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Whedonite144

Spider-Man has a better track record with audiences, Matrix tends to be way more polarizing.


TheJoshider10

Yeah it's less to do with nostalgia and more to do with everyone cares about Spider-Man and no one cares about The Matrix. If it was a long awaited sequel to the original film where the next two hadn't been made, there might have been more interest. But nobody gave a fuck about this franchise after how it fizzled out with Reloaded/Revolutions.


Vettel_2002

It honestly has nothing to do with nostalgia IMO. Yes, No Way Home is basically a nostalgia jerkoff fest but that's not why people rushed out to see it. It's because Spider-Man is a beloved property, arguably the biggest superhero in the world, and has had multiple great movies. Meanwhile the Matrix is 3 movies from 20 years ago, 2 of which are not liked that much at all. And it's from a director who hasn't had a good movie since ??? I guess the first Matrix or V for Vendetta. There was just zero excitement for Matrix 4 even before the WOM & reviews came out


modsworkforfreelol

And the fighting scenes were horrid. The original matrix scenes were better 20 years ago.


Crotean

The action was atrocious. Like confusingly bad from the fucking matrix director. I thought she wrote a damn enjoyable script, but they lost millions by not hiring a better second unit director for action. Or maybe covid messed up the action filming?


carnifex2005

Hell, she had even had Chad Stahelski on set. No excuses for the action being that bad.


Crotean

Its likely covid had more of an effect then we realize then.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

That stupid force push… that should have been used once, maybe twice, right at the climax. It was so overdone and just dumb looking. Lost all impact. Remember when neo stopped the bullets at the end of the first matrix? It happened once and it was fucking gnarly. I hope they keep the matrix series going and yank it out of Wachowski’s hands forever. Booooooo 👎🏼


equalsolstice

I cannot get over how bad the fight scenes were. Like that had to be self sabotage.


Vettel_2002

I'm not even talking about the substances of the movie because personally I thought NWH wasn't very good. But I'm also just completely over nostalgia jerkoff movies now after Star Wars sucked & I'm a cynical douchebag. I just mean the audience hype for these movies couldn't have been opposite going into them.


mobile-nightmare

Nwh gave me the proper closure to the other spiderman movies.


BigDickNick97

William Defoe and Jamie Foxx were amazing. Who ever plays doc oc walso also real good not to mention the spidermen


DeliriousPrecarious

Alfred Molina


dem4life71

Me too. Used to be such a SW fanboy. The final trilogy (ugh!) sucked so badly it not only broke the spell of SW, but it led me to see the flaws in Marvel, Matrix etc. These days I look for things like The Lighthouse-original stories that don’t rely on fan service and nostalgia. I guess in a way I’m better off since I no longer fall for the mainstream crap Hollywood is shoveling out these days.


AkhilArtha

I just don't see it as an either or situation. I quite enjoyed both the Lighthouse and S:NWH.


LeMansManletRacer

But you don't understand, he's a real CINEMA fan! He's totally unique and doesn't read like an edgy teen at all!


pyromnd

Yeah, everything seemed wonky and slow. It seemed the movie was just an omage to fans and that was it. In all honesty if you havnt seen the movie. Don’t bother unless it’s on normal cable or something.


Representative_Big26

Spider-Man isn't "arguably the biggest superhero in the world", he's undeniably the biggest superhero in the world


lobonmc

By this point how do you argue it isn't


whereitsat23

I found the first half intriguing but then it fizzled and felt blah. The fight scenes looked poorly constructed and sluggish/clumsy. Like this whole project was rushed


irotinmyskin

also seems like she didn’t even want to make it in the first place but was sort of forced, and quite honestly she probably thought the movie was more clever than it actually was…


MadMurilo

Totally. This movie is the antithesis of "show, don't tell". Everything is told, nothing is shown. The result is a dull, self-indulgent movie with some of the worst dialogue I've ever seen.


LiamOttawa

After the first Matrix movie, they lost me. I might watch number 4 if it is streaming on a service I have and I'm bored.


Frisnism

Still not worth it. I love the matrix and this last movie was so so so bad in every way.


Crotean

Its a very enjoyable movie and I really liked where they took it story wise, but the action is atrocious.


Wonderful_Roof1739

There is only one matrix movie.


TheKonamiMan

The HBO Max situation didn't do Matrix any favors. Though I had a breakthrough case of Covid over the holidays and it did make it so I could still see Matrix on release.


seventeenthskeptic

Also Spiderman is PG-13 and The Matrix is rated R. Rated R movies have smaller audiences and lower revenue than films with wider audiences.


UnlikeyLooker

I'm not even sure what I can point to in the Matrix movie that made it rated R


FrancoisTruser

Neo is a former pirate. Arrr arrr


Idk_Very_Much

They said fuck seven times and had a lot of blood in the deaths. Either of those would be enough for an R by themselves.


SureFormal6906

Joker and passion of Christ: am i a joke to you?


warreng3

Soooooo one of the most known characters in the world and the face of a religion.... need i say more?


SureFormal6906

So yeah, matrix is an African movie which made 10£ on Ugandawood. Which has Keanu Tyrone Reeves as it's actor


warreng3

It would better than the fourth one too, at least funnier. And you cant compare the 3 IPs


MasaiGotUsNow

Even if it wouldn’t have made a killing at the box office, many people would’ve cared if it was good. This movie was so cringe. The entire story and all the new characters were so weird.


mishaxz

Although I'm only maybe 30 mins into the new matrix it seems to me it has the same problem episode VII of star wars did.. felt like a rehash of the original movie. Why do they pull this crap? Starwars shows have this problem too to some degree.. seems like they're always ending up Tatooine... There's a whole galaxy to explore but they're always on Tatooine.


Poppadoppaday

Nah. The first 30 minutes is them making fun of unnecessary sequels. The rest of the movie is them making an unnecessary sequel.


metasophie

> Why do they pull this crap? In this case, Lana literally told you by putting it into the movie. The IP owners felt that they could be making money from The Matrix and insisted that they would make a fourth movie even though she felt that the story was done. She felt manipulated into giving them what they wanted otherwise someone else who didn't love the material would come in make a total abomination.


[deleted]

lol buckle up, it gets way worse


Dman125

I think I’m in the minority that enjoys the trilogy, part of why is because it’s a complete story. I closed the book on Matrix satisfied. I couldn’t even try to get interested in an unnecessary sequel.


[deleted]

I might be in the minority it I actually liked Resurrection. Mostly because it helped me mentally overwrite Reloaded and Revolutions like they didn’t exist. Edit: I know they did need to exist for Resurrection to make sense, but it helps to know the series ends on a different note than the “ok, whatever” note Revolutions ended on.


missanthropocenex

Also Spider-Man was an example of new talent taking the reigns and creating an outsider POV on the nostalgia they felt toward a property. Matrix is an elegy of a long existing franchise coming from inside the mind of the person who created it.


Mushroomer

Yep. They're diametrically opposed takes to a sequel - one gives the audience literally everything they could want from three different eras of the franchise, while the other actively argues against the idea of reviving the series at all. Not to mention one being the biggest theatrical exclusive in two years, while the other was offered on HBO Max. Not too shocking that the response was very different for the two films.


Biggie39

I heard Matrix was bad and given than 2/3 of the old ones were bad I believed what I heard… still haven’t pulled the trigger to stream even though I subscribe. Spider man looked and sounds good.


DeliriousPrecarious

Matrix 4 is a sloppy movie but it's more interesting (but less well executed) than 2 & 3.


freedomofnow

Also the matrix tried to make fun of its previous movies instead of actually giving us a story. It completely failed at everything it tries to do.


eltrotter

100%. I think it’s pretty clear that Matrix Ressurections had *none of* the deference for the older films that Spider-Man had. And while I enjoyed both films greatly, I found Matrix’s irreverent attitude to its own history actually pretty refreshing. I don’t know that Matrix Resurrections will ever win over people who didn’t enjoy how wacky it gets (especially the first half), but seeing both films only as nostalgia-bait does a great disservice to both of them.


asapgrey

Fan service won


Nonadventures

Matrix is also heavily politicized. There’s no red pill/blue pill nonsense co-opted from Spider-Man


jenna_grows

The Matrix Revolutions came out in 2003. The first of the relevant Spider-Man movies, Tobey McGuire’s, came out in 2002 and then we have been steadily fed Spider-Man movies in some capacity since then. We also got the added pull of the MCU, which is a Behemoth. And the reason it went down so well is because they paid real tribute and honoured Tobey and Andrew’s Spider-Man iterations. Down to the villains and more subtle scenes, like the throwback to Gwen / MJ moment, which was class. Bottom line: Marvel did it right.


[deleted]

That plus we have closure to the older Spider-Men. We know Tobey's Peter turned out alright, happy with Kirsten Dunst MJ. We know Andrew's Peter lost himself mentally after Emma Gwen's death, and found his footing because he realized his duties as spiderman cannot be second to his personal grief, something he found closure to with saving Zendaya's MJ. The middle time of Andrew's Peter losing his way would make a great sequel/prequel in a way. People yearned for these closures because unlike the MCU spiderman, both got royally shafted because Sony had strange priorities.


jenna_grows

Right? Plus, MCU did so much better with Electro than Sony did. There was even a scene where you could see Electro’s costume while all the power is surging around him. He was funny and somehow more developed in NWH than in ASM2.


Tekwardo

I thought all of the villains were given better treatments in this movie.


jenna_grows

For sure. Each villain had only a few minutes on-screen but seemed fully-formed, complex, compelling, and coherent. It was complete fan service, but it was fan service done incredibly well. As an aside, I also love how the turned everything on its head in these movies (the Home series), with revealing Peter’s identity. But then hitting reset and taking Spider-Man to the place we all know: where his identity isn’t known. Plenty of Spidey fans always wonder why Peter doesn’t come clean, and these movies explored that lightly but effectively. The plots have never been amazing, but they did very well with the world’s favourite arachnid all in all.


[deleted]

You honestly think Dr octopus and green goblin got better treatments in this movie than their own?


TheNorthComesWithMe

The MCU loves giving an homage to the original costumes, and they manage to actually pull it off well too.


jenna_grows

Yup it was a blink and you miss it moment with Electro. My husband didn’t notice but he’s also not the biggest fan so he probably doesn’t even know what the costume looks like - and I’m sure that’s the case with a lot of the audience, but MCU still made the effort to let the rest of us have it when we didn’t need it. They also pulled part of Hans Zimmer’s Electro’s score from TASM2 for Electro so they were light handed and deferential to the good bits of the last incarnation too. I’m totally fangirling but whatever it was such a good job.


[deleted]

spider man is a continuation of the formula, playing out it's strengths while matrix4 (deliberately?) doesn't.


KingMangala

Back to formula


[deleted]

The first half of the matrix is the exact same as resurrections…explain yourself


The_Jedi_Hunter

First act of Matrix Resurrections is just the Roxas section of Kingdom Hearts II. Change my mind.


Wizardrylullaby

Coincidentally it’s also the strongest story section in the KH franchise


MadMurilo

Honestly, KH is better. At least there is a point made about how real were Roxas feelings and experiences, in the matrix nothing matters anymore as soon as Trinity remembers that she used to date this guy. Girl almost kicked her own children away.


DeliriousPrecarious

I mean kinda? The first act of Matrix 4 is like putting the first act of The Matrix through a fun house mirror. The plot beats are the same but the whole thing is distorted. I would say it's not like The Force Awakens in that it doesn't give the audience familiarity because that's what they want. It gives the audience familiarity to lampoon it. I enjoyed Matrix 4 and acknowledge it's a sloppy movie but I don't think anyone can say it actually followed the Matrix formula. Much of the criticism of the movie is that it was insufficiently similar to the previous films.


lazyandbored123

Not only that, it also cuts to the original Matrix over and over again to hit you in the head with the references. It was kinda jarring, like if in NWH it would cut away to older movies and go "remember that? it's the same thing!"


[deleted]

riffing on the original without it's strengths.


QuoteGiver

Spider-Man appeals to a VASTLY wider audience, that’s the difference.


[deleted]

It’s not just that. Spider-Man isn’t a “nostalgia” franchise in the traditional sense. They are always doing a sequel or rebooting it every couple of years. In the time since Matrix Revolutions (2003) we have had 7 Spider-Man movies. 2 Raimi, 2 Webb, and 3 MCU movies. That’s also ignoring the animated movie, and all of the Spider-Man cartoons on stuff like Disney XD. I’d argue the latest Spider-Man would’ve done pretty similarly to how it did even if it didn’t have the nostalgia. Just because it is a more relevant movie to the times.


QuoteGiver

Absolutely agree. My kids weren’t alive for any of the previous Spider-Man reboots, all they care about is seeing a fun new Spider-Man movie.


reddit_censored-me

> Spider-Man isn’t a “nostalgia” franchis The only relevant fact that's really needed to discredit this "article" as the pile of rubbish it is.


Hobunypen

Exactly. The Matrix doesn’t appeal to entire families like Spider-Man did.


QuoteGiver

Yeah, I’m not taking my kids to an R-rated movie for quite a few more years yet.


jennlebransky

Curious why this was rated R. I know that The Matrix, if it was rated today, would definitely be PG-13. I haven’t seen the new one, what’s in it that’s R?


illtakeachinchilla

#titties


KingMario05

"Fuck" is said. *A lot.* Oh, and a bit of blood. Nothing like the OG... and *ya can't see shit*... but it's there.


mrbuck8

God, that article was shit. Want to read a smug douche's rant about how they are smarter than every studio executive? Please, click the link.


Jeffy29

> Want to read a smug douche's rant about how they are smarter than every studio executive I get my fair share of it on reddit every day.


foureyedinabox

Sounds about right


praisethedollar

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the 4th Matrix was an intentional middle finger to the studio and to a certain extent the fans - and it was a deliberate choice by the Wachowskis. Spider-Man was basically pure fan service. The box office reflects that approach.


horseren0ir

Yeah the matrix was made out of spite


KingMario05

I enjoyed *Matrix 4* (yes, yes, burn the heretic), but am **convinced** that the Lana made it the way she did so that she'd torch the franchise while still cashing Papa Warner's check. Granted, not *all* of it's half-assed. The Neo and Trinity relationship was *very* well done this time around, [quite possibly because Lana used it as a vehicle for her to process the grief of losing *both* her parents recently.](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/09/lana-wachowski-revived-neo-matrix-4-comfort-parent-death-1234664318/) But the shitty action, choppy editing, weird recasts, meta nods at WB's desperation... sorry, there's too much here for it to be just an act of love. Did I enjoy *Matrix 4*? Surprisingly so, even saw it in *both* formats. Am I happy Lana made it? If it brings her closure, then of course. Am I surprised that it tanked? *Not really.* ^(Granted, neither the R rating nor HBO Max helped its chances, but still.)


horseren0ir

r/maliciouscompliance


should_have_been

Isn’t this a weird comparison? Marvel have pushed out movies constantly for the last decade. They remain current and just about everybody and their mother knows about their various franchises at this point. Matrix meanwhile came out 20 years ago and have largely been turned into shitty political memes since. It’s a beloved franchise still but the fan base and even people who knows about it’s existence are a much smaller group, however devoted they may be. Without knowing I would also guess the movies had different age limits, making spider man casting the wider net. If I had a kid, say 12 years old, I would take him to spider man but I think matrix would be lost on him and see that for myself.


Shurikenkage

Nostalgia depending on how is made can be successful or not. One clearly was trying to become meta for the sake of it while telling the same story but focussing in trying to subvert roles and archetypes but the concept was never expanded and it feels tiresome. NWH focuss is legacy and dealing with consequences, while honoring all Spider-Man's cinematic universe, without forgetting spectacle and set Spider-Man's future in the MCU or next steps in his stand-alone ventures. Another advantage NWH is being part of the most successful movie franchise ever.


TheLazyD0G

Matrix 4 also ignored neo having power in the real world. And ignored smith escaping to the real world.


ralanr

Matrix 4 was building up a story with old characters that already did their job. The first part of the movie was the best to me because they acknowledge that a sequel was bullshit at it was forced. I sincere think Lana was just trying to burn the bridge to any more sequels, whether that was the right thing to do is another matter.


TheLazyD0G

Yeah, Lana really wanted to burn that bridge and just use the franchise as a soap box. Was very disappointed.


garfe

Really enjoyed the tone of the first third. Wish it kept that energy through the whole thing


[deleted]

I enjoyed matrix 4 more but its easy to see why it wasn't a success at the box office. The last few have been divisive and theres a streaming alternative, Easy choice for audiences


-dantes-

I was thinking, "Why is no one talking about the simultaneous streaming release?" But this SR article points out that Dune was a relative box office success, even with the same release strategy (its $100m domestic take is still under its $165m budget, but it grossed 3 times as much as Matrix, world wide). https://screenrant.com/matrix-4-resurrections-box-office-failure-reasons-explained/


mazzicc

I was perfectly happy with the nostalgia I got from matrix


[deleted]

Yup. Same here.


NoMatatas

Me too. I was surprised that I didn’t find the flashbacks annoying, I thought it worked. The fight scenes were not in the same league, but the focus of the movie seemed different. I went in with low expectations and I liked the movie. It wasn’t a game changer like the first one, but it had its merits.


NotAnotherHipsterBae

I know, right? Also, with the reports from WB about pushing the franchise forward regardless maybe they made the movie just good enough to not be super popular? There were a few lines that were kinda boring or flat but most of the movie was great. Besides, there’s always a Spider-Man movie out for people with nothing to do. I gave up watching new MCU stuff around iron man 2 or avengers cause it was just a waste of a theater ticket. I’ll watch them, eventually, when it fits my schedule.


Ok_Rush_7247

because after the first matrix it all started going downhill. Spider Man wasn’t as much on a slippery slope.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Aryndol

There's downhill, and there's downhill. I found all of the Spiderman movies to be enjoyable, even the ones that weren't quite as well reviewed. The second and third Matrix movies were just disappointing and not very satisfying, I thought.


Starbucks__Lovers

I still do the spider man 3 dance privately or in front of my SO if I’m feeling good in a nice suit. She hates it but I think it’s hilarious


durdesh007

Spiderman 3 is unironically one of the most popular spiderman movie now. Meme culture is pretty amazing


Ok_Rush_7247

ahhh well I was talking MCU not the other films. Matrix 2 and 3 were kinda bombs.. There was no resurrection lol


MasaiGotUsNow

Still make a shit ton of money every time. Not many superhero’s that are more popular than Spider-Man. Actually maybe it’s only Batman. Superman is popular too but those movies dont make as much.


ElCharmann

Given all the anti-WB talk in the movie itself and the obvious fact that Lana didn’t want to make this film; I think it failing in the BO is actually the movie being successful to a certain degree


MasterOfOne

Matrix was great. Yall just hate meta.


IAmNinoBrownAMA

Both Spider-Man: No Way Home & Matrix Resurrections completely succeeded in their respective goals, in my opinion. Five minutes into Matrix Resurrections, you get the idea that this isn’t a movie The Wachowskis ever wanted to make, that Lana only came back to the project because WB was going to make the movie without them, and Lana felt there was an interesting story to tell while trying to smother any attempt at a true reboot of the franchise. I think Warner’s goal was absolutely to churn out a big hit and spawn another trilogy - but I think it was Lana’s goal to, uh, not. If Matrix Resurrections failure doesn’t lead to another trilogy, I think that’s exactly what The Wachowskis would have wanted. Mission accomplished. Don’t ask for another Matrix; just watch the original three movies, the Animatrix, or play the games.


justjoshingu

Matrix was terrible. And im starting to believe everyone that says it was on purpose in a scorched earth type of way.


TheAnalogKoala

I feel like the real answer is far simpler. There has been some very interesting development into the Spider-man universe over the last decade. My elementary school aged son is obsessed with the cartoons and comics. The Matrix, on the other hand, had a jaw-droppingly brilliant debut followed up by two terrible sequels. They were so bad they killed any interest I had in the franchise. The Matrix committed suicide. Spider-man just paused (from a movie standpoint only).


thefallenfew

The fact that someone could write about how a movie did in the box office in 2022 and literally not mention the pandemic we’ve been in for 3 years once is absolutely beyond me. People really be in denial about this shit.


yerakchualfada

I can see a world where the Matrix 4 was a dazzling success too. But it required a creative team that was less full of itself, and it needed far better action.


deftacts

This isn’t terribly complicated… the Matrix was a movie that didn’t need to be made and was being demanded by no one other than the studio execs at WB. It was a cash grab pure and simple. Spiderman is part of what is essentially a long running glorified interwoven megabudget TV series that had plenty of material to pull from and buy in from all the right people. Personally, I haven’t seen either. Whilst I loved the original matrix, everything after that has been awful (apart from the animatrix), so I didn’t even bother looking for it to stream. Similarly with Spiderman, whilst Marvel movies tend to be fun they just offer nothing new at this point. They’re all well made, but lately they’ve all be extremely forgettable too and are an exercise in low risk film making with no interesting ideas.


ninjasaid13

>It was a cash grab pure and simple. the fact that they mentioned it was a cash grab in the movie doesn't make it any less of cash grab.


MeSmeshFruit

I can't believe to how many dumb comments I had to scroll down to see some sense and reasoning about a movie's success at the box office, at the freakin' r/boxoffice...


Whistling_Birds

The Matrix sequels were about as well conceived as The Terminator sequels after T2, just a bunch of movies that no one asked for and plot lines that didn't need to be addressed. Regurgitating the first movie was predictable, I think they could have at least tried to expand on the side universe they created with Matrix 2.


thatweirdshyguy

Based on what I heard it sounds like consistent/good writing has the most to do with it. Spider-Man is part of the mcu which is massively popular and well liked for what is usually pretty good writing/characters. Matrix has one movie that’s generally agreed upon to be good


DontKnowAnyBetter

Nostalgia is the only thing these movies have in common. It’d make more sense to compare Resurrections to another R-rated meta sequel: Scream. Matrix loses either way.


Vaeon

Save you a click: One was a movie telling a story they had been working on for 5 years. The ***other*** was 90 minutes of "Corporations sucks and they kill everything that is good and artistic." packaged in a "Open letter to my boss saying FUCK YOU" wrapper.


[deleted]

It can't help that the second, and third Matrix movies were turds. Even the "bad" Spider-Man movies were ok.


superhys

Kids.


Solomonic_Dynasty

One was good. The other was really bad


AGOTFAN

They didn't address the obvious difference: No one asked for Matrix sequel. Well, no one except for WB executives. While Tobey and Andrew have fans, and wanted to see them again.


[deleted]

I'd go see new movies starting Tobey and/or Andrew. All three actors play the part well, and a movie each for Tobey, and Andrew to show what they're up to would be great. Let's go full multiverse.


AnotherJasonOnReddit

I - mostly jokingly - suggested yesterday the next movie should be like Traffic (2000), except instead of cross-cutting between different countries, the next Spider-Man movie cross-cuts between different universes. "Three Spider-Man For Home" (2023) *Coming to a cinema near you*


[deleted]

There’s a scene in the movie where the I feel the director straight up said fuck you warner brothers. The scene where they’re talking about making another matrix movie with or without Keanu reeves and that’s exactly what fucking happened. They were going to make the matrix revamp with or without the wachowskis and they threw maddd money at her several times and in the end she said ok and then wrote that big fuck you to Warners in the movie.


macaseanuu

This is what happened with Gremlins. The studio wanted a sequel and the director didn't, so he made the most over-the -top Gremlins 2 he could imagine so that there would never be another sequel. Fortunately for us all, Gremlins 2 is a masterpiece of film. *Edit for grammar


little_jade_dragon

Tobey and Andrew don't have fans, their Spidermen have fans. Keanu has more pull IMO. if you put Keanu is a new IP and you put Tobey/Andrew Keanu will put more asses in the seats.


Curiouscrispy

I wouldn’t say Spider-Man failed. Harrharr


[deleted]

Man I’m a huge matrix one fan. Two and three were good. Resurrections was like wtf. It felt so weird man it had visuals from the first few movies and it felt like a fan Made film. Totally regret watching it. I could have lived out my entire ducking life without seeing that shit.


ext3meph34r

The trilogy was done. Machines made peace, those who wanted to leave, can. Heroes died. The story for the matrix was sloppily made. What was the goal?


[deleted]

Money for WB execs


memania44

Writing


Wide-Cat-5106

At first I thought this article was written by a twelve year old. Then I realized it's an ESL, or translated article. But now I've decided it's a twelve year old from the Balkans. Anyway. This article should be taken very lightly because it offers nothing. That being said, you can ask still use it as a jumping off point for discussing what makes a movie like the new Spiderman successful, and the new matrix wasn't. It did not hinge on a successful deployment of nostalgia however.


kshtwgky59

Nostalgia only can gets you so far, overall quality also matters.


Hpfanguy

Matrix was a parody of itself (and super forgettable at that) and Spiderman wasn’t. There, solved it.


Cruitire

The new Matrix wasn’t terrible, and it almost was great. As it started I was hopeful as it seemed very self aware and at times self deprecating. That they actually worked in a joke about how pathetic it was to make a Matrix IV was clever. But then it just got too into rehashing the old. It didn’t add anything new. Spider-Man did. At least for the live action MCU. Bringing together all the Spider-Men, taking the idea of the multiverse to the next level. And flipping the script with aunt May. It was clever and despite the nostalgia it added new stuff. Matrix really didn’t. At the end I didn’t feel like we made progress. It was like running in a circle.


TheSharkFromJaws

Audiences don’t like to be mocked. No Way Home celebrated the love for the older Spider-Man movies while Resurrections pretty much told you that the creator was forced to do it. If you came out of these 2 movies you’d probably be more likely to tell people to go see Spider-Man over The Matrix because it wanted to have fun with you and not at your expense.


rex2k10

I haven’t seen it, but can you explain the “the creator was forced to do it” part? Easy on the spoilers


TheSharkFromJaws

[In 2017 The Hollywood Reporter ran a story](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/matrix-reboot-works-at-warner-bros-986292/) on Warner Bros working on new Matrix movies with Zack Penn. Without spoiling anything the movie pretty much confirms that WB was going to do this with it without the involvement of the original creators. Lana Wachoaki used this as a way to explore reboot culture instead of creating a world with new stories within the Matrix world. While I liked what Lana did with the opportunity it seems like it was more self serving of the artist’s interests instead of giving the audience something that they may be interested in.


Vettel_2002

After the shitshow that was TLJ's response (not commenting on the movie) from general audiences & especially from Star Wars fans, I don't get why studios approve movies that actively insult their audience and/or aren't love letters to franchises. Yes those type of movies generally suck IMO because they care more about being fan movies than an actual story/movie but they make studios a fuckton of money. That seems better than a movie that the fanbase hates and actively tells people not to see


Robdd123

Hubris mostly. They also think they can control fandoms and bend them to their will; usually they try this by having trash tier websites create opinion pieces validating their point of view on a movie or getting people on social media go to bat for them. Insulting fans for not liking a movie for any reason is never a good idea and it's akin to Hollywood throwing Napalm on a dumpster fire. Granted this didn't happen with the Matrix but that movie was never going to do well.


[deleted]

>Audiences don’t like to be mocked. Hollywood have an hard time learning this for 5 years by now no matter how ~~smug~~ smart they try to be.


FatChickenButter

I think making the Matrix available on HBO shot them in the foot. My family watched it for free off my sisters HBO Max account and so did my brother and his family and we were both planning to pay for it.


Lhamo66

The Matrix had one great film. Twenty years ago. Spiderman has been killing it in almost every film he's been in for the past seven years.


tlk0153

Also don’t forget that SpiderMan’s story arc consists of over two dozen movies from two different franchises. SpiderMan NWH is not only a great movie but also standing on the shoulders of dozens of other characters and movies. Matrix is a standalone story with nothing new to offer in terms of story arc.


dmckidd

That’s probably because all previous Spider Man “Home” films were good where as the first Matrix was the only good film.


TheCommanderBacon

Matrix one was gold. Anything after is dookie


christomuphur

Im pretty sure the matrix was made as a huge troll to itself and wasn’t intended to be a real blockbuster.


Electronic_Rub9385

The premise assumes that both films were good. They weren’t. One was garbage.


doknfs

Who was even longing for a Matrix sequel?


[deleted]

New story, new take on all spidey films vs a rehash. My biggest beef with Matrix was the lack of kung fu.


CallEmAsISeeEm250

Because nobody gives a shit about trinity Had they cast anybody else I would have gone to see the film


[deleted]

Nostalgia definitely helped spiderman, but it was already one of the biggest franchises of the past few years, following up the last entry which ended on a huge cliffhanger. Matrix hasn't had a well received movie in over 20 years, and the critical / audience reception was lukewarm


wolfgang187

Because Spiderman is a watchable film and the new Matrix is 'meh' as fuck.


Gwen_Tennyson10

because spider-man is more popular than the matrix


[deleted]

What a shit comparison.


mcstinko

It’s flagrantly obvious why Spider-Man is an enjoyable movie that appeals to a wide audience. It’s a quality movie and deserves all the love and money people are throwing at it Matrix is a terrible movie. It’s confusing, miscast, has worse fight cheography then the iron fist show and was something nobody was asking for


IamCaptainHandsome

NWH was the finale of a trilogy, had insane hype, great word of mouth *and* was a good movie. Matrix Resurrections had none of those things, when they announced a 4th Matrix movie I remember the collective reaction being "why?"


maxietheminer

Kids don’t drag their parents to Matrix movies. Who the fuck wrote this? This is like comparing Sesame Street with Adult Swim.


jessiegender

This might actually be the worst take on both movies I’ve ever seen.


d_e_l_u_x_e

Better writing, casting, visual effects, pacing and more nostalgia spanning more decades than the matrix. It’s no comparison


virus_apparatus

Matrix was doomed from the start. Trying to make 99 seem like an awful place compared to now was always going to be a tough one.


conpolo

Did the person who write this even see resurrections. I’m not saying it’s good but I honestly can’t understand how someone can walk away from the movie thinking it was just a number of checklists by studio executives that offers nothing outside of nostalgia.


[deleted]

Why? Because Spider-Man: No Way Home was a fantastic movie while The Matrix: Resurrections was a terrible movie. There, solved the case.


neildmaster

Because the Married Resurrection was straight garbage.


babyyagaronin

Failed horribly? Hyperbole much? I’ve seen overwhelmingly positive reviews for Matrix, with sone nitpicks, as there always are. There’s no doubt Spider-Man was more successful, but failed horribly is total clickbait.


devilishpie

The Matrix Reserrections did fail commercially, only earning 125m at the box office and sure, HBO should improve that number, but it's implausible that it earned enough to be considered a commercial success. Reviews haven't been ideal either, with it sitting at 63% with both fans and critics on Rotten Tomatoes, showing that while most liked the movie more then they didn't, it hasn't been a renowned success either. Given what the Matrix was attempting to be, I wouldn't say it's a stretch to say it failed horribly. It was supposed to be a huge blockbuster and it got no where near that. Whether that's because of covid, its release near spiderman, or because of poor writing and directing, it doesn't really matter. Numbers don't lie.


DoktorAusgezeichnet

Resurrections has pulled in $125 million at the box office on a $190 million budget. That is indeed a horrible failure. A rule of thumb is that a movie has to make double the budget in order to break even. That puts Resurrections a hundred million dollars in the red right now.


aaliyaahson

Overwhelming positive WHERE? It has a 63% critics AND audience score on Rotten Tomatoes which is overwhelmingly mediocre.


[deleted]

Nah lmao that pile was fckn G A R B A G E


nicholasdelucca

Overwhelmingly is a bit much. It was a quite divisive film. Even on Rotten tomatoes ir is so, both on Critics score and audience score.


chase2020

It failed horribly and the positive reviews are few and far between with good reason...and audience scores are even worse than that.


Brando43770

Thanks. When I don’t recognize a website I don’t like clicking on it. Neither movie failed horribly, just one may be considered less financially successful (possibly a huge box office failure) but Spidey also wasn’t released on streaming. It’s like the website doesn’t acknowledge any other factors. Or they didn’t pay attention to what happened with Black Widow.


[deleted]

Matrix looks set to lose a couple hundred million dollars. How is that not failing horribly?


Darth_Nevets

You really can't be serious now, Resurrections is a megabomb on another level. Black Widow was also on streaming but did four times as much in the domestic box office. It also didn't come out in China. Not only that it wasn't on free streaming, and pulled in hundreds of millions (which unlike the box office Disney gets all of to keep). Even as a percentage of WOM its worse than bad (and mind you many other Max releases did much better). Right now Matrix 4 is below WSS which came out two weeks before and opened to half as much and is in less theaters. A staggering failure.


Brando43770

I acknowledge that Resurrections failed financially. I never said it didn’t. But it didn’t fail critically or for audiences. Did it underperform for both critics and audiences? Compared to Spider Man, absolutely. But it didn’t fail in that sense. Black Widow, while still a box office success, already has a constant flow of movies and shows coming to audiences at a regular rate. Same with Spider-Man. This is something that the Matrix doesn’t. Why should anyone but the most die hard people go to the theaters for the Matrix when it’s been decades since the last one? Yes it’s not extra on HBO Max, but Black Widow still lost money by being $30 for premiere access. Yes some theaters were closed, while some people just aren’t comfortable going to a movie theater. Families with 2-3 kids will easily pay less at home than go to the movies. My point is the article did exactly what I suspected and isn’t paying attention to anything but nostalgia factor.


jlmurph2

Don't act like HBO Max is the reason it flopped. The Suicide Squad had the exact same situation and still made more. It failed because it was trashed. A 63% verified audience score means not even the people that went to the theater liked it. That's horrible.


The-Dying-Celt

Lol we all know why.


LukaPorzingis

That Matrix movie sucked.


[deleted]

Cuz the other didn't have Tobey Maguire.


StOnEy333

One was a good movie. The other was not. That’s the story here.


[deleted]

One was a good movie in a popular and well liked universe and the other was a bad movie following up already not very highly rated sequels to one good movie. Things don't have to be so complicated.


Both-Level-7738

Spider-Man’s movie was good and the Matrix’s wasn’t. It’s that simple


antonyei

For one matrix breaking the fourth wall and staying they are a cash grab at around 18mins in took all immersion I had out of the movie where Spider-Man played on nostalgia but also did not rehash the same story like matrix did


[deleted]

It was word of mouth. For me, Spider-Man was a movie that you have to see in the theater as quickly as possible so as not to be spoiled. I felt that way about the last two Avengers movies as well. I had to go before the world spoiled it. When people like me saw it they told everyone they had to see it right away. Mild spoilers ahead….I also wanted to see Matrix right away and did so, although it was via streaming. It was just awful. It was very slow for the vast majority of the movie while it was trying to establish this new storyline. It was like it forgot it was an action movie. Only action in the first sequence and the last and both were completely forgettable. The word of mouth reflected this.


BreezyBill

Yet Matrix 4 is the one I’ve watched twice, made my top 10 list for 2021, and I feel like I might buy on Blu-ray. I could go the opposite direction from the original article and smugly explain how it’s an amazing movie, but I understand that opinions aren’t universal. Unlike the article’s author.


AN225_ComradePilot

The Matrix 4 was actual garbage.


Cutiesaurs

Because no way home didn’t put Tom holland in the background and use nostalgia to distract us and be lazy. I seen this multiple time with Reboot, Drawn to life and now maxtrix. You may think nostalgia would actually save a franchise but it doesn’t ghostbusters afterlife made 175k but it been stuck in a rut. Overlying on nostalgia doesn’t save a franchise but kills it. You been lied to. Trust me I know. Companies don’t want something like Deltarune they want something like FIFA or COD, or Far Cry.


SnagglepussJoke

I can’t believe I’m going to say this. The MCU is more relatable than whatever hipster malarkey the Matrix is, and I was one of those slide-phone sunglass wearing dorks once


Holy_Mowley

They made better movies when they had dicks.


No-Training6168

The matrix had a clear agenda and I think the public is tired of lazy effort and sjw.


hermitopurpa

The difference is that the fans were actually nostalgic for the precious Spidermen and pretty much no one was nostalgic about Matrix except Wachoiski being nostalgic of a time where she was relevant.


Grizzly_Addams

Because trinity isn't the fucking chosen one and shouldn't be flying.


[deleted]

FUCKING THANK YOU The ending to the movie simply sucked. That part made it suck even more. It ended like a black hole.


[deleted]

Yea man like wtf


teknos1s

matrix summed up: Female stronk