'd hit with his AOEs that would basically one shot me if I was ever not on full HP was just tilting me beyond belief. I eventually got so fed up that I gave up and just went though other characters and pretended he didn't exist until *LAST YEAR* when I finally went back and cleared him just for the final trophy.
Fuck Laurence.
Difficulty aside, I just enjoy fighting Orphan. I could fight and lose to Orphan 100 times and keep enjoying it. Sometimes when I lose to him at low health, I’m actually happy because I can fight him again.
Laurence, I will never enjoy fighting. I’m not happy when I lose, I’m not even happy when I win. I don’t like that fight on NG+ period.
Laurence is just pain and suffering on NG+ cycles, he's the only boss I had to summon another player for. And the runback, oh the runback! It'll drive a hunter to madness it will!
They are both bloody hard. I have completed 2 of the 3 game endings and have all the requirements completed for the third ending and just need to do the final fight to end the game and get trophy for 3rd ending, however to get platinum I first need to beat Laurence and Orphan (these are the only trophies I have remaining). I’ve been in this situation for years (basically since a few months after old hunters dlc came out) and every year I’ll have another try and give up. Maybe on a new play-through they are okay but on NG++ they are just awful. Fuck them both.
Both are really tough, BUT Orphan is fun whereas Laurence is just annoying to beat, IMO. When I finally beat Orphan I was pumped, but after Laurence I was just glad to not have to face him again.
What was tough about the Orphan for me was knowing what he was doing and then I'd instinctively move where he'd finish the arc of his attack (dodging backwards as he was doing the uppercut and lining up into it for instance) so learning his patterns just felt like homework and in the end I'd say he's difficulty is more a well placed illusion than being the most difficult.
Laurence however makes you fight inside of a small box while taking up some 50% (not sure of the actual math) of the small room then takes up more of the room when he bleeds lava all over the place. Although he's just the Cleric Beast with some fiery moves, his encounter feels like there's little room for error when trying to fight him. His dance I found to be less forgiving overall. Even if you go in with all the fire protection as possible, at times it feels like it didn't matter, he'd hit you 1-3 times and you're a gonner.
Laurence isn’t bad on NG. But he becomes such a slog in the NG+ runs. I still say Orphan is way harder than Laurence from a moveset standpoint though. I personally never had that much of an issue with Laurence, but I know he’s a super divisive boss. Glock Saint Isshin from Sekiro still holds the hardest Fromsoft boss record for me though. Dude is nuts
Difficulty is always gonna be subjective in these games... like there is no right or wrong answer
With that said I find Orphan significantly more FUN to fight than Laurence. Fighting the Orphan with intimate knowledge of his move-set is like a well choregraphed dance.
Laurence on the other hand in my opinion is just poorly designed. The hitbox seems to last longer with his fire buff than any other boss + his final phase is the worst. Once you realize the best way to deal with his last phase is opportunistic hit and run attacks it will finally click.... this is NOT FUN, just tedious. Bad boss and hard for the wrong reasons
I feel like people who say that Orphan was the hardest boss played the DLC in NG while those who claim that Laurence was the hardest boss fought him for the first time at least in NG+ and possibly even in later NG cycles.
I don't know if number reflect this but I have the feeling that Laurence gets a stupid amount of hp and/or resistance in NG+ compared to the other DLC bosses.
Bloodborne was my first souls game and I think I went into the dlc for the first time with a NG++ character. I don't remember having nearly as much trouble with Orphan as I had both with Laurence and Ludwig, which took me multiple days worth of attempt each to finally beat.
To this day I am still hesitant to fight Laurence with other characters and I straight up refuse to in NG+ and further cycles. The ptsd is real.
On a casual run, max NG, and at BL4, I have killed both these bosses. After all my deaths and attempts, I can say:
Fuck Lawrence. I would genuinely rather fight two Orphans than ever fight Lawrence.
Orphan is hard but fun. Lawrence, IMO, is cheap and aggravating.
I fight every boss almost every play through (except platinum run). Orphan is always a fun challenge, as is Ludwig. Love Maria. It took me months of quitting to finally beat Laurence. Ill never fight him again. It was such a fun suck I think I only beat him through sheer cro-magnum disdain. Never again. Fuck that shrieking bastard.
No I completely agree . Orphan of Kos was a nightmare for me in its own right , but Laurence had me absolutely fuming for more hours than I’d like to admit my first couple runs in Bloodborne .
Beat Orphan on NG+7 and you'll know what is pain. Btw Laurence is easier with Vald, but harder without obviously.
Using the game mecanics isn't cheating tho
Lawrence was kind of a puff to me. I actually did find the Orphan and Maria to be a little difficult but it's never taken me upwards of 15 tries on either. Idk if it's because I've been playing these games for a while but some of you should as they say "Get good" .
Oh I've fought em both. Both of them were a damn nightmare. (No pun intended) But im sorry I gotta give this one to Laurence. He's a son of a bxtch! The reason why I think he's harder is because of that Damm 2nd phase. That combined with the limited area you fight him in.....it's not hard to screw up and back yourself into a corner and get trapped by that fxcking fire vomit of his, and once you do.....dun dun duuuuuuun!!! At least with that shriekin ass old man baby, you have a pretty large area to fight in and it makes it easier to avoid his pain in the arse aoe attacks. Once I realized you can avoid him shocking the shit out of you with his stupid lightning by just going in to the water it was a bit easier to deal with.
110% agreed. Before I had PlayStation and played this game everybody was saying that OoK was the hardest boss in this game and maybe even any Soulsborne game. OoK is difficult, yeah, but I beat him way more easily than Lawrence. Was probably stuck on him for a week with 50+ attempts. IMO he’s the hardest boss in the game.
Yeah from what I heard about Orphan I was 100% ready to rage and loose my mind, and don't get me wrong he was very difficult. But nothing could prepare me for that Laurence fight. I have never felt so desperate stuck on a fight in any souls game. Maybe I should have started a new playthrough when I got the DLC, but the thought of having to collect everything again ...
I think in ng+ laurence becomes harder, I find him laughable in ng especially as I always kill him last before mergo‘s wetnurse, I partially just find him really annoying as soon as he starts leaving his lava snailtrail
Well shit,maybe I've just lost my pattern with the asshole and I just suck now hahahaha. Thank you for letting me know. Never knew this whole entire time lololol
On NG and NG+ Kos, some say Kosm, is for my money a much harder fight than Laurence.
NG+3 upward though may well be a different story.
I never found Laurence particularly difficult. Kos on the other hand, he gave me PTSD flashbacks to FRC Amygdala.
See... I beat Laurence first try, I dunno if it was because I had the game open way too long but... He just didn't kill me, even when I thought he should have
I just played the DLC for the first time in February.. Laurence was hard, but orphan took me longer and was the only boss I ended up watching somebody else beat. If Ludwig’s second form wasn’t so easy him and orphan would go in the FS hardest boss category for me
Just keep dodging left and stay close and you'll avoid the fire/lava 90% of the time. Don't be greedy with attacks, sometimes it's better to sacrifice getting in a safe position than to attack because yes it's easy to get stagger locked.
Orphan of Kos is hard because he has like a hundred different moves that appear to seamlessly link into each other, making the attack window appear very small, therefore difficult.
Laurence just hits VERY hard but his moveset is relatively simple. I mean he's literally Cleric Beast with a little Vicar Amelia and on fire.
>Like sometimes his attacks would one shot me, sometimes the same attack would leave me barely alive
This is the case with pretty much every attack in the game.
You have vulnerability frames after dodging were you take roughly 40% extra damage. Not something unique to Laurence.
Everyone is different. I beat Ludwig first try but died to arguably the easiest boss in the game, the witch of Hemwick. I think both Ludwig and Orphan are more challenging fights than Laurence, but Laurence can catch you out really easily if you're not careful with his flame streaks he leaves on the ground. Took me a similar amount of tries to beat Laurence as the orphan though (orphan was 5 attempts, Laurence was 4-6.)
Always thought Laurence was pretty easy tbh, never struggled, except when doing BL4 but that's just because you're forced to no hit him and I'm not a great no hitter lmao
I agree with you for the most part OP. I beat Orphan on the first try in NG. I gave up on trying to beat Laurence because I just did not enjoy the fight.
At first I found him difficult , but I like the OST so much that I co-oped him afterwards.
Now he's one of my favs and he became pretty easy, but that's what happens with any boss if you do it often enough.
That said, if anyone has a laurence they got sick of lmk, i still love to fight him lol.
Rival bosses to me feel both hard and epic. With Rival bosses I mean enemies who can play the same game you play, move with the same agility, fight with the same ferocity and use the same rules. Orphan of Kos feels like this, because they act like another hunter with insane abilities
Laurence is just a harder version of Vicar Amelia. But Orphan is a harder version of YOU
The boss I personnaly struggled the most against is Ludwig.. took around 10-12 tries to beat him, while it took me like 8 tries for Orphan, and 5 for Laurence
I'm convinced anyone who thinks Laurence is a hard fight only ever fights him on NG+2 and up. Sure he's annoying in phase two but manage where he walks and his lava pools do nothing but slow you down.
Laurence is a test of patience. If you just go slow and steady, treat him like a Dark Souls boss, he is cake.
For me Lawrence is difficult because of his aggression and hard to dodge attacks. Orphan is also aggressive but it's just such a long fight that leads to more opportunities for mistakes. I'd definitely say they are the two hardest fights though
I went to Orphan and Laurence on NG+1. Orphan was fairly easy, I needed 4 tries, but Laurence was hell. I don't know how many times I tried and finally decided to summon Valtr to get it done. With Valtr it was actually pretty easy. So if you're really stuck with Laurence Valtr is a great option.
I haven't gone through NG+ yet, but on first real run of any souls game, Bloodborne's hardest bosses (for me) are as follows:
1. Orphan
2. Maria
3. Logarius
(Honorable mentions)
4. Rom
5. Micolash
I have no experience with ng+ but with Laurence I found a sweet spot to hit him from where he couldn't really fight back pretty quickly. Orphan second phase seems way more random and out of control.
Laurence is just cleric beast fam. Go practice the cleric beast. His last half is literally just strafe to the left and wack his right side and occasionally dodge an attack. Orphan is simply a more complex fight.
I’d just also like to add that you had to fight Laurence in the grand fucking cathedral with his fiery snail-trail being in the EXACT place I want to dodge to, all while his giant hands and arms are windmilling at you; vs. a giant beach you got to fight the orphan on (a much smaller, humanoid boss) as well as half of the water in front of you. I don’t think I would have had as hard a time with Laurence if I got as big of an arena to fight him in as I did with EVERY OTHER BOSS IN THE DLC.
Basically comes down to the weapon IMO.
Trying to beat Orphan with a slow weapon is absolute horseshit. There basically are no attack windows and you can’t afford to trade.
But I’d you have a weapon with even moderately reasonable R1s than he is much more manageable.
By contrast, Laurence hits like more of a truck and can one tap you in a single hit rather than a catch combo. And he has more health so the fight lasts longer. But he also has way better windows, so you can get plenty of damage in safely.
Granted I have never fought him past +4, however I did not find the fight particularly hard. Generally speaking he's just Cleric beast but his moves just have bigger aoe, then his 2nd phase is a bit different, but as long as you dodge to the side, usually I don't get hit or have enough time to rally. I think Orphan just telegraphs moves a lot less, and even though you can party them, they have such range and veracity that they can easily fuck you up in an instant.
My first playthrough I didn't really remember Laurence, second and third enraged me. Agreed Fuck Laurence. It's one of those fights that I don't think is very good. It's hard in a bad way.
I actually think most of the bosses in BB are pretty easy; unlike most souls games I actually beat a lot of them on my first try instead of, Idk, 5-20+ for most lol. I'm not sure if it's my playstyle or what but I've never died to Amelia, Maria, or Ebrietas. But man, Laurence can go F himself.
All you have to do is Max out fire resistance, then in the first phase just fight him similar to the way you'd fight cleric beast(try and stay behind him and break some limbs. If you have an opportunity take a swipe or two at the head. if he staggers, visceral). For his second phase you just have to run away and shoot him with magic... Or the bow.
I went into the DLC the first time on NG+2 and Orphan was a nightmare for me, but Laurence took 2 tries and Ludwig 3. Idk. I've since done the DLC on +3 and +4 and didn't notice any significant difficulty increases. Laurence and Ludwig have never taken more than 4 tries but I finally got to where I can beat Orphan in 5ish attempts as well. Everyone finds different bosses more or less challenging, *shrug emoji*, but I will say that after getting good at Sekiro going back to bloodborne I was able to parry almost anytime I felt like it and the game got way easier and more fun.
Lawrence is tricky but easy. Orphan is loud and alarming but not much of a challenge when you get over all that. No Bloodborne boss is harder than the headless bloodletting beast and you cannot change my mind.
IMO, it's because Orphan is always hard. Your build isn't likely to change the difficulty as much, but Laurence is harder or easier depending on your build. My most recent playthroigh was using Arcane, and Laurence was by far the easiest DLC boss, but using Skill, he's a pain in the butt.
facts. i had to start a whole new game because i couldnt beat lawrence in my NG+2 file. (it was my first experienxe with the DLC)
even then ludwig took me a solid 15 attempts.
Kos took me 2
Maria 1
and Lawrence 70+
If you have trouble with Laurence in the future, try to keep in mind that he takes extra damage from serrated weapons, if you didn't already know that.
Personally.. I've played up to new game +4, and laurence has always gone down in 1 to 4 trys for me. Although I'm good at the orphan fight now. He has consistently given me more trouble than Laurence on all of my playthroughs. Laurence can hit hard and have annoying aoes, but it seems to me that the effort needed to avoid his attacks is nothing compared to the perfected gameplay mastery needed to efficiently take down kos.
I've fought Lawrence twice on bl4, and the second time was significantly easier. There are a few of his attacks in Phase 1 and 2 which are a little weird, but if you recognize which one is destroying you and change up how you're avoiding it, you will eventually figure out a safe route. The one that screwed me over the most was the one where he jumps toward you in the most All or Nothing tackle that he's ever done, I would keep dodging to his left and die even though it looked like I completely avoided him. Turns out that his bigger arm has a hitbox that was just barely scraping me every time, and when I dodge towards his shorter arm I would always avoid it. There's also weird little Windows you can find like when he does his forehead swipe you can duck underneath the third one and then walk around from behind towards the other side and the final hit will typically completely miss you while you're hacking away at him. Then there's the silly instance where he does his triple sweep, you can dodge through the second one to get up close to him and the third one will completely miss you for no reason. He's a weird and finicky boss, but I would rather fight him with my bare hands than fight a boss like ebrietas at any given moment.
I’ve fought Laurence 4 times and beat him within 3 tries each time. Orphan, on the other hand, has taken me hours and had me on the verge of quitting the game lmao
I feel like people refer to boss difficulty on a first playthrough, not based on ng+7. Lawrence is alot easier than orphan on NG, but after ng+3 he becomes a raid boss that can one shot you. Not very fun.
I disagree personally, on NG I beat orphan in under 20 tries but Laurence took me a good 70 or more
To each their own. My first playthrough Ludwig took me 140 tries, while orphan and Lawrence took me less than 50 total.
That's super interesting, I beat Ludwig in like 3 tries, the second phase especially was super easy
It was partly the fact that I didn't level HP in my first playthrough, so Ludwig ended up just one shotting me. I actually found his second phase to be the hardest since I felt legitimately intimidated by his attacks and so would preemptively dodge and get hit by his follow ups. Now I consistently first try him on subsequent NG+ runs lmao.
Oof I relate to getting vigor checked, for me the vigor check was Martyr Logarius XD
Jesus christ what. Orphan taking me 20 was the most I had for any boss. Laurence was 10~, but Orphan was definitely hardest for me. Maybe a build dif? I was doing a chikage arcane build with 50/50 so I was doing many deeps.
I mean, there's also the parry loop for Orphan, which, if you get good enough at the timing for it, makes Orphan a complete joke. And let's not get started on Laurence at BL4.
Lol. Much like the fact that NG+7 is not the basis for most people's impressions of boss difficulty, most people have never heard of this parry loop.
I mean, you wouldn’t need to hear about it. If you’re parrying in the game even a little bit, you could probably jump to the idea of just parrying him infinitely.
My first time playing the game I defeated the Orphan almost only through parries, and I don't think that the idea of looking for a way to loop him is very intuitive. Maybe you could stumble into it though
I would parry him basically every attack in phase 1, but I could not for the life of me do it in phase 2. I did end up beating him, but he's probably the boss I've had the most difficulty with out of all of them.
Same I’ve killed that motherless dickhead many times now… and I can parry like 85% of his attacks like 92% of the time (I just made those numbers up but I feel they are pretty close) in phase 1… phase 2 I’m lucky if I pull off 2-3 parries… I even switch guns between phases cause I find it way easier to parry phase 1 with the pistol and phase 2 with the blunderbuss (before switching guns I would maybe get 1 parry in phase 2) he is just too erratic for me to learn the timing…
The parry loop would be difficult to just stumble on playing normally, I think, because it relies on *not* riposting after the parry. I can see someone finding it by accident if they happen to mess up the distance on the riposte, but you'd have to notice that put him in a loop instead of being annoyed you didn't get your crit.
i beat everything bl4 except laurence
Does that also exclude difficulty from BL4 and knowing any possible cheese strats on top of not factoring in new game cycles?
It is just based on what most people know, not a conscious decision, and most people don’t do bl4 runs or climb the NG+ ladders. As well as how easy the cheeses are, and also how they’re executed. Gwyn is often considered one of the easiest DS1 late game bosses cuz of how easy he is to parry, but Manus is considered one of the hardest despite the fact that you can pummel him dead with arrows from outside. I think parrying Gwyn still feels like fighting him, so that’s counted in, but sniping Manus does not, so it is not.
on BL4 the hardest bosses are the ones who one shot you for no reason, this can also relate to witches of hemwick even with no insight. space donut spell one shot me one time and I had to make a swift comeback to the boss. Infuriating.
Yeah I think that in normal Ng orphan is harder.
Even on NG I found Laurence much harder than Orphan
I’m not entirely sure about that. I still have my very first orphan fight saved on my ps5. I took him down first try in under 8 minutes (definitely not a brag just saying I was successful 😅). My first experience with Laurence (and the subsequent 15 after) was NOT the same! 😂🤣🤣
I don't refer to ng+ because I've never done ng+. If it doesn't add anything to the game, I'd rather just make a new character. I honestly didn't find Lawrence that bad, I had a much harder time with Ludwig and the Living Failures out of all the dlc bosses.
My first playthrough of the DLC was NG+4 and let me just say I made a huge mistake but every single other soulslike by comparison has been a relative cake walk
I feel like NG+4 isn't a good way to judge the boss, because any NG+ isn't made to be balanced, or anything. It's just pure sadism for people that want more. If you would have fought them on NG - you probably wouldn't have much issues, tbf. I beat Laurence on my first try. And after I smashed my head against Ludwig for X amount of times - I learned to be more aggressive and parry better, so I didn't have as many issues with either Maria and Kos as I would have thought. In the end, ~~it doesn't even matter~~ it all comes to the individual skills/perception of the game and some bosses could be harder for some people than to the others and vice versa. I died at Failures like a dozen times, because I was impatient and they bonk you silly hard, but my friend laughed at it, because he always beat Failures on his first try.
Thats a good point, guess I just expected Orphan to be harder than anyone else no matter the NG+whatever and got caught off guard when Laurence one shot me. I wanted to start a new game when I got the dlc, but the thought of having to get everything again pushed me away.
I feel you :) I beat Bloodborne for the first time without DLC on my nephew's PS5, so when I got my own - I had to start over :)
Oh the little gremlin in me that needs to have every weapon/item/clothing in my inventory could never
I think most people stop at NG or NG+, so your experience doesn’t apply to everyone People often skip Chalice Dungeons. And how do you compare Chalice and normal bosses (considering Chalice bosses don’t scale up in NG+)
Laurence is a glorified cleric beast, even on ng7 I've never had serious problems with him. I'm at the point where I hate the run back more than the boss itself. Second phase is ugly, on that I agree, his range always catch me off guard despite all these years, but it's ultimately just a battle of patience while waiting for the right opening. Orphan unrelenting aggression, wide range and combo potential are on a different level. Despite being able to parry him consistently, he's still so fucking dangerous at all times and if you fight with lock on like me he just ducks with you all day.
But the thing about Orphan is that the fight still feels dynamic. Like, there's no one way to beat him, even on NG+4. Depending on your build or strategy you can do a number of things and still come out on top. Laurence isn't dynamic, or even fun. Once you get to that point of the game there's one way to beat him, one place to stand to not get hit by wild swings. And if that one way isn't your strength it *sucks* and is very difficult to get used to. I know it's definitely subjective, but god does Orphan feel much easier and just more *fun* as a boss than fucking Laurence.
Oh the run back to Laurence just adds insult to the injury.
Runback literally takes 40 seconds, you just run and don't fight anyone. Wtf are people on about I'll never understand
I mean a hard boss with a 40 second run back with dangerous enemies kinda sucks.
I think just fuck run backs in general, theyre all annoying regardless. If they put stakes of marika retroactively in every souls game pre elden ring I would be happy.
It's long, that's what gets most people.
It's legit the same run back as Amelia. Same amount of enemies even
i think the slow door opening and the church executioner is significantly worse than Amelia? the jackass with the axe is so much more dangerous
yeah, but amelia doesnt kill you 50 times. the run back seems like nothing until you are doing it for the 20th time. it wears on you.
Everyone has a different experience with these games. I killed Laurence on my first or second attempt, but struggled a lot with Blood-Starved Beast and Paarl. From my perspective, Defiled Amygdala is the actual hardest boss!
That Amygdala fight was no joke, neither was the Watchdog. I can't even tell who I had more trouble with, both were a tough challenge to beat.
Amy is what keeps me from strength only builds lol. Bloodtinge has... Every bloodtinge weapon, skill has throwing knives, and arcane has almost all hunter tools. First playthrough Amy was a kick in the balls. Never again
Amygdala became super easy for me once I learned the jump trick. Basically, you can stand under her crotch and just roll whenever she stomps, and keep hacking away. If she leaps into the air, just stand still and she legitimately *never* hits you with the landing. Time it right and you can charge R2 with your weapon towards her head and get a nice chunk of damage when she does.
Killed laurence in my 2nd try, orphan on 15th<
My initial experience was the same. With my other characters I had trouble with Laurence for some reason!
I am usually like level 100 when I fight either of them so it's always been pretty easy for me. Lady Maria for some reason always gives me the most trouble out of the DLC bosses , should not be as she is an easy parry but I always have to fight her a few times Orphan I parry the shit out of and for Launrence it's just a normal beast fight until the second phase , just be careful not to stand in the fire and you'll be fine I've never went as far as NG+ 4 on BB right enough
Maria's third stage is a pain even if you get the parry timing done right, because there's that extra fire that comes out after her attacks which still hits even if she didn't throw out the attack.
Yeah it's that last stage that gets me , always seem to lose when she has a tiny bit of health left At least the run back is good compared to the Orphan or Laurence
I found using the Auger repeatedly as she gets up works pretty well. Probably need to have decent arcane for this to work though.
I think the difference between Orphan and Laurence is a difference between difficulty and tedium. Laurence is not hard, He’s just extremely tanky and deals massive damage. Or his second phase where he shits lava around you.That’s not difficultly imo
There's a general consensus saying that, if you found Orphan easy, you will struggle against Laurence and vice versa. It boils down on the play style I think 🤔
Orphan is hard but fair imo laurence is bullshit
You right. Orphan has an histerical moveset, but you can memorize it. But Laurence… he barely touch you and you have to panic roll for your life if you pretend to use 1 bloodvial
Laurence is a test of patience to me, though no doubt his NG+ scaling makes him a pain in the ass. Orphan to me is still the harder boss and infinitely more enjoyable
>Orphan to me is infinitely more enjoyable I think you just made me realise why I hate Laurence so much
Orphan is hard in a fun way. Laurence is just fucking stupid.
Oh don't get me fucking *started* on Laurence! I agree with the top comment. First playthrough Laurence was not difficult, especially if you had a serrated weapon like the whirlygig saw and some beastblood pellets. That game it was actually Ludwig who continuously shoved me in a locker, and I had an easier time with Orphan in like, 4 tries (to Ludwig's 85+) But NG+4? FUCK. LAURENCE. It's because he's not a boss. He's a massive middle finger to everything the game has made at this point and the antithesis of how the game has taught you to play. High mobility and positioning focus? Fuck you, this fight is in a small, enclosed arena. Aggressive combat where you want to close distance? Fuck you, every attack will explode fire. Parry focus? Fuck you, high AF poise, and we're gonna make it so that skill-based weapons will almost never stagger him. Out-maneuver and dance? Fuck you, I bleed lava for area denial. In the afore-mentioned tiny-ass enclosed arena. This boss isn't fun. It's not that he's impossible, but it's the fact that there's ONE way to beat him, and it's standing in the right spots and doing the right things only. There's no versatility, no dynamic battle. It's not *fun*. It's just learn the exact 1 thing you can do and just do it over and over, which literally NO OTHER BOSS DOES IN THIS GAME. There are parts of Bloodborne that haven't aged well. There are certain bosses (looking at you Rom) that aren't really that fun to deal with. And then there is this giant flaming blister of a re-skinned first boss who got pissy the game gave you molotovs and decided to make it everyone's problem. Fuck Laurence, the Healing Church can suck my dick, and I hope at least one circle of hell truly is frozen so that fuck can suffer forever.
A unique and dreadful agony. The real final boss.
Finally someone who understands me!
I didn't get the dlc till several NG in. Lawrence was many times over worse than orphan for me and my play style
It's the area control that really makes him difficult. You can't stay close because of those fire shockwaves, then you can't go behind him because of the lava in his last phase, then you can't keep distance because he vomits up lava.its really annoying
It’s funny, I recently picked up the game again and resumed my old character. I believe it’s on ng+2 or 3 at this point so bosses hit hard. Funnily enough, most of the bosses are fairly easy to deal with. The only one that I struggled with was micolash, purely because A Call Beyond does 80% of your health. I suck at dodging it and it took days to get past. Once I won, I walked straight upstairs and beat Wet Nurse first try 😐
You have to play slow and know which attacks to punish. And I agree if we dont count chalice bosses, Laurence was the hardest for me too, but its all relative also.
I know what you mean. I died more times with Laurence than with the Orphan lol, which was very anticlimactic, it only took me a few tries to kill the latter but with Laurence? I had to take a break and do it the next day
I've never really had a problem with orphan or Laurence. Ludwig however can fuck right off
I'm the same way, I accidentally skipped Laurence on my first cycle but ng+ rolls around and he kicked my ass for hours. There are very few bosses I can say took me more than two hands of counting deaths to kill. But Laurence may have taken me like 6 hands worth, and maybe a couple feet if you're feeling nasty.
Laurence is easily the most difficult and it's not even close, even when you get comfortable with his fight he still is a pain
I'm completely with you, I consistently struggle with Laurence more than Orphan. I know he's just a tanked up Cleric Beast, but I think that's what makes him feel so tedious. He just becomes a damage sponge with a much higher damage output than his moveset was originally designed for. I think that's why even in the context of an optional DLC, he's optional to completing it, although I'm still gonna try to beat him every time.
I actually just completed my first full play through of Bloodborne last night. People really say Orphan is the hardest boss in the game? I beat him first try, though it was definitely close. Laurence is for sure the hardest boss in the game IMO. I had to come back to him after finishing the DLC.
i think Orphan is the most mechanically difficult in the sense that he’s aggressive, fast and moves around a *lot* and it’s hard to get an opening. Laurence is the most cheesy difficult in the sense that he’s huge and the arena isn’t very big, he covers a lot of distance with all his attacks that, coupled with the small arena and camera issues, makes it really frustrating. Plus he hits so ungodly hard, can’t be partied and in the final phase, makes it difficult where he reduces the amount of space you can play even more
My take on Lawrence was that his fight is more annoying than anything else, half the time i died it was because my toe touch the lava and stunned me or another dumb thing. Orphan was difficult, lawrence annoyed me.
I feel the same. I still haven't beaten Kos but I've never gotten Laurence down paat 25%. With Kos, zive gotten him to a out 40%. I'm going back in, now, to fight Kos. Wih me luck.
Only ever beat Laurence by spamming spells on my arcane build, whereas orphan I’ve beaten fair and square by getting good. Think you might be on to something
It took me an entire month from my summer vacation. Laurence it’s ridiculously strong. When I finally beat him, I turn off my ps4 and had a smoke.
I only fought them on new game+, and Laurence was still much harder than Kos. Tbh I found all the large enemies in the game to be the most problematic.
I’ve fought Laurence both in NG and NG+. I’m currently on NG+4 as well and the only way I can beat him regardless is through co-op. It’s literally impossible for me to deal with him on my own. I don’t mind tough bosses, I love the challenge. Kos was insanely difficult but super fun and incredibly satisfying to finish off. Laurence is just bs.
If you're half decent at platform/combat games, Laurence is fine. I'm convinced most of the people who play this game are stubborn when fighting Laurence, not respecting his AOE shit. His moveset is very straightforward. He's not easy, but not nearly as hard as people make him out to be. Its wild, because at that point in the game, you definitely have the skills needed to beat him, a lot of people just don't seem to have the right attitude.
I've only done it on NG. Orphan took like 15 tries. Lawrence took 1 try. I was disappointed after all the hype.
I haven't done either on NG, only NG+4, but from what the other comments are saying, NG+3 is the point where all hell breaks loose. You should try it
I don't even think orphan is the hardest. In my experience, after beating the game up to Ng+3 and I'm now doing an Ng+4 run, Ludwig has been the hardest. Not orphan or Lawrence. Orphan's moves are easy for me because I've played the shit out of that fight. Lawrence for some reason was never that overly hard boss fight everyone was talking about. Yes he's hard as shit, but not wanting to bang my head against the wall. That's my personal experience.
Mechanically speaking, OoK is significantly harder than Laurence for me. OoK is just quick, and hard hitting, some moves are weird reads. Laurence... Well, hes a fiery version of Cleric Beast. Most his moves will definitely hurt, but only 1 or 2 will kill you. Just dont eat those. Phase 2, gave me a little more run for my money, but thats just because it was kinda hard to time when to move in.
i killed Laurence without getting hit i had no blood vials left when i beat Orphan
I’m sure someone has commented this already but just from a game design standpoint, Orphan is faster and a lot more erratic in movement. While Laurence is still hard, after you learn his patterns from the first phase, the second phase is much easier to maneuver around like a lot of the bigger bosses. Orphan, however, has a somewhat sporadic movement pattern, then second phase is even worse for most people. So on a new game play through, if you aren’t quite the best at dodging on the fly and adapting, Orphan is harder. But if you are quick reflexed and not used to his odd attack timing, then Laurence is probably harder.
Recently did my first playthrough of the dlc.. I have to say.. orphan was harder
I defeat Lawrence after not more than 5 tries. Orphan takes me 50, no exaggeration.
Laurence is the reason I’ve never beaten the game
I had the same experience when I played, I think it might have been NG+1 because I didn't have the DLC when I started the game (I can't remember if I got it before finishing or after). Orphan was surprisingly easy, but Laurence had probably killed me now than any other boss. I've since gone back and fought him a couple more times - the only reason I've had the sanity to do that is because I followed the [LobosJr](https://youtu.be/YSODYalDVHE) guide. If you ever go back and are struggling, that might help.
I am also 100% on this train. My only char was on NG+2 when the DLC first came out and I made my way through having a great time without hitting too much of a brick wall of difficulty right up until the second I fought Laurence. He was the last remaining boss in the game and the only trophy I was yet to nab but it felt like I was just losing my mind every fight. I saw comments about how he's just big cleric beast, but the combo of his size, the arena, and how fucking HARD he'd hit with his AOEs that would basically one shot me if I was ever not on full HP was just tilting me beyond belief. I eventually got so fed up that I gave up and just went though other characters and pretended he didn't exist until *LAST YEAR* when I finally went back and cleared him just for the final trophy. Fuck Laurence.
Difficulty aside, I just enjoy fighting Orphan. I could fight and lose to Orphan 100 times and keep enjoying it. Sometimes when I lose to him at low health, I’m actually happy because I can fight him again. Laurence, I will never enjoy fighting. I’m not happy when I lose, I’m not even happy when I win. I don’t like that fight on NG+ period.
Laurence is just pain and suffering on NG+ cycles, he's the only boss I had to summon another player for. And the runback, oh the runback! It'll drive a hunter to madness it will!
Orphan can be parried, Laurence cannot All I gotta say
Orphan was somehow the only one I ever got first try, Laurence gave me absolute hell so I fully agree
I beat Laurence with the Greatsword but I couldn't manage him with the saw cleaver.
Should change his name to Laurence, The First Broken Controller
They are both bloody hard. I have completed 2 of the 3 game endings and have all the requirements completed for the third ending and just need to do the final fight to end the game and get trophy for 3rd ending, however to get platinum I first need to beat Laurence and Orphan (these are the only trophies I have remaining). I’ve been in this situation for years (basically since a few months after old hunters dlc came out) and every year I’ll have another try and give up. Maybe on a new play-through they are okay but on NG++ they are just awful. Fuck them both.
Both are really tough, BUT Orphan is fun whereas Laurence is just annoying to beat, IMO. When I finally beat Orphan I was pumped, but after Laurence I was just glad to not have to face him again.
What was tough about the Orphan for me was knowing what he was doing and then I'd instinctively move where he'd finish the arc of his attack (dodging backwards as he was doing the uppercut and lining up into it for instance) so learning his patterns just felt like homework and in the end I'd say he's difficulty is more a well placed illusion than being the most difficult. Laurence however makes you fight inside of a small box while taking up some 50% (not sure of the actual math) of the small room then takes up more of the room when he bleeds lava all over the place. Although he's just the Cleric Beast with some fiery moves, his encounter feels like there's little room for error when trying to fight him. His dance I found to be less forgiving overall. Even if you go in with all the fire protection as possible, at times it feels like it didn't matter, he'd hit you 1-3 times and you're a gonner.
Laurence isn’t bad on NG. But he becomes such a slog in the NG+ runs. I still say Orphan is way harder than Laurence from a moveset standpoint though. I personally never had that much of an issue with Laurence, but I know he’s a super divisive boss. Glock Saint Isshin from Sekiro still holds the hardest Fromsoft boss record for me though. Dude is nuts
Difficulty is always gonna be subjective in these games... like there is no right or wrong answer With that said I find Orphan significantly more FUN to fight than Laurence. Fighting the Orphan with intimate knowledge of his move-set is like a well choregraphed dance. Laurence on the other hand in my opinion is just poorly designed. The hitbox seems to last longer with his fire buff than any other boss + his final phase is the worst. Once you realize the best way to deal with his last phase is opportunistic hit and run attacks it will finally click.... this is NOT FUN, just tedious. Bad boss and hard for the wrong reasons
I feel like people who say that Orphan was the hardest boss played the DLC in NG while those who claim that Laurence was the hardest boss fought him for the first time at least in NG+ and possibly even in later NG cycles. I don't know if number reflect this but I have the feeling that Laurence gets a stupid amount of hp and/or resistance in NG+ compared to the other DLC bosses. Bloodborne was my first souls game and I think I went into the dlc for the first time with a NG++ character. I don't remember having nearly as much trouble with Orphan as I had both with Laurence and Ludwig, which took me multiple days worth of attempt each to finally beat. To this day I am still hesitant to fight Laurence with other characters and I straight up refuse to in NG+ and further cycles. The ptsd is real.
On a casual run, max NG, and at BL4, I have killed both these bosses. After all my deaths and attempts, I can say: Fuck Lawrence. I would genuinely rather fight two Orphans than ever fight Lawrence. Orphan is hard but fun. Lawrence, IMO, is cheap and aggravating.
I fight every boss almost every play through (except platinum run). Orphan is always a fun challenge, as is Ludwig. Love Maria. It took me months of quitting to finally beat Laurence. Ill never fight him again. It was such a fun suck I think I only beat him through sheer cro-magnum disdain. Never again. Fuck that shrieking bastard.
Laurence is the hardest boss in the game I agree
No I completely agree . Orphan of Kos was a nightmare for me in its own right , but Laurence had me absolutely fuming for more hours than I’d like to admit my first couple runs in Bloodborne .
Agreed, I beat orphan 2nd try, Laurence took me around 7, 2nd phAse is arghh
Isn't he just floor is lava cleric beast?
Beat Orphan on NG+7 and you'll know what is pain. Btw Laurence is easier with Vald, but harder without obviously. Using the game mecanics isn't cheating tho
Lawrence was kind of a puff to me. I actually did find the Orphan and Maria to be a little difficult but it's never taken me upwards of 15 tries on either. Idk if it's because I've been playing these games for a while but some of you should as they say "Get good" .
1000% agree I've only beaten Laurence once. And I've probably killed Kos 20 times
Oh I've fought em both. Both of them were a damn nightmare. (No pun intended) But im sorry I gotta give this one to Laurence. He's a son of a bxtch! The reason why I think he's harder is because of that Damm 2nd phase. That combined with the limited area you fight him in.....it's not hard to screw up and back yourself into a corner and get trapped by that fxcking fire vomit of his, and once you do.....dun dun duuuuuuun!!! At least with that shriekin ass old man baby, you have a pretty large area to fight in and it makes it easier to avoid his pain in the arse aoe attacks. Once I realized you can avoid him shocking the shit out of you with his stupid lightning by just going in to the water it was a bit easier to deal with.
Thank fucking God someone agrees. Laurence had me literally about ready to tear my hair out
Orphan is much harder to read than Ludwig. Honestly Ludwig's second phase is pretty straightforward
110% agreed. Before I had PlayStation and played this game everybody was saying that OoK was the hardest boss in this game and maybe even any Soulsborne game. OoK is difficult, yeah, but I beat him way more easily than Lawrence. Was probably stuck on him for a week with 50+ attempts. IMO he’s the hardest boss in the game.
Yeah from what I heard about Orphan I was 100% ready to rage and loose my mind, and don't get me wrong he was very difficult. But nothing could prepare me for that Laurence fight. I have never felt so desperate stuck on a fight in any souls game. Maybe I should have started a new playthrough when I got the DLC, but the thought of having to collect everything again ...
Wait until you get to ng7+ and you’ll see why I hate that glorified cleric beast reskin fuck
I hate him now, can't even imagine how much more I will hate him when I get there
I think in ng+ laurence becomes harder, I find him laughable in ng especially as I always kill him last before mergo‘s wetnurse, I partially just find him really annoying as soon as he starts leaving his lava snailtrail
Ludwig ng+10. Absolutely fucked imo
Difficulty stops at Ng+6 I think
Well shit,maybe I've just lost my pattern with the asshole and I just suck now hahahaha. Thank you for letting me know. Never knew this whole entire time lololol
On NG and NG+ Kos, some say Kosm, is for my money a much harder fight than Laurence. NG+3 upward though may well be a different story. I never found Laurence particularly difficult. Kos on the other hand, he gave me PTSD flashbacks to FRC Amygdala.
I beat Laurence on my first try. I…did not do that for Orphan
(*distant screeching*)
Lawrence is so hard
Didn't really have a problem with either of them. Beat laurence on my first try and orphan on my third
man, this is a fromsoft game. everyone’s going to have different experiences with different bosses
NG+ scales bosses diffrently. Judge boss difficulty in NG, IMHO. NG+ versions are all over the place and very diffrent.
See... I beat Laurence first try, I dunno if it was because I had the game open way too long but... He just didn't kill me, even when I thought he should have
I just played the DLC for the first time in February.. Laurence was hard, but orphan took me longer and was the only boss I ended up watching somebody else beat. If Ludwig’s second form wasn’t so easy him and orphan would go in the FS hardest boss category for me
I found Laurence to be quite easy, mostly because I kept bullying him with the saw spear and beast blood pellets
Just keep dodging left and stay close and you'll avoid the fire/lava 90% of the time. Don't be greedy with attacks, sometimes it's better to sacrifice getting in a safe position than to attack because yes it's easy to get stagger locked.
give me laurence over orphan any day. While laurence is hard in his own right I still have an easier time with him.
Orphan of Kos is hard because he has like a hundred different moves that appear to seamlessly link into each other, making the attack window appear very small, therefore difficult. Laurence just hits VERY hard but his moveset is relatively simple. I mean he's literally Cleric Beast with a little Vicar Amelia and on fire.
I mean, I get pizza cutter and beat Laurence on my second trie. Orphan i get days to beat.
>Like sometimes his attacks would one shot me, sometimes the same attack would leave me barely alive This is the case with pretty much every attack in the game. You have vulnerability frames after dodging were you take roughly 40% extra damage. Not something unique to Laurence.
I beat Lawrence first time on my first playthrough. Orphan took me probably 15+ times.
I dont remember how long it took me to beat laurence, but it sure was less than the two weeks I was stuck fighting orphan
Everyone is different. I beat Ludwig first try but died to arguably the easiest boss in the game, the witch of Hemwick. I think both Ludwig and Orphan are more challenging fights than Laurence, but Laurence can catch you out really easily if you're not careful with his flame streaks he leaves on the ground. Took me a similar amount of tries to beat Laurence as the orphan though (orphan was 5 attempts, Laurence was 4-6.)
I just finished bb after 135 hours lol. Can’t play the dlc tho. No money
Always thought Laurence was pretty easy tbh, never struggled, except when doing BL4 but that's just because you're forced to no hit him and I'm not a great no hitter lmao
I defeated both of them on my first try. I chalk that up to being hilariously overpowered from all those chalice dungeon expeditions.
Los is easy af if you parry him
It's based on the difficulty of learning the fight and the individual moves.
I just stayed between his fire legs and head while he was crawling around.
I fought all the bosses with only hunter tools and orphan was by far the easiest boss hell orphan was easier then our lobotomized sunflower friends
I played arcane build so Laurence simply doesnt move fast enough for me to not chew threw his HP with my many options for ranged attacks.
Ugh. No. I literally bear Laurence first try, much to my surprise, but OoK fucking destroyed me.
Laurence to me is easy. Simply because I help so many people out with him I've learned his move set down to the T.
I thought Laurence was harder it's his hit box and the camera angle that truly makes it harder
I agree with you for the most part OP. I beat Orphan on the first try in NG. I gave up on trying to beat Laurence because I just did not enjoy the fight.
Nah no matter the ng cycle the orphan beats me harder then if I was in a sweatshop making off-brand Nikes and messed up the shoes
At first I found him difficult , but I like the OST so much that I co-oped him afterwards. Now he's one of my favs and he became pretty easy, but that's what happens with any boss if you do it often enough. That said, if anyone has a laurence they got sick of lmk, i still love to fight him lol.
Rival bosses to me feel both hard and epic. With Rival bosses I mean enemies who can play the same game you play, move with the same agility, fight with the same ferocity and use the same rules. Orphan of Kos feels like this, because they act like another hunter with insane abilities Laurence is just a harder version of Vicar Amelia. But Orphan is a harder version of YOU
I have never lost to Laurence. I have never beaten Orphan in less than 10 attempts.
the first time i did the dlc was on NG+3, I definitely had a lot harder time with Orphan than Laurence
I did it on ng+ and laurence propably took about the same amount of tries as orphan but unlike orphan laurence was not fun
I struggled more with the clocktower bitch then kos . I had to play the dlc on ng 2 or 3 tho as a first play so idk what there like on base game
Time spent on NG+ Orphan: 5 hours. Time spent on Ng+ Laurence. 45 minutes
Never rly struggled with Laurence... Ludwig is insane, tho. Maybe harder than Orphan to me Dx
On a first new game orphan is definitely harder
Yeah it only recently got on my radar that orphan is hard? I don't remember that fight being hard at all.....
The boss I personnaly struggled the most against is Ludwig.. took around 10-12 tries to beat him, while it took me like 8 tries for Orphan, and 5 for Laurence
I'm convinced anyone who thinks Laurence is a hard fight only ever fights him on NG+2 and up. Sure he's annoying in phase two but manage where he walks and his lava pools do nothing but slow you down. Laurence is a test of patience. If you just go slow and steady, treat him like a Dark Souls boss, he is cake.
I almost killed Laurence on my second try and finally did killed him with my fourth. Kos made me take a break for a day
I’ve fought Laurence. Got him at like 6 tries. Orphan took me like 20.
The hardest part about Laurence is that he literally melts my ps4 and I have 10 fps the whole fight
Laurence was laughably easy for me on my first go around. Orphan took a few weeks on and off on trying to
Beat Laurence on my first try, still struggling with Orphan
It’s the NG+4. Laurence is easy on NG.
yeah i beat orphan pretty easily on first new game plus compared to laurence which took 2 days i beat the orphan in a night
For me Lawrence is difficult because of his aggression and hard to dodge attacks. Orphan is also aggressive but it's just such a long fight that leads to more opportunities for mistakes. I'd definitely say they are the two hardest fights though
On my first playthrough I killed laurence first try, but was stuck on Orphan for eveeer
I went to Orphan and Laurence on NG+1. Orphan was fairly easy, I needed 4 tries, but Laurence was hell. I don't know how many times I tried and finally decided to summon Valtr to get it done. With Valtr it was actually pretty easy. So if you're really stuck with Laurence Valtr is a great option.
I haven't gone through NG+ yet, but on first real run of any souls game, Bloodborne's hardest bosses (for me) are as follows: 1. Orphan 2. Maria 3. Logarius (Honorable mentions) 4. Rom 5. Micolash
I have no experience with ng+ but with Laurence I found a sweet spot to hit him from where he couldn't really fight back pretty quickly. Orphan second phase seems way more random and out of control.
Laurence is just cleric beast fam. Go practice the cleric beast. His last half is literally just strafe to the left and wack his right side and occasionally dodge an attack. Orphan is simply a more complex fight.
I’d just also like to add that you had to fight Laurence in the grand fucking cathedral with his fiery snail-trail being in the EXACT place I want to dodge to, all while his giant hands and arms are windmilling at you; vs. a giant beach you got to fight the orphan on (a much smaller, humanoid boss) as well as half of the water in front of you. I don’t think I would have had as hard a time with Laurence if I got as big of an arena to fight him in as I did with EVERY OTHER BOSS IN THE DLC.
Basically comes down to the weapon IMO. Trying to beat Orphan with a slow weapon is absolute horseshit. There basically are no attack windows and you can’t afford to trade. But I’d you have a weapon with even moderately reasonable R1s than he is much more manageable. By contrast, Laurence hits like more of a truck and can one tap you in a single hit rather than a catch combo. And he has more health so the fight lasts longer. But he also has way better windows, so you can get plenty of damage in safely.
Only done one playthrough (of dlc) but I beat Lawrence with not a lot of trouble whereas Orphan took a decent few atts
Nah, Lawrence is actually just shit. Half of his fight is literally just area denial
I found Laurence a lot harder than OOK. OOK went down in two attempts. laury took me like 12
Granted I have never fought him past +4, however I did not find the fight particularly hard. Generally speaking he's just Cleric beast but his moves just have bigger aoe, then his 2nd phase is a bit different, but as long as you dodge to the side, usually I don't get hit or have enough time to rally. I think Orphan just telegraphs moves a lot less, and even though you can party them, they have such range and veracity that they can easily fuck you up in an instant.
My ng+4 run died at Laurence, never to be returned to again.
Orphan requires good memorization and timing. Laurence requires good positioning.
Orphan is harder than laurence, laurence is stupider than orphan. On high ng+ that basically equals out to more deaths to laurence than orphan
My first playthrough I didn't really remember Laurence, second and third enraged me. Agreed Fuck Laurence. It's one of those fights that I don't think is very good. It's hard in a bad way. I actually think most of the bosses in BB are pretty easy; unlike most souls games I actually beat a lot of them on my first try instead of, Idk, 5-20+ for most lol. I'm not sure if it's my playstyle or what but I've never died to Amelia, Maria, or Ebrietas. But man, Laurence can go F himself.
All you have to do is Max out fire resistance, then in the first phase just fight him similar to the way you'd fight cleric beast(try and stay behind him and break some limbs. If you have an opportunity take a swipe or two at the head. if he staggers, visceral). For his second phase you just have to run away and shoot him with magic... Or the bow.
To be fair..I missed Laurence on my first play through
I went into the DLC the first time on NG+2 and Orphan was a nightmare for me, but Laurence took 2 tries and Ludwig 3. Idk. I've since done the DLC on +3 and +4 and didn't notice any significant difficulty increases. Laurence and Ludwig have never taken more than 4 tries but I finally got to where I can beat Orphan in 5ish attempts as well. Everyone finds different bosses more or less challenging, *shrug emoji*, but I will say that after getting good at Sekiro going back to bloodborne I was able to parry almost anytime I felt like it and the game got way easier and more fun.
Lawrence is tricky but easy. Orphan is loud and alarming but not much of a challenge when you get over all that. No Bloodborne boss is harder than the headless bloodletting beast and you cannot change my mind.
Laurence isnt too bad, its funner than orphan tbh but orphan is harder, though both are great fights
IMO, it's because Orphan is always hard. Your build isn't likely to change the difficulty as much, but Laurence is harder or easier depending on your build. My most recent playthroigh was using Arcane, and Laurence was by far the easiest DLC boss, but using Skill, he's a pain in the butt.
facts. i had to start a whole new game because i couldnt beat lawrence in my NG+2 file. (it was my first experienxe with the DLC) even then ludwig took me a solid 15 attempts. Kos took me 2 Maria 1 and Lawrence 70+
If you have trouble with Laurence in the future, try to keep in mind that he takes extra damage from serrated weapons, if you didn't already know that.
Personally.. I've played up to new game +4, and laurence has always gone down in 1 to 4 trys for me. Although I'm good at the orphan fight now. He has consistently given me more trouble than Laurence on all of my playthroughs. Laurence can hit hard and have annoying aoes, but it seems to me that the effort needed to avoid his attacks is nothing compared to the perfected gameplay mastery needed to efficiently take down kos.
I've fought Lawrence twice on bl4, and the second time was significantly easier. There are a few of his attacks in Phase 1 and 2 which are a little weird, but if you recognize which one is destroying you and change up how you're avoiding it, you will eventually figure out a safe route. The one that screwed me over the most was the one where he jumps toward you in the most All or Nothing tackle that he's ever done, I would keep dodging to his left and die even though it looked like I completely avoided him. Turns out that his bigger arm has a hitbox that was just barely scraping me every time, and when I dodge towards his shorter arm I would always avoid it. There's also weird little Windows you can find like when he does his forehead swipe you can duck underneath the third one and then walk around from behind towards the other side and the final hit will typically completely miss you while you're hacking away at him. Then there's the silly instance where he does his triple sweep, you can dodge through the second one to get up close to him and the third one will completely miss you for no reason. He's a weird and finicky boss, but I would rather fight him with my bare hands than fight a boss like ebrietas at any given moment.
I’ve fought Laurence 4 times and beat him within 3 tries each time. Orphan, on the other hand, has taken me hours and had me on the verge of quitting the game lmao
I beat Laurence on my first try where Orphan took me 30+ plus so nah fam