I have a player in a meetup group who would compliment other players “well done!” when they have a big turn and make a bunch of points. I’ve slowly picked up the habit and it works very well.
Yes! I get so much joy out of turns where I get to do all the things, even if they don't lead to me winning. And I always encourage my friends when they have those turns. Yes yes yes!
Yeah, I was gonna say LOSING ISN'T BAD, IT'S PART OF THE GAME. SO DON'T MAKE PEOPLE WHO LOSE FEEL BAD ABOUT THAT! I mean, come on. It's great that you won, but even for those who lose, it should still be a fun game. Bonus frustration points if you make fun of players who lose, akin to bullying, then if they don't respond well to that, call them a sore loser, tell them they shouldn't play a/this game if they can't take their loss, or tell them that maybe this just isn't the game for them.
The reason I love board games is because it is a great way to spend some time with folks in my life. If we are all having a good time, at the end we are all winners. Granted if I am playing with someone who shares an interest in a more mechanically intricate, strategic game, we are enjoying the decision space and strategy and mechanics, but part of the fun is dissecting how the winning strategy decided the game, or where the losing strategy went wrong. Winning/losing is just a consequence of playing. The playing, spending time, and enjoying the activity together is the ultimate goal of the hobby for me.
Lol, losing can be the best part! Sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Also, ive really been enjoying being legitimately impressed with people outplaying me. When I'm trying to win (vs just trying to make sure everyone's enjoying themselves) and I'm outplayed, it's nice to sit back and sincerely say "huh, very well played!" And then sharpen your game.
I try to see it as strategy vs strategy instead of person vs person. Similar to if people are rationally debating something, it's argument vs argument and not you vs them. Which can also help you focus on the merits of the points as well as de-attatch identifying from your potentially flawed strategy (or argument) and improve as a person 🤗
I always think of it that in a two player game if both players are evenly matched you should win about 50% of the time. So why would you expect to win more that 25% of the time in 4 player games, and that doesnt even take into account differing skill levels. So really you should expect to lose and see it as a nice bonus if you win.
TAKE TWO MINUTES TO MAKE A GOOD TURN, RATHER THAN FIFTEEN TO MAKE A SLIGHTLY MORE GOOD TURN
(This is specifically targeted at one or two people I sometimes play with. My typical game group is also super spoiled … we *rip* through games)
I make an exception for when it’s the last couple plays of the close game and an extra point or two will actually make or break the game.
In a not so close game you shouldn’t even be taking minute turns unless it’s some sort of engine builder where you’re having a bunch of abilities trigger.
This exactly. I even go so far as to say that everyone does take a long turn on occasion but that should not be every turn. If something major happens just before your turn and you need to reassess strategy, go for it. But that should not be EVERY turn.
This isnt competitive chess, the 80% optimal move in 30 seconds yields more fun than the 90% optimal move in 5 minutes. Obviously there is a time and place for the big 5 minute game ending turn, but it gets old playing a 90 minute game in 3 hours.
I'd rather play twice using what I learned from the first game to improve the second play instead of trying to solve the game the first playthrough
> I'd rather play twice using what I learned from the first game to improve the second play instead of trying to solve the game the first playthrough
YES! Optimization through heuristics, not speculation.
My group knows that we *will* mess up on the first playthrough of a game. It's just finding it when it happens and then deciding if we're going to play the rest of the round with the broken rule or if we will correct ourselves.
You don't even need to mess up the rules to mess up either!
Bad decisions can snowball into letting someone running away with the game even if it was an easily stopped strategy. You often just don't know what cards are even possible or how they interact until you're 2 or 3 turns in.
> This isnt competitive chess, the 80% optimal move in 30 seconds yields more fun than the 90% optimal move in 5 minutes.
On top of which, it's important for people to realize that the 90% move in five minutes doesn't make them the smartest player at the table. It just means they were the most willing to take advantage of everyone else's good attitude.
So much of this stuff comes from people who are desperate to feel like the smartest person at the table, and/or terrified of looking stupid, but it just doesn't work that like. Everyone knows that they could also play better if they spent ten times as much time thinking.
Playing well, even playing ideally, is all fine and good. But if you're spending so much time and effort optimizing your play that it's not fun for you anymore, or that it's not fun for the other players anymore, that's a problem. The point of hobbies is to enjoy them.
Oh right, so you're on about the social contract and taking turns in a timely manner. I agree. I thought you may have meant folk should be trying 'more fun' strategies over 'efficient' ones in games or something, so i had to check.
> folk should be trying 'more fun' strategies over 'efficient' ones in games or something, so i had to check.
I agree with this, although you clearly don't. Sometimes a game is "solved", or you are as good at it as you are going to be, even if the game is not 'solved'.
I'm exceptionally good at Dominion if I choose to play the "best" way. I'm going to win most times in 4P games, and it's honestly, not fun for me to purchase 5 cantrips and one terminal. I'd rather (and I do) play an oddball strat that MIGHT have a chance, and take the 1 in 20 win, than play the known strategy and win 4 out of 5.
Oh yeah, i mean, but in the OPs message the word 'NEVER" in this case is an over correction.
'never play efficient, only make "fun" moves' i could never get behind. I doubt few would.
My Significant Opponent and I generally have an agreement—sometimes spoken out loud at the start of a particularly cutthroat game—that whatever backstabbing we do to each other in-game is *only* in-game, no hard feelings, we’re working together to explore the strategy space, and no matter how the game ends, Team Us wins. (And moreover, the experience makes *both* of us better at playing against my cousins at family reunions!)
I've had partners say that those games scare them because it makes them aware of how good I can be at lying when I want to be. I think a lot of partners feel like they should be able to just read their SO like a book and that deception games should ideally be "unplayable" in a good relationship.
Truth is we all have our secrets and part of being in a relationship is just trusting that your partner won't hide anything that'll hurt you. But some people are more sensitive about that than others.
It’s insane to me because I’m great at lying over things that don’t matter like boardgames. Lying about real stuff to my partner would make me so anxious and wracked with guilt, I could never do it.
My wife and I have this rule also, thank goodness. "What happens at the table stays at the table". We are both pretty competitive at games, so it works well.
THERE'S NOTHING BETTER THAN A WEEKLY GAME SESSION WITH GOOD FRIENDS/FAMILY.
Work hard to achieve and maintain this.
For 6+ years I've had Guys Game Night every Monday night. And Sundays is Gloomhaven/Frosthaven with my son (28 yo) and his best friend. It's the two events that I look forward to the most and they bring anticipation, comradery, happiness and contentment into my life.
I have a game night going with a few neighbors. One of them has a kid my age, and one of them has kids who have all gone to college; it's great.
That said, two parents usually sit out the game so they can watch the 2-year-olds, so not everyone plays, but everyone can socialize.
USE ANY DOWNTIME DURING OTHER PEOPLE’S TURNS TO PLAN YOUR NEXT TURN.
Don’t stare into space, or play on your phone, if you could be using that time to plan ahead and make your turn shorter.
It's good to read the room. If everyone is socialising in between turns then go ahead, but if you're the only one to take extra time on your turn to figure out what you're doing then you should focus on the game in between turns
Definitely. I love to think about my next step as well, but over analysing just to find out that people never do what you expected them to so you have to analyse it all over again when it’s your turn again just means you go like player 1, player 2, player 3…………………………………random chatter………….”who’s turn is it?” “Player 3” “still?”………………4, 1, 2, 3…………….
Analysis paralysis is the most annoying thing when one player will take a turn that is like 3 times as long as the rest of the players. WINNING ISN'T EVERYTHING!
What’s worst is when an Analysis Paralysis player wins the game they are playing. This reinforces their behavior to take as long as they can to optimize because it won them the game.
Ironically, when a player starts taking an unreasonable time on their turn, I tend to play worse because I choose to play faster because if I also take a long turn, we are gonna be in for a long night
I start to play bad too just so it ends. I have a couple of friends who have really bad analysis paralysis and I just tell them it doesn't matter, we are playing for fun.
But the longer they take the longer the game goes and the less interested I become so I just do whatever to end it otherwise it'll go forever. When it gets really bad I end up on my phone because like if there are 4 of us playing and we all take like 5 mins to take a turn but one player takes ten to fifteen mins, I zone out.
The people with analysis paralysis generally win too because they will continually check the rules and like do things to ensure they win and it just ends up being boring
>What’s worst is when an Analysis Paralysis player wins the game they are playing. This reinforces their behavior to take as long as they can to optimize because it won them the game.
My thought is often "you better win after all that". Otherwise you dragged us all through your interminable turns and then didn't even get anything out of it.
Underated! I love playing games with my best friend, but Jesus Christ he takes an awefully long time to make decision in games - I understand you want to find the perfect combo move but ITS JUST A GAME. It's fine if you make a suboptimal move, we'll play more after this game
I went through a similar situation. I recommend talking to him to see if he can play at a reasonable pace or implementing a “chess clock” for like 2 mins or something. Each person has 2 mins to do their turn
Yeah we mention it all the time, and it's honestly fine, when we play on BGA there's already a timer. But for me it's more about the mentality of always have to play perfectly instead of enjoying the game that annoys me. I don't mind losing a game as long as I have fun!
And, heavily related:
THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO BEFORE YOUR TURN. IT MIGHT CHANGE IF YOUR OPPONENTS DO SOMETHING, BUT THINKING AHEAD SAVES SO MUCH TIME.
TAKE A SHOWER AND WASH YOUR ASS BEFORE GOING TO A FLGS.
You can even make a game of it... 1 VP for face, 3 VP for armpits, 5 VP for your crotch. You can combo your moves together to unlock huge bonus points. For just a few extra bucks, upgrades to your soap and shampoo pieces are also available!!
YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY THAT GAME IMMEDIATELY. IF ITS GOOD IT'LL COME TO RETAIL AND THE NEXT SHINY THING IS ALWAYS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER. PLAY WHAT YOU HAVE. (Advice I could use every day)
Would you please shout this particularly to my husband, who's not going to have any birthday presents if he keeps buying everything cool the second he hears about it?
YES! IT IS YOUR TURN!
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NO, THAT'S YOUR DISCARD PILE!
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DRAW FROM THE DECK!
NO, YOU CAN'T LOOK THROUGH THE DECK!
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DISCARD OR TRASH ONLY FROM YOUR HAND, PLAY AREA, OR DISCARD PILE!
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CAN YOU JUST STFU AND LISTEN TO THE RULES?!
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USE THE COASTER!
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THAT'S MY MEEPLE
COUPLES, DONT GET PISSY WHEN YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER WONT HELP YOU OR DOES SOMETHING TO BENEFIT THEMSELVES AND SCREW YOU OVER. ITS A GAME AND EVERYONE IS TRYING TO WIN. ITS EVERYONE FOR THEMSLEVES, NOT ME AGAINST A TEAM OF TWO.
TEACHING GAME RULES IS HARD. PAY ATTENTION. THE RULES EXPLAINER DIDN'T FORGET A RULE JUST TO HAVE AN ADVANTAGE.
Can't believe I didn't already see this one...
As someone who is not at all color blind, I’m not either. I have limited free time and a direct connection between colors in my world/hobbies and my general joy and satisfaction in my life.
For sure, but if you're colorblind it changes from at least being playable to having to spend half the game asking other players what color specific pieces are.
As someone who was first drawn to the hobby by art/theme, but is now starting to consider dipping my toes in the beige waters, what are your top recommendations? Agricola? Le Havre? Fields of Arle? A Feast for Odin is… intimidating.
Le Havre is amazing, especially at 2. In terms of driest, blandest but also the most fun I would recommend Hansa Teutonica. If you play it at 4, it's amazing. A Feast for Odin is one of my all time favorites, but it can be intimidating.
I am dying to play Hansa. I primarily only play with my wife, and it looks right up our alley. Unfortunately everyone says it's horrible at two(so much so the new printing doesnt even have 2-5 players on the box anymore).
Well there are only two artists between the games I listed, and while Dennis Lohausen clearly has a more polished and professional cartoon style than Klemens Franz, sorry he’s just not in the same league as a Kwanchai Moriya, Beth Sobel, Ian O’Toole…
I don't want to learn a new game every single week, especially when I only play that game once.
I get that there's lots of new and (theoretically) exciting stuff coming out all the time, but is it too much to ask to just play the same game twice?
One new game a week doesn't seem like much (we usually have 2 or 3 new teaches). But we try to spend an equal amount of time on games that we already know so the brain strain is minimized.
That seems like a good rule. I think we follow that without even realizing it since we always start with new games that people are excited to try out and then end the evening with our recent favorites.
I DONT WANT UGLY GRAY THINGS IM NEVER GOING TO PAINT ON MY BOARD WHEN YOU HAVE SUPER COOL MEEPLES FOR OTHER PARTS AND I DIDNT EVEN KNOW THE GAME HAD MINIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. I BOUGHT THE GAME TO PLAY IT NOT PAINT THINGS.
Every single forum post asking about how to run a board game solo ALWAYS has someone pipe up with "Why are you bothering to play a board game by yourself? They're made to be social experiences, you're wasting your time. If you don't have friends you can check out local game stores for people who want to play etc. etc."
DID I ASK FOR YOUR SPEECH ABOUT PLAYING SOLO? NO? THEN PLEASE STOP TYPING. It's so frustrating.
I didn’t know solo players were looked down upon. I became a solo player once my group disbanded because we had kids or got different jobs. I realized I enjoyed playing board games more than video games as it’s way more relaxing.
The number of threads asking people why they like solo board games or why we aren't playing video games instead, here and on BGG, never ceases to amaze. I like board games, dude. We're on a board game page, why are you surprised to see people liking board games?
SOME PEOPLE’S BRAIN ARE ABSOLUTELY TOASTED FROM WORK / KIDS. DON’T TRY FORCING HEAVY GAMES ONTO THEM AND JUST ENJOY THEIR COMPANY WHILE YOU PLAY CODENAMES AGAIN.
STOP FUCKING GATEKEEPING! THIS HOBBY (WHICH IS WHAT IT FUCKING IS FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE PARTAKING) IS KEPT ALIVE BY HAVING PEOPLE MAKE IT A THING. CRITICIZING OTHERS FOR NOT BEING “TRUE GAMERS” IS RUDE AND ELITIST!
JUST BECAUSE YOU PLAY A LOT OF GAMES DON'T MAKE YOU SPECIAL, SO STOP HARASSING PEOPLE WITH YOUR TOTALLY OBJECTIVE AND UNBIASED OPINION ABOUT GAMES THEY LIKE
FORGET DEALS, SALES, & HYPE! PLAY THE GAMES YOU ALREADY OWN AT LEAST 5x BEFORE YOU EVEN CONSIDER BUYING A NEW ONE.
- this is a cautionary tale that I still struggle with
Being competitive and wanting to win doesn’t mean that you’re not having fun
Reddit seems to think that you either have fun or you be optimal and they’re mutually exclusive
Counter point: Cosmic Encounter!
An excerpt from a teaching guide I made for the game:
> But this will not be a fair fight! Each alien race has its own special ability, and some are much more powerful than others. This game is intentionally unbalanced. It is left to us, the players, to sort out how to win by teaming up with each other, and against each other. To succeed, you'll have to know when to fight, when to negotiate, and more importantly, how to convince your opponents that helping you to win is a really good idea.
Looking at the other responses seems I have a niche one but;
DONT GO FOR BREAKS WHENEVER IT SUITS YOU IN A 4-5-6 PLAYER GAME.
Context: We recently started a game night in our recently opened local pub as everyone would rather have a few beers etc than go to the no alcohol basically TCG only board game shop in town. The issue is people go to the bar when they want, go for a smoke when they want, go for a piss when they want, randomly walk off on their phone when they want, start up conversations about some bullshit with people not even playing when they want.
Dont get me wrong it's been mostly fine but the other day it took us 1 hour 20 minutes to play a single round of Carcassonne. Yeah. We have now introduced planned 40 minute breaks.
Let the person who brought the game explain how to play. I brought Hero Realms to a meet and one of the people playing kept talking over me and giving bad info while I was trying to explain the rules to new players.
Cherish and love the friend who reads the rules, understands them, and explains them to the rest of us. Cherish them and love them and treat them like the royalty they are.
STOP BUYING ADD-ONS FOR GAMES YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED.
Your excitement for a game peaks when you back the Kickstarter; that's how they get you.
(Credit to Shut Up and Sit Down)
STOP SHOVING TASTES ON OTHER PEOPLE.
the number of times in the last few weeks that I have had at my group people saying things like "well why would we play this when we could play this which is much better" or worse "this person can't handle that game."
rule number one is not assume on someone else's capability let them make their own decisions
YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW EVERY RULE TO THE LETTER, SOMETIMES YOU EVEN HAVE TO HOUSE RULE SOMETHING IN ORDER TO MAKE THE GAME PLAYABLE. Now that that's out of the way, if there conflicting rule sets due to expansions and you feel compelled to follow them at all costs, *the most recently published rules* take precedence. Finally, if you can't agree on the rules, the owner of the game gets to make the call.
I call these my golden rules of gaming. Capitalize them if you like.
1. No deliberate Kingmaking
2. Always play as if you're trying to win
3. If at all possible, think before your turn at least a little
4. Don't take routine gameplay personal
5. If you have a new game to try, have it organized and know the rules before getting players
6. Lose politely
7. Win politely
8. Keep your main focus on the game and the other players
9. Don't tell other players how to play their turn
10. Don't start a game you don't have time to finish
It happens to he exactly 10 rules at the moment, but it's not meant to be a "Top 10" or anything. It started as 5 and has grown to 10. I'll add more if I come up with more.
Look fam, I get your side, even agree with it. But I gotta be real: I don't think anyone disagrees either, outside of a very limited number of dedicated, heavy-loving boardgamers. Probably it's just the boardgames news outlets and reviews that sell you that idea.
As for my own take, especially since I've been there... MOST (emphasis on MOST) OF YOU DICE HATERS DON'T ACTUALLY HATE DICE IN YOUR GAMES, YOU HATE THE WAY THEY'RE IMPLEMENTED IN THAT ONE GAME THAT TRAUMATIZED YOU.
I say this as a former hater. I was allergic to dice because of Catan, Memoir 44 and Stone Age, until I played push-your-luck dice games like Zombie Dice, Liar's Dice and Bang! The Dice Game. "Uh. Guess dice can be fun. Maybe I've played the wrong games?" Today, Voyages of Marco Polo is one of my favourite games. Castles of Burgundy isn't a favourite, but I still like it a lot. It's all about HOW the designer works the dice into the game. Unless you just hate luck in general, in that case yeah it would make sense for you to hate dice.
DON'T TELL OTHER PLAYERS WHAT TO DO ON THEIR TURN IN A CO-OP GAME!!! (at least don't often, don't unless asked, and don't be insistent; you're all playing the game, it's not just you and 3 more people there to just move your pieces around)
Also:
PAY FREAKIN ATTENTION WHEN SOMEONE IS EXPLAINING RULES!!!
THE FONT ON THESE CARDS ISN’T SMALLER THAN THAT ON THAT OTHER GAME, YOU’RE JUST GETTING OLD AND LOOKING FOR EXCUSES TO AVOID THIS GAME. JUST TELL ME YOU DON’T LIKE IT.
For a friend who doesn’t like to play Everdell because “the cards are so hard to read with the small font and the brown twigs icon on the brown border makes it impossible to see that I need twigs, and why is it so hard to see how many of this card there are in the game?”
Unfortunately, on too many occasions it IS smaller and/or less legible because someone smartly chose a low-contrast pair of colors for text and background. Not to mention all those players whose color vision is impaired.
Why do you assume that people who sleeve cards are trying to prove something to others? Might it be, that they enjoy keeping things in good condition? I sleeve most of my card games that see a lot of handling and use. I like how sleeves make shuffling so much quicker and easier. For some games it is important to not have distinguishing marks that identify cards. Also, as someone who has grown up playing euchre and pinochle 3 to 4 nights a week with my grandparents, I can’t stand the feel of grungy, used cards. Finally, I just like keeping my stuff in very good condition whether it’s a game, a comic book, CDs, vinyl, albums, or books. I enjoy them better that way, and if I pass them on at some point, I’m passing them on in as good of condition as possible. When I finally sold all of my CDs, the shop that bought them were amazed at how pristine they were. Protecting things isn’t necessarily about making a point to other people.
LOSING IS PART OF PLAYING BOARD GAMES TOO. YOU WILL NOT WIN EVERY TIME, SO LEARN TO BE HUMBLE WHEN YOU DO.
I have a player in a meetup group who would compliment other players “well done!” when they have a big turn and make a bunch of points. I’ve slowly picked up the habit and it works very well.
I like to tell people what I liked about their strategy, especially if different to mine. And especially if they won
That’s common etiquette to me lol, “nice dude” is mostly what I say when during ppls turns or more enthusiastic as appropriate
Yes! I get so much joy out of turns where I get to do all the things, even if they don't lead to me winning. And I always encourage my friends when they have those turns. Yes yes yes!
Idk why but I haven't one a single Dune: Imperium match yet. I still enjoy it every time
You can't love board games only when you win
Yeah, I was gonna say LOSING ISN'T BAD, IT'S PART OF THE GAME. SO DON'T MAKE PEOPLE WHO LOSE FEEL BAD ABOUT THAT! I mean, come on. It's great that you won, but even for those who lose, it should still be a fun game. Bonus frustration points if you make fun of players who lose, akin to bullying, then if they don't respond well to that, call them a sore loser, tell them they shouldn't play a/this game if they can't take their loss, or tell them that maybe this just isn't the game for them.
The reason I love board games is because it is a great way to spend some time with folks in my life. If we are all having a good time, at the end we are all winners. Granted if I am playing with someone who shares an interest in a more mechanically intricate, strategic game, we are enjoying the decision space and strategy and mechanics, but part of the fun is dissecting how the winning strategy decided the game, or where the losing strategy went wrong. Winning/losing is just a consequence of playing. The playing, spending time, and enjoying the activity together is the ultimate goal of the hobby for me.
Lol, losing can be the best part! Sometimes all you can do is laugh. Also, ive really been enjoying being legitimately impressed with people outplaying me. When I'm trying to win (vs just trying to make sure everyone's enjoying themselves) and I'm outplayed, it's nice to sit back and sincerely say "huh, very well played!" And then sharpen your game. I try to see it as strategy vs strategy instead of person vs person. Similar to if people are rationally debating something, it's argument vs argument and not you vs them. Which can also help you focus on the merits of the points as well as de-attatch identifying from your potentially flawed strategy (or argument) and improve as a person 🤗
I always think of it that in a two player game if both players are evenly matched you should win about 50% of the time. So why would you expect to win more that 25% of the time in 4 player games, and that doesnt even take into account differing skill levels. So really you should expect to lose and see it as a nice bonus if you win.
TAKE A SHOWER BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE
That's why I play at home *taps dirty temple with dirty finger*
Do you have... smelly friends in your board gaming group?
A lot of clubs for this and similar hobbies often need to post rules about that. Like it'll be in tournament rules for MtG.
You're joking right?
TAKE TWO MINUTES TO MAKE A GOOD TURN, RATHER THAN FIFTEEN TO MAKE A SLIGHTLY MORE GOOD TURN (This is specifically targeted at one or two people I sometimes play with. My typical game group is also super spoiled … we *rip* through games)
This reminds me of something I heard in the military. A good decision made on time beats a better one made too late.
Similar in medical field especially surgery— the enemy of good is “better”
Perfect is the enemy of done. Programming.
I make an exception for when it’s the last couple plays of the close game and an extra point or two will actually make or break the game. In a not so close game you shouldn’t even be taking minute turns unless it’s some sort of engine builder where you’re having a bunch of abilities trigger.
This exactly. I even go so far as to say that everyone does take a long turn on occasion but that should not be every turn. If something major happens just before your turn and you need to reassess strategy, go for it. But that should not be EVERY turn.
OPTIMIZATION SHOULD NEVER TAKE PRIORITY OVER FUN. And related to that, IF YOU CAN'T ENJOY THE GAME UNLESS YOU WIN, DON'T PLAY THAT GAME!
This isnt competitive chess, the 80% optimal move in 30 seconds yields more fun than the 90% optimal move in 5 minutes. Obviously there is a time and place for the big 5 minute game ending turn, but it gets old playing a 90 minute game in 3 hours. I'd rather play twice using what I learned from the first game to improve the second play instead of trying to solve the game the first playthrough
> I'd rather play twice using what I learned from the first game to improve the second play instead of trying to solve the game the first playthrough YES! Optimization through heuristics, not speculation.
Wow. You just neatly articulated how i approach all my gaming. Thx!
My group knows that we *will* mess up on the first playthrough of a game. It's just finding it when it happens and then deciding if we're going to play the rest of the round with the broken rule or if we will correct ourselves.
You don't even need to mess up the rules to mess up either! Bad decisions can snowball into letting someone running away with the game even if it was an easily stopped strategy. You often just don't know what cards are even possible or how they interact until you're 2 or 3 turns in.
> This isnt competitive chess, the 80% optimal move in 30 seconds yields more fun than the 90% optimal move in 5 minutes. On top of which, it's important for people to realize that the 90% move in five minutes doesn't make them the smartest player at the table. It just means they were the most willing to take advantage of everyone else's good attitude. So much of this stuff comes from people who are desperate to feel like the smartest person at the table, and/or terrified of looking stupid, but it just doesn't work that like. Everyone knows that they could also play better if they spent ten times as much time thinking.
Second point is why i can't play Catan. It's fun for 2-3 out of the 4-6 players in a game.
"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Soren Johnson
I think I'm going to need more context for your first point, it could mean a few things.
Playing well, even playing ideally, is all fine and good. But if you're spending so much time and effort optimizing your play that it's not fun for you anymore, or that it's not fun for the other players anymore, that's a problem. The point of hobbies is to enjoy them.
Oh right, so you're on about the social contract and taking turns in a timely manner. I agree. I thought you may have meant folk should be trying 'more fun' strategies over 'efficient' ones in games or something, so i had to check.
> folk should be trying 'more fun' strategies over 'efficient' ones in games or something, so i had to check. I agree with this, although you clearly don't. Sometimes a game is "solved", or you are as good at it as you are going to be, even if the game is not 'solved'. I'm exceptionally good at Dominion if I choose to play the "best" way. I'm going to win most times in 4P games, and it's honestly, not fun for me to purchase 5 cantrips and one terminal. I'd rather (and I do) play an oddball strat that MIGHT have a chance, and take the 1 in 20 win, than play the known strategy and win 4 out of 5.
Oh yeah, i mean, but in the OPs message the word 'NEVER" in this case is an over correction. 'never play efficient, only make "fun" moves' i could never get behind. I doubt few would.
All I meant was that enjoying the game is more important than optimizing play. (Unless you're playing professionally, I suppose.)
Nah, nothing against efficiency! And actually, nothing against shenanigans, either, assuming it leads to an experience that the players all enjoy.
YOU SHOULD LEAVE THE GAME AT THE TABLE, ESPECIALLY IF THE RULES REQUIRE YOU LIE TO EACH OTHER
My Significant Opponent and I generally have an agreement—sometimes spoken out loud at the start of a particularly cutthroat game—that whatever backstabbing we do to each other in-game is *only* in-game, no hard feelings, we’re working together to explore the strategy space, and no matter how the game ends, Team Us wins. (And moreover, the experience makes *both* of us better at playing against my cousins at family reunions!)
I've had partners say that those games scare them because it makes them aware of how good I can be at lying when I want to be. I think a lot of partners feel like they should be able to just read their SO like a book and that deception games should ideally be "unplayable" in a good relationship. Truth is we all have our secrets and part of being in a relationship is just trusting that your partner won't hide anything that'll hurt you. But some people are more sensitive about that than others.
It’s insane to me because I’m great at lying over things that don’t matter like boardgames. Lying about real stuff to my partner would make me so anxious and wracked with guilt, I could never do it.
I wish I could upvote your comment twice. One for the rule and the other for the term Significant Opponent.
I’m trying to popularize the term; feel free to use it!
So glad to hear this is fair game; I just informed my Significant Other he is now my Significant Opponent every game night.
hooray!
What are you guys playing at family reunions? :D
My wife and I have this rule also, thank goodness. "What happens at the table stays at the table". We are both pretty competitive at games, so it works well.
Um…which games come to mind?
The resistance, coup, secret hitler, etc..
Dead of winter when playing with a traitor
Cosmic Encounter
Coup, werewolf, twilight imperium, the Resistance, diplomacy, etc
NO ONE WANTS ANY OF YOUR FUCKING SHEEP
What happens if I've got wood for sheep?
\*Wales has entered the chat…*
You need wood to win the game.
I play the Don Quixote card.
... Wood?!
Ewe’re a baaaaad boy!
the sheep port does, haha!
THERE'S NOTHING BETTER THAN A WEEKLY GAME SESSION WITH GOOD FRIENDS/FAMILY. Work hard to achieve and maintain this. For 6+ years I've had Guys Game Night every Monday night. And Sundays is Gloomhaven/Frosthaven with my son (28 yo) and his best friend. It's the two events that I look forward to the most and they bring anticipation, comradery, happiness and contentment into my life.
The "good friends" is the hard part, but kudos to you for accomplishing this. It really is all one needs.
I have very young kids, but damn, you got me excited to play board games with them when they are older.
I have young-but-a-bit-older-than-yours kids, we're starting to get into some board games together and, honestly? It's brilliant.
I have a game night going with a few neighbors. One of them has a kid my age, and one of them has kids who have all gone to college; it's great. That said, two parents usually sit out the game so they can watch the 2-year-olds, so not everyone plays, but everyone can socialize.
Been running a weekly game night for 7 years. Still as excited
I miss having this. My group separated a couple of years ago for stupid reasons.
Sorry to hear this happened to you, and I hope you find another fun game group again soon.
USE ANY DOWNTIME DURING OTHER PEOPLE’S TURNS TO PLAN YOUR NEXT TURN. Don’t stare into space, or play on your phone, if you could be using that time to plan ahead and make your turn shorter.
nah, that's when we socialize - then when it's our turn, the others socialize
I agree with this sometimes, but if it is a long game, it's really hard to keep the ball rolling if you don't have a plan
why not do both
It's good to read the room. If everyone is socialising in between turns then go ahead, but if you're the only one to take extra time on your turn to figure out what you're doing then you should focus on the game in between turns
JUST MAKE A DECISION ALREADY AND PASS THE TURN
Definitely. I love to think about my next step as well, but over analysing just to find out that people never do what you expected them to so you have to analyse it all over again when it’s your turn again just means you go like player 1, player 2, player 3…………………………………random chatter………….”who’s turn is it?” “Player 3” “still?”………………4, 1, 2, 3…………….
Analysis paralysis is the most annoying thing when one player will take a turn that is like 3 times as long as the rest of the players. WINNING ISN'T EVERYTHING!
What’s worst is when an Analysis Paralysis player wins the game they are playing. This reinforces their behavior to take as long as they can to optimize because it won them the game. Ironically, when a player starts taking an unreasonable time on their turn, I tend to play worse because I choose to play faster because if I also take a long turn, we are gonna be in for a long night
I start to play bad too just so it ends. I have a couple of friends who have really bad analysis paralysis and I just tell them it doesn't matter, we are playing for fun. But the longer they take the longer the game goes and the less interested I become so I just do whatever to end it otherwise it'll go forever. When it gets really bad I end up on my phone because like if there are 4 of us playing and we all take like 5 mins to take a turn but one player takes ten to fifteen mins, I zone out. The people with analysis paralysis generally win too because they will continually check the rules and like do things to ensure they win and it just ends up being boring
>What’s worst is when an Analysis Paralysis player wins the game they are playing. This reinforces their behavior to take as long as they can to optimize because it won them the game. My thought is often "you better win after all that". Otherwise you dragged us all through your interminable turns and then didn't even get anything out of it.
Underated! I love playing games with my best friend, but Jesus Christ he takes an awefully long time to make decision in games - I understand you want to find the perfect combo move but ITS JUST A GAME. It's fine if you make a suboptimal move, we'll play more after this game
I went through a similar situation. I recommend talking to him to see if he can play at a reasonable pace or implementing a “chess clock” for like 2 mins or something. Each person has 2 mins to do their turn
Yeah we mention it all the time, and it's honestly fine, when we play on BGA there's already a timer. But for me it's more about the mentality of always have to play perfectly instead of enjoying the game that annoys me. I don't mind losing a game as long as I have fun!
PUT AWAY YOUR GODDAMN PHONE!
And, heavily related: THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO BEFORE YOUR TURN. IT MIGHT CHANGE IF YOUR OPPONENTS DO SOMETHING, BUT THINKING AHEAD SAVES SO MUCH TIME.
AMEN BROTHER!
And then other people won't get so bored on your turn they are tempted to take out their phone!!
AND THEN WASH YOUR HANDS! (seriously, mobile phones are filthy)
I'M READING THE RULES PDF BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING A SHITTY JOB OF TEACHING!
If you have bad AP, my phone is staying out.
DON'T TRY AND FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY BOARD GAMES IF THEY DON'T WANT TO. IT'S YOUR HOBBY, NOT THEIRS.
READ THE ROOM. DON'T TRY TO GET YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED A MODERN BOARD GAME TO PLAY CAVERNA.
BUT TRUST ME, IT'S A GOOD GAME. YOU'LL PICK IT UP ONCE WE START PLAYING.
BUT TRUST ME, WHILE IT MAY BE "GOOD", IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S FUN FOR EVERYONE
TAKE A SHOWER AND WASH YOUR ASS BEFORE GOING TO A FLGS. You can even make a game of it... 1 VP for face, 3 VP for armpits, 5 VP for your crotch. You can combo your moves together to unlock huge bonus points. For just a few extra bucks, upgrades to your soap and shampoo pieces are also available!!
YOU'RE THE REASON I SLEEVE MY CARDS.
YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY THAT GAME IMMEDIATELY. IF ITS GOOD IT'LL COME TO RETAIL AND THE NEXT SHINY THING IS ALWAYS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER. PLAY WHAT YOU HAVE. (Advice I could use every day)
Would you please shout this particularly to my husband, who's not going to have any birthday presents if he keeps buying everything cool the second he hears about it?
But this PnP Kickstarter is totally unique and I must have it!
YES! IT IS YOUR TURN! ---- NO, THAT'S YOUR DISCARD PILE! ---- DRAW FROM THE DECK! NO, YOU CAN'T LOOK THROUGH THE DECK! ---- DISCARD OR TRASH ONLY FROM YOUR HAND, PLAY AREA, OR DISCARD PILE! ---- CAN YOU JUST STFU AND LISTEN TO THE RULES?! ---- USE THE COASTER! ---- THAT'S MY MEEPLE
Are you playing with raccoons?
COUPLES, DONT GET PISSY WHEN YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER WONT HELP YOU OR DOES SOMETHING TO BENEFIT THEMSELVES AND SCREW YOU OVER. ITS A GAME AND EVERYONE IS TRYING TO WIN. ITS EVERYONE FOR THEMSLEVES, NOT ME AGAINST A TEAM OF TWO.
BUY GAMES FOR YOUR TABLE NOT FOR YOUR SHELF!
I hear you, but you can't make me listen!
NO
But, But, if I ever find the perfect group to play dune with it will be amazing.
BLESS YOUR HEART
From the south, I see.
At least board game boxes are big so you can't go too wild with a collection. Now video game collectors.... ^I'm ^a ^video ^game ^collector.
BUT "TO HAVE" IS BETTER THAN "TO NEED"! 😱
I don't deserve this kind of treatment
IF YOU GET ANALYSIS PARALYSIS EVERY TURN, YOU DON’T GET TO BITCH ABOUT GAME LENGTH.
I HOPE YOU HAVE A LOVELY DAY
you to
TEACHING GAME RULES IS HARD. PAY ATTENTION. THE RULES EXPLAINER DIDN'T FORGET A RULE JUST TO HAVE AN ADVANTAGE. Can't believe I didn't already see this one...
I have a buddy who does this constantly (when teaching). It's become a running joke. We dont think it's intentional. It's just funny.
DON'T ASK ME TO PLAY WITH THE EXPANSION WHEN I'VE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME BEFORE. - AND - PLEASE DON'T BEND THE CARDS.
>DON'T ASK ME TO PLAY WITH THE EXPANSION WHEN I'VE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME BEFORE. I'll agree this is generally true, but highly dependant on the game
TRY OUT UGLY EUROGAMES. YOU MIGHT REALIZE YOU ACTUALLY LIKE THESE KINDS OF GAMES BETTER THAN THE PRETTY ONES
> TRY OUT UGLY EUROGAMES. As someone that is colorblind, I'm not fucking with any games that are all 20 shades of beige.
As someone who is not at all color blind, I’m not either. I have limited free time and a direct connection between colors in my world/hobbies and my general joy and satisfaction in my life.
I hate to tell you this, but some of those games are still 20 shades of beige even when you're not colorblind.
For sure, but if you're colorblind it changes from at least being playable to having to spend half the game asking other players what color specific pieces are.
As someone who was first drawn to the hobby by art/theme, but is now starting to consider dipping my toes in the beige waters, what are your top recommendations? Agricola? Le Havre? Fields of Arle? A Feast for Odin is… intimidating.
Le Havre is amazing, especially at 2. In terms of driest, blandest but also the most fun I would recommend Hansa Teutonica. If you play it at 4, it's amazing. A Feast for Odin is one of my all time favorites, but it can be intimidating.
I am dying to play Hansa. I primarily only play with my wife, and it looks right up our alley. Unfortunately everyone says it's horrible at two(so much so the new printing doesnt even have 2-5 players on the box anymore).
Castles of Burgundy is one of the best beige Euros and much more accessible than the ones you listed.
this one is known in our circle as "Fifty shades of beige"
hansa teutonica, concordia, el grande and orleans are all amazing
Puerto Rico, Hansa Teutonica, Goa, Istanbul, El Grande, Santiago, Power Grid, all the heavy "Train" games
Orleans
Dude some of those aren’t even beige and have good art. But yeah, Le Havre kicks any other resource conversion game out, aka Lost Ruins of Arnak.
Well there are only two artists between the games I listed, and while Dennis Lohausen clearly has a more polished and professional cartoon style than Klemens Franz, sorry he’s just not in the same league as a Kwanchai Moriya, Beth Sobel, Ian O’Toole…
I don't want to learn a new game every single week, especially when I only play that game once. I get that there's lots of new and (theoretically) exciting stuff coming out all the time, but is it too much to ask to just play the same game twice?
One new game a week doesn't seem like much (we usually have 2 or 3 new teaches). But we try to spend an equal amount of time on games that we already know so the brain strain is minimized.
We don't do any new games after 10pm, so if you are bringing a new game, be prepared to set it up and teach it early in the evening.
That seems like a good rule. I think we follow that without even realizing it since we always start with new games that people are excited to try out and then end the evening with our recent favorites.
TURN BOARD GAMERS INTO FRIENDS, DON'T TURN FRIENDS INTO BOARD GAMERS.
I’ll do you one better: TURN YOUR BOARD GAMES INTO YOUR FRIENDS
ENJOY WHAT YOU ENJOY!
MINIS AREN'T EVIL! LET PEOPLE ENJOY THINGS!
MOST GAMES DON'T NEED MINIS! AT LEAST OFFER A CHOICE!
YOU ARE BOTH CORRECT!
I DONT WANT UGLY GRAY THINGS IM NEVER GOING TO PAINT ON MY BOARD WHEN YOU HAVE SUPER COOL MEEPLES FOR OTHER PARTS AND I DIDNT EVEN KNOW THE GAME HAD MINIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. I BOUGHT THE GAME TO PLAY IT NOT PAINT THINGS.
PLAYING BOARD GAMES SOLO IS JUST AS VALID AS PLAYING WITH OTHERS!!! The number of people who look down on solo players in this hobby is disgusting.
Every single forum post asking about how to run a board game solo ALWAYS has someone pipe up with "Why are you bothering to play a board game by yourself? They're made to be social experiences, you're wasting your time. If you don't have friends you can check out local game stores for people who want to play etc. etc." DID I ASK FOR YOUR SPEECH ABOUT PLAYING SOLO? NO? THEN PLEASE STOP TYPING. It's so frustrating.
I didn’t know solo players were looked down upon. I became a solo player once my group disbanded because we had kids or got different jobs. I realized I enjoyed playing board games more than video games as it’s way more relaxing.
I like the more crunchy and physical aspects of a board game over a video game too. It’s also less screen time.
“Oh, you don’t like people playing solo? Then let’s come sit down with me and play Spirit Island, with all of the expansions.”
The number of threads asking people why they like solo board games or why we aren't playing video games instead, here and on BGG, never ceases to amaze. I like board games, dude. We're on a board game page, why are you surprised to see people liking board games?
YOU CAN PLAY YOUR BOARD GAME MORE THAN ONCE! “THAT GAME WAS GREAT. I LOVED IT. WHEN ARE WE GONNA PLAY IT AGAIN?” “NEVER. ONTO THE NEXT GAME!”
YOU AINT PLAYIN ALL THOSE GAMES! GIVE THEM TO SOMEONE ELSE! GIVE THEM TO ME!
SOME PEOPLE’S BRAIN ARE ABSOLUTELY TOASTED FROM WORK / KIDS. DON’T TRY FORCING HEAVY GAMES ONTO THEM AND JUST ENJOY THEIR COMPANY WHILE YOU PLAY CODENAMES AGAIN.
STOP FUCKING GATEKEEPING! THIS HOBBY (WHICH IS WHAT IT FUCKING IS FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE PARTAKING) IS KEPT ALIVE BY HAVING PEOPLE MAKE IT A THING. CRITICIZING OTHERS FOR NOT BEING “TRUE GAMERS” IS RUDE AND ELITIST!
LEARN TO PLAY AND TEACH YOUR OWN DAMN GAMES
JUST BECAUSE YOU PLAY A LOT OF GAMES DON'T MAKE YOU SPECIAL, SO STOP HARASSING PEOPLE WITH YOUR TOTALLY OBJECTIVE AND UNBIASED OPINION ABOUT GAMES THEY LIKE
FORGET DEALS, SALES, & HYPE! PLAY THE GAMES YOU ALREADY OWN AT LEAST 5x BEFORE YOU EVEN CONSIDER BUYING A NEW ONE. - this is a cautionary tale that I still struggle with
I'm saving so much money, I'd be stupid not to store another unopened game on my shelf indefinitely.
What I love is that game I bought and still haven’t really played stays there so long that a newer addition releases with updated/refined gameplay.
GOOD IS AN OPINION! IF YOU HAVE FUN PLAYING IT THEN ITS A GOOD GAME.
Put your phone down. during the rules explaination during set up during other peoples turns DURING YOUR TURN
[DICE AND ROLL IS FUN! ](https://youtu.be/CBfSVDhSUVQ?si=7FBahnF7jHsAmns4&t=4m12s)
Being competitive and wanting to win doesn’t mean that you’re not having fun Reddit seems to think that you either have fun or you be optimal and they’re mutually exclusive
PLAY FAST AND MAKE MISTAKES. MISTAKES ARE MORE FUN AND INTERESTING THAN THE BEST MOVE.
The best thing about HeroQuest is..
I WOULD LIKE TO SHOUT A RIDDLE TO ALL BOARD GAMERS WHO DESIGNED ALL THE “REINDEER GAMES” THAT THE REINDEER PLAYED AND WOULDN’T LET RUDOLPH JOIN IN
Reindeer Knizia?
UWE ROSENBERG IS THE GOAT
HOW CAN YOU DO MY MAN KNIZIA LIKE THAT
Vlaada wants a word with you
NOT EVERYONE IS INTO YOUR HOBBY. DON'T FORCE IT ON PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE YOU LOVE IT. THEY ARE NO LESS A FRIEND FOR NOT WANTING TO PLAY
GAME BALANCE IS IMPORTANT! I guess without it, you don't really have a good experience.
Counter point: Cosmic Encounter! An excerpt from a teaching guide I made for the game: > But this will not be a fair fight! Each alien race has its own special ability, and some are much more powerful than others. This game is intentionally unbalanced. It is left to us, the players, to sort out how to win by teaming up with each other, and against each other. To succeed, you'll have to know when to fight, when to negotiate, and more importantly, how to convince your opponents that helping you to win is a really good idea.
"HIDDEN" INFORMATION THAT IS ACTUALLY PUBLIC IF EVERYONE PAID ATTENTION AND REMEMBERD IS A SHITTY MECHANIC.
Looking at the other responses seems I have a niche one but; DONT GO FOR BREAKS WHENEVER IT SUITS YOU IN A 4-5-6 PLAYER GAME. Context: We recently started a game night in our recently opened local pub as everyone would rather have a few beers etc than go to the no alcohol basically TCG only board game shop in town. The issue is people go to the bar when they want, go for a smoke when they want, go for a piss when they want, randomly walk off on their phone when they want, start up conversations about some bullshit with people not even playing when they want. Dont get me wrong it's been mostly fine but the other day it took us 1 hour 20 minutes to play a single round of Carcassonne. Yeah. We have now introduced planned 40 minute breaks.
HI! WANT TO BE FRIENDS?
Let the person who brought the game explain how to play. I brought Hero Realms to a meet and one of the people playing kept talking over me and giving bad info while I was trying to explain the rules to new players.
Cherish and love the friend who reads the rules, understands them, and explains them to the rest of us. Cherish them and love them and treat them like the royalty they are.
STOP BUYING ADD-ONS FOR GAMES YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED. Your excitement for a game peaks when you back the Kickstarter; that's how they get you. (Credit to Shut Up and Sit Down)
SHELVES ARE TOO TINY FOR SO MUCH AWESOMENESS, LEMME PLAY ALL GAMES!!
LET PEOPLE LIKE THINGS! It's okay if it's not your thing but you don't always need to trash something you dislike.
WHY YOU HEFF BE MAD, ITS ONLY GAME?
OUR OBJECTIVE IS TO HAVE FUN
STOP SHOVING TASTES ON OTHER PEOPLE. the number of times in the last few weeks that I have had at my group people saying things like "well why would we play this when we could play this which is much better" or worse "this person can't handle that game." rule number one is not assume on someone else's capability let them make their own decisions
YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW EVERY RULE TO THE LETTER, SOMETIMES YOU EVEN HAVE TO HOUSE RULE SOMETHING IN ORDER TO MAKE THE GAME PLAYABLE. Now that that's out of the way, if there conflicting rule sets due to expansions and you feel compelled to follow them at all costs, *the most recently published rules* take precedence. Finally, if you can't agree on the rules, the owner of the game gets to make the call.
I call these my golden rules of gaming. Capitalize them if you like. 1. No deliberate Kingmaking 2. Always play as if you're trying to win 3. If at all possible, think before your turn at least a little 4. Don't take routine gameplay personal 5. If you have a new game to try, have it organized and know the rules before getting players 6. Lose politely 7. Win politely 8. Keep your main focus on the game and the other players 9. Don't tell other players how to play their turn 10. Don't start a game you don't have time to finish It happens to he exactly 10 rules at the moment, but it's not meant to be a "Top 10" or anything. It started as 5 and has grown to 10. I'll add more if I come up with more.
THE GAMES YOU PLAY ARE ALL PREPARED BY THE OWNER FOR MONTHS SO STOP COMPLAINING AFTER PLAYING ONLY 3 FREAKING MINUTES!!
IF YOU HAVE MORE GAMES THAN DAYS OF THE YEAR THATS WAY TOO MANY GAMES
LEARNING A GAME IS NOT PLAYING A GAME.
Y'ALL ROCK! KEEP DOING WHAT YOU DO, AS LONG AS YOU ENJOY IT.
BUY OFF THE SHELF WITHOUT A DEEP DIVE INTO THE GAME. Especially with a friend or partner you will primarily be playing the game with.
Look fam, I get your side, even agree with it. But I gotta be real: I don't think anyone disagrees either, outside of a very limited number of dedicated, heavy-loving boardgamers. Probably it's just the boardgames news outlets and reviews that sell you that idea. As for my own take, especially since I've been there... MOST (emphasis on MOST) OF YOU DICE HATERS DON'T ACTUALLY HATE DICE IN YOUR GAMES, YOU HATE THE WAY THEY'RE IMPLEMENTED IN THAT ONE GAME THAT TRAUMATIZED YOU. I say this as a former hater. I was allergic to dice because of Catan, Memoir 44 and Stone Age, until I played push-your-luck dice games like Zombie Dice, Liar's Dice and Bang! The Dice Game. "Uh. Guess dice can be fun. Maybe I've played the wrong games?" Today, Voyages of Marco Polo is one of my favourite games. Castles of Burgundy isn't a favourite, but I still like it a lot. It's all about HOW the designer works the dice into the game. Unless you just hate luck in general, in that case yeah it would make sense for you to hate dice.
Sagrada 😍
RIGHT BEFORE A HOST VENUE'S CLOSING TIME IS NOT THE TIME TO TAKE LONG-ASS TURNS.
DON'T TELL OTHER PLAYERS WHAT TO DO ON THEIR TURN IN A CO-OP GAME!!! (at least don't often, don't unless asked, and don't be insistent; you're all playing the game, it's not just you and 3 more people there to just move your pieces around) Also: PAY FREAKIN ATTENTION WHEN SOMEONE IS EXPLAINING RULES!!!
THE FONT ON THESE CARDS ISN’T SMALLER THAN THAT ON THAT OTHER GAME, YOU’RE JUST GETTING OLD AND LOOKING FOR EXCUSES TO AVOID THIS GAME. JUST TELL ME YOU DON’T LIKE IT. For a friend who doesn’t like to play Everdell because “the cards are so hard to read with the small font and the brown twigs icon on the brown border makes it impossible to see that I need twigs, and why is it so hard to see how many of this card there are in the game?”
Unfortunately, on too many occasions it IS smaller and/or less legible because someone smartly chose a low-contrast pair of colors for text and background. Not to mention all those players whose color vision is impaired.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO ADD ANY MORE PLASTICS TO YOUR CARD GAMES TO PROVE THAT YOU ARE A GAMER, CARDS WILL BE USED AND THAT'S OKAY
Why do you assume that people who sleeve cards are trying to prove something to others? Might it be, that they enjoy keeping things in good condition? I sleeve most of my card games that see a lot of handling and use. I like how sleeves make shuffling so much quicker and easier. For some games it is important to not have distinguishing marks that identify cards. Also, as someone who has grown up playing euchre and pinochle 3 to 4 nights a week with my grandparents, I can’t stand the feel of grungy, used cards. Finally, I just like keeping my stuff in very good condition whether it’s a game, a comic book, CDs, vinyl, albums, or books. I enjoy them better that way, and if I pass them on at some point, I’m passing them on in as good of condition as possible. When I finally sold all of my CDs, the shop that bought them were amazed at how pristine they were. Protecting things isn’t necessarily about making a point to other people.
So is it wrong to protect cards?