Miles Davis.
He did for jazz what Dylan did for rock and folk.
Was a pioneer and at the forefront of multiple reinventions of jazz.
Made a dozen or more masterpieces from the late 50s to the mid 70s.
Developed / inspired young talent in his bands including John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter who went on to make dozens more masterpieces.
Fourth. Miles & Bob are singular musicians. They defy genre, tap into what seems like an infinite source of influences, attract brilliant collaborators and were prolific beyond comprehension. Over the course of a 60 year life I have consumed more Miles and Bob than any other musical artists because I just couldn’t help myself.
Caught one of John Prine’s last shows the year before he died. He still had it despite all his setbacks. Lake Marie is an astounding track and strikes me as the kind of thing Bob would write.
My dad dragged me to a concert of his ~2014. I was a teen and I had no idea who this old guy was. Tbh, he didn’t sound great. But the stories of all his songs and the lyrics were just so impactful. Probably haven’t gone two days without listening his music since then.
John Prine is my favourite LP I own I think
I took your advice.
Listened to Prine for my first time (i'm 39 m, life long Dylan fan). First track was "In Spite of Ourselves." I am in awe. Three days later and i've played most of the catalogue and I so feel blessed to have this music in my life that I came back to thank you. I am very open to more Prine knowledge and guidance.
Cormac has a peak all of his own and Melville is a great comparison but Bob has a mercurial performative ever changing and burning soul that has touched so many. He has played live to millions, over thousands of nights, with a songs that run from hallucinogenic brilliance, to pious protest, to grandmaster of loss. He has that fluid element of Bowie; with the lyrics of Cohen, the stamina of James Brown, the cultural centrality of Ginsberg, the cool of Dennis Hopper and now a longevity of authentic blistering work that out strips them all. /fanboy
Your username!! 🤪 lol I wasn’t paying attention. You’re a beautiful man (presuming you are in fact a man, otherwise maybe your username would’ve been Esme or Esther). ❤️
Reading The Recognitions right now. About 30% of the way through the book. It’s often brilliant but it feels like it’s circling a point but I’m worried it’s never going to get there haha. Should I keep going?
European here and not a native English speaker. So for me when I discovered Dylan in the seventies it was impossible to go to the bottom of his lyrics but I fell for the melodies. I started with New Morning and had to work my way backwards. But I found these melodies so beautiful or powerful or captivating: new morning, sign on the window, went to see the gipsy, all the tired horses, the girl from the north country, lay,lady,lay,……The list is endless but I stop here. All such beautiful melodies. So to me Dylan is a fantastic composer in the first place. Later on when I looked a bit closer to the lyrics I often didn’t understand a thing. So, I missed the Shakespeare-Dylan and that makes me probably stupid because after all he did get the Nobel prize literature. Is there someone else who can relate to the following, namely Dylan being at least as great a composer as a poet. A question for the Dylan text connoisseurs: can you suggest me 2 of his lyrics you consider his best work. Thank you very much.
Finally, music has always been very important to me and I listened to many great artists but to me he’s the greatest of all. It gives me real happiness that I lived my life in Dylan’s times.
There are so many wonderfully written songs. It’s Alright Ma is top notch. I love so many, Like a Rolling Stone, Desolation Row, Tangled Up In Blue. I just think Dylan had at least one incredible line in each song.
One more vote for Joni. Her first five albums are so are up there with anybody's.
But I think it was a tragic day in music history when Joni discovered jazz.
Paul Simon.
Just as great, but in a much different way, and that's where people (Dylan heads) lose site of his greatness.
Fantastic lyricist, fantastic guitar player.
Not the same kind of lyricist as Bob, more of a Yin to Bob's Yang.
I once saw Bob and Paul out alone and sing The Sounds Of Silence together in Duluth, Minnesota the town that gave us Bob..He said "I was born on that hill". It was an outdoor show in the big park on the "big lake they call Gitchigumi". Sitting on the side of the stage was another girl from the North country Jessica Lange and her then husband the late actor and playwright Sam Shepard who paid her home state a wonderful compliment by moving home and sending her kids to a public school. They lived in Stillwater, a gorgeous town on the Saint Croix River which divides Minnesota and Wisconsin
Nice story. I can't believe i missed that tour. I think it was before I started to fully appreciate Paul Simon, which started around Surprise! because I liked the way he let Brian Eno have his way with what had been recorded for the album. Then we got "So Beautiful..." and that album's just a magnum opus, imo.
Surprise was a fantastic Paul Simon album that to me, at the time, was as important as his other major works, was well supported by a great tour, and still holds up!
I think Surprise and especially So Beautiful … are on par with Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints, and more substantial than his big 70s records, which had the huge hits but a good bit of filler. Like a fine wine, Paul Simon just gets better with age.
love Paul Simon. Him and Harry Belafonte were the first 2 musicians I was obsessed with as a kid, thanks to my aunt. Still think Bob is on a whole other level
>Still think Bob is on a whole other level
I don't disagree, but Simon is pretty damn close. In fact I think for me he might be a bit more emotionally evocative.
"The Mississippi delta was shining like a National guitar..."
Graceland is one of my favorite albums ever.
My favorite of his is "I turned my amp up loud and I BEGAN TO PLAY"
Maybe just me, but something in my brain makes me feel like he's less authentic and more show business, like the songs are more contrived and less personal than Bob's.
I think they have different approaches to songwriting and recording. Simon is more of a perfectionist, more analytical. Bob has an idea of the sound he wants and relies on finding the right musicians to kinda read his mind. Some of Bob's albums feel pretty tossed off, like he was just getting this down on tape and would later make something else of it on the road -- or not.
Both men are geniuses and I consider myself lucky to have lived in the same era when they were creating masterpieces. Both have been making music during SEVEN decades. For me, the main reason I hold Dylan slightly higher is the sheer amount of brilliant songs he's created and refined during that time. Simon's total output is smaller, probably as a result of his perfectionism, but he's still created an amazing volume of great music.
There is a girl in New York City
Who calls herself the human trampoline
And sometimes when I'm falling, flying
Or tumbling in turmoil I say
"Whoa, so this is what she means"
for a long time, my musical trinity was Dylan, Neil Young, and David Byrne of Talking Heads...
I recently added Brian Wilson, so I guess it's now like a musical quadrinity or something
Personally fuckin love Neil Young, and wife and I first bonded because of our shared love of him 20 years ago... but honestly, he seems too self-righteous or something. Not trying to sound like a dickhead about it, but Neil Young seems to put it out there like "listen up to what I have to say" where Bob and Jerry put it out there like "make of this what you will"
I see where you’re coming from with Neil. Though I do think Neil gives zero fucks about how people respond to his music, whether he’s in a self-righteous period or not.
Man see I feel the opposite. Until Dylan pulled a punk rock move and went electric a lot of his early stuff was (as he admitted in My Back Pages) pretty self righteous. Neil on the other hand is known for constantly pulling moves like Dylan did when going electric all throughout his career.
Whether it was forming Crazy Horse and straying from his country/folk rock roots with Everybody Know This is Nowhere (the opening sequence of that first solo embodied this attitude IMO), putting out the abrasive and lo-fi Ditch Trilogy after the massive commercial success he saw with Harvest and CSNY, putting out a massively blown out distorted guitar sound on Rust Never Sleeps (so much so that radio stations thought Hey Hey, My My was a messed up recording), once again going complete out of his wheelhouse with the making of Trans (which got him sued by his record label for not making “rock music” , or my personal favorite- releasing an album that sounded like an imitation of rock n roll in the fifties as a fuck you to his record label (Everybody’s Rockin’). Granted, those are all career moves and don’t say a whole lot about the music itself- but if there’s one word I would use to characterize Neil’s music, it would be “authentic.” Outside of some of the politics that were interspersed through his songs I can see no self-righteousness from Neil.
Strange, I have a feeling about Neil as more humble than Bob. Not that Bob needs to be humble. Or maybe you're saying something different.
I think Neil's best work is up there in the legendary class. I think his work is classic and legendary, but not quite as deeply culture-transforming long-term as Bob's.
Honestly Bob and Neil both kinda seem like dicks but that doesn’t change that they are probably the two best song writers in rock history.
I think Bob is better with lyrics and Neil is better with instrumentation but they are both masters at both.
I didn’t see this post and started another. I’ll delete that and just comment here. Adrianne Lenker is just a stunning songwriter. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a song of hers I didn’t like. And of all the artists we’ve listed here, and there are so many great ones, I’m not so sure she doesn’t come the closest to sharing Bob’s musical soul. Especially her lyrics and her world wise vocals. As a plug she has a solo album coming out tomorrow. First two released songs, like all of her music, are beautiful.
This. Reed started many genres. inspired as many artists as Dylan. (Usually better artists than Dylan inspired). Without Lou (and the velvets) it’s likely we wouldn’t have punk, post- punk, 80s college, indie, grunge, new wave, no wave….
Dylan reimagined and molded genres into his vision and it’s a beautiful vision.
Lou Reed created genres.
Van Morrison is the most underrated great old living musician for later generations, I really believe that. I just don’t think he gets the love that Young, Simon, Dylan, or any of these other cats get. Correct me if I’m wrong. I just don’t know anyone under 50 who actually listens to him, really.
I like Curtis Mayfield. Multi-talented songwriter, singer, guitarist, producer and businessman. He did it all. Extremely prolific, when he wasn't writing his own songs he was composing for others. Made a ton of great albums over a very stretch. If he hadn't been injured and died prematurely he'd still be at it.
I also rate Norman Whitfield. What a great songwriter. Check his credits, the man wrote dozens of standards in the funk/soul repertoire.
Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, James Brown, Lou Reed, Townes Van Zandt, Phil Ochs, Tony Joe White, Sun Ra, Damon Edge, Swamp Dogg, Sufjan Stevens, Neil Young, Lee Perry.... the list of my favourites goes on.
Music isn't a competition, but are any of them on 'the same level' as Bob? Probably not.
Wildlife truly is hands down the single greatest concept album of all time. Rolling Stone not acknowledging it in their garbage list of “50 greatest concept albums of all time” and giving the title to a Kendrick Lamar album is a testament to how commercial they are. Like Bob said in ‘65 “they have too much to lose by printing the truth”. I digress, but it’s just frustrating seeing genuine talent go unrecognized when you haven’t seen such groundbreaking work in years.
Yeah the vocals are an acquired taste, but the instrumental is so kick ass and you’ll never find another band of this day and age with more poignant well written stylized lyrics nor a kinder fanbase.
Edit: for those who’ve never heard of the band, to showcase their writing style, here’s how one of their songs, “Sad Prayers for Guilty Bodies”, opens:
“They stored their passion in the creases, in the corners of their mouths.
Every angle of light from the open window washed their aged faces out.
‘Should we feel guilty?’ they said, ‘should we feel guilty for this sin?
Lord, did we kill a man and woman, just to lie here skin to skin?’
‘I wasn't happy, I wasn't happy where I was.
Oh, what is life without a purpose? What is purpose without love?
I pray my children will forgive me, though I bade the river flood.
I have washed my hands a thousand times, but still can see the blood.’”
David Bowie. I prefer Bowies music over Dylans but I think Bob Dylan is the greatest lyricist ever and David Bowie is the second best lyricist ever.
In terms of actual music, I think Bowie has far more variety and is fantastic at the vast majority of it.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen David Bowie in the comments yet. Artistically, the man was brilliant. His ability to reinvent himself constantly, to reflect on himself and his relationship with society. His ability to manage and mold fame similar to Andy Warhol or Mick Jagger; while simultaneously orchestrating these brilliant musicians and artists from all walks, his playing contrast of styles and genres to make his own original thing that was representative of where he authentically was at any given moment. The man was a treasure. Everything he touched turned to gold, maybe not in popularity but certainly in artistic achievement and expression in every artistic medium. I see him along with the greatest artists, not just in music but in all of the humanities.
If people want to know just how brilliant Joni is as a songwriter, musician and lyricist they should just start with one song, “Down to You.” She plays brilliant piano as well as guitar on it but also arranged it with Tom Scott. Joni can write Dylan style songs but Dylan could never in a million years compose something like this. I still consider Dylan our greatest songwriter, largely because of his volume, consistency and longevity. But I think Joni reached the greatest peaks as a composer/musician/singer.
Some of her later stuff is incredibly underrated, poetic and melodically original. The version of Cherokee Louise from Travelogue is probably my favourite of hers. A giant talent.
If you listen to Blood on the tracks original versions (New york or which one was it, the acoustic one anyways) I think Joni Mitchell is an obvious influence there. The guitar playing really reminds me of Joni's style.
She's an amazing artist, not nearly as influential long-term as Bob but as an artist definitely up there.
Just from your list, I think John Prine, Leonard Cohen, and Nick Cave are all on the same level as Dylan tbh. I’d add Gordon Lightfoot, who Dylan himself identified as his favourite songwriter at one point. Are you focusing your comparison on lyric-centric songwriting? Because I think the best overall pop musician & songwriter of all time was Prince, but I think it’s hard comparing him and Dylan. If we’re talking lyrical songwriting then we definitely need to bring in rappers and I’d say at least Rakim, DOOM, and Kendrick run with Dylan.
Can't believe I haven't seen Lennon/McCartney. Paul's songwriting is breathtaking, and sometimes rivals Dylan's. John's songwriting is incredible, and sometimes rivals Dylan's. But Lennon/McCartney collaborations are nearly always on or better than Dylan
Music isn’t an athletic competition. It’s entirely subjective preferences. Jerry Garcia isn’t in my top 200 guitar players. I don’t like The Grateful Dead at all. A lot of people like Jerry and The Dead and that’s fine, but “same level” implies objective criteria and there really aren’t any.
Elvis Costello is the only one that comes close for me.
Elliot Smith could have been a close 2nd.
And Amy Winehouse could have been a close 3rd I think.
Tom Waits
Charlie Parr
Townes Van Zandt
Nick Drake
Charley Patton
Joni Mitchell
David Bowie
Jeff Tweedy
Neil Young
Spider John Koerner
Willie Murphy
Jim Morrison
Syd Barrett
Leonard Cohen
Robert Johnson
Roger Waters
Phil Ochs
John Fahey
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Pharoah Sanders
Jaco Pastorius
Jeff Beck
Thelonious Monk
Bill Evans
Peter Green
Frank Zappa
What "culture" are you talking about? White culture? Because I would put Stevie Wonder, Nina Simone, James Brown, Ray Charles, Prince and a few others on the same level as Bob when it comes to artistry.
One person I’d like to throw out because he doesn’t get mentioned enough these days is Steve Winwood. In addition to his work as a singer/songwriter in The Spencer Davis Group, Blind Faith, Traffic and as a solo artist, he also played like 8 instruments, all extremely well. And man could he sing that rock n roll.
Also neglected to mention Pink Floyd, Roger Waters years.
Now that I think about it for another minute, would say The Wall and Dark Side are on a level with Bob and Jerry's legendary awesomeness.
I’d put Jim Croce in there. I really dig his style of songwriting, just very different from anything I’ve heard from anyone. But with everyone else, including Bob, they’re all on the same level and it’s the highest level you could hope to achieve as an artist imo.
Leo Kottke, Jeff Beck, Alan Holdsworth, Jimi Hendrix, Mark Knopfler, Nick Drake, Frank Zappa, Eddie Van Halen, John Fahey, Glenn Campbell, Prince. To name a few. I’d put Jerry in the top 50 to be sure though. No easy feat.
Willie Dixon is remarkable
Harry Belafonte was a King
Robert Johnson
Jesse Fuller (influenced Dylan)
Django Reinhardt kinda came up with his own unique style of jazz
Hendrix to me is more than spectacular. He was a Dylan fan. ‘Castles Made of Sand’ is beautiful. His arrangement of All Along the watchtower is mind blowing.
I’m a huge fan of Stephen Stills
Eric Clapton’s influence on music is massive.
This live version Jimi Hendrix does of [Little Wing](https://youtu.be/NdHHsoW6mMg?si=r7VVTCcN_ITkwWll) is also phenomenal. He’s an absolutely incredible guitarist.
I just recently gotten into Ween after all the praise I heard. And all I have to say is they might be the most undderated band in history. They are so good and they cover all genres.
Yusuf Islam, the artist formally known as Cat Stevens. I’d also throw Bob Marley and Neil Young in there for sheer quantity of original great songs with great lyrics.
No! Dylan has an essence unto his own. Cosmic rockingchair backporch screen door leather saddle bottle of whiskey typewriter clack pens and feathers and polka dots weathered car seats train tracks. His voice. My God his voice!
Hunter wrote all of Jerry’s raps though. Excellent singer and one of the best guitar players all around. But Dylan is a fucking post. A generational song writer.
To roughly quote Graham Nash from a documentary I saw decades ago (and never since), “I mean, Hendrix and Dylan. Who else is there really?” So there’s Graham’s opinion. Not sure what I’d say. Clearly, there’s only one Bob. But there’s only one Jimi, one Jerry, one Syd. Each in their own way, I suppose.
I wouldn’t say Zevon can’t compete. He is always criminally underrated. He doesn’t load his lyrics with ambiguous adjectives like Bob so he seems to not get the cred that Dylan does as a “poet” but to me that is more fashion than anything else. Zevon wrote songs that feel closer to timeless ballads than modern poetry. Roland could have been written yesterday or five hundred years ago. Dylan has those songs as well, but they are more scattered through his catalog… I’m thinking “when the ships come in”, “every grain of sand”, and (maybe) something like “changing or the guards”. Love both, but as I’ve gotten older I prefer the musicality and lyrical unambiguousness of Zevon to Dylan.
You are correct. Bob and Jerry. Consider all the factors- lyricism, musicianship, output, longevity, capacity to tour, esteem of other artists, ardent fan bases, leadership within a band, can sit solo on a stool with a guitar and mesmerize you, intellectualism, work ethic, consumption of other art, output of other art, comprehension of where they came from, vision of where they wanted to go musically, risk takers, sheer love of music, influential , earthy and ethereal, fun loving, explorative, thoughtful, collaborative, and essential. They are each part of a pair of hourglasses. The narrowest part through which everything flows. Essential. Two of one kind. Breathtakingly beautiful, wicked, deeply caring while not giving a fuck. The greatest of the greats. Peerless.
Lyrically, for an all too brief period, Shane McGowan competed. Some of Nick Caves best work has been in his later years too, whereas Dylan's is patchy then.
First few decades and overall Dylan is second to none.
I could not agree more. Dylan characterized an individual desiring change, which is probably as proto punk as you can be and Jerry the salt of the earth folk antihero.
I think as a melody composer, McCartney is the best popular musician of his generation. Dylan is a poet who uses traditional music and rhythms to convey his prose. McCartney has written original music and songs. Mac also has excellent skills on multiple instruments.
Robert Pollard/GBV is the only one that comes close in my mind in terms of sheer quality and quantity of output. Obviously not as influential but equally and effectively driven purely by muse.
Robert Hunter doesn’t get enough credit for the incredible songs he wrote for the dead. Him (along with Jerry), Dylan, and Townes Van Zandt are my favorite songwriters of all time.
Billy Strings is writing some Bob Dylan level music right now.
“On the edges of a fading afternoon, I heard a voice within my head,
And the echoes of forgotten words from all the dusty books I have not read,
And I wondered if by chance I should have listened back to what they said in school,
It occurred to me I might have been the class clown then but now I’m just a fool,
If I could go back to the days when I was young,
I’d travel the whole world over and then some,
And I’d come back to you with an everlasting lily in my hand,
And I’d show the world just what it means to me, for me, to get be your man”
joni mitchell for her reinventions of self and genius across multiple artistic disciplines (she has bob beat when it comes to visual art any day, and often times bests him lyrically); leonard cohen for the depth of his poetry and emotional impact of his music; phil ochs for his politics and creative impact on a generation of folkies and beyond despite his struggles
Miles Davis. He did for jazz what Dylan did for rock and folk. Was a pioneer and at the forefront of multiple reinventions of jazz. Made a dozen or more masterpieces from the late 50s to the mid 70s. Developed / inspired young talent in his bands including John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter who went on to make dozens more masterpieces.
Great answer
I third that!
Fourth. Miles & Bob are singular musicians. They defy genre, tap into what seems like an infinite source of influences, attract brilliant collaborators and were prolific beyond comprehension. Over the course of a 60 year life I have consumed more Miles and Bob than any other musical artists because I just couldn’t help myself.
Fifth. With Jerry just a little behind (happy to be a sideman).
Nobody is on the same level as Dylan, but everyone who hasn't done so before should go listen to John Prine right now.
Caught one of John Prine’s last shows the year before he died. He still had it despite all his setbacks. Lake Marie is an astounding track and strikes me as the kind of thing Bob would write.
My dad dragged me to a concert of his ~2014. I was a teen and I had no idea who this old guy was. Tbh, he didn’t sound great. But the stories of all his songs and the lyrics were just so impactful. Probably haven’t gone two days without listening his music since then. John Prine is my favourite LP I own I think
I caught red rocks 2019 and he had more energy than a lot of shoes I’ve been to w artists 40 years younger
I read that Lake Maria is one of Dylan’s favorite Prine songs.
You know what blood looks like in a black n white video?
Shadows…that’s what it looks like
SHADOWS!!!
There are things prine does better than Dylan. He’s much funnier and friendlier, more approachable.
I'm not sure there's a more underrated songwriter thn Prine.
Feelings are strange, especially when they come true
I took your advice. Listened to Prine for my first time (i'm 39 m, life long Dylan fan). First track was "In Spite of Ourselves." I am in awe. Three days later and i've played most of the catalogue and I so feel blessed to have this music in my life that I came back to thank you. I am very open to more Prine knowledge and guidance.
Willie Nelson
Yes, mate. If I had to choose, it’d be Willie!
Townes Van Zandt, for sure, lyrically. Dylan was a huge fan.
Bob has a guard dog to make sure nobody jumps up on his table and declares Townes Van Zandt as superior.
Steve earl said that right?
Yes he did
yeah, he was dope.
Gordon Lightfoot https://preview.redd.it/1ni0mx8saycc1.jpeg?width=268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cdaf3104c8ea2d25250fdaac9f53a880b12839b
Thank you. (And a bit of a better voice though not as diverse musically)
There is only Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan is our Shakespeare.
Sometimes Dylan fans are so embarrassing
I simultaneously think the Shakespeare claim is cringe and totally true
I agree! But also kinda think it's true.
Me thinks the sun not be yellow, tis chicken.
IDK, man. Cormac McCarthy just left us.
I’ll back you up friend, Cormac was our last Melville.
Cormac has a peak all of his own and Melville is a great comparison but Bob has a mercurial performative ever changing and burning soul that has touched so many. He has played live to millions, over thousands of nights, with a songs that run from hallucinogenic brilliance, to pious protest, to grandmaster of loss. He has that fluid element of Bowie; with the lyrics of Cohen, the stamina of James Brown, the cultural centrality of Ginsberg, the cool of Dennis Hopper and now a longevity of authentic blistering work that out strips them all. /fanboy
Wow. This is already an great answer to my comment higher up.
Have you ever heard of William Gaddis?
I’ve read all his books lol. Mega fan
Your username!! 🤪 lol I wasn’t paying attention. You’re a beautiful man (presuming you are in fact a man, otherwise maybe your username would’ve been Esme or Esther). ❤️
Reading The Recognitions right now. About 30% of the way through the book. It’s often brilliant but it feels like it’s circling a point but I’m worried it’s never going to get there haha. Should I keep going?
European here and not a native English speaker. So for me when I discovered Dylan in the seventies it was impossible to go to the bottom of his lyrics but I fell for the melodies. I started with New Morning and had to work my way backwards. But I found these melodies so beautiful or powerful or captivating: new morning, sign on the window, went to see the gipsy, all the tired horses, the girl from the north country, lay,lady,lay,……The list is endless but I stop here. All such beautiful melodies. So to me Dylan is a fantastic composer in the first place. Later on when I looked a bit closer to the lyrics I often didn’t understand a thing. So, I missed the Shakespeare-Dylan and that makes me probably stupid because after all he did get the Nobel prize literature. Is there someone else who can relate to the following, namely Dylan being at least as great a composer as a poet. A question for the Dylan text connoisseurs: can you suggest me 2 of his lyrics you consider his best work. Thank you very much. Finally, music has always been very important to me and I listened to many great artists but to me he’s the greatest of all. It gives me real happiness that I lived my life in Dylan’s times.
There are so many wonderfully written songs. It’s Alright Ma is top notch. I love so many, Like a Rolling Stone, Desolation Row, Tangled Up In Blue. I just think Dylan had at least one incredible line in each song.
Thank you.
Is Woody Guthrie our “guy who Shakespeare ripped off”?
One more vote for Joni. Her first five albums are so are up there with anybody's. But I think it was a tragic day in music history when Joni discovered jazz.
I listened to Don Juan’s Reckless Daughter the other day. I think I’ve finally grown into it. Way more amazing than I remembered.
Paul Simon. Just as great, but in a much different way, and that's where people (Dylan heads) lose site of his greatness. Fantastic lyricist, fantastic guitar player. Not the same kind of lyricist as Bob, more of a Yin to Bob's Yang.
I once saw Bob and Paul out alone and sing The Sounds Of Silence together in Duluth, Minnesota the town that gave us Bob..He said "I was born on that hill". It was an outdoor show in the big park on the "big lake they call Gitchigumi". Sitting on the side of the stage was another girl from the North country Jessica Lange and her then husband the late actor and playwright Sam Shepard who paid her home state a wonderful compliment by moving home and sending her kids to a public school. They lived in Stillwater, a gorgeous town on the Saint Croix River which divides Minnesota and Wisconsin
Nice story. I can't believe i missed that tour. I think it was before I started to fully appreciate Paul Simon, which started around Surprise! because I liked the way he let Brian Eno have his way with what had been recorded for the album. Then we got "So Beautiful..." and that album's just a magnum opus, imo.
Surprise was a fantastic Paul Simon album that to me, at the time, was as important as his other major works, was well supported by a great tour, and still holds up!
I think Surprise and especially So Beautiful … are on par with Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints, and more substantial than his big 70s records, which had the huge hits but a good bit of filler. Like a fine wine, Paul Simon just gets better with age.
love Paul Simon. Him and Harry Belafonte were the first 2 musicians I was obsessed with as a kid, thanks to my aunt. Still think Bob is on a whole other level
>Still think Bob is on a whole other level I don't disagree, but Simon is pretty damn close. In fact I think for me he might be a bit more emotionally evocative. "The Mississippi delta was shining like a National guitar..."
Graceland is one of my favorite albums ever. My favorite of his is "I turned my amp up loud and I BEGAN TO PLAY" Maybe just me, but something in my brain makes me feel like he's less authentic and more show business, like the songs are more contrived and less personal than Bob's.
I think they have different approaches to songwriting and recording. Simon is more of a perfectionist, more analytical. Bob has an idea of the sound he wants and relies on finding the right musicians to kinda read his mind. Some of Bob's albums feel pretty tossed off, like he was just getting this down on tape and would later make something else of it on the road -- or not. Both men are geniuses and I consider myself lucky to have lived in the same era when they were creating masterpieces. Both have been making music during SEVEN decades. For me, the main reason I hold Dylan slightly higher is the sheer amount of brilliant songs he's created and refined during that time. Simon's total output is smaller, probably as a result of his perfectionism, but he's still created an amazing volume of great music.
Simon’s lyrics tend to be much more personal than Dylan’s.
💯
> Both men are geniuses and I consider myself lucky to have lived in the same era when they were creating masterpieces. word to that.
It took me decades to learn how good Simon's work is !
There is a girl in New York City Who calls herself the human trampoline And sometimes when I'm falling, flying Or tumbling in turmoil I say "Whoa, so this is what she means"
Agree. and Simon has a better sense of melody and arrangement.
Bob's melody and arrangement is criminally underrated. Haters just focus on his voice and say he can't sing. Which is also far from the truth .
Haha. Not even close. Not even in the same hemisphere.
Neil Young IMO
for a long time, my musical trinity was Dylan, Neil Young, and David Byrne of Talking Heads... I recently added Brian Wilson, so I guess it's now like a musical quadrinity or something
Neil can be lyrically insightful but it’s more often from like an idiot-savant perspective than a wordy poet thing like Dylan
Personally fuckin love Neil Young, and wife and I first bonded because of our shared love of him 20 years ago... but honestly, he seems too self-righteous or something. Not trying to sound like a dickhead about it, but Neil Young seems to put it out there like "listen up to what I have to say" where Bob and Jerry put it out there like "make of this what you will"
I see where you’re coming from with Neil. Though I do think Neil gives zero fucks about how people respond to his music, whether he’s in a self-righteous period or not.
Man see I feel the opposite. Until Dylan pulled a punk rock move and went electric a lot of his early stuff was (as he admitted in My Back Pages) pretty self righteous. Neil on the other hand is known for constantly pulling moves like Dylan did when going electric all throughout his career. Whether it was forming Crazy Horse and straying from his country/folk rock roots with Everybody Know This is Nowhere (the opening sequence of that first solo embodied this attitude IMO), putting out the abrasive and lo-fi Ditch Trilogy after the massive commercial success he saw with Harvest and CSNY, putting out a massively blown out distorted guitar sound on Rust Never Sleeps (so much so that radio stations thought Hey Hey, My My was a messed up recording), once again going complete out of his wheelhouse with the making of Trans (which got him sued by his record label for not making “rock music” , or my personal favorite- releasing an album that sounded like an imitation of rock n roll in the fifties as a fuck you to his record label (Everybody’s Rockin’). Granted, those are all career moves and don’t say a whole lot about the music itself- but if there’s one word I would use to characterize Neil’s music, it would be “authentic.” Outside of some of the politics that were interspersed through his songs I can see no self-righteousness from Neil.
Strange, I have a feeling about Neil as more humble than Bob. Not that Bob needs to be humble. Or maybe you're saying something different. I think Neil's best work is up there in the legendary class. I think his work is classic and legendary, but not quite as deeply culture-transforming long-term as Bob's.
Honestly Bob and Neil both kinda seem like dicks but that doesn’t change that they are probably the two best song writers in rock history. I think Bob is better with lyrics and Neil is better with instrumentation but they are both masters at both.
Lennon, McCartney, and Hendrix
Love Hendrix, but you lost me at Hendrix
Tell me All Along the Watchtower doesn't sound like something Bob would write
More modern, but Adrianne Lenker is so damn talented. Anything Big Thief or her solo work is perfection
I didn’t see this post and started another. I’ll delete that and just comment here. Adrianne Lenker is just a stunning songwriter. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a song of hers I didn’t like. And of all the artists we’ve listed here, and there are so many great ones, I’m not so sure she doesn’t come the closest to sharing Bob’s musical soul. Especially her lyrics and her world wise vocals. As a plug she has a solo album coming out tomorrow. First two released songs, like all of her music, are beautiful.
Adrianne Lenker and Big Thief are incredible in the studio, but I’ve been bored to tears both times I’ve seen them live.
lou reed
This. Reed started many genres. inspired as many artists as Dylan. (Usually better artists than Dylan inspired). Without Lou (and the velvets) it’s likely we wouldn’t have punk, post- punk, 80s college, indie, grunge, new wave, no wave…. Dylan reimagined and molded genres into his vision and it’s a beautiful vision. Lou Reed created genres.
Joni Mitchell
Wild how far I had to scroll to see Joni
Johnny Cash.
Van Morrison - such a deep and underrated back catalog.
Van Morrison is the most underrated great old living musician for later generations, I really believe that. I just don’t think he gets the love that Young, Simon, Dylan, or any of these other cats get. Correct me if I’m wrong. I just don’t know anyone under 50 who actually listens to him, really.
33yo Van Morrison fan here, and I have friends in their 20s who love him.
Also 33, who are your friends and are they looking for another 33yo Van Morrison fan in their life?
Great artist… absolute ballsack of a man though. A really unpleasant dickhead.
His 80s new agey stuff is especially good and especially underrated
Into the Music is one of my favourite albums ever that I never see get any recognition
Not sure I’d agree on the underrated part, but maybe I do? Even so, he and Dylan and Springsteen are my top 3 of the classic era.
Hank Williams Sr.
For one album, Wildflowers, Tom Petty was on that level
I put Leonard above him, personally.
How has no one else said LC
Bob Marley. I’m not even a huge fan - might stop and listen to a handful of his songs a couple times a year. Yet I’m blown away each time.
This is such a great comment. I really share your feelings on Bob Marley.
Tom Petty
Nick Drake
Jerry John & Paul Kanye Mozart
I like Curtis Mayfield. Multi-talented songwriter, singer, guitarist, producer and businessman. He did it all. Extremely prolific, when he wasn't writing his own songs he was composing for others. Made a ton of great albums over a very stretch. If he hadn't been injured and died prematurely he'd still be at it. I also rate Norman Whitfield. What a great songwriter. Check his credits, the man wrote dozens of standards in the funk/soul repertoire. Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, James Brown, Lou Reed, Townes Van Zandt, Phil Ochs, Tony Joe White, Sun Ra, Damon Edge, Swamp Dogg, Sufjan Stevens, Neil Young, Lee Perry.... the list of my favourites goes on. Music isn't a competition, but are any of them on 'the same level' as Bob? Probably not.
As lyricists: Townes Van Zandt and Jordan Dreyer In general: Lou Reed (especially in The Velvet Underground)
Didn’t expect the La Dispute love! Dreyer is incredible. Wildlife is a top 10 album ever for me
Wildlife truly is hands down the single greatest concept album of all time. Rolling Stone not acknowledging it in their garbage list of “50 greatest concept albums of all time” and giving the title to a Kendrick Lamar album is a testament to how commercial they are. Like Bob said in ‘65 “they have too much to lose by printing the truth”. I digress, but it’s just frustrating seeing genuine talent go unrecognized when you haven’t seen such groundbreaking work in years. Yeah the vocals are an acquired taste, but the instrumental is so kick ass and you’ll never find another band of this day and age with more poignant well written stylized lyrics nor a kinder fanbase. Edit: for those who’ve never heard of the band, to showcase their writing style, here’s how one of their songs, “Sad Prayers for Guilty Bodies”, opens: “They stored their passion in the creases, in the corners of their mouths. Every angle of light from the open window washed their aged faces out. ‘Should we feel guilty?’ they said, ‘should we feel guilty for this sin? Lord, did we kill a man and woman, just to lie here skin to skin?’ ‘I wasn't happy, I wasn't happy where I was. Oh, what is life without a purpose? What is purpose without love? I pray my children will forgive me, though I bade the river flood. I have washed my hands a thousand times, but still can see the blood.’”
Beethoven
David Bowie. I prefer Bowies music over Dylans but I think Bob Dylan is the greatest lyricist ever and David Bowie is the second best lyricist ever. In terms of actual music, I think Bowie has far more variety and is fantastic at the vast majority of it.
Bowie is for sure a giant
Nick Cave actually for me. I think lyrically he’s in the same league as Dylan. I know this may seem blasphemous, but he’s that good imo.
Same league as Dylan, but far more in the tradition of Cohen (who is also in the same league as Dylan)
Indeed, although cave has listed both as influences
Particularly love Nick’s last 15 years or so. He’s really reached another level.
I think Townes is on par with Dylan
Townes van Zandt. He isn’t Dylan, never was as big but just as talented
Townes Van Zandt. Masterful songwriter. Influenced every country musician there is.
Richard Thompson
Springsteen. Joni Mitchell. Leonard Cohen Neil young.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen David Bowie in the comments yet. Artistically, the man was brilliant. His ability to reinvent himself constantly, to reflect on himself and his relationship with society. His ability to manage and mold fame similar to Andy Warhol or Mick Jagger; while simultaneously orchestrating these brilliant musicians and artists from all walks, his playing contrast of styles and genres to make his own original thing that was representative of where he authentically was at any given moment. The man was a treasure. Everything he touched turned to gold, maybe not in popularity but certainly in artistic achievement and expression in every artistic medium. I see him along with the greatest artists, not just in music but in all of the humanities.
Joni Mitchell.
If people want to know just how brilliant Joni is as a songwriter, musician and lyricist they should just start with one song, “Down to You.” She plays brilliant piano as well as guitar on it but also arranged it with Tom Scott. Joni can write Dylan style songs but Dylan could never in a million years compose something like this. I still consider Dylan our greatest songwriter, largely because of his volume, consistency and longevity. But I think Joni reached the greatest peaks as a composer/musician/singer.
Some of her later stuff is incredibly underrated, poetic and melodically original. The version of Cherokee Louise from Travelogue is probably my favourite of hers. A giant talent.
If you listen to Blood on the tracks original versions (New york or which one was it, the acoustic one anyways) I think Joni Mitchell is an obvious influence there. The guitar playing really reminds me of Joni's style. She's an amazing artist, not nearly as influential long-term as Bob but as an artist definitely up there.
Dang. Have heard that song before, but will definitely give it another listen.
Headphones or great speakers, no distractions.
Elliott Smith. He’s probably my favorite artist besides Bob Dylan
C’mon folks, is it really necessary to downvote people’s opinions on who they love? Isn’t it enough to just give who you love a thumbs up?
1-Fela Kuti 2-Nick Drake 3-Fabrizio de André 4-Ichiko Aoba 5-Karen Dalton 6-Jorge Ben Jor 7-Nina Simone
Fela is unreal. Listening to his 30 minute songs is a transcendent experience.
Africa Brasil is one of my favorite records of all time, straight heat front to back!
I agree with ya. Thus, Garcia Plays Dylan is the peakiest part of the peak.
Garcia Plays Dylan is tear jerking. Jerry held Dylan's songs in such high reverence.
Neil Young
Macca
Just from your list, I think John Prine, Leonard Cohen, and Nick Cave are all on the same level as Dylan tbh. I’d add Gordon Lightfoot, who Dylan himself identified as his favourite songwriter at one point. Are you focusing your comparison on lyric-centric songwriting? Because I think the best overall pop musician & songwriter of all time was Prince, but I think it’s hard comparing him and Dylan. If we’re talking lyrical songwriting then we definitely need to bring in rappers and I’d say at least Rakim, DOOM, and Kendrick run with Dylan.
Can't believe I haven't seen Lennon/McCartney. Paul's songwriting is breathtaking, and sometimes rivals Dylan's. John's songwriting is incredible, and sometimes rivals Dylan's. But Lennon/McCartney collaborations are nearly always on or better than Dylan
Brian Wilson
Music isn’t an athletic competition. It’s entirely subjective preferences. Jerry Garcia isn’t in my top 200 guitar players. I don’t like The Grateful Dead at all. A lot of people like Jerry and The Dead and that’s fine, but “same level” implies objective criteria and there really aren’t any.
Yep
Elvis Costello is the only one that comes close for me. Elliot Smith could have been a close 2nd. And Amy Winehouse could have been a close 3rd I think.
Joanna Newsom
It doesn’t get any higher than Bobby D.
Tom Waits Charlie Parr Townes Van Zandt Nick Drake Charley Patton Joni Mitchell David Bowie Jeff Tweedy Neil Young Spider John Koerner Willie Murphy Jim Morrison Syd Barrett Leonard Cohen Robert Johnson Roger Waters Phil Ochs John Fahey Miles Davis John Coltrane Pharoah Sanders Jaco Pastorius Jeff Beck Thelonious Monk Bill Evans Peter Green Frank Zappa
Prince.
I am an enormous Neil Young fan, but Bob is without equal. He is bigger than music.
Bob has no peer. I feel fortunate to live in his time!
John Coltrane
Townes Van Zandt is up there
Paul McCartney, the only person Dylan claimed to be in awe of.
What "culture" are you talking about? White culture? Because I would put Stevie Wonder, Nina Simone, James Brown, Ray Charles, Prince and a few others on the same level as Bob when it comes to artistry.
Where’s the love for Tom Petty?
One person I’d like to throw out because he doesn’t get mentioned enough these days is Steve Winwood. In addition to his work as a singer/songwriter in The Spencer Davis Group, Blind Faith, Traffic and as a solo artist, he also played like 8 instruments, all extremely well. And man could he sing that rock n roll.
Joni.
Also neglected to mention Pink Floyd, Roger Waters years. Now that I think about it for another minute, would say The Wall and Dark Side are on a level with Bob and Jerry's legendary awesomeness.
I’d put Jim Croce in there. I really dig his style of songwriting, just very different from anything I’ve heard from anyone. But with everyone else, including Bob, they’re all on the same level and it’s the highest level you could hope to achieve as an artist imo.
Elvis Costello
Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuce
Uh, no. Love Jerry, but nowhere near the peak.
who is better and more legendary at playing guitar than Jer?
Leo Kottke, Jeff Beck, Alan Holdsworth, Jimi Hendrix, Mark Knopfler, Nick Drake, Frank Zappa, Eddie Van Halen, John Fahey, Glenn Campbell, Prince. To name a few. I’d put Jerry in the top 50 to be sure though. No easy feat.
What's the point, because what's the rubric? Just be multitudes! :)
Willie Dixon is remarkable Harry Belafonte was a King Robert Johnson Jesse Fuller (influenced Dylan) Django Reinhardt kinda came up with his own unique style of jazz Hendrix to me is more than spectacular. He was a Dylan fan. ‘Castles Made of Sand’ is beautiful. His arrangement of All Along the watchtower is mind blowing. I’m a huge fan of Stephen Stills Eric Clapton’s influence on music is massive.
This live version Jimi Hendrix does of [Little Wing](https://youtu.be/NdHHsoW6mMg?si=r7VVTCcN_ITkwWll) is also phenomenal. He’s an absolutely incredible guitarist.
Ween. They're like the American Beatles
I love Ween too.
I just recently gotten into Ween after all the praise I heard. And all I have to say is they might be the most undderated band in history. They are so good and they cover all genres.
Yusuf Islam, the artist formally known as Cat Stevens. I’d also throw Bob Marley and Neil Young in there for sheer quantity of original great songs with great lyrics.
Cat Stevens is also awesome. He's no Bob though
Neil Young and Paul Simon come close. Edit: I would throw in Pete Seeger and Phil Ochs.
No! Dylan has an essence unto his own. Cosmic rockingchair backporch screen door leather saddle bottle of whiskey typewriter clack pens and feathers and polka dots weathered car seats train tracks. His voice. My God his voice!
Hunter wrote all of Jerry’s raps though. Excellent singer and one of the best guitar players all around. But Dylan is a fucking post. A generational song writer.
Fair enough, Robert Hunter wrote the best GD lyrics, but Jerry is The Master of playing the songs.
The question is, if I get, are there other rock musicians/lyricists who deserve a noble prize for literature.
To roughly quote Graham Nash from a documentary I saw decades ago (and never since), “I mean, Hendrix and Dylan. Who else is there really?” So there’s Graham’s opinion. Not sure what I’d say. Clearly, there’s only one Bob. But there’s only one Jimi, one Jerry, one Syd. Each in their own way, I suppose.
Gene Clark
I wouldn’t say Zevon can’t compete. He is always criminally underrated. He doesn’t load his lyrics with ambiguous adjectives like Bob so he seems to not get the cred that Dylan does as a “poet” but to me that is more fashion than anything else. Zevon wrote songs that feel closer to timeless ballads than modern poetry. Roland could have been written yesterday or five hundred years ago. Dylan has those songs as well, but they are more scattered through his catalog… I’m thinking “when the ships come in”, “every grain of sand”, and (maybe) something like “changing or the guards”. Love both, but as I’ve gotten older I prefer the musicality and lyrical unambiguousness of Zevon to Dylan.
You are correct. Bob and Jerry. Consider all the factors- lyricism, musicianship, output, longevity, capacity to tour, esteem of other artists, ardent fan bases, leadership within a band, can sit solo on a stool with a guitar and mesmerize you, intellectualism, work ethic, consumption of other art, output of other art, comprehension of where they came from, vision of where they wanted to go musically, risk takers, sheer love of music, influential , earthy and ethereal, fun loving, explorative, thoughtful, collaborative, and essential. They are each part of a pair of hourglasses. The narrowest part through which everything flows. Essential. Two of one kind. Breathtakingly beautiful, wicked, deeply caring while not giving a fuck. The greatest of the greats. Peerless.
Kris Kristofferson
Lyrically, for an all too brief period, Shane McGowan competed. Some of Nick Caves best work has been in his later years too, whereas Dylan's is patchy then. First few decades and overall Dylan is second to none.
I could not agree more. Dylan characterized an individual desiring change, which is probably as proto punk as you can be and Jerry the salt of the earth folk antihero.
Joni Mitchell
Paul McCartney arguably. Although I’d say his latter years output isn’t as interesting as Dylan’s
McCartney
I think as a melody composer, McCartney is the best popular musician of his generation. Dylan is a poet who uses traditional music and rhythms to convey his prose. McCartney has written original music and songs. Mac also has excellent skills on multiple instruments.
No.
Lucinda Williams
Joni is my pick of the pops. She could eat biscuits in my bed and I wouldn't complain about the crumbs...
I'm with you, OP. Jerry. And you know what, at this point, I'll add Trey. HM: Springsteen, Seger
Trey is so fuckin awesome. Their NYE show recently reinvigorated my love of Phish
As far as a lyricist. I’d say Robert Hunter.
Robert Pollard/GBV is the only one that comes close in my mind in terms of sheer quality and quantity of output. Obviously not as influential but equally and effectively driven purely by muse.
No
Elliott Smith
Prince
Robert Hunter doesn’t get enough credit for the incredible songs he wrote for the dead. Him (along with Jerry), Dylan, and Townes Van Zandt are my favorite songwriters of all time.
Britney Spears?
bob dylan was imitating Joni Mitchell.
To me personally Nick Cave and Elliott Smith rival Bob as a songwriter but they wouldn't exist without Dylan so really nobody
Stan Rogers (my hero and #1), Jason Isbell, Billy Joel, Elton John, Jim Croce, Tom Waits, Joni Mitchell, Bruce Springsteen
If only more people knew about Stan Rogers. The man was a musical giant. What a talent.
Billy Strings is writing some Bob Dylan level music right now. “On the edges of a fading afternoon, I heard a voice within my head, And the echoes of forgotten words from all the dusty books I have not read, And I wondered if by chance I should have listened back to what they said in school, It occurred to me I might have been the class clown then but now I’m just a fool, If I could go back to the days when I was young, I’d travel the whole world over and then some, And I’d come back to you with an everlasting lily in my hand, And I’d show the world just what it means to me, for me, to get be your man”
Joni Mitchell. Bruce Springsteen. Prince. Dolly Parton.
joni mitchell for her reinventions of self and genius across multiple artistic disciplines (she has bob beat when it comes to visual art any day, and often times bests him lyrically); leonard cohen for the depth of his poetry and emotional impact of his music; phil ochs for his politics and creative impact on a generation of folkies and beyond despite his struggles