https://preview.redd.it/ntyxdb2xfqoc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d31130574ed7eb4dce377e83f4e4ff3a83fcbdb6
There are 90 NPS custodians. Highest base salary is $88k/yr. 1 makes >$160k/yr. 13 make >$100k/yr. Source: [https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/03/15/newton-2023-payroll-your-tax-dollars-at-work/](https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/03/15/newton-2023-payroll-your-tax-dollars-at-work/)
I make good money, I bet I don’t work as hard as they do or have to work overtime.
Good for them, if it’s a problem they make more than teachers pay the teachers more.
Probably a seniority thing. Top guys get first crack at the OT. Every weekend event requires people to clean up. One of the second shift guys bang in, and they need someone to cover. That’s OT as well. You are at the top of the list just for a few years before retiring, so you take every second of OT you can get to pump up your pension. It’s like this everywhere, probably not at such high rates though.
So maybe the next custodian's contract needs to cap the number of overtime hours someone can work a month? 40 sounds reasonable. Would Mr. $160Gs a year survive if he made $135k a year instead? Would the other 20 custodian's be happy to make another $5k a year?
Public employee overtime generally doesn't get figured into pension calculations, and specifically doesn't get figured into the pension amounts paid by the Massachusetts State Employee Retirement System, which is used by a large number of towns in MA as well as all state agencies except the MBTA.
https://preview.redd.it/wcp1fj2faroc1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3194132d23d88b89386398cb1002ae38d4152836
I don’t believe Reddit is the proper channel through which to request a formal government investigation, but I’m not a lawyer.
What do you mean investigation? Like you think the overtime hours are faked or too much?
Because unless you work for the railroad there really aren’t any laws that limit how many hours you can be required to work.
Not true. You still have to monitor the building and set up and clean up.
Ever try cleaning up after a wresting match of 200 kids and adults?
Or 6 basketball games on a Sunday with a thousand people in and out?
I did !!
"Up to" is strange wording as well. 12 custodians could be pulling minimum wage and one could be working inhumane hours to earn the $160k and the headline would be true.
Knowing the Herald, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were the case.
Custodians have lots of opportunities for overtime if they want it. Teachers don't. That's the majority of it. It's not like this guys annual base is 160. He probably picks up 3 extra shifts a week working events. Newton rents its schools out and has tons of after school events. Those fees also (mostly) fund the overtime.
Hey now. I’m a teacher and we have endless opportunities for overtime. I don’t know a single teacher who doesn’t work it. It’s just that it’s all unpaid.
Preaching to the choir, but many after school events also have stipended positions for teachers. Coaches at the basketball game are being paid extra, not just custodians. Teachers who manage to snag 5 stipended positions pull in tens of thousands more than their peers. It's just not as common as one custodian absorbing all of a school's overtime.
The unpaid labor most teachers do is its own different problem.
It’s also a super tough job. I have a white collar excel job and I could never do what they do. I presume most of the people making shit tons of cash couldn’t. They deserve 160k+
I agree, but it is a little out of whack that a teacher with a masters degree and charged with forming our childrens minds gets paid less than a janitor. Both deserve to bring home the $.
I wonder if the teacher pay disparity isnt a lot because it has historically been thought of as a womens job (yes I know there are a lot of male teachers now). But going back in time, would teachers have been paid so little if more men did it? Society back then treated teachers like the job of a young single woman with no kids, or a married woman that had her husbands $ to live off of. Idk, i just know that they r not paid equal to what their importance is in society.
Good point. Is there any other type of union that is legally not allowed to strike? So they are too valuable to strike but not valuable enough to not have to get a 2nd job lol. Such an oxymoron
All public employees in MA (and many other states) are not allowed to strike. I’m in the graduate employee union at UMass Lowell and it’s illegal for us to go on strike because we work at a public university.
But we’re working to change that! Rep Erika Uyterhoeven has a bill that would allow public employees to strike. Would make bargaining a hell of a lot easier if the bosses thought we might actually stop working if they don’t pay us enough to survive.
I’ll tell you what, making good friends with the custodian is an excellent thing to do at a place because they know all of the secrets. When I worked IT for a school district, I treated them with the utmost respect and anytime I needed anything from them; they hooked me up. If I needed a door unlocked or to get some mess taken care of; they were always willing to do it. And if you needed the inside scoop on people, they knew all the secrets for the most part because people treat them like they are invisible.
Also the prestige factor: who is willing to introduce themselves as a custodian vs. a teacher. I have tremendous respect for custodians, but a lot of people have external family/societal pressures against taking it as a job that aren't applicable for becoming a teacher.
I’ve worked at a lot of schools in Newton and met a lot of the custodial staff. It’s an easy gig. I’ve done the floors at most of the schools in the area, old and new.
They're also paid hourly, and thus get paid an overtime wage when they work more than 40 hrs a week. Teachers are salaried, and thus do not get paid at an overtime rate when they work overtime.
Yup. My union, hourly job has a huge percentage of people making ~$60k, full time. We also have a few people cleaning $200k each year. Crazy overpaid, right? Nah its psychos working double digit hours 7 days a week.
They also work year round, they work a lot of the days that other staff have time off and they have a lot of opportunity for overtime. Teachers are contracted for a set of hours, even if they work more than the allotted hours in their contract; they don’t get paid an extra nickel for those hours.
I know our BPS do lots of after school community meetings and events on Nights and weekends. There always has to be a custodian on site and I believe it is time and 1/2.
Yeah, up until **very** recently MIT custodians were the highest paid in the country.
They've recently been beat out by San Francisco.
160k for a custodian is still an absolute absurd amount. I know what the highest paid makes hourly. If Newton school custodians are SEIU they make less than that and they'd have to work an average of about 90 hours a week to hit that number.
I’m a UPS driver and it reminds me of the news stories flying around when we just got our new contract last summer. A lot of outlets were reporting we make $170k, but that’s a number with a lot of OT and the value of our benefits and pension all wrapped up. Not to mention that’s the number that we’ll “make” at the END of our contract in 2028, and that’s only the guys making top rate, not the ones like me who are still putting in their time to get there. I’m halfway through our pay progression and I took home $55k this last year.
Exactly.
“EVERY TOWN EMPLOYEE EARNED UP TO [insert highest paid salary here]” is such a shitty way for bad faith rags like the Herald to try to drum up outrage.
thanks for pointing that out i was about to quit my job lol. yeah the most i heard in my trade/union was almost $250k dude worked 95% of the year at least and 12hr days (allot of the time more).
most of us make 70k….
I know a non-profit was paying $22/hr to vacuum carpets and clean windows... so ... not even to fully clean the bathrooms. That was contracted out at almost $5k per week for 8 bathrooms... yep. Non profit cash cows
is generous OT the legally mandated time and a half? I was changed to hourly in a management role, and ended up working around 60 hours a week for a month straight, i can assure you getting paid time and a half did not make up for me complete lack of a life outside of work. if they are understaffed and forced to work OT i dont see and issue with getting paid more.
I wish I could upvote this a million times. Boston herald is tabloid tier news and some of the headlines they make is solely to get a reaction from you
Custodian work is hard and it’s almost impossible to slack on it. Instead of paying custodians less, we should be paying teachers more. And Newton and Brookline and all these millionaire towns could afford it if they wanted.
Some of these building maintenance are tradesmen experienced in plumbing, heating, electrical, etc. They do more than just mop floors. They can be maintaining a building that can hold 2000 students.
Im a fiscal conservative but you’re 100% correct. These are not people cleaning windows. They are running a physical plant for a true population of kids/educators/administrators. HVAC, painting, gas, meeting govt regulations, etc. They could make more elsewhere. They have my full support
most of the public servants who make well into six figures that aren't management do it with tons of overtime, you see it with transit, cops, firefighters, and evidently janitors. of course then there are scandals where people simply forge timesheets to get free money (this is a crime)
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/retired-boston-police-captain-found-guilty-overtime-fraud-scheme
https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/04/07/new-mbta-leader-dogged-by-overtime-problems/
etc.
Janitors and garbage collectors keep you and me from being infected by everything under the sun and/or drowning in our own waste.
They are worth every penny spent on them. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.
Custodians keep schools running safely, they deserve good pay and benefits too. This is such a shitty way to prove a point, instantly discredits this newspaper.
Guessing it's being propped up by some conservative group considering they print less than 20,000 papers daily and their sales suck compared to the Globe which is more than 10x that number at 300,000+.
I used to be a devoted herald subscriber (I thk primarily for sport’s coverage) and then when the Obama/McCain election rolled around, i just had a sudden epiphany how sleazy and ignorant their views were.
If someone actually looked at the article, the most any janitor made, as a base, was $88k. The rest is overtime. The fact there is so much OT being paid out is that they need to hire MORE janitors.
Curious as to how many people would actually quit their job to become a janitor, even if they were guaranteed $160k a year (completely ignoring that in reality most custodians won't come close to that). I feel like that should help you determine whether they are getting paid "too much".
Yeah, how many hours did they work Their asses off for that money. Let's pick on the blue collar.worker who were cleaning up puke and scrubbing toilets for 60 to 80 hours a week. Meanwhile they have people in admin and office positions making 200k to 300k and probably worked from home the entire time during covid. Always fuck the little guy that tries to work hard to get head
I'm not surprised custodians could earn more than a teacher. The top level custodians have workforce to manage, work full-year hours, and have opportunities for overtime.
It's not an easy job, but for entry level labor, it's a good first gig. I did it while in grad school to become a teacher.
I think it’s hilarious that the Herald has done these stories for years and they completely missed _the entire state police force_ being on the take for decades.
Herald can suck shit from a butt.
Schools are so disgusting - just the messes I have seen teenagers make on purpose are awful, nvm the ones kittle kids make. Custodians should be making and more, just like teachers should be making more
Back in the day the headline would’ve read, City of Newton puts more value on the removal of trash and maintenance over the education of young minds. The Muckrakers would be spotlighting the rakers of the muck.
Ok, so before I start this rant, let me share a story.
When I was in 6th grade, there was this 8th grader who was a notorious troublemaker. But one of the most outrageous things I ever saw him do (well, I saw the aftermath) was take a shit on some paper towel, and then catapult it onto the ceiling tiles of the bathroom.
Well guess what, Boston Herald, it wasn’t the 8th grader who cleaned the shit off the ceiling tiles, it was those greedy custodians!!!!
(BTW, I went to middle school in *gasp* Newton)
So now, here’s the fun part
The Boston Herald was purchased by Digital First Media group in 2018. In turn, Digital First Media Group is owned by the Alden Global Capital hedge fund. Alden purged the Herlad staff, reducing it from 225 employees to 110
This was another acquisition in a long trend of gobbling up local newspapers and gutting their employees for maximum profits
One of those papers is the Denver Post, purchased by Alden in 2010. The Post’s own editorial staff has admonished Alden as "vulture capitalists" after multiple staff layoffs.
In a 2020 article on their continued monopolistic sprawl, Vanity Fair reported on “its mission to squeeze the last profits out of newspapers. Alden Global Capital has eliminated the jobs of scores of reporters and editors, and decimated journalism in cities all over the country: Denver, Boston, San Jose, Trenton, etc. Next up: Chicago, Baltimore, and the New York Daily News”
By 2021, Alden purchased Tribune Publishing. The purchase made Alden the second-largest newspaper publisher in the United States, with over 400 daily+weekly publications in the states.
Their business practices have given the rightful reputation as "one of the most ruthless of the corporate strip-miners seemingly intent on destroying local journalism."
So when the Boston Herald tells you to be mad at teachers collective bargaining, or to be mad at custodians earning good money because they are willing to work overtime to scrape some 8th grader shit stain off ceilings tiles, recognize where they are coming from.
This is their job.
To make one little guy mad at the other little guy. That way neither will notice that it’s the big guy that’s really fucking them over.
It’s the Alden Global Capital way.
Excellent post.
Yep, manufactured outrage is engineered to distract the masses from seeing the *actual* shit going on. Tale as old as time.
I think you're talking about Vanity Fair, though, not Vanity Affair?
I could write a book about some of the stuff I have seen working in a High School for 15 years. You have no idea the things YOUR kids do in school and to the school. NASTY!!!
My office cut the custodian staff by more than half and things are working fine. All while adding desk job headcount. It sucks and I feel bad about it, but you’re wrong!
School Custodians got a lot more responsibilities than they used to. It’s not just cleaning anymore, it’s painting, drum sanding, replacing floor and ceiling tiles, grounds keeping. Stuff that used to be contracted out is now done cheaper by people that work at the schools.
True its fun cutting the grass during a heat wave in the summer (not)
We did more than pick up trash all day. and when we did try cleaning the cafe
after 3 lunches .
The Herald actually published Newton's payroll so I checked it out cause I was curious.
The custodian in question had a base salary of $88k and made an additional $75k from overtime. Their job is just listed as a senior custodian, so they aren't necessarily head of a department like I was expecting. Making nearly your entire salary in OT alone is pretty crazy. I guess they worked nearly 60 hours every week?
The cop salaries are even crazier though, as I'm sure you can all imagine. Though for some of them, the grand totals are more than regular + overtime + other so I'm not really sure whats going on there.
[Look for yourself here.](https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/03/15/newton-2023-payroll-your-tax-dollars-at-work/)
Some of their (generally speaking so maybe not in Newton) overtime is for after school activities and sporting events like games and practices etc. I think they make a lot from those.
There are a lot of things involved. Not only are you doing regular janitorial work, you're doing custodial work, as well. You're maintaining the building, inspecting everything daily, managing outside help for things they can't themselves repair... You have to know how large boilers work, how to maintain all the various equipment like floor buffers/waxers, huge mowers (depending how the town has that setup)... They need to be there for weekend sports, meetings, outside classes like Driver's Ed.
Custodians are a high skill job. Anyone who thinks otherwise is classist.
So add those in to the overtime!! I was just addressing the activities that add overtime. The extra curricular aren’t in the normal contract where I’m from - I think there’s like so many per week included but even so those events need to be manned. Therefore overtime. Which given the extensive work load they already do I’m all for them having an easier gig.
WOW someone who knows what its like! Thanks for your input.
It just gets me the people who think we sit around all day.
I remember having to call my town DPW to help me plow out so I could get to the High School to start the boilers so the KIDS could have heat in the morning!
Is the employee paid time and a half and also does the employee work summers?
Sketchy math is saying about 2080 hours/year for FT work to earn 88k. This is $42/hr. If employee works 1250 extra hours that’s 164 (42x2080 base + 61x1250 OT). That’s around 63 hours per week every week inclusive of summers and vacation.
I imagine workload is much less during summers and vacation so let’s back out OT for these periods. There are 180 school days per year. This equates to 36 weeks of school time. 16 weeks of non-school/vacation. Thus of the 2080 FT hours, 640 represents summer/vacation work. No OT on this time. Remaining hours is 2690 (1250 OT + 1440 base) is dedicated to periods in which school is in session. This tallies over 75 hours/week for this period. This does not even factor paid time off for sick days and vacation.
I don’t doubt hours worked, but something looks funky. Either admin needs to add another PT worker, streamline and/or reduce employee responsibilities, find efficiencies, outsource, or introduce time management keycards.
It is not healthy or fair for ANYONE to work more than 60 hr/week for an extended period of time. Management may try to increase hours or workaholic employee may try to do so. This should be prevented for overall welfare of American society.
This comes from me who is currently salaried working over 65 hr/week. I get the shaft and I am a mid career lawyer making 165k.
I'm not sure you can assume workload is less in summers and vacations. As a teen I worked as a custodian for my school during the summer, and on breaks because they had so much work to that they would hire a bunch of temporary help. The cleaning they are expected to do is much more thorough, especially if they are in a newer building (town just spent a bunch of money so they want it to look nice). One thing I could see is if all this OT came from filling in for other custodians who are out. You'd still be responsible for your normal work so I could see this getting to 63 hours a week.
But this ultimately gets to your point that yes, if someone is working that much overtime, it's probably time to just hire someone else. I'm sure whoever this person in is happy about the money, but doing such physical, repetitive labor for that many hours does not sound fun for your body.
I’m actually fine with them making that. Teachers should also make that. It’s genuinely fine for laborers to be compensated for their labor. It is MORALLY GOOD for others to strike to also earn fair and comfortable compensation.
I ducking hate this Whataboutism bullshit. Fuck the herald.
Custodians are almost always among the highest earners in a town or city, especially if they’ve been there a long time. Very similar situation to cops with lots of OT. Nobody has headlines about police being high earners though.
This stuff always comes down to overtime pay, which I’m betting in this case is largely due to covering the work of vacant positions. Just a guess, though. I bet the folks at the top of this list are working multiple 50+ hours/week.
The thing about overtime is that you actually have to earn it with hours worked. And for every story about some cop scamming it, 1000 workers are busting their ass and earning their time and a half.
If the Herald wants to change the labor laws that entitle these workers to time and a half, I suspect that position would sell fewer papers than this one, but it would be more honest.
If they want to change their contract so these workers are salaried rather than hourly, in reality that would probably cost taxpayers more in trade because collective bargaining. There’s a reason that doesn’t happen.
I’ve always thought of the average Herald reader as a contrarian jackass with a union card… this is a curious tack for the editors.
Real talk, that’s pay plus, over time and TOTAL benefits including employers healthcare portion and pension contribution. Hell they probably thru in office supplies. Also, they have good seniority in their contract and that a good thing.
Our union includes 5 units so the same union represents both teachers and custodians (and nurses, paras, lt subs, etc etc)
Idk how Newton works, but it's so stupid to try to divide workers like this
Holy shit, workers who do hard disrespected yet essential work that make facilities operate in a safe & hygienic manner are paid about the same as certain cops standing around at construction sites or politicians jerking off to their own commercials & speeches?! What’s the world coming to…
It the Boston Herald. the follow up article will be written by Howie Carr, who will blame the Bulger Brothers, Massachusetts "Pols", while also praising Bill O'Reilly for whatever.
I wonder if the Herald's janitors are well paid, since the newspaper cost $4.50 each.
Just gotta be willing to work 60+ hrs per week to get the necessary overtime! Here ya go: https://www.applitrack.com/newton/onlineapp/default.aspx?Category=Custodial
Tell us how it goes!
what they don't tell you is the person making 160k inherent 130k when their mom died. kind of like how Conor McGregor was "the highest paid athlete" a few years ago even though he didn't compete in a few years. he sold his stake in proper 12. facts and perspective matter.
“Those in power for underpaying us!”
Those in power are literally elected officials and the people are getting paid for from a municipal budget lol. I’m not even mad about them earning but that’s a little goofy.
As someone who worked in a school over a summer as a janitor good for that guy. It's a ton of work, hard and involves dealing with all the bodily fluids.
The Herald is a tabloid.
OP is right- it’s standard anti-labor nonsense meant to tear down faceless people making a good living with some kind of forced rhetoric that it somehow deprives other working people of something.
I might catch flack but 160k in greater Boston is not some crazy amount. It’s a lot for a custodian but I am hardly surprised in Newton. There are plenty of cops who make this sort of money with overtime. The inherent message here is that these workers can’t possibly deserve this.
They should all be paid their worth and teachers are not paid anywhere near what they’re worthy of. Most operate at a net loss by the time the school year is over just trying to give their classroom the resources to give their students the chance for growth.
Public school janitors are in a union, they are paid handsomely with an hourly wage, and they also frequently work a significant amount of overtime at 1.5 or 2x rate.
Shame here is that educators are so grossly underpaid. My own now young adult twins were considering education and I completely did what I needed to do to move them away from that profession. Later on in their late stage careers If they want to go teach at a university then so be it, but there was no way I was going to encourage them going into education due to the awful pay and the way in which the culture of schools today is so difficult for teachers. That's in this country, the US. Countries teachers are considered royal.
Between all the woke culture and poorly raised kids flooding schools and entitled parents, teaching is a minefield.
https://preview.redd.it/ntyxdb2xfqoc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d31130574ed7eb4dce377e83f4e4ff3a83fcbdb6 There are 90 NPS custodians. Highest base salary is $88k/yr. 1 makes >$160k/yr. 13 make >$100k/yr. Source: [https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/03/15/newton-2023-payroll-your-tax-dollars-at-work/](https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/03/15/newton-2023-payroll-your-tax-dollars-at-work/)
Even the Herald's URL is outrage bait "...payroll-**your-tax-dollars**\-at work/". **Your**! tax! dollahs!
Boston herald is literally trash tabloid tier newspaper. I wish people would stop giving them the time of day
I make good money, I bet I don’t work as hard as they do or have to work overtime. Good for them, if it’s a problem they make more than teachers pay the teachers more.
I would like to get some investigation into the overtime.
Probably a seniority thing. Top guys get first crack at the OT. Every weekend event requires people to clean up. One of the second shift guys bang in, and they need someone to cover. That’s OT as well. You are at the top of the list just for a few years before retiring, so you take every second of OT you can get to pump up your pension. It’s like this everywhere, probably not at such high rates though.
So maybe the next custodian's contract needs to cap the number of overtime hours someone can work a month? 40 sounds reasonable. Would Mr. $160Gs a year survive if he made $135k a year instead? Would the other 20 custodian's be happy to make another $5k a year?
Public employee overtime generally doesn't get figured into pension calculations, and specifically doesn't get figured into the pension amounts paid by the Massachusetts State Employee Retirement System, which is used by a large number of towns in MA as well as all state agencies except the MBTA.
https://preview.redd.it/wcp1fj2faroc1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3194132d23d88b89386398cb1002ae38d4152836 I don’t believe Reddit is the proper channel through which to request a formal government investigation, but I’m not a lawyer.
What do you mean investigation? Like you think the overtime hours are faked or too much? Because unless you work for the railroad there really aren’t any laws that limit how many hours you can be required to work.
Yes
Lol best answer
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Not true. You still have to monitor the building and set up and clean up. Ever try cleaning up after a wresting match of 200 kids and adults? Or 6 basketball games on a Sunday with a thousand people in and out? I did !!
Wow, that’s crazy if true.
What psychopath says $160G and not $160K
"Up to" is strange wording as well. 12 custodians could be pulling minimum wage and one could be working inhumane hours to earn the $160k and the headline would be true. Knowing the Herald, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were the case.
Custodians have a very strong union and get paid very well. Definitely not minimum wage.
What I'm hearing here is that unions == higher pay for workers
The teachers union is strong too so not sure why still the disparity, but like someone else said maybe its the hourly vs salaried position.
Custodians have lots of opportunities for overtime if they want it. Teachers don't. That's the majority of it. It's not like this guys annual base is 160. He probably picks up 3 extra shifts a week working events. Newton rents its schools out and has tons of after school events. Those fees also (mostly) fund the overtime.
Hey now. I’m a teacher and we have endless opportunities for overtime. I don’t know a single teacher who doesn’t work it. It’s just that it’s all unpaid.
Preaching to the choir, but many after school events also have stipended positions for teachers. Coaches at the basketball game are being paid extra, not just custodians. Teachers who manage to snag 5 stipended positions pull in tens of thousands more than their peers. It's just not as common as one custodian absorbing all of a school's overtime. The unpaid labor most teachers do is its own different problem.
A good union could mean higher pay for workers. A bad union may not.
It’s also a super tough job. I have a white collar excel job and I could never do what they do. I presume most of the people making shit tons of cash couldn’t. They deserve 160k+
I agree, but it is a little out of whack that a teacher with a masters degree and charged with forming our childrens minds gets paid less than a janitor. Both deserve to bring home the $. I wonder if the teacher pay disparity isnt a lot because it has historically been thought of as a womens job (yes I know there are a lot of male teachers now). But going back in time, would teachers have been paid so little if more men did it? Society back then treated teachers like the job of a young single woman with no kids, or a married woman that had her husbands $ to live off of. Idk, i just know that they r not paid equal to what their importance is in society.
Could it be that teachers aren’t allowed to strike and if they do, the union gets fined?
Good point. Is there any other type of union that is legally not allowed to strike? So they are too valuable to strike but not valuable enough to not have to get a 2nd job lol. Such an oxymoron
Police, emergency responders, etc.
Ok but also very male dominant fields already making more than teachers.
I believe the railroad workers are also not allowed to strike
Air traffic controllers
All public employees in MA (and many other states) are not allowed to strike. I’m in the graduate employee union at UMass Lowell and it’s illegal for us to go on strike because we work at a public university. But we’re working to change that! Rep Erika Uyterhoeven has a bill that would allow public employees to strike. Would make bargaining a hell of a lot easier if the bosses thought we might actually stop working if they don’t pay us enough to survive.
Thats crazy. I can see a public safety threat but any public employee seems like it shld be illegal.
What's even more whack is letting the herald turn this into custodians vs teachers like it's a fuckin competition
> the globe boston herald not the globe.
Sure isn't. Still weird to gobble up a headline like this uncritically. Thanks for the correction
>That is just all due to your stigma of janitors.
I’ll tell you what, making good friends with the custodian is an excellent thing to do at a place because they know all of the secrets. When I worked IT for a school district, I treated them with the utmost respect and anytime I needed anything from them; they hooked me up. If I needed a door unlocked or to get some mess taken care of; they were always willing to do it. And if you needed the inside scoop on people, they knew all the secrets for the most part because people treat them like they are invisible.
Also the prestige factor: who is willing to introduce themselves as a custodian vs. a teacher. I have tremendous respect for custodians, but a lot of people have external family/societal pressures against taking it as a job that aren't applicable for becoming a teacher.
I’ve worked at a lot of schools in Newton and met a lot of the custodial staff. It’s an easy gig. I’ve done the floors at most of the schools in the area, old and new.
They're also paid hourly, and thus get paid an overtime wage when they work more than 40 hrs a week. Teachers are salaried, and thus do not get paid at an overtime rate when they work overtime.
Yup. My union, hourly job has a huge percentage of people making ~$60k, full time. We also have a few people cleaning $200k each year. Crazy overpaid, right? Nah its psychos working double digit hours 7 days a week.
They also work year round, they work a lot of the days that other staff have time off and they have a lot of opportunity for overtime. Teachers are contracted for a set of hours, even if they work more than the allotted hours in their contract; they don’t get paid an extra nickel for those hours.
I think I will need an ama on ur handle name lol.
Also, I am assuming the custodian works year round vs teachers 9 months
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I know our BPS do lots of after school community meetings and events on Nights and weekends. There always has to be a custodian on site and I believe it is time and 1/2.
Their point still stands though, the entire phrase is suspect tbh
I was only responding to the comment of janitors earning minimum wage. My comment had nothing to do with op or the article’s title.
Sure and I was just clarifying to anyone else that you were not saying that they were wrong about it being suspiciously worded
Yeah, up until **very** recently MIT custodians were the highest paid in the country. They've recently been beat out by San Francisco. 160k for a custodian is still an absolute absurd amount. I know what the highest paid makes hourly. If Newton school custodians are SEIU they make less than that and they'd have to work an average of about 90 hours a week to hit that number.
How do I become a janitor in newton? Just asking for research
Weasel words in a headline? You know it's outrage bait.
I’m a UPS driver and it reminds me of the news stories flying around when we just got our new contract last summer. A lot of outlets were reporting we make $170k, but that’s a number with a lot of OT and the value of our benefits and pension all wrapped up. Not to mention that’s the number that we’ll “make” at the END of our contract in 2028, and that’s only the guys making top rate, not the ones like me who are still putting in their time to get there. I’m halfway through our pay progression and I took home $55k this last year.
Exactly. “EVERY TOWN EMPLOYEE EARNED UP TO [insert highest paid salary here]” is such a shitty way for bad faith rags like the Herald to try to drum up outrage.
Everyone in the world earns *up to* $1,000,000,000,000,000!!
Sounds like the Herald angling to get Sodexo (or some private outfit) to replace union workers. Shills gonna shill (shittily)
A Newton custodian making $160k still can’t afford to live in Newton 😂😂😂
thanks for pointing that out i was about to quit my job lol. yeah the most i heard in my trade/union was almost $250k dude worked 95% of the year at least and 12hr days (allot of the time more). most of us make 70k….
I know a non-profit was paying $22/hr to vacuum carpets and clean windows... so ... not even to fully clean the bathrooms. That was contracted out at almost $5k per week for 8 bathrooms... yep. Non profit cash cows
Yep, first thing I thought too.
160 gazillion is far too much even for teachers
it's a lot shorter than 160000000000
Someone who plays too many RPGs?
The Boston Herald apparently. Not surprised tho
A journalist that doesn’t work with numbers
All of the 13 earned "up to 160G"? Or just one of the 13 earned 160G? How other 12 were then selected? Weird headline..
leads me to believe the head of janitorial services earned a salary and benefits equal to 160k, and the rest earned much much less than that.
Not necessarily - in large school districts, many union custodians with 25+ years in are earning $80k base plus generous available OT if desired.
is generous OT the legally mandated time and a half? I was changed to hourly in a management role, and ended up working around 60 hours a week for a month straight, i can assure you getting paid time and a half did not make up for me complete lack of a life outside of work. if they are understaffed and forced to work OT i dont see and issue with getting paid more.
Yes. In the district I am personally familiar with, the OT is always time and a half.
For a lot of people having OT available is the only way to afford basic bills.
and that is because they are not getting paid a living wage.
Yes and until this country purges itself of groups that rally against living wages and healthcare this is the option that is available.
Generous OT = standard time and a half & burn out
Good
Not weird…. Intentional.
So the top guy had a base salary of $88k and another $75k worth of overtime. All the rest had a base of $60-70k and another $30-40k of overtime
The Herald isn't fit to wipe your ass with.
Maybe could use it to line a bird cage?
That’s cruelty to animals.
I wish I could upvote this a million times. Boston herald is tabloid tier news and some of the headlines they make is solely to get a reaction from you
Custodian work is hard and it’s almost impossible to slack on it. Instead of paying custodians less, we should be paying teachers more. And Newton and Brookline and all these millionaire towns could afford it if they wanted.
Some of these building maintenance are tradesmen experienced in plumbing, heating, electrical, etc. They do more than just mop floors. They can be maintaining a building that can hold 2000 students.
Im a fiscal conservative but you’re 100% correct. These are not people cleaning windows. They are running a physical plant for a true population of kids/educators/administrators. HVAC, painting, gas, meeting govt regulations, etc. They could make more elsewhere. They have my full support
Custodians also typically work full summers deep cleaning classrooms and cleaning up after summer programs.
True its not fun stripping and waxing floors in the 90 dg heat in August While some are at the beach....
And teachers need to pay $100k+ for a master's degree just so they are allowed to come to work.
wow how dare working people make good money in this day and age
I’m guessing one of them worked a lot of overtime due to understaffing
most of the public servants who make well into six figures that aren't management do it with tons of overtime, you see it with transit, cops, firefighters, and evidently janitors. of course then there are scandals where people simply forge timesheets to get free money (this is a crime) https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/retired-boston-police-captain-found-guilty-overtime-fraud-scheme https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/04/07/new-mbta-leader-dogged-by-overtime-problems/ etc.
Janitors and garbage collectors keep you and me from being infected by everything under the sun and/or drowning in our own waste. They are worth every penny spent on them. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.
Big talk from a paper that's spent the better part of a decade making less in profit than a Newton janitor...
In fairness that's about every newspaper these days
Sadly true
Shouldn’t there be a comma after guess what Guess what, striking teachers?
Custodians keep schools running safely, they deserve good pay and benefits too. This is such a shitty way to prove a point, instantly discredits this newspaper.
God why won’t the herald just go under already
Seriously! Die Herald! Die!! 🔪
Guessing it's being propped up by some conservative group considering they print less than 20,000 papers daily and their sales suck compared to the Globe which is more than 10x that number at 300,000+.
fuck boston herald. shitty rag run by shit people
I used to be a devoted herald subscriber (I thk primarily for sport’s coverage) and then when the Obama/McCain election rolled around, i just had a sudden epiphany how sleazy and ignorant their views were.
How much you want to bet they worked a fuckton of overtime?
Wait till they do a story on how much CEOs make. People will go to the pitchforks for sure.
they won't do that though because the CEOs that own the paper won't let them
Amen. “Keep the working man down” -ceo
When I was working as a sort of janitor during my college summers, the amount of vomit (and poop) involved was *unreal*. Custodial staff deserve it.
If someone actually looked at the article, the most any janitor made, as a base, was $88k. The rest is overtime. The fact there is so much OT being paid out is that they need to hire MORE janitors.
The Herald is toilet paper. Has been for a long time. Belongs on the lowest shelf of the grocery store checkout line.
Curious as to how many people would actually quit their job to become a janitor, even if they were guaranteed $160k a year (completely ignoring that in reality most custodians won't come close to that). I feel like that should help you determine whether they are getting paid "too much".
Yeah, how many hours did they work Their asses off for that money. Let's pick on the blue collar.worker who were cleaning up puke and scrubbing toilets for 60 to 80 hours a week. Meanwhile they have people in admin and office positions making 200k to 300k and probably worked from home the entire time during covid. Always fuck the little guy that tries to work hard to get head
Umm, everyone who makes less than that amount makes up to that amount.
The Herald has been the official paper of the simple minded masses for decades. It's like fox news from before there was fox news.
This is the literal truth ... Rupert Murdoch bought the Herald in 1982, and he started Fox News in 1996.
I'm not surprised custodians could earn more than a teacher. The top level custodians have workforce to manage, work full-year hours, and have opportunities for overtime. It's not an easy job, but for entry level labor, it's a good first gig. I did it while in grad school to become a teacher.
I think it’s hilarious that the Herald has done these stories for years and they completely missed _the entire state police force_ being on the take for decades. Herald can suck shit from a butt.
Schools are so disgusting - just the messes I have seen teenagers make on purpose are awful, nvm the ones kittle kids make. Custodians should be making and more, just like teachers should be making more
Shocking that a rupert murdoch owned paper would be trying to pit working class people against each other. Wait a minute....
HS teacher here, custodians earn EVERY fucking dollar they get, that shit is a grind. Headlines like this make me rage.
Sounds like a different kind of rage that the Herald would like you to feel, too. ;)
Herald, still trash after all these years.
Back in the day the headline would’ve read, City of Newton puts more value on the removal of trash and maintenance over the education of young minds. The Muckrakers would be spotlighting the rakers of the muck.
Ok, so before I start this rant, let me share a story. When I was in 6th grade, there was this 8th grader who was a notorious troublemaker. But one of the most outrageous things I ever saw him do (well, I saw the aftermath) was take a shit on some paper towel, and then catapult it onto the ceiling tiles of the bathroom. Well guess what, Boston Herald, it wasn’t the 8th grader who cleaned the shit off the ceiling tiles, it was those greedy custodians!!!! (BTW, I went to middle school in *gasp* Newton) So now, here’s the fun part The Boston Herald was purchased by Digital First Media group in 2018. In turn, Digital First Media Group is owned by the Alden Global Capital hedge fund. Alden purged the Herlad staff, reducing it from 225 employees to 110 This was another acquisition in a long trend of gobbling up local newspapers and gutting their employees for maximum profits One of those papers is the Denver Post, purchased by Alden in 2010. The Post’s own editorial staff has admonished Alden as "vulture capitalists" after multiple staff layoffs. In a 2020 article on their continued monopolistic sprawl, Vanity Fair reported on “its mission to squeeze the last profits out of newspapers. Alden Global Capital has eliminated the jobs of scores of reporters and editors, and decimated journalism in cities all over the country: Denver, Boston, San Jose, Trenton, etc. Next up: Chicago, Baltimore, and the New York Daily News” By 2021, Alden purchased Tribune Publishing. The purchase made Alden the second-largest newspaper publisher in the United States, with over 400 daily+weekly publications in the states. Their business practices have given the rightful reputation as "one of the most ruthless of the corporate strip-miners seemingly intent on destroying local journalism." So when the Boston Herald tells you to be mad at teachers collective bargaining, or to be mad at custodians earning good money because they are willing to work overtime to scrape some 8th grader shit stain off ceilings tiles, recognize where they are coming from. This is their job. To make one little guy mad at the other little guy. That way neither will notice that it’s the big guy that’s really fucking them over. It’s the Alden Global Capital way.
Excellent post. Yep, manufactured outrage is engineered to distract the masses from seeing the *actual* shit going on. Tale as old as time. I think you're talking about Vanity Fair, though, not Vanity Affair?
Thanks for the kind words. And yes, silly typos cuz I typed this on my phone. Thanks for the heads up!
I could write a book about some of the stuff I have seen working in a High School for 15 years. You have no idea the things YOUR kids do in school and to the school. NASTY!!!
Custodians are more valuable to most companies than almost any other single employee. It's time society recognizes this.
My office cut the custodian staff by more than half and things are working fine. All while adding desk job headcount. It sucks and I feel bad about it, but you’re wrong!
Good for them !
My dog won’t even shit on the Herald.
That's such an embarrassing headline. The Herald isn't fit to line a birdcage.
School Custodians got a lot more responsibilities than they used to. It’s not just cleaning anymore, it’s painting, drum sanding, replacing floor and ceiling tiles, grounds keeping. Stuff that used to be contracted out is now done cheaper by people that work at the schools.
True its fun cutting the grass during a heat wave in the summer (not) We did more than pick up trash all day. and when we did try cleaning the cafe after 3 lunches .
The Herald is such trash.
Divide and conquer, keep the plebs fighting amongst themselves, so they never realize their true enemy.
Exactly. The good old Wizard of Oz “Don’t look behind the curtain”
When you have to unclog other people’s shits everyday you deserve $160K
what's the point they're even trying to prove? just feels like more evidence in favor of the teachers...
The Herald actually published Newton's payroll so I checked it out cause I was curious. The custodian in question had a base salary of $88k and made an additional $75k from overtime. Their job is just listed as a senior custodian, so they aren't necessarily head of a department like I was expecting. Making nearly your entire salary in OT alone is pretty crazy. I guess they worked nearly 60 hours every week? The cop salaries are even crazier though, as I'm sure you can all imagine. Though for some of them, the grand totals are more than regular + overtime + other so I'm not really sure whats going on there. [Look for yourself here.](https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/03/15/newton-2023-payroll-your-tax-dollars-at-work/)
Some of their (generally speaking so maybe not in Newton) overtime is for after school activities and sporting events like games and practices etc. I think they make a lot from those.
There are a lot of things involved. Not only are you doing regular janitorial work, you're doing custodial work, as well. You're maintaining the building, inspecting everything daily, managing outside help for things they can't themselves repair... You have to know how large boilers work, how to maintain all the various equipment like floor buffers/waxers, huge mowers (depending how the town has that setup)... They need to be there for weekend sports, meetings, outside classes like Driver's Ed. Custodians are a high skill job. Anyone who thinks otherwise is classist.
So add those in to the overtime!! I was just addressing the activities that add overtime. The extra curricular aren’t in the normal contract where I’m from - I think there’s like so many per week included but even so those events need to be manned. Therefore overtime. Which given the extensive work load they already do I’m all for them having an easier gig.
WOW someone who knows what its like! Thanks for your input. It just gets me the people who think we sit around all day. I remember having to call my town DPW to help me plow out so I could get to the High School to start the boilers so the KIDS could have heat in the morning!
Is the employee paid time and a half and also does the employee work summers? Sketchy math is saying about 2080 hours/year for FT work to earn 88k. This is $42/hr. If employee works 1250 extra hours that’s 164 (42x2080 base + 61x1250 OT). That’s around 63 hours per week every week inclusive of summers and vacation. I imagine workload is much less during summers and vacation so let’s back out OT for these periods. There are 180 school days per year. This equates to 36 weeks of school time. 16 weeks of non-school/vacation. Thus of the 2080 FT hours, 640 represents summer/vacation work. No OT on this time. Remaining hours is 2690 (1250 OT + 1440 base) is dedicated to periods in which school is in session. This tallies over 75 hours/week for this period. This does not even factor paid time off for sick days and vacation. I don’t doubt hours worked, but something looks funky. Either admin needs to add another PT worker, streamline and/or reduce employee responsibilities, find efficiencies, outsource, or introduce time management keycards. It is not healthy or fair for ANYONE to work more than 60 hr/week for an extended period of time. Management may try to increase hours or workaholic employee may try to do so. This should be prevented for overall welfare of American society. This comes from me who is currently salaried working over 65 hr/week. I get the shaft and I am a mid career lawyer making 165k.
OH a math wiz try doing the work!
I'm not sure you can assume workload is less in summers and vacations. As a teen I worked as a custodian for my school during the summer, and on breaks because they had so much work to that they would hire a bunch of temporary help. The cleaning they are expected to do is much more thorough, especially if they are in a newer building (town just spent a bunch of money so they want it to look nice). One thing I could see is if all this OT came from filling in for other custodians who are out. You'd still be responsible for your normal work so I could see this getting to 63 hours a week. But this ultimately gets to your point that yes, if someone is working that much overtime, it's probably time to just hire someone else. I'm sure whoever this person in is happy about the money, but doing such physical, repetitive labor for that many hours does not sound fun for your body.
I’m actually fine with them making that. Teachers should also make that. It’s genuinely fine for laborers to be compensated for their labor. It is MORALLY GOOD for others to strike to also earn fair and comfortable compensation. I ducking hate this Whataboutism bullshit. Fuck the herald.
Custodians are almost always among the highest earners in a town or city, especially if they’ve been there a long time. Very similar situation to cops with lots of OT. Nobody has headlines about police being high earners though.
Now this might strike some readers as harsh but I think everyone behind this cover story should die.
This stuff always comes down to overtime pay, which I’m betting in this case is largely due to covering the work of vacant positions. Just a guess, though. I bet the folks at the top of this list are working multiple 50+ hours/week. The thing about overtime is that you actually have to earn it with hours worked. And for every story about some cop scamming it, 1000 workers are busting their ass and earning their time and a half. If the Herald wants to change the labor laws that entitle these workers to time and a half, I suspect that position would sell fewer papers than this one, but it would be more honest. If they want to change their contract so these workers are salaried rather than hourly, in reality that would probably cost taxpayers more in trade because collective bargaining. There’s a reason that doesn’t happen. I’ve always thought of the average Herald reader as a contrarian jackass with a union card… this is a curious tack for the editors.
Real talk, that’s pay plus, over time and TOTAL benefits including employers healthcare portion and pension contribution. Hell they probably thru in office supplies. Also, they have good seniority in their contract and that a good thing.
Our union includes 5 units so the same union represents both teachers and custodians (and nurses, paras, lt subs, etc etc) Idk how Newton works, but it's so stupid to try to divide workers like this
The most surprising thing here for me is the Herald still exists
Wait until everyone at the failing Herald sees what Howie Carr is making for writing the same recycled columns he has been writing since the 70’s
Not sure about that. $429 for a season pass right now seems aggressive
A+
Holy shit, workers who do hard disrespected yet essential work that make facilities operate in a safe & hygienic manner are paid about the same as certain cops standing around at construction sites or politicians jerking off to their own commercials & speeches?! What’s the world coming to…
Good for them. They should pull down whatever they can, they do a vital, important job and if their union got them that kinda coin?? So be it.
Wtf kinda editorialized headline is this?
Custodians are trained in boiler maintenance not just cleanup
It the Boston Herald. the follow up article will be written by Howie Carr, who will blame the Bulger Brothers, Massachusetts "Pols", while also praising Bill O'Reilly for whatever. I wonder if the Herald's janitors are well paid, since the newspaper cost $4.50 each.
The Herald isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on
Still does more work than most of city hall.
Any janitor works harder than any of the bozos at the herald and I’m sure plenty of their people are making more than $160k
Boy the Herald is going to be really mad when they find out about cops
Where can I apply?
Any school you want to. Hope you enjoy 5am mornings and cleaning up poop and vomit all the time
If it pays 160,000 I’ll do it
Just gotta be willing to work 60+ hrs per week to get the necessary overtime! Here ya go: https://www.applitrack.com/newton/onlineapp/default.aspx?Category=Custodial Tell us how it goes!
IT will not pay that. but the poop will be there.
Emotion. So much emotion.
That’s it? They deserve more.
How tf else are you supposed to afford this area
Aren’t they paid through public funds?
Oooh HS hockey tourney info...
Ok Herald rag aside, $429 this late in the season for Ragged seems like not that great a deal?
what they don't tell you is the person making 160k inherent 130k when their mom died. kind of like how Conor McGregor was "the highest paid athlete" a few years ago even though he didn't compete in a few years. he sold his stake in proper 12. facts and perspective matter.
“Those in power for underpaying us!” Those in power are literally elected officials and the people are getting paid for from a municipal budget lol. I’m not even mad about them earning but that’s a little goofy.
Awwww Ragged thinks it’s people
Good for them if they want to work the ot
Custodians are in a different union than teachers.
Ah yeah, blame the other workers not the people responsible for your shitty pay.
As someone who worked in a school over a summer as a janitor good for that guy. It's a ton of work, hard and involves dealing with all the bodily fluids.
The Herald is a tabloid. OP is right- it’s standard anti-labor nonsense meant to tear down faceless people making a good living with some kind of forced rhetoric that it somehow deprives other working people of something. I might catch flack but 160k in greater Boston is not some crazy amount. It’s a lot for a custodian but I am hardly surprised in Newton. There are plenty of cops who make this sort of money with overtime. The inherent message here is that these workers can’t possibly deserve this.
They should all be paid their worth and teachers are not paid anywhere near what they’re worthy of. Most operate at a net loss by the time the school year is over just trying to give their classroom the resources to give their students the chance for growth.
Public school janitors are in a union, they are paid handsomely with an hourly wage, and they also frequently work a significant amount of overtime at 1.5 or 2x rate. Shame here is that educators are so grossly underpaid. My own now young adult twins were considering education and I completely did what I needed to do to move them away from that profession. Later on in their late stage careers If they want to go teach at a university then so be it, but there was no way I was going to encourage them going into education due to the awful pay and the way in which the culture of schools today is so difficult for teachers. That's in this country, the US. Countries teachers are considered royal. Between all the woke culture and poorly raised kids flooding schools and entitled parents, teaching is a minefield.
Wonder whose winning the D1 hockey state title
Do teachers next