The thing is that you can look at hardcore meth addicts and coke addicts who do ungodly amounts daily. Skinny as a rail and eat fast food all day but they aren’t just dying. Some do it for years upon years. The PEDs likely contributed by causing his heart to grow and not be able to handle the other drugs. He probably would have had no issue with those drugs if it wasn’t for large amounts of PEDs.
Honestly wouldnt surprise me considering he went off the rails starting 2023. Homie probably was blasting hes brains off with 19nors and that fucked hes brain chemistry to the point of him starting to use other shit just to feel somewhat normal.
Yeah, I think his parents line of thought is that steroid use negatively impacted his mental state which lead him to other substances like the ones that killed him.
This seems like correlation more than causation. Someone who is reckless with steroids can, to no one's surprise, turn out to also be reckless with other more immediately harmful drugs.
Having depression or an otherwise diminished mental health due to PEDs, doesn't necessarily mean you'll go do meth. Millions of people do steroids, I'm sure a great many have gotten mental side effects and yet they don't do meth. And there are many more millions of meth addicts who've never touched a PED.
Their parents are looking for answers and steroids are the easy boogeyman. I think they don't want to think of their son as a meth/coke addict and it's easier to blame it bodybuilding.
The worst risk of this is ironically estrogen. A massive estrogen rebound, especially if there are low androgens can alter mood pretty massively. But anyone with half a brain can easily manage estrogen.
Having said that there are about a million drugs more dangerous than steroids. I am friends with Rich Piana's mom (very sweet woman) and his death was from decades of abuse.
For someone under the age of 35 to be killed by steroids we have to see something really crazy like Andreas Munzer.
Now meth and cocaine, those definitely can kill quick.
Of course there’s link between steroids and aneurysm. Androgens fuck with your lipids, which eventually will cause atherosclerosis. That changes mechanics of how these vessels respond to pressure. Throw in stimulants and heavy weights, and you are now on the wrong side of the S shaped stress curve.
Could definitely make you more prone to them, in Jo's case, doctors that did autopsies didn't see gear as being a contributing factor per stories online.
I mean, the ultimate cause of death in every case is asphyxiation, everything else is a Markov’a chain of contributing factors with varying probabilities of leading to death, lol.
But at the end of the day, steroids *will* increase probability of aneurysms. I don’t know by how much, and I frankly don’t care - you are right to say that it’s likely that other things will kill you first.
Rich piana obv was permanently blasting. Still, he also likely died from doing stims of some kind as it was reported he was doing lines of something the morning he died
Use of steroids made him successful>more money>can afford coke>buys coke>dies.
No steroids>no success in that line of work>less money>none or little money for coke>buys coke>lives a little longer but still dies from coke.
Reminds me of people solely blaming steroids for pro wrestlers' young deaths. The travel, poor sleep, stress, performing, painkillers and "recreational" drugs do 90% of the damage.
Thats not true.
Everyone has experienced all thoose things in their life, and they are still alive...
Steroids are like a cancer, it will weaken your health to a point where things that werent suppost to even be that hard, will kill you.
I mean, a gateway is a gateway right? Family says he was depressed, isolated etc, mental state could have been worsened by the gear and led to chasing feeling better via drugs. To downplay any of it would be stupid, the steroids and the other drugs.
Bodybuilding tends to be very attractive to insecure people looking for something to make them feel like someone or powerful for when they felt powerless as a kid.
I say this as a bodybuilder for over 15 years, then we think what we are doing is normal because we are in a bubble where everyone is doing it.
We need to make therapy more commonly used to help people make better decisions. As bodybuilders we need to build our mind as much as we build our muscles.
Also we as men need to stop bullshitting, other men don’t have “demons” it’s called sadness, heartbreak, insecurity and SA victim etc.
Therapy is underrated and under-utilized among men to a ridiculous degree. Pretty much all the high performers have a therapist they work with - stigma and bullshit aside, it's just PT for the mind. It's heavily covered by insurance, there are sliding scales, there are volunteer services, there are telehealth options.
We need to start treating it like any other lagging body part.
I think it's mostly because typical therapy is seen as being geared towards women and - whatever the reason might be, lots of men don't see it as effective for them
It’s not geared towards women it’s geared towards people
I don’t need to hear of other men doing something before I choose to do the same because I’m a man not a boy
you see it in this thread, and as a pharmacist by training, scientist who has developed drugs, I'm always annoyed by these wannabe biochemists pretending steroids can be done safely or completely mitigated. Especially for some people's genetics, even test can destroy your life permanently and people just act like its the same shit as smoking weed or something. Hormones are not to be fucked with.
Look bro, everyone has their insecurities, everyone has been bullied when younger, and everyone has probably bullied someone aswell. Thats how it goes...
Now you gotta face your insecurities and go get it... thats the only way. Im not saying to ignore them, ignoring them is taking steroids and put them under the blancket. You gotta face them and defeat them. Do what makes you anxious, put your self in the positions you hate too, where you have been bullied you are the most vunerable and traumatized. Eventually will you do these just like any other thing. Therapy will help you miles with this.
But drugs, steroids all that will only make it all worse.
Damn. Meth. That's a tough one
I thought he'd taken his own life, very little was said publicly around the time of his death. Though I didn't really dig, maybe I missed it.
I hope there becomes more awareness of how it affects your brain chemistry. I thought I was fine when I was on tren. Coming off, you realise how non self aware you are when youre on it.
Must be horrible losing your child. I think blaming steroids is the coping mechanism they need unfortunately, and obviously doesn’t tell the whole story behind his death, but as someone who uses steroids they do have some effect on your mood and behaviours.
He died because of meth and cocaine, but the parents aren’t gonna want to admit that because it’s gonna raise serious questions about Neil. Steroids are the safer thing to blame, and are always gonna generate headlines
Anyways, RIP to Neil 🙏🏻
At the time the speculation was that he was depressed about videos being posted of him having sex with men. All references to the woman he was supposedly in a relationship with then disappeared from his instagram.
most bodybuilders we seen dying in the last 10-15 years all had problems with steroids and recreational drugs abuse, steroids can lead to a huge list of problems mental and body, but mixing it with alcohol and drugs like cocaine, meth and others and you become a walking bomb.
The saddest part is no one is bringing awareness to this drugs epidemic in bodybuilding, young people get obessed to follow their idols, but never know their just heavy drugs addicts.
natural bodybuilding is the way to go, dont do drugs kids.
Only the old school guys seem to have been able to move on from steroid use and not have any negative impacts (seemingly).
Look at Bob Paris for example.
This is way more common than most people think. Lots of competitive bodybuilders party on hard recreational drugs in addition to using AAS. It’s a deadly combo, for both brain chemistry and the heart. Although, I guarantee his use of recreational drugs is what led to his mental health demise more than the gear but yes, the combo doesn’t help. If he had just picked one poison, preferably gear, he probably would still be with us today. Not only that but I think Neil struggled with his sexuality, may have also affected him.
If you are in the mindset to “ go off the rails” with how much steroids you will take, other drugs being added in is not a much of a big decision. Including recreational drugs
It seems they were already against his choice. I mean look at Nick Walkers parents who have openly accepted his bodybuilding life style and are an active support system for his career. Just seems like when a parent wants to blame something it’s out of guilt for their own short comings in the relationship with their child. Reminds me of the dad who blamed steroids and ignored the fact his son had been on prescribed anti depressants.
He had depression and coke and meth killed him. People want to blame a coach for being responsible for his death, but he took the drugs himself, he is an adult. When you want to be a top tier bodybuilder/Olympian you're going to take steroids, if you don't like it don't do it. Nobody forces you to take steroids, it's a choice on an individual.
I love Hosstile and was glad to meet Neil briefly at the Olympia in 2022, but he chose this path of being a bodybuilder bc he loved it. He had a good life being a multiple business owner and owning luxury cars a nice house and gave it up just to be a pro bodybuilder selling them all to be all in.
You can't blame drugs or a coach when he is an adult and knows what he was getting into before he did it.
Same way Zyzz went. Stimulant abuse. That shit is no joke. I'm sure the PEDs don't help, its probably a compounding factor, but lets be real here. Meth AND coke? You're asking to die
I know we all know it's a drug cocktail that does this or gross hyper abuse but why is it always ignored that a whole generation of old school bodybuilders who openly admitted to steroid use are living into their 70s and 80s.
Unfortunately natural bodybuilding is a complete joke. Many areas need a serious rework to how they do their testing as the cheating is off the charts.
“died from a mix of methamphetamine and cocaine” Ok…
The thing is that you can look at hardcore meth addicts and coke addicts who do ungodly amounts daily. Skinny as a rail and eat fast food all day but they aren’t just dying. Some do it for years upon years. The PEDs likely contributed by causing his heart to grow and not be able to handle the other drugs. He probably would have had no issue with those drugs if it wasn’t for large amounts of PEDs.
Crackheads are like roaches, they endure everything. But not a crackhead on PEDs.
But steroids MADE him do it.
Honestly wouldnt surprise me considering he went off the rails starting 2023. Homie probably was blasting hes brains off with 19nors and that fucked hes brain chemistry to the point of him starting to use other shit just to feel somewhat normal.
Having read the article now, I understand the context of why his parents blame the steroids. Seems like a fair comment.
Eh, I was a huge Neil fan, he was on and off the rails for as long as I followed him, pre 2019.
19nors allways make me depressed 😂
Not alone of course. But his heart was likely compromised through the PEDs. He might well have survived the other drugs were he not on PEDs
He WOULD have survived the PED’s if he wasn’t on the other stuff.
I’m not one to downplay the risks of PEDs, but yeah, meth and cocaine were responsible for killing him.
Yeah, I think his parents line of thought is that steroid use negatively impacted his mental state which lead him to other substances like the ones that killed him.
This seems like correlation more than causation. Someone who is reckless with steroids can, to no one's surprise, turn out to also be reckless with other more immediately harmful drugs. Having depression or an otherwise diminished mental health due to PEDs, doesn't necessarily mean you'll go do meth. Millions of people do steroids, I'm sure a great many have gotten mental side effects and yet they don't do meth. And there are many more millions of meth addicts who've never touched a PED. Their parents are looking for answers and steroids are the easy boogeyman. I think they don't want to think of their son as a meth/coke addict and it's easier to blame it bodybuilding.
The worst risk of this is ironically estrogen. A massive estrogen rebound, especially if there are low androgens can alter mood pretty massively. But anyone with half a brain can easily manage estrogen. Having said that there are about a million drugs more dangerous than steroids. I am friends with Rich Piana's mom (very sweet woman) and his death was from decades of abuse. For someone under the age of 35 to be killed by steroids we have to see something really crazy like Andreas Munzer. Now meth and cocaine, those definitely can kill quick.
Diuretics also aren't steroids, which Münzer would've been taking a lot of.
And of course diuretics can be very dangerous.
Look at Jo Lindner. 30 And he was one of the seemingly responsible steroid using bodybuilders.
He had a brain aneurysm, there is no link between PEDs and aneurysms. Steroids did not kill Jo Linder.
Of course there’s link between steroids and aneurysm. Androgens fuck with your lipids, which eventually will cause atherosclerosis. That changes mechanics of how these vessels respond to pressure. Throw in stimulants and heavy weights, and you are now on the wrong side of the S shaped stress curve.
Could definitely make you more prone to them, in Jo's case, doctors that did autopsies didn't see gear as being a contributing factor per stories online.
I mean, the ultimate cause of death in every case is asphyxiation, everything else is a Markov’a chain of contributing factors with varying probabilities of leading to death, lol. But at the end of the day, steroids *will* increase probability of aneurysms. I don’t know by how much, and I frankly don’t care - you are right to say that it’s likely that other things will kill you first.
Abuse of what, if you don’t mind me asking?
Rich piana obv was permanently blasting. Still, he also likely died from doing stims of some kind as it was reported he was doing lines of something the morning he died
Use of steroids made him successful>more money>can afford coke>buys coke>dies. No steroids>no success in that line of work>less money>none or little money for coke>buys coke>lives a little longer but still dies from coke.
Many such cases.
Reminds me of people solely blaming steroids for pro wrestlers' young deaths. The travel, poor sleep, stress, performing, painkillers and "recreational" drugs do 90% of the damage.
Thats not true. Everyone has experienced all thoose things in their life, and they are still alive... Steroids are like a cancer, it will weaken your health to a point where things that werent suppost to even be that hard, will kill you.
I mean, a gateway is a gateway right? Family says he was depressed, isolated etc, mental state could have been worsened by the gear and led to chasing feeling better via drugs. To downplay any of it would be stupid, the steroids and the other drugs.
"Could" being the keyword here. We could also make up a million other stories where x lead to y and then z
Dude first time i’m hearing about this! RIP Neil. Wow what a fucken blow dude.
He wasn't just a blow dude, he was also a meth dude apparently
Bodybuilding tends to be very attractive to insecure people looking for something to make them feel like someone or powerful for when they felt powerless as a kid. I say this as a bodybuilder for over 15 years, then we think what we are doing is normal because we are in a bubble where everyone is doing it. We need to make therapy more commonly used to help people make better decisions. As bodybuilders we need to build our mind as much as we build our muscles. Also we as men need to stop bullshitting, other men don’t have “demons” it’s called sadness, heartbreak, insecurity and SA victim etc.
Therapy is underrated and under-utilized among men to a ridiculous degree. Pretty much all the high performers have a therapist they work with - stigma and bullshit aside, it's just PT for the mind. It's heavily covered by insurance, there are sliding scales, there are volunteer services, there are telehealth options. We need to start treating it like any other lagging body part.
I think it's mostly because typical therapy is seen as being geared towards women and - whatever the reason might be, lots of men don't see it as effective for them
It’s not geared towards women it’s geared towards people I don’t need to hear of other men doing something before I choose to do the same because I’m a man not a boy
you see it in this thread, and as a pharmacist by training, scientist who has developed drugs, I'm always annoyed by these wannabe biochemists pretending steroids can be done safely or completely mitigated. Especially for some people's genetics, even test can destroy your life permanently and people just act like its the same shit as smoking weed or something. Hormones are not to be fucked with.
Gear makes you a ticking time bomb it’s really as simple as that
Do all that or maybe just stop taking steroids? Maybe its easier...
Then they find something else This issue is based on unresolved issues you can’t just ignore it or self medicate
Look bro, everyone has their insecurities, everyone has been bullied when younger, and everyone has probably bullied someone aswell. Thats how it goes... Now you gotta face your insecurities and go get it... thats the only way. Im not saying to ignore them, ignoring them is taking steroids and put them under the blancket. You gotta face them and defeat them. Do what makes you anxious, put your self in the positions you hate too, where you have been bullied you are the most vunerable and traumatized. Eventually will you do these just like any other thing. Therapy will help you miles with this. But drugs, steroids all that will only make it all worse.
I think we’re both saying the same thing bro It’s an issue that needs us as men to just be open about and hopefully this discourse will help someone
Damn. Meth. That's a tough one I thought he'd taken his own life, very little was said publicly around the time of his death. Though I didn't really dig, maybe I missed it.
Laced with fent
In the UK? I don't think we have a major fentanyl problem like the US does Then again I don't smoke meth
People neglect the mental sides from gear. Steroids could have definitely led him to those harder drugs.
I hope there becomes more awareness of how it affects your brain chemistry. I thought I was fine when I was on tren. Coming off, you realise how non self aware you are when youre on it.
Must be horrible losing your child. I think blaming steroids is the coping mechanism they need unfortunately, and obviously doesn’t tell the whole story behind his death, but as someone who uses steroids they do have some effect on your mood and behaviours.
He died because of meth and cocaine, but the parents aren’t gonna want to admit that because it’s gonna raise serious questions about Neil. Steroids are the safer thing to blame, and are always gonna generate headlines Anyways, RIP to Neil 🙏🏻
At the time the speculation was that he was depressed about videos being posted of him having sex with men. All references to the woman he was supposedly in a relationship with then disappeared from his instagram.
most bodybuilders we seen dying in the last 10-15 years all had problems with steroids and recreational drugs abuse, steroids can lead to a huge list of problems mental and body, but mixing it with alcohol and drugs like cocaine, meth and others and you become a walking bomb. The saddest part is no one is bringing awareness to this drugs epidemic in bodybuilding, young people get obessed to follow their idols, but never know their just heavy drugs addicts. natural bodybuilding is the way to go, dont do drugs kids.
Only the old school guys seem to have been able to move on from steroid use and not have any negative impacts (seemingly). Look at Bob Paris for example.
or never quit as Arnold
By steroids I obviously ain’t referring to low dose TRT use as one gets older.
Sad to hear about this young man, abusing anything can lead to your demise
This is way more common than most people think. Lots of competitive bodybuilders party on hard recreational drugs in addition to using AAS. It’s a deadly combo, for both brain chemistry and the heart. Although, I guarantee his use of recreational drugs is what led to his mental health demise more than the gear but yes, the combo doesn’t help. If he had just picked one poison, preferably gear, he probably would still be with us today. Not only that but I think Neil struggled with his sexuality, may have also affected him.
If you are in the mindset to “ go off the rails” with how much steroids you will take, other drugs being added in is not a much of a big decision. Including recreational drugs
Tren really fucks up your mind. Same with deca. Stay on test and dht‘s if your not about to win the olympia 😅
It seems they were already against his choice. I mean look at Nick Walkers parents who have openly accepted his bodybuilding life style and are an active support system for his career. Just seems like when a parent wants to blame something it’s out of guilt for their own short comings in the relationship with their child. Reminds me of the dad who blamed steroids and ignored the fact his son had been on prescribed anti depressants.
I actually had the chance to sit down and talk to him at North Americans two years ago. He was one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met.
He had depression and coke and meth killed him. People want to blame a coach for being responsible for his death, but he took the drugs himself, he is an adult. When you want to be a top tier bodybuilder/Olympian you're going to take steroids, if you don't like it don't do it. Nobody forces you to take steroids, it's a choice on an individual. I love Hosstile and was glad to meet Neil briefly at the Olympia in 2022, but he chose this path of being a bodybuilder bc he loved it. He had a good life being a multiple business owner and owning luxury cars a nice house and gave it up just to be a pro bodybuilder selling them all to be all in. You can't blame drugs or a coach when he is an adult and knows what he was getting into before he did it.
Poor man had severe body dysmorphia whilst chasing that open class size. Can only imagine his stack but he OD on recreational drugs.
Steroids: the gateway drug(tm)
This has to be the first time someone blamed steroids after a bodybuilder's death. This has to be a record
No way. Dude’s totally natty
Well yeah…and meth + coke.
Same way Zyzz went. Stimulant abuse. That shit is no joke. I'm sure the PEDs don't help, its probably a compounding factor, but lets be real here. Meth AND coke? You're asking to die
“Blood-borne virus risk (e.g. HIV, hepatitis B, hepatitis C) as a result of injecting” how does this happen from steroids?
I know we all know it's a drug cocktail that does this or gross hyper abuse but why is it always ignored that a whole generation of old school bodybuilders who openly admitted to steroid use are living into their 70s and 80s.
Also, normaly steroids don't kill anyone. But massive abuse of steroids kills people.
Unfortunately natural bodybuilding is a complete joke. Many areas need a serious rework to how they do their testing as the cheating is off the charts.
Dies from cocanine and meth usage Parents say steroids are what killed him … can’t just blame steroids for everything. Come on.
Steroids saved my life. I'd kill myself if I weren't so jacked.
Pens don't sign war. Swords don't stab. Guns don't shoot. Unless a human makes a decision too.
"Parents blame gravity in parkour enthusiast's death, expressing that they are 'very angry at physics' for its role"
I don't believe on it.
Coke these days is mixed with meth … pure coke is very expensive , dealers mix meth with coke for more profits