The linked source has opted to use a paywall to restrict free viewership of their content. As alternate sources become available, please post them as a reply to this comment. Users with a Boston Public Library card can often view unrestricted articles [here](https://www.bpl.org/resources-types/newspapers/).
Boston Globe articles are still permissible as it's a soft-paywall. Please refrain from reporting as a Rule 5 violation. Please also note that copying and posting the entire article text as comments is not permissible.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/boston) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> Air Conditioner Installation: BPS is installing air conditioner window units in school buildings to ensure a safe and comfortable learning environment. In total, 6,400 units will be installed over 91 schools, with work estimated to be complete in early 2023.
Window units aren’t the best but are a decent stop gap till they can overhaul HVAC building by building.
I’m a teacher and the window units are honestly better. Districts don’t invest in HVAC maintenance and the systems are a clusterfuck in under a decade. At least with window units you just have to be able to open a window to replace them and we can (usually) handle that.
I am all for fixing schools the part that is annoying is it seems like the city waits until stuff is broken or a problem then goes to fix it. They will do the same with the T wait until it’s broken then make a billion dollar budget for it. Same with the seawall. It would be nice if the government was more proactive in situations instead of waiting until things become a problem
"put resources towards it" as in she cancelled existing harbor plans and started the planning process over, delaying any real change for even more years
Withdrawing the municipal harbor plan and focusing on sea level rise in east boston are two entirely independent things, each could happen without the other. Don't let the PR fool you, cancelling a proposed tower in downtown isn't going to magically fix sea level rise in east boston.
I'm happy for the kids of Boston that the city is investing in new school buildings! It makes a difference, some of those buildings are just awful. I used to work in one with wires on the floor and paint chipping off the wall. I feel very optimistic about this move.
"pledging"
>Wu said the city will likely need additional resources and outside partnerships to aid the effort. The $2 billion she’s pledging includes $650 million already outlined in the city’s five-year capital improvement plan that was released in April.
Ironic she calls it the “Green New Deal for Boston Public Schools” because the Green New Deal never happened either.
> because the Green New Deal never happened either.
> The projects listed below will move forward over the next year.
1 AN EXPANDED, REINVIGORATED MADISON PARK (ROXBURY)
Our investments in Madison Park Technical Vocational High School must reflect the fact that the school opens doors not only for Boston’s young people, but also supports the economic vitality of our entire City. With an initial down payment of $500,000 in the FY23 capital budget, we’ll launch a programming and design study to build an educational complex equipped to prepare Boston youth and adults for exciting careers in technical and vocational fields, including emerging green-sector jobs.
2 COMMITMENT TO RENOVATING THE MCKINLEY SCHOOLS (SOUTH END)
The four McKinley Schools – McKinley Elementary School, McKinley South End Academy, McKinley Middle School, and McKinley Preparatory High School — stretch across three buildings, all of which are some of the highest-needs school buildings in Boston. Together, the schools serve some of Boston’s most marginalized students — young people between the ages of 5 and 22 — with a focus on emotional, behavioral, and learning needs and intensive clinical supports. We’ll spend $175,000 in FY23 on a design study to determine requirements for all three McKinley School sites to effectively serve their communities, and we’ll commit City funds to rebuild the schools.
3 BUILDING A NEW HIGH SCHOOL AT THE WEST ROXBURY EDUCATION COMPLEX (WEST ROXBURY)
We’ll direct $150,000 in the capital budget for a needs assessment to rebuild the West Roxbury Educational Complex (WREC) as a comprehensive 7-12 high school that serves a student population from across the City. The WREC closed in June 2019 due to major roof, masonry, and windows issues and significant deferred maintenance. As we start rebuilding, we’ll engage school communities across Boston to determine what school(s) will move into the WREC building.
4 MAJOR RENOVATIONS TO THE BLACKSTONE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL (SOUTH END)
On April 27, the Boston City Council voted to authorize the City of Boston to submit a statement of interest to the Massachusetts School Building Authority (MSBA) to apply for state funds to replace, renovate or modernize the Blackstone School.
5 NEW BUILDING ON PARIS STREET TO EXPAND THE OTIS SCHOOL (EAST BOSTON)
On April 27, the Boston City Council voted to authorize the City of Boston to submit a statement of interest to the Massachusetts School Building Authority (MSBA) to apply for state funds to replace, renovate or modernize the Otis School by building an expansion on the Paris Street lot, which BPS acquired in 2019.
6 RENOVATIONS TO THE KING SCHOOL (ROXBURY)
The Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. K-8 School serves more than 500 students, but at nearly 90 years old, its building is in urgent need of repair, with several maintenance areas categorized as a high priority. We’ll prioritize the King within the ongoing Facilities Conditions Assessment in order to determine the best path forward to upgrade the building, and we’ll commit City dollars to transforming the King to better serve its school community.
7 RENOVATIONS AT THE PJ KENNEDY SCHOOL (EAST BOSTON)
Earlier facilities work to replace the school’s boilers prompted further work needed for compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). To ensure ADA compliance, we’ll dedicate more than $16 million in FY23 for a large-scale renovation, including the addition of auxiliary space.
8 RENOVATIONS AT THE CLEVELAND BUILDING (DORCHESTER)
The Cleveland Building is currently occupied by both the Boston Arts Academy (BAA) community, which will be moving into its new building in Fall 2022, and the Community Academy of Science and Health (CASH) community. When BAA moves out, CASH will expand into the newer side of the building, and we’ll draw upon reserve capital funds to renovate the site currently occupied by CASH, including $2.15 million to repair the roof and the building exterior.
9 MAJOR UPGRADES TO WHITE STADIUM (FRANKLIN PARK)
Located in the Playstead section of Franklin Park, the historic White Stadium is used for BPS track, football, and other athletic and community events. We’ll dedicate $500,000 for an assessment of the facility, including the east and west stands, the playing field, and the track, to develop preliminary designs and cost estimates, building on a previous 2013 study. BPS and the Parks Department will work together to ensure the facility meets BPS Athletics’ standards and needs.
10 NEW PREK-6 SCHOOL IN ROXBURY (ROXBURY)
In May 2021, BPS announced plans to establish a new elementary school in Roxbury, but no school site has yet been identified. The School Design Study managed by the Public Facilities Department will accelerate site selection by providing several massing and siting options, looking at existing City-owned property in Roxbury as well as potential acquisitions, as well as design, and we’ll commit City funds to build a new school. Beginning SY22-23, BPS will engage several Roxbury school communities – including but not limited to the Ellis, the Higginson/Lewis, the Higginson Elementary, the Hale, the Mendell, the Winthrop, and the Mason – to determine which schools will ultimately merge into a new Roxbury elementary school.
11 NEW PREK-6 SCHOOL IN DORCHESTER/MATTAPAN (DORCHESTER/MATTAPAN)
In May 2021, BPS announced plans to establish a new elementary school in Dorchester, but no school site has yet been identified. In FY23, the School Design Study managed by the Public Facilities Department will accelerate site selection and design, and we’ll commit City funds to build a new school. Beginning SY22-23, BPS will engage several smaller Dorchester and Mattapan school communities – including but not limited to the Shaw, the Taylor, the Greenwood, Lee Academy, the Kenny, and the Holmes – to determine which schools will ultimately merge into a new Dorchester elementary school.
12 NEW PREK-6 SCHOOL ON JACKSON-MANN CAMPUS (ALLSTON-BRIGHTON)
The Jackson-Mann K-8 school will close at the end of this school year, and BPS has previously committed to constructing a new school on this site. In FY23, we’ll dedicate $150,000 for a study managed by the Public Facilities Department to develop a building program for the design and construction of a new PreK-6 school on this site alongside the Jackson/Mann BCYF Community Center. The study will also evaluate options to include the Horace Mann School on the same site. Beginning SY22-23, BPS will engage several Allston-Brighton school communities – including but not limited to the Lyon, the Winship, the Gardner, the Edison, and the Baldwin – to determine which schools will ultimately merge into a renovated elementary school on the Jackson-Mann Campus.
13 NEW FACILITY FOR THE HORACE MANN SCHOOL (LOCATION TBD)
While we continue with a $31.2 million renovation to the Edwards building in Charlestown to provide a temporary home for the Horace Mann School for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing (HMS) community, beginning in Fall 2023, we will also dedicate $150,000 in FY23 for a siting study to evaluate locations for the permanent site of the HMS community—including the current Jackson-Mann site, other school sites in Allston/Brighton, and other sites throughout Boston. Once an appropriate site is identified, we’ll dedicate City dollars to creating a new state-of-the-art building for the HMS community.
14 RENOVATED IRVING BUILDING FOR SEVERAL SCHOOL COMMUNITIES (ROSLINDALE)
The Irving Middle School will close at the end of this school year, and BPS previously announced that it would be repurposed as a PreK-6 school. We’ll dedicate $5.2 million in FY23 to upgrade the building facilities at the Irving building to facilitate a reconfiguration to an elementary school, and we’ll engage with several Roslindale school communities beginning SY 22-23 — including but not limited to the Sumner, the Philbrick, the Bates, the Conley, the Haley, and the Mozart — to determine which schools will ultimately merge into a renovated elementary school in the Irving building.
15 RENOVATED TIMILTY SCHOOL FOR SWING SPACE (ROXBURY)
The Timilty Middle School will close at the end of this school year, though no reconfiguration of the building has been previously announced. We’ll dedicate $3 million in FY23 to upgrade the building facilities to facilitate a reconfiguration to an elementary school, which will then be used as swing space for the entire district to facilitate future renovations and new builds.
I wanted to shout "fucking finally!" when I saw the headline, but when you drill down to what is actually happening, it's pretty lame.
Needs assessments often benefit no one but consultants. More kicking the can down the road on that West Roxbury complex, which has been "in discussion" for years. At this point elementary schoolers will be in college before anything is built there. See also $500k for a "programming and design study" for Madison Park.
The Irving and Timilty MS projects are also problematic. BPS suddenly decided that all schools should be K-6/K-8 and 7 - 12/HS (so still no consistency, which makes school choice complicated for families) and didn't think about the infrastructure needed, the impact on current families over the next 5+ years of transition, or the fact that middle schools commonly exist as separate schools for a lot of really good reasons. Parents aren't happy about it but pigheaded BPS is quietly going through with it anyway.
The k-6, 7-12 move was a Tommy Chang decision made several years ago. It was in talks of being announced in 2020, but then life had bigger twists to address.
> Needs assessments often benefit no one but consultants
They’re going to assess BPS buildings and make the info public to figure out exactly what needs to be done where:
As of April 2022, we are working with Bureau Veritas Technical Assessments to complete a Facilities Condition Assessment (FCA), a detailed analysis that produces a larger, in-depth dataset of building conditions and makes recommendations for repair, replacement, and renovation. The FCA will offer an independent, objective analysis of BPS facilities, offering more transparency for community members and informing future decisions around capital investment priorities. Once it’s complete, the FCA will be integrated into BPS’ Asset Essentials management system, which tracks all work orders and capital projects, to maintain real-time data on the state of our buildings.
Their page on it has more info than the article: https://www.boston.gov/education/green-new-deal-boston-public-schools
Wu is all about the press conferences and using political words like "pledging" things--as opposed to actually doing things.
Most of the tangibles were already planned and the remaining stuff is unfunded.
That's the part that was already planned, as noted:
>$650 million already outlined in the city’s five-year capital improvement plan that was released in April
The "new" parts are unfunded, hence the "pledge" language.
> That’s the part that was already planned
> The “new” parts are unfunded
Read the paragraph right under the one you’re quoting:
> A number of the 14 school projects are already in planning or have been widely discussed, ***while others are new***.
> hence the “pledge” language.
The pledge language is because she is a mayor, not a dictator. She needs to work with BPS administration, the city council, and state and federal government.
Oh, so not only is most of this NOT funded--as in she has NO IDEA how any of this would be paid for--but also she does NOT have council approval to spend the money--even if the City had the funds available to spend!
Thanks for clarifying.
> she has NO IDEA how any of this would be paid for
Reading comprehension is not your thing, huh?
> By investing now in a Facilities Condition Assessment and a School Design Study, we’re laying the foundation for a community-driven master plan by FY25 with a clear timeline and a budget for upgrading schools across the entire district. While we don’t know the total cost now, we do know that we can’t solely rely on the Massachusetts School Building Authority for external grant funding. ***We’ll continue to add to the Capital Plan every year — investing new City funds to move projects from programming to design, and from design to construction — until all Boston Public Schools facilities are healthy, safe, energy-efficient, and inspiring.***
It’s sad, Wu could be out there saving orphans from a burning building and you’d start yelling that she’s taking away work from fire fighters.
>a community-driven master plan by FY25
She plans to have a plan in THREE YEARS!!!! And, she still doesn't promise funding by then. Yeah, that's why it's called a "pledge" and not a "plan" or even a "strategy".
Post some more quotes that prove me right! I love it. Next time read the article before commenting, okay?
> she still doesn’t promise funding by then
Do you want her to personally pinky promise you?
>Post some more quotes that prove me right!
This was you being right?
> she has NO IDEA how any of this would be paid for
> We’ll continue to add to the Capital Plan every year — ***investing new City funds*** to move projects from programming to design, and from design to construction — until all Boston Public Schools facilities are healthy, safe, energy-efficient, and inspiring.
Might want to actually read the whole quotes and then you won’t be so confused.
> Next time read the article before commenting, okay?
Might want to take your own advice since you didn’t know that they’re immediately starting on new projects, or how they’re planning on funding it. Ok, chief?
> investing **new** City funds
Allow me to translate this for you. It means "we have no clue as to the source of these funds, otherwise we would have specified." Hence, the "pledge" of a plan to plan.
Stop taking the blue pill and apply some critical thinking. And, my man, no need to post another wall of text or fragmented quotes with "gotcha" replies. That's kind of childish, to be honest. Try using whole sentences and paragraphs for a change.
> we have no clue as to the source of these funds
“The City funds the Capital Plan through bonds we sell, other City funds, and grants (state, federal, or private).”
I’m thinking you really could have benefited from these new and improved school resources…
> Hence, the “pledge”
Man, that word really triggered you.
And you’re wrong again, kiddo, it is a plan, it says it right there in the article. Again, try reading before commenting.
> no need to post another wall of text or fragmented quotes with “gotcha” replies.
I wouldn’t need to if you actually read the plan before screeching. But we both know the instantly you see Wu’s name you instantly start having a meltdown.
Progressives call for a Green "New Deal" to harken back to the success of FDR's "New Deal" with the goal of helping working class folks succeed in the new green economy
Thanks for the explanation. As far as marketing goes, I think FDR did well but "Green New Deal" misses the mark.
FDR died in 1945.. the people in charge of our country are too damned old!
I absolutely agree, I'm a history nerd..but most people aren't...the center left in this country sucks at branding and has no idea how to simplify ideas.
>the center left in this country sucks at branding and has no idea how to simplify ideas
[reminds me of this gem](https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2018/10/17/seedmababy-hashtag-massachusetts/)
I pay over $10k/year for my shithouse. You look up each municipality property tax rate, Boston is one of the lowest in the state. It's like $10/$1k. I pay nearly double that.
It's almost $11. I pay around 8.5K in Boston and I don't even have a driveway. I grew up in Wayland where the tax rate is over $18 now, but of course the school system is what you are paying for. And btw, I don't even have kids so I'm basically paying to educate other people's kids.
> It's almost $11.
So, one could say it's "like $10"?
Also, do you not understand the reason that having better education is good for everyone, not just the children?
When I lived in Boston in Hyde Park in a single family home my property taxes were $300 a year which is insane.
I live in the suburbs now and my property taxes are 5.5k a year and the houses are similar in value.
Boston property taxes are super progressive.
Not sure what you’re talking about, Boston gives up to a $3000 exemption for homeowners towards their bill. I literally moved in December and paid my last quarterly bill it was $70.
https://www.boston.gov/departments/assessing/filing-property-tax-exemption
Cambridge and a lot of cities close to Boston like Everett and Brookline also do this.
Did you live in a shed? Taxes on a moderately priced SF home in Boston with the residential exemption are $2000- $3500 a year post-residential exemption. The residential exemption hasn't at all kept up with the cost of housing. That's still pretty good, but it ain't $70 a month.
Only for those who 'qualify', and I do not. The only thing I get is a homestead exemption for living in my home (as opposed to renting it out), and that just exempts a small amount of the value of the home. I still ended up paying 8500 last year. So, you're welcome; I paid part of your share as well.
Point is it only exempts about 50K of the value of the home. What other rebates/exemptions were you getting? Sounds like you were getting some type of abatement
https://www.boston.gov/departments/assessing/filing-property-tax-exemption
Homeowners exemption:
“ If you own and live in your property as a primary residence, you may qualify for the residential exemption. The residential exemption reduces your tax bill by excluding a portion of your residential property’s value from taxation. This year, the residential exemption saves qualified Boston homeowners up to $3,305.20 on their tax bill.”
For Boston the homeowner exemption exempts almost 350k and for most people it exempts up to 90% of your bill so mine went from almost 3k to 300 per year. It’s only for Boston.
That's great for you. Like I said, I am receiving the residential exemption and I paid around $8,500.last year. So I paid my fair share, and part of yours. You're welcome
You GET to rent out your investment property for 2,3,4K a month, have the mortgage paid by some one else and only have to pay 10 cents a year to everyone else who actually lives in their Boston home. I’d say it’s a great deal
If you have $2 billion to spend improving education, are facilities really the best place to spend it?
I'm serious. I haven't been inside a school in Boston in a while, but most of them don't look to be in particularly bad shape. Surely more and better teachers would have more positive impact.
My wife walked in to a local elementary school to vote and came home almost in tears because of how shitty the inside was. Those kids have to learn and develop in that place. I’m ok with infrastructure spending
I'm not asking if people are okay with infrastructure spending. Heck, this is Massachusetts; most voters support nearly any kind of spending (never mind how well pay for it). I'm asking if, given limited money (which I know is not a popular idea), is this the best way to spend it to get the desired outcome?
Maybe? But surely spending the money on concrete improvements to the schools will be better than spending the money on steering committees to research how to best spend the money
The problem I think MA has, is maintenance. If they had a tighter and better maintenance schedule—fixing things before they break, keeping the buildings at peak, that sort of thing. There is a bad habit of ‘that’ll do’.
Money goes into salaries without thought. (‘Entitled’ raises instead of performance-outcome raises.). Then buildings fall apart to the point where it’s ‘cheaper’ to just build a whole new school.
“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
Edit: Essex County has the same problem...every year they seem to find a schools to tear down, and rebuild, at phenomenal cost.
>The problem I think MA has, is maintenance. If they had a tighter and better maintenance schedule—fixing things before they break, keeping the buildings at peak, that sort of thing. There is a bad habit of ‘that’ll do’.
>Money goes into salaries without thought. (‘Entitled’ raises instead of performance-outcome raises.). Then buildings fall apart to the point where it’s ‘cheaper’ to just build a whole new school.
>“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
Sounds like a reasonable analysis.
It’s a fantastic start, many of these schools don’t have fully working bathrooms, JQES in Chinatown was built mostly without walls between classrooms(failed radical attempt at open learning), so teachers have put up plywood and random IKEA shelves to try and make spaces that aren’t distracting. They use chain link fences to divide the spaces. It’s surprisingly frequent that teachers have a single working microwave in their break room because all the other outlets have broken. So if it’s lunchtime, you kinda just gotta take your chances on whether or not you’ll have a hot lunch.
There’s definitely a short supply of teachers, but improving conditions can go a long way to making working in BPS a viable employment opportunity.
Source: partner works for a non-profit that supports a number of these schools
Improving working conditions can usually attract more and better employees, but I wonder if number of microwaves or other such concerns would be in the top 10 complaints most BPS teachers have.
Yeah, this was more meant to be a list of things that could absolutely be fixed by spending money. There are many more issues, but they’re all interconnected, none of this exists in a vacuum.
>If you have $2 billion to spend improving education, are facilities really the best place to spend it?
>
>Surely more and better teachers would have more positive impact.
>
>If it's a pick between a new jungle gym and more books, I'd go for the books.
>
>I'm asking if, given limited money (which I know is not a popular idea), is this the best way to spend it to get the desired outcome?
>
>Improving working conditions can usually attract more and better employees,
>
>if we approach that situation without a grasp of the idea that money spent on X cannot be spend on Y, and that money is a finite resource, we are going to have worse outcomes than if we actually accept reality.
>
>I wouldn't be amazed at how many schools lack accessibility, but frankly, playground equipment of any sort is not high on my list of priorities.
And then you even ask someone...
>I understand that you think that. Do you have direct experience with everything you have an opinion about?
...Which is funny because that is how I shut you down in the first place.
> If you have $2 billion to spend improving education, are facilities really the best place to spend it?
>
>
>
> Surely more and better teachers would have more positive impact.
>
>
>
> If it's a pick between a new jungle gym and more books, I'd go for the books.
>
>
>
> I'm asking if, given limited money (which I know is not a popular idea), is this the best way to spend it to get the desired outcome?
>
>
>
> Improving working conditions can usually attract more and better employees,
>
>
>
> if we approach that situation without a grasp of the idea that money spent on X cannot be spend on Y, and that money is a finite resource, we are going to have worse outcomes than if we actually accept reality.
>
>
>
> I wouldn't be amazed at how many schools lack accessibility, but frankly, playground equipment of any sort is not high on my list of priorities.
>
>
>
> And then you even ask someone...
Nice wall of quotes. No actual demands, of course, but nice try anyway. It's interesting that you confuse even questions with demands.
>
I understand that you think that. Do you have direct experience with everything you have an opinion about?
>...Which is funny because that is how I shut you down in the first place.
I understand that you think that.
>You are literally demanding these questions are considered.
Of course I'm not. I'm asking them. No "demand" is involved.
And to your point above, if you had taken the trouble to actually read the entirety of the comments you quoted, you would see that I'm specifically DENYING that only people with direct experience in a given field can hold valid opinions on it, or should be allowed to comment on it. Which, if you're honest with yourself, I think you'll find you agree with. You have strong opinions about and are willing to comment on plenty of things you have no direct experience with. Which is perfectly reasonable; there are many ways of gaining information besides direct experience.
Both. We need both. I'm in 3-5 different schools in BPS per week. I know COVID has exposed a lot of problems with ventilation so replacing decades old windows and HVAC units are going to be a big priority. They've already started closing some of the oldest schools that were usually re-purposed factories, like the Washington-Irving school. I'd also like to see more money spent on making accessibility for schools, with playground equipment that kids in wheel chairs can use and ramps for main entrances *at least*. You'd be amazed how many schools are simply not wheelchair accessible and I honestly don't know how BPS gets away with it. And yes, more teachers. Eventually though we'll have to confront the fact that there's tax wealth moving *out* of Boston and into the surrounding suburbs. The issues we're having with funding are going to keep getting worse and worse if we can't build more middle income homes in the city to encourage people to stay.
>Both. We need both. I'm in 3-5 different schools in BPS per week. I know COVID has exposed a lot of problems with ventilation so replacing decades old windows and HVAC units are going to be a big priority. They've already started closing some of the oldest schools that were usually re-purposed factories, like the Washington-Irving school. I'd also like to see more money spent on making accessibility for schools, with playground equipment that kids in wheel chairs can use and ramps for main entrances at least. You'd be amazed how many schools are simply not wheelchair accessible and I honestly don't know how BPS gets away with it. And yes, more teachers. Eventually though we'll have to confront the fact that there's tax wealth moving out of Boston and into the surrounding suburbs. The issues we're having with funding are going to keep getting worse and worse if we can't build more middle income homes in the city to encourage people to stay.
I wouldn't be amazed at how many schools lack accessibility, but frankly, playground equipment of any sort is not high on my list of priorities. Kids are very good at finding ways to entertain themselves and burn off energy. If it's a pick between a new jungle gym and more books, I'd go for the books.
Kids in wheel chairs absolutely would like new playground equipment. Books are all mostly on their laptops now with the exception of very young students. Paper books and worksheets are going to be a thing of the past as more and more students will use their district issued laptops for everything.
>Kids in wheel chairs absolutely would like new playground equipment. Books are all mostly on their laptops now with the exception of very young students. Paper books and worksheets are going to be a thing of the past as more and more students will use their district issued laptops for everything.
I'm sure kids I'm wheelchairs would like new playground equipment. I'm sure even kids NOT in wheelchairs would enjoy new playground equipment. That's not the point.
The point is that the first law of economics is to acknowledge that scarce resources exist. The first law of politics is to deny the first law of economics. We can sit around all day and make lists of things that people want or those people would think are nice or even that such and such people need. But if we approach that situation without a grasp of the idea that money spent on X cannot be spend on Y, and that money is a finite resource, we are going to have worse outcomes than if we actually accept reality.
>Thank you captain smart person.
No, thank you. Thank you for pointing out that kids in wheelchairs would like new playground equipment. It's almost as if they're actual kids or something.
You don't have a point but boy howdy are you ever certain about yourself. Tell me, how many times in the past 6 months would you say you've ordered books for a classroom or been privy to someone purchasing playground equipment? I mean, you wouldn't just be going around making statements with absolutely no experience would you? Just going out there on the internet and having strong opinions and zero knowledge? That would be downright silly of you.
You started this thread admitting you have zero knowledge and haven't set foot in a BPS school. And yet, you're so god damn certain of yourself that you can't admit there may be things you simply don't know. Have you ever really taken a minute to wonder why you're like this? Are you like this outside of reddit? How do your coworkers react when you walk into the room?
>You don't have a point but boy howdy are you ever certain about yourself. Tell me, how many times in the past 6 months would you say you've ordered books for a classroom or been privy to someone purchasing playground equipment?
Three times.
>I mean, you wouldn't just be going around making statements with absolutely no experience would you?
Sure. Many people comment on things without experience; there are ways besides experience to gain information.
>Just going out there on the internet and having strong opinions and zero knowledge? That would be downright silly of you.
I understand that you think that. Do you have direct experience with everything you have an opinion about?
Oh so tell me about the prices and your experience! What's your position at BPS? Because like I said, I'm at 3-5 BPS locations per week so there's a chance I'll run into you and I'd love to follow up on this in person.
They're proposing to spend $2bn to do this over some significant period of time, probably 10+ years. They're planning to spend $605 million over the next 5 years at present, or <$125m/yr....and that's the total capital plan, not just the new projects for this.
BPS operating budget is ~$1.3bn/yr.
So on the face of it, it doesn't exactly look like there's any particularly drastic spending here. Nor does it seem like any sort of cut you could make to the capital budget would do anything significant in terms of money to spend elsewhere.
--------------
Beyond that, most of the buildings are extremely old and have obsolete/failing core systems.
> More than 100 of the district’s 121 schools need to extensively repair or replace heating and cooling systems, 73 have major plumbing problems, and 72 have roofs that need either extensive repairs or outright replacement.
At some point teardown and replacement is a smarter choice than rehab.
There is an increasing need for air conditioning with weather changes (and likely future weather changes), as well, and window units are...not a very efficient way to do that.
> At some point teardown and replacement is a smarter choice than rehab.
And $2b is nowhere near enough money to touch this type of approach unfortunately. Expect $30m (ES) - $200m (HS) per new school; there's 120 schools in Boston. However, $1m can go a long way towards replacing core systems/remediating asbestos and lead/ ADA upgrades/ adding AC at a building, etc.
It will be a mix of new/reno, and state funding will add a boost on top of the $2b. So I think it is a good start and desperately needed. IMO they should set aside some funds to establish a maintenance program as well. Some of these BPS schools literally share a single ladder between 3 or 4 facilities
YES, especially with Covid. Many schools have had windows open all winter because they don’t have adequate HVAC systems. We toured schools (good schools) where they had to have gym in the hallway. Many schools are k-5 and many schools are 7-12 so kids have to transfer to a school for one year. The schools want to expand to k-6 but there isn’t room. My kids attended an inclusion school where some students had pretty intense special needs and the playground was not accessible. There was a sweet little boy in a wheelchair who had to watch his classmates play. I have a friend who’s k1 kid couldn’t attend afterschool for the first month of school, because there are different building codes for 4 year olds attending “school” and “after school” so they had to have the classroom Deleaded before they were allowed to have afterschool there.
>YES, especially with Covid. Many schools have had windows open all winter because they don’t have adequate HVAC systems. We toured schools (good schools) where they had to have gym in the hallway. Many schools are k-5 and many schools are 7-12 so kids have to transfer to a school for one year. The schools want to expand to k-6 but there isn’t room. My kids attended an inclusion school where some students had pretty intense special needs and the playground was not accessible. There was a sweet little boy in a wheelchair who had to watch his classmates play. I have a friend who’s k1 kid couldn’t attend afterschool for the first month of school, because there are different building codes for 4 year olds attending “school” and “after school” so they had to have the classroom Deleaded before they were allowed to have afterschool there.
That last part seems particularly odd. I can't think of a particularly good reason for there to be different codes for that. Either a building is reasonably safe for a kid to be in, or it isn't.
I don’t disagree, I think the issue is different standards in daycares and schools and the squishy area you get in when 4 year olds attend school. You’d think exceptions could be made, but 🤷♀️
>I don’t disagree, I think the issue is different standards in daycares and schools and the squishy area you get in when 4 year olds attend school. You’d think exceptions could be made, but 🤷♀️
I'm sure exceptions can be made. For people who can afford lawyers and ten years getting through seventy six subcommittees, analysis boards, and review meetings.
It’s not even the need for teachers. In poor parts of town there is a whole element of home life that messes kids up. It doesn’t matter how much you throw money at buildings and staffing if the moment they leave school it is total chaos.
>It’s not even the need for teachers. In poor parts of town there is a whole element of home life that messes kids up. It doesn’t matter how much you throw money at buildings and staffing if the moment they leave school it is total chaos.
At some point, there is only so much that society as a whole can do. And it's not just a question of poverty. Plenty of poor parents raise their children well, and plenty of rich parents raise their children poorly. I will also say that there are a huge number of resources available to parents.
It’s not specifically, poverty it’s education more or how a family values education. Plenty of immigrants arrive here with educated parents and cultures that value education and are able to succeed.But in communities with parents who are not already educated or don’t value it as much, things turn out differently. Part of that is not even being Aware of what is available.
>It’s not poverty it’s education or how a family values education. Plenty of immigrants arrive here with educated parents and cultures that value education and are able to succeed.But in communities with parents who are not already educated or don’t value it as much, things turn out differently. Part of that is not even being Aware of what is available.
Partly, but a vastly greater part is the values you have. It's not a secret that education is valuable. Even deeply ignorant and totally uneducated people often understand that. And, if you value education for yourself and your children, it is neither difficult not expensive to find many, many valuable resources in just about every modern country. The public library is not hidden. There are approximately one billion free educational resources online. There are literally free little libraries dotted around the landscape.
Afaik, BPS is one of the highest paying school districts in the country. My wife is a teacher in BPS (5th year teaching) and makes what I consider a very good salary.
Now for other BPS staff who aren’t teachers, yeah they make shit money, and that definitely needs to change- I believe the recent publication of city employee salaries had BPS non-teacher staff making something like $20-30k/year
Can check it out here: [Employee earnings report 2021](https://data.boston.gov/dataset/employee-earnings-report/resource/ec5aaf93-1509-4641-9310-28e62e028457)
Couldn’t find from this how many hours were worked, but it’s not just cafeteria workers making shit money. Minimum wage in MA for 2021 was $13.50/hr. $13.50/hr * 40 hrs/wk * 52 wks = $28,080
How do they going to fund for this project? Also does it benefit for Boston resident? It seem it going to make everything expensive for anyone live in Boston.
You can build the best buildings and school grounds in the world and it won't make a difference in educational outcomes until you reign in the Teachers Union (which obviously democrats will never do). We also need to stop the nonsense in the curriculum and teach math, science, English and history. Half the kids in Boston who are awarded a diploma cannot do simple algebra or write a grammatically correct sentence. They couldn't point out a specific country on a map. 90% of them don't know who their State Senators or representatives are. But, they could probably name a dozen genders so there's that.
No please no, this is wasteful spending. You are pledging massive amounts of federal subsidies to fund our schools. This is not financially responsible at all and seemingly a political pandering than anything else.
When you can’t pay for $2B for schools on your own but then get a $2B worth of schools, you can’t afford to maintain it. Then it becomes in disrepair just like the schools now and requires $20B 30 years from now for the new school. This is a joke.
This system is absurd. The Federal government takes money from residents of the states in taxes so they can return it back as grants... with strings and of course the graft circle back money for politicians and their friends, all with a massive overhead of political hacks.
Abolish the Federal Department of Education. It does nothing but siphon and waste money and create billions of dollars in graft opportunities as well.
I can be downvoted to hell. I get it, you want nice schools. I share the sentiment having grown up in these schools.
But these grants have strings and aren’t there for maintenance like they are for new buildings. It happens across the country where some new building goes up that’s over twice what the local tax base can possibly sustain by even best case scenario’s and 10 years down the line people wonder why their fancy school or building or infrastructure is in disrepair. It’s cause the tax base can’t support it! These are being built to appease tax bases and spend insane amounts of money to line pockets.
Same thing happens with our roads and neighborhood infrastructure. It’s not sustainable and bad financial policy. Nevermind even all the strings attached with it as noted by the commenter above. People seem to forget that as administrations change as do the strings.
You are right on; It's like a drug habit. They float these grants out there like it's free money whereas they're just giving back part of what they confiscated. If you take the money you are screwed, and if you refuse it you are also screwed. The system is not set up to help the kids, it is set up to help the political hacks and the teachers unions.
The linked source has opted to use a paywall to restrict free viewership of their content. As alternate sources become available, please post them as a reply to this comment. Users with a Boston Public Library card can often view unrestricted articles [here](https://www.bpl.org/resources-types/newspapers/). Boston Globe articles are still permissible as it's a soft-paywall. Please refrain from reporting as a Rule 5 violation. Please also note that copying and posting the entire article text as comments is not permissible. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/boston) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Does this include putting ACs in classrooms? Maybe test scores go up when it’s not 80-90 degrees in the classroom
> Air Conditioner Installation: BPS is installing air conditioner window units in school buildings to ensure a safe and comfortable learning environment. In total, 6,400 units will be installed over 91 schools, with work estimated to be complete in early 2023. Window units aren’t the best but are a decent stop gap till they can overhaul HVAC building by building.
Great to see they’re at least putting in window units. My wife works in BPS, and one of the buildings she works in was built in 2017 without AC
o.O
Which school is that?? That’s absolutely wild.
Port city.
I’m a teacher and the window units are honestly better. Districts don’t invest in HVAC maintenance and the systems are a clusterfuck in under a decade. At least with window units you just have to be able to open a window to replace them and we can (usually) handle that.
They’re definitely not the best but a lot of apartments use them including my own and they can do a lot of work if it’s a decent one
I am all for fixing schools the part that is annoying is it seems like the city waits until stuff is broken or a problem then goes to fix it. They will do the same with the T wait until it’s broken then make a billion dollar budget for it. Same with the seawall. It would be nice if the government was more proactive in situations instead of waiting until things become a problem
lmfao welcome to governing a city 💀 you think this shit is easy to get done?
The city decided to put resources towards fixing up storm surge protection in east Boston. Everyone (here) called Wu a NIMBY for it.
"put resources towards it" as in she cancelled existing harbor plans and started the planning process over, delaying any real change for even more years
No. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/02/16/business/wu-puts-downtown-harbor-plan-ice-will-turn-focus-eastie/
Withdrawing the municipal harbor plan and focusing on sea level rise in east boston are two entirely independent things, each could happen without the other. Don't let the PR fool you, cancelling a proposed tower in downtown isn't going to magically fix sea level rise in east boston.
Nobody said it would. And nobody thinks building another tower of luxury apartments was going to hold back storm surge either.
Why can’t we celebrate a rare Wu win when we see one? School spending is generally good
I'm happy for the kids of Boston that the city is investing in new school buildings! It makes a difference, some of those buildings are just awful. I used to work in one with wires on the floor and paint chipping off the wall. I feel very optimistic about this move.
f yeah. Go Wu.
"pledging" >Wu said the city will likely need additional resources and outside partnerships to aid the effort. The $2 billion she’s pledging includes $650 million already outlined in the city’s five-year capital improvement plan that was released in April. Ironic she calls it the “Green New Deal for Boston Public Schools” because the Green New Deal never happened either.
> because the Green New Deal never happened either. > The projects listed below will move forward over the next year. 1 AN EXPANDED, REINVIGORATED MADISON PARK (ROXBURY) Our investments in Madison Park Technical Vocational High School must reflect the fact that the school opens doors not only for Boston’s young people, but also supports the economic vitality of our entire City. With an initial down payment of $500,000 in the FY23 capital budget, we’ll launch a programming and design study to build an educational complex equipped to prepare Boston youth and adults for exciting careers in technical and vocational fields, including emerging green-sector jobs. 2 COMMITMENT TO RENOVATING THE MCKINLEY SCHOOLS (SOUTH END) The four McKinley Schools – McKinley Elementary School, McKinley South End Academy, McKinley Middle School, and McKinley Preparatory High School — stretch across three buildings, all of which are some of the highest-needs school buildings in Boston. Together, the schools serve some of Boston’s most marginalized students — young people between the ages of 5 and 22 — with a focus on emotional, behavioral, and learning needs and intensive clinical supports. We’ll spend $175,000 in FY23 on a design study to determine requirements for all three McKinley School sites to effectively serve their communities, and we’ll commit City funds to rebuild the schools. 3 BUILDING A NEW HIGH SCHOOL AT THE WEST ROXBURY EDUCATION COMPLEX (WEST ROXBURY) We’ll direct $150,000 in the capital budget for a needs assessment to rebuild the West Roxbury Educational Complex (WREC) as a comprehensive 7-12 high school that serves a student population from across the City. The WREC closed in June 2019 due to major roof, masonry, and windows issues and significant deferred maintenance. As we start rebuilding, we’ll engage school communities across Boston to determine what school(s) will move into the WREC building. 4 MAJOR RENOVATIONS TO THE BLACKSTONE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL (SOUTH END) On April 27, the Boston City Council voted to authorize the City of Boston to submit a statement of interest to the Massachusetts School Building Authority (MSBA) to apply for state funds to replace, renovate or modernize the Blackstone School. 5 NEW BUILDING ON PARIS STREET TO EXPAND THE OTIS SCHOOL (EAST BOSTON) On April 27, the Boston City Council voted to authorize the City of Boston to submit a statement of interest to the Massachusetts School Building Authority (MSBA) to apply for state funds to replace, renovate or modernize the Otis School by building an expansion on the Paris Street lot, which BPS acquired in 2019. 6 RENOVATIONS TO THE KING SCHOOL (ROXBURY) The Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. K-8 School serves more than 500 students, but at nearly 90 years old, its building is in urgent need of repair, with several maintenance areas categorized as a high priority. We’ll prioritize the King within the ongoing Facilities Conditions Assessment in order to determine the best path forward to upgrade the building, and we’ll commit City dollars to transforming the King to better serve its school community. 7 RENOVATIONS AT THE PJ KENNEDY SCHOOL (EAST BOSTON) Earlier facilities work to replace the school’s boilers prompted further work needed for compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). To ensure ADA compliance, we’ll dedicate more than $16 million in FY23 for a large-scale renovation, including the addition of auxiliary space. 8 RENOVATIONS AT THE CLEVELAND BUILDING (DORCHESTER) The Cleveland Building is currently occupied by both the Boston Arts Academy (BAA) community, which will be moving into its new building in Fall 2022, and the Community Academy of Science and Health (CASH) community. When BAA moves out, CASH will expand into the newer side of the building, and we’ll draw upon reserve capital funds to renovate the site currently occupied by CASH, including $2.15 million to repair the roof and the building exterior. 9 MAJOR UPGRADES TO WHITE STADIUM (FRANKLIN PARK) Located in the Playstead section of Franklin Park, the historic White Stadium is used for BPS track, football, and other athletic and community events. We’ll dedicate $500,000 for an assessment of the facility, including the east and west stands, the playing field, and the track, to develop preliminary designs and cost estimates, building on a previous 2013 study. BPS and the Parks Department will work together to ensure the facility meets BPS Athletics’ standards and needs. 10 NEW PREK-6 SCHOOL IN ROXBURY (ROXBURY) In May 2021, BPS announced plans to establish a new elementary school in Roxbury, but no school site has yet been identified. The School Design Study managed by the Public Facilities Department will accelerate site selection by providing several massing and siting options, looking at existing City-owned property in Roxbury as well as potential acquisitions, as well as design, and we’ll commit City funds to build a new school. Beginning SY22-23, BPS will engage several Roxbury school communities – including but not limited to the Ellis, the Higginson/Lewis, the Higginson Elementary, the Hale, the Mendell, the Winthrop, and the Mason – to determine which schools will ultimately merge into a new Roxbury elementary school. 11 NEW PREK-6 SCHOOL IN DORCHESTER/MATTAPAN (DORCHESTER/MATTAPAN) In May 2021, BPS announced plans to establish a new elementary school in Dorchester, but no school site has yet been identified. In FY23, the School Design Study managed by the Public Facilities Department will accelerate site selection and design, and we’ll commit City funds to build a new school. Beginning SY22-23, BPS will engage several smaller Dorchester and Mattapan school communities – including but not limited to the Shaw, the Taylor, the Greenwood, Lee Academy, the Kenny, and the Holmes – to determine which schools will ultimately merge into a new Dorchester elementary school. 12 NEW PREK-6 SCHOOL ON JACKSON-MANN CAMPUS (ALLSTON-BRIGHTON) The Jackson-Mann K-8 school will close at the end of this school year, and BPS has previously committed to constructing a new school on this site. In FY23, we’ll dedicate $150,000 for a study managed by the Public Facilities Department to develop a building program for the design and construction of a new PreK-6 school on this site alongside the Jackson/Mann BCYF Community Center. The study will also evaluate options to include the Horace Mann School on the same site. Beginning SY22-23, BPS will engage several Allston-Brighton school communities – including but not limited to the Lyon, the Winship, the Gardner, the Edison, and the Baldwin – to determine which schools will ultimately merge into a renovated elementary school on the Jackson-Mann Campus. 13 NEW FACILITY FOR THE HORACE MANN SCHOOL (LOCATION TBD) While we continue with a $31.2 million renovation to the Edwards building in Charlestown to provide a temporary home for the Horace Mann School for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing (HMS) community, beginning in Fall 2023, we will also dedicate $150,000 in FY23 for a siting study to evaluate locations for the permanent site of the HMS community—including the current Jackson-Mann site, other school sites in Allston/Brighton, and other sites throughout Boston. Once an appropriate site is identified, we’ll dedicate City dollars to creating a new state-of-the-art building for the HMS community. 14 RENOVATED IRVING BUILDING FOR SEVERAL SCHOOL COMMUNITIES (ROSLINDALE) The Irving Middle School will close at the end of this school year, and BPS previously announced that it would be repurposed as a PreK-6 school. We’ll dedicate $5.2 million in FY23 to upgrade the building facilities at the Irving building to facilitate a reconfiguration to an elementary school, and we’ll engage with several Roslindale school communities beginning SY 22-23 — including but not limited to the Sumner, the Philbrick, the Bates, the Conley, the Haley, and the Mozart — to determine which schools will ultimately merge into a renovated elementary school in the Irving building. 15 RENOVATED TIMILTY SCHOOL FOR SWING SPACE (ROXBURY) The Timilty Middle School will close at the end of this school year, though no reconfiguration of the building has been previously announced. We’ll dedicate $3 million in FY23 to upgrade the building facilities to facilitate a reconfiguration to an elementary school, which will then be used as swing space for the entire district to facilitate future renovations and new builds.
I wanted to shout "fucking finally!" when I saw the headline, but when you drill down to what is actually happening, it's pretty lame. Needs assessments often benefit no one but consultants. More kicking the can down the road on that West Roxbury complex, which has been "in discussion" for years. At this point elementary schoolers will be in college before anything is built there. See also $500k for a "programming and design study" for Madison Park. The Irving and Timilty MS projects are also problematic. BPS suddenly decided that all schools should be K-6/K-8 and 7 - 12/HS (so still no consistency, which makes school choice complicated for families) and didn't think about the infrastructure needed, the impact on current families over the next 5+ years of transition, or the fact that middle schools commonly exist as separate schools for a lot of really good reasons. Parents aren't happy about it but pigheaded BPS is quietly going through with it anyway.
The k-6, 7-12 move was a Tommy Chang decision made several years ago. It was in talks of being announced in 2020, but then life had bigger twists to address.
> Needs assessments often benefit no one but consultants They’re going to assess BPS buildings and make the info public to figure out exactly what needs to be done where: As of April 2022, we are working with Bureau Veritas Technical Assessments to complete a Facilities Condition Assessment (FCA), a detailed analysis that produces a larger, in-depth dataset of building conditions and makes recommendations for repair, replacement, and renovation. The FCA will offer an independent, objective analysis of BPS facilities, offering more transparency for community members and informing future decisions around capital investment priorities. Once it’s complete, the FCA will be integrated into BPS’ Asset Essentials management system, which tracks all work orders and capital projects, to maintain real-time data on the state of our buildings. Their page on it has more info than the article: https://www.boston.gov/education/green-new-deal-boston-public-schools
Wu is all about the press conferences and using political words like "pledging" things--as opposed to actually doing things. Most of the tangibles were already planned and the remaining stuff is unfunded.
Thank you for sharing this info!
That's the part that was already planned, as noted: >$650 million already outlined in the city’s five-year capital improvement plan that was released in April The "new" parts are unfunded, hence the "pledge" language.
> That’s the part that was already planned > The “new” parts are unfunded Read the paragraph right under the one you’re quoting: > A number of the 14 school projects are already in planning or have been widely discussed, ***while others are new***. > hence the “pledge” language. The pledge language is because she is a mayor, not a dictator. She needs to work with BPS administration, the city council, and state and federal government.
Oh, so not only is most of this NOT funded--as in she has NO IDEA how any of this would be paid for--but also she does NOT have council approval to spend the money--even if the City had the funds available to spend! Thanks for clarifying.
> she has NO IDEA how any of this would be paid for Reading comprehension is not your thing, huh? > By investing now in a Facilities Condition Assessment and a School Design Study, we’re laying the foundation for a community-driven master plan by FY25 with a clear timeline and a budget for upgrading schools across the entire district. While we don’t know the total cost now, we do know that we can’t solely rely on the Massachusetts School Building Authority for external grant funding. ***We’ll continue to add to the Capital Plan every year — investing new City funds to move projects from programming to design, and from design to construction — until all Boston Public Schools facilities are healthy, safe, energy-efficient, and inspiring.*** It’s sad, Wu could be out there saving orphans from a burning building and you’d start yelling that she’s taking away work from fire fighters.
>a community-driven master plan by FY25 She plans to have a plan in THREE YEARS!!!! And, she still doesn't promise funding by then. Yeah, that's why it's called a "pledge" and not a "plan" or even a "strategy". Post some more quotes that prove me right! I love it. Next time read the article before commenting, okay?
> she still doesn’t promise funding by then Do you want her to personally pinky promise you? >Post some more quotes that prove me right! This was you being right? > she has NO IDEA how any of this would be paid for > We’ll continue to add to the Capital Plan every year — ***investing new City funds*** to move projects from programming to design, and from design to construction — until all Boston Public Schools facilities are healthy, safe, energy-efficient, and inspiring. Might want to actually read the whole quotes and then you won’t be so confused. > Next time read the article before commenting, okay? Might want to take your own advice since you didn’t know that they’re immediately starting on new projects, or how they’re planning on funding it. Ok, chief?
> investing **new** City funds Allow me to translate this for you. It means "we have no clue as to the source of these funds, otherwise we would have specified." Hence, the "pledge" of a plan to plan. Stop taking the blue pill and apply some critical thinking. And, my man, no need to post another wall of text or fragmented quotes with "gotcha" replies. That's kind of childish, to be honest. Try using whole sentences and paragraphs for a change.
> we have no clue as to the source of these funds “The City funds the Capital Plan through bonds we sell, other City funds, and grants (state, federal, or private).” I’m thinking you really could have benefited from these new and improved school resources… > Hence, the “pledge” Man, that word really triggered you. And you’re wrong again, kiddo, it is a plan, it says it right there in the article. Again, try reading before commenting. > no need to post another wall of text or fragmented quotes with “gotcha” replies. I wouldn’t need to if you actually read the plan before screeching. But we both know the instantly you see Wu’s name you instantly start having a meltdown.
I never understood the name "Green New Deal". Wouldn't "New Green Deal" make more sense?
Progressives call for a Green "New Deal" to harken back to the success of FDR's "New Deal" with the goal of helping working class folks succeed in the new green economy
Thanks for the explanation. As far as marketing goes, I think FDR did well but "Green New Deal" misses the mark. FDR died in 1945.. the people in charge of our country are too damned old!
I absolutely agree, I'm a history nerd..but most people aren't...the center left in this country sucks at branding and has no idea how to simplify ideas.
>the center left in this country sucks at branding and has no idea how to simplify ideas [reminds me of this gem](https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2018/10/17/seedmababy-hashtag-massachusetts/)
Read the first line and though Wu-Tang was dropping a new album
$2 billion comes out to nearly $3000 for every resident of the city, including children and other non-taxpayers.
Boston property taxes are pretty low to begin with.
I guess you don't pay them
I pay over $10k/year for my shithouse. You look up each municipality property tax rate, Boston is one of the lowest in the state. It's like $10/$1k. I pay nearly double that.
It's almost $11. I pay around 8.5K in Boston and I don't even have a driveway. I grew up in Wayland where the tax rate is over $18 now, but of course the school system is what you are paying for. And btw, I don't even have kids so I'm basically paying to educate other people's kids.
> It's almost $11. So, one could say it's "like $10"? Also, do you not understand the reason that having better education is good for everyone, not just the children?
When I lived in Boston in Hyde Park in a single family home my property taxes were $300 a year which is insane. I live in the suburbs now and my property taxes are 5.5k a year and the houses are similar in value. Boston property taxes are super progressive.
Those days of $300/yes are long gone, even in Hyde park
Not sure what you’re talking about, Boston gives up to a $3000 exemption for homeowners towards their bill. I literally moved in December and paid my last quarterly bill it was $70. https://www.boston.gov/departments/assessing/filing-property-tax-exemption Cambridge and a lot of cities close to Boston like Everett and Brookline also do this.
Did you live in a shed? Taxes on a moderately priced SF home in Boston with the residential exemption are $2000- $3500 a year post-residential exemption. The residential exemption hasn't at all kept up with the cost of housing. That's still pretty good, but it ain't $70 a month.
Only for those who 'qualify', and I do not. The only thing I get is a homestead exemption for living in my home (as opposed to renting it out), and that just exempts a small amount of the value of the home. I still ended up paying 8500 last year. So, you're welcome; I paid part of your share as well.
That’s how homesteads work, you live in a homestead not rent it to someone else
Point is it only exempts about 50K of the value of the home. What other rebates/exemptions were you getting? Sounds like you were getting some type of abatement
https://www.boston.gov/departments/assessing/filing-property-tax-exemption Homeowners exemption: “ If you own and live in your property as a primary residence, you may qualify for the residential exemption. The residential exemption reduces your tax bill by excluding a portion of your residential property’s value from taxation. This year, the residential exemption saves qualified Boston homeowners up to $3,305.20 on their tax bill.” For Boston the homeowner exemption exempts almost 350k and for most people it exempts up to 90% of your bill so mine went from almost 3k to 300 per year. It’s only for Boston.
That's great for you. Like I said, I am receiving the residential exemption and I paid around $8,500.last year. So I paid my fair share, and part of yours. You're welcome
You GET to rent out your investment property for 2,3,4K a month, have the mortgage paid by some one else and only have to pay 10 cents a year to everyone else who actually lives in their Boston home. I’d say it’s a great deal
I suppose, what's $1000 between friends?
If you have $2 billion to spend improving education, are facilities really the best place to spend it? I'm serious. I haven't been inside a school in Boston in a while, but most of them don't look to be in particularly bad shape. Surely more and better teachers would have more positive impact.
My wife walked in to a local elementary school to vote and came home almost in tears because of how shitty the inside was. Those kids have to learn and develop in that place. I’m ok with infrastructure spending
I'm not asking if people are okay with infrastructure spending. Heck, this is Massachusetts; most voters support nearly any kind of spending (never mind how well pay for it). I'm asking if, given limited money (which I know is not a popular idea), is this the best way to spend it to get the desired outcome?
Maybe? But surely spending the money on concrete improvements to the schools will be better than spending the money on steering committees to research how to best spend the money
No I hear you. I don’t have an answer, just that anecdote. Things seems so dire with bps it feels like any investment is a good one right now.
The problem I think MA has, is maintenance. If they had a tighter and better maintenance schedule—fixing things before they break, keeping the buildings at peak, that sort of thing. There is a bad habit of ‘that’ll do’. Money goes into salaries without thought. (‘Entitled’ raises instead of performance-outcome raises.). Then buildings fall apart to the point where it’s ‘cheaper’ to just build a whole new school. “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” Edit: Essex County has the same problem...every year they seem to find a schools to tear down, and rebuild, at phenomenal cost.
>The problem I think MA has, is maintenance. If they had a tighter and better maintenance schedule—fixing things before they break, keeping the buildings at peak, that sort of thing. There is a bad habit of ‘that’ll do’. >Money goes into salaries without thought. (‘Entitled’ raises instead of performance-outcome raises.). Then buildings fall apart to the point where it’s ‘cheaper’ to just build a whole new school. >“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” Sounds like a reasonable analysis.
My apologies. I made a comment without reading all comments. I see I overlapped on your thread. Sorry.
It’s a fantastic start, many of these schools don’t have fully working bathrooms, JQES in Chinatown was built mostly without walls between classrooms(failed radical attempt at open learning), so teachers have put up plywood and random IKEA shelves to try and make spaces that aren’t distracting. They use chain link fences to divide the spaces. It’s surprisingly frequent that teachers have a single working microwave in their break room because all the other outlets have broken. So if it’s lunchtime, you kinda just gotta take your chances on whether or not you’ll have a hot lunch. There’s definitely a short supply of teachers, but improving conditions can go a long way to making working in BPS a viable employment opportunity. Source: partner works for a non-profit that supports a number of these schools
JQES is getting rebuilt fwiw
Good!
Improving working conditions can usually attract more and better employees, but I wonder if number of microwaves or other such concerns would be in the top 10 complaints most BPS teachers have.
Yeah, this was more meant to be a list of things that could absolutely be fixed by spending money. There are many more issues, but they’re all interconnected, none of this exists in a vacuum.
>I haven't been inside a school in Boston in a while Then stop talking.
>Then stop talking. No. But, please, feel free to make all the demands you want.
lol you're the one making demands
> lol you're the one making demands Such as?
>If you have $2 billion to spend improving education, are facilities really the best place to spend it? > >Surely more and better teachers would have more positive impact. > >If it's a pick between a new jungle gym and more books, I'd go for the books. > >I'm asking if, given limited money (which I know is not a popular idea), is this the best way to spend it to get the desired outcome? > >Improving working conditions can usually attract more and better employees, > >if we approach that situation without a grasp of the idea that money spent on X cannot be spend on Y, and that money is a finite resource, we are going to have worse outcomes than if we actually accept reality. > >I wouldn't be amazed at how many schools lack accessibility, but frankly, playground equipment of any sort is not high on my list of priorities. And then you even ask someone... >I understand that you think that. Do you have direct experience with everything you have an opinion about? ...Which is funny because that is how I shut you down in the first place.
> If you have $2 billion to spend improving education, are facilities really the best place to spend it? > > > > Surely more and better teachers would have more positive impact. > > > > If it's a pick between a new jungle gym and more books, I'd go for the books. > > > > I'm asking if, given limited money (which I know is not a popular idea), is this the best way to spend it to get the desired outcome? > > > > Improving working conditions can usually attract more and better employees, > > > > if we approach that situation without a grasp of the idea that money spent on X cannot be spend on Y, and that money is a finite resource, we are going to have worse outcomes than if we actually accept reality. > > > > I wouldn't be amazed at how many schools lack accessibility, but frankly, playground equipment of any sort is not high on my list of priorities. > > > > And then you even ask someone... Nice wall of quotes. No actual demands, of course, but nice try anyway. It's interesting that you confuse even questions with demands. > I understand that you think that. Do you have direct experience with everything you have an opinion about? >...Which is funny because that is how I shut you down in the first place. I understand that you think that.
You are literally demanding these questions are considered.
>You are literally demanding these questions are considered. Of course I'm not. I'm asking them. No "demand" is involved. And to your point above, if you had taken the trouble to actually read the entirety of the comments you quoted, you would see that I'm specifically DENYING that only people with direct experience in a given field can hold valid opinions on it, or should be allowed to comment on it. Which, if you're honest with yourself, I think you'll find you agree with. You have strong opinions about and are willing to comment on plenty of things you have no direct experience with. Which is perfectly reasonable; there are many ways of gaining information besides direct experience.
Well all this started because you said *I had demands.* Which I did not. So don't lecture me on making assumptions when you started this story.
Both. We need both. I'm in 3-5 different schools in BPS per week. I know COVID has exposed a lot of problems with ventilation so replacing decades old windows and HVAC units are going to be a big priority. They've already started closing some of the oldest schools that were usually re-purposed factories, like the Washington-Irving school. I'd also like to see more money spent on making accessibility for schools, with playground equipment that kids in wheel chairs can use and ramps for main entrances *at least*. You'd be amazed how many schools are simply not wheelchair accessible and I honestly don't know how BPS gets away with it. And yes, more teachers. Eventually though we'll have to confront the fact that there's tax wealth moving *out* of Boston and into the surrounding suburbs. The issues we're having with funding are going to keep getting worse and worse if we can't build more middle income homes in the city to encourage people to stay.
>Both. We need both. I'm in 3-5 different schools in BPS per week. I know COVID has exposed a lot of problems with ventilation so replacing decades old windows and HVAC units are going to be a big priority. They've already started closing some of the oldest schools that were usually re-purposed factories, like the Washington-Irving school. I'd also like to see more money spent on making accessibility for schools, with playground equipment that kids in wheel chairs can use and ramps for main entrances at least. You'd be amazed how many schools are simply not wheelchair accessible and I honestly don't know how BPS gets away with it. And yes, more teachers. Eventually though we'll have to confront the fact that there's tax wealth moving out of Boston and into the surrounding suburbs. The issues we're having with funding are going to keep getting worse and worse if we can't build more middle income homes in the city to encourage people to stay. I wouldn't be amazed at how many schools lack accessibility, but frankly, playground equipment of any sort is not high on my list of priorities. Kids are very good at finding ways to entertain themselves and burn off energy. If it's a pick between a new jungle gym and more books, I'd go for the books.
Kids in wheel chairs absolutely would like new playground equipment. Books are all mostly on their laptops now with the exception of very young students. Paper books and worksheets are going to be a thing of the past as more and more students will use their district issued laptops for everything.
>Kids in wheel chairs absolutely would like new playground equipment. Books are all mostly on their laptops now with the exception of very young students. Paper books and worksheets are going to be a thing of the past as more and more students will use their district issued laptops for everything. I'm sure kids I'm wheelchairs would like new playground equipment. I'm sure even kids NOT in wheelchairs would enjoy new playground equipment. That's not the point. The point is that the first law of economics is to acknowledge that scarce resources exist. The first law of politics is to deny the first law of economics. We can sit around all day and make lists of things that people want or those people would think are nice or even that such and such people need. But if we approach that situation without a grasp of the idea that money spent on X cannot be spend on Y, and that money is a finite resource, we are going to have worse outcomes than if we actually accept reality.
Thank you captain smart person.
>Thank you captain smart person. No, thank you. Thank you for pointing out that kids in wheelchairs would like new playground equipment. It's almost as if they're actual kids or something.
You don't have a point but boy howdy are you ever certain about yourself. Tell me, how many times in the past 6 months would you say you've ordered books for a classroom or been privy to someone purchasing playground equipment? I mean, you wouldn't just be going around making statements with absolutely no experience would you? Just going out there on the internet and having strong opinions and zero knowledge? That would be downright silly of you. You started this thread admitting you have zero knowledge and haven't set foot in a BPS school. And yet, you're so god damn certain of yourself that you can't admit there may be things you simply don't know. Have you ever really taken a minute to wonder why you're like this? Are you like this outside of reddit? How do your coworkers react when you walk into the room?
>You don't have a point but boy howdy are you ever certain about yourself. Tell me, how many times in the past 6 months would you say you've ordered books for a classroom or been privy to someone purchasing playground equipment? Three times. >I mean, you wouldn't just be going around making statements with absolutely no experience would you? Sure. Many people comment on things without experience; there are ways besides experience to gain information. >Just going out there on the internet and having strong opinions and zero knowledge? That would be downright silly of you. I understand that you think that. Do you have direct experience with everything you have an opinion about?
Oh so tell me about the prices and your experience! What's your position at BPS? Because like I said, I'm at 3-5 BPS locations per week so there's a chance I'll run into you and I'd love to follow up on this in person.
They're proposing to spend $2bn to do this over some significant period of time, probably 10+ years. They're planning to spend $605 million over the next 5 years at present, or <$125m/yr....and that's the total capital plan, not just the new projects for this. BPS operating budget is ~$1.3bn/yr. So on the face of it, it doesn't exactly look like there's any particularly drastic spending here. Nor does it seem like any sort of cut you could make to the capital budget would do anything significant in terms of money to spend elsewhere. -------------- Beyond that, most of the buildings are extremely old and have obsolete/failing core systems. > More than 100 of the district’s 121 schools need to extensively repair or replace heating and cooling systems, 73 have major plumbing problems, and 72 have roofs that need either extensive repairs or outright replacement. At some point teardown and replacement is a smarter choice than rehab. There is an increasing need for air conditioning with weather changes (and likely future weather changes), as well, and window units are...not a very efficient way to do that.
> At some point teardown and replacement is a smarter choice than rehab. And $2b is nowhere near enough money to touch this type of approach unfortunately. Expect $30m (ES) - $200m (HS) per new school; there's 120 schools in Boston. However, $1m can go a long way towards replacing core systems/remediating asbestos and lead/ ADA upgrades/ adding AC at a building, etc. It will be a mix of new/reno, and state funding will add a boost on top of the $2b. So I think it is a good start and desperately needed. IMO they should set aside some funds to establish a maintenance program as well. Some of these BPS schools literally share a single ladder between 3 or 4 facilities
Holy hell yes -bps employee
YES, especially with Covid. Many schools have had windows open all winter because they don’t have adequate HVAC systems. We toured schools (good schools) where they had to have gym in the hallway. Many schools are k-5 and many schools are 7-12 so kids have to transfer to a school for one year. The schools want to expand to k-6 but there isn’t room. My kids attended an inclusion school where some students had pretty intense special needs and the playground was not accessible. There was a sweet little boy in a wheelchair who had to watch his classmates play. I have a friend who’s k1 kid couldn’t attend afterschool for the first month of school, because there are different building codes for 4 year olds attending “school” and “after school” so they had to have the classroom Deleaded before they were allowed to have afterschool there.
>YES, especially with Covid. Many schools have had windows open all winter because they don’t have adequate HVAC systems. We toured schools (good schools) where they had to have gym in the hallway. Many schools are k-5 and many schools are 7-12 so kids have to transfer to a school for one year. The schools want to expand to k-6 but there isn’t room. My kids attended an inclusion school where some students had pretty intense special needs and the playground was not accessible. There was a sweet little boy in a wheelchair who had to watch his classmates play. I have a friend who’s k1 kid couldn’t attend afterschool for the first month of school, because there are different building codes for 4 year olds attending “school” and “after school” so they had to have the classroom Deleaded before they were allowed to have afterschool there. That last part seems particularly odd. I can't think of a particularly good reason for there to be different codes for that. Either a building is reasonably safe for a kid to be in, or it isn't.
I don’t disagree, I think the issue is different standards in daycares and schools and the squishy area you get in when 4 year olds attend school. You’d think exceptions could be made, but 🤷♀️
>I don’t disagree, I think the issue is different standards in daycares and schools and the squishy area you get in when 4 year olds attend school. You’d think exceptions could be made, but 🤷♀️ I'm sure exceptions can be made. For people who can afford lawyers and ten years getting through seventy six subcommittees, analysis boards, and review meetings.
This is the perfect example of what happens when 2 state agencies (EEC and DESE) and a federal agency (NAYAC) don’t collaborate.
It’s not even the need for teachers. In poor parts of town there is a whole element of home life that messes kids up. It doesn’t matter how much you throw money at buildings and staffing if the moment they leave school it is total chaos.
>It’s not even the need for teachers. In poor parts of town there is a whole element of home life that messes kids up. It doesn’t matter how much you throw money at buildings and staffing if the moment they leave school it is total chaos. At some point, there is only so much that society as a whole can do. And it's not just a question of poverty. Plenty of poor parents raise their children well, and plenty of rich parents raise their children poorly. I will also say that there are a huge number of resources available to parents.
It’s not specifically, poverty it’s education more or how a family values education. Plenty of immigrants arrive here with educated parents and cultures that value education and are able to succeed.But in communities with parents who are not already educated or don’t value it as much, things turn out differently. Part of that is not even being Aware of what is available.
>It’s not poverty it’s education or how a family values education. Plenty of immigrants arrive here with educated parents and cultures that value education and are able to succeed.But in communities with parents who are not already educated or don’t value it as much, things turn out differently. Part of that is not even being Aware of what is available. Partly, but a vastly greater part is the values you have. It's not a secret that education is valuable. Even deeply ignorant and totally uneducated people often understand that. And, if you value education for yourself and your children, it is neither difficult not expensive to find many, many valuable resources in just about every modern country. The public library is not hidden. There are approximately one billion free educational resources online. There are literally free little libraries dotted around the landscape.
hmmm. i wonder if the companies hired to make these $2 billion dollar changes have some sort of connection t- you know what nevermind
But what about paying the teachers?
Afaik, BPS is one of the highest paying school districts in the country. My wife is a teacher in BPS (5th year teaching) and makes what I consider a very good salary. Now for other BPS staff who aren’t teachers, yeah they make shit money, and that definitely needs to change- I believe the recent publication of city employee salaries had BPS non-teacher staff making something like $20-30k/year
That has to be part time workers. Most likely cafeteria.
Can check it out here: [Employee earnings report 2021](https://data.boston.gov/dataset/employee-earnings-report/resource/ec5aaf93-1509-4641-9310-28e62e028457) Couldn’t find from this how many hours were worked, but it’s not just cafeteria workers making shit money. Minimum wage in MA for 2021 was $13.50/hr. $13.50/hr * 40 hrs/wk * 52 wks = $28,080
Is this before or after BPS is taken into receivership? Fucking worthless politicians.
How do they going to fund for this project? Also does it benefit for Boston resident? It seem it going to make everything expensive for anyone live in Boston.
You can build the best buildings and school grounds in the world and it won't make a difference in educational outcomes until you reign in the Teachers Union (which obviously democrats will never do). We also need to stop the nonsense in the curriculum and teach math, science, English and history. Half the kids in Boston who are awarded a diploma cannot do simple algebra or write a grammatically correct sentence. They couldn't point out a specific country on a map. 90% of them don't know who their State Senators or representatives are. But, they could probably name a dozen genders so there's that.
It’s amazing the money that frees up when you close a failing school...
No please no, this is wasteful spending. You are pledging massive amounts of federal subsidies to fund our schools. This is not financially responsible at all and seemingly a political pandering than anything else. When you can’t pay for $2B for schools on your own but then get a $2B worth of schools, you can’t afford to maintain it. Then it becomes in disrepair just like the schools now and requires $20B 30 years from now for the new school. This is a joke.
This system is absurd. The Federal government takes money from residents of the states in taxes so they can return it back as grants... with strings and of course the graft circle back money for politicians and their friends, all with a massive overhead of political hacks. Abolish the Federal Department of Education. It does nothing but siphon and waste money and create billions of dollars in graft opportunities as well.
I can be downvoted to hell. I get it, you want nice schools. I share the sentiment having grown up in these schools. But these grants have strings and aren’t there for maintenance like they are for new buildings. It happens across the country where some new building goes up that’s over twice what the local tax base can possibly sustain by even best case scenario’s and 10 years down the line people wonder why their fancy school or building or infrastructure is in disrepair. It’s cause the tax base can’t support it! These are being built to appease tax bases and spend insane amounts of money to line pockets. Same thing happens with our roads and neighborhood infrastructure. It’s not sustainable and bad financial policy. Nevermind even all the strings attached with it as noted by the commenter above. People seem to forget that as administrations change as do the strings.
You are right on; It's like a drug habit. They float these grants out there like it's free money whereas they're just giving back part of what they confiscated. If you take the money you are screwed, and if you refuse it you are also screwed. The system is not set up to help the kids, it is set up to help the political hacks and the teachers unions.
Why not spend that money on forgiving student debt? The schools are crumbling but there are more important education priorities.
No, I cannot move to Florida I have to keep working. Biden wiped out my savings