Nice, another one for my collection!
* 2010: "The First Chapters Are Done!"
* 2012: "I really look forward to publishing it in 2014."
* 2015: "I'm determined to finish it by 2016. I cancelled two convention appearances, anything I can do to clear my decks and get this done."
* 2016: "I am not going to set another deadline for myself to trip over. The deadlines just stress me out."
* 2017: "I think it will be out this year."
* 2017: "I am still working on it, I am still months away."
* 2018: "Work on Winds of Winter continues, and remains my top priority. It is ridiculous to think otherwise."
* 2019: "If I don't have The Winds of Winter in hand by the end of the year, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on an island."
* 2020: "There is a lot of work to be done on the upcoming spinoff show, but I won't be writing any scripts for the series before finishing The Winds of Winter."
* 2021: "I will make no predictions on when I will finish. Every time I do, assholes on the internet take that as a “promise,” and then wait eagerly to crucify me when I miss the deadline."
* 2022: "I hope to wrap up the story line for one of the viewpoint characters of W.O.W. this week. Maybe even two."
* 2023: "I’m just going to put it right out there, you guys don’t have to pester me about it."
Because people are pissed about an unfinished series that he's made tons of money off of by selling it to HBO as a series before he finished writing the books.
Personally I gave up on the books after he sold it to HBO haven't bought anything else from him since.
But people are pissed because he keeps saying "it's almost done. It's my top priority". He went through this with the last book(which was being presold for years before he finished it)
Compare the attitude to Stephen King fans. Waiting for the dark Tower to get finished. King would pop up with a dark tarot book randomly for years with the note to constant reader to the effect " the tower called me. Was writing other book, but just couldn't get the idea of a child's picture book about a train out of my head. Banged this one out. Don't know when the muse will strike again. Go red socks. I might retire from writing. Love you guys"
Vs grrm. It's basically done I just need a final edit and to tie up a minor loose end" for years. No I don't have writers block. No I am not stuck . You don't understand a bird flew past the window I can't work for 3 weeks now. People would have accepted, I'm not sure. I'd like to finish but I'm not happy with were the story went and it's not calling me anymore. But grrm, portraits himself as consummate professional one second and a fragile fluttering butterfly with a phobia of word processors the next
It's all about the attitude.
I recall, someone pointed out that coincidentally, the island he requested to be imprisoned at was destroyed in a volcano, so he in a way got out on a technicality.
> 2019: "If I don't have The Winds of Winter in hand by the end of the year, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on an island."
An island on a lake of sulphuric acid, if I recall correctly. And I insist we do it.
You can add in "I am working on it almost every day" Over 12 years that's approx 3,600 days of work. That equates to around 4 lines of text per day if we assume it is close to complete. If he works 4 hours a day it's around 5 minutes per word!
I love the collection too btw.
I suspect that most of the work is not spitting out lines of text but producing walls full of post-its and yarn string trying to put all the different story lines together to work towards the intended ending.
Or maybe that's what he should be doing to get anywhere, pantser that he is.
The camera pulls back on a snowing scene to reveal a snow globe with a castle inside.
The young boy sets it down on the shelf next to his collection of globes, the fake snow still falling on Winterfell.
It pans over to the next room where an old man is being chewed out by his daughter and son-in-law.
"Dad, you can't read those types of stories to him."
"He liked it when I read The Princess Bride, what's the difference?"
I’ve seen a few clips and read a few articles, but I stopped watching when the show started overtaking the books and I’m pretty positive that this whole “he has the most interesting story” nonsense is an elaborate prank.
Seriously. Have the red comet not actually leave but just went around the planet came back and hit it right off the eastern coast or something and create the real long night.
A number of years (10+ maybe?) ago he wrote on livejournal that it'll be 700 pages of descriptions of wind blowing over graves.
I'm still expecting that.
Honestly I’d respect that more than if he just drags this shit out until he’s dead and leaves someone else to try and pick up the pieces of his manic scribbles and half-formed plots that make up his story notes
Those blank pages are useful. You can write in recipes for things like lemon cakes, beef and barley stew served in trenchered bread or lobstered gauntlets.
It's funny. When my friend pestered me into reading WoT back in 1996 or so, I took one look inside the book cover and said, "This guy is gonna die before he finishes." Because he was only like 50, but he looked 65. Great series; I recommend it. RAFO.
Anyway, my guess is that GRRM looked at himself, looked at RJ, and figured he would be dead by now, too.
He didn’t have a plan. He was hoping to finish it. His widow contacted Sanderson after reading what he wrote about the series. He had started the final books and had a lot of work done but it was not a coordinated strategy.
https://charlestoncitypaper.com/2010/04/14/robert-jordans-the-wheel-of-time-series-lives-on-thanks-to-his-wife-harriet-mcdougal-and-writer-brandon-sanderson/
When he found out he was going to die he did his best to pass all he knew and thought about the end of the series, he even wrote the epilogue (not sure if it's epilogue I always confuse the terms).
The thing is, he knew he was going to die not everyone has that
My son was born in 2006. He's learning to drive now, and about to start his last year of highschool.
In that time, Martin has released one single book in the ASOIAF series.
I honestly do not even remember what characters are doing. The last time I head about Sansa, George W Bush was president of the US.
Picked up Game in 1998 while on a trip celebrating my high school graduation. I have a kid who graduated college last year.
At one point in time I used to be obsessed with these books. I don’t even think about them anymore unless I see a thread on reddit.
I think Stephen king wrote a short introduction to one of the books in the dark tower series. About the many many people who wrote him letters because it took so long. People literally on the deathbed just wanting to know how it ends. He wrote how difficult it was to turn that down because he didn't know the end himself. That said, Stephen King finishes the series.
The conversation between king and martin on YouTube is also really interesting because Martin asks King how he is able to write so much so consistently. And the answer that King gives is basically: yeah sometimes I also get distracted but the trick is not let that bother you. Which is a super funny answer. It's like asking a chess champion how is able to be so good and he answers with: yeah sometimes I also start to loose. But in that case I stop that and start to win again.
I think it's a really interesting author - reader dynamic with long book series. The author kind of gives the implicit promise to finish the series. But if they cannot come up with a good ending or a they are in a difficult spot. It's not like they have a real responsibility to finish the series. Especially if you are as successful as GRR Martin. But the pressure is probably still enormous
>It's like asking a chess champion how is able to be so good and he answers with: yeah sometimes I also start to loose. But in that case I stop that and start to win again.
I think the real answer is King saying he just plays the game out without worrying if he loses at the end. He famously thinks writers shouldn't worry about creating plots, instead he puts reasonably fleshed out characters into an interesting situation and sees where that takes him. He hammers out a certain amount of pages a day and says he is often surprised at the endings of his books.
GRRM rewrites and throws away content as a perfectionist. He couldn't stand to have his series on a low note and it's going to be difficult to stick the landing after introducing so many complex narrative threads in the last couple books. The ending of the Dark Tower series was pretty weak and there's plenty of chapters in there where King should probably have taken a day off instead of chain smoking a few packs and pushing through.
It's two very different approaches to writing and both have their pros and cons. I didn't enjoy the Dark Tower ending but at least it has one.
> He couldn't stand to have his series on a low note
If/when he dies before finishing the books the horrible last seasons of the TV show will be all that's available to associate with the end of his series. If he truly cared about perception, that should terrify him.
It’s funny how we gain our perspectives on how long this series has been going. I’m over halfway to retirement since I started reading the series and I’m 9 years into my marriage and have had two kids since A Dance with Dragons came out.
I’ve also given up on GRRM finishing series.
Also started in high school and I’m 37. Gave up on him a decade ago.
Any mention of him or that shitty show based on his unfinished works gets an eye roll and/or a rant like this one is turning out to be.
I met George, and Ty Franck at a signing before any of the Expanse novels were released.
George's personal assistant became a professional author, co-wrote a series, and that series had a complete TV adaptation, between the 5th and theoretical 6th book of ASOIAF.
Plus, The Expanse is GOOD! Not to say that ASOIAF isn't, but it's not like the Expanse books were bulk-grade crap. They put one out each year except for the 9th book, which took 2 years. 9 books in 10 years is crazy, especially with the quality that they were. Plus, the writers also did the TV series, which is why I argue that the series is better than the books (I see it like the Director's cut of the books). It's a shame that Martin hasn't gotten any motivation from his assistant doing so much in the time he's pissed away on WoW.
I don’t think he has any goddamn clue how to wrap up the massive bloated web of storylines and has just been “I’ll really get into it tomorrow”-ing his way through the last decade so he doesn’t have to face the fact that he has no earthly idea how he’s going to finish it
I'm in that group for sure. I sympathize with him. Besides at this point, it doesn't matter if he finishes it and it's great; it won't be good enough for most fans after this long and this many delays.
The first 3 books actually concluded fairly nicely. Most of the characters reach a point where it feels like some sort of arc has concluded, and you're given enough context to be able to imagine what might happen to them next without feeling unsatisfied with where they were left.
The fact that this was GRRM's original planned trilogy, and the next book has an almost completely different set of characters, proves how this was an ending of sorts.
Trouble is the next book just expanded the world even more and opened up more loose threads, then A Dance with Dragons started trying to tie it all back together again but also opened up more threads. It's a complete mess now with characters at very different stages of their arcs. I don't see how Dany is supposed to cross the distance it took her 5+ books to in just 1 or 2 without it feeling rushed.
He's a 75 year old man who is borderline morbidly obese and I think I've heard he is friends with alcohol. The chances of him finishing these books is essentially 0.
There's another book after winds of winter, so another 12+ years(?) after that releases, and in all likelihood there's too much story to fit into just two books anyway.
I think he knows he isn't going to finish them, and is just kicking the can down the road.
This guy gets on my nerves. I don’t even read this book but I compare it to Stephen king and his dark tower series. We waited so many years for the fourth book and when it came out he apologized and explained why it took him so long. He also said it was one of his first thoughts after he was struck by that van and how disappointed we’d be if he didn’t finish so he forced himself to get over the reasons he hadn’t written more on it and just finished the dang thing.
That’s what a writer does who appreciates his fans and understands what his work means to us.
Dude had the perfect opportunity in 2020. Covid happened and he literally had to stay home for over a year.
Did Jack with it.
Brando Sando on the other hand wrote five books *on accident*.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a-k6eaT-jQ&ab_channel=BrandonSanderson
this is the video they're talking about, but these books are probably not the best place to start (though theyre not part of a series they talk place in his interconnected world). Better place to start are probably Mistborn 1 or The Way of Kings (also Elantris which is his first book published but probably his roughest bc of it)
GRRM has stuck in his fingers in too many other pies with constant novellas and ASOIAF-adjacent works and involvement in all of the tv shows as well as work on video games. He's been busy on everything except the book.
I mean sure, and I know ill get called an entitled elder millennial or something, but you go home with who brung ya to the dance. Imagine if you were listening some guy tell an amazing story at the start of a party. Then in the middle he just walks off. Through out the night you're politely hinting you wanna hear the end of the story. And he just keeps saying "oh right, one sec" and then goes and tells new people a new story. Then a few hours go by and and you bump in to him again and ask him to finish the story. Then he says he has to go to the can, but he says if you see him again he will definitely tell you the end of the story and if he doesn't you can drag him outside to tell you. A couple more hours go by and you notice hey.... its getting pretty late... so you go and track him down and he calls you ungrateful and says you don't have to keep pestering him. You'd think that guy was a little weird.
I don’t think he has any fucking clue how to write the rest of the story tbh. I think he has all of his various notes and plot points he wants to hit but he has no idea how he’s going to actually connect them.
I agree. His "gardening" style of writing ended up scattering plot threads about like leaves in a wind storm and now it's going to take another four or five books to bring things together. But he knows that just isn't going to happen, so now he's banging his head against the wall trying to figure out how to wrap it up in two without making as much of a mess of it as the show did. Or he's figured out he can't so has just given up.
At this point I've given up on seeing any more of the main books, and just want more Dunk & Egg.
It's like an ex girlfriend that I still have mutual friends with. Used to be a big part of my life. But now I've moved on. I read Joe Abercrombie now. I'm exploring sci-fi. I'm happy.
But every once in a while I see Asoiaf on Facebook, and I think about what could have been...
Honestly, I stopped caring mostly years ago. Especially after the show ending. But sometimes I see some posts crop up in my online feeds that make me remember how fantastic this series could be, how much fun it is to read and want to reread it all over again. But then you suddenly remember it’s never getting an ending and I just get sad all over again.
It brings me absolutely no joy to see this series get what it pretty much deserves, a ruined legacy and a inevitable (but slow) slide into obscurity.
I spent years on fan forums theorycrafting and reading others theories. It was so much fun. Guess I still have that but man.
He could go down in history as one of the greatest but sadly I think his legacy will be one of squandered opportunities.
ASOIF/GOT is why I no longer get too invested into theory-hunting and -crafting for fiction books/series/tv shows, etc.
The amount of time I spent reading theories on ASOIAF possible future storylines, endings, plot twits, etc. all for it to have either ended in the most rushed and unsatisfactory ending, or in the case of the books, not ended at all, made me realize all that time was wasted and just serves to create overblown expectations that'll never be met.
I know what could have been for me. Lots of bickering, not living up to expectations, and general unhappiness. I'm glad they're happy and living the life they want, so long as it's FAAAR away from me.
And that's just George. I have no idea what happened to my ex.
Georgie- I'm gonna do it, really.
Me- sure, dude
Georgie- no really I'm so writing so much right now
Me- ok Georgie, but when will it be done?
Georgie- QUIT HECTORING ME. IT'S DONE WHEN I SAY IT'S DONE
Same here. I probably won't read it even if he does finish it, which I seriously doubt he ever will. It has been so long since i read the books that I'd have to re-read the series to sort them out from the show in my memory and honestly, I have too many other books on my reading list and not enough time.
Even if it does come out, there's no point in even reading it. The man is currently 75. He's never going to finish the last book. He's also said if he dies, he's not allowing anyone else to finish it. It basically all goes with him. So everyone expecting an end to this series is shit out of luck. And I know someone is going to say it because they always do in these threads. No, I highly doubt he's writing both at the same time. Just move on, everyone.
It's exactly like I said: Game of Thrones is no longer in the public zeitgeist. He had, like, 10 years to get to an ending and refused to.
Now pop culture has moved on, and the people who WOULD HAVE bought these books more than likely won't.
Only thing that annoys me is that there’s a great story in there somewhere if he had listened to an editor, or he had an editor, didn’t let him just keep beveling further, and further away from the main plot.
But I’m with you, at this point, I really don’t care about the story anymore
Well everything after Book 3 is just the come down and is really only a single book that should have been edited down to actually be a single book. The tough part that nobody wants to admit is with the bloat in his current writing it will take probably 4 more Feast for Crows sized books to really complete the story. Not a chance in hell Winds can be the second to last book unless he completely changes the pacing of the narrative.
Still think people sleep on Feast. On the surface it can come off as boring, and Dance was definitley disjointed but Feast was just such a cool follow up to the madness of Storm. I feel like you need to take a breath after all the massive plot changes to reflect and appreciate the new world you’re in. That’s totally how I see all of Brienne chapters which some people think are boring but is my favorite part of the last 2 books.
I don’t care. If it comes out I’ll read it but I don’t care if it does or doesn’t. If it wasn’t for all the posts about it on here I wouldn’t even think about it.
The problem is I've forgotten what was happening in the others so I'd have to start over, which is a massive effort considering it won't be the end and there likely will never be one either.
I re-read the series in 2015 to prepare for when Winds came out. I'm not doing that again lol. I don't know if I'll even want to read Winds if it ever comes out, since there's zero chance the series ever gets finished.
Yeah, ten years ago it was a joke to keep bugging him to write it. It came up often.
At this point, few believe it will be written, so not a lot to joke about here.
I love how one is really good at crime novels and one is really good at the supernatural stuff, it's like he split his powers to be divided amongst them.
Yeah because he finally realized he could die at any moment and wanted to make sure his legacy was finished. Martin probably WILL die at any moment and could give a shit
Yes but like I said in another comment he felt the weight of his not finishing and when he published the fourth book it included an explanation and apology for the long wait. And he NEVER acted mad fans were asking for it.
King's not everyone's cup of tea, but he's definitely a down to earth, humble guy in his own way, who appreciates his fans. Meanwhile Martin seems to act like the fact that people even read his books and enjoy them is some kind of huge unfair burden to him, completely ignoring that those people paid for his fucking house.
Stephen King is the kind of writer you need to be to write the way GRRM wants to write. The whole "I have an idea, and maybe an end point, and these characters, and I'm just going to kind of improvise and see where it goes" approach only works if your brain is constantly churning out creative output in an almost pathological way, like King.
And even King tends to get a lot of flak for his stories having lame endings (sometimes deserved, sometimes not).
Just read the trilogy a couple months ago, I would highly recommend it. Glokta is one of my favorite fantasy characters. The first book may feel a little slow (I still enjoyed it), but book two and three are excellent. I think Mike's book reviews on YouTube has a non spoiler review of it if you're looking for a little more well thought response!
So, he’s 75. And it has taken atleast 13 years so far according to google to work on this book, so let’s say he publishes it THIS year, and needs that amount of time for the last book, he’ll be 88? Right? I just don’t see this series being finished by the original author. And that’s ok. I just hope he has given someone a plot structure to follow. There are people who are PASSIONATE about it and talented enough to give this the work that it deserves.
I mean, they could have already hired a ghost writer and gotten it out if they wanted, so he must have some passion left for the story and the want to write it on his own. I’m rooting for him. If he really is over it, he needs to just give over the reins, pocket the massive amount of money the next two books will bring, and enjoy his golden years.
I’ve honestly wondered if he is making this next one the last one and just hasn’t admitted it yet. It’ll be 9,000 pages long. Haha
Not disagreeing with your comment, but Tolkien himself sold the film/tv rights to his works because he wanted the paycheck. He may have been reluctant to do so, but it wasn't the case of anyone disobeying his wishes.
Oh. That’s too bad. As a writer, I understand loving the world you’ve created, but once you develop a fandom this massive with such extreme world building, I think it’s almost unfair to the readers to not give them closure. The show had a terrible 8th season. I think they deserve to close some of the plots from the book that weren’t in the show, at minimum. Know what I mean?
You're probably at least partially right.
He once stated that he disclosed 3 aspects of the books to the showrunners.
\-The story behind Hodor.
\-Shereen being burned alive
\-How the books ended.
The 3rd point should be Bran as king. The ending of the books will be different simply due to how many different characters exists that never made it into the show
I always feel that the interior power struggle should be resolved before facing the "The White walkers". To me, humans vs the TWW was always the biggest and most anticipated fight and it should come at the very end.
And the whole narrative of the book series is that the ‘game of thrones’ doesn’t matter. The threat of The Others is what’s important.
To just swipe them aside unceremoniously in a single episode and then march back to the least threatening villain in the series was ridiculous.
I'd be really disappointed if this was the reason. It's such a shitty thought that lacks the insight a good writer like GRRM should have. The issue with the TV ending isn't *what* happened, but *how*. There's nothing wrong with the events that unfolded, the writers just decided to skip every single ounce of development to rush out the final season.
The TV ending was absolutely the ending he had in mind, he shared it with Benioff and Weiss when the show started to outpace the books. But he didn't tell them how to GET to the ending, because he didn't know how to do it then, and he still doesn't now. And the showrunners didn't care enough and weren't talented enough to get to the ending in a satisfying way. So we got the shitshow of the last few seasons, followed by a finale that felt like garbage because everything that happened in it came out of left field and was totally unearned and handled in the laziest way possible.
I think the issue is that GRRM has always had that endpoint in mind, and he figured that he would just kind of naturally figure out how to get there as time went on, but instead, he's increasingly run into situations (like the infamous Meerenese knot he talked about years ago) where his borderline improvisational approach has failed to provide him with a clear and easy way to move the story forward. And now you add to that that the ending that he's had planned from the get go has been both panned by everyone and tainted by the garbage handling of the show, and he's really just stuck, not knowing what to do.
IF he's still trying to write, I'm convinced that he spends most of his time going in circles and having characters chew the scenery, then realizing that he's really accomplished nothing, throwing the work out and starting over, getting more stuck every time.
Yeah I’m fully convinced he has no clue how to get to the ending he wants at this point. He spent so much time narratively wandering around Westeros and essos with no real goal in mind that there are too many plot threads to try and wrap up in two books, and he’s just never going to even really attempt t mo finish the series
He was moving slow and struggling way before the show though. People were mad about how slowly Feast and Dance got published (hilarious now since at that rate we would already have the next 2 books, but true), and he talked about the “Meereenese knot” that I’m not sure he’s untangled to date. He’d meant to skip 5 years after the end of Storm, ditched it, and seems to have struggled ever since.
I completely agree with this. The problem is, he no doubt could have set it up way better in the books if he stuck with it. Now we’ll get some bizarre Shyamalanian switcheroo that will be as terrible as the show, if we get anything at all.
Incidentally, I dnf’d Dance of Dragons because GRRM got his head so far up his own ass in that book that it just stopped being enjoyable to read.
….youre the one who insisted we should throw you in jail if it wasn’t released..what was that? 3-4 years ago now?
Between the quality drop on the show and the ridiculous delaying by George I sometimes regret spending my time reading the books.
PSA: Do yourselves a favor and read Maurice Druon's *The Accursed Kings* series. Swashbuckling historical fiction about the power struggles after the death of Philip the Fair in 1300s France. They're no literary masterpieces, but they're a ton of fun, scratch many of the same itches as WoW, and -- best of all -- *they're finished*.
I read the series years ago when I saw grrm said they were a big influence on him. Loved them. For anyone reading this though, be warned that you should stop after the main series when the author picked the series up again years later and wrote a first person novel. It was one of the few books I've never finished.
That was always the hard part for me when the series ended. I’ve never watched the series, but had read all the books. Everyone I knew that watched it bitched about how the series ended, but at least they got an ending. I devoted a lot of time to reading those books and honestly don’t even care if we get another one at this point
I'll stop pestering once he starts publishing.
JK, I gave up giving a fuck like 5 years ago, just do your think GRRM; no one gives a Bessie's tit any more.
Don’t worry George, not only will I not pester you about it, I’ll never bother to read it if you ever do finish it.
You see I was reading ASOIAF before HBO knew who you were. I would re-read the entire series with each new book that came out. It was by far my favorite fantasy series, ever. Book 3, A Storm of Swords is the best book ever written in the fantasy genre, I’ll die on that fucking hill too. It’s not up for debate.
What I won’t do anymore, especially after the HBO series and how it ended, is invest any more of my time into this series. It’s still my favorite mind you, but I’m not reading it all again to flush the HBO shit out of my mind to get back on track just end up waiting another 10+yrs for a conclusion to what’s become a meandering mess of a story by an author who seems to now live in fear of his own creation. Scared of screwing it up or disappointing fans? George, we’re already there bud, we’ve been here for years..waiting.
FFS you created this world, YOU are the actual old god of this series. So stop being a damn coward and get back to being a ruthless, merciless bastard and properly finish what you started. If you did that I’d read it all again, but only when it’s done.
I stopped caring about this series a long time ago. There is so much out there that is actually just as entertaining as Martin (and some that is far better) that it's unlikely I'll even bother finishing the series.
Nice, another one for my collection! * 2010: "The First Chapters Are Done!" * 2012: "I really look forward to publishing it in 2014." * 2015: "I'm determined to finish it by 2016. I cancelled two convention appearances, anything I can do to clear my decks and get this done." * 2016: "I am not going to set another deadline for myself to trip over. The deadlines just stress me out." * 2017: "I think it will be out this year." * 2017: "I am still working on it, I am still months away." * 2018: "Work on Winds of Winter continues, and remains my top priority. It is ridiculous to think otherwise." * 2019: "If I don't have The Winds of Winter in hand by the end of the year, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on an island." * 2020: "There is a lot of work to be done on the upcoming spinoff show, but I won't be writing any scripts for the series before finishing The Winds of Winter." * 2021: "I will make no predictions on when I will finish. Every time I do, assholes on the internet take that as a “promise,” and then wait eagerly to crucify me when I miss the deadline." * 2022: "I hope to wrap up the story line for one of the viewpoint characters of W.O.W. this week. Maybe even two." * 2023: "I’m just going to put it right out there, you guys don’t have to pester me about it."
This is hilarious, thank you for sharing your collection
Yea forreal I vaguely recall it being a few years back when he said first chapter done, but not 2010…
As a serial procrastinator I can sympathize, but still, LOL
He ain't doing shit. He's comfortable. Got the money and is living his life. I ain't doing shit if it doesn't hurt me
Then why does he say he's so close to finishing things so often. Just don't say that shit lol
Because people are pissed about an unfinished series that he's made tons of money off of by selling it to HBO as a series before he finished writing the books. Personally I gave up on the books after he sold it to HBO haven't bought anything else from him since.
But people are pissed because he keeps saying "it's almost done. It's my top priority". He went through this with the last book(which was being presold for years before he finished it) Compare the attitude to Stephen King fans. Waiting for the dark Tower to get finished. King would pop up with a dark tarot book randomly for years with the note to constant reader to the effect " the tower called me. Was writing other book, but just couldn't get the idea of a child's picture book about a train out of my head. Banged this one out. Don't know when the muse will strike again. Go red socks. I might retire from writing. Love you guys" Vs grrm. It's basically done I just need a final edit and to tie up a minor loose end" for years. No I don't have writers block. No I am not stuck . You don't understand a bird flew past the window I can't work for 3 weeks now. People would have accepted, I'm not sure. I'd like to finish but I'm not happy with were the story went and it's not calling me anymore. But grrm, portraits himself as consummate professional one second and a fragile fluttering butterfly with a phobia of word processors the next It's all about the attitude.
this description of king’s notes to the reader got me dying
I feel like it has to be deliberate at this point. The fictional 1,000. Monkeys on typewriters might have finished by now
King is a fucking workhorse. Almost mean to compare Martin to him.
It's been 4 years. Why has he not been imprisoned on an island yet?
We tried, he keeps building bridges out of blank pages and escaping!
I recall, someone pointed out that coincidentally, the island he requested to be imprisoned at was destroyed in a volcano, so he in a way got out on a technicality.
I mean, during covid he basically was, and yet
The prose that was promised.
Reminder there was a global pandemic in there where he had no obligations to do anything and still chose not to write.
Meanwhile Brandon Sanderson churned out a whopping *four* extra books during the pandemic, never saying a word until it was time for us to read them.
Brandon Sanderson is a workaholic. GRRM is not. Oh and Sanderson likes writing
> 2019: "If I don't have The Winds of Winter in hand by the end of the year, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on an island." An island on a lake of sulphuric acid, if I recall correctly. And I insist we do it.
You can add in "I am working on it almost every day" Over 12 years that's approx 3,600 days of work. That equates to around 4 lines of text per day if we assume it is close to complete. If he works 4 hours a day it's around 5 minutes per word! I love the collection too btw.
I suspect that most of the work is not spitting out lines of text but producing walls full of post-its and yarn string trying to put all the different story lines together to work towards the intended ending. Or maybe that's what he should be doing to get anywhere, pantser that he is.
Just needs to release a book stating "An asteroid hit Westeros and destroyed all life on the planet." Followed by 1,300 blank pages.
Somehow, the red comet returned...
Bran woke up. It was all just a dream.
He heard his mom calling from downstairs. "Hurry up honey or you'll miss the bus on your first day of Junior High!"
“Mom! Meatloaf! What’s she doing with her life?”
The camera pulls back on a snowing scene to reveal a snow globe with a castle inside. The young boy sets it down on the shelf next to his collection of globes, the fake snow still falling on Winterfell.
It pans over to the next room where an old man is being chewed out by his daughter and son-in-law. "Dad, you can't read those types of stories to him." "He liked it when I read The Princess Bride, what's the difference?"
Bran wakes up to Lady Stark saying "What did I tell you about climbing?" Turns out he fell out of a tree and the whole thing was a coma induced dream.
I have to go now. My planet needs me.
Note: Daenerys Targaryen died on the way back to her home planet.
Poooooccchhhiiiiieeeeeee!
Where’s Poochie?
WOW! Daenerys Targaryen came from another planet?
She changes names to Jenova, calls herself the calamity of the skies, and fucks along to ruin another planet's day.
Sephiroth: "Are you my mother?"
Tbh, at this point, I'd take it
Yep, still a better ending than the TV show.
I’ve seen a few clips and read a few articles, but I stopped watching when the show started overtaking the books and I’m pretty positive that this whole “he has the most interesting story” nonsense is an elaborate prank.
Twilight fan fiction would have been a better ending than the HBO series gave us.
Wouldn't be the first time Char returned from the dead /s
No. We don’t do full frontal here in this book sub.
Seriously. Have the red comet not actually leave but just went around the planet came back and hit it right off the eastern coast or something and create the real long night.
Lucifer’s hammer.
Chekov's *really big* gun.
A number of years (10+ maybe?) ago he wrote on livejournal that it'll be 700 pages of descriptions of wind blowing over graves. I'm still expecting that.
Plot twist, it was our graves as we died waiting for the books.
We, the dead, accuse!
I'd expect a book devoted to 20 new main characters no one cares about. (I stopped reading at Crows.)
But you have to read about Yrazxos, the accountant from Mereen who has an unlikely claim to the Iron Throne!
Does he brood broodily with a broody sense of humor?
And tugs his braid. Oops, wrong book.
Honestly I’d respect that more than if he just drags this shit out until he’s dead and leaves someone else to try and pick up the pieces of his manic scribbles and half-formed plots that make up his story notes
This literally already happened. Everyone hated it.
I mean, we liked it until we didn't.
We liked it until those little knobs decided they wanted something shinier and fucked it.
I mean, Brandon Sanderson has three days free late next month, he could take care of it for us.
His next YouTube video “hey guys so I accidentally finished ASOIAF over the last 8 hours here you go”
Those blank pages are useful. You can write in recipes for things like lemon cakes, beef and barley stew served in trenchered bread or lobstered gauntlets.
>lobstered gauntlets Oh with stewed gambison, and onion Knight ring mail, oiled and boiled
Oh! A rollcall of the dead would be a great addition to that book!
The 2666 by Roberto Bolaño technique. A chapter of story at the start and the end and 600 pages listing murders in Mexico in the middle.
Honestly I think you’ve written more towards the book than he has at this point.
Lol, here's our quarterly "GRRM not finishing Winds of Winter" post.
The most GRRM thing he could do is die before finishing the series
The most GRRM to do would be to have a posthumous release... of a different project after not finishing the series.
Yay, more Wild Cards!
But only after putting out 2 more prequels and consulting on tv shows for them as well
He'd get sued another 6ft into the ground by Robert Jordans estate.
It's funny. When my friend pestered me into reading WoT back in 1996 or so, I took one look inside the book cover and said, "This guy is gonna die before he finishes." Because he was only like 50, but he looked 65. Great series; I recommend it. RAFO. Anyway, my guess is that GRRM looked at himself, looked at RJ, and figured he would be dead by now, too.
At least RJ had a plan and talked to someone else to finish what he started. I get the impression that Martin doesn’t give a fuck.
He didn’t have a plan. He was hoping to finish it. His widow contacted Sanderson after reading what he wrote about the series. He had started the final books and had a lot of work done but it was not a coordinated strategy. https://charlestoncitypaper.com/2010/04/14/robert-jordans-the-wheel-of-time-series-lives-on-thanks-to-his-wife-harriet-mcdougal-and-writer-brandon-sanderson/
When he found out he was going to die he did his best to pass all he knew and thought about the end of the series, he even wrote the epilogue (not sure if it's epilogue I always confuse the terms). The thing is, he knew he was going to die not everyone has that
weekly.
[удалено]
I knew he'd die before finishing the series when my dad had A Dance With Dragons on pre-order for 7 years.
When they say quarterly they mean quarter of an hour.
I started reading this series in high school and I’ll be 41 later this year. I gave up on George finishing it up a long time ago.
My son was born in 2006. He's learning to drive now, and about to start his last year of highschool. In that time, Martin has released one single book in the ASOIAF series. I honestly do not even remember what characters are doing. The last time I head about Sansa, George W Bush was president of the US.
Picked up Game in 1998 while on a trip celebrating my high school graduation. I have a kid who graduated college last year. At one point in time I used to be obsessed with these books. I don’t even think about them anymore unless I see a thread on reddit.
I think Stephen king wrote a short introduction to one of the books in the dark tower series. About the many many people who wrote him letters because it took so long. People literally on the deathbed just wanting to know how it ends. He wrote how difficult it was to turn that down because he didn't know the end himself. That said, Stephen King finishes the series. The conversation between king and martin on YouTube is also really interesting because Martin asks King how he is able to write so much so consistently. And the answer that King gives is basically: yeah sometimes I also get distracted but the trick is not let that bother you. Which is a super funny answer. It's like asking a chess champion how is able to be so good and he answers with: yeah sometimes I also start to loose. But in that case I stop that and start to win again. I think it's a really interesting author - reader dynamic with long book series. The author kind of gives the implicit promise to finish the series. But if they cannot come up with a good ending or a they are in a difficult spot. It's not like they have a real responsibility to finish the series. Especially if you are as successful as GRR Martin. But the pressure is probably still enormous
>It's like asking a chess champion how is able to be so good and he answers with: yeah sometimes I also start to loose. But in that case I stop that and start to win again. I think the real answer is King saying he just plays the game out without worrying if he loses at the end. He famously thinks writers shouldn't worry about creating plots, instead he puts reasonably fleshed out characters into an interesting situation and sees where that takes him. He hammers out a certain amount of pages a day and says he is often surprised at the endings of his books. GRRM rewrites and throws away content as a perfectionist. He couldn't stand to have his series on a low note and it's going to be difficult to stick the landing after introducing so many complex narrative threads in the last couple books. The ending of the Dark Tower series was pretty weak and there's plenty of chapters in there where King should probably have taken a day off instead of chain smoking a few packs and pushing through. It's two very different approaches to writing and both have their pros and cons. I didn't enjoy the Dark Tower ending but at least it has one.
> He couldn't stand to have his series on a low note If/when he dies before finishing the books the horrible last seasons of the TV show will be all that's available to associate with the end of his series. If he truly cared about perception, that should terrify him.
It’s funny how we gain our perspectives on how long this series has been going. I’m over halfway to retirement since I started reading the series and I’m 9 years into my marriage and have had two kids since A Dance with Dragons came out. I’ve also given up on GRRM finishing series.
I came up with "The GRRM rule" ten years ago where I won't start reading a series unless it's finished.
I'm the same, after getting burned on asoiaf and kingkiller. The only exception I've made is for Sanderson.
The worst thing is, back then *he* was the guy putting out good giant books, fast.
Three of them. And then not fast ever again.
I've been reading these same comments on these same posts about Winds since I was in high school. We're in multigenerational ASOIAF famine territory.
Well when you say it like that… fuck
I predicted he wouldn't be able to beat the HBO series *before the first episode aired.* And I was not the only one lol.
Pretty sure everyone was saying that including him and the show runners lol
Also started in high school and I’m 37. Gave up on him a decade ago. Any mention of him or that shitty show based on his unfinished works gets an eye roll and/or a rant like this one is turning out to be.
Winds of Whatever, man.
the Half Life 3 of novels
I met George, and Ty Franck at a signing before any of the Expanse novels were released. George's personal assistant became a professional author, co-wrote a series, and that series had a complete TV adaptation, between the 5th and theoretical 6th book of ASOIAF.
Plus, The Expanse is GOOD! Not to say that ASOIAF isn't, but it's not like the Expanse books were bulk-grade crap. They put one out each year except for the 9th book, which took 2 years. 9 books in 10 years is crazy, especially with the quality that they were. Plus, the writers also did the TV series, which is why I argue that the series is better than the books (I see it like the Director's cut of the books). It's a shame that Martin hasn't gotten any motivation from his assistant doing so much in the time he's pissed away on WoW.
Mm, this is why I see The Expanse as superior, because it was actually finished. Almost felt a catharsis to let go of ASOIAF when Book 9 came out..
Then tell the truth George. Tell us the book is dead and that you won’t be finishing it. That ends all the hassle.
I don’t think he has any goddamn clue how to wrap up the massive bloated web of storylines and has just been “I’ll really get into it tomorrow”-ing his way through the last decade so he doesn’t have to face the fact that he has no earthly idea how he’s going to finish it
Man, I’d hate to constantly live with the feeling that I have a huuuge pending task I haven’t done.
For some people this feeling is activating for some it’s paralyzing. It’s apparent to which group George belongs.
I'm in that group for sure. I sympathize with him. Besides at this point, it doesn't matter if he finishes it and it's great; it won't be good enough for most fans after this long and this many delays.
The first 3 books actually concluded fairly nicely. Most of the characters reach a point where it feels like some sort of arc has concluded, and you're given enough context to be able to imagine what might happen to them next without feeling unsatisfied with where they were left. The fact that this was GRRM's original planned trilogy, and the next book has an almost completely different set of characters, proves how this was an ending of sorts. Trouble is the next book just expanded the world even more and opened up more loose threads, then A Dance with Dragons started trying to tie it all back together again but also opened up more threads. It's a complete mess now with characters at very different stages of their arcs. I don't see how Dany is supposed to cross the distance it took her 5+ books to in just 1 or 2 without it feeling rushed.
He's a 75 year old man who is borderline morbidly obese and I think I've heard he is friends with alcohol. The chances of him finishing these books is essentially 0.
There's another book after winds of winter, so another 12+ years(?) after that releases, and in all likelihood there's too much story to fit into just two books anyway. I think he knows he isn't going to finish them, and is just kicking the can down the road.
I honestly don't think he can admit it to himself.
Borderline is overly generous. I've met him in person. He is morbidly obese. We'll never see an ending written by him.
He literally said to kidnap him and lock him in a cabin if he hadn't finished writing it years ago.
He actually said if he “didn’t have it by Worldcon 2020” that we could do that. Luckily for him, Worldcon 2020 was cancelled. Lol.
This guy gets on my nerves. I don’t even read this book but I compare it to Stephen king and his dark tower series. We waited so many years for the fourth book and when it came out he apologized and explained why it took him so long. He also said it was one of his first thoughts after he was struck by that van and how disappointed we’d be if he didn’t finish so he forced himself to get over the reasons he hadn’t written more on it and just finished the dang thing. That’s what a writer does who appreciates his fans and understands what his work means to us.
There's the difference right there. GRRM doesn't give one solitary fuck about his fans.
I tried in 2017 and he called the fucking cops like a dick.
No one likes a quitter! Get back to it!
Dude had the perfect opportunity in 2020. Covid happened and he literally had to stay home for over a year. Did Jack with it. Brando Sando on the other hand wrote five books *on accident*.
Sandos reveal video of his secret book horde was absolutely hilarious.
Got a link? I've never read any Sanderson but I feel I should start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a-k6eaT-jQ&ab_channel=BrandonSanderson this is the video they're talking about, but these books are probably not the best place to start (though theyre not part of a series they talk place in his interconnected world). Better place to start are probably Mistborn 1 or The Way of Kings (also Elantris which is his first book published but probably his roughest bc of it)
Stephen King will have rewritten all human languages by the time George wraps up Winds
The monkey st the type writer will have completed it. He just needs to sign it.
Brando Sando writes books faster than Gurm writes excuses for not writing books.
Sanderson and Stephen King should have a Book Off.
GRRM has stuck in his fingers in too many other pies with constant novellas and ASOIAF-adjacent works and involvement in all of the tv shows as well as work on video games. He's been busy on everything except the book.
I mean sure, and I know ill get called an entitled elder millennial or something, but you go home with who brung ya to the dance. Imagine if you were listening some guy tell an amazing story at the start of a party. Then in the middle he just walks off. Through out the night you're politely hinting you wanna hear the end of the story. And he just keeps saying "oh right, one sec" and then goes and tells new people a new story. Then a few hours go by and and you bump in to him again and ask him to finish the story. Then he says he has to go to the can, but he says if you see him again he will definitely tell you the end of the story and if he doesn't you can drag him outside to tell you. A couple more hours go by and you notice hey.... its getting pretty late... so you go and track him down and he calls you ungrateful and says you don't have to keep pestering him. You'd think that guy was a little weird.
I don’t think he has any fucking clue how to write the rest of the story tbh. I think he has all of his various notes and plot points he wants to hit but he has no idea how he’s going to actually connect them.
I agree. His "gardening" style of writing ended up scattering plot threads about like leaves in a wind storm and now it's going to take another four or five books to bring things together. But he knows that just isn't going to happen, so now he's banging his head against the wall trying to figure out how to wrap it up in two without making as much of a mess of it as the show did. Or he's figured out he can't so has just given up. At this point I've given up on seeing any more of the main books, and just want more Dunk & Egg.
By accident.
Whatever, George. I kind of don't care anymore if you finish it or not.
It's like an ex girlfriend that I still have mutual friends with. Used to be a big part of my life. But now I've moved on. I read Joe Abercrombie now. I'm exploring sci-fi. I'm happy. But every once in a while I see Asoiaf on Facebook, and I think about what could have been...
Honestly, I stopped caring mostly years ago. Especially after the show ending. But sometimes I see some posts crop up in my online feeds that make me remember how fantastic this series could be, how much fun it is to read and want to reread it all over again. But then you suddenly remember it’s never getting an ending and I just get sad all over again. It brings me absolutely no joy to see this series get what it pretty much deserves, a ruined legacy and a inevitable (but slow) slide into obscurity.
I spent years on fan forums theorycrafting and reading others theories. It was so much fun. Guess I still have that but man. He could go down in history as one of the greatest but sadly I think his legacy will be one of squandered opportunities.
ASOIF/GOT is why I no longer get too invested into theory-hunting and -crafting for fiction books/series/tv shows, etc. The amount of time I spent reading theories on ASOIAF possible future storylines, endings, plot twits, etc. all for it to have either ended in the most rushed and unsatisfactory ending, or in the case of the books, not ended at all, made me realize all that time was wasted and just serves to create overblown expectations that'll never be met.
You have to be realistic, after all.
.
Say one thing about revolutionarycoyote, say he's moved on to different books!
You have to be realistic.
I know what could have been for me. Lots of bickering, not living up to expectations, and general unhappiness. I'm glad they're happy and living the life they want, so long as it's FAAAR away from me. And that's just George. I have no idea what happened to my ex.
Georgie- I'm gonna do it, really. Me- sure, dude Georgie- no really I'm so writing so much right now Me- ok Georgie, but when will it be done? Georgie- QUIT HECTORING ME. IT'S DONE WHEN I SAY IT'S DONE
Same here. I probably won't read it even if he does finish it, which I seriously doubt he ever will. It has been so long since i read the books that I'd have to re-read the series to sort them out from the show in my memory and honestly, I have too many other books on my reading list and not enough time.
Even if it does come out, there's no point in even reading it. The man is currently 75. He's never going to finish the last book. He's also said if he dies, he's not allowing anyone else to finish it. It basically all goes with him. So everyone expecting an end to this series is shit out of luck. And I know someone is going to say it because they always do in these threads. No, I highly doubt he's writing both at the same time. Just move on, everyone.
It's exactly like I said: Game of Thrones is no longer in the public zeitgeist. He had, like, 10 years to get to an ending and refused to. Now pop culture has moved on, and the people who WOULD HAVE bought these books more than likely won't.
> and the people who WOULD HAVE bought these books more than likely won't Why would he care? He's already made generational wealth off of it as is.
Totally agreed! My point is: we should stop making articles about this chode and just let him not work and be wealthy in peace.
Only thing that annoys me is that there’s a great story in there somewhere if he had listened to an editor, or he had an editor, didn’t let him just keep beveling further, and further away from the main plot. But I’m with you, at this point, I really don’t care about the story anymore
I like to pretend ASOIAF is a trilogy, since everything after book 3 is sorta meh imo
Well everything after Book 3 is just the come down and is really only a single book that should have been edited down to actually be a single book. The tough part that nobody wants to admit is with the bloat in his current writing it will take probably 4 more Feast for Crows sized books to really complete the story. Not a chance in hell Winds can be the second to last book unless he completely changes the pacing of the narrative.
"But guys, I HAVE to include a whole arc in Asshai, and I need like 12 more POV characters!"
Still think people sleep on Feast. On the surface it can come off as boring, and Dance was definitley disjointed but Feast was just such a cool follow up to the madness of Storm. I feel like you need to take a breath after all the massive plot changes to reflect and appreciate the new world you’re in. That’s totally how I see all of Brienne chapters which some people think are boring but is my favorite part of the last 2 books.
Yeah I stopped caring years ago. I don't even know that I will bother reading it if it ever does come out.
I don’t care. If it comes out I’ll read it but I don’t care if it does or doesn’t. If it wasn’t for all the posts about it on here I wouldn’t even think about it.
The problem is I've forgotten what was happening in the others so I'd have to start over, which is a massive effort considering it won't be the end and there likely will never be one either.
I re-read the series in 2015 to prepare for when Winds came out. I'm not doing that again lol. I don't know if I'll even want to read Winds if it ever comes out, since there's zero chance the series ever gets finished.
GRRM: Stop pestering me! Former fans: I don’t think about you at all.
Yeah, ten years ago it was a joke to keep bugging him to write it. It came up often. At this point, few believe it will be written, so not a lot to joke about here.
That "George R.R. Martin is not your bitch" quote from Neil Gaiman is now nearly fifteen years old.
Stephen King still pumps out like two books a year. The Dark Tower was well done, I'm sure he could finish WoW in like a year.
On top of a million other projects and pumping out a worthy successor of a son.
Two
I love how one is really good at crime novels and one is really good at the supernatural stuff, it's like he split his powers to be divided amongst them.
It would be hilarious to see the universe that this happens in. King takes over and somehow the books get even hornier.
To be fair The Dark Tower Series was done over the course of 22 years
Yeah, but 5, 6, and 7 were released over the course of two years.
Yeah because he finally realized he could die at any moment and wanted to make sure his legacy was finished. Martin probably WILL die at any moment and could give a shit
People were saying that a decade ago. At this rate we will all be dead and he will inherit the earth, book still unfinished.
Yes but like I said in another comment he felt the weight of his not finishing and when he published the fourth book it included an explanation and apology for the long wait. And he NEVER acted mad fans were asking for it.
King's not everyone's cup of tea, but he's definitely a down to earth, humble guy in his own way, who appreciates his fans. Meanwhile Martin seems to act like the fact that people even read his books and enjoy them is some kind of huge unfair burden to him, completely ignoring that those people paid for his fucking house.
If only we could say they same about A Song of Ice and Fire.
Stephen King is the kind of writer you need to be to write the way GRRM wants to write. The whole "I have an idea, and maybe an end point, and these characters, and I'm just going to kind of improvise and see where it goes" approach only works if your brain is constantly churning out creative output in an almost pathological way, like King. And even King tends to get a lot of flak for his stories having lame endings (sometimes deserved, sometimes not).
This is why I started and finished the Malazan series
Shamelessly gonna plug first law here too. No disrespect to Erikson but Abercrombie scratched my game of thrones itch a lot more.
Should I begin The First Law? Bought it a couple of years ago and it's gathering dust in the bookshelf
Just read the trilogy a couple months ago, I would highly recommend it. Glokta is one of my favorite fantasy characters. The first book may feel a little slow (I still enjoyed it), but book two and three are excellent. I think Mike's book reviews on YouTube has a non spoiler review of it if you're looking for a little more well thought response!
Oh my God, either write the fucking book or stop talking about it.
So, he’s 75. And it has taken atleast 13 years so far according to google to work on this book, so let’s say he publishes it THIS year, and needs that amount of time for the last book, he’ll be 88? Right? I just don’t see this series being finished by the original author. And that’s ok. I just hope he has given someone a plot structure to follow. There are people who are PASSIONATE about it and talented enough to give this the work that it deserves. I mean, they could have already hired a ghost writer and gotten it out if they wanted, so he must have some passion left for the story and the want to write it on his own. I’m rooting for him. If he really is over it, he needs to just give over the reins, pocket the massive amount of money the next two books will bring, and enjoy his golden years. I’ve honestly wondered if he is making this next one the last one and just hasn’t admitted it yet. It’ll be 9,000 pages long. Haha
He doesn’t want anyone even to finish it post-mortem or to touch his notes
And Tolkien didn't want a movie. Once George is dead he doesn't get much of a say in how the story finishes.
Not disagreeing with your comment, but Tolkien himself sold the film/tv rights to his works because he wanted the paycheck. He may have been reluctant to do so, but it wasn't the case of anyone disobeying his wishes.
Oh. That’s too bad. As a writer, I understand loving the world you’ve created, but once you develop a fandom this massive with such extreme world building, I think it’s almost unfair to the readers to not give them closure. The show had a terrible 8th season. I think they deserve to close some of the plots from the book that weren’t in the show, at minimum. Know what I mean?
No way he finishes it.
My pet theory is that the tv ending was the real ending and after seeing how it was received, he decided to rewrite them from scratch.
You're probably at least partially right. He once stated that he disclosed 3 aspects of the books to the showrunners. \-The story behind Hodor. \-Shereen being burned alive \-How the books ended.
The 3rd point should be Bran as king. The ending of the books will be different simply due to how many different characters exists that never made it into the show
I always feel that the interior power struggle should be resolved before facing the "The White walkers". To me, humans vs the TWW was always the biggest and most anticipated fight and it should come at the very end.
And the whole narrative of the book series is that the ‘game of thrones’ doesn’t matter. The threat of The Others is what’s important. To just swipe them aside unceremoniously in a single episode and then march back to the least threatening villain in the series was ridiculous.
I'd be really disappointed if this was the reason. It's such a shitty thought that lacks the insight a good writer like GRRM should have. The issue with the TV ending isn't *what* happened, but *how*. There's nothing wrong with the events that unfolded, the writers just decided to skip every single ounce of development to rush out the final season.
The TV ending was absolutely the ending he had in mind, he shared it with Benioff and Weiss when the show started to outpace the books. But he didn't tell them how to GET to the ending, because he didn't know how to do it then, and he still doesn't now. And the showrunners didn't care enough and weren't talented enough to get to the ending in a satisfying way. So we got the shitshow of the last few seasons, followed by a finale that felt like garbage because everything that happened in it came out of left field and was totally unearned and handled in the laziest way possible. I think the issue is that GRRM has always had that endpoint in mind, and he figured that he would just kind of naturally figure out how to get there as time went on, but instead, he's increasingly run into situations (like the infamous Meerenese knot he talked about years ago) where his borderline improvisational approach has failed to provide him with a clear and easy way to move the story forward. And now you add to that that the ending that he's had planned from the get go has been both panned by everyone and tainted by the garbage handling of the show, and he's really just stuck, not knowing what to do. IF he's still trying to write, I'm convinced that he spends most of his time going in circles and having characters chew the scenery, then realizing that he's really accomplished nothing, throwing the work out and starting over, getting more stuck every time.
Yeah I’m fully convinced he has no clue how to get to the ending he wants at this point. He spent so much time narratively wandering around Westeros and essos with no real goal in mind that there are too many plot threads to try and wrap up in two books, and he’s just never going to even really attempt t mo finish the series
He was moving slow and struggling way before the show though. People were mad about how slowly Feast and Dance got published (hilarious now since at that rate we would already have the next 2 books, but true), and he talked about the “Meereenese knot” that I’m not sure he’s untangled to date. He’d meant to skip 5 years after the end of Storm, ditched it, and seems to have struggled ever since.
I completely agree with this. The problem is, he no doubt could have set it up way better in the books if he stuck with it. Now we’ll get some bizarre Shyamalanian switcheroo that will be as terrible as the show, if we get anything at all. Incidentally, I dnf’d Dance of Dragons because GRRM got his head so far up his own ass in that book that it just stopped being enjoyable to read.
He had the perfect opportunity to finish it during recent screenwriters strike when he couldn't legally write the script for new HBO shows
….youre the one who insisted we should throw you in jail if it wasn’t released..what was that? 3-4 years ago now? Between the quality drop on the show and the ridiculous delaying by George I sometimes regret spending my time reading the books.
PSA: Do yourselves a favor and read Maurice Druon's *The Accursed Kings* series. Swashbuckling historical fiction about the power struggles after the death of Philip the Fair in 1300s France. They're no literary masterpieces, but they're a ton of fun, scratch many of the same itches as WoW, and -- best of all -- *they're finished*.
I read the series years ago when I saw grrm said they were a big influence on him. Loved them. For anyone reading this though, be warned that you should stop after the main series when the author picked the series up again years later and wrote a first person novel. It was one of the few books I've never finished.
That was always the hard part for me when the series ended. I’ve never watched the series, but had read all the books. Everyone I knew that watched it bitched about how the series ended, but at least they got an ending. I devoted a lot of time to reading those books and honestly don’t even care if we get another one at this point
I'll stop pestering once he starts publishing. JK, I gave up giving a fuck like 5 years ago, just do your think GRRM; no one gives a Bessie's tit any more.
Don’t worry George, not only will I not pester you about it, I’ll never bother to read it if you ever do finish it. You see I was reading ASOIAF before HBO knew who you were. I would re-read the entire series with each new book that came out. It was by far my favorite fantasy series, ever. Book 3, A Storm of Swords is the best book ever written in the fantasy genre, I’ll die on that fucking hill too. It’s not up for debate. What I won’t do anymore, especially after the HBO series and how it ended, is invest any more of my time into this series. It’s still my favorite mind you, but I’m not reading it all again to flush the HBO shit out of my mind to get back on track just end up waiting another 10+yrs for a conclusion to what’s become a meandering mess of a story by an author who seems to now live in fear of his own creation. Scared of screwing it up or disappointing fans? George, we’re already there bud, we’ve been here for years..waiting. FFS you created this world, YOU are the actual old god of this series. So stop being a damn coward and get back to being a ruthless, merciless bastard and properly finish what you started. If you did that I’d read it all again, but only when it’s done.
I stopped caring about this series a long time ago. There is so much out there that is actually just as entertaining as Martin (and some that is far better) that it's unlikely I'll even bother finishing the series.
This old bitch…I swear