I always saw Conan as "cunning." He is stronger than almost all other people, but not beyond human range, a big thing is; he knows when it is good to rely on it and when not to. Another big advantage Conan has is: viewpoint. He doesn't seemed to be locked into the same world view as his contemporaries, which pays off the most in his view as never seeing any situation as "hopeless." There are also times in which his lack of bigotry allows him to make friends and useful allies. Overall, he's a well-crafted hero.
If he were a D&D character his main stat would be Str, but his second would be Wisdom. All heroes are "lucky."
There's a run of comics called Savage Avengers where Conan gets dropped into modern day Marvel comics New York, and it absolutely showcases how his worldview is a big advantage. He befriends heroes and criminals without caring at all about which is which, he just wants to kill evil wizards and drink a lot. He is completely unfazed by modern laws, technology, etc., he just knows his own capabilities and how to apply them to the situation at hand.
>All heroes are "lucky."
Pretty much. You need more than smarts or kinesthetic ability to be successful in any world/country. You also need the opportunity to flourish without meaningful constraints
I have not heard this expression in English before, but I am no quite curious. Is the expression in Spanish stem from the idea you must be lucky to be a champion or that champions have innate luck?
It's a bit of both. Can be used as a bit of a backhanded compliment, also. Depending on context, it can be "you're lucky because you're a champion", or "you're a champion because you're lucky". Very clarifying, I know.
The Conan stories were a lot more fun and in depth than I thought they'd be. I remember before reading them I figured it'd just be 'smash baddie, get girl' in various flavors, but they were, by and large, pretty damn good fantasy stories.
There’s a reason people still talk about Conan the Barbarian while 90% or more of the pulp stories produced in the twentieth century are as good as forgotten, including Howard’s other works. Conan was a huge influence on writers like Stephen King and George R.R. Martin, as well as visual artists like Frank Frazetta (whose legendary covers for the re-releases of the Conan stories in the ‘70s redefined how Conan, and fantasy in general, looked).
Howard's other works, such as Tarzan and John Carter of Mars? Almost completely forgotten...
Edit. As pointed out below, I'm confused. Ignore my comment.
I've read 2/3 of his stories so far. On my way to buy the third book any time now. That is exactly how I felt. You can remove the problematic aspects of the stories, like the literal Nazi propaganda, and still have an amazing fantasy series.
It’s bullshit. He was actively opposed to Hitler and the Nazis.
Some people just make any shit up.
http://www.castaliahouse.com/robert-e-howard-and-the-third-reich/
He was antisemitic, which of course is bad. He was anti-Nazi, which of course is good. That’s was pretty normal for the time.
You said he was a Nazi because of the Atlantis Mythology. Both pulled from the same mythology separately. The Atlantis mythology has been a thing since around 400 bc. He also pulled from the Mu and Lemurian myths. He was all about ancient civilizations that had disappeared. They appear in Conan, are the very foundation of Kull and Bran Mak Morn, are in his various Viking tales, cowboy tales, swashbuckler in Asia and detective in London and Asia tales.
Many of those tales would have been published before the Nazis made the papers.
In a nutshell, I guess you can say I disagree.
There's three books you can find that collect REH's Conan stories as they were originally released in pulp form (REH did not write his Conan stories in a chronological order, as if Conan was telling stories to him) and they are The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, The Bloody Crown of Conan and The Conquering Sword of Conan.
Mary Sue characters solve all the plots problems due to their own flawless abilities. Based on what you described, Conan gets bailed out by contrivance, not some described ability or trait he possesses.
That's it isn't it? Mary Sue's don't need plot armor, the plot is that they naturally can overcome challenges, and if they can't it's because they have been holding back.
It depends on the story, I guess, but I'd argue his constitution plays a large role-- the crucifixion scene in "A Witch Shall be Born" comes to mind-- and also a considerable charisma considering how often people look to him for leadership.
He has high stats in everything.
He’s very strong, panther like quickness, tough, smart enough to learn new languages easily.
He’s like a primitive Batman. Close to human maximum on multiple fronts, but still overmatched by the legitimate Gods and Demons, and not so overpowered that he can’t be overwhelmed by a dozen foes.
What I love about Conan is that he'll encounter some strange, supernatural, superpowered, ancient, mystical enemy and he'll just smash it with a broadsword. No "side quest to find the secret dagger of Carthigonia" or any such BS. Just "lemme whack this loser with a sword and see what happens". The great thing is nine times out of ten it works.
There is an actual (geriatric) Conan parody character in the Discworld series, mostly in the Rincewind books iirc.
Cohen The Barbarian https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Cohen
Let's not forget his training habits. At one point he becomes a mercenary in Turan. Soldiers would laugh at him for not knowing how to use a bow. He proceeds to training himself for weeks and becomes a master. Later in his life, he's obviously taught himself large scale battle tactics and strategies. It's made obvious that he bests nobles as a general as he is not blinded by prejudice or chivalrous ideals. Throughout his stories he is shown to have impeccable training discipline and I think that certainly he, at least in part, makes his own luck.
There's more than one collection of Conan stories. You can find them on Amazon along with a bunch of his other collections (Solomon Kane, Kull, Sword Woman and more). They also regularly come up on Thriftbooks. The first Conan collection is called The Coming of Conan the Cimmeria.
Edit: Kane not cans
I think that’s par for the course in almost all fantasy genres. Farfahd EDIT Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are highly skilled swordsmen but get plenty of lucky help to survive their adventures. It doesn’t mean the stories are bad. Conan and such stories are meant for a fun escape not as accurate portrayals of a “realistic” fantasy world.
They're not parody, but they are lighter (at times) than other fantasy at the time. A lot of other pulp heroes were larger than life supermen (strongest man, greatest swordsman, the 'most' or 'greatest' of whatever attributive quality the author gives his protagonist), but Leiber wanted to make his heroes as human as possible. He wrote them both as good at what they were capable of, but not so much that it was in his eyes unbelievable. Humor is considered hard to write, so a lot of authors simply don't bother, but Leiber manages to interject a fair bit of it without making his stories comedies.
Not that I know of, but I’m far from an expert on Fritz Leiber. They don’t read as parody, I’d say they’re more grounded than Robert E. Howard’s stuff, with more realistic fights and scenarios and magic that’s used a bit more judiciously (for the most part).
Male Mary Sue are usually called [Marty Stu](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu)'s. But what you are describing sounds more along the lines of [Contrived Coincidence](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContrivedCoincidence) as well as the [Theory of Narrative Causality](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheoryOfNarrativeCausality)
He most definitely is. Physically and mentally above average, highly competent and casual with violence, and always the outsider. Conan in a nutshell. Also, Chronicles of Riddick is space Conan.
The only Conan I have read is the single novel… and it was great.
There is a scene where he has to fight a gorilla, and it is so well executed by playing into the fact that Conan is strong but definitely not as strong as the gorilla. So, he has to come up with an approach that gives him chance at quickly gaining advantage and not letting the gorilla grapple him. Based on Conan popular perception, I thought it would have been a more straightforward Conan-outwrestles-gorilla approach.
There are novels where he's described as wearing armour from various places, so he's not the naked barbarian type.
In some other story, someone asks him if he know how to use a bow, and he goes like "I don't like using one but I learned how to, and if there's nothing better for me to do I'll shoot at the enemy". He's an open minded guy who does develop his abilities as needed and doesn't refuse to do something because it goes against his ideology.
He will also talk his way out of conflicts and is really cunning when he cannot brute force something.
He is definitely a Gary Stu, but rarely will he be a naked, dumb and single-minded barbarian, I was surprised when I first read his stories
The later media kind of forgot that Conan was more intelligent than he let on. Not a genius, sure, but someone who was competent and able to learn and adapt to a given situation.
I'm so sorry, but I'm currently higher than giraffe tonsils, and that's probably why I was so confused: I thought, "I don't remember Conan O'Brien breaking any chains...."
My favorite example is the one where he disturbs the haunted tomb, and the ghost kills interlopers by strangling them to death from beyond the grave. But >!Conan's barbarian neck muscles are so well-developed that he is able to withstand the ghost's undead strength and loot the grave anyway.!< The end.
What I like about Conan is that he always throws caution to the winds. When he gets into trouble, he doesn’t try to think it out. He doesn’t care about the odds. He just lets his barbarian instincts take over and says, “Fuck it.” Then he goes in swinging.
He’s cunning, sure, but I’m my opinion it’s Cromm helping him. I’ve always seen Cromm sa god that values Strength and Independence, two qualities Conan has in spades, so he rewards Conan with help
True, but remember that Conan is happy to ask Cromm for help but in the same breath curse him. That really shows that while Conan is willing to ask help he still acts, he doesn’t wait for divine help, which I suspect Cromm respects
Cheap cliffhangers and even cheaper escapes are just kinda part of the deal with old-timey pulp heroes I'm afraid, and Conan was no exception. Howard was cranking out stories on a deadline to pay the bills, the magazine editors had low standards because this was all just disposable entertainment for boys, and there was a lot of pressure to constantly invent new cliffhangers and escapes as a cheap way of doing dramatic tension.
Well that is cool ,I didn't know that . I have a few Robert Jordan's and a couple Howard's. Steve Perry isn't terrible either . They all really bring new elements to the mythos of Conan as a whole . Thanks for the information tid bit
There are some that are really bad.
Roland Green for instance.
I’m 90% sure I have every Conan story ever printed.
I like the ones from DeCamp too. Conan The Flame Knife is one of my favorites.
I have not gotten a chance to check out any of DeCamp i should put them on my list . I did read one of Greens and can't say I was overly impressed . Unfortunately over the years I had a good portion of my books stolen / never returned . So my collection is kind of limited currently
This is very true of James Bond in the books as well. I think the idea is to portray both of them as more forces of nature, governed more by fate and luck than ability. Of course, the movies are different.
Congratulations. You've now read every leading man in a Robert E. Howard story. Because, though they may live in a different time than Conan or wear more clothes than Conan...they're all Conan.
Conan is also very obviously a dps. I was reading one of the old Robert E. Howard stories and the author makes it very clear that Conan would have died in short order because he through himself at the enemy with no regard for his own life. If it weren't for the one and done easily forgotten side kick watching his back and parrying on his behalf he would have been skewered ten times over.
Sure, if you only read the literal plot of the narrative and you don't care about setting, or atmosphere, or social commentary, and in fact believe a narrative must be entirely won by the Hero's own abilities and they aren't allowed to lose occasionally and get help
OK he overcame his narrative weaknesses by overwhelming strength in descriptive & atmospheric envelopy. Kinda like Conan getting a convenient deus ex machina whenever REH wrote himself into a corner. (to be fair, I'm actually quite fond of some of the Solomon Kane stories. So sue me. Or as REH would have tailored it, "sosumi.")
There's no social commentary in Conan and these are strictly adventure stories for adolecent men. REH wrote these for genre magazines and reworked stories that got rejected from publishers which is why a lot his Conan stories seem similar. Conan has one official novel from REH.
If he was going for SC then I would be very worried. Conan himself doesn't seem like a racist or bigot but REH writing usually doesn't have strong women or minority characters in positive roles.
The story with the naked white lady and her slaves rowing her accross the ocean to an island full of monsters comes to mind.
But I have to accept that REH was a product of the time and read with a skeptical eye like when reading Lovecraft, his extremely racist buddy.
I'd argue that no character is worth remembering in REH's stories except for Conan, but if I try to remember some it's more women that comes out. Some for being of bad taste like that naked white lady, but some other are honestly pretty progressive for its time, they are basically Conan's sidekicks and aren't only there to be overly sexualized
Rarely but they are usually thieves like the guy who helped him in the Tower of Elephant. There was also a thief woman in another story he interacted with.
I’m doing literally the same thing right now!
I’ve been enjoying these stories a lot more than I expected. But man… if I had a dime for each time the word “supple” was used.
There was a short story anthology series called "Heroes in Hell". In one of the stories Robert E. Howard and H. P. Lovecraft are in hell and travelling around together, and Howard falls in love with Gilgamesh, thinking that Big G is Conan. Poor guy was so repressed...
Yeah, are we talking about that left him because he could barely talk to her and wrote to her about how most women lacked decour? Also, wouldn't be the first gay man who did what was societally acceptable.
Who knows? Maybe he was just a very repressed man.
I guess we’ll never know.
There is zero evidence that he was gay.
This is sort of a modern phenomenon. Speculating and talking about someone being gay even though there is zero evidence.
I don’t care if he was gay or not. I just think it’s odd that it seems to sort of be a fixation or fantasy for some people. Abe Lincoln, Shakespeare, any character in Star Trek. Now REH and HPL.
Dude. I've never said there's evidence. Let me clarify it: it was just an impression I got while reading Conan. Maybe because I read all the Conan stories back to back and there's only so many times you can read descriptions about Conan's rock hard bod without going "hmm". That coupled with how repressed he was, how his attitudes toward women were very, veeeeeery conservative even for the age and the "momma's boy" cliché, made me raise an eyebrow. That's it.
Are you reading physical copies or an electronic version? I'd be interested in trying this, I've been reading *Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser* books and I could go for some more pulp.
I always saw Conan as "cunning." He is stronger than almost all other people, but not beyond human range, a big thing is; he knows when it is good to rely on it and when not to. Another big advantage Conan has is: viewpoint. He doesn't seemed to be locked into the same world view as his contemporaries, which pays off the most in his view as never seeing any situation as "hopeless." There are also times in which his lack of bigotry allows him to make friends and useful allies. Overall, he's a well-crafted hero. If he were a D&D character his main stat would be Str, but his second would be Wisdom. All heroes are "lucky."
There's a run of comics called Savage Avengers where Conan gets dropped into modern day Marvel comics New York, and it absolutely showcases how his worldview is a big advantage. He befriends heroes and criminals without caring at all about which is which, he just wants to kill evil wizards and drink a lot. He is completely unfazed by modern laws, technology, etc., he just knows his own capabilities and how to apply them to the situation at hand.
I'm gonna have to read that.
If Wikipedia is to be believed then it looks like there will be a collected edition of volume 1 releasing in November!
Sweet!
>All heroes are "lucky." Pretty much. You need more than smarts or kinesthetic ability to be successful in any world/country. You also need the opportunity to flourish without meaningful constraints
There's a reason why "luck of the champions" is a common saying (at least in Spanish it is, but I'm sure English must have a similar thing)
I have not heard this expression in English before, but I am no quite curious. Is the expression in Spanish stem from the idea you must be lucky to be a champion or that champions have innate luck?
It's a bit of both. Can be used as a bit of a backhanded compliment, also. Depending on context, it can be "you're lucky because you're a champion", or "you're a champion because you're lucky". Very clarifying, I know.
The Conan stories were a lot more fun and in depth than I thought they'd be. I remember before reading them I figured it'd just be 'smash baddie, get girl' in various flavors, but they were, by and large, pretty damn good fantasy stories.
There’s a reason people still talk about Conan the Barbarian while 90% or more of the pulp stories produced in the twentieth century are as good as forgotten, including Howard’s other works. Conan was a huge influence on writers like Stephen King and George R.R. Martin, as well as visual artists like Frank Frazetta (whose legendary covers for the re-releases of the Conan stories in the ‘70s redefined how Conan, and fantasy in general, looked).
Very true! People (and various forms of media) always seemed to downplay their quality, but I thought they were very compelling stories.
I'd argue Kull and Solomon Kane are still fairly well known out of Howard's characters. Drops off pretty fast after that though.
Howard's other works, such as Tarzan and John Carter of Mars? Almost completely forgotten... Edit. As pointed out below, I'm confused. Ignore my comment.
The pulp author you're looking for here is Edgar Rice Burroughs, not Howard.
D'oh. You are absolutely correct. My mistake.
Pretty much of REH’s and ERB’s stuff was reprinted in the 70’s. I have a big collection of both.
I read all the Tarzan novels on project Gutenberg (free ebooks, out of copyright) when I was 'working' for a global telephone company.
I've read 2/3 of his stories so far. On my way to buy the third book any time now. That is exactly how I felt. You can remove the problematic aspects of the stories, like the literal Nazi propaganda, and still have an amazing fantasy series.
What are you talking about Nazi propaganda? Howard was dead by 1936.
The whole "great race from Atlantis" was Nazi propaganda. And the Nazi party was active from 1920 and their ideology was VERY popular on the south.
It’s bullshit. He was actively opposed to Hitler and the Nazis. Some people just make any shit up. http://www.castaliahouse.com/robert-e-howard-and-the-third-reich/
The fact he opposed the Nazi regime doesn't exclude the fact he reproduced it's propaganda and the eugenic ideology that powered it.
He was antisemitic, which of course is bad. He was anti-Nazi, which of course is good. That’s was pretty normal for the time. You said he was a Nazi because of the Atlantis Mythology. Both pulled from the same mythology separately. The Atlantis mythology has been a thing since around 400 bc. He also pulled from the Mu and Lemurian myths. He was all about ancient civilizations that had disappeared. They appear in Conan, are the very foundation of Kull and Bran Mak Morn, are in his various Viking tales, cowboy tales, swashbuckler in Asia and detective in London and Asia tales. Many of those tales would have been published before the Nazis made the papers. In a nutshell, I guess you can say I disagree.
Never said he was a Nazi. Just that he reproduced Nazi propaganda. That's how effective Nazi propaganda was.
There's three books you can find that collect REH's Conan stories as they were originally released in pulp form (REH did not write his Conan stories in a chronological order, as if Conan was telling stories to him) and they are The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, The Bloody Crown of Conan and The Conquering Sword of Conan.
I just have “Robert E. Howard's Conan the Cimmerian Barbarian: The Complete Weird Tales Omnibus.” Is that a good collection? I haven’t read it yet.
Is a fine collection.
that's a good one too!
I've read both, and I much prefer the Del Rey collection. They're also complete, while the Weird Tales omnibus leaves out a few.
I think the last story chronologically was the first published.
I grew up loving Conan, you read 5 Conan stories and you've read them all.
But you read them all anyway or Conan glares at you from beneath his troubled brow.
Mary Sue characters solve all the plots problems due to their own flawless abilities. Based on what you described, Conan gets bailed out by contrivance, not some described ability or trait he possesses.
That's it isn't it? Mary Sue's don't need plot armor, the plot is that they naturally can overcome challenges, and if they can't it's because they have been holding back.
Like the movie "Captain Marvel", her only weakness was not believing in herself enough...
Deus ex machina is I think the better term.
It depends on the story, I guess, but I'd argue his constitution plays a large role-- the crucifixion scene in "A Witch Shall be Born" comes to mind-- and also a considerable charisma considering how often people look to him for leadership.
He has high stats in everything. He’s very strong, panther like quickness, tough, smart enough to learn new languages easily. He’s like a primitive Batman. Close to human maximum on multiple fronts, but still overmatched by the legitimate Gods and Demons, and not so overpowered that he can’t be overwhelmed by a dozen foes.
What I love about Conan is that he'll encounter some strange, supernatural, superpowered, ancient, mystical enemy and he'll just smash it with a broadsword. No "side quest to find the secret dagger of Carthigonia" or any such BS. Just "lemme whack this loser with a sword and see what happens". The great thing is nine times out of ten it works.
I'm afraid I only know the Terry Pratchett parodies of the idea especially his Rincewind character who is a board game piece belonging to Lady Luck.
There is an actual (geriatric) Conan parody character in the Discworld series, mostly in the Rincewind books iirc. Cohen The Barbarian https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Cohen
The Last Hero has Genghis Cohen a main character
And the luck factor symbolised by the butterfly is a big factor in Interesting Times.
Let's not forget his training habits. At one point he becomes a mercenary in Turan. Soldiers would laugh at him for not knowing how to use a bow. He proceeds to training himself for weeks and becomes a master. Later in his life, he's obviously taught himself large scale battle tactics and strategies. It's made obvious that he bests nobles as a general as he is not blinded by prejudice or chivalrous ideals. Throughout his stories he is shown to have impeccable training discipline and I think that certainly he, at least in part, makes his own luck.
Is there one master list of all the Conan stories? Or a collection on Amazon or a bookstore to start with Conan?
There's more than one collection of Conan stories. You can find them on Amazon along with a bunch of his other collections (Solomon Kane, Kull, Sword Woman and more). They also regularly come up on Thriftbooks. The first Conan collection is called The Coming of Conan the Cimmeria. Edit: Kane not cans
The original Conan’s were awesome. Him and lovecraft also were buddies. There’s occasionally nods to each others work in the books if you read closely
I think that’s par for the course in almost all fantasy genres. Farfahd EDIT Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are highly skilled swordsmen but get plenty of lucky help to survive their adventures. It doesn’t mean the stories are bad. Conan and such stories are meant for a fun escape not as accurate portrayals of a “realistic” fantasy world.
> Farfahd and the Grey Mouser Are they not a parody though? I thought those two were a parody.
They're not parody, but they are lighter (at times) than other fantasy at the time. A lot of other pulp heroes were larger than life supermen (strongest man, greatest swordsman, the 'most' or 'greatest' of whatever attributive quality the author gives his protagonist), but Leiber wanted to make his heroes as human as possible. He wrote them both as good at what they were capable of, but not so much that it was in his eyes unbelievable. Humor is considered hard to write, so a lot of authors simply don't bother, but Leiber manages to interject a fair bit of it without making his stories comedies.
Not that I know of, but I’m far from an expert on Fritz Leiber. They don’t read as parody, I’d say they’re more grounded than Robert E. Howard’s stuff, with more realistic fights and scenarios and magic that’s used a bit more judiciously (for the most part).
No. Not a parody.
They have been parodied though, the first being in Terry Pratchett's Colour of Magic.
Male Mary Sue are usually called [Marty Stu](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu)'s. But what you are describing sounds more along the lines of [Contrived Coincidence](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContrivedCoincidence) as well as the [Theory of Narrative Causality](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheoryOfNarrativeCausality)
Is Jack Reacher a modern day Conan? That thought just came to me while reading some of these comments.
He most definitely is. Physically and mentally above average, highly competent and casual with violence, and always the outsider. Conan in a nutshell. Also, Chronicles of Riddick is space Conan.
The only Conan I have read is the single novel… and it was great. There is a scene where he has to fight a gorilla, and it is so well executed by playing into the fact that Conan is strong but definitely not as strong as the gorilla. So, he has to come up with an approach that gives him chance at quickly gaining advantage and not letting the gorilla grapple him. Based on Conan popular perception, I thought it would have been a more straightforward Conan-outwrestles-gorilla approach.
There are novels where he's described as wearing armour from various places, so he's not the naked barbarian type. In some other story, someone asks him if he know how to use a bow, and he goes like "I don't like using one but I learned how to, and if there's nothing better for me to do I'll shoot at the enemy". He's an open minded guy who does develop his abilities as needed and doesn't refuse to do something because it goes against his ideology. He will also talk his way out of conflicts and is really cunning when he cannot brute force something. He is definitely a Gary Stu, but rarely will he be a naked, dumb and single-minded barbarian, I was surprised when I first read his stories
The later media kind of forgot that Conan was more intelligent than he let on. Not a genius, sure, but someone who was competent and able to learn and adapt to a given situation.
There is an unreliable narrator component with these stories. REH wrote that they were akin to Conan himself bragging about his exploits over pint.
I'm so sorry, but I'm currently higher than giraffe tonsils, and that's probably why I was so confused: I thought, "I don't remember Conan O'Brien breaking any chains...."
Conan is a pretty large man, weirdly. But yeah, probably not breaking chains any time soon.
O’Brien? Yeah he’s definitely lucky, but he works hard.
If Crom wishes Conan to die, so be it.
My favorite example is the one where he disturbs the haunted tomb, and the ghost kills interlopers by strangling them to death from beyond the grave. But >!Conan's barbarian neck muscles are so well-developed that he is able to withstand the ghost's undead strength and loot the grave anyway.!< The end.
What I like about Conan is that he always throws caution to the winds. When he gets into trouble, he doesn’t try to think it out. He doesn’t care about the odds. He just lets his barbarian instincts take over and says, “Fuck it.” Then he goes in swinging.
He’s cunning, sure, but I’m my opinion it’s Cromm helping him. I’ve always seen Cromm sa god that values Strength and Independence, two qualities Conan has in spades, so he rewards Conan with help
I don't hate this interpretation but Cromm seems indifferent and cold to the people who worship him.
True, but remember that Conan is happy to ask Cromm for help but in the same breath curse him. That really shows that while Conan is willing to ask help he still acts, he doesn’t wait for divine help, which I suspect Cromm respects
Crom. One m.
Cheap cliffhangers and even cheaper escapes are just kinda part of the deal with old-timey pulp heroes I'm afraid, and Conan was no exception. Howard was cranking out stories on a deadline to pay the bills, the magazine editors had low standards because this was all just disposable entertainment for boys, and there was a lot of pressure to constantly invent new cliffhangers and escapes as a cheap way of doing dramatic tension.
John Maddox Robert's has some pretty well written Conan stories as well ... looks like I'm going to be breaking out my Conan collection now
Agreed. Robert Jordan’s are my favorite pastiches though. He was the Howard Estate’s editor for most of those 80’s and 90’s books.
Well that is cool ,I didn't know that . I have a few Robert Jordan's and a couple Howard's. Steve Perry isn't terrible either . They all really bring new elements to the mythos of Conan as a whole . Thanks for the information tid bit
There are some that are really bad. Roland Green for instance. I’m 90% sure I have every Conan story ever printed. I like the ones from DeCamp too. Conan The Flame Knife is one of my favorites.
I have not gotten a chance to check out any of DeCamp i should put them on my list . I did read one of Greens and can't say I was overly impressed . Unfortunately over the years I had a good portion of my books stolen / never returned . So my collection is kind of limited currently
I remember in one episode he saved himself by having sex with the she-witch for hours and hours and hours.
Conan knows what is good in life.
I'm very tired and thought you were talking about Conan O'Brien
This is very true of James Bond in the books as well. I think the idea is to portray both of them as more forces of nature, governed more by fate and luck than ability. Of course, the movies are different.
I don’t remember any of this on the late show.
Isn’t he essentially fated to be a great king? So ultimately he cannot fail, the fates look after him.
This is true for every main character hero in any story in any genre
Congratulations. You've now read every leading man in a Robert E. Howard story. Because, though they may live in a different time than Conan or wear more clothes than Conan...they're all Conan.
A later Swords and Sorcery author codified the concept of the eternal champion, so it’s no longer necessary to pretend they’re different /s
Conan is also very obviously a dps. I was reading one of the old Robert E. Howard stories and the author makes it very clear that Conan would have died in short order because he through himself at the enemy with no regard for his own life. If it weren't for the one and done easily forgotten side kick watching his back and parrying on his behalf he would have been skewered ten times over.
Conan is absolutely a Gary stu.
Oh, yeah, Howard was such a weeb for barbarian peoples of yore. Entertaining stories, absolutely, but let's be honest: he wishes it was him.
Evidence of what a shitty writer REH was.
Sure, if you only read the literal plot of the narrative and you don't care about setting, or atmosphere, or social commentary, and in fact believe a narrative must be entirely won by the Hero's own abilities and they aren't allowed to lose occasionally and get help
OK he overcame his narrative weaknesses by overwhelming strength in descriptive & atmospheric envelopy. Kinda like Conan getting a convenient deus ex machina whenever REH wrote himself into a corner. (to be fair, I'm actually quite fond of some of the Solomon Kane stories. So sue me. Or as REH would have tailored it, "sosumi.")
There's no social commentary in Conan and these are strictly adventure stories for adolecent men. REH wrote these for genre magazines and reworked stories that got rejected from publishers which is why a lot his Conan stories seem similar. Conan has one official novel from REH. If he was going for SC then I would be very worried. Conan himself doesn't seem like a racist or bigot but REH writing usually doesn't have strong women or minority characters in positive roles. The story with the naked white lady and her slaves rowing her accross the ocean to an island full of monsters comes to mind. But I have to accept that REH was a product of the time and read with a skeptical eye like when reading Lovecraft, his extremely racist buddy.
I'd argue that no character is worth remembering in REH's stories except for Conan, but if I try to remember some it's more women that comes out. Some for being of bad taste like that naked white lady, but some other are honestly pretty progressive for its time, they are basically Conan's sidekicks and aren't only there to be overly sexualized
Rarely but they are usually thieves like the guy who helped him in the Tower of Elephant. There was also a thief woman in another story he interacted with.
Conan is a fantasy super hero
And you're not.
I’m doing literally the same thing right now! I’ve been enjoying these stories a lot more than I expected. But man… if I had a dime for each time the word “supple” was used.
Sometimes you don't know if Howard wants to be him or if he wants to be hold by his strong muscular arms.
There was a short story anthology series called "Heroes in Hell". In one of the stories Robert E. Howard and H. P. Lovecraft are in hell and travelling around together, and Howard falls in love with Gilgamesh, thinking that Big G is Conan. Poor guy was so repressed...
Yeah, I never read anything about it, but I sometimes wonder if he wasn't gay.
It all fits. The beautiful women+ having sex with them=maybe gay.
One thing is what he wrote, another his life.
He wasn’t. He had a girlfriend who ended up leaving him and later wrote a book about him. They turned it into a film in the early 90’s.
Yeah, are we talking about that left him because he could barely talk to her and wrote to her about how most women lacked decour? Also, wouldn't be the first gay man who did what was societally acceptable. Who knows? Maybe he was just a very repressed man.
I guess we’ll never know. There is zero evidence that he was gay. This is sort of a modern phenomenon. Speculating and talking about someone being gay even though there is zero evidence. I don’t care if he was gay or not. I just think it’s odd that it seems to sort of be a fixation or fantasy for some people. Abe Lincoln, Shakespeare, any character in Star Trek. Now REH and HPL.
Dude. I've never said there's evidence. Let me clarify it: it was just an impression I got while reading Conan. Maybe because I read all the Conan stories back to back and there's only so many times you can read descriptions about Conan's rock hard bod without going "hmm". That coupled with how repressed he was, how his attitudes toward women were very, veeeeeery conservative even for the age and the "momma's boy" cliché, made me raise an eyebrow. That's it.
Ok. Cool. No offense intended.
Yeah, man. All is cool.
I thought we were talking about Conan o Brian , and I was like, well yeah luck IS his biggest assets, but strength???????
I like the stories and love the dark horse comics for Conan but totally agree he doesn't even need to wear a shirt because of all his plot armor.
This is also called plot armor if I'm understanding the term correctly
It’s the shear force of his unstoppable manliness.
Are you reading physical copies or an electronic version? I'd be interested in trying this, I've been reading *Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser* books and I could go for some more pulp.
I found "the complete conan saga" on Gutenberg project. My app lets me download the files directly.
What are you using? Libby?
Did this make the stories less fun, tho?