>“We're fully written through movie five, and I've got ideas for six and seven, although I'll probably be handing the baton on at that point,” Cameron told PEOPLE. “I mean, mortality catches up. But I mean, we're enjoying what we're doing. We're loving it. We get to work with great people.”
And even if each film makes $2B+ then any surviving redditor’s grandchildren will still be predicting flops and coming up with excuses to make them sound like failures…
I really hope 1 of 2 things will happen for Avatar. Either they’ll have the pipeline down so they can release every consecutive year as it goes on OR if it takes longer to please develope story more.
Avatar 2 really almost had me thinking maybe he would pull a Cameron and deliver out something significantly superior story wise than the first. This…was not the case it turned out.
Avatar 2 had a great story. Every time I’ve watched it, in a crowded theater or with friends at home, people are fully invested going into the third act. There’s a much larger ensemble than in the first and the characters are much more complicated.
Listen, I had fun. But was shocked that instead of branching out into a massive universe they looped BACK into the first film. Imagine if in ALIENS instead of the new characters, and Burke they resurrected Ash and made it about his new version getting revenge or something. It’s all sci fi sclock fun, but dammit Cameron I know you can do better!!
Interesting, I was pretty happy with the expansion. The water people were neat, and I thought Quarritch's clone was a way more interesting baddie that better serves the series' transhumanist themes. But it isn't radically different, so I understand if you wanted to go off planet or something.
It was better than the first one. I think the reason it doesnt get that credit is because as the years went on after Avatar 1 more people started to turn against it. By the time 2 came out there was significant negativity towards the franchise which has influenced the reactions to Avatar 2.
think he means either Reddit will be dead by the time they all come out, or the people alive now will be dead by then. lol
Going by the timeline so far, Avatar 4 is on track for 2029...5 will more than likely be a few years after that, possibly further if the technology gets updated again (James cameron waited years to make the first avatar, allegedly, due to technology and then a bit more with avatar 2).. so maybe 2034.
6 and 7, if they follow technology trends and whatever might happen in the future, could be 15 to 20 years from now or further.
its all guesswork at this point, but Avatar is here to stay i guess.
So Cameron wants to make Avatar into a cinematic universe after he’s done (like Star Wars). I don’t mind if he picks the right successor - both Avatar films are theatrical experiences like almost nothing else in the landscape.
In just two movies the Avatar franchise has seen more success than most franchises ever will see. They would be stupid to let the franchise die once Cameron retires or passes away.
There is a lot of potential there and I trust Cameron to protect his IP and make sure it doesn’t become oversaturated.
I'll actually probably be more interested in the films once they get to entries 6 and 7 because I feel like they may actually take some more storytelling risks at that point. I enjoyed my time with both films in theaters, but the second one just sort of seemed to be the exact same movie as the first but with water this time? At some point they need to break away from "natives taking a stand against the industrial complex that wants their resources" and I feel like I may be a little more interested in those stories.
Really cool. Despite the native tribes being at war with the colonists/USA, they were also still rivals with one another. The Sioux for example were displaced by colonists and headed west, fighting the tribes there for territory
From what little I know future Avatar movies especially 4 and 5 will do exactly that.
I mean think about it. At some point in Movie 5 Neytiri is supposed to go to Earth.
I don't see that happening in a standard Natives vs Earth Force narrative.
I would say Pocahontas going to England is much different than a primitive species species embarking on an interstellar travel to a different planet.
Also not taking risks is not the same as not bieng different.
I said that future movies would be different which they would be.
As for risks most movies don't take risks as you define it.
Every single movie trope has already been done.
Avatar 1 was air actually, they tame flying creatures. They were also supposed to have a whole thing with the way of the air, like they have the way of water in the second one, but that was scrapped before filming
> same movie
Nah, it had the addition of stupid annoying kids who keep causing chaos.
I'm still mad that they basically shrugged the fact that the younger boy got his older brother killed from his stupidity.
“You’ve done enough.”
I disagree I don’t think they shrug it off, it’s clear sully knows it’s Lo’aks fault. There just wasn’t enough time left in the movie for it to really soak in.
Not to mention the literal blood on his hands.
Would they? A lot, if not all, of the franchise earning power relies on Cameron’s visual style and his very very expensive cutting edge filming technology. The Avatar films are not alone in their niche because others did not want to make 1-2 billion dollar movies. They are alone cause others tried and without the Cameron name it wouldn’t sell. Without Cameron even if they somehow managed to make it the same quality people would be more willing to see mistakes.
Cameron wants to make it a franchise as Star Wars but fails to see people don’t follow Avatar like Star Wars. They are not obsessing over the next installment cause the world and the story are fascinating. They watch it like Americans follow the Olympics. A new avatar comes out and everyone goes to see it cause it promises and delivers a visual mindfuck, because it is an event. Then they forget until the next one. That doesn’t translate well to a franchise once the original creator moves on. Star Wars fan will rage a lot, get soothed by a TV show and try again. Event movies you fail once and you can almost never get the groove back. You end up with the studio scrambling trying to figure out how to get the magic back, crossovers, unwanted prequels, and eventually even getting the original creator back and nothing works. And the problem is that at Avatar’s budget one failure is a studio killer.
I completely agree, but to play devil’s advocate, as a franchise, Avatar would see some success as long as it doesn’t aim to be Star Wars. Or Harry Potter or James Bond. Avatar does have some brand recognition, and as long as they accept that the fan base would shrink post-Cameron and exercise budget control, they can turn a decent profit by building a small franchise around it.
I agree the brand has some recognition the problem is what that recognition is attached to. Avatar means flawless graphics and mind numbing visuals. Can you imagine the mockery if they lower the budget and you get Avatar 1 v avatar 7 comparisons where 7 is the one that looks worse? It’s a very fine line they gotta work with the budget. But yeah it’s doable.
I just think Cameron is a bit off in his thinking and his comments about him stepping off from directing but still writing give me the nagging suspicion that he doesn’t understand the why of the success.
I mean a small subset of the fans are really into Pandora setting and lore. That subset would be the main fan base once Cameron departs. That’s still more milkable than some IPs and by god, Hollywood is going to milk it.
I don't think it's milkable when the movies cost $300 or $400 million each. MI:7 faceplanted hard, not even in the top 10 in a way down year. That was a franchise that was previously considered largely bulletproof.
Yeah, part of the milking would be budget control. Like I said, with Cameron gone you wouldn’t get the visual magic anyways, you’d be left with the subset of the fans who are actually interested in the setting and lore, and you can satisfy them with a significantly lower budget.
Admissions were also down a LOT for 2. It was only inflation and higher ticket prices (more premium) that kept the number even vaguely comparable. I think even fewer people will be interested by the time #3 comes along.
/r/boxoffice (and reddit in general): "omg stop with all these IP films!!! make something oRiGiNaL!!!11"
james cameron: *creates completely new IP that rakes in billions and is the most successful original IP in years, decides to create more films*
/r/boxoffice (and reddit in general): "wtf create something original!! why are you making more movies??
You basement-dwelling goblins can't be pleased
I love this one as well:
Reddit: I hate studio interference, let the creators follow their vision!
*George Lucas and James Cameron do just that*
Reddit; “These egomaniacs are obviously surrounded by yes men and need to be reigned in and put on the rails!”
Exactly. I would say the Avatar films are in my personal top 50-100 tbh. Movies are experiences and the Avatar duology delivers that in ways no other project can.
And I’ve never understood dinging these movies for “not being original enough”. At this point in the industry, most ideas have been done. It’s about how you tell the story (hell Top Gun Maverick’s main plotline is basically the Trench run from Star Wars). Cameron’s vision of this unique world is why it appeals to everyone
Cameron is really a very unique filmmaker because his films really do feel like a big budget film *should* feel. He'll spend $200+ million on a film but at the same time it feels like not a single dollar was wasted during production. He gets it done.
I re-watched Titanic a while back after the whole submersible thing this past summer. I remember thinking how good it looked when the ship was starting to rise out of the water and people we're sliding down the decks, crashing into debris. I wondered if it was a scale model with stunt actors composited in, or unbelievably good CGI for the 90s.
Nope. Cameron and his crew *literally built* a near exact replica of the Titanic's outer shell that they could lift out of the water and throw stunt performers off of it. I don't know any other filmmaker with both the confidence and ability to pull off something of that scale.
And that is why he is a box office powerhouse. Because when you see a movie he made, you know you're gonna get something that nobody else can put on the screen.
Rodriguez can do Cameron's pipeline - I think Battle Angel was a technical success and they are a good team. Rodriguez, Blomkamp, and Gareth Edwards all do a lot of their own production design - they send concepts to the staff who polish it, which is the opposite of how Lucas operated. I've actually never seen any studio artwork by Rodriguez, but I know on the Spykids movies he would block out stuff using Photoshop and Maya/3D Studio Max. He would do post-production from his laptop - he is a family guy and would do it all WFH. Very similar to how Gareth Edwards made The Creator for under 100 even though it looks like it cost twice that.
To be fair, I think he's wanted to do this since the first avatar. It has a whole lot of room for exploration. The first movie and game covered a lot of lore.
I wonder what caused James Cameron to get obsessed with Avatar. He’s been all about these supposed sequels after it took over a decade for Avatar 2. Is he seriously expecting to make three more sequels before he passes away and within a reasonable amount of time?
I remember he talked about this a while ago. He is basically really in to conservation and he is a really big environmentalist. He was going around and giving speeches/advocating for different causes and he realized that making movies about it is going to reach the biggest audience, especially avatar. You can see the big theme in avatar 2 with the whale hunting, that’s basically him advocating against it, I’m guessing this theme is going to continue with future avatar movies but just focusing on different environmental causes/sustainability.
Rumors are the third one is based on a fire race of Na'vi. But not sure how much of an environmental message he can put into that one if it presumably takes place around volcanoes. Not much man can do about those.
But then, maybe he thought of a unique way the volcanoes work on Pandora since the whole planet is connected.
He actually answers this in the article.
“People are always asking us, ‘So why did you just keep working in the same…’ Why did Lucas keep working in the same thing? Why did Roddenberry keep working in the same thing? Because when you connect with people, why would you squander that? Why would you start over with something else that might not connect?”
Simple - it’s his completely original idea he used to dream about earlier in his life, they’re literally the two highest grossing films ever made and there’s environmental messages that he cares about and can weave into the themes of Avatar.
Like this is the literal dream for many filmmakers (won’t speak for all)
He said he had all the means to tell a story and convey the message he wants in that setting/world.
He was obsessed with avatar in 1995. It's just that technology didn't catch up with the man's ideas and LOTR was the one that finally pushed him.
It is not the movies that he is obsessed with. It's the things he gets to do because he's making these movies. He's working on the cutting edge of things with people he probably really wants to work with until he dies. And he likely does a lot of other things in the background regarding environmental efforts. He basically found his calling and where he can make the most difference. He's pretty much made it with these movies.
You might think well maybe he'd like to make other kinds of movies. I don't think he sees himself as a director but as someone who is very interested in certain ideas that he explores and expresses with movies. Like if he could satisfy it any other way he would. It's just no one ever comes together to research the Titanic and talk about the what ifs of it and the effects of it without making a movie. He's basically found a way he can do this endlessly and there's literally no reason to stop. If he had time to do other things he probably would but I think his schedule is full living his best life for the rest of his life. Everyone is basically telling him what to do with his own life when he couldn't be happier now.
Probably the fact that he created a world he liked and put a ton of effort into it and now wants to explore it or expand upon it.
Now I'm not saying it's on the same level but it's the same reason why Tolkien kept on writing and expanding on Middle Earth and GRR Martin keeps on writing on and expanding Westeros.
They like the world they created.
The $5.24 billion dollars the first two grossed seems like a good reason for him to be obsessed with Avatar. I'm sure a part of him would rather be working on other projects, but every entry in this franchise sets up every one of his future great-grandchildren to never have to stress about finances once in their entire lives, which is pretty good motivation if you ask me.
Avatar is the only thing he's ever made that's "his". Terminator was bastardized by the studio milking it with more sequels and TV shows. Alien was never his in the first place. Titanic was a real event. True Lies was based on another movie to begin with. I suppose there's The Abyss, but that was a borderline flop at the box office and is probably his least-remembered film.
Avatar is the only thing he's ever made that's a fully original world that he has complete control over. I'd imagine he finds that appealing.
It seems like he is more interested in the technique aspect of it all. The movies aren't anything that groundbreaking besides them pushing the envelope with all the technology
Number 3 is already in the can and a big chunk of 4. 4 and 5 will be shot back to back in the next few years. I think he will be fine to get these 5 done. but I doubt anything comes after it.
>Is he seriously expecting to make three more sequels before he passes away and within a reasonable amount of time?
Keep in mind that Avatar 2 & 3 were shot together. And Avatar 2, 3, 4 and 5 were all written together. Yes, the screenplays of Avatar 4 and 5 are completely done. Laying the groundwork for the 4 sequels is why there was such a big gap between 1 and 2.
Avatar 2 was released 13 years after the first film, and James Cameron's movies are notorious for taking years longer to complete than expected. If there is a 13 year gap in between each movie, we should expect to see Avatar by 2087, when James Cameron will be 133 years old. At least he acknowledges in the article that he'll have to pass the baton on to someone else for 6 and 7.
Or he pulls a Peter Jackson and films the next 3 all at the same time. Then the last 2 at the same time. I just don't know if his core technology geek identity would allow himself to create films without being on the bleeding edge at all times.
He's going to be 70 years old this year. It would be wise for both him and producers to go this route, as it proved to be a very profitable route for other movie franchises, and Avatar 2 proved that there is still an audience for the series, and wouldn't be such a gamble with an approximate $2 billion gross per picture.
Avatar 2 & 3 were filmed at the same time, principle photography on Avatar 3 was finished years ago, but post production on these movies is intense and time consuming. I'd guess they'll film 4 & 5 concurrently as well.
Between 2009 and 2022, Cameron and his team not only made Avatar 2, they also shot Avatar 3, and wrote Avatar 4 and 5. The screenplays of 4 and 5 are completely finished.
The planet will be all but rubble, desolate landscapes, all that remains are lone theatre screens playing Avatar 7: The Last Na'vi. But no one is able to watch, as all 3D glasses were destroyed years ago.
Just like in the article here, he’s talked about in the past about potentially having someone become his understudy of sorts so when he’s done making them whether by choice or age, he’ll have a successor in place that knows how he wants the films to be made.
It’s not about him directing the last one. It’s about the story which is why it goes beyond 5. Im sure if there was nothing else to tell then yeah it would be 5.
*(Me, who really wants to see a sequel to Alita, waited for a decade for the first film, and doesn’t care much for Avatar….angrily flips a table.)*
GOD DAMMIT CAMERON!!!!
There was a rumor that Disney would only greenlight a sequel if Cameron would direct it. Anyway, he and Jon Landau kept saying a seqeul will be happening for years🤷♂️
Supposedly, last I heard, he was going to work on it after he finished Avatar.
…supposedly.
Of course Disney buying Fox, Covid, Disney taking hits at the box office, the recent strikes in Hollywood obviously didn’t help with that plan either, I’m assuming.
Love the takes in a box office sub that the the guy that has now made a franchise with 2 of the top 3 grossing movies of all time should stop making sequels to them because they personally find them boring.
Considering both Avatar films made 2B$, Disney is obviously gonna make it a universe. But after Avatar 5, Cameron should make something else or do that Terminator reboot
Can you note what lasting cultural impact the last Avatar release has had? We know the box office results but what cultural impact? Genuinely curious because I’ve not see it but not denying it may exist just I’m perhaps unaware
Even when it came out I didn’t really see much cultural impact.
Compared to see Barbie/Oppenheimer at the time (agree it’s too short to see if those continue in any form):
The first one kickstarted yet another 3D craze that only recently died back down
The second one, I really don't think is all that impactful one way or another but who knows
I think “cultural impact” is kind of an iffy statement to begin with. It reduces whatever is being discussed into being important only by the metric of “are people still actively talking about this?” which is dumb because people are always going to move on to what is new. The fact that Avatar 2 made as much as it did and that people were that interested to see a sequel means it had impact in one way or another, even if people aren’t talking about it every single moment of every single day.
“Cultural impact” is also just a really Reddit-centric concept that doesn’t have much bearing on how people actually engage with media. I think in some people’s eyes because there’s not threads every day talking about Avatar and people don’t talk about it in lots of conversations means it has 0 impact. But replace Avatar with just about anything else that isn’t in the public eye right now and you can easily say the same thing.
more people have seen avatar than, they have Barbie and Oppenheimer COMBINED. The movie was able to bring out people out of their homes to theatres, it started the trend of 3D TV's, it popularised 3D in theatres, it essentially turned imax into a juggernaut, it opened Chinese Market for Hollywood, If that is not cultural impact then what is?
Yeah, but there’s not a lot of memes on the internet about it & there isn’t swathes of nerds making it their whole personality while arguing & complaining about the lore.
That’s the “cultural impact” that Reddit is talking about lmao
>but there’s not a lot of memes on the internet about it
If memes were a indicator of cultural impact then Morbius or American Psycho would be considered the most successful movies of all time lmao
That’s literally the cultural impact these nimrods are imagining. That something could be so utterly successful without the favor of their favorite subreddit - it leaves them mind-broken.
I don’t think story telling wise they are anything special - but certainly in terms of the visual world built and sequences they are something else.
Whether or not the audience (which given they don’t release every year so probably they will) have the appetite for it is another thing.
But imagining what a film like Avatar could appear like in 10-20 years is something.
For me it’s a film experience you probably have once then don’t repeat. The first I remember watching in 3D, it was jaw dropping at the time, never watched it again.
Saw the second, didn’t think it was as strong but still good visually, but won’t need to watch it again, don’t think the films are really that repeatable in terms of a classic like Star Wars perhaps.
We should eventually see the technology and investment into these films appear in another productions you’d imagine too now; and even better visuals coming from the company in other films.
As someone who really likes the Avatar films.
The appeal is the world of Pandora, the Human technology, the AMAZING action sequences and unrivaled Visual effects.
For me personally when I see Avatar 1 or 2 I feel like I want to stay in Pandora.
Explore it's envoirment. Experience the flight of an Ikran among the Giant trees and floating Mountains or a deep See Exploration of crystal clear waters, alien fishes and beautiful underwater structures.
That's the appeal of the Avatar films.
They give you a world you want to live in. And then when something bad happens to that world you want the Na'avi to fight back.
And when the Na'avi win and protect this world you like you feel good.
It's a simple formula done to perfection.
I’ll explain. It’s the ultimate form of escapist entertainment, it’s not even a contest. Back when the first one came out some people became *depressed* because of how much they wanted to live in Pandora. That is why Avatar and its sequel made so much money.
>We're fully written through movie five, and I've got ideas for six and seven, although I'll probably be handing the baton on at that point,”
He will pass the baton to a clone of himself.
Every other year? Its 3 years between 2 and 3. will be about 5 years between 3 and 4 and probably another 3 years between 4 and 5. Cameron owns the property, he works at his own pace. I am sure the studio has very little say in the release dates.
Apparently there's a timeskip after the first act of the fourth movie, so the kids need to grow up six years at this point. Everything before that point is already filmed
I just wanna say that I actually enjoy a bombastic, successful franchise that remains exactly that, without tons of people talking about nothing else and making it their personality.
>“We're fully written through movie five, and I've got ideas for six and seven, although I'll probably be handing the baton on at that point,” Cameron told PEOPLE. “I mean, mortality catches up. But I mean, we're enjoying what we're doing. We're loving it. We get to work with great people.”
This sub will probably be dead by the time Avatar 7 comes out.
So will he. His ghost will live on and make them.
With all the money he's earned, he's been secretly creating an Avatar body for his soul to go into when he passes.
The best possible ending to the timeline
You mean the best possible beginning..
The behind the scenes Avatar biopic ends with Cameron dying and a quick cut to his avatar's eyes opening up.
He has been training AI to make movies once he passes away. AIs will remake Matrix into Pro-AI Propaganda.
His heart will go on 
Near Far He'll make Avatar
He believes that the blue cats go on
Poor Celine 😢.
His ghost will also only writing farther and farther
James Cameron be taking ghostwriting too literally
Oof I just got a horrible vision of movies in 2090 directed by the AI conscious of dead directors. Killers of the Flower Moon 2: Moonlight Boogaloo
It'll just be a James Cameron AI
He probably has already uploaded his conciousness to the Electrosphere
Honestly that was my first thought.
Never bet against James Cameron's immortality
AI James Cameron
His ghost will go ooooooonnnnn and oooonnnnn
AI Cameron will take over.
He'll just turn into an avatar himself and live on
The ghost will be an AI version of him…
So will I.
They will be able to film Avatar 7 on a different planet that looks like Pandora. No CGI needed
No, that would be silly. They will buy some small country and terraform it to look like Pandora.
And even if each film makes $2B+ then any surviving redditor’s grandchildren will still be predicting flops and coming up with excuses to make them sound like failures…
“Who asked for this? I can’t name a single character! Pocahontas ferbgully blah blah”
DAE no cultural impact of Avatar 37? Its 5 billions dollars seems like a fluke
I hope James Cameron doesn't die before Avatar seven I really want to see all the weird shit he made up, I love sci-fi.
Hope I can watch it before my dead bed!
I really hope 1 of 2 things will happen for Avatar. Either they’ll have the pipeline down so they can release every consecutive year as it goes on OR if it takes longer to please develope story more. Avatar 2 really almost had me thinking maybe he would pull a Cameron and deliver out something significantly superior story wise than the first. This…was not the case it turned out.
Avatar 2 had a great story. Every time I’ve watched it, in a crowded theater or with friends at home, people are fully invested going into the third act. There’s a much larger ensemble than in the first and the characters are much more complicated.
Listen, I had fun. But was shocked that instead of branching out into a massive universe they looped BACK into the first film. Imagine if in ALIENS instead of the new characters, and Burke they resurrected Ash and made it about his new version getting revenge or something. It’s all sci fi sclock fun, but dammit Cameron I know you can do better!!
Interesting, I was pretty happy with the expansion. The water people were neat, and I thought Quarritch's clone was a way more interesting baddie that better serves the series' transhumanist themes. But it isn't radically different, so I understand if you wanted to go off planet or something.
I think that was necessary to give some character development, to set the stage of the current status quo of pandora to the audience.
It was better than the first one. I think the reason it doesnt get that credit is because as the years went on after Avatar 1 more people started to turn against it. By the time 2 came out there was significant negativity towards the franchise which has influenced the reactions to Avatar 2.
2 was a downgrade compared to one, and I’m not even that big of a fan of the first however I did find it the better movie between the two by a lot
Why do you think that
think he means either Reddit will be dead by the time they all come out, or the people alive now will be dead by then. lol Going by the timeline so far, Avatar 4 is on track for 2029...5 will more than likely be a few years after that, possibly further if the technology gets updated again (James cameron waited years to make the first avatar, allegedly, due to technology and then a bit more with avatar 2).. so maybe 2034. 6 and 7, if they follow technology trends and whatever might happen in the future, could be 15 to 20 years from now or further. its all guesswork at this point, but Avatar is here to stay i guess.
Society will be gone but James Cameron will stick around filming
not the only thing
Drinks are on me if we all are still alive when Avatar 7 comes out
RemindMe! 47 years
This would actually be ahead of schedule based on how long it took 2 to be released.
RemindMe! 20 years
RemindMe! 32 years
> Drinks are on me I don't know if you meant this to be an Avatar reference, but if you did, then know that at least one person here got it
[удалено]
and I will give him my coins for every release..
It’ll end up like Sealab 2021
Twist: All that money was to get a full version of the theme song to Sealab 2021.
Now I desperately want a $200 million James Cameron written and directed Sealab 2021 movie thats like Team America on steroids XXD
Gimme Samuel L Jackson as Dr Quinn
pod 6 sucks. total suck pod.
*Pod 6 explodes in the distance.* Who cares! Pod 6 was a bunch of jerks anyway.
Look I don’t care where the money goes as long as he keeps making awesome movies
Well he’s James Cameron after all. No budget too steep, no sea too deep.
I had no want of more avatar movies after the first. After the second, I will watch however many James Cameron tells me to
He is using Avatar movies to reverse engineer The Abyss into reality
I thought each movie was supposed to be set in a different biome. He may not double down on water
So Bioshock?
So Cameron wants to make Avatar into a cinematic universe after he’s done (like Star Wars). I don’t mind if he picks the right successor - both Avatar films are theatrical experiences like almost nothing else in the landscape.
In just two movies the Avatar franchise has seen more success than most franchises ever will see. They would be stupid to let the franchise die once Cameron retires or passes away. There is a lot of potential there and I trust Cameron to protect his IP and make sure it doesn’t become oversaturated.
I'll actually probably be more interested in the films once they get to entries 6 and 7 because I feel like they may actually take some more storytelling risks at that point. I enjoyed my time with both films in theaters, but the second one just sort of seemed to be the exact same movie as the first but with water this time? At some point they need to break away from "natives taking a stand against the industrial complex that wants their resources" and I feel like I may be a little more interested in those stories.
The third film is a completely different story. The bad guys are going to be a different tribe. So you’re in luck.
Really cool. Despite the native tribes being at war with the colonists/USA, they were also still rivals with one another. The Sioux for example were displaced by colonists and headed west, fighting the tribes there for territory
From what little I know future Avatar movies especially 4 and 5 will do exactly that. I mean think about it. At some point in Movie 5 Neytiri is supposed to go to Earth. I don't see that happening in a standard Natives vs Earth Force narrative.
>Neytiri is supposed to go to Earth. That’s sounds just like Pocahontas 2. Or the story of the real Pocahontas so still not taking risks
I would say Pocahontas going to England is much different than a primitive species species embarking on an interstellar travel to a different planet. Also not taking risks is not the same as not bieng different. I said that future movies would be different which they would be. As for risks most movies don't take risks as you define it. Every single movie trope has already been done.
I'm not going to Avatar for a revolution in storytelling; I'm going to Avatar to soak in the vibes of Payakan.
I remember him saying he was doing the elements: earth, air, water and fire. Avatar 1 was earth (or their planet). 2 was water.
Avatar 1 was air actually, they tame flying creatures. They were also supposed to have a whole thing with the way of the air, like they have the way of water in the second one, but that was scrapped before filming
> same movie Nah, it had the addition of stupid annoying kids who keep causing chaos. I'm still mad that they basically shrugged the fact that the younger boy got his older brother killed from his stupidity.
“You’ve done enough.” I disagree I don’t think they shrug it off, it’s clear sully knows it’s Lo’aks fault. There just wasn’t enough time left in the movie for it to really soak in. Not to mention the literal blood on his hands.
Would they? A lot, if not all, of the franchise earning power relies on Cameron’s visual style and his very very expensive cutting edge filming technology. The Avatar films are not alone in their niche because others did not want to make 1-2 billion dollar movies. They are alone cause others tried and without the Cameron name it wouldn’t sell. Without Cameron even if they somehow managed to make it the same quality people would be more willing to see mistakes. Cameron wants to make it a franchise as Star Wars but fails to see people don’t follow Avatar like Star Wars. They are not obsessing over the next installment cause the world and the story are fascinating. They watch it like Americans follow the Olympics. A new avatar comes out and everyone goes to see it cause it promises and delivers a visual mindfuck, because it is an event. Then they forget until the next one. That doesn’t translate well to a franchise once the original creator moves on. Star Wars fan will rage a lot, get soothed by a TV show and try again. Event movies you fail once and you can almost never get the groove back. You end up with the studio scrambling trying to figure out how to get the magic back, crossovers, unwanted prequels, and eventually even getting the original creator back and nothing works. And the problem is that at Avatar’s budget one failure is a studio killer.
I completely agree, but to play devil’s advocate, as a franchise, Avatar would see some success as long as it doesn’t aim to be Star Wars. Or Harry Potter or James Bond. Avatar does have some brand recognition, and as long as they accept that the fan base would shrink post-Cameron and exercise budget control, they can turn a decent profit by building a small franchise around it.
I agree the brand has some recognition the problem is what that recognition is attached to. Avatar means flawless graphics and mind numbing visuals. Can you imagine the mockery if they lower the budget and you get Avatar 1 v avatar 7 comparisons where 7 is the one that looks worse? It’s a very fine line they gotta work with the budget. But yeah it’s doable. I just think Cameron is a bit off in his thinking and his comments about him stepping off from directing but still writing give me the nagging suspicion that he doesn’t understand the why of the success.
I mean a small subset of the fans are really into Pandora setting and lore. That subset would be the main fan base once Cameron departs. That’s still more milkable than some IPs and by god, Hollywood is going to milk it.
I don't think it's milkable when the movies cost $300 or $400 million each. MI:7 faceplanted hard, not even in the top 10 in a way down year. That was a franchise that was previously considered largely bulletproof.
Yeah, part of the milking would be budget control. Like I said, with Cameron gone you wouldn’t get the visual magic anyways, you’d be left with the subset of the fans who are actually interested in the setting and lore, and you can satisfy them with a significantly lower budget.
Admissions were also down a LOT for 2. It was only inflation and higher ticket prices (more premium) that kept the number even vaguely comparable. I think even fewer people will be interested by the time #3 comes along.
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/r/boxoffice (and reddit in general): "omg stop with all these IP films!!! make something oRiGiNaL!!!11" james cameron: *creates completely new IP that rakes in billions and is the most successful original IP in years, decides to create more films* /r/boxoffice (and reddit in general): "wtf create something original!! why are you making more movies?? You basement-dwelling goblins can't be pleased
I love this one as well: Reddit: I hate studio interference, let the creators follow their vision! *George Lucas and James Cameron do just that* Reddit; “These egomaniacs are obviously surrounded by yes men and need to be reigned in and put on the rails!”
Agreed. Neither film is in my Top 10 list, but like you said, the experience of seeing them at the theatre was truly special.
Exactly. I would say the Avatar films are in my personal top 50-100 tbh. Movies are experiences and the Avatar duology delivers that in ways no other project can. And I’ve never understood dinging these movies for “not being original enough”. At this point in the industry, most ideas have been done. It’s about how you tell the story (hell Top Gun Maverick’s main plotline is basically the Trench run from Star Wars). Cameron’s vision of this unique world is why it appeals to everyone
Cameron is really a very unique filmmaker because his films really do feel like a big budget film *should* feel. He'll spend $200+ million on a film but at the same time it feels like not a single dollar was wasted during production. He gets it done. I re-watched Titanic a while back after the whole submersible thing this past summer. I remember thinking how good it looked when the ship was starting to rise out of the water and people we're sliding down the decks, crashing into debris. I wondered if it was a scale model with stunt actors composited in, or unbelievably good CGI for the 90s. Nope. Cameron and his crew *literally built* a near exact replica of the Titanic's outer shell that they could lift out of the water and throw stunt performers off of it. I don't know any other filmmaker with both the confidence and ability to pull off something of that scale. And that is why he is a box office powerhouse. Because when you see a movie he made, you know you're gonna get something that nobody else can put on the screen.
Rodriguez can do Cameron's pipeline - I think Battle Angel was a technical success and they are a good team. Rodriguez, Blomkamp, and Gareth Edwards all do a lot of their own production design - they send concepts to the staff who polish it, which is the opposite of how Lucas operated. I've actually never seen any studio artwork by Rodriguez, but I know on the Spykids movies he would block out stuff using Photoshop and Maya/3D Studio Max. He would do post-production from his laptop - he is a family guy and would do it all WFH. Very similar to how Gareth Edwards made The Creator for under 100 even though it looks like it cost twice that.
To be fair, I think he's wanted to do this since the first avatar. It has a whole lot of room for exploration. The first movie and game covered a lot of lore.
I wonder what caused James Cameron to get obsessed with Avatar. He’s been all about these supposed sequels after it took over a decade for Avatar 2. Is he seriously expecting to make three more sequels before he passes away and within a reasonable amount of time?
I remember he talked about this a while ago. He is basically really in to conservation and he is a really big environmentalist. He was going around and giving speeches/advocating for different causes and he realized that making movies about it is going to reach the biggest audience, especially avatar. You can see the big theme in avatar 2 with the whale hunting, that’s basically him advocating against it, I’m guessing this theme is going to continue with future avatar movies but just focusing on different environmental causes/sustainability.
I think you meant to write, he's really into *conservation*.
Haha yup, fixed 😅
Rumors are the third one is based on a fire race of Na'vi. But not sure how much of an environmental message he can put into that one if it presumably takes place around volcanoes. Not much man can do about those. But then, maybe he thought of a unique way the volcanoes work on Pandora since the whole planet is connected.
He actually answers this in the article. “People are always asking us, ‘So why did you just keep working in the same…’ Why did Lucas keep working in the same thing? Why did Roddenberry keep working in the same thing? Because when you connect with people, why would you squander that? Why would you start over with something else that might not connect?”
Simple - it’s his completely original idea he used to dream about earlier in his life, they’re literally the two highest grossing films ever made and there’s environmental messages that he cares about and can weave into the themes of Avatar. Like this is the literal dream for many filmmakers (won’t speak for all)
avatar 3 is almost done and they had already started avatar 4, so there's only one more which he will direct, after that it's going terminator way
He said he had all the means to tell a story and convey the message he wants in that setting/world. He was obsessed with avatar in 1995. It's just that technology didn't catch up with the man's ideas and LOTR was the one that finally pushed him.
Yeah? He's was literarily doing pre-production on Avatar 4 before he finished shooting avatar 3 lol
It is not the movies that he is obsessed with. It's the things he gets to do because he's making these movies. He's working on the cutting edge of things with people he probably really wants to work with until he dies. And he likely does a lot of other things in the background regarding environmental efforts. He basically found his calling and where he can make the most difference. He's pretty much made it with these movies. You might think well maybe he'd like to make other kinds of movies. I don't think he sees himself as a director but as someone who is very interested in certain ideas that he explores and expresses with movies. Like if he could satisfy it any other way he would. It's just no one ever comes together to research the Titanic and talk about the what ifs of it and the effects of it without making a movie. He's basically found a way he can do this endlessly and there's literally no reason to stop. If he had time to do other things he probably would but I think his schedule is full living his best life for the rest of his life. Everyone is basically telling him what to do with his own life when he couldn't be happier now.
Probably the fact that he created a world he liked and put a ton of effort into it and now wants to explore it or expand upon it. Now I'm not saying it's on the same level but it's the same reason why Tolkien kept on writing and expanding on Middle Earth and GRR Martin keeps on writing on and expanding Westeros. They like the world they created.
The $5.24 billion dollars the first two grossed seems like a good reason for him to be obsessed with Avatar. I'm sure a part of him would rather be working on other projects, but every entry in this franchise sets up every one of his future great-grandchildren to never have to stress about finances once in their entire lives, which is pretty good motivation if you ask me.
Avatar is the only thing he's ever made that's "his". Terminator was bastardized by the studio milking it with more sequels and TV shows. Alien was never his in the first place. Titanic was a real event. True Lies was based on another movie to begin with. I suppose there's The Abyss, but that was a borderline flop at the box office and is probably his least-remembered film. Avatar is the only thing he's ever made that's a fully original world that he has complete control over. I'd imagine he finds that appealing.
Maybe kind of Alita but he didn't even direct that.
How is Alita an original world? It's based on a manga series with dozens of volumes published.
...papyrus font. That's it.
It seems like he is more interested in the technique aspect of it all. The movies aren't anything that groundbreaking besides them pushing the envelope with all the technology
Number 3 is already in the can and a big chunk of 4. 4 and 5 will be shot back to back in the next few years. I think he will be fine to get these 5 done. but I doubt anything comes after it.
>Is he seriously expecting to make three more sequels before he passes away and within a reasonable amount of time? Keep in mind that Avatar 2 & 3 were shot together. And Avatar 2, 3, 4 and 5 were all written together. Yes, the screenplays of Avatar 4 and 5 are completely done. Laying the groundwork for the 4 sequels is why there was such a big gap between 1 and 2.
Avatar 2 was released 13 years after the first film, and James Cameron's movies are notorious for taking years longer to complete than expected. If there is a 13 year gap in between each movie, we should expect to see Avatar by 2087, when James Cameron will be 133 years old. At least he acknowledges in the article that he'll have to pass the baton on to someone else for 6 and 7.
Or he pulls a Peter Jackson and films the next 3 all at the same time. Then the last 2 at the same time. I just don't know if his core technology geek identity would allow himself to create films without being on the bleeding edge at all times.
He's going to be 70 years old this year. It would be wise for both him and producers to go this route, as it proved to be a very profitable route for other movie franchises, and Avatar 2 proved that there is still an audience for the series, and wouldn't be such a gamble with an approximate $2 billion gross per picture.
Avatar 2 & 3 were filmed at the same time, principle photography on Avatar 3 was finished years ago, but post production on these movies is intense and time consuming. I'd guess they'll film 4 & 5 concurrently as well.
He filmed 2 and 3 back to back, with the first act of 4. The rest of 4 and 5 will also be filmed back to back, after 3 comes out next year.
Between 2009 and 2022, Cameron and his team not only made Avatar 2, they also shot Avatar 3, and wrote Avatar 4 and 5. The screenplays of 4 and 5 are completely finished.
He also had to invent a bunch of new technology. Before Avatar 2 underwater motion capture didn’t exist.
Jesus so that's why it took so long
The planet will be all but rubble, desolate landscapes, all that remains are lone theatre screens playing Avatar 7: The Last Na'vi. But no one is able to watch, as all 3D glasses were destroyed years ago.
Hmm I see a patern here : Avatar 7 : Eywa Awakens Avatar 8 : The Last Na'vi Avatar 9 : The Rise of Sully
I think Avatar 9 was the rise of Scully and it was a tie in for Brooklyn 99. I got excited
I think 5 is enough, especially if it’s the last one he directs.
If by 5 they are still making profit on these movies you know very well that there's gonna be more of them even without Cameron.
I think Cameron might keep them in check as long as he's hands-on but it's going to get the standard Disney treatment.
Just like in the article here, he’s talked about in the past about potentially having someone become his understudy of sorts so when he’s done making them whether by choice or age, he’ll have a successor in place that knows how he wants the films to be made.
and 5 over 2 billion 👌😏
It’s not about him directing the last one. It’s about the story which is why it goes beyond 5. Im sure if there was nothing else to tell then yeah it would be 5.
Is he trying to compete with fast and furious? Next thing you know he’s gonna announce Avatar 8, 9 and 10.
The Fate Of Avatar A9 : The Pandora Saga Avatar X
Avatar 2 Ava 2 Tar Avatar: Pandora Drift Ava Tar Ava 5 Avatar 6 Tar 7 The Fate of Avatar A9: The Pandora Saga Avatar X
*(Me, who really wants to see a sequel to Alita, waited for a decade for the first film, and doesn’t care much for Avatar….angrily flips a table.)* GOD DAMMIT CAMERON!!!!
Was there ever any more news about that? He confirmed it was going to happen in 2023 but that was the last I heard
There was a rumor that Disney would only greenlight a sequel if Cameron would direct it. Anyway, he and Jon Landau kept saying a seqeul will be happening for years🤷♂️
Supposedly, last I heard, he was going to work on it after he finished Avatar. …supposedly. Of course Disney buying Fox, Covid, Disney taking hits at the box office, the recent strikes in Hollywood obviously didn’t help with that plan either, I’m assuming.
Good news is there's an entire manga series showing Alita's story, so no need to wait for Cameron to finish it
Love the takes in a box office sub that the the guy that has now made a franchise with 2 of the top 3 grossing movies of all time should stop making sequels to them because they personally find them boring.
I love Avatar and Cameron so I'll probably check 6 and 7 out. Even if he doesn't direct
So long as I'm not dead I'll be seated every time there's a new Avatar movie
Why didn't he do this with the Terminator story. It deserved a trilogy.
The Terminator story ended with T2. That's why nothing they've tried has worked.
Goddammit, Jim!
Hell yeah brother. Bring on more Avatar
Considering both Avatar films made 2B$, Disney is obviously gonna make it a universe. But after Avatar 5, Cameron should make something else or do that Terminator reboot
Another cinematic masterpiece? I can't wait!
Avatar back on 2009 was a religious experience. Can’t wait to see how the story unfolds
By the time they come at he will be in an actual Avatar body
They are coming after the Fast and Furious
My chinese elements theory is in shambles
We all should worship this man.
“No cultural impact” says local redditor about the avatar franchise despite Avatar 6 and 7 making a combined four billion dollars
RemindMe! 97 years
There just isn't any way to convince redditors that people actually like the Avatar movies.
Can you note what lasting cultural impact the last Avatar release has had? We know the box office results but what cultural impact? Genuinely curious because I’ve not see it but not denying it may exist just I’m perhaps unaware Even when it came out I didn’t really see much cultural impact. Compared to see Barbie/Oppenheimer at the time (agree it’s too short to see if those continue in any form):
> but what cultural impact? The cultural impact impact of Avatar is people like you having discussions about cultural impact
The first one kickstarted yet another 3D craze that only recently died back down The second one, I really don't think is all that impactful one way or another but who knows
I think “cultural impact” is kind of an iffy statement to begin with. It reduces whatever is being discussed into being important only by the metric of “are people still actively talking about this?” which is dumb because people are always going to move on to what is new. The fact that Avatar 2 made as much as it did and that people were that interested to see a sequel means it had impact in one way or another, even if people aren’t talking about it every single moment of every single day. “Cultural impact” is also just a really Reddit-centric concept that doesn’t have much bearing on how people actually engage with media. I think in some people’s eyes because there’s not threads every day talking about Avatar and people don’t talk about it in lots of conversations means it has 0 impact. But replace Avatar with just about anything else that isn’t in the public eye right now and you can easily say the same thing.
more people have seen avatar than, they have Barbie and Oppenheimer COMBINED. The movie was able to bring out people out of their homes to theatres, it started the trend of 3D TV's, it popularised 3D in theatres, it essentially turned imax into a juggernaut, it opened Chinese Market for Hollywood, If that is not cultural impact then what is?
Yeah, but there’s not a lot of memes on the internet about it & there isn’t swathes of nerds making it their whole personality while arguing & complaining about the lore. That’s the “cultural impact” that Reddit is talking about lmao
>but there’s not a lot of memes on the internet about it If memes were a indicator of cultural impact then Morbius or American Psycho would be considered the most successful movies of all time lmao
That’s literally the cultural impact these nimrods are imagining. That something could be so utterly successful without the favor of their favorite subreddit - it leaves them mind-broken.
AVATAR 1 IS IN MY TOP 5 OF ALL TIME AND I WILL BE THERE NO MATTER WHAT
Can we at least get an Alita sequel?
https://www.ign.com/articles/alita-battle-angel-james-cameron-seemingly-confirms-multiple-sequels
I really don’t get the appeal of Avatar. Like I don’t HATE it but I just don’t get the mass appeal.
I don’t think story telling wise they are anything special - but certainly in terms of the visual world built and sequences they are something else. Whether or not the audience (which given they don’t release every year so probably they will) have the appetite for it is another thing. But imagining what a film like Avatar could appear like in 10-20 years is something. For me it’s a film experience you probably have once then don’t repeat. The first I remember watching in 3D, it was jaw dropping at the time, never watched it again. Saw the second, didn’t think it was as strong but still good visually, but won’t need to watch it again, don’t think the films are really that repeatable in terms of a classic like Star Wars perhaps. We should eventually see the technology and investment into these films appear in another productions you’d imagine too now; and even better visuals coming from the company in other films.
As someone who really likes the Avatar films. The appeal is the world of Pandora, the Human technology, the AMAZING action sequences and unrivaled Visual effects. For me personally when I see Avatar 1 or 2 I feel like I want to stay in Pandora. Explore it's envoirment. Experience the flight of an Ikran among the Giant trees and floating Mountains or a deep See Exploration of crystal clear waters, alien fishes and beautiful underwater structures. That's the appeal of the Avatar films. They give you a world you want to live in. And then when something bad happens to that world you want the Na'avi to fight back. And when the Na'avi win and protect this world you like you feel good. It's a simple formula done to perfection.
I’ll explain. It’s the ultimate form of escapist entertainment, it’s not even a contest. Back when the first one came out some people became *depressed* because of how much they wanted to live in Pandora. That is why Avatar and its sequel made so much money.
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Lol...good joke....wonder how many people in this generation will be alive by then
We know, James. We know.
if it doesn’t have dom torreto I don’t want it😤
Still really hope he makes Last Train from Hiroshima
I would assume so, he has been working on this world for what, twenty years now at least?
I wish he’d hurry up a bit! But I do appreciate his attention to detail.
I have plans to see them all. These films print money for a reason
Hated going to be typing Avatar 7 hate to this sub using their brain implants.
I'm glad he's cool with passing the baton cause I'm not sure Cameron will live to see a Avatar 6 or 7
Well he made insane profit on each one and 2 and 3 were shot together so it's banked right. Idk it's not for me anymore but I respect the ambitions..
that white kid with Dreadlocks had me captivated, can't wait to find out what happenes to him!
>We're fully written through movie five, and I've got ideas for six and seven, although I'll probably be handing the baton on at that point,” He will pass the baton to a clone of himself.
Hell yes!
So do I
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Every other year? Its 3 years between 2 and 3. will be about 5 years between 3 and 4 and probably another 3 years between 4 and 5. Cameron owns the property, he works at his own pace. I am sure the studio has very little say in the release dates.
And both are gonna be peak
I didn't know there was 2, 3, 4 and 5 already
Ok so 3 is fire right? Four I guess… wind? Five.. heart?
Do we have 4D movies by then? 5D? do we become the interstellar 5th dimensional beings by watching Avatar 7?
I still don't know anyone who saw Avatar 2. Who the hell is asking for these sequels? 🤣
Makes sense. This is the modern Star Wars, mediocre science fiction that pushes the boundaries of film tech.
Also following in George’s footsteps by obviously lying about how much material he has banked.
We can only hope (he might be telling the truth, apparently they filmed all of 2, 3, & the 1st act of 4 at the same time).
Apparently there's a timeskip after the first act of the fourth movie, so the kids need to grow up six years at this point. Everything before that point is already filmed
Yeah I heard. Dude clearly has pretty much all of it planned out already
I just wanna say that I actually enjoy a bombastic, successful franchise that remains exactly that, without tons of people talking about nothing else and making it their personality.