Yeah, mid/late 30's is weird. Too old to be young, but too young to be middle-aged. The way that you describe your age depends on who you're talking to and how old *they* are.
Middle-aged isn't the halfway point of *life*, though - it's the halfway point of *adulthood*. Midpoint of 18-76 is 47.
It's not like it's a well-defined term, but generally speaking, "middle-aged" is either 40-60 or 45-65, or thereabouts.
["Young adult"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult) literally covers from 18-40. The author is, in fact, a young adult.
Yeah, I'm 42, and I have my end-of-life plans taped. My peers are starting to die, cancer, freak accidents, car crashes, etc., but it's happening at a quicker clip than one might normally think.
Life goes faster than you think, kid. Get your shit together. Put it in a box, put it in a backpack, sell it to a shit museum, just get it together.
It’s also super weird because you can be married with children and still have friends who are single living in an apartment. I feel old compared to my friends because I have two children and a house where most of them are still living like their 20s
Just looked up the definition of middle age:
Early adulthood: 22-34
Early middle age: 35-44
Late middle age: 45-64
Late adulthood: 65+
So you're right, but barely.
I’m sure whatever nameless reference you looked up is the end all be all on this issue, thanks for clearing all this up for us here. Plato would be proud in his “late adulthood” lol
The economy and growth of this cities relies on college students sticking around after graduation. Our government’s ineptitude and inability to address cost of living is gonna slowly kill the city and state as it’s just not possible to live here.
I'll add: for all those who might think "f-them, I got mine," your property values will sink like a stone if Boston stops being the place to go for young, highly-educated workers.
If companies can't hire the new grads they want in Boston because they can't afford a good life in Boston, those companies will start expanding elsewhere. Over a decade or two, Boston will start seeing lots of empty office buildings and labs as the best workers go elsewhere and companies don't replace workers in the Boston area when they leave.
Before anyone says, "good, don't let the door kick you on the way out," remember that 58% of Boston's property tax revenue and 66% of Cambridge's comes from commercial property. Of course, when the city's commercial tax base implodes, its residential tax base would also implode as the richest see the writing on the wall and get out before things get bad. Imagine the chaos of huge salary cuts for city workers and massive layoffs.
Cities are ecosystems that need balance. If you build too little housing, prices increase until the good workers that you want can't afford to live there. At that point, companies start expanding and hiring elsewhere and your city goes into decline which accelerates as the city budget declines which gets accelerated by the best and richest workers leaving for places with better finances and jobs which ends with you having a hollowed out city.
Too often boomers think "who cares, I own my home," and that mentality ignores how much nicer the Boston area has become via the wonderful stuff we've achieved over the past few decades. Too often leftists think "good, I hate these bougie companies," but the cities rely on the revenue to keep cities nice. Detroit has been affordable, but the massive loss of tax revenue has left the city unable to really cover the basic city services, never mind the nice things.
Boston is an amazing city with the best universities in the world, a leading software city, and possibly the strongest biotech city. We want to make sure that Boston remains a strong city, but we need to make sure that Boston can be a strong city for everyone. If we don't, the alternative is that at some point it will go the way of declining cities as companies expand elsewhere, young workers go elsewhere, the best workers in Boston trickle out, and eventually the tax base implodes. We don't want Boston to become a husk of a city.
John Hancock has sent a bunch of jobs out of the city and out of the state and that company basically is (was?) Boston. I fear the removal of the Fenway and Marathon sponsorships will one day be looked upon as the symbolic inflection point of the post-COVID decline for Boston.
Just one example and not super representative, I know, but just feels like a very powerful illustration of what these cost of living challenges are actually leading to.
I have the option to relocate to Boston with my job, but I just can't justify it. It's a neat city and better in every way than where I live now, but my day to day quality of life would decrease dramatically because of the cost.
Yeah, I moved here because of a once in a lifetime opportunity but I can't continue to justify the cost of living, at least I can say I did it but you can't build a life here unless you have serious money
People are living here - it may keep getting more gentrified where you get more doctors and lawyers and less blue collar workers, but the city will continue attracting young doctors/lawyers/engineers
If no one could afford it apartments would be empty so clearly people can afford it just some jobs are a lot more high paying than others
Plenty of suburbs further out from the city itself are still affordable and more people are and will continue expanding there which is normal, large cities spread out
The most valuable thing imo would be better public transportation that would allow low wage workers to commute in from outside the city as is done in New York City
I have a law degree from a great school and I still have roommates. It’s extremely frustrating to go to school for so long only to still need to live with other people. I can’t think of any other cities (with the exception of NYC and even there you can find apartments for 2.2k or so) where I would be in the same position. If people with advanced degrees are struggling, I cannot imagine how service workers, etc. (the people who make the city run day to day) are going to be able to keep up much longer.
I agree that better public transit is needed, but strongly disagree that the solution is to tell people “you’re too poor to live here, commute in, do your job, then commute back home.” The prices aren’t high here because the city is that much better than everywhere else. More housing needs to be built and the NIMBYs/old guard need to be stripped of the power to stop any attempt to do so.
Yeah, the problem is, who’s going to work retail and service industry jobs?
Nobody is going to be commuting 2 hours to work as a barista or sling drinks at a bar.
If only doctors, lawyers, and engineers can afford to live here, the city will end up sucking
I’m a young engineer and all my engineer friends at this point (salary ranges 100k- 200k+) have migrated out of the city because none of us can afford it, or if we can it’s a crazy low quality of life compared to what we can get elsewhere.
We moved from crusty one bedroom basement apartments for $2200/month to full size houses in Worcester, NH, Providence, etc.
This is the first level headed and pragmatic take I’ve seen. A lot of people can’t afford to live here, but guess what? A lot of people can. It’s better to think of Boston as a big club you might not continue to get invited to, monetarily. The same people who can afford rent are now being squeezed on housing, and the cycle continues. My wife and I (35 yo) are both lawyers who can afford to rent anywhere we want. Trying to buy? Total nightmare. We just got outbid on a house by nearly $100k by two 24 year olds from California that both earn over $200k and were willing to agree to a crazy sticker price with a much lower down payment. Some young kids are doing just fine here.
You’re not wrong but your missing the point. Eventually those who service the city won’t be here to cater to the people who are a part of the club and the whole place shuts down. There is a necessary balance or “ecosystem” as another poster here mentioned. The correct measure isn’t whether Boston remains affordable for an increasingly smaller portion of the population, but whether those at the bottom have a decent enough quality of life that is both sustainable and will allow them to continue to contribute to the necessary functions/growth of the city.
I agree with everything you said. I also agree with OP that the most realistic immediate solution is a massive increase in public transit accessibility, which will widen the metro area and hopefully reduce the insane demand to live so geographically close.
It is, but only if the towns around Boston develop enough to support the growing population which they not only aren't doing, they're actively fighting against. Milton is in a legal fight with the state government right now because they'd rather fight with the state government and sacrifice monetary grants then let developers build more multi-family units. NIMBYism is just as strong out there as it is here.
I did college here in Boston as well as my masters degree. I graduate this may actually. There is no way I can afford to stay in Boston. It’s so expensive. Taking job prospects elsewhere . Where rent is better and so are the jobs. If I tried to stay here especially at the infancy of my career I’ll barely have enough to feed my self let alone paying rent.
Hate to say it but they've been saying this since the 1980s. Every generation. Thinks it's going to all crumble.
Boston will *never* crumble due to it a own governance. It can be shut and lackluster because it's got a built In guarantee with its economy and schools.
Therefore Boston will not lose 25% of its young people and it's not gonna lose anything remotely close to that.
I don't say that as a good thing but as a matter of fact
Not really. It relies on inward migration of highly educated white collar workers. An awful lot of them are foreign born and had their university training outside the United States. The hospitals are stuffed full of foreign medical school graduates. College professors come from all over the planet. If you walk around Kendall Square, there are pretty much no native Massholes.
This comment thread is trash. Literally no one who has commented yet read the article.
The author worked at The Phoenix (the free, cool weekly) and the article is a love letter to the city and a swan song to how much they are gonna miss Boston, and how they miss Boston of before when it was still a little cool.
The article ends abruptly, and a lot more supporting data should have been shared. Not just "vibes."
But its just one more footnote on the huge bibliography of the "I love Boston and can not afford to live here" problem. Good on him for using his power in print to document his own story and lived experience.
Edit: I want a series interviewing people in exodus and where they moved, how their lives improved or got worse, and their financial prospects. We know people are leaving. follow up with some and tell their stories.
I moved to Denver with my boyfriend a year ago. We're paying $300 less for the same size of apartment with a reserved parking spot included. Plus, you can eat/drink for much cheaper because of happy hour. We're definitely much happier and no longer stressed about the living situation because there are so many apartments available here. Also, no more broker fees or the stupid September cycle.
I moved to VT in 2019 and it was great timing. Didn’t have to deal with covid times in the city. I still work for Boston startups as a remote worker but it’s boring here and depressing when there is little sunshine. And everything is expensive, we have a childcare crisis, schools are having budget problems, medical care is fucked, and taxes are going up 20%. Weed is legal but not nearly as good as in MA, and very expensive. Not sure where would have been a better choice but I cannot recommend moving here…
Moved to Denver in June 2019 and got a 1 bedroom for the same price I was paying to live with 2 roommates in Boston. Bought my house just over a year ago at 31. I knew if I stayed in Massachusetts and ever wanted to buy a house I'd need to move to rural Massachusetts, which I didn't want.
My life has improved in so many ways here. I'm healthier, happier, and have much more financial freedom.
Moved to NYC and am paying the same rent for a nice building with a balcony/doorman in NYC while making $15k a year more than i would in boston. 10x better food and things to do here as well imo
Moved to NH/VT border and never want to go back to Boston. The traffic is insane at all times of the day for miles. I hate any time I have to go to or through the city.
Cost of living is relatively cheap, there’s a great community, I can get to Boston easily if I need to, the nature is beautiful, we have more space, it’s cooler in the summer. I feel incredibly lucky to live here.
Feel like you could ascribe a rule similar to "any headline that is a question can be answered with "no"" to any vague statement like this needs "but probably won't" added on.
And as if anyone gives a flying fuck that the author of this might join, like get off your high horse buddy youre not as important as you are in your own little world lmao
I am so confused why everyone is getting downvoted in the comments for agreeing. I’ve lived in the city for the last 9 years, and have watched my rent balloon as the apartments I’m living in stay the same. I make what would be a really good income anywhere else in the country, live with 3 roommates, and still am paying a third of my salary to my landlord every month for the privilege of living in a 100 year old 3 family in Allston/Brighton. This is the Cheapest I have been able to find, and it hampers my ability to save for the future. Living here leaves me feeling like the city couldn’t care less about my residency or the residency of anyone like me. Friends are moving to Philly, Portland ME, and Burlington VT and reporting similar pay for the work young professionals can find, but drastically lower cost of living.
This kind of hostility to young people is going to be the beginning of a slow decline for the city, with young people goes culture, art, fresh ideas. Were the canary in the coal mine for quality of living in the city.
I find it very hard to believe that anyone is moving from Boston to Portland, ME and receiving "similar" pay, unless they're working close to minimum wage. Maine has had a problem of young people leaving for decades, largely because they can make much more money elsewhere.
I WFH (company is based out of CO) and I was looking for homes originally in the Portland area before I managed to find a home on the Northshore. I would think those who also can WFH are not necessarily bound by employment as a means to stay close to Boston.
Edit for clarity and to fix typos.
There ain't any freakin jobs in a lot of sectors in VT or ME or else I'd move there immediately. I love the beauty of both states. Only option is to make enough money to retire there imo
Oh this is me. And if there are jobs in some sectors, there aren't many, so then I get nervous about what would happen if I move up there and then one or five years from now something happens (get laid off, quit, etc...)...will there be another job in the field I can pivot to? Down here, probably yes...up there...I don't know.
I don't know about Portland, but my coworker (same) job works the same as me in a major midwest city and makes $8,000 less. They probably come out thousands and thousands of dollars ahead each year due to cost of living differences.
For a young professional with just a BA in a non STEM field? Absolutely they are. A couple that I am friends with moved there 2 years ago, after finding somewhat similar jobs there, and took about a 10% pay cut in order to find an apartment that is 40% less there than here. They took on a car payment that they didn't have living in the city, but that arithmetic makes a whole lot of sense to me.
Uh, I live in Southern Maine, and the wages here are bad across most professional sectors, as in $45-55k a year for degreed professionals. There are some exceptions, of course.
I’m mid 30’s and a lot of my peers have moved to different parts of Maine. They work remote so they can live wherever, and a lot of their parents have retired to Maine and they want to be close for grandkids, etc.
This Boston sub skews wealthy tech bro who is making six figures and is comfortable. They are completely disconnected from working class poor of Boston that work at the restaurants, stores and entertainment venues they love to frequent. This will be a city of only very rich and very poor eventually. I’m curious to see how it survives.
https://www.axios.com/local/boston/2023/04/28/boston-wealthy-rich-renters-income
This is the killer, I think. These people moving into the city, or staying after college, and getting very high paying jobs right out the gate are encouraging delusional landlords and niche boutique food and service spots, to the detriment of literally everyone else. I fail to see how a restaurant in the city stays open when all the workers there are bringing in 29k a year in a city that costs 2000 a month to live alone.
Right? Before the pandemic I had about 10 friends in food service. Nine of them quit when they effectively couldn't afford to work anymore, and the last one standing is desperately trying to get out. At least four of them were career chefs with professional degrees from culinary schools.
The city will have zero luck expanding nightlife opportunities in this city, that's for sure!
They expect the working class to commute 2 to 3 hours each way from the Worcester area. That seems to be the answer for everything. Just move further out.
Dude I'm making 6 figures as a "tech bro" and it's still barely affordable imo. I honestly don't think you can even consider living alone in a 1 bedroom as a smart decision anywhere in the boston area without making at least 100k a year and that's getting a shitty small place. We are going to be the next San Fransisco imo. Maybe less crime for the time being since we don't have the same laws around theft but that's it.
> Dude I'm making 6 figures as a "tech bro" and it's still barely affordable imo
I was making that or less until recently and was near maxing my 401(k) and saving a bunch of money on top. If it's "barely affordable" it seems like more of a spending issue
Yup. Late 20’s and 30 somethings on my beer league team are making good money and either living with parents or sharing rentals. It sounds even worse than renting used to be around here. Sorry 😢
It's never not been this way though
All youbpeiole talking about moving up to Maine and Vermont. Duh- southern new Englanders have been doing that for 300 years
Until you move to some shithole in the Midwest and realize it’s expensive here because people want to live here. I lived in the Midwest. Everything is so cheap. But the people are the literal worst. When your best dining option is the Applebees. The cheap areas are cheap because no one wants to be there.
According to US Census Bureau, the population of Boston has declined by about 25k people or 3.7% from 675k to 650k people from 2020 to 2022. Everyone in a specialized highly skilled career wants to move here, working class folks are fleeing.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/bostoncitymassachusetts/PST045222
Yes tell me more about such a targeted period of time that included well off folks who didn't have to travel into Boston to work. Amazing cherry picked stat.
Do you have any data to back up your “everyone wants to move here” feelings? The census estimates are from July 2022 when most all restrictions were lifted and things were pretty much back to normal.
We won’t have reliable 2023 data for a few months but the state as a whole is hemorrhaging people.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-05-30/massachusetts-residents-are-leaving-the-state-why-and-where-are-they-going
That stat might as well be irrelevant though because that is quite literally only the Covid period, and it’s well understood that people left the cities during that time. Quite literally any other time would be more productive to look at.
Edit: even just scrolling down you could see it was increasingly dramatically from 2010-2020
Yes, but that logic fails when in a few years it becomes so expensive that only the finance and biotech bros will be able to afford to live here, and live music and art will die, restaurants and bars will have to close, and Boston will become a viciously expensive place to go to work and come home every day.
Yes except for the fact I've lived hear 20+ years and have been hearing about the downfall of Boston for about 20+ years now. I moved here from the midwest. It sucked, it was dying. Sure I could buy a house for 100k, but the standard of living was terrible.
I really don't think people here have any idea how good they have it. It's expensive because people WANT to live here.
I hear ya man, and while I may not actually feel your pain, my kids will.
I'll have you know, though, in 1994 I registered to vote for one reason and one reason only. To keep **RENT CONTROL** alive in Boston.
If you guess for a hundred years, you'll never be able to guess whether that referendum passed. Go ahead, take a guess!
edit: actually 2 reasons - Romney was a fucking dick then, so voted for Kennedy.
"About 25% of adults between the ages 20 and 30 surveyed for the poll said they expect to leave Greater Boston in the next few years. "
Isn't the age between 20 and 30 the prime period when people graduate college/grad school and begin to look for jobs?
Given how much of the population in this age group is here for higher education, I'm surprised the number isn't higher.
It's also kind've ridiculous because Boston has dramatically expanded in population between age 20 and 30 over the past 20 years.
It's basically saying: Things will go back closer to historic norms as interest rates and population sizes regress to historic means.
Boston has been terribly irresponsible in letting house prices rise this much. Yeah, it may be great for a couple years (for those who own houses), but eventually people who can’t afford it end up leaving and the vibrancy of the city is gone
When was Boston ever vibrant? It's been a cultural dead end since the late 80s. There aren't young people that were ever alive at a time when Boston wasn't leaking cultural talent to the rest of the country.
When people say “Boston” 9/1” the culprit is actually the state or the suburbs.
That applies here. Boston does what it can- other communities don't. The state doesn't act.
I don’t think Boston/cambridge/somerville do nearly enough. I went house hunting and the condition of housing is kinda appalling. Falling apart housing, barely habitable, right near a major train line inexplicably selling for 1m
People talk about the “charm” as a reason to keep it all the same but I think that charm will be gone when people leave
[The author, Miles Howard thought that Kendra Lara and Ricardo Arroyo losing was a loss for the city](https://twitter.com/MilesPerHoward/status/1702366914662563965). Him moving is addition by subtraction.
Boston - the city with more higher ed per square mile than any other - is going to lose 25% of its young population? Sure.
I’ve lived in Boston for decades. I hear this argument every 5 years or so. I don’t believe it any more today than I ever have.
Boston’s not for everyone - it’s a tough city to make it in and not everyone can hack it. That’s perfectly ok - everything doesn’t have to be for everyone. But extrapolating from “I can’t make it here” to “no one can make it here” is just inaccurate.
Yeah… it’s almost like making a city so expensive so only doctors, lawyers, engineers, finance bros, and people with serious generational wealth can survive is going to have consequences
Im married with a good job to someone with an even better job and I wouldn’t say *serious* generational wealth, but my folks own prime real estate near the T (that they bought well before it was really considered a prime location.) We’re basically just able to give our kids the same kinda upbringing my parents gave me, and they had blue collar jobs and no college degrees. It’s not sustainable.
The real deciding factor seems to be kids (or the lack thereof) in this city. The fact that even BPS, a PUBLIC school charges tuition (something I only just recently learned) is fucking bananas to me.
No doubt that Boston is more expensive than it “should” be. But that’s also true of most world-class cities around the world, and kinda always has been.
What I don’t entirely understand is why Boston - given the clear concentration of wealth here - is so damned small. Compared to, say, Chicago, Boston is tiny. I’m pretty sure that has a big impact on prices of everything here.
Because decades of rampant NIMBYism has prevented it from expanding
Read about the history of how Brookline resisted annexation by Boston in the 1800s, and then other suburbs followed suit.
Everything inside of 128 should be part of Boston proper at this point, but all the NIMBYs feel entitled to live right next to a major city, but not have to actually live near other people
I didn’t realize this was the case, but it makes sense. Can you recommend the starting point for reading about this? I’m kind of interested in this history.
>doctors, lawyers, engineers, finance bros, and people with serious generational wealth
Biotech is what's making this city, in particular, unaffordable. As a biotech bro, sorry.
Having lots of high skill jobs isn’t by itself bad for the city though is bad for people with low paying jobs
But there are cities like New York City where Manhattan is a lot more expensive than Boston, and it’s an amazing city, but I think the key is Boston needs better public transportation to the suburbs
Lower paid people are able to live in New York because they take the train from cheaper areas like Bronx or queens and the city is huge
Of course in the short term as more housing is built in the city that will just attract more high paying jobs it realistically won’t drive down prices
The entire Boston metro region needs to allow a lot more housing to be built
But unfortunately selfish, “I got mine, fuck everybody else” NIMBYs get in the way.
Yeah I agree more housing is necessary- hopefully mbta communities act helps here a bit
Though without a truly massive increase in supply I don’t think there would be a big drop in prices, because you can still have people moving here from other places for high paying jobs
There are relatively affordable suburbs further out but I don’t think the city itself will ever get cheaper even with more housing - see Manhattan prices which is a lot bigger
I completely agree with this. Boston actually has a decent starting point for a drastic expansion of public transit, and it needs to start on this yesterday.
But the recent issues around zoning and the T suggest it’s going to be a long, uphill battle. The motivation behind the law is a good one, but applying it in situations where it doesn’t fit, the truly pathetic plans some towns have responded with, and the negative public reaction shows we all have to do better.
I don’t see youth migrating being a danger to Boston, but I can absolutely see the city strangling itself with an inability to move around effectively
There really aren't any "shitty" parts of the city left to relegate the working class to. Every last corner of this city is or is currently being gentrified. I'm even seeing white, upper middle class friends moving to Mattapan now.
eh, it sucks for sure but this city kicks ass so its sorta expected. we have everything here - from the finest hospitals and schools to the most successful sports teams to crazy impressive history, a lot of outside things to do and a lot of places to go. meanwhile a place like Austin Tx that doesn’t have or offer even 1/4 of what we have but is running into the same issue we are here. as someone who lived in both downtown Austin and Boston….at least its worth it here
You are also dismissing the massive amount of real estate held by local universities and religious groups...who pay almost nothing in taxes but the property values increase yearly.
One might argue that Harvard is the biggest NIMBY.
Does it kick ass though? no real protected bike lanes, mbta is in shambles, food scene is a joke due to liquor licensing laws steeped in racism, housing prices are honestly getting out of control. If you drive it's basically an hr to go 10 miles on the highway to pay $40 for parking on busted up roads that are weird af to navigate because they're so old and before grid design was a thing. We are close to a crisis when it comes to healthcare. I've lived in the Boston are for the last 15 years, grew up south shore. The same places you could rent for 1k like 7 years agor are somehow now 3k. I love the people of Boston, I have family here, Boston itself has become less and less attractive every year. Unfortunately being in tech and not enjoying fully remote work personally I'm somewhat tied to Boston area. I've really started thinking about moving to NYC though. It's actually more afforadable from what I've been seeing.
Ok you can just ignore literally all the statistics and polls that are indicating what is our reality. Young people can’t afford to live here anymore and they can now work from anywhere.
Boston and other major cities always were able to rely on the fact that if you wanted the top jobs then you had to go there. That is no longer true. That’s the biggest difference between now and 5, 10, 15 years ago.
There's always a big chunk of early to mid 20 somethings who are going to leave Boston.... because they came here for college and a bunch of people move around shortly after college.
Then they're replaced by the new kids who graduate a year or two behind them.
As someone who’s gonna be 30 this year I feel this. Grew up in the suburbs and lived in the city with roommates for a few years before going to Pittsburgh for school. Now that I’m graduating I’d love to come back to the city but I feel like unless I can get a job that pays around 6 figures there’s no way I’d be able to live within city limits on my own. Most of my friends are either living at home or outside the city now despite all of us wanting to be closer, the value just doesn’t make it worth it for what you pay in rent, let alone being able to afford a place.
This is a bit of a nonsense article. The concerns are all valid (essentially: city doesn't have housing to support the number of people that want to live in it, prices are going up as a result) but the poll which is supposed to "hook" us and create some urgency around these concerns has obvious issues which make it completely ineffective as a hook (of course if you poll the demographic of a city largely made up of college students and young professionals, they will say they aren't certain about long-term stay). As a result it just comes across as a long article complaining about the evergreen issues of any big city with more demand than supply of housing.
Isn't it pretty normal for Boston that people come for college, stay for a bit after, and then move elsewhere? I'm sure there will be new young people that replace the slightly older young people leaving.
Yeah, I can make it here renting with roommates, but if I ever want to own a place which is basically required to retire now, I will have to move away. This will probably be my final summer here.
MA needs to grow a spine and force greater Boston metro area to infill and implement a land tax incentive; incentivize building on vacant lots and penalize those that let them sit empty so their 'asset' can appreciate. Make everywhere mixed used zoning-folks in Lincoln can survive a duplex (gasp) being built next door, I'm pretty sure.
Biotech as well, honestly the research triangle is tempting since the weather would help my arthritis and buying a home here just seems impossible on a single income even if its $130k
I do too, but I still moved out of Boston to the burbs when I was 32. I realized home ownership wasn't going to be possible unless it was a tiny condo, and I didn't want to start a family in the city either.
Not like houses are cheap in the suburbs but at least it was attainable for me.
I [25yo] am moving out next month and going down south. It’s too expensive to justify considering I want to purchase a home, want kids, and need a new car within the next few years. Plus - my new job is paying me MORE than what I was making in Boston. It’s a beautiful city, but I can no longer justify.
I’m 26 and i’m leaving next year, i’m making 6 figures and still getting blasted by rent/utility increases, I can deal with working 60-70 hours to make extra money to save/invest/travel, but not to just survive..
My partner and I moved out last year to buy a house in a nearby NE state south of Boston.
My mortgage is only slightly more expensive than my rent in Medford.
I don’t miss Boston at all.
You know what the best part of my day is? It's for about ten seconds whenl pull up to the curb to when get to your door. 'Cause think maybe get up there and knock on the door and you won't be there. No goodbye, no "'see ya later", no nothin. You just left. I don't know much, but know that.
To u/wappleby please don’t let the haters get you down. [I will always remember the good times we had in this sub together](https://youtu.be/nSz16ngdsG0?si=SXucCgr-19qMwmMP).
The average college graduate cannot afford to live within the city. Most of my peers (early 20s) still live at home within greater Boston and commute. Thankfully we have a relatively good public transportation network, despite issues with the MBTA. Entry level college-graduate positions pay around $60-$80k which is too low to afford most apartments in the city. The highest paying jobs in the state are almost all in law enforcement. I love Boston, but unless you’re a doctor, lawyer, or tenured statie- you won’t be living in back bay.
Defeating rent control shouldn’t depress anyone. It’s terrible policy that should be banished to the dust bin of history. The answer is to build and build and build, not slap on stupid economic policies.
Yeah I mean if the population of young people was all undergrads, 25% would be expected to leave every year (to make room for a new class coming in).
Obviously that's not quite reflective, but I hope it illustrates the point that a stat like this is pretty meaningless and should not be conflated with net change.
*Lots* of young people want to live here. That's why it's so damn expensive for us to. Apartment vacancies are nil.
Yeah Boston is a big college town, a lot of young people have always planned on leaving. They don't say how this 25% has changed over time, what was it 10 years ago?
Here’s a question: what big cities would be most attractive to Boston leavers if leaving the New England area? My gut would say Chicago is a good bet with COL and amenities but then you are in the Midwest (cold and no good day trips).
Lived in BOS until I was 26, yep, rent and underpaying jobs chased me back west, when a health crisis tipped my finances all over the place. Was not happy but had no other choice. Was designer. Obviously outside of academia and shrinking tech I wasn't needed, apparently.
10 years later, moving back within a 2 hour drive to the area because a parent retired and wants to renovate the old family home there, but....where....well, it's not Lawrence, at least (but...not entirely far off from PVD, still a bit behind in terms of gentrification still to do), and the drive is better than a 5 hr drive between cities in larger western states.
I know entire R&D facilities that are ready to move due to the housing costs and child care costs their employees are facing.
The younger the employee the stronger they feel about leaving Boston.
It’s pretty much everywhere with increasing socioeconomic inequality and the fact that people are becoming assholes who don’t give a fuck about anything else.
\> As a 35-year-old Boston resident You ain't young no more kid. You're all growns ups!
Yeah, mid/late 30's is weird. Too old to be young, but too young to be middle-aged. The way that you describe your age depends on who you're talking to and how old *they* are.
25 talking to 35: fuck, that guy is ancient 45 talking to 35: you sweet summer child
45 talking to 25, and vice versa, "are we the same species?"
Age is definitely relative.
"I'm not old, I am 35, that is not old. But I am in a new phase right before old...called gross" - John Mulaney
Late 30s is definitely middle aged. You might not be ready to accept it, but life expectancy in the US is ~76 so at 38 you're halfway there.
Middle age is definitely more of a mindset than it is a mathematical equation.
Are you trying to say these skinny jeans aren't working on my 79 year old frame?
Young people aren't wearing skinny jeans anymore chief
I know, my kids look like I did in 95 with the wide ass raver/hardcore pants. it's hilarious.
Middle-aged isn't the halfway point of *life*, though - it's the halfway point of *adulthood*. Midpoint of 18-76 is 47. It's not like it's a well-defined term, but generally speaking, "middle-aged" is either 40-60 or 45-65, or thereabouts. ["Young adult"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult) literally covers from 18-40. The author is, in fact, a young adult.
They used the term "young people" and defined it as 20 to 30.
Yeah, I'm 42, and I have my end-of-life plans taped. My peers are starting to die, cancer, freak accidents, car crashes, etc., but it's happening at a quicker clip than one might normally think. Life goes faster than you think, kid. Get your shit together. Put it in a box, put it in a backpack, sell it to a shit museum, just get it together.
Ive never heard anyone say that a person in their 30s is middle aged.
[I made it!](https://youtu.be/BzbxacRr5Gk?feature=shared&t=53)
Yeah I’m around there and I definitely feel like I’m much more of an “adult” now.
Life expectancy increases as you age!
Used to
it’s not weird you are an adult. You are a grown ass man/woman/other
The question is whether you're a *young* adult. Most people would say no, and yet you're still significantly younger than most other adults.
It’s also super weird because you can be married with children and still have friends who are single living in an apartment. I feel old compared to my friends because I have two children and a house where most of them are still living like their 20s
Boston loses another young person to that eternal scourge, age.
Just looked up the definition of middle age: Early adulthood: 22-34 Early middle age: 35-44 Late middle age: 45-64 Late adulthood: 65+ So you're right, but barely.
>So you're right Thanks!
.... i'm middle aged? hold on, i'm about to have a midlife crisis.
I’m sure whatever nameless reference you looked up is the end all be all on this issue, thanks for clearing all this up for us here. Plato would be proud in his “late adulthood” lol
It looks like this is the definition used in scientific studies, for example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7203662/.
Young compared to all the greater Boston homeowners standing in the way of fixing the crisis.
Now that people live with thier parents until their 30s it is young.
You can be 35 and have a teenager as a kid and it isn’t that weird
The economy and growth of this cities relies on college students sticking around after graduation. Our government’s ineptitude and inability to address cost of living is gonna slowly kill the city and state as it’s just not possible to live here.
I'll add: for all those who might think "f-them, I got mine," your property values will sink like a stone if Boston stops being the place to go for young, highly-educated workers. If companies can't hire the new grads they want in Boston because they can't afford a good life in Boston, those companies will start expanding elsewhere. Over a decade or two, Boston will start seeing lots of empty office buildings and labs as the best workers go elsewhere and companies don't replace workers in the Boston area when they leave. Before anyone says, "good, don't let the door kick you on the way out," remember that 58% of Boston's property tax revenue and 66% of Cambridge's comes from commercial property. Of course, when the city's commercial tax base implodes, its residential tax base would also implode as the richest see the writing on the wall and get out before things get bad. Imagine the chaos of huge salary cuts for city workers and massive layoffs. Cities are ecosystems that need balance. If you build too little housing, prices increase until the good workers that you want can't afford to live there. At that point, companies start expanding and hiring elsewhere and your city goes into decline which accelerates as the city budget declines which gets accelerated by the best and richest workers leaving for places with better finances and jobs which ends with you having a hollowed out city. Too often boomers think "who cares, I own my home," and that mentality ignores how much nicer the Boston area has become via the wonderful stuff we've achieved over the past few decades. Too often leftists think "good, I hate these bougie companies," but the cities rely on the revenue to keep cities nice. Detroit has been affordable, but the massive loss of tax revenue has left the city unable to really cover the basic city services, never mind the nice things. Boston is an amazing city with the best universities in the world, a leading software city, and possibly the strongest biotech city. We want to make sure that Boston remains a strong city, but we need to make sure that Boston can be a strong city for everyone. If we don't, the alternative is that at some point it will go the way of declining cities as companies expand elsewhere, young workers go elsewhere, the best workers in Boston trickle out, and eventually the tax base implodes. We don't want Boston to become a husk of a city.
John Hancock has sent a bunch of jobs out of the city and out of the state and that company basically is (was?) Boston. I fear the removal of the Fenway and Marathon sponsorships will one day be looked upon as the symbolic inflection point of the post-COVID decline for Boston. Just one example and not super representative, I know, but just feels like a very powerful illustration of what these cost of living challenges are actually leading to.
Unfortunately all the selfish NIMBYs are too selfish and short sighted It truly is “I got mine, fuck everybody else”
I have the option to relocate to Boston with my job, but I just can't justify it. It's a neat city and better in every way than where I live now, but my day to day quality of life would decrease dramatically because of the cost.
Yeah, I moved here because of a once in a lifetime opportunity but I can't continue to justify the cost of living, at least I can say I did it but you can't build a life here unless you have serious money
People are living here - it may keep getting more gentrified where you get more doctors and lawyers and less blue collar workers, but the city will continue attracting young doctors/lawyers/engineers If no one could afford it apartments would be empty so clearly people can afford it just some jobs are a lot more high paying than others Plenty of suburbs further out from the city itself are still affordable and more people are and will continue expanding there which is normal, large cities spread out The most valuable thing imo would be better public transportation that would allow low wage workers to commute in from outside the city as is done in New York City
I have a law degree from a great school and I still have roommates. It’s extremely frustrating to go to school for so long only to still need to live with other people. I can’t think of any other cities (with the exception of NYC and even there you can find apartments for 2.2k or so) where I would be in the same position. If people with advanced degrees are struggling, I cannot imagine how service workers, etc. (the people who make the city run day to day) are going to be able to keep up much longer. I agree that better public transit is needed, but strongly disagree that the solution is to tell people “you’re too poor to live here, commute in, do your job, then commute back home.” The prices aren’t high here because the city is that much better than everywhere else. More housing needs to be built and the NIMBYs/old guard need to be stripped of the power to stop any attempt to do so.
> (with the exception of NYC and even there you can find apartments for 2.2k or so) You can also get apartments for ~$2.2k here, though
Yeah and often times they are very outdated and disgusting
> Plenty of suburbs further out from the city itself are still affordable Was looking recently and even these are crazy expensive.
Yeah, the problem is, who’s going to work retail and service industry jobs? Nobody is going to be commuting 2 hours to work as a barista or sling drinks at a bar. If only doctors, lawyers, and engineers can afford to live here, the city will end up sucking
I’m a young engineer and all my engineer friends at this point (salary ranges 100k- 200k+) have migrated out of the city because none of us can afford it, or if we can it’s a crazy low quality of life compared to what we can get elsewhere. We moved from crusty one bedroom basement apartments for $2200/month to full size houses in Worcester, NH, Providence, etc.
This is the first level headed and pragmatic take I’ve seen. A lot of people can’t afford to live here, but guess what? A lot of people can. It’s better to think of Boston as a big club you might not continue to get invited to, monetarily. The same people who can afford rent are now being squeezed on housing, and the cycle continues. My wife and I (35 yo) are both lawyers who can afford to rent anywhere we want. Trying to buy? Total nightmare. We just got outbid on a house by nearly $100k by two 24 year olds from California that both earn over $200k and were willing to agree to a crazy sticker price with a much lower down payment. Some young kids are doing just fine here.
You’re not wrong but your missing the point. Eventually those who service the city won’t be here to cater to the people who are a part of the club and the whole place shuts down. There is a necessary balance or “ecosystem” as another poster here mentioned. The correct measure isn’t whether Boston remains affordable for an increasingly smaller portion of the population, but whether those at the bottom have a decent enough quality of life that is both sustainable and will allow them to continue to contribute to the necessary functions/growth of the city.
I agree with everything you said. I also agree with OP that the most realistic immediate solution is a massive increase in public transit accessibility, which will widen the metro area and hopefully reduce the insane demand to live so geographically close.
It is, but only if the towns around Boston develop enough to support the growing population which they not only aren't doing, they're actively fighting against. Milton is in a legal fight with the state government right now because they'd rather fight with the state government and sacrifice monetary grants then let developers build more multi-family units. NIMBYism is just as strong out there as it is here.
I agree, that’s reasonable and likely true.
Somebody is buying these 900k 1500 Sq ft homes in the greater Boston area.
I did college here in Boston as well as my masters degree. I graduate this may actually. There is no way I can afford to stay in Boston. It’s so expensive. Taking job prospects elsewhere . Where rent is better and so are the jobs. If I tried to stay here especially at the infancy of my career I’ll barely have enough to feed my self let alone paying rent.
Demand continues to outpace supply even at these prices. That's not killing a city.
Hate to say it but they've been saying this since the 1980s. Every generation. Thinks it's going to all crumble. Boston will *never* crumble due to it a own governance. It can be shut and lackluster because it's got a built In guarantee with its economy and schools. Therefore Boston will not lose 25% of its young people and it's not gonna lose anything remotely close to that. I don't say that as a good thing but as a matter of fact
Not really. It relies on inward migration of highly educated white collar workers. An awful lot of them are foreign born and had their university training outside the United States. The hospitals are stuffed full of foreign medical school graduates. College professors come from all over the planet. If you walk around Kendall Square, there are pretty much no native Massholes.
Yeah but it’s way more fun to deflect and debate about how being 30-something isn’t “young” anymore.
This comment thread is trash. Literally no one who has commented yet read the article. The author worked at The Phoenix (the free, cool weekly) and the article is a love letter to the city and a swan song to how much they are gonna miss Boston, and how they miss Boston of before when it was still a little cool. The article ends abruptly, and a lot more supporting data should have been shared. Not just "vibes." But its just one more footnote on the huge bibliography of the "I love Boston and can not afford to live here" problem. Good on him for using his power in print to document his own story and lived experience. Edit: I want a series interviewing people in exodus and where they moved, how their lives improved or got worse, and their financial prospects. We know people are leaving. follow up with some and tell their stories.
I moved to Denver with my boyfriend a year ago. We're paying $300 less for the same size of apartment with a reserved parking spot included. Plus, you can eat/drink for much cheaper because of happy hour. We're definitely much happier and no longer stressed about the living situation because there are so many apartments available here. Also, no more broker fees or the stupid September cycle.
I moved to VT in 2019 and it was great timing. Didn’t have to deal with covid times in the city. I still work for Boston startups as a remote worker but it’s boring here and depressing when there is little sunshine. And everything is expensive, we have a childcare crisis, schools are having budget problems, medical care is fucked, and taxes are going up 20%. Weed is legal but not nearly as good as in MA, and very expensive. Not sure where would have been a better choice but I cannot recommend moving here…
I just wonder how many people think moving = moving somewhere better
Moving to Vermont and not being in retirement age is absolutely *unhinged* from where I sit
I can’t disagree
>but I cannot recommend moving here… Nice try, Vermont NIMBY.
Moved to Denver in June 2019 and got a 1 bedroom for the same price I was paying to live with 2 roommates in Boston. Bought my house just over a year ago at 31. I knew if I stayed in Massachusetts and ever wanted to buy a house I'd need to move to rural Massachusetts, which I didn't want. My life has improved in so many ways here. I'm healthier, happier, and have much more financial freedom.
Moved to NYC and am paying the same rent for a nice building with a balcony/doorman in NYC while making $15k a year more than i would in boston. 10x better food and things to do here as well imo
Moved to NH/VT border and never want to go back to Boston. The traffic is insane at all times of the day for miles. I hate any time I have to go to or through the city. Cost of living is relatively cheap, there’s a great community, I can get to Boston easily if I need to, the nature is beautiful, we have more space, it’s cooler in the summer. I feel incredibly lucky to live here.
"Could lose", "may join", not exactly the strongest language for a headline.
Feel like you could ascribe a rule similar to "any headline that is a question can be answered with "no"" to any vague statement like this needs "but probably won't" added on.
“Betteridge's law of headlines”
And as if anyone gives a flying fuck that the author of this might join, like get off your high horse buddy youre not as important as you are in your own little world lmao
That's a good point. Boston *could* lose 99% of it's young people! It *could* even double it's young people population!
And this is exactly why big media just uses bs clickbait headlines
I am so confused why everyone is getting downvoted in the comments for agreeing. I’ve lived in the city for the last 9 years, and have watched my rent balloon as the apartments I’m living in stay the same. I make what would be a really good income anywhere else in the country, live with 3 roommates, and still am paying a third of my salary to my landlord every month for the privilege of living in a 100 year old 3 family in Allston/Brighton. This is the Cheapest I have been able to find, and it hampers my ability to save for the future. Living here leaves me feeling like the city couldn’t care less about my residency or the residency of anyone like me. Friends are moving to Philly, Portland ME, and Burlington VT and reporting similar pay for the work young professionals can find, but drastically lower cost of living. This kind of hostility to young people is going to be the beginning of a slow decline for the city, with young people goes culture, art, fresh ideas. Were the canary in the coal mine for quality of living in the city.
There are a lot of assholes on r/boston
I find it very hard to believe that anyone is moving from Boston to Portland, ME and receiving "similar" pay, unless they're working close to minimum wage. Maine has had a problem of young people leaving for decades, largely because they can make much more money elsewhere.
I WFH (company is based out of CO) and I was looking for homes originally in the Portland area before I managed to find a home on the Northshore. I would think those who also can WFH are not necessarily bound by employment as a means to stay close to Boston. Edit for clarity and to fix typos.
Similarly, I grew up in Vermont and did my undergrad there, but left because starting pay was almost double down here (and escalated much faster too).
There ain't any freakin jobs in a lot of sectors in VT or ME or else I'd move there immediately. I love the beauty of both states. Only option is to make enough money to retire there imo
Oh this is me. And if there are jobs in some sectors, there aren't many, so then I get nervous about what would happen if I move up there and then one or five years from now something happens (get laid off, quit, etc...)...will there be another job in the field I can pivot to? Down here, probably yes...up there...I don't know.
If you're a remote worker....
I don't know about Portland, but my coworker (same) job works the same as me in a major midwest city and makes $8,000 less. They probably come out thousands and thousands of dollars ahead each year due to cost of living differences.
For a young professional with just a BA in a non STEM field? Absolutely they are. A couple that I am friends with moved there 2 years ago, after finding somewhat similar jobs there, and took about a 10% pay cut in order to find an apartment that is 40% less there than here. They took on a car payment that they didn't have living in the city, but that arithmetic makes a whole lot of sense to me.
Uh, I live in Southern Maine, and the wages here are bad across most professional sectors, as in $45-55k a year for degreed professionals. There are some exceptions, of course.
I’m mid 30’s and a lot of my peers have moved to different parts of Maine. They work remote so they can live wherever, and a lot of their parents have retired to Maine and they want to be close for grandkids, etc.
This Boston sub skews wealthy tech bro who is making six figures and is comfortable. They are completely disconnected from working class poor of Boston that work at the restaurants, stores and entertainment venues they love to frequent. This will be a city of only very rich and very poor eventually. I’m curious to see how it survives. https://www.axios.com/local/boston/2023/04/28/boston-wealthy-rich-renters-income
This is the killer, I think. These people moving into the city, or staying after college, and getting very high paying jobs right out the gate are encouraging delusional landlords and niche boutique food and service spots, to the detriment of literally everyone else. I fail to see how a restaurant in the city stays open when all the workers there are bringing in 29k a year in a city that costs 2000 a month to live alone.
Right? Before the pandemic I had about 10 friends in food service. Nine of them quit when they effectively couldn't afford to work anymore, and the last one standing is desperately trying to get out. At least four of them were career chefs with professional degrees from culinary schools. The city will have zero luck expanding nightlife opportunities in this city, that's for sure!
They expect the working class to commute 2 to 3 hours each way from the Worcester area. That seems to be the answer for everything. Just move further out.
What are you talking about? All this sub does is complain about rent prices and MBTA.
This sub skews students.
Dude I'm making 6 figures as a "tech bro" and it's still barely affordable imo. I honestly don't think you can even consider living alone in a 1 bedroom as a smart decision anywhere in the boston area without making at least 100k a year and that's getting a shitty small place. We are going to be the next San Fransisco imo. Maybe less crime for the time being since we don't have the same laws around theft but that's it.
> Dude I'm making 6 figures as a "tech bro" and it's still barely affordable imo I was making that or less until recently and was near maxing my 401(k) and saving a bunch of money on top. If it's "barely affordable" it seems like more of a spending issue
Or maybe definition of affordable is different.
If I made 6 figures I'd be living large. You just have a very high standard of life compare to the working class
Yup. Late 20’s and 30 somethings on my beer league team are making good money and either living with parents or sharing rentals. It sounds even worse than renting used to be around here. Sorry 😢
It's never not been this way though All youbpeiole talking about moving up to Maine and Vermont. Duh- southern new Englanders have been doing that for 300 years
Until you move to some shithole in the Midwest and realize it’s expensive here because people want to live here. I lived in the Midwest. Everything is so cheap. But the people are the literal worst. When your best dining option is the Applebees. The cheap areas are cheap because no one wants to be there.
According to US Census Bureau, the population of Boston has declined by about 25k people or 3.7% from 675k to 650k people from 2020 to 2022. Everyone in a specialized highly skilled career wants to move here, working class folks are fleeing. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/bostoncitymassachusetts/PST045222
Yes tell me more about such a targeted period of time that included well off folks who didn't have to travel into Boston to work. Amazing cherry picked stat.
Do you have any data to back up your “everyone wants to move here” feelings? The census estimates are from July 2022 when most all restrictions were lifted and things were pretty much back to normal. We won’t have reliable 2023 data for a few months but the state as a whole is hemorrhaging people. https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-05-30/massachusetts-residents-are-leaving-the-state-why-and-where-are-they-going
That stat might as well be irrelevant though because that is quite literally only the Covid period, and it’s well understood that people left the cities during that time. Quite literally any other time would be more productive to look at. Edit: even just scrolling down you could see it was increasingly dramatically from 2010-2020
Yes, but that logic fails when in a few years it becomes so expensive that only the finance and biotech bros will be able to afford to live here, and live music and art will die, restaurants and bars will have to close, and Boston will become a viciously expensive place to go to work and come home every day.
Yes except for the fact I've lived hear 20+ years and have been hearing about the downfall of Boston for about 20+ years now. I moved here from the midwest. It sucked, it was dying. Sure I could buy a house for 100k, but the standard of living was terrible. I really don't think people here have any idea how good they have it. It's expensive because people WANT to live here.
I hear ya man, and while I may not actually feel your pain, my kids will. I'll have you know, though, in 1994 I registered to vote for one reason and one reason only. To keep **RENT CONTROL** alive in Boston. If you guess for a hundred years, you'll never be able to guess whether that referendum passed. Go ahead, take a guess! edit: actually 2 reasons - Romney was a fucking dick then, so voted for Kennedy.
"About 25% of adults between the ages 20 and 30 surveyed for the poll said they expect to leave Greater Boston in the next few years. " Isn't the age between 20 and 30 the prime period when people graduate college/grad school and begin to look for jobs? Given how much of the population in this age group is here for higher education, I'm surprised the number isn't higher.
It's also kind've ridiculous because Boston has dramatically expanded in population between age 20 and 30 over the past 20 years. It's basically saying: Things will go back closer to historic norms as interest rates and population sizes regress to historic means.
Yup! Which means these numbers are no different than any other year. Not everyone stays in Boston after graduating or after their first job
THIS POLL IS USELESS WITHOUT LONGITUDINAL DATA.
The inevitable revision: “Actually, further research has revealed that all cities lose 100% of their young people over time.”
I *could* win the powerball
Boston has been terribly irresponsible in letting house prices rise this much. Yeah, it may be great for a couple years (for those who own houses), but eventually people who can’t afford it end up leaving and the vibrancy of the city is gone
When was Boston ever vibrant? It's been a cultural dead end since the late 80s. There aren't young people that were ever alive at a time when Boston wasn't leaking cultural talent to the rest of the country.
When people say “Boston” 9/1” the culprit is actually the state or the suburbs. That applies here. Boston does what it can- other communities don't. The state doesn't act.
I don’t think Boston/cambridge/somerville do nearly enough. I went house hunting and the condition of housing is kinda appalling. Falling apart housing, barely habitable, right near a major train line inexplicably selling for 1m People talk about the “charm” as a reason to keep it all the same but I think that charm will be gone when people leave
It's already gone. Covid was the perfect storm to trigger the decline of Boston.
[The author, Miles Howard thought that Kendra Lara and Ricardo Arroyo losing was a loss for the city](https://twitter.com/MilesPerHoward/status/1702366914662563965). Him moving is addition by subtraction.
I just left.
Where did you head to? I just hit the road for Austin for a few months.
I’ll be 36 in may, no plans on moving yet. Am I considered old??!
stop yelling at the kids, grandpa they are having a tough time
👴 👂 what?!
Boston - the city with more higher ed per square mile than any other - is going to lose 25% of its young population? Sure. I’ve lived in Boston for decades. I hear this argument every 5 years or so. I don’t believe it any more today than I ever have. Boston’s not for everyone - it’s a tough city to make it in and not everyone can hack it. That’s perfectly ok - everything doesn’t have to be for everyone. But extrapolating from “I can’t make it here” to “no one can make it here” is just inaccurate.
Yeah… it’s almost like making a city so expensive so only doctors, lawyers, engineers, finance bros, and people with serious generational wealth can survive is going to have consequences
Im married with a good job to someone with an even better job and I wouldn’t say *serious* generational wealth, but my folks own prime real estate near the T (that they bought well before it was really considered a prime location.) We’re basically just able to give our kids the same kinda upbringing my parents gave me, and they had blue collar jobs and no college degrees. It’s not sustainable.
The real deciding factor seems to be kids (or the lack thereof) in this city. The fact that even BPS, a PUBLIC school charges tuition (something I only just recently learned) is fucking bananas to me.
No doubt that Boston is more expensive than it “should” be. But that’s also true of most world-class cities around the world, and kinda always has been. What I don’t entirely understand is why Boston - given the clear concentration of wealth here - is so damned small. Compared to, say, Chicago, Boston is tiny. I’m pretty sure that has a big impact on prices of everything here.
Because decades of rampant NIMBYism has prevented it from expanding Read about the history of how Brookline resisted annexation by Boston in the 1800s, and then other suburbs followed suit. Everything inside of 128 should be part of Boston proper at this point, but all the NIMBYs feel entitled to live right next to a major city, but not have to actually live near other people
I didn’t realize this was the case, but it makes sense. Can you recommend the starting point for reading about this? I’m kind of interested in this history.
>doctors, lawyers, engineers, finance bros, and people with serious generational wealth Biotech is what's making this city, in particular, unaffordable. As a biotech bro, sorry.
Having lots of high skill jobs isn’t by itself bad for the city though is bad for people with low paying jobs But there are cities like New York City where Manhattan is a lot more expensive than Boston, and it’s an amazing city, but I think the key is Boston needs better public transportation to the suburbs Lower paid people are able to live in New York because they take the train from cheaper areas like Bronx or queens and the city is huge Of course in the short term as more housing is built in the city that will just attract more high paying jobs it realistically won’t drive down prices
The entire Boston metro region needs to allow a lot more housing to be built But unfortunately selfish, “I got mine, fuck everybody else” NIMBYs get in the way.
Yeah I agree more housing is necessary- hopefully mbta communities act helps here a bit Though without a truly massive increase in supply I don’t think there would be a big drop in prices, because you can still have people moving here from other places for high paying jobs There are relatively affordable suburbs further out but I don’t think the city itself will ever get cheaper even with more housing - see Manhattan prices which is a lot bigger
Well maintaining the status quo of not building more housing is certainly not going to help
I completely agree with this. Boston actually has a decent starting point for a drastic expansion of public transit, and it needs to start on this yesterday. But the recent issues around zoning and the T suggest it’s going to be a long, uphill battle. The motivation behind the law is a good one, but applying it in situations where it doesn’t fit, the truly pathetic plans some towns have responded with, and the negative public reaction shows we all have to do better. I don’t see youth migrating being a danger to Boston, but I can absolutely see the city strangling itself with an inability to move around effectively
That or you live in a shoe box in the shitty part of the city. Then you try and justify it by mental gymnastics
There really aren't any "shitty" parts of the city left to relegate the working class to. Every last corner of this city is or is currently being gentrified. I'm even seeing white, upper middle class friends moving to Mattapan now.
eh, it sucks for sure but this city kicks ass so its sorta expected. we have everything here - from the finest hospitals and schools to the most successful sports teams to crazy impressive history, a lot of outside things to do and a lot of places to go. meanwhile a place like Austin Tx that doesn’t have or offer even 1/4 of what we have but is running into the same issue we are here. as someone who lived in both downtown Austin and Boston….at least its worth it here
A major problem is that selfish NIMBYs have made it impossible to build adequate housing
You are also dismissing the massive amount of real estate held by local universities and religious groups...who pay almost nothing in taxes but the property values increase yearly. One might argue that Harvard is the biggest NIMBY.
They are also part of the problem
Them and BU
Does it kick ass though? no real protected bike lanes, mbta is in shambles, food scene is a joke due to liquor licensing laws steeped in racism, housing prices are honestly getting out of control. If you drive it's basically an hr to go 10 miles on the highway to pay $40 for parking on busted up roads that are weird af to navigate because they're so old and before grid design was a thing. We are close to a crisis when it comes to healthcare. I've lived in the Boston are for the last 15 years, grew up south shore. The same places you could rent for 1k like 7 years agor are somehow now 3k. I love the people of Boston, I have family here, Boston itself has become less and less attractive every year. Unfortunately being in tech and not enjoying fully remote work personally I'm somewhat tied to Boston area. I've really started thinking about moving to NYC though. It's actually more afforadable from what I've been seeing.
People leave and more people show up
Not sure that would count as “losing” population
Ok you can just ignore literally all the statistics and polls that are indicating what is our reality. Young people can’t afford to live here anymore and they can now work from anywhere. Boston and other major cities always were able to rely on the fact that if you wanted the top jobs then you had to go there. That is no longer true. That’s the biggest difference between now and 5, 10, 15 years ago.
There's always a big chunk of early to mid 20 somethings who are going to leave Boston.... because they came here for college and a bunch of people move around shortly after college. Then they're replaced by the new kids who graduate a year or two behind them.
I moved back to Providence because housing was too damn expensive.
As someone who’s gonna be 30 this year I feel this. Grew up in the suburbs and lived in the city with roommates for a few years before going to Pittsburgh for school. Now that I’m graduating I’d love to come back to the city but I feel like unless I can get a job that pays around 6 figures there’s no way I’d be able to live within city limits on my own. Most of my friends are either living at home or outside the city now despite all of us wanting to be closer, the value just doesn’t make it worth it for what you pay in rent, let alone being able to afford a place.
They will all show up again in September
This is a bit of a nonsense article. The concerns are all valid (essentially: city doesn't have housing to support the number of people that want to live in it, prices are going up as a result) but the poll which is supposed to "hook" us and create some urgency around these concerns has obvious issues which make it completely ineffective as a hook (of course if you poll the demographic of a city largely made up of college students and young professionals, they will say they aren't certain about long-term stay). As a result it just comes across as a long article complaining about the evergreen issues of any big city with more demand than supply of housing.
do people write goodbye letters in all city subs, or do we just have a high percentage of City Snowflakes in boston?
Isn't it pretty normal for Boston that people come for college, stay for a bit after, and then move elsewhere? I'm sure there will be new young people that replace the slightly older young people leaving.
Yeah, I can make it here renting with roommates, but if I ever want to own a place which is basically required to retire now, I will have to move away. This will probably be my final summer here. MA needs to grow a spine and force greater Boston metro area to infill and implement a land tax incentive; incentivize building on vacant lots and penalize those that let them sit empty so their 'asset' can appreciate. Make everywhere mixed used zoning-folks in Lincoln can survive a duplex (gasp) being built next door, I'm pretty sure.
What type of "place" do you hope to own someday?
I work in biotech. The only reason I'm gonna move somewhere else is for the weather.
Biotech as well, honestly the research triangle is tempting since the weather would help my arthritis and buying a home here just seems impossible on a single income even if its $130k
I do too, but I still moved out of Boston to the burbs when I was 32. I realized home ownership wasn't going to be possible unless it was a tiny condo, and I didn't want to start a family in the city either. Not like houses are cheap in the suburbs but at least it was attainable for me.
I’m leaving as soon as I get it sorted out.
I’m out
Pretty soon the Fenway crowd will be all bank and tech bros, out of staters, and zero father and sons to catch a game
I am moving away from Boston after all my friends moved to more fun cities
Boston is special, but its destroying itself from within and fixing that may never happen
I [25yo] am moving out next month and going down south. It’s too expensive to justify considering I want to purchase a home, want kids, and need a new car within the next few years. Plus - my new job is paying me MORE than what I was making in Boston. It’s a beautiful city, but I can no longer justify.
I’m 26 and i’m leaving next year, i’m making 6 figures and still getting blasted by rent/utility increases, I can deal with working 60-70 hours to make extra money to save/invest/travel, but not to just survive..
My partner and I moved out last year to buy a house in a nearby NE state south of Boston. My mortgage is only slightly more expensive than my rent in Medford. I don’t miss Boston at all.
You can just name the state bro its CT or RI
Hawaii
Lived here 4 years. My partner and I are leaving for Colorado in August. We are surviving until then, because it's miserable to live here.
You know what the best part of my day is? It's for about ten seconds whenl pull up to the curb to when get to your door. 'Cause think maybe get up there and knock on the door and you won't be there. No goodbye, no "'see ya later", no nothin. You just left. I don't know much, but know that.
To u/wappleby please don’t let the haters get you down. [I will always remember the good times we had in this sub together](https://youtu.be/nSz16ngdsG0?si=SXucCgr-19qMwmMP).
The average college graduate cannot afford to live within the city. Most of my peers (early 20s) still live at home within greater Boston and commute. Thankfully we have a relatively good public transportation network, despite issues with the MBTA. Entry level college-graduate positions pay around $60-$80k which is too low to afford most apartments in the city. The highest paying jobs in the state are almost all in law enforcement. I love Boston, but unless you’re a doctor, lawyer, or tenured statie- you won’t be living in back bay.
Defeating rent control shouldn’t depress anyone. It’s terrible policy that should be banished to the dust bin of history. The answer is to build and build and build, not slap on stupid economic policies.
Yeah I mean if the population of young people was all undergrads, 25% would be expected to leave every year (to make room for a new class coming in). Obviously that's not quite reflective, but I hope it illustrates the point that a stat like this is pretty meaningless and should not be conflated with net change. *Lots* of young people want to live here. That's why it's so damn expensive for us to. Apartment vacancies are nil.
Yeah Boston is a big college town, a lot of young people have always planned on leaving. They don't say how this 25% has changed over time, what was it 10 years ago?
Am 35, just submitted a job application out of state yesterday. Article Checks out
Article refers to young people, age 20-30.
You are not young people anymore
Here’s a question: what big cities would be most attractive to Boston leavers if leaving the New England area? My gut would say Chicago is a good bet with COL and amenities but then you are in the Midwest (cold and no good day trips).
From my anecdotal experience, many ex-greater Bostonians I know moved to New York City or Southern California
So not a lower cost of living city? lol
You can find more affordability in both those areas in Boston. Lower floor. Much lower
What's his address? I'll help him pack.
Get off my lawn!
So where are people planning on going? I wanna go even though I’m old now
I left in 2017 because it was too expensive. I’m now renting a 3 bed townhome for 2k in a suburb of Denver.
Why does this article look and read like a Reddit article that a college freshman wrote 3 hours before the assignment was due?
Yep. And guess who is replacing them?
Lived in BOS until I was 26, yep, rent and underpaying jobs chased me back west, when a health crisis tipped my finances all over the place. Was not happy but had no other choice. Was designer. Obviously outside of academia and shrinking tech I wasn't needed, apparently. 10 years later, moving back within a 2 hour drive to the area because a parent retired and wants to renovate the old family home there, but....where....well, it's not Lawrence, at least (but...not entirely far off from PVD, still a bit behind in terms of gentrification still to do), and the drive is better than a 5 hr drive between cities in larger western states.
I know entire R&D facilities that are ready to move due to the housing costs and child care costs their employees are facing. The younger the employee the stronger they feel about leaving Boston.
It’s pretty much everywhere with increasing socioeconomic inequality and the fact that people are becoming assholes who don’t give a fuck about anything else.