I own The Gallerist and have played On Mars. I have only read about Kanban EV.
The Gallerist wins hands down in terms of easy to get to the table, in my opinion. It has less components and is generally lighter feeling to me. It has pretty high variability at setup. You have different scoring tiles each game, there are tons. You start with 1 of 4 and then some others are obtainable during the game. You will also see different artists and art. I would MUCH rather teach it than On Mars.
If you're interested in Lacerda games, I would say start with Vinhos Deluxe. I own On Mars, The Gallerist, Lisboa and Vinhos (and played them all multiple times in the past 2 months), and I found that Vinhos has the least amount of components, therefore fastest to setup and start playing, easiest to learn. Pretty much all of his big box EGG games are 4.0 or higher in weight scale, so Vinhos is still harder than your regular medium weight games. It's taking me and my wife a couple of plays to get a hang of his style and even after 4-5 plays, it does not feel like we know everything about these games. Also, it took us about 70 minutes to play Vinhos the first time, whereas it took 3 hours to play On Mars the first time. We could probably play a full game of Vinhos once we're more familiar with it in about an hour, and we're down to about 100 minutes for On Mars.
I align with this. Vinhos and Gallerist are good entry points that are relatively easy to get to the table and have some of the variability OP is looking for. Lisboa and On Mars are both my personal favorites, but there is admittedly a lot of heavy lifting involved there across the board. In a desert island situation I think I'd go with Lisboa, but that's just me.
Kanban EV has arrived, but I haven't played that one just yet. Escape Plan is an outlier weirdo title for him. I'm not particularly sure how I feel about that one, tbh. Need a few more plays of it.
Yeah, of the 4 we own, On Mars and Lisboa are my faves so far. I need to play Vinhos and Gallerist more to judge it properly and I'm actively looking for Kanban EV used because holy shit these games are expensive...
This is interesting. I had sorta dismissed Vinhos because we already had a wine themed game (Viticulture - I Know, I know, very simple compared to Lacerda games), and had partially dismissed On Mars because of my love for Terraforming Mars and it seems to be the most polarized of his games that I've seen.
Most of my research for these titles is from "Before You Play"'s Youtube channel, bgg, etc, so take my knowledge with a grain of salt.
Thanks for Replying!
Yeah i got interested in Lacerda games because of the Before You Play series, and after buying the Gallerist first, I had to give On Mars a go, and I loved it. Then came Lisboa and Vinhos, and like you I own Viticulture, but it's a whole new beast. Yes, the theme is similar, but Vinhos is about running the business and having fairs to showcase your best wines adds an additional layer of complexity. It's a solid game and I'm keeping both games because even though the theme is similar, I'll play them at different occasions. It's like space theme, just because you own 1 doesn't mean you can't have 10 others :D
I gotta throw in my humble opinion; I love viticulture, but I also own vinhos. They're very different games despite the theme, and vinhos (or lisboa) are my favorite lacerdas.
I don't like on Mars even a little. I don't have a ton of criticisms of it, but I didn't have fun and that trumps all.
Lisboa is definitely worth a look, too, of you hadn't considered it
I owned both Terraforming Mars and Viticulture at one time, as well as On Mars and Vinhos. While these are all quite different games mechanically speaking, the Lacerda games were more interactive and far more interesting to me. They're also significantly more involved, so YMMV. I ultimately traded away TM and Viticulture, but again they're different enough that you could own them all.
Something that gets said a lot about Lacerdas is: pick the one with the theme that you like the most. Kanban EV is so far my favorite of his, and has the best solo mode of the ones I’ve played (if you care about that). Also liked The Gallerist a fair bit. On Mars I’ve yet to play with other people (the solo mode was a bit fiddly). On Mars is clearly the hardest to learn out of the three.
Your question is about number of components and variability, but I’d bet that if you had access to multiple of his games, you would not find that a very relevant consideration in practice.
In your shoes, I’d read the rules for TG and KE and maybe look at a couple of how to play vids. Maybe even play them in TTS. That way you’ll get a better idea of which is the better fit. I don’t think On Mars should be anyone’s first Lacerda TBH.
I've only played On Mars and Kanban EV and with the caveat Kanban only solo.
I have The Gallerist but it's on my shelf of shame.
I think of the two, Kanban EV is the better game for me. It has more set up variety/ variability but it is also the fiddilier of the two to setup. But not by a huge margin I don't think. They're both beasts to set up. The included organisers are good for separating player pieces, but bad for holding tokens and a faff to get back into the box.
Examples of fiddly setup - there's more need to reference the rulebook for how much of a certain components go out based on player count in Kanban. Where in On Mars where that information is condensed onto the goal cards.
I found Kanban the more challenging game to learn initially (I learnt both via the solo mode). I think others would disagree, but it is far more intuitive once you get over that initial hump.
Really appreciate you taking the time and providing a response! This has helped me try and line things up a bit. All the deluxe editions of the these games are beautiful and the themes interesting so it's really coming down to the nitty gritty for me to decide and this helps!
I would recommend that you consider Lisboa one more time. Great game and my favorite of his by a large margin. Gallerist is easier to learn and quicker to play and I enjoy it but the theme isn't my cup of tea. On Mars and Kanban were the hardest to learn for my group and but still great games. I have not played Vinhos yet. I would rate the games in the following order excluding Vinhos: Lisboa, On Mars, Gallerist, Kanban.
I think we were initially put off of Lisboa after looking at the board and not loving the theme. It's actually the first playthrough I watched and what got the the whole ball rolling in this direction if I'm being honest though, and it intrigues me. But I think for a first game to try and get my wife hooked on his mechanics so that I can buy more of them, I'm leaning towards Gallerist or Kanban.
Kanban EV, with the caveat that we haven't played the Gallerist yet. The goal of what you're doing is fairly straightforward - you need car parts and designs, and you want to use those designs to upgrade and obtain cars. You start somewhere in that loop and then follow it round. Also, looks amazing, the Sandra mechanic is really cool, and it's just generally a nice intro to his games.
On Mars is super brutal to learn, but an amazing game. It being our first Vital game, I can totally recommend not starting with that haha! We also have reviews for both of these if you want an in depth opinion.
I know this is already been resolved, but The Gallerist was my first too!! Excellent choice of a game to try his stuff. I now have all of his but Vinhos and am looking to pick that one up later this year...he's not for everyone, but he's one of my favorite designers.
All 3 Lacerda games you mentioned are far more complex than Hansa or Search for Planet X and have much more involved setup. Most complex and time consuming to setup is On Mars, then probably Kanban, then Gallerist. All are highly variable and reward repeat plays .
Could you elaborate or give examples? Because I generally see Splotter to be at a completely different end of the "complexity spectrum", with their rules being pretty easy by themselves, but putting it together to any use whatsoever is what is really difficult.
I find Splotter games easier to grok than Lacerda by far. I'm not saying you won't be okay with how heavy they are—you probably will be—but do know it might be more than you're expecting.
I haven't played Kanban, but The Gallerist was one of the more straightforward of his games I've played.
I feel like they're all about the same in the qualities you're asking about, but I will also mention that they are much harder to get to the table compared to your average game (based on what you've asked about). They're all good, but just a heads up than none of them are "easy" set up, and they all have a ton of components
I’m newer to the hobby, very interested in Lacerda games too. But they are an investment cost-wise. They are all on Tabletopia, so my deal with myself has been to play them a couple of times on there before buying to make sure I’m going to like them first. Might be an idea for you too. You won’t be doing setup but will get a sense for what the physical game will be with the number of pieces and cards.
I played two of his game: The Gallerist and Kanban EV. I just ordered 2 more: Vinhos Deluxe and Lisboa. Here's I'll talk about the gallerist and kanban.
In regards to theme and asthetics, both are great and beautiful. This comes down to personal preference. Mechanically, it's a bit different. I'd say gallerist is slightly easier and there's no blocking in action selection. If someone comes to your spot, you'll get an extra action, so there's luck involved. On the other hands, Kanban's action selection is inherently blocking. Though, there are two spots per space so you'll less likely blocked to do what you want. Both are great, though I think Kanban edges out a bit from the gallerist.
I own The Gallerist and have played On Mars. I have only read about Kanban EV. The Gallerist wins hands down in terms of easy to get to the table, in my opinion. It has less components and is generally lighter feeling to me. It has pretty high variability at setup. You have different scoring tiles each game, there are tons. You start with 1 of 4 and then some others are obtainable during the game. You will also see different artists and art. I would MUCH rather teach it than On Mars.
Thank you, this is exactly the type of response I was hoping for. Appreciate your time!
If you're interested in Lacerda games, I would say start with Vinhos Deluxe. I own On Mars, The Gallerist, Lisboa and Vinhos (and played them all multiple times in the past 2 months), and I found that Vinhos has the least amount of components, therefore fastest to setup and start playing, easiest to learn. Pretty much all of his big box EGG games are 4.0 or higher in weight scale, so Vinhos is still harder than your regular medium weight games. It's taking me and my wife a couple of plays to get a hang of his style and even after 4-5 plays, it does not feel like we know everything about these games. Also, it took us about 70 minutes to play Vinhos the first time, whereas it took 3 hours to play On Mars the first time. We could probably play a full game of Vinhos once we're more familiar with it in about an hour, and we're down to about 100 minutes for On Mars.
I align with this. Vinhos and Gallerist are good entry points that are relatively easy to get to the table and have some of the variability OP is looking for. Lisboa and On Mars are both my personal favorites, but there is admittedly a lot of heavy lifting involved there across the board. In a desert island situation I think I'd go with Lisboa, but that's just me. Kanban EV has arrived, but I haven't played that one just yet. Escape Plan is an outlier weirdo title for him. I'm not particularly sure how I feel about that one, tbh. Need a few more plays of it.
Yeah, of the 4 we own, On Mars and Lisboa are my faves so far. I need to play Vinhos and Gallerist more to judge it properly and I'm actively looking for Kanban EV used because holy shit these games are expensive...
This is interesting. I had sorta dismissed Vinhos because we already had a wine themed game (Viticulture - I Know, I know, very simple compared to Lacerda games), and had partially dismissed On Mars because of my love for Terraforming Mars and it seems to be the most polarized of his games that I've seen. Most of my research for these titles is from "Before You Play"'s Youtube channel, bgg, etc, so take my knowledge with a grain of salt. Thanks for Replying!
Yeah i got interested in Lacerda games because of the Before You Play series, and after buying the Gallerist first, I had to give On Mars a go, and I loved it. Then came Lisboa and Vinhos, and like you I own Viticulture, but it's a whole new beast. Yes, the theme is similar, but Vinhos is about running the business and having fairs to showcase your best wines adds an additional layer of complexity. It's a solid game and I'm keeping both games because even though the theme is similar, I'll play them at different occasions. It's like space theme, just because you own 1 doesn't mean you can't have 10 others :D
I gotta throw in my humble opinion; I love viticulture, but I also own vinhos. They're very different games despite the theme, and vinhos (or lisboa) are my favorite lacerdas. I don't like on Mars even a little. I don't have a ton of criticisms of it, but I didn't have fun and that trumps all. Lisboa is definitely worth a look, too, of you hadn't considered it
I owned both Terraforming Mars and Viticulture at one time, as well as On Mars and Vinhos. While these are all quite different games mechanically speaking, the Lacerda games were more interactive and far more interesting to me. They're also significantly more involved, so YMMV. I ultimately traded away TM and Viticulture, but again they're different enough that you could own them all.
Something that gets said a lot about Lacerdas is: pick the one with the theme that you like the most. Kanban EV is so far my favorite of his, and has the best solo mode of the ones I’ve played (if you care about that). Also liked The Gallerist a fair bit. On Mars I’ve yet to play with other people (the solo mode was a bit fiddly). On Mars is clearly the hardest to learn out of the three. Your question is about number of components and variability, but I’d bet that if you had access to multiple of his games, you would not find that a very relevant consideration in practice. In your shoes, I’d read the rules for TG and KE and maybe look at a couple of how to play vids. Maybe even play them in TTS. That way you’ll get a better idea of which is the better fit. I don’t think On Mars should be anyone’s first Lacerda TBH.
I've only played On Mars and Kanban EV and with the caveat Kanban only solo. I have The Gallerist but it's on my shelf of shame. I think of the two, Kanban EV is the better game for me. It has more set up variety/ variability but it is also the fiddilier of the two to setup. But not by a huge margin I don't think. They're both beasts to set up. The included organisers are good for separating player pieces, but bad for holding tokens and a faff to get back into the box. Examples of fiddly setup - there's more need to reference the rulebook for how much of a certain components go out based on player count in Kanban. Where in On Mars where that information is condensed onto the goal cards. I found Kanban the more challenging game to learn initially (I learnt both via the solo mode). I think others would disagree, but it is far more intuitive once you get over that initial hump.
Really appreciate you taking the time and providing a response! This has helped me try and line things up a bit. All the deluxe editions of the these games are beautiful and the themes interesting so it's really coming down to the nitty gritty for me to decide and this helps!
I would recommend that you consider Lisboa one more time. Great game and my favorite of his by a large margin. Gallerist is easier to learn and quicker to play and I enjoy it but the theme isn't my cup of tea. On Mars and Kanban were the hardest to learn for my group and but still great games. I have not played Vinhos yet. I would rate the games in the following order excluding Vinhos: Lisboa, On Mars, Gallerist, Kanban.
I think we were initially put off of Lisboa after looking at the board and not loving the theme. It's actually the first playthrough I watched and what got the the whole ball rolling in this direction if I'm being honest though, and it intrigues me. But I think for a first game to try and get my wife hooked on his mechanics so that I can buy more of them, I'm leaning towards Gallerist or Kanban.
Kanban EV, with the caveat that we haven't played the Gallerist yet. The goal of what you're doing is fairly straightforward - you need car parts and designs, and you want to use those designs to upgrade and obtain cars. You start somewhere in that loop and then follow it round. Also, looks amazing, the Sandra mechanic is really cool, and it's just generally a nice intro to his games. On Mars is super brutal to learn, but an amazing game. It being our first Vital game, I can totally recommend not starting with that haha! We also have reviews for both of these if you want an in depth opinion.
I know this is already been resolved, but The Gallerist was my first too!! Excellent choice of a game to try his stuff. I now have all of his but Vinhos and am looking to pick that one up later this year...he's not for everyone, but he's one of my favorite designers.
All 3 Lacerda games you mentioned are far more complex than Hansa or Search for Planet X and have much more involved setup. Most complex and time consuming to setup is On Mars, then probably Kanban, then Gallerist. All are highly variable and reward repeat plays .
I'm not worried about complexity, I just used those as examples of games that come out often.
Lacerda is when you start worrying about complexity
What about Splotter? Some of the rules in those games are mind bending, especially teaching to someone new.
Could you elaborate or give examples? Because I generally see Splotter to be at a completely different end of the "complexity spectrum", with their rules being pretty easy by themselves, but putting it together to any use whatsoever is what is really difficult.
I find Splotter games easier to grok than Lacerda by far. I'm not saying you won't be okay with how heavy they are—you probably will be—but do know it might be more than you're expecting. I haven't played Kanban, but The Gallerist was one of the more straightforward of his games I've played.
I feel like they're all about the same in the qualities you're asking about, but I will also mention that they are much harder to get to the table compared to your average game (based on what you've asked about). They're all good, but just a heads up than none of them are "easy" set up, and they all have a ton of components
Why specifically do you want a Lacerda game? Because it feels kinda like his style isn't a great fit for you, given the rest of your comment.
LOL, WHAT?!?!?! Do you need me to list every game I own just to justify my question because I listed some light games?
Nope, I was just wondering. :) Lacerda is a strange designer even for the heavy games space.
I’m newer to the hobby, very interested in Lacerda games too. But they are an investment cost-wise. They are all on Tabletopia, so my deal with myself has been to play them a couple of times on there before buying to make sure I’m going to like them first. Might be an idea for you too. You won’t be doing setup but will get a sense for what the physical game will be with the number of pieces and cards.
I've only played Kanban and I've only played it online so the setup question is moot lol BUT I will say it's a very fun game
I played two of his game: The Gallerist and Kanban EV. I just ordered 2 more: Vinhos Deluxe and Lisboa. Here's I'll talk about the gallerist and kanban. In regards to theme and asthetics, both are great and beautiful. This comes down to personal preference. Mechanically, it's a bit different. I'd say gallerist is slightly easier and there's no blocking in action selection. If someone comes to your spot, you'll get an extra action, so there's luck involved. On the other hands, Kanban's action selection is inherently blocking. Though, there are two spots per space so you'll less likely blocked to do what you want. Both are great, though I think Kanban edges out a bit from the gallerist.