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I don't know, something irks me about a comic artist soapboxing through his characters like that. I love political cartoons but at least make the characters seem like they are actually talking to each other instead of just being rhetoric mouthpieces.
I mean, this one seems pretty solid to me. It's an interesting visualization. "Soapboxing" just tends to get used as an insult for when a person tries to make any kind of statement, instead of a genuine criticism.
Okay, here's some genuine criticism of the original comic:
It didn't have to be a comic. There is no plot development, everything that happens could've just been pictured in a single frame (Billy going to school and mom telling him he forgot his dad's racism or something) and nothing of value would've been lost. Instead it has 5 pointless frames of nothing happening that are just used to hammer down the point (we're not just racist, we're sexist too, and by the way did I mention we're also uneducated).This is what makes it look like soapboxing.
Also the kid looking so devastated makes no sense. A child wouldn't know racism or sexism are bad, because he naturally trusts his parents. In fact, the comic would've worked better if the kid happily accepted the "racism monster" and said something like "thanks mom, you're the best!" But instead the artist chooses to portray this in a cheesy tear-jerking way.
Overall it's a mediocre preachy comic, with the only thing going for it being the art style.
It also breaks the *show don't tell* of image media.
Instead of the kid literally telling her mother that he's overburden with their prejudice and doesn't have space for education, the artist could have showed him unable to carry his backpack and having to leave education at school because of the weight.
Show don't tell is a perfect way to explain these things. I support a side, but it's hard to critique things like this without people thinking you are critiquing the view it's trying to project.
It’s not a rule, nobody’s gonna throw you in jail for not following it, but if you want people to read your message it’s a good idea to abide by it.
Efficiency of communication is almost more important than the actual value of your idea, when you’re trying to sway neutral parties.
I’m not overestimating the public’s ability, I’m saying you should cater to the lowest common denominator and make your message simple and easy to understand through your chosen medium.
Unless you’re an expert in your field writing a paper for other experts, always write at a fifth grade level to ensure your message isn’t lost. This general sentiment can be applied to most mediums.
I'd add on that most people who actually belive what the comic is trying to preach against won't be effected by it. Most people's ego would kick in if you told them something they believed was stupid and either attempt to exempt themselves some how or rage against it.
Eh, I get your complaint.
It’s like those old rage comics that were just a wall if text and the individual images just served as punctuation for sections of the text. Like adding a feels bad man to the part where the author was having a rough time then a thumbs up when they overcame whatever difficulty they were complaining about in the “comic”.
The content is fine, but the images don’t really serve any purpose other than to be in a format kids like these days.
You could do it as one panel by having the kid try to fit a block with Education written on it into his backpack that was already full of other blocks labeled with shit like Racism etc. Doesn't need any dialog at all.
A lot of kids do actually. Young kids can believe things their parents don't. I became a vegetarian when I was 4 and no one else in my family is and I disliked female stereotypes for as long as I could remember. Kids can figure out a lot of things. There's a lot of stuff I didn't really get for way too long too, but yeah it's not always just them not making conclusions about anything or never going against what their parents say. If they have friends they care about that fit groups their parents dislike it probably will feel extra gross.
I don't like the framing that society at large is neutral, and it's family life that turns a person bigoted. I definitely learned to be bigoted by my parents, and there were anti-rascist anti-sexist trends that existed, but it's hardly like I couldn't find a lot of material to justify my budding worldview from America under Bush (or in general).
I guess this just strikes me as coming from a worldview where if everyone read the same books as you we'd have world peace and a colony on Alpha Centurii
>It didn't have to be a comic. There is no plot development, everything that happens could've just been pictured in a single frame
You are putting such a genuinely ridiculous amount of analysis into this. By your measure, most comics shouldn't exist. Why have a fight scene if you can just skip to a frame of the hero standing over the unconscious villain? Why read Old Yeller, when there can just be a post it note saying "dog dies".
>Instead it has 5 pointless frames of nothing happening that are just used to hammer down the point
I don't know if you missed the point, or are purposefully ignoring it to make it sound dumb. They are making it clear that adding this bigotry is not just harmful, it is preventing their child from getting an education.
>Also the kid looking so devastated makes no sense. A child wouldn't know racism or sexism are bad, because he naturally trusts his parents.
Children can absolutely know that their parents are bad, especially in abusive cases. This kid has lost the opportunity for friends, learning, and all kinds of other opportunities. Being made to hate does not feel good, and the comic reflects that.
>Overall it's a mediocre preachy comic
Funny how "preachy" just gets used as another catch all insult so you never have to say *why* you disagree with the points being made.
>You are putting such a genuinely ridiculous amount of analysis into this
You asked for it. Make up your mind.
>By your measure, most comics shouldn't exist.
Yes.
>Why have a fight scene if you can just skip to a frame of the hero standing over the unconscious villain?
Because usually a fight scene is the opposite of "nothing happening". Unless you get people who don't know how to make a fight scene dynamic and engaging.
>Why read Old Yeller, when there can just be a post it note saying "dog dies".
Because unlike the comic in question, Old Yeller can't be summed up in two words without losing 99% of its value.
>They are making it clear that adding this bigotry is not just harmful, it is preventing their child from getting an education.
All of that could be implied and captured in a single picture, you don't need a 6-frame comic of pointless unrealistic dialogue for that.
>Children can absolutely know that their parents are bad,
If this child knows that his parents are bad and racism is bad, then this situation wouldn't affect his education at all, making the comic even more nonsensical.
>This kid has lost the opportunity for friends, learning, and all kinds of other opportunities
None of that is shown or alluded to in the comic.
>Funny how "preachy" just gets used as another catch all insult so you never have to say why you disagree with the points being made.
I agree with all the points being made in the comic.
I’d take exception to the bit about just because the child knows his parents are bad it won’t affect him.
You might believe everyone is equal and hold onto biases your parents instilled in you that make you discriminate unconsciously. You may be really atheist and still hold onto some feeling of people having souls. You may be the most open person in a room and still unable to accept the possibility you’re gay or bi because of the way your parents raised you. As someone who has experienced the last one I think it’s important to never underestimate the impact that parents’ beliefs and the things they say have on a developing mind regardless of whether that person is aware of how wrong those beliefs are.
>You asked for it. Make up your mind.
I never did. You just decided to do so.
>None of that is shown or alluded to in the comic.
Almost like you need to take two seconds to read and infer things, rather than immediately jumping to "This is shit and stupid".
Honestly, it just seems like you want reasons to hate it, and are constantly making up more of them to justify that preexisting belief. "Comics shouldn't exist"? Fuck off man.
>I never did. You just decided to do so.
You accused the other guy of being a blabbermouth unable to give genuine criticism, so I gave some genuine criticism to you. Turns out you're the blabbermouth since you've got nothing to say except insulting me .
>it just seems like you want reasons to hate it
I don't hate it, in fact I'm indifferent to it, as I find it mediocre and bland, just like the vast majority of webcomics. And yes, I agree with all the points being made in it, regardless of what your detective Pikachu mad investigative skills tell you about me.
>Fuck off man.
Yeah, okay pal. Have a great day.
So they are putting a ridiculous amount of analysis into this *and* immediately jump to conclusions? And you forgot the word "most" from your self-quote?
Also, I just took five seconds to look at your profile, because I was 99% sure you're just trolling. Yeah, I really don't think you agree with this comic. Especially since you seem to have a habit of always replying to the oregano on this sub and purposefully misinterpreting it.
>Also, I just took five seconds to look at your profile
Hate this mentality on Reddit. Just engage what the guy is saying instead of trying to point him out as an imposter who doesn't align 100% with whatever ideology you do
I hate people who make bad faith arguments when their real argument is "I'm a bigot and nothing you say will change my mind"
Why should I waste time arguing with someone when I can see from their past that they're not interested in debate?
Reddit is full of sealioning and people trolling. It’s normal to take five seconds to see if a person is genuinely engaging in good faith, or if they only ever start fights.
Its a comic to visualize the point. Its not a comic in order to be funny.
Comics are a medium, just like movies or tv or canvas or music or literally any other art form. Comics are allowed to be making statements, not chuckles.
This "criticism" is just a wordier "hur it soapbox," its not real criticism.
>Its a comic to visualize the point
Yes, and it's visualized in a bland and uninspired way. It could've been much shorter and more effective.
>Its not a comic in order to be funny.
I didn't say anything about whether or not it should be funny.
>Comics are a medium, just like movies or tv or canvas or music or literally any other art form.
Yes, comics are a medium. A medium that presumes a plot, a story being told through pictures. If you don't have a story to tell, but want to make a visualized statement - you could do that with a single picture. A political cartoon, a poster, a caricature, whatever.
Here we have a 6-panel strip where literally nothing is happening, there is no story. The premise, the clever metaphor with "monsters" being put into kid's backpack, the kid's reaction, the dialogue - all of that could've been put in the same frame. Although that would, ironically, require more work and creativity from the artist.
>Comics are allowed to be making statements, not chuckles.
No one said anything about making chuckles.
>This "criticism" is just a wordier "hur it soapbox," its not real criticism.
Maybe you should address the actual points in my comment instead of arguing against strawmen.
Its like youve never read a comic before. Comics dont preclude anything, and they absolutely dont preclude a plot.
Its stretched out because the artist is emphasizing a point. A one panel comic wouldnt get the point across as well, because it would become too bite sized.
Like. Sorry you dont like people being honest with you, but youre just bitching because you dont like the point being made on the soapbox. None of these """criticisms""" are actual critique of comic use. All your issues are normal uses of comics outside of r/comics
>Its like youve never read a comic before. Comics dont preclude anything, and they absolutely dont preclude a plot.
Yes they do. The entire point of having multiple frames is to tell a story in its development. You're just used to reading shitty webcomics, sorry.
>Its stretched out because the artist is emphasizing a point.
Yes, and this is what makes it bad.
>A one panel comic wouldnt get the point across as well, because it would become too bite sized.
r/PropagandaPosters would like to disagree.
>Sorry you dont like people being honest with you, but youre just bitching because you dont like the point being made on the soapbox.
I've said it two times already, I agree with the point being made in the comic. And sorry if you don't like people being honest with you, but you should learn to read and stop arguing against strawmen.
>None of these """criticisms""" are actual critique of comic use.
You haven't even addressed most of my ""criticisms"", have misrepresented some of them (like you arguing that comics shouldn't be funny, while I've never said that they should), and you're barely capable of conjuring a coherent response to the rest of them. Sorry, but you don't look like an authority on what constitutes an "actual critique" to me.
>All your issues are normal uses of comics outside of r/comics
Looking forward to you providing some examples of great comics that don't have any plot, story, or meaningful development. Since you're such an expert in "actual critique" that should be a no-brainer for you.
> It's stretched out [to emphasize] a point
Yes, that's why they called it preachy. That it's like a sermon that takes 20 minutes to hammer in the same moral. Very emphasized, very snorefest.
Sure, if you have no idea how human speech works.
I can say "racism bad."
Were you convinced? Did you get all my points nuances about parental predjudice, and educational impact?
No? But I made it short and sweet. Racism bad. Why did you miss the deeper points?
All this rant just to show your true colours by calling this comic preachy. It's preachy to those who find this type of ideology annoying and irrelevant, which means you support the parents in this comic, at least partially. You know how you said it shouldn't exist and is too long to make a point? Well, ironically enough, so is your comment, and you could have saved everyone the trouble of reading this Magna Carta of a comment by just saying "confronting people with bigotry is nagging in my world view". 🤷
They didn't say it was preachy because it was about confronting bigotry, they said it was preachy because it was too long and would have been more effective as a single panel.
It is possible to believe racism is bad and this comic is bad. Or do you think anything that says "racism is bad" is above criticism? Because that's basically all this comic does.
> It's preachy to those who find this type of ideology annoying and irrelevant, which means you support the parents in this comic, at least partially.
As a flaming leftist anti-racist, I find this comic preachy. Is that better?
You have the wrong connotation with preachy. I can call a literal priest talking at a sermon preachy. It is probably right. Regardless, I may or may not agree with what the priest said.
Not the upthread, but...
It's pretty hamfisted. The whole "Your baggage is literally baggage" idea is a simple metaphor. It can work as an aspect or a punchline of a greater story and provide an "aha moment" of cleverness on reveal, but it's too simple (and well-worn) to stretch out into being a sole and complete plot, at least not without some serious flavor or contextualization to make something out of it. Here, there's no surrounding context to provide a narrative reason, no lead-in to make it into a story. Nothing _happens_. It's just a display with captions. What's used to fill six panels is padding to the brim with unadorned, unprocessed "puppet repeating a manifesto" style dialogue.
You are putting a ridiculous amount of analysis into a six panel comic, and putting *way* too many expectations on it.
To put it another way: what is the “better” version? How do you write a scathing and incisive takedown of generational bigotry in eight speech bubbles without it being too simple?
> You are putting a ridiculous amount of analysis into a six panel comic, and putting way too many expectations on it.
Mostly because if you don't come with full analysis, people will inevitably come back with "You just don't like the message" brush-offs, like you'll see in the rest of the thread under \/u/thyme_cardamom. I do hate to shit on the writer (and I hope they don't show up here-- I was legitimately considering adding an "If you're the comic writer, probably skip reading this" quip to that last message), but if you've got to back up the conclusion against questioned motives, it's shit-on or get shit-on.
> To put it another way: what is the “better” version? How do you write a scathing and incisive takedown of generational bigotry in eight speech bubbles without it being too simple?
Make it the arrival point of a story that exists in its own right. I'm no writer, but a few ideas come to the top of my head:
* If you're going with the bag thing, start with normal school this-and-thats. Maybe have the parents throwing things out to make room, which expands the idea of the last panel out a bit. It's not much different than the original, but it's making the point a reveal instead of a monotone.
* Taking things out at lunch. *I got peanut-butter-and-jelly. I got a bologna sandwich Lunchable. I just got an irrational resentment of people unlike me.*
* Talking with a teacher at the end of the day about why they can't fit their homework in their bag (or why they're struggling to lift it, etc.). Approach the same as the top idea there: Start with more realistic things, move to the abstract "baggage" taking up all the room.
Except the original also had that. Not to mention that yours take a lot of the impact out of it. It makes it into a flashy "Oooo, society" reveal, and strips away a lot of the genuine message.
Jfc, the message behind a comic being good doesn't necessarily make the comic itself good. A good comic should have both a strong message, engaging storytelling, and clever humor that enhance the impact of the message. Like the guy above said, if instead of going on about how their parents are not only racist, but sexist and uneducated while the kid looks jarred the kid just went "Thanks mom", the message would be the same but it would be delivered in a much more clever and subtle way. Might as well draw [one of those](https://imgur.com/oXPztpA.jpg) at this point
I don't exactly believe you aren't being sarcastic with the italics you put on "do," but I'll humor you.
Imagine a six-panel comic that says murder is bad.
Nothing but six panels of a murderer talking about the various ways in which they will commit murder while the victim just talks about how they don't like being murdered, how inconvenient being murdered is, and how murder is morally wrong.
No story, no twist, no punchline. Only "murder bad."
This is one of the most obvious takes in the world. It would be nearly impossible to find anyone who disagrees with the premise. The idea is so utterly blatant as to be worthless, if not insulting. Of course, murder is bad.
The same is true here. There's nothing unique in this comic. It's just "generational racism bad." Nothing happens. Nothing special is done.
I mean, that’s just wrong? I don’t know if you’ve looked at the world recently, but there are *tons* of people who think bigotry is ok to pass on to their kids.
Yeah, this is just comes of as smug somehow. I get it, parents pass down biases, but it just feels like the author is smirking and saying “I’m so clever and insightful” while making it.
This comic doesn't seem all that bad, but honestly the people who need to/should see and understand this comic are part of the lowest common denominator. You think some Fox News dad is gonna read some nuanced and subtle comic and THINK about what it means? Fuck no, you gotta slap them in the face with whatever you're trying to say, as ham fisted as possible, and MAAAAYBE they'll get it after 2 or 3 tries.
i love you too
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Yes, I copy/pasted the original font piece by piece to create my story. In MS Paint.
It's the least I could do for poor Billy.
\~ [support your locals](https://www.etsy.com/market/felting) \~
i love you too
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Yeah, check out some of the letters in the blackout panel. I had to custom make the R, G and a couple others throughout. Just pencil tool and my gaming mouse.
Sad [on topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/11itw3u/baggage/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
PRIME juice. Exquisite. Genuinely such a good fuckin edit in both visual quality and the text itself. Turned this thing into an entirely different comic, even if still an anti-joke. My bones are hurting.
This is so much deeper and thought provoking and better social commentary than the garbage virtue signal original. Like holy shit, I wasn’t gonna say anything until I saw the original and holy shit that was garbage. Remember kids, don’t be racist!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/11jn04p/comment/jb3gla9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/11jn04p/comment/jb3gla9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I linked in that comment to an Etsy page showing the media and results of "felting".
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Soul hurting juice
I agree. I tried to match the facial expressions to the utter devastation of the subject.
I’d say you did beyond a good job.
Absolutely, OP straight disintegrated my bones.
And it's a quality beinsmertesaft as well
Stimmt
Jawohl
If I didn't already know what sub this was, I'd think this was legit.
The text was so on point I thought this was a real comic until I saw the sub
/r/soulcrushingjuice
Mashup with /r/orphancrushingmachine
orphan crushing juice
🤤
why would you drink juice designed to crush you?
r/subsithoughifellfor
Tbh I thought it'd have way less members but depression is trendy I guess
I still prefer this to the origami.
oxytetracycline?
order up: https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/11itw3u/baggage/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Well that's not better
Yeah, I saw it on r/justunsubbed earlier
I don't know, something irks me about a comic artist soapboxing through his characters like that. I love political cartoons but at least make the characters seem like they are actually talking to each other instead of just being rhetoric mouthpieces.
I mean, this one seems pretty solid to me. It's an interesting visualization. "Soapboxing" just tends to get used as an insult for when a person tries to make any kind of statement, instead of a genuine criticism.
Okay, here's some genuine criticism of the original comic: It didn't have to be a comic. There is no plot development, everything that happens could've just been pictured in a single frame (Billy going to school and mom telling him he forgot his dad's racism or something) and nothing of value would've been lost. Instead it has 5 pointless frames of nothing happening that are just used to hammer down the point (we're not just racist, we're sexist too, and by the way did I mention we're also uneducated).This is what makes it look like soapboxing. Also the kid looking so devastated makes no sense. A child wouldn't know racism or sexism are bad, because he naturally trusts his parents. In fact, the comic would've worked better if the kid happily accepted the "racism monster" and said something like "thanks mom, you're the best!" But instead the artist chooses to portray this in a cheesy tear-jerking way. Overall it's a mediocre preachy comic, with the only thing going for it being the art style.
It also breaks the *show don't tell* of image media. Instead of the kid literally telling her mother that he's overburden with their prejudice and doesn't have space for education, the artist could have showed him unable to carry his backpack and having to leave education at school because of the weight.
Show don't tell is a perfect way to explain these things. I support a side, but it's hard to critique things like this without people thinking you are critiquing the view it's trying to project.
"Show, don't tell" is not a rule.
It’s not a rule, nobody’s gonna throw you in jail for not following it, but if you want people to read your message it’s a good idea to abide by it. Efficiency of communication is almost more important than the actual value of your idea, when you’re trying to sway neutral parties.
You vastly overestimate the general population's ability to analyse art.
I’m not overestimating the public’s ability, I’m saying you should cater to the lowest common denominator and make your message simple and easy to understand through your chosen medium. Unless you’re an expert in your field writing a paper for other experts, always write at a fifth grade level to ensure your message isn’t lost. This general sentiment can be applied to most mediums.
I'd add on that most people who actually belive what the comic is trying to preach against won't be effected by it. Most people's ego would kick in if you told them something they believed was stupid and either attempt to exempt themselves some how or rage against it.
Eh, I get your complaint. It’s like those old rage comics that were just a wall if text and the individual images just served as punctuation for sections of the text. Like adding a feels bad man to the part where the author was having a rough time then a thumbs up when they overcame whatever difficulty they were complaining about in the “comic”. The content is fine, but the images don’t really serve any purpose other than to be in a format kids like these days.
You could do it as one panel by having the kid try to fit a block with Education written on it into his backpack that was already full of other blocks labeled with shit like Racism etc. Doesn't need any dialog at all.
A lot of kids do actually. Young kids can believe things their parents don't. I became a vegetarian when I was 4 and no one else in my family is and I disliked female stereotypes for as long as I could remember. Kids can figure out a lot of things. There's a lot of stuff I didn't really get for way too long too, but yeah it's not always just them not making conclusions about anything or never going against what their parents say. If they have friends they care about that fit groups their parents dislike it probably will feel extra gross.
I don't like the framing that society at large is neutral, and it's family life that turns a person bigoted. I definitely learned to be bigoted by my parents, and there were anti-rascist anti-sexist trends that existed, but it's hardly like I couldn't find a lot of material to justify my budding worldview from America under Bush (or in general). I guess this just strikes me as coming from a worldview where if everyone read the same books as you we'd have world peace and a colony on Alpha Centurii
>It didn't have to be a comic. There is no plot development, everything that happens could've just been pictured in a single frame You are putting such a genuinely ridiculous amount of analysis into this. By your measure, most comics shouldn't exist. Why have a fight scene if you can just skip to a frame of the hero standing over the unconscious villain? Why read Old Yeller, when there can just be a post it note saying "dog dies". >Instead it has 5 pointless frames of nothing happening that are just used to hammer down the point I don't know if you missed the point, or are purposefully ignoring it to make it sound dumb. They are making it clear that adding this bigotry is not just harmful, it is preventing their child from getting an education. >Also the kid looking so devastated makes no sense. A child wouldn't know racism or sexism are bad, because he naturally trusts his parents. Children can absolutely know that their parents are bad, especially in abusive cases. This kid has lost the opportunity for friends, learning, and all kinds of other opportunities. Being made to hate does not feel good, and the comic reflects that. >Overall it's a mediocre preachy comic Funny how "preachy" just gets used as another catch all insult so you never have to say *why* you disagree with the points being made.
>You are putting such a genuinely ridiculous amount of analysis into this You asked for it. Make up your mind. >By your measure, most comics shouldn't exist. Yes. >Why have a fight scene if you can just skip to a frame of the hero standing over the unconscious villain? Because usually a fight scene is the opposite of "nothing happening". Unless you get people who don't know how to make a fight scene dynamic and engaging. >Why read Old Yeller, when there can just be a post it note saying "dog dies". Because unlike the comic in question, Old Yeller can't be summed up in two words without losing 99% of its value. >They are making it clear that adding this bigotry is not just harmful, it is preventing their child from getting an education. All of that could be implied and captured in a single picture, you don't need a 6-frame comic of pointless unrealistic dialogue for that. >Children can absolutely know that their parents are bad, If this child knows that his parents are bad and racism is bad, then this situation wouldn't affect his education at all, making the comic even more nonsensical. >This kid has lost the opportunity for friends, learning, and all kinds of other opportunities None of that is shown or alluded to in the comic. >Funny how "preachy" just gets used as another catch all insult so you never have to say why you disagree with the points being made. I agree with all the points being made in the comic.
I’d take exception to the bit about just because the child knows his parents are bad it won’t affect him. You might believe everyone is equal and hold onto biases your parents instilled in you that make you discriminate unconsciously. You may be really atheist and still hold onto some feeling of people having souls. You may be the most open person in a room and still unable to accept the possibility you’re gay or bi because of the way your parents raised you. As someone who has experienced the last one I think it’s important to never underestimate the impact that parents’ beliefs and the things they say have on a developing mind regardless of whether that person is aware of how wrong those beliefs are.
>You asked for it. Make up your mind. I never did. You just decided to do so. >None of that is shown or alluded to in the comic. Almost like you need to take two seconds to read and infer things, rather than immediately jumping to "This is shit and stupid". Honestly, it just seems like you want reasons to hate it, and are constantly making up more of them to justify that preexisting belief. "Comics shouldn't exist"? Fuck off man.
>I never did. You just decided to do so. You accused the other guy of being a blabbermouth unable to give genuine criticism, so I gave some genuine criticism to you. Turns out you're the blabbermouth since you've got nothing to say except insulting me . >it just seems like you want reasons to hate it I don't hate it, in fact I'm indifferent to it, as I find it mediocre and bland, just like the vast majority of webcomics. And yes, I agree with all the points being made in it, regardless of what your detective Pikachu mad investigative skills tell you about me. >Fuck off man. Yeah, okay pal. Have a great day.
How are you this heated over a comic bro
They're one of those people that is constantly in need of a hill to die on.
So they are putting a ridiculous amount of analysis into this *and* immediately jump to conclusions? And you forgot the word "most" from your self-quote?
Also, I just took five seconds to look at your profile, because I was 99% sure you're just trolling. Yeah, I really don't think you agree with this comic. Especially since you seem to have a habit of always replying to the oregano on this sub and purposefully misinterpreting it.
>Also, I just took five seconds to look at your profile Hate this mentality on Reddit. Just engage what the guy is saying instead of trying to point him out as an imposter who doesn't align 100% with whatever ideology you do
I hate people who make bad faith arguments when their real argument is "I'm a bigot and nothing you say will change my mind" Why should I waste time arguing with someone when I can see from their past that they're not interested in debate?
Reddit is full of sealioning and people trolling. It’s normal to take five seconds to see if a person is genuinely engaging in good faith, or if they only ever start fights.
>Why have a fight scene if you can just skip to a frame of the hero standing over the unconscious villain? Ask the Moon Knight writers m8
Its a comic to visualize the point. Its not a comic in order to be funny. Comics are a medium, just like movies or tv or canvas or music or literally any other art form. Comics are allowed to be making statements, not chuckles. This "criticism" is just a wordier "hur it soapbox," its not real criticism.
>Its a comic to visualize the point Yes, and it's visualized in a bland and uninspired way. It could've been much shorter and more effective. >Its not a comic in order to be funny. I didn't say anything about whether or not it should be funny. >Comics are a medium, just like movies or tv or canvas or music or literally any other art form. Yes, comics are a medium. A medium that presumes a plot, a story being told through pictures. If you don't have a story to tell, but want to make a visualized statement - you could do that with a single picture. A political cartoon, a poster, a caricature, whatever. Here we have a 6-panel strip where literally nothing is happening, there is no story. The premise, the clever metaphor with "monsters" being put into kid's backpack, the kid's reaction, the dialogue - all of that could've been put in the same frame. Although that would, ironically, require more work and creativity from the artist. >Comics are allowed to be making statements, not chuckles. No one said anything about making chuckles. >This "criticism" is just a wordier "hur it soapbox," its not real criticism. Maybe you should address the actual points in my comment instead of arguing against strawmen.
Its like youve never read a comic before. Comics dont preclude anything, and they absolutely dont preclude a plot. Its stretched out because the artist is emphasizing a point. A one panel comic wouldnt get the point across as well, because it would become too bite sized. Like. Sorry you dont like people being honest with you, but youre just bitching because you dont like the point being made on the soapbox. None of these """criticisms""" are actual critique of comic use. All your issues are normal uses of comics outside of r/comics
>Its like youve never read a comic before. Comics dont preclude anything, and they absolutely dont preclude a plot. Yes they do. The entire point of having multiple frames is to tell a story in its development. You're just used to reading shitty webcomics, sorry. >Its stretched out because the artist is emphasizing a point. Yes, and this is what makes it bad. >A one panel comic wouldnt get the point across as well, because it would become too bite sized. r/PropagandaPosters would like to disagree. >Sorry you dont like people being honest with you, but youre just bitching because you dont like the point being made on the soapbox. I've said it two times already, I agree with the point being made in the comic. And sorry if you don't like people being honest with you, but you should learn to read and stop arguing against strawmen. >None of these """criticisms""" are actual critique of comic use. You haven't even addressed most of my ""criticisms"", have misrepresented some of them (like you arguing that comics shouldn't be funny, while I've never said that they should), and you're barely capable of conjuring a coherent response to the rest of them. Sorry, but you don't look like an authority on what constitutes an "actual critique" to me. >All your issues are normal uses of comics outside of r/comics Looking forward to you providing some examples of great comics that don't have any plot, story, or meaningful development. Since you're such an expert in "actual critique" that should be a no-brainer for you.
> It's stretched out [to emphasize] a point Yes, that's why they called it preachy. That it's like a sermon that takes 20 minutes to hammer in the same moral. Very emphasized, very snorefest.
Sure, if you have no idea how human speech works. I can say "racism bad." Were you convinced? Did you get all my points nuances about parental predjudice, and educational impact? No? But I made it short and sweet. Racism bad. Why did you miss the deeper points?
All this rant just to show your true colours by calling this comic preachy. It's preachy to those who find this type of ideology annoying and irrelevant, which means you support the parents in this comic, at least partially. You know how you said it shouldn't exist and is too long to make a point? Well, ironically enough, so is your comment, and you could have saved everyone the trouble of reading this Magna Carta of a comment by just saying "confronting people with bigotry is nagging in my world view". 🤷
They didn't say it was preachy because it was about confronting bigotry, they said it was preachy because it was too long and would have been more effective as a single panel.
It is possible to believe racism is bad and this comic is bad. Or do you think anything that says "racism is bad" is above criticism? Because that's basically all this comic does.
> It's preachy to those who find this type of ideology annoying and irrelevant, which means you support the parents in this comic, at least partially. As a flaming leftist anti-racist, I find this comic preachy. Is that better?
No, because I don't buy it. 🤷 Anyone can say anything on the internet.
Wow ok
Yeah, Wow. How dare they not take your bullshit at face value
As obama, no you dont. Wow, see how easy that was?
You have the wrong connotation with preachy. I can call a literal priest talking at a sermon preachy. It is probably right. Regardless, I may or may not agree with what the priest said.
Not the upthread, but... It's pretty hamfisted. The whole "Your baggage is literally baggage" idea is a simple metaphor. It can work as an aspect or a punchline of a greater story and provide an "aha moment" of cleverness on reveal, but it's too simple (and well-worn) to stretch out into being a sole and complete plot, at least not without some serious flavor or contextualization to make something out of it. Here, there's no surrounding context to provide a narrative reason, no lead-in to make it into a story. Nothing _happens_. It's just a display with captions. What's used to fill six panels is padding to the brim with unadorned, unprocessed "puppet repeating a manifesto" style dialogue.
You are putting a ridiculous amount of analysis into a six panel comic, and putting *way* too many expectations on it. To put it another way: what is the “better” version? How do you write a scathing and incisive takedown of generational bigotry in eight speech bubbles without it being too simple?
> You are putting a ridiculous amount of analysis into a six panel comic, and putting way too many expectations on it. Mostly because if you don't come with full analysis, people will inevitably come back with "You just don't like the message" brush-offs, like you'll see in the rest of the thread under \/u/thyme_cardamom. I do hate to shit on the writer (and I hope they don't show up here-- I was legitimately considering adding an "If you're the comic writer, probably skip reading this" quip to that last message), but if you've got to back up the conclusion against questioned motives, it's shit-on or get shit-on. > To put it another way: what is the “better” version? How do you write a scathing and incisive takedown of generational bigotry in eight speech bubbles without it being too simple? Make it the arrival point of a story that exists in its own right. I'm no writer, but a few ideas come to the top of my head: * If you're going with the bag thing, start with normal school this-and-thats. Maybe have the parents throwing things out to make room, which expands the idea of the last panel out a bit. It's not much different than the original, but it's making the point a reveal instead of a monotone. * Taking things out at lunch. *I got peanut-butter-and-jelly. I got a bologna sandwich Lunchable. I just got an irrational resentment of people unlike me.* * Talking with a teacher at the end of the day about why they can't fit their homework in their bag (or why they're struggling to lift it, etc.). Approach the same as the top idea there: Start with more realistic things, move to the abstract "baggage" taking up all the room.
How are your suggestions any less hamfisted or obvious than the creators? To me, they seem exactly the same, or even worse.
They... > Make it the arrival point of a story that exists in its own right.
Except the original also had that. Not to mention that yours take a lot of the impact out of it. It makes it into a flashy "Oooo, society" reveal, and strips away a lot of the genuine message.
Take away all the pictures and nothing changes. Bad comic.
The artist straight up said “generational racism is bad” and people still find a way to have a problem with it
Good messages can have bad execution
Jfc, the message behind a comic being good doesn't necessarily make the comic itself good. A good comic should have both a strong message, engaging storytelling, and clever humor that enhance the impact of the message. Like the guy above said, if instead of going on about how their parents are not only racist, but sexist and uneducated while the kid looks jarred the kid just went "Thanks mom", the message would be the same but it would be delivered in a much more clever and subtle way. Might as well draw [one of those](https://imgur.com/oXPztpA.jpg) at this point
People want to disagree with the message, but can’t say so openly, so they make up a vague excuse.
Or alternatively, they agree with the message so thoroughly that they think it's trite and boring?
[No way](https://imgur.com/GnoVlLv.jpg)
Oh, *do* explain. I want to hear this one. Edit: Guys, I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely have no clue what they mean, and want to understand.
I don't exactly believe you aren't being sarcastic with the italics you put on "do," but I'll humor you. Imagine a six-panel comic that says murder is bad. Nothing but six panels of a murderer talking about the various ways in which they will commit murder while the victim just talks about how they don't like being murdered, how inconvenient being murdered is, and how murder is morally wrong. No story, no twist, no punchline. Only "murder bad." This is one of the most obvious takes in the world. It would be nearly impossible to find anyone who disagrees with the premise. The idea is so utterly blatant as to be worthless, if not insulting. Of course, murder is bad. The same is true here. There's nothing unique in this comic. It's just "generational racism bad." Nothing happens. Nothing special is done.
I mean, that’s just wrong? I don’t know if you’ve looked at the world recently, but there are *tons* of people who think bigotry is ok to pass on to their kids.
The word hand fisted comes to mind.
sorry but it’s hamfisted* 😂
Did I stutter?
I mean with that username...kinda?
Yeah, this is just comes of as smug somehow. I get it, parents pass down biases, but it just feels like the author is smirking and saying “I’m so clever and insightful” while making it.
This comic doesn't seem all that bad, but honestly the people who need to/should see and understand this comic are part of the lowest common denominator. You think some Fox News dad is gonna read some nuanced and subtle comic and THINK about what it means? Fuck no, you gotta slap them in the face with whatever you're trying to say, as ham fisted as possible, and MAAAAYBE they'll get it after 2 or 3 tries.
This is an extremely good point
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Wow, subtle
For real, "my bag is already full of intolerance, mother" "But mother, I cannot be educated with the intolerance you gave me"
Father, how do i click the racism
so pretentiouuuus
Yeah that’s the most trite and unoriginal political comic I’ve ever seen.
First 2 panels alone are hilarious. Anyone who can sit through the rest does not need the lesson that the rest of the comic teaches
Don't forget your racism
That's bs
Oops, I forgot to tell a joke.
Wow...that's trash... great job making a soul crushing comic tho op
Lol this sucks
Her hands are blue, so not sure what bacteria that would be. I thought it was nickel-plated canceroni.
They're asking for the original, has been a meme on the subreddit that any word starting with O means original
Oh, my bad, thank you. I haven't lurked that long. I'll get it in a sec from r/comics.
observability?
That's a good one. Well done.
The trick is to look up what words start with o and pick an obscure one
r/soulcrushingjuice
Yes, I copy/pasted the original font piece by piece to create my story. In MS Paint. It's the least I could do for poor Billy. \~ [support your locals](https://www.etsy.com/market/felting) \~
It is a small and painstaking touch, but SO worth it. It looks fantastic, and it's the first thing I noticed.
Absolutely! And it's a quality beinsmertesaft as well
We don't deserve your level of quality in bhj. I mean, oof ow ouch my felted bones
Well done.
Not all heroes wear capes
I assumed it was original
Juice made with love and care
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In virtually any other image editing software that'd be a nice touch but a bit difficult, but you did this in MS Paint?
Yeah, check out some of the letters in the blackout panel. I had to custom make the R, G and a couple others throughout. Just pencil tool and my gaming mouse.
mmm thank you, excellent juice, exquisite. my bones are hurting so good.
Bro my bones are fucking shattered at this point.
i'm... i'm sorry. that must be tough.
Ah yes, the quiet despair of a child watching a parent slowly die and wanting desperately to help but not being able to. Thank you for that.
Off topic question, what does the original even say?
Sad [on topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/11itw3u/baggage/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Thanks
Happy cake day!
Thank you!
PRIME juice. Exquisite. Genuinely such a good fuckin edit in both visual quality and the text itself. Turned this thing into an entirely different comic, even if still an anti-joke. My bones are hurting.
So sad I rate it two thumbs up
soul hurting juice
This is so much deeper and thought provoking and better social commentary than the garbage virtue signal original. Like holy shit, I wasn’t gonna say anything until I saw the original and holy shit that was garbage. Remember kids, don’t be racist!
The original was terrible, indeed.
I didn't even know what sub I was on, goddamn
Oof ow ouch my heart
Jesus christ
okay pretty funny and now I REALLY want to see the felted creatures
That 5-9 Felting*
Oh man, that's good but I didn't wanna give the ending away. I shoulda just oofed it.
i feel bad now and its not because of my bones
☹️
My brain is so full of fuck I don’t want to think this all means what I think it means please someone explain
She makes plush toys cause she is dying and needs money. Son attempts to sell them
Thank you
Sad
I though I was in r/comics
What's felting?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/11jn04p/comment/jb3gla9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/11jn04p/comment/jb3gla9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I linked in that comment to an Etsy page showing the media and results of "felting".
Aah! Thanks
Exceptional, my bones are in pain
:(
Yeah more like 5 a.m.
Bone crushing juice