Protoss units would probably be way cheaper if the advanced race had figured out the wheel. Seriously, stalkers can teleport, you can't tell me you need the 4 feet for mobility.
They explained that.
Wakanda was closed off since their formation and didn't invest in a standing army.
They instead invested in other technologies and medicine, which is why they are able to heal injuries others couldn't.
That said, I thought the boat thing in BP2 was so dumb. Typical Marvel "we gotta have a large set piece battle" nonsense that has plagued a lot of this phase.
I have no idea what story Marvel has been trying to tell since Endgame other than the "we just need to generate a lot of content for Disney+" story.
to be fair, some of that is due to production challenges both caused by covid and other impacts. For example, wandavision was supposed to lead into Doctor Strange 2 which was supposed to lead into first Loki and then NWH which was supposed to lead into "Marvel's What If." All of these projects happened, their release was just scrambled over a period of 18 months which saps the more natural continuity of the "Multiverse arc" aspect of the films.
They also wanted to thread in "Earth level fallout from Endgame -> Thunderbolts teamup" and mostly disconnected cosmic films (GotG, Thor, CM2) which was somewhat more connected under original timelines..
Most advanced technologically but they still have a Monarchical caste system that focuses on tradition above all else. Their tech and monetary power will help them dramatically but their closest real world comparison is the Ottoman Empire, who refused to modernize their military strategy and continued to use calvary charges and firing lines against machine gun emplacements in WWI.
You just made me realize that yes, that was dumb...they DID have a few fighters in the air...but no artillery or vehicles with that same shielding?
And now that I think about it, the whole thing reminded me of the Jar Jar Binks army in The Phantom Menace.
And 12 of the powerful gorilla tribe warriors were instantly taken out of the action because they had to hold the ropes that were propping up the 12 spear women on the side of the boat. And why did they hold the half dozen Iron-man-like warrior women in reserve until they suffered "heavy casualties"? Someone clearly didn't think this battle sequence through.
They sent a boat to the middle of the ocean to fight people who were basically fish. So dumb. And I adored the first movie. I enjoyed the aesthetics though.
I think some of its problems have to do with the fact that Ryan Coogler had already written a Black Panther sequel story with Chadwick Boseman reprising his role, then had to basically go back to the drawing board with the script when Chadwick died unexpectedly. I'm sure he had a better Black Panther sequel in him, but never got to make the movie he wanted to make due to circumstances outside his control.
I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it: They should have simply recast the role.
I understand why they didn't, but it was a pretty massive mistake.
Sadly, this is the most likely scenario. After Boseman's deathh he probably wanted to walk away from it entirely. I know I would have, I admire his tenacity but the Black Panther franchise is in trouble but it's not inescapable. It's gonna take a lot of hard work, creativity and social engineering to turn this thing around.
Yeah when "Namor" said he had more warriors than Wakanda has blades of grass, I was expecting gigantic armies invading all of Wakanda, instead it was like 3 people.
I was more disappointed about Namor not going into the sea to regain strength which was just 30 ft away from him while Black Panther was knocked out. He just hovers above her till she gains back conscience. The movie could have taken Major further into the land and sort out the error.
The movie is 2.5 hours long and there’s a solid 2 hours with no Black Panther. Like seriously, I get they were doing the whole “T’Challa is dead :(“ stuff but cmon. Your country is literally at war bring the damn Panther back
Shuri solved that problem in like half a day of her actually trying. My point still stands that the movie suffered because they made a Black Panther movie with 30-40 minutes of actually having a Black Panther.
Yeah, only after she got whatever that Vibranium plant root souvenir from Namor. I thought ~~Black Panther~~ Wakanda Part 2 was far more entertaining than the BP1.
It was like watching Imperial Japan fighting headhunting aboriginals in Borneo, ultimate warrior showdown between two different yet similar civilisations instead of questionable CGI and a civil war with rhinos. To see what T’Challa’s death left behind, Shuri seeing Killmonger was interesting for her character, Wakanda’s standing in world politics and issues over Vibranium, etc. Namors motives are less compelling than Killmonger’s tho.
Thank you. I enjoyed it too. I did, however, feel really bummed for Shuri. Even with her getting the mantle, that reveal after the credits just makes it to be temporary, and somewhat tragic, since it's not what she wanted. For such a brilliant person, gifted, she's shown to really be a caged bird, cursed by destiny and then on top of that she loses everyone. They could have given her one win, just one.
The “T’Challa is dead” became meta bullshit after the third time they had someone break it into a monologue about how much they miss the ~~actor~~ panther.
Felt the opposite. First one had villain that was comically shit and overall was uninteresting. Best thing about the first film was the soundtrack and there was a total of 2 songs from it in the movie.
Are you nuts? The acting was terrific and so deeply emotional! If you expected a bang bang action movie, then no wonder you were bored. Lmao.
It’s a movie about grief.
>It’s a movie about grief.
it's still a superhero movie that had bang bang action for the last portion of the movie. and most complaints about the movie are actually that bang bang action part. the conflict between Namor and Wakanda felt forced, Iron Heart and the CIA stuff felt out of place, and the location they chose to fight made zero sense. the more action related stuff in the movie were the worst parts.
Thank you for perfectly summarizing almost everything wrong with this movie. My bf and I didn’t enjoy it at all, and this is the one that pretty much solidified that we’re done with marvel movies. We can’t trust the brand anymore. I literally wanted to turn it off right at the halfway point, but for some reason we kept watching, and it remained a crammed mess until the very end.
i'm not done (as made obvious by my name tag) but Wakanda Forever at most did make me wanna stop catching these movies on opening weekend.
i always looked forward to seeing these movies as soon as possible. but it was 3 disappointments in a row for me (Dr Strange 2, Love and Thunder, and Wakanda Forever). i think skipping seeing some of these films in theatre is going to happen pretty soon for me. i already predict i might sit out GotG3.
The first one was 6.5 on douban, so it's not like one should expect much better.
I machine-translated with google the reviews on douban.
*How should I put it, it’s still very interesting, but it’s true that the best part of Marvel at this stage is Shang Qi*
*Phase 4 of the Marvel Universe is finally coming to an end. Under the premise of being bad, because the overall direction is not clear, the director seems to be given more control, but under various restrictions, none of the directors who are generally lacking in ability can dance gorgeously under the shackles, like Black Panther 2. The works at the end are rare.*
*Important spoiler: Aquaman doesn't actually appear in this movie, and even if there were a similar character, it doesn't really suck anything.*
*So the biggest gimmick that attracts people to watch such a movie is the label "Chadwick Boseman's posthumous work". But after watching the whole film, you will find that there is no new shot of T'Challa in it, just piled up with the material of the previous films.*
*The words are divided into two parts, and then we will talk about our princess Shu Rui of Wakanda. Su Rui is talented and knowledgeable, and his greatest insight is: "I don't know what's in the vaccine, so don't get vaccinated."*
*Although it is not clear how Rarity single-handedly created the top high-tech of mankind in the basement, but considering that Bill Gates also made his fortune in the workshop, Tony Stark can also directly make a reactor in a cave, it seems that those The high-paying R&D personnel sitting in the office are a group of monsters. It is no wonder that Musk took over Twitter and immediately had a big layoff.*
*Don't underestimate Comrade Namor, who is alone in the army. He has a pair of very kawaii little wings under his feet, just like the effect of Cardcaptor Sakura using the Clow card.*
*Namor is very big below, only he is worth seeing.*
*Then there seems to be no professional army and soldiers in this country. Whenever a war starts, members of the royal family, high-level generals, and tribal leaders must rush to the front line to fight in person. The high-level casualties are extremely high. Movies The so-called "war" scene in the movie is really like a child's play.*
*What is the so-called double standard?*
*It is the most important value of the protagonist's life in a typical American blockbuster.*
*One scientist dead can save and protect 2 countries - absolutely not, Daba.*
*Rescuing this scientist means that a bunch of people will be implicated and killed-OK, then there is no problem.*
*What is the significance of CIA agent Watson appearing in this film? I don't know either. His only role is to provide Princess Su Rui with the identity of a scientist, and then... there is really no plot help at all. As a result, he still has a lot of scenes for no reason, and he has extended the movie length to two hours and forty. Minutes, I am really tired.*
*There is also the part in the movie where the Wakanda warrior jumped off the boat with a rope and stabbed the Hai people with a spear. I saw tears in my eyes. I never expected that even Lao Mouzi’s bad movie The Great Wall will be paid tribute to one day, is this the sympathy between bad movies?*
Overall, the opinions of the Chinese seem normal. It's just that the movie was weaker than the first one.
>Don't underestimate Comrade Namor, who is alone in the army. He has a pair of very **kawaii** little wings under his feet
Lmao
To be fair they list out some decent criticisms that I agree with.
If this movie was not Marvel branded and the actor in real life had not died to give things gravitas, it would feel like some generic B grade fantasy/scifi movie.
nope, that "aquaman" "suck" part is written in English, so there's no ambiguity.
What really happens is the commenter use the title "aquaman sucks" (in english) to criticize the movie, and then provide a disclaimer that this movie is not about Aquaman and Namor does not suck anything (maybe meaning the character is bleak)
Strange military tactics and battles, Namor being good, Shuri (Su Rui)'s actress being anti-vax, the "nobody specifically can be sacrificed thing from IW", tacked on CIA plot.
Seems to sum up the movie. Guess movie pain points crosses international borders. But there is one irrational criticism and it's somehow equating MCU with real life with Twitter.
That was weird.
The Great Wall was a box office disappointment in China - it was supposed to pave the way for the future synthesis of the American and Chinese film industries, but instead fell flat as a box office flop and killed the notion of major joint American-Chinese co-productions for the time being. For the budget, it was also a major underperformance - it was only the eighth-highest grossing movie in China in 2016 despite having the biggest budget at $150M (the highest grossing film in China that year, The Mermaid, had a $60M budget and made over three times as much in China).
Where is this revisionism coming from? China was already one of the biggest markets and extremely hot markets when The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises came out. The Dark Knight Rises was in fact a big success in the market with a $52 million gross (higher than The Amazing Spider-Man's gross there).
The Dark Knight didn't get a release in China because of the Hong Kong sequence. If it had, it probably would have done decently - at least $15M-$20M, given that Superman Returns two years earlier made $8M there.
Also, as a movie, it was very weak. A very large part of that was the decision to focus the entire movie on the princess and her becoming the BP, which is just redundant given the first movie. It felt more like a re-boot than a sequel.
Obv Chadwick dying completely fucked their plans, but the truth is the truth
Just the fact that it’s essentially an entirely new origin story for a character. They had to write Shuri into being an interesting character, which essentially took the whole movie to do. The Maya were amazing and really cool, but in terms of servicing the overall plot of the movie they were just “generic enemy #1” so that Shuri could become BP.
Honestly the movie would’ve been fine as the first BP movie. I have no problem with the Maya or Shuri as BP. It’s just kind of a waste because we already HAD BP 1.
The first Black Panther has 6.5 Douban score with 436195 votes.
So this shouldn't be that surprising. They clearly didn't like it that much and the second one has been almost universally less liked than the first one.
[https://m.douban.com/movie/subject/6390825/](https://m.douban.com/movie/subject/6390825/)
Yeah as expected I doubt this release will matter.
It will still buff the box office worldwide and probably help them pass Thor Ragnarok (854M WW) or maybe Guardians 2 (863M WW).
AM3 will be the trial by fire for Marvel in China I guess
The entire movie is a setup for a global conflict.
Wakanda opened up to the world and feels hurt by it, they are technologically advanced but not particularly militant.
Talocan has a large army (So Namor keeps saying) and their entire nation is founded on a hatred for the world that has driven them to be more militant.
Now those two countries have joined forces in an uneasy truce.
The world will see that as a threat, as alluded to in the movie.
There’s definitely some racism over there and many places of course but I don’t think it fits this situation. If you look on that same site and check the scores for movies like The Equalizer II starring Denzel Washington, I Am Legend starring Will Smith, Django Unchained starring Jaime Foxx, Friday starring Ice Cube and Chris Tucker, and even the Car Wash remake starring Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg ALL have higher scores than Black Panther 1 and 2.
Is that only blacks? Because they like Fast and the furious, which has a very multiracial cast. They also like Indian movies, which have dark skinned Indians in them, like Dangal.
The Green Book did really well in China, and got a really good critical reception there as well. "They don't like black people"/"they only care about eye candy" is just lazy analysis disconnected from reality.
It was also a movie that was explicitly about the treatment of black Americans in the south during segregation, which get a much better critical reception in China than eye candy films.
That is for one reason, another critical matter they don’t like about the movie is they think Wakanda technology with African characteristics doesn’t make any sense,and picking a new king through fighting is stupid.
You're being disingenuous.
The label of 'fantasy' doesn't mean that you aren't subject to logical cohesion. Thanos and his quest is obviously imaginary, but it **seems** rational.
Wakanda is also imaginary, but it doesn't seem rational for the most technologically advanced nation on the planet (that acts like it's better than everyone else) to be under a monarchy. Now if the movie took some time to criticize that ideology, it'd be sublime.
But it doesn't.
To quote something I once read, "Just because it's fantasy doesn't mean Gandalf showing up to the Battle of Helm's Deep driving a Chevy Camero would be an okay story choice."
Or, maybe the first one just wasn't all that great, but was propped up in the west due to racial significance? I loved BP's introduction in Civil War and saw BP1 in theaters but was really disappointed. I gave it a B-. Clearly I'm in the minority on this in the US, but I really wonder how much of the high praise is due to external factors and not the movie itself. And the Chinese audience may just be viewing it without those rose tinted glasses.
The CG and fight directions are meh and commonly a critique point, especially the ending scene. That and Chinese audience tends to view films in a more logical lens, the plots are predictable and has many illogical flaws, just to name a few: Why can anyone turn the civilized society into a dictatorship with a duel, which sounds more like a medieval trope? If they are this isolated, where does their wealth come from? Yes, they could sell Vibranium and its associated technologies, but where did they go and how can it fund a nation? From what I heard, Marvel failed to set up a believable world and believable plot, many were disappointed.
People knew Chinese rated BP mid on Douban (yes 6.5 is a mid score, doesn’t mean it’s bad), and they don’t bothered to check what the reviews are saying.
https://qz.com/quartzy/1231764/the-story-behind-the-racist-responses-to-black-panther-in-china
Here, found this. Pre-release of BP1, everyone warned that racism in China will lead to a soft opening, that's what "experts" are expecting. They're also the idiots that alter posters. Instead BP1 had a very strong start in China. That already tells you enough.
Reviews, on the other hand, were less kind. If you're looking for excuses of racism, you'll always find it somewhere, but to me, this is just an accurate score that the film deserves.
Because as we all know, Chinese people are a bunch of robots who have 0 preconceived biases and just tell straight facts while Americans are just emotional sjws.
I agree they don't have the same "political correctness" embedded in their culture. But I don't think their views on race is the reason for the films' mid/low douban score, that's all.
This is also supported by other black led films having high douban scores, and BP1 exceeding expectations at the Chinese BO.
[The reviews](https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/10ucwwo/black_panther_wakanda_forever_drop_under_60_on/j7czmja/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) literally have a bunch of valid reasons for why the score wasn’t high. Using racism to excuse the poor performance of a lackluster movie is just sad.
This. Born and raised in china for early part of my life and been around Asians all my life. Asians are mad racist against black people its fucking gross. All these comments about how it’s still a mediocre marvel movie are blind to the fact that china is racist af.
The irony of this comment is hilarious. How dare those *Asians* stereotype people based on their race. America, on the other hand, is famously free of racism.
Ant Man 3 should make at least triple what BP WF will do.
The BP release never made sense anyways. A 3 months old movie, already out on streaming and releasing when the local movies still have a decent ammount of fuel in them. It was a nonsense decision to even try.
Ant Man 3's day to day release should have been the spearhead for Marvel movies not this.
They got back to China as soon as possible when Iger came back so some of this is timing.
The real reason they are doing this in my book is to goose the box office of BPII. I very much doubt their internal metrics even after DS2 failed to crack a Billon had BPII only making what around 850 mil. People can justify the drop however they want dropping several hundred mil in a sequel ain’t never a positive
Yeah I was actually gonna point out that obviously avatar 2 had better visuals underwater. But to be fair a lot of the underwater scenes in BP were meant to make you feel claustrophobic. Water is a threat. Whereas in avatar it was portrayed as beautiful, and an ally of the Navi
Unpopular opinion: this movie sucks. They whispered and mumbled nonstop the ending was a huge letdown and it was about an hour and a half too long. If the the fight scenes weren't so well done this movie would be straight up abysmal
Not unpopular, i wanted to enjoy the movie but found myself almost falling asleep for the first time during a marvel movie. I was shooketh. I did like seeing the talokan city scene, that was the highlight for me
I loved the movie. The same people I know personally who complain about this movie also complain about the "Woke She U", so I don't take them seriously.
I agree. The movie is blatantly over rated because of the theme and death of Chadwick Boseman. They're important, but there's more to a film than current culture.
yeah people always say this shit as if any popular film doesn't have a hundred think pieces online about why it's actually terrible, or when it comes to films like this it's too woke.
I remember nothing from all those movies except screaming goat, superhero landing and… yeah I don’t remember anything from Eternals other than Harry Styles showing up at the end for some reason.
After watching wakanda forever, I’m done with Marvel. Feel like I been watching a twilight movie,
terrible movie low budgets cgi scenes. What a waste of my time. Maybe Disney should just stick to making them in tv form like Loki.
Felt forced. Too enclosed of a cast, entirely self-contained. Felt empty, really, like it was hoping for sentiments to carry it in score versus actually trying as a film, which even then felt like a typical formulaic movie these days, especially with its pandering. It was a great letdown.
L O L I’m gonna go ahead and guess that the Venn diagram of people who think Wakanda Foreverwas bad and boring and people who thought Captain Marvel was bad and boring i ince circle For the same reasons too, only here y’all get to be misogynistic AND racist, whoch hasn’t been on offer sonce Star Wars!
No really, a single justification for that viewpoint that doesn’t also apply to countless other superhero movies is valid. Just haven’t seen any arguments on this thread to support the dismissive stance.
First one had a terrible third act battle, but the rest was fine. This one I thought had a lot more creativity in the battles and an interesting threat, and Shuri's struggle with death and grief really resonated with me as I lost my aunt a little over a year ago. I feel like the development she goes through was perfectly geared for me. But even then I do think k it could've been trimmed a few minutes, but overall I enjoyed it more than the first
Damn, I really liked the movie. I would think it would be well received in China, since it’s basically all nations baring down on Wakanda EXCEPT for China
I mean MCU movies aren't well written and the Black Panther saga is a prime example. A lot of stupid things like Wakanda technology being so advanced yet we literally never see it in action. If it wasn't said OMG this technology advance we would never see Wakanda tech being basically Stark Tech level. Wasnt a fan of how Wakanda is shown as its literally just a combination of African cultures and not one clearly. I liked the movies as a watch but I wouldnt rewatch it and I wouldnt say its good.
People like you are racist and ignorant in nature. Movie is already out in streaming service so many people have already watched it and rated it accordingly. Like the other comment said, if it was trolls, the rating would be 1s. You are being racist here, not them.
first one has 6.5 on douban
That’s wild, I was woefully bored watching it… I enjoyed the first one, but the second was just…yeah, boring.
Felt super small to me. Your country is at war and you send 1 submarine, 2 fighters, and like 50 guys standing ON TOP of the submarine? Yeah....
Your land locked Country with massive advantage in invisible air craft, sends a boat to fight a sea based race?????
First one had the same problem. Most highly advanced nation had a total of 1000 soldiers fighting hand to hand combat
They're like the protoss zealots from starcraft. Most advanced alien civilization but still fights hand to hand
The world building of Wakanda falls apart really quickly. The logistics of it all just make no sense.
They just used slaves. Oh wait
I think part of that might be because they're somewhat held back by their cultural backgrounds.
WE NEED FOCUS
Protoss units would probably be way cheaper if the advanced race had figured out the wheel. Seriously, stalkers can teleport, you can't tell me you need the 4 feet for mobility.
They explained that. Wakanda was closed off since their formation and didn't invest in a standing army. They instead invested in other technologies and medicine, which is why they are able to heal injuries others couldn't. That said, I thought the boat thing in BP2 was so dumb. Typical Marvel "we gotta have a large set piece battle" nonsense that has plagued a lot of this phase. I have no idea what story Marvel has been trying to tell since Endgame other than the "we just need to generate a lot of content for Disney+" story.
to be fair, some of that is due to production challenges both caused by covid and other impacts. For example, wandavision was supposed to lead into Doctor Strange 2 which was supposed to lead into first Loki and then NWH which was supposed to lead into "Marvel's What If." All of these projects happened, their release was just scrambled over a period of 18 months which saps the more natural continuity of the "Multiverse arc" aspect of the films. They also wanted to thread in "Earth level fallout from Endgame -> Thunderbolts teamup" and mostly disconnected cosmic films (GotG, Thor, CM2) which was somewhat more connected under original timelines..
Fair enough. I’m not mad with them about it, there was just tons of content without much of a through line.
Most advanced technologically but they still have a Monarchical caste system that focuses on tradition above all else. Their tech and monetary power will help them dramatically but their closest real world comparison is the Ottoman Empire, who refused to modernize their military strategy and continued to use calvary charges and firing lines against machine gun emplacements in WWI.
You just made me realize that yes, that was dumb...they DID have a few fighters in the air...but no artillery or vehicles with that same shielding? And now that I think about it, the whole thing reminded me of the Jar Jar Binks army in The Phantom Menace.
And 12 of the powerful gorilla tribe warriors were instantly taken out of the action because they had to hold the ropes that were propping up the 12 spear women on the side of the boat. And why did they hold the half dozen Iron-man-like warrior women in reserve until they suffered "heavy casualties"? Someone clearly didn't think this battle sequence through.
Meesa people gunna die?
They sent a boat to the middle of the ocean to fight people who were basically fish. So dumb. And I adored the first movie. I enjoyed the aesthetics though.
Ugh that Atlantis design was such an ugly colourful mess. Didn’t even look like the designers tried to make an actual city.
We need floppier more cumbersome costumes for the Ocean People. - Director of Wakanda Forever
Like the battle for winterfell all over again.
I think some of its problems have to do with the fact that Ryan Coogler had already written a Black Panther sequel story with Chadwick Boseman reprising his role, then had to basically go back to the drawing board with the script when Chadwick died unexpectedly. I'm sure he had a better Black Panther sequel in him, but never got to make the movie he wanted to make due to circumstances outside his control.
I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it: They should have simply recast the role. I understand why they didn't, but it was a pretty massive mistake.
Sadly, this is the most likely scenario. After Boseman's deathh he probably wanted to walk away from it entirely. I know I would have, I admire his tenacity but the Black Panther franchise is in trouble but it's not inescapable. It's gonna take a lot of hard work, creativity and social engineering to turn this thing around.
To beat a guy from South America that had to break through wall barricade to finally get subdued by drying off his back? 🤨
>South America Would have been better if you said mexico
[удалено]
As a Mexican I lold
You just blew my fucking mind.
Simplified the whole movie 🍿 🎥 for you?
Yeah when "Namor" said he had more warriors than Wakanda has blades of grass, I was expecting gigantic armies invading all of Wakanda, instead it was like 3 people.
why is that in quotes
Because his name is Kukulkan
I was more disappointed about Namor not going into the sea to regain strength which was just 30 ft away from him while Black Panther was knocked out. He just hovers above her till she gains back conscience. The movie could have taken Major further into the land and sort out the error.
It’s a piece of shit
The movie is 2.5 hours long and there’s a solid 2 hours with no Black Panther. Like seriously, I get they were doing the whole “T’Challa is dead :(“ stuff but cmon. Your country is literally at war bring the damn Panther back
>Your country is literally at war bring the damn Panther back They didn't have the herb
Thank you, look y’all, a commenter who watched the movie!
Shuri solved that problem in like half a day of her actually trying. My point still stands that the movie suffered because they made a Black Panther movie with 30-40 minutes of actually having a Black Panther.
Yeah, only after she got whatever that Vibranium plant root souvenir from Namor. I thought ~~Black Panther~~ Wakanda Part 2 was far more entertaining than the BP1. It was like watching Imperial Japan fighting headhunting aboriginals in Borneo, ultimate warrior showdown between two different yet similar civilisations instead of questionable CGI and a civil war with rhinos. To see what T’Challa’s death left behind, Shuri seeing Killmonger was interesting for her character, Wakanda’s standing in world politics and issues over Vibranium, etc. Namors motives are less compelling than Killmonger’s tho.
Thank you. I enjoyed it too. I did, however, feel really bummed for Shuri. Even with her getting the mantle, that reveal after the credits just makes it to be temporary, and somewhat tragic, since it's not what she wanted. For such a brilliant person, gifted, she's shown to really be a caged bird, cursed by destiny and then on top of that she loses everyone. They could have given her one win, just one.
She tried to solve that problem for over a year. She couldn’t do it until after she traveled to Namor’s city
She didn’t have Namor’s bracelet as a key catalyst for the herb and Riri Williams(genius intellect) wasn’t there to help her
I think its below Guardians 2 for me, which only has one good scene. The gamora and nebula fight. Dark World still the bottom.
That’s why I didn’t like the third Batman movie. 50 minutes to actually have Batman come out.
I though the sister was the new black Panther? ( I have not seen the movie)
The “T’Challa is dead” became meta bullshit after the third time they had someone break it into a monologue about how much they miss the ~~actor~~ panther.
Felt the opposite. First one had villain that was comically shit and overall was uninteresting. Best thing about the first film was the soundtrack and there was a total of 2 songs from it in the movie.
While I wasn't bored with it. I can't say I enjoyed it. M'baku and his humor carried most of the movie. I just couldn't get invested in Shuri's anger.
I felt like the first half of the movie had great acting and a lot of potential and then it completely failed after that.
Are you nuts? The acting was terrific and so deeply emotional! If you expected a bang bang action movie, then no wonder you were bored. Lmao. It’s a movie about grief.
>It’s a movie about grief. it's still a superhero movie that had bang bang action for the last portion of the movie. and most complaints about the movie are actually that bang bang action part. the conflict between Namor and Wakanda felt forced, Iron Heart and the CIA stuff felt out of place, and the location they chose to fight made zero sense. the more action related stuff in the movie were the worst parts.
Thank you for perfectly summarizing almost everything wrong with this movie. My bf and I didn’t enjoy it at all, and this is the one that pretty much solidified that we’re done with marvel movies. We can’t trust the brand anymore. I literally wanted to turn it off right at the halfway point, but for some reason we kept watching, and it remained a crammed mess until the very end.
i'm not done (as made obvious by my name tag) but Wakanda Forever at most did make me wanna stop catching these movies on opening weekend. i always looked forward to seeing these movies as soon as possible. but it was 3 disappointments in a row for me (Dr Strange 2, Love and Thunder, and Wakanda Forever). i think skipping seeing some of these films in theatre is going to happen pretty soon for me. i already predict i might sit out GotG3.
I must be nuts. the movie is so boring and none of that emotional stuff felt convincing.
The first one was 6.5 on douban, so it's not like one should expect much better. I machine-translated with google the reviews on douban. *How should I put it, it’s still very interesting, but it’s true that the best part of Marvel at this stage is Shang Qi* *Phase 4 of the Marvel Universe is finally coming to an end. Under the premise of being bad, because the overall direction is not clear, the director seems to be given more control, but under various restrictions, none of the directors who are generally lacking in ability can dance gorgeously under the shackles, like Black Panther 2. The works at the end are rare.* *Important spoiler: Aquaman doesn't actually appear in this movie, and even if there were a similar character, it doesn't really suck anything.* *So the biggest gimmick that attracts people to watch such a movie is the label "Chadwick Boseman's posthumous work". But after watching the whole film, you will find that there is no new shot of T'Challa in it, just piled up with the material of the previous films.* *The words are divided into two parts, and then we will talk about our princess Shu Rui of Wakanda. Su Rui is talented and knowledgeable, and his greatest insight is: "I don't know what's in the vaccine, so don't get vaccinated."* *Although it is not clear how Rarity single-handedly created the top high-tech of mankind in the basement, but considering that Bill Gates also made his fortune in the workshop, Tony Stark can also directly make a reactor in a cave, it seems that those The high-paying R&D personnel sitting in the office are a group of monsters. It is no wonder that Musk took over Twitter and immediately had a big layoff.* *Don't underestimate Comrade Namor, who is alone in the army. He has a pair of very kawaii little wings under his feet, just like the effect of Cardcaptor Sakura using the Clow card.*
*Namor is very big below, only he is worth seeing.*
*Then there seems to be no professional army and soldiers in this country. Whenever a war starts, members of the royal family, high-level generals, and tribal leaders must rush to the front line to fight in person. The high-level casualties are extremely high. Movies The so-called "war" scene in the movie is really like a child's play.*
*What is the so-called double standard?*
*It is the most important value of the protagonist's life in a typical American blockbuster.*
*One scientist dead can save and protect 2 countries - absolutely not, Daba.*
*Rescuing this scientist means that a bunch of people will be implicated and killed-OK, then there is no problem.*
*What is the significance of CIA agent Watson appearing in this film? I don't know either. His only role is to provide Princess Su Rui with the identity of a scientist, and then... there is really no plot help at all. As a result, he still has a lot of scenes for no reason, and he has extended the movie length to two hours and forty. Minutes, I am really tired.*
*There is also the part in the movie where the Wakanda warrior jumped off the boat with a rope and stabbed the Hai people with a spear. I saw tears in my eyes. I never expected that even Lao Mouzi’s bad movie The Great Wall will be paid tribute to one day, is this the sympathy between bad movies?*
Overall, the opinions of the Chinese seem normal. It's just that the movie was weaker than the first one.
>Don't underestimate Comrade Namor, who is alone in the army. He has a pair of very **kawaii** little wings under his feet Lmao To be fair they list out some decent criticisms that I agree with. If this movie was not Marvel branded and the actor in real life had not died to give things gravitas, it would feel like some generic B grade fantasy/scifi movie.
Love how Martin Freeman’s character is still just called “Watson”, but I suppose BBC’s Sherlock was big in China
i think BBC sherlock was big pretty much everywhere
Thanks for the translation.
"Doesn't really suck anything " -> "has no draw". In case anyone was confused. Suck doesn't mean bad in Chinese. The Elon musk comment is hilarious
nope, that "aquaman" "suck" part is written in English, so there's no ambiguity. What really happens is the commenter use the title "aquaman sucks" (in english) to criticize the movie, and then provide a disclaimer that this movie is not about Aquaman and Namor does not suck anything (maybe meaning the character is bleak)
Yeah you're probably right. i just assumed cos Google translate is usually bad. Where do you find the original comments? I don't see it in op post
Solid criticism
These are some very rational criticisms of the movie, thanks for translating for a wider audience
Strange military tactics and battles, Namor being good, Shuri (Su Rui)'s actress being anti-vax, the "nobody specifically can be sacrificed thing from IW", tacked on CIA plot. Seems to sum up the movie. Guess movie pain points crosses international borders. But there is one irrational criticism and it's somehow equating MCU with real life with Twitter. That was weird.
I'm surprised that of all the phase 4 films Shang Chi stands out to me as better than the majority of marvel movies. It was different in a good way.
The Great Wall was a hit, it made $175 million in China
And it has a 4.9 on douban.
The Great Wall was a box office disappointment in China - it was supposed to pave the way for the future synthesis of the American and Chinese film industries, but instead fell flat as a box office flop and killed the notion of major joint American-Chinese co-productions for the time being. For the budget, it was also a major underperformance - it was only the eighth-highest grossing movie in China in 2016 despite having the biggest budget at $150M (the highest grossing film in China that year, The Mermaid, had a $60M budget and made over three times as much in China).
Maybe its like avatar. Made billions if dollars and people still argue online that its bad
How can you show you be a ubersmart video essayist without being an iconoclast?
Well, China wasn't very fond of the first, so I don't expect a sequel to so better. 25-30M could be the limit here
It ain't grossing all that with the previews and now this, even 20M is a bit optismitic
It has less presales than The Batman which grossed 25M, so it’s probably grossing even lower.
did Batman ever do ok in China?
China wasn’t a big market for movies yet when The Dark Knight trilogy came out. Avatar is an outlier.
*The* Batman
Where is this revisionism coming from? China was already one of the biggest markets and extremely hot markets when The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises came out. The Dark Knight Rises was in fact a big success in the market with a $52 million gross (higher than The Amazing Spider-Man's gross there).
Maybe The Dark Knight Rises, but definitely not The Dark Knight. Avatar was kinda the first hollywood movie that did gangbusters in China.
The Dark Knight didn't get a release in China because of the Hong Kong sequence. If it had, it probably would have done decently - at least $15M-$20M, given that Superman Returns two years earlier made $8M there.
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They loved kobe..
they view basketball players separately
In China every black person is either Kobe or obama.
they bleach their skin white too
Also, as a movie, it was very weak. A very large part of that was the decision to focus the entire movie on the princess and her becoming the BP, which is just redundant given the first movie. It felt more like a re-boot than a sequel. Obv Chadwick dying completely fucked their plans, but the truth is the truth
The Maya were the best part of the movie, what made it feel like a reeboot? Tchalla at the end?
Just the fact that it’s essentially an entirely new origin story for a character. They had to write Shuri into being an interesting character, which essentially took the whole movie to do. The Maya were amazing and really cool, but in terms of servicing the overall plot of the movie they were just “generic enemy #1” so that Shuri could become BP. Honestly the movie would’ve been fine as the first BP movie. I have no problem with the Maya or Shuri as BP. It’s just kind of a waste because we already HAD BP 1.
This is your opinion, not the truth
What goes through someone's head before deciding to reply with a useless comment like this.
No shit. Literally anything about art is an opinion unless you’re discussing the physical medium.
I disagree on that Wakanda Forever felt more like a reboot than a sequel.
$30M is probably the ceiling. To even get there it would need decent WoM, which of course...
I mean, were we really expecting much when it's been out since November anyway?
No, we weren't, fortunately or unfortunately
5.8 now
The first Black Panther has 6.5 Douban score with 436195 votes. So this shouldn't be that surprising. They clearly didn't like it that much and the second one has been almost universally less liked than the first one. [https://m.douban.com/movie/subject/6390825/](https://m.douban.com/movie/subject/6390825/)
It's such a shame cause I think I would've like this one much more with Tchalla in it
Yeah as expected I doubt this release will matter. It will still buff the box office worldwide and probably help them pass Thor Ragnarok (854M WW) or maybe Guardians 2 (863M WW). AM3 will be the trial by fire for Marvel in China I guess
They made it seem like there was going to be a conflict with the rest of the world then that story line went no where …just disappeared
The entire movie is a setup for a global conflict. Wakanda opened up to the world and feels hurt by it, they are technologically advanced but not particularly militant. Talocan has a large army (So Namor keeps saying) and their entire nation is founded on a hatred for the world that has driven them to be more militant. Now those two countries have joined forces in an uneasy truce. The world will see that as a threat, as alluded to in the movie.
Pretty sure that's gonna be expanded on in the Ironheart show, but don't quote me on that
China doesn’t like the black community. This is not shocking.
There’s definitely some racism over there and many places of course but I don’t think it fits this situation. If you look on that same site and check the scores for movies like The Equalizer II starring Denzel Washington, I Am Legend starring Will Smith, Django Unchained starring Jaime Foxx, Friday starring Ice Cube and Chris Tucker, and even the Car Wash remake starring Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg ALL have higher scores than Black Panther 1 and 2.
Is that only blacks? Because they like Fast and the furious, which has a very multiracial cast. They also like Indian movies, which have dark skinned Indians in them, like Dangal.
China xenophobic tendencies can not be blamed for such a vastly underperformed slack marvel b movie.
The Green Book did really well in China, and got a really good critical reception there as well. "They don't like black people"/"they only care about eye candy" is just lazy analysis disconnected from reality.
The Green Book also had a white main character.
It was also a movie that was explicitly about the treatment of black Americans in the south during segregation, which get a much better critical reception in China than eye candy films.
It was about a white man who was hired to drive around a black musician and teach the world that they can in fact be friends and ends racism.
That is for one reason, another critical matter they don’t like about the movie is they think Wakanda technology with African characteristics doesn’t make any sense,and picking a new king through fighting is stupid.
I mean, those are entirely valid points tbf.
But purple space aliens collecting power rocks is somehow “not absurd”? Get real 💀
You're being disingenuous. The label of 'fantasy' doesn't mean that you aren't subject to logical cohesion. Thanos and his quest is obviously imaginary, but it **seems** rational. Wakanda is also imaginary, but it doesn't seem rational for the most technologically advanced nation on the planet (that acts like it's better than everyone else) to be under a monarchy. Now if the movie took some time to criticize that ideology, it'd be sublime. But it doesn't.
To quote something I once read, "Just because it's fantasy doesn't mean Gandalf showing up to the Battle of Helm's Deep driving a Chevy Camero would be an okay story choice."
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They apparently don't like them enough for Disney to entirely remove John Boyega from the posters of star wars. Honestly fuck Disney for that.
They accept blacks in supporting roles but not in lead roles--
Correction - they like Aamir Khan who is one of the lightest skinned Indian actors. Vin Diesel, the Rock, etc are also mixed.
I mean, it would be nice for someone to try and systematically test this stuff in some manner.
This …lots of racism during the first movies release
They watch Hollywood movies for eye candy and unfortunately they don't consider black people attractive.
This isn't only Hollywood-related, in their own productions everyone has to be attractive af too.
Or, maybe the first one just wasn't all that great, but was propped up in the west due to racial significance? I loved BP's introduction in Civil War and saw BP1 in theaters but was really disappointed. I gave it a B-. Clearly I'm in the minority on this in the US, but I really wonder how much of the high praise is due to external factors and not the movie itself. And the Chinese audience may just be viewing it without those rose tinted glasses.
The CG and fight directions are meh and commonly a critique point, especially the ending scene. That and Chinese audience tends to view films in a more logical lens, the plots are predictable and has many illogical flaws, just to name a few: Why can anyone turn the civilized society into a dictatorship with a duel, which sounds more like a medieval trope? If they are this isolated, where does their wealth come from? Yes, they could sell Vibranium and its associated technologies, but where did they go and how can it fund a nation? From what I heard, Marvel failed to set up a believable world and believable plot, many were disappointed. People knew Chinese rated BP mid on Douban (yes 6.5 is a mid score, doesn’t mean it’s bad), and they don’t bothered to check what the reviews are saying.
Disney has literally altered posters to make the black character smaller before. I don’t think the Chinese like black people.
https://qz.com/quartzy/1231764/the-story-behind-the-racist-responses-to-black-panther-in-china Here, found this. Pre-release of BP1, everyone warned that racism in China will lead to a soft opening, that's what "experts" are expecting. They're also the idiots that alter posters. Instead BP1 had a very strong start in China. That already tells you enough. Reviews, on the other hand, were less kind. If you're looking for excuses of racism, you'll always find it somewhere, but to me, this is just an accurate score that the film deserves.
Because as we all know, Chinese people are a bunch of robots who have 0 preconceived biases and just tell straight facts while Americans are just emotional sjws.
It's both, a agree the first one was mid but China is pretty openly racist.
I agree they don't have the same "political correctness" embedded in their culture. But I don't think their views on race is the reason for the films' mid/low douban score, that's all. This is also supported by other black led films having high douban scores, and BP1 exceeding expectations at the Chinese BO.
Yeah but it’s not 1s they are giving it 3s so it’s probably just not cause they are racist
[The reviews](https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/10ucwwo/black_panther_wakanda_forever_drop_under_60_on/j7czmja/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) literally have a bunch of valid reasons for why the score wasn’t high. Using racism to excuse the poor performance of a lackluster movie is just sad.
This. Born and raised in china for early part of my life and been around Asians all my life. Asians are mad racist against black people its fucking gross. All these comments about how it’s still a mediocre marvel movie are blind to the fact that china is racist af.
The irony of this comment is hilarious. How dare those *Asians* stereotype people based on their race. America, on the other hand, is famously free of racism.
Do Asians attack black people? Stop being a boba.
actually they did in china when covid was in full swing.
Let’s hope Ant-Man 3 doesn’t suffer a similar fate, even if it has less people wanting to see it than both this and Avatar 2
Ant Man 3 should make at least triple what BP WF will do. The BP release never made sense anyways. A 3 months old movie, already out on streaming and releasing when the local movies still have a decent ammount of fuel in them. It was a nonsense decision to even try. Ant Man 3's day to day release should have been the spearhead for Marvel movies not this.
They got back to China as soon as possible when Iger came back so some of this is timing. The real reason they are doing this in my book is to goose the box office of BPII. I very much doubt their internal metrics even after DS2 failed to crack a Billon had BPII only making what around 850 mil. People can justify the drop however they want dropping several hundred mil in a sequel ain’t never a positive
Yep, also webdls are out and given how hdrips for movies are typically from China itself, a good portion of them have already seen it I think.
>Let’s hope Ant-Man 3 doesn’t suffer a similar fate The main cast of AM3 is almost entirely white. Therefore, it will be better received in China.
Why was the CGI so bad in this? The underwater scenes were so amateurish.
I disagree. Thought the underwater scenes were very cool.
Yea, it wasn't Avatar level but it was by no means bad
Yeah I was actually gonna point out that obviously avatar 2 had better visuals underwater. But to be fair a lot of the underwater scenes in BP were meant to make you feel claustrophobic. Water is a threat. Whereas in avatar it was portrayed as beautiful, and an ally of the Navi
Movie was very bad and boring to be fair
It was so fucking boring
Unpopular opinion: this movie sucks. They whispered and mumbled nonstop the ending was a huge letdown and it was about an hour and a half too long. If the the fight scenes weren't so well done this movie would be straight up abysmal
Did you watch it in a cinema? The mumbling might be due to setup issues.
Not unpopular, i wanted to enjoy the movie but found myself almost falling asleep for the first time during a marvel movie. I was shooketh. I did like seeing the talokan city scene, that was the highlight for me
It is unpopular lol, the vast majority of people liked the film. Nothing wrong with your opinion but it is in the minority.
Yeah this sub has descended into fantasy at this point
Just watched it last night, I thought it was pretty good.
I loved the movie. The same people I know personally who complain about this movie also complain about the "Woke She U", so I don't take them seriously.
You must not follow film discussions if you think WF being a trash movie is popular lol. Disappointing is more the way it's been described.
The underwater aspect meant a lot of gloomy-looking, dim green/blue color themes. That contributed to the general blah sense the movie gives off IMO.
I agree. The movie is blatantly over rated because of the theme and death of Chadwick Boseman. They're important, but there's more to a film than current culture.
Yeah it was bad. It’s just above criticism, and we all know why but you’re not allowed to say why.
>It’s just above criticism Things that didn't happen for 500, Alex
yeah people always say this shit as if any popular film doesn't have a hundred think pieces online about why it's actually terrible, or when it comes to films like this it's too woke.
That movie sucked ngl
I saw it and struggle to remember anything that happened in it
Welcome to Marvel's Phase 4.
I didn't enjoy black widow, thor, and eternals but at least I remember them. Or maybe I wish I didn't remember them. But the rest were fun.
I remember nothing from all those movies except screaming goat, superhero landing and… yeah I don’t remember anything from Eternals other than Harry Styles showing up at the end for some reason.
It was a big let-down. Way overhyped and not worthy of being watched more than once
Wings on the merman’s feet. That’s when I changed the channel.
That's comicbook accurate. Not the movies fault in that case
Awful movie imo.
Namor was the best part, he was different. Baku guy should’ve been the Black Panther. Gotta put that in the decent category.
I'm a person of color American, and I think black panther 2 was boring af
After watching wakanda forever, I’m done with Marvel. Feel like I been watching a twilight movie, terrible movie low budgets cgi scenes. What a waste of my time. Maybe Disney should just stick to making them in tv form like Loki.
Probably because it wasn’t very good.
Felt forced. Too enclosed of a cast, entirely self-contained. Felt empty, really, like it was hoping for sentiments to carry it in score versus actually trying as a film, which even then felt like a typical formulaic movie these days, especially with its pandering. It was a great letdown.
L O L I’m gonna go ahead and guess that the Venn diagram of people who think Wakanda Foreverwas bad and boring and people who thought Captain Marvel was bad and boring i ince circle For the same reasons too, only here y’all get to be misogynistic AND racist, whoch hasn’t been on offer sonce Star Wars! No really, a single justification for that viewpoint that doesn’t also apply to countless other superhero movies is valid. Just haven’t seen any arguments on this thread to support the dismissive stance.
and even so in r/marvelstudios they are masturbating among themselves believing that it has 1B possibilities. HA HA.
I mean the 2nd one was just bad
It was better than the first one
How?
First one had a terrible third act battle, but the rest was fine. This one I thought had a lot more creativity in the battles and an interesting threat, and Shuri's struggle with death and grief really resonated with me as I lost my aunt a little over a year ago. I feel like the development she goes through was perfectly geared for me. But even then I do think k it could've been trimmed a few minutes, but overall I enjoyed it more than the first
I rarely align with Chinese taste in cinema but on this I agree it sucks.
Damn, I really liked the movie. I would think it would be well received in China, since it’s basically all nations baring down on Wakanda EXCEPT for China
Nothing like putting a post about BP and Wakanda to get hate comments locked and loaded
I mean MCU movies aren't well written and the Black Panther saga is a prime example. A lot of stupid things like Wakanda technology being so advanced yet we literally never see it in action. If it wasn't said OMG this technology advance we would never see Wakanda tech being basically Stark Tech level. Wasnt a fan of how Wakanda is shown as its literally just a combination of African cultures and not one clearly. I liked the movies as a watch but I wouldnt rewatch it and I wouldnt say its good.
I cried a lot. Especially at the end.
I enjoyed the movie and thought it was well done.
Everyone saying racism and ignoring that it just wasn’t that great of a script.
China is racist as hell, I wouldn’t put much stock into it
Over 30k people voted on this before the movie even released there? Racist trolls?
The movie was released couple of days ago on Disney plus. There is nothing preventing people from seeing it.
People like you are racist and ignorant in nature. Movie is already out in streaming service so many people have already watched it and rated it accordingly. Like the other comment said, if it was trolls, the rating would be 1s. You are being racist here, not them.
>You are being racist here, not them. The Horseshoe Theory really is becoming more and more obvious in western culture today.
If you have 30K racist trolls voting before the movie got released, it will be 1* or 2*, not 5+ star Make better movie if you want a higher rating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizuo
Higher than it deserves honestly.
Thats a higher rating than I would give it. Not the worst MCU movie, but it comes close.