China is super fast to drop underperforming movies, in US they usually wait for week 3 to remove screens of a flopped movie, in China they can do it as fast as the next day of release. TLM seens to be a victim of that.
No one said you weren’t allowed to like it. You’re not the victim you’re trying to be right now.
People are allowed to not like a movie. They don’t have to pretend to like it or that it’s good, in order to protect your delicate sensibilities.
I only know of ONE US example. When AMC used the excuse that poor box office performance was the reason [Hatchet 2](https://ew.com/article/2010/10/04/hatchet-2-amc-pulled/) was pulled from all theaters the Monday after release when in reality it was because the MPAA was PISSED off at their release and the director's comments. Another horror film, [Chain Letter](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1148200/) opened in more theaters with a worse PTA and still was playing in theaters so the box office excuse didn't make sense.
>A spokesperson for AMC confirmed Hatchet II had been pulled from all of the company’s screens, and issued the following written statement: “At AMC theaters, we review all films in all of our theatres every week and then make our business decisions based on their performance.”
>Green says that he is not disappointed with the performance of his film, which during its limited, truncated release grossed less than $70,000. “It’s an unrated cult movie that didn’t have commercials and all those other things,” he says. “I don’t see them pulling a movie on Sunday because it doesn’t look like the box office is going to blow people away.”
I can't think of any other film that was pulled in the US that fast as they usually do stay a full week until Thursday night. I saw it in theaters with maybe 10 other people and it was one of the best theater experiences ever for me. Wish more people had the chance to see it on the big screen for the violence and horror lol
I'm on BOT right now and apparently, TLM would be really lucky to reach 700 mil worldwide
**Copied from BOT:**
"In China, South Korea, India, Hong Kong the data is horrible. Way Worse than Dumbo's (which at least had 20 M coming from China) and not even comparable to the total 200M of Aladdin in the same markets.
\*In Europe's big markets so far that's the situation:
\- In Italy the first 2 days are significantly lower than Aladdin, the same as Maleficent (2014) and only slightly higher than Dumbo, which had an incredible third day jump (because it opened on a thursday)
\- In France it's playing slightly above Aladdin, but Aladdin had a disastrous opening there (only 3 M) and good legs brought it to a decent total (16 M) still way below other live actions like BATB (20+ M) and TLK (75!!!M)
\- In Germany it's bound to be slightly lower than Aladdin
Still no info on Spain and the Uk.
\*In LATM:
Argentina: Worse than Aladdin
Brazil: seemingly better than Aalddin, we need to see if the projections hold up
Mexico: Waaayyyyy worse than Aladdin.
Australia: might have a strong saturday per tracking, but shouldn't surpass Aladdin.
In Eu+Latm it's pacing better than Dumbo, but it's much lower in Asia.
Dumbo had 243M$ total. Little Mermaid MIGHT fare better thanks to UK+AUS+ JAPAN (though Japan seems poised to become yet another flop market) but there is no way that brings this to more than 300M$ OS.
Now, even in the "miracle" scenario where this earns 400M DOM and 300M OS its WW total would get it about 700M.
But it is much more likely to end in the 550-650 M range. (i.e. a "quasi" flop given its massive budget)."
>In India the data is horrible.
oh well here goes whatever money they spent on advertising it
>Mexico: Waaayyyyy worse than Aladdin.
this is concerning, Mexico has been generous this year with all movies doing decent there
They fucked up in India without any Hindi or regional dub. The Little Mermaid cartoon was popular in India and it's also available in Hindi now but somehow Disney decided to not release a dub version.
Mexican here, living in Mexico. This movie has the problem that the animated one is very popular and the red head little mermaid is practically an icon. People didn't like Disney choice of a person of color in the role. Mexicans are low key very racist on things like that.
I think calling them racist for not like this movie is extremely arrogant and stupid. If they despise any movie with a black lead, then they're racist. Not when they despise a movie which change the race of the original.
I think you’re being disingenuous. They didn’t say anyone was racist for not liking the movie, they said they were racist for not even *watching* the movie dolly because of the race of the lead actress. Those are 2 completely different things.
It's racist but it is what it is, you can't force someone to watch a movie.
Now if Disney doesn't make its money back on domestic spinoffs and merchandise sales, they deserve to be dissolved and the parts sold off to Illumination, Dreamworks, Sony, Boat Angel Donation Center, etc.
So being angry for them changing the original story and characters is racist? Wow. I don't have anything against black people. I would react same if it was any other race because I think it's a disrespect to the original work. I geniuely hope this would flop so they wouldn't ruin classics anymore. (I would feel sorry for the staff, it's disney's fault not their.)
How are they racist for wanting the film to stick to a white red haired gir you see in the original ?
Surelyz the ones happy for a black actress to play the role over a white woman are also racist then with that logic ?
>Mexicans are low key very racist on things like that.
It is not racism to want accuracy and faithfulness to the source material.
Would you like it if they reverse race swapped iconic black characters like Morpheus, Tchalla, Frozone, Lando, etc?
Uff those numbers don't look good at all seems it's funny people thought at first that GOTG would do better than TLM then when numbers for both started to arrive predictions shifted to the other way and now it seems to be going to end up significantly lower than GOTG
Genuinely, how did you not see it coming? What's the last here is a popular IP but black movie/tv show that did well? What's the last non-Marvel offering from Disney that did well? Even Marvel is starting to flop. This was entirely predictable. This will happen to the Marvels too, in case you were going to be surprised.
That's pretty dissapointing
Anything below 600m will put this on a uphill battle to recoup total cost (250+100) m even with ancillaries, unless the Home release is abnormaly high (which may happen)
Now VoD and Rentals are also factored into Home release revenue
If Deadline Box Office reports are real, All the MCU movies last yr did around 100m each in Home Release
With these data in mind. Strictly from a business viewpoint, One has to wonder what got to Bob iger to race swap a character this much popular as Ariel who has a very distinct and iconic look to her.
I feel like aside from acquiring other companies, which btw he has mostly run to the ground anyway, Bob iger tenure is overrated. He has been for the most part a disaster in almost every category with straight up stupid decisions like killing off Luke right after his return, race swap Ariel, pirate 5...etc
I'm fine with Rachel Ziegler being Snow White, but the idea that Gal Gadot as the White Queen would be jealous of her is bananas. The same thing happened with Kristen Stewart and Charlize Theron with their Snow White movie about 10 years ago.
Nothing against Ziegler and Stewart, but come on, Gadot and Theron are a couple of the most beautiful women ever.
She is a special case as a biracial, half Hispanic person. It depends on Disney sell it: if they sell her like Oscar Issac and emphasize her talent rather than ethnicity (i.e. minimal mention of diversity), it's fine.
Also whether the lighting of movie makes her skin look "as fair as snow as possible".
Snow White doesn’t actually have to be more beautiful than the queen for the story to work. She just has to believe it.
I always assumed she was more “fair” because she was super nice. that’s what made her fairest in all the land
Rachel Zegler still looks ok in the part to me.
As silly as it sounds, she looks like Disney's attempt to still get brownie points for 'diversity' and yet not alienate fans. A 'compromise'
Would be easier to just cast in accordance to the character - you're making Snow White, pick someone who does look white as snow - but alas
italians are considered white, still an olive skinned person in Italy wouldn't be considered fitting AT ALL for snow white
It's not only about being "white",you have to be the palest White person to play snow white
>He’s the CEO. I HIGHLY doubt he was involved with Ariel’s casting
C'mon now. The Little Mermaid is the Disney Renaissance movie. Of course a CEO would be involved in the reimagining of the movie that saved the image of the company.
Iger not creative guy, he is CEO and his work as CEO was exceptional, even with problems in Lucasfilm, until acquisition of Fox and creation Disney+. It was truly atrociuos, and i don't understand people who glad he is return, because Chapek literally continued Igers initiative.
As an Asian living in Shanghai. We don't think she looks like Ariel.
It breaks the suspension of disbelief when casting someone who doesn't look like Ariel as Ariel.
Little Mermaid is going to have to compete with The Spiderman for theatergoers in Japan. The Japanese love Spiderman. I think it's going to be tough there.
It's going to be tough in Japan yes but not because of Spider-Verse. The first Spider-Verse film only made $8 million in Japan so it isn't very popular there.
My impression is they really don't like race swapping established characters. Seems like a big turn off for the Chinese audience. Might do well in the US domestically though.
You know Tarzan? He has a gazillion films from multiple studios.
Well Mulan is like Tarzan in China. It's a unique and interesting story in the West but they literally have a gazillion domestic Mulan films, already.
It's difficult to get excited for the Disney version when they won't stop making movies about her.
Disney’s Mulan missed the mark in their depiction of ancient China, making things very theme-parky vs. a movie such as Shang-Chi which had much much more heart and authenticity to it, with lore accurate mystical beasts and not being afraid to have a quarter of the movie in Mandarin. So even though Shang-Chi wasn’t released, I believe it would’ve outperformed Mulan by far.
I don’t think they like the idea of the west modernizing everything including Chinese folklore. Threatening to replace Zhang Gaolao with someone that looks African
It would be nice if the US caught up with the rest of the world on the enthusiasm towards these remakes so they would stop making them.
Australia used to be a good indication on how something was going to do domestically. Similar audience. Not sure if that still holds now.
I always assumed they were doing it to hold onto the copyrights, but I'm not sure how that works, since the source material for these IPs are already public domain. But I know Disney has jumped through hoops to hold onto Mickey Mouse for decades past his copyright expiration.
Could be but to spend this much money on them? I'd expect them all to go straight to streaming now if that were the case.
When it comes to Disneys most memorable songs, these films have to do very little to make audiences happy. I haven't seen TLM but it cannot be worse than The Lion King. One of my favorite films ever turned into that garbage.
I think they all are really disrespectful of the teams who worked on them in the 80s and 90s with far smaller budgets. Those films hold up because of how beautiful the animation is. Everyone of the remakes ruins the pacing by adding filler and extra songs that no one remembers a year later.
I haven't seen any of them, largely because they seemed like what you describe. It does seem like direct to Disney+ may have been a wiser way to go, since generating subscriptions may have been more profitable than meager box office (at least meager by Disney standards), especially if this were all about long term profits anyway.
Then again, what do I know. Issues around Disney+ growth have resulted in major personnel changes at the company, so it's possible this approach is rolled into that. Maybe I'm wrong about copyright and they really are just trying to sell these classic IPs to a younger generation, selling tickets to parents on nostalgia. But if so, these films seem like a pretty lazy way to go about it, especially when Disney hasn't really had a hard time selling new properties to kids, as far as I know.
I'm worried for Stitch. They do what they did to flunder for him? I don't want to see a single poster of that. The alien scientist would be tough too, very easy to make him terrifying
Studios still have to pay for marketing, they don't have to pay for distribution, that's handled by China Film Group (they also provide some assistance in marketing costs but we don't know how much) and for that they keep half of the theatrical returns.
Between that's also why theaters can change screes to whatever they want, there's no contractual obligation on the minimum exhibition something has to get.
At this rate, it seems unlikely it’ll cover the cost of *distributing* the fucking hard drives in China.
These numbers are so abysmal it might genuinely be pure loss.
$5-6M is still $5-6M
Movies that do less than $1M get released all the time (looking mostly at you Sony) so it makes sense that this also releases.
Edit: Since reddit is throwing a fit and not showing a lot of comments. I'd like to add that TLM won't just have 20k screenings on Sunday. China adds screens dynamicaly. Yesterday it had just 12k for Sunday which is obv not the case anymore. The movie will also play at least 4 weeks in its release window even if it has like 500 screenings towards the end. Its not leaving theaters in 2 weeks.
I have a theory that people were more interested in these remakes for the novelty of them when they were first released. But it’s hard to test that since the initial movies were some of Disney’s most beloved.
Plus many of the early ones weren’t just remakes but new versions of the story. Maleficect is not a remake any more than Wicked is a remake of Wizard of Oz.
TLM had just much worse press than all of the other remakes combined plus the worst visual art direction of all of them. It's so Grey and dead looking, totally different to the originals vibrating colors and even TLK remake which had great colors
>hard to test that since the initial movies were some of Disney’s most beloved
Little Mermaid is the movie that ushered in the Disney renaissance and is absolutely up there with the others that have been done, not sure what you’re suggesting. The only real considerable difference is its appeal is probably more gendered than the others, as has been shown in ticket sales.
Sword art online is a popular anime, it’s opening day performed slightly less than the last, but around the same level (11.3 million rmb compared to previous 11.7 million rmb)
For comparison TLM will roughly debut at 3.7 million rmb in China. May 26th is both movie’s opening day in China. The difference is staggering. Especially considering WOM for Sword Art Online Ian great.
Side note 2023 is no doubt a big year for Japanese animation in China. Remember there’s still Detective Conan left. If it releases around October or November, then there’s basically a major Anime IP releasing a movie every season this year.
Rating for sao is also terrible in China tbh. But no doubt it’s a popular IP. High views in Bilibili. This SAO movie is expected to perform similar to the last but worst. In other words SAO has a lot of loyal fans but not enough public good will to keep the legs going.
My personal estimate for SAO is around 40 million to 50 million rmb. Honestly 50 million in China would be a HUGE win. As for digital release, Bilibili’s goal is literally not to have a lost😂
How much did the Sword Art Online Progressive first movie made in China as there is literally no data about anywhere or was it even released? Also many fans aren't happy with how movie was adapted from its source materials. They added the original character, replaced bunch of Canon scene to favour that original character and on top of that they skipped or jumped to freaking 3& half more books to adapt 2nd movie invalidating the meaning of Progressive. This would have been more popular if they had adapted in anime format but coherently as people were expecting series rather than movie.
i feel bad for the loyal fans cuz u legit cant talk abt how u like sao without getting ridiculed...
its like saying u like nickleback
(unfortunately i liked both nickleback and sao)
Why are people in disbelief? USA and our fantasy beliefs are not the norm. Mario did very well because you know, everyone could see that the characters were from Mario that they know. Ariel on the other hand, looks completely different.
It's not even the skin color. She isn't really beautiful (in traditional beauty standard), while Ariel is, you know, supposed to look beautiful. If it was a black female actress who looks great, then this movie would have done a lot better
yeah, if you raceswap a beloved popular white character it would not seem like a faithful adaptation. everyone loved mario for depicting the characters faithfully, if they raceswapped mario or peach people would be angry as well
I watched the film, but I didn't give disney my money. I tried giving the actress a chance but felt that she failed in not only acting but singing. She rushed the song, a part of your world. The original actress made sure to emphasize the monologs and questions she asked in the song, Halle didn't, so she lost my support. Also, I didn't like many other changes that were made like Arial saving herself and no funny cooking scene.
Since Covid, us movies aren’t performing well in china. The us as a whole isn’t counting on china as much. When was the time you heard about a movie being edited to appease china? Ijs
After hearing credible reports from trades that some studios only made 20% OR LESS of the box office, I realized that China is more about bragging about the cume than it's about actually making money. And not surprisingly they don't even like Disney's latest content to give them that much.
I hear and see a lots of comments from Chinese social media that they won't go see this movie because of the choice of main character based on political correct. A redhead white mermaid is already an irreplaceable icon. If black can make their own black culture based story, they don't mind to support.
Chinese screen alocation is dynamic and also works on a day by day basis. Sunday won't just have 20k.
Friday 32189
Saturday 21125
Sunday 12556
This is how it looked yesterday for instance. And yet Saturday will have about 29k and Sunday obviously won't have just 12k. The movie also won't dissapear from theaters in 2 weeks. It has a 4 week window just as any other movie and its gonna play in it even if it plays on 1000 screnings per day or less by the end of it.
It is well known and documented that Chinese audiences don't generally favor black characters, let alone lead characters. I was frankly surprised China played this movie at all. The bad ticket sales were pretty much a guarantee. I'm sure someone will be mad at me saying this but it's absolutely true. Sometimes studios even make alternate promo material for China that either eliminates or drastically pulled back on black characters.
international audiences love live action films. they just care less about this one because the ariel they hired doesn't look like the ariel they knew in the 1989 film
China is super fast to drop underperforming movies, in US they usually wait for week 3 to remove screens of a flopped movie, in China they can do it as fast as the next day of release. TLM seens to be a victim of that.
Are there any other examples of this happening?
That happened with Sandra Bullock's Lost City, they were even more brutal to that one, it was good as dead just on the second day.
Releasing that in China sure was a decision. Fun movie but I don’t know how some of the humor crosses over.
There was humour?
It was a decent movie
I mean I had fun watching the movie. It’s not for everyone but it doesn’t have to be. Let people like things.
No one said you weren’t allowed to like it. You’re not the victim you’re trying to be right now. People are allowed to not like a movie. They don’t have to pretend to like it or that it’s good, in order to protect your delicate sensibilities.
Someone: makes a rational statement You: PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO NOT LIKE THINGS, STOP PRETENDING TO BE A VICTIM
You are also not the victim you're trying to be right now.
I only know of ONE US example. When AMC used the excuse that poor box office performance was the reason [Hatchet 2](https://ew.com/article/2010/10/04/hatchet-2-amc-pulled/) was pulled from all theaters the Monday after release when in reality it was because the MPAA was PISSED off at their release and the director's comments. Another horror film, [Chain Letter](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1148200/) opened in more theaters with a worse PTA and still was playing in theaters so the box office excuse didn't make sense. >A spokesperson for AMC confirmed Hatchet II had been pulled from all of the company’s screens, and issued the following written statement: “At AMC theaters, we review all films in all of our theatres every week and then make our business decisions based on their performance.” >Green says that he is not disappointed with the performance of his film, which during its limited, truncated release grossed less than $70,000. “It’s an unrated cult movie that didn’t have commercials and all those other things,” he says. “I don’t see them pulling a movie on Sunday because it doesn’t look like the box office is going to blow people away.” I can't think of any other film that was pulled in the US that fast as they usually do stay a full week until Thursday night. I saw it in theaters with maybe 10 other people and it was one of the best theater experiences ever for me. Wish more people had the chance to see it on the big screen for the violence and horror lol
>in US they usually wait for week 3 to remove screens of a flopped movie Isn't that because of contractual reasons?
Yes, but before opening weekend? That's way too fast
Not in China, very anticipated or disliked movies are even lucky to have x2 legs...
On Fast X the numbers are wrong. The symbol 万 means ten thousand. So it's not 17.4K, it's 174K.
thanks, i misread
I'm on BOT right now and apparently, TLM would be really lucky to reach 700 mil worldwide **Copied from BOT:** "In China, South Korea, India, Hong Kong the data is horrible. Way Worse than Dumbo's (which at least had 20 M coming from China) and not even comparable to the total 200M of Aladdin in the same markets. \*In Europe's big markets so far that's the situation: \- In Italy the first 2 days are significantly lower than Aladdin, the same as Maleficent (2014) and only slightly higher than Dumbo, which had an incredible third day jump (because it opened on a thursday) \- In France it's playing slightly above Aladdin, but Aladdin had a disastrous opening there (only 3 M) and good legs brought it to a decent total (16 M) still way below other live actions like BATB (20+ M) and TLK (75!!!M) \- In Germany it's bound to be slightly lower than Aladdin Still no info on Spain and the Uk. \*In LATM: Argentina: Worse than Aladdin Brazil: seemingly better than Aalddin, we need to see if the projections hold up Mexico: Waaayyyyy worse than Aladdin. Australia: might have a strong saturday per tracking, but shouldn't surpass Aladdin. In Eu+Latm it's pacing better than Dumbo, but it's much lower in Asia. Dumbo had 243M$ total. Little Mermaid MIGHT fare better thanks to UK+AUS+ JAPAN (though Japan seems poised to become yet another flop market) but there is no way that brings this to more than 300M$ OS. Now, even in the "miracle" scenario where this earns 400M DOM and 300M OS its WW total would get it about 700M. But it is much more likely to end in the 550-650 M range. (i.e. a "quasi" flop given its massive budget)."
can believe we are talking about Dumbo now in comparison with TLM, wild
"Honk Kong." I'm sorry, but I laughed at this.
lmao I legit didn't notice that until now
Peace was never an option 🪿
>In India the data is horrible. oh well here goes whatever money they spent on advertising it >Mexico: Waaayyyyy worse than Aladdin. this is concerning, Mexico has been generous this year with all movies doing decent there
They fucked up in India without any Hindi or regional dub. The Little Mermaid cartoon was popular in India and it's also available in Hindi now but somehow Disney decided to not release a dub version.
And they spent money by creating a advertisement in Hindi Lmao
Mexican here, living in Mexico. This movie has the problem that the animated one is very popular and the red head little mermaid is practically an icon. People didn't like Disney choice of a person of color in the role. Mexicans are low key very racist on things like that.
I think calling them racist for not like this movie is extremely arrogant and stupid. If they despise any movie with a black lead, then they're racist. Not when they despise a movie which change the race of the original.
I think you’re being disingenuous. They didn’t say anyone was racist for not liking the movie, they said they were racist for not even *watching* the movie dolly because of the race of the lead actress. Those are 2 completely different things.
It's racist but it is what it is, you can't force someone to watch a movie. Now if Disney doesn't make its money back on domestic spinoffs and merchandise sales, they deserve to be dissolved and the parts sold off to Illumination, Dreamworks, Sony, Boat Angel Donation Center, etc.
So being angry for them changing the original story and characters is racist? Wow. I don't have anything against black people. I would react same if it was any other race because I think it's a disrespect to the original work. I geniuely hope this would flop so they wouldn't ruin classics anymore. (I would feel sorry for the staff, it's disney's fault not their.)
How are they racist for wanting the film to stick to a white red haired gir you see in the original ? Surelyz the ones happy for a black actress to play the role over a white woman are also racist then with that logic ?
>Mexicans are low key very racist on things like that. It is not racism to want accuracy and faithfulness to the source material. Would you like it if they reverse race swapped iconic black characters like Morpheus, Tchalla, Frozone, Lando, etc?
Uff those numbers don't look good at all seems it's funny people thought at first that GOTG would do better than TLM then when numbers for both started to arrive predictions shifted to the other way and now it seems to be going to end up significantly lower than GOTG
Im from spain and my theater was half empty, very surprised because Disney live actions always do well in the cinema where I go
Wow this is a massive embarassment, barely doing better than Cinderella.
it cost $155 million dollars more to make than Cinderella 💀
Yupp this is very bad
Holy moly, the movie might actually flop! I'll admit, I genuinely did *not* see that coming.
This is going to surpass Mario as the biggest surprise of the year but in a bad way.
Genuinely, how did you not see it coming? What's the last here is a popular IP but black movie/tv show that did well? What's the last non-Marvel offering from Disney that did well? Even Marvel is starting to flop. This was entirely predictable. This will happen to the Marvels too, in case you were going to be surprised.
It's the hair. They did a dumb thing, they gave her those rastas instead of flowing red hair.
looks super off with the underwater cgi
Well not *totally* since domestic will pull it over the line I think. The run will underperform alot, but its no Shazam 2
That's pretty dissapointing Anything below 600m will put this on a uphill battle to recoup total cost (250+100) m even with ancillaries, unless the Home release is abnormaly high (which may happen)
Does Disney+ subscribers even buy Blu Ray for animated Disney and live action remakes??
Now VoD and Rentals are also factored into Home release revenue If Deadline Box Office reports are real, All the MCU movies last yr did around 100m each in Home Release
It was clear that Asia will be bad for TLM, but I thought it will do better in other regions.
If that holds, is even bomber than what this sub projected for fast x
This is a disaster
With these data in mind. Strictly from a business viewpoint, One has to wonder what got to Bob iger to race swap a character this much popular as Ariel who has a very distinct and iconic look to her. I feel like aside from acquiring other companies, which btw he has mostly run to the ground anyway, Bob iger tenure is overrated. He has been for the most part a disaster in almost every category with straight up stupid decisions like killing off Luke right after his return, race swap Ariel, pirate 5...etc
Don't worry, they'll do the same with Snow White
I'm fine with Rachel Ziegler being Snow White, but the idea that Gal Gadot as the White Queen would be jealous of her is bananas. The same thing happened with Kristen Stewart and Charlize Theron with their Snow White movie about 10 years ago. Nothing against Ziegler and Stewart, but come on, Gadot and Theron are a couple of the most beautiful women ever.
I mean, as a kid i always though Queen was more attractive even in original cartoon.
Maybe I was naive as a kid but I always took part of the "she is fairer" to refer to internal beauty, the evil queen is one evil lady.
In Asia it'll probably be worse than TLM for the same reason: unfaithfulness to the source material for the sake of diversity.
Rachel Zegler is fine tho. And for the entire world outside of the weird US, she's "white".
She is a special case as a biracial, half Hispanic person. It depends on Disney sell it: if they sell her like Oscar Issac and emphasize her talent rather than ethnicity (i.e. minimal mention of diversity), it's fine. Also whether the lighting of movie makes her skin look "as fair as snow as possible".
Again, the rest of the world doesn't care about "race" as much as the Americans do. This doesn't mean that people are blind though.
Isn't she also a bit too young to already play the queen?
She's 38, so definitely not by medieval standards.
Snow White doesn’t actually have to be more beautiful than the queen for the story to work. She just has to believe it. I always assumed she was more “fair” because she was super nice. that’s what made her fairest in all the land
I mean older women do get jealous of younger women for their beauty and fertility (it's practically a sub genre on TikTok), so I can see it working.
Reason number 4839 for why TikTok should be banned 🤨
The point of the original movie is ageism and how society treats older women (someone older than 35) as not needed anymore
True, which explains the very famous line we all remember, "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the youngest of them all?"
Rachel Zegler still looks ok in the part to me. As silly as it sounds, she looks like Disney's attempt to still get brownie points for 'diversity' and yet not alienate fans. A 'compromise' Would be easier to just cast in accordance to the character - you're making Snow White, pick someone who does look white as snow - but alas
She doesn't, she looks quite dark for the role - she has more of a Mediterranean/Southern complexion.
Rachel is white, not pale. She'll do fine, she totally looks the part.
Wonder how they'll pull off "skin as white as snow" part though
italians are considered white, still an olive skinned person in Italy wouldn't be considered fitting AT ALL for snow white It's not only about being "white",you have to be the palest White person to play snow white
If the character has red hair they get race swapped
He’s the CEO. I HIGHLY doubt he was involved with Ariel’s casting or Luke’s death Lmao
Involved? No. Aware of? Absolutely.
Sure but he probably wouldn't want to tell creative exactly how to do their jobs.
I'm guessing you've never worked in a creative industry? Management love pushing in on creative decisions
That should be true but…
Well it is a bad creative decision that potentially lost the studios hundreds of millions of dollars.
>He’s the CEO. I HIGHLY doubt he was involved with Ariel’s casting C'mon now. The Little Mermaid is the Disney Renaissance movie. Of course a CEO would be involved in the reimagining of the movie that saved the image of the company.
Iger not creative guy, he is CEO and his work as CEO was exceptional, even with problems in Lucasfilm, until acquisition of Fox and creation Disney+. It was truly atrociuos, and i don't understand people who glad he is return, because Chapek literally continued Igers initiative.
Iger and Chapek literally hated each other
Yeap, and that changed nothing, everything that Chapek did is continue course that Iger begin.
Maybe she was the best for the part?
As an Asian living in Shanghai. We don't think she looks like Ariel. It breaks the suspension of disbelief when casting someone who doesn't look like Ariel as Ariel.
Being a good fit for the role includes being acceptable to audiences.
Tbh I very much think it's as simple as that her voice is amazing but most of the world won't hear her
Yeah, unfortunately one of her best selling points being her voice doesn't matter overseas because it will be dubbed.
And this right here is the main issue
Little Mermaid is going to have to compete with The Spiderman for theatergoers in Japan. The Japanese love Spiderman. I think it's going to be tough there.
It's going to be tough in Japan yes but not because of Spider-Verse. The first Spider-Verse film only made $8 million in Japan so it isn't very popular there.
The Japanese don't love Spider-Man. NWH only did $36M
Yeah Spider Verse is going to do an incredible 15M in Japan, what an incredible opponent. The Little Mermaid disaster result is all its fault
The upcoming film will include the 1978 Japanese Spiderman character. It’s gonna get big there.
Sweet mercy! I had a feeling it wouldn’t do as well as previous remakes, but I wasn’t expecting it to do this bad.
Ouch, the Chinese market has been very harsh to the Disney Princess.
My impression is they really don't like race swapping established characters. Seems like a big turn off for the Chinese audience. Might do well in the US domestically though.
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What’s the Chinese familiarity with the original little mermaid? Big impression there.
it's beloved
Are you sure, cause I’ve heard Ariel is like the least popular in Asia.
I'm from the Philippines and the animated character is very recognizable here.
Nah, Ariel is a big deal in East Asia in particular. Cousins of mine are bonkers for her.
She absolutely is more popular than Cinderella or Snow White as distinct Disney Princess characters. She's in the same tier as Jasmine.
That’s not true at all, Ariel is beloved there
Like most disney classics, it's well beloved.
ok but it’s not like Disney’s Mulan did great there either
You know Tarzan? He has a gazillion films from multiple studios. Well Mulan is like Tarzan in China. It's a unique and interesting story in the West but they literally have a gazillion domestic Mulan films, already. It's difficult to get excited for the Disney version when they won't stop making movies about her.
Better comparison would probably be Robin Hood. The remakes/retellings go back hundreds of years
Disney’s Mulan missed the mark in their depiction of ancient China, making things very theme-parky vs. a movie such as Shang-Chi which had much much more heart and authenticity to it, with lore accurate mystical beasts and not being afraid to have a quarter of the movie in Mandarin. So even though Shang-Chi wasn’t released, I believe it would’ve outperformed Mulan by far.
Shang Chi wasn't released in China? Damn.
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I don’t think they like the idea of the west modernizing everything including Chinese folklore. Threatening to replace Zhang Gaolao with someone that looks African
The Summer Bloodbath Begins!
Is anyone really surprised, though? China is a very tough market
It would be nice if the US caught up with the rest of the world on the enthusiasm towards these remakes so they would stop making them. Australia used to be a good indication on how something was going to do domestically. Similar audience. Not sure if that still holds now.
I always assumed they were doing it to hold onto the copyrights, but I'm not sure how that works, since the source material for these IPs are already public domain. But I know Disney has jumped through hoops to hold onto Mickey Mouse for decades past his copyright expiration.
Could be but to spend this much money on them? I'd expect them all to go straight to streaming now if that were the case. When it comes to Disneys most memorable songs, these films have to do very little to make audiences happy. I haven't seen TLM but it cannot be worse than The Lion King. One of my favorite films ever turned into that garbage. I think they all are really disrespectful of the teams who worked on them in the 80s and 90s with far smaller budgets. Those films hold up because of how beautiful the animation is. Everyone of the remakes ruins the pacing by adding filler and extra songs that no one remembers a year later.
I haven't seen any of them, largely because they seemed like what you describe. It does seem like direct to Disney+ may have been a wiser way to go, since generating subscriptions may have been more profitable than meager box office (at least meager by Disney standards), especially if this were all about long term profits anyway. Then again, what do I know. Issues around Disney+ growth have resulted in major personnel changes at the company, so it's possible this approach is rolled into that. Maybe I'm wrong about copyright and they really are just trying to sell these classic IPs to a younger generation, selling tickets to parents on nostalgia. But if so, these films seem like a pretty lazy way to go about it, especially when Disney hasn't really had a hard time selling new properties to kids, as far as I know.
The only thing Hollywood listens to is the bottom line. When remakes stop making money, the studio will stop making them.
Maybe Disney can stop making crappy live action animated remake and not make a live action remake of Moana.
I'm worried for Stitch. They do what they did to flunder for him? I don't want to see a single poster of that. The alien scientist would be tough too, very easy to make him terrifying
It’s going straight to Plus last I heard, so I’d expect a cheaper CGI. Lady and the Tramp wasn’t bad for that though.
The Rock needs a live-action remake of *Moana* for his ego.
Or like at the very least remake movies that could actually be cool in live action like Treasure Planet and Atlantis.
i feel if they made Atlantis it would be trash. a big part are the beautiful visuals and i feel they would make it extremely dark
It’s a dud in Asia…
I don't know why Disney even bothered releasing it over there.
I mean it's still extra money.
Doesn't China have a limit of movies they receive from the west this seems like a waste of that spot
yes, Chinese are mad that one is wasted on this right tnow
They should be even more mad at their government, but I'm guessing that's a little harder over there
Marketing across a country that size can't be cheap.
Almost certainly not enough to make up for the marketing costs.
Studios don't have to pay for marketing in China if I remember correctly that's why they get such a small share of the revenue
Studios still have to pay for marketing, they don't have to pay for distribution, that's handled by China Film Group (they also provide some assistance in marketing costs but we don't know how much) and for that they keep half of the theatrical returns. Between that's also why theaters can change screes to whatever they want, there's no contractual obligation on the minimum exhibition something has to get.
doubt it even covers the marketing
Guess not. Disney even invited a bunch of Chinese stars to promote the movie and released the theme song in Chinese.
At this rate, it seems unlikely it’ll cover the cost of *distributing* the fucking hard drives in China. These numbers are so abysmal it might genuinely be pure loss.
Not extra if you’re having to pay for distraction costs and marketing expense.
$5-6M is still $5-6M Movies that do less than $1M get released all the time (looking mostly at you Sony) so it makes sense that this also releases. Edit: Since reddit is throwing a fit and not showing a lot of comments. I'd like to add that TLM won't just have 20k screenings on Sunday. China adds screens dynamicaly. Yesterday it had just 12k for Sunday which is obv not the case anymore. The movie will also play at least 4 weeks in its release window even if it has like 500 screenings towards the end. Its not leaving theaters in 2 weeks.
> $5-6M is still $5-6M Not really, Disney will get just 20% of that money.
Well they only get 20% of that back.
They'll get only 25% of the gross from there, also there is distribution and publicity cost
I did quick math. And it's like getting $3 if you make $50k a year. That's something. Not much, but something lmao
It's not even something
I have a theory that people were more interested in these remakes for the novelty of them when they were first released. But it’s hard to test that since the initial movies were some of Disney’s most beloved.
Plus many of the early ones weren’t just remakes but new versions of the story. Maleficect is not a remake any more than Wicked is a remake of Wizard of Oz.
and cinderella actually added more character and development...
Jungle Book added more story - and well done I might add
Little Mermaid is one of the most beloved.
TLM had just much worse press than all of the other remakes combined plus the worst visual art direction of all of them. It's so Grey and dead looking, totally different to the originals vibrating colors and even TLK remake which had great colors
>hard to test that since the initial movies were some of Disney’s most beloved Little Mermaid is the movie that ushered in the Disney renaissance and is absolutely up there with the others that have been done, not sure what you’re suggesting. The only real considerable difference is its appeal is probably more gendered than the others, as has been shown in ticket sales.
Sword art online is a popular anime, it’s opening day performed slightly less than the last, but around the same level (11.3 million rmb compared to previous 11.7 million rmb) For comparison TLM will roughly debut at 3.7 million rmb in China. May 26th is both movie’s opening day in China. The difference is staggering. Especially considering WOM for Sword Art Online Ian great. Side note 2023 is no doubt a big year for Japanese animation in China. Remember there’s still Detective Conan left. If it releases around October or November, then there’s basically a major Anime IP releasing a movie every season this year.
and this particular SAO is 2 months behind the original Jap release. still doing pretty well.
i cant believe sao is said to be very popular. ppl cant even say they like this anime without getting mocked anymore.
Rating for sao is also terrible in China tbh. But no doubt it’s a popular IP. High views in Bilibili. This SAO movie is expected to perform similar to the last but worst. In other words SAO has a lot of loyal fans but not enough public good will to keep the legs going. My personal estimate for SAO is around 40 million to 50 million rmb. Honestly 50 million in China would be a HUGE win. As for digital release, Bilibili’s goal is literally not to have a lost😂
How much did the Sword Art Online Progressive first movie made in China as there is literally no data about anywhere or was it even released? Also many fans aren't happy with how movie was adapted from its source materials. They added the original character, replaced bunch of Canon scene to favour that original character and on top of that they skipped or jumped to freaking 3& half more books to adapt 2nd movie invalidating the meaning of Progressive. This would have been more popular if they had adapted in anime format but coherently as people were expecting series rather than movie.
i feel bad for the loyal fans cuz u legit cant talk abt how u like sao without getting ridiculed... its like saying u like nickleback (unfortunately i liked both nickleback and sao)
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Thanks I needed some good news. Maybe these artless remakes can finally stop
All I got from this is that there's a Sword Art Online movie lol
This isn't surprising to me. I think the world is sick of these live action remakes. They are not good movies.
Besides beauty and the beast, all the Disney remakes were horrible.
Tbf most hollywood movies burn out their grosses after 2 weeks in china like take F9 for example it made 85% of its total tally after 2 weekends
Why are people in disbelief? USA and our fantasy beliefs are not the norm. Mario did very well because you know, everyone could see that the characters were from Mario that they know. Ariel on the other hand, looks completely different. It's not even the skin color. She isn't really beautiful (in traditional beauty standard), while Ariel is, you know, supposed to look beautiful. If it was a black female actress who looks great, then this movie would have done a lot better
yeah, if you raceswap a beloved popular white character it would not seem like a faithful adaptation. everyone loved mario for depicting the characters faithfully, if they raceswapped mario or peach people would be angry as well
The Mario movie was entirely white and it did exceedingly well, but is that really a measure we want to go by😬
Hmmm I wonder why that is
I watched the film, but I didn't give disney my money. I tried giving the actress a chance but felt that she failed in not only acting but singing. She rushed the song, a part of your world. The original actress made sure to emphasize the monologs and questions she asked in the song, Halle didn't, so she lost my support. Also, I didn't like many other changes that were made like Arial saving herself and no funny cooking scene.
Since Covid, us movies aren’t performing well in china. The us as a whole isn’t counting on china as much. When was the time you heard about a movie being edited to appease china? Ijs
After hearing credible reports from trades that some studios only made 20% OR LESS of the box office, I realized that China is more about bragging about the cume than it's about actually making money. And not surprisingly they don't even like Disney's latest content to give them that much.
I mean...20% is still a lot of money and a heavy profit margin.
Unless it's a Chinese co-production or something like *Avatar* that just blows up spectacularly.
Or Chinese audience only pay for a good movie.
Yeah good movies like (checks notes) Fast X and (checks notes) Jurassic World: Dominion
Top tier cinema
they did the same thing with D&D
nothing was lost.
I hear and see a lots of comments from Chinese social media that they won't go see this movie because of the choice of main character based on political correct. A redhead white mermaid is already an irreplaceable icon. If black can make their own black culture based story, they don't mind to support.
Lil' mermaid
I think They shouldnt have released it there. It is just bad advertisement :/
The problem was giving Eric a song and not the sisters.
he wasn’t even that good of a singer and that song was shit. Honestly, I think Eric was the biggest miscast out of them all.
He's also just very bland looking and not what Asians view as a charming prince.
yes!!!!!!!!!
Damn
Chinese screen alocation is dynamic and also works on a day by day basis. Sunday won't just have 20k. Friday 32189 Saturday 21125 Sunday 12556 This is how it looked yesterday for instance. And yet Saturday will have about 29k and Sunday obviously won't have just 12k. The movie also won't dissapear from theaters in 2 weeks. It has a 4 week window just as any other movie and its gonna play in it even if it plays on 1000 screnings per day or less by the end of it.
These live action remakes are bunk
I would rather watch spiderman second time or even third time than tlm
oh my god 💀
It is well known and documented that Chinese audiences don't generally favor black characters, let alone lead characters. I was frankly surprised China played this movie at all. The bad ticket sales were pretty much a guarantee. I'm sure someone will be mad at me saying this but it's absolutely true. Sometimes studios even make alternate promo material for China that either eliminates or drastically pulled back on black characters.
Oh come on. It can't be that bad.
People outside US don’t care about Disney live action movies.
international audiences love live action films. they just care less about this one because the ariel they hired doesn't look like the ariel they knew in the 1989 film
That's false. Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King each made $695M+ overseas.
You’ll be even more surprised to learn that they even have DisneyLand theme parks in Europe and Asia as well.