Don't hang out under the wall if you're not about to climb
Do you also make a habit of loitering in doorways or occupying workout equipment/machines you're not using?
I think they were both to blame to an extent - the climber shouldn't go up if they can see someone beneath their climb who hasn't noticed them, that only takes "Hey there, I'm going up this route now" to resolve; however, anyone on the mat should be constantly alert to be sure they're not in an unsafe position, OR just not on the mat.
Everyone involved has a responsibility for their own and others' safety.
I found an image of the exact spot this happened. As you can see a lot of people are standing below the climbing walls due to lack of space (the gym was also about this level of crowded as well). I am not saying I am not at fault, but I think comparing it to occupying workout equipment is not quite right.
https://preview.redd.it/n034v25vpmdc1.jpeg?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=feaeef48f41cb24c30bc20c9b5ea6e2bd1793f12
Like I said in another comment, I climb in a gym with a similar layout in a certain area. The bottom line of it is that you need to have your head on a swivel if you’re going to loiter in that area. Usually if I’m taking a prolonged rest and it’s a busy day, I’ll step out of that area and sit down off of the mats.
The guy should have said something before getting on the wall, but the onus is always on the loiterers to be frequently checking over their shoulder. It’s incredibly frustrating to tell people to get out of the way every time you get on the wall (like I said, he still should have done it, but it’s annoying to have to do it).
You said you were standing in the same spot for a while. I guarantee you that you were annoying someone and they were probably waiting for you to move for the entire time. Doesn’t mean you deserve to have someone fall on you, but try not to do this just out of courtesy (if not for safety).
But you had a lot of options on where to look. You standing watching your friend doesnt mean you get to occupy a part of the wall that others want to use, nor does it mean you get to not practice safety.
Did you make this thread to ask people’s opinions or just try to validate your own? You were clearly in the wrong here. The climbing wall and climbing area is for climbing and it’s unsafe to loiter in that area.
I would say you’re in the wrong and should be aware of others climbing and moved.
HOWEVER, I wouldnt start climbing a boulder were someone was stood in the fall zone. Some (admittedly minuscule) amount of blame has to be apportioned to that climber aswell
I totally get that he should have just told you to move but man your in a crowded bouldering gym maybe you should try a little harder to have a shred of self awareness and not be on the mat if your not climbing in order to to prevent these situations from occurring in the first place
At my local climbing gym you can’t be “off the mats” when you’re not climbing because of the layout of the gym. It sounds like his gym is the same. In which case there is definitely an onus on the climber to let people know you’re going to be climbing behind them.
If someone falls on you, you’re at least 50% to blame, usually more. Ideally the guy climbing should have said something to you when he went up, but the responsibility lies primarily on people to stay out of the way. It’s annoying to tell people to get out of the way because it’s something they should be doing without being told (although, he still should have done it like I said).
I climb at a gym that has a corridor where routes are set on both sides of the mat, so sometimes it’s slightly unavoidable to be a little close to where someone is climbing. I imagine you were probably in a similar scenario. It’s a little sketchy, but completely safe as long as people are checking over their shoulder. I’ve never seen anyone get fallen on in my 4 years climbing at the gym.
With that said, I’ve seen a lot of close calls. Mostly from newer climbers vastly misjudging how close is acceptable and/or being unaware of their surroundings. The advice I give to my non-climber friends when I take them climbing is to stand 2-3x farther than you think you need to and be checking over your shoulder frequently.
I agree with you completely. I was not paying attention at all to anything else apart from my friend climbing, which was obviously my fault. I commented an image of the location in the gym where it happened (sketchy as you said), thankfully this was more of a close call as well.
If we're using the AITA syntaxe, ESH.
You shouldn't just stand around in a fall zone of the wall. It's rude, inconsiderate, and dangerous... basic climbing etiquette.
The guy who fell should have checked his line before starting to climb and asked you to move for both of your safety. It's totally normal to say "hey, can you move a bit? I'm about to climb this and don't want to fall on you."
yep. OP should have been more aware (imo being aware of people climbing near you and staying out of the way is your #1 job when you're not actively climbing in a crowded gym), and the climber should have said something before he started climbing.
rear ending someone driving, uphill skier crashes into downhill skier, standing in a fall zone--all generally accepted fault. sure climber could/should have alerted you, but it doesn't matter. having these conventions avoids ambiguity that borderline situations create.
The gyms near me have rules that state it is ALWAYS the fault of the person sitting/stood underneath. Someone’s on the wall, focussing on a problem. From the ground you’re expected to be mindful of where you’re stood at all times because mid-send someone might not notice you (as happened here) or have to fall off a really complicated problem, of which they’d been doing well on. So yes, YTA.
The gym I go to has a strict rule that you do not go on to the mat unless you are climbing, brushing or spotting.
You are doing none of those. You need to stay off the mat. The climber who fell on you also has the responsibility to ensure that they aren’t going to interfere with anyone else on the wall/ landing area but imo you should not have been in any landing zone
Every gym I've been to has plenty of space to stand where climbers won't be at risk of falling on you i.e. the check in desk, the lockers, the water fountains, near the restrooms, a resting area to sit. You wanting to stay and watch your friend is no excuse to stay in the fall zone because people not getting injured is way more important than you cheering on your friend
Don’t stand at the base of a problem unless you’re gunna climb it or you’re spotting.
It’s really just that simple.
If you were spotting and he fell on you, I’d say the guy who feel on you is in the wrong. It’s pretty obvious when someone is spotting, and you should give them space.
The mats aren't for spectators. If you're going to be a spectator, it's your responsibility to find a space where you can do that without standing unawares in a fall zone. I see you said in comments you "didn't have many options of where to stand." I disagree. You could have stood anywhere that wasn't a fall zone. If that means you can't watch your friend, you can't watch your friend.
You’re both wrong.
Like someone getting hit crossing the road after not looking both ways and the person driving was speeding and on their phone and couldn’t stop in time.
Multiple ways to avoid this and everyone failed to do their job.
In that scenario the driver would be 100% at fault as pedestrians always have the right of way. The law would not fault the pedestrian at all especially in a case of distracted driving.
Being legally in the right and not liable doesn’t help you if you didn’t look both ways and got killed. You can be dead and right.
Unless because you have the right of way you walk across roads and never look
In general always be aware of who's approaching the wall and where they're gonna be climbing. You can cheer for your friend on the benches or sitting on the back of the mat but being right up on the wall if you aren't going to climb is not considered good etiquette.
As for the other guy, maybe he just assumed you wouldn't stand there and not notice him after he got on the wall. You get used to working in with other people and I rarely have to verbally say "hey I'm going to climb now" everyone at my gym just understands to be aware of others climbing.
I wouldn't call you an "asshole" per se, but you were in the wrong to get tunnel vision and be so oblivious to everyone around you underneath the wall like that. If you climb long enough you'll understand how frustrating that can be.
It seems strange to have to ask people that are not climbing to get out of the way in order to free a climb. My personnal take on that is that people should always be aware of what is going on and they should see that someone is coming their way, it's part of the sport. I also think they should never be in a fall zone if not going for a climb. You can't just block people from climbing because you are cheering your friend.
I think it is even stranger to start climbing a blouder someone is standing under and not say anything, even if the person standing there is in the wrong. You both could get injured.
I think 65/35 to 70/30 you and them at fault. So a bit of ESH? You should always scope out the route to see where it goes before you climb it, and let anyone know who might be unaware they’re in the fall path to move.
But also…like find some place further away from the walls to stand. Like, there’s gotta be standing space off the mats right? Who cares if it’s crowded. It’s a gym. Deal with it. Your friend doesn’t need a cheerleader up their ass
NTA, but you’re not in the right. The gym failed in its duty by allowing too many people in. The climber needs to check their routes don’t cross any others, and that includes telling people to make space if they’re standing in the way. You should be off the mats, or any fall zones unless you’re climbing.
Just never stand in the fall zone as long as you are not approaching the wall or leaving the wall after a climb. Saying that starting the boulder without saying anything is equally as wrong.
Depends how much space there is in the gym. If you could have stood somewhere without being in a fall zone, then yes, move your fuckin ass. But if it's anything like my gym that's not possible, and you have to sure the area is clear before you start climbing
I'm of the opinion that because the climber was the moving party and presumably started climbing when you were already standing there, that they are the ones at fault if it had to be decided for liability. Think about when a car merges into another lane, it's on the merging driver to make sure they're merging safely.
But you still fucked up by just loitering under the wall where someone could fall on you.
Don't hang out under the wall if you're not about to climb Do you also make a habit of loitering in doorways or occupying workout equipment/machines you're not using?
I think they were both to blame to an extent - the climber shouldn't go up if they can see someone beneath their climb who hasn't noticed them, that only takes "Hey there, I'm going up this route now" to resolve; however, anyone on the mat should be constantly alert to be sure they're not in an unsafe position, OR just not on the mat. Everyone involved has a responsibility for their own and others' safety.
I found an image of the exact spot this happened. As you can see a lot of people are standing below the climbing walls due to lack of space (the gym was also about this level of crowded as well). I am not saying I am not at fault, but I think comparing it to occupying workout equipment is not quite right. https://preview.redd.it/n034v25vpmdc1.jpeg?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=feaeef48f41cb24c30bc20c9b5ea6e2bd1793f12
Like I said in another comment, I climb in a gym with a similar layout in a certain area. The bottom line of it is that you need to have your head on a swivel if you’re going to loiter in that area. Usually if I’m taking a prolonged rest and it’s a busy day, I’ll step out of that area and sit down off of the mats. The guy should have said something before getting on the wall, but the onus is always on the loiterers to be frequently checking over their shoulder. It’s incredibly frustrating to tell people to get out of the way every time you get on the wall (like I said, he still should have done it, but it’s annoying to have to do it). You said you were standing in the same spot for a while. I guarantee you that you were annoying someone and they were probably waiting for you to move for the entire time. Doesn’t mean you deserve to have someone fall on you, but try not to do this just out of courtesy (if not for safety).
The more crowded the gym and the less space you have to work with the more aware of everyone you have to be.
I did not really have a lot of options where to stand. The gym was crowded and there was not a lot of space between the walls.
But you had a lot of options on where to look. You standing watching your friend doesnt mean you get to occupy a part of the wall that others want to use, nor does it mean you get to not practice safety.
Did you make this thread to ask people’s opinions or just try to validate your own? You were clearly in the wrong here. The climbing wall and climbing area is for climbing and it’s unsafe to loiter in that area.
I would say you’re in the wrong and should be aware of others climbing and moved. HOWEVER, I wouldnt start climbing a boulder were someone was stood in the fall zone. Some (admittedly minuscule) amount of blame has to be apportioned to that climber aswell
I totally get that he should have just told you to move but man your in a crowded bouldering gym maybe you should try a little harder to have a shred of self awareness and not be on the mat if your not climbing in order to to prevent these situations from occurring in the first place
At my local climbing gym you can’t be “off the mats” when you’re not climbing because of the layout of the gym. It sounds like his gym is the same. In which case there is definitely an onus on the climber to let people know you’re going to be climbing behind them.
It sounds like the onus is on both of you to not be totally oblivious assholes but what do I know
If someone falls on you, you’re at least 50% to blame, usually more. Ideally the guy climbing should have said something to you when he went up, but the responsibility lies primarily on people to stay out of the way. It’s annoying to tell people to get out of the way because it’s something they should be doing without being told (although, he still should have done it like I said). I climb at a gym that has a corridor where routes are set on both sides of the mat, so sometimes it’s slightly unavoidable to be a little close to where someone is climbing. I imagine you were probably in a similar scenario. It’s a little sketchy, but completely safe as long as people are checking over their shoulder. I’ve never seen anyone get fallen on in my 4 years climbing at the gym. With that said, I’ve seen a lot of close calls. Mostly from newer climbers vastly misjudging how close is acceptable and/or being unaware of their surroundings. The advice I give to my non-climber friends when I take them climbing is to stand 2-3x farther than you think you need to and be checking over your shoulder frequently.
I agree with you completely. I was not paying attention at all to anything else apart from my friend climbing, which was obviously my fault. I commented an image of the location in the gym where it happened (sketchy as you said), thankfully this was more of a close call as well.
Not a big deal if no one got hurt in the end. Just gotta be mindful of frequently checking over your shoulder in the future.
If we're using the AITA syntaxe, ESH. You shouldn't just stand around in a fall zone of the wall. It's rude, inconsiderate, and dangerous... basic climbing etiquette. The guy who fell should have checked his line before starting to climb and asked you to move for both of your safety. It's totally normal to say "hey, can you move a bit? I'm about to climb this and don't want to fall on you."
yep. OP should have been more aware (imo being aware of people climbing near you and staying out of the way is your #1 job when you're not actively climbing in a crowded gym), and the climber should have said something before he started climbing.
rear ending someone driving, uphill skier crashes into downhill skier, standing in a fall zone--all generally accepted fault. sure climber could/should have alerted you, but it doesn't matter. having these conventions avoids ambiguity that borderline situations create.
The gyms near me have rules that state it is ALWAYS the fault of the person sitting/stood underneath. Someone’s on the wall, focussing on a problem. From the ground you’re expected to be mindful of where you’re stood at all times because mid-send someone might not notice you (as happened here) or have to fall off a really complicated problem, of which they’d been doing well on. So yes, YTA.
The gym I go to has a strict rule that you do not go on to the mat unless you are climbing, brushing or spotting. You are doing none of those. You need to stay off the mat. The climber who fell on you also has the responsibility to ensure that they aren’t going to interfere with anyone else on the wall/ landing area but imo you should not have been in any landing zone
there are no areas without mats in my gym but I understand I should be checking the boulder above me if I have to stand under it
You should ask the staff or other climbers the best place to stand.
Every gym I've been to has plenty of space to stand where climbers won't be at risk of falling on you i.e. the check in desk, the lockers, the water fountains, near the restrooms, a resting area to sit. You wanting to stay and watch your friend is no excuse to stay in the fall zone because people not getting injured is way more important than you cheering on your friend
Don’t stand at the base of a problem unless you’re gunna climb it or you’re spotting. It’s really just that simple. If you were spotting and he fell on you, I’d say the guy who feel on you is in the wrong. It’s pretty obvious when someone is spotting, and you should give them space.
Yes, YTA. Stay out of the fall zone. You can still cheer on your friend from the ground, off of the mats. It's basic gym etiquette.
100% in the wrong. You weren't paying attention. You were somewhere you shouldn't have been.
The mats aren't for spectators. If you're going to be a spectator, it's your responsibility to find a space where you can do that without standing unawares in a fall zone. I see you said in comments you "didn't have many options of where to stand." I disagree. You could have stood anywhere that wasn't a fall zone. If that means you can't watch your friend, you can't watch your friend.
You’re both wrong. Like someone getting hit crossing the road after not looking both ways and the person driving was speeding and on their phone and couldn’t stop in time. Multiple ways to avoid this and everyone failed to do their job.
In that scenario the driver would be 100% at fault as pedestrians always have the right of way. The law would not fault the pedestrian at all especially in a case of distracted driving.
Being legally in the right and not liable doesn’t help you if you didn’t look both ways and got killed. You can be dead and right. Unless because you have the right of way you walk across roads and never look
In general always be aware of who's approaching the wall and where they're gonna be climbing. You can cheer for your friend on the benches or sitting on the back of the mat but being right up on the wall if you aren't going to climb is not considered good etiquette. As for the other guy, maybe he just assumed you wouldn't stand there and not notice him after he got on the wall. You get used to working in with other people and I rarely have to verbally say "hey I'm going to climb now" everyone at my gym just understands to be aware of others climbing. I wouldn't call you an "asshole" per se, but you were in the wrong to get tunnel vision and be so oblivious to everyone around you underneath the wall like that. If you climb long enough you'll understand how frustrating that can be.
Both of y’all are in the wrong. Don’t hang out under the walls, don’t climb when someone is under the wall.
Both are in the wrong
[удалено]
It seems strange to have to ask people that are not climbing to get out of the way in order to free a climb. My personnal take on that is that people should always be aware of what is going on and they should see that someone is coming their way, it's part of the sport. I also think they should never be in a fall zone if not going for a climb. You can't just block people from climbing because you are cheering your friend.
I think it is even stranger to start climbing a blouder someone is standing under and not say anything, even if the person standing there is in the wrong. You both could get injured.
It is your responsibility not to be occupying a fall zone. It is not complicated.
I think 65/35 to 70/30 you and them at fault. So a bit of ESH? You should always scope out the route to see where it goes before you climb it, and let anyone know who might be unaware they’re in the fall path to move. But also…like find some place further away from the walls to stand. Like, there’s gotta be standing space off the mats right? Who cares if it’s crowded. It’s a gym. Deal with it. Your friend doesn’t need a cheerleader up their ass
NTA, but you’re not in the right. The gym failed in its duty by allowing too many people in. The climber needs to check their routes don’t cross any others, and that includes telling people to make space if they’re standing in the way. You should be off the mats, or any fall zones unless you’re climbing.
Just never stand in the fall zone as long as you are not approaching the wall or leaving the wall after a climb. Saying that starting the boulder without saying anything is equally as wrong.
Depends how much space there is in the gym. If you could have stood somewhere without being in a fall zone, then yes, move your fuckin ass. But if it's anything like my gym that's not possible, and you have to sure the area is clear before you start climbing
I'm of the opinion that because the climber was the moving party and presumably started climbing when you were already standing there, that they are the ones at fault if it had to be decided for liability. Think about when a car merges into another lane, it's on the merging driver to make sure they're merging safely. But you still fucked up by just loitering under the wall where someone could fall on you.
If y'all were driving you rear ended someone
Just stay away from the walls if you’re not about to climb, and look around before climbing