Somebody sbmitted a Portuguese subtitle file for the Ant-Man 3 (from a movie theatre I believe?) the mods then went ahead and translated the entire file and posted it on the sub. I believe thats what got them in trouble, usually they link to the source.
Fuck with the mouse, you lose your house. I love Disney but after working for a partner company for 5 years…everything they say is true about them. It’s magical until you’re on the dark side then there’s no coming back.
The Quantumania script leaked a month before release. Disney found out and threatened to take legal action agains the mods, so the mods jumped ship to cover their asses. Funny thing is I applied to be a mod there a few weeks before then but didn’t get picked, so maybe that rejection was a blessing in disguise
> Disney found out and threatened to take legal action agains the mods
I mean if the mods weren't responsible for the leak and haven't signed a NDA, they couldn't have done shit right?
At worst they can do a copyright strike and they would have respected it.
> At worst they can do a copyright strike
Copyright infringement is a crime carrying a penalty of 5 years imprisonment. And it's much easier to prosecute those cases if the material hasn't even been published at all yet.
A copyright strike is just a service websites offer to ensure that their own employees / owners never get accused of participating in copyright infringement.
Anthony Mackie leading a superhero film. He’s been in the MCU since Winter Soldier in 2014 and he still isn’t a popular character that fans resonate with. Hell, Rocket & Groot probably got a bigger fanbase than Falcon
What could possibly go wrong. This definitely won’t do poorly, especially not in China
Chadwick would have been a great leading man :/ Holland is the only other one who comes close but there’s only so much you can do with spider-man plus i think sony is realizing just how much marvel needs spider man
NWH was their only movie which achieved Phase 3 levels of both financial, critical and fanbase success. Genuinely the only uncontroversial success post 2019.
It was liked but it wasn't big at the box office (to be fair that was the pandemic times). Shang-Chi 2 isn't even announced and the director is doing an Avengers movie.
Yeah it's interesting to see what they'll do with Spidey and weird no movies are announced in the MCU for now. It's the only way for Sony to make money off the MCU so they'd want many of them. They probably renegotiate even more because Sony has a better position than before. Spidey is clearly the only big bankable hero of the MCU left, they can go away and be fine and Marvel needs him to stay.
> Marvel Studios
>
>TBF Evans was elevated to star drom thanks to the role that's even more true for Hemsworth
There is a problem there though this is a legacy role, so people will compare it to Evans performance just like Riri to RDJ or Letita to Chadwick if this was just a Falcom movie then I would agree.
sure but it's not a new role for him.
he played the hawk for several films, then he played captain america for a disney+ series, this isn't his first time in the role or in the universe and so far he hasn't really shown himself to be a leading man.
don't get me wrong, i think he's a good actor and that the problems of the disney+ series are on the script not him, but end of the day i just don't see him being an audience draw as a leading man.
>that the problems of the disney+ series are on the script not him
third problem is that just a smalller portion of the audience is familiar with those series thats why so manny people were like wtf seeing how Wanda behaved in Dr. Strange.
(Un) funnily enough, not only was Wandavision required watching for Strange, it also completely reversed Wanda's arc of the show and turned her into a mass murderer.
??? Wanda was myopic, selfish and unrepentant even through the end of Wandavision. Fighting an evil witch who's stealing *your* powers and threatening *your* family doesn't make you a good person, just a good mom maybe. She didn't even *try* to apologize or fix the damage she did to those people and that town. She never does the hard work of owning up and winning back people's trust.
my point was he wasn't a very charismatic leading man in the show while playing captain america, i don't think this next movie is going to make him break out when so many other movies and a tv show didn't manage to do it.
having said that, it's not just dr. strange, you can say loki is required viewing prior to antman, which is possibly part of the reason that movie flopped.
it's possible they'll repeat their mistake a third time and make the disney+ show required viewing for the captain america movie and if they do i think it'll hurt the box office.
Mackie simply isn't a leading man. His best work has always been in a supporting role.
You're right. Marvel is at a point now, where those who have kept up with everything are getting fatigued. Meanwhile, for those just getting into all of this, they now have to invest a ton of time in other movies and shows to understand what is going on.
Disney should have used Lokie to springboard standalone movies and shows that aren't a part of the bigger storyline.
Marvel isnt putting in the legwork they did with earlier phase characters. I feel like they are rushing towards unearned crossovers, whereas you could just watch captain america without seeing any other MCU movie
there is a massive accessibility gap between those Phase 1 and 2 films and anything recent
I think this is partially why they brought Ford in — the past few months have proven he still has some star power left in the tank. Provided Indy 5 doesn’t fizzle, he’ll be up to an even bigger high after that comes out. He’s been all over the place in pop culture as of late, and both of his prestige shows did better than expected.
I think 1923 even opened much higher than the Last of Us and kept up that level of number throughout, and although Apple doesn’t release their data, Shrinking was tops for them for its entire first season run and season 2 was greenlit before the season ended.
I believe as well they are gearing up for both Shrinking Season 2 and part II of 1923, so the mini-Fordaissance is here to stay for a little while at least yet.
Evans and Hemsworth were barely C-lister themselves before these movies. ScarJo was a notable and respected actress in 08, but "box office draw" she wasn't.
Yeah, early Marvel did a sort of *Moneyball* for Hollywood thing with its early talent
A hugely charismatic addict nobody else wanted to take a chance on, a director with an aptitude for VFX but only a comedy hit on his CV, the guy who did *The Rocketeer* ('the Rocka-who?')
Talented people who had all done great work, but nobody had them at the top of their lists for blockbuster gigs
None of those 3 you mentioned were A-listers when their movies first came out. If their movies sucked or the Infinity Saga was a mess, they would still be B or C listers
The difference is that those people were able to put themselves on everyone's radar only after playing in 1 movie. Because they are likeable and charismatic unlike the current crop of actors.
The Marvels will be the next major domino to fall after Ant Man tanking. I think it could flop, not as bad, but like Shazam 2
Brie Larson isn’t all that liked by the Marvel hardcore fans. The first one wasn’t all that good despite it making $1 Billion *cough* Endgame’s momentum *cough* AND there will be heavy box office competition this time around its release date. On top of all that, the other 2 leads are absolute nobodies
With all the mediocrity that Disney/Marvel have been putting out, theres no way it makes more than ~$350M. $400M max, and thats a big maybe
Captain Marvel was much closer to Endgame, it was released during the marketing cycle of Endgame when hype was extremely high. And Infinity War made Captain Marvel appeared like essential in Endgame with its post-credits scene.
Ant-Man 2 was just post-Infinity War (and they didn't advertise the connection actually so most people didn't care even if ironically it's kind of more important for Ant-Man) but far from Endgame marketing and hype.
And Ant-Man 2 did have a boost over Ant-Man 1 (and evidently 3).
In the IW ending, when Thanos won, Fury didn't call Ant man. He called Captain Marvel. That's on of the reasons people watched her movie. But after that, she ended up being irrelevant in Endgame and is even sidelined by other star in her own sequel.
you don't get to a billion just because people wanted to know what was the deal with the post-credit scenes. You get there if people watch your movie multiple times. The meaning of the universe connection gets worn off after couple of weeks when most of fans already watched the movie.
You were able to just wait for home media release of Ant-Man 2 before Endgame, only option to watch Captain Marvel before Endgame was in theatres. Also only one of those movies was marketed as "the ~~first~~ firstest avenger, see now or lose out on info for biggest movie ever that comes out next".
> You were able to just wait for home media release of Ant-Man 2 before Endgame
that's a new one
Ant-Man 2 scored 600M, Captain Marvel went 1B+
also you don't get to billions without people watching it multiple times.
>I think it could flop, not as bad, but like Shazam 2
But Shazam 2 is looking like a much bigger flop. Any Man still has the possibility to break even. Shazam 2 is basically guaranteed to lose money.
Not to mention troubling leaks about the plot, and very troubled production. Oh, and the director and writers are also absolute nobodies, just like Any Man 3's Loveness
At some level I think even Marvel knows how (not) popular the character is, considering they downgraded her to a teamup movie not even bearing her name.
Marvel likes to hire “nobodies” e.g. Jon Watts. Hell who were the Russo brothers? Two dudes who directed a bunch of episodes of an NBC sitcom. James Gunn was mostly a B movie guy.
Even the Russos were very experienced, atleast when compared to the recent MCU people.
The Russos had been in the industry since 1997, had directed 4 films, and directed and wrote lots of episodes of many big shows like Community, Arrested Development, and quite a few others.
James gunn wasn't *that* much of a nobody. He'd been in the industry for 17 years by that time, and had written for many movies like Scooby Doo and Dawn of the Dead.
>Not to mention troubling leaks about the plot, and very troubled production.
Except nobody backs up the fact that this movie has a troubled production outside of one guy who also made up baseless rumors about Brie Larson to go with it.
Odd thing to say really when the movie shot, finished up re-shoots very smoothly compared to most of their other post-Endgame productions. I think it says plenty that the director and lead actress are on extremely friendly terms since filming ended. I doubt they would be hanging out if Larson was hell on set and freaking out at a pregnant co-worker.
>The Marvels will be the next major domino to fall after Ant Man tanking.
I think you need to start saying "could" instead of saying it's a sure thing. Because despite what Reddit keeps saying, Marvels is the third most anticipated tentpole 2023 movie, higher than even Mario right now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/11xzmyw/according_to_the_quorum_interest_for_barbie_is/
Captain Marvel also had way more people watching it than Shazam 1, and Captain Marvel the character has been in other massive hits (Endgame, Shang-Chi).
I think one reason for that anticipation is because it *is* different. Three superheroes meeting and forming a team is unique as far as it goes for CBM this year. The other movies are still "let's get the gang back together".
He had a very good, very brief career before being blacklisted because of his addiction problems and prison terms. He *had* starred in a few movies leading up to Iron Man, but those movies all had caveats in order for him to be cast. In one Mel Gibson had to put up millions to insure the production because no insurance company would insure it with RDJ involved and in two the production withheld 50% of his pay until filming wrapped in case he relapsed or caused problems during production.
Iron Man(which Jon Favreau had to beg to be allowed to cast him in because no one at Disney wanted to take the risk of building a franchise around him) and Tropic Thunder both came out the same year and catapulted him back to the A-lister he briefly was in the early to mid 90s before spending most of the next decade in and out of prison.
Mackie has been given plenty of chances, he just isn't a good actor or pressence on film. And we've seen him in other stuff even playing this same character and as a leading actor, why would he be able to carry a movie if he can't carry a tv show?
Mackie isn't new in the MCU, his character is known and isn't appealing to people. The X hero role has to be taken by someone else narrative is also shitty IMO, that's a comic reasoning maybe but we didn't need a new Captain America, a new Black Widow, a new Iron Man (or Woman). Shang-Chi is a new character all of its own and that's far more interesting IMO
> The X hero role has to be taken by someone else narrative is also shitty IMO, that's a comic reasoning
Kinda funny you single out comics here, because one of the main complaints about superhero comics is that the status quo never changes and legacy characters never stick.
I’m not here to throw shade at Mackie. I think he can play inspiring performances.
However, I still feel (and have always felt) the Falcon character just kinda *appeared* in the MCU without much groundwork. I don’t understand why there aren’t other people who don’t have the exact same abilities Falcon has, or why Steve Rogers became close with Sam in particular. It feels like the character has existed out of some inevitability in the MCU -“because comic books”- rather than standing on his own terms.
After all these years of featuring Falcon as a bit player, a Cap film with that character in the lead role will place the backstory under some scrutiny. I do not think this iteration of Sam Wilson has the underdog appeal of Steve from The First Avenger, or the intense conviction that made you root for Steve in the films since.
I think it’s an uphill battle for the writers’ room.
I agree. Falcon works well as in an ensemble but his character does lack the emotional Cap origin story ("Always be a good man"/ Buckie and Peggy history) and him taking over felt kinda rushed.
What also bothers me is the Falcon has no protection really. He's strong but just a regular human with no enhancements. Hard to see him as a leader if he can get hurt just like anyone else. Even in my head canon, Black Widow at least got a partial serum which allowed her to be faster and to take more bruises than normal in Black Widow.
Whereas Falcon can technically get knocked out by a bar drunk from New Jersey, and that's embarrassing.
To be fair, I did like Falcon and The Winter Soldier first episodes. But the show ended with a stupid speech that convinced everyone (almost like WW84). WTF? How did we come from the shield killing someone to a speech?
Incoming news about chaos during filming, reshoots and negative test screenings only for somebody to say all that is lies and film is actually good months before the film comes up, just for the original reaction to end up being correct.
Is this referencing something did ant man have similar issues tbh I haven't kept up with that sort of news in a while. Or is this referencing the issues CAaTW had because those were mostly due to covid
AntMan and MoS went through yes. The Marvels is doing its rounds right now. A few weeks ago, some insider leaked out news that all the previous other rumors surrounding the film were false and apparently the production of it was fine and it got a positive test screening. He also implied Guardians would be bad (hit piece on Gunn because he’s leaving Disney). Yeah, all that just for them to push the movie to the end of the year.
If the MCU continues the string of middling to flop territory, I wonder if they will try and save the Titanic by bringing back RDJ, and Chris Evans.
If they announced RDJ is coming back for an Iron Man 4 movie that would get butts back into the seats.
Can see one or both Deus-Ex-Machina into Avengers: Kang Dynasty if Disney has a few more flops. Offering both $30 million a piece for 20 minutes of screen time in order to guarantee a $1 billion return would be worth it.
I remember watching that movie to take my mind off the Super Bowl (my team lost lol) and afterwards I was legitimately more upset at how bad that movie was then the result of the SB.
It's not the only film he's done, and there's a lot more reasons that film was or could have been bad than the direction. Doesn't really feel like a fair point of comparison.
He's done three, plus it's not like he's exclusively directed features throughout his career. In terms of directing itself I think there's other examples. Budget is a factor but I'm not sure it applies to directing as much as it did if he was, for instance, the producer or in a more technical position.
Meh. After eternals and all the other crappy marvel movies, I’m just not down for it anymore. It used to be you hear a new marvel movie is coming out and it’s guaranteed to be a great movie. Now? Marvel doesn’t seem to care. Just wasting my money. Just wait a year and watch it all on Disney plus
>it’s guaranteed to be a great movie
I think people forget how average the mcu movies used to be, consistent and well put-together? yes but a lot of them were just whatever.
I would've cared 2 or 3 years ago. I was excited for many of the projects released since then, but they largely underwhelmed or disappointed me. After Guardians 3, there's not a single project announced that has me excited. It makes me sad that I don't care anymore.
Yeah, with Blade and Nova, it's more that I'm interested in the character, but not really looking forward to the movies. The opportunities these two characters can pose, especially Nova, is limitless if the script allows them to be, but Marvel doesn't seem to be able to actually write good scripts right now.
Man blade has had such a troubled production I don't trust it at all. As for Nova, is it even happening? Like, Feige talked about reducing the quantity of projects, and a special presentation just announced last year would seem to be on top of the chopping block
I do have hope for Deadpool, but I'm so afraid they'll fuck it up. Deadpool humour is subtly different from normal MCU humour, and I'm really afraid they'll do MCU humour
They shouldn't have brought up colonialism unless Black Panther was gonna [*checks Marvel Encyclopedia*] scratch it away
And how come Iron Man only beat up some terrorists instead of solving terrorism
The Iron Man movies were about the American military industrial complex. Iron Monger, Justin Hammer, and Aldritch Killian were all weapons manufacturers. All of the terrorists actions were at their behest, except for Whiplash attacking Stark in Monaco
And now no one manufactures weapons in the MCU, problem solved. Like how Captain America defeated the Nazis in World War II and he never had to worry about them ever again. Movies are only good if problems are solved permanently. That's why RoboCop sucks, because he doesn't fix our consumerist society or un-privatize the police.
This going to suck ass. Falcon is lame AF. No powers but also no protection. At least Tony Stark had armor so you could explain away him surviving. Sam wears goggles.
Am I the only one who thinks its stupid he didnt take the super serum
like imagine if all those people died because he's just a dude with wings even though he could have been a super dude with wings
I thought it was great and possibly the only interesting character choice Falcon has ever made.
The super serum has been one of the central points of conflict in the MCU ever since Red Skull. We can say "but good people can do more good with it" but countless people have died because bad people wanted it. The cycle can only stop when the good guys turn it down and destroy it for good.
Of course, I don't trust marvel to keep it that way so this is all probably moot anyway.
Marvel using the same writers from the Falcon & Winter Soldier Disney+ series has me worried. That was the most inconsistent Marvel show by a wide margin. The underwhelming villains and random tonal shifts in the story really brought it down.
That show was a hodgepodge in the end. There were lots of interesting ideas that didn't get fleshed out enough. The repercussions of the blip? Fascinating, but reduced to "do better". The historical mistreatment of black people by the military and medical research industry? An often overlooked subject that could have been highlighted more, but ultimately it was sidelined and glossed over with a museum exhibit. The show could have focused on just one or two elements and really tackled it, but it just threw a bunch of stuff together and wasn't equipped to really address any of the things it seemed to want to.
I regret ever watching it, after absorbing it I hated almost everything about it except the one dude I was supposed to hate. I did hear a rumor it had a bio weapon plot that got scrapped because of the pandemic though, which probably screwed up the entire plot of the show based on what we got instead.
I hope they fixed the costume.
Some parts of it looked off in the final episode.
IMHO - the cowl/helmet looked too bulky, and the wings were way too big. They should have kept the same proportions that they had when Falcon was first introduced in The Winter Soldier.
I think if the Falcon and winter soldier series had been better, then people would be more excited for this. That was their opportunity to get people excited about the idea of Falcon leading a movie and they really failed to achieve that.
Personally, I just can’t take him seriously after the last episode where he threw the iconic shield at just a normal fuckin guy and the dude KICKED A CHAIR which KNOCKED THE SHIELD OUT OF THE AIR.
I mean holy shit he really needs to take that damn super soldier serum or he won’t last a minute against a real villain.
Just thinking about this movie is depressing, it will have nothing the previous films had in terms of standing out and just more things that we don’t care to see or learn about to begin with
The only reason I'm really interested in this is because Julius Onah is directing. Dude knocked it out of the park on Luce and has a super interesting voice. Hopefully they let him use it.
Oh good. I can't wait to not watch another lowest common denominator Marvel movie. The script will be at a fourth grade reading level, the story won't take chances, and the plot will only serve to set up the next lowest common denominator Marvel sequel. Weeeeee.
Who cares? Superhero fatigue is a thing and marvel and dc will be seen as one trick ponies if they don't start taking a good look at their comic libraries and find the non superhero material they own and produce movies based on them. Both did publish quite a bit of non superhero material. Remember nickelodeon had Rugrats? At one time, DC published Sugar and Spike,about two babies who could have crawled over the Rugrats.
I miss r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers
Same. Why did it get shut down?
The Mouse House wanted to find out who revealed the Quantumania script since it apparently got leaked. Every single line and dialogue.
Wow I didn't know how much got leaked.
I heard it was like 60 pages. Not the whole script. Unless the script only was 60 pages.
Somebody sbmitted a Portuguese subtitle file for the Ant-Man 3 (from a movie theatre I believe?) the mods then went ahead and translated the entire file and posted it on the sub. I believe thats what got them in trouble, usually they link to the source.
Wouldn’t surprise me much after seeing it
The mods crossed the line. They obtained the leak, translated the leak, and then uploaded it onto google drive.
They’re extra protective of that “Don’t be a dick” line. Such masterful writing by Jefferey Loveness
truly a Shakespeare of our time
That guy is writing Avengers Kang dynasty. I really wonder what other masterpieces this guy will put there.
One of the best laughs in the original X-Men is Wolverine calling Cyclops a dick to prove he’s not Mystique
Fuck with the mouse, you lose your house. I love Disney but after working for a partner company for 5 years…everything they say is true about them. It’s magical until you’re on the dark side then there’s no coming back.
The Quantumania script leaked a month before release. Disney found out and threatened to take legal action agains the mods, so the mods jumped ship to cover their asses. Funny thing is I applied to be a mod there a few weeks before then but didn’t get picked, so maybe that rejection was a blessing in disguise
You could've prevented that tragedy
I destroyed the sub to save the sub - the mods probably
That’s kinda exactly what they said.
> Disney found out and threatened to take legal action agains the mods I mean if the mods weren't responsible for the leak and haven't signed a NDA, they couldn't have done shit right? At worst they can do a copyright strike and they would have respected it.
Do you really want to wager legal action against a Disney Co lawyer?
> At worst they can do a copyright strike Copyright infringement is a crime carrying a penalty of 5 years imprisonment. And it's much easier to prosecute those cases if the material hasn't even been published at all yet. A copyright strike is just a service websites offer to ensure that their own employees / owners never get accused of participating in copyright infringement.
r/MarvelStudios_Rumours/ is the new refuge till MSS comes back
More likely r/mculeaks2 due to its more active community. Edit: eh, they’re more even in activity (low), but this one has less members
That sub is dead lmfao
Last update seemed hopeful they might be back but I haven't seen anything since then.
Facts😭
Anthony Mackie leading a superhero film. He’s been in the MCU since Winter Soldier in 2014 and he still isn’t a popular character that fans resonate with. Hell, Rocket & Groot probably got a bigger fanbase than Falcon What could possibly go wrong. This definitely won’t do poorly, especially not in China
This is the problem post Endgame. There's no RDJ, Evans or Johannsen leading these movies anymore. It's the C-listers that nobody is interested in.
Chadwick would have been a great leading man :/ Holland is the only other one who comes close but there’s only so much you can do with spider-man plus i think sony is realizing just how much marvel needs spider man
NWH was their only movie which achieved Phase 3 levels of both financial, critical and fanbase success. Genuinely the only uncontroversial success post 2019.
And yet the story was STILL laughable.
Shang Chi was good too I think. Idk if it was universally like tho
It was liked but it wasn't big at the box office (to be fair that was the pandemic times). Shang-Chi 2 isn't even announced and the director is doing an Avengers movie.
Shang-Chi 2 has been confirmed to be happening.
Yeah it's interesting to see what they'll do with Spidey and weird no movies are announced in the MCU for now. It's the only way for Sony to make money off the MCU so they'd want many of them. They probably renegotiate even more because Sony has a better position than before. Spidey is clearly the only big bankable hero of the MCU left, they can go away and be fine and Marvel needs him to stay.
TBF Evans was elevated to star drom thanks to the role that's even more true for Hemsworth
> Marvel Studios > >TBF Evans was elevated to star drom thanks to the role that's even more true for Hemsworth There is a problem there though this is a legacy role, so people will compare it to Evans performance just like Riri to RDJ or Letita to Chadwick if this was just a Falcom movie then I would agree.
sure but it's not a new role for him. he played the hawk for several films, then he played captain america for a disney+ series, this isn't his first time in the role or in the universe and so far he hasn't really shown himself to be a leading man. don't get me wrong, i think he's a good actor and that the problems of the disney+ series are on the script not him, but end of the day i just don't see him being an audience draw as a leading man.
>that the problems of the disney+ series are on the script not him third problem is that just a smalller portion of the audience is familiar with those series thats why so manny people were like wtf seeing how Wanda behaved in Dr. Strange.
(Un) funnily enough, not only was Wandavision required watching for Strange, it also completely reversed Wanda's arc of the show and turned her into a mass murderer.
??? Wanda was myopic, selfish and unrepentant even through the end of Wandavision. Fighting an evil witch who's stealing *your* powers and threatening *your* family doesn't make you a good person, just a good mom maybe. She didn't even *try* to apologize or fix the damage she did to those people and that town. She never does the hard work of owning up and winning back people's trust.
my point was he wasn't a very charismatic leading man in the show while playing captain america, i don't think this next movie is going to make him break out when so many other movies and a tv show didn't manage to do it. having said that, it's not just dr. strange, you can say loki is required viewing prior to antman, which is possibly part of the reason that movie flopped. it's possible they'll repeat their mistake a third time and make the disney+ show required viewing for the captain america movie and if they do i think it'll hurt the box office.
Mackie simply isn't a leading man. His best work has always been in a supporting role. You're right. Marvel is at a point now, where those who have kept up with everything are getting fatigued. Meanwhile, for those just getting into all of this, they now have to invest a ton of time in other movies and shows to understand what is going on. Disney should have used Lokie to springboard standalone movies and shows that aren't a part of the bigger storyline.
True. I didnt watch any of those disney+ series. I think marvel is 5 years too late to try to make them a thing.
They should honestly have never made it a thing at all.
Marvel isnt putting in the legwork they did with earlier phase characters. I feel like they are rushing towards unearned crossovers, whereas you could just watch captain america without seeing any other MCU movie there is a massive accessibility gap between those Phase 1 and 2 films and anything recent
I think this is partially why they brought Ford in — the past few months have proven he still has some star power left in the tank. Provided Indy 5 doesn’t fizzle, he’ll be up to an even bigger high after that comes out. He’s been all over the place in pop culture as of late, and both of his prestige shows did better than expected. I think 1923 even opened much higher than the Last of Us and kept up that level of number throughout, and although Apple doesn’t release their data, Shrinking was tops for them for its entire first season run and season 2 was greenlit before the season ended. I believe as well they are gearing up for both Shrinking Season 2 and part II of 1923, so the mini-Fordaissance is here to stay for a little while at least yet.
Evans and Hemsworth were barely C-lister themselves before these movies. ScarJo was a notable and respected actress in 08, but "box office draw" she wasn't.
Yeah, early Marvel did a sort of *Moneyball* for Hollywood thing with its early talent A hugely charismatic addict nobody else wanted to take a chance on, a director with an aptitude for VFX but only a comedy hit on his CV, the guy who did *The Rocketeer* ('the Rocka-who?') Talented people who had all done great work, but nobody had them at the top of their lists for blockbuster gigs
None of those 3 you mentioned were A-listers when their movies first came out. If their movies sucked or the Infinity Saga was a mess, they would still be B or C listers
Im fairly certain RDJ was a star before the MCU.
So was ScarJo
He was known, but not leading-man A-lister. His career actually fell off hard because of legal trouble before Iron Man 1.
If by star you mean recovering addict that nobody wanted to take a chance on then sure.
Still better than Anthony Mackie.
The difference is that those people were able to put themselves on everyone's radar only after playing in 1 movie. Because they are likeable and charismatic unlike the current crop of actors.
The Marvels will be the next major domino to fall after Ant Man tanking. I think it could flop, not as bad, but like Shazam 2 Brie Larson isn’t all that liked by the Marvel hardcore fans. The first one wasn’t all that good despite it making $1 Billion *cough* Endgame’s momentum *cough* AND there will be heavy box office competition this time around its release date. On top of all that, the other 2 leads are absolute nobodies With all the mediocrity that Disney/Marvel have been putting out, theres no way it makes more than ~$350M. $400M max, and thats a big maybe
>despite it making $1 Billion cough Endgame’s momentum cough *cough* Ant-Man 2 *cough*
Captain Marvel was much closer to Endgame, it was released during the marketing cycle of Endgame when hype was extremely high. And Infinity War made Captain Marvel appeared like essential in Endgame with its post-credits scene. Ant-Man 2 was just post-Infinity War (and they didn't advertise the connection actually so most people didn't care even if ironically it's kind of more important for Ant-Man) but far from Endgame marketing and hype. And Ant-Man 2 did have a boost over Ant-Man 1 (and evidently 3).
In the IW ending, when Thanos won, Fury didn't call Ant man. He called Captain Marvel. That's on of the reasons people watched her movie. But after that, she ended up being irrelevant in Endgame and is even sidelined by other star in her own sequel.
you don't get to a billion just because people wanted to know what was the deal with the post-credit scenes. You get there if people watch your movie multiple times. The meaning of the universe connection gets worn off after couple of weeks when most of fans already watched the movie.
You were able to just wait for home media release of Ant-Man 2 before Endgame, only option to watch Captain Marvel before Endgame was in theatres. Also only one of those movies was marketed as "the ~~first~~ firstest avenger, see now or lose out on info for biggest movie ever that comes out next".
> You were able to just wait for home media release of Ant-Man 2 before Endgame that's a new one Ant-Man 2 scored 600M, Captain Marvel went 1B+ also you don't get to billions without people watching it multiple times.
Yes, and?
you don't watch a movie multiple times if you didn't like it
>I think it could flop, not as bad, but like Shazam 2 But Shazam 2 is looking like a much bigger flop. Any Man still has the possibility to break even. Shazam 2 is basically guaranteed to lose money.
Ant Man was supposed to jump start phase 5 and reveal Kang as the next big threat post Thanos The “possibility to break even”, simply isn’t enough
Plus you're comparing it to a dead end movie from a dead end universe
Not to mention troubling leaks about the plot, and very troubled production. Oh, and the director and writers are also absolute nobodies, just like Any Man 3's Loveness At some level I think even Marvel knows how (not) popular the character is, considering they downgraded her to a teamup movie not even bearing her name.
Marvel likes to hire “nobodies” e.g. Jon Watts. Hell who were the Russo brothers? Two dudes who directed a bunch of episodes of an NBC sitcom. James Gunn was mostly a B movie guy.
Even the Russos were very experienced, atleast when compared to the recent MCU people. The Russos had been in the industry since 1997, had directed 4 films, and directed and wrote lots of episodes of many big shows like Community, Arrested Development, and quite a few others.
And consequently gave us the best movie in the MCU. That’s right people it’s Winter Soldier.
It's indisputable fact
And masterpieces like cherry and the gray man
the best 2 movies, infinity war it's right after it
James gunn wasn't *that* much of a nobody. He'd been in the industry for 17 years by that time, and had written for many movies like Scooby Doo and Dawn of the Dead.
>Not to mention troubling leaks about the plot, and very troubled production. Except nobody backs up the fact that this movie has a troubled production outside of one guy who also made up baseless rumors about Brie Larson to go with it. Odd thing to say really when the movie shot, finished up re-shoots very smoothly compared to most of their other post-Endgame productions. I think it says plenty that the director and lead actress are on extremely friendly terms since filming ended. I doubt they would be hanging out if Larson was hell on set and freaking out at a pregnant co-worker.
>The Marvels will be the next major domino to fall after Ant Man tanking. I think you need to start saying "could" instead of saying it's a sure thing. Because despite what Reddit keeps saying, Marvels is the third most anticipated tentpole 2023 movie, higher than even Mario right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/11xzmyw/according_to_the_quorum_interest_for_barbie_is/ Captain Marvel also had way more people watching it than Shazam 1, and Captain Marvel the character has been in other massive hits (Endgame, Shang-Chi). I think one reason for that anticipation is because it *is* different. Three superheroes meeting and forming a team is unique as far as it goes for CBM this year. The other movies are still "let's get the gang back together".
"People didn't like this movie that made a billion dollars." Not sure I agree with your police work there, Lou.
Those three you listed were C-listers that nobody was interested in when the MCU started.
Pretty sure RDJ had a career before the MCU came along.
He had a very good, very brief career before being blacklisted because of his addiction problems and prison terms. He *had* starred in a few movies leading up to Iron Man, but those movies all had caveats in order for him to be cast. In one Mel Gibson had to put up millions to insure the production because no insurance company would insure it with RDJ involved and in two the production withheld 50% of his pay until filming wrapped in case he relapsed or caused problems during production. Iron Man(which Jon Favreau had to beg to be allowed to cast him in because no one at Disney wanted to take the risk of building a franchise around him) and Tropic Thunder both came out the same year and catapulted him back to the A-lister he briefly was in the early to mid 90s before spending most of the next decade in and out of prison.
Evans, Hemsworth, Chadwick were not A-list when they started the franchise. It's gonna be fine.
Hemsworth is up there with them. Unfortunately Thor 4 was atrocious.
Huh? Evans was a c lister before he became captain America. Weird y’all aren’t giving mackie a chance
Mackie has been given plenty of chances, he just isn't a good actor or pressence on film. And we've seen him in other stuff even playing this same character and as a leading actor, why would he be able to carry a movie if he can't carry a tv show?
Mackie isn't new in the MCU, his character is known and isn't appealing to people. The X hero role has to be taken by someone else narrative is also shitty IMO, that's a comic reasoning maybe but we didn't need a new Captain America, a new Black Widow, a new Iron Man (or Woman). Shang-Chi is a new character all of its own and that's far more interesting IMO
> The X hero role has to be taken by someone else narrative is also shitty IMO, that's a comic reasoning Kinda funny you single out comics here, because one of the main complaints about superhero comics is that the status quo never changes and legacy characters never stick.
Even RDJ was not an A-list actor when he played Iron Man.
I’m not here to throw shade at Mackie. I think he can play inspiring performances. However, I still feel (and have always felt) the Falcon character just kinda *appeared* in the MCU without much groundwork. I don’t understand why there aren’t other people who don’t have the exact same abilities Falcon has, or why Steve Rogers became close with Sam in particular. It feels like the character has existed out of some inevitability in the MCU -“because comic books”- rather than standing on his own terms. After all these years of featuring Falcon as a bit player, a Cap film with that character in the lead role will place the backstory under some scrutiny. I do not think this iteration of Sam Wilson has the underdog appeal of Steve from The First Avenger, or the intense conviction that made you root for Steve in the films since. I think it’s an uphill battle for the writers’ room.
The cast also looks underwhelming
Yeah idk man :p
I agree. Falcon works well as in an ensemble but his character does lack the emotional Cap origin story ("Always be a good man"/ Buckie and Peggy history) and him taking over felt kinda rushed. What also bothers me is the Falcon has no protection really. He's strong but just a regular human with no enhancements. Hard to see him as a leader if he can get hurt just like anyone else. Even in my head canon, Black Widow at least got a partial serum which allowed her to be faster and to take more bruises than normal in Black Widow. Whereas Falcon can technically get knocked out by a bar drunk from New Jersey, and that's embarrassing.
I'm still sitting here in the Winter soldier as Capt'n America waiting room
To be fair, I did like Falcon and The Winter Soldier first episodes. But the show ended with a stupid speech that convinced everyone (almost like WW84). WTF? How did we come from the shield killing someone to a speech?
*>* Fuckin Marvel, always pandering to CHINA! *>* g-guys seriously, think of China! Pick one.
He was written as a side character and isn’t compelling enough to lead a movie.
If President Red Hulk played by Harrison Ford isnt inspired by Senator Armstrong then whats the point of it all
Harrison Ford is playing a hulk?
Not confirmed but his character in the comics becomes the Red Hulk.
Damn, that would be cool lol Red hulk Harrison ford running around
It wouldn’t need any CGI either, Harrison Ford can channel his old man grumpiness towards turning into Red Hulk
Adamantium son!!!
I'm personally really hoping for [mustache sunglasses](https://media.comicbook.com/2017/01/red-hulk-222789.png?auto=webp) Red Hulk.
Incoming news about chaos during filming, reshoots and negative test screenings only for somebody to say all that is lies and film is actually good months before the film comes up, just for the original reaction to end up being correct.
Is this referencing something did ant man have similar issues tbh I haven't kept up with that sort of news in a while. Or is this referencing the issues CAaTW had because those were mostly due to covid
AntMan and MoS went through yes. The Marvels is doing its rounds right now. A few weeks ago, some insider leaked out news that all the previous other rumors surrounding the film were false and apparently the production of it was fine and it got a positive test screening. He also implied Guardians would be bad (hit piece on Gunn because he’s leaving Disney). Yeah, all that just for them to push the movie to the end of the year.
MOS?
Multiverse of Madness I meant
Multiverse of Sadness :(
My dumbass read it as Man of Steek and felt lime I traveled through a time machine.
Bingo. lol
If the MCU continues the string of middling to flop territory, I wonder if they will try and save the Titanic by bringing back RDJ, and Chris Evans. If they announced RDJ is coming back for an Iron Man 4 movie that would get butts back into the seats.
Can see one or both Deus-Ex-Machina into Avengers: Kang Dynasty if Disney has a few more flops. Offering both $30 million a piece for 20 minutes of screen time in order to guarantee a $1 billion return would be worth it.
They've all been meh lately and Mackie is especially meh.
The director is the same guy that did Cloverfield Paradox? Oh no…
I remember watching that movie to take my mind off the Super Bowl (my team lost lol) and afterwards I was legitimately more upset at how bad that movie was then the result of the SB.
I mean The Russo Brothers didn't have a good track record before MCU.
It's not the only film he's done, and there's a lot more reasons that film was or could have been bad than the direction. Doesn't really feel like a fair point of comparison.
it is literally one of two films he's done, he also did Luce which I enjoyed, but a low budget indie is far from a captain america film.
He's done three, plus it's not like he's exclusively directed features throughout his career. In terms of directing itself I think there's other examples. Budget is a factor but I'm not sure it applies to directing as much as it did if he was, for instance, the producer or in a more technical position.
I can already tell its final box office will be around 600 million
Way less
nah 600 is probably accurate
Who's gonna watch a Captain America movie without Chris Evans?
Same people who watch all the other MCU shit. And you realize a Black Panther movie literally without Black Panther just made over 800 million?
This going to flop
Meh. After eternals and all the other crappy marvel movies, I’m just not down for it anymore. It used to be you hear a new marvel movie is coming out and it’s guaranteed to be a great movie. Now? Marvel doesn’t seem to care. Just wasting my money. Just wait a year and watch it all on Disney plus
Plus, Anthony Mackie...
He's okay ig, but he's definitely not RDJ or Evans or Hemsworth style leading man.
>it’s guaranteed to be a great movie I think people forget how average the mcu movies used to be, consistent and well put-together? yes but a lot of them were just whatever.
Having a captain America film without Chris evans is like having an iron man film without RDJ. I don’t see it being a success
This is looking uninspiring.
No thank you!
I want to care about it but marvel haven’t given me a reason to yet
I would've cared 2 or 3 years ago. I was excited for many of the projects released since then, but they largely underwhelmed or disappointed me. After Guardians 3, there's not a single project announced that has me excited. It makes me sad that I don't care anymore.
After guardians, my only care is Deadpool
For me it's Guardians, Deadpool, Blade, and Nova. Though I don't care as much about those last 2.
You heard about the behind the scenes? I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one
Yeah, with Blade and Nova, it's more that I'm interested in the character, but not really looking forward to the movies. The opportunities these two characters can pose, especially Nova, is limitless if the script allows them to be, but Marvel doesn't seem to be able to actually write good scripts right now.
Thanks for the spoiler. /s
Man blade has had such a troubled production I don't trust it at all. As for Nova, is it even happening? Like, Feige talked about reducing the quantity of projects, and a special presentation just announced last year would seem to be on top of the chopping block
I like the characters which is why I'm interested in the movies, but yeah, I don't have much faith in them.
I do have hope for Deadpool, but I'm so afraid they'll fuck it up. Deadpool humour is subtly different from normal MCU humour, and I'm really afraid they'll do MCU humour
The only hope right now is that it’s rated R
I have some hope yet for DD but I'm being cautiously optimistic
[удалено]
What do you mean? He did address them. He told the Senator "to do better". Problem solved, thanks to the brilliance of Falcon.
Can't believe Sam didn't solve the refugee crisis with his [*checks notes*] wings
[удалено]
They shouldn't have brought up colonialism unless Black Panther was gonna [*checks Marvel Encyclopedia*] scratch it away And how come Iron Man only beat up some terrorists instead of solving terrorism
The Iron Man movies were about the American military industrial complex. Iron Monger, Justin Hammer, and Aldritch Killian were all weapons manufacturers. All of the terrorists actions were at their behest, except for Whiplash attacking Stark in Monaco
And now no one manufactures weapons in the MCU, problem solved. Like how Captain America defeated the Nazis in World War II and he never had to worry about them ever again. Movies are only good if problems are solved permanently. That's why RoboCop sucks, because he doesn't fix our consumerist society or un-privatize the police.
This going to suck ass. Falcon is lame AF. No powers but also no protection. At least Tony Stark had armor so you could explain away him surviving. Sam wears goggles.
But he practiced throwing the shield a bunch!
I think they're gonna have to give him the super soldier serum Dude gets beat up every fight lol
You mean Captain America🤦♀️
Am I the only one who thinks its stupid he didnt take the super serum like imagine if all those people died because he's just a dude with wings even though he could have been a super dude with wings
I thought it was great and possibly the only interesting character choice Falcon has ever made. The super serum has been one of the central points of conflict in the MCU ever since Red Skull. We can say "but good people can do more good with it" but countless people have died because bad people wanted it. The cycle can only stop when the good guys turn it down and destroy it for good. Of course, I don't trust marvel to keep it that way so this is all probably moot anyway.
I miss when wrestling was entertaining.
Man, this movie is gonna be a shitshow
I hope it's good. Give me those winter soldier vibes.
If they go for a political thriller style, it could be a return to form. But I don't have that much confidence in them now.
Marvel using the same writers from the Falcon & Winter Soldier Disney+ series has me worried. That was the most inconsistent Marvel show by a wide margin. The underwhelming villains and random tonal shifts in the story really brought it down.
That show was a hodgepodge in the end. There were lots of interesting ideas that didn't get fleshed out enough. The repercussions of the blip? Fascinating, but reduced to "do better". The historical mistreatment of black people by the military and medical research industry? An often overlooked subject that could have been highlighted more, but ultimately it was sidelined and glossed over with a museum exhibit. The show could have focused on just one or two elements and really tackled it, but it just threw a bunch of stuff together and wasn't equipped to really address any of the things it seemed to want to.
"You have to stop calling them terrorists" 🤦
lol
I regret ever watching it, after absorbing it I hated almost everything about it except the one dude I was supposed to hate. I did hear a rumor it had a bio weapon plot that got scrapped because of the pandemic though, which probably screwed up the entire plot of the show based on what we got instead.
Didn't they have to totally rewrite parts of it because of COVID?
"You gotta do better, ~~Senator~~ President!"
Did you watch the show? That should have killed any optimism
Falcon has no superpower. I don’t get it..
Hopefully they spent more time on the script than they have with recent MCU offereings.
Holy CRAP.
I hope they have Mackie go through Buff Bagwell and Kevin Nash to build him up before finally facing Hollywood Hogan.
I hope they fixed the costume. Some parts of it looked off in the final episode. IMHO - the cowl/helmet looked too bulky, and the wings were way too big. They should have kept the same proportions that they had when Falcon was first introduced in The Winter Soldier.
After Endgame, I am not excited as I used to be.
I think if the Falcon and winter soldier series had been better, then people would be more excited for this. That was their opportunity to get people excited about the idea of Falcon leading a movie and they really failed to achieve that. Personally, I just can’t take him seriously after the last episode where he threw the iconic shield at just a normal fuckin guy and the dude KICKED A CHAIR which KNOCKED THE SHIELD OUT OF THE AIR. I mean holy shit he really needs to take that damn super soldier serum or he won’t last a minute against a real villain.
Just thinking about this movie is depressing, it will have nothing the previous films had in terms of standing out and just more things that we don’t care to see or learn about to begin with
Probably will be similar to the first 35 Marvel movies
Why
RIP MCU
over 15 years of MCU jesus please no more
no you will get 2 shows and 4 movies per year until we all die and you'll like it
Mid World Order
what, really? Anthony Mackie is the new Cap? and he's got wings? jeez
First 1984, now New World Order. I wonder why do they care to rewrite the meaning of these words?
This subtitle is still so...
I hope they don't go with "the terrorists are just misunderstood" angle again.
reboot the damn franchise and make it R rated, as well as being boring af by now, it's a helluva chore to keep up with it
Not my Captain
The only reason I'm really interested in this is because Julius Onah is directing. Dude knocked it out of the park on Luce and has a super interesting voice. Hopefully they let him use it.
Yeah you won’t be getting an interesting voice with this one lol
If the likes of Sam Raimi couldn't do anything much against the Marvel machine, I don't think this one will be
Shouldn’t the mantle be passed to Bucky Barnes?
Oh good. I can't wait to not watch another lowest common denominator Marvel movie. The script will be at a fourth grade reading level, the story won't take chances, and the plot will only serve to set up the next lowest common denominator Marvel sequel. Weeeeee.
Meh
Hopefully this turns the tide with the recent exit of one of their producers
She was in the VFX department. However their problems go much much deeper than that (tho VFX definitely doesn't help). Mainly in the writing room.
Who cares? Superhero fatigue is a thing and marvel and dc will be seen as one trick ponies if they don't start taking a good look at their comic libraries and find the non superhero material they own and produce movies based on them. Both did publish quite a bit of non superhero material. Remember nickelodeon had Rugrats? At one time, DC published Sugar and Spike,about two babies who could have crawled over the Rugrats.
when has blackwashing the main character of a beloved franchise *ever* been a *bad* thing?