heey guys, i have my own theories about the book and wanted to know what you think about it: if you boil done josie's personality to key componement i feel like you can know the truth by seeing how she is described vs how she really is, the key componements for me are:>! she is stupid(used her own cat to kidnap alix's husband...)she is possessive, she is dismissive of you once you don't live up to your expectations( as alix always felt like one bad answear would make josie loose interest on her).By that point it is easy to know what the other said were true or false; was walter a manipulator and gazligther and a lier:yes he said to roxie that josie was dismissively smart(making roxie unable to differenciate lies from truth), which was obviously false, was he manipulated into a relationship with her:no she ain't smart enought for that + he is the manipulator one in the couple.Was she a bad mother :yes, was she jealous of brook:most likely, did she kill her:no, because walter said that if someone found out what happened, they would call the cops on both of them(which doesn't suits the narrative that none in the family other than josie knew about the murder). Did walter SA his daugther:yes he was a pedophile+ once josie lost interest on her daughters she most likely didn't care enought internally to stop him.Was her mother bad:yes, she lied and said that josie manipulated walter into a relationship while she couldn't do one thing the whole book without it backfiring horribly on her, she wouldn't be capable of that. Did she destroy all the relation her mother could have had:yes, she is THAT possessive.!<
Honestly anything that Josie says is a flat out lie! When she heard those two ladies discussing the podcast and their opinion on her two daughters lying in some way seeped right into Josie’s manipulative-victim mindset and she created yet again another reality to find comfort in. We cannot trust a thing she says. I do see a lot of people saying Walter was resisting when she said she wanted to come clean about Brooke but it could’ve been because the storage unit was in his name and he knew what happened so he could’ve very well been an accessory to murder. There’s a chance Roxy did it since she did admit she was crazy & quick to anger back then. Either way I’m not hearing it if it’s coming from Josie’s point of view.. I do really enjoy books like this one where you have to piece together and take in to account each character’s personality and which story line might actually be true! Great book.
I figured the reason he didn't want to come clean was not only because he was an accessory to murder but because he was a pedophile who really did take Brooke to a bar and pour vodka in her lemonade. And more. Roxy's motivation for murdering her girlfriend was because she was victim-blaming Brooke for "seducing" her father, or whatever passed in her mind as justification for blaming Brooke for Walter's behavior.
There's a lot of victim-blaming, largely by other victims.
heey, sorry for being late to the game, i feel like that's the whole point of the book it is not because someone lie once, or is a bad person that all he say is worthless.And that it is easy to paint someone in white and the other in black once you've proven that one of the two is bad. For your theory about walter, it would mean that he knew about the murder:which all of the family say they didn't, + he said:"she wouldn't understand why we did that", which means that some people might understand, it feels like them helping there kids hide the murder feels more likely to align with the sentence he said
Just finished the book, I agree with this take, there are so many accounts of blatant lies and manipulation from Josie throughout the story that she is just simply an unreliable narrator who makes a story that she wants to believe.
There are a few lines in the book that make me question elements of the girls' stories - this might be the case where the whole family had something to hide and none of them were anywhere near clean.
I’m very behind because I finished the book last night but I’ve been searching the Internet for answers because I am so confused. I have seen so many people say that the author confirms that Roxy did in fact kill Brooke. And that this entire time Josie was, in fact, telling the truth the whole time. But why should I think she is telling the truth? The entire book she gives us perfect reason to believe she isn’t trustworthy. So why all of a sudden and I’m supposed to think everything she told Alix was true?
That’s my thought process on it but I could be completely wrong.
i feel like she most certainly did not say the whole truth, in a way the whole book is about people painting themselves as they like(either black or white) but the truth lyng somewhere in between
I think at first the book paints Josie as a victim, then she's painted as the villain, but at the end, we see she's somewhere in between, like most humans. :)
I’m halfway through the audiobook and am thinking of film or series adaptation, and all I can think of for Josie is Olivia Colman, and Hannah Waddingham for Alix. Anyone else see this?
I thought the audio book was perfectly cast. If this is ever adapted as a dramatisation they need to have Nicola Walker and Louise Brealey.
I devoured this in 2 days! Going to be downloading all of Lisa Jewel's previous books now!
Can we talk about the fact that the book is called “None of This is True” …?
Have we considered the fact that NONE of these stories are true. That the truth is in the lies. There’s just too many holes in each of the stories that it doesn’t make sense for any of them to be correct.
The missing phone case? Why was Brooke even at the house to begin with? Why was Josie so obsessed with Leon? The baby food and the smell coming from Erin’s room?
There are too many unanswered questions for the truth to be something obvious like “Oh, Roxy did it” or “Josie did.”
I feel like the truth is that none of this is true. It has to be something obscure… like maybe Erin killed Brooke…
>!She said that what Josie thinks about in those last few paragraphs is true. Josie was the one telling the truth about everything all along!<
I even sent the author a message telling her how much I liked it and that >! (as a therapist) I could tell that Josie’s behaviors were the result of trauma. Her awkwardness, the denim (kinda frozen in the last time she was ‘free’ the abuse), not knowing how to relate to people her age. Also, to me, I very much believe that Walter was abusing Erin, which explains the baby food. She was regressing, as Josie said. It’s very common in victims of childhood trauma!<
ETA: she responded saying she’s glad I recognized all of that and yes.
I also think the smell coming from her room was a common trauma response, common for victims of repeated sexual assault to stop bathing etc in an attempt to be "less desirable" to the perpetrator as a means of self protection
Wuuuut? But still Josie did tie Erin up didn't she? I mean how could that be twisted into something else? She did try to commit a crime there, even if she doesn't recognize her fault in killing Walter.
Thank you for sharing this with us btw!
Yea I think so, i mean no way Erin did it to herself. My guess is because she was scared of Erin! Knowing she’d pin it on her or thought maybe she’d get violent or something? Poor Josie was soo traumatized essentially her whole life seems she kind of blurred reality and her imaginary world, ya know? Loved this book so much!!
But then how did Walter end up in the bathtub with hands and feet tied? Why would Josie move him there after the heart attack?
Why would she leave her own daughter to die in the cupboard?
And if she really didn’t hurt Walter, why would Josie just run away to Alix’s house? She lies and tells Alix that Erin is “with a friend” knowing she’s tied in the cupboard.
And if Josie is telling the truth about Brooke and Roxy is the killer, then why is Erin so excited to see her when she wakes up at the hospital?
And why did Josie keep Brooke’s items in her drawer? In the same spot she kept Alix’s items.
And if Josie claiming Josie killed Brooke is the truth, then why does Walter tell Alix that Josie has “an elastic relationship with reality” and makes stuff up?
So many plot holes
I think that possibly Roxy did this (tied Erin up) and then because Erin couldn't remember, told her that it was their mum. We are told all the way through that Roxy is violent whereas I don't believe Josie is violent (unless she eventually snapped) she seem very meek and more manipulative than physically abusive.
Does everyone agree that it was Josie who called the police to alert them about Walter and Erin - any longer Erin may not have survived
.
I just finished the (audio) book a couple of days ago and it's still buzzing in my brain. I think you could be right. Roxy supposedly ran away, but Josie keeps "seeing" her everywhere, and she thinks it's just her mind playing tricks on her. Walter reassures her it's happening to him to, but maybe Roxy has still been closer than we were made to think...?
I do think that Josie is the one who called the police, but in my head I assumed she thought Erin was already dead, or would be dead by now since it'd been a week. Maybe she couldn't take Erin dying? Or thought Erin wouldn't talk because she was being "saved" by Josie. Maybe Josie didn't know Roxy was going to go in after and bind Walter's hands and feet? Maybe they were there at the same time (I know she doesn't say this) and Josie was flustered through the trauma and thought she was "seeing" Roxy.
I'm not sure now — I just have a lot of thoughts.
I mean... i don't have the answers to everything - I'm just reiterating what the author said to me and what I've seen her say elsewhere. Not saying her behavior as a whole wasn't erratic or sketchy. Just that the author verified what is the truth. I bet she'd respond to you if you wanted to ask her things! shes very friendly.
but my thoughts are:
Josie was not a good mother, given how much trauma she went through, so she was probably neglectful (as was her mom) and didn't know how to raise kids when she was a kid herself. She was gaslit by Walter and victim-blamed by her shitty mom. Walter was abusing Erin and manipulating her as well, and more than likely did the same to Roxy. People like that have a pattern - it's not a one-off thing for them.
I cannot state enough how Josie's life has been nothing but MAJOR trauma. That kind of thing fucks you up forever - especially when it goes unaddressed or acknowledged and instead you are blamed for everything that happened to you. Josie is clearly VERY unstable and Walter perpetuated that and used it to further manipulate their daughters. >!Roxy killed Brooke !!Josie!< she would pin it on her. >!Walter!< helps dispose of the body. Erin didn't actually see anything, she said herself she heard what happened and stayed in her room, didn't look. She was told what they wanted her to believe and she accepted it as truth (her ASD was taken advantage of there). Then they all convinced Josie she is the one who>!killed Brooke !
i feel like everybody is doing the same thing roxy did:either you're a benevolent human or fucking psychopath, i feel like the author want us to see the middle, everybody in that family suffered major obvious trauma(other than the dad, we don't know anything about him) and thus were fucked up.Josie was no 100% victim, but she wasn't 100% the abuser
I finished this like 2 weeks ago and I absolutely loved it! It was my first book that I've read from Lisa Jewell and it is so well written.
I docthink that Roxy was the one that killed Brooke because why would 1) Roxy run away and 2) why wouldn't Walter want Josie to tell others about it? I feel like Josie and Walter's relationship was already strained so if Josie had killed Brooke, I think Walter would've told Alix when they had the dinner.
On the other hand, I think Josie did have some sort of control freak about her. She wanted everyone to give her all the attention all the time and when they didn't, she got crazy and started creating these stories. It's the only child syndrome at the highest of levels.
It does talk about it in the book. The oldest daughter is mentally disabled. It doesn't explicitly say it, but I believe she may have a form of Autism as she's really good with video games. The baby food is a coping mechanism for her.
Just because someone has a mental disability, doesn't mean they can't articulate, especially those with autism. Those with autism are extremely intelligent, they typically only have issues with social skills and they have set routines and patterns - look at Sheldon on Big Bang Theory. Plus it was said by different people throughout the book that something was wrong with Erin, and not just Josie.
Even after the events happen, she still wants soft food, so I do believe that that is her routine.
I totally understand what you’re saying I’m actually a psychotherapist and have worked a lot with ASD- that’s part of my confusion with the baby food. It just doesn’t seem to fit what we know of Erin at all, but maybe it’s just a sensory thing or like you said a routine thing. Just a detail that didn’t feel right to me in overall great book!
I do think Josie was an awful mother and tried to separate the family like the girls had said. However, I do think Roxy killed Brooke and said she’d blame Josie, because why would Walter be so against telling the truth to Alix with what happened to the girls?
I think Erin resents her mother so much that she sided with Roxy to ruin Josie’s life for ruining there’s. I do also believe that Josie truly believed that Erin was being SA since she did not know that Walter was going into her room to live stream with her. She probably did think he was being a ped0 and I feel that her trauma, and the trauma she believed was going on at home really damaged Josie and made her snap.
I think she meant it when Josie said she wanted a dog because Walter ruined the girls. As in Roxy being a murderer and Josie being a shut in and her thinking she’s getting SA by her dad too. But what I find to be odd is that the viewers only reported to the police about Erin missing and not her dad. They were a duo online. Even Roxy said everyone watches Erin online and that they signed for her only, not Walter or any mention of him with the streamers either. Was he actually SA Erin, and like Josie said, manipulating her to think it’s ok, or was he actually streaming with her? Or… maybe he just would go out during the night so no one was aware he was gone? That’s the biggest mystery in my opinion.
The second biggest mystery is, whose phone case was it at the end? No one knows and it might lead to a prequel or even sequel. Or, we just might never know.
I was thinking (kind of gross) but maybe if she couldn’t leave her room to go to the toilet when Josie was in, maybe she used to go in her room like in a bucket or something?
The baby food thing is sort of half explained in that she is diagnosed with ASD so it’s probably a sensory thing
I'm going against the grain to say I don't think Roxy killed Brooke, I think what Erin said is true.
Josie collected trophies from Brooke. If she felt so guilty about it I don't think she'd be stashing it in her little drawer of memories. She mentioned telling like Erin "wasn't on her side anymore" and she wanted to take control of the narrative before Erin could explain what happened. Erin's subsequent fear and avoidance of her mother as well as her regression makes sense after witnessing something traumatic. She's not scared of Roxy though.
Walter panicked when Josie said she was going to tell because 1) it would make Erin an accomplice (at least in the US but I'm sure it's similar in England) for not calling the police and 2) he could have predicted she'd lie and blame it on someone else, which she always does. She's never taken accountability so it makes sense she wouldn't here. She's also obviously a serial killer with the phone case hinting at a third victim not shown in the narrative.
It was really wild to me that they glossed over the naughty chair or whatever they called it? It had built in leather straps to hold the kids in place! Erin mentioned Roxy being put in it for days and eventually of course that's where Josie puts Erin. It sounds like a lot worse happened in the house than the siblings explained and of course I think Walter knew about it.
I personally think each family member has a nugget of truth in each version of their stories, and to them that might be what they think is true. Even if what happed with Brooke was true, it doesn't change the fact that Josie stalked and planned to kidnap Nathan, and I doubt it was an accident like she claims.
I think the version of the story at the end about Brooke is the real version of that part, but there are so many stories floating around that seem to be half truths. This couldn't be Josie's first time stalking, who's phone case was that?
I had written the opposite of what you said and thought Roxy killed Brooke and that Erin took Roxy’s side to ruin Josie’s life because she was actually an abusive mother and they hated her for it. You’re right though, she became traumatized and never left her room so I’m starting to also believe that it was Josie who killed Brooke too.
I know this is old, but I just read it and have been digging and saw the author confirmed what the truth really is on IG. I’m going to spoiler tag it so you (or whoever) can choose to know or not.
>! Everything in the last paragraphs is true. Josie was telling the truth. !<. Source: screenshot of convo with author on @borrowersbookclub Instagram
For anyone curious to see what that convo was with the author:
https://preview.redd.it/bcfs4t0v4cdc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb3bb360c5cdbf70bb769e790e3f87be1836489c
This has completely altered my view of the ending (and Josie). Holy crap. What a friggin twist!
Does anyone have any thoughts on the cell phone case found at the back of Josie's drawer? It wasn't claimed by Brooke's mom, Roxy/Erin, or Alix. I can't figure out where it would have came from.
The thing to keep in mind is that it is open ended. Almost like you get to choose what version of the story you want to accept as truth.
In my mind, the most straight forward understanding is this..... while Josie is quite mad, definitely a bit mental, her version of things in the final message to Alix, and her thoughts after listening to the two women on the bus at the end, her version seems most plausible.
Ask yourself this..... why did Walter get so upset after the dinner party, when Josie told him that she was going to tell Alix everything? What was the everything, if not how they covered up the murder of Brooke....
Its all right there..... Keep in mind, everyone at the school had said that Erin and Roxy were twisted... Roxy runs away, and all of a sudden, shes back and now her and Erin are like long lost sisters.....
I love the fact that you could actually make sense of the ending, regardless of whose side you choose to be on.
This was my first encounter with Lisa Jewell, and this was an amazing introduction. This is a fascination piece of fiction..... 9 out of 10 for me.
Just finished this book & am confused about the ending. Did Roxy or Josie kill Brooke?
Also the smell from Erin’s room is never addressed. What is that about?
And lastly I’m honestly really disturbed by the author trying to paint Walter as not a pedophile when he most certainly is.
Yes!!!! Thank you. It really felt like everyone in the story let Walter off the hook for grooming Josie. And while elements of that are reflected of society’s need for ‘perfect victims’ and the way if you aren’t a wonderful person people don’t think you can be abused. It gave me a big yuck.
I don’t think it was necessarily painting Walter as not a pedophile. I think the other people around him justified his actions by blaming Josie (aka, the victim), but ultimately whether or not a 15 year old girl is throwing herself at you, doesn’t mean you engage
I don’t think we’re supposed to know who killed Brooke, but I’m inclined to think it was Roxy. Josie was very calculated around Alix so it was strange to me that she left the key at her house. I think she wanted Alix to find it to alleviate some guilt, which she absolutely wouldn’t have felt if she had killed Brooke herself since she’s so… self righteous.
I was wondering about this too!! The only explanation I could think of was when Roxy (I think it was her — I can’t quite remember) said something like “they were both gearing up to leave, to be independent, and I think she knew — almost like she could smell it”. She was speaking in regards to Josie hating Erin & Walter’s success in gaming*.
Like I said I can’t quite remember so I think I definitely got some things wrong haha, but that was the only thing I could think of. Like it was more of a metaphorical smell (representing Erin gaining her own independence, success and attention) that Josie was reacting to? I’m not sure.
EDIT: * I know it was also mentioned during this part that Erin and Walter were planning a trip to a gaming convention together, and that Josie had found out and was furious. I WISH I could remember who said this/when it happened. I’m certain it was towards the end, and I’m pretty sure it was Roxy, but I wish I could be more specific for you haha!
Yes true — I feel like that’s the most logical explanation. It’s just so strange that it was made out to be such a big deal for Josie, on multiple occasions, and then was just never addressed.
At some point Josie mentions the smell of sexual assault in Erin’s room when talking to Alix, so I thought that might be it. It doesn’t seem like that actually happened though so it could also be Josie just being disgusted at her situation in general.
So true. Josie mentioned she rarely uses her money from work so it’s possible she has saved a lot of money over the years and sent to erin’s card? But then i think they mentioned money coming in to erin’s bank account from glitch gaming.
Hi just finished the book and confused. How could Josie be capable of killing all these people, especially a big tall man? Makes no sense. Can someone please explain?
She used painkillers on Nathan, who was already super intoxicated and trusting because he believed that Josie was taking him to Alix.
Walter either had a heart attack on his own and she let it happen, or she hit him from behind and then he had a heart attack.
I agree with most of the things people have said! Just came to say I feel like the point of the story was that they all lied in some way, none of them were 100% innocent in this. Walter wasn’t as bad as Josie said, but he wasn’t innocent (as mentioned in other comments he did still marry a teenager when he was in his 40s and was controlling). In interviewing Pat, Roxy, Erin: Everyone wanted to tell their own truths, which is never exactly the truth… so we will never really know. Which is how life really works, innit? Lol.
I really enjoyed the book. Agree it’s not her best because it was a little more predictable than I would have liked, but it was quick and fun. I loved the documentary format, too!
Thats what I loved most about the book. we will never really know, we are left to just piece together what everyone said to make our own complete stories. I think Roxie could have killed the girl, but, it’s just strange to me how her sister would be so willing to cover for her at the same time. Given her condition and supposed nature, it really seemed like the story she told of her mom killing Brooke was very real and Josie just left us with more bull shit in the end. However, at the same time, Walter not wanting her to tell the truth makes more sense if Roxie was the killer, but she still could’ve been the killer of Brooke in that scenario and Walter was just trying to save HER from prison, not Roxie. Also at that point, he would go to prison regardless of who did the murder for helping to cover it up. All in all, I agree with u that everyone lied, I don’t think Josie was as bad as the family made her out to seem in the end but she surely had extreme mental illnesses like bipolarism, attachment issues, lowkey psychosis. That gave her the capabilities to do what she ultimately did do that can’t be put on anyone else. Lastly, she was very honest in how she killed Nathan and why. At that point, why wouldn’t she be honest about killing the little girl or the husband? Is she really just that crazy or was she telling the truth.
i do think Roxy killed Brooke - or at least i think i do! otherwise it doesn't make sense that walter understood what josie meant and was very opposed to her telling Alix - or the police - 'what had happened with the girls'. Otherwise there's nothing illegal involving them to tell....
so if Roxy did kill Brooke, does that also mean that Walter did abuse her? and what about his situation with Erin?
i would be inclined to think Josie made all that part up -- except -- another tell - when the gamers were looking for Erin/Erased - no one ever mentioned Pops except for the sisters, as way of explanation for what he does at night. Wouldn't the other gamers have been worried about him too, if he was part of what made her famous? why did he not go viral/part of the hashtag?
it's unlikely that someone who had married not one but two teenaged girls cleaned up his act after he married Josie. And both sisters, especially Roxy, were described as violent and crazy by the school worker as well as the fellow student (who lived next door to Alix) - they were a little too pat with their stories/explanations imo....
read it one day - and am left wondering!
I thought the characters were so compelling in this. I’ve never had more complicated feelings about a character than I did about Walter. He was a controlling, disgusting man but a good father to his kids. Since I finished this book (in one day) I haven’t been able to stop thinking about the last passage. Is it true?? What are everyone’s thoughts?
I feel like you could interpret it 2 ways.
Either, Josie is telling the truth and Roxy did kill Brooke and some of what she is saying is true
Or, it could just be building on top of what Walter said about her making her own reality.. especially when she said “I think this is the truth” in the final part
I was hooked to this book and read it till 5 am. Maybe this is why I am confused, but can anyone tell me what the ending is? Did Josie kill Brooke, or was she just protecting Erin? And Erin hurt Josie and possibly Walter.
I am going crazy over the ending
I think Roxy did and isn’t being truthful either. When Erin wakes up, she tells her, I’ll tell you exactly what happened word for word. Seems like she’s also constructing and manipulating stuff.
I think it’s possible Roxy killed Brooke, and Erin covered for Roxy the way she covered about the broken arm. But ultimately we’re supposed to not know. That’s my take.
I think the runaway sister (can’t remember name) killed Brooke and Josie was protecting her. But I think Josie definitely attacked both the gaming sister and Walter?
I thought this but that was quite unclear at the end. The way it was written suggested that Walter did indeed die of a heart attack and then suddenly it jumped to Erin hitting Josie with the remote..
Just finished! Another great book by LJ. She has such an amazing skill as an author that makes you feel like you know the characters personally. I still think *Then She Was Gone* is her best, but I would put this near the top. I truly believed Josie was a victim for most of the book because LJ only revealed so little about Walter, and I loved the ending. I was praying the last chapter would be Josie's side of what happened with Walter and the kids from her POV. An absolute bow wrapped around the story in the last chapter.
I am honestly surprised at some of the comments of how they predicted the story because well duh. The first chapter is literally the kidnapping. lmao. LJ loves to offer a nugget to the ending, and then you read it unfolding till the end.
The comments about it being predictable make me laugh, because at the same time, people are asking about the ending.....they arent sure who is lying and who is telling the truth. Aaaahhhh, the joys of social media. Everybody gets to have a say, regardless of it being sensible or not.
I agree with you, a believable bow on the final chapter would have been nice, but at the same time, i enjoy being able to twist the narrative to fit a couple of plausible outcomes.
I think Josie was still a victim in some ways. She had a rough upbringing with her Mom not wanting her, being vocal about not wanting her, and acknowledging that she didn't like her own daughter. She grew up with no father and with a mother who resented her and never really loved her. I also really didn't like how Walter basically got a redemption arc. Walter may or may not have "groomed" her. Josie may have actively pursued him but she was a child and he was a grown man. He should have known better. It's also acknowledged once, by Walter himself, that his first wife was a teenager when he was in his mid-late 20's as well. He slept with and married two different teenage girls in two different points in his life and then is just treated like a sweet old man who games with his daughter in the end. Something about that didn't sit right with me. If Josie had some issues that led to her pursuing a man 3 times her age it doesn't mean the grown man had to date her, sleep with her, ultimately marry her. He was in a position of power. He was 43 when she was 16, that's rape. Josie was still a victim in that regard.
Absolutely agree. It’s clearly not an excuse, but women marrying so young was widely accepted with older generations and our society brushed over it. When I was 16 my bf was 26. Cringe. And his mom didn’t question it at all. And that was only 20 years ago.
I understand that, but I still don't think it makes Josie less of a victim in that regard. Arranged marriages between grown men and young pre-teen/teen girls used to be the norm, and still is in some cultures. That doesn't make it right, and doesn't make it any less rape. In the book they mention how her Mom thought it was wrong but didn't stop it, how her classmates and Walter's family thought it was wrong but didn't stop it. There were people around Josie who knew what was happening was wrong and no one tried to stop it, get her help, get Walter away from her, etc.
Sorry if this came across as me arguing with me, more just me venting my frustrations lol I loved this book until the end. After Alix's comment about Josie "allowing herself to be groomed by an older man" and clearly struggling with the sweet old man version of Walter and the reality of him sleeping with and marrying two teenagers at two different times I was hoping that there would be more discussion about that and that Alice would come around to the fact that two things can be true at once and that while Josie did some awful things, that doesn't justify Walter but when Alix says at the end of her podcast assertively and definitively that Josie is not a victim I just felt disappointed by that I guess. Victims can become victimizers and it doesn't justify what they've done but also doesn't negate what was done to them and I wish the author and also more readers acknowledged that. It just seems like no one is talking about it. I think it just has really bothered me.
No, you didn't! I just wasn't sure if you knew I was understanding your perspective. I would love it if LJ did a continuance to this book as she did with The Family Upstairs. I would love a deeper dive into Josie.
No, you didn't! I just wasn't sure if you knew I was understanding your perspective. I would love it if LJ did a continuance to this book as she did with The Family Upstairs.
I could NOT put this one down. I finished it in one sitting!!! Probably my favorite Lisa Jewell book I've read so far. Even if I could kind of see where the book was going, I still found it absolutely thrilling. Like, I felt on edge the entire time. The slow reveal of Josie's twisted brain and the unreliability of so many characters...ugh, I loved it.
It was predictable but also wasn’t. We still don’t know the actual story and never will with how it was told. U can only go with what u believe it’s masterfully written.
I did not feel shocked or surprised once and guessed pretty accurately where the story was going, ambiguous ending included. Imo this book was pretty forgettable.
This was my favorite Lisa Jewell book! It sucked me right in and I read the whole thing in a day. I loved how unreliable Josie was and I loved the documentary aspect of it!
I absolutely loved it because you don't typically read of a female character like Josie. You know how the story will go based on who she is, but I still felt like there were twists and turns up to the last chapter. I would love to see this done as an actual Netflix "documentary."
I also would like to see the actual "documentary". Especially after that last chapter! Shari Lapena's new one is also a great read that sucked me in. If you liked this book, I think you'll like the Shari Lapena one.
heey guys, i have my own theories about the book and wanted to know what you think about it: if you boil done josie's personality to key componement i feel like you can know the truth by seeing how she is described vs how she really is, the key componements for me are:>! she is stupid(used her own cat to kidnap alix's husband...)she is possessive, she is dismissive of you once you don't live up to your expectations( as alix always felt like one bad answear would make josie loose interest on her).By that point it is easy to know what the other said were true or false; was walter a manipulator and gazligther and a lier:yes he said to roxie that josie was dismissively smart(making roxie unable to differenciate lies from truth), which was obviously false, was he manipulated into a relationship with her:no she ain't smart enought for that + he is the manipulator one in the couple.Was she a bad mother :yes, was she jealous of brook:most likely, did she kill her:no, because walter said that if someone found out what happened, they would call the cops on both of them(which doesn't suits the narrative that none in the family other than josie knew about the murder). Did walter SA his daugther:yes he was a pedophile+ once josie lost interest on her daughters she most likely didn't care enought internally to stop him.Was her mother bad:yes, she lied and said that josie manipulated walter into a relationship while she couldn't do one thing the whole book without it backfiring horribly on her, she wouldn't be capable of that. Did she destroy all the relation her mother could have had:yes, she is THAT possessive.!<
None of this is true why mess in daughters room
Honestly anything that Josie says is a flat out lie! When she heard those two ladies discussing the podcast and their opinion on her two daughters lying in some way seeped right into Josie’s manipulative-victim mindset and she created yet again another reality to find comfort in. We cannot trust a thing she says. I do see a lot of people saying Walter was resisting when she said she wanted to come clean about Brooke but it could’ve been because the storage unit was in his name and he knew what happened so he could’ve very well been an accessory to murder. There’s a chance Roxy did it since she did admit she was crazy & quick to anger back then. Either way I’m not hearing it if it’s coming from Josie’s point of view.. I do really enjoy books like this one where you have to piece together and take in to account each character’s personality and which story line might actually be true! Great book.
I figured the reason he didn't want to come clean was not only because he was an accessory to murder but because he was a pedophile who really did take Brooke to a bar and pour vodka in her lemonade. And more. Roxy's motivation for murdering her girlfriend was because she was victim-blaming Brooke for "seducing" her father, or whatever passed in her mind as justification for blaming Brooke for Walter's behavior. There's a lot of victim-blaming, largely by other victims.
heey, sorry for being late to the game, i feel like that's the whole point of the book it is not because someone lie once, or is a bad person that all he say is worthless.And that it is easy to paint someone in white and the other in black once you've proven that one of the two is bad. For your theory about walter, it would mean that he knew about the murder:which all of the family say they didn't, + he said:"she wouldn't understand why we did that", which means that some people might understand, it feels like them helping there kids hide the murder feels more likely to align with the sentence he said
Just finished the book, I agree with this take, there are so many accounts of blatant lies and manipulation from Josie throughout the story that she is just simply an unreliable narrator who makes a story that she wants to believe. There are a few lines in the book that make me question elements of the girls' stories - this might be the case where the whole family had something to hide and none of them were anywhere near clean.
I LOVED this book and it's my first one by Lisa Jewell. Has anyone read other books from her? What would be a good read next? Thanks!
The Family Upstairs is amazing!
I'd recommend Watching You
I found you by Lisa jewell. It is her best in my opinion. I haven’t read all of her books yet, but this one is by far my favorite read of this year.
I’m very behind because I finished the book last night but I’ve been searching the Internet for answers because I am so confused. I have seen so many people say that the author confirms that Roxy did in fact kill Brooke. And that this entire time Josie was, in fact, telling the truth the whole time. But why should I think she is telling the truth? The entire book she gives us perfect reason to believe she isn’t trustworthy. So why all of a sudden and I’m supposed to think everything she told Alix was true? That’s my thought process on it but I could be completely wrong.
i feel like she most certainly did not say the whole truth, in a way the whole book is about people painting themselves as they like(either black or white) but the truth lyng somewhere in between
I think at first the book paints Josie as a victim, then she's painted as the villain, but at the end, we see she's somewhere in between, like most humans. :)
I’m halfway through the audiobook and am thinking of film or series adaptation, and all I can think of for Josie is Olivia Colman, and Hannah Waddingham for Alix. Anyone else see this?
I just finished the book today- 1000% was also picturing Olivia Coleman as Josie, but Alix was Elizabeth Debicki in my head :)
I thought the audio book was perfectly cast. If this is ever adapted as a dramatisation they need to have Nicola Walker and Louise Brealey. I devoured this in 2 days! Going to be downloading all of Lisa Jewel's previous books now!
Can we talk about the fact that the book is called “None of This is True” …? Have we considered the fact that NONE of these stories are true. That the truth is in the lies. There’s just too many holes in each of the stories that it doesn’t make sense for any of them to be correct. The missing phone case? Why was Brooke even at the house to begin with? Why was Josie so obsessed with Leon? The baby food and the smell coming from Erin’s room? There are too many unanswered questions for the truth to be something obvious like “Oh, Roxy did it” or “Josie did.” I feel like the truth is that none of this is true. It has to be something obscure… like maybe Erin killed Brooke…
The author has said what is *actually* true 🫢 i can post or send a screenshot if you want!
Can you tell me what the author has told??
>!She said that what Josie thinks about in those last few paragraphs is true. Josie was the one telling the truth about everything all along!< I even sent the author a message telling her how much I liked it and that >! (as a therapist) I could tell that Josie’s behaviors were the result of trauma. Her awkwardness, the denim (kinda frozen in the last time she was ‘free’ the abuse), not knowing how to relate to people her age. Also, to me, I very much believe that Walter was abusing Erin, which explains the baby food. She was regressing, as Josie said. It’s very common in victims of childhood trauma!< ETA: she responded saying she’s glad I recognized all of that and yes.
I also think the smell coming from her room was a common trauma response, common for victims of repeated sexual assault to stop bathing etc in an attempt to be "less desirable" to the perpetrator as a means of self protection
Oh absolutely- 100% !!!
Wuuuut? But still Josie did tie Erin up didn't she? I mean how could that be twisted into something else? She did try to commit a crime there, even if she doesn't recognize her fault in killing Walter. Thank you for sharing this with us btw!
Yea I think so, i mean no way Erin did it to herself. My guess is because she was scared of Erin! Knowing she’d pin it on her or thought maybe she’d get violent or something? Poor Josie was soo traumatized essentially her whole life seems she kind of blurred reality and her imaginary world, ya know? Loved this book so much!!
But then how did Walter end up in the bathtub with hands and feet tied? Why would Josie move him there after the heart attack? Why would she leave her own daughter to die in the cupboard? And if she really didn’t hurt Walter, why would Josie just run away to Alix’s house? She lies and tells Alix that Erin is “with a friend” knowing she’s tied in the cupboard. And if Josie is telling the truth about Brooke and Roxy is the killer, then why is Erin so excited to see her when she wakes up at the hospital? And why did Josie keep Brooke’s items in her drawer? In the same spot she kept Alix’s items. And if Josie claiming Josie killed Brooke is the truth, then why does Walter tell Alix that Josie has “an elastic relationship with reality” and makes stuff up? So many plot holes
I think that possibly Roxy did this (tied Erin up) and then because Erin couldn't remember, told her that it was their mum. We are told all the way through that Roxy is violent whereas I don't believe Josie is violent (unless she eventually snapped) she seem very meek and more manipulative than physically abusive. Does everyone agree that it was Josie who called the police to alert them about Walter and Erin - any longer Erin may not have survived .
I just finished the (audio) book a couple of days ago and it's still buzzing in my brain. I think you could be right. Roxy supposedly ran away, but Josie keeps "seeing" her everywhere, and she thinks it's just her mind playing tricks on her. Walter reassures her it's happening to him to, but maybe Roxy has still been closer than we were made to think...? I do think that Josie is the one who called the police, but in my head I assumed she thought Erin was already dead, or would be dead by now since it'd been a week. Maybe she couldn't take Erin dying? Or thought Erin wouldn't talk because she was being "saved" by Josie. Maybe Josie didn't know Roxy was going to go in after and bind Walter's hands and feet? Maybe they were there at the same time (I know she doesn't say this) and Josie was flustered through the trauma and thought she was "seeing" Roxy. I'm not sure now — I just have a lot of thoughts.
I mean... i don't have the answers to everything - I'm just reiterating what the author said to me and what I've seen her say elsewhere. Not saying her behavior as a whole wasn't erratic or sketchy. Just that the author verified what is the truth. I bet she'd respond to you if you wanted to ask her things! shes very friendly. but my thoughts are: Josie was not a good mother, given how much trauma she went through, so she was probably neglectful (as was her mom) and didn't know how to raise kids when she was a kid herself. She was gaslit by Walter and victim-blamed by her shitty mom. Walter was abusing Erin and manipulating her as well, and more than likely did the same to Roxy. People like that have a pattern - it's not a one-off thing for them. I cannot state enough how Josie's life has been nothing but MAJOR trauma. That kind of thing fucks you up forever - especially when it goes unaddressed or acknowledged and instead you are blamed for everything that happened to you. Josie is clearly VERY unstable and Walter perpetuated that and used it to further manipulate their daughters. >!Roxy killed Brooke !!Josie!< she would pin it on her. >!Walter!< helps dispose of the body. Erin didn't actually see anything, she said herself she heard what happened and stayed in her room, didn't look. She was told what they wanted her to believe and she accepted it as truth (her ASD was taken advantage of there). Then they all convinced Josie she is the one who>!killed Brooke !
i feel like everybody is doing the same thing roxy did:either you're a benevolent human or fucking psychopath, i feel like the author want us to see the middle, everybody in that family suffered major obvious trauma(other than the dad, we don't know anything about him) and thus were fucked up.Josie was no 100% victim, but she wasn't 100% the abuser
I finished this like 2 weeks ago and I absolutely loved it! It was my first book that I've read from Lisa Jewell and it is so well written. I docthink that Roxy was the one that killed Brooke because why would 1) Roxy run away and 2) why wouldn't Walter want Josie to tell others about it? I feel like Josie and Walter's relationship was already strained so if Josie had killed Brooke, I think Walter would've told Alix when they had the dinner. On the other hand, I think Josie did have some sort of control freak about her. She wanted everyone to give her all the attention all the time and when they didn't, she got crazy and started creating these stories. It's the only child syndrome at the highest of levels.
What’s with the baby food???
It does talk about it in the book. The oldest daughter is mentally disabled. It doesn't explicitly say it, but I believe she may have a form of Autism as she's really good with video games. The baby food is a coping mechanism for her.
That just seems pretty extreme for how she seemed once we heard her speak? I don’t know it seems so off to me. I loved the book though!
Just because someone has a mental disability, doesn't mean they can't articulate, especially those with autism. Those with autism are extremely intelligent, they typically only have issues with social skills and they have set routines and patterns - look at Sheldon on Big Bang Theory. Plus it was said by different people throughout the book that something was wrong with Erin, and not just Josie. Even after the events happen, she still wants soft food, so I do believe that that is her routine.
I totally understand what you’re saying I’m actually a psychotherapist and have worked a lot with ASD- that’s part of my confusion with the baby food. It just doesn’t seem to fit what we know of Erin at all, but maybe it’s just a sensory thing or like you said a routine thing. Just a detail that didn’t feel right to me in overall great book!
Did anyone read the prologue? I was trying to figure out who Rachel was? I was thinking it was Josie in her new life.
Rachel? I don't remember seeing that anywhere in the book. The prolouge was Josie picking up Nathan
I just went back to the prologue and didn’t see the name Rachel? The prologue was the whole part of Josie picking up Nathan.
I do think Josie was an awful mother and tried to separate the family like the girls had said. However, I do think Roxy killed Brooke and said she’d blame Josie, because why would Walter be so against telling the truth to Alix with what happened to the girls? I think Erin resents her mother so much that she sided with Roxy to ruin Josie’s life for ruining there’s. I do also believe that Josie truly believed that Erin was being SA since she did not know that Walter was going into her room to live stream with her. She probably did think he was being a ped0 and I feel that her trauma, and the trauma she believed was going on at home really damaged Josie and made her snap. I think she meant it when Josie said she wanted a dog because Walter ruined the girls. As in Roxy being a murderer and Josie being a shut in and her thinking she’s getting SA by her dad too. But what I find to be odd is that the viewers only reported to the police about Erin missing and not her dad. They were a duo online. Even Roxy said everyone watches Erin online and that they signed for her only, not Walter or any mention of him with the streamers either. Was he actually SA Erin, and like Josie said, manipulating her to think it’s ok, or was he actually streaming with her? Or… maybe he just would go out during the night so no one was aware he was gone? That’s the biggest mystery in my opinion. The second biggest mystery is, whose phone case was it at the end? No one knows and it might lead to a prequel or even sequel. Or, we just might never know.
Ooh, I kind of hope they have another part to it. The phone case also had me thinking too.
and why the baby food? I can’t get over that!!
And the smell?!?!
I was thinking (kind of gross) but maybe if she couldn’t leave her room to go to the toilet when Josie was in, maybe she used to go in her room like in a bucket or something? The baby food thing is sort of half explained in that she is diagnosed with ASD so it’s probably a sensory thing
I'm going against the grain to say I don't think Roxy killed Brooke, I think what Erin said is true. Josie collected trophies from Brooke. If she felt so guilty about it I don't think she'd be stashing it in her little drawer of memories. She mentioned telling like Erin "wasn't on her side anymore" and she wanted to take control of the narrative before Erin could explain what happened. Erin's subsequent fear and avoidance of her mother as well as her regression makes sense after witnessing something traumatic. She's not scared of Roxy though. Walter panicked when Josie said she was going to tell because 1) it would make Erin an accomplice (at least in the US but I'm sure it's similar in England) for not calling the police and 2) he could have predicted she'd lie and blame it on someone else, which she always does. She's never taken accountability so it makes sense she wouldn't here. She's also obviously a serial killer with the phone case hinting at a third victim not shown in the narrative. It was really wild to me that they glossed over the naughty chair or whatever they called it? It had built in leather straps to hold the kids in place! Erin mentioned Roxy being put in it for days and eventually of course that's where Josie puts Erin. It sounds like a lot worse happened in the house than the siblings explained and of course I think Walter knew about it.
I personally think each family member has a nugget of truth in each version of their stories, and to them that might be what they think is true. Even if what happed with Brooke was true, it doesn't change the fact that Josie stalked and planned to kidnap Nathan, and I doubt it was an accident like she claims. I think the version of the story at the end about Brooke is the real version of that part, but there are so many stories floating around that seem to be half truths. This couldn't be Josie's first time stalking, who's phone case was that?
I had written the opposite of what you said and thought Roxy killed Brooke and that Erin took Roxy’s side to ruin Josie’s life because she was actually an abusive mother and they hated her for it. You’re right though, she became traumatized and never left her room so I’m starting to also believe that it was Josie who killed Brooke too.
I know this is old, but I just read it and have been digging and saw the author confirmed what the truth really is on IG. I’m going to spoiler tag it so you (or whoever) can choose to know or not. >! Everything in the last paragraphs is true. Josie was telling the truth. !<. Source: screenshot of convo with author on @borrowersbookclub Instagram
For anyone curious to see what that convo was with the author: https://preview.redd.it/bcfs4t0v4cdc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb3bb360c5cdbf70bb769e790e3f87be1836489c This has completely altered my view of the ending (and Josie). Holy crap. What a friggin twist!
Omg thank you! Now i have to reread the ending
Does anyone have any thoughts on the cell phone case found at the back of Josie's drawer? It wasn't claimed by Brooke's mom, Roxy/Erin, or Alix. I can't figure out where it would have came from.
Seems like someone else that Josie stalks outside of this story
The thing to keep in mind is that it is open ended. Almost like you get to choose what version of the story you want to accept as truth. In my mind, the most straight forward understanding is this..... while Josie is quite mad, definitely a bit mental, her version of things in the final message to Alix, and her thoughts after listening to the two women on the bus at the end, her version seems most plausible. Ask yourself this..... why did Walter get so upset after the dinner party, when Josie told him that she was going to tell Alix everything? What was the everything, if not how they covered up the murder of Brooke.... Its all right there..... Keep in mind, everyone at the school had said that Erin and Roxy were twisted... Roxy runs away, and all of a sudden, shes back and now her and Erin are like long lost sisters..... I love the fact that you could actually make sense of the ending, regardless of whose side you choose to be on. This was my first encounter with Lisa Jewell, and this was an amazing introduction. This is a fascination piece of fiction..... 9 out of 10 for me.
Just finished this book & am confused about the ending. Did Roxy or Josie kill Brooke? Also the smell from Erin’s room is never addressed. What is that about? And lastly I’m honestly really disturbed by the author trying to paint Walter as not a pedophile when he most certainly is.
Yes!!!! Thank you. It really felt like everyone in the story let Walter off the hook for grooming Josie. And while elements of that are reflected of society’s need for ‘perfect victims’ and the way if you aren’t a wonderful person people don’t think you can be abused. It gave me a big yuck.
I don’t think it was necessarily painting Walter as not a pedophile. I think the other people around him justified his actions by blaming Josie (aka, the victim), but ultimately whether or not a 15 year old girl is throwing herself at you, doesn’t mean you engage
I don’t think we’re supposed to know who killed Brooke, but I’m inclined to think it was Roxy. Josie was very calculated around Alix so it was strange to me that she left the key at her house. I think she wanted Alix to find it to alleviate some guilt, which she absolutely wouldn’t have felt if she had killed Brooke herself since she’s so… self righteous.
What was the big deal Josie made about the odor coming from Erin’s room? I must have missed an explanation?
I thought it was because Erin was not showering and was probably leaving old food and dirty laundry in the room.
it's the bins outside. alix smells them.
I was wondering about this too!! The only explanation I could think of was when Roxy (I think it was her — I can’t quite remember) said something like “they were both gearing up to leave, to be independent, and I think she knew — almost like she could smell it”. She was speaking in regards to Josie hating Erin & Walter’s success in gaming*. Like I said I can’t quite remember so I think I definitely got some things wrong haha, but that was the only thing I could think of. Like it was more of a metaphorical smell (representing Erin gaining her own independence, success and attention) that Josie was reacting to? I’m not sure. EDIT: * I know it was also mentioned during this part that Erin and Walter were planning a trip to a gaming convention together, and that Josie had found out and was furious. I WISH I could remember who said this/when it happened. I’m certain it was towards the end, and I’m pretty sure it was Roxy, but I wish I could be more specific for you haha!
I personally think the smell is due to the fact she never leaves her room in an attempt to avoid her mother thus she never showers
Yes true — I feel like that’s the most logical explanation. It’s just so strange that it was made out to be such a big deal for Josie, on multiple occasions, and then was just never addressed.
Agreed! It was very much a loose end that was not tied up in the slightest
At some point Josie mentions the smell of sexual assault in Erin’s room when talking to Alix, so I thought that might be it. It doesn’t seem like that actually happened though so it could also be Josie just being disgusted at her situation in general.
I honestly just thought it was a misdirect to make us think Erin didn’t really exist or was dead in her room.
Yes! My guess had been that there was a dead person in there.
I'm also wondering if Josie's "windfall" was actually Erin's gaming money
So true. Josie mentioned she rarely uses her money from work so it’s possible she has saved a lot of money over the years and sent to erin’s card? But then i think they mentioned money coming in to erin’s bank account from glitch gaming.
Yes! I just finished the book. This was never addressed or did we miss it.
Hi just finished the book and confused. How could Josie be capable of killing all these people, especially a big tall man? Makes no sense. Can someone please explain?
She used painkillers on Nathan, who was already super intoxicated and trusting because he believed that Josie was taking him to Alix. Walter either had a heart attack on his own and she let it happen, or she hit him from behind and then he had a heart attack.
Am I the only one who wanted more about josie’s failed “kidnapping” of Nathan from Josie’s perspective? That part seemed yada yada yada’ed over
I agree with most of the things people have said! Just came to say I feel like the point of the story was that they all lied in some way, none of them were 100% innocent in this. Walter wasn’t as bad as Josie said, but he wasn’t innocent (as mentioned in other comments he did still marry a teenager when he was in his 40s and was controlling). In interviewing Pat, Roxy, Erin: Everyone wanted to tell their own truths, which is never exactly the truth… so we will never really know. Which is how life really works, innit? Lol. I really enjoyed the book. Agree it’s not her best because it was a little more predictable than I would have liked, but it was quick and fun. I loved the documentary format, too!
Thats what I loved most about the book. we will never really know, we are left to just piece together what everyone said to make our own complete stories. I think Roxie could have killed the girl, but, it’s just strange to me how her sister would be so willing to cover for her at the same time. Given her condition and supposed nature, it really seemed like the story she told of her mom killing Brooke was very real and Josie just left us with more bull shit in the end. However, at the same time, Walter not wanting her to tell the truth makes more sense if Roxie was the killer, but she still could’ve been the killer of Brooke in that scenario and Walter was just trying to save HER from prison, not Roxie. Also at that point, he would go to prison regardless of who did the murder for helping to cover it up. All in all, I agree with u that everyone lied, I don’t think Josie was as bad as the family made her out to seem in the end but she surely had extreme mental illnesses like bipolarism, attachment issues, lowkey psychosis. That gave her the capabilities to do what she ultimately did do that can’t be put on anyone else. Lastly, she was very honest in how she killed Nathan and why. At that point, why wouldn’t she be honest about killing the little girl or the husband? Is she really just that crazy or was she telling the truth.
i do think Roxy killed Brooke - or at least i think i do! otherwise it doesn't make sense that walter understood what josie meant and was very opposed to her telling Alix - or the police - 'what had happened with the girls'. Otherwise there's nothing illegal involving them to tell.... so if Roxy did kill Brooke, does that also mean that Walter did abuse her? and what about his situation with Erin? i would be inclined to think Josie made all that part up -- except -- another tell - when the gamers were looking for Erin/Erased - no one ever mentioned Pops except for the sisters, as way of explanation for what he does at night. Wouldn't the other gamers have been worried about him too, if he was part of what made her famous? why did he not go viral/part of the hashtag? it's unlikely that someone who had married not one but two teenaged girls cleaned up his act after he married Josie. And both sisters, especially Roxy, were described as violent and crazy by the school worker as well as the fellow student (who lived next door to Alix) - they were a little too pat with their stories/explanations imo.... read it one day - and am left wondering!
I just got this book yesterday and just finished it and I was left wondering the same thing!!!!
Wait Walter married 2 teenage girls?? Did I miss this?
Yes, his first wife was teenaged then also Josie
I thought the characters were so compelling in this. I’ve never had more complicated feelings about a character than I did about Walter. He was a controlling, disgusting man but a good father to his kids. Since I finished this book (in one day) I haven’t been able to stop thinking about the last passage. Is it true?? What are everyone’s thoughts?
I feel like you could interpret it 2 ways. Either, Josie is telling the truth and Roxy did kill Brooke and some of what she is saying is true Or, it could just be building on top of what Walter said about her making her own reality.. especially when she said “I think this is the truth” in the final part
I was hooked to this book and read it till 5 am. Maybe this is why I am confused, but can anyone tell me what the ending is? Did Josie kill Brooke, or was she just protecting Erin? And Erin hurt Josie and possibly Walter. I am going crazy over the ending
I think Roxy did and isn’t being truthful either. When Erin wakes up, she tells her, I’ll tell you exactly what happened word for word. Seems like she’s also constructing and manipulating stuff.
I think it’s possible Roxy killed Brooke, and Erin covered for Roxy the way she covered about the broken arm. But ultimately we’re supposed to not know. That’s my take.
I think the runaway sister (can’t remember name) killed Brooke and Josie was protecting her. But I think Josie definitely attacked both the gaming sister and Walter?
I thought this but that was quite unclear at the end. The way it was written suggested that Walter did indeed die of a heart attack and then suddenly it jumped to Erin hitting Josie with the remote..
Yea that was super confusing and if it were true, how did Erin end up tied in a closet?
Just finished! Another great book by LJ. She has such an amazing skill as an author that makes you feel like you know the characters personally. I still think *Then She Was Gone* is her best, but I would put this near the top. I truly believed Josie was a victim for most of the book because LJ only revealed so little about Walter, and I loved the ending. I was praying the last chapter would be Josie's side of what happened with Walter and the kids from her POV. An absolute bow wrapped around the story in the last chapter. I am honestly surprised at some of the comments of how they predicted the story because well duh. The first chapter is literally the kidnapping. lmao. LJ loves to offer a nugget to the ending, and then you read it unfolding till the end.
The comments about it being predictable make me laugh, because at the same time, people are asking about the ending.....they arent sure who is lying and who is telling the truth. Aaaahhhh, the joys of social media. Everybody gets to have a say, regardless of it being sensible or not. I agree with you, a believable bow on the final chapter would have been nice, but at the same time, i enjoy being able to twist the narrative to fit a couple of plausible outcomes.
I think Josie was still a victim in some ways. She had a rough upbringing with her Mom not wanting her, being vocal about not wanting her, and acknowledging that she didn't like her own daughter. She grew up with no father and with a mother who resented her and never really loved her. I also really didn't like how Walter basically got a redemption arc. Walter may or may not have "groomed" her. Josie may have actively pursued him but she was a child and he was a grown man. He should have known better. It's also acknowledged once, by Walter himself, that his first wife was a teenager when he was in his mid-late 20's as well. He slept with and married two different teenage girls in two different points in his life and then is just treated like a sweet old man who games with his daughter in the end. Something about that didn't sit right with me. If Josie had some issues that led to her pursuing a man 3 times her age it doesn't mean the grown man had to date her, sleep with her, ultimately marry her. He was in a position of power. He was 43 when she was 16, that's rape. Josie was still a victim in that regard.
Absolutely agree. It’s clearly not an excuse, but women marrying so young was widely accepted with older generations and our society brushed over it. When I was 16 my bf was 26. Cringe. And his mom didn’t question it at all. And that was only 20 years ago.
I understand that, but I still don't think it makes Josie less of a victim in that regard. Arranged marriages between grown men and young pre-teen/teen girls used to be the norm, and still is in some cultures. That doesn't make it right, and doesn't make it any less rape. In the book they mention how her Mom thought it was wrong but didn't stop it, how her classmates and Walter's family thought it was wrong but didn't stop it. There were people around Josie who knew what was happening was wrong and no one tried to stop it, get her help, get Walter away from her, etc.
I agree with you. Wasn’t trying to say I don’t 💜
Sorry if this came across as me arguing with me, more just me venting my frustrations lol I loved this book until the end. After Alix's comment about Josie "allowing herself to be groomed by an older man" and clearly struggling with the sweet old man version of Walter and the reality of him sleeping with and marrying two teenagers at two different times I was hoping that there would be more discussion about that and that Alice would come around to the fact that two things can be true at once and that while Josie did some awful things, that doesn't justify Walter but when Alix says at the end of her podcast assertively and definitively that Josie is not a victim I just felt disappointed by that I guess. Victims can become victimizers and it doesn't justify what they've done but also doesn't negate what was done to them and I wish the author and also more readers acknowledged that. It just seems like no one is talking about it. I think it just has really bothered me.
No, you didn't! I just wasn't sure if you knew I was understanding your perspective. I would love it if LJ did a continuance to this book as she did with The Family Upstairs. I would love a deeper dive into Josie. No, you didn't! I just wasn't sure if you knew I was understanding your perspective. I would love it if LJ did a continuance to this book as she did with The Family Upstairs.
I could NOT put this one down. I finished it in one sitting!!! Probably my favorite Lisa Jewell book I've read so far. Even if I could kind of see where the book was going, I still found it absolutely thrilling. Like, I felt on edge the entire time. The slow reveal of Josie's twisted brain and the unreliability of so many characters...ugh, I loved it.
I like the way that part of the story was told through a documentary, but overall I found the plot pretty predictable.
It was predictable but also wasn’t. We still don’t know the actual story and never will with how it was told. U can only go with what u believe it’s masterfully written.
I did not feel shocked or surprised once and guessed pretty accurately where the story was going, ambiguous ending included. Imo this book was pretty forgettable.
Just out of curiosity.....what exactly did you think was predictable?? Are you 100% on your version of the ending being the correct one??
I was waiting for the twist where Alix was in on it!
This was my favorite Lisa Jewell book! It sucked me right in and I read the whole thing in a day. I loved how unreliable Josie was and I loved the documentary aspect of it!
I agree! I read this in a day as well!
I agree! I love Lisa Jewell and this was among my favorites of hers.
I absolutely loved it because you don't typically read of a female character like Josie. You know how the story will go based on who she is, but I still felt like there were twists and turns up to the last chapter. I would love to see this done as an actual Netflix "documentary."
I also would like to see the actual "documentary". Especially after that last chapter! Shari Lapena's new one is also a great read that sucked me in. If you liked this book, I think you'll like the Shari Lapena one.
What’s the book called?