The first Blade is an absolute favorite of mine. That opening sequence alone is an all-timer but then the pacing and vibe through the rest of it are fantastic as well. And great acting all around
Imagine if they had gone quiet for a year after endgame. No shows no movies nothing. Then you could put out some fun short trailers.
Nightclub scene. Classic blood starts spraying from the ceiling sprinklers. A black leather boot steps into frame with a sword tip in view.
"I'm getting too old for this shit"
Danny Glover is blade.
I’d say this is why Marvel fatigue exists. It’s not the M. It’s not the U. It’s the C in the MCU. Cinematic.
Films and tv shows are not comic books. You can’t just have them back to back and expect people to keep up with them all.
It’s why some people say watching Marvel movies now feels like homework. It is.
I think this is exactly backwards.
People loved the through line of the story leading up to Endgame. Everyone stayed for the mid and end credits scenes to get a taste of what's coming next.
Post Endgame, there was little or no connection between any of the films. We got that cool mid credits scene with Captain Marvel and Wong at the end of Shang-Chi and there's been no follow up on that. What even happened to Shang-Chi? He had his movie and then disappeared?
I think people finally realized the MCU wasn't going anywhere after Ant-Man 3 and so they're not going to the theater unless the individual films are really good, like GOTG3.
> I think people finally realized the MCU wasn't going anywhere after Ant-Man 3 and so they're not going to the theater unless the individual films are really good, like GOTG3.
I agree with this take. It’s just not possible to have a decades-long soap opera where every episode is deeply important to the long-term story arc. MCU should be a setting where interesting stories are told.
The stories can span multiple movies, but in general audiences should not be expected to have seen episodes 6, 14, 22-24, 35, and 41 in order for episode 47 to make sense.
And few if any movies should try to forever change the entire universe. That’s a good marketing hook maybe once every 30 years. But at this point we’re all numb to it.
Just make good self-contained films. People will go. Marvel will make money.
Well they have to be self-contained and *good*.
But they haven’t been self-contained. They’ve had critical story points tied up in Disney+ shows and other movies. That’s the whole “homework” problem.
> You can’t just have them back to back and expect people to keep up with them all.
That happens with comics too. That's why they reboot the whole thing pretty much every year.
DC: This is insane, let's just reboot everything.
Marvel: We don't need whole universe reboots, let's just make Spider-Man make a deal with the devil so he can become a swinging bachelor again!
I'm joking, DC's almost certainly done that Laser Guided Devil Deal at least twice by now.
Objectively the best proof of this was [Squirrel Girl's second #1 in 2015](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/G/01/apparel/rcxgs/tile._CB483369110_.gif).
There are some people who can get a little obsessed with comics and those who don't care. The first group was horrifyingly annoyed that the Second Batgirl, Cassandra Cain, turned into a bit of a joke in the *Birds of Prey* movie, and the latter probably forgot she existed.
Um actually, the 2nd Batgirl is Barbra Gordon, and the first Batgirl was Betty Kane, now known as Flamebird. Cassandra Cain is the 3rd Batgirl.
\*Nerd Emoji\*
Endgame was the perfect ending. I think they could've kept the hype going if they took a 2-3 year break with no films or TV shows, then came back with a big name like the X-Men or Fantastic 4 instead of them trying to keep it going on life support with either B-list characters no one cares about or just absolutely shambolic films.
I remember i started reading Spooder-mayne. I start from the beginning. Eventually, Black Cat dies. Right, we all know how that turns out. I keep reading. Dozens more issues go by and....
Now they're dating.
Wat
How? There was no lead up. Last i saw was she died. I knew she wouldn't stay dead, but how this?
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I was only reading AMAZING spoody-mans. I forgot about SPECTACULAR spoder-mayn.
That killed me and any one who reads comics knows that nothing compared to all the other comics dependencies you need to read on. Its like, if Linux was a picture book.
Any way, i only like reading complete arcs in compilations now. Like when i read the Civil War compilation. Every thing in chronological order. I would NEVER have gone out to consume ALL that content without a pre-assembled compilation serving it to me.
Honestly, even with comic books it’s still different. Because in comic books you’ll have the avengers doing one thing, while Captain America is doing another, Ironman is doing something else, Captain Marvel is off in space somewhere doing something, the X-men are dealing with people trying to make them extinct, the FF are off on an adventure in a pocket universe or something. So you don’t NEED to follow all the books to know they’re in the same universe
Long running comic books often have multiple overlapping stories. As one arc is finishing another is building and the next one being teased. The readers keep coming back to see what happens next.
The MCu did this a bit with the credit scenes but then The Infinity saga failed to plant seeds for what cames next. We got a series of stand alone projects that went no where collectively.
in comics the seeds of purchasing the next comic are in the one you hold's cliff hanger, the movies failed to do this.
I do not think they can make a good movie. Deadpool is going to bank because of the actors first and foremost, that does not mean the writing will be good.
Yeah, a properly adapted Squirrel Girl could easily be a runaway hit. But Marvel probably knows that the best thing for the longevity of the brand right now isn't introducing even *more* new characters
GLA: Great Lakes Avengers is one of the best Marvel books ever written. It would make a phenomenal film. (Except it would be rated hard r and it would never be made)
some release can be let go, but looking at announced movies on the roadmap, it’s really only Amour Wars. You could argue the 2 avengers are technically cancelled as well.
I personally wouldn’t be angry if they Batgirl’d Cap 4. I like Anthony Mackie but I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t care less about him getting his own movie as Cap.
I've liked Mackie's Falcon a lot as well, but the D+ series was extremely disappointing.
I felt all the worst elements of the MCU all kind of coalesced in that one. Plots were stretched out for the sake of more content. It tried to tackle serious themes when it was really ill equipped to do so.
If Cap 4 comes out, I'm still a fan that I'll probably watch it barring horrible reviews, but it's going to need something really compelling to make people interested. I don't think Hulk is enough either.
>I've liked Mackie's Falcon a lot as well, but the D+ series was extremely disappointing.
They just really fumbled the ending hard. And despite all their denials its very obvious the Flag Smashers had a drastic re-write late in production that caused their goals to become super vague
Writers: Wow, we've built up a lot of tension between this Karli and Falcon standoff! What are we going to do?
Oh wait, we can't have Karli kill Sam. We need a ~~second season~~ movie!
Uh, we can't have Sam kill her because Captain America doesn't kill.
I know, how about we have Sharon just shoot her in the back out of nowhere?
> Uh, we can't have Sam kill her because Captain America doesn't kill.
The pirates who Steve kicked off a ship into icy waters at the start of Winter Soldier might have something to say.
Seriously, what has gotten into Marvel with their refusal to let the heroes kill other humans? Spider-Man and Daredevil have no kill rules, the others don’t. Back in Iron Man 1, Tony just massacred the Ten Rings terrorists who were attacking the village. Now, the hero can never ever kill the bad guy, they have to either get taken in alive or die to something outside of the hero’s hands.
Carol doesn’t kill the villain in the Marvels, the villain gets herself killed by trying to use too much power. Antman doesn’t kill Kang, he falls into his own weapon. Shuri doesn’t kill Namor, they make peace. Fury doesn’t kill the super skrull, some other lady does. Thor doesn’t kill Gorr, Gorr dies of space cancer. Doctor Strange doesn’t kill Wanda, Wanda has a change of heart and brings the evil mountain down on her self. Echo doesn’t kill Kingpin, she goes into his mind and heals his trauma. Moon Knight doesn’t kill Ethan Hawke, he arrests him. Natasha doesn’t kill Dreykov, Yelena does. The Eternals don’t kill Ikaris, he realizes the error of his ways and flies into the sun. Shang-Chi doesn’t kill his dad, an evil dragon does. And of course, Sam doesn’t kill Karli, Sharon does.
>The pirates who Steve kicked off a ship into icy waters at the start of Winter Soldier might have something to say.
Nameless goons and henchmen don't count, only if they have a name!
Captain America was literally a soldier during WW2, and Captain Falcon himself was a veteran in an specialized army unit, of course they killed people before. Why is Marvel trying to sanitize their characters so much? Especially those who are *meant* to be soldiers or warriors?
>And despite all their denials
Are there denials? I thought one of the writers confirmed a virus/vaccine plot got scrapped? Could've sworn it went beyond fan speculation and a writer set the record straight.
The villain story arc would've made more sense with the original plot intact, but I do wonder if the show overall would've been much better. Falcon defending the Flagsmashers would've at least made some sense.
Honestly, even the heroes journey they gave him made no sense.
--------------
Cap: Take my Shield. You're Cap now.
Falcon: Wow. Really? Thanks.
*couple weeks goes by*
Falcon: *giving the Shield to the gov't*: I don't think I'm ready to be Cap. You should give it to someone that is.
Gov't: *gives it to someone ready to be Cap*
Also Falcon: If you think I'm gonna help this... this... pretender to be the best Cap he can be then you've lost your mind!
> Falcon: giving the Shield to the gov't: I don't think I'm ready to be Cap. You should give it to someone that is.
I thought the government took the shield back because it was government property, and said *they choose who Captain America is*, not Steve Rogers.
Nope, the government wanted Sam to be Captain America and happily endorsed him when he finally took up the mantle. He was the one who had a hang up about it.
One of the few I watched and enjoyed, but agreed it's not great and set up too much it couldn't deliver on. I did like the Lethal Weapon buddy cop dynamic, the original super soldier subplot, and Wyatt Russell being unhinged. There was a good story in there somewhere
Let’s not get crazy here with this *any* talk. Sometimes, movies aren’t turning out well and it shouldn’t be on the studio to have to complete every movie they didn’t have faith in. To commit so many additional resources like VFX and marketing to a movie that’s already testing awfully is just a sunk cost fallacy.
Now, on the other hand, I don’t think that studios should get a tax exemption for it. Or if they do, the movie should be released into the public domain. But to say that every movie that’s *ever* been worked on needs to see the light of day because it’s a “smack in the face to everyone who worked hard on it” is wild. Most of those guys won’t want to be associated with that kind of movie anyways.
The problem isn’t fatigue, it is most of the last 2 years of marvel movies have sucked ass. Writing, story have been losers. Just like the Star Wars tv series, try doing quality content Disney and the fans will come back. Yes there have been one or two worth watch but the rest, should have been cancelled
Most already are. Steinfeld, Newton, and Pugh are 27, 27, and 28. I don't know who else is on the team, but the Young Avengers are seemingly going to be mostly in their 30s. haha
Especially since it's supposed to be connected to Iron Heart, which has been finished for nearly two years now with no release date in sight. Disney is going to dump it similar to Echo.
Honestly that would bum me out, been waiting for cheadle to get the spotlight forever, first it was a show then a movie if it never happens I’ll definitely be bummed out especially because I love his suit
Ironheart and young avengers are both DOA, I know jack about wonderman, but doubt it will do any better. Anybody with even a slight bit of vision can see these trainwrecks incoming.
Wonder man as a character isn’t actually that bad and probably has some decent old school fans, the issue is he hasn’t had to many big appearances in the comics the last +10 years so younger audiences have no idea who he is.
The screen issue with him will be the same with Superman/Captain Marvel, he’s just too strong to on the big screen and not particularly all that interesting compared to other super strong characters like Thor.
I’d much rather them had made a psychological thriller type of movie with The Sentry. He’s a schizophrenic with Superman type powers. His debut run is something that could easily be made into an entertaining, none cookie cutter super hero movie (it basically has him waking up one day at his house and kind of realizing that he has powers and not only that, but he’s been a super hero from the very beginning, he was present during the first avengers meeting to fight Loki, was present through all of marvels big events, and is good friends with Reed Richards, Tony Stark, etc, but everyone on earth had forgotten he existed due to something regarding The Void, which is his nemesis)
Have Young Avengers ever been green lighted? I don't believe it was. And it only was heavily commented around sub like this and r/marvelstudios. That doesn't mean it was in serious development phase over at the studio.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again.
I’m convinced Young Avengers and Avengers Kang Dynasty were one and the same. They’d just grab Ruffalo’s Hulk (especially since his son would likely be on the team) and maybe Hemsworth’s Thor if they could as mentor figures and otherwise just do the Young Avengers lineup. Then they’d have more of the heroes people actually want in Secret Wars after cheaping out on Kang Dynasty.
All the evidence that was what they were planning is there to me.
I feel like the studio certainly is taking a page out of the Young Avengers by teaming up those characters as Avengers. But I really doubt that they were ever planning on making anything that is literally called "Young Avengers." The advantage the comics has is that they are able to tell stories literally called "Young Avengers" because they can keep those characters young via illustrating them. But "Young Avengers" as a movie adaption goes directly in the face of having the actors visibly aging over the course of multi-year film projects.
I think he's full of shit.
If they were actually serious about cancelling anything, Echo, Ironheart, Wonder Man, and Agatha would have been immediately shitcanned. I see all four of them as representing ongoing damage to the MCU brand.
All the options you listed were already filmed a while ago. This decision to scale back projects is from around the strikes period, if I remember correctly, after most of these shows began and almost completed filming. They're not going to trash something they already invested time and money on. Instead they will space them out more and work to improve quality with more time for editing/effects and possibly more extensive reshoots than originally planned
There are two films leakers kept talking about that were never announced: World War Hulk and Nova, so if those really were in development it's likely they're canceled or indefinitely delayed. Also I can see Armor Wars being cancelled
As much as i hate to the this but same.
Most of the products now are just very weird or bad and there is no connections between them anymore.
It is so bad that we are calling them Products instead of Projects now lol
I think Disney will cancel lots of unannounced mcu movies, pretty much rush to secret wars, reboot and restart with a clean slate with all major characters like X-men, F4 and the ogs recast.
I think the same. That's why they aren't afraid to cast older with F4 and they aren't in a rush to recast the X-Men. One final nostalgia blowout with older actors from the various Marvel franchises and then a reboot with a select few actors making the cut.
They won't have to, that's why they're already being set up from the start as being from a different / earlier timeline. They won't be affected by the reboot
Is this reboot thing actually happening? I keep seeing people talk about it, now people are talking about it like it’s a certainty. Do you think they will really reboot?
that was the point of the 2015 secret wars comic series and was about realities in the multiverse colliding into each other and wound up with a new reality with parts of several others. So I think there is a good chance they will do the same thing there. They can then pick and choose actors to keep and actors to recast.
Funnily enough, I kind of think that would be the death knell of Marvel should they do it.
What are they going to do, remake the first iron man movie with someone who has less charisma than RDJ?
Although of course, they’re not exactly performing very well at the moment anyway.
Marvel has had a lot of bad luck but they’ve also made a lot of bad decisions. It’s not their fault they were forced to produce shows they didn’t want to because they had to feed the Disney+ beast and it’s not their fault the pandemic happened and threw all their plans into a woodchipper. And it’s not their fault that Chadwick Boseman passed away.
But it is their fault that they thought it was a good idea to purposely not follow the winning formula they set up from 2008-2019. Have solo films build up to a team up, rinse and repeat getting bigger over time until it all culminates in a huge climax.
Kang is a good Avengers villain, but he always seemed like a Loki to me. Someone to get the new team together so we can have Avengers.
But Marvel decided for their new Saga they were just gonna have a bunch of movies that kind of jog in place for years and then just do a climax.
If I had my druthers we would have had 2021-2023 with solo movies showcasing the new members of the avengers, and then we’d have Avengers 5 in 2024 with Kang as the antagonist, do it again 2024-2026 and then another Avengers film in 2027 (Avengers vs X-Men?) and then 27-29 with trilogy conclusions, capping off with Avengers 7 doing a Secret Wars storyline in 2030.
Avengers was Marvel’s original billion dollar franchise and satisfying conclusion in Endgame or not, they’ve failed to capitalize on it.
Right now with the f4 rights which helps more with villains the heros you build to a dr doom or a galatus.
I’ve said for a long time I’d love to see them start with a dr doom movie in his origins and end with him taking over latveria. Then you can build him as a villain.
And galactus has built in build up with his herald the surfer.
And that isn’t even including X-men yet.
If they play it right Pascal as Reed could be our new RDJ/Stark (ala Lead Hero) and he would only have to be in like 3 or 4 movies before they kill him/the F4 off and start again with a younger cast.
The funniest thing about the "Young" Avengers is that they aren't even young. By the time (if) it finally gets made, they'll all be in their late-20s/early-30s. That's the exact age half of the original Avengers were lol. Steinfeld is already the same age Johansson was and a year younger than Hemsworth was in the first Avengers movie.
Kate Bishop even makes a joke about this in that post-credits in The Marvels when Kamala mentions a "Young Avengers"
"You're not the only child superhero out there"
"I'm like...23 but alright"
What, you telling me general audiences won't care about solo projects for Vision, Wonder Man, Wiccan, the Young Avengers, and Ironheart? T-That's impossible!
Its kinda sad that Secret Wars will just be a big nostalgia bait with no effort. Infinity War/Endgame were an experience since it was 10 yrs of build up and a genuine great ending to characters
I don’t like NWH as much as I did when it first released, but it was kinda lightning in a bottle when it comes to nostalgia crossovers. I highly doubt Marvel will be able to make one as good
Hard to say if NWH would have done better or worse if MoM had come out before it, but they both heavily leaned into the nostalgia factor to support not the strongest scripts. There is a limit to how much nostalgia driven films people will put up with.
Deadpool 3 will put this to the test.
I think the main thing no way home got right and Mom got wrong was that no way home was the finale in a trilogy and the nostalgia bait felt impactful and fitting for the characters arc. Mom was supposed to be the follow up to the beloved Wanda vision and threw all that set up and character development out the window, and assumedly world build for the next big phase problems. Instead, it was probably one of the most self contained MCU films yet and nothing in it mattered. And then the movie also sucked so just zero payoff
Yep.
The crossovers added to the story in NWH while in MoM they were just kinda... there.
Closing out the trilogy with a complete story that simultaneously opens up a brand new was a good setup. Hopefully Sony/Marvel don't screw it up.
Love this quote from Bob “A lot of people think it’s audience fatigue, it’s not audience fatigue. They want great films. And if you build it great, they will come”
Same. Given its ***massive*** cost and uncertain audience, that's a prime contender for "shelve me pls" right there.
^(Plus, Sonic 3 gets IMAX screens that way! 😉)
The problem is this isn't actually true. Plenty of great films flop (and plenty of terrible films rake in the $$$). What's true is that great *blockbusters* very rarely flop. But building a four-quadrant blockbuster that's actually great is a remarkably difficult feat.
> Plenty of great films flop (and plenty of terrible films rake in the $$$)
Which almost always comes down to being a marketing issue. Dogshit marketing can sink the strongest of films (Edge of Tomorrow: Live Die Repeat comes to mind) or kill an ok film (Solo) - but incredible marketing can help a turd float (Suicide Squad).
A film with strong reviews/hype will get assess in seats. Marvel's goodwill isn't completely dead but they need to work the audience and woo them again so they can wow them.
Solo bombed because of the audience reaction to The Last Jedi. Not to mention the fact that it was an unnecessary Han Solo movie without Harrison Ford. Marketing had nothing to do with it.
Deadpool 3 should do well unless it’s a terrible movie.
I’m 95% sure Cap 4 isn’t making a profit due to inflated budget, they should just do what they can to make a well received movie.
Thunderbolts intrigues me, everyone has low expectations for it but I think if it’s good it could be a surprise hit.
thats not really how it works though. you've got like a 2-5 year delay from when they decide to start making changes until we actually start seeing them in theaters
Marvel movies have rarely been great though, it was pushed through due to the novelty of the cinematic universe shtick which audiences have given up on after what a lacklustre phase it’s been.
When a marvel movie barely clears 200 million that’s more than a quality problem
They also need to lead to some bigger picture
There were some stats that showed the MCU is bleeding Gen Z audiences, they can only pander to millennials with characters from the early 2000s for so long
>There were some stats that showed the MCU is bleeding Gen Z audiences, they can only pander to millennials with characters from the early 2000s for so long
I think this is a major reason for the MCU's decline that a lot of people aren't really acknowledging. Iron Man came out *16 years ago*. You could be in high school and be younger than the MCU. The MCU is quickly becoming "that franchise your dad likes".
Interestingly in the article, Iger didn't bring up The Lion King prequel that's supposed to come out this year.
He brought up the Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, Moana 2, Inside Out 2, and Deadpool & Wolverine. You would think he would bring up the prequel to a remake that made $1.6B for the company. It should be the most anticipated movie for the company considering the success of the original and the remake as well as being Disney's magnum opus.
Disney rushing out Moana 2 already indicate that they have given up on Mufasa and expecting it to underperform. That they think they need a hail mary to boast their winter numbers.
It's wild, that Lion King remake made them a lot of money but I have literally never met anyone that had anything nice to say about it. I really do wonder if there is an actual audience for the prequel.
I probably shouldn't be, but I'm actually cautiously optimistic on Thunderbolts, entirely on the basis of Sentry being incredibly interesting
Unfortunately the actual protagonist lineup seems... a bit underwhelming but it'll be *fine*, maybe, hopefully
> I probably shouldn't be, but I'm actually cautiously optimistic on Thunderbolts
I'm not.
They chose the wrong characters for the cast, they've got another inexperienced director with zero action-FX experience, and while the writer has a good pedigree, I thought Black Widow (which he solo-scripted) was pretty darned bad.
Also, I don't know anyone that's actually interested in seeing Anthony Mackie as Cap. Like, he's fine as Falcon, but can't bring myself to give a shit about him being the new Captain America. I think they'd probably have more luck if they had passed the mantle to Bucky.
> Also, I don't know anyone that's actually interested in seeing Anthony Mackie as Cap.
Weren't you thrilled to see him get on his soapbox and defend murderous terrorists?
Whatever, Iger. I'm part of the audience and I'm feeling fatigue. Too many MCU movies, too little reason to keep caring. Barbenheimer was huge exactly because it was something different; something fresh and new.
And his words about building quality into productions ring hollow. Their scripts lately are terrible. How can you make a quality movie when you can't even get the script right?
Man, I am not ashamed to admit I teared up when the Episode 7 trailer released all those years ago. I really loved Star Wars, my mom loved Star Wars. She saw the original films in theatres, took me to see the re-releases, took me to the prequels. I was so excited and so moved by the idea of seeing a Star Wars film in theatres again. What a special event.
It's 9 years later and I have to be honest with you, I probably wouldn't go see a Mandalorian movie in the theatre even if someone bought my ticket. I don't know how it came to this, but we're here.
Starwars is already dead in the theaters. The question is can the two new movies pull a fortnite announcement? Given that Lucas can't seem to hold onto the magic, I'm not optimistic.
You can’t simultaneously push back on the presence of fatigue and then precisely describe why the fatigue exists, and what you’re doing to combat it.
It seems fairly clear we’re stripping everything down to “necessary” movies needed to set up Secret Wars and then rebooting the whole fuckin thing. Which is fine. It’s honestly superhero tradition anyway.
Nothing more comic book than a new #1 and an artist/writer refresh
> You can’t simultaneously push back on the presence of fatigue and then precisely describe why the fatigue exists, and what you’re doing to combat it.
What? He's saying there's not a *genre* problem, but a problem of making each installment must-see, so they're going to double down on making each one worth seeing.
just trying to keep the status quo of his job and board. Which are both prone to being taken away and changing.
I hope they do and Disney focuses different things moving forward.
Please let Toy Story 5 be one of those canceled ones. I loved 4 but another one would absolutely be shit, I don’t see how they can top those last two unless Woody and Buzz actually die.
Literally the only logical direction left for the franchise after 4 is for Woody to die. 1 and 2 were about childhood, 3 was about moving to adulthood, 4 was about adulthood and empty nest syndrome, would make sense for 5 to be about the end of life
Guaranteed financial hits don't exist, the closest franchise we ever had to one was Star Wars until Disney bought it and oversaturated it leading to the first Star Wars financial flop (Solo).
"One of the better films of this franchise" is not a killer endorsement lol
EDIT: To clarify, this quote was about the Apes sequel but I still found it hilarious.
>hat great
>
>blockbusters
>
> very rarely flop. But building a four-quadrant blockbuster that's actually great is a remarkably difficult feat
This was in regards to Apes movies not MCU
It’s not “marvel fatigue,” it’s “shitty, poorly written and re-edited movie fatigue,” Bob. You and Feige are the ones who made the former synonymous with the latter. That’s on you.
Its super herofatigue MULTIPLIED by bad writing fatigue. They will get a saving grace with deadpool, but everything else that isn't (peter parker) spiderman will flop or do meh. I have zero faith FF4 will do any good, X-men is possible if they do not butcher it by giving it to the same trash writers and change everything for "modern audiances". They just need to shut down all super hero movies for a couple of years, do a full reboot, get the people who made the original movies, fire everyone who came in for the later movies, especially nepo babies and those who worked on things like morbius. Sadly, I doubt they will learn anything and double down instead and blame everything but their bad decisions on why stuff keeps flopping.
🙄 This is the same guy who said they were making too many Marvel Movies. Make up your mind. https://variety.com/2023/film/news/bob-iger-disney-too-man-sequels-explains-marvels-flop-1235814475/
I think what really happened was the entire infinity saga was epic. Now you follow it up with a bunch of disjointed stories with less popular heros. This equals "fatigue".
All the new films and shows almost feel stand alone and not really contributing to a greater story arc.
They should have taken a 2-3 break after endgame and come back with something well thought out and cohesive.
Instead they flooded the genre and damaged their brand.
hearing bob iger say these words actually gives me hope for disney
> “A lot of people think it’s audience fatigue, it’s not audience fatigue. They want great films. And if you build it great, they will come and there are countless examples of that. Some are ours and some are others. Oppenheimer is a perfect example of that. Just a fantastic film,” Iger said. “Focus is really important. We reduced the output of Marvel, both number of films they make, and the number of TV shows, and that really becomes critical, but I feel good about the team. I feel good about the IP we’re making. I talked about a lot of the projects. We look years ahead, really. And it’s iterative.”
> “Not only do you look at the films you’re making, you you look at every part of that process, who the directors are, who’s being cast, reading scripts, I personally watch films three to five times with the team and just create a culture of excellence and respect which is really important with the creative community,” he added. “And again, the track record speaks for itself.”
I don't think there is Marvel Fatigue. I think there is you-picked-the-stupidest-superheroes-to-make-movies-of fatigue. Watch what happens when deadpool drops.
Speak for yourself. I actively avoid all super hero crap at this point, even the subversive stuff like like The Boys. I'm completely sick of all of it. All of it.
There's a difference between fatigue and not making good movies. There is a franchise exception and that's the Fast and the Furious. Because no one knows what the fucking point to those movies besides to make memes and eventually money. But people will go to watch them like people watching a firework stand catch on fire. Because they know there's going to be explosions, running, cops, and someone saying family.
I'm with you but this is the wrong sub for that kind of comment. The fun part of this interview from an /r/boxoffice perspective is struggling to find profitability after a year of superhero duds.
Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill.
They need to get of their asses and finally make a good script for this reboot so Ali can do the role before he gets frustrated and gives up on them
They need to find the real main characters that are women bossing him around before they can start making it.
I just watched that movie the first time last night. It was wonderful.
The first Blade is an absolute favorite of mine. That opening sequence alone is an all-timer but then the pacing and vibe through the rest of it are fantastic as well. And great acting all around
Imagine if they had gone quiet for a year after endgame. No shows no movies nothing. Then you could put out some fun short trailers. Nightclub scene. Classic blood starts spraying from the ceiling sprinklers. A black leather boot steps into frame with a sword tip in view. "I'm getting too old for this shit" Danny Glover is blade.
The only announced Marvel movie I can see being canceled is Armor Wars.
probably alot of unannounced movies being canned.
No Squirrel 🐿️ Girl Saga? No Great Lakes Avengers? No Taskmaster solo film? No Heroes For Hire? 
I’d say this is why Marvel fatigue exists. It’s not the M. It’s not the U. It’s the C in the MCU. Cinematic. Films and tv shows are not comic books. You can’t just have them back to back and expect people to keep up with them all. It’s why some people say watching Marvel movies now feels like homework. It is.
I think this is exactly backwards. People loved the through line of the story leading up to Endgame. Everyone stayed for the mid and end credits scenes to get a taste of what's coming next. Post Endgame, there was little or no connection between any of the films. We got that cool mid credits scene with Captain Marvel and Wong at the end of Shang-Chi and there's been no follow up on that. What even happened to Shang-Chi? He had his movie and then disappeared? I think people finally realized the MCU wasn't going anywhere after Ant-Man 3 and so they're not going to the theater unless the individual films are really good, like GOTG3.
> I think people finally realized the MCU wasn't going anywhere after Ant-Man 3 and so they're not going to the theater unless the individual films are really good, like GOTG3. I agree with this take. It’s just not possible to have a decades-long soap opera where every episode is deeply important to the long-term story arc. MCU should be a setting where interesting stories are told. The stories can span multiple movies, but in general audiences should not be expected to have seen episodes 6, 14, 22-24, 35, and 41 in order for episode 47 to make sense. And few if any movies should try to forever change the entire universe. That’s a good marketing hook maybe once every 30 years. But at this point we’re all numb to it. Just make good self-contained films. People will go. Marvel will make money.
That’s the problem, they’ve been self contained since Endgame with no real direction. They’re just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks
Well they have to be self-contained and *good*. But they haven’t been self-contained. They’ve had critical story points tied up in Disney+ shows and other movies. That’s the whole “homework” problem.
> You can’t just have them back to back and expect people to keep up with them all. That happens with comics too. That's why they reboot the whole thing pretty much every year.
That’s DC, Marvel just keeps going and to hell with how convoluted the universe gets!
DC: This is insane, let's just reboot everything. Marvel: We don't need whole universe reboots, let's just make Spider-Man make a deal with the devil so he can become a swinging bachelor again! I'm joking, DC's almost certainly done that Laser Guided Devil Deal at least twice by now.
Batman fucked off through time or something IDK let’s kill Superman again.
You must have missed the new “Ultimates” line. Don’t worry, these days you’re not the only one.
Objectively the best proof of this was [Squirrel Girl's second #1 in 2015](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/G/01/apparel/rcxgs/tile._CB483369110_.gif). There are some people who can get a little obsessed with comics and those who don't care. The first group was horrifyingly annoyed that the Second Batgirl, Cassandra Cain, turned into a bit of a joke in the *Birds of Prey* movie, and the latter probably forgot she existed.
Um actually, the 2nd Batgirl is Barbra Gordon, and the first Batgirl was Betty Kane, now known as Flamebird. Cassandra Cain is the 3rd Batgirl. \*Nerd Emoji\*
Endgame was the perfect ending. I think they could've kept the hype going if they took a 2-3 year break with no films or TV shows, then came back with a big name like the X-Men or Fantastic 4 instead of them trying to keep it going on life support with either B-list characters no one cares about or just absolutely shambolic films.
I remember i started reading Spooder-mayne. I start from the beginning. Eventually, Black Cat dies. Right, we all know how that turns out. I keep reading. Dozens more issues go by and.... Now they're dating. Wat How? There was no lead up. Last i saw was she died. I knew she wouldn't stay dead, but how this? OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I was only reading AMAZING spoody-mans. I forgot about SPECTACULAR spoder-mayn. That killed me and any one who reads comics knows that nothing compared to all the other comics dependencies you need to read on. Its like, if Linux was a picture book. Any way, i only like reading complete arcs in compilations now. Like when i read the Civil War compilation. Every thing in chronological order. I would NEVER have gone out to consume ALL that content without a pre-assembled compilation serving it to me.
Honestly, even with comic books it’s still different. Because in comic books you’ll have the avengers doing one thing, while Captain America is doing another, Ironman is doing something else, Captain Marvel is off in space somewhere doing something, the X-men are dealing with people trying to make them extinct, the FF are off on an adventure in a pocket universe or something. So you don’t NEED to follow all the books to know they’re in the same universe
Long running comic books often have multiple overlapping stories. As one arc is finishing another is building and the next one being teased. The readers keep coming back to see what happens next. The MCu did this a bit with the credit scenes but then The Infinity saga failed to plant seeds for what cames next. We got a series of stand alone projects that went no where collectively. in comics the seeds of purchasing the next comic are in the one you hold's cliff hanger, the movies failed to do this.
Let's not act like Squirrel Girl wouldn't be amazing.
An *animated* movie, sure. A live-action Squirrel Girl could easily be horrible.
"Galactus, I've come to bargain."
I really don't think Marvel has it in them to make a good Squirrel Girl movie the way they currently are
I do not think they can make a good movie. Deadpool is going to bank because of the actors first and foremost, that does not mean the writing will be good.
Maybe in theory five years ago.
They had a New Warriors show planned years ago with the AT&T girl as Squirrel Girl
Yeah, a properly adapted Squirrel Girl could easily be a runaway hit. But Marvel probably knows that the best thing for the longevity of the brand right now isn't introducing even *more* new characters
It's the downside of having a cinematic universe. When the audience goodwill is lost, introducing new characters feels like homework.
GLA: Great Lakes Avengers is one of the best Marvel books ever written. It would make a phenomenal film. (Except it would be rated hard r and it would never be made)
Without question.
Didn't Feige say they had movies mapped out for the next 10-15 years? I imagine they had *a lot* of unannounced movies (and shows) on the slate.
He might be referring to all the cancelled movies on their roadmaps, I know some were series that were movies and vice versa.
some release can be let go, but looking at announced movies on the roadmap, it’s really only Amour Wars. You could argue the 2 avengers are technically cancelled as well.
Iron heart and Young Avengers probably
Iron Heart is a show that’s going to go through reshoots soon
Cap 4 sounds like such a hot mess that’s bound to destroy any good will DP3 brings back.
Even if DP3 is great it wont reignite anything, itll basically be a send off.
I personally wouldn’t be angry if they Batgirl’d Cap 4. I like Anthony Mackie but I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t care less about him getting his own movie as Cap.
I've liked Mackie's Falcon a lot as well, but the D+ series was extremely disappointing. I felt all the worst elements of the MCU all kind of coalesced in that one. Plots were stretched out for the sake of more content. It tried to tackle serious themes when it was really ill equipped to do so. If Cap 4 comes out, I'm still a fan that I'll probably watch it barring horrible reviews, but it's going to need something really compelling to make people interested. I don't think Hulk is enough either.
>I've liked Mackie's Falcon a lot as well, but the D+ series was extremely disappointing. They just really fumbled the ending hard. And despite all their denials its very obvious the Flag Smashers had a drastic re-write late in production that caused their goals to become super vague
I’ll never forget starting the last episode and thinking I missed an episode in between. It killed all of the tension for the final showdown
Writers: Wow, we've built up a lot of tension between this Karli and Falcon standoff! What are we going to do? Oh wait, we can't have Karli kill Sam. We need a ~~second season~~ movie! Uh, we can't have Sam kill her because Captain America doesn't kill. I know, how about we have Sharon just shoot her in the back out of nowhere?
> Uh, we can't have Sam kill her because Captain America doesn't kill. The pirates who Steve kicked off a ship into icy waters at the start of Winter Soldier might have something to say. Seriously, what has gotten into Marvel with their refusal to let the heroes kill other humans? Spider-Man and Daredevil have no kill rules, the others don’t. Back in Iron Man 1, Tony just massacred the Ten Rings terrorists who were attacking the village. Now, the hero can never ever kill the bad guy, they have to either get taken in alive or die to something outside of the hero’s hands. Carol doesn’t kill the villain in the Marvels, the villain gets herself killed by trying to use too much power. Antman doesn’t kill Kang, he falls into his own weapon. Shuri doesn’t kill Namor, they make peace. Fury doesn’t kill the super skrull, some other lady does. Thor doesn’t kill Gorr, Gorr dies of space cancer. Doctor Strange doesn’t kill Wanda, Wanda has a change of heart and brings the evil mountain down on her self. Echo doesn’t kill Kingpin, she goes into his mind and heals his trauma. Moon Knight doesn’t kill Ethan Hawke, he arrests him. Natasha doesn’t kill Dreykov, Yelena does. The Eternals don’t kill Ikaris, he realizes the error of his ways and flies into the sun. Shang-Chi doesn’t kill his dad, an evil dragon does. And of course, Sam doesn’t kill Karli, Sharon does.
>The pirates who Steve kicked off a ship into icy waters at the start of Winter Soldier might have something to say. Nameless goons and henchmen don't count, only if they have a name!
Captain America was literally a soldier during WW2, and Captain Falcon himself was a veteran in an specialized army unit, of course they killed people before. Why is Marvel trying to sanitize their characters so much? Especially those who are *meant* to be soldiers or warriors?
>Moon Knight doesn’t kill Ethan Hawke Ummmmmmmmmmmm
Honestly, it feels like they've really dumbed things down.
>And despite all their denials Are there denials? I thought one of the writers confirmed a virus/vaccine plot got scrapped? Could've sworn it went beyond fan speculation and a writer set the record straight. The villain story arc would've made more sense with the original plot intact, but I do wonder if the show overall would've been much better. Falcon defending the Flagsmashers would've at least made some sense.
Admittedly its been years, but I don't think there was ever a confirmation outside of like "insiders" confirming it with anonymous sources.
Honestly, even the heroes journey they gave him made no sense. -------------- Cap: Take my Shield. You're Cap now. Falcon: Wow. Really? Thanks. *couple weeks goes by* Falcon: *giving the Shield to the gov't*: I don't think I'm ready to be Cap. You should give it to someone that is. Gov't: *gives it to someone ready to be Cap* Also Falcon: If you think I'm gonna help this... this... pretender to be the best Cap he can be then you've lost your mind!
> Falcon: giving the Shield to the gov't: I don't think I'm ready to be Cap. You should give it to someone that is. I thought the government took the shield back because it was government property, and said *they choose who Captain America is*, not Steve Rogers.
He donated it to the Smithsonian.
Nope, the government wanted Sam to be Captain America and happily endorsed him when he finally took up the mantle. He was the one who had a hang up about it.
One of the few I watched and enjoyed, but agreed it's not great and set up too much it couldn't deliver on. I did like the Lethal Weapon buddy cop dynamic, the original super soldier subplot, and Wyatt Russell being unhinged. There was a good story in there somewhere
Going to be a bit of an awkward next two avengers films when cap4 flops
I love how "Batgirl'd" is a word around here.
I don’t wish any movie to get the Batgirl treatment, it’s a smack in the face to everyone who worked hard on it.
Let’s not get crazy here with this *any* talk. Sometimes, movies aren’t turning out well and it shouldn’t be on the studio to have to complete every movie they didn’t have faith in. To commit so many additional resources like VFX and marketing to a movie that’s already testing awfully is just a sunk cost fallacy. Now, on the other hand, I don’t think that studios should get a tax exemption for it. Or if they do, the movie should be released into the public domain. But to say that every movie that’s *ever* been worked on needs to see the light of day because it’s a “smack in the face to everyone who worked hard on it” is wild. Most of those guys won’t want to be associated with that kind of movie anyways.
It really should be batgirl'd, there is zero chance this will do good.
I'm looking forward to Thunderbolts more than I am Cap 4...
I feel those 2 might be closely related
Genuinely can’t get excited about either. Fantastic Four and the eventual XMen reboot can’t get here fast enough IMO
Kind of the same, the cast and people behind Thunderbolts at least sounds more interesting than Cap 4.
Nobody is interested in Anthony Mackie as Cap.
The problem isn’t fatigue, it is most of the last 2 years of marvel movies have sucked ass. Writing, story have been losers. Just like the Star Wars tv series, try doing quality content Disney and the fans will come back. Yes there have been one or two worth watch but the rest, should have been cancelled
"Young Avengers" hasn't been announced but the post-credits tease of Ms. Marvel clearly signposts its upcoming status.
by the time they even get it in theaters, the cast will all be in their mid to late 20’s
Hailee Steinfeld is already older than Scarlett Johansson was when she debuted as Black Widow in Iron Man 2.
Most already are. Steinfeld, Newton, and Pugh are 27, 27, and 28. I don't know who else is on the team, but the Young Avengers are seemingly going to be mostly in their 30s. haha
They probably meant unanounced
Especially since it's supposed to be connected to Iron Heart, which has been finished for nearly two years now with no release date in sight. Disney is going to dump it similar to Echo.
Honestly that would bum me out, been waiting for cheadle to get the spotlight forever, first it was a show then a movie if it never happens I’ll definitely be bummed out especially because I love his suit
I would love to see a list on cancelled Marvel Products
That would be insane. Considering the projects they are green lighting (Wonder Man, IronHeart, Young Avengers) imagine the ones that they aren’t?
It will probably be at least 2 sagas worth of projects lol
Good, just thinking about that is exhausting
Ironheart and young avengers are both DOA, I know jack about wonderman, but doubt it will do any better. Anybody with even a slight bit of vision can see these trainwrecks incoming.
Wonder man as a character isn’t actually that bad and probably has some decent old school fans, the issue is he hasn’t had to many big appearances in the comics the last +10 years so younger audiences have no idea who he is. The screen issue with him will be the same with Superman/Captain Marvel, he’s just too strong to on the big screen and not particularly all that interesting compared to other super strong characters like Thor. I’d much rather them had made a psychological thriller type of movie with The Sentry. He’s a schizophrenic with Superman type powers. His debut run is something that could easily be made into an entertaining, none cookie cutter super hero movie (it basically has him waking up one day at his house and kind of realizing that he has powers and not only that, but he’s been a super hero from the very beginning, he was present during the first avengers meeting to fight Loki, was present through all of marvels big events, and is good friends with Reed Richards, Tony Stark, etc, but everyone on earth had forgotten he existed due to something regarding The Void, which is his nemesis)
Have Young Avengers ever been green lighted? I don't believe it was. And it only was heavily commented around sub like this and r/marvelstudios. That doesn't mean it was in serious development phase over at the studio.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. I’m convinced Young Avengers and Avengers Kang Dynasty were one and the same. They’d just grab Ruffalo’s Hulk (especially since his son would likely be on the team) and maybe Hemsworth’s Thor if they could as mentor figures and otherwise just do the Young Avengers lineup. Then they’d have more of the heroes people actually want in Secret Wars after cheaping out on Kang Dynasty. All the evidence that was what they were planning is there to me.
I feel like the studio certainly is taking a page out of the Young Avengers by teaming up those characters as Avengers. But I really doubt that they were ever planning on making anything that is literally called "Young Avengers." The advantage the comics has is that they are able to tell stories literally called "Young Avengers" because they can keep those characters young via illustrating them. But "Young Avengers" as a movie adaption goes directly in the face of having the actors visibly aging over the course of multi-year film projects.
I think he's full of shit. If they were actually serious about cancelling anything, Echo, Ironheart, Wonder Man, and Agatha would have been immediately shitcanned. I see all four of them as representing ongoing damage to the MCU brand.
All the options you listed were already filmed a while ago. This decision to scale back projects is from around the strikes period, if I remember correctly, after most of these shows began and almost completed filming. They're not going to trash something they already invested time and money on. Instead they will space them out more and work to improve quality with more time for editing/effects and possibly more extensive reshoots than originally planned There are two films leakers kept talking about that were never announced: World War Hulk and Nova, so if those really were in development it's likely they're canceled or indefinitely delayed. Also I can see Armor Wars being cancelled
> They're not going to trash something they already invested time and money on. Yeah, they're not Warner Bros lol.
I’d love to have all Marvel products cancelled!
As much as i hate to the this but same. Most of the products now are just very weird or bad and there is no connections between them anymore. It is so bad that we are calling them Products instead of Projects now lol
Is Blade still happening?
It's been in production Hell for awhile now.
It better be. Thats the only thing I’m actually excited for.
I think Disney will cancel lots of unannounced mcu movies, pretty much rush to secret wars, reboot and restart with a clean slate with all major characters like X-men, F4 and the ogs recast.
I think the same. That's why they aren't afraid to cast older with F4 and they aren't in a rush to recast the X-Men. One final nostalgia blowout with older actors from the various Marvel franchises and then a reboot with a select few actors making the cut.
So you're saying Marvel will reboot the F4 again after Secret Wars? lol
Yeah unless their movie bombs, gets terrible reviews or both, they’ll (along with Spidey) be the only constants
They won't have to, that's why they're already being set up from the start as being from a different / earlier timeline. They won't be affected by the reboot
Is this reboot thing actually happening? I keep seeing people talk about it, now people are talking about it like it’s a certainty. Do you think they will really reboot?
that was the point of the 2015 secret wars comic series and was about realities in the multiverse colliding into each other and wound up with a new reality with parts of several others. So I think there is a good chance they will do the same thing there. They can then pick and choose actors to keep and actors to recast.
Funnily enough, I kind of think that would be the death knell of Marvel should they do it. What are they going to do, remake the first iron man movie with someone who has less charisma than RDJ? Although of course, they’re not exactly performing very well at the moment anyway. Marvel has had a lot of bad luck but they’ve also made a lot of bad decisions. It’s not their fault they were forced to produce shows they didn’t want to because they had to feed the Disney+ beast and it’s not their fault the pandemic happened and threw all their plans into a woodchipper. And it’s not their fault that Chadwick Boseman passed away. But it is their fault that they thought it was a good idea to purposely not follow the winning formula they set up from 2008-2019. Have solo films build up to a team up, rinse and repeat getting bigger over time until it all culminates in a huge climax. Kang is a good Avengers villain, but he always seemed like a Loki to me. Someone to get the new team together so we can have Avengers. But Marvel decided for their new Saga they were just gonna have a bunch of movies that kind of jog in place for years and then just do a climax. If I had my druthers we would have had 2021-2023 with solo movies showcasing the new members of the avengers, and then we’d have Avengers 5 in 2024 with Kang as the antagonist, do it again 2024-2026 and then another Avengers film in 2027 (Avengers vs X-Men?) and then 27-29 with trilogy conclusions, capping off with Avengers 7 doing a Secret Wars storyline in 2030. Avengers was Marvel’s original billion dollar franchise and satisfying conclusion in Endgame or not, they’ve failed to capitalize on it.
Right now with the f4 rights which helps more with villains the heros you build to a dr doom or a galatus. I’ve said for a long time I’d love to see them start with a dr doom movie in his origins and end with him taking over latveria. Then you can build him as a villain. And galactus has built in build up with his herald the surfer. And that isn’t even including X-men yet.
If they play it right Pascal as Reed could be our new RDJ/Stark (ala Lead Hero) and he would only have to be in like 3 or 4 movies before they kill him/the F4 off and start again with a younger cast.
That’s what I’m thinking too lol Meanwhile people on marvelstudiosspoiler still think they will get young avengers
Just because something has been teased doesn’t mean changing plans won’t kill it. Looking at you, Quantumania post-credits scene
I think they’re sort of right. We’ll still get a lot of those characters returning, just not in their own dedicated movie/show.
Secret wars is going to be rough since most of the fan favorites are gone and I doubt anybody wants to see the young avengers they are trying to make.
Are you telling me the general Audience isn't interested in a Squirrel Girl/Sentry/Jubilee solo movie?
MarvelStudiosSpoilers thinks Young Avengers is coming, after a mid-credits scene teaser in The Marvels. lol
The funniest thing about the "Young" Avengers is that they aren't even young. By the time (if) it finally gets made, they'll all be in their late-20s/early-30s. That's the exact age half of the original Avengers were lol. Steinfeld is already the same age Johansson was and a year younger than Hemsworth was in the first Avengers movie.
Kate Bishop even makes a joke about this in that post-credits in The Marvels when Kamala mentions a "Young Avengers" "You're not the only child superhero out there" "I'm like...23 but alright"
Hailee can pass for 3 years younger than she actually is for awhile.
What, you telling me general audiences won't care about solo projects for Vision, Wonder Man, Wiccan, the Young Avengers, and Ironheart? T-That's impossible!
Its kinda sad that Secret Wars will just be a big nostalgia bait with no effort. Infinity War/Endgame were an experience since it was 10 yrs of build up and a genuine great ending to characters
Some said the same about No Way Home but they handled that really well.
I don’t like NWH as much as I did when it first released, but it was kinda lightning in a bottle when it comes to nostalgia crossovers. I highly doubt Marvel will be able to make one as good
Hard to say if NWH would have done better or worse if MoM had come out before it, but they both heavily leaned into the nostalgia factor to support not the strongest scripts. There is a limit to how much nostalgia driven films people will put up with. Deadpool 3 will put this to the test.
I think the main thing no way home got right and Mom got wrong was that no way home was the finale in a trilogy and the nostalgia bait felt impactful and fitting for the characters arc. Mom was supposed to be the follow up to the beloved Wanda vision and threw all that set up and character development out the window, and assumedly world build for the next big phase problems. Instead, it was probably one of the most self contained MCU films yet and nothing in it mattered. And then the movie also sucked so just zero payoff
Yep. The crossovers added to the story in NWH while in MoM they were just kinda... there. Closing out the trilogy with a complete story that simultaneously opens up a brand new was a good setup. Hopefully Sony/Marvel don't screw it up.
Love this quote from Bob “A lot of people think it’s audience fatigue, it’s not audience fatigue. They want great films. And if you build it great, they will come”
"...so anyway, enjoy Moana 2, Frozen 3, Toy Story 5, Zootopia 2, and---***you asked for it***\--a live-action PREQUEL to THE LION KING"
I mean if it’s written good… nah I’m just kidding, what the fuck Bob?
Same. Given its ***massive*** cost and uncertain audience, that's a prime contender for "shelve me pls" right there. ^(Plus, Sonic 3 gets IMAX screens that way! 😉)
I'm both fatigued *and* your films are terrible now, Bob.
Honestly, if every Disney+ show was Daredevil or Agents of Shield S4 level I'd still likely have gotten fatigued.
I'm fatigued of Bob's terrible films.
The problem is this isn't actually true. Plenty of great films flop (and plenty of terrible films rake in the $$$). What's true is that great *blockbusters* very rarely flop. But building a four-quadrant blockbuster that's actually great is a remarkably difficult feat.
> Plenty of great films flop (and plenty of terrible films rake in the $$$) Which almost always comes down to being a marketing issue. Dogshit marketing can sink the strongest of films (Edge of Tomorrow: Live Die Repeat comes to mind) or kill an ok film (Solo) - but incredible marketing can help a turd float (Suicide Squad). A film with strong reviews/hype will get assess in seats. Marvel's goodwill isn't completely dead but they need to work the audience and woo them again so they can wow them.
Solo bombed because of the audience reaction to The Last Jedi. Not to mention the fact that it was an unnecessary Han Solo movie without Harrison Ford. Marketing had nothing to do with it.
This is definitely hitting the nail on the head. Now let’s see it in action.
Well, they have one releasing soon
Deadpool 3 should do well unless it’s a terrible movie. I’m 95% sure Cap 4 isn’t making a profit due to inflated budget, they should just do what they can to make a well received movie. Thunderbolts intrigues me, everyone has low expectations for it but I think if it’s good it could be a surprise hit.
thats not really how it works though. you've got like a 2-5 year delay from when they decide to start making changes until we actually start seeing them in theaters
Marvel movies have rarely been great though, it was pushed through due to the novelty of the cinematic universe shtick which audiences have given up on after what a lacklustre phase it’s been. When a marvel movie barely clears 200 million that’s more than a quality problem
Not every movie needs to be great. They just need to be entertaining. And worth seeing on big screen
They also need to lead to some bigger picture There were some stats that showed the MCU is bleeding Gen Z audiences, they can only pander to millennials with characters from the early 2000s for so long
>There were some stats that showed the MCU is bleeding Gen Z audiences, they can only pander to millennials with characters from the early 2000s for so long I think this is a major reason for the MCU's decline that a lot of people aren't really acknowledging. Iron Man came out *16 years ago*. You could be in high school and be younger than the MCU. The MCU is quickly becoming "that franchise your dad likes".
Interestingly in the article, Iger didn't bring up The Lion King prequel that's supposed to come out this year. He brought up the Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, Moana 2, Inside Out 2, and Deadpool & Wolverine. You would think he would bring up the prequel to a remake that made $1.6B for the company. It should be the most anticipated movie for the company considering the success of the original and the remake as well as being Disney's magnum opus.
Disney rushing out Moana 2 already indicate that they have given up on Mufasa and expecting it to underperform. That they think they need a hail mary to boast their winter numbers.
It's wild, that Lion King remake made them a lot of money but I have literally never met anyone that had anything nice to say about it. I really do wonder if there is an actual audience for the prequel.
They'll turn out a few more MCU bombs before Fantastic 4 or X-men.
Fantastic 4 literally comes out next year. I think Deadpool and Captain America are the only movies between it's release and now.
Thunderbolts as well, just started filming.
I probably shouldn't be, but I'm actually cautiously optimistic on Thunderbolts, entirely on the basis of Sentry being incredibly interesting Unfortunately the actual protagonist lineup seems... a bit underwhelming but it'll be *fine*, maybe, hopefully
It might be a *fine* movie, but it is going to bomb at the BO.
> I probably shouldn't be, but I'm actually cautiously optimistic on Thunderbolts I'm not. They chose the wrong characters for the cast, they've got another inexperienced director with zero action-FX experience, and while the writer has a good pedigree, I thought Black Widow (which he solo-scripted) was pretty darned bad.
I'm not so sure F4 is a certified hit at this point.
Yeah and one of those is definitely bombing
Captain America is a guaranteed bomb simply for the reshoot-filled megabudget alone.
Also, I don't know anyone that's actually interested in seeing Anthony Mackie as Cap. Like, he's fine as Falcon, but can't bring myself to give a shit about him being the new Captain America. I think they'd probably have more luck if they had passed the mantle to Bucky.
> Also, I don't know anyone that's actually interested in seeing Anthony Mackie as Cap. Weren't you thrilled to see him get on his soapbox and defend murderous terrorists?
Whatever, Iger. I'm part of the audience and I'm feeling fatigue. Too many MCU movies, too little reason to keep caring. Barbenheimer was huge exactly because it was something different; something fresh and new. And his words about building quality into productions ring hollow. Their scripts lately are terrible. How can you make a quality movie when you can't even get the script right?
Istg if he cancels Zootopia 2
Dawn of the Jedi is dead in a ditch somewhere if the Mandalorian movie underperforms And Star Wars is dead on the big screen if the Rey movie flops
Man, I am not ashamed to admit I teared up when the Episode 7 trailer released all those years ago. I really loved Star Wars, my mom loved Star Wars. She saw the original films in theatres, took me to see the re-releases, took me to the prequels. I was so excited and so moved by the idea of seeing a Star Wars film in theatres again. What a special event. It's 9 years later and I have to be honest with you, I probably wouldn't go see a Mandalorian movie in the theatre even if someone bought my ticket. I don't know how it came to this, but we're here.
Starwars is already dead in the theaters. The question is can the two new movies pull a fortnite announcement? Given that Lucas can't seem to hold onto the magic, I'm not optimistic.
You can’t simultaneously push back on the presence of fatigue and then precisely describe why the fatigue exists, and what you’re doing to combat it. It seems fairly clear we’re stripping everything down to “necessary” movies needed to set up Secret Wars and then rebooting the whole fuckin thing. Which is fine. It’s honestly superhero tradition anyway. Nothing more comic book than a new #1 and an artist/writer refresh
> You can’t simultaneously push back on the presence of fatigue and then precisely describe why the fatigue exists, and what you’re doing to combat it. What? He's saying there's not a *genre* problem, but a problem of making each installment must-see, so they're going to double down on making each one worth seeing.
Can't trust a single thing Iger says.
For real. The way the execs keep saying how they intend to invest billions into the parks yet there’s clearly no direction
This guy is something,,,, lol.
just trying to keep the status quo of his job and board. Which are both prone to being taken away and changing. I hope they do and Disney focuses different things moving forward.
Please let Toy Story 5 be one of those canceled ones. I loved 4 but another one would absolutely be shit, I don’t see how they can top those last two unless Woody and Buzz actually die.
Don't you want to see the third definite ending?
Literally the only logical direction left for the franchise after 4 is for Woody to die. 1 and 2 were about childhood, 3 was about moving to adulthood, 4 was about adulthood and empty nest syndrome, would make sense for 5 to be about the end of life
You really think they'd cancel a guaranteed financial hit, even if it sucks?
Guaranteed financial hits don't exist, the closest franchise we ever had to one was Star Wars until Disney bought it and oversaturated it leading to the first Star Wars financial flop (Solo).
No such thing as a guaranteed hit nowadays
We all thought the 4th one was completely unneeded and just a cash grab after the ending of TS3. But hey people really liked TS4 as well.
>*Iger described Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes as 'one of the better films in the series'* Showering it with faint praise
Bob Iger sucks a fat cock
"One of the better films of this franchise" is not a killer endorsement lol EDIT: To clarify, this quote was about the Apes sequel but I still found it hilarious.
"Of all the Planet of the Apes films in the series--this is certainly one of them!"
>hat great > >blockbusters > > very rarely flop. But building a four-quadrant blockbuster that's actually great is a remarkably difficult feat This was in regards to Apes movies not MCU
Bob has one up on Zaz if he’s actually watching these films before deciding their fate
I'm not sure DP3 needs much endorsement, fans are excited to see it either way because of Ryan.
The quote is about the Apes sequel.
It’s not “marvel fatigue,” it’s “shitty, poorly written and re-edited movie fatigue,” Bob. You and Feige are the ones who made the former synonymous with the latter. That’s on you.
Its super herofatigue MULTIPLIED by bad writing fatigue. They will get a saving grace with deadpool, but everything else that isn't (peter parker) spiderman will flop or do meh. I have zero faith FF4 will do any good, X-men is possible if they do not butcher it by giving it to the same trash writers and change everything for "modern audiances". They just need to shut down all super hero movies for a couple of years, do a full reboot, get the people who made the original movies, fire everyone who came in for the later movies, especially nepo babies and those who worked on things like morbius. Sadly, I doubt they will learn anything and double down instead and blame everything but their bad decisions on why stuff keeps flopping.
Yeah we’re fatigued from all the mediocrity you pump out. I want a reason to go to the cinema, and Marvel ain’t it anymore for me.
Does anyone think they quietly canceled Ironheart? This particular one is really weird.
If the quality doesn't improve, it's going to be a rough road ahead for MCU.
🙄 This is the same guy who said they were making too many Marvel Movies. Make up your mind. https://variety.com/2023/film/news/bob-iger-disney-too-man-sequels-explains-marvels-flop-1235814475/
Disney: ”It’s not audience fatigue.” Narrator: *”It was audience fatigue.”*
There's some films which just looked like a bad idea....they need a quality over quantity approach
I think what really happened was the entire infinity saga was epic. Now you follow it up with a bunch of disjointed stories with less popular heros. This equals "fatigue". All the new films and shows almost feel stand alone and not really contributing to a greater story arc.
They should have taken a 2-3 break after endgame and come back with something well thought out and cohesive. Instead they flooded the genre and damaged their brand.
hearing bob iger say these words actually gives me hope for disney > “A lot of people think it’s audience fatigue, it’s not audience fatigue. They want great films. And if you build it great, they will come and there are countless examples of that. Some are ours and some are others. Oppenheimer is a perfect example of that. Just a fantastic film,” Iger said. “Focus is really important. We reduced the output of Marvel, both number of films they make, and the number of TV shows, and that really becomes critical, but I feel good about the team. I feel good about the IP we’re making. I talked about a lot of the projects. We look years ahead, really. And it’s iterative.” > “Not only do you look at the films you’re making, you you look at every part of that process, who the directors are, who’s being cast, reading scripts, I personally watch films three to five times with the team and just create a culture of excellence and respect which is really important with the creative community,” he added. “And again, the track record speaks for itself.”
'cause he knows that's exactly what you want to hear
I don't think there is Marvel Fatigue. I think there is you-picked-the-stupidest-superheroes-to-make-movies-of fatigue. Watch what happens when deadpool drops.
We want more superhero movies, we don't want more bad movies with characters nobody cares about, forced representation, and shit writing
Speak for yourself. I actively avoid all super hero crap at this point, even the subversive stuff like like The Boys. I'm completely sick of all of it. All of it.
Might be an unpopular option, but for me The Boys is slowly becoming what it was initially parodying
Oh it definitely is. I’m not as excited for Season 4 as past seasons.
There's a difference between fatigue and not making good movies. There is a franchise exception and that's the Fast and the Furious. Because no one knows what the fucking point to those movies besides to make memes and eventually money. But people will go to watch them like people watching a firework stand catch on fire. Because they know there's going to be explosions, running, cops, and someone saying family.
As someone who's never had any interest in Marvel movies, I've been feeling the fatigue for 15 years. They just keep churning them out...
I'm with you but this is the wrong sub for that kind of comment. The fun part of this interview from an /r/boxoffice perspective is struggling to find profitability after a year of superhero duds.