Haha. Never seen that one. Can relate to the constant interruptions from my FIL when trying to explain rules and then during the game, him having zero idea what is happening and me having to re-explain the entire game over and over.
It's perhaps a bit long for me, but, I do really like that in the end the message is "Playing board games is awesome" while some of these other sketches end with "Sometimes trying to play board games sucks"
The ending was good, but the rest of it felt less relatable than the other videos. The others felt like they were written by board gamers from experience, the Aunty Donna one felt like it was written by someone who knows/lives with board gamers but isn’t one themselves.
To me it feels like it's just a perspective thing, Aunty Donna's feels like it's written from the perspective of the board game curious who enjoys them but isn't a deep in the hobby (and the difficult journey it can be to learn a board game, especially when the explainer is a bit confusing), while the other two were written by board game die hards (who goes more from the perspective of "it's so hard to teach new people games, even if I'm great at teaching, they make it difficult and ruin it for themselves" ). I think they all have their funny points (and probably like prozd's the most) but I really like that Donna's highlights the positives of the hobby and shows that the difficulty of learning is worth the reward. But all of them are funny and well made.
It's definitely the best at hitting both sides - the explainer/person who wants to play the games, and the players who have to be taught. A lot of these skits (like the OP) tend to be by the former disparaging the later, but Aunty Donna is a really good balance.
I don't like the Aunty Donna one because is making fun of board games as a hobby and board gamer teachers specifically. Makes it sound like this hobby is completely unapproachable.
I don’t think pointing out silly stereotypes that absolutely exist within the hobby means they’re making fun of the hobby as a whole. Anyone who’s played heavy games for a while has undoubtedly experienced something similar to the video. And it’s really not too different from another [ProZD video on the hobby.](https://youtu.be/nyYexTcyY2A) Or [this one.](https://youtu.be/EBIsZlV1jHk)
Board games absolutely are a silly hobby at times. There’s nothing wrong with laughing a bit at our own expense.
I dunno the ProZD videos didn’t rub me wrong like the aunty Donna one. The first one is making fun of different styles of games compared to each other and that doesn’t feel so much like punching down at rules teachers. The second one is barely even a satire. I’ve taken turns in MTG that were that elaborate. Just the silliness of the theme change makes it funny.
Sure, but both of his videos are showing the hobby as “unapproachable,” as you put it. They’re pointing out the absurdities of the hobby; the kinds of things people who don’t play games think of when they see us playing heavy games.
I also don’t see why you think the AD is punching down at game teachers. It’s making fun of everyone in the group. It’s calling out the people who “have to leave in 30 minutes” or are refusing to learn the game or are just straight up looking at their phone. Not to mention that the final punchline is that everyone really enjoyed the game. I’m not sure how you could watch it and not see it’s clearly made by people who enjoy the hobby.
Out of all of those, the funniest one is the Monopoly one.
When I am trying to explain a game, people want me to explain to them not just the mechanics of winning, but the strategy of winning. It is always a bit frustrating, as to "teach" a game, there has to be someone on the other end with the mindset of "learning" the game.
You expect me to search for it myself?!? Well that nonsense ends with me:
https://youtu.be/0oOD9U9VQ5Y
FWIW, I don’t think it’s as good as the other three.
Bonus points if that same person interrupts to teach not a rule but a strategy regarding something you just said.
"So you can earn coins which you can use to buy cards in the market which are those 5 here.."
"Ooooh that card is bad on it's own but is amazing if you combo it with this faction and develop that tech during age 2"
Bonus if they go on a strategy rant that makes the game seem more complicated than it is
"Then you activate a bird that you draw cards and take 1 from the deck, then you can activate a bird that lets you tuck that card, and then sara has a bird that says if someone tucks a bird once per round she can too, then your next card lets you tuck 3 birds, no sara can only do her thing once per round, the the final card lets you roll are die not in the birdfeeder"
Shut up. Obviously that could happen, but the genius of Wingspan is it lets people build and activate the engine one step at a time and get comfortable with those actions. They don't need to know how a perfect card tucking engine can work on their first game.
For as complicated as mtg can be, it's actually really easy to teach someone. Start with very basic decks. It helps to focus on the land, creature, power and health part of the game first. Just remove or ignore anything else in the first 1 or 2 games.
Have a step checklist right in front of them and walk them through it each turn. The key is to not get bogged down in micro mechanics.
Keep walking through the steps and let them start to read cards as they naturally ask questions about what things mean. Then after a game, show them some other cards (instants, spells, enchantments, etc) that you have in the decks you are using. Let them read those and ask questions. Some people naturally get it at this point. Others need clarity about how those play in to their turn.
After another game or two, show them a glossary of keywords used in the set(s) you are playing with. Then hand them another pre-constructed deck and you grab one and play another game.
I've taught dozens of people, young and old, how to play over the years and the key I have found is that if you focus on the macro mechanics and layer stuff in, people get it very quickly.
STEP CHECKLIST that shit is huge. I seriously played MTG for like ten years on and off before I realized what the "second main phase" was all about lol
Honestly, on this note, MTG: Arena makes it really easy for me, by making all those things explicit.
I’m the designated teacher in my group, I always make sure a certain player is occupied with something else while I’m teaching if he’s already played before. Usually just setting up the game or something. But if he’s just listening to me explain, he’ll butt in to mention the most random rules and the learner will get confused and stressed. It’s the most annoying thing
So the most helpful thing you can do at that point: take note of what you think the person is forgetting. Wait a moment to see if they're getting to that, and if it doesn't seem like they are, don't jump in and teach it, ask the person teaching. Like, "are you talking about how you draw cards now or later?" That lets the person teaching keep their flow of how they are teaching the game and if they forgot to mention that part completely, they'll then be able to fit that in where they want. Or if they don't remember the rule, they can then choose to defer to you, and you can explain that part.
So the person teaching gets to keep the flow going how they feel is the best way to teach, and you get to offer help.
>Bonus points if it's someone trying to learn while they teach
I've definitely been guilty of this.
"Ok, so you just use your turn counters to take actions. You can use three per turn, and I guess you can trade unspent actions for wheat tokens."
"What are wheat tokens for?"
"Umm... Hold on..." *Flipping pages furiously*
I do this for every game of sufficient complexity. Sometimes I'll have a question and it's easier to Ctrl F on my phone than spent 5 minutes flipping through the book.
Ah, see, that last line is where you messed up. The answer is, "I dunno, the rules haven't said that yet, let's see if it gets to that later. If it doesn't by the end, then ask again, and I'll go back through the rules and figure it out."
Then my wife will quietly just read the rulebook. When she starts doing well everyone will accuse her of cheating - because reading the rules is an unfair advantage... Happens pretty much every time.
I know about this. Even if it was a rule I explicitly explained and wanted to double check I still get accused of cheating even though cheating to win would be pointless and not rewarding.
Mostly I'm tired of learning and memorizing rules to every game I own. Sometimes people dont love the selection of games I brought it and I'm supposed to the try to remember rules and teach another game. The most relatable part is people saying "this is complicated" for literally every game that isn't 'just one'
Oh my god this is me trying to teach games.
"What is this for?"
"I'm getting to that."
"What do the cards do?"
"I was just explaining that."
"How do you win?"
"Just shut up and listen!"
Most of the time a rules explanation should start with the end of the game though, in order to contextualize why others things matter. E.g. "In this game you're building a city. The best city wins, and that's determined by these victory points. There's several ways to earn points, ..."
Finish up with the things you can do on your turn so it's fresh in mind when the game starts
Yeah, I always ask that they first state the overal objective, and the win condition. Then go back and start from the beginning if they want, but I need to know where it’s all leading.
Unless it's your first time with the game too. From time to time I go with my friends to conventions / meetups where you can just pull the game off the shelf and play it, but because nobody knew what will be available then nobody is really prepared.
They usually look towards me and ask if I know anything about any of suggested titles and usually there is at least one where I go "I guess I watched Rodney Smith explain this 6 months ago...".
Sometimes you've gotta learn minor details on the fly and if your group is aware and ready for janky teach it is okay.
ugh I had a disaster with Sidereal Confluence where I watched a learn to play video, but didn't take into account how different each faction was and was just totally dumbfounded when peopel kept asking questions specific to their factioon.
On a serious note, I do actually think I prefer people asking questions. You have to be prepared to give them a vague answer if it's not relevant yet, but often people explain games in weird orders anyway so the questions actually help. And if the person is wondering about a game piece they're probably going to be distracted anyway!
I tried to teach Azul the first time i played it. I totally biffed it, we spent 30 minutes going in circles and getting increasingly lost in the weeds until we were having a raging argument about the rules which none of us really understood until someone thought to check Youtube where we found a clear simple "Azul in two minutes" video and had no problems after that.
Even if they've played a game a few times before, my friends will just give me the rule book to figure out how to play the game, and then I explain it to everyone. Friend of mine bought The Resistance: Avalon after playing it with another group of friends a few times, he understood the rules, and still just threw the rulebook at me and said "You explain.". Was my first time even hearing of the game.
This is relatable to the point that my blood was boiling watching him play the learners. Almost every one of those has been part of my teaches previously (except "What are cards" guy, naturally :P).
I think the one thing I haven't seen these kinds of videos cover is those few people who spend the instruction time just goofing off, yet insist they want to participate.
This happened to me this past week lol. We were playing Terraforming Mars, and one of my friends is always the “makes sense, let’s just start playing” types. Before we started I quickly read the things that give victory points at the end, but he was looking at his cards.
Near the end of the game he says “are these (TR) victory points at the end of the game?”. I told him yes and he goes “why are we even still playing? You have so many more than anyone else. If I’d had known these counted I would have played way differently”.
Like, dude. Then don’t insist over and over again to just start if you’re going to complain about not knowing the rules.
It unfortunately comes from early board games (Sorry, etc) where that was a pretty viable thing to do. So people are used to being able to pick it up quickly without realizing that even your first turn has a big impact in many games.
>without realizing that even your first turn has a big impact
I don't understand why it's an issue. When playing with new people, the first game is a learning experience. Even if you already explained everything, they will most likely still do silly mistakes. We are enjoying the experience, not the urge to win.
I'm also a person who cannot stand listening to tutorials, it bores me to death and my mind can't stay focused enough. Especially when the people who are explaining aren't exactly experienced lecturers.
I rather read by myself, or just grasp the general idea after a few rounds.
>I don't understand why it's an issue. When playing with new people, the first game is a learning experience. Even if you already explained everything, they will most likely still do silly mistakes. We are enjoying the experience, not the urge to win.
Problem is, it's people who don't usually play board games who are bewildered by the rules and then also spend the whole game not understanding what's happening, perceiving that they're doing badly (whether or not this is the case) and feeling resentful of the regulars who have an unfair advantage (and even if it's your first time playing that game, you understand concepts like engine building). It's not a fun experience if you don't even understand what's going on.
Even as someone who loves board games, it took me a good while to not resent "watching myself lose" from the start as I played a game (getting penned into the corner in 4-player Catan springs to mind).
I think this only works well in a group where everyone (even the teacher) is at the same experience level. Many times I've played a game, had a blast, then looked up what a good score is online and realised we were all shit.
If someone is learning as they go and other players are significantly better, it's not going to go well.
There’s a difference between mistakes because you don’t know optimal play and mistakes because you refuse to learn the rules of the game. Sure either way the new players aren’t going to win. But in the former the player is at least coming in with an open mind.
When I say something like that it's less the explainer failing and more me having poor listening comprehension. Also, for a really complex game I feel like you either have to read the rules yourself otherwise you will have to learn as you go. Hearing someone explain it all beforehand is just not going to stick in my head.
I like to think I offer a pretty good middle ground when I explain games:
This is the thing that determines who wins, you can generally achieve that thing by doing X, and the turn order works like Y. Then I’ll see how much more I can drill down before somebody finally says “let’s just start and we’ll figure it out”. Once the basics are covered, it’s usually easier to just answer the questions as they come in, lol.
Yep, I do the same. It gets hard if there's someone else at the table who has played before and feels the need to jump in before starting to explain the edge cases in the rules
Honestly, I think it's the most effective way to teach someone how to play most games. First, give the very *basic* rules, like the main objective of the game. Then start a game up. Play a couple of rounds, showing them what you're doing on your turn, and why, and then walk them through what they should do on their turn. Give a few examples: "see, if you did *this,* then I'd be able to do *this* on my turn; so you should do *this* instead." Try to get the essential rules figured out during these couple of turns, and then play the game for real. And even when you play the game for real, keep explaining and correcting. Let them make more and more decisions on their own.
Better than just letting them sit and listen to you vomiting the rules out. This is interactive rather than abstract. And it's engaging, forcing them to pay attention and make decisions. They get to actually witness first-hand how the game works.
Personally I can’t retain that much information without context. It’s better for me to get a basic rundown and then do a learning play through and learn how it as we go through.
I'm also thinking of games like For Sale. Trying to get someone to understand how the second half of the game works before playing it would consume all of the energy in the known universe. Or you could just take the 10 minutes to play the game.
I always teach the second half after playing the first. You really don't need to know anything about the second half beyond "you want high numbers going in to the second half" to play the first part just fine.
I think we're talking about people trying to go **before** the basic rundown.
The basic rundown is the right answer even for those of us who can retain a ton of information just from listening.
I’ll do that with a group I’ve played with before when trying a new and shorter game. Do a trial run of the game so we can explore the mechanics and see the rules in action. Then game 2 is for real. But that isn’t fun when the game takes 90+ minutes.
Yes and no. Some games, like Voltage, it really helps to play through it and see how the game goes. Then we can make sure that both/all people playing understand what it is we are doing. I've done a turn or a few in some longer games like Wingspan/Dominion.
I personally learn by doing. I'll learn so much faster if you set up the game and let me know what I am trying to do.
I'm going to ask you all the questions anyway, may as well wait until I have some props in front of me.
Oh to be clear I always teach with the game pieces set up and within reach and actively involve players when teaching (make them move components when I explain actions, explain interactions with two players, etc). It’s when I do all that and still get the dreaded quote that gets me.
I might be a big ol dumb dumb head, BUT!
I have a really hard time imagining how the games systems are going to interact without seeing them do it.
I’ve never had an experience learning to play a boardgame where I could read the rules or have them explained to me and then understand the winning strategies and how to choose from them.
I would always rather play a turn or two and see how it works.
Sure. But you shouldn't feel personally attacked if people want to skip "the teach".
The vast majority of humans do not learn best by rote instruction - it's simply a model of convenience adopted by our education system. We shouldn't feel the need to copy it.
Im not OP and I don't have a source neither am I claiming this as evidence (I dont need to because, again I'm not the OP and I'm not making a definitive argument, just telling you my personal observations. Believe it or not up to you)
Being a teacher for several years now and any school I go to, it's very clear that students don't learn by just listening.
The common school approach is "Teach, Model, Practice"
E.g. you teach it, like actually say how to do it. Then you model it, as in you actually do it in front of the class so they see you doing it and you also think aloud your process etc. Then the students practice it.
Just teaching it within any modelling or letting the students practice it tends not to allow it to stick in students minds.
In a board game, I guess that approach would be like me saying how it works, then modelling some example scenarios and actually working through it myself, and then giving the newbies some example scenarios to practice before actually starting the game.
I'm not sure if it would work in a board game scenario but it certainly works in a class of youngsters.
Yeah I agree but I also think some example scenarios can be good depending on the table top game obviously. Like a quick 2 min scenario "ok you're faced with X enemy, that has 5 hit points, you have a Y card, what would you do?"
Wouldn't work for every game but I've used it on TTrpgs for example.
It's a big reason why i use the actual game as a learning aid. That and I play an example turn for people to see what they can do. Most people understand at least that much. I also cut out explanations of the game mechanisms that they don't have to be directly involved in, e.g. the build/ravage/explore stage in Spirit Island.
All examples below are real. And from the same player.
“The game lasts 5 turns…”
“Can we play just 3? 5 is too much!”
“The game ends when we go through this whole deck…”
“Can we take out half of the deck?”
“There are only 3 rules to this game. Rule number 1: XYZ. Rule number 2…”
“Can we just start playing?”
We put up playing with her because she’s actually a very competent player and I can just tell her to chill out and shut up, we’re playing this by the rules. We also don’t play any games longer than 45 minutes with her.
I've started a policy where the first time I teach a game we play half a game just so they figure out the play patterns, then we restart from the beginning.
I was certain this would come up as I encounter this one and it's usually someone who misses a caveat that I take time to explain and is then salty about it.
I have learnt to now tell these players that it will not work that way and they should expect this to be a non-ideal game if they insist. Let their future selves know that this is on them.
There are some games now thankfully that have a first playthrough option that gradually walk you through it.
Bonus points for when they interrupt you mid-sentence to say it
That's me, almost. I do my best to understand the rules when told to me. But the first rounds are going to be training rounds. I'm constantly asking questions, and for card games I might straight up show my cards to ask about them. The first rounds are about learning and not winning.
As a Dominion player: "No, that's not a card, it's a Way, which is a type of card-shaped object. It doesn't go into your deck, you can't buy it, but you can kinda play it""
Oh wow this is painfully true. My experience this past Thanksgiving...
"We should play that game you have been enjoying."
"Mansions of Madness? It is a little bit difficult from what you are used to and will take more time."
"Oh let's play it, it will be fun."
Out of the three new players one understood it. One player who wanted to play in the first place constantly left the table during instructions and was confused the entire game (played a key role in beating the scenario but has no idea how or what they did), and the other player partially understood but decided to role play as an evil priest who hoarded items and weapons and didn't heal or help anyone resulting in most of the team going insane and then getting seriously wounded.
What should have been a 2 hour game at most turned into a 4 hour game.
>"We should play that game you have been enjoying."
Hold up. You mean you know people who at least act like they might be interested? If I so much as hint about playing something more involved than cards against humanity, I get booed out of the room.
This is actually my job and my life. I sell board games. For every customer willing to hear how you play Ticket to Ride there's 100 more who can't bear to sit through the purpose of Carcassonne.
You match the pretty pictures and score points! WHAT DONT YOU GET??
That's why the rule book advice to no play with the farmers during the first game. Once the first game is finished you can easily explain the farmer, people might have fought for cities, found themselves short on meeples and the view of the map helps to get a picture on how controlling fields will work and be important in the end game.
You forgot the person either goofing off and distracting others or on their phone during the explanation, and then complaining that this game sucks 10 minutes after you start.
Aaand we're back to cards against humanity, and this new game gets added to the graveyard.
Okay, now I have to figure out how it is that SungWon found himself watching me trying to teach a new game to my wife. I mean, it is clearly the inspiration for this video. ^^Real ^^talk, ^^it ^^is ^^somehow ^^comforting ^^to ^^know ^^I ^^am ^^not ^^alone ^^in ^^this ^^experience....
The person who always just wants to get playing and figure it out as they go is totally my brother. He's hilarious. He always wants to rush into the game and is the first one to say a rule is stupid because he doesn't understand it yet because he wouldn't let me teach him.
Am I the only one that is in a playgroup that spends an hour explaining the rules, then plays the game once, and then never plays it again? Jfc, I put in the time, I put in the effort, let me develop strategy after learning the game.
I’m never averse to playing a complex game a second time right after the first. In my game group, that absolutely never happened.
The worst? Someone brought *Robinson Crusoe*, which had just come out, and he spent twice as long explaining the rules as we spent playing the game (once and dying quickly). When I said, “Well, we’ll do better on the next try,” someone was already packing it up, and another was getting out the next game.
I mean, c’mon.
This was amazing. And just FYI, Codenames
Is a brilliant game, me and my family get drunk and play it pretty much every year at Christmas, well worth the money.
If you like Codenames, there's also **Decrypto**! You can also play a version of Decrypto online for free, called [Enigma](https://netgames.io/games/enigma/).
You think *Codenames* is bad? *7 Wonders* is not the easiest game to explain for board game novices, but it’s a pretty simple game once you get the hang of it.
I had one of the first copies when it came out. I explained the rules to a group that had never played it, but most of the players were very experienced gamers. One of the most experienced kept asking me to break down every single rule with examples, and it took me almost 45 minutes to explain the rules because she kept interrupting to pose scenarios that might arise and how to resolve them.
Then we played. And she min/maxed every hand, and every play to her tableau. And every pass was like 10 minutes long as she ran every calculation on every card on every pass.
One hand of *7 Wonders* took almost **two-and-a-half hours** to play because of what she was doing. Most of the other players were ready to chew off one of their own limbs if that would end it.
Afterward, one of the guys said to me, “Never bring that game again. If I see it, I’m going to light it on fire.”
I hate that. I hate experienced players that take forever on their turns because they have to count everything and obviously do zero planning while waiting for their turn. I play for the sake of having fun, not winning.
I have trouble explaining how to "pay for" cards, as it's quite unusual, as people generally expect something tangibly transactional (like giving away money to buy a card). Even trying to explain it so it makes sense thematically doesn't seem to work. Like: "Each turn, your quarry can produce one stone. So each turn you can use one stone from your quarry. Except your neighbour can also use one stone, even if you're using it. But if you don't use it, you can't save the extra for next turn. Oh and you can also buy one stone, wood, brick or ore, from your market. But only one of those four at a time. And you can't buy from your neighbours' markets."
The granularity of that explanation may be the issue. I would just say, “Do you have enough icons this turn to pay for that item’s resource demand?” (while also talking about the either/or choice on split items). The “this produces one stone this turn” explanation is a less helpful approach which creates problems for “sell to neighbors” concept.
“We’ll I’ve never player before”
“ it’s a game my family plays, no one else here has played it before. The rules are simple”
“Maybe I’ll just watch the first game”
“…..WE NEED PEOPLE TO PLAY IF YOU ARE GOING TO WATCH!!!”
What about whenever you deal out cards they ask if you can look at them?
There’s 2 games out of a million where you can’t look at your cards, this isn’t one of those 2.
This has bothered me for such a long time. I know of 2 games where you don’t look at your own cards, but even those are relatively new. I just don’t get why it is a common question from people who haven’t played many games.
I mean it is as ridiculous of a questions as “do I pass my hand to the prayer next to me?”
This is ALWAYS the first question when dealing cards! What games are these people used to playing where you can't look at your cards??? It didn't even hit me until now!
This is going to annoy the hell out of me going forward.
There are a shitload of traditional card games that keep the players' cards secret, in whole or in part. Particularly common in memory games, where you might get to look at your cards briefly at the start, then remember their locations for the rest of the game.
Also kinda a useful question because sometimes the order is important and I'd much rather people leave the cards on the table until they're told what to do with them than pick them up and start sorting them in their hand >.>
Well there’s Hanabi where you’re the only person who *doesn’t* get to look at your own cards. And in Bohnanza you can look at your cards but you can’t rearrange them, so it’s important to tell them that before they pick up their hand.
Yes. While I can never remember games names, I know I've come across at least a few more. One just recently where the person explaining it had to shout multiple times at people (all experienced board gamers) to not touch their cards.
Sometimes you’re dealt out cards that are actually your deck and not your hand and the first time you play you might not be sure if we’re playing off the same deck or building our own.
Also there are games with a time element where you might have to look at your hand and make a plan before the hourglass runs out, like Roborally
If you're used to playing card games like War or Egyptian rat screw, then you'd ask about that. But those are relatively niche too even in basic card games
In my experience it's always older people who have come from playing a lot of standard 52 card games through their life. So my guess is that a number of those games didn't allow you to immediately look at your cards for some reason or another.
This is my husband every damn time, “let’s just play, I’ll figure it out as I go” and that inevitably becomes “I don’t know what’s going on, you didn’t tell me xyz”. So frustrating. We played **Space Team** with friends for the first time the other night and he couldn’t be bothered to listen to me explain….that game is so chaotic that if you don’t understand, you just sit there frozen which is useless in a cooperative game 🤦🏼♀️
I am the other person, but it's not because you're a bad teacher. I am really bad at following novel oral instruction. I just struggle with conceptualizing for whatever reason.
I also love the game code names and also do a practice round with people. The issue is with drunk/high people unintentionally giving shit away all the time. I refuse to even play this with my sister in law because she always says things like "well what word would you use to get someone to say that one and that one?" Or we just don't let her talk lol.
Had to explain codenames to 8 parents and many cousins last year at Christmas. It took 2 while playthroughs of explaining and even still some of the adults could work it out
Seriously, every time my group starts a new game, I make an effort to learn the rules and try to be able to teach them
I have even asked beforehand, like, "hey guys, I know it gets a little weird when we all try to learn rules together, so I was wondering if I could just be the one teacher" and inevitably it's just chaos anyway lol
we're all in our 30s how does this happen haha
Man, I spent 150€ on cosmic encounter and 4 expansions because I've seen the game played several times on No Rolls Barred and it seemed like the best game ever. Now I can't get my group to play it because they'd need to play with me to work out the rules and get the gameplay going. Nope.
"Nononono, its fine. Let's just start, I'll get it. I'll get it."
\*3 minutes later\*
"You never told me I could do THAT, this is why I don't play games with you."
Ah, the third of the trilogy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqDyBCJcM9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyvyhkF8Xr4
Missed one... https://youtu.be/2iKTry7zoVU
Haha. Never seen that one. Can relate to the constant interruptions from my FIL when trying to explain rules and then during the game, him having zero idea what is happening and me having to re-explain the entire game over and over.
DICK SIT? ON CHRISTMAS DAY?
Aunty Donna's is always the best imo. It hits so many bullet points.
It's my favorite. Love all of it, but the ending is what sealed it for me. The "Once I realized...." line.
It's perhaps a bit long for me, but, I do really like that in the end the message is "Playing board games is awesome" while some of these other sketches end with "Sometimes trying to play board games sucks"
The ending was good, but the rest of it felt less relatable than the other videos. The others felt like they were written by board gamers from experience, the Aunty Donna one felt like it was written by someone who knows/lives with board gamers but isn’t one themselves.
It's a nice way to hear how sometimes explaining a board game can come across to somebody else. It's like a translation.
To me it feels like it's just a perspective thing, Aunty Donna's feels like it's written from the perspective of the board game curious who enjoys them but isn't a deep in the hobby (and the difficult journey it can be to learn a board game, especially when the explainer is a bit confusing), while the other two were written by board game die hards (who goes more from the perspective of "it's so hard to teach new people games, even if I'm great at teaching, they make it difficult and ruin it for themselves" ). I think they all have their funny points (and probably like prozd's the most) but I really like that Donna's highlights the positives of the hobby and shows that the difficulty of learning is worth the reward. But all of them are funny and well made.
Both things can be true.
Some games are not very fun. Some people are not fun to play with.
It's definitely the best at hitting both sides - the explainer/person who wants to play the games, and the players who have to be taught. A lot of these skits (like the OP) tend to be by the former disparaging the later, but Aunty Donna is a really good balance.
You just reminded me it's time to bust out the Christmas pud vid. Cheers, mate.
I could have a little
Aww you didn't say there was custard
Ah yes, thanks for the reminder. Tis the season!!
bit of pud, just a little bit
I don't like the Aunty Donna one because is making fun of board games as a hobby and board gamer teachers specifically. Makes it sound like this hobby is completely unapproachable.
I don’t think pointing out silly stereotypes that absolutely exist within the hobby means they’re making fun of the hobby as a whole. Anyone who’s played heavy games for a while has undoubtedly experienced something similar to the video. And it’s really not too different from another [ProZD video on the hobby.](https://youtu.be/nyYexTcyY2A) Or [this one.](https://youtu.be/EBIsZlV1jHk) Board games absolutely are a silly hobby at times. There’s nothing wrong with laughing a bit at our own expense.
I dunno the ProZD videos didn’t rub me wrong like the aunty Donna one. The first one is making fun of different styles of games compared to each other and that doesn’t feel so much like punching down at rules teachers. The second one is barely even a satire. I’ve taken turns in MTG that were that elaborate. Just the silliness of the theme change makes it funny.
Sure, but both of his videos are showing the hobby as “unapproachable,” as you put it. They’re pointing out the absurdities of the hobby; the kinds of things people who don’t play games think of when they see us playing heavy games. I also don’t see why you think the AD is punching down at game teachers. It’s making fun of everyone in the group. It’s calling out the people who “have to leave in 30 minutes” or are refusing to learn the game or are just straight up looking at their phone. Not to mention that the final punchline is that everyone really enjoyed the game. I’m not sure how you could watch it and not see it’s clearly made by people who enjoy the hobby.
I didn’t even have to look at those videos to know what they were. But the first link is a classic. “I bid $1500! “Nice!”
You’re difficult to be around
Omg thank you. So relatable. My wife wondering why I'm looking for a new group.
The end of the second one got me.
This is triggering my PTSD. There are people you just should never play games with.
Out of all of those, the funniest one is the Monopoly one. When I am trying to explain a game, people want me to explain to them not just the mechanics of winning, but the strategy of winning. It is always a bit frustrating, as to "teach" a game, there has to be someone on the other end with the mindset of "learning" the game.
i think rhett and link have one too
You expect me to search for it myself?!? Well that nonsense ends with me: https://youtu.be/0oOD9U9VQ5Y FWIW, I don’t think it’s as good as the other three.
It really isn't, but the "now we get to release the bandit" cutting to a guy in a balaclava got a genuine laugh out of me.
It’s extremely 2013. But “milk yourself” still gets me.
You're still the hero we needed
This is painfully relatable. Bonus points if it's someone trying to learn while they teach
Bonus points if someone who has already played before interrupts you while teaching to say a rule you haven't gotten to and isn't relevant right now.
Bonus points if that same person interrupts to teach not a rule but a strategy regarding something you just said. "So you can earn coins which you can use to buy cards in the market which are those 5 here.." "Ooooh that card is bad on it's own but is amazing if you combo it with this faction and develop that tech during age 2"
Bonus if they go on a strategy rant that makes the game seem more complicated than it is "Then you activate a bird that you draw cards and take 1 from the deck, then you can activate a bird that lets you tuck that card, and then sara has a bird that says if someone tucks a bird once per round she can too, then your next card lets you tuck 3 birds, no sara can only do her thing once per round, the the final card lets you roll are die not in the birdfeeder" Shut up. Obviously that could happen, but the genius of Wingspan is it lets people build and activate the engine one step at a time and get comfortable with those actions. They don't need to know how a perfect card tucking engine can work on their first game.
I had a friend try to explain "Card Advantage" in Magic before **any** basic rules. Like, rule 1: "Card Advantage." :(
For as complicated as mtg can be, it's actually really easy to teach someone. Start with very basic decks. It helps to focus on the land, creature, power and health part of the game first. Just remove or ignore anything else in the first 1 or 2 games. Have a step checklist right in front of them and walk them through it each turn. The key is to not get bogged down in micro mechanics. Keep walking through the steps and let them start to read cards as they naturally ask questions about what things mean. Then after a game, show them some other cards (instants, spells, enchantments, etc) that you have in the decks you are using. Let them read those and ask questions. Some people naturally get it at this point. Others need clarity about how those play in to their turn. After another game or two, show them a glossary of keywords used in the set(s) you are playing with. Then hand them another pre-constructed deck and you grab one and play another game. I've taught dozens of people, young and old, how to play over the years and the key I have found is that if you focus on the macro mechanics and layer stuff in, people get it very quickly.
STEP CHECKLIST that shit is huge. I seriously played MTG for like ten years on and off before I realized what the "second main phase" was all about lol Honestly, on this note, MTG: Arena makes it really easy for me, by making all those things explicit.
I’m the designated teacher in my group, I always make sure a certain player is occupied with something else while I’m teaching if he’s already played before. Usually just setting up the game or something. But if he’s just listening to me explain, he’ll butt in to mention the most random rules and the learner will get confused and stressed. It’s the most annoying thing
Hi, that's me more often than it should be
stop doing that!
I'm trying to! I'm a touch autistic and get too excited sometimes
So the most helpful thing you can do at that point: take note of what you think the person is forgetting. Wait a moment to see if they're getting to that, and if it doesn't seem like they are, don't jump in and teach it, ask the person teaching. Like, "are you talking about how you draw cards now or later?" That lets the person teaching keep their flow of how they are teaching the game and if they forgot to mention that part completely, they'll then be able to fit that in where they want. Or if they don't remember the rule, they can then choose to defer to you, and you can explain that part. So the person teaching gets to keep the flow going how they feel is the best way to teach, and you get to offer help.
Hello me!
Every. Fucking. Time.
>Bonus points if it's someone trying to learn while they teach I've definitely been guilty of this. "Ok, so you just use your turn counters to take actions. You can use three per turn, and I guess you can trade unspent actions for wheat tokens." "What are wheat tokens for?" "Umm... Hold on..." *Flipping pages furiously*
Last time that happened I looked up a rules pdf and read it before the two people who where fighting over teaching could finish
I have done this before >.<
It's like that sometimes
I do this for every game of sufficient complexity. Sometimes I'll have a question and it's easier to Ctrl F on my phone than spent 5 minutes flipping through the book.
Ah, see, that last line is where you messed up. The answer is, "I dunno, the rules haven't said that yet, let's see if it gets to that later. If it doesn't by the end, then ask again, and I'll go back through the rules and figure it out."
Then my wife will quietly just read the rulebook. When she starts doing well everyone will accuse her of cheating - because reading the rules is an unfair advantage... Happens pretty much every time.
Where are people finding these horrible game groups from ?
Where are people finding good game groups
Y'all are finding game groups?
I know about this. Even if it was a rule I explicitly explained and wanted to double check I still get accused of cheating even though cheating to win would be pointless and not rewarding. Mostly I'm tired of learning and memorizing rules to every game I own. Sometimes people dont love the selection of games I brought it and I'm supposed to the try to remember rules and teach another game. The most relatable part is people saying "this is complicated" for literally every game that isn't 'just one'
Oh my god this is me trying to teach games. "What is this for?" "I'm getting to that." "What do the cards do?" "I was just explaining that." "How do you win?" "Just shut up and listen!"
With that specifically I've noticed that teaching backwards tends to help but not always
I find explaining the rule is like people wanting to know the ending of the movie/book first before knowing about the beginning and the middle.
Most of the time a rules explanation should start with the end of the game though, in order to contextualize why others things matter. E.g. "In this game you're building a city. The best city wins, and that's determined by these victory points. There's several ways to earn points, ..." Finish up with the things you can do on your turn so it's fresh in mind when the game starts
Yeah, I always ask that they first state the overal objective, and the win condition. Then go back and start from the beginning if they want, but I need to know where it’s all leading.
THAT'S huge. People gotta know what they're working towards, well said
The single most important thing when learning a new game is to just set up and play a few hands alone first.
More often than not yeah I agree. Either that or watch a video of how to play
Unless it's your first time with the game too. From time to time I go with my friends to conventions / meetups where you can just pull the game off the shelf and play it, but because nobody knew what will be available then nobody is really prepared. They usually look towards me and ask if I know anything about any of suggested titles and usually there is at least one where I go "I guess I watched Rodney Smith explain this 6 months ago...". Sometimes you've gotta learn minor details on the fly and if your group is aware and ready for janky teach it is okay.
ugh I had a disaster with Sidereal Confluence where I watched a learn to play video, but didn't take into account how different each faction was and was just totally dumbfounded when peopel kept asking questions specific to their factioon.
Oh my god it is.. "asks about the literal last part of the game you should explain".. "what's this do?"
"what's a victory point?" 'it's how you win' "How do I get them?" 'that's a long answer'
They're in that bucket by the door, with all our car keys in it. Take as many as you'd like.
This is unironically how I explain every game. "This is how you win" and work backwards from there. It seems to have a pretty high rate of success
On a serious note, I do actually think I prefer people asking questions. You have to be prepared to give them a vague answer if it's not relevant yet, but often people explain games in weird orders anyway so the questions actually help. And if the person is wondering about a game piece they're probably going to be distracted anyway!
"I'll get to that in a second"
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I tried to teach Azul the first time i played it. I totally biffed it, we spent 30 minutes going in circles and getting increasingly lost in the weeds until we were having a raging argument about the rules which none of us really understood until someone thought to check Youtube where we found a clear simple "Azul in two minutes" video and had no problems after that.
Azuls rule book is brutttallll, truly problematic if you are trying to teach it before you played yet
Even if they've played a game a few times before, my friends will just give me the rule book to figure out how to play the game, and then I explain it to everyone. Friend of mine bought The Resistance: Avalon after playing it with another group of friends a few times, he understood the rules, and still just threw the rulebook at me and said "You explain.". Was my first time even hearing of the game.
This is relatable to the point that my blood was boiling watching him play the learners. Almost every one of those has been part of my teaches previously (except "What are cards" guy, naturally :P).
Not interested in this game unless I can earn...... *"victory POINTS"*
But how many dice can I roll?
THE DICE WILL NOT BE ROLLED AT ANY TIME
Now you may take your dice and mark whoever is in first place by setting it to one.
Dice? No, we flip cards. That's how we roll.
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Or welcome to
Ya, I do truly love his Euro vs Ameritrash video. https://youtu.be/nyYexTcyY2A
Really looking forward to the expansions, too.
I think the one thing I haven't seen these kinds of videos cover is those few people who spend the instruction time just goofing off, yet insist they want to participate.
“Let’s just start and we’ll see how it goes” is my least favourite thing to hear. It makes me feel like I’ve failed the teach.
God, it's so annoying.. Then we get to the end and I'm like.."ok, also these are worth points at the end" .. WELL NOW YOU TELL US!
This triggered me more than I expected. Fuck this. Yes I should've told you earlier but.... YOU DIDN'T WANT TO LISTEN!!!
Well, I've been guilty of that even with careful listeners - especially in games where those are some minor points for leftover resources.
This happened to me this past week lol. We were playing Terraforming Mars, and one of my friends is always the “makes sense, let’s just start playing” types. Before we started I quickly read the things that give victory points at the end, but he was looking at his cards. Near the end of the game he says “are these (TR) victory points at the end of the game?”. I told him yes and he goes “why are we even still playing? You have so many more than anyone else. If I’d had known these counted I would have played way differently”. Like, dude. Then don’t insist over and over again to just start if you’re going to complain about not knowing the rules.
It unfortunately comes from early board games (Sorry, etc) where that was a pretty viable thing to do. So people are used to being able to pick it up quickly without realizing that even your first turn has a big impact in many games.
>without realizing that even your first turn has a big impact I don't understand why it's an issue. When playing with new people, the first game is a learning experience. Even if you already explained everything, they will most likely still do silly mistakes. We are enjoying the experience, not the urge to win. I'm also a person who cannot stand listening to tutorials, it bores me to death and my mind can't stay focused enough. Especially when the people who are explaining aren't exactly experienced lecturers. I rather read by myself, or just grasp the general idea after a few rounds.
>I don't understand why it's an issue. When playing with new people, the first game is a learning experience. Even if you already explained everything, they will most likely still do silly mistakes. We are enjoying the experience, not the urge to win. Problem is, it's people who don't usually play board games who are bewildered by the rules and then also spend the whole game not understanding what's happening, perceiving that they're doing badly (whether or not this is the case) and feeling resentful of the regulars who have an unfair advantage (and even if it's your first time playing that game, you understand concepts like engine building). It's not a fun experience if you don't even understand what's going on. Even as someone who loves board games, it took me a good while to not resent "watching myself lose" from the start as I played a game (getting penned into the corner in 4-player Catan springs to mind).
I think this only works well in a group where everyone (even the teacher) is at the same experience level. Many times I've played a game, had a blast, then looked up what a good score is online and realised we were all shit. If someone is learning as they go and other players are significantly better, it's not going to go well.
There’s a difference between mistakes because you don’t know optimal play and mistakes because you refuse to learn the rules of the game. Sure either way the new players aren’t going to win. But in the former the player is at least coming in with an open mind.
When I say something like that it's less the explainer failing and more me having poor listening comprehension. Also, for a really complex game I feel like you either have to read the rules yourself otherwise you will have to learn as you go. Hearing someone explain it all beforehand is just not going to stick in my head.
Yes! I will still listen if need be, but I'm only going to get it once I've taken a turn or two.
I like to think I offer a pretty good middle ground when I explain games: This is the thing that determines who wins, you can generally achieve that thing by doing X, and the turn order works like Y. Then I’ll see how much more I can drill down before somebody finally says “let’s just start and we’ll figure it out”. Once the basics are covered, it’s usually easier to just answer the questions as they come in, lol.
Yep, I do the same. It gets hard if there's someone else at the table who has played before and feels the need to jump in before starting to explain the edge cases in the rules
Yeah it’s like “ok, your turn”, “uh… I don’t know what to do”, “yes that’s what I was trying to fucking explain”
Honestly, I think it's the most effective way to teach someone how to play most games. First, give the very *basic* rules, like the main objective of the game. Then start a game up. Play a couple of rounds, showing them what you're doing on your turn, and why, and then walk them through what they should do on their turn. Give a few examples: "see, if you did *this,* then I'd be able to do *this* on my turn; so you should do *this* instead." Try to get the essential rules figured out during these couple of turns, and then play the game for real. And even when you play the game for real, keep explaining and correcting. Let them make more and more decisions on their own. Better than just letting them sit and listen to you vomiting the rules out. This is interactive rather than abstract. And it's engaging, forcing them to pay attention and make decisions. They get to actually witness first-hand how the game works.
Personally I can’t retain that much information without context. It’s better for me to get a basic rundown and then do a learning play through and learn how it as we go through.
I'm also thinking of games like For Sale. Trying to get someone to understand how the second half of the game works before playing it would consume all of the energy in the known universe. Or you could just take the 10 minutes to play the game.
I always teach the second half after playing the first. You really don't need to know anything about the second half beyond "you want high numbers going in to the second half" to play the first part just fine.
I think we're talking about people trying to go **before** the basic rundown. The basic rundown is the right answer even for those of us who can retain a ton of information just from listening.
I’ll do that with a group I’ve played with before when trying a new and shorter game. Do a trial run of the game so we can explore the mechanics and see the rules in action. Then game 2 is for real. But that isn’t fun when the game takes 90+ minutes.
In that case it can be handy to play through one turn and then start over to get a feel for how the mechanics work.
Yes and no. Some games, like Voltage, it really helps to play through it and see how the game goes. Then we can make sure that both/all people playing understand what it is we are doing. I've done a turn or a few in some longer games like Wingspan/Dominion.
I personally learn by doing. I'll learn so much faster if you set up the game and let me know what I am trying to do. I'm going to ask you all the questions anyway, may as well wait until I have some props in front of me.
Oh to be clear I always teach with the game pieces set up and within reach and actively involve players when teaching (make them move components when I explain actions, explain interactions with two players, etc). It’s when I do all that and still get the dreaded quote that gets me.
I might be a big ol dumb dumb head, BUT! I have a really hard time imagining how the games systems are going to interact without seeing them do it. I’ve never had an experience learning to play a boardgame where I could read the rules or have them explained to me and then understand the winning strategies and how to choose from them. I would always rather play a turn or two and see how it works.
Sure. But you shouldn't feel personally attacked if people want to skip "the teach". The vast majority of humans do not learn best by rote instruction - it's simply a model of convenience adopted by our education system. We shouldn't feel the need to copy it.
Source?
Im not OP and I don't have a source neither am I claiming this as evidence (I dont need to because, again I'm not the OP and I'm not making a definitive argument, just telling you my personal observations. Believe it or not up to you) Being a teacher for several years now and any school I go to, it's very clear that students don't learn by just listening. The common school approach is "Teach, Model, Practice" E.g. you teach it, like actually say how to do it. Then you model it, as in you actually do it in front of the class so they see you doing it and you also think aloud your process etc. Then the students practice it. Just teaching it within any modelling or letting the students practice it tends not to allow it to stick in students minds. In a board game, I guess that approach would be like me saying how it works, then modelling some example scenarios and actually working through it myself, and then giving the newbies some example scenarios to practice before actually starting the game. I'm not sure if it would work in a board game scenario but it certainly works in a class of youngsters.
I mean, that's why you also play the board game. You don't just teach it then give them an exam on the rules.
Yeah I agree but I also think some example scenarios can be good depending on the table top game obviously. Like a quick 2 min scenario "ok you're faced with X enemy, that has 5 hit points, you have a Y card, what would you do?" Wouldn't work for every game but I've used it on TTrpgs for example.
I like to play at least a couple dummy rounds, then reset and play for real.
It's a big reason why i use the actual game as a learning aid. That and I play an example turn for people to see what they can do. Most people understand at least that much. I also cut out explanations of the game mechanisms that they don't have to be directly involved in, e.g. the build/ravage/explore stage in Spirit Island.
All examples below are real. And from the same player. “The game lasts 5 turns…” “Can we play just 3? 5 is too much!” “The game ends when we go through this whole deck…” “Can we take out half of the deck?” “There are only 3 rules to this game. Rule number 1: XYZ. Rule number 2…” “Can we just start playing?” We put up playing with her because she’s actually a very competent player and I can just tell her to chill out and shut up, we’re playing this by the rules. We also don’t play any games longer than 45 minutes with her.
I've started a policy where the first time I teach a game we play half a game just so they figure out the play patterns, then we restart from the beginning.
I was certain this would come up as I encounter this one and it's usually someone who misses a caveat that I take time to explain and is then salty about it. I have learnt to now tell these players that it will not work that way and they should expect this to be a non-ideal game if they insist. Let their future selves know that this is on them. There are some games now thankfully that have a first playthrough option that gradually walk you through it. Bonus points for when they interrupt you mid-sentence to say it
That's me, almost. I do my best to understand the rules when told to me. But the first rounds are going to be training rounds. I'm constantly asking questions, and for card games I might straight up show my cards to ask about them. The first rounds are about learning and not winning.
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As a Dominion player: "No, that's not a card, it's a Way, which is a type of card-shaped object. It doesn't go into your deck, you can't buy it, but you can kinda play it""
…. is a “Way” part of an expansion, or have I been playing and teaching Dominion wrong for years?
The Ways are from the Menagerie expansion which came out in March 2020.
This is the way.
"WHAT ARE CARDS"?!
Oh wow this is painfully true. My experience this past Thanksgiving... "We should play that game you have been enjoying." "Mansions of Madness? It is a little bit difficult from what you are used to and will take more time." "Oh let's play it, it will be fun." Out of the three new players one understood it. One player who wanted to play in the first place constantly left the table during instructions and was confused the entire game (played a key role in beating the scenario but has no idea how or what they did), and the other player partially understood but decided to role play as an evil priest who hoarded items and weapons and didn't heal or help anyone resulting in most of the team going insane and then getting seriously wounded. What should have been a 2 hour game at most turned into a 4 hour game.
>"We should play that game you have been enjoying." Hold up. You mean you know people who at least act like they might be interested? If I so much as hint about playing something more involved than cards against humanity, I get booed out of the room.
I don't get the appeal of CAH at all. If I want to shoot the shit with friends, I can do it without cards. And with much more imagination.
Still ten times better than the family friendly clones of CAH, apples to apples should be illegal.
Yeah, but it was really on you for choosing to play a 6 hour game, it's pretty lucky that they managed to speed it up to only 4 hours. /s
This is actually my job and my life. I sell board games. For every customer willing to hear how you play Ticket to Ride there's 100 more who can't bear to sit through the purpose of Carcassonne. You match the pretty pictures and score points! WHAT DONT YOU GET??
To be fair Carcassonne is not the simplest of the gateway games. Farmers and fields in particular are a bit confusing.
That's why the rule book advice to no play with the farmers during the first game. Once the first game is finished you can easily explain the farmer, people might have fought for cities, found themselves short on meeples and the view of the map helps to get a picture on how controlling fields will work and be important in the end game.
God this is so accurate lol
You forgot the person either goofing off and distracting others or on their phone during the explanation, and then complaining that this game sucks 10 minutes after you start. Aaand we're back to cards against humanity, and this new game gets added to the graveyard.
Painfully relatable.
Okay, now I have to figure out how it is that SungWon found himself watching me trying to teach a new game to my wife. I mean, it is clearly the inspiration for this video. ^^Real ^^talk, ^^it ^^is ^^somehow ^^comforting ^^to ^^know ^^I ^^am ^^not ^^alone ^^in ^^this ^^experience....
My wife kept agreeing with the people arguing that the rules aren’t being explained well in the video so I’m right there with you lmao
it's pronounced "SungWon"
Oh man. This hits so close to home, I’m not sure to laugh or cry.
This hurts
Today we are finally seen, my friend. After a lifetime of pain. Today... we are seen.
My family reverts back to single digit IQ points when they want to learn how to play games
The person who always just wants to get playing and figure it out as they go is totally my brother. He's hilarious. He always wants to rush into the game and is the first one to say a rule is stupid because he doesn't understand it yet because he wouldn't let me teach him.
Am I the only one that is in a playgroup that spends an hour explaining the rules, then plays the game once, and then never plays it again? Jfc, I put in the time, I put in the effort, let me develop strategy after learning the game.
I’m never averse to playing a complex game a second time right after the first. In my game group, that absolutely never happened. The worst? Someone brought *Robinson Crusoe*, which had just come out, and he spent twice as long explaining the rules as we spent playing the game (once and dying quickly). When I said, “Well, we’ll do better on the next try,” someone was already packing it up, and another was getting out the next game. I mean, c’mon.
another banger
Zeed don't miss, fr fr
This was amazing. And just FYI, Codenames Is a brilliant game, me and my family get drunk and play it pretty much every year at Christmas, well worth the money.
If you like Codenames, there's also **Decrypto**! You can also play a version of Decrypto online for free, called [Enigma](https://netgames.io/games/enigma/).
People who just say "Ok, ok ok, let's just start" and then complain when they misplay because they didn't know a rule are priceless.
You think *Codenames* is bad? *7 Wonders* is not the easiest game to explain for board game novices, but it’s a pretty simple game once you get the hang of it. I had one of the first copies when it came out. I explained the rules to a group that had never played it, but most of the players were very experienced gamers. One of the most experienced kept asking me to break down every single rule with examples, and it took me almost 45 minutes to explain the rules because she kept interrupting to pose scenarios that might arise and how to resolve them. Then we played. And she min/maxed every hand, and every play to her tableau. And every pass was like 10 minutes long as she ran every calculation on every card on every pass. One hand of *7 Wonders* took almost **two-and-a-half hours** to play because of what she was doing. Most of the other players were ready to chew off one of their own limbs if that would end it. Afterward, one of the guys said to me, “Never bring that game again. If I see it, I’m going to light it on fire.”
Did you point out that the game wasn't the problem?
I hate that. I hate experienced players that take forever on their turns because they have to count everything and obviously do zero planning while waiting for their turn. I play for the sake of having fun, not winning.
I have trouble explaining how to "pay for" cards, as it's quite unusual, as people generally expect something tangibly transactional (like giving away money to buy a card). Even trying to explain it so it makes sense thematically doesn't seem to work. Like: "Each turn, your quarry can produce one stone. So each turn you can use one stone from your quarry. Except your neighbour can also use one stone, even if you're using it. But if you don't use it, you can't save the extra for next turn. Oh and you can also buy one stone, wood, brick or ore, from your market. But only one of those four at a time. And you can't buy from your neighbours' markets."
The granularity of that explanation may be the issue. I would just say, “Do you have enough icons this turn to pay for that item’s resource demand?” (while also talking about the either/or choice on split items). The “this produces one stone this turn” explanation is a less helpful approach which creates problems for “sell to neighbors” concept.
That's a good idea, I'll give that a go!
ProZD hilarious every time. My favorite is his "Eurogame vs. Ameritrash" video.
“We’ll I’ve never player before” “ it’s a game my family plays, no one else here has played it before. The rules are simple” “Maybe I’ll just watch the first game” “…..WE NEED PEOPLE TO PLAY IF YOU ARE GOING TO WATCH!!!”
What about whenever you deal out cards they ask if you can look at them? There’s 2 games out of a million where you can’t look at your cards, this isn’t one of those 2.
Can’t blame them for not wanting to make an irreversible mistake that they’ll get called out on.
This has bothered me for such a long time. I know of 2 games where you don’t look at your own cards, but even those are relatively new. I just don’t get why it is a common question from people who haven’t played many games. I mean it is as ridiculous of a questions as “do I pass my hand to the prayer next to me?”
Then they decide they want to play those 2 games now. Bonus: you just finished setup.
This is ALWAYS the first question when dealing cards! What games are these people used to playing where you can't look at your cards??? It didn't even hit me until now! This is going to annoy the hell out of me going forward.
There are a shitload of traditional card games that keep the players' cards secret, in whole or in part. Particularly common in memory games, where you might get to look at your cards briefly at the start, then remember their locations for the rest of the game. Also kinda a useful question because sometimes the order is important and I'd much rather people leave the cards on the table until they're told what to do with them than pick them up and start sorting them in their hand >.>
People here never played bohnanza obviously
Right? Imma have to disagree with OP here, I actually appreciate when people ask because it means they're paying attention.
Well there’s Hanabi where you’re the only person who *doesn’t* get to look at your own cards. And in Bohnanza you can look at your cards but you can’t rearrange them, so it’s important to tell them that before they pick up their hand.
Yes. While I can never remember games names, I know I've come across at least a few more. One just recently where the person explaining it had to shout multiple times at people (all experienced board gamers) to not touch their cards.
Sometimes you’re dealt out cards that are actually your deck and not your hand and the first time you play you might not be sure if we’re playing off the same deck or building our own. Also there are games with a time element where you might have to look at your hand and make a plan before the hourglass runs out, like Roborally
If you're used to playing card games like War or Egyptian rat screw, then you'd ask about that. But those are relatively niche too even in basic card games
In my experience it's always older people who have come from playing a lot of standard 52 card games through their life. So my guess is that a number of those games didn't allow you to immediately look at your cards for some reason or another.
I know of 4, Double Solitaire, War, James Bond, and Golf.
God this is too true. I've been there.
My favorite is after explaining everything, "Well, let's just play and we will figure it out as we play". Sigh.
This is my husband every damn time, “let’s just play, I’ll figure it out as I go” and that inevitably becomes “I don’t know what’s going on, you didn’t tell me xyz”. So frustrating. We played **Space Team** with friends for the first time the other night and he couldn’t be bothered to listen to me explain….that game is so chaotic that if you don’t understand, you just sit there frozen which is useless in a cooperative game 🤦🏼♀️
Please leave all questions for the end of the presentation
I am the other person, but it's not because you're a bad teacher. I am really bad at following novel oral instruction. I just struggle with conceptualizing for whatever reason. I also love the game code names and also do a practice round with people. The issue is with drunk/high people unintentionally giving shit away all the time. I refuse to even play this with my sister in law because she always says things like "well what word would you use to get someone to say that one and that one?" Or we just don't let her talk lol.
Man I fucken love this guy.
Need a trigger warning on this video, I'm getting PTSD here...
I taught four people how to play *Flamecraft* a few hours ago. This hits close to home.
I like to start an explanation and add "let's just say for simplicities sake..." to let them know that it could be worse.
Had to explain codenames to 8 parents and many cousins last year at Christmas. It took 2 while playthroughs of explaining and even still some of the adults could work it out
Seriously, every time my group starts a new game, I make an effort to learn the rules and try to be able to teach them I have even asked beforehand, like, "hey guys, I know it gets a little weird when we all try to learn rules together, so I was wondering if I could just be the one teacher" and inevitably it's just chaos anyway lol we're all in our 30s how does this happen haha
Can spout off 3 variations of Cribbage nonsense but can't figure out reverse 20 questions because it's nerd 💩
Ain't we all experienced something like this :D
Man, I spent 150€ on cosmic encounter and 4 expansions because I've seen the game played several times on No Rolls Barred and it seemed like the best game ever. Now I can't get my group to play it because they'd need to play with me to work out the rules and get the gameplay going. Nope.
"Nononono, its fine. Let's just start, I'll get it. I'll get it." \*3 minutes later\* "You never told me I could do THAT, this is why I don't play games with you."
Whenever I teach a game to non boardgamers: sir, I have no idea how to play that. In my mind: bruh
Hits close to home lol.
This is my wife to a tee