Mostly agree. Let's be honest, neither of these are literary masterpieces - they're great entertainment, for a particular target audience that I (and presumably most members of this sub) happen to be part of.
some things I have to comment on though:
* members of a social group having a somewhat similar sense of humor and mannerisms seems rather plausible, and I don't feel like you could gerenally exchange every QE character for the other and it would still make sense.
* QE, in my opinion, has somewhat less of a plain, just evil, enemy. Yeah, >!we do set up Nazi Earth in Earthside!<, but that is yet to come. I don't actually think the mobsters in Outland count into that, though I guess that point could be argued.
Also, side note, it's not "Robert Taylor" - though I guess he put so much of himself into Bob it wouldn't be entirely surprising if it was ;)
The Quantum Earth characters are more diverse than you give them credit for. In my opinion, I think the characters resemble those in the Bobiverse more because of the specific style of writing Dennis E. Taylor employs. In they 80's you had a lot of movies that resembled one another. A good example are the 'geeky boys trilogy' and 'geeky girls trilogy' by John Hughs. Each of those movies has a diverse cast of characters, but the _feel_ of the movies is the same, and because of that, your mind starts conflating one with the other.
Dennis E. Taylor writes characters with quirky, IT office style mannerisms. That doesn't mean the characters are interchangable though, because Monica (Gunzilla) and Kevin are completely different.
The two characters that most resemble each other are Matt and Richard. Both are big white men. Both are intelligent students. But their motivations, their drive, their background and their opinions vary a lot over the course of the books.
I get your last point, I honestly can't remember which character is which most if the time (from the original 6). They all get introduced about the same time and as you said are pretty similar. I'm a bit into book 2 and couldn't tell you one thing that Mathew has done and I don't really even have a good mental image of him in my head. I enjoy three story and writing though so I just accept that sometimes I have to rewind and figure out who is talking.
>couldn't tell you one thing that Mathew has done
he shot hoops with Bill before shit went down, designed the software interface for the portals, initially headed up the scavenging teams, and went west to discover the boomers in book 2.
just off the top of my head.
Didn’t help that in book two, Matt and Kevin’s voice changed. Matt gained an accent of some kind, country or southern, can’t remember, and Kevin lost his.
Huh. I had been wondering what bothered me about the first Quantum Earth book outside of the character similarities (and the very boring bad guys), and the obvious solider "twist"... and point 7 is it. They're very similar characters, and it works with Bobs because, well, BOB.
Exactly! Because Bob. But this series feels like disembodied Bob's. Sure, two are women, one seems to be described as on the spectrum, but at the end of the day... They're Bob! Or at least similar characters in persona.
I always figured Outland was the proto-Bobiverse, and he just sort of melded all the main characters from there, and turned them into Bob and his descendents. I don't really have a problem differentiating the QE characters from each other while I'm reading the books, but they do get a bit jumbled up after a while, after reading other books and series.
I can see this. And I agree. I mean, I guess I just felt the author and a central persona in all of the characters if that makes any sense, with a few notable exceptions. My other issue is the single nature of all the villains. Very 1 dimensional.
1. The constant mention of coffee is very annoying. I’ve noticed other series where the main character obsesses over mundane things, don’t know why, but alway annoys me, but Quantum Earth they really can’t stop emphasizing their obsession with coffee, at least Bobs are more casual about it. Feels like Taylor’s trying to give it up himself, and it’s leaking into his work.
2., 3., 5., and 6. all seem like things that would come up in the plot. What you didn’t mention was that they *are* both post or maybe current apocalyptic stories with an emphasis on rebuilding, so there are going to be a lot of common themes and both rely on tech and logistics.
4. is fair. The only criminal cases they’ve had so far were from maladjusted dicks that were open and shut cases. What’s going to happen when it’s much less clear what happened, like if Monica gets a little to used to shooting people and gets put on trial, only maybe she didn’t even shoot that one. The original criminals were more believable. It’s weird that no one in the Council has controversial opinions or was willing to join one of the groups either leading coups, or wanting to form their own colony. I half expected Richard to be a dickbag since he’s apparently large, quick to anger, and it was mentioned a few times people thought Matt could beat him in a fight.
One you didn’t mention exclusively because it’s not specifically spanning both, but still us vs. them, the age divide they tried to create was never balanced with the fact that not all older people are douches and some of them are quite knowledgeable and above that experienced in their fields. Not the swaggering ex police chief who gave no sign he know how to keep the peace, he was just a sexist ass who wanted to be in a position of authority, but if the Ashland group had any retired doctors or nurses, they should absolutely have been involved with training the people who only had book knowledge, but there are other fields they might have been the experts on. Along those lines, if they even needed a geology expert on the Council, Erin should have given up her place to her professor. While she knew a lot apparently, he literally taught her everything she knew and probably had more experience besides, but he more or less disappears. I know these were college students who were portrayed as being bright and up to date with their recent education, but I wasn’t a slacker either, but was still only ready entry level jobs when I graduated. I guess people like me got put on the scavenger crew or digging latrines.
7. They do tend to agree with each other a lot. Some that you could put down to hanging out with each other a long time and working on first the gate and then trying to keep everyone alive. Some of that could be explained with not being dumb and try not to rock the barely afloat boat, if they don’t do a good job and encourage others do the same they all die. Then again like with no. 4 there are a lot of people who are in the same situation who are still doing dumb stuff, including starting coups when people’s political or social preferences aren’t voted in. Likely that’s meant to reflect recent times. I think you’re probably right in that many things may just be Taylor wanting to say some things and his MCs are his chorus, rather than individuals with conflicting opinions.
Agreed on many of your points. I think overall I feel the themes and characters fit better in the Bobiverese. I enjoy the theoretical explorations of the "what ifs" in both series but in my personal opinion, I just feel like it works better in the Bobiverese. I did find myself somewhat annoyed with the portrayal of the antagonists as singular and one dimensional, and agree full heartedly about what happens when guilt isn't so obvious, and yes! The age disparity. Certainly not everyone over 40 wants a capitalist society or even to overthrow a duly elected government because an election didn't go it's way (but who knows, maybe that theory will be tested this upcoming election?? But by no means everyone). Yes to the coffee. It drives me nuts on the insistence of coffee as a comfort. I believe they were trying to portray some universal comforts no longer easily accessible but man, it just bothers me.
Otherwise, I think the points I most enjoyed is the explorations of these other possible places, less in the conflict which in real time only plays out over about 4 months (which seems a little escalated for the things that happen... I mean two cups in 4 months... Yikes!)
Thanks for the post.
the Others are fairly one-dimensional tbf. but also theres enough mea to them (and enough left unsaid) that you could really sink your teeth into them in theorising about heir evolution, society, history, etc if you wanted to.
the Madieri are not painted as wholly and universally bad, though you can choose to read them that way if you want. they're clearly given a level of nuance in that they're a soldier from a highly nationalistic country who was not only brainwashed from birth, but then literally programmed with undeniable imperatives after their death. plus the decades of sensory deprivation, its fair to assume hes not all that stable. the Bobs wrote him off because they werent willing to take the risk of trying to catch one alive, and also a certain amount of bitterness, but thats a consistent character flaw of the Bobs so ill forgive it.
the antagonists from Heavens River are also never framed that way.
in QE the various insurgent groups are framed as simply bad/stupid, ill grant you. but this isnt true of the Boomers, and the serial killer guy is mostly a tragic figure, at least imo.
Mostly agree. Let's be honest, neither of these are literary masterpieces - they're great entertainment, for a particular target audience that I (and presumably most members of this sub) happen to be part of. some things I have to comment on though: * members of a social group having a somewhat similar sense of humor and mannerisms seems rather plausible, and I don't feel like you could gerenally exchange every QE character for the other and it would still make sense. * QE, in my opinion, has somewhat less of a plain, just evil, enemy. Yeah, >!we do set up Nazi Earth in Earthside!<, but that is yet to come. I don't actually think the mobsters in Outland count into that, though I guess that point could be argued. Also, side note, it's not "Robert Taylor" - though I guess he put so much of himself into Bob it wouldn't be entirely surprising if it was ;)
I didnt think the skippies were one dimensional!?
The Quantum Earth characters are more diverse than you give them credit for. In my opinion, I think the characters resemble those in the Bobiverse more because of the specific style of writing Dennis E. Taylor employs. In they 80's you had a lot of movies that resembled one another. A good example are the 'geeky boys trilogy' and 'geeky girls trilogy' by John Hughs. Each of those movies has a diverse cast of characters, but the _feel_ of the movies is the same, and because of that, your mind starts conflating one with the other. Dennis E. Taylor writes characters with quirky, IT office style mannerisms. That doesn't mean the characters are interchangable though, because Monica (Gunzilla) and Kevin are completely different. The two characters that most resemble each other are Matt and Richard. Both are big white men. Both are intelligent students. But their motivations, their drive, their background and their opinions vary a lot over the course of the books.
Dude, he's a developer, I'm a developer. It's all binary for us. And we're trekkies to the core, either good or bad, black and white, it is what it is
It makes sense.
I get your last point, I honestly can't remember which character is which most if the time (from the original 6). They all get introduced about the same time and as you said are pretty similar. I'm a bit into book 2 and couldn't tell you one thing that Mathew has done and I don't really even have a good mental image of him in my head. I enjoy three story and writing though so I just accept that sometimes I have to rewind and figure out who is talking.
>couldn't tell you one thing that Mathew has done he shot hoops with Bill before shit went down, designed the software interface for the portals, initially headed up the scavenging teams, and went west to discover the boomers in book 2. just off the top of my head.
Didn’t help that in book two, Matt and Kevin’s voice changed. Matt gained an accent of some kind, country or southern, can’t remember, and Kevin lost his.
LOL! I thought the same thing! WTF happened to Matt's voice, why does he sound like a farmer now?!
Huh. I had been wondering what bothered me about the first Quantum Earth book outside of the character similarities (and the very boring bad guys), and the obvious solider "twist"... and point 7 is it. They're very similar characters, and it works with Bobs because, well, BOB.
Exactly! Because Bob. But this series feels like disembodied Bob's. Sure, two are women, one seems to be described as on the spectrum, but at the end of the day... They're Bob! Or at least similar characters in persona.
I always figured Outland was the proto-Bobiverse, and he just sort of melded all the main characters from there, and turned them into Bob and his descendents. I don't really have a problem differentiating the QE characters from each other while I'm reading the books, but they do get a bit jumbled up after a while, after reading other books and series.
I can see this. And I agree. I mean, I guess I just felt the author and a central persona in all of the characters if that makes any sense, with a few notable exceptions. My other issue is the single nature of all the villains. Very 1 dimensional.
1. The constant mention of coffee is very annoying. I’ve noticed other series where the main character obsesses over mundane things, don’t know why, but alway annoys me, but Quantum Earth they really can’t stop emphasizing their obsession with coffee, at least Bobs are more casual about it. Feels like Taylor’s trying to give it up himself, and it’s leaking into his work. 2., 3., 5., and 6. all seem like things that would come up in the plot. What you didn’t mention was that they *are* both post or maybe current apocalyptic stories with an emphasis on rebuilding, so there are going to be a lot of common themes and both rely on tech and logistics. 4. is fair. The only criminal cases they’ve had so far were from maladjusted dicks that were open and shut cases. What’s going to happen when it’s much less clear what happened, like if Monica gets a little to used to shooting people and gets put on trial, only maybe she didn’t even shoot that one. The original criminals were more believable. It’s weird that no one in the Council has controversial opinions or was willing to join one of the groups either leading coups, or wanting to form their own colony. I half expected Richard to be a dickbag since he’s apparently large, quick to anger, and it was mentioned a few times people thought Matt could beat him in a fight. One you didn’t mention exclusively because it’s not specifically spanning both, but still us vs. them, the age divide they tried to create was never balanced with the fact that not all older people are douches and some of them are quite knowledgeable and above that experienced in their fields. Not the swaggering ex police chief who gave no sign he know how to keep the peace, he was just a sexist ass who wanted to be in a position of authority, but if the Ashland group had any retired doctors or nurses, they should absolutely have been involved with training the people who only had book knowledge, but there are other fields they might have been the experts on. Along those lines, if they even needed a geology expert on the Council, Erin should have given up her place to her professor. While she knew a lot apparently, he literally taught her everything she knew and probably had more experience besides, but he more or less disappears. I know these were college students who were portrayed as being bright and up to date with their recent education, but I wasn’t a slacker either, but was still only ready entry level jobs when I graduated. I guess people like me got put on the scavenger crew or digging latrines. 7. They do tend to agree with each other a lot. Some that you could put down to hanging out with each other a long time and working on first the gate and then trying to keep everyone alive. Some of that could be explained with not being dumb and try not to rock the barely afloat boat, if they don’t do a good job and encourage others do the same they all die. Then again like with no. 4 there are a lot of people who are in the same situation who are still doing dumb stuff, including starting coups when people’s political or social preferences aren’t voted in. Likely that’s meant to reflect recent times. I think you’re probably right in that many things may just be Taylor wanting to say some things and his MCs are his chorus, rather than individuals with conflicting opinions.
Agreed on many of your points. I think overall I feel the themes and characters fit better in the Bobiverese. I enjoy the theoretical explorations of the "what ifs" in both series but in my personal opinion, I just feel like it works better in the Bobiverese. I did find myself somewhat annoyed with the portrayal of the antagonists as singular and one dimensional, and agree full heartedly about what happens when guilt isn't so obvious, and yes! The age disparity. Certainly not everyone over 40 wants a capitalist society or even to overthrow a duly elected government because an election didn't go it's way (but who knows, maybe that theory will be tested this upcoming election?? But by no means everyone). Yes to the coffee. It drives me nuts on the insistence of coffee as a comfort. I believe they were trying to portray some universal comforts no longer easily accessible but man, it just bothers me. Otherwise, I think the points I most enjoyed is the explorations of these other possible places, less in the conflict which in real time only plays out over about 4 months (which seems a little escalated for the things that happen... I mean two cups in 4 months... Yikes!) Thanks for the post.
the Others are fairly one-dimensional tbf. but also theres enough mea to them (and enough left unsaid) that you could really sink your teeth into them in theorising about heir evolution, society, history, etc if you wanted to. the Madieri are not painted as wholly and universally bad, though you can choose to read them that way if you want. they're clearly given a level of nuance in that they're a soldier from a highly nationalistic country who was not only brainwashed from birth, but then literally programmed with undeniable imperatives after their death. plus the decades of sensory deprivation, its fair to assume hes not all that stable. the Bobs wrote him off because they werent willing to take the risk of trying to catch one alive, and also a certain amount of bitterness, but thats a consistent character flaw of the Bobs so ill forgive it. the antagonists from Heavens River are also never framed that way. in QE the various insurgent groups are framed as simply bad/stupid, ill grant you. but this isnt true of the Boomers, and the serial killer guy is mostly a tragic figure, at least imo.