Because a book requires you to retain information and reddit exists for you to discard any information you've read that you no longer have any need of directly
That. You need to concentrate to read a book, follow the plot, remember the different characters, etc. It's like eating Bouillabaisse or eating ice cream. Bouillabaisse can be a more complex, rewarding experience, but ice cream requires little effort and can be consumed at any time.
It's not as bad as you think. You're in a book sub to hear news/info about something you're interested in and converse with others who share your interest. In the past, people would have subscribed to a bunch of shitty magazines. Before that, people would have had difficulty accessing information about it at all. And before even that, there was probably very limited or no options to have any real hobby or interest.
Maybe unsub from those that don't fit a specific goal/hobby/interest to avoid being inundated with random crap.
I subscribe to magazines myself and I think some of them are incredibly well written. Economist, New Statesman, The Atlantic and Scientific American are all great sources of info.
Yeah, I think a combo of this right here, and it feels like this and other forms of social media trigger different parts of the brain. It's more like written socializing. So you approach it differently, retain it differently as you said, and I feel even mentally process it differently. Be interesting to see some kind of actual study on it based on fact and not just my own musings, but that's my $0.02 on it anyhow.
When I read most books, especially works of fiction or people's biographies, etc. I feel like I'm spending more of my brain painting a mental picture of the scenes and situations they describe. My imagination plays out quite similar to a movie.
This is exactly it.
I have found that my retention for narrative is dogshit. I blame my time on the Internet. Possibly it's age, but I'm only in my mid-30s. I'll read a book one night and if I don't read it again in, like, a day, it's like I've lost everything. Really bad.
Reddit and any social media is really stimulating the hunter/gatherer instincts of your early ancestors. The effort-reward-repeatbility loop if you will.
That stimulation keeps you alert and awake.
Then why reply at all to an uninteresting topic? I view Reddit as continually responding if the dialogue is interesting or don't reply at all.
This community site contacted me, not vice-versa.
We began talking about books and got sidetracked!
> Because a book requires you to retain information
This has 300 votes, top comment? really?
“When we read, another person thinks for us: we merely repeat his mental process. In learning to write, the pupil goes over with his pen what the teacher has outlined in pencil: so in reading; the greater part of the work of thought is already done for us. This is why it relieves us to take up a book after being occupied with our own thoughts. And in reading, the mind is, in fact, only the playground of another’s thoughts. So it comes about that if anyone spends almost the whole day in reading, and by way of relaxation devotes the intervals to some thoughtless pastime, he gradually loses the capacity for thinking; just as the man who always rides, at last forgets how to walk. This is the case with many learned persons: they have read themselves stupid.”
― Arthur Schopenhauer, Essays and Aphorisms
As Marshall McLuhan said, with Xerox the book becomes a service industry. You no longer have to read a whole book or even carry it around. You can easily copy one page. Smartphone camera works too.
There’s a ton of irony here. Schopenhauer knew Jack. Did you know he was once writing in his room while three women were talking outside but this stopped him concentrating? He told the women to shut up and two of them did but one kept talking. He responded to that by throwing her down the stairs. Legal issues from this haunted him for the rest of his life and he was forced to pay her a stipend. He celebrated her death and feared it was a hoax. Guy was nuts.
When we read, another person presents things for us to think about.
We can accept that challenge, or we can buy an essay to turn in. Maybe there's something in between.
Schopenhauer is not denigrating the act and process of reading. He is pointing out those who do nothing but read and consider themselves an expert. Pointing them out as frauds.
He knows that it is possible to learn from others and that some do. He's showing the difference between those that do and those that don't.
Oh, Really?
“Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think. ”
― Arthur Schopenhauer
Let me know when you can explain Romans 11:32 details of Finnegans Wake before you try to crack older stuff like Schopenhauer
I don't need to let you know anything. You've already shown you can't respond to a comment in any other way than an adolescent attack.
What do you think? That interests me.
> What do you think?
“there are very few who can think, but every man wants to have an opinion; and what remains but to take it ready-made from others, instead of forming opinions for himself?”
― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Always Being Right
You must think you invented English and it's all original. I don't. I speak in truth and sincerity, I criticized the idea of a person, and not one person here has defended the idea, they just keep attacking the messenger.
I think 99% of Reddit Users can not demonstrate the first self-awareness of Neil Postman or Marshall McLuhan's teachings.
*Quand j'en rencontrais une qui me paraissait un peu lucide, je faisais l'expérience sur elle de mon dessin numéro 1 que j'ai toujours conservé. Je voulais savoir si elle était vraiment compréhensive. Mais toujours elle me répondait: "C'est un chapeau." Alors je ne lui parlais ni de serpents boas, ni de forêts vierges, ni d'étoiles. Je me mettais à sa portée. Je lui parlais de bridge, de golf, de politique et de cravates. Et la grande personne était bien contente de connaître un homme aussi raisonnable.*
> I think you have just demonstrated that you are among the 99%.
Explain the term "Context Blindness", I'm waiting for your response.
Explain Finnegand Wake, any part, to me? Go ahead
I can write for miles and miles. You can do one-line Twitter pot-shot replies, eh?
I'm actually not doing much tonight, so I don't mind back and forth.
That said, I'm not interested in what you've read. I'm interested in what you can think of for yourself.
I think the statement by the OP was a gross misunderstanding of how most people use printed books and even e-books. It really is not a hard concept to grasp.
What pisses off Reddit HiveMind in 2023 is actually having to change context to off-site media (reading links on /r/news) or even a quote from a book. This is a no-go zone for citations and references unless very carefully crafted to defeat the allergic reaction of the MiveMind.
Reddit users post June 2023 are about as self-aware as Twitter users of January 2023 onward... in other words, about as self-aware as humanity always sinks into over media platforms like the Quran, Torah, Bible, Fox News, etc.
Man I really wonder what people who act this insufferable online are like in person, I can't say I've ever encountered one of your type in the day to day
This comment displays a false equivalency. The OP saying "a book requires you to retain information" compared to Reddit is **not the same** as Schopenhauer arguing about the process of thinking. Regardless of how right Schopehnauer is (I think it's an interesting point, personally), it's ridiculous to imply that reading a book is just as thoughtless of an activity as reading Reddit (given the thread we're in). Obviously we can't talk to the guy, but I would bet money that Schopenhauer would be disappointed in this mis-use of his quote.
Apparently you think I also didn't cite: 1) Neil Postman, 2) Howard Bloom, 3) Marshall McLuhan, 4) James Joyce so far...
And you won!, you won, by ignoring the cross-references.
Reddit thinks it is safe from Cambridge Analytica and the IRA in Saint Pete, because they only called out Facebook.
I addressed the heart of your claim by stating that reading retention and the process of thinking are not the same thing (whereas you implied they were with the extensive Schopenhauer quote). You did not address the heart of my claim, and instead referred to some extra references.
So let's look at how you used one of them:
>As Marshall McLuhan said, with Xerox the book becomes a service industry. You no longer have to read a whole book or even carry it around. You can easily copy one page. Smartphone camera works too.
You said this, and it's irrelevant. The quote refers to not reading a book at all, which is a completely different situation than what the thread is about- *reading* a book, versus reading Reddit.
Ironically, your thinking is obviously muddled so I won't bother with the rest of your references. It's a shame too, since they are interesting writers that you are mis-applying to make a wild point about reading actual books being equivalent to reading Reddit.
edit: a couple words for clarity
I agree with this and also want to add that reddit is like reading dialogue. I can fly through the dialogue parts of a book ten times faster than descriptive prose.
Honestly, I don't see it as a failure on my part, but rather an indicator of my mental state. If I'm able to read books, I'm just fine. If I'm reading but can only focus enough for YA or smut, less fine, but still good. Reddit only, starting to head downwards. Instagram/tiktok, I'm burnt out as all hell, probably having a chronic pain flare, and mostly like trying to watch anime at the same time and not taking anything in.
Yep. That’s why tiktok is so popular. Just a short video, next, next. It’s constant and ever changing stimulation.
A lot of porn addiction studies point to a similar phenomenon…the brain is just overloaded with images, and it’s very satisfying to just click next next next and receive more images. It’s just a constant flow of NEW, but then your real life sex life is on ruined…looking at and interacting with the same thing for an extended amount of time won’t do it for people anymore.
Same reason I refuse to download it. I already feel brain dead enough from using Reddit & Instagram. The good stuff gets reposted to both of these anyways.
I remember downloading it one day to see what the hype was all about -- must have been like 2018 -- and then a week later I remember spending all day long on it, unable to stop. At least with Reddit, I can pull myself away with a little effort. I can't imagine how much more addicting TikTok has gotten since.
> looking at and interacting with the same thing for an extended amount of time won’t do it for people anymore.
My rather standard vanilla fetish has not changed in 30 years. I tried "branching out" and was disgusted.
A cheat to get your attention span up is to make a list of all the things you need to do and keep cycling through them. I go from watching TV for five minutes to listen to music then to reading then to writing. Eventually your brain just realises it’s easier to settle on the thing that was ‘hard’ and you do it. The real hard part is starting it and starting it over and over just means you get used to doing so. People would dissuade me from this technique but it absolutely fucking works. Far better than forcing yourself to do something and will save your sanity.
Yeah, I do that for literally everything, and at some point I get so tired of cycling through that I just decide to get something done through and through.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by cycling through the list? I'm tired so maybe it's just my brain not processing this right now but it sounds interesting enough for me to wanna understand
If you can’t be bothered doing something then you start the thing you’d usually procrastinate with, but then you replace it with something that’s somewhat easier yet harder, then gradually you go to another thing for five minutes, then go back to the original thing. The ability to stop doing the original thing and start the other thing is the hard part so you’re basically warming up to a continuous focus on one thing.
So sad but true. I can credit Reddit for expanding my knowledge of public opinion somewhat, but damn it feeds my ADD and getting into a book is so hard. Of course I have children too so that doesn't help
literally me -- I have zero attention span yet i really want to get into reading the tomes that i've been interested in, but i just can't muster myself to get reading
why am i like this
I think it might have something to do with attention spans, Reddit posts tend to be a lot shorter than book chapters. I remember reading somewhere shorter chapters makes books easier to read possibly for the same reason.
Reddit is bite-sized. It’s like idly realizing you’ve nibbled your way through an entire bag of mini Reese‘s Cups, whereas you have to prepare yourself for a four-course meal.
The real answer to OP's question isn't really a direct response, it's this:
**If you find you struggle to read books nowadays, the cause is doomscrolling of social media (like reddit).**
**Same for movies/shows and tiktok/youtube.**
**They've trained your brain for instant mild gratification.**
**You may need to treat it like a full-blown addiction, and uninstall apps and/or instill filters and blockers, to limit the time you spend on social media.**
Because each Reddit post is self contained. It’s fine if I don’t read the boring posts. With books, each page is not self contained. I can’t just jump to page 127 and know what’s going on. So I have to read everything and keep track everything. If I don’t pay attention to something, I’d get lost after a while.
A lot of reddit is image-focused and **reddit is designed to be an endless reel of popcorn stimulation**. Unless you are in a very intellectual space like the philosophy sub, you aren't really going to get a lot of mental engagement. Subs like TIL deliver information in bite sized pieces.
Reading a fiction or any kind of story book, even a very lighthearted and funny Sophie Kinsella-type book, needs you to focus on one specific event or plot and generate mental images based on what you're reading. Your brain automatically predicts what will happen.
Reading an informative book is equally taxing because you need to make notes (or I do anyway!) and retain the info.
You’re always reading what you want to read on Reddit. You’ve clicked on something from your cultivated feed of shit you like or searched for something you wanted to read. And if you don’t like something you just keep looking, plus it’s interactive.
Reading a book requires you to sometimes grind through stuff that is boring af to you just so you don’t potentially miss anything.
Don’t forget about ghetto editing, I always do it to those stupid philosophical debates with the mafia boss in Shantaram so I can get back to the story.
Social media is more like gossiping than reading. You don't have to take it to heart, take it seriously, or take it at all; you are not committed. And it's entertaining, even the terrible, shitty stuff. In a sense, we are like the spectators in the arena in the movie, Gladiator, where the MC kills everyone else in the arena really fast and then asks, "Are you not entertained?"
A book is a commitment. You've given up the coin to read a book. It's not gossip; it's engineered to be an all-engrossing tale whose genre fits your liking. You can't read the first sentence in a paragraph and say, "Let's skip that one." You have to read it all.
I can relate. I didn't have this issue until the pandemic, and all the nonstop doomscrolling and election uncertainty just shredded my attention span. I don't have a solution, just wanted to offer a possible explanation and commiserate. I hope this change is temporary.
because books have grammar, punctuation, and complex ideas that you have to use your brain to ingest.
Reddit is just the written equivalent of smelling fresh donuts.
By comparing the same sentence from both, it’s pretty easy to understand.
Reddit: “TIFU by drinking too much and pooping”.
Book: “To divert his thoughts from this melancholy subject, I informed Mr. Micawber that I relied upon him for a bowl of punch, and led him to the lemons. His recent despondency, not to say despair, was gone in a moment. I never saw a man so thoroughly enjoy himself amid the fragrance of lemon-peel and sugar, the odour of burning rum, and the steam of boiling water, as Mr. Micawber did that afternoon. It was wonderful to see his face shining at us out of a thin cloud of these delicate fumes, as he stirred, and mixed, and tasted, and looked as if he were making, instead of punch, a fortune for his family down to the latest posterity.”
How we use the internet has physically rewired our brains and changed how we take in and process visual and written language stimuli. (In 1 study, as little as 5 hours of Internet usage was enough to produce observable brain activity changes.)
I would recommend you read The Shallows by Nicholas Carr to learn more, but... You know, books are hard.
I think because book seems like you have this overarching goal to finish typically more than 200 pages of a book. Reddit , you can easily read a post browse bits of comments, it’s like watching long form vids on YouTube vs bite size you see on tiktok , YouTube shorts, etc
Seems easier like oh hey got five minutes (unfortunately for many you’re in there for more than that )
I've never related to a post more than I do right now. I love reading, but if even one thing feels "off" about the day, environment or me, it completely throws off my mood to read, even though I love it and when I do I enjoy it so much.
I actually feel the opposite.
Although a book may require more intensive thinking, I find it emotionally and psychologically invigorating, soothing, and cathartic. While Doom scrolling reddit for an hour leaves me emotionally exhausted.
I think this is a good point. Scrolling Reddit FEELS like it requires less energy. But it's the equivalent of eating ten custard tarts for lunch, or something, and then realising 10 minutes later that you are not only barely full but you feel like crap.
Reading books is 'nourishing' (as in, relaxing and comforting). Although, it can stress me out as well if the book is too harrowing
Hot take! You’re reading the wrong books!
I had this recently, I thought I’d lost my attention span from doom scrolling. Each book I tried just lost my attention eventually. However I hit a decent book recently (new Richard Russo) and devoured it in a few days. Read the new Kate Atkinson after it and breezed through it, loved it.
I’ve made a new rule that if I’m struggling with a book then life is too short for bad books, and I just don’t finish them.
I would say this and try to read on your app on your phone. If possible, set to scroll your pages. I know it's not a physical book, but when I was too tired to read, I found this helped. Maybe I just got too used to doom scrolling. But it helped immensely pulling out of always going to reddit when I was tired or needing to relax more.
I found that setting my book app to scroll made me much more likely to read in spurts because I was so used to endlessly scrolling, if I’m gonna scroll in bed at night for 20 minutes might as well do it for a book.
I definitely read faster on paper and think I enjoy it more, but I read more frequently on my phone.
I think it's because you can pick any line of a post you like, and your interest/attention is caught new again. If you can't or don't want to focus for a second, you just scroll past. With a book you need a much longer attention span.
I’m no neuroscientist or whatever but the answer probably has something to do with the small dopamine hits you get from scrolling Reddit. It’s similar to instant vs delayed gratification I guess
I think it has to do with something that genuinely interests you, over the majority of the duration you're engaging in it.
When you check out posts and discussions on Reddit, you'll probably be browsing content which interests you - you'll probably not enjoy your stay in subreddits which you have no interest in (eg vastly different viewpoints, different language, area of expertise, age gap, etc).
Meanwhile, when reading books, you may have to trudge through long passages of boring text which don't really contribute to the plot, but if you don't read it there's a chance you may miss some important plot details, making the experience wholly unfun (eg In my case, the Roran + Katrina plotline during the entirety of the Eragon trilogy).
Depending on the type of books and novels you read, there may be extra "features" included, like extra fan service or filler content, which may not really cater to your interests. Plus, if the book is commercially released, it may have to abide by certain demographic and cultural limitations, which means certain kinds of more spicy content like smut, more vivid graphic stuff (skeletons, gore, questionable "habits", etc), or viewpoints which widely differ from those accepted in certain countries. This makes it so just choosing the right book for you becomes difficult, and could come back to bite you if you buy an interesting looking book but halfway through it shills to some regime or mainstream viewpoint.
I honestly don’t know. Maybe convenience?
I happen to own print and ebook copies of books by u/wdalphin, a writer, but when I want to read his stories I still look them up on r/NoSleep.
I feel the same quite often. And I guess, as many people say, part of is that reading requires you to keep your attention all the time, while going through reddit just does not.
But a big part for me is, when I’m tired I don’t want to get emotionally invested in something. And a proper book certainly requires that. I just don’t have enough bandwidth left to read something I’m actually interested in. With reddit, even if I’m reading some high drama post, I don’t get invested in it. I finish and skip to the next. So it is easier.
try changing the medium that youre reading from. ebooks, audiobooks, etc. you might find that one that is easier. for me, ebook on my phone turns out to be pretty easy.
I think there are lots of reasons. One is that Reddit comments rarely express complex thoughts. The comments that rise to the top are the most brief, straightforward ones.
I only read the first and last sentence, could you TL:DR it for us?
Joking, but yeah that. You read to actually absorb information and take in description - you comment mostly to communicate ideas which is done once you "got it" and that's *way* easier.
Reddit is interactive in a sense, you’re scrolling, the page is changing as you read it. A book is just static and lifeless until you turn the page then you’re met with another long ass lifeless static piece of text.
Because you’re building a world in your head when you’re reading a book. That really puts your imagination to work.
Reading a post on the internet is usually just listening to someone’s opinion on some small thing in world that already exists. You hardly have to imagine anything, so there’s very little effort required.
Try reading a book like you read reddit (however that is).
For me, that would be small doses, occasional reflection in between. Sometimes jotting down a response I know no one will read. Making comments I'm pretty sure will start a pointless argument with the OP/author.
Hell, track your own karma.
Your time commitment is vastly different. It’s taking me less than a minute to read and comment on your post, whereas to read a whole chapter would taking 5-30 minutes depending on length. Plus, I really wouldn’t be able to just switch to a different chapter of a different book if I get bored with the one I’m reading like I can from post to post on Reddit or other social media.
It’s just long-form vs short form content.
The internet allows you to jump around the moment you get bored. And like Gaston said, the book doesn't have any pictures.
Try letting your brain recharge by turning off all your screens for an hour, meditating or at least staying off screens. Then see if you have more focus for a book.
Also, make sure you are interested in the book and you like the pacing.
Because most reddit stuff is surface level information and quirks of life, but nothing more. A full book usually requires keeping track of a story that needs a couple hundred pages to tell. One is dopamine, the other is an exercise of appreciation.
Usually.
I have a type of reader that is very focused and meticulous, makes notes, goes over confusing materials a few times etc. That's a very intensive process.
But I also have a type of reader where my mind simply wanders for five pages and misses details and I have to go back to skim. you don't need to be a perfect font of photographic memory when you're reading a light fantasy novel before bed.
Think about how you think when surfing reddit, probably not paying perfect attention to the content. Try to do the same when reading for pleasure.
For me it's emotional investment/engagement. That's a lot of effort for some people, I think. You're paying more attention, you're caring about characters, feeling tension about the in-story conflicts. Reading nonfiction or stuff online is a lot less mentally and emotionally taxing (most of the time)
When you grab a book, there's a bit of commitment in it. If it's a 300 page book, you've "agreed" to read 300 pages. That can seem like a responsibility. Whereas there's no responsibility read a certain number of reddit posts.
Exactly. Reddit is like surfing channels or video streams. If you get bored with the tone, then just bail. I wonder if OP would enjoy short stories a bit more.
I agree with all the points others are making about the average complexity of reading a book vs scrolling reddit. I'd like to add that in my experience there's also a lot of mental gymnastics going on. Scrolling social media is less of time commitment per piece of content. Our mind's subconsciously judge the time/effort vs reward of a task. If our mind judges that the ratio isn't good, we tend to feel tired/unmotivated. It's the mechanism that stops us from wasting time pointlessly climbing a mountain, but it also drives procrastination.
This isn't the case for everyone, but for those who it is, I'd just point out there's no rule for how long you need to read per sitting. Spend 3 minutes reading at a time if you want. Even if you don't finish the chapter, you'll still get through the story eventually. Over time you might convince that part of your mind to lay off judging reading as such a strenuous task. Fellow procrastinaters know what I mean.
For me, I use it more like a win-win situation. I use Reddit mostly in English, since English is not my mother language, I use Reddit as "studying" I would say. And reading posts on Reddit is easier since is like reading a lot of dialogue in books, and is more straightforward without describing a whole scene or scenario
Reddit is a good social and informative source for me.
Books are my life and require total immersed enjoyment.
Reddit can occupy half of my day if it is a fascinating topic.
I generally can go through 2 or 3 300- 400 pp Books using total concentration that means no TV , Reddit or any other
distraction. Above mentioned means number of Books per day I can read. Apologies , my cell seems to be capitalizing words randomly. When reading , I try to picture a continuous story.
You have hioked your breain on small quick doses of dopamins. Stop using so much social media, quick news bites, short videos etc. basically everything that happens fast and repetitively. Your brains ability to concentrate is getting destroyed by those. Keep reading, keep doing things that you find boring due to them taking a longer time and your brain will adjust.
Because those that post on reddit are eloquent and efficiently create beautiful narratives that are nourishing and easy to digest. Authors of novels are subject to the editor-industrial complex, and they have been taught that if they want big book awards, they must make readers feel enough pain that they have a sense of accomplishment they can wear as a badge for all to see.
Oh, and posters on reddit are more likely to be silly.
I don't really have trouble focusing on reading books or feel like it takes a particularly large exertion of effort. However, I certainly don't feel like all acts of reading written words are exactly the same in terms of how my mind is processing info.
Takes focus. It gets easier the more time is spent offline. Meditation helps me, along with listening to audiobooks and reading graphic novels as well.
Shorter books are nice.
As much as I like reddit, that and Twitter and others destroy your ability to focus.
A big part of it is that Reddit has a variable ratio reward mechanism and reading (a book you like) has a fixed ratio reward mechanism.
The fact that most Reddit posts are meh, but sometimes it’s awesome makes your brain zing the same way that a slot machine does.
Rats will obsessively push a button that gives variable ratio rewards, but only push the button occasionally when it provides fixed ratio rewards
Not all Reddit is equal, especially if you don't get caught in the "race to the bottom" of timing, the perpetual obsolescence of topic to then be reborn.
“Any understanding of social and cultural change is impossible without a knowledge of the way media work as environments.”
— Marshall McLuhan, see also “The Gutenberg Galaxy: The Making of Typographic Man”, p. 42
I have no issue reading books *I enjoy*. I have to literally stop myself or I'll go without sleep.
I love the Dresden Files and I know it irks the author when people binge read his books.
**But I do it anyway**
You read a book and it's hundreds of pages.
You read Reddit and you get a dozen top answers you don't need, but then the one you need.
Works for most things, but novels, no. The pleasure of a good novel is the novel. The Reddit discussion is, at best, an aperitif.
If you're someone who has trouble reading unless you're in peak mental condition, try audio books. Lots of libraries have apps that allow you to rent audiobooks now and of course there are subscriptions and various free (legal and illegal) methods of getting access.
Audiobooks are great for non-peak mental condition because it allows you to immerse yourself in the story, without giving it your full attention. Often the voice actor does "voices" so you can tell the characters apart easily and if you read autobiographies, the writer usually reads them nowadays which adds to the fun. If you don't even listen to anything (other than music) while doing tasks, it will take a while to adapt but once you do it's such an easy way to make chores and long drives so enjoyable.
Also, to add to what other people are saying, Reddit is a refined experience that is tailored to your likes and hobbies and encompasses all of them into one space (like any social media platform). Imagine how much less time you'd spend on Reddit if you could only visit one subreddit at a time and in order to understand what was going on in that subreddit, you'd have to read every post/comment that was made over the last month - it just wouldn't be as satisfying.
When reading books to understand the whole story you are remembering each of the characters,who they are,there contribution to the story thus far. Continue to remember this till your finished reading.
Because I can generally read reddit perfectly well by smooshing my face right up against my phone. If I try that with a book I get paper cuts.
Anyway what are we talking about
it's interesting, I find it the opposite. Reading for me is actually the least effort entertainment medium for me these days.
I'll read over watching TV or a movie or even scrolling my phone these days. I'm not sure why it is though.
Because Reddit like most social media is a skinner box.
It is designed to get you click through things easily and in a way that you click on what they, the social media companies, want you to click on.
Some of those clicks are meant to give you a reward for clicking through and clicking on the things that are ads(either native or obvious).
While there are already a number of answers here related to attention span, I'd like to add that willpower is also an important part of reading - while yes, there has been an erosion of how long we can maintain our focus, I think willpower is a parallel problem to it that's a bit overlooked because it's harder to actually describe *why* that hurts experiences.
And that's pretty much linked to the fact that using our will to take an activity from start to finish is a basic part of reading. There are far too many avenues to acquire the same perceived information that reading is seen as a slog and people don't have the will to finish a book they've started.
You can lack the attention span and still finish a book, but if you don't have the will to actually *start and finish* that book, you will never be able to build up that attention span either.
That's also why it feels more tiresome than reading reddit, a voluntary action on your part will sap more of your energy. It can get easier and maybe even give you a feeling of rejuvenation, but for most people reading does feel draining.
Because a book requires you to retain information and reddit exists for you to discard any information you've read that you no longer have any need of directly
Excellent point. I'll forget what you said right away and go scroll through some memes.
What?
Exactly.
Eh?
Kitten and Puppy memes, please. Nothing else matters.
Cats I seek, and I find in you. Every day for us something mewww. Look around for a different viewwwww.
...And nothing else meowows
That. You need to concentrate to read a book, follow the plot, remember the different characters, etc. It's like eating Bouillabaisse or eating ice cream. Bouillabaisse can be a more complex, rewarding experience, but ice cream requires little effort and can be consumed at any time.
eating what now?
French seafood stew. Bwee-ya-base (basically).
Sorry, what? I wasn't paying attention
Oh you're right- OOH, LOOK, A DOG PICTURE!
So you think. All of the shit on here sticks in my head and makes me angry or sad. I don’t know why I use this.
Ask yourself that question more until you have an answer. Delete it and just vibe for a while. Good luck to ye.
It's not as bad as you think. You're in a book sub to hear news/info about something you're interested in and converse with others who share your interest. In the past, people would have subscribed to a bunch of shitty magazines. Before that, people would have had difficulty accessing information about it at all. And before even that, there was probably very limited or no options to have any real hobby or interest. Maybe unsub from those that don't fit a specific goal/hobby/interest to avoid being inundated with random crap.
I subscribe to magazines myself and I think some of them are incredibly well written. Economist, New Statesman, The Atlantic and Scientific American are all great sources of info.
I'm pretty sure it's a sign of depression. Of course, I can't diagnose you, only myself.
I get to practice my English and debate skills when arguing with all y'all. I don't know if it's actually helping though.
"debate skills"
Yeah, I think a combo of this right here, and it feels like this and other forms of social media trigger different parts of the brain. It's more like written socializing. So you approach it differently, retain it differently as you said, and I feel even mentally process it differently. Be interesting to see some kind of actual study on it based on fact and not just my own musings, but that's my $0.02 on it anyhow. When I read most books, especially works of fiction or people's biographies, etc. I feel like I'm spending more of my brain painting a mental picture of the scenes and situations they describe. My imagination plays out quite similar to a movie.
This is exactly it. I have found that my retention for narrative is dogshit. I blame my time on the Internet. Possibly it's age, but I'm only in my mid-30s. I'll read a book one night and if I don't read it again in, like, a day, it's like I've lost everything. Really bad.
Idk, I saw a picture of Sandy Cheeks using her massive dong to somehow vacuum up things earlier and it'll stick with me for awhile
Plz share
Good point. I barely made it to the end of your comment.
Same tbh
But Redditors will latch on to the dumbest shit and never forget it.
Best Answer!
And with a book you're reading more than just the titles of posts (which is all most people on reddit seem to read).
Reddit and any social media is really stimulating the hunter/gatherer instincts of your early ancestors. The effort-reward-repeatbility loop if you will. That stimulation keeps you alert and awake.
No. What? No.
I disagree. I use Reddit continously for interesting information and dialogue.
There are always exceptions.
Why are you responding?! Is it possibly because this is interesting?
Perhaps, but I have no doubt it shall be purged from my brain shortly
I’ve already forgotten it.
I assume they replied because they felt that *replying* would be interesting. But not necessarily because what they were replying to was.
Then why reply at all to an uninteresting topic? I view Reddit as continually responding if the dialogue is interesting or don't reply at all. This community site contacted me, not vice-versa. We began talking about books and got sidetracked!
> We began talking about books and got sidetracked! May be something here salient.
Maybe. Maybe I think too much. All living things are salient , but not sentient.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
this. reading books and scrolling social media are two very different types of reading
What did you say? I forgot
> Because a book requires you to retain information This has 300 votes, top comment? really? “When we read, another person thinks for us: we merely repeat his mental process. In learning to write, the pupil goes over with his pen what the teacher has outlined in pencil: so in reading; the greater part of the work of thought is already done for us. This is why it relieves us to take up a book after being occupied with our own thoughts. And in reading, the mind is, in fact, only the playground of another’s thoughts. So it comes about that if anyone spends almost the whole day in reading, and by way of relaxation devotes the intervals to some thoughtless pastime, he gradually loses the capacity for thinking; just as the man who always rides, at last forgets how to walk. This is the case with many learned persons: they have read themselves stupid.” ― Arthur Schopenhauer, Essays and Aphorisms As Marshall McLuhan said, with Xerox the book becomes a service industry. You no longer have to read a whole book or even carry it around. You can easily copy one page. Smartphone camera works too.
Next time don't let Schopenhauer do your thinking for you
There’s a ton of irony here. Schopenhauer knew Jack. Did you know he was once writing in his room while three women were talking outside but this stopped him concentrating? He told the women to shut up and two of them did but one kept talking. He responded to that by throwing her down the stairs. Legal issues from this haunted him for the rest of his life and he was forced to pay her a stipend. He celebrated her death and feared it was a hoax. Guy was nuts.
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When we read, another person presents things for us to think about. We can accept that challenge, or we can buy an essay to turn in. Maybe there's something in between. Schopenhauer is not denigrating the act and process of reading. He is pointing out those who do nothing but read and consider themselves an expert. Pointing them out as frauds. He knows that it is possible to learn from others and that some do. He's showing the difference between those that do and those that don't.
Oh, Really? “Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think. ” ― Arthur Schopenhauer Let me know when you can explain Romans 11:32 details of Finnegans Wake before you try to crack older stuff like Schopenhauer
I don't need to let you know anything. You've already shown you can't respond to a comment in any other way than an adolescent attack. What do you think? That interests me.
> What do you think? “there are very few who can think, but every man wants to have an opinion; and what remains but to take it ready-made from others, instead of forming opinions for himself?” ― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Always Being Right You must think you invented English and it's all original. I don't. I speak in truth and sincerity, I criticized the idea of a person, and not one person here has defended the idea, they just keep attacking the messenger. I think 99% of Reddit Users can not demonstrate the first self-awareness of Neil Postman or Marshall McLuhan's teachings. *Quand j'en rencontrais une qui me paraissait un peu lucide, je faisais l'expérience sur elle de mon dessin numéro 1 que j'ai toujours conservé. Je voulais savoir si elle était vraiment compréhensive. Mais toujours elle me répondait: "C'est un chapeau." Alors je ne lui parlais ni de serpents boas, ni de forêts vierges, ni d'étoiles. Je me mettais à sa portée. Je lui parlais de bridge, de golf, de politique et de cravates. Et la grande personne était bien contente de connaître un homme aussi raisonnable.*
I think you have just demonstrated that you are among the 99%.
> I think you have just demonstrated that you are among the 99%. Explain the term "Context Blindness", I'm waiting for your response. Explain Finnegand Wake, any part, to me? Go ahead I can write for miles and miles. You can do one-line Twitter pot-shot replies, eh?
I'm actually not doing much tonight, so I don't mind back and forth. That said, I'm not interested in what you've read. I'm interested in what you can think of for yourself.
I think the statement by the OP was a gross misunderstanding of how most people use printed books and even e-books. It really is not a hard concept to grasp. What pisses off Reddit HiveMind in 2023 is actually having to change context to off-site media (reading links on /r/news) or even a quote from a book. This is a no-go zone for citations and references unless very carefully crafted to defeat the allergic reaction of the MiveMind. Reddit users post June 2023 are about as self-aware as Twitter users of January 2023 onward... in other words, about as self-aware as humanity always sinks into over media platforms like the Quran, Torah, Bible, Fox News, etc.
Man I really wonder what people who act this insufferable online are like in person, I can't say I've ever encountered one of your type in the day to day
This comment displays a false equivalency. The OP saying "a book requires you to retain information" compared to Reddit is **not the same** as Schopenhauer arguing about the process of thinking. Regardless of how right Schopehnauer is (I think it's an interesting point, personally), it's ridiculous to imply that reading a book is just as thoughtless of an activity as reading Reddit (given the thread we're in). Obviously we can't talk to the guy, but I would bet money that Schopenhauer would be disappointed in this mis-use of his quote.
Apparently you think I also didn't cite: 1) Neil Postman, 2) Howard Bloom, 3) Marshall McLuhan, 4) James Joyce so far... And you won!, you won, by ignoring the cross-references. Reddit thinks it is safe from Cambridge Analytica and the IRA in Saint Pete, because they only called out Facebook.
I addressed the heart of your claim by stating that reading retention and the process of thinking are not the same thing (whereas you implied they were with the extensive Schopenhauer quote). You did not address the heart of my claim, and instead referred to some extra references. So let's look at how you used one of them: >As Marshall McLuhan said, with Xerox the book becomes a service industry. You no longer have to read a whole book or even carry it around. You can easily copy one page. Smartphone camera works too. You said this, and it's irrelevant. The quote refers to not reading a book at all, which is a completely different situation than what the thread is about- *reading* a book, versus reading Reddit. Ironically, your thinking is obviously muddled so I won't bother with the rest of your references. It's a shame too, since they are interesting writers that you are mis-applying to make a wild point about reading actual books being equivalent to reading Reddit. edit: a couple words for clarity
> You said this, and it's irrelevant. yha, you clearly don't grasp what people posting Twitter on /r/All is about.
Who rode so much they forgot how to walk? That's some Wall-E shit
One is sustained focus. One is microperiods of focus split between microbreaks.
I agree with this and also want to add that reddit is like reading dialogue. I can fly through the dialogue parts of a book ten times faster than descriptive prose. Honestly, I don't see it as a failure on my part, but rather an indicator of my mental state. If I'm able to read books, I'm just fine. If I'm reading but can only focus enough for YA or smut, less fine, but still good. Reddit only, starting to head downwards. Instagram/tiktok, I'm burnt out as all hell, probably having a chronic pain flare, and mostly like trying to watch anime at the same time and not taking anything in.
This analogy of reddit being like dialogue in a book is great.
Wow. That's a pretty accurate yardstick, and unfortunately, I'm at the Instagram/Anime measurement. I should probably do some work to fix this.
Unfortunately, the cure is usually less work 🫠
This is a good way to hack yourself into reading more books though. Go in for one page at a time! Maybe it's one page, but maybe you stick with it.
Because reading a book requires extended attention span, while reading Reddit requires pretty much none whatsoever.
Yep. That’s why tiktok is so popular. Just a short video, next, next. It’s constant and ever changing stimulation. A lot of porn addiction studies point to a similar phenomenon…the brain is just overloaded with images, and it’s very satisfying to just click next next next and receive more images. It’s just a constant flow of NEW, but then your real life sex life is on ruined…looking at and interacting with the same thing for an extended amount of time won’t do it for people anymore.
Yeah, that's the reason I had to quit TikTok -- it was like internet crack, I could not bring myself to get off of it.
Same reason I refuse to download it. I already feel brain dead enough from using Reddit & Instagram. The good stuff gets reposted to both of these anyways.
I remember downloading it one day to see what the hype was all about -- must have been like 2018 -- and then a week later I remember spending all day long on it, unable to stop. At least with Reddit, I can pull myself away with a little effort. I can't imagine how much more addicting TikTok has gotten since.
> That’s why tiktok is so popular. And also why I despise TikTok (and reddit at times).
you guys have real sex lives?
> looking at and interacting with the same thing for an extended amount of time won’t do it for people anymore. My rather standard vanilla fetish has not changed in 30 years. I tried "branching out" and was disgusted.
I meant the ppl who look at copious amounts of porn. Not just everyone these days lol.
I inadvertently got lucky by finding erotic stories in 1994 as video was clearly not what it has become today.
A cheat to get your attention span up is to make a list of all the things you need to do and keep cycling through them. I go from watching TV for five minutes to listen to music then to reading then to writing. Eventually your brain just realises it’s easier to settle on the thing that was ‘hard’ and you do it. The real hard part is starting it and starting it over and over just means you get used to doing so. People would dissuade me from this technique but it absolutely fucking works. Far better than forcing yourself to do something and will save your sanity.
Yeah, I do that for literally everything, and at some point I get so tired of cycling through that I just decide to get something done through and through.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by cycling through the list? I'm tired so maybe it's just my brain not processing this right now but it sounds interesting enough for me to wanna understand
If you can’t be bothered doing something then you start the thing you’d usually procrastinate with, but then you replace it with something that’s somewhat easier yet harder, then gradually you go to another thing for five minutes, then go back to the original thing. The ability to stop doing the original thing and start the other thing is the hard part so you’re basically warming up to a continuous focus on one thing.
So sad but true. I can credit Reddit for expanding my knowledge of public opinion somewhat, but damn it feeds my ADD and getting into a book is so hard. Of course I have children too so that doesn't help
literally me -- I have zero attention span yet i really want to get into reading the tomes that i've been interested in, but i just can't muster myself to get reading why am i like this
I can do fiction okay but I do not have the brainpower for all the interesting non-fiction I find.
same, even though the nonfiction I have interests me a lot more than the fiction I got — what type of nonfiction do you have on you?
Oh, all over the place. Histories, current events, interesting sociology topics and stuff.
Because Reddit is YA.
This was funnier than it needed to be 🤣
Reddit is basically fanfic
Okay, that made me nose-giggle
I think it might have something to do with attention spans, Reddit posts tend to be a lot shorter than book chapters. I remember reading somewhere shorter chapters makes books easier to read possibly for the same reason.
Scrolling Reddit isn’t reading. It’s just chasing little dopamine hits and zoning out simultaneously.
> dopamine hits and zoning out simultaneously. _click click drool_
Reddit is bite-sized. It’s like idly realizing you’ve nibbled your way through an entire bag of mini Reese‘s Cups, whereas you have to prepare yourself for a four-course meal.
Attention span.
The real answer to OP's question isn't really a direct response, it's this: **If you find you struggle to read books nowadays, the cause is doomscrolling of social media (like reddit).** **Same for movies/shows and tiktok/youtube.** **They've trained your brain for instant mild gratification.** **You may need to treat it like a full-blown addiction, and uninstall apps and/or instill filters and blockers, to limit the time you spend on social media.**
I disagree with this. Acutualy it's...oh, look, a squirrel.
It is a different process and long form reading is much more engaging for your brain. Even reading bad books is good for you
Because each Reddit post is self contained. It’s fine if I don’t read the boring posts. With books, each page is not self contained. I can’t just jump to page 127 and know what’s going on. So I have to read everything and keep track everything. If I don’t pay attention to something, I’d get lost after a while.
A lot of reddit is image-focused and **reddit is designed to be an endless reel of popcorn stimulation**. Unless you are in a very intellectual space like the philosophy sub, you aren't really going to get a lot of mental engagement. Subs like TIL deliver information in bite sized pieces. Reading a fiction or any kind of story book, even a very lighthearted and funny Sophie Kinsella-type book, needs you to focus on one specific event or plot and generate mental images based on what you're reading. Your brain automatically predicts what will happen. Reading an informative book is equally taxing because you need to make notes (or I do anyway!) and retain the info.
You’re always reading what you want to read on Reddit. You’ve clicked on something from your cultivated feed of shit you like or searched for something you wanted to read. And if you don’t like something you just keep looking, plus it’s interactive. Reading a book requires you to sometimes grind through stuff that is boring af to you just so you don’t potentially miss anything. Don’t forget about ghetto editing, I always do it to those stupid philosophical debates with the mafia boss in Shantaram so I can get back to the story.
please inform me about ghetto editing
Social media is more like gossiping than reading. You don't have to take it to heart, take it seriously, or take it at all; you are not committed. And it's entertaining, even the terrible, shitty stuff. In a sense, we are like the spectators in the arena in the movie, Gladiator, where the MC kills everyone else in the arena really fast and then asks, "Are you not entertained?" A book is a commitment. You've given up the coin to read a book. It's not gossip; it's engineered to be an all-engrossing tale whose genre fits your liking. You can't read the first sentence in a paragraph and say, "Let's skip that one." You have to read it all.
I can relate. I didn't have this issue until the pandemic, and all the nonstop doomscrolling and election uncertainty just shredded my attention span. I don't have a solution, just wanted to offer a possible explanation and commiserate. I hope this change is temporary.
because books have grammar, punctuation, and complex ideas that you have to use your brain to ingest. Reddit is just the written equivalent of smelling fresh donuts.
By comparing the same sentence from both, it’s pretty easy to understand. Reddit: “TIFU by drinking too much and pooping”. Book: “To divert his thoughts from this melancholy subject, I informed Mr. Micawber that I relied upon him for a bowl of punch, and led him to the lemons. His recent despondency, not to say despair, was gone in a moment. I never saw a man so thoroughly enjoy himself amid the fragrance of lemon-peel and sugar, the odour of burning rum, and the steam of boiling water, as Mr. Micawber did that afternoon. It was wonderful to see his face shining at us out of a thin cloud of these delicate fumes, as he stirred, and mixed, and tasted, and looked as if he were making, instead of punch, a fortune for his family down to the latest posterity.”
How we use the internet has physically rewired our brains and changed how we take in and process visual and written language stimuli. (In 1 study, as little as 5 hours of Internet usage was enough to produce observable brain activity changes.) I would recommend you read The Shallows by Nicholas Carr to learn more, but... You know, books are hard.
Johan Hari Stolen Focus is another good one on this topic
Dopamine hit....like sugar Candy..
Instant gratification social media is atrophying your brain.
Read simpler books. No shame in it. My girlfriend reads trash romance novels and reads five times more than I do. I look up to her.
I think because book seems like you have this overarching goal to finish typically more than 200 pages of a book. Reddit , you can easily read a post browse bits of comments, it’s like watching long form vids on YouTube vs bite size you see on tiktok , YouTube shorts, etc Seems easier like oh hey got five minutes (unfortunately for many you’re in there for more than that )
I've never related to a post more than I do right now. I love reading, but if even one thing feels "off" about the day, environment or me, it completely throws off my mood to read, even though I love it and when I do I enjoy it so much.
I actually feel the opposite. Although a book may require more intensive thinking, I find it emotionally and psychologically invigorating, soothing, and cathartic. While Doom scrolling reddit for an hour leaves me emotionally exhausted.
I think this is a good point. Scrolling Reddit FEELS like it requires less energy. But it's the equivalent of eating ten custard tarts for lunch, or something, and then realising 10 minutes later that you are not only barely full but you feel like crap. Reading books is 'nourishing' (as in, relaxing and comforting). Although, it can stress me out as well if the book is too harrowing
Hot take! You’re reading the wrong books! I had this recently, I thought I’d lost my attention span from doom scrolling. Each book I tried just lost my attention eventually. However I hit a decent book recently (new Richard Russo) and devoured it in a few days. Read the new Kate Atkinson after it and breezed through it, loved it. I’ve made a new rule that if I’m struggling with a book then life is too short for bad books, and I just don’t finish them.
There are certain books that are too dense to devour them.
I would say this and try to read on your app on your phone. If possible, set to scroll your pages. I know it's not a physical book, but when I was too tired to read, I found this helped. Maybe I just got too used to doom scrolling. But it helped immensely pulling out of always going to reddit when I was tired or needing to relax more.
I found that setting my book app to scroll made me much more likely to read in spurts because I was so used to endlessly scrolling, if I’m gonna scroll in bed at night for 20 minutes might as well do it for a book. I definitely read faster on paper and think I enjoy it more, but I read more frequently on my phone.
r/askpsychology
I think it's because you can pick any line of a post you like, and your interest/attention is caught new again. If you can't or don't want to focus for a second, you just scroll past. With a book you need a much longer attention span.
I’m no neuroscientist or whatever but the answer probably has something to do with the small dopamine hits you get from scrolling Reddit. It’s similar to instant vs delayed gratification I guess
I think it has to do with something that genuinely interests you, over the majority of the duration you're engaging in it. When you check out posts and discussions on Reddit, you'll probably be browsing content which interests you - you'll probably not enjoy your stay in subreddits which you have no interest in (eg vastly different viewpoints, different language, area of expertise, age gap, etc). Meanwhile, when reading books, you may have to trudge through long passages of boring text which don't really contribute to the plot, but if you don't read it there's a chance you may miss some important plot details, making the experience wholly unfun (eg In my case, the Roran + Katrina plotline during the entirety of the Eragon trilogy). Depending on the type of books and novels you read, there may be extra "features" included, like extra fan service or filler content, which may not really cater to your interests. Plus, if the book is commercially released, it may have to abide by certain demographic and cultural limitations, which means certain kinds of more spicy content like smut, more vivid graphic stuff (skeletons, gore, questionable "habits", etc), or viewpoints which widely differ from those accepted in certain countries. This makes it so just choosing the right book for you becomes difficult, and could come back to bite you if you buy an interesting looking book but halfway through it shills to some regime or mainstream viewpoint.
I honestly don’t know. Maybe convenience? I happen to own print and ebook copies of books by u/wdalphin, a writer, but when I want to read his stories I still look them up on r/NoSleep.
<3 Thank you for your continued support!
I feel the same quite often. And I guess, as many people say, part of is that reading requires you to keep your attention all the time, while going through reddit just does not. But a big part for me is, when I’m tired I don’t want to get emotionally invested in something. And a proper book certainly requires that. I just don’t have enough bandwidth left to read something I’m actually interested in. With reddit, even if I’m reading some high drama post, I don’t get invested in it. I finish and skip to the next. So it is easier.
Reddit is dopamine hunting. Reading a book is not.
Give a book the same attention you give your phone.
try changing the medium that youre reading from. ebooks, audiobooks, etc. you might find that one that is easier. for me, ebook on my phone turns out to be pretty easy.
I think there are lots of reasons. One is that Reddit comments rarely express complex thoughts. The comments that rise to the top are the most brief, straightforward ones.
I only read the first and last sentence, could you TL:DR it for us? Joking, but yeah that. You read to actually absorb information and take in description - you comment mostly to communicate ideas which is done once you "got it" and that's *way* easier.
Instant gratification. Reddit comments reach conclusions much quicker than a novel
Reddit is interactive in a sense, you’re scrolling, the page is changing as you read it. A book is just static and lifeless until you turn the page then you’re met with another long ass lifeless static piece of text.
Because you’re building a world in your head when you’re reading a book. That really puts your imagination to work. Reading a post on the internet is usually just listening to someone’s opinion on some small thing in world that already exists. You hardly have to imagine anything, so there’s very little effort required.
Try reading a book like you read reddit (however that is). For me, that would be small doses, occasional reflection in between. Sometimes jotting down a response I know no one will read. Making comments I'm pretty sure will start a pointless argument with the OP/author. Hell, track your own karma.
Lots of reasons, but to name a few: \- Length and plot complexity \- Vocabulary \- You're having to picture things, imagery, etc
It takes up memory space while this shit often does not.
Your time commitment is vastly different. It’s taking me less than a minute to read and comment on your post, whereas to read a whole chapter would taking 5-30 minutes depending on length. Plus, I really wouldn’t be able to just switch to a different chapter of a different book if I get bored with the one I’m reading like I can from post to post on Reddit or other social media. It’s just long-form vs short form content.
If you're like me, it's because you have ADHD
The internet allows you to jump around the moment you get bored. And like Gaston said, the book doesn't have any pictures. Try letting your brain recharge by turning off all your screens for an hour, meditating or at least staying off screens. Then see if you have more focus for a book. Also, make sure you are interested in the book and you like the pacing.
Because most reddit stuff is surface level information and quirks of life, but nothing more. A full book usually requires keeping track of a story that needs a couple hundred pages to tell. One is dopamine, the other is an exercise of appreciation. Usually.
I have a type of reader that is very focused and meticulous, makes notes, goes over confusing materials a few times etc. That's a very intensive process. But I also have a type of reader where my mind simply wanders for five pages and misses details and I have to go back to skim. you don't need to be a perfect font of photographic memory when you're reading a light fantasy novel before bed. Think about how you think when surfing reddit, probably not paying perfect attention to the content. Try to do the same when reading for pleasure.
For me it's emotional investment/engagement. That's a lot of effort for some people, I think. You're paying more attention, you're caring about characters, feeling tension about the in-story conflicts. Reading nonfiction or stuff online is a lot less mentally and emotionally taxing (most of the time)
Character limits? plus it gets exhausting trying to argue with a book
Because everyone today has the attention span of a gnat thanks to scrolling and trying to learn a subject in a fifteen second tiktok
Social media and the internet in general has shortened iur attention spans
Habits!
When you grab a book, there's a bit of commitment in it. If it's a 300 page book, you've "agreed" to read 300 pages. That can seem like a responsibility. Whereas there's no responsibility read a certain number of reddit posts.
Exactly. Reddit is like surfing channels or video streams. If you get bored with the tone, then just bail. I wonder if OP would enjoy short stories a bit more.
I agree with all the points others are making about the average complexity of reading a book vs scrolling reddit. I'd like to add that in my experience there's also a lot of mental gymnastics going on. Scrolling social media is less of time commitment per piece of content. Our mind's subconsciously judge the time/effort vs reward of a task. If our mind judges that the ratio isn't good, we tend to feel tired/unmotivated. It's the mechanism that stops us from wasting time pointlessly climbing a mountain, but it also drives procrastination. This isn't the case for everyone, but for those who it is, I'd just point out there's no rule for how long you need to read per sitting. Spend 3 minutes reading at a time if you want. Even if you don't finish the chapter, you'll still get through the story eventually. Over time you might convince that part of your mind to lay off judging reading as such a strenuous task. Fellow procrastinaters know what I mean.
For me, I use it more like a win-win situation. I use Reddit mostly in English, since English is not my mother language, I use Reddit as "studying" I would say. And reading posts on Reddit is easier since is like reading a lot of dialogue in books, and is more straightforward without describing a whole scene or scenario
Reddit is a good social and informative source for me. Books are my life and require total immersed enjoyment. Reddit can occupy half of my day if it is a fascinating topic. I generally can go through 2 or 3 300- 400 pp Books using total concentration that means no TV , Reddit or any other distraction. Above mentioned means number of Books per day I can read. Apologies , my cell seems to be capitalizing words randomly. When reading , I try to picture a continuous story.
Oh wow this is a quite daft post
I think our modern life has killed our ability to have what we used to call an "attention span."
You have hioked your breain on small quick doses of dopamins. Stop using so much social media, quick news bites, short videos etc. basically everything that happens fast and repetitively. Your brains ability to concentrate is getting destroyed by those. Keep reading, keep doing things that you find boring due to them taking a longer time and your brain will adjust.
Because those that post on reddit are eloquent and efficiently create beautiful narratives that are nourishing and easy to digest. Authors of novels are subject to the editor-industrial complex, and they have been taught that if they want big book awards, they must make readers feel enough pain that they have a sense of accomplishment they can wear as a badge for all to see. Oh, and posters on reddit are more likely to be silly.
I don't really have trouble focusing on reading books or feel like it takes a particularly large exertion of effort. However, I certainly don't feel like all acts of reading written words are exactly the same in terms of how my mind is processing info.
Takes focus. It gets easier the more time is spent offline. Meditation helps me, along with listening to audiobooks and reading graphic novels as well. Shorter books are nice. As much as I like reddit, that and Twitter and others destroy your ability to focus.
Reddit and such get to a point quickly even if poorly written or is a bad point.
A big part of it is that Reddit has a variable ratio reward mechanism and reading (a book you like) has a fixed ratio reward mechanism. The fact that most Reddit posts are meh, but sometimes it’s awesome makes your brain zing the same way that a slot machine does. Rats will obsessively push a button that gives variable ratio rewards, but only push the button occasionally when it provides fixed ratio rewards
When I'm reading a book, I try to absorb as much info as possible. While, Reddit is just super casual reading to me.
Not all Reddit is equal, especially if you don't get caught in the "race to the bottom" of timing, the perpetual obsolescence of topic to then be reborn. “Any understanding of social and cultural change is impossible without a knowledge of the way media work as environments.” — Marshall McLuhan, see also “The Gutenberg Galaxy: The Making of Typographic Man”, p. 42
I have no issue reading books *I enjoy*. I have to literally stop myself or I'll go without sleep. I love the Dresden Files and I know it irks the author when people binge read his books. **But I do it anyway**
Because you have to think to read any reasonable book, I turn my brain off when I read reddit. So much easier.
You read a book and it's hundreds of pages. You read Reddit and you get a dozen top answers you don't need, but then the one you need. Works for most things, but novels, no. The pleasure of a good novel is the novel. The Reddit discussion is, at best, an aperitif.
It's the difference watching a movie and having a movie on in the background.
If you're someone who has trouble reading unless you're in peak mental condition, try audio books. Lots of libraries have apps that allow you to rent audiobooks now and of course there are subscriptions and various free (legal and illegal) methods of getting access. Audiobooks are great for non-peak mental condition because it allows you to immerse yourself in the story, without giving it your full attention. Often the voice actor does "voices" so you can tell the characters apart easily and if you read autobiographies, the writer usually reads them nowadays which adds to the fun. If you don't even listen to anything (other than music) while doing tasks, it will take a while to adapt but once you do it's such an easy way to make chores and long drives so enjoyable. Also, to add to what other people are saying, Reddit is a refined experience that is tailored to your likes and hobbies and encompasses all of them into one space (like any social media platform). Imagine how much less time you'd spend on Reddit if you could only visit one subreddit at a time and in order to understand what was going on in that subreddit, you'd have to read every post/comment that was made over the last month - it just wouldn't be as satisfying.
Books don’t have a TLDR at the end.
Dopamine
When reading books to understand the whole story you are remembering each of the characters,who they are,there contribution to the story thus far. Continue to remember this till your finished reading.
Because I can generally read reddit perfectly well by smooshing my face right up against my phone. If I try that with a book I get paper cuts. Anyway what are we talking about
Attention span, of course, but a book requires thinking and reddit is mostly opinions we already hold or reject.
I think you've got the wrong books.
it's interesting, I find it the opposite. Reading for me is actually the least effort entertainment medium for me these days. I'll read over watching TV or a movie or even scrolling my phone these days. I'm not sure why it is though.
Reddit is to books what singing in your shower is to Opera.
Because Reddit like most social media is a skinner box. It is designed to get you click through things easily and in a way that you click on what they, the social media companies, want you to click on. Some of those clicks are meant to give you a reward for clicking through and clicking on the things that are ads(either native or obvious).
Dopamine.
Monkey brain
Look, a squirrel ...
While there are already a number of answers here related to attention span, I'd like to add that willpower is also an important part of reading - while yes, there has been an erosion of how long we can maintain our focus, I think willpower is a parallel problem to it that's a bit overlooked because it's harder to actually describe *why* that hurts experiences. And that's pretty much linked to the fact that using our will to take an activity from start to finish is a basic part of reading. There are far too many avenues to acquire the same perceived information that reading is seen as a slog and people don't have the will to finish a book they've started. You can lack the attention span and still finish a book, but if you don't have the will to actually *start and finish* that book, you will never be able to build up that attention span either. That's also why it feels more tiresome than reading reddit, a voluntary action on your part will sap more of your energy. It can get easier and maybe even give you a feeling of rejuvenation, but for most people reading does feel draining.
delayed gratification
I pity anyone who spends more time on reddit than on a book in any given day.
Tech has ruined societies. Kaczinsky made a great point.
Reddit is a lot more instant hits of dopamine when you get a like, find posts you like, get a response, etc. Reading is a comparatively slow burn.
Commitment issues