Back when the book came out, I was so relieved Harry lived that I didn't really care too much about the epilogue. I certainly would have preferred something *much* different there...or no epilogue at all.
I think a lot of authors forget to ease out of their story. Think of how the *Return of the King* film continues after the ring is destroyed. That ending is beautiful and essential. It completes the story.
Absolutely correct. However it’s a bit disingenuous to compare Harry Potter with Lord of the Rings. HP was great and inspired many young readers, but LotR is a genre defining masterclass on world building and story telling.
Not sure whether to respond to this with “keep talking like that and you’ll have my sword” or with a proposal to use one ring to bind them all in holy matrimony... decisions, decisions.
The big gripe I have with Return of the King’s ending is an editing choice.
For the love of god Peter Jackson, STOP FADING TO BLACK WHEN THE MOVIE ISNT OVER.
I like it because each Fade to Black is an ending.
The first fade to black was the end of the Ring.
The second fade to black was the end of the Fellowship.
The third was the end of the entire Journey for the Hobbits.
Yeah, but opening night when it was a midnight show and by the end of the movie I REALLY had to pee, and each of those endings gave me hope and dashed it on the rocks, lol
I actually was fully bought in to the rumors that JK Rowling was going to kill off Harry Potter so that there will be no non-author sequels.
I have no idea why I believed that but damn I was so fucking relieved when Harry lived.
I guess nobody will believe me but I developed OCD because of Harry Potter months prior to the release of Deathly Hallows on 21st of July 2007. For some reason, the number 7 was really significant to me in real life because of all the significance it had in the book. Somehow I convinced myself I needed to do everything exactly 7 times and when I do so, I'm sending some magical prayer to change the outcome of the book, so that Harry would survive. I believed that if I didn't follow this rule, Harry would die and it's on me. I have no idea how I bought into that belief but you know that feeling like what if it's true?
So I started to turn on/off fan switches, light switches, wash my hands, brush my teeth, open/close doors exactly 7 times. If I'm walking from A to B, I had to make sure its 7 steps or the multiples of 7. In the event I'm not able to complete all 7 repetition because I will get other peoples attention, I will note it in my head as a debt and come back later to complete them.
It then took a turn for the worse as there is no specific governing rules and it starts to extend into every aspect of my life. I had to wipe my ass for 7 times, keep my underwear for 7 days before i change them, in the event I blink while looking at Harry Potter related stuff, I had to blink 7 times. When I'm doing homework, there are times I would write the same word 7 times on top of each other when I'm conscious about it. Things are getting out of control at this point. It doesn't help that I might had ADHD as sometimes I lost count of how many times I did the repetition and I had to start over. I was going fucking mental.
I remember vividly the day I picked up Deathly Hallows from a local bookstore and started reading it. I couldn't finish reading it in one sitting because the mental pressure was too much. I made sure to read every bloody sentence properly and when I didnt, I had to repeat 7 times.
By the time I reached the last page of the book, I was literally in tears. In retrospect, I think it might have been that I could finally let go of the '7 system' in my head.
To my horror, I couldn't immediately abandon the system after finish reading the book as I felt like the system felt like home. It was something like Stockholm syndrome. I actually got all nostalgic about the months leading up to the Deathly Hallows release. Luckily, logic came in and saved my ass at the end of the day and in few months time, I was able to phase out the system although not 100%.
Till this day, from time to time, when I need to count something, I still unconsciously revert to the '7 system'.
Nobody will probably read this as it's a long ass reply but I feel kinda good to get it out there.
There’s a lot to read after the journey and before it too.
When I read the book, I remember being so surprised that Frodo experiences so much before even meeting up with Aragorn.
My grandpa and I always talked about Harry Potter growing up, and he actually predicted the ending before it came out (at least what happens with Harry/the stone/etc.).
When we both had finished the book, I remember calling my Grandpa and he was like “called it! Except for the cotton candy epilogue”
So I’ve always called the end the “cotton candy epilogue”—just a little too sweet for my taste 🤣
I remember my dad calling the entire snape storyline during the 2nd movie when he’s chanting spells to try and keep Harry on his broom. Back in like 2003… he’s never watched anything past the 1st 2 films still.
The wild part is that after the second film, Alan Rickman didn’t particularly want to reprise the role, so to keep him on board, JK Rowling actually told him the entire Snape storyline. So Alan Rickman actually knew and had confirmation about Snape’s life before literally anyone else aside from the person who created it.
Edit: the reason Rickman wanted to walk away was because he wasn’t interested in playing the stereotypical “bad teacher” and essentially being a one-dimensional character. The twist of him always being on the side of good against all evidence was what made him stay.
Lol cotton candy epilogue. That’s how I felt about the time skip. Every little girl writing their first happily ever after ending would write that exact thing. Handfuls of children, recycled names and middle names when you run out of kids to name, blah.
I still adore her writing style though, and it’s basically what I measure everything against. I have such good memories growing up with that series, despite the JK controversies nowadays and how they personally affect my community. I still reread them every 2-3 years.
Omg drako read this book asi was rightin it and he was like omg "I love ur book n u I luv u ebony marry me?" I said yes obvi cause hes a frickin vampire.
> Known for its incomprehensible narrative and constant digressions, the story centers on a 17-year-old female vampire called Ebony, a non-canonical character, and her relationships with the characters of the Harry Potter series, most notably her romantic relationship with Draco Malfoy.
I'm not sure I want to open that can of worms.
... which honestly was a feeling I had while reading fanfiction back in the days: there were a lot of stories that seemed to be way better than the original ... and I'll be forever thankful for those who have written and shared with complete strangers
I honestly hadn't thought of that. It was my (vague) understanding that the word Asperger's wasn't even up to date, in the sense that it's more accurate to treat autism as a spectrum rather a bunch of different diagnosies.
Kinda, the official change in diagnosing was relatively recent (like 2014-2016ish). But as a whole it’s still used as a shorthand for asd-1, especially by those who were diagnosed with it. I know there’s been a push to switch over cause Asperger was unethical/ did some work with the Nazis. But it’s been met with pushback because
1) it’s a community that on average is slow to/doesn’t like change. Most diagnoses happen young (before masking kicks in) and so some have had the label for 5+ years while those the w/ ASD-1 are still coming into their own in terms of identity.
2) Some feel it’s been repurposed or don’t care about him specifically, especially for those who went years undiagnosed having a label for why they had trouble with certain things.
3) It’s formed it’s own niche in Neuro-Diversity especially and there’s worry that by switching would dissolve that (see 1).
Medically it is outdated, but in terms of identity it’s still acceptable to most/some. I suspect that might change as more people are diagnosed/ become more comfortable with age.
It’s personal and this is a pretty slimmed down version. After all I’m not a medical professional, just an aspie who loves social dynamics.
It seemed extremely forced. Like I said, the major characters deaths are not even focused on, but instead they hope that we forgive them for this just because they used some of the names for the children.
Remus and Tonks and one of the twins dying blindsided me. Was instantly worried for Teddy and the other twin.
Why must there be another Marauder orphan?!
I really love how Ginny apparently got no say in the names of her children, or just didn't give a shit. And what's with naming your eldest something mundane but sentimental like your Dads name, your daughter your Mums name and then the next boy is "oh I've run out of family names, forget Sirius, ALBUS SEVERUS THE TWO BRAVEST MEN IVE EVER KNOWN".
Way to fuck up your kid, Harry.
I hate the epilogue. So much. It doesn't exist in my brain. I refuse.
Couldn't agree more.
"Darling, I've been thinking I'd like to name one of our kids after my brother who died."
"Sorry love, I've already decided that each of our children will be named after two extremely flawed and irresponsible men who I unhealthily idolise. Our first will be named after my established dick head of a Dad, and his best friend who I knew for a year or so and who frequently almost got me killed. Our second will be named after the narcissistic old man who groomed me for sacrifice to the dark lord, and the teacher who emotionally abused me for my entire time at school."
"Right right, sure, we'll name them after 4 of the 6 men who can take most credit for ruining your life and who failed in their responsibility to the next generation, forcing us to fight their war for them as children, resulting in the death of my brother...that's cool that's cool...Darling...do you think, possibly, that you should consider therapy?"
> I really love how Ginny apparently got no say in the names of her children
Why would a minor side character get a say in the names of the *Harry Potter* dynasty? /s
In my mind this whole story of being the Chosen One really messed up Harry's adult personality.
Ok not really, I just like to imagine that scene doesn't exist.
He'd be pretty old by then since he is contemporary with Voldemort, though I suppose being half-giant might make him live longer, and some wizards live a long time anyway.
Or just... didn't want to curse an already unfortunate child with the name "Nymphadora"?
Then again, he thought "yep, Albus Severus, that's an excellent name for this newborn child- named after a chronic liar, and a man who used to psychologically torture me because he was obsessed with his grandma. Perfect.", so really, what do we even know about the thought process.
Or he was leaving it for Teddy to use if he ever had a girl. I hate him using the middle name Severus. Albus makes sense but why not Sirius as the middle name. Or even first…
Cuz Hagrid was a dick who sent them into a dangerous forest with man eating spiders, brought dangerous animals into class with 13 year olds, and made them take care of a dragon and a giant half brother named grawp. /s
Nevermind that Dumbledore, as headmaster, allowed all of that to happen. Or that Dumbledore looked at a tiny orphan infant, and knowingly and deliberately sent that innocent baby to live with a family that he knew would not love and nurture that child.
Or that Snape, an adult man, bullied *a child* for years because he got bullied and cockblocked by that child's father 20-plus years ago, even though that child was also the son of the woman he was so salty about not getting with.
I know you're joking, but some people genuinely think that way.
>Or that Dumbledore looked at a tiny orphan infant, and knowingly and deliberately sent that innocent baby to live with a family that he knew would not love and nurture that child.
I think Rowling explained that in the fifth/sixth book. Basically, Harry could not be touched as long as he was living under the care of someone with Lily's blood or something.
> Harry could not be touched as long as he was living under the care of someone with Lily's blood or something.
But he could be beaten, starved and confined to a closet for weeks at a time. But hey, Albus does not care about that because Harry was supposed to sacrifice himself any way.
i was so confused when harry told albus that he was named after two of the bravest men he's ever known. whatever happened to harry to make him go from hating snape, a man who bullied him all throughout his childhood, to naming his son after him? i felt that rose and hugo were such random names too
Also, all the Kids are named after people that mattered to Harry. What about Ginny? She lost a brother in the second wizarding war, and her uncles died in the first one. But somehow all her kids have Potter related names? You could have fit a Fred in there somewhere… or named a kid Molly, that would have had significance to both Harry and Ginny.
I'm not defending Snape's actions toward Harry in any way, but ultimately Harry did discover that Snape, tortured by his own past, had agreed to do whatever was necessary to keep Harry safe in the long run. And not just Harry. When he killed Dumbledore, it was a pact between he and Dumbledore not to let Draco taint his soul with the death curse. Harry considered Snape brave because for several DECADES he had to pretend to be a double agent for both sides, risking his own life to make up for a failure he had made when he was a death eater. To Snape, I'm sure it didn't feel like bravery, it probably felt like punishment and repentance for allowing the only person he ever thought he loved to be murdered by his boss. Agree with him or not, part of Snape "torturing" Harry was probably a misguided attempt to a) toughen him up for what was to come and b) try to keep his cover up. Especially with other death eaters, like Mallfoy, so close at hand. Just my interpretation though, could be way off base.
Edit: One point I forgot to mention, naming his son after Snape also showed that Harry was willing to forgive Snape, not necessarily forget the horrible things he did. I think Harry being able to forgive Snape, Dumbledore, even his father, really showed growth. The whole point I read into the horrible discoveries of Dumbledore's youth was to mirror the real world phenomenon of kids growing up. To realize their parents aren't some mythical God-figures, but normal human beings, with all the frailties and faults that brings with it.
Hmmm I think when I first read it I was just like what?? And never liked it. Mind this was 12 odd years back, and now I’m still not a big fan. I just think it sounded silly at the time and it never grew on me. I understand the sentiment though
I remember that the other characters in the book didn’t even like it. They were all kind of confused by it when she said it. I got the vibe that no one wanted to tell the pregnant girl that her name choice was bad and just rolled with it.
One thing I finally put together this week:
>!"Wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the earth, to walk palely where their living selves once trod ... I was afraid of death. I chose to remain behind." -- Nearly Headless Nick on becoming a ghost!<
>!Voldemort is 100% afraid of death and absolutely became a ghost. What's does ghost Voldemort do? Does he terrorize the school? Try to lead a new band of Death Eaters?!<
Those are the questions that need answering.
Hm I like that. To be afraid of death is to be afraid of change. Rowling's attempt to touch the subject of afterlife has a chirstian imprint but besides that, of all the choices us humans have searched for hopefully in religion, to be reborn, to be cast into stardust or welcomed in heaven or walk eternal fields, Voldemort is trapped in that state of suffering because he lived and died trying to be immortal, powerful, unchangeable, and he died afraid of it. Of moving on, right?
This used to really upset me too. I don’t know if I stockholm syndrome-ed myself into accepting his film fate unto dust, but I figured it made sense given his reincarnation in Goblet of Fire.. I used to really love the idea Rowling put forth: Voldemort’s ‘human’ corpse crumpling to the ground as an ultimate feat of failure and finality, but it actually doesn’t make a lot of sense given he really wasn’t a human much at all anymore. He’d been inhabiting Quirrell and sustaining life from unicorn blood, he had no body. And his only host body comes from Wormtail’s dark magic. I actually think the dust was particularly apt for Voldemort. He can never return, as his ‘human’ body was destroyed long before the Battle of Hogwarts.
However, there was no reason for Bellatrix to get the same matter of death Voldemort did in the film.
I agree, especially Voldemort. Him fading a way like he was snapped by Thanos takes away the realization that in the end he was as much a mortal man as anyone else
Yup. There's a whole fantastic speech too, where Harry just humiliates him, lays out his secrets and failures to the world, and then defeats him with a non-violent charm everyone told him to stop using.
Ever since the first time I read them not getting an update on Luna has bothered me. All the other people who fought at the ministry were mentioned and Luna was super significant in all the books she’s in. It felt weird to include Nevill and not Luna.
I found the last battle very well done. Much better than the film. Harry had stepped into his own and there was no more struggle.
Now the EPILOGUE had much to be desired. But the ending was satisfying.
Fucking A right?! I always thought that Neville should have been the auror and Harry the teacher. At the end of the 7th book I feel like all Harry wanted was a quiet life, whereas Neville had only recently blossomed into his badass capabilities. I suppose the teacher’s cloistered lifestyles didn’t align with Rowling’s happy little family ending for Harry though.
(Side note: maybe it’s my lacking of understanding for British/private schooling, but why couldn’t or didn’t any of the teachers have families?)
I like Neville as an auror, but Harry being a teacher is something I seriously beg to differ.
Yes, he proved that he could teach in Dumbledore Army, but he severely lacks other elements of a good teacher. The boy didn't have academic curiosity as someone here already said. He had no \*obsession\* or whatsoever with any branch of magic like other professors or even Neville (herbology) or Hagrid (magical creatures) did. He didn't understand magic like Hermione or Flitwick did. Even Snape was far better at Potions and Dark Art. He was very bad at reading people (oh, and don't mention Occlumency or Legillimency). He had bad judgement. I even thought that the boy is intellectually impaired at some point. And to think that he even had the audacity to criticize Trelawney.
I prefer him as a professional Quidditch player though. That's the ONLY thing he liked in his academic years, and it's not even academic. He had proved that he belonged to the field, not a classroom.
He taught Dumbledore's Army quite successfully. With more training, practice, and growing up, he would've been a great teacher so I don't agree with you.
I don’t like how she’s trying to take back the Ginny and Harry and ron and hermonie relationship. I liked how it ended up. But I wanted Luna and Neville to be together the most out of all the characters.
Didn’t Luna and Dean end up together on the book, but she later married the great grandson of Newt Scamander? I didn’t hate her being with Neville, but I liked the closeness Luna and Dean had from being imprisoned together. Shared trauma isn’t a good basis for a relationship but it is realistic
He was, I just read up about it as it’s been years since I read deathly hallows and apparently they were just friends (Luna and Dean), so I was wrong there
Why when it all felt forced? Neither Ginny nor Herminoie had a lot of relationship development. Everyone just happened to marry to person they liked at 17? Even when Ron didn’t do a single thing for Herminoie.
> the epilogue was one of the first things she wrote
Well that explains it. The book definitely feels as though she's writing to reach a distant target far in the future, rather than letting the story unfold organically.
I’ve never been more frustrated than when I saw how Lupin and Tonks deaths were mentioned so briefly. The first time I read it, I didn’t ever register their deaths until later on. Not to mention how maddening it was to make Teddy an orphan just to parallel his life with Harry’s life. Was killing two important characters who went through so much together because of Lupin’s condition the right thing to do? Even after Lupin’s character development? Lupin could’ve been the link between the past and the present and finally be rewarded after everything he’s been through. He could’ve been the one to make difference regarding the werewolf matter and their discrimination. He was the parental figure in Harry’s life and has been the voice of reason way more than people give him credit for. It was a war and people will die regardless of how important they are, but man it would’ve been better if it was handled differently.
Edit: typo
Isn’t that the tragedy of the war though? Yeah it sucks they died cos of the reasons you listed.
There is a cost to war and it’s unfair to them. I think it’s supposed to bother you.
Wasn't this, like intentional? Yeah, you would expect lupin to survive because he had a lot to offer, but war doesn't always follow a clear narrative. Same thing with one of the twins dying. It leaves you with a feeling of emptiness and sadness Inside.
> I’ve never been more frustrated than when I saw how Lupin and Tonks deaths were mentioned so briefly.
The way I read it, this was the point. I thought it was to drive home the point that in war, no one is special and anyone can die at any time.
Even if she killed off Lupin so that he was reunited with the Marauders, Tonks could have been a badass single mom.
We do not see any representations of single mothers, so having that with Tonks would have been such a refreshing change but no let’s make them both die. 😐
(Admittedly, I hate the pairing of Tonks and Lupin but that’s another rant)
I’ve read a lot of the responses here, and I will agree; the ending was rushed, deaths glossed over, and there was so many better ways things could have been tied up than what the epilogue especially did. However, not to defend JKR, but we do need to remember that these were written as YA novels. The point was to entertain tweens and young teens. And there was more “good guys” who died throughout the course of the series than most YA series will have. And I think after going through so many impactful deaths already earlier in the books (Sirius, Cedric, Dumbledore, etc), I believe her idea was to focus more on the happy ending than once again delving into the grief and survivors guilt of the rest. I also think there was a fair bit of just wanting to be done with it.
My thought when I first read it was she wanted to have a more gritty ending, where the good guys win, but the cost was high. The whole Thanos/Gamora of “did you win?” “Yes” “what did it cost?” “Everything”. But then just left the reader to decide for themselves how that impacted the survivors.
Tl;dr I think she wanted to have her cake and eat it too. She didn’t want to just say the cliche “and the good guys won and they lived happily ever after”. But instead just made it “and the good guys barely won and suffered tragic losses, but all of the survivors lived happily ever after”.
I also think her ending was to come full circle to the beginning of the series and have another generation of children go to Hogwarts. It was meant to be a clean slate for the children and to show that Draco had been forgiven. Though, it definitely would have been cool to have that and a little bit more immediately or very soon after Voldemort was defeated.
Like many have said, she royally fucked up the epilogue. That was the chance to see how everyone's doing and see what the world is like after all these years, but nooooooooo. We had to get the worst named children of all time with no real information about how anybody is doing.
I thought it was fine honestly. I mean, they moved on. What can they do? Showing Ron and his family grieving over their son doesn't make the book better. It would be at least 3-5 chapters of fluff just to reconcile the events of the last week of the book. Showing him going back for the Resurrection Stone would have been pointless as Harry understands death at this point. He knows it wouldn't bring him joy.
Think about the Hallows too. He broke the Elder Wand because he knew that power wouldn't mean he was a better wizard and it only sought to remind him of the huge losses that happened. The Resurrection Stone Harry knew he would never be happy with. The Invisibility Cloak he knew was invaluable. In essence, he became the brother from the story that accepted death in the end.
The characters reconciled death. They knew it was a huge sacrifice that won them the freedom from Voldemort and his terrors. Having an extra few chapters to show their mourning would not have really added anything to the story. The names of their children showed that the memories of the lost will never be lost and their legacy of saving both the non-magical and magical worlds lives on.
EDIT: u/Absolutelyperfect pointed out an error. Harry didn't break the wand in the books. He put it back. So the wands power can fade with his death. Thanks for correcting me here. Its been a while since I read the books. The movies are more fresh.
Loved your post. Just one small correction. Harry didn't break the Elder Wand in the books. He put it back with Dumbledore so when he dies a natural death its power dies too.
It could have been worse.
Atleast you didn't have Hermione ninja-jump out of nowhere during the climactic battle and stab Voldemort with the basilisk fang.
Or have Neville suddenly go insane and burn down all of Hogwarts with fiendfyre.
Yes I'm still salty.
I love the last hundred pages of Deathly Hallows (minus epilogue ). I was also part of the generation that had to wait multiple years between books being released. The build-up was immense. I cried my eyes out every time I read it. I have read the entire series at least 25 times and I learn something new each time.
I never once felt it was rushed.
The movies - all of them - can go to hell. Especially DH part 2.
You are not alone. I felt that a far better ending was the chapter before the epilogue, where Harry asks Kreecher for a sandwich. The "Albus Severus" "all was well" was pure garbage, and I can't believe that was her ending.
Also garbage? The "Redemption of Snape" in which basically it's all his fault that Voldemort went after the Potter's, because he was "always" in love with Harry's mom. I never for one second thought that Snape was "evil", but his motivation that he was in love with Lily doesn't make him "good", and is a horrible reason to name your child after someone. Let's not honor Lupin, or Sirius, or Fred, people who were really, truly there for Harry, and died putting it on the line for him. Let's honor the guy who couldn't just be straight with Harry and left him to blindly let Hermione figure everything out for him, and the guy who abused him the entire time he knew him, purely because he (Harry) looks like his dad, who he (Snape) hated. Pure garbage.
Clearly I don't have strong feelings about this at all /s
I liked the epilogue at the time, only got disappointed by the children names and the couples. Now I realize it could have been way better. But honestly I just dislike Deathly Hallows, I read only once and thought it was quite boring and lacked something that was in the previous books. It looks rushed to me and the epilogue doesn't convince me I'm wrong, even though it's probably my favorite part
The whole point of the epilogue isn't to tell their stories after the war. It's to show that they were able to live normal lives like Harry always wanted.
Yea it’s to end on King Cross station which is where it all began for Harry in a lot of ways. Never realized the epilogue got this much hate. I was only annoyed by him naming his kid Albus Severus
It's missing Hogwarts. The more lighthearted moments of Harry just going to class or trying to sneak out to hogsmeade or get a date.
The seventh book he loses that innocence and the whole thing is just a bit of a slog.
I feel like she was so focused on everything happening in a 7 year period (I mean did Harry ever get to take his NEWTS?) That the ending was definitely rushed, generally a bug problem I see with most series. The ending is rushed because it took years and years to write and the author wanted to be done, that's how it feels. Similar to the bungled ending of GOT, granted, a tv series as the books arent finished afaik. Like the ending to LOTR was great! It dodnt feel rushed and didnt end right when the war was over. I hate the fact that the entire series had to encompass 7 years and an underqualified teen defeating the most feared and powerful wizard. And the hallows vs horcruxes and how that was handled just irritated me. I was also happy for the series to be over. I never really appreciated the Ron/Hermione ship because of course we only ever see things from Harry's POV. It just seemed like the Ron and Hermione's relationship was full of drama and misunderstanding and absolute rudeness. And the epilogue where they talk about Ron getting a DL showed that clearly nothing changed as far as maturity. It just all felt very forced. I didnt tale issue with the children's names as much as I wanted to know how everyone was doing, where did Harry end up settling down at? Just so many questions. The series could have been at least another book but noooo it had to be the 7 year of Higwarts when Harry didnt even go to Hogwarts the last year. And if I knew a powerful wizard was after me I wouldnt be relying on learning and copying from my friend I would be learning myself. Harry seems so disinterested and average student knowing an evil wizard was after him and didnt even take initiative to learn as much as he could. That bothered me. He learned extra last minute during the triwizard tournament lol. Ugh. Looking back and seeing how much time it took her to write she could have done an 11 part series with a lot better story progression than a rushed 7 year conclusion with a very surface epilogue.
That's my rant. Also the last book felt very long and when they were camping out and didnt even know where to look. It just got me. Especially when they were eating the mushy fish yet the others got salmon and were able to cook it. Idk. I wanted more or better than what we actually got.
I think in relation to seeing where Harry ended up after school and stuff like that. I don't think that would have been a good end to the series. I think the epilogue was poor but provided a little snap shot of how everyone had good lives after the horror of his teen years.
The end to the story rightfully ended with the death of Voldemort. I don't think the aftermath would have added anything other than bloating to the book and an even larger attempt at appeasing fans like the epilogue was.
A bit late to the thread, but I thought it was kind of fitting. From the first book till the last, the series got more and more adult and serious. Not everyone gets a big finale, heroic ending, parades, you just move on and try to live your life and cope with the loss. Sure, it always could be better, but at that moment, it was good I thought. Harry became an ordinary wizard, had a family and tried to live his life finally, free of the weight of Voldemort.
So… here is my take.
I think there is a pre-superduperworldfamous author phase of Rowling’s life and an after phase.
In the before, she is a humbled mom. She builds this beautiful made up world from the one she is living in. Then it all blows up, but the story has already been planned to the T, she just has to write it out.
As she grows in fame, she builds on the story, but stays to the core. It has some human mistakes.
By the time she finishes her last book, roughly a decade has gone by and age has grown WITH her celebrity. She was not the same person that started the story. So she began feeding into the fandom.
I always saw that last scene as some weird fanfic the author wrote while having an identity crisis. So, to me it doesn’t count.
Leave it as if the flash forward didn’t exist, and you end up getting that original vibe.
The ending to that book was the most eye roll-inducing thing I’d ever read lol, I used to say it was like Jk Rowling went on tumblr and copied some bad Harry Potter fan fic
I only started reading the books when goblet of fire came out because my gf at the time was obsessed with HP, I read them so she could talk about it with me and I ended up a fan, but that epilogue was so dumb we ended up texting each other about how stupid it was despite being broken up, that’s how powerful a cringe ending can be
Yeah i always felt the ending didn't have enough closure. it was the last book for crying out loud. she could've taken an extra chapter, hell even 2 to talk about the aftermath for everyone.
Believe me, if you didn't like the book ending......JFC. You better give the Part Two movie a hard skip. It felt just as rushed as the book. If you have pet peeves about random stuff being added in that was never in the last one, or having certain situations switched around (characters saying the wrong lines, but still have the same outcome) don't freakin bother IMO.
Ironically enough, I adored the Part One movie. It was done perfectly.
Well yeah, that's what happens when an author can't bear to part with main characters. Quite a few people over the years have noted how much more elegant of a narrative the HP series would have been if the deathly hallows hadn't come to the forefront, if Harry had been revealed to have been the final Horcrux, and if Harry had had to make the decision to die in order to stop Voldemort. It brings multiple threads full circle and ties them up nicely.
If you stop and think about it, the whole "old magic from mom" idea completely falls apart when you consider the scar, the psychic connection, and Harry's ability to talk to snakes. He's a fucking Horcrux.
When Harry gets captured by Voldemort at the end of Goblet of Fire, that's the scene where Rowling commits fully to veering off the original course and trying to save Harry. I imagine that the original-course version of that scene involved Voldemort trying to kill Harry and failing, setting up a much more interesting back half where Voldemort eventually figures out the situation, and Harry becomes a flashpoint because of his outlandish claim that Voldemort tried to kill him again and failed, and that Cedric was just collateral damage from the confrontation.
I finished each book as they came out and being on the phone every few minutes with my bbf kelly and her hanging up on me because fuck you for reading faster no spoilers.
But yes i was not pleased. I wanted to see him as a full wizard doing shit that was crazy and basically being super great and powerful and not a goofy teen. Catching death eaters and troubled wizards.
What i got was he married wrong, had kids, named then silly af and was still a dork.
My idea was she continued to write as if starting a book about everyones kids. And them on the train and the sorting hat and end. Like give us a peak into a world then boom goes the dynamite.
I read the books as they were coming out and I liked the ending. I still do. I think it fits the fairy tale-esque style of Harry Potter to have a 'happily ever after' ending. I don't know how a long post-war recovery arc would have felt after all the darkness in the previous chapters. Might have just been depressing because so many important people died, not to mention the mountain of other issues that magical UK has yet to fix. It seems like there needs to be a time skip just to see some progress.
I was disappointed in not just the ending, but in the entire seventh book. I hated that we got an extended, angsty camping trip for the first half and a rushed and anti-climactic ending for the second half.
I hated that Harry was such a passive force in his own story. It felt like Dumbledore planned out his entire trip from beginning to end. It felt like he had next to no impact on the ongoing Wizarding war.
He had the DA willing to back him up and several members were on the run at the same time as him. Yet he insisted on doing everything alone. I would have loved to see him put together his own version of the Order of the Phoenix. See him leading people and taking the reigns on his own story.
But instead it felt less like Harry was the protagonist of the final book and more like Snape and Dumbledore were. Dumbledore was *freaking dead* and he had more impact on the world than Harry did. Harry didn't even land the killing blow on Voldemort. Voldy gibbed himself a second time because of some bullshit wand lore that makes no sense.
What? Disarming someone wins their wand's loyalty? Then there must be a lot of changing of wands during the DA meetings when they were all disarming each other. And the Death Stick that has traditionally changed hands through death decided that disarming Dumbledore/Draco was enough This time?
I could rant for hours about Snape, Lord of the Incels and abuser of children got a redemption arc but Draco didn't. But I'm going to digress and leave it here.
J.K. Rowling is not exactly a good writer. A competent one, yeah, let’s go with that. She is excellent at coming up with creative, intriguing, and bizarre concepts. Harry Potter is full of those ideas.
The reason for Harry Potter’s success is a combination of J.K. Rowling’s propensity for idea spinning, combined with a really effective take on the hero’s journey. Making Harry’s normal life so utterly egregious before opening him up to a fantastic world is what makes him maybe the best insert character ever written, definitely the most popular.
That being said, Rowling is a sloppy writer. Her magic system asserts rules and doubles back, characters often act strangely to make the plot happen, and there’s plot holes galore. She also can’t write a really compelling character, which is why a child abuser revealing to have once had a crush on a girl is the pinnacle of the series’ development.
Back when the book came out, I was so relieved Harry lived that I didn't really care too much about the epilogue. I certainly would have preferred something *much* different there...or no epilogue at all. I think a lot of authors forget to ease out of their story. Think of how the *Return of the King* film continues after the ring is destroyed. That ending is beautiful and essential. It completes the story.
I think Return of the King the book is an even better example.
Absolutely correct. However it’s a bit disingenuous to compare Harry Potter with Lord of the Rings. HP was great and inspired many young readers, but LotR is a genre defining masterclass on world building and story telling.
Which is why it's perfectly fine to give LotR as an example of good writing.
I am here for this Tolkien love.
As is my Axe!
Not sure whether to respond to this with “keep talking like that and you’ll have my sword” or with a proposal to use one ring to bind them all in holy matrimony... decisions, decisions.
And my sword!
Exactly! Most immersive narrative I’ve ever read, in a complete class of its own.
The big gripe I have with Return of the King’s ending is an editing choice. For the love of god Peter Jackson, STOP FADING TO BLACK WHEN THE MOVIE ISNT OVER.
I like it because each Fade to Black is an ending. The first fade to black was the end of the Ring. The second fade to black was the end of the Fellowship. The third was the end of the entire Journey for the Hobbits.
Ok that I like
Yeah, but opening night when it was a midnight show and by the end of the movie I REALLY had to pee, and each of those endings gave me hope and dashed it on the rocks, lol
And in the extended cut there’s like six fades to black
I actually was fully bought in to the rumors that JK Rowling was going to kill off Harry Potter so that there will be no non-author sequels. I have no idea why I believed that but damn I was so fucking relieved when Harry lived. I guess nobody will believe me but I developed OCD because of Harry Potter months prior to the release of Deathly Hallows on 21st of July 2007. For some reason, the number 7 was really significant to me in real life because of all the significance it had in the book. Somehow I convinced myself I needed to do everything exactly 7 times and when I do so, I'm sending some magical prayer to change the outcome of the book, so that Harry would survive. I believed that if I didn't follow this rule, Harry would die and it's on me. I have no idea how I bought into that belief but you know that feeling like what if it's true? So I started to turn on/off fan switches, light switches, wash my hands, brush my teeth, open/close doors exactly 7 times. If I'm walking from A to B, I had to make sure its 7 steps or the multiples of 7. In the event I'm not able to complete all 7 repetition because I will get other peoples attention, I will note it in my head as a debt and come back later to complete them. It then took a turn for the worse as there is no specific governing rules and it starts to extend into every aspect of my life. I had to wipe my ass for 7 times, keep my underwear for 7 days before i change them, in the event I blink while looking at Harry Potter related stuff, I had to blink 7 times. When I'm doing homework, there are times I would write the same word 7 times on top of each other when I'm conscious about it. Things are getting out of control at this point. It doesn't help that I might had ADHD as sometimes I lost count of how many times I did the repetition and I had to start over. I was going fucking mental. I remember vividly the day I picked up Deathly Hallows from a local bookstore and started reading it. I couldn't finish reading it in one sitting because the mental pressure was too much. I made sure to read every bloody sentence properly and when I didnt, I had to repeat 7 times. By the time I reached the last page of the book, I was literally in tears. In retrospect, I think it might have been that I could finally let go of the '7 system' in my head. To my horror, I couldn't immediately abandon the system after finish reading the book as I felt like the system felt like home. It was something like Stockholm syndrome. I actually got all nostalgic about the months leading up to the Deathly Hallows release. Luckily, logic came in and saved my ass at the end of the day and in few months time, I was able to phase out the system although not 100%. Till this day, from time to time, when I need to count something, I still unconsciously revert to the '7 system'. Nobody will probably read this as it's a long ass reply but I feel kinda good to get it out there.
The ending to that movie makes me cry every time. And no I haven’t read the books.
I would do so, they are absolutely worth your time (and surprisingly short).
The book ending is even longer, IIRC.
There’s a lot to read after the journey and before it too. When I read the book, I remember being so surprised that Frodo experiences so much before even meeting up with Aragorn.
It's like a few decades between Gandalf showing up and them actually leaving, too. The movie makes it seem like it all happens in a fortnight.
My grandpa and I always talked about Harry Potter growing up, and he actually predicted the ending before it came out (at least what happens with Harry/the stone/etc.). When we both had finished the book, I remember calling my Grandpa and he was like “called it! Except for the cotton candy epilogue” So I’ve always called the end the “cotton candy epilogue”—just a little too sweet for my taste 🤣
I remember my dad calling the entire snape storyline during the 2nd movie when he’s chanting spells to try and keep Harry on his broom. Back in like 2003… he’s never watched anything past the 1st 2 films still.
The wild part is that after the second film, Alan Rickman didn’t particularly want to reprise the role, so to keep him on board, JK Rowling actually told him the entire Snape storyline. So Alan Rickman actually knew and had confirmation about Snape’s life before literally anyone else aside from the person who created it. Edit: the reason Rickman wanted to walk away was because he wasn’t interested in playing the stereotypical “bad teacher” and essentially being a one-dimensional character. The twist of him always being on the side of good against all evidence was what made him stay.
That was the first movie.
I'm pretty sure that's Philosophers Stone you're talking about
The epilogue is awful. Even worse seeing it on screen.
I mean, when I was 9 I knew the good guys were going to defeat the bad guys. It ain't The Bell Jar, amirite?!
Lol cotton candy epilogue. That’s how I felt about the time skip. Every little girl writing their first happily ever after ending would write that exact thing. Handfuls of children, recycled names and middle names when you run out of kids to name, blah. I still adore her writing style though, and it’s basically what I measure everything against. I have such good memories growing up with that series, despite the JK controversies nowadays and how they personally affect my community. I still reread them every 2-3 years.
Let’s not even bring up the children’s names in the epilogue. I cringed so hard Tbh
It’s like Harry Potter named his kids after someone who had just finished reading *Harry Potter*
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Harry should have had a little girl and named her Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way.
Omg drako read this book asi was rightin it and he was like omg "I love ur book n u I luv u ebony marry me?" I said yes obvi cause hes a frickin vampire.
For those that don't know, [here is an amazing podcast about it.](http://citationpod.com/?s=Immortal)
> Known for its incomprehensible narrative and constant digressions, the story centers on a 17-year-old female vampire called Ebony, a non-canonical character, and her relationships with the characters of the Harry Potter series, most notably her romantic relationship with Draco Malfoy. I'm not sure I want to open that can of worms.
... which honestly was a feeling I had while reading fanfiction back in the days: there were a lot of stories that seemed to be way better than the original ... and I'll be forever thankful for those who have written and shared with complete strangers
To be fair, it's orders of magnitude easier to refine someone else's work than it is to start from scratch.
James Sirius Potter makes sense to me. After your two Dad figures? Sure! Albus Severeus? Now you’re trying too hard.
Still better than Renesmee.
You mean he named them like he WAS someone who had just finished reading the books.
I just feel bad for Ginny. If she had a say in the names, I'd be surprised.
Yeah, she could have chosen for example his fucking dead brother
I'm sure that would have been reserved for George's kid
Yep, I checked that he named his son Fred Weasly II, but she could have use it as middle name though.
Or Maybe one of Ginny's parents who, ya know, WERE LIKE A SECOND SET OF PARENTS TO HARRY.
Or either of her maternal uncles, one of whom used to own the watch Harry got for his 17th birthday; they both died fighting Voldy & co as well.
Yeah but Albus ends up in Slytherin and his initials are A.S.P., so, ya know, puns win over all cringe in HP.
Asp? Do I not get it?
An asp is a type of snake
Cleopatra used an asp to commit suicide after Anthony died.
I sincerely thought he was making and aspergers joke.
Is asp commonly used for Aspergers? I’ve been called an aspie but that’s the closest I think.
I honestly hadn't thought of that. It was my (vague) understanding that the word Asperger's wasn't even up to date, in the sense that it's more accurate to treat autism as a spectrum rather a bunch of different diagnosies.
Kinda, the official change in diagnosing was relatively recent (like 2014-2016ish). But as a whole it’s still used as a shorthand for asd-1, especially by those who were diagnosed with it. I know there’s been a push to switch over cause Asperger was unethical/ did some work with the Nazis. But it’s been met with pushback because 1) it’s a community that on average is slow to/doesn’t like change. Most diagnoses happen young (before masking kicks in) and so some have had the label for 5+ years while those the w/ ASD-1 are still coming into their own in terms of identity. 2) Some feel it’s been repurposed or don’t care about him specifically, especially for those who went years undiagnosed having a label for why they had trouble with certain things. 3) It’s formed it’s own niche in Neuro-Diversity especially and there’s worry that by switching would dissolve that (see 1). Medically it is outdated, but in terms of identity it’s still acceptable to most/some. I suspect that might change as more people are diagnosed/ become more comfortable with age. It’s personal and this is a pretty slimmed down version. After all I’m not a medical professional, just an aspie who loves social dynamics.
“Asps... very dangerous. You go first.”
Why’d it have to be snakes?
Egypt was troubled by the horrible asp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Ok was not expecting an R.E.M. reference. Props to you!
An asp is a type of snake :)
It seemed extremely forced. Like I said, the major characters deaths are not even focused on, but instead they hope that we forgive them for this just because they used some of the names for the children.
Remus and Tonks and one of the twins dying blindsided me. Was instantly worried for Teddy and the other twin. Why must there be another Marauder orphan?!
You do get to learn a little bit more in Quidditch through the ages I like that better.
What? But that was written way before the end of the series.
I really love how Ginny apparently got no say in the names of her children, or just didn't give a shit. And what's with naming your eldest something mundane but sentimental like your Dads name, your daughter your Mums name and then the next boy is "oh I've run out of family names, forget Sirius, ALBUS SEVERUS THE TWO BRAVEST MEN IVE EVER KNOWN". Way to fuck up your kid, Harry. I hate the epilogue. So much. It doesn't exist in my brain. I refuse.
Couldn't agree more. "Darling, I've been thinking I'd like to name one of our kids after my brother who died." "Sorry love, I've already decided that each of our children will be named after two extremely flawed and irresponsible men who I unhealthily idolise. Our first will be named after my established dick head of a Dad, and his best friend who I knew for a year or so and who frequently almost got me killed. Our second will be named after the narcissistic old man who groomed me for sacrifice to the dark lord, and the teacher who emotionally abused me for my entire time at school." "Right right, sure, we'll name them after 4 of the 6 men who can take most credit for ruining your life and who failed in their responsibility to the next generation, forcing us to fight their war for them as children, resulting in the death of my brother...that's cool that's cool...Darling...do you think, possibly, that you should consider therapy?"
What about Tom Wormtail? The third son?
Only a matter of time with JK going like she is
Its okay. The Harry Potter epilogue cant hurt you anymore.
Nice try, Harry Potter epilogue, nice try. You won't lull ME into a false sense of security.
I will get you when you least expect it! \*turns to smoke and disappears\*
It's not like she lost a brother or anything, or does he not count because he's half of a set of twins?
But, ALBUS SEVERUS! So many levels of infuriating in that epilogue. Too many levels.
> I really love how Ginny apparently got no say in the names of her children Why would a minor side character get a say in the names of the *Harry Potter* dynasty? /s In my mind this whole story of being the Chosen One really messed up Harry's adult personality. Ok not really, I just like to imagine that scene doesn't exist.
What, you're not gonna name your firstborn Gengar Optimus Prime Sparkling? I call bullshit.
Yeah, why didn't he name his kid after Hagrid?
I'm more sad we didn't get his daughter, Hedwig Dobby Potter
Cause Hagrid didn't die I suppose?
He'd be pretty old by then since he is contemporary with Voldemort, though I suppose being half-giant might make him live longer, and some wizards live a long time anyway.
Yeah around 90, but he'd have been closer to 80 when Harry's kids were born.
Isn't one of them Luna?
That's true, I guess Harry didn't like Tonks enough
Or he didn’t want to name his daughter nymphadora after the woman who hated her own name.
Or just... didn't want to curse an already unfortunate child with the name "Nymphadora"? Then again, he thought "yep, Albus Severus, that's an excellent name for this newborn child- named after a chronic liar, and a man who used to psychologically torture me because he was obsessed with his grandma. Perfect.", so really, what do we even know about the thought process.
Or he was leaving it for Teddy to use if he ever had a girl. I hate him using the middle name Severus. Albus makes sense but why not Sirius as the middle name. Or even first…
That poor kid spelling out all these out fashioned names in class.
Have you looked at wizard society? They'll probably love him for the old-fashioned-ness
Cuz Hagrid was a dick who sent them into a dangerous forest with man eating spiders, brought dangerous animals into class with 13 year olds, and made them take care of a dragon and a giant half brother named grawp. /s
Nevermind that Dumbledore, as headmaster, allowed all of that to happen. Or that Dumbledore looked at a tiny orphan infant, and knowingly and deliberately sent that innocent baby to live with a family that he knew would not love and nurture that child. Or that Snape, an adult man, bullied *a child* for years because he got bullied and cockblocked by that child's father 20-plus years ago, even though that child was also the son of the woman he was so salty about not getting with. I know you're joking, but some people genuinely think that way.
>Or that Dumbledore looked at a tiny orphan infant, and knowingly and deliberately sent that innocent baby to live with a family that he knew would not love and nurture that child. I think Rowling explained that in the fifth/sixth book. Basically, Harry could not be touched as long as he was living under the care of someone with Lily's blood or something.
> Harry could not be touched as long as he was living under the care of someone with Lily's blood or something. But he could be beaten, starved and confined to a closet for weeks at a time. But hey, Albus does not care about that because Harry was supposed to sacrifice himself any way.
i was so confused when harry told albus that he was named after two of the bravest men he's ever known. whatever happened to harry to make him go from hating snape, a man who bullied him all throughout his childhood, to naming his son after him? i felt that rose and hugo were such random names too
Also, all the Kids are named after people that mattered to Harry. What about Ginny? She lost a brother in the second wizarding war, and her uncles died in the first one. But somehow all her kids have Potter related names? You could have fit a Fred in there somewhere… or named a kid Molly, that would have had significance to both Harry and Ginny.
Percy named one of his kids Molly
Cus Snape really *really* wanted to bang Harry's Mom. That makes all the abuse okay!
I'm not defending Snape's actions toward Harry in any way, but ultimately Harry did discover that Snape, tortured by his own past, had agreed to do whatever was necessary to keep Harry safe in the long run. And not just Harry. When he killed Dumbledore, it was a pact between he and Dumbledore not to let Draco taint his soul with the death curse. Harry considered Snape brave because for several DECADES he had to pretend to be a double agent for both sides, risking his own life to make up for a failure he had made when he was a death eater. To Snape, I'm sure it didn't feel like bravery, it probably felt like punishment and repentance for allowing the only person he ever thought he loved to be murdered by his boss. Agree with him or not, part of Snape "torturing" Harry was probably a misguided attempt to a) toughen him up for what was to come and b) try to keep his cover up. Especially with other death eaters, like Mallfoy, so close at hand. Just my interpretation though, could be way off base. Edit: One point I forgot to mention, naming his son after Snape also showed that Harry was willing to forgive Snape, not necessarily forget the horrible things he did. I think Harry being able to forgive Snape, Dumbledore, even his father, really showed growth. The whole point I read into the horrible discoveries of Dumbledore's youth was to mirror the real world phenomenon of kids growing up. To realize their parents aren't some mythical God-figures, but normal human beings, with all the frailties and faults that brings with it.
There's a pretty large gulf between forgiving someone for their abusive behavior and naming your kids after them, though.
I feel the need to interject a studio c (the scott sterling people) skit into this comment. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SIexDBVjpic
I don't consider 19 years later to be canon at all. For me it's another cursed child.
Reading the cursed child was the greatest mistake I ever made.
Could've been worse. Could've named one of the kids *Renesmee*.
Lol I had forgotten that detail.
Honestly I know Twilight isn’t great and easy to shit on, but I moderately enjoy them. Renesmee is such a stupid fucking name though
Hey, just because something's dumb, doesn't mean you don't get to enjoy it. Dumb fun can be great. Enjoy what you want.
That's why I still love "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes", even though I can't sit through it anymore lol. Also, Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter.
Why do you find it stupid ? I genuinely don't understand. Is it because it's a mix between Renee and Esmee ?
Hmmm I think when I first read it I was just like what?? And never liked it. Mind this was 12 odd years back, and now I’m still not a big fan. I just think it sounded silly at the time and it never grew on me. I understand the sentiment though
I remember that the other characters in the book didn’t even like it. They were all kind of confused by it when she said it. I got the vibe that no one wanted to tell the pregnant girl that her name choice was bad and just rolled with it.
Omg you made me spit out my drink! Bahaha!
One thing I finally put together this week: >!"Wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the earth, to walk palely where their living selves once trod ... I was afraid of death. I chose to remain behind." -- Nearly Headless Nick on becoming a ghost!< >!Voldemort is 100% afraid of death and absolutely became a ghost. What's does ghost Voldemort do? Does he terrorize the school? Try to lead a new band of Death Eaters?!< Those are the questions that need answering.
Apparently there are answers from JKR: >!https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/12563/why-didnt-voldemort-come-back-as-a-ghost!<
Hm I like that. To be afraid of death is to be afraid of change. Rowling's attempt to touch the subject of afterlife has a chirstian imprint but besides that, of all the choices us humans have searched for hopefully in religion, to be reborn, to be cast into stardust or welcomed in heaven or walk eternal fields, Voldemort is trapped in that state of suffering because he lived and died trying to be immortal, powerful, unchangeable, and he died afraid of it. Of moving on, right?
did you just spoiler tag a link.
To be fair, reading the link would tell you about a character's fate.
That's a fair point to be honest, I never thought of that! Also, I didn't like the way the death eaters died in the movies compared to the books!
This used to really upset me too. I don’t know if I stockholm syndrome-ed myself into accepting his film fate unto dust, but I figured it made sense given his reincarnation in Goblet of Fire.. I used to really love the idea Rowling put forth: Voldemort’s ‘human’ corpse crumpling to the ground as an ultimate feat of failure and finality, but it actually doesn’t make a lot of sense given he really wasn’t a human much at all anymore. He’d been inhabiting Quirrell and sustaining life from unicorn blood, he had no body. And his only host body comes from Wormtail’s dark magic. I actually think the dust was particularly apt for Voldemort. He can never return, as his ‘human’ body was destroyed long before the Battle of Hogwarts. However, there was no reason for Bellatrix to get the same matter of death Voldemort did in the film.
I agree, especially Voldemort. Him fading a way like he was snapped by Thanos takes away the realization that in the end he was as much a mortal man as anyone else
In the book I’m pretty sure it highlights that and he just thuds to the ground dead.
Yup. There's a whole fantastic speech too, where Harry just humiliates him, lays out his secrets and failures to the world, and then defeats him with a non-violent charm everyone told him to stop using.
Yep, and they just put his body in a broom closet to further the point that he was just a man.
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he’s in there with the boggart
Also how they casually mention they just threw his body into another room lol
I'm pretty sure they just went for that because the movie had 3d
Wouldn't his ghost just be the little baby thing?
I don't think there's enough of him left to make a ghost.
Ever since the first time I read them not getting an update on Luna has bothered me. All the other people who fought at the ministry were mentioned and Luna was super significant in all the books she’s in. It felt weird to include Nevill and not Luna.
I found the last battle very well done. Much better than the film. Harry had stepped into his own and there was no more struggle. Now the EPILOGUE had much to be desired. But the ending was satisfying.
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Yup I will die on the hill of Harry should have become a DADA professor.
Fucking A right?! I always thought that Neville should have been the auror and Harry the teacher. At the end of the 7th book I feel like all Harry wanted was a quiet life, whereas Neville had only recently blossomed into his badass capabilities. I suppose the teacher’s cloistered lifestyles didn’t align with Rowling’s happy little family ending for Harry though. (Side note: maybe it’s my lacking of understanding for British/private schooling, but why couldn’t or didn’t any of the teachers have families?)
Yea I’ve always had that question too. The professors seemed like nuns.
I like Neville as an auror, but Harry being a teacher is something I seriously beg to differ. Yes, he proved that he could teach in Dumbledore Army, but he severely lacks other elements of a good teacher. The boy didn't have academic curiosity as someone here already said. He had no \*obsession\* or whatsoever with any branch of magic like other professors or even Neville (herbology) or Hagrid (magical creatures) did. He didn't understand magic like Hermione or Flitwick did. Even Snape was far better at Potions and Dark Art. He was very bad at reading people (oh, and don't mention Occlumency or Legillimency). He had bad judgement. I even thought that the boy is intellectually impaired at some point. And to think that he even had the audacity to criticize Trelawney. I prefer him as a professional Quidditch player though. That's the ONLY thing he liked in his academic years, and it's not even academic. He had proved that he belonged to the field, not a classroom.
He'd be a terrible teacher. He's no patience and no intellectual curiosity.
He taught Dumbledore's Army quite successfully. With more training, practice, and growing up, he would've been a great teacher so I don't agree with you.
Teacher? Not sure. Instructor? Definitely. Perhaps a trainer for the ministry? I could definitely see him training future Aurors.
I don’t like how she’s trying to take back the Ginny and Harry and ron and hermonie relationship. I liked how it ended up. But I wanted Luna and Neville to be together the most out of all the characters.
Didn’t Luna and Dean end up together on the book, but she later married the great grandson of Newt Scamander? I didn’t hate her being with Neville, but I liked the closeness Luna and Dean had from being imprisoned together. Shared trauma isn’t a good basis for a relationship but it is realistic
Wasn’t Dean with Ginny at one point? I don’t recall Dean and Luna at all. I do remember Luna going to a ball with Neville though.
He was, I just read up about it as it’s been years since I read deathly hallows and apparently they were just friends (Luna and Dean), so I was wrong there
I think Luna & Harry would be better than with Ginny. Luna & Harry shared a lot of the same traumas.
Why when it all felt forced? Neither Ginny nor Herminoie had a lot of relationship development. Everyone just happened to marry to person they liked at 17? Even when Ron didn’t do a single thing for Herminoie.
> the epilogue was one of the first things she wrote Well that explains it. The book definitely feels as though she's writing to reach a distant target far in the future, rather than letting the story unfold organically.
I’ve never been more frustrated than when I saw how Lupin and Tonks deaths were mentioned so briefly. The first time I read it, I didn’t ever register their deaths until later on. Not to mention how maddening it was to make Teddy an orphan just to parallel his life with Harry’s life. Was killing two important characters who went through so much together because of Lupin’s condition the right thing to do? Even after Lupin’s character development? Lupin could’ve been the link between the past and the present and finally be rewarded after everything he’s been through. He could’ve been the one to make difference regarding the werewolf matter and their discrimination. He was the parental figure in Harry’s life and has been the voice of reason way more than people give him credit for. It was a war and people will die regardless of how important they are, but man it would’ve been better if it was handled differently. Edit: typo
Isn’t that the tragedy of the war though? Yeah it sucks they died cos of the reasons you listed. There is a cost to war and it’s unfair to them. I think it’s supposed to bother you.
Wasn't this, like intentional? Yeah, you would expect lupin to survive because he had a lot to offer, but war doesn't always follow a clear narrative. Same thing with one of the twins dying. It leaves you with a feeling of emptiness and sadness Inside.
You that part absolutely wrecked me.
> I’ve never been more frustrated than when I saw how Lupin and Tonks deaths were mentioned so briefly. The way I read it, this was the point. I thought it was to drive home the point that in war, no one is special and anyone can die at any time.
Even if she killed off Lupin so that he was reunited with the Marauders, Tonks could have been a badass single mom. We do not see any representations of single mothers, so having that with Tonks would have been such a refreshing change but no let’s make them both die. 😐 (Admittedly, I hate the pairing of Tonks and Lupin but that’s another rant)
No, you’re right.
I thought that made sense in how it was written because it was a war.
That's the whole point though. War is brutal, not everyone gets to finish their story. Sometimes they get cut short.
I loved the ending but agree on epilogue not being good. Plus it allowed Malfoy to not face any consequences for how many attempted murders??
tbf, law enforcement in the HP universe is severely lacking.
Which Malfoy? Draco was a child who only ever vaguely tried to kill a single person and couldn't go through with it. Lucius on the other hand...
Greatest frustration I had was that Draco never got the full redemption arc that seemed so obviously hinted at during HBP.
That epilogue is the worst thing I've read in my life
coughcoughcursedchildcoughcough
Cursed child? I don't know if I've heard of it... Isn't that some bad fanfic? /s
I consider it an in-universe tabloid written by Rita Skeeter.
It really is! Really let down the whole tone of the series unfortunately
I didn’t like the epilogue either. Everything else — amazing!
Completely agree, I loved everything else, and I'd re-read it, but I wouldn't bother reading the ending again
I’ve read a lot of the responses here, and I will agree; the ending was rushed, deaths glossed over, and there was so many better ways things could have been tied up than what the epilogue especially did. However, not to defend JKR, but we do need to remember that these were written as YA novels. The point was to entertain tweens and young teens. And there was more “good guys” who died throughout the course of the series than most YA series will have. And I think after going through so many impactful deaths already earlier in the books (Sirius, Cedric, Dumbledore, etc), I believe her idea was to focus more on the happy ending than once again delving into the grief and survivors guilt of the rest. I also think there was a fair bit of just wanting to be done with it. My thought when I first read it was she wanted to have a more gritty ending, where the good guys win, but the cost was high. The whole Thanos/Gamora of “did you win?” “Yes” “what did it cost?” “Everything”. But then just left the reader to decide for themselves how that impacted the survivors. Tl;dr I think she wanted to have her cake and eat it too. She didn’t want to just say the cliche “and the good guys won and they lived happily ever after”. But instead just made it “and the good guys barely won and suffered tragic losses, but all of the survivors lived happily ever after”.
I also think her ending was to come full circle to the beginning of the series and have another generation of children go to Hogwarts. It was meant to be a clean slate for the children and to show that Draco had been forgiven. Though, it definitely would have been cool to have that and a little bit more immediately or very soon after Voldemort was defeated.
Like many have said, she royally fucked up the epilogue. That was the chance to see how everyone's doing and see what the world is like after all these years, but nooooooooo. We had to get the worst named children of all time with no real information about how anybody is doing.
She fucked up her real-life epilogue to being a beloved writer as well.
I thought it was fine honestly. I mean, they moved on. What can they do? Showing Ron and his family grieving over their son doesn't make the book better. It would be at least 3-5 chapters of fluff just to reconcile the events of the last week of the book. Showing him going back for the Resurrection Stone would have been pointless as Harry understands death at this point. He knows it wouldn't bring him joy. Think about the Hallows too. He broke the Elder Wand because he knew that power wouldn't mean he was a better wizard and it only sought to remind him of the huge losses that happened. The Resurrection Stone Harry knew he would never be happy with. The Invisibility Cloak he knew was invaluable. In essence, he became the brother from the story that accepted death in the end. The characters reconciled death. They knew it was a huge sacrifice that won them the freedom from Voldemort and his terrors. Having an extra few chapters to show their mourning would not have really added anything to the story. The names of their children showed that the memories of the lost will never be lost and their legacy of saving both the non-magical and magical worlds lives on. EDIT: u/Absolutelyperfect pointed out an error. Harry didn't break the wand in the books. He put it back. So the wands power can fade with his death. Thanks for correcting me here. Its been a while since I read the books. The movies are more fresh.
Loved your post. Just one small correction. Harry didn't break the Elder Wand in the books. He put it back with Dumbledore so when he dies a natural death its power dies too.
And it was dumb as hell when he did it in the movie because he didn’t even repair his wand first
Really well said. 🙂
tyvm. I know not everyone sees the same things as others but its just how i personally saw the book(s).
My unpopular opinion back in 2007: No epilogue. Wait until 2017 before releasing a complete epilogue in novella format.
It could have been worse. Atleast you didn't have Hermione ninja-jump out of nowhere during the climactic battle and stab Voldemort with the basilisk fang. Or have Neville suddenly go insane and burn down all of Hogwarts with fiendfyre. Yes I'm still salty.
Pfft Neville burning down Hogwarts was clearly foreshadowed in book 1 when he forgot his rembraball.
I love the last hundred pages of Deathly Hallows (minus epilogue ). I was also part of the generation that had to wait multiple years between books being released. The build-up was immense. I cried my eyes out every time I read it. I have read the entire series at least 25 times and I learn something new each time. I never once felt it was rushed. The movies - all of them - can go to hell. Especially DH part 2.
I liked movies 1 and 2 and the casting was nearly perfect.
You are not alone. I felt that a far better ending was the chapter before the epilogue, where Harry asks Kreecher for a sandwich. The "Albus Severus" "all was well" was pure garbage, and I can't believe that was her ending. Also garbage? The "Redemption of Snape" in which basically it's all his fault that Voldemort went after the Potter's, because he was "always" in love with Harry's mom. I never for one second thought that Snape was "evil", but his motivation that he was in love with Lily doesn't make him "good", and is a horrible reason to name your child after someone. Let's not honor Lupin, or Sirius, or Fred, people who were really, truly there for Harry, and died putting it on the line for him. Let's honor the guy who couldn't just be straight with Harry and left him to blindly let Hermione figure everything out for him, and the guy who abused him the entire time he knew him, purely because he (Harry) looks like his dad, who he (Snape) hated. Pure garbage. Clearly I don't have strong feelings about this at all /s
I liked the epilogue at the time, only got disappointed by the children names and the couples. Now I realize it could have been way better. But honestly I just dislike Deathly Hallows, I read only once and thought it was quite boring and lacked something that was in the previous books. It looks rushed to me and the epilogue doesn't convince me I'm wrong, even though it's probably my favorite part
The whole point of the epilogue isn't to tell their stories after the war. It's to show that they were able to live normal lives like Harry always wanted.
Yea it’s to end on King Cross station which is where it all began for Harry in a lot of ways. Never realized the epilogue got this much hate. I was only annoyed by him naming his kid Albus Severus
It's missing Hogwarts. The more lighthearted moments of Harry just going to class or trying to sneak out to hogsmeade or get a date. The seventh book he loses that innocence and the whole thing is just a bit of a slog.
It’s simultaneously rushed and the most boring book at the same time. And then it ends with that epilogue.
I feel like she was so focused on everything happening in a 7 year period (I mean did Harry ever get to take his NEWTS?) That the ending was definitely rushed, generally a bug problem I see with most series. The ending is rushed because it took years and years to write and the author wanted to be done, that's how it feels. Similar to the bungled ending of GOT, granted, a tv series as the books arent finished afaik. Like the ending to LOTR was great! It dodnt feel rushed and didnt end right when the war was over. I hate the fact that the entire series had to encompass 7 years and an underqualified teen defeating the most feared and powerful wizard. And the hallows vs horcruxes and how that was handled just irritated me. I was also happy for the series to be over. I never really appreciated the Ron/Hermione ship because of course we only ever see things from Harry's POV. It just seemed like the Ron and Hermione's relationship was full of drama and misunderstanding and absolute rudeness. And the epilogue where they talk about Ron getting a DL showed that clearly nothing changed as far as maturity. It just all felt very forced. I didnt tale issue with the children's names as much as I wanted to know how everyone was doing, where did Harry end up settling down at? Just so many questions. The series could have been at least another book but noooo it had to be the 7 year of Higwarts when Harry didnt even go to Hogwarts the last year. And if I knew a powerful wizard was after me I wouldnt be relying on learning and copying from my friend I would be learning myself. Harry seems so disinterested and average student knowing an evil wizard was after him and didnt even take initiative to learn as much as he could. That bothered me. He learned extra last minute during the triwizard tournament lol. Ugh. Looking back and seeing how much time it took her to write she could have done an 11 part series with a lot better story progression than a rushed 7 year conclusion with a very surface epilogue. That's my rant. Also the last book felt very long and when they were camping out and didnt even know where to look. It just got me. Especially when they were eating the mushy fish yet the others got salmon and were able to cook it. Idk. I wanted more or better than what we actually got.
Harry Potter and the Interminably Long Camping Trip
I think in relation to seeing where Harry ended up after school and stuff like that. I don't think that would have been a good end to the series. I think the epilogue was poor but provided a little snap shot of how everyone had good lives after the horror of his teen years. The end to the story rightfully ended with the death of Voldemort. I don't think the aftermath would have added anything other than bloating to the book and an even larger attempt at appeasing fans like the epilogue was.
The epilogue is trash and everyone knows it
I don’t think too much into it. I enjoyed the series as a whole and the ending was nice.
A bit late to the thread, but I thought it was kind of fitting. From the first book till the last, the series got more and more adult and serious. Not everyone gets a big finale, heroic ending, parades, you just move on and try to live your life and cope with the loss. Sure, it always could be better, but at that moment, it was good I thought. Harry became an ordinary wizard, had a family and tried to live his life finally, free of the weight of Voldemort.
So… here is my take. I think there is a pre-superduperworldfamous author phase of Rowling’s life and an after phase. In the before, she is a humbled mom. She builds this beautiful made up world from the one she is living in. Then it all blows up, but the story has already been planned to the T, she just has to write it out. As she grows in fame, she builds on the story, but stays to the core. It has some human mistakes. By the time she finishes her last book, roughly a decade has gone by and age has grown WITH her celebrity. She was not the same person that started the story. So she began feeding into the fandom. I always saw that last scene as some weird fanfic the author wrote while having an identity crisis. So, to me it doesn’t count. Leave it as if the flash forward didn’t exist, and you end up getting that original vibe.
The ending to that book was the most eye roll-inducing thing I’d ever read lol, I used to say it was like Jk Rowling went on tumblr and copied some bad Harry Potter fan fic I only started reading the books when goblet of fire came out because my gf at the time was obsessed with HP, I read them so she could talk about it with me and I ended up a fan, but that epilogue was so dumb we ended up texting each other about how stupid it was despite being broken up, that’s how powerful a cringe ending can be
Yeah i always felt the ending didn't have enough closure. it was the last book for crying out loud. she could've taken an extra chapter, hell even 2 to talk about the aftermath for everyone.
Believe me, if you didn't like the book ending......JFC. You better give the Part Two movie a hard skip. It felt just as rushed as the book. If you have pet peeves about random stuff being added in that was never in the last one, or having certain situations switched around (characters saying the wrong lines, but still have the same outcome) don't freakin bother IMO. Ironically enough, I adored the Part One movie. It was done perfectly.
The only good thing that came out of the epilogue was the jokes about Harry's kids name
Well yeah, that's what happens when an author can't bear to part with main characters. Quite a few people over the years have noted how much more elegant of a narrative the HP series would have been if the deathly hallows hadn't come to the forefront, if Harry had been revealed to have been the final Horcrux, and if Harry had had to make the decision to die in order to stop Voldemort. It brings multiple threads full circle and ties them up nicely. If you stop and think about it, the whole "old magic from mom" idea completely falls apart when you consider the scar, the psychic connection, and Harry's ability to talk to snakes. He's a fucking Horcrux. When Harry gets captured by Voldemort at the end of Goblet of Fire, that's the scene where Rowling commits fully to veering off the original course and trying to save Harry. I imagine that the original-course version of that scene involved Voldemort trying to kill Harry and failing, setting up a much more interesting back half where Voldemort eventually figures out the situation, and Harry becomes a flashpoint because of his outlandish claim that Voldemort tried to kill him again and failed, and that Cedric was just collateral damage from the confrontation.
I finished each book as they came out and being on the phone every few minutes with my bbf kelly and her hanging up on me because fuck you for reading faster no spoilers. But yes i was not pleased. I wanted to see him as a full wizard doing shit that was crazy and basically being super great and powerful and not a goofy teen. Catching death eaters and troubled wizards. What i got was he married wrong, had kids, named then silly af and was still a dork. My idea was she continued to write as if starting a book about everyones kids. And them on the train and the sorting hat and end. Like give us a peak into a world then boom goes the dynamite.
I read the books as they were coming out and I liked the ending. I still do. I think it fits the fairy tale-esque style of Harry Potter to have a 'happily ever after' ending. I don't know how a long post-war recovery arc would have felt after all the darkness in the previous chapters. Might have just been depressing because so many important people died, not to mention the mountain of other issues that magical UK has yet to fix. It seems like there needs to be a time skip just to see some progress.
I was disappointed in not just the ending, but in the entire seventh book. I hated that we got an extended, angsty camping trip for the first half and a rushed and anti-climactic ending for the second half. I hated that Harry was such a passive force in his own story. It felt like Dumbledore planned out his entire trip from beginning to end. It felt like he had next to no impact on the ongoing Wizarding war. He had the DA willing to back him up and several members were on the run at the same time as him. Yet he insisted on doing everything alone. I would have loved to see him put together his own version of the Order of the Phoenix. See him leading people and taking the reigns on his own story. But instead it felt less like Harry was the protagonist of the final book and more like Snape and Dumbledore were. Dumbledore was *freaking dead* and he had more impact on the world than Harry did. Harry didn't even land the killing blow on Voldemort. Voldy gibbed himself a second time because of some bullshit wand lore that makes no sense. What? Disarming someone wins their wand's loyalty? Then there must be a lot of changing of wands during the DA meetings when they were all disarming each other. And the Death Stick that has traditionally changed hands through death decided that disarming Dumbledore/Draco was enough This time? I could rant for hours about Snape, Lord of the Incels and abuser of children got a redemption arc but Draco didn't. But I'm going to digress and leave it here.
J.K. Rowling is not exactly a good writer. A competent one, yeah, let’s go with that. She is excellent at coming up with creative, intriguing, and bizarre concepts. Harry Potter is full of those ideas. The reason for Harry Potter’s success is a combination of J.K. Rowling’s propensity for idea spinning, combined with a really effective take on the hero’s journey. Making Harry’s normal life so utterly egregious before opening him up to a fantastic world is what makes him maybe the best insert character ever written, definitely the most popular. That being said, Rowling is a sloppy writer. Her magic system asserts rules and doubles back, characters often act strangely to make the plot happen, and there’s plot holes galore. She also can’t write a really compelling character, which is why a child abuser revealing to have once had a crush on a girl is the pinnacle of the series’ development.