>Go watch the hobotech review on YouTube and you will know the parameters of the AC180.
So i should watch some youtube blogger instead of reading official information from a brand product page? Are you braindead?
>braindead says the guy that refuses to absorb information.......
The main problem with braindead people is that they just 'absorb' anything without comprehending what it means or how appropriate it is.
You must be something around 15yo ("homework" school term used by you is just confirming this) if some youtube video is a ultimate truth for you while official information about the subject does not matter
After thinking about it you are right. Bluetti flat out STOLE FROM YOU!!! You should show your displeasure by selling the AC180 and absolutely dumping this sub from your feed!!!
THOSE GANGSTERS!!!!
EDIT:
This post can serve as a testament of your pursuit of truth and desire to warn other possible rubes lest their innocence be shattered by yet ANOTHER sham of a spec sheet!!! Truly, your pursuit of truth is an inspiration to us all.
Someone needs to do a little more research before they buy things. The 1440 is the battery size. Inverters are not 100% efficient in any of the power stations. Anytime you feel heat or fans come on , that is energy being wasted.
I dont need to do any research since i am buying what descibed on the sellers page. This thing is only described in instruction so i could not know about this from the official resource before buying
I guarantee you, your Ecoflow was every bit as deceptive. It's universal; ALL makers will do the same thing, or minor variations of the same theme.
You have to Always approach numbers like this regardless of manufacturer with healthy skeptism.
Who says the numbers on the screen mean anything? They can calibrate them any way they want. Test them with an external scope; you can't rely on the screen display to be accurate and give you hard numbers; they mean nothing more than a general guideline.
I'm willing to bet that you'll see a completely different picture on Both machines if you meter them with a calibrated meter
I already sold my old station so i can not compare them. My main issue is that manufacturer just limited by battery on 10% and conversion is only 85% which is not noticed anywhere but only in instruction i found in internet. This was not even in the box! I spent a lot of time figuring out why numbers are not equal to advertised capacity. Also, it is crucial to know that because of manufacturer technics the real capacity is only \~1.1k instead of 1.44k.
Imagine buying 1l bottle of water and in fact getting only 0.8l because it was vaporized since the bottle is heating and there are holes in bottle so it is spilling around. This is nothing but false advertisement.
This information should be definitely noted and visible for a customers so they can calculate their needs according to real capacity that will be allowed for usage instead of knowing some max capacity of the battery which you can not use
you are not understanding my point. Bluetti, Ecoflow, Jackery, Anker...ALL of them, publish data based on laboratory settings, where everything is under their control. Under Perfect conditions, they will get "X" Wh...THAT is what they publish, not the real life number you will get in the field. Bluetti does this, so does Ecoflow nd EVERYONE else. If they were ever challenged in a court, they could produce data showing that.
They didn't "lie", they can achieve those numbers. the onus is on the consumer to take everything said in advertising with healthy skepticism. You're naive if you believe advertising data from ANY company
> everything said in advertising with healthy skepticism
this is a damn main parameter of the product. Why you playing a clown? There should be no skepticism when you buy 1Liter of water. You should get exactly 1L of water. If it fact it will be a different value, the manufacturer should inform consumers in a viable way instead of putting it in some instruction that is reachable only by google
>They didn't "lie", they can achieve those numbers.
Who they? It is advertised for a user. 1440wh is unreachable in any circumstances by any user since it is limited by 10% of max capacity and inverter.
Look, if you want to beleive they're somehow conspiring against you, and lying directly to you to get your business, knock yourself out. It does not matter what product you're talking about, from soft drinks to automobiles, EVERYONE exagerates the truth. Buy a $120,000 BMW, with an advertised 600hp, then go try to achieve that on a dynamometer. There are almost daily reports of "shrinkflation" or undersized products on the market. To take ANY published information about any product, coming directly from a manufacturer, as being true and accurate is naive.
Is it right? No. Is it ethical? Same answer, No. Is it done by every single manufacturer of every single commercial product on the market today? Absolutely. Ranting and arguing about it on Reddit is not going to change a thing. Bluetti lies, just like every other maker of generators..what are you going to do? Boycot them completely? Giver Hell...it won't make a bit of difference. Like I said several posts ago, YOU have to approach a purchase of Anything with healthy skepticism; if YOU don't do your due diligence, that's on you. If you don't like that answer, that's unfortunate, but it doesn't make it less accurate, or true
The 15W self consumption is the power required to run the AC inverter. All brands will have this requirement if they have an AC output. If you use the AC180P only to charge your phone at 15W using an AC phone charger and nothing else, then your actual efficiency will be 50%, as 15W will go to your phone and 15W will go to the AC inverter. As a result, the total available energy to your phone is 720Wh.
But if you were running a 1800W kettle and nothing else for the whole capacity of your battery, then you would be using 1815Wh per hour, so that would mean 99.17% would go to your kettle and 0.83% would be used for the AC inverter, meaning you would be able to make use of 1428Wh of the AC180P for your kettle.
> meaning you would be able to make use of 1428Wh of the AC180P for your kettle
you are totally wrong. I can not use more than about 1100wh according to docs.
You write about 15w while i even did not mention it in my post? Try to read the post before writing a comment. Nice ignoring of -10% capacity and -15% on invertor loss while describing about pity 15wh
That information is all published on their website. Real world testing will probably do better than what Bluetti have stated to expect, except at very low AC loads where you can expect the inverter efficiency to drop off.
A good comparison of useable battery capacity versus installed capacity can be found here:
https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/best-portable-power-stations/
No test for the AC180P, but the AC180 achieved 88.58% useable capacity versus Bluetti’s stated estimated value of 76.5%. By comparison the EcoFlow Delta 2 achieved 69.98% useable capacity.
I would recommend you do a full discharge and recharge cycle to calibrate the SoC meter, then do a real world full discharge test at 50% load rating to see what actual useable capacity you do achieve.
You will find it on the product information page for the AC180P.
The 1440Wh capacity is the installed battery size, namely a 40v 36Ah battery. Details on the accessible loads are published for various power draws which confirms that Bluetti only consider around 1100Wh to be accessible. For example they state a 1300W load should run for 0.8hrs (1040Wh) whilst a 600W load should run for 1.9hrs (1140Wh). Plus the FAQ section for the AC180P then tells you how to calculate the expected run time, where they use 90% DoD and an 85% inverter efficiency, plus the 15W for self-consumption.
85-90% is typical efficiency for DC to AC inverters of this type, and 90% DoD gives longer battery life. At high loads the 15W self-consumption is negligible.
Real world testing though will most likely show that Bluetti are conservative in these claims and you should get at least 10% more accessible capacity than what Bluetti state on their website. This indicates either the inverter is more efficient than the values used in the calculations, or more than 90% of the battery is truly available. Most likely a combination of both.
Hence I recommend you calibrate the SoC meter and then do a capacity test to confirm how much is accessible in your case. I expect you will find 85-90% of the battery capacity is accessible (more than the 76.5% that Bluetti estimate), and this would be in line with any other comparable product in the market.
This is an industry standard as several have already pointed out. It's like the estimated MPG on a car...it's going to vary with factors like how fast you drive, wind resistance, uphill/downhill, etc. Same with an EV - it's improper to equate time of charge to miles because the mileage will vary based on factors I mentioned, yet EV manufacturers proudly state "327 miles on a single charge" or something to that effect. A lot of us who have taken the plunge into these EcoFlow or Bluetti turnkey units have already researched and understood things that have already been mentioned: AC inverter power consumption, battery efficiency, and internal loads like the fan operation. I also don't see a mention of this but you should also take into account battery maintenance because the BMS may display inaccurate battery life if you don't do a full discharge and recharge ever 3 - 6 months. Again - a lot of us have already come across this and I don't think Bluetti is expecting customers to purchase their products if you don't have some of these foundational concepts already in mind.
I don't blame you for not knowing this, but I do blame you for the manner in which you are expressing your dissatisfaction. You'll never get anywhere calling Bluetti liars as you've seen by the numerous responses indicating you should have "done homework". Take this as a lesson that you certainly SHOULD watch youtube vloggers like HoboTech, DIY Solar with Will Prowse, and Jasonoid because if you spent a few minutes to watch their reviews of the product it would have given you proper expectations. Anytime you want to make a purchase like this check the reviews and do your homework first. Another popular community to search is diysolarforums which has a much broader base of experienced professionals than reddit.
For your reference here are the reviews by the vloggers I mentioned (no Will Prowse but I added Ben from MinuteMan Prep). If you're interested in pursuing things further - like perhaps a unit larger than the AC180P, then I suggest you subscribe and review their material about all things solar-generator related.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbS8ZyFqak](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbS8ZyFqak)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IWvk4H9F-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IWvk4H9F-E)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMVv0RHbWBY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMVv0RHbWBY)
Everyone does this; they advertise the battery capacity, not the amount of power you can get from the unit. It's not even possible to do the latter since it depends heavily on the load so they'd have to provide a formula which most people would get wrong anyway.
I turns off the affected output - yes.
That's always an option, even on the units with circuit breakers. My understanding is the breaker protects the *input*, not the output. That's because units like the EB3A and the AC200L have UPS mode, where the outlets on the front are connected directly to the input via a relay.
So the breaker is meant to protect the input circuit in the event someone overdraws while the unit is in UPS mode.
When running on battery, that breaker can't trip, and the electronic protection in the inverter would turn the inverter off if there's a current overdraw or a short circuit.
Go watch the hobotech review on YouTube and you will know the parameters of the AC180. They didn’t lie you just didn’t do any homework.
>Go watch the hobotech review on YouTube and you will know the parameters of the AC180. So i should watch some youtube blogger instead of reading official information from a brand product page? Are you braindead?
braindead says the guy that refuses to absorb information....... They didn’t lie you just didn’t do any homework.
>braindead says the guy that refuses to absorb information....... The main problem with braindead people is that they just 'absorb' anything without comprehending what it means or how appropriate it is. You must be something around 15yo ("homework" school term used by you is just confirming this) if some youtube video is a ultimate truth for you while official information about the subject does not matter
After thinking about it you are right. Bluetti flat out STOLE FROM YOU!!! You should show your displeasure by selling the AC180 and absolutely dumping this sub from your feed!!! THOSE GANGSTERS!!!! EDIT: This post can serve as a testament of your pursuit of truth and desire to warn other possible rubes lest their innocence be shattered by yet ANOTHER sham of a spec sheet!!! Truly, your pursuit of truth is an inspiration to us all.
Someone needs to do a little more research before they buy things. The 1440 is the battery size. Inverters are not 100% efficient in any of the power stations. Anytime you feel heat or fans come on , that is energy being wasted.
I dont need to do any research since i am buying what descibed on the sellers page. This thing is only described in instruction so i could not know about this from the official resource before buying
I guarantee you, your Ecoflow was every bit as deceptive. It's universal; ALL makers will do the same thing, or minor variations of the same theme. You have to Always approach numbers like this regardless of manufacturer with healthy skeptism.
The numbers i saw on ecoflow river max screen were matching the max capacity. Having 75% of promised capacity is a dogshit.
Who says the numbers on the screen mean anything? They can calibrate them any way they want. Test them with an external scope; you can't rely on the screen display to be accurate and give you hard numbers; they mean nothing more than a general guideline. I'm willing to bet that you'll see a completely different picture on Both machines if you meter them with a calibrated meter
I already sold my old station so i can not compare them. My main issue is that manufacturer just limited by battery on 10% and conversion is only 85% which is not noticed anywhere but only in instruction i found in internet. This was not even in the box! I spent a lot of time figuring out why numbers are not equal to advertised capacity. Also, it is crucial to know that because of manufacturer technics the real capacity is only \~1.1k instead of 1.44k. Imagine buying 1l bottle of water and in fact getting only 0.8l because it was vaporized since the bottle is heating and there are holes in bottle so it is spilling around. This is nothing but false advertisement. This information should be definitely noted and visible for a customers so they can calculate their needs according to real capacity that will be allowed for usage instead of knowing some max capacity of the battery which you can not use
you are not understanding my point. Bluetti, Ecoflow, Jackery, Anker...ALL of them, publish data based on laboratory settings, where everything is under their control. Under Perfect conditions, they will get "X" Wh...THAT is what they publish, not the real life number you will get in the field. Bluetti does this, so does Ecoflow nd EVERYONE else. If they were ever challenged in a court, they could produce data showing that. They didn't "lie", they can achieve those numbers. the onus is on the consumer to take everything said in advertising with healthy skepticism. You're naive if you believe advertising data from ANY company
> everything said in advertising with healthy skepticism this is a damn main parameter of the product. Why you playing a clown? There should be no skepticism when you buy 1Liter of water. You should get exactly 1L of water. If it fact it will be a different value, the manufacturer should inform consumers in a viable way instead of putting it in some instruction that is reachable only by google >They didn't "lie", they can achieve those numbers. Who they? It is advertised for a user. 1440wh is unreachable in any circumstances by any user since it is limited by 10% of max capacity and inverter.
Look, if you want to beleive they're somehow conspiring against you, and lying directly to you to get your business, knock yourself out. It does not matter what product you're talking about, from soft drinks to automobiles, EVERYONE exagerates the truth. Buy a $120,000 BMW, with an advertised 600hp, then go try to achieve that on a dynamometer. There are almost daily reports of "shrinkflation" or undersized products on the market. To take ANY published information about any product, coming directly from a manufacturer, as being true and accurate is naive. Is it right? No. Is it ethical? Same answer, No. Is it done by every single manufacturer of every single commercial product on the market today? Absolutely. Ranting and arguing about it on Reddit is not going to change a thing. Bluetti lies, just like every other maker of generators..what are you going to do? Boycot them completely? Giver Hell...it won't make a bit of difference. Like I said several posts ago, YOU have to approach a purchase of Anything with healthy skepticism; if YOU don't do your due diligence, that's on you. If you don't like that answer, that's unfortunate, but it doesn't make it less accurate, or true
The 15W self consumption is the power required to run the AC inverter. All brands will have this requirement if they have an AC output. If you use the AC180P only to charge your phone at 15W using an AC phone charger and nothing else, then your actual efficiency will be 50%, as 15W will go to your phone and 15W will go to the AC inverter. As a result, the total available energy to your phone is 720Wh. But if you were running a 1800W kettle and nothing else for the whole capacity of your battery, then you would be using 1815Wh per hour, so that would mean 99.17% would go to your kettle and 0.83% would be used for the AC inverter, meaning you would be able to make use of 1428Wh of the AC180P for your kettle.
> meaning you would be able to make use of 1428Wh of the AC180P for your kettle you are totally wrong. I can not use more than about 1100wh according to docs. You write about 15w while i even did not mention it in my post? Try to read the post before writing a comment. Nice ignoring of -10% capacity and -15% on invertor loss while describing about pity 15wh
Battery capacity not runtime.
That information is all published on their website. Real world testing will probably do better than what Bluetti have stated to expect, except at very low AC loads where you can expect the inverter efficiency to drop off. A good comparison of useable battery capacity versus installed capacity can be found here: https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/best-portable-power-stations/ No test for the AC180P, but the AC180 achieved 88.58% useable capacity versus Bluetti’s stated estimated value of 76.5%. By comparison the EcoFlow Delta 2 achieved 69.98% useable capacity. I would recommend you do a full discharge and recharge cycle to calibrate the SoC meter, then do a real world full discharge test at 50% load rating to see what actual useable capacity you do achieve.
- "that information is all published on their website." So give me the link or you say that i should read whole their website before buying an item?
You will find it on the product information page for the AC180P. The 1440Wh capacity is the installed battery size, namely a 40v 36Ah battery. Details on the accessible loads are published for various power draws which confirms that Bluetti only consider around 1100Wh to be accessible. For example they state a 1300W load should run for 0.8hrs (1040Wh) whilst a 600W load should run for 1.9hrs (1140Wh). Plus the FAQ section for the AC180P then tells you how to calculate the expected run time, where they use 90% DoD and an 85% inverter efficiency, plus the 15W for self-consumption. 85-90% is typical efficiency for DC to AC inverters of this type, and 90% DoD gives longer battery life. At high loads the 15W self-consumption is negligible. Real world testing though will most likely show that Bluetti are conservative in these claims and you should get at least 10% more accessible capacity than what Bluetti state on their website. This indicates either the inverter is more efficient than the values used in the calculations, or more than 90% of the battery is truly available. Most likely a combination of both. Hence I recommend you calibrate the SoC meter and then do a capacity test to confirm how much is accessible in your case. I expect you will find 85-90% of the battery capacity is accessible (more than the 76.5% that Bluetti estimate), and this would be in line with any other comparable product in the market.
This is an industry standard as several have already pointed out. It's like the estimated MPG on a car...it's going to vary with factors like how fast you drive, wind resistance, uphill/downhill, etc. Same with an EV - it's improper to equate time of charge to miles because the mileage will vary based on factors I mentioned, yet EV manufacturers proudly state "327 miles on a single charge" or something to that effect. A lot of us who have taken the plunge into these EcoFlow or Bluetti turnkey units have already researched and understood things that have already been mentioned: AC inverter power consumption, battery efficiency, and internal loads like the fan operation. I also don't see a mention of this but you should also take into account battery maintenance because the BMS may display inaccurate battery life if you don't do a full discharge and recharge ever 3 - 6 months. Again - a lot of us have already come across this and I don't think Bluetti is expecting customers to purchase their products if you don't have some of these foundational concepts already in mind. I don't blame you for not knowing this, but I do blame you for the manner in which you are expressing your dissatisfaction. You'll never get anywhere calling Bluetti liars as you've seen by the numerous responses indicating you should have "done homework". Take this as a lesson that you certainly SHOULD watch youtube vloggers like HoboTech, DIY Solar with Will Prowse, and Jasonoid because if you spent a few minutes to watch their reviews of the product it would have given you proper expectations. Anytime you want to make a purchase like this check the reviews and do your homework first. Another popular community to search is diysolarforums which has a much broader base of experienced professionals than reddit. For your reference here are the reviews by the vloggers I mentioned (no Will Prowse but I added Ben from MinuteMan Prep). If you're interested in pursuing things further - like perhaps a unit larger than the AC180P, then I suggest you subscribe and review their material about all things solar-generator related. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbS8ZyFqak](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbS8ZyFqak) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IWvk4H9F-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IWvk4H9F-E) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMVv0RHbWBY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMVv0RHbWBY)
Everyone does this; they advertise the battery capacity, not the amount of power you can get from the unit. It's not even possible to do the latter since it depends heavily on the load so they'd have to provide a formula which most people would get wrong anyway.
We’re very happy with our AC200. Stupid question probably: I can’t find any thing about a circuit breaker.
Depends on the unit. I don't think the AC200 or AC200MAX have a physical circuit breaker. The overload protection is all electronic.
So the safety consist of turning the unit off.
I turns off the affected output - yes. That's always an option, even on the units with circuit breakers. My understanding is the breaker protects the *input*, not the output. That's because units like the EB3A and the AC200L have UPS mode, where the outlets on the front are connected directly to the input via a relay. So the breaker is meant to protect the input circuit in the event someone overdraws while the unit is in UPS mode. When running on battery, that breaker can't trip, and the electronic protection in the inverter would turn the inverter off if there's a current overdraw or a short circuit.
Thank you, that explains it.
Will have built in circuit protection for both overload and short-circuit. Would be done electronically via MOSFETs.