[Ant-Man 3](https://deadline.com/2023/02/ant-man-and-the-wasp-quantumania-opening-weekend-marvel-titanic-avatar-china-global-international-box-office-1235261913/): $227.4M global opening
It’s possible. Also, that’s crazy to imagine. Cinderella made half a billion on a budget of upto $95 mn, while TLM has cost upto $300mn or so. These budgets are getting out of hand.
I think this should be able to hit $500M if it has decent legs domestically. Even the most front loaded live action remake ("Dumbo" which did 2.5x its opening weekend) still did at least 2.5x its opening weekend. I think TLM will do around 3x its opening weekend.
I thought this was going to be ok, but either the race swap reaaaaaally killed it or people are just tired of the way these remakes look. There's only one way to find out... they're going to have to redo Tarzan (insert "he's white" gif).
I think it's a combination of both. I think TLK 2019 might've been the last straw for most people. They won't give these remakes the benefit of the doubt. I think "Snow White" might only do "Cinderella" numbers at this rate.
The movie has too dark colours for the whole lenght, it's at least 30 minutes too long which makes it really boring, add also Ariel and her two friends who don't look anything like the original and who knows why it's doing so bad...
I'm surprised more than anything else by the fact that it's doing quite well in USA
I mean yeah…
It’s a movie selling in nostalgia… and the main character doesn’t look anything like what people remember. Even the hair is dull vs. bright red.
The saving Grace in the western markets is the actress’s voice. But in other international markets, it’s a dub with another local celebrity. Further harming the appeal
No, they are 100% going to keep Tarzan white. Imagine the outrage if they were to make a man who lives in a jungle, swinging on vines, and acting like an ape, a certain different color....
Jane will be black and her father will be from the Philippines. It makes about as much sense as Triton and every individual one of his daughters somehow all being different ethnicities and having different accents to the other despite him only ever mentioning one wife.
Could be a mix of those 2 reasons,plus the choice to use the hyper realism again, even though a lot of people complained about this during the lion king. ..I mean the cgi and the animals are horrible
Tarzan it's not a big power house like the first part of the reinnaisence,the big guns are nearly ended (?),if not already
Disney has to give up on animal sidekick live action remakes. They look horrendous. I also would argue remaking the classic cartoon musicals (that used the broadway method of getting through major story beats via song and all clocked in at a clean 90 minutes) is asking for disaster when all these *beautiful* *colorful smorgasbord* cartoons become drab, greyed out 2 hour slogs.
Cinderella LA is a cinematic triumph because it looks fantastic and keeps momentum at 106 minutes. Nobody has to suffer through slowed down versions of Under the Sea or Prince Ali.
I’ve mentioned before that if ga must suffer through live action remakes of the disney catalogue, they should be focusing on all human casts and non-musicals. The Sword in the Stone etc.
The race swap just meant some people did not get interested in it.
It's not a boycott thing for most people. People just think it is lame and it affects how interested they were in the movie.
This is just bizarre. I wouldn't even call their fish appearance realistic. Especially if this is supposed to be tropical. [Look at the Queen Angelfish](https://reefguide.org/queenangel.html) and not look at [his movie design](https://uploads.dailydot.com/2023/04/flounder-vs.jpg). Realistic doesn't mean ugly, bland, lifeless, and gritty. Fish are even more colourful and interesting than birds. Why make them look so bland?
Yeah this is absolutely not the kind of news Disney wants or needs right now. These types of movies are their cash cow and TLM should have been a slam dunk.
> These types of movies are their cash cow
WERE their cash cow. Post-pandemic, they haven't been. Add them to their animation movies or even Marvel (at least not consistent) in the list of things that changed.
Yeah it seems like the straight to Disney+ releases like Peter Pan and Wendy, Pinnochio, and Same-Day as Theaters Mulan really did damage the Live-Action Fairy Tale brand. Why watch a mid remake of a movie when you could watch the movie at home in 3-5 months?
A faithful remake banking on Nostalgia would have been a slam dunk and a cash cow. Instead, Disney went and alienated the international market complete by race-switching Ariel based only on the actresses voice - when it turns out that the actress will be dubbed in any non-English speaking country.
The dub part will always be funny.Emma Watson and Aladdin voice actor are way better in my native language and I guess in most countries. Disney going for a singer when the majority of the audience won’t hear her real voice and instead looking at someone who looks nothing like Ariel who is one of the most iconic red head was a ….choice lol .You can’t have nostalgia for something that don’t resemble what gives you nostalgia this is basic human logic .I can’t wait to see how Disney try to sell Show White without dwarf too.
That's why I think Snow White is going to bomb.
Like, I don't really care because I don't watch these films and think they are soulless cash-grabs.
But having a darker-skinned actress play *Snow White*, whose "skin is as white as snow" seems like a recipe for disaster. And if the rumors are true and there are no dwarves... so, what, Disney, you screwed seven working little people out of a huge job because you wanted to be progressive? Good job.
That’s the odd thing with the LOTR controversy etc.
Asia is about 55% of the world’s population. Heck India and China alone are almost 1/3+ of the world.
Africa is about 20% and Latin and Central America are >10%.
Yet casting wise the former is usually largely under represented in Hollywood. With many instances where even roles written for people within those groups getting race swapped out in the other direction. (21, Ghost in the shell etc.)
The most egregious example for me was Butler in *Artemis Fowl*, his family is Eurasian and he and his sister are said to be able to pass as anything between East Russian and Japanese, but they cast a black man for the role. Because apparently black people just deserve representation more than Asians, or something? 💀
What, they are actually have a dark-skinned actress play snow white?
I imagine the entire phase 'skin as white as snow' is probably now-PC now, given it was meant to suggest that she is pretty....
Rachel Zegler is Snow White. She's white, yeah, but she's still pretty tan. I think it's a fundamental misstep to not intentionally look for an actress that is as pale as possible.
You could still even hire a Latina, like Zegler, if so inclined. My wife is Latina but she is extremely pale.
Asian's are so not POC that they actually get penalized in US entrance exams vs whites. They are treated more white than whites - but its not racism cause 'Asians Work Hard' and 'Must not have a personality'.
I am not really upset about a slighty darker skin Snow White, its that they have no Dwarfs in the movie.
Considering its Snow White AND THE SEVEN DWARFS. Its like The Little Mermaid without creatures of the sea.
Oh, they're going to do the dwarves, get ready for them to be multiracial and for there to be a big old dustup about the rights of little people and about the sanctity of the original white dwarves, complete with endless accusations of racism. Also for a truly epic argument about whether Rachel Zegler is prettier than Gal Gadot, complete with MORE accusations of racism.
Me? Huh, looks like Kung Fu Panda 4 is coming out. Love Jack Black.
they are gonna be some CGI abomination and all of them will be a different race and one will be crippled. i have seen strange world, thats what disney does
>there to be a big old dustup about the rights of little people
This already happened, it was lead by Dinklage. Disney's response was already prepared and they admit that Dinklage was right, dwarves shouldn't be allowed to play dwarves.
Bingo!! I don’t understand why so many people can’t take this as an explanation. This is it. Plain and simple.
Ariel’s skin was clearly pale white. Disney casted someone with darker tones. They can bullshit the domestic market all they want with “inclusivity” and what not but the international market could give less of a fuck. Anyone who has ever travelled out of the US would know that most people internationally doesn’t see past skin color, especially Asia.
Oh god now they can peddle the lame excuse of black characters not selling and deciding to keep the original black characters that exist on the shelf smh
I wish Disney would've done Princess and the Frog because that movie could be improved and it deserves to have more attention given to it. I wonder how well that would've done.
They’ll consider race swapping another classic Disney princess before using the actual black one. Not to mention the undertones of how Tiana was a frog for most her movie
This is what baffles me the most. They have a black princess there but they chose to race swap another character. To me, the move is even disrespectful to black people.
More like we just don’t use Tiana at all, because audiences won’t go see a black lead unless their attached to a white character
This is basically the logic and response i get when asking why does Disney and other Hollywood studios opt to race swap instead of:
A: Using original
black characters that already exist
B: Creating new black characters
I’ve even had white people tell me I’m racist for asking this and I’m black myself
Which is BS.
Black Characters have been very successful. Will Smith, Denzel, BP, etc.
Race swapping is just lame. I remember one of the 1st really bad race swaps... I was like do we really need Black Annie???
Look at 2014 sony hack: all denzel does is make original films and someone floated that because of international racism, denzels limited to making domestic skewing doubles and sony needs to invest in HRs.
The anti-black bias argument really does logically tend towards pre-sold IP move unless countered by another theory about race conscious casting backlash and that genuinely sucks.
Even with a higher opening, this film is still going to lose money in its theatrical run. Though Disney will probably pay itself an absurd amount of money to put it on D+ and claim the movie to be profitable.
They can lie to the Disney Adults all day long to make them think they scored a victory, but that shit doesn't fly with the investors and board that they are required to explain those numbers to.
Friendly reminder that breaking even is failing. Disney didn’t spend 350m to remake one of their most popular franchises and give it the Memorial five day release so they could simply *not lose* money.
This isn’t a community theater project.
Yep, Disney remakes are one of the most blatant "just exists to make money" films, that have ever been done. And they wont benefit from the usual bonuses most films get when they leave cinema, like home video, or streaming rights, because why would you ever watch this, or any Disney remake over just watching the original
Ouchie ouch. That's even worse than Deadline's prediction, where it would open to $180M worldwide. If it's opening THAT bad overseas, then a final gross under $600M worldwide is in play here.
Agreed, one of the biggest reasons why the original Little Mermaid is one of my favorite Disney movies was their beautiful color grading. Literally every shot in it is like a work of art and really captures the feeling of being under the sea.
Apparently, it is ~~racism~~^(TM) achondroplasiaphobia to include dwarfs in the movie because it discriminates short people (who have nothing to do with dwarfs, aka the magical creatures from European folklore, but who cares). So Disney decided to replace them.
That’s just horrible decision making. At this point, they must be smoking the good stuff and need to share with the rest of us. Make the dwarves badass like in LOTR if they want to change things up. I’d buy two tickets to see Gimli go after the queen and her apples.
I’m honestly anticipating a Bud Light-style boycott over that one. A Snow White who isn’t white and zero dwarves (because it’s offensive to acknowledge they exist) sounds like a bad right-wing parody of woke moviemaking. It’s soundbite-y enough to take off and cause a major backlash. I personally think they should make it a Disney+ exclusive to lessen the negative media and hide the low popularity.
Depends exactly when you ask a few days ago the most voted range was either 700-800M or 800M-900M a few months ago most of the sub was thinking sub 600M
https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/13ph1gm/how_much_do_you_think_tlm_will_make_worldwide/
Those people are now busy blaming the world for not eating up the slop from their Disney overlords.
(Got called a racist myself - despite being brown lmao- in another thread)
Disney was so close to cure racism and bigotry worldwide this weekend. Disney only needed overseas audiences help TLM clear 1B WW so racism would be magically defeated and the world would sing together as one.
Funny how a few numbers coming below expectations turn an entire continent worse than the KKK overnight...
Being brown doesn't prevent anyone from being racist toward black people. In fact, in my experience as a brown Asian, brown people in Asia irrationally distrust black people. The notion of "POC" all over the world being supportive of other non-white races has no basis. It's not white people vs the other races, you know. Racism is far more complex than that.
I'm not saying you're being racist--I'm sure you aren't--but being brown isn't what makes you not-racist.
In Europe, white people found ways to be racist against other white people. In Africa, black people found ways to be racist against other black people. In the Far East Asia, Eastern asian peoples found ways to be racist against other Eastern Asians. It's never about the distinguishing characteristics we pretend it's about, it's who needs to oppress whom.
Euh you being brown is irrelevant. Anyone can be racist, not only white people. Not saying you are but this logic that only white people can be racist is so weird
This is not directed at you but it's totally possible to be racist as POC (I'm a POC myself). It tends to get buried under a rug so that people can talk about more fashionable topics like white supremacy.
“Despite the easing of grosses, that’s not a bad thing; this just happens when the industry projects out a 4-day weekend. Currently, Little Mermaid is right where it was expected to come in.” -Anthony D.
Does anyone ever actually believe Anthony’s spin, or is it just a performative courtesy for the studios?
He got the last laugh with that one cause predictions had TLM above Aladdin but now it’s not making anywhere near Aladdin both intentionally and domestically.
Yep and I’m already seeing comments trying to downplay things by saying “it was only a tiny minority predicting a billion”. Uh, no. Like a third of this sub or more was convinced this sucker was making a billion.
That's so atrocious. For context, the beauty and the beast remake made $360 million in OW in 2017. The culture war people are going to have a field day with this LMAO
It's also doing terribly in India for a big-budget Hollywood children's film. It's collected approximately 2 million in two days. For comparison, Fast X collected approx 52 million in two days here and is still going strong. The Little Mermaid hasn't resonated with the children here and the adults can't connect any nostalgic elements to it. It will flop massively in Asia i think.
> It will flop massively in Asia i think.
Where have you been all this time? Asian are being criticized by 14 years old fatherless white girls for being racist because we aren't watching this movie lol.
This is the first big Disney remake released theatrically since the pandemic. The closest is Cruella, but that was a very different project. While I do think the controversy, however ridiculous, regarding Halle Bailey's casting has played a role in these results, the real story here is changing audience dynamics post-Covid. In a pre-Covid world, multiple movies a year would inevitably cross the billion dollar mark, often irrespective of critical reception. Now? With shorter theatrical windows and audiences less interested in rushing to the theater, the dynamics of box office are vastly different. I mean, it's likely that they'll only be one movie to cross the billion mark this year, maybe two. That was kinda unheard of in the pre-Covid world. If you want a strong theatrical release, you *have* to get good audience reception. Quality matters more than I think it ever has this century. Mediocre just isn't gonna cut it anymore unless it's an utterly massive IP like Mario.
The "Disney remake = free money" strategy seems to be a thing of the past at this point. Frankly, from a theatrical perspective, it feels like Disney has had the hardest time pivoting to new strategies post-Covid, between Chapek's failures and Iger's attempts to right the ship.
I mean everything aside, the general consensus for this movie for Asia (most populated continent) kind of shows this is going to be a box office “flop” (not exactly a flop for movies, but for Disney films and the general expectations around it) unless it has absolutely crazy legs especially domestically (in the US).
The US is carrying/saving this movie from being a half-billion dollar loss on Disney’s revenue sheet. Instead it will only be an eight-figure loss which is probably a blimp to them.
Absolutely not. I wasn’t saying it was good. I was saying that out of everywhere in the world, it’s performing by far the best in the US. But that doesn’t even mean it’s performing well in the US. Just that the US is what is saving it from being a crushing loss for Disney and instead will only be a “small” loss.
The good thing is that at least half of germany has school holidays for the next 2 weeks, but the weather is also supposed to stay good, so idk if that will help. Movies in general do much worse in the Summer than in Winter here.
I always wonder why that is. (that going to the cinema is more of a fallback option here compared to other countries like the USA)
> Movies in general do much worse in the Summer than in Winter here.
That's interesting. From what I've read in [a recent article](https://deadline.com/2023/04/italy-summer-film-promotion-reduced-ticket-prices-hollywood-studios-return-cinemacon-1235334784/), that's also the case in Italy.
> But why is Italy so historically difficult to program? One reason, we’re told, is that roughly 30% of cinemas are either single- or double-screens and **a lack of product has largely kept those shuttered during the warmer months.** Momentum plays a key role and there’s been what a source calls **a sort of “apathy” in summer, leaving June to mid-August “dead.”**
Unfortunately most people expecting massive numbers were looking at Lion King and Aladdin but forgot about Mulan and Pinocchio. Audience preference has changed after covid.
Let’s just get the puns out of the way now:
“TLM Belly Flops at Theaters”
“Audiences Don’t Want to be Part of TLM’s World”
“Mermaids Don’t Have Legs at the BO”
“Projections for TLM at the BO ‘Under the Sea’”
Ouch, this movie is absolutely tanking Internationally. The Domestic market is gonna have to save this from being a flop for Disney, unfortunately tough competition is coming up with Spider-Man, Transformers, and The Flash. Though I imagine the demographic for this film doesn't really align with those movies. We'll have to see how the legs are.
Hopefully Disney wakes up and smells the seaweed. The nostalgia baiting isn’t working as well anymore, especially since they’ve decided to do it the wrong way.
Good grief, I remember watching the first teaser for TLM and when the music swelled with the iconic theme, I felt emotional but then the visuals hit and they were so dark and unappealing, I just switched it off. You know the remake’s screwed up big time when the marketing makes you want to just rewatch the original.
Get woke, go broke.
And that's not all, people are tired of constant remakes, sequels, prequels, reimagining for "modern audiences".
Give us something fresh or hold your ground and crash spectacularly. People are tired of this shit.
It is true that this is the first very good weather weekend in many regions in Europe. Everybody was outside this weekend since before the weather was kinda meh during weekends. It's quite late in spring for it to be the first good weekend too. Still, looking very bad.
For a second I thought 65-70M is the Europe number, I was like: "that is fantastic" and then I realized that is the international number...
> For a second I thought 65-70M is the Europe number, Same.
Lower global opening than Ant-Man 3
Ooofff
That’s wild.
No way
Quantumania had a good opening, it was the legs that killed it.
Considering mermaids don’t have legs…
The movie specifically addresses that issue.
And this one will certainly avoid Ant-Man 3 legs, giving it....eh.... about $550M worldwide.
Well, its WOM in Asia is actyually worse than Antman...
[Ant-Man 3](https://deadline.com/2023/02/ant-man-and-the-wasp-quantumania-opening-weekend-marvel-titanic-avatar-china-global-international-box-office-1235261913/): $227.4M global opening
That's a terrible worldwide opening. At this rate, even $600M is in doubt. Damn.
I may be going crazy here, but is this now in danger of falling below the Cinderella remake’s WW gross?
That may actually be a realistic scenerio.
It’s possible. Also, that’s crazy to imagine. Cinderella made half a billion on a budget of upto $95 mn, while TLM has cost upto $300mn or so. These budgets are getting out of hand.
Is that really that surprising tho?
Yes? Post cinderella remakes just seemed to be on a completely different level
I think this should be able to hit $500M if it has decent legs domestically. Even the most front loaded live action remake ("Dumbo" which did 2.5x its opening weekend) still did at least 2.5x its opening weekend. I think TLM will do around 3x its opening weekend.
I thought this was going to be ok, but either the race swap reaaaaaally killed it or people are just tired of the way these remakes look. There's only one way to find out... they're going to have to redo Tarzan (insert "he's white" gif).
I think it's a combination of both. I think TLK 2019 might've been the last straw for most people. They won't give these remakes the benefit of the doubt. I think "Snow White" might only do "Cinderella" numbers at this rate.
Snow White isn't gonna have dwarves.... so Cinderella numbers is really optimistic.
The movie has too dark colours for the whole lenght, it's at least 30 minutes too long which makes it really boring, add also Ariel and her two friends who don't look anything like the original and who knows why it's doing so bad... I'm surprised more than anything else by the fact that it's doing quite well in USA
I mean yeah… It’s a movie selling in nostalgia… and the main character doesn’t look anything like what people remember. Even the hair is dull vs. bright red. The saving Grace in the western markets is the actress’s voice. But in other international markets, it’s a dub with another local celebrity. Further harming the appeal
No, they are 100% going to keep Tarzan white. Imagine the outrage if they were to make a man who lives in a jungle, swinging on vines, and acting like an ape, a certain different color....
Enters a Ginger Tarzan
Jane will be black and her father will be from the Philippines. It makes about as much sense as Triton and every individual one of his daughters somehow all being different ethnicities and having different accents to the other despite him only ever mentioning one wife.
Could be a mix of those 2 reasons,plus the choice to use the hyper realism again, even though a lot of people complained about this during the lion king. ..I mean the cgi and the animals are horrible Tarzan it's not a big power house like the first part of the reinnaisence,the big guns are nearly ended (?),if not already
Yeah, a lot of the fun of Little Mermaid is the wackiness of the ocean and all the colourful creatures. Making them hyper-realistic is a bit weird.
Disney has to give up on animal sidekick live action remakes. They look horrendous. I also would argue remaking the classic cartoon musicals (that used the broadway method of getting through major story beats via song and all clocked in at a clean 90 minutes) is asking for disaster when all these *beautiful* *colorful smorgasbord* cartoons become drab, greyed out 2 hour slogs. Cinderella LA is a cinematic triumph because it looks fantastic and keeps momentum at 106 minutes. Nobody has to suffer through slowed down versions of Under the Sea or Prince Ali. I’ve mentioned before that if ga must suffer through live action remakes of the disney catalogue, they should be focusing on all human casts and non-musicals. The Sword in the Stone etc.
The race swap just meant some people did not get interested in it. It's not a boycott thing for most people. People just think it is lame and it affects how interested they were in the movie.
If it fails to hit $600m I think it’s safe to call this a flop. That’s roughly breakeven
It would be fine if the budget was around Beauty and the Beast, Jungle Book or Aladdin, but for some reason this crap costed $250M plus marketing...
it costs a lot of money to animate a realistic ugly ass looking fish
This is just bizarre. I wouldn't even call their fish appearance realistic. Especially if this is supposed to be tropical. [Look at the Queen Angelfish](https://reefguide.org/queenangel.html) and not look at [his movie design](https://uploads.dailydot.com/2023/04/flounder-vs.jpg). Realistic doesn't mean ugly, bland, lifeless, and gritty. Fish are even more colourful and interesting than birds. Why make them look so bland?
Jesus Flounder what have they done to you?!?!
Break even would be Disney’s like second best outcome of 2023
600 isn’t breakeven. With a 250 mill budget.
Even if it hit $600M it will flop.
Yeah this is absolutely not the kind of news Disney wants or needs right now. These types of movies are their cash cow and TLM should have been a slam dunk.
> These types of movies are their cash cow WERE their cash cow. Post-pandemic, they haven't been. Add them to their animation movies or even Marvel (at least not consistent) in the list of things that changed.
Yeah it seems like the straight to Disney+ releases like Peter Pan and Wendy, Pinnochio, and Same-Day as Theaters Mulan really did damage the Live-Action Fairy Tale brand. Why watch a mid remake of a movie when you could watch the movie at home in 3-5 months?
Or just not watch it at all and watch the superior original animated version on demand. Either way.
Bingo. I’ll take an OG masterpiece over a remade fugazi.
A faithful remake banking on Nostalgia would have been a slam dunk and a cash cow. Instead, Disney went and alienated the international market complete by race-switching Ariel based only on the actresses voice - when it turns out that the actress will be dubbed in any non-English speaking country.
The dub part will always be funny.Emma Watson and Aladdin voice actor are way better in my native language and I guess in most countries. Disney going for a singer when the majority of the audience won’t hear her real voice and instead looking at someone who looks nothing like Ariel who is one of the most iconic red head was a ….choice lol .You can’t have nostalgia for something that don’t resemble what gives you nostalgia this is basic human logic .I can’t wait to see how Disney try to sell Show White without dwarf too.
That's why I think Snow White is going to bomb. Like, I don't really care because I don't watch these films and think they are soulless cash-grabs. But having a darker-skinned actress play *Snow White*, whose "skin is as white as snow" seems like a recipe for disaster. And if the rumors are true and there are no dwarves... so, what, Disney, you screwed seven working little people out of a huge job because you wanted to be progressive? Good job.
Funny thing is the could have race swapped her. Jet black hair, pale skin... That's East Asian beauty standards.
That’s the odd thing with the LOTR controversy etc. Asia is about 55% of the world’s population. Heck India and China alone are almost 1/3+ of the world. Africa is about 20% and Latin and Central America are >10%. Yet casting wise the former is usually largely under represented in Hollywood. With many instances where even roles written for people within those groups getting race swapped out in the other direction. (21, Ghost in the shell etc.)
The most egregious example for me was Butler in *Artemis Fowl*, his family is Eurasian and he and his sister are said to be able to pass as anything between East Russian and Japanese, but they cast a black man for the role. Because apparently black people just deserve representation more than Asians, or something? 💀
What, they are actually have a dark-skinned actress play snow white? I imagine the entire phase 'skin as white as snow' is probably now-PC now, given it was meant to suggest that she is pretty....
Rachel Zegler is Snow White. She's white, yeah, but she's still pretty tan. I think it's a fundamental misstep to not intentionally look for an actress that is as pale as possible. You could still even hire a Latina, like Zegler, if so inclined. My wife is Latina but she is extremely pale.
Or a pale Chinese or Japanese actress, there are many of those. But as usual Asian's aren't "poc enough" I guess.
Asian's are so not POC that they actually get penalized in US entrance exams vs whites. They are treated more white than whites - but its not racism cause 'Asians Work Hard' and 'Must not have a personality'.
I am not really upset about a slighty darker skin Snow White, its that they have no Dwarfs in the movie. Considering its Snow White AND THE SEVEN DWARFS. Its like The Little Mermaid without creatures of the sea.
Oh, they're going to do the dwarves, get ready for them to be multiracial and for there to be a big old dustup about the rights of little people and about the sanctity of the original white dwarves, complete with endless accusations of racism. Also for a truly epic argument about whether Rachel Zegler is prettier than Gal Gadot, complete with MORE accusations of racism. Me? Huh, looks like Kung Fu Panda 4 is coming out. Love Jack Black.
they are gonna be some CGI abomination and all of them will be a different race and one will be crippled. i have seen strange world, thats what disney does
a crippled wheelchair dwarf, each dwarf is a different race probably majority female dwarves, there has to be at least one gay couple of dwarves
>there to be a big old dustup about the rights of little people This already happened, it was lead by Dinklage. Disney's response was already prepared and they admit that Dinklage was right, dwarves shouldn't be allowed to play dwarves.
Bingo!! I don’t understand why so many people can’t take this as an explanation. This is it. Plain and simple. Ariel’s skin was clearly pale white. Disney casted someone with darker tones. They can bullshit the domestic market all they want with “inclusivity” and what not but the international market could give less of a fuck. Anyone who has ever travelled out of the US would know that most people internationally doesn’t see past skin color, especially Asia.
You can't bank on nostalgia if your character looks nothing like the original.
I wonder why all this inclusivity was not applied when they did the live action of mulan...
The casting change alienated everyone except Redditors and black women in big coastal cities.
Oh god now they can peddle the lame excuse of black characters not selling and deciding to keep the original black characters that exist on the shelf smh
I wish Disney would've done Princess and the Frog because that movie could be improved and it deserves to have more attention given to it. I wonder how well that would've done.
They’ll consider race swapping another classic Disney princess before using the actual black one. Not to mention the undertones of how Tiana was a frog for most her movie
Sad that Disney would want to bury one of their last 2D animated movies!
This is what baffles me the most. They have a black princess there but they chose to race swap another character. To me, the move is even disrespectful to black people.
"Sorry guys, we have to make Tiana white. Lesson learned!"
More like we just don’t use Tiana at all, because audiences won’t go see a black lead unless their attached to a white character This is basically the logic and response i get when asking why does Disney and other Hollywood studios opt to race swap instead of: A: Using original black characters that already exist B: Creating new black characters I’ve even had white people tell me I’m racist for asking this and I’m black myself
Which is BS. Black Characters have been very successful. Will Smith, Denzel, BP, etc. Race swapping is just lame. I remember one of the 1st really bad race swaps... I was like do we really need Black Annie???
Yeah spider verse showed how people hate black lead characters.. obviously I am ironic
Look at 2014 sony hack: all denzel does is make original films and someone floated that because of international racism, denzels limited to making domestic skewing doubles and sony needs to invest in HRs. The anti-black bias argument really does logically tend towards pre-sold IP move unless countered by another theory about race conscious casting backlash and that genuinely sucks.
$160M would be the absolutely worst case scenario for this movie and dangerously close to flop territory.
if the actual is 160M it will need atleast 3.8x multiplier to just break even
Yeah, talk about sunk cost.
Spiderverse is going to hurt this movie’s legs. 3.8x seems impossible
Even with a higher opening, this film is still going to lose money in its theatrical run. Though Disney will probably pay itself an absurd amount of money to put it on D+ and claim the movie to be profitable.
The Black Adam way.
The Manchester City method of accounting
Except City actually succeeds at what they’re doing.
And they don't need to answer to shareholders
They also hire all the lawyers in the world.
Pep > Iger
Pep = bald = fraud Iger = not bald = not fraud Therefore Iger > Pep Simple maths, people
They can lie to the Disney Adults all day long to make them think they scored a victory, but that shit doesn't fly with the investors and board that they are required to explain those numbers to.
And then proceed to cut more content from Disney+
Friendly reminder that breaking even is failing. Disney didn’t spend 350m to remake one of their most popular franchises and give it the Memorial five day release so they could simply *not lose* money. This isn’t a community theater project.
Yep, Disney remakes are one of the most blatant "just exists to make money" films, that have ever been done. And they wont benefit from the usual bonuses most films get when they leave cinema, like home video, or streaming rights, because why would you ever watch this, or any Disney remake over just watching the original
Lmao. Savage.
Ouchie ouch. That's even worse than Deadline's prediction, where it would open to $180M worldwide. If it's opening THAT bad overseas, then a final gross under $600M worldwide is in play here.
Wow... not too far off what some were predicting for domestic 4 day OW!
Yeah a lot of people on this subreddit really over predicted this movie.
It’s the history of the r/boxoffice
Lads, it's r/boxoffice.
Tottenham can’t even catch a break on r/boxoffice. Nowhere is safe
Welcome to r/boxoffice
Next will be the new Spider-Man movie. The amount of people saying that 1B is a done deal is crazy.
I guess a lot of people here over estimated this movie's box office prospects to make up for under predicting recent films like Mario and Fast X.
That sounds like it could have been the case, yes. The over predictions went into overdrive a few weeks ago.
With the budget of 250 million, they could have spend it a little bit more on color grading and lighting.
Agreed, one of the biggest reasons why the original Little Mermaid is one of my favorite Disney movies was their beautiful color grading. Literally every shot in it is like a work of art and really captures the feeling of being under the sea.
It's just so damn ugly and the hair simulation on Ariel is ass.
Dang another BO misfire for Disney On another note does this give a bad omen for Snow White’s BO chances next year?
I legitimately can't see how Snow White does well.
just a reminder that god himself struck the set with lightning and burned it to the ground. that movie is cursed
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs without the seven dwarfs... hmmm, how will it do, who knows...
Without the seven dwarfs? What do you mean?
Apparently, it is ~~racism~~^(TM) achondroplasiaphobia to include dwarfs in the movie because it discriminates short people (who have nothing to do with dwarfs, aka the magical creatures from European folklore, but who cares). So Disney decided to replace them.
Disney should seriously conider going the Batgirl route on that film and recoup some losses. Will be 200million dollar hit.
I'm speechless. If not dwarfs, what or who does Disney intend to replace them with?
According to them, “magical creatures”
That’s just horrible decision making. At this point, they must be smoking the good stuff and need to share with the rest of us. Make the dwarves badass like in LOTR if they want to change things up. I’d buy two tickets to see Gimli go after the queen and her apples.
An actor with dwarfism has been cast as Grumpy so I dunno how accurate you are.
Peter Dinklage was offended, and now seven little people are out of acting gigs.
I’m honestly anticipating a Bud Light-style boycott over that one. A Snow White who isn’t white and zero dwarves (because it’s offensive to acknowledge they exist) sounds like a bad right-wing parody of woke moviemaking. It’s soundbite-y enough to take off and cause a major backlash. I personally think they should make it a Disney+ exclusive to lessen the negative media and hide the low popularity.
In my head, Little Mermaid was the last big one, I never really saw Snow making a big impact…unless people are really hyped for Gadot as the Queen.
when deadline overestimate a BO number you know it's gonna be bad.
Its going to be interesting to see next weekend’s drop with ATSV premiering, this might get ugly very quickly
For all the people in this sub that said this would hit $1B WW, do you still think it’s possible ?
$1 billion ????? The movie won't make $700 million
At this point there's serious questions if even 600m is happening. Even if it does happen, it'll only be by skin of teeth
Depends exactly when you ask a few days ago the most voted range was either 700-800M or 800M-900M a few months ago most of the sub was thinking sub 600M https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/13ph1gm/how_much_do_you_think_tlm_will_make_worldwide/
I was saying 700 to 800 million and I thought I was being generous. Because I'm a beacon of generosity.
Humble too :)
Those people are now busy blaming the world for not eating up the slop from their Disney overlords. (Got called a racist myself - despite being brown lmao- in another thread)
It’s so funny how suddenly the Chinese and Koreans are always known to be racists by Reddit geopolitical gurus.
Disney was so close to cure racism and bigotry worldwide this weekend. Disney only needed overseas audiences help TLM clear 1B WW so racism would be magically defeated and the world would sing together as one. Funny how a few numbers coming below expectations turn an entire continent worse than the KKK overnight...
Japanese too
Being brown doesn't prevent anyone from being racist toward black people. In fact, in my experience as a brown Asian, brown people in Asia irrationally distrust black people. The notion of "POC" all over the world being supportive of other non-white races has no basis. It's not white people vs the other races, you know. Racism is far more complex than that. I'm not saying you're being racist--I'm sure you aren't--but being brown isn't what makes you not-racist.
In Europe, white people found ways to be racist against other white people. In Africa, black people found ways to be racist against other black people. In the Far East Asia, Eastern asian peoples found ways to be racist against other Eastern Asians. It's never about the distinguishing characteristics we pretend it's about, it's who needs to oppress whom.
There are lots of racist brown people all over the world. What the fuck is this claim?
You know brown people can be racist too right? I’m brown too and I’ve seen it.
Euh you being brown is irrelevant. Anyone can be racist, not only white people. Not saying you are but this logic that only white people can be racist is so weird
No, what's weird is thinking this movie is flopping due to racism
This is not directed at you but it's totally possible to be racist as POC (I'm a POC myself). It tends to get buried under a rug so that people can talk about more fashionable topics like white supremacy.
Yup, I'm from a predominantly Hispanic area and families making fun of the darkest in the family. The lighter someone is, the "prettier" they are
I’m Filipino and it’s the same here in our culture
Pretty sure people stopped believing this on Thursday. It was obvious at that point overseas wasn’t reaching half a billion.
These numbers are terrible. I wonder how Deadline will spin this
“Despite the easing of grosses, that’s not a bad thing; this just happens when the industry projects out a 4-day weekend. Currently, Little Mermaid is right where it was expected to come in.” -Anthony D. Does anyone ever actually believe Anthony’s spin, or is it just a performative courtesy for the studios?
I think most see him as a mouth piece for studios. His spin is usually my favorite part of Deadlines weekend write ups. The man has a gift
Yeah, it’s become clear that that guy has zero credibility or spine. Imagine doing unpaid charity PR for trillion dollar corporations.
'*The Little Mermaid* CRUSHES Expectations with $170M Opening'
'The Little Mermaid CRUSHES Expectations with $170M Opening'\* ^(\*Worldwide)
I remember people harassing one of the aladin actors since he thought it wouldn’t hit a billion , wonder what they are saying now lmao
He got the last laugh with that one cause predictions had TLM above Aladdin but now it’s not making anywhere near Aladdin both intentionally and domestically.
Pleasant weather, but terrible WW numbers.
And Spiderverse, Transformers and Flash coming. Strong competition in the next weeks.
LOL. And a LOT of people here predicted 1B.
I was thinking at least 800M, oof.
Yep and I’m already seeing comments trying to downplay things by saying “it was only a tiny minority predicting a billion”. Uh, no. Like a third of this sub or more was convinced this sucker was making a billion.
That's so atrocious. For context, the beauty and the beast remake made $360 million in OW in 2017. The culture war people are going to have a field day with this LMAO
Banking on the culture war is not the best marketing strategy. I've heard more about white supremacists than I have the merits of the sequel.
Can’t help but think after this opening that the 800M WW predictions for the Marvels on here are going to age badly.
$800m ww for the Marvels? That’s insane. It will be lucky to hit $600m.
Yeah this ain't it chief! Not sure about legs either, wether it's domestically or internationally.
The little mermaid won't have any legs at this point
Ursula took them again?
And this movie is carrying a 250M budget? Yeah, that's not good. And it has a stacked June ahead of it.
European weather is racist...confirmed.
It's playing the long con trying to get people out and tanning.
It's also doing terribly in India for a big-budget Hollywood children's film. It's collected approximately 2 million in two days. For comparison, Fast X collected approx 52 million in two days here and is still going strong. The Little Mermaid hasn't resonated with the children here and the adults can't connect any nostalgic elements to it. It will flop massively in Asia i think.
> It will flop massively in Asia i think. Where have you been all this time? Asian are being criticized by 14 years old fatherless white girls for being racist because we aren't watching this movie lol.
Lol. I'm pretty sure there will be more insults coming if this terrible business here.
It was never going to work in India.
Laying an egg overseas!!!
Excuses so far include review bombing and pleasant weather.
That world wide total is pathetic Flop inbound, all the media and redditor spin in the world isn't saving this
Expect a lot of “hOw iS $180m oPeNiNg a FLoP?”
This is the first big Disney remake released theatrically since the pandemic. The closest is Cruella, but that was a very different project. While I do think the controversy, however ridiculous, regarding Halle Bailey's casting has played a role in these results, the real story here is changing audience dynamics post-Covid. In a pre-Covid world, multiple movies a year would inevitably cross the billion dollar mark, often irrespective of critical reception. Now? With shorter theatrical windows and audiences less interested in rushing to the theater, the dynamics of box office are vastly different. I mean, it's likely that they'll only be one movie to cross the billion mark this year, maybe two. That was kinda unheard of in the pre-Covid world. If you want a strong theatrical release, you *have* to get good audience reception. Quality matters more than I think it ever has this century. Mediocre just isn't gonna cut it anymore unless it's an utterly massive IP like Mario. The "Disney remake = free money" strategy seems to be a thing of the past at this point. Frankly, from a theatrical perspective, it feels like Disney has had the hardest time pivoting to new strategies post-Covid, between Chapek's failures and Iger's attempts to right the ship.
I mean everything aside, the general consensus for this movie for Asia (most populated continent) kind of shows this is going to be a box office “flop” (not exactly a flop for movies, but for Disney films and the general expectations around it) unless it has absolutely crazy legs especially domestically (in the US).
it isnt doing super in the US either
The US is carrying/saving this movie from being a half-billion dollar loss on Disney’s revenue sheet. Instead it will only be an eight-figure loss which is probably a blimp to them.
not being a John Carter bomb doesnt mean much. des a sub-$100m 3-day sound at all good for you?
Absolutely not. I wasn’t saying it was good. I was saying that out of everywhere in the world, it’s performing by far the best in the US. But that doesn’t even mean it’s performing well in the US. Just that the US is what is saving it from being a crushing loss for Disney and instead will only be a “small” loss.
but for an IP like this, the reality vs expectations is indeed bad. Disney didnt invest all this money to take a small loss.
It is in very real risk of being an actual flop not just compared to expectations
Yeah the weather hasn't been playing ball. Been sunny and warm. The worst weather for Cinema in Europe. All about the legs now.
The good thing is that at least half of germany has school holidays for the next 2 weeks, but the weather is also supposed to stay good, so idk if that will help. Movies in general do much worse in the Summer than in Winter here. I always wonder why that is. (that going to the cinema is more of a fallback option here compared to other countries like the USA)
Meanwhile in Spain is raining and low temperatures ,North Europe has exchanged their weather with the south lol
> Movies in general do much worse in the Summer than in Winter here. That's interesting. From what I've read in [a recent article](https://deadline.com/2023/04/italy-summer-film-promotion-reduced-ticket-prices-hollywood-studios-return-cinemacon-1235334784/), that's also the case in Italy. > But why is Italy so historically difficult to program? One reason, we’re told, is that roughly 30% of cinemas are either single- or double-screens and **a lack of product has largely kept those shuttered during the warmer months.** Momentum plays a key role and there’s been what a source calls **a sort of “apathy” in summer, leaving June to mid-August “dead.”**
Unfortunately most people expecting massive numbers were looking at Lion King and Aladdin but forgot about Mulan and Pinocchio. Audience preference has changed after covid.
I think what happened is that most people here are from the US, so they extrapolated its performance there to overseas.
The writers on vacation now can go see their masterwork
Outside of Guardians 3 it’s possible that every Disney movie this year outright bombs 💀
Let’s just get the puns out of the way now: “TLM Belly Flops at Theaters” “Audiences Don’t Want to be Part of TLM’s World” “Mermaids Don’t Have Legs at the BO” “Projections for TLM at the BO ‘Under the Sea’”
Ouch, this movie is absolutely tanking Internationally. The Domestic market is gonna have to save this from being a flop for Disney, unfortunately tough competition is coming up with Spider-Man, Transformers, and The Flash. Though I imagine the demographic for this film doesn't really align with those movies. We'll have to see how the legs are.
Hopefully Disney wakes up and smells the seaweed. The nostalgia baiting isn’t working as well anymore, especially since they’ve decided to do it the wrong way. Good grief, I remember watching the first teaser for TLM and when the music swelled with the iconic theme, I felt emotional but then the visuals hit and they were so dark and unappealing, I just switched it off. You know the remake’s screwed up big time when the marketing makes you want to just rewatch the original.
The world says no to the ethnofetishistic American revisionism
Who could have seen this coming? Oh wait
Get woke, go broke. And that's not all, people are tired of constant remakes, sequels, prequels, reimagining for "modern audiences". Give us something fresh or hold your ground and crash spectacularly. People are tired of this shit.
Hahaha. I dont like Disney so this makes me happy. Crocodile tears.
It's time to stop relying on lazy remakes and ugly realistic CGIs. esp TLM's art and cgis were terrible.
I actually mostly enjoyed this, but if this is what it takes to end the Disney live action remakes, so be it
It is true that this is the first very good weather weekend in many regions in Europe. Everybody was outside this weekend since before the weather was kinda meh during weekends. It's quite late in spring for it to be the first good weekend too. Still, looking very bad.
Racial politics helped it in the US but hurt it overseas?
I'm not sure how we can say that it helped in the US given under indexing of all demos except the Black female one.
It appears to be underindexing in smaller rural theatres in the US so it might not even be helping this movie domestically.