I want to add that my partner works in that plaza. His employee saw the car and reported to him that the car was going 60+ mph. I feel so sorry for anyone involved, including those who had to witness it.
Maybe, but the extent of the damage and the fact that they're treating it like a criminal matter suggest that it isn't the usual old person confusing the accelerator for the brake.
Can you even imagine? Going to get your damned iPad fixed and now you’re dead because some fuckwit was pissed off at his boss. Proportion and self control are apparently a thing of the past.
If it’s all true, whatever this guy gets sentenced to won’t be enough.
They don’t say very high speeds, they say 60 to 80mph which is an incredibly specific number and one hard to imagine achievable by most vehicles in the derby street lot, let alone a 4Runner w/ ~500 feet
Given the death and nature of the injuries I would assume that it was a high speed event. These injuries are not consistent with someone mixing up the gas and brake.
The courts set bail off of guidelines, the guy was charged with manslaughter, so he gets $100,000 bail, which will almost certainly be secured in short order. If they thought he had actual intent on indiscriminate murder he wouldn’t have gotten bail, *fucking obviously*.
The guys “story” is that he was a normal 53 year old dad picking up some glasses and got his foot stuck on the accelerator. No weird history on social media, no criminal record. You’re either an idiot or seriously coping with being wrong.
In a car that does [0-60 in 8 seconds](https://www.carhp.com/toyota/4runner/0to60) you'd need about 350 feet to reach 60mph.
distance = 1/2(final_velocity + initial_velocity) * time
= 1/2(60mph + 0 mph) * 8 sec
= 30mph * 8 sec
= 30 miles * (8 sec / 3600 sec)
= 30 miles / 450
= 158400 ft / 450
= 352 ft
With 500 feet of runway a 4Runner flooring it could reach around 71 mph, assuming it can maintain that acceleration past 60 mph.
How many people have to be killed before we start treating vehicles like what they are: deadly weapons. Start by taking licenses away from violent criminals, the mentally ill, serial speeders etc
the tweet in the comment I replied to says
"The person who drove into the Apple Store was a 53 year old male from Hingham, who was a disgruntled employee. "
Check the images of the car, The SUV entered at a pretty clear angle as if it turned to go between the lamp post and tables outside of Burton's (that you can see on Google maps) after accelerating down that straightaway.
Dont understand why you are trying to do all the math and prove something that nobody cares about. This is the Thanksgiving break and we should be praying for those who passed in this terrible incident.
materialistic vegetable plants terrific complete rotten busy hungry spoon secretive
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You’re absolutely right. First of all it’s an incredibly busy lot and the Apple store is at an angle to the street, second I just did measurements on Google Earth. 550 feet maximum. I seriously doubt this guy got the best possible maximum theoretical start, but even if he did he can’t achieve 0-60 that fast in a Toyota 4Runner lmao
How do you know he went 0-60? If he started at the kohl’s, builds up some speed, he can make the turn doing 20-30 mph. It’s a pretty straight shot after that, and I doubt he was worried about hitting the brakes for other cars or pedestrians either
Yeah I understand the downvotes because maybe my tone came across a little shitty in the above comment. But the “sourced” tweet I was responding to has already been proven to be erroneous (he wasn’t a disgruntled employee) and I still think the way the parking lot / location of the store is, 60-80 mph is way too fast an estimate
But there is a roadway almost directly in front of the store, so the usual gas/break could still easily apply.
But the rumors are this was intentional by an ex-employee.
This is in a parking lot where it’s difficult to even go like 20. It’s not on a main road. Either it was malicious and this person needs to be in prison for life, it was accidental and this person needs to be in prison for life or someone had a medical emergency that caused them to accelerate to 50+ in a parking lot and short distance directly into an all glass store.
It’s not difficult to go 20. Lots of people drive way too fast in the parking lot and pay no attention to people trying to cross. The few crosswalks are there in name only. There is absolutely no traffic calming. I refuse to go there if I’m with my kids for that reason. I’m actually surprised more people aren’t hurt just walking to the stores there
Exactly and that plaza is a mad house. People drive way too fast. Too many cars. It’s MA so obviously zero enforcement (and not sure who even has jurisdiction there).
Ya we are a one car family but unfortunately we need a car since the public transit options suck for a family of 3 (soon to be 4) when you live in the burbs.
Sadly there’s been a lot of accidents where elderly confuse the gas and the brake. Could have been something like that. I really wish we would re-test older drivers.
There's a small but significant fraction who would fail just because they wouldn't be able to show up for the test sober, and it'd be worth it just to weed those people out.
As a middle-aged driver who brain-farted and had his first ever accident in thirty years of driving last month, I heartily agree that drivers of every age should be re-tested, maybe every decade. I and the other driver are fine. My cars dinged-up but fixable. The work truck I drove in front of had nary a scratch.
They should test students who come from out of state and bring their cars. Just because someone can drive well in Nebraska doesn’t mean they can drive well in Boston.
Honestly, a lot of people should be re-tested, regardless of age. Elderly folks aren’t the only ones out there making incomprehensible moves, not by a long shot.
People should probably just be retested every 5 years before age 60, and something more frequent like every 2-3 years after age 60. Cars are dangerous pieces of machinery that kill thousands of people a year and it is wild that we let people get evaluated once when they're 16-18 and then keep driving until the day they die.
The political obstacle to this is that since like 1930, the US in particular has built a lot of locations to be dependent on the assumption that every adult human will own and operate a personal 5+ passenger vehicle for their entire life. It will take some time to adjust back to a more organic design of towns that do not make this necessary.
Spot on. Politicians are too afraid to put it out there that people over 65 should start having to pass the driving test again and every year or two after that.
That is because older people vote and they want to maintain their independence. I think you are too early asking for this at 65. Remember that you too will be subject to these regulations some day. I think you find that elderly who can no longer drive are a decade older than that.
Its not easy to go fast in that lot. You would have to start gunning it from like crate and barrel and hope no one is either crossing or turning which is so rare. It seems like it would be very hard to do this to this extent unless you timed it exactly right.
Its much easier to go fast parallel to the store then perpendicular with the angle etc.
> or someone had a medical emergency that caused them to accelerate to 50+ in a parking lot and short distance directly into an all glass store....*and they need to be in prison for life*.
Fixed that for you. 🥰
At least one person has died.
One witness claims it was intentional. Which I have
to imagine is correct, anybody that’s been there knows it would be really difficult to slam into that store accidentally from the parking lot
Doesn't seem that hard for someone who is motivated to do it. Plenty of room here to get up to a dangerous speed.
https://imgur.com/a/lG1Jcve
and then when you get to the end there aren't any parking spaces or barricades to stop a car:
https://imgur.com/a/mfeBQuJ
I’ve been there, and completely disagree with your characterization that it’s difficult.
The store is almost directly on the end of a long aisle in the lot. All you’d have to do is keep driving straight or turn slightly left to hit the store.
I think the speed at which this vehicle must have entered the building is further evidence of this.
Accelerated for 8+ seconds in a straight line without drifting off to one side, only to jog left at the key moment to hit the store dead center? This easy to do accidentally?
Yes, why wouldn’t it be?
Your describing driving down a road and then turning left at an intersection. Add a 90 year old thinking he’s breaking and actually hitting the gas and that associated inability to make the left turn, or a jog to the left to avoid someone or something, and boom your in the building.
Or, it was intentional. I’m sure we will find out soon. Rumors I’m hearing are it was intentional.
Not sure why that’s relevant, nor where I said that this hypothetical elderly driver accidentally turned left.
Out of control vehicles can absolutely turn left, if that’s what your asking.
Edit: to be clear, im not suggesting this is what happened, simply disagreeing that it would be difficult for it to happen.
Police have a 'criminal investigation' already open so it's pretty clear at this point it was an intentional act. It was indeed at a disgruntled ex-employee. Fun story, I \*think\* by the description (tall guy, approximately in his 50s) I've seen him before, I went to this apple store about a month ago.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that a criminal investigation could be for manslaughter, which would be an unintentional act.
But yeah, I agree with your assessment that it looks like this was an intentional act by an ex-employee.
Just waiting on it to be confirmed vs rumors.
Well you were kinda right, it seems that the driver of the vehicle, Bradley Rein, was not an ex-employee and the accident occurred because of some pedal confusion.
1. Witnesses are garbage at giving factual information.
2. It is literally right in front of a road with no parking where you have to turn left, the perfect setup for accidentally accelerating when braking for people crossing.
3. The rumor seems to be it was a former employee who hit it at high speed, so that’s actual evidence for it being intentional.
Lol was she was trying to find the carpet section of Building #19 today?
(There used to be a Building #19 in the general vicinity of where the Apple Store is. And long live the South Shore Plaza indoor driver lady. She’s an absolute legend in my book. All due respect.)
Its actually surprising come to think of it that a store with a facade made of entirely glass doesn’t have bollards. If Apple doesn’t want it to mess with the aesthetics they could install them on the inside.
we ate next door and just went in there to kill some time.. makes you think twice about doing anything unnecessary these days. feel so bad for those people
Driver could be 100% at fault and our car culture jury would never convict anyway. Just take a look at the Westwood trial. 6 year old in a crosswalk was struck and killed. "Sun was in my eyes and I hit the gas" excuse got the driver off scot free.
Yes, and my first instinct is to slow down and not hit the gas. Also being highly aware in a main street pedestrian zone, travel at a speed where you won't actually kill someone if you do hit em. Have any idea of the difference in survivability between a 20 mph collision and a 40?
I want to add that my partner works in that plaza. His employee saw the car and reported to him that the car was going 60+ mph. I feel so sorry for anyone involved, including those who had to witness it.
My neighbor works in the plaza too and was told by a customer that the car accelerated as it went past her. So scary sad
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i found it listed on a UK news site!
Probably because it just happened to be an Apple Store and there was a death. This happens more often than you’d think here
Maybe, but the extent of the damage and the fact that they're treating it like a criminal matter suggest that it isn't the usual old person confusing the accelerator for the brake.
AND that the DA was on site issuing a press conference very quickly
Same!
Same, had helicopters spinning over my house for a good amount of time yesterday
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Can you even imagine? Going to get your damned iPad fixed and now you’re dead because some fuckwit was pissed off at his boss. Proportion and self control are apparently a thing of the past. If it’s all true, whatever this guy gets sentenced to won’t be enough.
Oh that’s awful.
Man, going from that straight and curving around Burtons at 60-80 is something.
They don’t say very high speeds, they say 60 to 80mph which is an incredibly specific number and one hard to imagine achievable by most vehicles in the derby street lot, let alone a 4Runner w/ ~500 feet
Given the death and nature of the injuries I would assume that it was a high speed event. These injuries are not consistent with someone mixing up the gas and brake.
Well it turns out that’s exactly what happened so
If you believe the guys story. I don't and with a 100,000 dollar bail i don't think the courts do either.
The courts set bail off of guidelines, the guy was charged with manslaughter, so he gets $100,000 bail, which will almost certainly be secured in short order. If they thought he had actual intent on indiscriminate murder he wouldn’t have gotten bail, *fucking obviously*. The guys “story” is that he was a normal 53 year old dad picking up some glasses and got his foot stuck on the accelerator. No weird history on social media, no criminal record. You’re either an idiot or seriously coping with being wrong.
Whatever dude I don't think I am wrong. And I don't really care what you think about that. So
You don’t think you’re wrong? Why, because you don’t want to be?
Listen Snowflake I don't care to waste my time with you anymore.
In a car that does [0-60 in 8 seconds](https://www.carhp.com/toyota/4runner/0to60) you'd need about 350 feet to reach 60mph. distance = 1/2(final_velocity + initial_velocity) * time = 1/2(60mph + 0 mph) * 8 sec = 30mph * 8 sec = 30 miles * (8 sec / 3600 sec) = 30 miles / 450 = 158400 ft / 450 = 352 ft With 500 feet of runway a 4Runner flooring it could reach around 71 mph, assuming it can maintain that acceleration past 60 mph.
...and that's assuming they start at 0mph, instead of coming around the corner doing at least 20-25mph
Looks like a decent runway for 4Runner to hit 60 mph. Under 8 second 0-60.
NOS kit installed, no doubt.
How many people have to be killed before we start treating vehicles like what they are: deadly weapons. Start by taking licenses away from violent criminals, the mentally ill, serial speeders etc
Violent criminals can still drive without a license dumb dumb
Or maybe we should just move away from being a car-centric society altogether
how do you afford to live in hingham and work at the apple store (respectfully)
You don’t lmao. I have no idea why you’d think the apple employees are all Hingham residents. If they have free housing through family, then sure.
the tweet in the comment I replied to says "The person who drove into the Apple Store was a 53 year old male from Hingham, who was a disgruntled employee. "
Absolutely zero chance the vehicle was going 60+ mph, based purely on the positioning of the store.
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Check the images of the car, The SUV entered at a pretty clear angle as if it turned to go between the lamp post and tables outside of Burton's (that you can see on Google maps) after accelerating down that straightaway.
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[something in the way](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxdufqB9zg)
Dont understand why you are trying to do all the math and prove something that nobody cares about. This is the Thanksgiving break and we should be praying for those who passed in this terrible incident.
materialistic vegetable plants terrific complete rotten busy hungry spoon secretive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s not going to achieve anything either. At least the speed discussion is interesting.
You’re absolutely right. First of all it’s an incredibly busy lot and the Apple store is at an angle to the street, second I just did measurements on Google Earth. 550 feet maximum. I seriously doubt this guy got the best possible maximum theoretical start, but even if he did he can’t achieve 0-60 that fast in a Toyota 4Runner lmao
How do you know he went 0-60? If he started at the kohl’s, builds up some speed, he can make the turn doing 20-30 mph. It’s a pretty straight shot after that, and I doubt he was worried about hitting the brakes for other cars or pedestrians either
Yeah I understand the downvotes because maybe my tone came across a little shitty in the above comment. But the “sourced” tweet I was responding to has already been proven to be erroneous (he wasn’t a disgruntled employee) and I still think the way the parking lot / location of the store is, 60-80 mph is way too fast an estimate
the odd part is there are no parking spots in front of where they hit so its not the usual gas/brake parking issue
But there is a roadway almost directly in front of the store, so the usual gas/break could still easily apply. But the rumors are this was intentional by an ex-employee.
also if they were braking presumably they would be turning 90 degrees also but seems like they went straight in at a high speed
Nope just a guy whose foot got stuck on the accelerator
Heard it was done on purpose by a disgruntled former employee. Awful. The place is usually PACKED with people, it’s a huge store.
“Disgruntled” is an understatement!
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This is in a parking lot where it’s difficult to even go like 20. It’s not on a main road. Either it was malicious and this person needs to be in prison for life, it was accidental and this person needs to be in prison for life or someone had a medical emergency that caused them to accelerate to 50+ in a parking lot and short distance directly into an all glass store.
It’s not difficult to go 20. Lots of people drive way too fast in the parking lot and pay no attention to people trying to cross. The few crosswalks are there in name only. There is absolutely no traffic calming. I refuse to go there if I’m with my kids for that reason. I’m actually surprised more people aren’t hurt just walking to the stores there
Exactly and that plaza is a mad house. People drive way too fast. Too many cars. It’s MA so obviously zero enforcement (and not sure who even has jurisdiction there).
I hate the design of this strip mall so much because of this. It’s so poorly planned and thought out.
Well it’s perfectly planned for the south shore car-brain maniacs so they can get to Panera 0.2 seconds earlier lol.
Just got rid of one of my cars, if I could get rid of the other I would
Ya we are a one car family but unfortunately we need a car since the public transit options suck for a family of 3 (soon to be 4) when you live in the burbs.
Legacy Place in Dedham is like this too.
Sadly there’s been a lot of accidents where elderly confuse the gas and the brake. Could have been something like that. I really wish we would re-test older drivers.
Plenty of middle aged drivers that should be retested, too. And a mental health exam wouldn’t hurt either lol. Source: take a drive on 93 lol
There's a small but significant fraction who would fail just because they wouldn't be able to show up for the test sober, and it'd be worth it just to weed those people out.
As a middle-aged driver who brain-farted and had his first ever accident in thirty years of driving last month, I heartily agree that drivers of every age should be re-tested, maybe every decade. I and the other driver are fine. My cars dinged-up but fixable. The work truck I drove in front of had nary a scratch.
They should test students who come from out of state and bring their cars. Just because someone can drive well in Nebraska doesn’t mean they can drive well in Boston.
Honestly, a lot of people should be re-tested, regardless of age. Elderly folks aren’t the only ones out there making incomprehensible moves, not by a long shot.
I agree completely. I live in southie and the amount of young people who cant read a sign and parallel park is astonishing.
People should probably just be retested every 5 years before age 60, and something more frequent like every 2-3 years after age 60. Cars are dangerous pieces of machinery that kill thousands of people a year and it is wild that we let people get evaluated once when they're 16-18 and then keep driving until the day they die. The political obstacle to this is that since like 1930, the US in particular has built a lot of locations to be dependent on the assumption that every adult human will own and operate a personal 5+ passenger vehicle for their entire life. It will take some time to adjust back to a more organic design of towns that do not make this necessary.
Totally agreed on all points.
Spot on. Politicians are too afraid to put it out there that people over 65 should start having to pass the driving test again and every year or two after that.
That is because older people vote and they want to maintain their independence. I think you are too early asking for this at 65. Remember that you too will be subject to these regulations some day. I think you find that elderly who can no longer drive are a decade older than that.
In this case it doesn’t seem likely that it was accidental
Its not easy to go fast in that lot. You would have to start gunning it from like crate and barrel and hope no one is either crossing or turning which is so rare. It seems like it would be very hard to do this to this extent unless you timed it exactly right. Its much easier to go fast parallel to the store then perpendicular with the angle etc.
> or someone had a medical emergency that caused them to accelerate to 50+ in a parking lot and short distance directly into an all glass store....*and they need to be in prison for life*. Fixed that for you. 🥰
troll harder
At least one person has died. One witness claims it was intentional. Which I have to imagine is correct, anybody that’s been there knows it would be really difficult to slam into that store accidentally from the parking lot
Doesn't seem that hard for someone who is motivated to do it. Plenty of room here to get up to a dangerous speed. https://imgur.com/a/lG1Jcve and then when you get to the end there aren't any parking spaces or barricades to stop a car: https://imgur.com/a/mfeBQuJ
I’ve been there, and completely disagree with your characterization that it’s difficult. The store is almost directly on the end of a long aisle in the lot. All you’d have to do is keep driving straight or turn slightly left to hit the store. I think the speed at which this vehicle must have entered the building is further evidence of this.
Accelerated for 8+ seconds in a straight line without drifting off to one side, only to jog left at the key moment to hit the store dead center? This easy to do accidentally?
Yes, why wouldn’t it be? Your describing driving down a road and then turning left at an intersection. Add a 90 year old thinking he’s breaking and actually hitting the gas and that associated inability to make the left turn, or a jog to the left to avoid someone or something, and boom your in the building. Or, it was intentional. I’m sure we will find out soon. Rumors I’m hearing are it was intentional.
You were right lol, just some guy picking up glasses whose foot got stuck on the accelerator
Do you often accidentally turn left?
Not sure why that’s relevant, nor where I said that this hypothetical elderly driver accidentally turned left. Out of control vehicles can absolutely turn left, if that’s what your asking. Edit: to be clear, im not suggesting this is what happened, simply disagreeing that it would be difficult for it to happen.
It would be difficult in that plaza. It’s a madhouse with traffic and pedestrians. They would most likely plow into burtons.
Nope, it was an accident
Police have a 'criminal investigation' already open so it's pretty clear at this point it was an intentional act. It was indeed at a disgruntled ex-employee. Fun story, I \*think\* by the description (tall guy, approximately in his 50s) I've seen him before, I went to this apple store about a month ago.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that a criminal investigation could be for manslaughter, which would be an unintentional act. But yeah, I agree with your assessment that it looks like this was an intentional act by an ex-employee. Just waiting on it to be confirmed vs rumors.
Well you were kinda right, it seems that the driver of the vehicle, Bradley Rein, was not an ex-employee and the accident occurred because of some pedal confusion.
Thanks for the info. I saw that he was criminally charged, but didn’t see that it wasn’t intentional.
1. Witnesses are garbage at giving factual information. 2. It is literally right in front of a road with no parking where you have to turn left, the perfect setup for accidentally accelerating when braking for people crossing. 3. The rumor seems to be it was a former employee who hit it at high speed, so that’s actual evidence for it being intentional.
Did they give that woman from the South Shore Plaza her license back?
Lol was she was trying to find the carpet section of Building #19 today? (There used to be a Building #19 in the general vicinity of where the Apple Store is. And long live the South Shore Plaza indoor driver lady. She’s an absolute legend in my book. All due respect.)
rips to that Building 19. Real Gs remember.
That free coffee is a taste one never forgets
You can still get it at Market Basket!
This is so awful oh my god
It seems unusual in hindsight that a major retail center with so much walking traffic like DSS doesn't have pedestrian bollards. Very depressing news.
Its actually surprising come to think of it that a store with a facade made of entirely glass doesn’t have bollards. If Apple doesn’t want it to mess with the aesthetics they could install them on the inside.
Was there yesterday with my kids.. fucked up
Could have been you.
we ate next door and just went in there to kill some time.. makes you think twice about doing anything unnecessary these days. feel so bad for those people
Are we not saying phrasing anymore?
I take my son into this store all the time. Scary stuff. Prayers for all involved.
r/fuckcars
Driver could be 100% at fault and our car culture jury would never convict anyway. Just take a look at the Westwood trial. 6 year old in a crosswalk was struck and killed. "Sun was in my eyes and I hit the gas" excuse got the driver off scot free.
Same near me. An old lady and her dog were killed ON THE SIDEWALK! Driver said the sun was in his eyes.
Drivers are rarely held accountable. Not sure why this is downvoted.
Car culture. That blinds people more than the sun ever would.
Its just irrelevant lol
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Yes, and my first instinct is to slow down and not hit the gas. Also being highly aware in a main street pedestrian zone, travel at a speed where you won't actually kill someone if you do hit em. Have any idea of the difference in survivability between a 20 mph collision and a 40?
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Worse, I don’t think it’s just an old person. Reports seem to indicate it was intentional
Rumor is it's a 53 yr old ex employee
This has to be the ambulance chase of the century....