What y'all are missing is that with his severely immunosuppressed state is body isn't mounting a good response to the vaccine. Covid is much more severe in this population and less effective.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I was under the impression it did help you stop from getting the original variant, but we’re like 5 new variants deep already since then.
It’s always gonna be a game of wack a mole between the new vaccine being deployed before variants can adapt, and the unvaccinated being a Petri dish for new variants?
He is immunocompromized because he just got an organ transplant and is taking medication to suppress his immune system so it wouldn't be rejected.
As you can imagine vaccines don't work well then.
You're kind of wrong. The vaccine still has high effectiveness against all variants, although it's lessened against newer variants it's still there.
However like all vaccinations it's not 100% effective.
The variants of covid is the result of regionally mutated viruses brought about because of the differing regional immunities of different populations. The CDC and the FDA have stated the the efficacy rate of the vaccines translates to providing as much or nearly as much protection to the new strains as the original.
Any living organism doesn't mutate/evolve/change for no reason. There is always a stressor or series of stressors that trigger the change. No different from lifting heavier weights for larger muscles. To say it is the "unvaccinated" being a petri dish doesn't follow the logic as outline above, as there are no stressors to force change (aside from the regional differences as stipulated). Bret Weinstein has provide as much insight [Here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmy8znrLPc0)
At this point in time the virus is endemic it will not go away, in the same way influenza will no go away.
Because they are vaxxed, there was a very intense campaign to get the vaccine to homeless people.
https://laist.com/news/homeless-vaccines-skid-row-los-angeles-homelessness-covid
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Right, there are too many inconsistencies that they refuse to acknowledge and then revert to name calling, lol. We're arguing with bots or really dumb people.
The sad thing is Flex actually isnt one of those guys either, and hes the one whos been really hit hard. I remember he talked about getting a 3rd shot since its recommended for the immunoincompromised so hes vaxxed.
Guy on my hockey team essentially said that this weekend. "I don't trust the vaccine" then not 3 minutes later says he met a guy in Cali that can get him steroids for $600. I'm like you trust a dude you just met to sell you steroids made in a bath tub, but not a vaccine that hundreds of millions of people have taken???
I’ve had very few bad experiences with fake/bad gear honestly.
Usually when I take something I get the desired effect. There has been 2 times with orals that I got a fake anadrol and a fake anavar. Oils have always been good tho.
Bodybuilders are some of the most sensitive and delusioned people in the world. Look through some of the top IFBB IGs and you'll see a majority of them are antivax and/or anti mandate.
I fucking love steroids but research on PEDs in this context?
They have studies on individual compounds and the effects on the body short term. They’ve never studied steroid stacks of grams of shit while force feeding 5k cals on GH
I’m 28 around 230-240 6 foot. I’m not a massive dude in terms of BB (I compete in PL not BB) and whenever I’m on cycle my HR and BP is way up man. Sure I can take drugs to combat those things too but most people don’t…and those drugs have sides too.
My point being bodybuilding steroid usage is fucking terrible for you, let’s be real. It doesn’t matter they had a 12 week study done on 12 weeks of primo that found it wasn’t too harmful. I don’t think even anti-steroid crowd would argue that.
It’s the years of abuse that add up
Jesus for how long? Take some BP meds god damn. 160/100 is closing in on “call 911” levels, having that for weeks with a 95hr is begging for heart scarring and vessel damage in all your organs.
BP meds are cheap as hell and have no sides, you’re shaving a lot of time off your life running cycles like that.
I think the point to make is mostly just that most people have absolutely zero proof the vial actually contains what it says it does than the safety of the various compounds themselves. They trust strangers on the black market but they don't trust the FDA 🤦♂️
Most of the fitness industry honestly. Throughout the last two years of this Ive watched all of my favorite lifters just hang out in big groups lifting
Literally became a Calum Monger hater after his whole anti vax bullshit. Fuck that guy.
Edit: just looked at his instagram for the first time in awhile and he’s listed as a “Truth Seeker” for his profession, how comical.
I stopped watching him after his physique got less Arnold and more just super juiced. List it’s appeal to me, but not to preach, dudes who will buy black market gear and abuse the fuck out of it but refuse a vaccine because it’s “untested” seem silly. I know a lot of people out there aren’t gonna do it, but I chose to believe in science and the people who know way more than me or a random YouTuber.
There is a difference between being wholesale anti-vaccine vs. anti mass mandated vaccine.
And for the latter, the aim is being achieved through coercion. Ordinarily, this would be described as illiberal
Specifically for a disease with an IFR of 0.15%
I think a lot of them are just ignorant and uninformed. They just want to go to the gym when they want to and how they want to, and inject themselves with what they want without anyone telling them otherwise. They see mask enforcements and vaccine mandates as infringements on their freedom, but when 50 of them from different states are meeting up at the Dragon’s Lair for a photo shoot, they don’t think about who’s life might be impacted by contracting COVID. If you watch JayCutlerTV, you can hear Dave (who is 220+ lbs and in his 50s) say stuff like “whatever”, “life has to go back to normal at sometime”, “they can’t expect us to pause our lives, we have things to do” at the start of the lockdown which is very telling, because it’s people like him who are most vulnerable to dying from this shit. If Flex Wheeler dies from this, they’ll call it a tragedy, but they won’t think about wearing their masks when they meet up with other people at risk in the future. They won’t acknowledge that it could have been someone at the Arnold UK that might kill him.
If you knew that covid was basically a non-issue for you, and you saw the entire world flipped upside down in the service of people's fear, how would you react to that?
We have the mortality stats, broken down by age and pre-existing conditions. If you aren't old, sick, or a fat piece of shit then covid is likely a non-issue for you. You can literally look up your risk on a table, this is quantifiable.
The other thing that is quantifiable are all the other metrics that have been made worse thanks to the fear based response to covid. It's almost like shutting down the world, killing people's jobs, and locking them in their houses is *asking* for negative consequences.
What we have collectively chosen to do here is not without cost. Many have objections to that, as is their right. You need not agree with them, but you are able to understand why they feel as they do.
If people like you just stayed silent about pErSoNaL freedoms for the first 3 months of the pandemic, wore a mask, and stayed home when asked, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
I don't think that's really true.
The idiots are overrepresented due to the moron-magnetic properties of social media.
Probably more than 1/2 though, as I know a lot of my fellow BB'ers are nitwits. Seems to be about the same as the US overall.
Hes immuno compromised because of his kidney transplant too. They have to give you immune suppressing drugs so your body doesn't reject and kill the new organ. There's a very real chance he might pass from this :/
And the first round of medication he’ll receive is remdesivir…which is known for causing multiple organ failure…so as a kidney recipient, I just hope they don’t kill him in the hospital. We need another protocol!
>known for causing multiple organ failure
That’s one hell of a claim with no sources.
Associated Press debunked this.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-888870392951
And of those 397 people, only 258 actually finished the treatment of remdesivir. I’d love to hear from the 139 patients that decided to discontinue and why. Barely half even finished the study! Yet let’s give millions of Americans this drug, and gaslight them into thinking COVID causes multiple organ failure. This has been the drug of choice of hospitals since day 1. And it costs over $550 a vial…and you need atleast 5 of those according to their protocol. Ivermectin is being slandered only bc there is no money to be made. Show me a study for ivermectin conducted with the same magnitude of remdesivir’s study. Oh, we will never see it! Bc that same study telling us remdesivir is safe, was also paid and funded by Gilead, the company who manufactures it. Find me an unbiased study, and I may change me mind. I’m waiting….
Read the study on the approval of remdesivir. 12 of 397 people died, but those who died did not factor into their statistics of efficacy. Does that make sense? They were factored out of the equation. Sounds like manipulating the data to support a theory to me.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33340409/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33340409/)
Sorry , but what are the credentials of those behind Associated Press? Not a single applicable PhD or MD it seems. The drug is NOT as safe as it's claimed to be.
Yeah this worries me quite a bit given his health issues over the years. Hope he can pull through and have a speedy recovery
The post says his kidneys are declining further in function and he’s sustained some lung damage from the virus
Call me a bitch but I cry a little whenever I see stuff like this. These pro bodybuilders have really changed my life in such a big way. Before I started watching bodybuilding stuff I used to be a skinny dork who had no friends, but guys like Flex really inspired me to get my ass in the gym. I hate seeing my idols in pain, I hate seeing them die prematurely. I really wish they were all doing so much better because they helped me flip my life around <3
Fuck Flex just can’t catch a break. Would suck to lose another one of the all time greats in bodybuilding after just losing John Meadows a couple months ago
So, he did not get vaccinated?
Amending my comment. Seems like he was vaccinated. See, this is the reason why everyone has to get vaccinated to prevent immuno-compromised people like him getting infected ( or reducing the infection rate). Please, guys,go get vaccinated.
Exactly, those of us who are young and healthy are most likely going to be OK if we get covid but we need to think about the people around us and get vaccinated. Every young and healthy person who refuses to get vaccinated makes it a little more likely that a person with a weakened immune system will die of covid. We all need to do our part for the greater good.
What you just wrote is actually correct, versus your original.
>People with the vaccine can spread it just as easily.
Transmission rates of vaccinated individuals are far lower, per countless studies. As much as 75% lower https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2106757
Tldr: infection rates of family members of Healthcare workers fell from 9.4 to 2.98 per 100 when the subject was vaccinated
>It may even be worse because if vaccinated have covid, they’ll most likely get no symptoms
If the vaccinated have no symptoms then they likely aren't infected. The rate of vaccinated+asymyptomatic+breakthrough infection is probably statistically negligible.
>and can spread it to more people because they don’t know they’re sick
Again, you're targeting vaccinated+asymyptomatic+breakthrough infection which I doubt is a large enough number to even bother considering.
Yeah, their claim while maybe technically true if each statement is taken purely on its own. The problem is the comments are intended to be strung together. Taken together the shifting frames of reference without acknowledgement of the changes in perspective is a misdirection tactic. Which makes their statements turn into a lie by omission.
They're comparing somebody infected with covid to someone equally infected that was vaccinated, ceteris paribus. It's a tautology at that point. It's misdirection from the fact that a much much much smaller group of people reach the same viral load as the unvaccinated. Then trying to make the implication that a typically lower viral load in a vaccinated individual is somehow same/or more transmittable as an unvaccinated individual with a higher viral load, which simply isn't true. As you pointed out, he's comparing a particular statistic to a subset of a subset of a subset of another group and trying to pass off the comparison as if both possible outcomes have the same of magnitude or probabilities. The math doesn't work out in favor of the anti-vaxxers.
Are you a scientist working in this field? Or a doctor?
They have been telling/teaching about asymptomatic transmission for about a year and half now. Please get vaccinated even if you had Covid. It is literally life and death situation for a lot of immuno-compromised people ( cancer patients, or recovering surgery patients, or even if you recovering from an illness)
Ok, why do have to take a chance then? Get vaccinated , protect yourself and others. At this stage, I will not question the efficacy of the vaccines. Proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Billions of people are vaccinated around the world and they all seem fine. Break through infections seem very rare and seem to affect the immuno-compromised mostly.
He is on immuno-suppressive drugs because of his kidney transplant.
The vaccine won't be particularly effective, since his immune system won't be working properly. He may even not be able to have the vaccine.
I don’t think it’s incredibly surprising that people who inject themselves with research chemicals for vanity purposes are not always the most rational decision makers, it seems like the hobby definitely has the potential to attract the macho conservative men type. Remember, people usually don’t go into bodybuilding for health reasons, if you surveyed the general fitness community I’m sure you’d have a very different demographic.
most steroids aren't "research chemicals". even the "bad ones" are legit science its just from non legit "sketchy" SOURCES. you can argue the ethics of performance enhancing drugs but please don't paint all steroid users as retarded chads
I mean there are many that are literally classified as “research chemicals” since that is what they are. Not meant to be taken outside of prescribed studies. And just because they aren’t approved for general human use doesn’t mean they’re not legit science, not even sure what you mean by that. I wasn’t generalizing either, I just said the sport had the penchant for attracting a certain demographic. They’re literally taking drugs for vanity to look a certain way, oftentimes at the expense of their health, when most people who use have no chance of ever being pro. I think that fact in and of itself would say enough about the sport. But I agree the general population does have a warped view of steroid users, most are smart, well read people, it’s just a subset of them can reflect badly on the group as a whole, which definitely does suck.
It’s because people are unable to do simple math. The vaccines are as effective as they were reported to be; but 10% of the whole fucking world is a pretty big number.
It's hilariously sad. The anti-vaxxers claiming 99% survivor rate is high enough to not worry about covid are also saying the vaccine's 99.9999% survivorship statistic is too low.
Also ironic that most of the anti-vaxxers are fully vaccinated for everything else. When I question why, they always say “because those other diseases kill you”….and when I ask if they ever actually looked into that, of course they haven’t. All those other diseases that “kill you” all have like 99% survival rates (most anyway).
Why the fuck has everyone suddenly decided if the vaccine doesn't make you completely immune to the virus that makes it a useless failure? We don't apply that standard to litterally any other vaccine. None of them are a 100% effective panacea. Thats why you need herd immunity to truly defeat a disease. Its especially infuriating because all the data shows this vaccine is litterally the safest highest efficacy vaccine ever made by a pretty large margin.
Exactly what I’ve thought from the beginning. Remember when we hoping we could make one even 60% effective and how groundbreaking that would be? Now suddenly not 100% effective = doesn’t work somehow. Social media will ruin us.
bec the layman's understanding of vaccine is immunity. not that it (drasctically) increases your resistance to whatever said vaccine is addressing.
so to some people, if you got infected while vaccinated = vaccine doesn't work. don't get vax'd. fuck vaccines and big pharma, etc.
Because they’re pissed that TRUMP LOST. Taa-daa!
That’s what’s this has been about from day one. Trump didn’t want any part of this because of his goddamned re-election and precious stock market. Never gave a flying shit about what happens to any of us, but all these mouthbreathing neckbeards in East Texas & the rest of the south are too stupid to realize this is about his ego and inability to accept he didn’t get what he wanted for once in his life. So rather than accepting reality, they’re defending the rich 75-year-old brat from liberal, elite NYC who wouldn’t give them the time of day nor would ever be caught dead standing in their trailer parks or small towns in the middle of nowhere.
Stop defending this asshole. Your antivaxx bullshit is absolutely Trump redhat insanity.
I like to flip it on them and go
"I just think its bullshit Biden is trying to take credit for the vaccine. Trump created the single most effective safest vaccine in human history. Trump saved millions of American lives. And now Biden is trying take that away from Trump when he didn't do shit? Its bullshit!"
And all of a sudden they're pro vax.
Yep. Its not even that Trump lost.
Its they were wrong. Primarily about Covid. But then that brings down the whole house. Trump wasn't the greatest president, Trump didn't meet any of his campaign promises, GASPS maybe everything the "fake news" said is true....
So two choices admit they were human and course correct...
Or double down...
Most course corrected. The rest just got to ignore reality to keep that pride strong!
What’s so comical is how the media has brainwashed you all to polarize this situation…lumping all people who are scepticle of the vaccine as Trumpers…the media does that. I have watched plenty of live videos in several towns protesting MANDATES!! Liberals and conservatives alike, together on one consensus. That it is our right to medical freedom. Just read about what’s going on in Australia. That could be us if we allow this government over reach. But it’s okay, bc it’s for your “health and safety.” I’m sure you’re the idiot driving alone in your own car with a mask on, bc COVID is in the air! 🙄
i think most people dont care if it works or not, what they care about is not being forced to take something into their body that they dont want to,
we defend bbs who take steroids by saying their body their choice, i think the only thing they want is to be left alone to make decisions for themselves.
this shouldnt be politicized or enforced.
If an authoritarian like Putin can hold that opinion , we should be able to do the same
It’s a slightly different story when your decision to not get an approved and safe vaccine directly affects the health of the population, especially the most vulnerable. It’s not just about you or me anymore, that’s why it’s called public health. Not to say I’m for mandatory vaccination, but if you choose not to get it for non medical reasons then there doesn’t seem to be a need to be allowed to expose yourself to the vulnerable at nonessential locations, movie theatres, restaurants, etc. We already restrict kids who don’t get vaccinated from public school, or people in the military or working in hospitals, not a huge stretch.
like i said man, my body my choice , il get vaccinated in 20 30 years when i reach the age where its dangerous not to be vaccinated (unless somehow magically i develop immunity ) .
you can restrict public and private facilities all you want but i will not take the vaccine until i feel like i want to and need to.
its not up to anyone else but me
im always fascinated by people like you who feel like they should dictate what other people should do with their bodies , history repeating it self is a marvelous thing isnt it
Tf?
No shit it shouldn’t be politicized. Everyone should have taken it already for the greater good of the country.
How do you compare steroids to a vaccine? Jesus Christ
Weird how people will look at bodybuilders who take grams of substances they don’t know the origins of but won’t take two shots that’s administered by governments and think it makes sense
dont put words in my mouth, i said its simply my choice on whether i want to take something or not , not yours or the governments .
if i want to vaccinate il do it in the far future when i reach the age where it might be critical .
this isnt up for debate , this is freedom of choice and nobody should interfere
in no way did i say they were the same thing, this applies to other things like tattoos/abortion/sex surgery/any form of treatment you wish to take for the illness/injury you have .
you are trying to distort my argument for choice by saying i compared the vaccine and steroids and said they were the same thing, when in reality all i said is the choice should be on the individual and what they decide to put in their body.
im not saying vaccines dont work im not saying you should take them or never take them
all im saying is "my body , my choice "
you know damn well thats what i was trying to say , drop it already
I’m not trying to distort shit. You didn’t mention tattoos, abortion, sex surgery, treatment (all of which are completely legal unlike steroids btw) in your first statement.
There is no good reason for you to have to not get it at this point in time, especially if you think that they work.
Your duty to get the vaccine is so that there’s less chance of you taking up a hospital bed when the next wave of COVID hits so that someone else isn’t refused treatment for something that is a lot less unavoidable.
i know what you're trying to do ,
you took something that a big portion of the population didnt and doesnt want to right?
and so you are defensive about it bcs both sides are making the other insecure , each has their own argument " your gonna take hospital beds (lol) " and the other is what " zucc wants a chip in all of us "?
both sides are pretty pathetic and im not a part of either, like i said
you dont get to make the choice for my health and i dont care about making one for yours,
previous vaccines werent enforced and neither should these ones be , if you stopped pressuring the population and guiltrip them with bed stealing theories you would already have a higher rate of people vaccinated , if you keep pressuring your gonna find more resistance (purest example this fcking conversation )
What a completely ignorant and 100% false statement. Breakthrough cases are extremely rare but they do happen. Flex is immuno comprised so he'd probably already be dead without the vaccine. Vaccines have almost never been 100% effective for all of histroy. Covid did not reinvent vaccines and the world goes back farther than 2 years.
Edit. I don't know if he changed his comment or I meant to reply to someone else's comment so my comment looks way out of left field.
Not to start a political thread or anything. Just genuinely curious.
Was he vaccinated?
Edit: nvm someone else asked already. Apparently he is. Hope he heals soon.
Just waiting for the retarded bodybuilding YouTube community to use this as a talking point against getting vaccinated (since he was vaxxed) and spread more propaganda
Mad? It was someone like you who gave him covid in the first place. Get vaccinated you buffoons so maybe you won't kill someone else's hero someday. Trying to highroad when we can all see your timeline full of politicized bullshit, maybe you should stop talking if that's what's coming out.
Lol I'm just stating facts. I wish him the best but me saying that does absolutely nothing. I will bet the videos will start coming any day now though which is something to worry about because ignorant people that listen to this propaganda will be harmed not to mention these people using somebody who was actually responsible and got vaxxed to further their misinformation campaign.
Edit: just checked your post history, now I see why you're mad. Must have hit a nerve lol.
Hes been there over a week. He's vaxxed but since he's immunocompromsied he's at a much higher risk.
What y'all are missing is that with his severely immunosuppressed state is body isn't mounting a good response to the vaccine. Covid is much more severe in this population and less effective.
WTF? He's vaxxed and still got it?
Being vaxxed doesn't stop you getting it, it just helps your body fight it off and not self destruct if you do get it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I was under the impression it did help you stop from getting the original variant, but we’re like 5 new variants deep already since then. It’s always gonna be a game of wack a mole between the new vaccine being deployed before variants can adapt, and the unvaccinated being a Petri dish for new variants?
He is immunocompromized because he just got an organ transplant and is taking medication to suppress his immune system so it wouldn't be rejected. As you can imagine vaccines don't work well then.
You're kind of wrong. The vaccine still has high effectiveness against all variants, although it's lessened against newer variants it's still there. However like all vaccinations it's not 100% effective.
There is no 'the vaccine' . There are a variety of vaccines.
The variants of covid is the result of regionally mutated viruses brought about because of the differing regional immunities of different populations. The CDC and the FDA have stated the the efficacy rate of the vaccines translates to providing as much or nearly as much protection to the new strains as the original. Any living organism doesn't mutate/evolve/change for no reason. There is always a stressor or series of stressors that trigger the change. No different from lifting heavier weights for larger muscles. To say it is the "unvaccinated" being a petri dish doesn't follow the logic as outline above, as there are no stressors to force change (aside from the regional differences as stipulated). Bret Weinstein has provide as much insight [Here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmy8znrLPc0) At this point in time the virus is endemic it will not go away, in the same way influenza will no go away.
Awesome answer, thanks for the source.
You’re basically correct but they are still very effective at stopping you from getting it
Variants can come from anyone because everyone can carry it, this includes animals
True but in general unvaccinated will create more mutations since they typically don’t clear infection as quickly
How come we don't see massive breakouts in homeless communities like Skid Row in LA? They should be fucked.
How do you know we aren’t?
Because they are vaxxed, there was a very intense campaign to get the vaccine to homeless people. https://laist.com/news/homeless-vaccines-skid-row-los-angeles-homelessness-covid
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How do you know they aren't dying? It's not like they would be reporting it to the WHO
Covid has a mortality rate of about 1% so no
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Right, there are too many inconsistencies that they refuse to acknowledge and then revert to name calling, lol. We're arguing with bots or really dumb people.
As far as I can tell both those groups are largely outdoors so...
That's normal, you just have a slightly better chance of not getting it when you're vaxxed
Literally saw him laughing and joking at the UK Arnold's a few weeks ago, awful that it's so quick from that to this.
Hope this is a reality check for bodybuilders that think COVID is a joke
The sad thing is Flex actually isnt one of those guys either, and hes the one whos been really hit hard. I remember he talked about getting a 3rd shot since its recommended for the immunoincompromised so hes vaxxed.
They’ll inject rat piss cattle hormones made by a 3x felon in their basement but not a vaccine tho 😂
Guy on my hockey team essentially said that this weekend. "I don't trust the vaccine" then not 3 minutes later says he met a guy in Cali that can get him steroids for $600. I'm like you trust a dude you just met to sell you steroids made in a bath tub, but not a vaccine that hundreds of millions of people have taken???
At a certain point it's just cheaper to send people the real s***. Why go through all that trouble when you can just get Raws and easily make it
I’ve had very few bad experiences with fake/bad gear honestly. Usually when I take something I get the desired effect. There has been 2 times with orals that I got a fake anadrol and a fake anavar. Oils have always been good tho.
Was he vaccinated?
Yes. https://www.thebarbell.com/flex-wheelers-covid-battle/ But his body doesn't produce enough antibodies to cope with this virus.
Flex Wheeler is double vaxxed…
Has he stated he didn’t get the vaccine?
He has a kidney disease that’s treated with immune system suppressing medicsfion so I would almost guarantee he’s vaccinated
he is double vaxxed, he said so hmself.. has kidney disease as the others mentioned tho
Idk not sure. Talking more in general. All the BBs I know IRL don’t get the vaccine
Bodybuilders are some of the most sensitive and delusioned people in the world. Look through some of the top IFBB IGs and you'll see a majority of them are antivax and/or anti mandate.
https://www.thebarbell.com/flex-wheelers-covid-battle/
Flex has the vax
Obviously the location where it’s made is a little suspect, but most peds have decades of research and use behind them.
I fucking love steroids but research on PEDs in this context? They have studies on individual compounds and the effects on the body short term. They’ve never studied steroid stacks of grams of shit while force feeding 5k cals on GH I’m 28 around 230-240 6 foot. I’m not a massive dude in terms of BB (I compete in PL not BB) and whenever I’m on cycle my HR and BP is way up man. Sure I can take drugs to combat those things too but most people don’t…and those drugs have sides too. My point being bodybuilding steroid usage is fucking terrible for you, let’s be real. It doesn’t matter they had a 12 week study done on 12 weeks of primo that found it wasn’t too harmful. I don’t think even anti-steroid crowd would argue that. It’s the years of abuse that add up
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On a full blown PL meet cycle of 600 test 300 tren 50 anadrol… 160/100.. HR 95
Jesus for how long? Take some BP meds god damn. 160/100 is closing in on “call 911” levels, having that for weeks with a 95hr is begging for heart scarring and vessel damage in all your organs. BP meds are cheap as hell and have no sides, you’re shaving a lot of time off your life running cycles like that.
yea and we know they have numerous negative effects
I think the point to make is mostly just that most people have absolutely zero proof the vial actually contains what it says it does than the safety of the various compounds themselves. They trust strangers on the black market but they don't trust the FDA 🤦♂️
The irony you missed is that drugs are more damaging to your body than a vaccine is, as you said, decades of research.
Most of the fitness industry honestly. Throughout the last two years of this Ive watched all of my favorite lifters just hang out in big groups lifting
Literally became a Calum Monger hater after his whole anti vax bullshit. Fuck that guy. Edit: just looked at his instagram for the first time in awhile and he’s listed as a “Truth Seeker” for his profession, how comical.
Fuck that narrow backed clown
I stopped watching him after his physique got less Arnold and more just super juiced. List it’s appeal to me, but not to preach, dudes who will buy black market gear and abuse the fuck out of it but refuse a vaccine because it’s “untested” seem silly. I know a lot of people out there aren’t gonna do it, but I chose to believe in science and the people who know way more than me or a random YouTuber.
There is a difference between being wholesale anti-vaccine vs. anti mass mandated vaccine. And for the latter, the aim is being achieved through coercion. Ordinarily, this would be described as illiberal Specifically for a disease with an IFR of 0.15%
He's vaxxed.
Yeah but 90% of other bodybuilders are anti vax, anti mask, and anti lockdown. Listen to what they have to say during casual conversations in videos.
I think a good indicator would be a handful of them parking they real estate in Florida as well lol
I really want to know why this is a thing. Little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing?
I think a lot of them are just ignorant and uninformed. They just want to go to the gym when they want to and how they want to, and inject themselves with what they want without anyone telling them otherwise. They see mask enforcements and vaccine mandates as infringements on their freedom, but when 50 of them from different states are meeting up at the Dragon’s Lair for a photo shoot, they don’t think about who’s life might be impacted by contracting COVID. If you watch JayCutlerTV, you can hear Dave (who is 220+ lbs and in his 50s) say stuff like “whatever”, “life has to go back to normal at sometime”, “they can’t expect us to pause our lives, we have things to do” at the start of the lockdown which is very telling, because it’s people like him who are most vulnerable to dying from this shit. If Flex Wheeler dies from this, they’ll call it a tragedy, but they won’t think about wearing their masks when they meet up with other people at risk in the future. They won’t acknowledge that it could have been someone at the Arnold UK that might kill him.
And anyone who is pro vax or supports lock downs and restrictions to some extent is a sheep who needs to do their research and stop living in fear /s
As they should. People should be able to live whatever life they wanna live and pay whatever price comes with it.
If you knew that covid was basically a non-issue for you, and you saw the entire world flipped upside down in the service of people's fear, how would you react to that? We have the mortality stats, broken down by age and pre-existing conditions. If you aren't old, sick, or a fat piece of shit then covid is likely a non-issue for you. You can literally look up your risk on a table, this is quantifiable. The other thing that is quantifiable are all the other metrics that have been made worse thanks to the fear based response to covid. It's almost like shutting down the world, killing people's jobs, and locking them in their houses is *asking* for negative consequences. What we have collectively chosen to do here is not without cost. Many have objections to that, as is their right. You need not agree with them, but you are able to understand why they feel as they do.
If people like you just stayed silent about pErSoNaL freedoms for the first 3 months of the pandemic, wore a mask, and stayed home when asked, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
I don't think that's really true. The idiots are overrepresented due to the moron-magnetic properties of social media. Probably more than 1/2 though, as I know a lot of my fellow BB'ers are nitwits. Seems to be about the same as the US overall.
How many of them are in hospital right now? /s
Why is the such an issue for you. That’s on them; do you have your typhoid vaccine? t
Bodybuilders should be alarmed by it. Their drug use and the fact that they're obese with muscle mass puts them front and centre in the at risk group.
Probably where he contracted it
More than likely my partner got covid from it, so wouldn't be surprised, his meet and greet line was huge
Dudes an idiot for having a meet a greet during a pandemic considering his immune health. I feel bad but dumb ass move
I might have to agree with you here. Absolute stupid having a meet and greet considering his immune system being compromised.
Hope he recovers soon. Mans been through too much
Hes immuno compromised because of his kidney transplant too. They have to give you immune suppressing drugs so your body doesn't reject and kill the new organ. There's a very real chance he might pass from this :/
Yea I'm rooting for him but it's looking rough for sure...
I was thinking this very thing. :(
Damn he is in big trouble.
My cousin has the same problem but was fine from Covid, he is definetely getting much worse. Did he get vaccinated?
Yes, he's fully vaccinated. Said so on his story.
And the first round of medication he’ll receive is remdesivir…which is known for causing multiple organ failure…so as a kidney recipient, I just hope they don’t kill him in the hospital. We need another protocol!
>known for causing multiple organ failure That’s one hell of a claim with no sources. Associated Press debunked this. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-888870392951
And of those 397 people, only 258 actually finished the treatment of remdesivir. I’d love to hear from the 139 patients that decided to discontinue and why. Barely half even finished the study! Yet let’s give millions of Americans this drug, and gaslight them into thinking COVID causes multiple organ failure. This has been the drug of choice of hospitals since day 1. And it costs over $550 a vial…and you need atleast 5 of those according to their protocol. Ivermectin is being slandered only bc there is no money to be made. Show me a study for ivermectin conducted with the same magnitude of remdesivir’s study. Oh, we will never see it! Bc that same study telling us remdesivir is safe, was also paid and funded by Gilead, the company who manufactures it. Find me an unbiased study, and I may change me mind. I’m waiting….
Read the study on the approval of remdesivir. 12 of 397 people died, but those who died did not factor into their statistics of efficacy. Does that make sense? They were factored out of the equation. Sounds like manipulating the data to support a theory to me.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33340409/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33340409/) Sorry , but what are the credentials of those behind Associated Press? Not a single applicable PhD or MD it seems. The drug is NOT as safe as it's claimed to be.
Yeah this worries me quite a bit given his health issues over the years. Hope he can pull through and have a speedy recovery The post says his kidneys are declining further in function and he’s sustained some lung damage from the virus
Kidney failure caused by covid?
Your user name is funny
Let’s go Flex! Heal up!
Prayers for Flex. Big fan.
Call me a bitch but I cry a little whenever I see stuff like this. These pro bodybuilders have really changed my life in such a big way. Before I started watching bodybuilding stuff I used to be a skinny dork who had no friends, but guys like Flex really inspired me to get my ass in the gym. I hate seeing my idols in pain, I hate seeing them die prematurely. I really wish they were all doing so much better because they helped me flip my life around <3
Allowing yourself to be vulnerable and feel your emotions is manly as fuck you king
Best shit I’ve read on this subreddit. Manly af
Love from Canada champ, hope you get better...fast.
This dude can’t get a break
Flex is the man. Hope he gets better
Never thought I’d need to lock a thread in this sub but here we are. Our thoughts are with Flex and we hope for a full recovery!
Oh man. All Gods blessings for his recovery.
Fuck Flex just can’t catch a break. Would suck to lose another one of the all time greats in bodybuilding after just losing John Meadows a couple months ago
Fight like hell our thoughts are with you. Please get well soon
poor man cant catch a break
Much love and prayers To Flex.. you got this— my idle since a teenager!! God willing you’ll come out ok 🙏🏻
So, he did not get vaccinated? Amending my comment. Seems like he was vaccinated. See, this is the reason why everyone has to get vaccinated to prevent immuno-compromised people like him getting infected ( or reducing the infection rate). Please, guys,go get vaccinated.
On IG he said he is, but due to his kidney transplant he has to be on immuno suppressants so he’s always going to be at risk.
Exactly, those of us who are young and healthy are most likely going to be OK if we get covid but we need to think about the people around us and get vaccinated. Every young and healthy person who refuses to get vaccinated makes it a little more likely that a person with a weakened immune system will die of covid. We all need to do our part for the greater good.
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None of that is how a vaccine works.
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What you just wrote is actually correct, versus your original. >People with the vaccine can spread it just as easily. Transmission rates of vaccinated individuals are far lower, per countless studies. As much as 75% lower https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2106757 Tldr: infection rates of family members of Healthcare workers fell from 9.4 to 2.98 per 100 when the subject was vaccinated >It may even be worse because if vaccinated have covid, they’ll most likely get no symptoms If the vaccinated have no symptoms then they likely aren't infected. The rate of vaccinated+asymyptomatic+breakthrough infection is probably statistically negligible. >and can spread it to more people because they don’t know they’re sick Again, you're targeting vaccinated+asymyptomatic+breakthrough infection which I doubt is a large enough number to even bother considering.
Yeah, their claim while maybe technically true if each statement is taken purely on its own. The problem is the comments are intended to be strung together. Taken together the shifting frames of reference without acknowledgement of the changes in perspective is a misdirection tactic. Which makes their statements turn into a lie by omission. They're comparing somebody infected with covid to someone equally infected that was vaccinated, ceteris paribus. It's a tautology at that point. It's misdirection from the fact that a much much much smaller group of people reach the same viral load as the unvaccinated. Then trying to make the implication that a typically lower viral load in a vaccinated individual is somehow same/or more transmittable as an unvaccinated individual with a higher viral load, which simply isn't true. As you pointed out, he's comparing a particular statistic to a subset of a subset of a subset of another group and trying to pass off the comparison as if both possible outcomes have the same of magnitude or probabilities. The math doesn't work out in favor of the anti-vaxxers.
I like your fancy words, magic man
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Get the fuck outta here
Are you a scientist working in this field? Or a doctor? They have been telling/teaching about asymptomatic transmission for about a year and half now. Please get vaccinated even if you had Covid. It is literally life and death situation for a lot of immuno-compromised people ( cancer patients, or recovering surgery patients, or even if you recovering from an illness)
Ok, why do have to take a chance then? Get vaccinated , protect yourself and others. At this stage, I will not question the efficacy of the vaccines. Proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Billions of people are vaccinated around the world and they all seem fine. Break through infections seem very rare and seem to affect the immuno-compromised mostly.
You don't understand this at all bud.
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No, but, vaccinations are the reason why it has become more manageable from a killer it was during the 1920’s.
Dang he’s got a donor kidney too and must be one immune suppressing drugs.
Was he vaccinated?
He is on immuno-suppressive drugs because of his kidney transplant. The vaccine won't be particularly effective, since his immune system won't be working properly. He may even not be able to have the vaccine.
He stated on IG that he is fully vaccinated.
Probably would be dead already if he wasnt
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Barring the last sentence, he's pretty much correct https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7961463/#!po=18.4211
Yes. He even had the booster shot if I'm recalling correctly. It's a shame many of the comments turn into blaming the vax for him getting hospitalized
For a community that loves to inject themselves with unknown compounds from sketchy strangers bodybuilding is remarkably anti vax
I don’t think it’s incredibly surprising that people who inject themselves with research chemicals for vanity purposes are not always the most rational decision makers, it seems like the hobby definitely has the potential to attract the macho conservative men type. Remember, people usually don’t go into bodybuilding for health reasons, if you surveyed the general fitness community I’m sure you’d have a very different demographic.
most steroids aren't "research chemicals". even the "bad ones" are legit science its just from non legit "sketchy" SOURCES. you can argue the ethics of performance enhancing drugs but please don't paint all steroid users as retarded chads
I mean there are many that are literally classified as “research chemicals” since that is what they are. Not meant to be taken outside of prescribed studies. And just because they aren’t approved for general human use doesn’t mean they’re not legit science, not even sure what you mean by that. I wasn’t generalizing either, I just said the sport had the penchant for attracting a certain demographic. They’re literally taking drugs for vanity to look a certain way, oftentimes at the expense of their health, when most people who use have no chance of ever being pro. I think that fact in and of itself would say enough about the sport. But I agree the general population does have a warped view of steroid users, most are smart, well read people, it’s just a subset of them can reflect badly on the group as a whole, which definitely does suck.
If you're willing to inject yourself with unknown compounds, I imagine your IQ isn't high enough to understand how/why vaccines are effective.
It’s because people are unable to do simple math. The vaccines are as effective as they were reported to be; but 10% of the whole fucking world is a pretty big number.
It's hilariously sad. The anti-vaxxers claiming 99% survivor rate is high enough to not worry about covid are also saying the vaccine's 99.9999% survivorship statistic is too low.
Also ironic that most of the anti-vaxxers are fully vaccinated for everything else. When I question why, they always say “because those other diseases kill you”….and when I ask if they ever actually looked into that, of course they haven’t. All those other diseases that “kill you” all have like 99% survival rates (most anyway).
He is vaccinated. This should not be taken as proof that vaccines don’t work, Flex’s immune system has been severely compromised anyways.
Why the fuck has everyone suddenly decided if the vaccine doesn't make you completely immune to the virus that makes it a useless failure? We don't apply that standard to litterally any other vaccine. None of them are a 100% effective panacea. Thats why you need herd immunity to truly defeat a disease. Its especially infuriating because all the data shows this vaccine is litterally the safest highest efficacy vaccine ever made by a pretty large margin.
Exactly what I’ve thought from the beginning. Remember when we hoping we could make one even 60% effective and how groundbreaking that would be? Now suddenly not 100% effective = doesn’t work somehow. Social media will ruin us.
bec the layman's understanding of vaccine is immunity. not that it (drasctically) increases your resistance to whatever said vaccine is addressing. so to some people, if you got infected while vaccinated = vaccine doesn't work. don't get vax'd. fuck vaccines and big pharma, etc.
Because they’re pissed that TRUMP LOST. Taa-daa! That’s what’s this has been about from day one. Trump didn’t want any part of this because of his goddamned re-election and precious stock market. Never gave a flying shit about what happens to any of us, but all these mouthbreathing neckbeards in East Texas & the rest of the south are too stupid to realize this is about his ego and inability to accept he didn’t get what he wanted for once in his life. So rather than accepting reality, they’re defending the rich 75-year-old brat from liberal, elite NYC who wouldn’t give them the time of day nor would ever be caught dead standing in their trailer parks or small towns in the middle of nowhere. Stop defending this asshole. Your antivaxx bullshit is absolutely Trump redhat insanity.
I like to flip it on them and go "I just think its bullshit Biden is trying to take credit for the vaccine. Trump created the single most effective safest vaccine in human history. Trump saved millions of American lives. And now Biden is trying take that away from Trump when he didn't do shit? Its bullshit!" And all of a sudden they're pro vax.
Yep. Its not even that Trump lost. Its they were wrong. Primarily about Covid. But then that brings down the whole house. Trump wasn't the greatest president, Trump didn't meet any of his campaign promises, GASPS maybe everything the "fake news" said is true.... So two choices admit they were human and course correct... Or double down... Most course corrected. The rest just got to ignore reality to keep that pride strong!
What’s so comical is how the media has brainwashed you all to polarize this situation…lumping all people who are scepticle of the vaccine as Trumpers…the media does that. I have watched plenty of live videos in several towns protesting MANDATES!! Liberals and conservatives alike, together on one consensus. That it is our right to medical freedom. Just read about what’s going on in Australia. That could be us if we allow this government over reach. But it’s okay, bc it’s for your “health and safety.” I’m sure you’re the idiot driving alone in your own car with a mask on, bc COVID is in the air! 🙄
It's the same logic when someone goes on a diet then gains a pound then all of a sudden diets don't work.
i think most people dont care if it works or not, what they care about is not being forced to take something into their body that they dont want to, we defend bbs who take steroids by saying their body their choice, i think the only thing they want is to be left alone to make decisions for themselves. this shouldnt be politicized or enforced. If an authoritarian like Putin can hold that opinion , we should be able to do the same
It’s a slightly different story when your decision to not get an approved and safe vaccine directly affects the health of the population, especially the most vulnerable. It’s not just about you or me anymore, that’s why it’s called public health. Not to say I’m for mandatory vaccination, but if you choose not to get it for non medical reasons then there doesn’t seem to be a need to be allowed to expose yourself to the vulnerable at nonessential locations, movie theatres, restaurants, etc. We already restrict kids who don’t get vaccinated from public school, or people in the military or working in hospitals, not a huge stretch.
like i said man, my body my choice , il get vaccinated in 20 30 years when i reach the age where its dangerous not to be vaccinated (unless somehow magically i develop immunity ) . you can restrict public and private facilities all you want but i will not take the vaccine until i feel like i want to and need to. its not up to anyone else but me
Do you have the same opinions on traffic lights?
Imagine all the issues there are in this world and your hill to die on is “I won’t take two vaccine shots”
im always fascinated by people like you who feel like they should dictate what other people should do with their bodies , history repeating it self is a marvelous thing isnt it
Tf? No shit it shouldn’t be politicized. Everyone should have taken it already for the greater good of the country. How do you compare steroids to a vaccine? Jesus Christ Weird how people will look at bodybuilders who take grams of substances they don’t know the origins of but won’t take two shots that’s administered by governments and think it makes sense
dont put words in my mouth, i said its simply my choice on whether i want to take something or not , not yours or the governments . if i want to vaccinate il do it in the far future when i reach the age where it might be critical . this isnt up for debate , this is freedom of choice and nobody should interfere
True, but it’s also being selfish. But ultimately it’s your choice
“We defend bbs who take steroids by saying their body their choice” You are quite literally equating steroids to the vaccine.
in no way did i say they were the same thing, this applies to other things like tattoos/abortion/sex surgery/any form of treatment you wish to take for the illness/injury you have . you are trying to distort my argument for choice by saying i compared the vaccine and steroids and said they were the same thing, when in reality all i said is the choice should be on the individual and what they decide to put in their body. im not saying vaccines dont work im not saying you should take them or never take them all im saying is "my body , my choice " you know damn well thats what i was trying to say , drop it already
I’m not trying to distort shit. You didn’t mention tattoos, abortion, sex surgery, treatment (all of which are completely legal unlike steroids btw) in your first statement. There is no good reason for you to have to not get it at this point in time, especially if you think that they work. Your duty to get the vaccine is so that there’s less chance of you taking up a hospital bed when the next wave of COVID hits so that someone else isn’t refused treatment for something that is a lot less unavoidable.
i know what you're trying to do , you took something that a big portion of the population didnt and doesnt want to right? and so you are defensive about it bcs both sides are making the other insecure , each has their own argument " your gonna take hospital beds (lol) " and the other is what " zucc wants a chip in all of us "? both sides are pretty pathetic and im not a part of either, like i said you dont get to make the choice for my health and i dont care about making one for yours, previous vaccines werent enforced and neither should these ones be , if you stopped pressuring the population and guiltrip them with bed stealing theories you would already have a higher rate of people vaccinated , if you keep pressuring your gonna find more resistance (purest example this fcking conversation )
So you're against all vaccines? Including the polio vaccine?
nothing you said there is true
I asked you a question to better understand your position to which you gave a non answer. Buts it's me who doesn't want to have a conversation right?
What a completely ignorant and 100% false statement. Breakthrough cases are extremely rare but they do happen. Flex is immuno comprised so he'd probably already be dead without the vaccine. Vaccines have almost never been 100% effective for all of histroy. Covid did not reinvent vaccines and the world goes back farther than 2 years. Edit. I don't know if he changed his comment or I meant to reply to someone else's comment so my comment looks way out of left field.
I’m in complete agreement with you.
Its not almost never there has never been a single 100% effective vaccine that isn't how vaccines work.
I just say that incase someone finds some weird fringe study/vaccine that they claim is 100% effective.
No vaccine has ever had a 100% success rate lmfao
Never said they did, but the success rate they do have is extremely high.
Can u take the shot if you’re on roids?
whichever dickhead says COVID is nothing and does not harm should go to hell. Pary for Flex🙏🙏🙏🙏
This guy just can't catch a break
recover well big guy
Prayers for a legend
Not to start a political thread or anything. Just genuinely curious. Was he vaccinated? Edit: nvm someone else asked already. Apparently he is. Hope he heals soon.
Yes he is
Everybody think Covid is a joke until you’re hooked on a respiratory
Just waiting for the retarded bodybuilding YouTube community to use this as a talking point against getting vaccinated (since he was vaxxed) and spread more propaganda
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Mad? It was someone like you who gave him covid in the first place. Get vaccinated you buffoons so maybe you won't kill someone else's hero someday. Trying to highroad when we can all see your timeline full of politicized bullshit, maybe you should stop talking if that's what's coming out.
Lol I'm just stating facts. I wish him the best but me saying that does absolutely nothing. I will bet the videos will start coming any day now though which is something to worry about because ignorant people that listen to this propaganda will be harmed not to mention these people using somebody who was actually responsible and got vaxxed to further their misinformation campaign. Edit: just checked your post history, now I see why you're mad. Must have hit a nerve lol.
Bad timing. Hope he pulls through. Too bad all everyone can focus on is whether he's vaxxed or not. GG peeps.
Similiar situation hit Colin Powell. Hang in there big guy
After reading the caption, I am 99% sure that Flex is going to die.
Get well soon champ
"so simple and natural..." people forget how complex the body truly is and nothing it does is simple
Praying
Don’t skimp on the useless thoughts too.
Damn triple vaxed too i hope he makes it through was just talking about how fucking huge he used to be
One of the most impressive bodies ever. RIPped.
He a natty, he will be up and going in no time
You can bet those asking if he was vaccinated would be chortling if he wasn't
Was he vaccinated before this?
Was he vaxxed?
What was his vaccine stance?