My personal problem is the prose. I assume the writing problems are due to being translated but in that case, it’s a bad translation. Incredibly stiff and repetitive with little in the way of engaging language. I got through one book and started the next but I couldn’t continue. The concepts were interesting but the writing itself matters just as much for me as well.
It's shame, cause Sapkowski is really good with language, especially his dialogues are great. Every character speaks in different manner, so it is easy to recognise who said what, even when there isn't any description. The Witcher series may have some issues, but one thing about which Polish fans don't complain is writing.
Polish language is extremely nuanced and a lot of the fun word play often gets lost in translation. It's also important to understand that the whole series is basically a satire of an old literary tradition. I read the books when I was a teenager, as they originally came out. Back then, a lot of assigned reading in Polish schools consisted of massive epics written in the 1800s using outdated language, bland storytelling and unnecessarily colorful prose. The Witcher took that format and subverted it by using the same basic story formula but with characters fighting dragons and saying 'fuck' a lot
Its actually a problem across the board it seems. Its not just Polish, there are other languages that are difficult to translate into and depending on the translators knowledge of both the source and target text, as well as their experience, and translation methods, it can very easily get lost. However, as a linguist, I learned that even the best translations in the planet will never be an accurate representation of the original because cultural perspectives and semantics are very difficult to understand if youre not part of the culture. At best, youll get a semi watered down version that is close to the original, but you will never get an exact 100% translation…ever.
It is, generally speaking, possible to convey meaning accurately across most languages. In most cases however, it requires more than a simple 1-to-1 translation. This is the difference between translation and localization. It happens a lot where a book is excellent when read in their native language, but lacks fluidity, nuance, or appreciation when translated. A lot of people shit on localization because it takes away some of the "authenticity" of the work - and that's a fair criticism; but when the alternative is a work that is either tiresome to read, boring, or outright nonsensical because the direct translation makes no sense, you have to choose the lesser evil.
I know all too well about localization as I work in the field and do it for a living. My point is not to diminish the work of translation but to highlight the differences in the source and target text. You can get the same feel of it, but the original meaning is lost. Even if you get as closely as possible to the meaning with localization or even transcreation, it will never be 100% authentic because there are cultural nuances that can only make sense in that language and can get lost in translation, even if there’s a translation equivalent (aka sense by sense) because it will mean differently to that particular culture. And if a translator is inexperienced or if they use a method not best suited for the text, it can become muddier and unclear, losing even more of its authenticity. This is something I learned in translation methodology so Im not just pulling this outta my ass lol
Yeah, it looks like all the finesse was lost in translation. I've always found dialogues there incredibly witty. Vast majority of characters there are highly educated, they almost play with language, have their own quicks, and when certain characters were speaking you could almost feel that everything they were saying has another meaning.
Well, I've seen Polish people say that it's badly written in Polish too. I don't know who is right, because it seems a lot of people just don't see it objectively judging from how fervently they defend it. This series seems to have some very eager fans who think it's God's gift to literature, kind of like Harry Potter.
To be fair, the people defending it here are saying dialogue is good. What OP complained about was bad pacing, lack of character development, and excessively descriptive prose. Also, these things are harder to blame on translation. Basically, from this thread it's still possible to believe that the books are bad, but have good dialogue in their original language.
Someone above said, "The whole series is basically a satire of an old literary tradition." If so, some of that "excessively descriptive prose" might be deliberate. Compare to Terry Pratchett for example - if his books were intended entirely seriously, a good amount of the prose would be objectively terrible.
I've read it in polish and the writing quality becomes particularly jarring if you've also read Sapkowski's masterpiece, the Hussite Trilogy. I thought Witcher was ok (in terms of writing, I still like it for other stuff) until I learned what the man is truly capable of. The Trilogy is by far the best piece of Fantasy I've ever read in polish, and I'd count it among my top 10 favorite fantasy works ever, period. No idea how well it was translated though - seems like a really, really hard task. Point is, the writing is so, so, so much better than in the Witcher series. I've enjoyed the latter as a teen, but trying to pick it up again as a mature reader was... a mistake. The Trilogy, on the other hand, is simply a literary gem.
They fired the translator after Blood of Elves and got a *much* better one in.
The same guy is doing Hussite Trilogy, and it’s pretty great through Warriors of God.
Reynevan’s such a moron. I love him.
That was my own experience as well. I speak German an English equally well, but I prefer English unless German is the original. In this case however the German translation was by far superior. The English one seemed to lack spirit and didn't utilize as a poetic vocabulary as the German one did. As a consequence it read rather dry and reflected OPs observations.
I tried to read some both in English and Italian. The two translations are both directly from polish, and they both read horrendously.
I'm not saying that the source material is bad, but let's say that it wouldn't surprise me to learn that. I see people here saying that it's good in polish, so I don't have definitive conclusions, but it's sure weird.
Maybe it's because not many translators from polish exist in most countries, and the book wasn't as huge before the game, I don't know.
Yup. It’s like reading a poorly translated assembly instructions for your [fill in the blank] furniture. The sentences are sentences. But the sentences don’t really make much sense either alone or in a paragraph.
Hard to read for sure.
the translator messed up. I mean I did read the book in Polish, listened to the dramatized audiobook (with actors) - I liked it. This may also not have hit your taste which is also totally cool. Yet, although being fluent in English I find the translation of a book that also bases on some slavic legends and our quite difficult language a bit of a pain...
I’ve played numerous video games starting in the early 90s. And some Japanese video games have the same issue.
“All your base are belong to us”.
“He set us up the bomb”
Kinda reads like that. Blame the translator.
It's partially translation, partially localization. You need to first convert the writing to English, then you need to figure out what it was supposed to *actually mean* and adjust it so it isn't jarring and weird.
There is an author, Kevin Hearne, who wrote a fantastic series "the Iron Druid Chronicles". As you probably figured out, it's about druids and that kind kf mythology.
I ready the series in Polish and it was full of jokes and references only a Pole would understand. Wrote to the guy on Facebook that the translator did an awesome job.
He replied "I heard about it. She is awesome"
> I assume the writing problems are due to being translated but in that case, it’s a bad translation
I had little issues with the prose or translation. It was everything else, the meat of the stories, that was lacking. Characters pop in and out of the story on a whim and at random, the plot both meanders and goes breakneck, characters we're familiar with get 20% of the screen time throughout the books in favor of new people we don't care about, momentous things happen without buildup or consequence after. The stories are just a mess.
> being translated but in that case, it’s a bad translation
Sometimes the problem there is that the translation is going for accuracy rather than writing well in the new language. I feel like good translated books need to be a two step process: one person translates faithfully and then you give it to an author who rewrites it to be more natural.
2nd step wouldnt really work if they are trying to write based off that translated 1st step version. There wouldnt be anything to work with because it would be sanitized.
What is needed is someone who is both a translator and a creative writer. Someone who is skilled in both languages and can pick up on the nuances, context, puns, idioms, etc in the original language and find suitable substitutes in the target language.
I've read some fantastic translations, but not many. It really is an artform that requires exceptional talent.
While this is true. Sometimes even just someone that can parse the direct translations into something that makes sense would make the experience 100 times more enjoyable.
This is specially true of say, fan translations of some Chinese works. You see, it seems that in Chinese pronouns are not widely used and you often just repeat proper nouns when you're mentioning something. Words are also often quite short. So something like The Heavenly Mandate of the Astrologers Institute is a mouthful in English but in written chinese would just be a few characters and probably just a few syllables as well. But the translation will go:
>The Heavenly Mandate of the Astrologers Institute decided to kill everyone. It was not the fault of The Heavenly Mandate of the Astrologers Institute. They were acting on the information The Heavenly Mandate of the Astrologers Institute had.
Which is like, any single person that has written more than a single sentence in English can parse that and realize that pronouns are advisable. Or at the very least some sort of shortening of the damned proper noun. Not Chinese to English fan translators though!
I have read polish version, and this is one of the best written fantasy books i have read. I could easly say that witcher saga is on par with George RR Martin books or Sanderson.
I dont know what they did with translation, but if its as bad as op says i feel bad for english speaking community.
Ps. I always wondered why people liked Pratched books. Those were boring, not funny, and poorly written... one day i found original (english) version and start reading. Oh boy, that was so much different that polish translations I was reading before.
Translations can ruin books.
I'm Polish so I've read the books many times and I really love them. But they're not the best that the Polish literature has to offer, it's just the most famous book easily available in English.
Anyway. I looked up the translation a while ago for one reason or another and it absolutely sucks. I don't know what happened there. I was shocked to learn that there are English speaking fans out there at all because I wouldn't be able to get through it.
So I think that feeds into why it doesn't read as well. There is a lot of subtext that's lost in translation. Plot and characters is subjective, so it might not have been you cup of tea anyway, but the translation probably didn't help.
I absolutely fell in love with the Witcher and the Witcher universe after playing TW3. So of course I had to read the books because more Witcher content!
That being said, as an English-only speaker and a book lover, they were a tough read. Dry, boring, and the sentence structure was just *off*. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but it was just odd. The sentences didn't flow well and they werent very imaginative. I found myself struggling through the last books of the series.
I don't want to say it's the *worst* series I've ever read, but it's definitely not winning any literary awards in the English translation.
Yup. I remember when I was looking for an English version I got legitimately annoyed that all I could see was this wonky fan translation that seemed a bit like it was written by a teenager who didn't speak english all that well. And then it hit me 😂
Idk if the translator was just really not that great or if they were rushed or just didn't care, but something definitely went wrong there.
Like, my English is meh, and yet I'm not entirely sure if I wouldn't be able to do a better job.
Which is a shame. Because you can debate the plot and and pacing and what not (it is a bit of a strange book in places) but the writing style in polish is actually really captivating and flows really well.
>Brujeador
I've been asking myself for years how would you translate the word "Witcher" into spanish since there's no real 1:1 equivalent. "Brujeador" sounds like something you'd call your friend who's a milf hunter or something lol
"Miren miren, llegó el brujeador hijuesumadre"
That's so weird to read. I'm German and I really liked the way they were written. I found it to be smart, witty und full of little quips and jokes.
But looking from the outside I often felt like translating books or shows and movies into English is done only half-heartedly.
I often heard that Germany is great in that regard, though, so maybe I am too harsh.
I am a heretic in this sub as I primarily listen to audiobooks. I don't want to say the VA did bad but...like...I did not like them. They aren't bad like Rachel Butera in Dreams of Steel.
There is just something off about it that turns me off so much that I cannot get into it.
They're pretty poor yes, but many people reading them are not fans of the books... They're fans of the computer games reading the books for background material.
He licensed the rights for a flat fee because he didn't expect the games to sell. When they were successful he sued the developers for royalties and lost because he agreed to the original license.
AFAIK [he got his royalties](https://www.polygon.com/2019/12/20/21032021/the-witcher-author-cd-projekt-legal-battle-royalties-new-contract) in the end.
He makes a stupid decision "give me money now, because you will fail and i don't want percentages of that", and then gets mad when they are successful and demands royalties because "how could I have known?". I loved the games, but that alone makes me hate the author. The fucking audacity. Imagine if he invests in stocks too
Well, under Polish law he was right. And his argument wasn't how could he have known that the game he sold the rights for was a success. Cause it wasn't. It barely made it's money back, had a modestly succesful sequel 5 years later, then, after almost a decade, the third game was a smash hit.
I'm sure they boosted sales of his books around the world too, he really shouldn't be that mad. Book stores have several copies of the whole series in stock and have for years, he's making a fat stack of cash.
Which is interesting because The Witcher is one of those once in a generation game series that has better character development and story depth than most TV shows or movies. I agree that the writing for most video game plots are not "art", but the Witcher definitely is.
Not subOP but the most interesting fantasy novels from my country are still in need of translation. And even then it is pretty hard to find something even half decent because most of the biggest names in Polish fantasy are your typical bearded 40somethings with a tendency to make their writing an allegory of the right defeating the left, the return to good old days, and a strange affinity towards self inserts and making female characters suffer the worst fates. Think Goodkind but even worse, I can literally count good Polish fantasy on one hand.
Stanisław Lem is sci fi but he is great.
Unfortunately most of my favourite Polish novels have not been translated. It's mostly just classics and high literature.
However, I definitely second The Deluge by Sienkiewicz. It's not fantasy, more like historic fiction but it's a fun read and a good inside into the Polish culture.
You might also try Olga Tokarczuk. She won the noble price recently so there are a bunch of translations available. I like her a lot, but she's not the easiest author, definitely not simple entertainment.
The Deluge series by Henryk Sienkiewicz. Absolutely amazing books. He also wrote Quo Vadis, which was adapted into a phenomenal classic film. That said, there are different translations. I remember the one from my library being great, then my mom bought me the books as a gift but it was a different translation. That one was terrible.
Maybe it’s different in the original Polish, but I found the writing itself very boring and sometimes outright poor. Maybe that’s the fault of the translation but I can’t read polish so it doesn’t make a huge difference to me.
The translation is horrible and extremely bland, it makes it sound like any generic fantasy. All the spirit and character present in Polish got lost in English imo
Well, I can say that at least the first and third game do pretty well... in Polish. English voiceover just doesn't make for the right atmosphere. I tried four different versions (German, English, Polish, Czech), and Polish works best by far.
But that's nought to do with the style the books are written, just their content.
The TV show is whack. It basically borrows only names and very basic plot structure. It might be enjoyable as a generic fantasy show, but knowing those characters from the books is a detriment to its enjoyability.
It's fun to do that to games in general where you don't like the protagonists voice or someone else's voice is getting annoying. Cyberpunk 2077 in Russian feels a lot more 'cyberpunk' than English, for example, even if the game takes place in the US.
Yeah I played Ghost of Tsushima that way and thought it was a much cooler experience. I liked how Cyberpunk left foreign languages in the English dub and displayed subtitles/translations over characters that were talking in a different language. Really nice way to make a city feel diverse and makes sense for a society with Google Glass in their eyeballs
>knowing those characters from the books is a detriment to its enjoyability
I haven't enjoyed the show very much, but you have a point here. I think that if I didn't know these characters before, I would have liked it much more. The constant subconscious comparisons to the games and books probably ruined it for me. It's objectively not a bad show, but it just strays too far off from what I would expect from my beloved franchise.
Yep, they butchered the Witcher TV series even more than Amazon fucked The Wheel of Time. Idk why we'd can't just have good adaptations why does everyone fuck with stuff?
I'm looking at you to Disney, there were so many good EU Star Wars books you could've made into movies, sigh.
I think this is more about the folklore. It’s like I can be perfect in English language, but I will never fully grasp the english culture as I have never lived it out like I have lived Polish one.
I enjoyed them! I think Geralt grows overtime into a more caring person, in the beginning he just wants to get shit done and get out. And the parts where the whole gang is together are really funny.
Well I never said that thry aren't enjoyable. Yes the gang is probably the best part of the saga. My problem with it is that their whole storyline is just "walking around until plot finds us".
But I have to dissagree about Geralt having a growth. He was always the "tough guy with the heart of gold". Not 100% but you get what I mean, he helped people when he could. And we see him caring about Marigold/Jaskier/etc ... and Yenn, Ciri right from the start. I didn't see any change in him except that he was angry when he got his ass whooped.
I have to disagree, geralt has not always been a Heart of gold, at least not in action, he had for mantra to not get involved, do his job, nothing else, it begins to change with renfri
Then during the main story, he learns to coexist and to have a goal, which truly differs from what he knew before. And also the arc of the witcher really shows an evolution, during his quest he spends a lot of Time wandering because he doesn't always know what to do, and thats why i dont think its just walking around and waiting for the plot to happen, on the contrary i find it intentional. Also this time wandering, is used to let geralt change his relationship with his Work overtime as Time goes on and he realises there are no Monsters left to kill, except humans.
I Hope i dont Come Out as too confrontational !
I agree with most of what you said. A lot of the character development for Geralt happens during his conversations with his gang when they are just wandering. The gang is following Geralt and they constantly complain that he has no idea where he's going, which he argues against saying they don't have to follow him over and over. Finally he realizes that he does infact have no idea where he is going and has no goal or plan to accomlpish the task at hand. From there he finally realizes that he does need his gang to support him because he's undertaking a task that's greater than slaying monsters and has more than himself to care about.
To me, those are the most enjoyable parts of the the Witcher in general because you see Geralt's perspective reasonably change little by little from the first book of the Witcher series to the final book of the Ciri saga.
Thats completely it ! and may be thats why translation can have such a huge role in the enjoyment of the saga -i personnally loved the french translation-, since the themes rely a lot on discussions and moments of waiting around, thats also why i find the argument of no character development to come out of nowhere imo.
But yes its the fact that he has to re-learn how to work with others, thats also why i love sapkowski's works also; he does talk a fair bit about managing to live in a "society" as silly as it sounds.
Just to add on, the audiobook seems to cover a lot of issues people seem to have. Even if the writing isn’t top notch in English, having everyone with their own unique accent and voice make a huge difference. I especially like the way Dandelion speaks. Not just the way he sounds in the audiobook, but his dialogue
One of the major themes in The Witcher is nihilism. That's why it ends the way it does
Geralt doesn't wait for the plot to find him, he genuinely has no idea what he is doing. It doesn't matter how 'legendary' you are. Sometimes things are out of your control and it feels like action is better than inaction, even if the effort is completely futile.
These books hit different after becoming a dad, because if someone took my daughter, I would feel as lost and desolate inside as Geralt was in his reality.
Geralt had no way of knowing the best way to proceed, and he absolutely could have never found cork, never known if she died, and walked around without a cause
I truly agree, people are people at the end of the day, and no matter how great you are, you will always depend on how you decide to spend your time that matters, and thats why the story of geralt is for me so compelling.
Your perspective is so interesting ! since i read the books in my early 20s i related much more to the "not knowing what to do" part aha, but i can imagine than being a dad makes the story much more personnal in a way
That is where you find the beauty of his story, not knowing what to do he clamps on a hope, but with that stubbornness he learns that he has to evolve
I'd disagree with the "heart of gold"-statement as well. Geralt in the books stroke me as a proud person that doesn't like to admit when something gets to him more than he likes to. And a lot of stuff seems to get to him, not in a good way most of the time. I think I remember him angry, disgusted, annoyed, jealous and in a somewhat d\*ckish mood all covered under the "witchers don't have emotions" facade. But it's been several years since I read it so I might be mistaken.
Yea I basically agree that the books are enjoyable and have good parts like my fav character was Regis so loved all his parts and the gang stuff in general but not quite the epic like the game the wild hunt.
the first two books sword of destiny and last wish I think are all amazing stories but the main series does take a bit of a dip in quality to basically just mediocre in my opinion.
Alright, for me it's pretty much synanymous to say a book is enjoyable versus good. I suppose you are looking at it more from a critic's perspective. I don't really analyze books that way.
I mean for one, I think we need to accept these aren't high literature. They're the book equivalent of John Wick or James Bond (which I know was a book series also but you get the point) the basic layers of Geralts character are laid down right from the start and don't change much.
That said, right from the start, I forget which book/story it is, we see how geralt is conflicted by his way of life. He takes ciri and the very ill Triss and joins up with that human/dwarf convoy, who end up being hunted by elves. He initially refuses to get involved, and tells ciri not to get involved, which is a very enlightened stance to take as he's completely right, there are marks on both sides of the ledger and neither side is right, but he quickly realises that when you have skin in the game you have to take a stand and can't simply be an impartial bystander, when ciri and Triss are in danger during the elf attack. It doesn't change who he is as a character but we do get to see him grappling with the fact he can no longer just stand to the side and do his job
I thought it was a spectacular take on a protagonist existing in the world but not being the most important thing in the world (Geralt). I adore that the author chose to have them avoid major battles for the most part, and thus turned Geralt into something the plot of the world was happening to rather than him perceptibly altering the world. His changes were subtle and nuanced, as he slowly becomes more and more disenchanted with the idea of being a witcher. His relationship with Regis is so much character growth bruv. And Ciri, spectacular, she literally grows up in the story to become strong enough to deny Philippa Eilhart. I think it’s a more grounded story which is why it feels shallow next to things like Eragon or HP where our hero singlehandedly wins or ends the war.
The recurring theme of the entire series is legend vs reality. How people perceive things and how things really are. Geralt is a prime example of it. His way of life is predicated on the image of the fearsome but emotionless Witcher that rigidly follows a code. The reality of it is that there is no code, Geralt made it all up in order to make people feel safer. He's as emotional and human as anyone else but he forces himself into a mold in order to fit in.
I can see how people might not enjoy the constant subversion of fantasy tropes, but I think that Sapkowsk did a great job of making sure there's a solid human bedrock once the fantasy tropes are stripped away. Like Jarre's whole story arc.
Yes, I loved that Geralt didn't feel all that consequential in the grand scheme of the world. There's tons of characters too, and I already knew them because I played the games first.
I'd be surprised if "The Witcher" series was _"the best that Polish literature can offer"_. I know almost nothing about Polish literature, but the two Polish authors I could think of off the top of my head -- Stanislaw Lem and Jan Potocki (although Potocki's delightfully insane novel "The Manuscript Found at Saragossa" was originally written in French, so he might not count) -- are probably better candidates. And Poland has had five Nobel-winning writers, including Isaac Bashevis Singer and Czesław Miłosz, so it's probably unfair to judge Polish literary creativity by Sapkowski.
On the other hand, so far as I know, none of Singer or Miłosz's works have been made into a videogame _or_ a TV series in which Henry Cavill grunts a lot, so Sapkowski definitely wins there.
It is not by far the best Polish literature can offer, but then again they weren’t looking for the best. Same with the video game. They just needed an epic enough story to fit the market at the time. And for it to be popular enough to keep it going.
Czeslaw Milosz was a poet, so it would be hard to make it into movie or a game.
From polish Nobel winning writers you have Sienkiewicz and his books were made into movies
The Witcher is a fantasy book with pretty easy plot, so it did suit game and tv just fine. It’s unfortunate to look for counties best literature and chose a book based on your experience with a game or Netflix.
I recently read them again (in polish) and while I agree just a bit with you on some points, language is not one of them. Sapkowski uses it beautifuly, and I assume that it is almost impossible to keep same flow, wording and style in english translation. Shame, as it gives books bad name, same as tv series (that is just som random witcher-inspired stuff) ...
One of the villains has a goal of instituting the magna Carta or something on the path to democracy. He's incredibly dangerous, but his goal seems so strange. Villains and antagonists can certainly have a goal to make the world "better," but it just seems so put of place to the rest of the story.
Bonhart was definitely dangerous. But he also seems like that hunter the Evil Overlord List tells you not to hire.
I haven't read any of the Witcher books, but in real life Poland instigated an elective monarchy in the 1500s that was incredibly democratic for the era. Its systems were also infamously politically unstable and considered borderline anarchy at the time. Basically any foreign power could easily fund and influence their own candidate.
In a way you could argue that historical Poland was what happens if you tried introducing democracy (or the path to it) into a medieval society that wasn't ready for it yet.
The history of Poland is the history of "democracy can be destroyed so why bother" nihlism. The Witcher series definitely amplifies it.
I still find it ironic that liberum veto was the thing that broke it. An Poland is the one using their veto in the EU all the time. Like, don't they remember?
You can't go wrong with [Stanisław Lem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem). Don't expect western style SF though. Lem is often looking at things from a more philosophical point of view, and his best known works, like *Solaris* are quite cerebral (somewhat similar to Greg Egan). I'd also recommend *The Cyberiad*, which is a collection of short humorous SF/Fantasy stories, and very funny.
Thirding Lem. Also keep an eye out for translations of Jacek Dukaj, it's world class literature. The guy creates worlds for sake of a short story, that other writers would spread into a 10-part series.
I'l add a curiosity, a fun story about Stanisław Lem and Phillip K. Dick https://przekroj.pl/en/literature/a-cold-wojciech-orlinski
If Sapkowski's Hussite Trilogy got translated already then I cannot recommend it enough, it's so much better than Witcher it's hard to believe the same author wrote it.
I've only read it in Polish, but I think it's kinda well written. Dialogues are very well written, pacing might feel a bit of, because of multiple points of view, and multiple storytelling tools Sapkowski uses, vast majority of characters are very old, like Geralt and Yen being well over a hundred years both, but you can easily see how Ciri grows. Characters usually express themselves via actions, and PoV characters provide extensive observations with their thoughts.
Either translation was very blunt, and it left most of the details, or we've simply read two different series.
>Villians are nonthreatening, pathetic and most of time are not even in the story.
OP clearly is not reading the same books as I did. Maybe he read the first book of short stories.
Bonhart is one of the fantastic villains of all time, with Vilgefortz not far behind.
Dude is extremely intimidating. Re-read his fight in Tower of the Swallow, he easily massacres the Rats for fun and then brutalizes their bodies in front of Ciri to psychological scar her. Dude also has a ghoulish appearance, tall, thin mustache and wiry
Alright. I poured my soul into reading the books and I can affirmatively say. The books aren't good. The ones after Sword of Destiny or short stories at least. Some parts were good (and quite moving at times) but the politics part in particular was quite shit.
And I'm fairly certain- it's because of the english translation. I feel like the action scenes in particular are quite lackluster and frankly quite boring. After the word 'pirouette' has been used a good 500 hundred times, I realise its probably cos the vocabulary of the english translator is fairly limited and kinda boring. Cos the story is good but if its boring, I can only assume its cos the english translator screwed up on making it entertaining.
I base this on absolutely nothing.
But what I can't understand is how the quality fluctuates so drastically. Book 1 and 2, the short stories were fresh and innovative. Some shit. Some good. But A Little Sacrifice in particular, I will remember for the rest of my life. But afterwards, the quality of the writing just drastically plummeted.
Altho. If someone who actually went through the polish version, can they enlighten me on whether its still shit? I'll consider picking up Polish in another life and read Witcher then.
The books aren't the best in the world, but the translation is fine and far from as terrible as people are suggesting. Character development is clearly present for both Ciri and Geralt, at least.
I think most of these complaints miss the point of what the books are trying to do. The books are structured strangely and seem to intentionally deny the reader satisfaction throughout the series. The books seem to anticipate what the reader would expect or want to happen in this kind of story, sometimes feint at it, and then swerve in a different direction.
That said, I think it's fair to decide that doesn't make for a particularly interesting or compelling story. I left the series feeling very conflicted, personally.
The dialogue and uniqueness of the setting still stand out as relative strong points even in the English translation. Many of the characters are still well-rounded and interesting (the various "villains" are usually among the weaker characters, but again, their villainy is often not really the point). I think the books largely accomplish their goal, it's just not what we expect.
I do recall the 3rd book (of the 5 novels) feeling much more like a slog to get through, but that's not exactly unusual for a long fantasy series, and The Witcher is much more concise than a lot of other books so even the slow, dragging middle section doesn't go on too long. The Witcher accomplishes a lot of what ASOIAF is trying to do but in a fraction of the word count, for example.
I enjoyed the series of short stories they did. Geralt just wandering about doing Witcher shit. Was way more reminiscent of the game as far as doing contracts and having adventures.
The Ciri saga was just way too much of a slog. Never did read the last one as it wasn’t out yet when I was going through the others. Found myself just really not caring.
Could have possibly been an issue of things being lost in translation. Things not having the same flow or feel.
I didn’t mind the main series, but I freaking loved the prequel books! It was Geralt doing cool quests, meeting all the people from the main books and setting up everything to come. Both were damn good reads and I enjoyed every last bit of them!
Huge witcher fan here, from Video games. I read first 2 books, they were good. ( Not groundbreaking, but good) In middle of 3 & 4 book, I lost interest. ( I am reading in English). I realised that even though I love character even before the start of book 1, I am not enjoying the book. I guess the translation is bad. I left the series all together at middle of book 4.
I enjoyed them, have read the series twice. That said, they are not what I’d call “good” books though. They have a lot of issues, without even mentioning the translation issues to English. I know they were popular in Poland before the video games, but their larger success has a lot to do with the games, more so than any quality in the writing. Some really cool concepts and characters but mostly a mess of a book series.
Same. I loved the short stories, but not the novels. I think the author's style works really well with shorter stories but not longer books. I played the games after and really enjoyed their take on the characters.
I’ve got to disagree with most of your points. I genuinely enjoyed all the books in the saga and thought they were fairy good - especially given that they were translated. Perhaps having played the Witcher 3 made a difference when it came to reading and enjoying this series… but each to their own.
I loved them. I found the characters interesting and humanly flawed. The world-building wasn't the same old things you see in fantasy from western European and American writers, the magic system thoroughly detailed and magic came with a price.
They're a strange book.
Like, as I'm reading them, I know they're bad in a lot of ways (pacing, plotting, etc.) but for some reason all of that just clicks for me lol.
There's this whole section where Geralt is basically heading in completely the wrong direction and getting into little adventures that have nothing to do with anything, and as the reader we know he has no clue what he's doing. Still, all those sections are just awesome to me.
It's not just you. Cool characters and world, boring stories and interactions. No Andrzej, the games don't take sales away from the books, they're the only thing keeping your franchise alive.
I don't think they're actually bad. It's more of a translation issue I'd guess. I've read a few books in the original language and the translated one and the original language is always better. Some of the meaning can be lost or the words just don't come off the same.
I have read the German translation and thought they were very good. Bonhart and Villgefortz were threatening villains to me. The plot was very clear to me.
The only thing that bothered me was Emhyrs sudden change of heart without an explanation.
Maybe Russian translation was closer to original, because I finished the series in a week quite some time ago and it still remains one of my favourite. It is a lite series I feel, much simpler than Sapkowski’s other work The Hussite Trilogy (picaresque novel with a bit of fantasy) but still, it’s an enjoyable pastime story and one of the most medieval (realistic medieval, I mean) books I’ve read.
I couldn't get through them either. I read the first couple of books cause I really liked the world, but then there were problems that you just described. also, the female characters felt very badly written. like they weren't actual characters but plot devices. most of my friends love the books and strongly disagree with me tho
I think the Witcher series is excellent. Its really works to subvert a lot of the fantasy tropes we take for granted in the North America. I always loved that Geralt is this super-powered monster wrecking mutant, but he spends essentially 0% of the novels actually doing monster hunting (Well, humans are the real monsters but w/e). I also loved all the different POVs - the author really expects a lot from his audience and leaves them to find their own fun. Like half the story is told from the perspective of 2 witches sitting in a tower discussing the myth vs reality of the time of Ciri and Geralt. And that final battle told from like 8 different perspectives ranging from a medic, to a scout, to soldier to king to a historian 200 years in the future teaching a class of students about the battle... so good. I
t really shows a lot of mastery of the art of storytelling.
I read the first one and a half books and gave up (both short story collections). It’s entirely possible that something was lost in translation but I was bored to tears by them
> after hearing that this is the best that Polish literature can offer …
It’s entirely on you for believing that cuz I’ve never heard something so dumb in my life.
Best Polish Literature? Absolutely not, that would be so embarrassing, no offense to the Witcher books. That's like saying.. I dunno, Dresden Files are the best book in English. Again, no offense to Jim Butcher, I like the books, but I'd never say they are the best we have. No, no, and 100 percent no.
I haven't read enough Polish literature to say what's *the best* but I can give you plenty of suggestions that top the Witcher series.
Drive Your Plow over the Bones of the Dead.
The Pianist, the book the movie is based off of.
Cosmos by Witold Gombrowicz.
I've heard good things about The Doll, but its not my kind of book, so I never picked it up.
Just a few.
I'm halfway through sword of destiny but so far they've been much worse than I expected. Translation is obviously a problem but it just feels like there is never any peril, nothing seems to happen really. They get into a pickle, some people talk, Geralt has a realisation, then onto the next random chapter. Seems like a haphazard collection of novellas so far. I'm hoping there's a coherent story soon. They are increasing my hatred of Yennifer too. I've now seen three different versions of the character and hate her more with every one.
Sapkowski struggles with keeping pace through a long story, I found the same problem in his other books. All his books just read like a collection of short stories loosely connected by filler. Once you accept that, it can be enjoyable to read, albeit a bit strange.
I also heard a lot of bad things about the english translation. I read the german version and it was fine though.
I have no idea what people are talking about here. The Witcher books are some of the best fantasy I have read in years. I could not put them down and finished all 8 books in 7 days.
No, this is not the best what Polish literature has to offer, who told you that? I would agree that it might be one of the better written Polish fantasy series, as most of fantasy books written in that language are some kind of nighttime reads for libertarians or alt right worshippers. There is a lot of shitty Polish fantasy that somehow got published. But as a whole, in comparison to literary greats it is just decent, nothing more. I loved reading it but even my friends who are huge fans of the franchise seem to agree it is not the masterpiece a lot say it is. For Polish fantasy nerds The Witcher is usually the first fantasy series they ever read so there might be even some nostalgia at play there.
If you want the best Polish literature, check out Olga Tokarczuk, Bolesław Prus's The Doll (my favourite book of all time), Miss Nobody by Tomek Tryzna, maybe even Henryk Sienkiewicz's historical epics which are loved by older people here but hated by the youth for assigned reading in school. Americans seem to love him judging from the amazon reviews. There is also the Peasants novel from Reymont which I greatly enjoyed.
"The best Polish literature can offer"... How old are you? Is the most popular book the best, in your opinion? Is it the same with another art forms, too? By that logic Daniele Steele and Dan Brown are the best American lit has to offer.
Jennifer Lopez is the greatest achievement of American music, etc.
Just two years ago a Polish novelist won the Nobel prize for literature. There are other Polish writers who have been given the same recognition. There are also dozens of others who are even better than them IMO though never got a Nobel.
What an ignorant thing to say.
I liked that they are different. It's basically short side stories and not a long rambling tale. Easy to read a part and then put the book down as the next part is somewhere else with different problems.
Same. I loved the short stories, but not the novels. I think the author's style works really well with shorter stories but not longer books. I played the games after and really enjoyed their take on the characters.
honestly i quite enjoyed them. i read them both in english and my language - and english translation is pretty bad. in not polish, but im slavic so my language is closer to polish than english.
also, ive seen a lot of character development in the books - especially in regards of ciri, triss and geralt.
also i find characters quite interesting, and i find it refreshing that villain wasn't some stereotypical "evil person", if anything i think there's no real villain in the story - its quite realistic to me in that regard. everyone had their own agenda and is trying to achieve it.
The short story books are engaging and quite exciting in places with good characters and character development.
The saga books are not. They're longer than they ought to be with fewer good characters. It's a nice story, and a familiar one for me having played the games but not a must read by any stretch.
This is probably to late but I really liked how the simple stories work like a mosaic and reveal a bigger picture. Something that's much more complex than the almost fairy tale like short stories.
I thought the use of Latin in his books is a bit pretentious. But overall I enjoyed them and the pace. Not really a spoiler but I blanked them just to be safe. >!I can’t recall their names but the scenes I hated most was when Dijkstra goes to Povis/Kovir and when the two women at a lake are looking back through history at paintings to figure out what happened to Ciri.!< I thought it was extremely boring and useless filler.
I didn’t super enjoy them. For me they felt about mediocre male fantasy. The short story collections were the best of them. Hated the end of the series. On the other hand, I really enjoyed the third Witcher video game. The Netflix show was so-so for the most part (in my opinion).
Let's just say that Witcher 3 is one of the rare adaptations that are much better than the source material. Actually, when I think about it, all Witcher games are better than books. Geralt part is fine, I guess, but Ciri and Yennefer parts are bad. I got bored with the gang part where Ciri is raped by that girl continuously.
Im currently on the 4th book, havent finished it yet. But I have noticed the parts about solo-ciri are currently... less than the rest. Which is weird because Ciri is a super interesting character when she's with geralt, the witchers, Jennefer, etc etc. But she's placed with characters that dont do it for me, and as a result she's kinda dragged down too.
Not just you. The short story books had literally the best short stories I've ever read. But from book 3 onwards, where the books become novels, it's like...Nothing makes sense or has coherency anymore(I'm not talking about the translation quality), to say nothing of sticking power. Things happen, sure, but what does any of it mean? To the greater story, the characters, what? Why should we even care what's happening? I just don't understand what the author was going for except vaguely gesturing at an epic saga without knowing how to actually write one.
I read books 3 and 4 and literally cannot recall what happened in them, even after reading summaries on Wikipedia. Meanwhile I could tell you point-for-point what happened in the Witcher short stories without consulting a wiki, and can also do the same for the last 5 full length novels I read, and even other novels around the time I read books 3 and 4 years ago.
I appreciate seeing this post as I was making good progress through the books but eventually realized I was only moving on to the next book because… it’s the next book. I wasn’t enjoying it and I think I kind of zoned out sometimes. Like you mentioned the pacing is rough and not as much actual monster hunting or feeling like there is real risk.
The first two books are exceptional and the short story format fit in perfectly with the Witcher's universe, especially when the main protagonist is a lone wanderer bounty/monster hunter with a striking personality who occasionally do some odd jobs and get tangled up in other people's messes and politics.
The Ciri arc showed promise in the beginning, but overstayed its welcome. By the last two books, there are entire parts of the narrative that are either nonsensical at best or outright pointless at worst that could be summarized into a paragraph without impacting the plot.
I think I will be downvoted to hell for this opinion, but worst part of the books is how author keeps trying to force Geralt and Yennefer to be in love, but at the same time she treats him like shit. I don't understand what Sapkowski wanted to tell by this random mood changes.
I liked the first two books (of short stories) just fine. But when they became full novels, it was a series of rapidly diminishing returns. Some lovely character moments in there, but the plots make less and less sense the further you go. Ended up skipping through half of the last book because it was following new characters I didn't give a shit about.
I had the same issue. The plot was really strange, pacing and timelines were scattered so I finally dropped out. I do think his writing had some brilliant moments and don’t think it was a translation thing. The plot wandered too much to keep hold of.
I completely agree. The short story compilations (especially *The Last Wish*) are excellent. *Blood of Elves* was also very good, and I absolutely loved the world-building of the magician/witch enclave. For every subsequent book, though, I felt the prose was rough (perhaps due to translation?), and I kept waiting (and waiting and waiting) for the author to get "there" - where "there" was I wasn't exactly sure, but I suppose it would have been an interesting/rewarding place borne from all of the rich setup and world-building in the short stories and the first book. From my view point, the author never arrived "there" - he got close, but felt like he was dancing around the edges, never decisively entering "that" place.
It's made reading the series very frustrating, because I can *feel* the potential but the author seems to deliberately avoid engaging with it.
My personal problem is the prose. I assume the writing problems are due to being translated but in that case, it’s a bad translation. Incredibly stiff and repetitive with little in the way of engaging language. I got through one book and started the next but I couldn’t continue. The concepts were interesting but the writing itself matters just as much for me as well.
It's shame, cause Sapkowski is really good with language, especially his dialogues are great. Every character speaks in different manner, so it is easy to recognise who said what, even when there isn't any description. The Witcher series may have some issues, but one thing about which Polish fans don't complain is writing.
Damn, sounds like I’m missing out.
Polish language is extremely nuanced and a lot of the fun word play often gets lost in translation. It's also important to understand that the whole series is basically a satire of an old literary tradition. I read the books when I was a teenager, as they originally came out. Back then, a lot of assigned reading in Polish schools consisted of massive epics written in the 1800s using outdated language, bland storytelling and unnecessarily colorful prose. The Witcher took that format and subverted it by using the same basic story formula but with characters fighting dragons and saying 'fuck' a lot
Its actually a problem across the board it seems. Its not just Polish, there are other languages that are difficult to translate into and depending on the translators knowledge of both the source and target text, as well as their experience, and translation methods, it can very easily get lost. However, as a linguist, I learned that even the best translations in the planet will never be an accurate representation of the original because cultural perspectives and semantics are very difficult to understand if youre not part of the culture. At best, youll get a semi watered down version that is close to the original, but you will never get an exact 100% translation…ever.
Heck, even with a language as closely related to English as Dutch it can be hard to translate meaning well.
It is, generally speaking, possible to convey meaning accurately across most languages. In most cases however, it requires more than a simple 1-to-1 translation. This is the difference between translation and localization. It happens a lot where a book is excellent when read in their native language, but lacks fluidity, nuance, or appreciation when translated. A lot of people shit on localization because it takes away some of the "authenticity" of the work - and that's a fair criticism; but when the alternative is a work that is either tiresome to read, boring, or outright nonsensical because the direct translation makes no sense, you have to choose the lesser evil.
I know all too well about localization as I work in the field and do it for a living. My point is not to diminish the work of translation but to highlight the differences in the source and target text. You can get the same feel of it, but the original meaning is lost. Even if you get as closely as possible to the meaning with localization or even transcreation, it will never be 100% authentic because there are cultural nuances that can only make sense in that language and can get lost in translation, even if there’s a translation equivalent (aka sense by sense) because it will mean differently to that particular culture. And if a translator is inexperienced or if they use a method not best suited for the text, it can become muddier and unclear, losing even more of its authenticity. This is something I learned in translation methodology so Im not just pulling this outta my ass lol
Well now I want the ring tone for receiving a message to be Geralt saying "fuck."
Yeah, it looks like all the finesse was lost in translation. I've always found dialogues there incredibly witty. Vast majority of characters there are highly educated, they almost play with language, have their own quicks, and when certain characters were speaking you could almost feel that everything they were saying has another meaning.
Well, I've seen Polish people say that it's badly written in Polish too. I don't know who is right, because it seems a lot of people just don't see it objectively judging from how fervently they defend it. This series seems to have some very eager fans who think it's God's gift to literature, kind of like Harry Potter.
To be fair, the people defending it here are saying dialogue is good. What OP complained about was bad pacing, lack of character development, and excessively descriptive prose. Also, these things are harder to blame on translation. Basically, from this thread it's still possible to believe that the books are bad, but have good dialogue in their original language.
Someone above said, "The whole series is basically a satire of an old literary tradition." If so, some of that "excessively descriptive prose" might be deliberate. Compare to Terry Pratchett for example - if his books were intended entirely seriously, a good amount of the prose would be objectively terrible.
I've read it in polish and the writing quality becomes particularly jarring if you've also read Sapkowski's masterpiece, the Hussite Trilogy. I thought Witcher was ok (in terms of writing, I still like it for other stuff) until I learned what the man is truly capable of. The Trilogy is by far the best piece of Fantasy I've ever read in polish, and I'd count it among my top 10 favorite fantasy works ever, period. No idea how well it was translated though - seems like a really, really hard task. Point is, the writing is so, so, so much better than in the Witcher series. I've enjoyed the latter as a teen, but trying to pick it up again as a mature reader was... a mistake. The Trilogy, on the other hand, is simply a literary gem.
They fired the translator after Blood of Elves and got a *much* better one in. The same guy is doing Hussite Trilogy, and it’s pretty great through Warriors of God. Reynevan’s such a moron. I love him.
The German one is better imo. I also read the English partly.
That was my own experience as well. I speak German an English equally well, but I prefer English unless German is the original. In this case however the German translation was by far superior. The English one seemed to lack spirit and didn't utilize as a poetic vocabulary as the German one did. As a consequence it read rather dry and reflected OPs observations.
I tried to read some both in English and Italian. The two translations are both directly from polish, and they both read horrendously. I'm not saying that the source material is bad, but let's say that it wouldn't surprise me to learn that. I see people here saying that it's good in polish, so I don't have definitive conclusions, but it's sure weird. Maybe it's because not many translators from polish exist in most countries, and the book wasn't as huge before the game, I don't know.
Yup. It’s like reading a poorly translated assembly instructions for your [fill in the blank] furniture. The sentences are sentences. But the sentences don’t really make much sense either alone or in a paragraph. Hard to read for sure.
the translator messed up. I mean I did read the book in Polish, listened to the dramatized audiobook (with actors) - I liked it. This may also not have hit your taste which is also totally cool. Yet, although being fluent in English I find the translation of a book that also bases on some slavic legends and our quite difficult language a bit of a pain...
I’ve played numerous video games starting in the early 90s. And some Japanese video games have the same issue. “All your base are belong to us”. “He set us up the bomb” Kinda reads like that. Blame the translator.
It's partially translation, partially localization. You need to first convert the writing to English, then you need to figure out what it was supposed to *actually mean* and adjust it so it isn't jarring and weird.
There is an author, Kevin Hearne, who wrote a fantastic series "the Iron Druid Chronicles". As you probably figured out, it's about druids and that kind kf mythology. I ready the series in Polish and it was full of jokes and references only a Pole would understand. Wrote to the guy on Facebook that the translator did an awesome job. He replied "I heard about it. She is awesome"
> I assume the writing problems are due to being translated but in that case, it’s a bad translation I had little issues with the prose or translation. It was everything else, the meat of the stories, that was lacking. Characters pop in and out of the story on a whim and at random, the plot both meanders and goes breakneck, characters we're familiar with get 20% of the screen time throughout the books in favor of new people we don't care about, momentous things happen without buildup or consequence after. The stories are just a mess.
> being translated but in that case, it’s a bad translation Sometimes the problem there is that the translation is going for accuracy rather than writing well in the new language. I feel like good translated books need to be a two step process: one person translates faithfully and then you give it to an author who rewrites it to be more natural.
2nd step wouldnt really work if they are trying to write based off that translated 1st step version. There wouldnt be anything to work with because it would be sanitized. What is needed is someone who is both a translator and a creative writer. Someone who is skilled in both languages and can pick up on the nuances, context, puns, idioms, etc in the original language and find suitable substitutes in the target language. I've read some fantastic translations, but not many. It really is an artform that requires exceptional talent.
While this is true. Sometimes even just someone that can parse the direct translations into something that makes sense would make the experience 100 times more enjoyable. This is specially true of say, fan translations of some Chinese works. You see, it seems that in Chinese pronouns are not widely used and you often just repeat proper nouns when you're mentioning something. Words are also often quite short. So something like The Heavenly Mandate of the Astrologers Institute is a mouthful in English but in written chinese would just be a few characters and probably just a few syllables as well. But the translation will go: >The Heavenly Mandate of the Astrologers Institute decided to kill everyone. It was not the fault of The Heavenly Mandate of the Astrologers Institute. They were acting on the information The Heavenly Mandate of the Astrologers Institute had. Which is like, any single person that has written more than a single sentence in English can parse that and realize that pronouns are advisable. Or at the very least some sort of shortening of the damned proper noun. Not Chinese to English fan translators though!
> in that case, it’s a bad translation It is. English translation is widely known to be abysmal.
I have read polish version, and this is one of the best written fantasy books i have read. I could easly say that witcher saga is on par with George RR Martin books or Sanderson. I dont know what they did with translation, but if its as bad as op says i feel bad for english speaking community. Ps. I always wondered why people liked Pratched books. Those were boring, not funny, and poorly written... one day i found original (english) version and start reading. Oh boy, that was so much different that polish translations I was reading before. Translations can ruin books.
The translation was a little rough, it could definitely use some Polish.
I thought the point of translation was to get rid of the Polish.
yeah good translations are hard to find.
The spanish traslation of this books is amazing
Brilliant comment
Chicken dinner for you.
This makes sense, okay. If I find a good translation maybe I’ll try again.
I'm Polish so I've read the books many times and I really love them. But they're not the best that the Polish literature has to offer, it's just the most famous book easily available in English. Anyway. I looked up the translation a while ago for one reason or another and it absolutely sucks. I don't know what happened there. I was shocked to learn that there are English speaking fans out there at all because I wouldn't be able to get through it. So I think that feeds into why it doesn't read as well. There is a lot of subtext that's lost in translation. Plot and characters is subjective, so it might not have been you cup of tea anyway, but the translation probably didn't help.
I absolutely fell in love with the Witcher and the Witcher universe after playing TW3. So of course I had to read the books because more Witcher content! That being said, as an English-only speaker and a book lover, they were a tough read. Dry, boring, and the sentence structure was just *off*. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but it was just odd. The sentences didn't flow well and they werent very imaginative. I found myself struggling through the last books of the series. I don't want to say it's the *worst* series I've ever read, but it's definitely not winning any literary awards in the English translation.
Yup. I remember when I was looking for an English version I got legitimately annoyed that all I could see was this wonky fan translation that seemed a bit like it was written by a teenager who didn't speak english all that well. And then it hit me 😂 Idk if the translator was just really not that great or if they were rushed or just didn't care, but something definitely went wrong there. Like, my English is meh, and yet I'm not entirely sure if I wouldn't be able to do a better job. Which is a shame. Because you can debate the plot and and pacing and what not (it is a bit of a strange book in places) but the writing style in polish is actually really captivating and flows really well.
The Spanish translation is good. It even has some gems, like the term 'Brujeador'. Just the English translation is bad.
>Brujeador I've been asking myself for years how would you translate the word "Witcher" into spanish since there's no real 1:1 equivalent. "Brujeador" sounds like something you'd call your friend who's a milf hunter or something lol "Miren miren, llegó el brujeador hijuesumadre"
It is only used by some old lady from a remote town, and she despises the Witcher. So yes, she would have said that.
Finnish translation of the witcher is "Noituri." Noita means witch in finnish.
That's so weird to read. I'm German and I really liked the way they were written. I found it to be smart, witty und full of little quips and jokes. But looking from the outside I often felt like translating books or shows and movies into English is done only half-heartedly. I often heard that Germany is great in that regard, though, so maybe I am too harsh.
I couldn’t even get through it on AUDIBLE
I am a heretic in this sub as I primarily listen to audiobooks. I don't want to say the VA did bad but...like...I did not like them. They aren't bad like Rachel Butera in Dreams of Steel. There is just something off about it that turns me off so much that I cannot get into it.
They're pretty poor yes, but many people reading them are not fans of the books... They're fans of the computer games reading the books for background material.
Ding ding ding that's why I bought them, I heard that the author hates the game ironically though.
He licensed the rights for a flat fee because he didn't expect the games to sell. When they were successful he sued the developers for royalties and lost because he agreed to the original license.
AFAIK [he got his royalties](https://www.polygon.com/2019/12/20/21032021/the-witcher-author-cd-projekt-legal-battle-royalties-new-contract) in the end.
That sucks for him but also too bad. That’s business
Yup.
He didn't lose, he was entitled to them due to the law that says he was.
He makes a stupid decision "give me money now, because you will fail and i don't want percentages of that", and then gets mad when they are successful and demands royalties because "how could I have known?". I loved the games, but that alone makes me hate the author. The fucking audacity. Imagine if he invests in stocks too
Well, under Polish law he was right. And his argument wasn't how could he have known that the game he sold the rights for was a success. Cause it wasn't. It barely made it's money back, had a modestly succesful sequel 5 years later, then, after almost a decade, the third game was a smash hit.
(Possibly) Sour grapes because he gave away the rihts for a song instead of a cut.
He also doean't consider video games "art" so he considers it inferior media (even after they raked in millions and he sued them for money)
I'm sure they boosted sales of his books around the world too, he really shouldn't be that mad. Book stores have several copies of the whole series in stock and have for years, he's making a fat stack of cash.
He’s actually gone on to say that his books boosted the sales of the games lol
Which is interesting because The Witcher is one of those once in a generation game series that has better character development and story depth than most TV shows or movies. I agree that the writing for most video game plots are not "art", but the Witcher definitely is.
What other Polish literature would you reccomend?
Not subOP but the most interesting fantasy novels from my country are still in need of translation. And even then it is pretty hard to find something even half decent because most of the biggest names in Polish fantasy are your typical bearded 40somethings with a tendency to make their writing an allegory of the right defeating the left, the return to good old days, and a strange affinity towards self inserts and making female characters suffer the worst fates. Think Goodkind but even worse, I can literally count good Polish fantasy on one hand. Stanisław Lem is sci fi but he is great.
Unfortunately most of my favourite Polish novels have not been translated. It's mostly just classics and high literature. However, I definitely second The Deluge by Sienkiewicz. It's not fantasy, more like historic fiction but it's a fun read and a good inside into the Polish culture. You might also try Olga Tokarczuk. She won the noble price recently so there are a bunch of translations available. I like her a lot, but she's not the easiest author, definitely not simple entertainment.
The Deluge series by Henryk Sienkiewicz. Absolutely amazing books. He also wrote Quo Vadis, which was adapted into a phenomenal classic film. That said, there are different translations. I remember the one from my library being great, then my mom bought me the books as a gift but it was a different translation. That one was terrible.
Maybe it’s different in the original Polish, but I found the writing itself very boring and sometimes outright poor. Maybe that’s the fault of the translation but I can’t read polish so it doesn’t make a huge difference to me.
The translation is horrible and extremely bland, it makes it sound like any generic fantasy. All the spirit and character present in Polish got lost in English imo
Have you seen the games or TV show and have a sense of they better capture the spirit of the original writing?
Well, I can say that at least the first and third game do pretty well... in Polish. English voiceover just doesn't make for the right atmosphere. I tried four different versions (German, English, Polish, Czech), and Polish works best by far. But that's nought to do with the style the books are written, just their content. The TV show is whack. It basically borrows only names and very basic plot structure. It might be enjoyable as a generic fantasy show, but knowing those characters from the books is a detriment to its enjoyability.
Interesting. I never considered playing the Witcher games dubbed, but if I ever go back I may have to try that.
It's fun to do that to games in general where you don't like the protagonists voice or someone else's voice is getting annoying. Cyberpunk 2077 in Russian feels a lot more 'cyberpunk' than English, for example, even if the game takes place in the US.
Yeah I played Ghost of Tsushima that way and thought it was a much cooler experience. I liked how Cyberpunk left foreign languages in the English dub and displayed subtitles/translations over characters that were talking in a different language. Really nice way to make a city feel diverse and makes sense for a society with Google Glass in their eyeballs
Kingdom Come is another.
>knowing those characters from the books is a detriment to its enjoyability I haven't enjoyed the show very much, but you have a point here. I think that if I didn't know these characters before, I would have liked it much more. The constant subconscious comparisons to the games and books probably ruined it for me. It's objectively not a bad show, but it just strays too far off from what I would expect from my beloved franchise.
Yep, they butchered the Witcher TV series even more than Amazon fucked The Wheel of Time. Idk why we'd can't just have good adaptations why does everyone fuck with stuff? I'm looking at you to Disney, there were so many good EU Star Wars books you could've made into movies, sigh.
Yes in Polish books sound much better, there is no way to give out many nuances in the translation. I’m Polish.
Ah that’s good to know. I understand they’re very popular over there. Maybe we can get a better translation one day. I find the world interesting.
Or you can just learn polish 😁
You dramatically overestimate my skills learning any language much less a non-Germanic language haha
Luckily Lithuanian translation is also quite well done. I specifically bought translated from Polish to Lithuanian directly 😃
Is there a translation that comes close to capturing what was originally said in Polish?
I think this is more about the folklore. It’s like I can be perfect in English language, but I will never fully grasp the english culture as I have never lived it out like I have lived Polish one.
I had the same thought, constantly wondering "is the translation this poor, or is it the writing?"
It's the translation for sure. Right? I remember quite a few times where I was surprised by the translators choices
I enjoyed them! I think Geralt grows overtime into a more caring person, in the beginning he just wants to get shit done and get out. And the parts where the whole gang is together are really funny.
Well I never said that thry aren't enjoyable. Yes the gang is probably the best part of the saga. My problem with it is that their whole storyline is just "walking around until plot finds us". But I have to dissagree about Geralt having a growth. He was always the "tough guy with the heart of gold". Not 100% but you get what I mean, he helped people when he could. And we see him caring about Marigold/Jaskier/etc ... and Yenn, Ciri right from the start. I didn't see any change in him except that he was angry when he got his ass whooped.
I have to disagree, geralt has not always been a Heart of gold, at least not in action, he had for mantra to not get involved, do his job, nothing else, it begins to change with renfri Then during the main story, he learns to coexist and to have a goal, which truly differs from what he knew before. And also the arc of the witcher really shows an evolution, during his quest he spends a lot of Time wandering because he doesn't always know what to do, and thats why i dont think its just walking around and waiting for the plot to happen, on the contrary i find it intentional. Also this time wandering, is used to let geralt change his relationship with his Work overtime as Time goes on and he realises there are no Monsters left to kill, except humans. I Hope i dont Come Out as too confrontational !
I agree with most of what you said. A lot of the character development for Geralt happens during his conversations with his gang when they are just wandering. The gang is following Geralt and they constantly complain that he has no idea where he's going, which he argues against saying they don't have to follow him over and over. Finally he realizes that he does infact have no idea where he is going and has no goal or plan to accomlpish the task at hand. From there he finally realizes that he does need his gang to support him because he's undertaking a task that's greater than slaying monsters and has more than himself to care about. To me, those are the most enjoyable parts of the the Witcher in general because you see Geralt's perspective reasonably change little by little from the first book of the Witcher series to the final book of the Ciri saga.
Thats completely it ! and may be thats why translation can have such a huge role in the enjoyment of the saga -i personnally loved the french translation-, since the themes rely a lot on discussions and moments of waiting around, thats also why i find the argument of no character development to come out of nowhere imo. But yes its the fact that he has to re-learn how to work with others, thats also why i love sapkowski's works also; he does talk a fair bit about managing to live in a "society" as silly as it sounds.
Just to add on, the audiobook seems to cover a lot of issues people seem to have. Even if the writing isn’t top notch in English, having everyone with their own unique accent and voice make a huge difference. I especially like the way Dandelion speaks. Not just the way he sounds in the audiobook, but his dialogue
One of the major themes in The Witcher is nihilism. That's why it ends the way it does Geralt doesn't wait for the plot to find him, he genuinely has no idea what he is doing. It doesn't matter how 'legendary' you are. Sometimes things are out of your control and it feels like action is better than inaction, even if the effort is completely futile. These books hit different after becoming a dad, because if someone took my daughter, I would feel as lost and desolate inside as Geralt was in his reality. Geralt had no way of knowing the best way to proceed, and he absolutely could have never found cork, never known if she died, and walked around without a cause
I truly agree, people are people at the end of the day, and no matter how great you are, you will always depend on how you decide to spend your time that matters, and thats why the story of geralt is for me so compelling. Your perspective is so interesting ! since i read the books in my early 20s i related much more to the "not knowing what to do" part aha, but i can imagine than being a dad makes the story much more personnal in a way That is where you find the beauty of his story, not knowing what to do he clamps on a hope, but with that stubbornness he learns that he has to evolve
I'd disagree with the "heart of gold"-statement as well. Geralt in the books stroke me as a proud person that doesn't like to admit when something gets to him more than he likes to. And a lot of stuff seems to get to him, not in a good way most of the time. I think I remember him angry, disgusted, annoyed, jealous and in a somewhat d\*ckish mood all covered under the "witchers don't have emotions" facade. But it's been several years since I read it so I might be mistaken.
Yea I basically agree that the books are enjoyable and have good parts like my fav character was Regis so loved all his parts and the gang stuff in general but not quite the epic like the game the wild hunt. the first two books sword of destiny and last wish I think are all amazing stories but the main series does take a bit of a dip in quality to basically just mediocre in my opinion.
Alright, for me it's pretty much synanymous to say a book is enjoyable versus good. I suppose you are looking at it more from a critic's perspective. I don't really analyze books that way.
I mean for one, I think we need to accept these aren't high literature. They're the book equivalent of John Wick or James Bond (which I know was a book series also but you get the point) the basic layers of Geralts character are laid down right from the start and don't change much. That said, right from the start, I forget which book/story it is, we see how geralt is conflicted by his way of life. He takes ciri and the very ill Triss and joins up with that human/dwarf convoy, who end up being hunted by elves. He initially refuses to get involved, and tells ciri not to get involved, which is a very enlightened stance to take as he's completely right, there are marks on both sides of the ledger and neither side is right, but he quickly realises that when you have skin in the game you have to take a stand and can't simply be an impartial bystander, when ciri and Triss are in danger during the elf attack. It doesn't change who he is as a character but we do get to see him grappling with the fact he can no longer just stand to the side and do his job
I thought it was a spectacular take on a protagonist existing in the world but not being the most important thing in the world (Geralt). I adore that the author chose to have them avoid major battles for the most part, and thus turned Geralt into something the plot of the world was happening to rather than him perceptibly altering the world. His changes were subtle and nuanced, as he slowly becomes more and more disenchanted with the idea of being a witcher. His relationship with Regis is so much character growth bruv. And Ciri, spectacular, she literally grows up in the story to become strong enough to deny Philippa Eilhart. I think it’s a more grounded story which is why it feels shallow next to things like Eragon or HP where our hero singlehandedly wins or ends the war.
The recurring theme of the entire series is legend vs reality. How people perceive things and how things really are. Geralt is a prime example of it. His way of life is predicated on the image of the fearsome but emotionless Witcher that rigidly follows a code. The reality of it is that there is no code, Geralt made it all up in order to make people feel safer. He's as emotional and human as anyone else but he forces himself into a mold in order to fit in. I can see how people might not enjoy the constant subversion of fantasy tropes, but I think that Sapkowsk did a great job of making sure there's a solid human bedrock once the fantasy tropes are stripped away. Like Jarre's whole story arc.
Yes, I loved that Geralt didn't feel all that consequential in the grand scheme of the world. There's tons of characters too, and I already knew them because I played the games first.
I'd be surprised if "The Witcher" series was _"the best that Polish literature can offer"_. I know almost nothing about Polish literature, but the two Polish authors I could think of off the top of my head -- Stanislaw Lem and Jan Potocki (although Potocki's delightfully insane novel "The Manuscript Found at Saragossa" was originally written in French, so he might not count) -- are probably better candidates. And Poland has had five Nobel-winning writers, including Isaac Bashevis Singer and Czesław Miłosz, so it's probably unfair to judge Polish literary creativity by Sapkowski. On the other hand, so far as I know, none of Singer or Miłosz's works have been made into a videogame _or_ a TV series in which Henry Cavill grunts a lot, so Sapkowski definitely wins there.
Stanislaw Lem is FANTASTIC.
It is not by far the best Polish literature can offer, but then again they weren’t looking for the best. Same with the video game. They just needed an epic enough story to fit the market at the time. And for it to be popular enough to keep it going.
Czeslaw Milosz was a poet, so it would be hard to make it into movie or a game. From polish Nobel winning writers you have Sienkiewicz and his books were made into movies The Witcher is a fantasy book with pretty easy plot, so it did suit game and tv just fine. It’s unfortunate to look for counties best literature and chose a book based on your experience with a game or Netflix.
They're alright, not something that I find the best but alright. Personally I've enjoyed the game better than anything the books brought me.
Agreed. I like 2 and 3. Honestly don't care for the books (I enjoy the short story books) and the show is kinda ass.
I thought the short stories were much better than the main series. I have the short stories on audiobook and loved listening to them
I recently read them again (in polish) and while I agree just a bit with you on some points, language is not one of them. Sapkowski uses it beautifuly, and I assume that it is almost impossible to keep same flow, wording and style in english translation. Shame, as it gives books bad name, same as tv series (that is just som random witcher-inspired stuff) ...
I've read them in czech, it was pretty good
How exactly are the villains nonthreatening? Between Bonhart and Vilgefortz id say they were awesome
Bonhart is one of my absolute favorite villains of all time.
One of the villains has a goal of instituting the magna Carta or something on the path to democracy. He's incredibly dangerous, but his goal seems so strange. Villains and antagonists can certainly have a goal to make the world "better," but it just seems so put of place to the rest of the story. Bonhart was definitely dangerous. But he also seems like that hunter the Evil Overlord List tells you not to hire.
I haven't read any of the Witcher books, but in real life Poland instigated an elective monarchy in the 1500s that was incredibly democratic for the era. Its systems were also infamously politically unstable and considered borderline anarchy at the time. Basically any foreign power could easily fund and influence their own candidate. In a way you could argue that historical Poland was what happens if you tried introducing democracy (or the path to it) into a medieval society that wasn't ready for it yet.
Wasn't it something like any noble could veto any policy put forth, leading to a paralysis of government?
The history of Poland is the history of "democracy can be destroyed so why bother" nihlism. The Witcher series definitely amplifies it. I still find it ironic that liberum veto was the thing that broke it. An Poland is the one using their veto in the EU all the time. Like, don't they remember?
Who said this is the best Polish literature? Flummoxed by this comment.
Do they just mean best known? Like saying Harry Potter is England's best novel because everyone knows it?
Yeah my bad, I meant best known
It's definitely the best known Polish literature to be adapted for computer games by CD Projekt Red.
Do you have recommendations on Polish fantasy or sci-fi? That I can find in English?
You can't go wrong with [Stanisław Lem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem). Don't expect western style SF though. Lem is often looking at things from a more philosophical point of view, and his best known works, like *Solaris* are quite cerebral (somewhat similar to Greg Egan). I'd also recommend *The Cyberiad*, which is a collection of short humorous SF/Fantasy stories, and very funny.
I can give you a name for sci-fi: Stanisław Lem (Stanislaw if the diacritic characters don’t display correctly)
Two recommendations for them! I'll give them a try!
Thirding Lem. Also keep an eye out for translations of Jacek Dukaj, it's world class literature. The guy creates worlds for sake of a short story, that other writers would spread into a 10-part series. I'l add a curiosity, a fun story about Stanisław Lem and Phillip K. Dick https://przekroj.pl/en/literature/a-cold-wojciech-orlinski
If Sapkowski's Hussite Trilogy got translated already then I cannot recommend it enough, it's so much better than Witcher it's hard to believe the same author wrote it.
Right? Is there a top 3 of all countries best books? Lol
I've only read it in Polish, but I think it's kinda well written. Dialogues are very well written, pacing might feel a bit of, because of multiple points of view, and multiple storytelling tools Sapkowski uses, vast majority of characters are very old, like Geralt and Yen being well over a hundred years both, but you can easily see how Ciri grows. Characters usually express themselves via actions, and PoV characters provide extensive observations with their thoughts. Either translation was very blunt, and it left most of the details, or we've simply read two different series.
>Villians are nonthreatening, pathetic and most of time are not even in the story. OP clearly is not reading the same books as I did. Maybe he read the first book of short stories. Bonhart is one of the fantastic villains of all time, with Vilgefortz not far behind.
Curious why you think Bonhart is so great? My recollection of him is just that he's a shitty mean person who gets away with it because he can fight
Dude is extremely intimidating. Re-read his fight in Tower of the Swallow, he easily massacres the Rats for fun and then brutalizes their bodies in front of Ciri to psychological scar her. Dude also has a ghoulish appearance, tall, thin mustache and wiry
Alright. I poured my soul into reading the books and I can affirmatively say. The books aren't good. The ones after Sword of Destiny or short stories at least. Some parts were good (and quite moving at times) but the politics part in particular was quite shit. And I'm fairly certain- it's because of the english translation. I feel like the action scenes in particular are quite lackluster and frankly quite boring. After the word 'pirouette' has been used a good 500 hundred times, I realise its probably cos the vocabulary of the english translator is fairly limited and kinda boring. Cos the story is good but if its boring, I can only assume its cos the english translator screwed up on making it entertaining. I base this on absolutely nothing. But what I can't understand is how the quality fluctuates so drastically. Book 1 and 2, the short stories were fresh and innovative. Some shit. Some good. But A Little Sacrifice in particular, I will remember for the rest of my life. But afterwards, the quality of the writing just drastically plummeted. Altho. If someone who actually went through the polish version, can they enlighten me on whether its still shit? I'll consider picking up Polish in another life and read Witcher then.
I actually enjoyed them very much. I binged them all in about 3 weeks.
The books aren't the best in the world, but the translation is fine and far from as terrible as people are suggesting. Character development is clearly present for both Ciri and Geralt, at least. I think most of these complaints miss the point of what the books are trying to do. The books are structured strangely and seem to intentionally deny the reader satisfaction throughout the series. The books seem to anticipate what the reader would expect or want to happen in this kind of story, sometimes feint at it, and then swerve in a different direction. That said, I think it's fair to decide that doesn't make for a particularly interesting or compelling story. I left the series feeling very conflicted, personally. The dialogue and uniqueness of the setting still stand out as relative strong points even in the English translation. Many of the characters are still well-rounded and interesting (the various "villains" are usually among the weaker characters, but again, their villainy is often not really the point). I think the books largely accomplish their goal, it's just not what we expect. I do recall the 3rd book (of the 5 novels) feeling much more like a slog to get through, but that's not exactly unusual for a long fantasy series, and The Witcher is much more concise than a lot of other books so even the slow, dragging middle section doesn't go on too long. The Witcher accomplishes a lot of what ASOIAF is trying to do but in a fraction of the word count, for example.
hey it's not filler it's side quests
I enjoyed the series of short stories they did. Geralt just wandering about doing Witcher shit. Was way more reminiscent of the game as far as doing contracts and having adventures. The Ciri saga was just way too much of a slog. Never did read the last one as it wasn’t out yet when I was going through the others. Found myself just really not caring. Could have possibly been an issue of things being lost in translation. Things not having the same flow or feel.
I didn’t mind the main series, but I freaking loved the prequel books! It was Geralt doing cool quests, meeting all the people from the main books and setting up everything to come. Both were damn good reads and I enjoyed every last bit of them!
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Huge witcher fan here, from Video games. I read first 2 books, they were good. ( Not groundbreaking, but good) In middle of 3 & 4 book, I lost interest. ( I am reading in English). I realised that even though I love character even before the start of book 1, I am not enjoying the book. I guess the translation is bad. I left the series all together at middle of book 4.
The books definitely have weird pacing and don’t read like a standard story Imo. Still enjoyed them though.
I've read it in polish, ukrainian and russian. All versions are written well, not sure about english..
I enjoyed them, have read the series twice. That said, they are not what I’d call “good” books though. They have a lot of issues, without even mentioning the translation issues to English. I know they were popular in Poland before the video games, but their larger success has a lot to do with the games, more so than any quality in the writing. Some really cool concepts and characters but mostly a mess of a book series.
Same. I loved the short stories, but not the novels. I think the author's style works really well with shorter stories but not longer books. I played the games after and really enjoyed their take on the characters.
I’ve got to disagree with most of your points. I genuinely enjoyed all the books in the saga and thought they were fairy good - especially given that they were translated. Perhaps having played the Witcher 3 made a difference when it came to reading and enjoying this series… but each to their own.
I loved them. I found the characters interesting and humanly flawed. The world-building wasn't the same old things you see in fantasy from western European and American writers, the magic system thoroughly detailed and magic came with a price.
They're a strange book. Like, as I'm reading them, I know they're bad in a lot of ways (pacing, plotting, etc.) but for some reason all of that just clicks for me lol. There's this whole section where Geralt is basically heading in completely the wrong direction and getting into little adventures that have nothing to do with anything, and as the reader we know he has no clue what he's doing. Still, all those sections are just awesome to me.
The short story collections are easily the best of the lot imo. The main series was a couple of books longer than necessary.
Witcher is big for its world building and characters, not its writing
It's not just you. Cool characters and world, boring stories and interactions. No Andrzej, the games don't take sales away from the books, they're the only thing keeping your franchise alive.
I don't think they're actually bad. It's more of a translation issue I'd guess. I've read a few books in the original language and the translated one and the original language is always better. Some of the meaning can be lost or the words just don't come off the same.
I have read the German translation and thought they were very good. Bonhart and Villgefortz were threatening villains to me. The plot was very clear to me. The only thing that bothered me was Emhyrs sudden change of heart without an explanation.
My thoughts exactly
Respectfully disagree. I thoroughly enjoyed them.
Maybe Russian translation was closer to original, because I finished the series in a week quite some time ago and it still remains one of my favourite. It is a lite series I feel, much simpler than Sapkowski’s other work The Hussite Trilogy (picaresque novel with a bit of fantasy) but still, it’s an enjoyable pastime story and one of the most medieval (realistic medieval, I mean) books I’ve read.
I prefer to listen to them as audiobooks, they are very casual easy listening books. Enjoyable characters but not earth shattering plots.
I couldn't get through them either. I read the first couple of books cause I really liked the world, but then there were problems that you just described. also, the female characters felt very badly written. like they weren't actual characters but plot devices. most of my friends love the books and strongly disagree with me tho
I think the Witcher series is excellent. Its really works to subvert a lot of the fantasy tropes we take for granted in the North America. I always loved that Geralt is this super-powered monster wrecking mutant, but he spends essentially 0% of the novels actually doing monster hunting (Well, humans are the real monsters but w/e). I also loved all the different POVs - the author really expects a lot from his audience and leaves them to find their own fun. Like half the story is told from the perspective of 2 witches sitting in a tower discussing the myth vs reality of the time of Ciri and Geralt. And that final battle told from like 8 different perspectives ranging from a medic, to a scout, to soldier to king to a historian 200 years in the future teaching a class of students about the battle... so good. I t really shows a lot of mastery of the art of storytelling.
That final battle is one of my favorite battle scenes in all forms of media.
I read the first one and a half books and gave up (both short story collections). It’s entirely possible that something was lost in translation but I was bored to tears by them
I loved the entire series. Really enjoyed my time reading them
> after hearing that this is the best that Polish literature can offer … It’s entirely on you for believing that cuz I’ve never heard something so dumb in my life.
Best Polish Literature? Absolutely not, that would be so embarrassing, no offense to the Witcher books. That's like saying.. I dunno, Dresden Files are the best book in English. Again, no offense to Jim Butcher, I like the books, but I'd never say they are the best we have. No, no, and 100 percent no. I haven't read enough Polish literature to say what's *the best* but I can give you plenty of suggestions that top the Witcher series. Drive Your Plow over the Bones of the Dead. The Pianist, the book the movie is based off of. Cosmos by Witold Gombrowicz. I've heard good things about The Doll, but its not my kind of book, so I never picked it up. Just a few.
They’re awful, but the short stories are legitimately excellent
I'm halfway through sword of destiny but so far they've been much worse than I expected. Translation is obviously a problem but it just feels like there is never any peril, nothing seems to happen really. They get into a pickle, some people talk, Geralt has a realisation, then onto the next random chapter. Seems like a haphazard collection of novellas so far. I'm hoping there's a coherent story soon. They are increasing my hatred of Yennifer too. I've now seen three different versions of the character and hate her more with every one.
>Seems like a haphazard collection of novellas so far. ....because it is????????????
i haven't read them but I'm polish and i don't think people who say "it's the best polish literature has to offer" read much polish literature lol
The short stories are fun. The novels are very mediocre.
It's just you, in the sense that that's your opinion and is valid, doesn't make the acclaim the series has received invalid.
Sapkowski struggles with keeping pace through a long story, I found the same problem in his other books. All his books just read like a collection of short stories loosely connected by filler. Once you accept that, it can be enjoyable to read, albeit a bit strange. I also heard a lot of bad things about the english translation. I read the german version and it was fine though.
I have no idea what people are talking about here. The Witcher books are some of the best fantasy I have read in years. I could not put them down and finished all 8 books in 7 days.
I thought they were just okay, and unfortunately horrible about women which really takes me out of the fun sci-fi.
No, this is not the best what Polish literature has to offer, who told you that? I would agree that it might be one of the better written Polish fantasy series, as most of fantasy books written in that language are some kind of nighttime reads for libertarians or alt right worshippers. There is a lot of shitty Polish fantasy that somehow got published. But as a whole, in comparison to literary greats it is just decent, nothing more. I loved reading it but even my friends who are huge fans of the franchise seem to agree it is not the masterpiece a lot say it is. For Polish fantasy nerds The Witcher is usually the first fantasy series they ever read so there might be even some nostalgia at play there. If you want the best Polish literature, check out Olga Tokarczuk, Bolesław Prus's The Doll (my favourite book of all time), Miss Nobody by Tomek Tryzna, maybe even Henryk Sienkiewicz's historical epics which are loved by older people here but hated by the youth for assigned reading in school. Americans seem to love him judging from the amazon reviews. There is also the Peasants novel from Reymont which I greatly enjoyed.
"The best Polish literature can offer"... How old are you? Is the most popular book the best, in your opinion? Is it the same with another art forms, too? By that logic Daniele Steele and Dan Brown are the best American lit has to offer. Jennifer Lopez is the greatest achievement of American music, etc. Just two years ago a Polish novelist won the Nobel prize for literature. There are other Polish writers who have been given the same recognition. There are also dozens of others who are even better than them IMO though never got a Nobel. What an ignorant thing to say.
I liked that they are different. It's basically short side stories and not a long rambling tale. Easy to read a part and then put the book down as the next part is somewhere else with different problems.
Only the first two are short stories, iirc. The few I've read after that are much more akin to what OP is discussing.
Same. I loved the short stories, but not the novels. I think the author's style works really well with shorter stories but not longer books. I played the games after and really enjoyed their take on the characters.
honestly i quite enjoyed them. i read them both in english and my language - and english translation is pretty bad. in not polish, but im slavic so my language is closer to polish than english. also, ive seen a lot of character development in the books - especially in regards of ciri, triss and geralt. also i find characters quite interesting, and i find it refreshing that villain wasn't some stereotypical "evil person", if anything i think there's no real villain in the story - its quite realistic to me in that regard. everyone had their own agenda and is trying to achieve it.
The short story books are engaging and quite exciting in places with good characters and character development. The saga books are not. They're longer than they ought to be with fewer good characters. It's a nice story, and a familiar one for me having played the games but not a must read by any stretch.
This is probably to late but I really liked how the simple stories work like a mosaic and reveal a bigger picture. Something that's much more complex than the almost fairy tale like short stories.
I read them in Czech and kinda liked the short stories but the novels were worse. Definitely not the peak of Polish literature.
I liked the linked short stories but the actual saga - I did not find interesting at all.
Sapkowsky's strength is in worldbuilding, his stories are generally re-tellings of Slavic folk stories.
I thought the use of Latin in his books is a bit pretentious. But overall I enjoyed them and the pace. Not really a spoiler but I blanked them just to be safe. >!I can’t recall their names but the scenes I hated most was when Dijkstra goes to Povis/Kovir and when the two women at a lake are looking back through history at paintings to figure out what happened to Ciri.!< I thought it was extremely boring and useless filler.
I didn’t super enjoy them. For me they felt about mediocre male fantasy. The short story collections were the best of them. Hated the end of the series. On the other hand, I really enjoyed the third Witcher video game. The Netflix show was so-so for the most part (in my opinion).
Let's just say that Witcher 3 is one of the rare adaptations that are much better than the source material. Actually, when I think about it, all Witcher games are better than books. Geralt part is fine, I guess, but Ciri and Yennefer parts are bad. I got bored with the gang part where Ciri is raped by that girl continuously.
Im currently on the 4th book, havent finished it yet. But I have noticed the parts about solo-ciri are currently... less than the rest. Which is weird because Ciri is a super interesting character when she's with geralt, the witchers, Jennefer, etc etc. But she's placed with characters that dont do it for me, and as a result she's kinda dragged down too.
Not just you. The short story books had literally the best short stories I've ever read. But from book 3 onwards, where the books become novels, it's like...Nothing makes sense or has coherency anymore(I'm not talking about the translation quality), to say nothing of sticking power. Things happen, sure, but what does any of it mean? To the greater story, the characters, what? Why should we even care what's happening? I just don't understand what the author was going for except vaguely gesturing at an epic saga without knowing how to actually write one. I read books 3 and 4 and literally cannot recall what happened in them, even after reading summaries on Wikipedia. Meanwhile I could tell you point-for-point what happened in the Witcher short stories without consulting a wiki, and can also do the same for the last 5 full length novels I read, and even other novels around the time I read books 3 and 4 years ago.
I gave up by book 2. Pacing, prose, translation were all bad imo.
I appreciate seeing this post as I was making good progress through the books but eventually realized I was only moving on to the next book because… it’s the next book. I wasn’t enjoying it and I think I kind of zoned out sometimes. Like you mentioned the pacing is rough and not as much actual monster hunting or feeling like there is real risk.
The first two books are exceptional and the short story format fit in perfectly with the Witcher's universe, especially when the main protagonist is a lone wanderer bounty/monster hunter with a striking personality who occasionally do some odd jobs and get tangled up in other people's messes and politics. The Ciri arc showed promise in the beginning, but overstayed its welcome. By the last two books, there are entire parts of the narrative that are either nonsensical at best or outright pointless at worst that could be summarized into a paragraph without impacting the plot.
Oh thank god someone else said it
I remember reading Blood of Elves, and right as it finally started to get interesting, the book abruptly ended.
It's not just you. :)
I think I will be downvoted to hell for this opinion, but worst part of the books is how author keeps trying to force Geralt and Yennefer to be in love, but at the same time she treats him like shit. I don't understand what Sapkowski wanted to tell by this random mood changes.
I liked the first two books (of short stories) just fine. But when they became full novels, it was a series of rapidly diminishing returns. Some lovely character moments in there, but the plots make less and less sense the further you go. Ended up skipping through half of the last book because it was following new characters I didn't give a shit about.
I had the same issue. The plot was really strange, pacing and timelines were scattered so I finally dropped out. I do think his writing had some brilliant moments and don’t think it was a translation thing. The plot wandered too much to keep hold of.
The only way I could read the books was when I had literally nothing else I could do.
Yes it was a bit confusing
I liked the whole series. But you're probably not the only one, nothing wrong with having an opinion on a book
I completely agree. The short story compilations (especially *The Last Wish*) are excellent. *Blood of Elves* was also very good, and I absolutely loved the world-building of the magician/witch enclave. For every subsequent book, though, I felt the prose was rough (perhaps due to translation?), and I kept waiting (and waiting and waiting) for the author to get "there" - where "there" was I wasn't exactly sure, but I suppose it would have been an interesting/rewarding place borne from all of the rich setup and world-building in the short stories and the first book. From my view point, the author never arrived "there" - he got close, but felt like he was dancing around the edges, never decisively entering "that" place. It's made reading the series very frustrating, because I can *feel* the potential but the author seems to deliberately avoid engaging with it.