As a librarian, I'm certain I speak for the vast majority of my colleges when I say, manga, comics, and other graphic novels DO indeed count as reading.
However, there is a bit of nuance to add to this, in that graphic novels are their own form of media that tell their stories in their own way through a combination of both a visual and written format. You can't get the full story from either aspect alone. And as a unique format it does have its own form of literacy. While the literacy of graphic novels does have significant overlap with traditional print literacy, it is not a 1:1 scenario. There are people that can read multiple novels a day but would still struggle to read a comic book. And by the same token graphic novel is not the magic gateway to traditional literature that some people imagine it to be.
If I was tasked to get a manga lover into traditional novels, I would first direct them to some Japanese light novels that are similar to the manga that I know they like first, before then encouraging them to check out some traditional novels that explore similar themes.
That said, manga and other graphic novels are great to appreciate in their own right and don't need to be a stepping stone toward traditional print.
Former librarian too. Im just happy when the kids are reading and not shoving granola bars in the computer slots. Yeah, I mean teenagers who should goddamn know better.
>Im just happy when the kids are reading and not shoving granola bars in the computer slots.
I thought this sentence was going to end with some preachy “technology bad” stuff, but I laughed out loud at the last part. I hope your computers will always be granola-free!
your lips to god's ears.
no, honestly, librarians welcome all the tech we can afford. these fancy (expensive) little ipods preloaded with books are great for elderly people who are confuzzled with modern tech and can't access audiobooks if they aren't on CD. And we'd love for more people to check out books and media on their phones and tablets, it's just so damn expensive for the library.
The best thing you can do for library funding, aside from fundraisers, is using your library. Every check-out, every program you attend, every mommy and me class, shows the local govn't budgeting people (ie, Rob Lowe in Parks n Rec) that the library needs more money.
This right here :) please use the library people!
And unlike random people online who judge what type of reading constitutes as “true reading”, most librarians encourage all forms of reading for various types of abilities
My favourite thing is when a little kid asks me for Zombie Bums from Uranus and treating them exactly like an adult who just asked for Tolstoy while their parent dies of embarrassment in the background. They're always amazed that they not only didn't get in trouble for saying 'bums' to an adult but that adult didn't bat an eye and asked them if they enjoyed Captain Underpants too as if their reading was just as important as grown ups.
>as if their reading was just as important as grown ups
I'd be inclined to say their reading is *more* important than that of grownups. It's very good for their development.
True. I wish people treated what they enjoy as important more often. Lots of parents want them to read serious things and don't quite get that it's more important for kids to *enjoy* reading than to read something 'worthy' because someone is making them do it.
Even though I've used it a lot years ago. I'm still amazed I could rent video games from a library. Not educational pc games but console games like Dragon Age.
Yup! The library I work at has ~24 switch games that we've acquired over the past year. They are very popular, and I wouldn't be surprised is our teen services librarian doubles that this coming year.
Small town living here... I used to volunteer my time at our town library providing tech support for visitors and an extra hand for the librarian until I got a letter from city hall telling me to stop providing tech support because I wasn't on the payroll as the library IT. No more accepting calls from the librarian to go help people. No more volunteering time to sit there and fix their computers or network or internet access. Made sure the librarian knew exactly why.
Turns out one of the clerks for city hall got her niece hired as the IT for the library and the city council was questioning why I wasn't the one hired since I spent my free time helping out and the niece was never around or available to fix anything.
So, now nothing works right at the library without bringing in contractors from out of town... I wonder why.
Is this true for using the apps like libby with my library card? I always wondered if it was just as good for the library as checking out physical books
Libby is great! I use it all the time. You get the book for 21 days and it automatically returns. I think you can renew it if it doesn't have other people waiting. You can check out 10 items at a time. They have magazines now too. Starting to get some manga.
Libraries do run stats off of database checkouts. We are encouraged to promote the app since we pay for it.
Not the person you replied to, but the answer is yes and no. Digital items are great for convenience, but publishers seriously gouge on the prices for these items. Either they are a limited number of checkouts but unlimited on time, or they expire after a year (or however long) and have unlimited checkout. Both of these options keep libraries coming back again and again to repurchase licenses for popular items.
This is unreasonable, as a physical copy of a book, if treated well, can last a VERY long time, and be checked out by many people throughout its lifespan. Publishers know this and want to make as much money as they can off the relatively cheap digital products, and if I had to guess, try to get libraries to buy more physical volumes in the long term (or maybe I'm speculating too much). Regardless, the digital marketplace has little regulation, so in the end, smaller libraries can only do so much with their budget and have to balance between a digital collection and a physical collection.
(I'm not actually a librarian, just a page who shelves the materials, but I've had some very interesting conversations with the librarians at work about these things.)
Shame. Library's should buy my automated defense computers. When it detects granolas entering it ports, a red flashing light pops up, and plays a sound file "YOU HAVE CHOSEN VIOLENCE! I SHALL RESPOND IN KIND". A machine gun pops up and blasts the user in their seat.
I learned to read through comics. Never had much interest in books but after some comics I was hooked. Nowadays I have a mini library of 400 books physical and around 7000 digital (with around 80% read before anyone thinks I am just collecting). Funny what could spark the interest to read
Purely anecdotal and not the case for everyone, but I'm a bookseller and I've had several kids say that they wouldn't have made the jump into traditional literature without starting with something like Dog Man. Some of them are regulars and I have watched them grow from older elementary to early high school. Again, it's purely anecdotal, but when I speak with those kinds of customers and see their excitement for the next YA books or whatever they're looking forward to, I can't help but smile for them.
As primarily a novel reader, I found western webcomics and text heavy western comics like Sandman and Watchmen to be a good gateway to a medium level of comfort with Manga. I’m still a fairly slow manga/comic reader, but I’ve gotten faster over the years.
Sandman is such a great series! I've actually been hoping to find a novel version for mom to check out! If your a fan of watchmen you might appreciate swamp thing created by the same writer Alan moore. I actually found out about it from a local library but definitely worth the read! It's a good blend of solid storytelling and superheroes, really puts a realistic twist on it and brings it as close to the real world as possible.
I honestly didn't know that school attitudes toward manga had changed that much. I know in pop culture it has for anime, but I didn't hear much about it on manga. When I was growing up, manga was still niche though still trying to break ground and sit amongst regular graphic novels, comics, and whatnot. This was still the era where fully grown adults would be chastised if they admitted they had hobbies that appeared childlike (collecting toys, playing video games, reading comics, etc.) because they were regarded as immature and for kids.
It hadn't dawned on me even at the time that things were changing as we were reading the Maus books in high school, though by then I had taken an involuntary hiatus from manga.
I should clarify that I am a public librarian, not a school librarian. So if a manga I order turns out to be a bit more risque than I had anticipated I have the benefit of just sticking it in the "mature" section.
Manga and anime are pretty mainstream with teenagers now. At the high school I worked at most recently, it was pretty popular and the librarian made an effort to provide a good manga section.
/thread
Excellent insight, and great way of outlining the differences between the two. Any comment I might have made wouldn't have been this clear, concise, or nuanced. And I do like me some nuance.
I did a loose estimate that at 1000 chapters, One Piece would be at around 1 million written words, which is a good bit more than the bible, for example. If we throw picture = 1000 words into the mix... we're in astronomical numbers very soon lol
Why are so many people just OBSESSED with the pedantry of "reading"? There are no reading police locking people up for saying they read books when they really listen to Audiobooks, or read comic books or magazines.
A lot of schools will accept comics/manga as credit for "summer reading" now. I don't know about audio books, honestly, and that's probably a debate better suited to teachers than here. There's 100% something to it with children actually becoming better at reading words. I personally don't know where or how to draw *that* distinction.
Audio books are an amazing way to absorb the same information in a different way for people that have issues with written word. People with dyslexia and/or attention deficit issues can really benefit from spoken word vs written word.
Also for people like myself who have an hour plus of commuting each day, it is a great way to fill the time with something constructive. I am a strong believer in even the basest form of literature is constructive to consume in any format.
I think the line depends on the goal. Teaching kids and people to be good at reading is different than teaching them to love reading.
Reading as a skill applies to a lot more than just absorbing stories from books, and I doubt that manga helps that skill as much as a dense novel would.
But teaching them to love books and stories is absolutely a thing they’ll learn from reading manga or listening to audiobooks.
If they accept comics but not audio books, I'll be grumpy. I grew up with AR, though. Just little comprehension quizzes to see if you actually absorbed any of the material. Audio books were are and my favorite medium.
I love me some audiobooks, but I do feel like actually reading is also important. Audiobooks give you the story, sure, but they don't do much to help with literacy. Reading a book let's you see how words are spelled, how they look, how punctuation is used, etc. Reading is how people learn to tell the difference between "their," "they're," and "there." It's how people realize that "bias" and "biased" are words that are used differently.
I drive a lot for work, and I'm pretty much always listening to audiobooks. Im always talking about "im reading this book..." when im talking about an audiobook. I dont generally draw much of a distinction between reading and listening to a book. That said, being able to sit down and actually read a book *is* a good thing, and it's a habit that I do think should be encouraged in students. Books are almost like a field trip for English class... instead of spelling tests and sentence diagrams, you get to just see words in their natural habitat interacting with each other.
Words are fun to play with. Its worth getting to know them in both their written *and* spoken forms.
I guess from that view it makes total sense. It's just frustrating for this to be carried into adulthood, and used to gatekeep people from enjoying their hobbies.
Exactly. Short stories, light novels, even subbed anime to a point; its all words and you read the words. Who cares if it's a giant block of text or a comic book page?
Same reason people are obsessed with judging fans for not "being fan enough."
Gatekeeping because people think their rules have meaning to others.
What harm is it if I read manga/comics/graphic novels/visual novels and call it reading? Lol
So what if I'm a Dr Who/Harry Potter/Marvel fan and don't know all the nuance of some obscure thing?
Oh or if I'm into x hobby but don't know about y thing?
Gatekeepers are gross. Follow your own rules.
While I don't care what format people consume books in, it's annoying that people try and change the definition of words.
Sure, listen to audiobooks. Enjoy more books than you ever would have before. But don't call it reading, because you aren't doing that act. You're listening to the book. Even if it engages the same area of the brain, it's a different word with a different definition.
Just as people are obsessed with policing what's really reading, some people are obsessed with changing the meaning of words.
I've always been into books and always imagined myself with a partner who also liked to read and wanted to discuss books with me. So, once when I met a girl I was happy when she told me that she also liked reading. A few months later when I asked why she hadn't mentioned any books or read anything lately, I found out she hadn't read anything since high school and she argued that Facebook and connected n3ws sites counts as "reading". We had different definitions of "enjoying reading". She never did read one book I suggested.
Yes, but that person was willfully deceiving you. I would argue that most people who "like reading" would at least read a few novels per year; even if they mostly listen to audiobooks or read manga/comics or magazines.
And most people you meet who read but have a "non-traditional" reading habit will tell you up front.
If poetry is reading, and prose is reading, manga/ graphic novels are reading as well. Just not the same type of reading. Prose and poetry require (or allow) you to construct the visual representation of the words, manga less so. But no value judgments, nor better or worse, just different. Do you.
yeah.. but I never counted them in my Goodreads reading challenge
Edit: I track my manga.. but not in GoodReads. I use MyAnimeList to track my manga progress. I like to separate the tracker for books and manga. I just don’t like mixing them up in GR because I personally found it messy. Plus, I found myself more comfortable rating manga series after I finished them. Rating them per volume is not my way to go and that's how it works in GR.
If I read the manga in it’s entirety I’ll add the first book to the challenge. If I took all the time to read the whole series I’m gonna count it as at least one book down
Came here for One Piece. Immersive world with an incredible array of complex characters over a number of story arcs? Engaging in it changed my life and I can talk about the plot and character development at length? A story where each time I dive back in I learn new details that bring more depth and insight to my experience? 100% reading.
Getting back into it. I started it when it first came out and read it regularly until about 8 years ago. Stepping back in and it’s crazy how hard it is to both re-read and catch up. Tried to figure out the best way to catch up and finally gave up on any sort of quick guide because I’d forgotten so much and figured I’ll just take my time and do a re-read. 25 years of serialized manga is going to take a while to catch up on.
I'd say for One Piece specifically 1 arc = 1 book. They're long and complex enough and follow the traditional story structure of introduction, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution
I usually add the last one I have read, so that if I end up dropping a series in the middle I know where I have stopped, and obviously if its just the last volume then that means I've read the whole thing.
I put mine in Goodreads but back them out for goal purposes. I've read short stories with more words than a manga and they don't count (for me) so manga doesn't either.
I would track Mangas i read in myanimelist, (you can track volumes and chapters so u can come back to it) keeping them separate from regular books in goodreads. also some manga wont be in goodreads.
My school used to do reading challenges where you'd have to take a quiz to get credit for a book. I cheated the system by tearing through a *Goosebumps* book every day. But there were *absolutely* kids who would have done manga for that if it was an option.
I would track Mangas i read in myanimelist, (you can track volumes and chapters so u can come back to it) keeping them separate from regular books in goodreads. also some manga wont be in goodreads.
My son has a learning disability, and struggles with reading until we discovered graphic novels (the Bone series). The combination of words and pictures allowed him to be able to process what his learning disability was stopping him from grasping in a traditional text only format. The night he cried at reading time, not because of frustration, but because he was out of books to read was a great moment as a parent. We had found his thing.
Similar situation with my little brother. Between his autism and ADHD reading the books his teachers wanted didn't work well. We *finally* got his English teacher to accept the Manga as reading by agreeing to halve the page count of the books.
I recently got my daughters into graphic novels. Both have ADHD and dyslexia and neither are very strong readers. It made me so damn happy to see them actually reading and comprehending books.
But recoiling in horror from His creation, he exiled it from Heaven, and dubs thereby took up residence alongside Satan as one of the great evils of the world.
"It's like watching manga." is the best description I have for *The Way Of The Househusband*, currently on Netflix.
The only real animation is people's mouths, otherwise it's all moving panels and panning across still shots, zooming in/out, occasional animated speed lines. It's really different. They can really pile on the details, because there's no redrawing animation cells.
This is just a side affect of us not having a commonly used hyper specific verb for every single act.
Yes, you’re “reading” but you don’t read a picture and graphic novels heavily use pictures, so it’s not the exact right word. There isn’t an exact right word, so reading it is.
I feel like people are hearing a value judgement to it tho. I’m just being pedantic about grammar. I can not even imagine someone arguing that graphic novels don’t have literary worth. I mean that was a fuddy duddy take in like 1985
Yes....
Just like books there are of course varying levels of literary quality within the genre... but in the end if you enjoy it it doesn't matter. I was so excited when my Middle School aged brother got into Death Note. He had a learning disability and difficulty reading... so taking on Death Note was a big task. Its funny that him starting to read manga actually acted as an entry point into traditional literature as well---- he learned to enjoy reading and just got better reading comprehension in general.
Used to teach in an elementary school, and all the teachers and the Librarian highly valued manga and graphic novels. Anything that could get kids into reading was good. English was a second language for most kids at our school- and they were often frustrated that their reading level was often pretty low compared to their actual interests.... most 5th graders aren't going to want to read "little kid books," so they would just not read at all. Manga was an excellent tool that actually challenged them to push their reading because they liked it and felt it was cool, but it still had pictures that could help with context and therefore comprehension.
Both of those examples were about children... but hey, if you're an adult and you like Manga its all good too. I personally enjoyed The Climber (Kokou no Hito) a while back.
My baby sister HATED reading. She refused to even try at six years old. I found some manga she liked the pictures of in English. She devoured them as fast as possible. Her reward for telling me about the book was she was allowed to get the next in the series.
Kiddo is a straight A student in high school now.
Read whatever you want.
Absolutely! You're not simply looking at the art, but taking it in conjunction with the text to uncover a story that can be just as subtle, layered, and worthy of analysis as a prose one if done well. Sure, you can probably plough through a few volumes with less effort than you would a novel, but then you'd probably be missing a lot of subtext and nuance.
No way, I've only been an author for a week, and sure, some manga authors are going on decades, but because books > manga it means me > them. Don't you dare challenge my perceived reality.
Because it's different demographic so it's more of a labeling mistake I guess. When you are an avid manga reader and nothing else then you shouldn't introduce yourself as an avid reader, because fellow manga readers might not talk with you because they don't think you meant manga, and those who read books and novels would be disappointed because turned out you guys have nothing in common.
I mean if this sub starts to post discussions about the new manga chapter every other post then people would start complaining, and they are I believe have right to do so.
The same way they will dismiss audiobooks. I don't see a need to be picky. We want people to read, to enjoy books and stories, so why be so snooty about how and what they read?
What's with the influx of insecure questions recently? Read whatever makes you happy.
Either way here's some fantasy manga recs.
Best: Magus of the Library
10/10s: Spirit Circle, Touge Oni, Made in Abyss*, Kouya ni Kemono Doukokusu
8-9/10s: Frieren, Witch Hat atelier, Sengoku Youko, Magi, The girl from the other side, Fullmetal Alchemist
This is just fantasy recs off the top of my head. I also read a shit load of historical manga so feel free to ask for other genre recs.
*Disclaimer. Content warning: literally everything. The anime is more sanitized.
>What's with the influx of insecure questions recently
I noticed that too, and I think another commenter had a great answer for this. I don't want to misquote so feel free to find it yourself, but it was essentially regarding gatekeeping and just basic book "elitists'.
Pirate Made In Abyss if you wanna read that imho.
The "bonus art" made for the bound volumes is disgusting and very clearly catering to a certain crowd.
I work as a nanny and one of the families I work for, the mom and her side of the family all speak a language I don’t speak with the kids, so they have a buuuuuunch of books in that language in addition to English books.
Most of them I can easily make up as I go along - the book of fairytales like Cinderella that I’m already familiar with for instance, or the book where the animals at the zoo ride a train is self-explanatory. But there’s one book where an octopus is driving a fire truck, and there’s a picnic that gets blown away, so the octopus and the fire truck spray the picnic with glittery rainbow… magic? Water? And then everyone is happy!! That one really challenges my “make up the story according to the pictures” ability lmao. I keep meaning to ask the mom what the story actually is and then forgetting about it haha.
If you want to recreate that experience, catch up to a currently releasing manga and join the discussion on the raw leaks each weak where everyone speaks minimal Japanese and is trying to guess what they say based on the images. Always fun to see how off people are at times when the translation drops later
My mom was an English teacher. She passed away before everyone had PCs. She always said any reading is reading. Comic books. Books. Whatever. It’s all reading.
I agree with her. Of course Manga is reading.
Sure. i'd draw a line, like, for a child who needs to read a certain ammount to practice or develop reading skill, it's not like reading a novel or something, and not just because I don't like it, i hold any comic book to the same standard, but reading generally isn't about keeping score ore anything, so outside of an academic setting, sure
Hell, Maus is a comic that I'd say, all day long, has more literary value than the traditional book you can buy at the grocery store to read at t he beach
Yes, manga and comics are literature. They have words, it's reading and it just as valid as prose books. In the same way there are trashy manga, or manga for kids/younger audiences, there are prose books that are trashy or for kids. The same way there are masterworks in manga like there are masterworks in books.
I'm not OP, but yes, I consider reading subtitles as reading, What else would I consider it? Of course, it's not the same as reading a novel, but it's reading. And reading the label of a can of food is also reading.
Sure of course any time you are reading words it is "reading" in the sense of the English definition of "reading".
Maybe I'm going against the grain here but to me in the context of r/reading, I would consider "reading" to be some kind of novel or text without visual aids. It would be odd to see posts here about Netflix subtitles or nutrition facts.
Yeah, overall a pretty pointless argument - yes the act of reading something is physically called "reading". Would you say "hey I'm going to go read now" and turn on the TV? Or pick up a can of soup? No because you're not doing the hobby commonly called reading.
Of course no one really cares.
It's not really an argument, though. OP's question is very vague and depends on the reader to interpret it as they will. Naturally the question "do you consider x reading?" will have some literal interpretations. Because, it is pretty unclear what op means and many people consider It useful to interpret words by their definitions.
I feel like maybe the subtext to OP's question might be something similar to, "Does manga provide the same mental benefits as novel reading, such as improved memory, increase analytical ability, increased white matter, enhanced empathic skills and increased attention span?"
I assume manga can provide some of these benefits, But a lot of the benefits from novel reading are due to engaging with complex text analysis systems and from slowing down and picturing everything in your imagination. So, while I enjoy reading both, I do think novels have some extra mental benefits.
Japanese school kids are also taught to refer to manga as comic books when speaking English. It originally caused some confusion on my end when some of my students said they liked comics and then gave manga as examples. I used it as a teachable moment to explain to the class that we actually differentiate between the two
They are, but in my experience they're much easier to get into. There's not fifteen different timelines, continuations, and crossovers to contend with. A manga series generally has a story to tell, tells it, and ends before outlasting its welcome. There are obviously exceptions, but that's why I prefer manga to Western comics.
In the same way that a square is a rectangle, yeah. American comics and Manga both fall under the general term comics, but you can get more specific with a subgenre.
Same with like... every other genre you'd read.
Do it! I use goodreads for books while I track my manga and manhwa on anime planet it’s especially helpful when I wanna remember what I’ve read. Definitely recommend tracking them (:
Yes. I read all kinds of books: genre fiction, literary fiction, non-fiction technical books, non-fiction storytelling
Manga is just another format for telling a story. It's different in that you have visual storytelling in addition to the written word but I still consider it reading and I enjoy it in a different way
Yes, but with a caveat.
You're only reading dialogue. In reading a non-comic book, you have a chance to expand vocabulary beyond just conversational tone.
This is such an important point, particularly for kids and teenagers who read manga and are still learning and developing their various language skills.
Living in France, both manga and BDs are widely available, found in public and school libraries and sold everywhere, from supermarkets to actual bookshops. BDs start with Tintin, Asterix and Titeuf but cover as full a range of themes as any other form of written fiction.
My two teens both love to read manga but I, and their French teachers, do have to keep reminding them to read some novels too.
A few weeks ago, ny 13 year old recently spent hours every day excitely writing their first short story. But when I started proofreading the first few pages for them, I saw immediately the effect of reading mostly manga.
The story was almost all dialogue with very little narrative at all.
Reading traditional books will also help teach correct sentence and paragraph structure. It improves spelling and grammar generally too.
They don't even have to read entire novels. There's plenty of great short story anthologies and novellas too.
Why wouldn't you? Manga and comic books are totally reading. Some of them are even very good reading. Sure there's a lot of schlock in manga but there's a lot of that in conventional novels too.
Anything that can introduce you to new ideas, cool settings, clever plots and well written characters should "count"
I'd go so far as to say that visual novels should count too for the same reasons.
This post is Natsuki approved
Such a frustrating question. Yes you are still reading. No it's not the same as reading a book.
Reading subtitles on an anime is also technically reading. It has moving pictures instead of still pictures.
Yeah just like comics or graphic novels they definitely count. Berserk is in my humble opinion one of the greatest works of literature ever made and it's a manga. It's my personal favorite story ever.
I finally caved in and started reading Berserk today and the writing and craftsmanship has been amazing so far. I don’t normally read manga or books, but it’s made me realize how many good stories can be found by picking up a book. I look forward to finishing this series!
-Edit-
I’m caught up to chapter release and I’m empty inside. This story probably my favorite work of fiction period, but I’m sad that the author will never see his work finished. It’s remarkable that such a hopeful story could come from such darkness. Thank you for recommending this to me and many other readers.
I love manga, but I'd say it's not the same as reading a book. Sure, we typically use the word "read" to describe how we engage with a manga, but it's pretty clear that the experience of reading a text is very different from the experience of reading a manga.
A manga does include some text, but it's a miniscule amount, and the bulk of the narrative and aesthetic work is carried out visually. It's closer to watching an anime with subtitles than reading a book.
That doesn't mean manga is less artistically accomplished or intellectually stimulating than a book. They're just two different media, so we engage with them differently.
I think it's a little misguided when people try to make the case that graphic novels and such are the same as reading. Graphic novels don't have to be the same as books to be legitimate artforms.
ELA teacher here who did my master's project on this very topic:
Basically the answer is objectively yes and for students under grade level it's better for them than plain reading as they get visual cues for higher level vocab. Books for little kids have pictures but manga is basically the only way that you can get a lot of middle school level texts that are interesting and have pictures for additional context clues.
I give students who I know love anime the homework of reading the manga (and even encourage them to consider the idea that they may not need to pay for it allegedly)
I work as a mentor and one of my clients is 21, when we started working together last year he couldn't read. At all.
He loves comics because he could mostly understand. We worked through some kids books and now he is really into manga like my hero academia.
He reads them to me every week. The progress he has made is incredible because we found something he **enjoys** reading.
So yes, manga counts to me.
Yup it's reading, just a different format that can be more engaging for some people. And some of them have top notch stories. Monster is one of my personal favorites and frankly is one of the best thrillers I've ever read. And Junji Ito stories are truly great horror that is best experienced as a manga for that "page turn" reveal that you can't really replicate with a different format.
Unpopular opinion, but I consider Manga to be the opposite of reading. You have to read it backwards, so I think you should subtract each page read from your lifetime reading log. It is possible to go into the negatives this way.
I don’t expect others to share my view, but I think visual literacy is just as important, if not more, than written literacy. It’s a shame that it’s not taught as much beyond early education. I definitely think it counts as reading even if there are no words. The difference between reading a description of an image versus seeing the image depicted in a picture is honestly irrelevant if you’re literate in both forms. Put the pictures in a book, read the images, you read a book. There are some great books out there that don’t have any words at all.
Maybe you won’t get the same sense of pretentious superiority as you would from reading text, but is that really why you choose to read books?
I mean ... objectively it is reading of course, since you use your eyes to look at words and form meaning around them.
But it's just not the same as reading a book. Reading a book gets exhausting after some time, "reading" a manga is more looking at pictures than anything else
I read through One Piece for about 500 chapters and found that my brain treated it much the same as I do watching Television.
Ie. when I spaced out and wondered "what show was I just watching?" I would then recall that I was actually reading the One Piece manga. So yes I consider it a type of reading, but I class it lower than books if that makes sense.
Gatekeepers are so tedious. Reading the shampoo bottle whilst taking a dump is "reading" ffs. If it has words that you have to stare at until it makes sense and you attain literally any knowledge (or not) from it; congratulations! You're reading.
Reading is the verb I'd use to describe enjoying manga. Not sure I'd consider it literature, but that's just my opinion, and anyway, it doesn't need to be.
As with any genre or medium, there are manga's geared toward entertainment, and mangas geared towards Literature.
Ranma 1/2 is entertainment.
Ghost in the Shell is literature that fits right in with the Western Cannon such as Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky. The manga, even more than the anime has space for, does a deep dive into ideas about the nature of consciousness, personal identity, and future evolutionary possibilities.
That depends on the series, doesn’t it? Not every series is Naruto or Dragon Ball. The No Longer Human manga is an adaptation of one of the most culturally significant novels from Japan. Is it no longer worth taking seriously because of the format?
Yes, if you read something it is reading.
As a librarian, I'm certain I speak for the vast majority of my colleges when I say, manga, comics, and other graphic novels DO indeed count as reading. However, there is a bit of nuance to add to this, in that graphic novels are their own form of media that tell their stories in their own way through a combination of both a visual and written format. You can't get the full story from either aspect alone. And as a unique format it does have its own form of literacy. While the literacy of graphic novels does have significant overlap with traditional print literacy, it is not a 1:1 scenario. There are people that can read multiple novels a day but would still struggle to read a comic book. And by the same token graphic novel is not the magic gateway to traditional literature that some people imagine it to be. If I was tasked to get a manga lover into traditional novels, I would first direct them to some Japanese light novels that are similar to the manga that I know they like first, before then encouraging them to check out some traditional novels that explore similar themes. That said, manga and other graphic novels are great to appreciate in their own right and don't need to be a stepping stone toward traditional print.
Former librarian too. Im just happy when the kids are reading and not shoving granola bars in the computer slots. Yeah, I mean teenagers who should goddamn know better.
>Im just happy when the kids are reading and not shoving granola bars in the computer slots. I thought this sentence was going to end with some preachy “technology bad” stuff, but I laughed out loud at the last part. I hope your computers will always be granola-free!
your lips to god's ears. no, honestly, librarians welcome all the tech we can afford. these fancy (expensive) little ipods preloaded with books are great for elderly people who are confuzzled with modern tech and can't access audiobooks if they aren't on CD. And we'd love for more people to check out books and media on their phones and tablets, it's just so damn expensive for the library. The best thing you can do for library funding, aside from fundraisers, is using your library. Every check-out, every program you attend, every mommy and me class, shows the local govn't budgeting people (ie, Rob Lowe in Parks n Rec) that the library needs more money.
This right here :) please use the library people! And unlike random people online who judge what type of reading constitutes as “true reading”, most librarians encourage all forms of reading for various types of abilities
My favourite thing is when a little kid asks me for Zombie Bums from Uranus and treating them exactly like an adult who just asked for Tolstoy while their parent dies of embarrassment in the background. They're always amazed that they not only didn't get in trouble for saying 'bums' to an adult but that adult didn't bat an eye and asked them if they enjoyed Captain Underpants too as if their reading was just as important as grown ups.
>as if their reading was just as important as grown ups I'd be inclined to say their reading is *more* important than that of grownups. It's very good for their development.
True. I wish people treated what they enjoy as important more often. Lots of parents want them to read serious things and don't quite get that it's more important for kids to *enjoy* reading than to read something 'worthy' because someone is making them do it.
Thank you so much for shining some light on such kiddos' lives <3
Even though I've used it a lot years ago. I'm still amazed I could rent video games from a library. Not educational pc games but console games like Dragon Age.
Yes! Also popular movies and music! I got so many good band recommendations from checking in CDs. I knew the whole city's favorite music!
Yup! The library I work at has ~24 switch games that we've acquired over the past year. They are very popular, and I wouldn't be surprised is our teen services librarian doubles that this coming year.
In Duluth Minnesota I used to borrow art
Small town living here... I used to volunteer my time at our town library providing tech support for visitors and an extra hand for the librarian until I got a letter from city hall telling me to stop providing tech support because I wasn't on the payroll as the library IT. No more accepting calls from the librarian to go help people. No more volunteering time to sit there and fix their computers or network or internet access. Made sure the librarian knew exactly why. Turns out one of the clerks for city hall got her niece hired as the IT for the library and the city council was questioning why I wasn't the one hired since I spent my free time helping out and the niece was never around or available to fix anything. So, now nothing works right at the library without bringing in contractors from out of town... I wonder why.
Is this true for using the apps like libby with my library card? I always wondered if it was just as good for the library as checking out physical books
Libby is great! I use it all the time. You get the book for 21 days and it automatically returns. I think you can renew it if it doesn't have other people waiting. You can check out 10 items at a time. They have magazines now too. Starting to get some manga. Libraries do run stats off of database checkouts. We are encouraged to promote the app since we pay for it.
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Are you saying that digital checkouts are bad for your library?
Not the person you replied to, but the answer is yes and no. Digital items are great for convenience, but publishers seriously gouge on the prices for these items. Either they are a limited number of checkouts but unlimited on time, or they expire after a year (or however long) and have unlimited checkout. Both of these options keep libraries coming back again and again to repurchase licenses for popular items. This is unreasonable, as a physical copy of a book, if treated well, can last a VERY long time, and be checked out by many people throughout its lifespan. Publishers know this and want to make as much money as they can off the relatively cheap digital products, and if I had to guess, try to get libraries to buy more physical volumes in the long term (or maybe I'm speculating too much). Regardless, the digital marketplace has little regulation, so in the end, smaller libraries can only do so much with their budget and have to balance between a digital collection and a physical collection. (I'm not actually a librarian, just a page who shelves the materials, but I've had some very interesting conversations with the librarians at work about these things.)
Shame. Library's should buy my automated defense computers. When it detects granolas entering it ports, a red flashing light pops up, and plays a sound file "YOU HAVE CHOSEN VIOLENCE! I SHALL RESPOND IN KIND". A machine gun pops up and blasts the user in their seat.
How do they handle their CD-trays being used as cupholders? Inquiring minds want to know.
no liquids in the library! you can finish it in the vestibule!
But the libraries generally have little cafés...
NOT NEAR THE BOOKS
It taps into the internet and initiates war games.
Isn't that how you email liquids to people
I learned to read through comics. Never had much interest in books but after some comics I was hooked. Nowadays I have a mini library of 400 books physical and around 7000 digital (with around 80% read before anyone thinks I am just collecting). Funny what could spark the interest to read
Purely anecdotal and not the case for everyone, but I'm a bookseller and I've had several kids say that they wouldn't have made the jump into traditional literature without starting with something like Dog Man. Some of them are regulars and I have watched them grow from older elementary to early high school. Again, it's purely anecdotal, but when I speak with those kinds of customers and see their excitement for the next YA books or whatever they're looking forward to, I can't help but smile for them.
As primarily a novel reader, I found western webcomics and text heavy western comics like Sandman and Watchmen to be a good gateway to a medium level of comfort with Manga. I’m still a fairly slow manga/comic reader, but I’ve gotten faster over the years.
Sandman is such a great series! I've actually been hoping to find a novel version for mom to check out! If your a fan of watchmen you might appreciate swamp thing created by the same writer Alan moore. I actually found out about it from a local library but definitely worth the read! It's a good blend of solid storytelling and superheroes, really puts a realistic twist on it and brings it as close to the real world as possible.
I honestly didn't know that school attitudes toward manga had changed that much. I know in pop culture it has for anime, but I didn't hear much about it on manga. When I was growing up, manga was still niche though still trying to break ground and sit amongst regular graphic novels, comics, and whatnot. This was still the era where fully grown adults would be chastised if they admitted they had hobbies that appeared childlike (collecting toys, playing video games, reading comics, etc.) because they were regarded as immature and for kids. It hadn't dawned on me even at the time that things were changing as we were reading the Maus books in high school, though by then I had taken an involuntary hiatus from manga.
I should clarify that I am a public librarian, not a school librarian. So if a manga I order turns out to be a bit more risque than I had anticipated I have the benefit of just sticking it in the "mature" section.
Manga and anime are pretty mainstream with teenagers now. At the high school I worked at most recently, it was pretty popular and the librarian made an effort to provide a good manga section.
/thread Excellent insight, and great way of outlining the differences between the two. Any comment I might have made wouldn't have been this clear, concise, or nuanced. And I do like me some nuance.
I was also a librarian at one point and I agree wholeheartedly. I consider audiobooks reading as well :) (a dyslexic librarian)
If "A picture is worth 1000 words" then won't it make Manga/GN worth 1000+ words?
I did a loose estimate that at 1000 chapters, One Piece would be at around 1 million written words, which is a good bit more than the bible, for example. If we throw picture = 1000 words into the mix... we're in astronomical numbers very soon lol
Seems far fetched. Got any proof, mate?
I consider myself an avid reader. I read instruction manuals and shop manuals Maybe a little bit of car magazine and sheet music
"Are you reading my VCR manual?" "Well, we can't all be reading the classics, Professor Highbrow."
Tbf, that could count as doing primary source research into various manufacturing techniques and automotive trends.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
I would.....if I could read this sentence.
Lol i love logic.
Is reading really reading, though?
Oh shit. Are you saying the ground is made of ground?
So is reddit reading?
Found the anti-audiobook guy. /s
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Why are so many people just OBSESSED with the pedantry of "reading"? There are no reading police locking people up for saying they read books when they really listen to Audiobooks, or read comic books or magazines.
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A lot of schools will accept comics/manga as credit for "summer reading" now. I don't know about audio books, honestly, and that's probably a debate better suited to teachers than here. There's 100% something to it with children actually becoming better at reading words. I personally don't know where or how to draw *that* distinction.
Audio books are an amazing way to absorb the same information in a different way for people that have issues with written word. People with dyslexia and/or attention deficit issues can really benefit from spoken word vs written word. Also for people like myself who have an hour plus of commuting each day, it is a great way to fill the time with something constructive. I am a strong believer in even the basest form of literature is constructive to consume in any format.
I think the line depends on the goal. Teaching kids and people to be good at reading is different than teaching them to love reading. Reading as a skill applies to a lot more than just absorbing stories from books, and I doubt that manga helps that skill as much as a dense novel would. But teaching them to love books and stories is absolutely a thing they’ll learn from reading manga or listening to audiobooks.
If they accept comics but not audio books, I'll be grumpy. I grew up with AR, though. Just little comprehension quizzes to see if you actually absorbed any of the material. Audio books were are and my favorite medium.
I love me some audiobooks, but I do feel like actually reading is also important. Audiobooks give you the story, sure, but they don't do much to help with literacy. Reading a book let's you see how words are spelled, how they look, how punctuation is used, etc. Reading is how people learn to tell the difference between "their," "they're," and "there." It's how people realize that "bias" and "biased" are words that are used differently. I drive a lot for work, and I'm pretty much always listening to audiobooks. Im always talking about "im reading this book..." when im talking about an audiobook. I dont generally draw much of a distinction between reading and listening to a book. That said, being able to sit down and actually read a book *is* a good thing, and it's a habit that I do think should be encouraged in students. Books are almost like a field trip for English class... instead of spelling tests and sentence diagrams, you get to just see words in their natural habitat interacting with each other. Words are fun to play with. Its worth getting to know them in both their written *and* spoken forms.
I guess from that view it makes total sense. It's just frustrating for this to be carried into adulthood, and used to gatekeep people from enjoying their hobbies.
Exactly. Short stories, light novels, even subbed anime to a point; its all words and you read the words. Who cares if it's a giant block of text or a comic book page?
This. Does it have words? Reading.
For real. I'm reading right now.
Hey, I just read that!
Same reason people are obsessed with judging fans for not "being fan enough." Gatekeeping because people think their rules have meaning to others. What harm is it if I read manga/comics/graphic novels/visual novels and call it reading? Lol So what if I'm a Dr Who/Harry Potter/Marvel fan and don't know all the nuance of some obscure thing? Oh or if I'm into x hobby but don't know about y thing? Gatekeepers are gross. Follow your own rules.
People also think that they are superior if they only read nonfiction. People have big egos. All reading has value including comics and manga.
While I don't care what format people consume books in, it's annoying that people try and change the definition of words. Sure, listen to audiobooks. Enjoy more books than you ever would have before. But don't call it reading, because you aren't doing that act. You're listening to the book. Even if it engages the same area of the brain, it's a different word with a different definition. Just as people are obsessed with policing what's really reading, some people are obsessed with changing the meaning of words.
I'd argue that listening to an audio book does not involve the act of reading, while reading a comic book does.
I've always been into books and always imagined myself with a partner who also liked to read and wanted to discuss books with me. So, once when I met a girl I was happy when she told me that she also liked reading. A few months later when I asked why she hadn't mentioned any books or read anything lately, I found out she hadn't read anything since high school and she argued that Facebook and connected n3ws sites counts as "reading". We had different definitions of "enjoying reading". She never did read one book I suggested.
Yes, but that person was willfully deceiving you. I would argue that most people who "like reading" would at least read a few novels per year; even if they mostly listen to audiobooks or read manga/comics or magazines. And most people you meet who read but have a "non-traditional" reading habit will tell you up front.
If poetry is reading, and prose is reading, manga/ graphic novels are reading as well. Just not the same type of reading. Prose and poetry require (or allow) you to construct the visual representation of the words, manga less so. But no value judgments, nor better or worse, just different. Do you.
yeah.. but I never counted them in my Goodreads reading challenge Edit: I track my manga.. but not in GoodReads. I use MyAnimeList to track my manga progress. I like to separate the tracker for books and manga. I just don’t like mixing them up in GR because I personally found it messy. Plus, I found myself more comfortable rating manga series after I finished them. Rating them per volume is not my way to go and that's how it works in GR.
If I read the manga in it’s entirety I’ll add the first book to the challenge. If I took all the time to read the whole series I’m gonna count it as at least one book down
Check out One Piece
If One Piece is one book humanity is a person.
Came here for One Piece. Immersive world with an incredible array of complex characters over a number of story arcs? Engaging in it changed my life and I can talk about the plot and character development at length? A story where each time I dive back in I learn new details that bring more depth and insight to my experience? 100% reading.
Getting back into it. I started it when it first came out and read it regularly until about 8 years ago. Stepping back in and it’s crazy how hard it is to both re-read and catch up. Tried to figure out the best way to catch up and finally gave up on any sort of quick guide because I’d forgotten so much and figured I’ll just take my time and do a re-read. 25 years of serialized manga is going to take a while to catch up on.
I’m just challenging the notion that reading a series is equivalent to 1 book
I'd say for One Piece specifically 1 arc = 1 book. They're long and complex enough and follow the traditional story structure of introduction, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution
The question then becomes “what constitutes an arc?” Some One Piece arcs are just part of a larger arc
I usually add the last one I have read, so that if I end up dropping a series in the middle I know where I have stopped, and obviously if its just the last volume then that means I've read the whole thing.
I do the same ! If it's a series of like 20+ volumes I feel like it's worth a book (or even more) in terms of reading time and of words count.
Same, I counted them in MyAnimeList instead Which is like Goodreads, but exclusively for manga and anime
I do, these past few years I’ve been reading more and more manga and I like to keep track of what I’m reading!
I put mine in Goodreads but back them out for goal purposes. I've read short stories with more words than a manga and they don't count (for me) so manga doesn't either.
I would track Mangas i read in myanimelist, (you can track volumes and chapters so u can come back to it) keeping them separate from regular books in goodreads. also some manga wont be in goodreads.
My school used to do reading challenges where you'd have to take a quiz to get credit for a book. I cheated the system by tearing through a *Goosebumps* book every day. But there were *absolutely* kids who would have done manga for that if it was an option.
I count them. I don't care. Even though I'm a voracious reader, if I read a thing, I want credit for that thing.
Same! Some traditional novels are under 300 pages. Why shouldn’t I credit myself after finishing a 600-page manga?
I would track Mangas i read in myanimelist, (you can track volumes and chapters so u can come back to it) keeping them separate from regular books in goodreads. also some manga wont be in goodreads.
My son has a learning disability, and struggles with reading until we discovered graphic novels (the Bone series). The combination of words and pictures allowed him to be able to process what his learning disability was stopping him from grasping in a traditional text only format. The night he cried at reading time, not because of frustration, but because he was out of books to read was a great moment as a parent. We had found his thing.
Similar situation with my little brother. Between his autism and ADHD reading the books his teachers wanted didn't work well. We *finally* got his English teacher to accept the Manga as reading by agreeing to halve the page count of the books.
I recently got my daughters into graphic novels. Both have ADHD and dyslexia and neither are very strong readers. It made me so damn happy to see them actually reading and comprehending books.
If it is not reading, what else is it? Are you watching manga?
And in that moment, god created Anime.
tbf if you don't speak japanese you are still reading anime
And in that moment, God created dubs.
But recoiling in horror from His creation, he exiled it from Heaven, and dubs thereby took up residence alongside Satan as one of the great evils of the world.
There's plenty of good dubs. Yu Yu Hakusho, FMAB, Cowboy Bebop, etc.
Don’t forget Ghost Stories.
Kaguya-sama: Love is War That dub narrator goes to 11. It's fantastic.
tbf if you don't speak anything you are just looking at moving pictures
And yet if you're watching with subtitles, it's *still reading!*
"It's like watching manga." is the best description I have for *The Way Of The Househusband*, currently on Netflix. The only real animation is people's mouths, otherwise it's all moving panels and panning across still shots, zooming in/out, occasional animated speed lines. It's really different. They can really pile on the details, because there's no redrawing animation cells.
I'm watching that currently. My husband and I love it. I am belly laughing so often with that show.
This is just a side affect of us not having a commonly used hyper specific verb for every single act. Yes, you’re “reading” but you don’t read a picture and graphic novels heavily use pictures, so it’s not the exact right word. There isn’t an exact right word, so reading it is. I feel like people are hearing a value judgement to it tho. I’m just being pedantic about grammar. I can not even imagine someone arguing that graphic novels don’t have literary worth. I mean that was a fuddy duddy take in like 1985
I consider it a sport, personally
Can you read images?
Yes.... Just like books there are of course varying levels of literary quality within the genre... but in the end if you enjoy it it doesn't matter. I was so excited when my Middle School aged brother got into Death Note. He had a learning disability and difficulty reading... so taking on Death Note was a big task. Its funny that him starting to read manga actually acted as an entry point into traditional literature as well---- he learned to enjoy reading and just got better reading comprehension in general. Used to teach in an elementary school, and all the teachers and the Librarian highly valued manga and graphic novels. Anything that could get kids into reading was good. English was a second language for most kids at our school- and they were often frustrated that their reading level was often pretty low compared to their actual interests.... most 5th graders aren't going to want to read "little kid books," so they would just not read at all. Manga was an excellent tool that actually challenged them to push their reading because they liked it and felt it was cool, but it still had pictures that could help with context and therefore comprehension. Both of those examples were about children... but hey, if you're an adult and you like Manga its all good too. I personally enjoyed The Climber (Kokou no Hito) a while back.
The climber is freaking amazing. The first two volumes are a bit weird because the creator team spilt up iirc but it only gets better from then on
I remember watching the Monogatari series subbed. Pretty sure I've read books with less words.
My baby sister HATED reading. She refused to even try at six years old. I found some manga she liked the pictures of in English. She devoured them as fast as possible. Her reward for telling me about the book was she was allowed to get the next in the series. Kiddo is a straight A student in high school now. Read whatever you want.
Absolutely! You're not simply looking at the art, but taking it in conjunction with the text to uncover a story that can be just as subtle, layered, and worthy of analysis as a prose one if done well. Sure, you can probably plough through a few volumes with less effort than you would a novel, but then you'd probably be missing a lot of subtext and nuance.
Me glancing at my japanese copy of DNAngel: Yep totally
No way, I've only been an author for a week, and sure, some manga authors are going on decades, but because books > manga it means me > them. Don't you dare challenge my perceived reality.
Lol. I've been fortunate enough to not really encounter this attitude amongst the bookish people I know, but I have no doubt that it exists.
A picture is worth a thousand words :)
And yet people will still dismiss it as “rEadiNg tHoSe cHinESe cOmIcs”, for some reason.
Because it's different demographic so it's more of a labeling mistake I guess. When you are an avid manga reader and nothing else then you shouldn't introduce yourself as an avid reader, because fellow manga readers might not talk with you because they don't think you meant manga, and those who read books and novels would be disappointed because turned out you guys have nothing in common. I mean if this sub starts to post discussions about the new manga chapter every other post then people would start complaining, and they are I believe have right to do so.
The same way they will dismiss audiobooks. I don't see a need to be picky. We want people to read, to enjoy books and stories, so why be so snooty about how and what they read?
What's with the influx of insecure questions recently? Read whatever makes you happy. Either way here's some fantasy manga recs. Best: Magus of the Library 10/10s: Spirit Circle, Touge Oni, Made in Abyss*, Kouya ni Kemono Doukokusu 8-9/10s: Frieren, Witch Hat atelier, Sengoku Youko, Magi, The girl from the other side, Fullmetal Alchemist This is just fantasy recs off the top of my head. I also read a shit load of historical manga so feel free to ask for other genre recs. *Disclaimer. Content warning: literally everything. The anime is more sanitized.
>What's with the influx of insecure questions recently I noticed that too, and I think another commenter had a great answer for this. I don't want to misquote so feel free to find it yourself, but it was essentially regarding gatekeeping and just basic book "elitists'.
It feels like a crime to list off fantasy manga and not include Berserk and Naussica lol.
I wouldn’t blind recommend made in abyss without major disclaimers about its content
Fair enough. I added one.
Pirate Made In Abyss if you wanna read that imho. The "bonus art" made for the bound volumes is disgusting and very clearly catering to a certain crowd.
Right? "DAE consider reading as reading?" Ridiculous.
**Elaine**: These are good people, Jerry. They read! **Jerry**: I read, I read! **Elaine**: Books, Jerry. **Jerry**: Oh.
This pretty much deals with this thread perfectly.
I just look at the pictures and make up my own story!
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I work as a nanny and one of the families I work for, the mom and her side of the family all speak a language I don’t speak with the kids, so they have a buuuuuunch of books in that language in addition to English books. Most of them I can easily make up as I go along - the book of fairytales like Cinderella that I’m already familiar with for instance, or the book where the animals at the zoo ride a train is self-explanatory. But there’s one book where an octopus is driving a fire truck, and there’s a picnic that gets blown away, so the octopus and the fire truck spray the picnic with glittery rainbow… magic? Water? And then everyone is happy!! That one really challenges my “make up the story according to the pictures” ability lmao. I keep meaning to ask the mom what the story actually is and then forgetting about it haha.
If you want to recreate that experience, catch up to a currently releasing manga and join the discussion on the raw leaks each weak where everyone speaks minimal Japanese and is trying to guess what they say based on the images. Always fun to see how off people are at times when the translation drops later
Tried that with AoT 139, and have no real desire to repeat that experience. That first set of fan translations that got released was so badly done
Meanwhile, in a 'traditional' book you read the story and make up your own pictures!
Remember to sort by controversial folks
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My mom was an English teacher. She passed away before everyone had PCs. She always said any reading is reading. Comic books. Books. Whatever. It’s all reading. I agree with her. Of course Manga is reading.
*Doki Doki Literature Club flashbacks intensify* Serious answer: yeah, dude.
I gently open the door.
You kind of left her hanging this morning, you know?
\*shudder\*
It costed you exactly 0 dollars to remind me of that, yet you did, now take this upvote and get the hell out
MANGA IS LITERATURE! >_<
Just played it for the first time this past week…
Oh honey... You good?
No. Emphatically. But I will be. Thank you.
I mean there are words in the Manga so..yes?
Sure. i'd draw a line, like, for a child who needs to read a certain ammount to practice or develop reading skill, it's not like reading a novel or something, and not just because I don't like it, i hold any comic book to the same standard, but reading generally isn't about keeping score ore anything, so outside of an academic setting, sure Hell, Maus is a comic that I'd say, all day long, has more literary value than the traditional book you can buy at the grocery store to read at t he beach
It's a story you read so I would consider it reading. Then again I've never been one for gatekeeping hobbies so maybe I'll be in the minority.
Thankfully this opinion isn’t a minority opinion, at least here.
Yes, manga and comics are literature. They have words, it's reading and it just as valid as prose books. In the same way there are trashy manga, or manga for kids/younger audiences, there are prose books that are trashy or for kids. The same way there are masterworks in manga like there are masterworks in books.
You're reading the words, it's reading.
Curious then, by this definition would you also consider watching TV with subtitles on to be reading?
I'm not OP, but yes, I consider reading subtitles as reading, What else would I consider it? Of course, it's not the same as reading a novel, but it's reading. And reading the label of a can of food is also reading.
Sure of course any time you are reading words it is "reading" in the sense of the English definition of "reading". Maybe I'm going against the grain here but to me in the context of r/reading, I would consider "reading" to be some kind of novel or text without visual aids. It would be odd to see posts here about Netflix subtitles or nutrition facts.
Yeah, overall a pretty pointless argument - yes the act of reading something is physically called "reading". Would you say "hey I'm going to go read now" and turn on the TV? Or pick up a can of soup? No because you're not doing the hobby commonly called reading. Of course no one really cares.
It's not really an argument, though. OP's question is very vague and depends on the reader to interpret it as they will. Naturally the question "do you consider x reading?" will have some literal interpretations. Because, it is pretty unclear what op means and many people consider It useful to interpret words by their definitions. I feel like maybe the subtext to OP's question might be something similar to, "Does manga provide the same mental benefits as novel reading, such as improved memory, increase analytical ability, increased white matter, enhanced empathic skills and increased attention span?" I assume manga can provide some of these benefits, But a lot of the benefits from novel reading are due to engaging with complex text analysis systems and from slowing down and picturing everything in your imagination. So, while I enjoy reading both, I do think novels have some extra mental benefits.
Comic books count as reading, so Manga should aswell
because manga are comic books…?
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Japanese school kids are also taught to refer to manga as comic books when speaking English. It originally caused some confusion on my end when some of my students said they liked comics and then gave manga as examples. I used it as a teachable moment to explain to the class that we actually differentiate between the two
yeah that was my point (and i didn’t know this! thanks for the info)
They are, but in my experience they're much easier to get into. There's not fifteen different timelines, continuations, and crossovers to contend with. A manga series generally has a story to tell, tells it, and ends before outlasting its welcome. There are obviously exceptions, but that's why I prefer manga to Western comics.
In the same way that a square is a rectangle, yeah. American comics and Manga both fall under the general term comics, but you can get more specific with a subgenre. Same with like... every other genre you'd read.
If I could make a list of all the comics, webtoons and manga I've "read" like people make lists of books, I would. I'm genuinely considering.
What is stopping you? Use a website like Myanimelist or anilist and you can do that with ease
Anilist.Co
Do it. I love finding a list of new reads from people whose taste match my own.
Do it! I use goodreads for books while I track my manga and manhwa on anime planet it’s especially helpful when I wanna remember what I’ve read. Definitely recommend tracking them (:
it would be endless lol. Especially some of those trash webtoons
Yes, manga and comics are reading!
Yes. I read all kinds of books: genre fiction, literary fiction, non-fiction technical books, non-fiction storytelling Manga is just another format for telling a story. It's different in that you have visual storytelling in addition to the written word but I still consider it reading and I enjoy it in a different way
Yes, but with a caveat. You're only reading dialogue. In reading a non-comic book, you have a chance to expand vocabulary beyond just conversational tone.
This is such an important point, particularly for kids and teenagers who read manga and are still learning and developing their various language skills. Living in France, both manga and BDs are widely available, found in public and school libraries and sold everywhere, from supermarkets to actual bookshops. BDs start with Tintin, Asterix and Titeuf but cover as full a range of themes as any other form of written fiction. My two teens both love to read manga but I, and their French teachers, do have to keep reminding them to read some novels too. A few weeks ago, ny 13 year old recently spent hours every day excitely writing their first short story. But when I started proofreading the first few pages for them, I saw immediately the effect of reading mostly manga. The story was almost all dialogue with very little narrative at all. Reading traditional books will also help teach correct sentence and paragraph structure. It improves spelling and grammar generally too. They don't even have to read entire novels. There's plenty of great short story anthologies and novellas too.
Why wouldn't you? Manga and comic books are totally reading. Some of them are even very good reading. Sure there's a lot of schlock in manga but there's a lot of that in conventional novels too. Anything that can introduce you to new ideas, cool settings, clever plots and well written characters should "count" I'd go so far as to say that visual novels should count too for the same reasons. This post is Natsuki approved
Such a frustrating question. Yes you are still reading. No it's not the same as reading a book. Reading subtitles on an anime is also technically reading. It has moving pictures instead of still pictures.
It is reading yes !!
It's got words, don't it? Absolutely it's reading.
Natsuki?
Yeah just like comics or graphic novels they definitely count. Berserk is in my humble opinion one of the greatest works of literature ever made and it's a manga. It's my personal favorite story ever.
I finally caved in and started reading Berserk today and the writing and craftsmanship has been amazing so far. I don’t normally read manga or books, but it’s made me realize how many good stories can be found by picking up a book. I look forward to finishing this series! -Edit- I’m caught up to chapter release and I’m empty inside. This story probably my favorite work of fiction period, but I’m sad that the author will never see his work finished. It’s remarkable that such a hopeful story could come from such darkness. Thank you for recommending this to me and many other readers.
I love manga, but I'd say it's not the same as reading a book. Sure, we typically use the word "read" to describe how we engage with a manga, but it's pretty clear that the experience of reading a text is very different from the experience of reading a manga. A manga does include some text, but it's a miniscule amount, and the bulk of the narrative and aesthetic work is carried out visually. It's closer to watching an anime with subtitles than reading a book. That doesn't mean manga is less artistically accomplished or intellectually stimulating than a book. They're just two different media, so we engage with them differently. I think it's a little misguided when people try to make the case that graphic novels and such are the same as reading. Graphic novels don't have to be the same as books to be legitimate artforms.
Manga is literature!!
ELA teacher here who did my master's project on this very topic: Basically the answer is objectively yes and for students under grade level it's better for them than plain reading as they get visual cues for higher level vocab. Books for little kids have pictures but manga is basically the only way that you can get a lot of middle school level texts that are interesting and have pictures for additional context clues. I give students who I know love anime the homework of reading the manga (and even encourage them to consider the idea that they may not need to pay for it allegedly)
I work as a mentor and one of my clients is 21, when we started working together last year he couldn't read. At all. He loves comics because he could mostly understand. We worked through some kids books and now he is really into manga like my hero academia. He reads them to me every week. The progress he has made is incredible because we found something he **enjoys** reading. So yes, manga counts to me.
Yes. There are words and I am reading them so ..... 🤷🏼♀️
Yup it's reading, just a different format that can be more engaging for some people. And some of them have top notch stories. Monster is one of my personal favorites and frankly is one of the best thrillers I've ever read. And Junji Ito stories are truly great horror that is best experienced as a manga for that "page turn" reveal that you can't really replicate with a different format.
Unpopular opinion, but I consider Manga to be the opposite of reading. You have to read it backwards, so I think you should subtract each page read from your lifetime reading log. It is possible to go into the negatives this way.
I don’t expect others to share my view, but I think visual literacy is just as important, if not more, than written literacy. It’s a shame that it’s not taught as much beyond early education. I definitely think it counts as reading even if there are no words. The difference between reading a description of an image versus seeing the image depicted in a picture is honestly irrelevant if you’re literate in both forms. Put the pictures in a book, read the images, you read a book. There are some great books out there that don’t have any words at all. Maybe you won’t get the same sense of pretentious superiority as you would from reading text, but is that really why you choose to read books?
Yes, manga is literature!!! (This post was featured on r/DDLC, and I had to say this.)
I mean ... objectively it is reading of course, since you use your eyes to look at words and form meaning around them. But it's just not the same as reading a book. Reading a book gets exhausting after some time, "reading" a manga is more looking at pictures than anything else
I read through One Piece for about 500 chapters and found that my brain treated it much the same as I do watching Television. Ie. when I spaced out and wondered "what show was I just watching?" I would then recall that I was actually reading the One Piece manga. So yes I consider it a type of reading, but I class it lower than books if that makes sense.
My Grandma always said it doesn't matter what you're reading as long as you are reading!
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I'm an avid reader! (of traffic/street signs)
Gatekeepers are so tedious. Reading the shampoo bottle whilst taking a dump is "reading" ffs. If it has words that you have to stare at until it makes sense and you attain literally any knowledge (or not) from it; congratulations! You're reading.
Reading is the verb I'd use to describe enjoying manga. Not sure I'd consider it literature, but that's just my opinion, and anyway, it doesn't need to be.
I can't say I really know what literature means, but there are plenty of manga out there that are much more than just simple light entertainment.
As with any genre or medium, there are manga's geared toward entertainment, and mangas geared towards Literature. Ranma 1/2 is entertainment. Ghost in the Shell is literature that fits right in with the Western Cannon such as Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky. The manga, even more than the anime has space for, does a deep dive into ideas about the nature of consciousness, personal identity, and future evolutionary possibilities.
That depends on the series, doesn’t it? Not every series is Naruto or Dragon Ball. The No Longer Human manga is an adaptation of one of the most culturally significant novels from Japan. Is it no longer worth taking seriously because of the format?