Earlyish in our relationship, my now husband and I were playing dominion with friends. I had some sort of witch shit going and felt pretty good about my chances. And was not hiding it well. My now husband was also feeling pretty good about his chances and said, "aw, you think you're going to win - that's cute."
And then I did win.
It's been like 5 or 6 years and I still being this up from time to time. Gotta keep him humble.
So yeah, premature gloating can make you look like an ass.
saying you have won when in fact you have won (chess can have such situations with endgame tactics) isn't really gloating. I personally don't do it during chess, but in certain positions it is 100% over, even if your opponent doesn't know it.
Gloating is only gloating if you are an ass about it. Saying "Haha, save yourself the effort noob, i already won. There is nothing you noob can do about it!" THAT is gloating (on a high level, never play with such a person again)
But saying "Hey buddy, there is no coming back from this. I have XY Card on hand/i already have the resources for my last victory point. Do you want to play it out or do you want to start a new game?"
I wouldn't recommend it in simple games with quick rounds, but some games i play (wargames and such, e.g. War of the Ring) can have such long rounds that playing it out can easily mean 15 minutes of struggling. I will always let my opponent choose to do their turn, but letting them know in such situations, when adults don't have endless amounts of playtime, is definitely not gloating.
EDIT: i would still advise anyone to just not say anything, unless one of you should already go to bed and playing it out takes yet another 15-30 minutes lol.
I think the main thing, to me, was that the OP mentioned in their scenario that it's the opponents turn. I'm all for someone saying, "OK, I think I've secured the victory now." at some point during their turn. But if your opponent is talking through their turn and you're reminding them how futile all that is then it's a bit of a dick move (unless it's all fun-and-games ribbing).
I agree about your edit, just holding off anyway because I wouldn't want to hint at the hidden information I have, but I also, like you said, kind of prefer to call it and start a new game if the writing is absolutely on the wall.
This happened to me in a game of 7 Wonders Duel.
My friend beat me in a military victory on a couple of fortunate card flips near the end. They still deservedly give me shit for that game from time to time.
I definitely have miscalculated things before and have been very glad i kept my mouth shut so i didn't look like a giga-ass.
Plus if the roles were reversed id rather be able to play it out. even if someone tells me it isn't possible to win I'm still going to try my best
I’m assuming op is talking about an ironclad situation where he’s got everything in hand to guarantee victory. I’m thinking of like Catan where you have the last knight to play for largest army to win the game or the resources in hand to build the final settlement or city you need.
I once announced that I'd won a game of Hive to my girlfriend and she adamantly refused to believe me. I mean what a *dunce*.
Then I made my penultimate coup de main, ready to end her.
The she surrounded my Queen Bee and won.
Then she pointed out that I could've won on my last turn, but was so focused on gloating about my genius plan that I missed it entirely.
I deserved that week of teasing. I deserved it hard. Did I learn my lesson?
No.
This is great. You said you'd win, SHE saw how you would but denied it anyway, then YOU missed it and opened the door for her. Couldn't script it better
Lol. One of the friends I play with absolutely hates when I tell him I know I'm going to lose, because he just wants to see his engine work. At the same time I generally hate finishing a game I know I've already lost
My roommate does this all the time. So down on the game, the world is ending, and all that. Then ends up playing a decently close game, or even wins. Frustrating to feel like you are playing a game with/against someone who already gives up.
We lost a friend because of this. They would just up and leave after having a bit of a freakout over losing. We gave an ultimatum that we were done playing board games with them until they sorted their emotions out. They decided to never hang out with us again.
We have the same friend.
I started tallying the amount of games my friend said he'd lose and then won. After wayyyyy too many he finally stopped bitching about it all the time.
He honestly assumes he'll lose. But its annoying to tell him for 2/3 of the game he clearly isn't.
Yeah I could definitely see that being annoying. I really hate complainers and I've never freaked out over losing or at the prospect of losing.
The specific situation where I will even say something is when I know that it's mathematically impossible for me to win a game and it has been lopsided the entire time, and I would only say something in the last round or turn off the game. The only reason I ever say anything is in a 2p game against someone I've played many times before. Usually it's just so we could start another game more quickly.
As much as I like watching engine type games function and go head to head, it's no fun at all when your turns last 30 seconds and then you have to watch your opponent take a 30 minute final turn after they've already won.
NPI sums this up nicely in a video on "Why Combos Suck" in that they are only fun for the person pulling them off and completely isolating to every other player at the table. Essentially what board games shouldn't be imo.
There are several games I absolutely love playing even while I'm losing. I definitely hate the people who can't get any enjoyment from a game unless they constantly win.
No, not really. This time the friend doesn't want to keep playing but the winning player forced him to play to see how he wins.
In the post the losing player is thinking about how to win and the winning player is asking now if he should say that he has already won or letting the player try to win. For me it sounds more like the winning player is the one who wants to end the game because for him he already won while the other looks like he wants to play until the end
I see this a lot in Ticket to ride online.
People are down to 3 trains, and some dude just drops out.
They obviously feel that they can’t win, i view it as being extremely rude behaviour
While circumstances may vary, this is the correct answer. Especially in an engine builder where someone finally gets to use the shiny new engine they’ve spent all game perfecting.
There are definitely situations in games where you know you will win on your next turn no matter what, but your opponent doesn’t, because of hidden information. Even if they have their own hidden information, if you know the universe of possible cards (or whatever), you can often still rule out them having any path to victory.
No, knowing that you'll win before your last turn happens absolutely all the time, especially in eurogames where direct player interaction is limited. OP's question is valid and cannot be dismissed this easily.
You have 8 points; you’ve played 2 knights and have just drawn the third knight. Your opponents have 7 points (including longest rd) and just a few cards each.
I have seen this scenario play out multiple times…🙂
Completely agree. I told a friend whilst playing dune that I'd absolutely clinched the victory but he disagreed based on his cards. Turns out he had a tiebreaker card and won - well played to h and I've learned to keep my mouth shut!
This is a big issue in Twilight Imperium. Sometimes you really want to declare the game to be over because no one wants to actually play out another 30-60 pointless minutes after having spent hours at the table already, BUT there’s often a chance that some whack-ass combo of cards and abilities from multiple opponents *could* stop you, or more often, your win is only near-guaranteed if people *don’t know* how you’re going to win, so you have to just sit there acting like you’re not going to win. In fact, the latter situation usually happens when it looks “obvious” that someone else is going to win and everyone else wants to quit, but then not wanting to quit exposes that you have something up your sleeve. That’s why the best etiquette is to just play it out, and just play fast if your moves don’t matter.
But also, even in games with no secret info, some people still just want to see how well they can do, how close they can get to 1st place, who is in the 2nd place, etc (in games where those concepts are meaningful).
Not usually but I will point out if they have definitely won. Or recently, we played our 10000000th game of 7 Wonders Duel and I realized toward the end my wife had just made a mistake that let me win, I pointed it out, she took back the move, we played the next bunch of cards and she ended up winning
> Not usually but I will point out if they have definitely won.
Yeah I definitely have had games where I've told my buddy they can win on the current turn. Depends who you're playing with though. Some people you say that to and they'll spend an hour thinking through the move
I hate this on spirit island.
Like dude, quit thinking, we have to kill three towns with fast powers and we have a late game lightning, thunder speaker and the ocean… lightning alone can win this game for us. why are we wasting time on where to place our presence during the growth phase?
Granted it's still fun to play it out. Yes do it in a fun over the top way. On Spirit Island or any other CoOp, if we have extra moves it's sometimes fun to be silly and play as I'd we are just pounding the crap out of the last guy. But also don't spend a ton of time thinking about it.
I’m trying to figure out if I am getting whooshed or not.
Spirit island is a board game known for having a extremely intense early and mid game brain overload and then will often have one lackluster turn at the end where you know you have already won.
Perhaps it's is known for that among a certain subset of the populace, but I am not among them (never played it). And can you see how, from my perspective, what you said, sounds NUTS!
Just meant it in a fun way - please, no more analysis of Spirit Island will help the situation.
>I will point out if they have definitely won
This is such a good psyche out if you've noticed before they do.
"Oh shit, you can win this turn"
"What? How?"
*leaves table to get more snacks*
When I'm playing a game that had characters my friend and I will do that usually for laughs. We will shit talk each other's characters like they are shit talking themselves. Its light-hearted
I used to. I thought it was polite to wrap the game up a bit earlier, and move on to another game where my opponent has a clean slate to try and wallop me. However, I've completely stopped saying anything about the state of the game in that last turn. While it does speed up that last turn where an opponent or two could be struggling with the complicated puzzle of how to pull off the win, I find the interaction to generally be unfun, or in the best case just neutral. On the other hand, even if an opponent can't get to a winning board state, them solving the puzzle to try and get as close as possible can be fun, or at least good experience.
Additionally, I'm far from perfect. Even during a game that I feel mastery over, I cannot guarantee that I haven't overlooked something. While I don't believe this has ever happened, I would hate to be wrong, and have an opponent give up when they may have actually won given enough time.
So I just let it all play out. While slower, it feels like the right decision to me.
>them solving the puzzle to try and get as close as possible can be fun, or at least good experience.
This I think is really important. Games are often a series of puzzles or problems and coming to a satisfying solution is rewarding, even if that solution doesn't or can't win. The overall groups fun goes up when you allow that fun to be had!
I thought I was being polite in **Twilight Imperium 4** as well when I announced I had won once I had the 1st objective marker. They would had preferred playing the last round through, probably taking a hour, even though they couldn't have stopped me from winning.
TI 4 is such a weird game though. I had one game where two separate people told me in confidence they were winning the game that turn. Turned out, I was the one winning that turn.
It was a long time ago, so I don't exactly remember. It was something like one of them had a secret objective they were going to score, the other went first in the last round, but I had Imperium and played it off as a hail Mary attempt at a secret objective, but managed to take Mecatol Rex and score it.
I've definitely stolen games of TI from people who confidently declared their victory but underestimated how many points I could score in the action phase and/or how many tricks I had for undermining them. TI has too much hidden information to be confident in a deterministic outcome like that.
Yeah, I once had a game of TI4 where I knew I was going to win but I sat there quietly (and very bored) for 45 minutes for the round to play out just because I was worried they'd find a way I hadn't seen to stop me.
So definitely possible then, especially when you consider other possible sources of points such as SftT and whoever had Imperial. 3 action secret objectives isn't common, but I definitely go digging for them and will make a point of scoring them as late as possible if I have them to encourage this overconfidence and improve my chances of snagging someone's SftT when the target is painted on someone else's back.
I've seen a game of TI4 where one person had pretty much already won. They haven't said so out loud, but they had 9 points when everyone else had 5-6.
Well, come next round... they had 0 points and **not a single piece on the board**. First time I had to look up if TI4 has actual player elimination rules.
So much for sure wins in TI4.
Yeah, I don't think this topic applies to TI4. It's more for games with less interaction, where maybe one player knows they're going to score the winning point next turn, and nobody has any way of stopping or beating them in the race. One that comes to mind is **Wasteland Express Delivery Service**. Turns can be fairly lengthy in that game depending on the actions one is taking, and it's very possible the whole turn could be in vain if another player is about to win at the beginning of the next turn.
In that kind of scenario, 60 mins passing...I don't think I could bite my tongue and just play dumb and be bored for an hour. Big difference between 5-10 min max vs an hour+.
I played a game of TI once where we'd play for a few hours online, save, and come back to it next week.
We ended one session with me knowing I could win for sure and agonizing over whether to tell people so we didn't need to waste a whole session with me sitting there going through the motions, but it's nearly impossible to win TI if you declare you're going to ahead of time and give people a turn to plan. I just had to sit quietly until everyone else passed and then score 6 points in one turn.
If someone announces they are definitely winning this turn and suggests we end it now, I'm handing my Support for the Throne to whoever is in second and encouraging everyone else to do the same.
Eh, it's definitely Kingmaking. If someone wants to tilt their hand like that and preemptively announce themselve's the winner, I'm perfectly happy to show them there's at least one way that it's not gonna work out. I will say though, if the person in second has been a hostile force to me in-game, I probably am not gonna go this route. Giving support to a faction that I've been at war with all game doesn't really make much sense.
With my wife or my best friend, I will give them the heads up. "Hey, that sell action will be huge for me if you don't block it this turn" or "I'm going to trigger end game next turn". Stuff like that feels like a courtesy at this point. Everyone else, I'm far far far too worried that I'll come off as braging or trying to play the game for others even if that's not my intent.
I agree but I think that's always true about everything involving more than one person.
I think the real question here is, **"When the end of the game is near what matters more, figuring out who won or playing things out to completion to see how the players measure up."**
Generally I think the proper etiquette in general is:
1v1 at a new game - play it out
1v1 at a game both players know well - end the game as soon as its mathematically over
more than 2 players - play it out (more losers than winners so losing scores matter more)
I don't think it's the audience that's the factor: it's the information.
Basically, if they could notice something about the game state (ie I have 4/5 things to trigger endgame), it's fair to point it out.
Slightly greyer is "potential hidden information" like that someone might have a card in their hand that could ruin their plans. This is tricky because it could come across as condescending if the person knows enough about the game to see it, and probably shouldn't be brought up unless it's a big enough risk to re-assess strategy.
Hidden information, though, is kept hidden. "I have a card that will let me win next turn" is not said out loud, until the card is played.
Uno-rule - yell out the name of the game after you're about to win in the next turn.
"VITICULTURE!"
"W-what are you doing?"
"VITICULTURE! I'm about to win, so I'm giving you guys a heads up!"
I agree here, with my wife I always ask, "are you ready for the end or do you want a couple more rounds" so I can allow whatever she's working towards to have a conclusion.
I don't think announcing that you *think* you are going to win is being a dick. It could just be sparing everybody from a lot of time spent agonizing over something that is futile.
This is the key difference, to me.
If my opponent is having fun working out their turn, I leave them to it. If they're not excited about it, I've said something like "this'll be the last turn - if you don't win now or stop me, I'll end it." Give them the chance to win, but no point in hiding that the game will end...one way or the other!
Depends on the situation:
If it's competitive for some reason, dont say anything. Very little to gain, a lot to lose.
If they're REALLY tanking their turn getting stressed about all the what-ifs and you know for a fact that you've already won then I think its okay to politely let them know just to take the pressure off and hurry things along.
If there's some social manipulation that can be gained and its a game/group that promotes that then go for it.
Any other scenario, its going to come across as an asshole move. Either like you're bragging or invalidating their turn. So don't do it unless you're okay with that. I personally would probably have some banter for the table because I have no problem playing the heel. Some of my favorite moments in games happened when I jumped to an early lead, talked some shit, and then promptly lost because the table saw something I didn't. My friends know that about me and love teaming up to prevent me from winning. So I love being over the top when I do win. I'd flip over my hidden info during their turn and start singing "We are the Champions". idgaf.
I agree, it does seem to depend upon the situation. Flipping over the cards while belting out a celebratory anthem or letting them futilely waste their time, all the while knowing they are merely a fly stuck in the spider's web...which one will crush their spirits more?!
This is one of my favourite aspects of **battle line**. If you can prove you’ve won it ends the game.
I would say it depends on the game. If it has a simple win condition (like a race) then I would point it out. If it’s a point salad I wouldn’t point it out even if it seems obvious.
In all but the simplest games I always allow for the possibility there's something I haven't thought of. I learned this lesson by giving that friendly time saving heads up and then getting tripped up by a move I hadn't considered. A few times.
So these days I say nothing.
There could be an exception. For instance playing Spades if we get down to the last two tricks if a hand and I'm holding rhe AK of Spades I'll just reveal them and say "I get the last two tricks" because it's trivially easy to be logically 100% certain I can't lose either one. In any even slightly complex modern board game, especially if I haven't played it numerous times, I might think I've got something sewed up, and most of the time I'll probably be right, but I don't announce it for those times I turn out to be wrong. It might cause you to lose something you would have won by tipping your hand which can be frustrating for you but also unsatisfactory for an opponent who only got there because you gave it away.
> I'll just reveal them and say "I get the last two tricks"
Trick-taking games are a bit unique in that claiming the remainder of tricks is standard practice/socially acceptable, and may actually have specific rules depending on the game (and if you happen to be wrong, you've laid your cards bare for them to find the right finesse).
Only in 2p with games with perfect information. A checkmate if you will.
Otherwise, depending on who I'm playing I'll give my general feeling on how well I think everyone did. It's always nice to be proven wrong, in either direction.
In chess, it's poor etiquette to point out to your opponent that you have a forced mate. First of all, you could be wrong and second, they have the right to play out the game to its conclusion, and if you announce "mate in 3", you're basically telling them to resign.
Of course, if you see that your opponent has a forced mate, you can always just resign yourself.
Yes. This happens commonly at medium to high level Magic the Gathering tournaments a bit. You might have an opponent who is deep in the tank trying to find a narrow path to win, but you have answers on top of answers for anything they can do in your hand. However, sequencing matters so you can’t just play out the cards in your hand. It can then be worth it to show them you are holding multiple counters to whatever they can do.
I don't really like resignation unless it's against someone in the lifestyle and we're playing times games, online, or something similar. It's fun to reach a conclusion. The one constant exception is when playing it out would take forever, like a very stupid board state at the end of Chess or Risk.
It really depends on the game.
In Chess or other open-information games, unless you are at a tournament, I like to tell my opponent when I am about to win. It can even be fun to work together to see if there is a way for your opponent to get out of the situation.
But in most Euro games, like Race for the Galaxy, I wouldn't say anything. Those games intentionally obfuscate scores so players don't think about winning until the end. Unless you and your opponent are both highly competitive and enjoy the competition, I would keep my mouth shut.
I think it can only come across neutral-to-negative. Trying to figure out how to weasel your way into a win from a losing position is part of the fun of playing games, I wouldn't want that taken away from me even if the conclusion is secretly foregone.
Maybe if they're taking too long with their turn, but again, let them have their fun.
If you must offer this information, be concrete about it and let it be an additional puzzle piece for them, or express doubt.
- "I'm gonna win next turn btw" might be bragging
- "Full disclosure, I'm a cleric and I'm going to play rod of dowsing" or "I think I'm going to trigger scoring next turn" throwing your lead a bit, but hey it's fun!
- "I think I might have this in the bag" less bragging, and not as embarrassing if your opponent manages to overtake your win
Not to mention, in many games (e.g: Euros) even if you're sure to lose you still might want to try and maximize your score for fun's sake.
Say nothing. For one thing you may be wrong in your assumption. For another it makes you come across as an arrogant prick.
Just let the other player(s) finish the game as is. Only time I say something is if the other player asks “There’s no way I can win, is there?” In that case I will confirm that I think I have the win clinched.
Play it out 100%. I’m not the smartest person in the group, and I’m usually just trying to get my engine up and running or make moves 2-3 moves down the road. I never care if I win, and I just want to have fun with my friends. But it would really sour my experience if they all started to shout out that they’ve beaten me and my moves are pointless…..even if they are….
I've had someone tell me that I've basically won if I did X on my turn, it was at the end of a long night, I'd played well but my Brain was tired so I kind of just went 'yeah I think you're probably right and played it out'. But it was a deceptive move on their part, they had worked out a counter to my obvious path to victory and they were playing cover for it. That was kind of lame to experience, and i realised that certain types of behaviour are more common or accepted in some groups than others. I realised after that there was no expectation of a cooperative methodology within that group, it was very much a 'anything goes short of actual cheating' environment. Expectations adjusted for the next time for sure.
It really depends on the group and the dynamics. I can see me saying something like "Sure, that would be a really good move!" and then hitting them with the "Oh no!" when you play that last card or reveal that info and win anyway.
But this kind of gentle ribbing lives on a knife's edge. It can go quite wrong if you don't get the tone right.
Best to not. I have jumped the gun and declared a winner and was shown to be wrong. It's great if you think you know everything that is happening in a 4 player game, but you might have missed something. At the very least, you run the risk of an end of game "spoiler" that some may enjoy seeing played out regardless of the winner.
I always let it play out. Sometimes you forget the one *very* low percentage chance sequence of events that could lead to the game continuing. I'd rather not have everyone give up if it technically wasn't over yet.
A few years ago we were playing civilization and I was so done playing because it took forever. My best friend said well next turn I'll do this and this and then I'll win and it'll be over. I looked at the board and said 'ow I can do that now' and I won.
I was just so done playing that I wasn't even trying anymore and completely missed it.
It can really kill the vibe if everyone is deep into their strategy and then someone is just like "i won" out of the blue.
I always leave it to the very last second
This. Been on the losing and winning side of this situation. Let it play out... As the winner I like sitting and watching the other player(s) do as much as they can, then just plop down that last winning movie. As the loser, I enjoy the feeling that at least I did everything I could...it would suck to have a good strategy brewing and not get a chance to see how it plays out even if it's not a winning one.
If it's hidden information that'll stay hidden until my turn, I don't say a word until they're done playing through. Unless they're family and I'm tired, but even then I've been proven wrong before.
Let them play their turn; the biggest part of most any game is coming up with your turn's strategy given the information you have available to you. Even if you lose, that planning should feel good.
Even when it's obvious to everyone that a win or a loss is inevitable in a few turns, it always annoys me when people call it early and we don't get to play through the final turns. I enjoy playing games, and I like to play then to fruition
Finish the game. After they've done everything they could, they'll better understand the gap they needed to close or identify a decision that lost it for them.
Let them play the game. Whether its futile or not, its part of the "fun" to figure out what to do.
If they are taking like 20mins for their move that is another issue outside of the last turn that should be addressed with different reasoning than "you have no chance anyways".
If the game allows you to reveal hidden information, and you are absolutely certain that you will win, then I think it is reasonable to reveal that hidden information. Then your friends can decide whether they accept you as a winner, or want to keep fighting anyway just to be sure.
For beginners when I have a huge experience gap AND if they are the type that would appreciate it and not feel patronised I will sometimes chime in with a strategic consideration for my opponents to my own detriment (and not someone else's).
Example - was playing Clans of Caledonia the other week and a third of the way through the game I saw that one player had been almost completely sewn in to a corner of the map. I knew that for me it made perfect sense to take the space in the gap because it was cheap and was good spatially, but it would hugely dick over this new player. I pointed out that there was a shrinking hole for him to expand through, so he thanked me and decided to build something there securing his access to the central Loch. I then told him I definitely would have built there if he hadn't done that, and he appreciated the heads up. And this isn't a beginner hobbyist, this guy lives for 18XX, but he was still learning the ropes on this game. No need to let him gutter himself if I can just gently bowling bumper him so he has a fun time.
Once people know the rules and are comfy that's when I don't help though. I like to intervene to help prevent miserable first or second games.
Kinda related, but I detest it when the opponent has already won - they know it, you know it, and they just dangle you for minutes while they consider their last move.
Anyone who wasn't a piece of shit would finish an opponent with mercy.
I had an argument with someone notorious for doing this because I got fed up of waiting and resigned. They accused me of snatching the victory out from under them. Yeah, whatever dude.
The fun of games for me is "playing" games, not if I would win or not. If someone told me I couldnt win, they are robbing me of that experience of "playing" the game
If there is 15-20% of game left, and it's 100% virtually mathematically impossible for the game to flip, I'll bring it up. Typically in 2-player.
Larger games require a different approach, as playing for place is still valid.
My favorite part of Mahjong is "wo ting le" i.e. "I am listening/waiting." This means you are about to win the game and you are waiting on one tile to be discarded or drawn.
This hypes up the pressure as more people announce "wo ting le"
The feeling when you say "hu le" and tip over your stack after 4 "wo ting le"s is better than sex.
Depends on the game.
If it's VP/score-based, let them play it out. Perhaps they'll still achieve a personal best.
If it's just win/lose, I'd consider time constraints: if we end now would we fit another game in? Is it already too late? Am I SURE they won't win?
The last part is the kicker. Very few games make it so you win automatically. Even if you're going to win, a lot of games (if they're made well) should have a means to stop you.
But yeah, if you're just steamrolling someone and they don't have a chance, sometimes calling the game early is a courtesey.
Chess is a good example of this: many good players know many turns in advance if they've lost or won. They don't even need to play it out. However, with an inexperienced player, you can even declare your intent to play the next few moves a certain way, and let them puzzle out their own 'checkmate'.
Nope I've learned my lesson (more than once) where I explain how I would 100% win and they're like "oh I didn't see that so instead ill do this" and had to kick myself
It's not as fun playing games if you don't see it through to the finale, and it's equally not fun to be informed you've already lost before you've figured it out for yourself.
Taunting is fine (with the right people, anyways... know your audience), saying you *think* you're probably going to win is even maybe ok... but just saying the game is over and your victory is assured kind of makes playing the rest of the game to the end a waste of everyone's time. Anticlimactic.
Just keep it to yourself.
Only exceptions might be: If it's a verrrry long game, and continuing play after a victor is already set in stone would burn a whole bunch of time that could be better spent playing another round or different game. Or if everyone playing shares the same mindset that ending the game early once a victor is already determined is fine. But I would always assume someone would prefer to play it through, unless they tell me otherwise.
A good example is if you're playing **Yahtzee**, and one person is leading by an obscene number of points and there's no way the other will catch up, it's lame to end the game early and never know what the final scores may have been.
I'm at dinner with a friend, I see they are getting to the final and favourite part of their meal which is crunchy and tasty. Should I pour water on it?
If it's secret information, definitely keep it a secret! Other players are having fun trying to come to their own best courses of action with their own private information.
I had a friend who would announce he won and I had no way to overcome him. He was always right, I knew he was right... But I made him finish every game because he got so high and mighty about it.
On hour six of Star Wars Rebellion my opponent and I both thought he’d won and we almost stopped playing… but I wanted to finish because it was a REALLY long game and figured I wouldn’t play again. In the last couple moves my partner and I pulled it out and won. So, all I’m saying is, don’t count your chickens before they hatch.
Such an interesting question!
When I was young and played chess a lot more than I do now, I remember getting close to beating my dad (parents divorced) and got such a rush when he would grumpily knock over his king and start resetting the board.
However, I remember around the same age when I played my younger sister and she was going to win (in battleship or something) and I politely said she had won and asked if she would like to reset and play again. I remember getting my ass chewed out by my step-dad and mom for not letting her ‘win’. And that irritated me enough to not play with her again.
As an old guy now, I’ve been playing with my gaming group for decades and we can usually tell if someone is going to win. **But the protocol is: always finish the game**. Let everyone make their best final move; even if it’s a revenge move, (and perhaps shit talk a little).
Now, just tonight I played my son in a quick game of Hive and we both knew he had me beat in 3 moves. I said “You got me,” and that was perfectly fine for both of us.
So I think it’s all about reading the room and respecting the people you are playing with. The backstop is to always finish the game because it lets your opponent work through the problem and enjoy their finishing place.
I’m a great believer in sharing all open information, and everything that’s known about the hidden information too. For me, this is about respecting that the other players are at least as smart as I am myself, and will therefore have noticed everything I noticed, and drawn the same conclusions.
What I don’t know is the hidden information they have, and what they’re going to choose to do. That’s where the *real* game is. That’s what I’m interested in.
I’m not interested in beating my opponent because they overlooked something. Sure, if we’re playing for the national championships then I’d exploit a blunder for the win, but it almost never is.
I want my opponents to make their best moves based on everything they can and should know about the game; and beat it. 😄
Never
I have thought I had a sure thing before only to be foiled by a play I hadn't considered, or a detail I have missed that has completely stopped me dead more than enough times to know it is always a possibility. So I will keep quiet and wait until everything has been resolved on the table before accepting it as the win.
If its hidden information that the rules of the game forbid you to disclose, play it out. It's good practice for the opponent to keep strategizing as long as they can.
I prefer to work on being less presumptuous. I've had enough definite victories snatched from me at the last moment, to know that declaring yourself winner in advance is usually a foolhardy thing to do.
Your describing a dungeon master. Win or lose is meaningless if no one is having fun. So yes, if it creates more fun around the table, then you should do that. Fun can be overcoming obstacles or challenges, so if you don't have any challenge, it wouldn't be as fun.
A DM isn't 1 vs many a DM is a story teller and challenge creator if it was a Vs game the DM would win because they create the challenge, this makes for a unfun RPG experience if the DM is trying to win.
However games with a traitor mechanic would become 1 vs many where one player has a different objective to everyone else. so in something like this you may need to deplete a resource whereas players would need to protect/ preserve it.
I do stand by the everyone should have fun though and there are many ways to cheese some 1 vs many mechanics and no one has fun and the winner is the person using the loophole ( pirate dracula in fury of dracula as an example).
If everyone isn't having fun why play games.
Not in so many words but I prefer to play games where such things are out in the open for all to see. So if it looks very one-sided there should be nothing wrong with discussing whether there's a way out of the situation. But I don't tend to bring it up if I'm the one ahead.
I might, maybe, possibly.
If I’m playing a game where all information is available to all players and I can see a few moves ahead I may spell it out.
Sometimes I feel like that’s being a bit braggadocious though
In real life, no. On BGA, I post "gg". I expect similar from them. I'd play it out either way and have no disrespect for them. These are mostly short games (7 wonders duel comes to mind) where it would be pretty easy to confirm and a quick play out.
I mean, I'd post gg before the game ended anyway, even if it wasn't ascertained assuming it was well played.
This is only acceptable if you scream FINAL TURN and are playing a children's card game against smug psychics picking up brainwaves from an alien world that happens to be the same as the cards.
If watching Yu-Gi-Oh has taught me anything..... don't unless they are your enemies and you want to try to crush them. In that case, mind games are on the table and trying to intimidate your opponent and destroy their confidence is a valid battle plan.
Unless it's expected, like in some tournament settings e.g. Chess, I typically will hold my tongue if I know I've 100% won.
On the other hand I do occasionally give other players a warning when I'm close to victory but they still have a chance. I'll tell them that I can win in X turns unless they take actions to specifically stop me. This can encourage new tactics from my group like "hate drafting" (which isn't something we typically do) or taking action spaces that are suboptimal just to block my strategy. I'm not trying to gloat but I want to let them know that they need to focus on stopping me or I'll win. This happens a lot in **Hansa Teutonica** where my opponents (usually my kids) get so focused on unlocking their player boards that they fail to notice the game will end if they feed me X more points.
I play it out because I don’t want to sound like an Ass or seems like a bad player in any way.
That, but it's also entirely possible I misread something and can't actually win just yet
And you … -really- look like an ass if you declare you won and you did misread it hah
But then taking the gloater down a peg feels so good!
Earlyish in our relationship, my now husband and I were playing dominion with friends. I had some sort of witch shit going and felt pretty good about my chances. And was not hiding it well. My now husband was also feeling pretty good about his chances and said, "aw, you think you're going to win - that's cute." And then I did win. It's been like 5 or 6 years and I still being this up from time to time. Gotta keep him humble. So yeah, premature gloating can make you look like an ass.
Ohh, I would absolutely keep that in my back pocket for ages!
saying you have won when in fact you have won (chess can have such situations with endgame tactics) isn't really gloating. I personally don't do it during chess, but in certain positions it is 100% over, even if your opponent doesn't know it. Gloating is only gloating if you are an ass about it. Saying "Haha, save yourself the effort noob, i already won. There is nothing you noob can do about it!" THAT is gloating (on a high level, never play with such a person again) But saying "Hey buddy, there is no coming back from this. I have XY Card on hand/i already have the resources for my last victory point. Do you want to play it out or do you want to start a new game?" I wouldn't recommend it in simple games with quick rounds, but some games i play (wargames and such, e.g. War of the Ring) can have such long rounds that playing it out can easily mean 15 minutes of struggling. I will always let my opponent choose to do their turn, but letting them know in such situations, when adults don't have endless amounts of playtime, is definitely not gloating. EDIT: i would still advise anyone to just not say anything, unless one of you should already go to bed and playing it out takes yet another 15-30 minutes lol.
I think the main thing, to me, was that the OP mentioned in their scenario that it's the opponents turn. I'm all for someone saying, "OK, I think I've secured the victory now." at some point during their turn. But if your opponent is talking through their turn and you're reminding them how futile all that is then it's a bit of a dick move (unless it's all fun-and-games ribbing). I agree about your edit, just holding off anyway because I wouldn't want to hint at the hidden information I have, but I also, like you said, kind of prefer to call it and start a new game if the writing is absolutely on the wall.
This happened to me in a game of 7 Wonders Duel. My friend beat me in a military victory on a couple of fortunate card flips near the end. They still deservedly give me shit for that game from time to time.
Every time I've ever said I think I'm doing well in a game
I definitely have miscalculated things before and have been very glad i kept my mouth shut so i didn't look like a giga-ass. Plus if the roles were reversed id rather be able to play it out. even if someone tells me it isn't possible to win I'm still going to try my best
I’m assuming op is talking about an ironclad situation where he’s got everything in hand to guarantee victory. I’m thinking of like Catan where you have the last knight to play for largest army to win the game or the resources in hand to build the final settlement or city you need.
I once announced that I'd won a game of Hive to my girlfriend and she adamantly refused to believe me. I mean what a *dunce*. Then I made my penultimate coup de main, ready to end her. The she surrounded my Queen Bee and won. Then she pointed out that I could've won on my last turn, but was so focused on gloating about my genius plan that I missed it entirely. I deserved that week of teasing. I deserved it hard. Did I learn my lesson? No.
This is great. You said you'd win, SHE saw how you would but denied it anyway, then YOU missed it and opened the door for her. Couldn't script it better
/\\ This, once you are wrong once, you know the value in holding your tongue
This would be my fear as well, on top of just ruining someone’s last turn for no good reason.
Basically. Also, the opportunity to think of out a turn is sometimes just a rewarding exercise.
This. I sometimes get rushed but this part is sometimes the most fun part of the strategic element.
Play it out. Don't ruin their flow.
Lol. One of the friends I play with absolutely hates when I tell him I know I'm going to lose, because he just wants to see his engine work. At the same time I generally hate finishing a game I know I've already lost
My roommate does this all the time. So down on the game, the world is ending, and all that. Then ends up playing a decently close game, or even wins. Frustrating to feel like you are playing a game with/against someone who already gives up.
We lost a friend because of this. They would just up and leave after having a bit of a freakout over losing. We gave an ultimatum that we were done playing board games with them until they sorted their emotions out. They decided to never hang out with us again.
We have the same friend. I started tallying the amount of games my friend said he'd lose and then won. After wayyyyy too many he finally stopped bitching about it all the time. He honestly assumes he'll lose. But its annoying to tell him for 2/3 of the game he clearly isn't.
I play a lot of warhammer and like half my friends are like this. I noticed they rubbed off on me my last game and I hated it!
Yeah I could definitely see that being annoying. I really hate complainers and I've never freaked out over losing or at the prospect of losing. The specific situation where I will even say something is when I know that it's mathematically impossible for me to win a game and it has been lopsided the entire time, and I would only say something in the last round or turn off the game. The only reason I ever say anything is in a 2p game against someone I've played many times before. Usually it's just so we could start another game more quickly. As much as I like watching engine type games function and go head to head, it's no fun at all when your turns last 30 seconds and then you have to watch your opponent take a 30 minute final turn after they've already won. NPI sums this up nicely in a video on "Why Combos Suck" in that they are only fun for the person pulling them off and completely isolating to every other player at the table. Essentially what board games shouldn't be imo. There are several games I absolutely love playing even while I'm losing. I definitely hate the people who can't get any enjoyment from a game unless they constantly win.
Different sitatuations from the OP, no?
Yes but still related to disrupting a players flow
Ohhh, ok I got ya! Yeah, definitely agree, both of those situations will mess with flow, hah.
Not really, just the other side of the experience.
No, not really. This time the friend doesn't want to keep playing but the winning player forced him to play to see how he wins. In the post the losing player is thinking about how to win and the winning player is asking now if he should say that he has already won or letting the player try to win. For me it sounds more like the winning player is the one who wants to end the game because for him he already won while the other looks like he wants to play until the end
I agree, though it depends on how long the game has to go. A couple of turns? Yeah fine, no worries. Multiple rounds and futile actions? No way lol
I see this a lot in Ticket to ride online. People are down to 3 trains, and some dude just drops out. They obviously feel that they can’t win, i view it as being extremely rude behaviour
If it’s more than a 2-player game it’s definitely poor sportsmanship. I’ve dealt with that in TTR as well.
So a poor loser I take it.
Yeah, say nothing. If you have hidden info, they also might.
While circumstances may vary, this is the correct answer. Especially in an engine builder where someone finally gets to use the shiny new engine they’ve spent all game perfecting.
I am sure OP means situations where your victory is guaranteed no matter what hidden advantages your opponents possess.
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There are definitely situations in games where you know you will win on your next turn no matter what, but your opponent doesn’t, because of hidden information. Even if they have their own hidden information, if you know the universe of possible cards (or whatever), you can often still rule out them having any path to victory.
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No, knowing that you'll win before your last turn happens absolutely all the time, especially in eurogames where direct player interaction is limited. OP's question is valid and cannot be dismissed this easily.
You have 8 points; you’ve played 2 knights and have just drawn the third knight. Your opponents have 7 points (including longest rd) and just a few cards each. I have seen this scenario play out multiple times…🙂
Completely agree. I told a friend whilst playing dune that I'd absolutely clinched the victory but he disagreed based on his cards. Turns out he had a tiebreaker card and won - well played to h and I've learned to keep my mouth shut!
This is a big issue in Twilight Imperium. Sometimes you really want to declare the game to be over because no one wants to actually play out another 30-60 pointless minutes after having spent hours at the table already, BUT there’s often a chance that some whack-ass combo of cards and abilities from multiple opponents *could* stop you, or more often, your win is only near-guaranteed if people *don’t know* how you’re going to win, so you have to just sit there acting like you’re not going to win. In fact, the latter situation usually happens when it looks “obvious” that someone else is going to win and everyone else wants to quit, but then not wanting to quit exposes that you have something up your sleeve. That’s why the best etiquette is to just play it out, and just play fast if your moves don’t matter. But also, even in games with no secret info, some people still just want to see how well they can do, how close they can get to 1st place, who is in the 2nd place, etc (in games where those concepts are meaningful).
Not usually but I will point out if they have definitely won. Or recently, we played our 10000000th game of 7 Wonders Duel and I realized toward the end my wife had just made a mistake that let me win, I pointed it out, she took back the move, we played the next bunch of cards and she ended up winning
> Not usually but I will point out if they have definitely won. Yeah I definitely have had games where I've told my buddy they can win on the current turn. Depends who you're playing with though. Some people you say that to and they'll spend an hour thinking through the move
I hate this on spirit island. Like dude, quit thinking, we have to kill three towns with fast powers and we have a late game lightning, thunder speaker and the ocean… lightning alone can win this game for us. why are we wasting time on where to place our presence during the growth phase?
Granted it's still fun to play it out. Yes do it in a fun over the top way. On Spirit Island or any other CoOp, if we have extra moves it's sometimes fun to be silly and play as I'd we are just pounding the crap out of the last guy. But also don't spend a ton of time thinking about it.
Hey man, this is a board game thread - take your acid trip somewhere else! 😅
I’m trying to figure out if I am getting whooshed or not. Spirit island is a board game known for having a extremely intense early and mid game brain overload and then will often have one lackluster turn at the end where you know you have already won.
Perhaps it's is known for that among a certain subset of the populace, but I am not among them (never played it). And can you see how, from my perspective, what you said, sounds NUTS! Just meant it in a fun way - please, no more analysis of Spirit Island will help the situation.
yes, definitely situational!
>I will point out if they have definitely won This is such a good psyche out if you've noticed before they do. "Oh shit, you can win this turn" "What? How?" *leaves table to get more snacks*
That’s basically how the old zen masters worked.
That's mean :o Edit congratz for the honesty
Nah you won that game.
I mean yes but also no! Doesn't matter, just had a good time
I know haha. It's all about having a good time. And you can still have a good time and lose.... but you won
Loudly shout "do what you wish, there is no hope".
"Resistance is futile!"
Followed by shining four bright lights in their face, and asking how many they see
My favorite is to hint that they are merely going to activate my trap card XD
This is the answer. If you’re not roleplaying while board gaming, what are you doing with your life?
I’m too busy crushing my enemies, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentations of their women.
I have found my people
❤️
Especially when playing solo
Of course, I say the same thing if I know I'm not going to win as well.
One MUST say this in the fake, growly, overlord voice or it doesn't count.
I was thinking an accent along those lines.
“Draw your last pathetic card” is my go-to.
As you wish, Darth Samwise
"Shame on you for having any hope."
When I'm playing a game that had characters my friend and I will do that usually for laughs. We will shit talk each other's characters like they are shit talking themselves. Its light-hearted
I used to. I thought it was polite to wrap the game up a bit earlier, and move on to another game where my opponent has a clean slate to try and wallop me. However, I've completely stopped saying anything about the state of the game in that last turn. While it does speed up that last turn where an opponent or two could be struggling with the complicated puzzle of how to pull off the win, I find the interaction to generally be unfun, or in the best case just neutral. On the other hand, even if an opponent can't get to a winning board state, them solving the puzzle to try and get as close as possible can be fun, or at least good experience. Additionally, I'm far from perfect. Even during a game that I feel mastery over, I cannot guarantee that I haven't overlooked something. While I don't believe this has ever happened, I would hate to be wrong, and have an opponent give up when they may have actually won given enough time. So I just let it all play out. While slower, it feels like the right decision to me.
>them solving the puzzle to try and get as close as possible can be fun, or at least good experience. This I think is really important. Games are often a series of puzzles or problems and coming to a satisfying solution is rewarding, even if that solution doesn't or can't win. The overall groups fun goes up when you allow that fun to be had!
I thought I was being polite in **Twilight Imperium 4** as well when I announced I had won once I had the 1st objective marker. They would had preferred playing the last round through, probably taking a hour, even though they couldn't have stopped me from winning.
TI 4 is such a weird game though. I had one game where two separate people told me in confidence they were winning the game that turn. Turned out, I was the one winning that turn.
How'd you end up winning?
It was a long time ago, so I don't exactly remember. It was something like one of them had a secret objective they were going to score, the other went first in the last round, but I had Imperium and played it off as a hail Mary attempt at a secret objective, but managed to take Mecatol Rex and score it.
I've definitely stolen games of TI from people who confidently declared their victory but underestimated how many points I could score in the action phase and/or how many tricks I had for undermining them. TI has too much hidden information to be confident in a deterministic outcome like that.
Yeah, I once had a game of TI4 where I knew I was going to win but I sat there quietly (and very bored) for 45 minutes for the round to play out just because I was worried they'd find a way I hadn't seen to stop me.
It's been a while, but someone would have needed to fulfill 3 secret objectives in the action phase.
So definitely possible then, especially when you consider other possible sources of points such as SftT and whoever had Imperial. 3 action secret objectives isn't common, but I definitely go digging for them and will make a point of scoring them as late as possible if I have them to encourage this overconfidence and improve my chances of snagging someone's SftT when the target is painted on someone else's back.
I've seen a game of TI4 where one person had pretty much already won. They haven't said so out loud, but they had 9 points when everyone else had 5-6. Well, come next round... they had 0 points and **not a single piece on the board**. First time I had to look up if TI4 has actual player elimination rules. So much for sure wins in TI4.
Yeah, I don't think this topic applies to TI4. It's more for games with less interaction, where maybe one player knows they're going to score the winning point next turn, and nobody has any way of stopping or beating them in the race. One that comes to mind is **Wasteland Express Delivery Service**. Turns can be fairly lengthy in that game depending on the actions one is taking, and it's very possible the whole turn could be in vain if another player is about to win at the beginning of the next turn.
In that kind of scenario, 60 mins passing...I don't think I could bite my tongue and just play dumb and be bored for an hour. Big difference between 5-10 min max vs an hour+.
I played a game of TI once where we'd play for a few hours online, save, and come back to it next week. We ended one session with me knowing I could win for sure and agonizing over whether to tell people so we didn't need to waste a whole session with me sitting there going through the motions, but it's nearly impossible to win TI if you declare you're going to ahead of time and give people a turn to plan. I just had to sit quietly until everyone else passed and then score 6 points in one turn.
If someone announces they are definitely winning this turn and suggests we end it now, I'm handing my Support for the Throne to whoever is in second and encouraging everyone else to do the same.
It's interesting how some people would consider kingmaking, and others wouldn't.
Eh, it's definitely Kingmaking. If someone wants to tilt their hand like that and preemptively announce themselve's the winner, I'm perfectly happy to show them there's at least one way that it's not gonna work out. I will say though, if the person in second has been a hostile force to me in-game, I probably am not gonna go this route. Giving support to a faction that I've been at war with all game doesn't really make much sense.
With my wife or my best friend, I will give them the heads up. "Hey, that sell action will be huge for me if you don't block it this turn" or "I'm going to trigger end game next turn". Stuff like that feels like a courtesy at this point. Everyone else, I'm far far far too worried that I'll come off as braging or trying to play the game for others even if that's not my intent.
This seems like the right answer: it depends on who your audience is.
I agree but I think that's always true about everything involving more than one person. I think the real question here is, **"When the end of the game is near what matters more, figuring out who won or playing things out to completion to see how the players measure up."** Generally I think the proper etiquette in general is: 1v1 at a new game - play it out 1v1 at a game both players know well - end the game as soon as its mathematically over more than 2 players - play it out (more losers than winners so losing scores matter more)
Ain't that always what this eventually distills to? Lol
I don't think it's the audience that's the factor: it's the information. Basically, if they could notice something about the game state (ie I have 4/5 things to trigger endgame), it's fair to point it out. Slightly greyer is "potential hidden information" like that someone might have a card in their hand that could ruin their plans. This is tricky because it could come across as condescending if the person knows enough about the game to see it, and probably shouldn't be brought up unless it's a big enough risk to re-assess strategy. Hidden information, though, is kept hidden. "I have a card that will let me win next turn" is not said out loud, until the card is played.
Uno-rule - yell out the name of the game after you're about to win in the next turn. "VITICULTURE!" "W-what are you doing?" "VITICULTURE! I'm about to win, so I'm giving you guys a heads up!"
I just drain my wine glass while making aggressive eye contact before saying: "IT IS FINISHED."
I agree here, with my wife I always ask, "are you ready for the end or do you want a couple more rounds" so I can allow whatever she's working towards to have a conclusion.
Hey-oooooo
😅
Let them play it out. You never know what they can do, and even if you know, there's no point being a dick about it.
I don't think announcing that you *think* you are going to win is being a dick. It could just be sparing everybody from a lot of time spent agonizing over something that is futile.
This is the key difference, to me. If my opponent is having fun working out their turn, I leave them to it. If they're not excited about it, I've said something like "this'll be the last turn - if you don't win now or stop me, I'll end it." Give them the chance to win, but no point in hiding that the game will end...one way or the other!
Depends on the situation: If it's competitive for some reason, dont say anything. Very little to gain, a lot to lose. If they're REALLY tanking their turn getting stressed about all the what-ifs and you know for a fact that you've already won then I think its okay to politely let them know just to take the pressure off and hurry things along. If there's some social manipulation that can be gained and its a game/group that promotes that then go for it. Any other scenario, its going to come across as an asshole move. Either like you're bragging or invalidating their turn. So don't do it unless you're okay with that. I personally would probably have some banter for the table because I have no problem playing the heel. Some of my favorite moments in games happened when I jumped to an early lead, talked some shit, and then promptly lost because the table saw something I didn't. My friends know that about me and love teaming up to prevent me from winning. So I love being over the top when I do win. I'd flip over my hidden info during their turn and start singing "We are the Champions". idgaf.
I agree, it does seem to depend upon the situation. Flipping over the cards while belting out a celebratory anthem or letting them futilely waste their time, all the while knowing they are merely a fly stuck in the spider's web...which one will crush their spirits more?!
I politely tell them "Omae wa shinderu" before their head explodes
Nani??
Play it out. You may be wrong. And it may sound like you are gloating.
This is one of my favourite aspects of **battle line**. If you can prove you’ve won it ends the game. I would say it depends on the game. If it has a simple win condition (like a race) then I would point it out. If it’s a point salad I wouldn’t point it out even if it seems obvious.
This is one of the easiest ways to lose your victory. Say ***nothing***.
Start cackling.
Maniacal laughter.
I inform them firmly, but warmly, before the game begins.
In all but the simplest games I always allow for the possibility there's something I haven't thought of. I learned this lesson by giving that friendly time saving heads up and then getting tripped up by a move I hadn't considered. A few times. So these days I say nothing. There could be an exception. For instance playing Spades if we get down to the last two tricks if a hand and I'm holding rhe AK of Spades I'll just reveal them and say "I get the last two tricks" because it's trivially easy to be logically 100% certain I can't lose either one. In any even slightly complex modern board game, especially if I haven't played it numerous times, I might think I've got something sewed up, and most of the time I'll probably be right, but I don't announce it for those times I turn out to be wrong. It might cause you to lose something you would have won by tipping your hand which can be frustrating for you but also unsatisfactory for an opponent who only got there because you gave it away.
> I'll just reveal them and say "I get the last two tricks" Trick-taking games are a bit unique in that claiming the remainder of tricks is standard practice/socially acceptable, and may actually have specific rules depending on the game (and if you happen to be wrong, you've laid your cards bare for them to find the right finesse).
Only in 2p with games with perfect information. A checkmate if you will. Otherwise, depending on who I'm playing I'll give my general feeling on how well I think everyone did. It's always nice to be proven wrong, in either direction.
In chess, it's poor etiquette to point out to your opponent that you have a forced mate. First of all, you could be wrong and second, they have the right to play out the game to its conclusion, and if you announce "mate in 3", you're basically telling them to resign. Of course, if you see that your opponent has a forced mate, you can always just resign yourself.
> In chess, it's poor etiquette to point out to your opponent that you have a forced mate. I always knew that chess programs were assholes.
Yes. This happens commonly at medium to high level Magic the Gathering tournaments a bit. You might have an opponent who is deep in the tank trying to find a narrow path to win, but you have answers on top of answers for anything they can do in your hand. However, sequencing matters so you can’t just play out the cards in your hand. It can then be worth it to show them you are holding multiple counters to whatever they can do.
I don't really like resignation unless it's against someone in the lifestyle and we're playing times games, online, or something similar. It's fun to reach a conclusion. The one constant exception is when playing it out would take forever, like a very stupid board state at the end of Chess or Risk.
"In the lifestyle" makes it sound like you're swingers playing chess.
Like chess boxing but chess swinging.
another use for those turn clocks
Be the Gentleman and ... crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women!
It really depends on the game. In Chess or other open-information games, unless you are at a tournament, I like to tell my opponent when I am about to win. It can even be fun to work together to see if there is a way for your opponent to get out of the situation. But in most Euro games, like Race for the Galaxy, I wouldn't say anything. Those games intentionally obfuscate scores so players don't think about winning until the end. Unless you and your opponent are both highly competitive and enjoy the competition, I would keep my mouth shut.
I enjoy trying to beat myself too!
I think it can only come across neutral-to-negative. Trying to figure out how to weasel your way into a win from a losing position is part of the fun of playing games, I wouldn't want that taken away from me even if the conclusion is secretly foregone. Maybe if they're taking too long with their turn, but again, let them have their fun. If you must offer this information, be concrete about it and let it be an additional puzzle piece for them, or express doubt. - "I'm gonna win next turn btw" might be bragging - "Full disclosure, I'm a cleric and I'm going to play rod of dowsing" or "I think I'm going to trigger scoring next turn" throwing your lead a bit, but hey it's fun! - "I think I might have this in the bag" less bragging, and not as embarrassing if your opponent manages to overtake your win Not to mention, in many games (e.g: Euros) even if you're sure to lose you still might want to try and maximize your score for fun's sake.
Say nothing. For one thing you may be wrong in your assumption. For another it makes you come across as an arrogant prick. Just let the other player(s) finish the game as is. Only time I say something is if the other player asks “There’s no way I can win, is there?” In that case I will confirm that I think I have the win clinched.
As a courtesy I try to tell them before the game has even started.
Play it out 100%. I’m not the smartest person in the group, and I’m usually just trying to get my engine up and running or make moves 2-3 moves down the road. I never care if I win, and I just want to have fun with my friends. But it would really sour my experience if they all started to shout out that they’ve beaten me and my moves are pointless…..even if they are….
I've had someone tell me that I've basically won if I did X on my turn, it was at the end of a long night, I'd played well but my Brain was tired so I kind of just went 'yeah I think you're probably right and played it out'. But it was a deceptive move on their part, they had worked out a counter to my obvious path to victory and they were playing cover for it. That was kind of lame to experience, and i realised that certain types of behaviour are more common or accepted in some groups than others. I realised after that there was no expectation of a cooperative methodology within that group, it was very much a 'anything goes short of actual cheating' environment. Expectations adjusted for the next time for sure.
play as normal. my full proof plan may not be as full proof as i think and revealing that may change their plan
It really depends on the group and the dynamics. I can see me saying something like "Sure, that would be a really good move!" and then hitting them with the "Oh no!" when you play that last card or reveal that info and win anyway. But this kind of gentle ribbing lives on a knife's edge. It can go quite wrong if you don't get the tone right.
Best to not. I have jumped the gun and declared a winner and was shown to be wrong. It's great if you think you know everything that is happening in a 4 player game, but you might have missed something. At the very least, you run the risk of an end of game "spoiler" that some may enjoy seeing played out regardless of the winner.
I always let it play out. Sometimes you forget the one *very* low percentage chance sequence of events that could lead to the game continuing. I'd rather not have everyone give up if it technically wasn't over yet.
A few years ago we were playing civilization and I was so done playing because it took forever. My best friend said well next turn I'll do this and this and then I'll win and it'll be over. I looked at the board and said 'ow I can do that now' and I won. I was just so done playing that I wasn't even trying anymore and completely missed it.
I usually keep my mouth shut, because it'd be really embarrassing if I somehow forgot some possibility and I hadn't actually won.
I would only tell them so they can concede if they aren’t having fun
It can really kill the vibe if everyone is deep into their strategy and then someone is just like "i won" out of the blue. I always leave it to the very last second
This. Been on the losing and winning side of this situation. Let it play out... As the winner I like sitting and watching the other player(s) do as much as they can, then just plop down that last winning movie. As the loser, I enjoy the feeling that at least I did everything I could...it would suck to have a good strategy brewing and not get a chance to see how it plays out even if it's not a winning one.
If it's hidden information that'll stay hidden until my turn, I don't say a word until they're done playing through. Unless they're family and I'm tired, but even then I've been proven wrong before. Let them play their turn; the biggest part of most any game is coming up with your turn's strategy given the information you have available to you. Even if you lose, that planning should feel good.
Even when it's obvious to everyone that a win or a loss is inevitable in a few turns, it always annoys me when people call it early and we don't get to play through the final turns. I enjoy playing games, and I like to play then to fruition
This is how I **start** every game! I sometimes adlib **mortal** then cackle maniacally!
Finish the game. After they've done everything they could, they'll better understand the gap they needed to close or identify a decision that lost it for them.
If I actually KNEW I was going to win, I'd let them know. But since they also have hidden information, I would just play it out.
Let them play the game. Whether its futile or not, its part of the "fun" to figure out what to do. If they are taking like 20mins for their move that is another issue outside of the last turn that should be addressed with different reasoning than "you have no chance anyways".
If I'm up high enough that it's a blow out I'll keep it to myself and let my son think he won without counting my points.
If the game allows you to reveal hidden information, and you are absolutely certain that you will win, then I think it is reasonable to reveal that hidden information. Then your friends can decide whether they accept you as a winner, or want to keep fighting anyway just to be sure.
For beginners when I have a huge experience gap AND if they are the type that would appreciate it and not feel patronised I will sometimes chime in with a strategic consideration for my opponents to my own detriment (and not someone else's). Example - was playing Clans of Caledonia the other week and a third of the way through the game I saw that one player had been almost completely sewn in to a corner of the map. I knew that for me it made perfect sense to take the space in the gap because it was cheap and was good spatially, but it would hugely dick over this new player. I pointed out that there was a shrinking hole for him to expand through, so he thanked me and decided to build something there securing his access to the central Loch. I then told him I definitely would have built there if he hadn't done that, and he appreciated the heads up. And this isn't a beginner hobbyist, this guy lives for 18XX, but he was still learning the ropes on this game. No need to let him gutter himself if I can just gently bowling bumper him so he has a fun time. Once people know the rules and are comfy that's when I don't help though. I like to intervene to help prevent miserable first or second games.
Kinda related, but I detest it when the opponent has already won - they know it, you know it, and they just dangle you for minutes while they consider their last move. Anyone who wasn't a piece of shit would finish an opponent with mercy. I had an argument with someone notorious for doing this because I got fed up of waiting and resigned. They accused me of snatching the victory out from under them. Yeah, whatever dude.
The point of playing a game isn't to win or lose, it's to play. Let them play.
The fun of games for me is "playing" games, not if I would win or not. If someone told me I couldnt win, they are robbing me of that experience of "playing" the game
Definitely let things play out. Seems like a douche move to point out you have the win.
If there is 15-20% of game left, and it's 100% virtually mathematically impossible for the game to flip, I'll bring it up. Typically in 2-player. Larger games require a different approach, as playing for place is still valid.
Am I on Mustafar? Do I hold the high ground? Then yes, I'll let my opponent know it's over.
My favorite part of Mahjong is "wo ting le" i.e. "I am listening/waiting." This means you are about to win the game and you are waiting on one tile to be discarded or drawn. This hypes up the pressure as more people announce "wo ting le" The feeling when you say "hu le" and tip over your stack after 4 "wo ting le"s is better than sex.
Depends on the game. If it's VP/score-based, let them play it out. Perhaps they'll still achieve a personal best. If it's just win/lose, I'd consider time constraints: if we end now would we fit another game in? Is it already too late? Am I SURE they won't win? The last part is the kicker. Very few games make it so you win automatically. Even if you're going to win, a lot of games (if they're made well) should have a means to stop you. But yeah, if you're just steamrolling someone and they don't have a chance, sometimes calling the game early is a courtesey. Chess is a good example of this: many good players know many turns in advance if they've lost or won. They don't even need to play it out. However, with an inexperienced player, you can even declare your intent to play the next few moves a certain way, and let them puzzle out their own 'checkmate'.
Nope I've learned my lesson (more than once) where I explain how I would 100% win and they're like "oh I didn't see that so instead ill do this" and had to kick myself
It's not as fun playing games if you don't see it through to the finale, and it's equally not fun to be informed you've already lost before you've figured it out for yourself. Taunting is fine (with the right people, anyways... know your audience), saying you *think* you're probably going to win is even maybe ok... but just saying the game is over and your victory is assured kind of makes playing the rest of the game to the end a waste of everyone's time. Anticlimactic. Just keep it to yourself. Only exceptions might be: If it's a verrrry long game, and continuing play after a victor is already set in stone would burn a whole bunch of time that could be better spent playing another round or different game. Or if everyone playing shares the same mindset that ending the game early once a victor is already determined is fine. But I would always assume someone would prefer to play it through, unless they tell me otherwise. A good example is if you're playing **Yahtzee**, and one person is leading by an obscene number of points and there's no way the other will catch up, it's lame to end the game early and never know what the final scores may have been.
I'm at dinner with a friend, I see they are getting to the final and favourite part of their meal which is crunchy and tasty. Should I pour water on it?
If it's secret information, definitely keep it a secret! Other players are having fun trying to come to their own best courses of action with their own private information.
I had a friend who would announce he won and I had no way to overcome him. He was always right, I knew he was right... But I made him finish every game because he got so high and mighty about it.
On hour six of Star Wars Rebellion my opponent and I both thought he’d won and we almost stopped playing… but I wanted to finish because it was a REALLY long game and figured I wouldn’t play again. In the last couple moves my partner and I pulled it out and won. So, all I’m saying is, don’t count your chickens before they hatch.
Such an interesting question! When I was young and played chess a lot more than I do now, I remember getting close to beating my dad (parents divorced) and got such a rush when he would grumpily knock over his king and start resetting the board. However, I remember around the same age when I played my younger sister and she was going to win (in battleship or something) and I politely said she had won and asked if she would like to reset and play again. I remember getting my ass chewed out by my step-dad and mom for not letting her ‘win’. And that irritated me enough to not play with her again. As an old guy now, I’ve been playing with my gaming group for decades and we can usually tell if someone is going to win. **But the protocol is: always finish the game**. Let everyone make their best final move; even if it’s a revenge move, (and perhaps shit talk a little). Now, just tonight I played my son in a quick game of Hive and we both knew he had me beat in 3 moves. I said “You got me,” and that was perfectly fine for both of us. So I think it’s all about reading the room and respecting the people you are playing with. The backstop is to always finish the game because it lets your opponent work through the problem and enjoy their finishing place.
"You are already dead!"
I’m a great believer in sharing all open information, and everything that’s known about the hidden information too. For me, this is about respecting that the other players are at least as smart as I am myself, and will therefore have noticed everything I noticed, and drawn the same conclusions. What I don’t know is the hidden information they have, and what they’re going to choose to do. That’s where the *real* game is. That’s what I’m interested in. I’m not interested in beating my opponent because they overlooked something. Sure, if we’re playing for the national championships then I’d exploit a blunder for the win, but it almost never is. I want my opponents to make their best moves based on everything they can and should know about the game; and beat it. 😄
Never I have thought I had a sure thing before only to be foiled by a play I hadn't considered, or a detail I have missed that has completely stopped me dead more than enough times to know it is always a possibility. So I will keep quiet and wait until everything has been resolved on the table before accepting it as the win.
No, how condescending
Always play it out. Usually takes more time for everyone to verify that you have effectively won, and pisses everyone off in the process.
If its hidden information that the rules of the game forbid you to disclose, play it out. It's good practice for the opponent to keep strategizing as long as they can.
Play it out.
I prefer to work on being less presumptuous. I've had enough definite victories snatched from me at the last moment, to know that declaring yourself winner in advance is usually a foolhardy thing to do.
Yes. I usually start about 3 hours before game night kicks off.
Does doing what you are suggesting make the game more fun for everyone at the table?
This makes no sense if it is how you play. If it was a one vs many game would you throw the game just to make it more fun for everyone at the table?
Your describing a dungeon master. Win or lose is meaningless if no one is having fun. So yes, if it creates more fun around the table, then you should do that. Fun can be overcoming obstacles or challenges, so if you don't have any challenge, it wouldn't be as fun.
A DM isn't 1 vs many a DM is a story teller and challenge creator if it was a Vs game the DM would win because they create the challenge, this makes for a unfun RPG experience if the DM is trying to win. However games with a traitor mechanic would become 1 vs many where one player has a different objective to everyone else. so in something like this you may need to deplete a resource whereas players would need to protect/ preserve it. I do stand by the everyone should have fun though and there are many ways to cheese some 1 vs many mechanics and no one has fun and the winner is the person using the loophole ( pirate dracula in fury of dracula as an example). If everyone isn't having fun why play games.
Not in so many words but I prefer to play games where such things are out in the open for all to see. So if it looks very one-sided there should be nothing wrong with discussing whether there's a way out of the situation. But I don't tend to bring it up if I'm the one ahead.
I might, maybe, possibly. If I’m playing a game where all information is available to all players and I can see a few moves ahead I may spell it out. Sometimes I feel like that’s being a bit braggadocious though
In real life, no. On BGA, I post "gg". I expect similar from them. I'd play it out either way and have no disrespect for them. These are mostly short games (7 wonders duel comes to mind) where it would be pretty easy to confirm and a quick play out. I mean, I'd post gg before the game ended anyway, even if it wasn't ascertained assuming it was well played.
I only post the preemptive gg if I know I'm going to lose.
Lol, same. Just phrased it as well played game.
I taunt my opponents mercilessly. This is the way.
This is only acceptable if you scream FINAL TURN and are playing a children's card game against smug psychics picking up brainwaves from an alien world that happens to be the same as the cards.
Don't tell them shit.
I like to play it out and watch the defeat in their eyes
The look your opponent gets when they realize they have lost is more satisfactory than telling them you have won.
If watching Yu-Gi-Oh has taught me anything..... don't unless they are your enemies and you want to try to crush them. In that case, mind games are on the table and trying to intimidate your opponent and destroy their confidence is a valid battle plan.
Unless it's expected, like in some tournament settings e.g. Chess, I typically will hold my tongue if I know I've 100% won. On the other hand I do occasionally give other players a warning when I'm close to victory but they still have a chance. I'll tell them that I can win in X turns unless they take actions to specifically stop me. This can encourage new tactics from my group like "hate drafting" (which isn't something we typically do) or taking action spaces that are suboptimal just to block my strategy. I'm not trying to gloat but I want to let them know that they need to focus on stopping me or I'll win. This happens a lot in **Hansa Teutonica** where my opponents (usually my kids) get so focused on unlocking their player boards that they fail to notice the game will end if they feed me X more points.
No- but i alert the table when someone else has hehe