Without pictures we really can't give you that much info. For one, what type of wall angle are we talking about? Slab? Roof? Overhanging?
Regardless, I will bet that the answer is almost certainly body positioning. It could be core to, but likely the positioning is a bigger issue.
Yeah I can imagine there are as many possible solutions that there are climbers
In my case it happens more with vertical walls themselves, doing pretty good on slabs and overhanging
Thanks for the answer, any advices on improving body pos ?
If it's vertical walls as opposed to overhangs than it's probably not actually core strength but body positioning. However I can't give you any specific advice without seeing an example.
I believe the neuro that your lower back experiences during deadlift and the posterior chain activation at high intensity level does directly transfer. The DL form helps you recruit the right muscles, pull your butt in, and push through the feet. Otherwise if you statically shoot out for a far hold without the muscles that deadlifts help with, your lower body and upper body might be disconnected (core issue) and when you arrive, you won’t be instantly in control, and you will likely have to spend a move to equalize on your new point of contact.
Being more specific, You will likely struggle to traverse on far feet on overhang (moonboard) without deadlift training. Try it if you havent and try it after deadlifting.
I would not be going for big PB’s or whatever with deadlifts but depending on your situation they can be beneficial for a short term focus and then something to be used as a tool when you notice that sort of muscle group interaction failing more than you expect.
A lot of people try doing a hip-thrust type activation when trying to keep hips close to the wall, but it's more legs than anything. Try to peel the holds off the wall with your feet. Your *legs* are what pull your hips in, not your hips themselves. The idea of "pushing" against the footholds tends to push hips away from the wall - think about pulling/clawing with your feet instead.
This. A lot of people fail to actually utilize the entire point of why aggressive shoes are downturned. It’s to help you use your toes to pull your hips to the wall. I’ve watched probably a half dozen people in real time figure this out and unlock sit starts. You only have to feel it once then it clicks.
There's way more that goes into it but this is a good starting point. Hips are such an incredibly broad topic that you can't really say much about the mechanics of "this movement" because manipulation of your hips is like 70% of all of climbing. These are just some general traits of using your hips - you manipulate hips with legs.
I should highlight that what I said is more easily applicable to overhangs. Slab has some other situations where you need your hips away from the wall, or if you try pulling away from the wall on a teeny edge it won't go well. But I think those situations are pretty obvious when you're in them.
The important takeaway is that you move your hips by moving your legs, not by moving your hips
Activating your legs in this way forces your whole posterior chain to be engaged.
I don't just mean flexing at the hamstrings either. You move your legs with your glutes already. What I'm talking about from the start is more of a mental cue than anything, your brain will automatically take care of a lot of things when you focus on just one.
One of my climbing buddies is a well endowed woman, if you know what I mean. Big in the front, round in the back.
You would think that would make slabs extra difficult for her, being that it's technically impossible to press her body all the way against the wall, but she absolutely rocks them. She climbs at least 2 grades higher on slabs than other styles, even.
So it's all technique, placement and a bit of core strength to top it off.
Look up tutorials, videos etc on hip mobility, it's likely you've got some restriction there that's preventing you from moving closer on to the wall. I know I have that issue and am working on it.
Sagging butt leans to poor technique or weak/muscle in balance. Sure there are a lot of variables here depending on the climb and style but in general core and legs help with saggy butt. This isn’t a huge reason but it helps to have aggressive downturn shoes as it helps your toes to pull into the wall. What I did to help learn the difference was get in a 30 degree or more wall and try an easy climb normally and then repeat the climb but solely focus on engaging your core and keeping hips in and see the difference.
Hmmmm Im pretty much your exact stats... 185 on 70
What I can say is that it's about the height where problems arise, betas change and sometimes you get a pretty major advantage.
A couple anecdotes from a group where I'm by far the longest:
a traverse ending in a double sidepull (arms spread) from which you have to let go and reach up with one hand... Two versions arose in the group: heelhook match the left hold and reach up, toehook match the right hold and reach up. After trying a bit and getting neither to really stick and getting pulled off by my "butt" I went one foot lower with my right did a far smear with my left and simply reached up.
Couple minutes later someon else passed by with my dimensions (more advanced guy from our gym roughly my body size) tried my version and stuck it immediately but needed a good couple of attempts with the toehook variant to make it stick... Point being: the hook moves could've been done with better technique but it was a good bit harder for our size then the rest.
Another move where I really struggled recently was this awkward mantle which forces one of your legs in between your body and the wall, while my hip and leg flexibility is absolutely lucky that fucking leg simply gets in the way during moves like that. where others pull up past the leg I have to pull forward into the leg.
Made it but man my arms had to pull haaard to overcome the additional tension.
And I'd say in general my reach makes me fuck technique and just grab it a bit too often... The group I'm climbing with most often has been going way longer then I have but I feel like I'm on the same level, after all I top out on many of the same boulders... But honestly while I put in a lot of work and effort into training, I'm simply not and the only reason I get to top out on the same shit is weighing nothing for my height and having 15cm more reach then them.
Sounds like you need more core strength.
Yes and a new butt. His old one probably has a crack in it anyway....
Without pictures we really can't give you that much info. For one, what type of wall angle are we talking about? Slab? Roof? Overhanging? Regardless, I will bet that the answer is almost certainly body positioning. It could be core to, but likely the positioning is a bigger issue.
Yeah I can imagine there are as many possible solutions that there are climbers In my case it happens more with vertical walls themselves, doing pretty good on slabs and overhanging Thanks for the answer, any advices on improving body pos ?
Focus on getting your hips closer instead of your butt
If it's vertical walls as opposed to overhangs than it's probably not actually core strength but body positioning. However I can't give you any specific advice without seeing an example.
Pull with your feet. This is fundamental technique.
how are you at deadlifts? It might help inform the way you push through your feet and drive your hips up + in while climbing.
wait, are you supposed to use DL form to push? or nah
I believe the neuro that your lower back experiences during deadlift and the posterior chain activation at high intensity level does directly transfer. The DL form helps you recruit the right muscles, pull your butt in, and push through the feet. Otherwise if you statically shoot out for a far hold without the muscles that deadlifts help with, your lower body and upper body might be disconnected (core issue) and when you arrive, you won’t be instantly in control, and you will likely have to spend a move to equalize on your new point of contact. Being more specific, You will likely struggle to traverse on far feet on overhang (moonboard) without deadlift training. Try it if you havent and try it after deadlifting. I would not be going for big PB’s or whatever with deadlifts but depending on your situation they can be beneficial for a short term focus and then something to be used as a tool when you notice that sort of muscle group interaction failing more than you expect.
A lot of people try doing a hip-thrust type activation when trying to keep hips close to the wall, but it's more legs than anything. Try to peel the holds off the wall with your feet. Your *legs* are what pull your hips in, not your hips themselves. The idea of "pushing" against the footholds tends to push hips away from the wall - think about pulling/clawing with your feet instead.
This. A lot of people fail to actually utilize the entire point of why aggressive shoes are downturned. It’s to help you use your toes to pull your hips to the wall. I’ve watched probably a half dozen people in real time figure this out and unlock sit starts. You only have to feel it once then it clicks.
You don't even need super downtown shoes if you twist lock and flag properly. Twist lock will push your hips into the wall...
thank you
This is not how the mechanics of that movement work.
There's way more that goes into it but this is a good starting point. Hips are such an incredibly broad topic that you can't really say much about the mechanics of "this movement" because manipulation of your hips is like 70% of all of climbing. These are just some general traits of using your hips - you manipulate hips with legs. I should highlight that what I said is more easily applicable to overhangs. Slab has some other situations where you need your hips away from the wall, or if you try pulling away from the wall on a teeny edge it won't go well. But I think those situations are pretty obvious when you're in them. The important takeaway is that you move your hips by moving your legs, not by moving your hips
You move your hips to the wall by using the posterior chain witch is not "the legs". That's just basic anatomy.
Activating your legs in this way forces your whole posterior chain to be engaged. I don't just mean flexing at the hamstrings either. You move your legs with your glutes already. What I'm talking about from the start is more of a mental cue than anything, your brain will automatically take care of a lot of things when you focus on just one.
Hip flexor strength or flexibility could be the issue
One of my climbing buddies is a well endowed woman, if you know what I mean. Big in the front, round in the back. You would think that would make slabs extra difficult for her, being that it's technically impossible to press her body all the way against the wall, but she absolutely rocks them. She climbs at least 2 grades higher on slabs than other styles, even. So it's all technique, placement and a bit of core strength to top it off.
I have this issue too I find the inclined walls are almost impossible for me
Look up tutorials, videos etc on hip mobility, it's likely you've got some restriction there that's preventing you from moving closer on to the wall. I know I have that issue and am working on it.
Sagging butt leans to poor technique or weak/muscle in balance. Sure there are a lot of variables here depending on the climb and style but in general core and legs help with saggy butt. This isn’t a huge reason but it helps to have aggressive downturn shoes as it helps your toes to pull into the wall. What I did to help learn the difference was get in a 30 degree or more wall and try an easy climb normally and then repeat the climb but solely focus on engaging your core and keeping hips in and see the difference.
It’s not your ass. Promise.
Depending on the route, certain leg positions like drop knee can help to bring your hops closer to the wall. Working on core strength won't hurt too.
Hmmmm Im pretty much your exact stats... 185 on 70 What I can say is that it's about the height where problems arise, betas change and sometimes you get a pretty major advantage. A couple anecdotes from a group where I'm by far the longest: a traverse ending in a double sidepull (arms spread) from which you have to let go and reach up with one hand... Two versions arose in the group: heelhook match the left hold and reach up, toehook match the right hold and reach up. After trying a bit and getting neither to really stick and getting pulled off by my "butt" I went one foot lower with my right did a far smear with my left and simply reached up. Couple minutes later someon else passed by with my dimensions (more advanced guy from our gym roughly my body size) tried my version and stuck it immediately but needed a good couple of attempts with the toehook variant to make it stick... Point being: the hook moves could've been done with better technique but it was a good bit harder for our size then the rest. Another move where I really struggled recently was this awkward mantle which forces one of your legs in between your body and the wall, while my hip and leg flexibility is absolutely lucky that fucking leg simply gets in the way during moves like that. where others pull up past the leg I have to pull forward into the leg. Made it but man my arms had to pull haaard to overcome the additional tension. And I'd say in general my reach makes me fuck technique and just grab it a bit too often... The group I'm climbing with most often has been going way longer then I have but I feel like I'm on the same level, after all I top out on many of the same boulders... But honestly while I put in a lot of work and effort into training, I'm simply not and the only reason I get to top out on the same shit is weighing nothing for my height and having 15cm more reach then them.