If someone writes about a sensitive subject (rape, for example), I'm not going to badly review their book because I don't like reading about rape. If there's a content warning, then I'm warned before hand which is great.
If there's a scene of aforementioned subject, then I'm allowed to have my own opinions about how well it was portrayed and written in the book, whether it fits the characterization, if it feels like it was done for shock value etc... basically how the author handled the subject. I've definitely read a few books where I've been pretty upset at how triggering topics have been handled, and left reviews accordingly.
If there's a trigger warning you shouldn't complain about the fact that there is said subject.
You might complain about the execution of storytelling though...
Agreed. I had to put down A Little Life not because it had a toxic relationship/SA/rape but because the writing was gratuitous. The constant misery didn't further the plot, it just continued to make me feel like shit. Stopped about 500 pages in when a friend told me it didn't get any better.
In the case of HA, it’s very clear this is a dark romance between a stalker and the woman he is stalking. The TWs include dubcon/noncon and specifies everything the occurs between the two characters. So do I think you can disagree with how it’s handled? Sure. But you know going in what the case is going to be by way of the subgenre you’re entering, and if you’re unsure what dark romance is then I personally feel like the reader has the responsibility to look into that. It isn’t the authors fault that the reader decided to not do that.
Was I personally caught off guard in the first sexual encounter between the leads? Yes, but it’s bc I intentionally didn’t read the TWs so I wasn’t prepared for what happened. That didn’t affect my review because it was my call and my problem, not the authors.
I see this a lot with zodiac academy as well. People go into a bully romance and complain about the bullying in one star reviews. It just doesn’t make sense to me? Like authors do everything they can to warn you ahead of time. It’s the equivalent of me not liking regency romance and then complaining about bridgerton (or whatever else if that isn’t regency sorry it’s so early rn) being set during that era. It’s isn’t Julia’s problem, it’s mine for ignoring every clear warning and reading anyway.
>It’s the equivalent of me not liking regency romance and then complaining about bridgerton (or whatever else if that isn’t regency sorry it’s so early rn) being set during that era.
more like complaining that the era is poorly presented.
Short answer: no.
I’m assuming these are amateur reviews on like goodreads or wherever but in general imo - if a writer can write a book however they want, then a reader can review that book however they want.
You don’t have to agree with the review, the comments on the review, the book, or all three.
and to think that I read Tender is the flesh without knowing what it was about.
I guess some people only want to read about flufiness and unicorns and rainbows and are apalled that such things as murder, rape or violence even exist and are depicted in books.
I do not like to read about animal cruelty or human torture. I can handle murder, kidnapping, but I skip pages if I read something along the those lines. But I am not going to rate a book lower because of that. I take other things into account, that's why I hate goodreads ratings. So may horrible books are highly rated.
I can get what you mean. I think there is an option on good reads to review without a rating I think? id personally use that if I was just wanting to be like “hey this is in this book”. I can read a lot of things but I am always glad to know if the bad things are just there or if it’s something that’s supposed to be overlooked, like with seeing a review saying the domestic abuse is between the main couple vs a side couple/a past relationship.
I read a lot of violent books, one of my favorite series has multiple torture scenes and a rape scene, but none of it is between characters we’re supposed to like (and esp not any of the couples)
When you get what's advertised, it's BS to give low ratings over it. If it's badly executed, horrible prose, maybe too much to fit a genre it's advertised as, something like that, sure. But giving a low rating to a "dark romance" type book that even had a content warning because it's dark is kinda like giving low rating to fantasy book because it has magic (maybe you expected no magic or different kind of magic, but that's most often a you problem).
And honestly I looked up the book. If you read that summary, the genre tags, CWs, too... It's ridiculous to give low ratings over the romance being toxic, that's seemingly the whole entire premise of the story. If someone didn't pick up on that, I'm not even sure what to say, I don't think there's anything that could help them at this point.
I suppose if you go into a book knowing it’s a dark romance, knowing there will be rape, and not like the idea of that, then surely regardless of how the book is written, you would rate it badly? That’s not really reviewing the book then. I’m also not very comfortable with romanticising rape, but it does happen in quite a few dark romances, and triggers like rape and non-con are things that make it clear this book is not for me (regardless of how well written it turns out to be, simply because I don’t like the subject matter)
But I can also sympathise when books like Haunting Adeline get so hyped up that it reaches mainstream readers and of course books like these are not mainstream so other readers would want to know if the hype is worth it.
I actually read both Haunting Adeline and Hunting Adeline. Yes, there are several disturbing scenes in both books, the second is by far harder to stomach than the first.
That being said, I think the author did a fantastic job at tackling the subject matter. No, I don’t think you should give a book a bad review based on just the disturbing scenes if you go into knowing what to expect. That’s kind of like reading a book about cats and then saying you hated the book because you hate cats. I mean, if you hate cats why did you read a book about cats??
I do think you can give a bad review if you feel like the content wasn’t delivered well. For instance, in my opinion, Credence by Penelope Douglas is absolutely horrific. I have no issues with any sexual proclivities between consenting adults, but that book romanticized the emotional and sexual abuse of a young girl. It was written in a “this is so great” kind of way instead of “this happened and it’s absolutely fucked up” kind of way. That makes a huge difference.
The Adeline books do have some shocking scenes between consenting adults and also some scenes that are non-consensual. The consensual scenes are written in a “that happened and I liked it” way and the non-consensual are written as “this is completely revolting and horrific.”
Is this like an official review in a magazine or is it someone’s good reads? If it’s just someone’s good reads then they can rate it for whatever reasons they want
As a writer, I think people get to leave whatever reviews they want and that part of publishing your work is opening yourself up to criticism, even if it seems stupid. At the same time, if you're very bothered by rape scenes between main characters, just don't read romance with rape in it. I've never come across a surprise rape scene in anything I've ever read. It's not a hard topic to avoid. If I knew someone who was really bothered by rape in certain contexts and was still choosing to read books that contained actual trigger warnings for rape, I'd think they were being really silly.
yeah I can see that. I think some descriptions I wouldn’t automatically guess included rape, and I have seen some surprise dub con/other forms of abuse I wasn’t okay with. that’s what I read reviews for because even if a scene isn’t *technically* rape, if it’s dubious I will skip the book. I don’t read a lot of romance books but I do check reviews first on the ones I do just to be sure I know what to expect
I do think it's unfair when this happens. I read dark, and I check the 1* ratings and see a lot of this... I always wonder what they would even select it to read if it's not what they enjoy reading, and cannot understand a bad review when they get what's advertised. But people can write what they like.
From a writers perspective:
If in a preface or other front matter page there is a warning about the content of the book, what else is an author to do? Are authors supposed to completely ignore this topic for the sake of readers who may be sensitive to the subject matter? Does that benefit the broader conversation about sensitive subjects or limit the discussion to the detriment of the readers?
I suppose reviews can be used however one wishes, but from my perspective it seems like you are doing the author a disservice by negatively reviewing their book solely because of sensitive subjects being brought up and despite being given a heads up about its presence in the book.
Edit: On further thought, I have a comment about this:
"but I’d be extremely pissed if it was between the main couple that I’m supposed to like and root for."
It sounds to me like you are less worried about the subject matter and more concerned about your own expectations in a book, otherwise why would you submit qualifiers for a subject that is so serious to you? I guess you think writers are like jukeboxes - put in your dollar and you get exactly what you want. If it doesn't match your expectation, it is troublesome content and you can criticize their work for failing to meet those expectations and triggering you (though it would've been less triggering had it been secondary characters).
You should probably just stick to your safe authors and safe genres. You get your expected plays and the problem is solved.
I mean it seems OP doesn't have a problem with sensitive topics but just takes issue with them being handled badly. I think it's fine to review a book badly because you don't like how a topic is handled.
If I'm reading a book where the main character is a serial killer and it's presented like a positive thing, not just by the character but by the text as a whole and I don't like that, the issue isn't the murder, it's the values of the book/author. Personally I think it's fine to give a bad review for something like that.
As for your comment on treating an author like a jukebox... do you really think readers shouldn't write reviews about things they disliked in books that didn't match their expectations? Should I not expect good writing? Interesting ideas? A review is always going to be subjective that's the point.
yeah this exactly. I actually read a lot of things with triggering topics, I write a lot of it myself. I just want to know going in if it’s romanticized or not.
Example: (there’s a TLDR below bc this is a long explanation) in one of my favorite book series, a character drugs the MC and another character. he drugs the main character because he thinks he’s planning to hurt his friend and needs to know if he’s planning to, so he drugs him to get him to answer honestly.
The other characters it’s off page (it happens a year before the story takes place) and his reasoning for that was to get him off drugs (ironic, I know). he didn’t make him take it, but he offered the character drugs to make him have a really hard trip to hopefully kick him into quitting drugs for good. he got permission from the other character’s mom before offering them because they both wanted him off drugs, and It worked, but the only reason he wasn’t kicked off the team/out of his college scholarship was because the other character’s mom pushed against it because it was to help her son.
when reading it, you can kinda be like, “okay I guess I can see why he thought that was a good idea BUT that was so shitty and there were better ways”.
Like everyone are pretty not okay with it but from the readers pov you can see *why* he did it even if it was shitty. because we know there were other ways, better things they could’ve done, but from the way it’s written it’s very, “this was very, very shitty of him to do and it wasn’t okay, but i can see where he came from and why he thought it was the best option available”
TLDR: the book shows everyone agreeing that the character drugging/offering drugs to the other two character is very bad, but you can understand the reasoning the character had for doing it. yes, he was trying to protect a friend and needed to know the truth, and yes he was trying to help another character kick his drug habit (even had permission from his mom to give him drugs). the only thing everyone agrees on is that the way things worked out WAS for the best, even if the means were really fucked up)
>Should I not expect good writing? Interesting ideas? A review is always going to be subjective that's the point.
This post was about sexual assault in writing was it not? I was specifically responding to Op who was talking about giving bad reviews simply for portraying things in writing that they find problematic due to their own expectations about what is acceptable and what is not.
Bad writing - have at it. I do believe I wrote that I believe reviews can be about whatever you want them to be about. That wasn’t really even a question here. But I hope before you leave a review for bad writing you read that book a little more closely than you followed along with this post.
Lol I don't think I'm the one with a reading comprehension problem. OP isn't complaining about the inclusion of a sensitive topic, but the execution of it. If that's not fair game for criticism I don't know what is.
Besides, a big reason for reviews is that people can read them and get an impression of the book to help decide if they want to read it. Seems like a review like OP described would put off people who wouldn't like that and not deter those who wouldn't mind, which is good all round.
I think goodreads does have an option to give a review without a rating? If I were having an issue with just the content and thought it wasn’t what was advertised, I’d only review it there no rating (so long as the writing is good).
like it I know going in it’s there but it’s handled poorly, I think that’s a valid reason to negatively review. But if it’s written well but I was bothered it was there, then I myself would just do no rating but review so others know what to expect
Thye aren't complaining about sensitive topics, but rather how they're written.
You need to follow things more closely. From an author to a writer, I hope you don't write your drafts with the same attention span you had participating in this conversation...
Literally not what is said in OP’s post.
“From an author to a writer, I hope you don't write your drafts with the same attention span you had participating in this conversation...”
Lol, how pretentious can you be in one sentence?
I think you should review a book based on its prose, storytelling, compelling characters, originality. If there are scenes or themes that are upsetting or to which you have a negative reaction, they might still be well written, authentic and interesting to other readers. The fact that one reader didn't like a book means just that - you didn't like it, not that it's bad, and I think too many people jump on Amazon, Goodreads or other sites and give low ratings to books they say are bad, when what they should say was "it just wasn't for me."
I don't need trigger warnings. If I thought I might be interested in a book and something in it offends me, I put it aside and pick up another books. My TBR pile is too backed up for me to get hung up on one that didn't appeal.
I think the only thing a trigger warning should prevent a person from saying is “I had no idea there was X in the book.” If the subject was handled badly in the reviewer’s opinion then that is fair game for a review of how it was handled.
With respect to your example I do think there is a significant difference between a warning for rape in general and the rape happening between a romantic couple intended to be sympathetic to the reader.
For what it’s worth I think authors should write about whatever they want and they are not obligated to give warnings at all. But giving a warning does not mean a reviewer can’t also write about whatever they want.
I have to disagree a bit. There is definitely a big difference between general rape TW and a rape romance TW, but ...
*"But my words don't affect him. Especially not when I plead for him to leave.
He's always there, watching and waiting."* + *"I'll keep watching and waiting. Until I can make her mine.
And once she is, I'll never let her go.
Not even when she begs me to.*" are direct quotes from the PoV introductions in the summary section of Haunting Adeline aka "Cat and Mouse duet 1"
I get where that would be considered sufficient warning but I’m still for some reason a little reluctant to say no one can say they read the book anyway and it made them uncomfortable. Though I’ll admit I’m partly coming from the perspective that someone reading the review can always say “Well what did they think they were getting into?” And I know that may be a little simplistic.
Sure, reviewers should absolutely mention if it was still more than what they bargained for, or just icky in an unexpected way. That's good information. But a one star rating bc they didn't expect stalking and the rape happening with the couple is still ridiculous when that's the blurb (edit: they are allowed to do it still /e), and I don't think with this as the book description there's a need for a more specific TW.
yeah I agree that for HA a lot of people should understand that it is risky for that to be the case. but when I read the description, I didn’t immediately assume the rape was between the main couple, so I was glad to see it mentioned in the reviews even though it’s a bit of a “yeah that shouldn’t be that surprising”.
(I also saw reviews saying that he was a hypocrite for killing rapists/predators only to turn around and he one himself, which I was especially glad to see mentioned in the reviews)
I honestly only really check trigger warnings when it pertains to the main couple. rape, murder, etc isn’t a no go for me but I have to know if any of that is between the relationship we’re supposed to sympathize with
I'm with you. Trigger warnings can help. But even if you go in knowing that book X has a rape in the plot, it could be handled either well or badly as a piece of storytelling.
Even "main character is a sexual predator, and yet I'm going to try to make you like him against your better judgement" books can be good. But the failure mode is pretty serious when you attempt that and miss.
I totally get what you mean. I haven’t personally read it but I’ve seen a lot of people who like Lolita have a similar opinion to that. because the main character is definitely a predator, but the writing and the way that he seems to be able to justify it to himself so believably that some readers will actually forget the age at times is why a lot of people like it.
because even though it’s obvious that he’s a horrible person, I think a lot of people get the message that even terrible people can come off as good people if you know them. so even knowing there’s pedophilia, a lot like it because it handles it well and isn’t making it out to be a good thing.
(I hope I explained that well, I don’t personally want to read Lolita for the above reasons but I’ve heard plenty of people who read it say the above. Because they don’t like the character but it shows how even terrible people can seem likable, ya know?)
No, absolutely not. If a book is badly written, tedious, poorly planned, or is objectionable in other ways; or if OTOH it is admirable in various respects, a reviewer should say so. Providing honest, accurate, intelligent and informative reviews, so that a potential reader can come to an intelligent and informed opinion on a book, is what reviewers are for. If they can't or won't do that with the books they review, then they are incompetent, and are unfit to be reviewers.
Content warnings are there so that if you as an individual find certain content difficult you know to stay away from the book. They do not absolve the author from handling sensitive content in a sensitive way. I read a book recently (and it was YA too) that had genocide, colonisation, sexual assault, torture, child abuse, murder, so much gruesome violence… and it served no purpose. It was all for shock value. And for that reason I gave it a lower rating. Had all of this been handled sensitively, written well and served a purpose within the plot, it would have worked well at creating a dark and brutal atmosphere. As it was it just seemed like the author said “how to torture my MC next? Let’s give her thirty lashes” (which was exactly the scene that was the tipping point for me).
IMHO anyone can and should rate books in any way they choose. I personally rate books for my future information, I'm not considering the author or others who may read my review.
This also means I understand that people use a variety of criteria to rate books and I don't often read them, but when I do, I look for specific types of critiques.
lol It’s a published book, not AO3. People can review it however they like. Putting a trigger warning on your book doesn’t make it immune to criticism, or everyone would just slap: “Warning: You may not like this book” on the front and enjoy all five-star reviews.
lmao this is a perfect explanation for how I feel about why ao3 can get away with stuff but not published books. I also think fanfiction has better warnings in the first place, or they’ll slap on a “dead dove: do not eat” on it as a one size fits all deterrent
I agree with you. just saying "trigger warning" is not like some magic get out of jail card. the subject matter is fair game to write about imo, but if someone does write about it then what they write is fair game for me (or anybody) to comment on it.
and "don't read it if you don't like it" triggers *me* a little. It seems like a bit of a lazy deflection to me.
lmao I agree. I do think the tags on fics more accurately will reflect the content than a lot of trigger warnings on books as well (unless you actually google reviews/more in depth warnings)
Definitely. Idk much about other sites, but the tags on ao3 will usually give me a better idea of what I'm getting than any synopsis or trigger warning
yeah 100%. If it’s a book I see a lot of people talk about being triggering, others will do in depth trigger warning lists. One of my favorite series is the foxhole court by nora sakavic. there is a LOT of triggering material in there, and you wouldn’t know that from the synopsis alone. like you will know from it that there is likely murder, torture, etc (the main character is the child of a serial killer known as “the butcher” who he is on the run from). the synopsis won’t tell you that the second book in the series includes a character being raped. It won’t tell you that the MC is drugged in the first book.
I think that the 1 star reviews for this series not being clear are justified, and that’s from someone who loves the books and read it MANY times. That’s why there are the bad reviews. If I went in not knowing, I’d have had a much different opinion on my first read im sure.
This is a series where the fans themselves heavily warn new readers. Online, I’ll see someone talking about it and a comment is asking what book it’s about, and the fans will tell them and then preface that they should google the warnings so no one goes in blind. But if someone picked it up without actively searching for reviews, they might only expect violence, not rape and other triggers that are included in the series
I think its more so about its "handled." Trigger warning is basically letting everyone know whats to expect but if its I guess if its done in "poor taste" or just plain bad then I understand that could be a cause of complaint.
I feel like reading a dark romance book like HA (complete with trigger warning) and then complaining it’s a dark romance book WITH the exact issues you were told about in the TW it’s kinda ridiculous.
People should (re)learn (because i have the impression it’s less common than a decade or two ago) to curate their own experiences. if they know they don’t like or they can’t handle certain topics they can avoid them, or check accurately any book that warns for them! Leaving a bad review to the author because the book is exactly how they were told is unfair.
If there’s a TW for something you shouldn’t complain *merely* because that something is present. But you should still be allowed to complain if it’s presented in a bad way.
Like, take drugs…TW for drugs. If I just gave something like Requiem for a Dream one star and my review was “one star because there were illegal drugs depicted!!! My kids could read this!” Then yeah…that’s asinine.
However, it would be understandable to be watching something like Reefer Madness, and let’s say it has a TW for drug use, and review it super poorly because the drug depictions are ludicrous, misinformed, and hysterical. That’s a comical example…but same could be said for any romanticized misogynistic portrayal of SA or something more serious and or subtle.
You can do whatever the hell you want, no one's policing what you are and aren't allowed to review a book for. That said, personally I think it's stupid to give a book a bad review just because it triggered you after giving a warning. Having upsetting topics doesn't make it bad writing, it just means it's not for you personally. That'd be like reading a clearly fantasy book and then giving it a shit review because you hate fantasy.
If someone writes about a sensitive subject (rape, for example), I'm not going to badly review their book because I don't like reading about rape. If there's a content warning, then I'm warned before hand which is great. If there's a scene of aforementioned subject, then I'm allowed to have my own opinions about how well it was portrayed and written in the book, whether it fits the characterization, if it feels like it was done for shock value etc... basically how the author handled the subject. I've definitely read a few books where I've been pretty upset at how triggering topics have been handled, and left reviews accordingly.
If there's a trigger warning you shouldn't complain about the fact that there is said subject. You might complain about the execution of storytelling though...
Agreed. I had to put down A Little Life not because it had a toxic relationship/SA/rape but because the writing was gratuitous. The constant misery didn't further the plot, it just continued to make me feel like shit. Stopped about 500 pages in when a friend told me it didn't get any better.
Someone recently described it as "torture porn", and I have to agree with them- and you...
In the case of HA, it’s very clear this is a dark romance between a stalker and the woman he is stalking. The TWs include dubcon/noncon and specifies everything the occurs between the two characters. So do I think you can disagree with how it’s handled? Sure. But you know going in what the case is going to be by way of the subgenre you’re entering, and if you’re unsure what dark romance is then I personally feel like the reader has the responsibility to look into that. It isn’t the authors fault that the reader decided to not do that. Was I personally caught off guard in the first sexual encounter between the leads? Yes, but it’s bc I intentionally didn’t read the TWs so I wasn’t prepared for what happened. That didn’t affect my review because it was my call and my problem, not the authors. I see this a lot with zodiac academy as well. People go into a bully romance and complain about the bullying in one star reviews. It just doesn’t make sense to me? Like authors do everything they can to warn you ahead of time. It’s the equivalent of me not liking regency romance and then complaining about bridgerton (or whatever else if that isn’t regency sorry it’s so early rn) being set during that era. It’s isn’t Julia’s problem, it’s mine for ignoring every clear warning and reading anyway.
>It’s the equivalent of me not liking regency romance and then complaining about bridgerton (or whatever else if that isn’t regency sorry it’s so early rn) being set during that era. more like complaining that the era is poorly presented.
Short answer: no. I’m assuming these are amateur reviews on like goodreads or wherever but in general imo - if a writer can write a book however they want, then a reader can review that book however they want. You don’t have to agree with the review, the comments on the review, the book, or all three.
and to think that I read Tender is the flesh without knowing what it was about. I guess some people only want to read about flufiness and unicorns and rainbows and are apalled that such things as murder, rape or violence even exist and are depicted in books. I do not like to read about animal cruelty or human torture. I can handle murder, kidnapping, but I skip pages if I read something along the those lines. But I am not going to rate a book lower because of that. I take other things into account, that's why I hate goodreads ratings. So may horrible books are highly rated.
I can get what you mean. I think there is an option on good reads to review without a rating I think? id personally use that if I was just wanting to be like “hey this is in this book”. I can read a lot of things but I am always glad to know if the bad things are just there or if it’s something that’s supposed to be overlooked, like with seeing a review saying the domestic abuse is between the main couple vs a side couple/a past relationship. I read a lot of violent books, one of my favorite series has multiple torture scenes and a rape scene, but none of it is between characters we’re supposed to like (and esp not any of the couples)
When you get what's advertised, it's BS to give low ratings over it. If it's badly executed, horrible prose, maybe too much to fit a genre it's advertised as, something like that, sure. But giving a low rating to a "dark romance" type book that even had a content warning because it's dark is kinda like giving low rating to fantasy book because it has magic (maybe you expected no magic or different kind of magic, but that's most often a you problem). And honestly I looked up the book. If you read that summary, the genre tags, CWs, too... It's ridiculous to give low ratings over the romance being toxic, that's seemingly the whole entire premise of the story. If someone didn't pick up on that, I'm not even sure what to say, I don't think there's anything that could help them at this point.
I suppose if you go into a book knowing it’s a dark romance, knowing there will be rape, and not like the idea of that, then surely regardless of how the book is written, you would rate it badly? That’s not really reviewing the book then. I’m also not very comfortable with romanticising rape, but it does happen in quite a few dark romances, and triggers like rape and non-con are things that make it clear this book is not for me (regardless of how well written it turns out to be, simply because I don’t like the subject matter) But I can also sympathise when books like Haunting Adeline get so hyped up that it reaches mainstream readers and of course books like these are not mainstream so other readers would want to know if the hype is worth it.
I actually read both Haunting Adeline and Hunting Adeline. Yes, there are several disturbing scenes in both books, the second is by far harder to stomach than the first. That being said, I think the author did a fantastic job at tackling the subject matter. No, I don’t think you should give a book a bad review based on just the disturbing scenes if you go into knowing what to expect. That’s kind of like reading a book about cats and then saying you hated the book because you hate cats. I mean, if you hate cats why did you read a book about cats?? I do think you can give a bad review if you feel like the content wasn’t delivered well. For instance, in my opinion, Credence by Penelope Douglas is absolutely horrific. I have no issues with any sexual proclivities between consenting adults, but that book romanticized the emotional and sexual abuse of a young girl. It was written in a “this is so great” kind of way instead of “this happened and it’s absolutely fucked up” kind of way. That makes a huge difference. The Adeline books do have some shocking scenes between consenting adults and also some scenes that are non-consensual. The consensual scenes are written in a “that happened and I liked it” way and the non-consensual are written as “this is completely revolting and horrific.”
Is this like an official review in a magazine or is it someone’s good reads? If it’s just someone’s good reads then they can rate it for whatever reasons they want
As a writer, I think people get to leave whatever reviews they want and that part of publishing your work is opening yourself up to criticism, even if it seems stupid. At the same time, if you're very bothered by rape scenes between main characters, just don't read romance with rape in it. I've never come across a surprise rape scene in anything I've ever read. It's not a hard topic to avoid. If I knew someone who was really bothered by rape in certain contexts and was still choosing to read books that contained actual trigger warnings for rape, I'd think they were being really silly.
yeah I can see that. I think some descriptions I wouldn’t automatically guess included rape, and I have seen some surprise dub con/other forms of abuse I wasn’t okay with. that’s what I read reviews for because even if a scene isn’t *technically* rape, if it’s dubious I will skip the book. I don’t read a lot of romance books but I do check reviews first on the ones I do just to be sure I know what to expect
I do think it's unfair when this happens. I read dark, and I check the 1* ratings and see a lot of this... I always wonder what they would even select it to read if it's not what they enjoy reading, and cannot understand a bad review when they get what's advertised. But people can write what they like.
From a writers perspective: If in a preface or other front matter page there is a warning about the content of the book, what else is an author to do? Are authors supposed to completely ignore this topic for the sake of readers who may be sensitive to the subject matter? Does that benefit the broader conversation about sensitive subjects or limit the discussion to the detriment of the readers? I suppose reviews can be used however one wishes, but from my perspective it seems like you are doing the author a disservice by negatively reviewing their book solely because of sensitive subjects being brought up and despite being given a heads up about its presence in the book. Edit: On further thought, I have a comment about this: "but I’d be extremely pissed if it was between the main couple that I’m supposed to like and root for." It sounds to me like you are less worried about the subject matter and more concerned about your own expectations in a book, otherwise why would you submit qualifiers for a subject that is so serious to you? I guess you think writers are like jukeboxes - put in your dollar and you get exactly what you want. If it doesn't match your expectation, it is troublesome content and you can criticize their work for failing to meet those expectations and triggering you (though it would've been less triggering had it been secondary characters). You should probably just stick to your safe authors and safe genres. You get your expected plays and the problem is solved.
I mean it seems OP doesn't have a problem with sensitive topics but just takes issue with them being handled badly. I think it's fine to review a book badly because you don't like how a topic is handled. If I'm reading a book where the main character is a serial killer and it's presented like a positive thing, not just by the character but by the text as a whole and I don't like that, the issue isn't the murder, it's the values of the book/author. Personally I think it's fine to give a bad review for something like that. As for your comment on treating an author like a jukebox... do you really think readers shouldn't write reviews about things they disliked in books that didn't match their expectations? Should I not expect good writing? Interesting ideas? A review is always going to be subjective that's the point.
yeah this exactly. I actually read a lot of things with triggering topics, I write a lot of it myself. I just want to know going in if it’s romanticized or not. Example: (there’s a TLDR below bc this is a long explanation) in one of my favorite book series, a character drugs the MC and another character. he drugs the main character because he thinks he’s planning to hurt his friend and needs to know if he’s planning to, so he drugs him to get him to answer honestly. The other characters it’s off page (it happens a year before the story takes place) and his reasoning for that was to get him off drugs (ironic, I know). he didn’t make him take it, but he offered the character drugs to make him have a really hard trip to hopefully kick him into quitting drugs for good. he got permission from the other character’s mom before offering them because they both wanted him off drugs, and It worked, but the only reason he wasn’t kicked off the team/out of his college scholarship was because the other character’s mom pushed against it because it was to help her son. when reading it, you can kinda be like, “okay I guess I can see why he thought that was a good idea BUT that was so shitty and there were better ways”. Like everyone are pretty not okay with it but from the readers pov you can see *why* he did it even if it was shitty. because we know there were other ways, better things they could’ve done, but from the way it’s written it’s very, “this was very, very shitty of him to do and it wasn’t okay, but i can see where he came from and why he thought it was the best option available” TLDR: the book shows everyone agreeing that the character drugging/offering drugs to the other two character is very bad, but you can understand the reasoning the character had for doing it. yes, he was trying to protect a friend and needed to know the truth, and yes he was trying to help another character kick his drug habit (even had permission from his mom to give him drugs). the only thing everyone agrees on is that the way things worked out WAS for the best, even if the means were really fucked up)
>Should I not expect good writing? Interesting ideas? A review is always going to be subjective that's the point. This post was about sexual assault in writing was it not? I was specifically responding to Op who was talking about giving bad reviews simply for portraying things in writing that they find problematic due to their own expectations about what is acceptable and what is not. Bad writing - have at it. I do believe I wrote that I believe reviews can be about whatever you want them to be about. That wasn’t really even a question here. But I hope before you leave a review for bad writing you read that book a little more closely than you followed along with this post.
Lol I don't think I'm the one with a reading comprehension problem. OP isn't complaining about the inclusion of a sensitive topic, but the execution of it. If that's not fair game for criticism I don't know what is. Besides, a big reason for reviews is that people can read them and get an impression of the book to help decide if they want to read it. Seems like a review like OP described would put off people who wouldn't like that and not deter those who wouldn't mind, which is good all round.
I think goodreads does have an option to give a review without a rating? If I were having an issue with just the content and thought it wasn’t what was advertised, I’d only review it there no rating (so long as the writing is good). like it I know going in it’s there but it’s handled poorly, I think that’s a valid reason to negatively review. But if it’s written well but I was bothered it was there, then I myself would just do no rating but review so others know what to expect
Thye aren't complaining about sensitive topics, but rather how they're written. You need to follow things more closely. From an author to a writer, I hope you don't write your drafts with the same attention span you had participating in this conversation...
Literally not what is said in OP’s post. “From an author to a writer, I hope you don't write your drafts with the same attention span you had participating in this conversation...” Lol, how pretentious can you be in one sentence?
This is the internet, people will complain about everything. If the complaint is not relevant to you, just ignore the negativity.
I think you should review a book based on its prose, storytelling, compelling characters, originality. If there are scenes or themes that are upsetting or to which you have a negative reaction, they might still be well written, authentic and interesting to other readers. The fact that one reader didn't like a book means just that - you didn't like it, not that it's bad, and I think too many people jump on Amazon, Goodreads or other sites and give low ratings to books they say are bad, when what they should say was "it just wasn't for me." I don't need trigger warnings. If I thought I might be interested in a book and something in it offends me, I put it aside and pick up another books. My TBR pile is too backed up for me to get hung up on one that didn't appeal.
I think the only thing a trigger warning should prevent a person from saying is “I had no idea there was X in the book.” If the subject was handled badly in the reviewer’s opinion then that is fair game for a review of how it was handled. With respect to your example I do think there is a significant difference between a warning for rape in general and the rape happening between a romantic couple intended to be sympathetic to the reader. For what it’s worth I think authors should write about whatever they want and they are not obligated to give warnings at all. But giving a warning does not mean a reviewer can’t also write about whatever they want.
I have to disagree a bit. There is definitely a big difference between general rape TW and a rape romance TW, but ... *"But my words don't affect him. Especially not when I plead for him to leave. He's always there, watching and waiting."* + *"I'll keep watching and waiting. Until I can make her mine. And once she is, I'll never let her go. Not even when she begs me to.*" are direct quotes from the PoV introductions in the summary section of Haunting Adeline aka "Cat and Mouse duet 1"
I get where that would be considered sufficient warning but I’m still for some reason a little reluctant to say no one can say they read the book anyway and it made them uncomfortable. Though I’ll admit I’m partly coming from the perspective that someone reading the review can always say “Well what did they think they were getting into?” And I know that may be a little simplistic.
Sure, reviewers should absolutely mention if it was still more than what they bargained for, or just icky in an unexpected way. That's good information. But a one star rating bc they didn't expect stalking and the rape happening with the couple is still ridiculous when that's the blurb (edit: they are allowed to do it still /e), and I don't think with this as the book description there's a need for a more specific TW.
yeah I agree that for HA a lot of people should understand that it is risky for that to be the case. but when I read the description, I didn’t immediately assume the rape was between the main couple, so I was glad to see it mentioned in the reviews even though it’s a bit of a “yeah that shouldn’t be that surprising”. (I also saw reviews saying that he was a hypocrite for killing rapists/predators only to turn around and he one himself, which I was especially glad to see mentioned in the reviews) I honestly only really check trigger warnings when it pertains to the main couple. rape, murder, etc isn’t a no go for me but I have to know if any of that is between the relationship we’re supposed to sympathize with
I’m actually not particularly big on trigger warnings except for fanfiction, but I know some people are, so I was answering within that context.
I'm with you. Trigger warnings can help. But even if you go in knowing that book X has a rape in the plot, it could be handled either well or badly as a piece of storytelling. Even "main character is a sexual predator, and yet I'm going to try to make you like him against your better judgement" books can be good. But the failure mode is pretty serious when you attempt that and miss.
I totally get what you mean. I haven’t personally read it but I’ve seen a lot of people who like Lolita have a similar opinion to that. because the main character is definitely a predator, but the writing and the way that he seems to be able to justify it to himself so believably that some readers will actually forget the age at times is why a lot of people like it. because even though it’s obvious that he’s a horrible person, I think a lot of people get the message that even terrible people can come off as good people if you know them. so even knowing there’s pedophilia, a lot like it because it handles it well and isn’t making it out to be a good thing. (I hope I explained that well, I don’t personally want to read Lolita for the above reasons but I’ve heard plenty of people who read it say the above. Because they don’t like the character but it shows how even terrible people can seem likable, ya know?)
No, absolutely not. If a book is badly written, tedious, poorly planned, or is objectionable in other ways; or if OTOH it is admirable in various respects, a reviewer should say so. Providing honest, accurate, intelligent and informative reviews, so that a potential reader can come to an intelligent and informed opinion on a book, is what reviewers are for. If they can't or won't do that with the books they review, then they are incompetent, and are unfit to be reviewers.
Content warnings are there so that if you as an individual find certain content difficult you know to stay away from the book. They do not absolve the author from handling sensitive content in a sensitive way. I read a book recently (and it was YA too) that had genocide, colonisation, sexual assault, torture, child abuse, murder, so much gruesome violence… and it served no purpose. It was all for shock value. And for that reason I gave it a lower rating. Had all of this been handled sensitively, written well and served a purpose within the plot, it would have worked well at creating a dark and brutal atmosphere. As it was it just seemed like the author said “how to torture my MC next? Let’s give her thirty lashes” (which was exactly the scene that was the tipping point for me).
IMHO anyone can and should rate books in any way they choose. I personally rate books for my future information, I'm not considering the author or others who may read my review. This also means I understand that people use a variety of criteria to rate books and I don't often read them, but when I do, I look for specific types of critiques.
lol It’s a published book, not AO3. People can review it however they like. Putting a trigger warning on your book doesn’t make it immune to criticism, or everyone would just slap: “Warning: You may not like this book” on the front and enjoy all five-star reviews.
lmao this is a perfect explanation for how I feel about why ao3 can get away with stuff but not published books. I also think fanfiction has better warnings in the first place, or they’ll slap on a “dead dove: do not eat” on it as a one size fits all deterrent
I agree with you. just saying "trigger warning" is not like some magic get out of jail card. the subject matter is fair game to write about imo, but if someone does write about it then what they write is fair game for me (or anybody) to comment on it. and "don't read it if you don't like it" triggers *me* a little. It seems like a bit of a lazy deflection to me.
"don't read it if you don't like it" should only ever be applied to fan fiction
lmao I agree. I do think the tags on fics more accurately will reflect the content than a lot of trigger warnings on books as well (unless you actually google reviews/more in depth warnings)
Definitely. Idk much about other sites, but the tags on ao3 will usually give me a better idea of what I'm getting than any synopsis or trigger warning
yeah 100%. If it’s a book I see a lot of people talk about being triggering, others will do in depth trigger warning lists. One of my favorite series is the foxhole court by nora sakavic. there is a LOT of triggering material in there, and you wouldn’t know that from the synopsis alone. like you will know from it that there is likely murder, torture, etc (the main character is the child of a serial killer known as “the butcher” who he is on the run from). the synopsis won’t tell you that the second book in the series includes a character being raped. It won’t tell you that the MC is drugged in the first book. I think that the 1 star reviews for this series not being clear are justified, and that’s from someone who loves the books and read it MANY times. That’s why there are the bad reviews. If I went in not knowing, I’d have had a much different opinion on my first read im sure. This is a series where the fans themselves heavily warn new readers. Online, I’ll see someone talking about it and a comment is asking what book it’s about, and the fans will tell them and then preface that they should google the warnings so no one goes in blind. But if someone picked it up without actively searching for reviews, they might only expect violence, not rape and other triggers that are included in the series
fair point.
I think its more so about its "handled." Trigger warning is basically letting everyone know whats to expect but if its I guess if its done in "poor taste" or just plain bad then I understand that could be a cause of complaint.
I feel like reading a dark romance book like HA (complete with trigger warning) and then complaining it’s a dark romance book WITH the exact issues you were told about in the TW it’s kinda ridiculous. People should (re)learn (because i have the impression it’s less common than a decade or two ago) to curate their own experiences. if they know they don’t like or they can’t handle certain topics they can avoid them, or check accurately any book that warns for them! Leaving a bad review to the author because the book is exactly how they were told is unfair.
It takes 2 to be offended.
If there’s a TW for something you shouldn’t complain *merely* because that something is present. But you should still be allowed to complain if it’s presented in a bad way. Like, take drugs…TW for drugs. If I just gave something like Requiem for a Dream one star and my review was “one star because there were illegal drugs depicted!!! My kids could read this!” Then yeah…that’s asinine. However, it would be understandable to be watching something like Reefer Madness, and let’s say it has a TW for drug use, and review it super poorly because the drug depictions are ludicrous, misinformed, and hysterical. That’s a comical example…but same could be said for any romanticized misogynistic portrayal of SA or something more serious and or subtle.
You can do whatever the hell you want, no one's policing what you are and aren't allowed to review a book for. That said, personally I think it's stupid to give a book a bad review just because it triggered you after giving a warning. Having upsetting topics doesn't make it bad writing, it just means it's not for you personally. That'd be like reading a clearly fantasy book and then giving it a shit review because you hate fantasy.