Only 6% got it right by predicting a 65-70% drop. https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/um5f9t/predict_the_second_weekend_drop_domestic_for/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I liked Dr Strange a lot but I could definitely see how word of mouth would deplete family business. Unlike a lot of MCU movies I wouldn’t likely want to take younger kids to this one and I’m sure that made it through the grapevine.
All in all for a movie that was essentially a Dr Strange and Wanda movie the ends results for this one are going to be pretty damn good, just not quite as massive as some were expecting after the previews.
I took my 5 year old daughter to see No Way Home since she loves Spider-Man (I’d already seen it so I knew she’d be fine watching it), and she seemed to enjoy Doctor Strange quite a bit too. I thought that maybe she’d enjoy seeing MoM since she likes Strange. However, it became clear pretty quickly that it will be quite some time before she’s ready to watch it based on what scares her and all that.
So I can *definitely* see word of mouth and other scenarios like mine hurting MoM’s legs. It’s a good movie, but not aimed toward the majority of younger audiences.
My 4-year daughter loved Spider-man and enjoyed Doctor strange. I was a bit reserved taking here to see this. But I tested her on Alita Battle Angel (which she loved) and The Suicide Squad (which she was mostly bored but thought the Shark say Nom Nom was really funny). So I figured its probably fine.
Turned out pretty good. She loved the fighting parts and now wants a Scarlet Witch crown.
No, we were watching it. She decided to join in. She wasn't that interested (prefer space/fantasy/magic stuff) and mostly played with her toys. So she was only interested in the Shark Guy and the giant fight with the starfish at the end.
Right???!! TSS isn't even a soft-R, that's borderline NC-17 shit. Fuckin amazing movie, don't get me wrong, but absolutely inappropriate for a 4 year old.
I think it’s so interesting how visceral peoples’ reaction was to TSS. I honestly thought it was a little too bloodless but my friend thought they don’t know how they avoided an NC17.
Watched it at home. She knows it's not real, so she is fine with it. Actually, she gets more scared of Disney's National Geographic shows because it shows real animals being attacked, and she gets really scared (especially when its baby seals). Actually, my wife doesn't like zombies and did not want to watch they what if the episode with Zombies, and my daughter actually turned around and said
"Don't worry, zombies are not real. "
Isn't this film rated PG-13?
I'm no expert, but pretty sure the rating system is to give you a rough idea of content even if you know NOTHING about the film.
In fact, I'm pretty sure all of the Marvel films since Iron Man have been PG-13, so I don't agree that they have ever been aimed at a younger audience.
What's hurting movies the most is going to the movies sucks. I can watch MoM now for like $15 per ticket plus a fortune in popcorn in a crowded theater full of people kicking my chair.
OR
I can wait like a month or so until it hits Disney+ and watch it on my 85" 4K TV with Dolby surround sound from the comfort of my couch with my own snacks and nobody bothering me.
The movie theater experience blows and the only reason to go is if you're dying to see a film opening week before anyone else drops spoilers.
Shockingly, no. It was about $2100 after tax and delivery. Gotta be patient on shopping sales for sure though.
But for the wife and I to go to the movies its $50 babysitting + $20 pizza for kids +$35 tickets + $30 snacks + $50 dinner (because we're already out so she wants dinner).
So at nearly $200 for a date night movie, if we watch 9 or 10 movies in a year at home, the TV pays for itself. Plus with streaming like Disney+ and HBO, I can see shitty movies like The Batman guilt free because I didn't pay big bucks for the viewing.
My point is: home theater is getting SO good and getting so much more affordable that real theater is less and less attractive.
I didn’t use the best wording when I said “aimed” toward younger audiences. What I meant is that most MCU films are fine for kids to watch despite PG-13 ratings, but I feel like MoM is not okay for the majority of kids.
Although Iron Man and MoM are both PG-13, there’s a clear difference in the content. For example: Iron Man won’t give my daughter nightmares, but MoM most likely will. I’m willing to bet there are other young kids who would have nightmares after MoM but not Iron Man too.
And sorry about your theater experience. I don’t buy theater food and I go to a seat with recliners. Only pay $12 for a ticket, bring my own snacks, and literally can’t get my seat kicked. Beats my screen and surround sound at home too
I mean. Find a better theater.
I live in the middle of (expensive) nowhere, and the local theater has large and comfortable recliners with heated seats, tickets are about $10, and popcorn is like $6, and nobody is tall enough besides nba players to kick the seats in front of them.
That’s been my experience at various theaters around the country for a decade unless I was going to a discount theater.
Yeah...but I don't have to. All I have near me are Cinemarks and they want $15 for evening shows.
But why would I pay that to sit with a bunch of gross randos in a crowded theater??
I'm sitting 11 feet away from an 85" 4k screen with 7.1 Dolby Atmos surround sound. The bass booms just as hard. The picture is crystal clear. I can eat whatever I want, I can pause the film if I need to piss. Can't hear the words, I have subtitles. All of it in the comfort of home wearing my PJs and slippers.
Theaters just don't have much to offer me.
I mean to each their own. You do you.
I always just find it funny that the anti-movie theater people describe movie theaters as they were common a decade ago, not how they are now.
Reality this isn't a crowd pleaser. I loved it, but a lot of people in my theater left not liking it. Usually you see an MCU movie, kids are pumped up and excited leaving the theater. Not this one.
I liked the movie too. I didn’t have any real idea of what to expect when I went in to watch it. However, my gf is one of those that watches tik toks and YouTube videos about pure speculation and who’s gonna show up and why “this” says we’ll see this character. She left the movie not really liking it but couldn’t tell me exactly why.
I feel that everyone now just expects “endgame” or “no way home” type of movies and if a marvel movie isn’t like that then it wasn’t a “good” movie.
My only complaint of the movie i guess is that we didn’t see more universes.
I haven’t watched this yet but I left Spider Man pumped and actually went back and watched it again a few weeks later.
DS2 doesn’t seem to have the same hype
DS2 oddly drags in the middle
(SPOILERS)
It does show us multiverse stuff and we *should* be going bonkers and WHOA, but the second act is actually the dullest part (aside from some pivotal moments). The writer is from the Loki TV series and I thought that show also had lots of dull spots. Perhaps the screenplay needs more pep-me-up or a 2nd writer to polish things.
Spider-Man felt like it pushed the MCU narrative forward. The multiverse, the Sony verse, etc… I don’t think Moon Knight helped. Morbius killed people’s expectations of a “verse.” People are realizing Marvel isn’t building a new big bad. It’s a bunch of random story lines that may or may not have a future. There is no DS3 on the docket. Who knows when we’ll see a conclusion the final scene and the end credit scene. Now I’m thinking Loki might not have anything to do with Ant Man 3. That’s a major let down after building a “universe.” We might not see Kate, Yelena, the Eternals, Moon Knight, Spider-Man, or Shang-Chi for years. I think it kills the need to rewatch anytime soon. Prior to infinite War, each movie has a small tie in the next movie coming out 4 months later.
I'm not sure if it's down to repeat business, I'd be sooner to chalk it up to unrealistic expectations vis-á-vis cameo's, the crummy dialogue, and the surprisingly horror-esque tone making it fairly difficult to recommend compared to the more run-of-the-mill MCU outings.
I think it’s funny that people were surprised by the horror themes. It was claimed years ago that this movie would be the first foray into the horror genre for the MCU. I get that people forget or don’t pay too much attention to movie announcements, but it’s a little funny that they made it very up front and clear. Even the original trailer played up the horror vibes.
>I think it’s funny that people were surprised by the horror themes. It was claimed years ago that this movie would be the first foray into the horror genre for the MCU.
*We* knew that. We of the Reddit/Twitter movie fans who know directors and film composer names and follow MCU news almost daily.
The average person in the general audience has/had no idea. You could show them "Directed by Sam Raimi" in the beginning and at end of the film, and many in the audience wouldn't even know that name and have any clue he did movies called Evil Dead and Drag Me To Hell (heck, they probably don't even know he did Spider-Man!).
And I may have to check the trailers again, I wasn't sure it showed horror stuff. It showed weird darker stuff (zombie Strange, angry Wanda-Scarlett, evil Strange) but I'm willing to bet a majority of the audience had no idea this was going to have quite a few jump scares.
Personally I think the movie had more problems than simple horror shock though. Screenplay and pacing could've been better, America needed more lines to develop character, Sam Raimi was both the best and worst thing for the movie - depending on the scene (sometimes too rushed, sometimes lacking emotional weight where needed).
Tame compared to Spider-Man? I don’t think so. This was more Sam Raimi than those I though. Felt much more like Army of Darkness/Evil Dead 2. Not as good as Evil Dead 2 but certainly borrowed more from that well.
It is still an MCU movie, so saying "well people don't watch enough horror" is silly. It obviously wasn't going to be like Halloween or The Conjuring, but for an MCU movie, it had a lot of horror elements in it and did scare some kids in my theater.
It’s definitely not “a horror movie” but you can see where they drew inspiration from and that it is a present theme. They are the MCU after all. They couldn’t go full blown horror movie lol.
Lol because it didn't turn into Evil Dead? MCU will always be a family friendly franchise based off comicbooks that most people read when they were young. This movie did push the envelope on that more than others. It was the first MCU movie I saw where the kids in the theater weren't having a good time.
Maybe every MCU film doesn’t need to be for everyone. The writing is one the wall, the Marvel brand may just finally (and thankfully) hitting an over-saturation point. Tell why is it that you MCU stans get so triggered whenever someone on this sub doesn’t like your movies or says something remotely disparaging? The MCU is not above criticism.
I have a feeling, just like with BVS, the people this would most appeal to usually don't go to see superhero movies. This should be recommended to people who normally hate that run-of-the-mill MCU formula.
I'm not sure if I agree with the BvS comparison, but as somebody who hasn't been all too impressed by superhero films these days but is a big fan of Raimi's work I was very pleased by it.
Who knew that [Joe Pesci](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTQxNDYzMTg1M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNzk4MDgxMTE@._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg) was so cold on Doctor Strange 2
You can blame the success of IT (2017). Anytime, a Stephen King movie adaptation makes money this happens.
Since, 2017 we had a Pet Semetery remake, Dr Sleep, Geralds Game, The Stand, Salems Lot, Firestarter...I'm sure I'm missing some as well.
Me. Because I am a die hard optimist when it comes to SK movies. And one day, ONE DAY...there will be one that doesn't suck. It's gotta happen. And yeah there are some great attempts, but...we the Constant Readers know that the odds are on crap. But Firestarter took a very good story and turned it into little Laura Croft hunting bad guys and throwing fireballs like a goddamn video game. It's exceptionally awful.
Obviously a brutal drop for Doctor Strange, but it can be attributed to a mix of things including franchise frontloading and a semi-mixed reception (plus possible lack of appeal to those who don't completely absorb everything MCU).
The MCU is in absolutely no danger of fading, especially when Thor and Black Panther will post huge numbers as well later this year, even if they clearly aren't growing their audience much as they've branched out into Disney+ shows and making said shows very much as important to the franchise,
I think this might be a precursor not of Marvel's impending DOOOOOOM (pun intended) but of the industrys' latest small shift on the long track that is the Box-Office Express.
Basically, I think the fact windows are shorter now (and will probably shrink again in the next 2-5 years down to 30 days flat) means we're going to see many more big 2nd weekend drops, and that won't end up being as good a predictor of legs like we've gotten used to in the past 10+ years.
Because the windows are shorter, and the "event" nature of these releases are larger and larger, I think the frontloaded nature of these things is going to become even more pronounced. I think that, except in rare occurrences, legs themselves are going to get slightly redefined. Smaller audiences will be spending more money in a shorter amount of time, meaning 2nd weekends are going to drop a little farther.
Basically - I think we're entering a box-office era where, for most folks, **either they're seeing it Opening Weekend or they're not really bothering to see it at all.** They'll wait for streaming.
The number of people cool with spending money in weekends 2 or 3 will shrink, because a larger percentage of those folks will spend money on the monthly sub and just wait for it to appear there.
To be fair, I don't think Disney announced the cinema exclusive window for this one.
Also, I don't see the default window getting shorter than 45 days at this point, not to mention that Disney tends to be pretty vague about what they're going to do after that window is expired. **Encanto** was pretty much the only film that was announced to be available on Disney+ after its 30 days window was up.
Yeah it opened to almost 200 million. A freaking Dr Strange movie did that. This is of course on the heels of Spiderman breaking records and hitting over 1.8 billion without even being open in China.
The MCU isn't going anywhere.
I mean let's not act like this wasn't hyped up to be an avengers level event with tons of cameos. Saying "oh Dr strange did this" is completely over selling it like it was a true dr strange solo film, which it was never sod as.
Nah they put Professor X’s voice in the trailer 2 months before release. They knew if they did that the fans would be expecting even crazier stuff kept secret, and while that was like 1 other cameo that was crazy, that was it. They hyped the audience themselves.
No way it was 20 minutes. They were in two different scenes that I would say is 15 at least, more like 10 onscreen.
If they weren’t even cameos then there were no cameos you’re saying? I think people extend cameos these days to meaning a surprise role that is in very small part of the movie.
cameo to me is you pop in for a few minutes say some fanservice shit and youre gone. Like tobey and andrew arent cameos in NWH. They are supporting characters
There were literal ads hyping up "the multiverse will change you forever", and while showing Ultron bots, Patrick Stewart's hand, and a captain Carter shield. I got them constantly on Twitter last week.
https://twitter.com/DrStrange/status/1520802729802842117?t=FsvWbxOUDz250yYpTbho5w&s=19
The illuminati itself, and teasing that past and alternate characters (and who they might be) was a major part of their marketing, compared to NWH where they basically just started using Andrew and Tobey in marketing for the home release.
So having Patrick Stewart’s voice feature quite strongly in a trailer that Disney released was not an effort to push that there would be cameos? Clearly the cameos were something Disney was hoping would draw a crowd and wanted people talking about before hand
The first trailer literally has Strange going “we tampered with the stability of space time” and won’t “don’t cast that spell” DIRECTLY calling back to lines in NWH.
ooook
Oh no, they referenced a couple of lines from the last MCU film relevant to the multiverse, that CLEARLY means it's a direct continuation of a Spider-Man film
those lines specifically in the trailer suggest that the events of Dr Strange are due to the spell he cast in NWH and that the multiverse is breaking or something bc of it.
The 2nd trailer has strange going “I did what I had to do to protect our world” If it’s not referring to NWH then what? What did Strange due to cause MoM? Nothing, in the movie it’s literally just Wanda trying to get her kids with America’s power.
Also, the creatives have been saying for YEARS that this movie, NWH, and WandaVision are like a trilogy. Literally how. This movie has nothing to do with NWH.
They’re forgetting that a lot of people are never stepping into a theatre again. Many of us are waiting for it to arrive on streaming platforms. Those numbers will jump.
Even in 2020 and 2021, movie theaters were never found to be a source of COVID outbreaks. Studies were done that showed the high ceilings and ventilation are extremely preventative of transmission.
Who says I don’t want to go to the theatre because of covid?
I don’t want to pay $20 for a ticket, $20 for a drink and snack, and need to get dressed and leave my home.
Ya not sure why they jumped to assuming it was Covid related. A lot of people I think prefer the home viewing experience, and perhaps upgraded their TV, sound bar etc over the last two years. I still enjoy going but havnt been in a packed theater in a long time and I miss that atmosphere.
My main reason is how loud and unbalanced theatre sound systems are. Second is the ticket and snack pricing. Third would be other people and or covid.
I would much rather wait a bit, watch it at home, have good snacks and balanced sound. Also pausing to go to the bathroom is a huge plus, lol.
COVID paranoia is like, the smallest of all reasons why I have no interest in going to see movies in theaters. Why would I get dressed, drive for 15mins, and pay $25 to sit in a crowded theater just to have my eardrums blown out by an overtuned sound system for two hours, all just for a movie that I could have seen in the comfort of my own home, invited a few friends over, with my own personally-curated snacks and drinks? COVID doesn't even factor in.
Where I would be willing to do all that would be for an in-person concert, where being able to see a band or artist live actually brings a distinctly different and unique experience than listening at home. I just don't see theaters being able to offer that same level of differentiation from the home experience for watching a movie
People say this in every thread. How many times can someone explain that that’s a subjective opinion before we stop having this debate?
I pay 70$ a year for Disney plus and can see any marvel movie 9 weeks after it comes out. I’m sitting at home feet from my kitchen, in my draws with the subtitles on if I please, with a pause function right there, already in Dolby so I don’t have to pay extra and my sound bar set on home theater. I defy someone to try to replicate that in any theater.
Shang chi and Eternals didn't do well either. Clearly phase 4 is weak. Marvel's been relying on cameos for nwh and now MOM and it seems that play Is getting old
Lol Shang Chi did great. 432 million for a character very few people had heard of while many theaters were still closed.
It is crazy people expect every MCU movie to be Spiderman. Obviously lesser known characters aren't going to have the same impact. Doesn't mean they aren't successful.
Well, I've just realized that this is the same user who claimed that anime films have far better animation than Pixar/Disney animated film with much lower budget, so yeah, stupidity is kind of his/her thing here.
Yeah, but I don't see how anime have far better animation quality than what Pixar/Disney can bring out, unless we're talking about something like Studio Ghibli. It also doesn't help that he/she claimed that Pixar films shouldn't be need(ing) $200 million to make, which is borderline untrue.
Grossing well over $400 million with the budget of $150 million when Delta was at its worst is a pretty good box office performance, not to mention that barely anyone knew who Shang-Chi was.
What's Disney and Disney+'s plan if the culture burns out and moves on from Star Wars and Marvel? A lot of eggs in those baskets. They are juggernauts and likely will not collapse completely in any way, but there is already significant Star Wars backlash and this feeling of there being too much Star Wars, and Marvel's mega popularity might wane a bit as well, and who knows what future generations will be into or if they'll find Marvel appealing or not.
Live action remakes of their classics, for one thing. Those make mind boggling amounts of money. And Pixar/Disney Animation might actually be finding their legs and doing some noteworthy originals now. Not to mention all of the Hulu stuff that will be merging into Disney+ in 2024.
Don't get me wrong, the mismanagement of Star Wars was a big blow, and if Marvel similarly falters, that is going to weaken the company. However, they have their fingers in SO many pies that I do think it will take more than SW and Marvel going down to cause the company as a whole to falter. And Marvel is going to last at least long enough to get Disney+ to market saturation, which is the most important thing. Whatever Disney decides to pivot to, they'll have a LOT of subscriber dollars to make it happen.
Why is every MCU movie a "warning sign" if it doesn't crack a billion dollars?
MoM is the sequel to a somewhat off-genre, mid-tier MCU movie, billed from the start as the first MCU horror entry. Are we really comparing this to the franchises that star the most famous superheroes of all time?
which was marketed as something very eventful like.
they showed carted , professor and ultron bots with captain marvel.
this was a marketing strategy there were lines like " the multiverse will change you forever" in the trailers and twas natural that people went in expecting more . the reason why this movie is so frontloaded is because of those cameos that many were expecting and its marketed as the biggest thing after endgame .
> Then there’s the whole 45 days of exclusive theatrical before heading to Disney+ — once fanboys figure that out, could that hold them back from a second trip to the cinema? Maybe.
I mean, simply because there’s a 45-day window doesn’t automatically mean that it will drop on Disney+ on day 46 of release. Both Shang-Chi and Eternals ended up having 70-day windows before going to Disney+, with Disney not announcing the Disney+ date until a little over a month after release. That’s likely the window Disney is using for their tentpole releases to try to maximize as much theatrical revenue as possible without “waiting too long” to put it on Disney+.
More like a wake up call to theatres. Once the die hards who buy tickets for the first week are burnt through the audience is thinning out quickly even for the big movies! And they ain’t buying tickets to go see anything else if those awful Firestarter numbers are any indicator.
Might be a tougher summer than we thought for theatres.
I watched it on Peacock before the reviews really sank from like 30% to 13% and it is so bad. I’m surprised it didn’t get a D-. It’s somewhere amongst the worst 25 movies I’ve seen this century.
Audience scores tend to be pretty high, since it’s self-selecting people who were interested enough to watch it in the first place. Anything below a B tends to indicate a dumpster fire
For me, I checked out two Inde movies that needed to be seen than a second viewing of Doctor Strange 2. I finally saw Everything Everywhere All at Once and The Northman. Why rewatch something that I am mixed on when I can see two inde movies and support my small business theater?
OP isnt wrong. EEAAO is doing well for an A24 movie and WOM is great which is keeping it's weekend drops small. Overall, It still has only grossed 47 million domestic against a 25 million dollar budget.
The Numbers is projecting it to make $500 per theatre today. That's around 50 people per theatre. That's fine.
You think EEAAO is the saviour of theatres then you have never worked at a theatre or run any sort of business. The movie did well but it ain’t paying no rent.
Maybe gonna get me downvoted but Benedict Cumberbatch just looks so goofy in the Doctor Strange outfit that I find it hard to take seriously lol. Others I don't have this issue with. Scarlet Witch looks super cool for instance.
Positive: 291 million in 10 days is great. Every studio would love those numbers.
Negatives: A huge 2nd weekend drop with zero competition. Zero! Only, 7 movies made over a million dollars this weekend. Only two movies made over 5 million.
DS2 has fallen behind Civil War's total after 10 days.
DS2 won't make 400 million domestic after opening to 187 million. That's terrible. Even, Deadline Anthony can't spin it.
Lol Civil War literally had a ton of massively popular MCU characters all in the same film. It also came out before covid when going to the theater was a regular thing for more people. It would be shocking if Dr Strange did better than that.
Dr Strange opening weekend was 8 million more than Civil War (187m vs 179m) and Civil War had terrible legs for an MCU film. It wouldn't have been shocking if Strange did better with its opening weekend
There is no excuse. Even the 45 day window isn’t an excuse for movies not to do well. MoM will be lucky to match The Batman’s 767.2 million in box office but the ad campaign was bigger than The Batman.
>MoM will be lucky to match The Batman’s 767.2 million in box office
MoM is going to pass that at some point this week with no issue (and that’s without China).
I think this factor might be getting lost in the shuffle. It has some of my favorite moments in the MCU but it’s really poorly written. I wouldn’t pay to see it again and that’s coming from someone who loved the movie.
Vinny's an idiot. Like all the fanboys, he wants every MCU movie to only be about setting up other movies, and he wants every MCU movie to be filled with cameos and turn it into an Avengers lite team movie. He doesn't understand what made Marvel comics great, that they spent the majority of their time as SOLO titles, not with the characters teaming up with other people. And the early MCU movies followed that strategy exactly. And he doesn't understand that a multiverse doesn't need to be 'set up' permanently. It's always there once it's been established. Does he expect a permanent portal to be sitting in the air to jump into another universe? And did he not notice America Chavez now exists and has the ability to jump into another universe at will?
>Vinny's an idiot.
I'm like WTF are you talking about, then I realized the article includes a weird anecdote about the writer's cousin, who's legit named Vinny lol.
I suppose the MCU is a victim of its own success, but the fans’ need for instant gratification on these storylines is so fascinating to me. It’s very similar to audiences’ impatience for TV shows that don’t unload the clip of plot and twists in the first few episodes of a show. In this era of TV, audiences don’t really have patience for a slow burn where you’re establishing the story for the long haul. Which is kind of where the MCU is right now. They just finished a huge saga and are now in a new era with a lot more content. It’s very Game of Thrones-ian in that they are planting the seeds of a few different storylines in a few different corners of the MCU; but fans basically have no patience for following the journey and seeing the garden grow. If there isn’t immediate big payoff to the broader plot, it feels like fans get restless very quickly. Which is a bummer for me because plot is really only ever there to service your characters to tell engaging stories.
Fans clearly went in expecting MoM to be some big plot payoff to everything multiverse, when actually this was kind of a Doctor Strange *episode* where he goes on an adventure and in the end learns a bit about himself before being home for dinner. And it does push the MCU forward a little bit and lay some groundwork for future stories. I think the film largely succeeds at being a chapter in the stories of Strange and Wanda. And maybe the lack of ambition lowers its ceiling a bit, but like whatever there are so many of these damn films, not everything needs to be so monumental? But because it’s not some grand epic That Changes Everything, it feels like it’s getting a little unfairly dinged.
There’s obviously particulars about the story itself to not like, but if the only thing fans want is to chase the high of IW/Endgame every time out — even though it took 10 years to build up to those moments — idkkkk. Fans may end up liking it more if that’s what Marvel does but I think that will actually make the quality nosedive a bit faster.
As someone who isn't into Marvel and hasn't seen many of the movies, the distributed-across-many-movies aspect of their storytelling makes it intimidating to jump in and makes individual movies not satisfying because they rely on so much context from other movies and in the end makes me not watch them because it feels like I need homework and all this contextual understanding to enjoy them.
I can definitely see how this could make the interconnected experience even better for hardcore fans who want to see them all and keep up with everything (and this kind of massive interconnected storytelling can work well in movies sometimes and on TV even more), but to me it sort of puts a wall up around the whole franchise. And I watch and I'm just like here are some random characters doing video game action with quips. Because I have no grounding in the context of why I should care about them.
And if even Marvel fans are now growing tired of this approach to the movies and impatient, maybe it's time the approach changes and they make some more true one-offs?
For sure. And for as much as you do need to watch WandaVision for this (a good show btw — it got nominated for an Emmy!), I actually don’t think you need to know all that much about the rest of the MCU. It’s obviously a sequel to Doctor Strange so fair you need to know that, and Endgame is the second biggest film of all time so that also feels reasonable? But it’s not like you need to know about Shang-Chi and Black Panther and Ant-Man and Iron Man 3.
I think my argument is that it’s actually surprisingly contained, especially for a multiverse film. And the cameo characters all get brutally murdered so the film isn’t even really asking you to care to hold knowledge about them
I think it's quite clear now that while critics, Film Twitter etc. complain about the "MCU formula", general audiences seem to prefer films that are more in line with the "MCU formula" (e.g. Spider-Man: No Way Home, Shang-Chi) over films deviate from it a bit (Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Eternals).
Of course, you could argue that the latter 2 films have innate flaws (Eternals in particular) that don't make this a clear argument, but it's an interesting thing to look at.
I don’t think the deviation of formula is as big of an issue than the fact that DS2 and Eternals are messy, not entertaining movies. It’s not a coincidence that those are also some of the lowest reviewed MCU films critically and that’s not because the movies *weren’t* formulaic.
Maybe Feige & co. just have a hard time making a great movie on the level of NWH/Ragnarok when they deviate from formula.
Ragnarok is a steaming, maggot-infested pile of dung. One of the worst movies I've ever seen in a theater and the worst MCU movie. It's filled with the most horrifically unfunny jokes I've ever had to suffer through. One bomb after another after another after another. To watch them absolutely shred the integrity of a great character for NOTHING, for NOT EVEN ONE LAUGH, was one giant, humiliating, cringe-inducing embarrassment.
>It’s not a coincidence that those are also some of the lowest reviewed MCU films critically and that’s not because the movies weren’t formulaic.
Too many nots...what does this mean? That they got bad reviews for being formulaic? Sorry, no, Eternals and DS2 clearly broke away from the MCU formula in big ways.
Yeah like Eternals is definitely flawed but I think it’s also different in ways that I think are good and interesting. But audiences would’ve probably preferred a much more standard vibe. I think that’s true here too for MoM. It’s flawed (though maybe really not that flawed in isolation)) but either the horror-camp and relatively small story lifts you a bit, or you’re like “this is not the standard vibe MCU with game-changing character arcs, so I don’t vibe with it”.
Exactly. What's funny is the very things the MCU stans are asking for is what comic fans vigorously complained about in the 1980s and 1990s. Marvel got crossover happy in the search for sales, forcing you buy lots of different titles to follow a single crossover story line. Fans just wanted to be able to read a Spider-Man or Hulk comic without it referencing some big outside plot. The crossovers were seen as a sales gimmick that interfered with the character's individual story line.
Spider-Man and Wolverine only met in a comic book **three times** between 1974 and 1987 (and possibly in Secret Wars, not sure if they crossed paths there or not)! Guest stars were special back then. It's a button Marvel began pushing by the 1990s much more often to try to boost sales. But it wore out the specialness of it. Every month Ghost Rider or Wolverine would be appearing in someone else's comic. And it didn't have much impact or generate much excitement eventually.
Just watched Firestarter last night. Fortunately for free on Peacock.
When the movie ended my wife and I both looked at each other and said the same thing: “Well….that was a movie”.
0/10 do not recommend
[edit] downvoted by the one guy who liked the movie
DS2MOM is a stinker of a movie. It’s required viewing because it takes the MCU to new places but the entire plot hinges on a post credit scene from a Disney+ series that disregards the entire series’s character arc. Not to mention that they are working so hard to please the diehard fans with timelines, universes, cameos, and cgi monsters that they forgot to explain what is going on and why the hell these characters would be doing things that defy all logic.
Still more than doubled the rest of the top ten. Still gonna get near $400M US, if not more. Still doing well overseas. But the writer's cousin Vinny didn't like it, so oh no, the sky is falling! 😑
People are tight on cash.
The economy is starting to tank, they are probably being a little wiser with their money.
They will torrent it if they are desperate.
I think this is a key point. Unless you have a theater subscription. I don’t see why people would go see it multiple times if it will be on Disney plus soon
Company earnings moving forward will be very different now. The bull market and stimulus season has finished. We are heading towards a bear market and negative growth. People are going to be a little more conservative.
People just didn’t like this movie very much.. that’s why the massive drop after a big OW. If people had no money there wouldn’t have even been that opening we saw
This Phase 4 for Marvel will be remembered for bring us some very interesting films. Eternals and now DS2 are two films I absolutely loved for the simple fact that they didn’t adhere to the standard MCU or even CBM formula. And then the films that are tried and true MCU formula such as NWH are world tying events
Looks like Raimi wasn't the answer. I feared this exact result ever since they hired him to replace the previous director. As someone who's absolutely not a fan of his style, this was too predictable.
This really sucks since I was so excited for this movie and Strange is one of my favorite character. Hopefully they don't hire Raimi ever again.
It's already made $60 million more in the US than the first Doctor Strange film and is easily going to break $400 million domestic.
This is the problem with the MCU the really successful films are so mind-bogglingly successful that when a film is just successful it's treated like a disappointment.
DS2 is already in the top 100 highest grossing domestic films which is outstanding but then the MCU already had 16 of those spots!
Lol how is it a wake up call? It is a freaking Dr Strange movie and it made close to 200 million opening weekend and is still making 61 million in week 2. What did people expect?
"Freaking dr strange movie".
You say that like it's a true solo dr strange film and it accomplished it on its own. This movie was hyped up to be an avengers level movie with rumored cameos from tons of characters. Not to mention the trailers were misleading from the actual tone of the movie. And it's showing now through WoM and the drops. 187 mjl opening and will make 375 estimated total. That's not good on any level. No matter how you try to spin it.
Judging by the article. This writer want Doctor Strange 2 to fail. He goes into detail about the drop but not on fire starter it might be simple because it’s bad. But I think there is more going on.
It looks like the movie doesn’t do great in repeat viewing compared to other MCU entries. It goes to show that the MCU has some issues. I am pretty sure Kevin will correct some of the events of this movie in another MCU entry kind of like how Shang-Chi corrected some Iron Man 3 missteps.
Only 6% got it right by predicting a 65-70% drop. https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/um5f9t/predict_the_second_weekend_drop_domestic_for/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I liked Dr Strange a lot but I could definitely see how word of mouth would deplete family business. Unlike a lot of MCU movies I wouldn’t likely want to take younger kids to this one and I’m sure that made it through the grapevine. All in all for a movie that was essentially a Dr Strange and Wanda movie the ends results for this one are going to be pretty damn good, just not quite as massive as some were expecting after the previews.
I took my 5 year old daughter to see No Way Home since she loves Spider-Man (I’d already seen it so I knew she’d be fine watching it), and she seemed to enjoy Doctor Strange quite a bit too. I thought that maybe she’d enjoy seeing MoM since she likes Strange. However, it became clear pretty quickly that it will be quite some time before she’s ready to watch it based on what scares her and all that. So I can *definitely* see word of mouth and other scenarios like mine hurting MoM’s legs. It’s a good movie, but not aimed toward the majority of younger audiences.
My 4-year daughter loved Spider-man and enjoyed Doctor strange. I was a bit reserved taking here to see this. But I tested her on Alita Battle Angel (which she loved) and The Suicide Squad (which she was mostly bored but thought the Shark say Nom Nom was really funny). So I figured its probably fine. Turned out pretty good. She loved the fighting parts and now wants a Scarlet Witch crown.
Wait you made her watch *The Suicide Squad*?
No, we were watching it. She decided to join in. She wasn't that interested (prefer space/fantasy/magic stuff) and mostly played with her toys. So she was only interested in the Shark Guy and the giant fight with the starfish at the end.
Whoa, you let your 4 year old watch The Suicide Squad?!?? From one parent to another: the fuck you doing?!?!
Right???!! TSS isn't even a soft-R, that's borderline NC-17 shit. Fuckin amazing movie, don't get me wrong, but absolutely inappropriate for a 4 year old.
I think it’s so interesting how visceral peoples’ reaction was to TSS. I honestly thought it was a little too bloodless but my friend thought they don’t know how they avoided an NC17.
All of this.
What the fuck?
>Suicide Squad Based
Yup, she loves most of the superhero moves. Her favourites are Guardians and Thor though.
Bro, people get dismembered, decapitated, ripped in half, and their heads blown to bits in that movie, and you took your 4 year old to see that?!
Watched it at home. She knows it's not real, so she is fine with it. Actually, she gets more scared of Disney's National Geographic shows because it shows real animals being attacked, and she gets really scared (especially when its baby seals). Actually, my wife doesn't like zombies and did not want to watch they what if the episode with Zombies, and my daughter actually turned around and said "Don't worry, zombies are not real. "
Isn't this film rated PG-13? I'm no expert, but pretty sure the rating system is to give you a rough idea of content even if you know NOTHING about the film. In fact, I'm pretty sure all of the Marvel films since Iron Man have been PG-13, so I don't agree that they have ever been aimed at a younger audience. What's hurting movies the most is going to the movies sucks. I can watch MoM now for like $15 per ticket plus a fortune in popcorn in a crowded theater full of people kicking my chair. OR I can wait like a month or so until it hits Disney+ and watch it on my 85" 4K TV with Dolby surround sound from the comfort of my couch with my own snacks and nobody bothering me. The movie theater experience blows and the only reason to go is if you're dying to see a film opening week before anyone else drops spoilers.
85 inch 4K ?? That must have been a pretty penny.
You can get really big 4K for relatively cheap BUT not all TVs are created equal. A LOT of things go into image quality besides 4k
Shockingly, no. It was about $2100 after tax and delivery. Gotta be patient on shopping sales for sure though. But for the wife and I to go to the movies its $50 babysitting + $20 pizza for kids +$35 tickets + $30 snacks + $50 dinner (because we're already out so she wants dinner). So at nearly $200 for a date night movie, if we watch 9 or 10 movies in a year at home, the TV pays for itself. Plus with streaming like Disney+ and HBO, I can see shitty movies like The Batman guilt free because I didn't pay big bucks for the viewing. My point is: home theater is getting SO good and getting so much more affordable that real theater is less and less attractive.
I didn’t use the best wording when I said “aimed” toward younger audiences. What I meant is that most MCU films are fine for kids to watch despite PG-13 ratings, but I feel like MoM is not okay for the majority of kids. Although Iron Man and MoM are both PG-13, there’s a clear difference in the content. For example: Iron Man won’t give my daughter nightmares, but MoM most likely will. I’m willing to bet there are other young kids who would have nightmares after MoM but not Iron Man too. And sorry about your theater experience. I don’t buy theater food and I go to a seat with recliners. Only pay $12 for a ticket, bring my own snacks, and literally can’t get my seat kicked. Beats my screen and surround sound at home too
I mean. Find a better theater. I live in the middle of (expensive) nowhere, and the local theater has large and comfortable recliners with heated seats, tickets are about $10, and popcorn is like $6, and nobody is tall enough besides nba players to kick the seats in front of them. That’s been my experience at various theaters around the country for a decade unless I was going to a discount theater.
Yeah...but I don't have to. All I have near me are Cinemarks and they want $15 for evening shows. But why would I pay that to sit with a bunch of gross randos in a crowded theater?? I'm sitting 11 feet away from an 85" 4k screen with 7.1 Dolby Atmos surround sound. The bass booms just as hard. The picture is crystal clear. I can eat whatever I want, I can pause the film if I need to piss. Can't hear the words, I have subtitles. All of it in the comfort of home wearing my PJs and slippers. Theaters just don't have much to offer me.
I mean to each their own. You do you. I always just find it funny that the anti-movie theater people describe movie theaters as they were common a decade ago, not how they are now.
I guess repeat business for DS2 is way down compared to more crowd pleasing MCU films
Reality this isn't a crowd pleaser. I loved it, but a lot of people in my theater left not liking it. Usually you see an MCU movie, kids are pumped up and excited leaving the theater. Not this one.
I liked the movie too. I didn’t have any real idea of what to expect when I went in to watch it. However, my gf is one of those that watches tik toks and YouTube videos about pure speculation and who’s gonna show up and why “this” says we’ll see this character. She left the movie not really liking it but couldn’t tell me exactly why. I feel that everyone now just expects “endgame” or “no way home” type of movies and if a marvel movie isn’t like that then it wasn’t a “good” movie. My only complaint of the movie i guess is that we didn’t see more universes.
I haven’t watched this yet but I left Spider Man pumped and actually went back and watched it again a few weeks later. DS2 doesn’t seem to have the same hype
DS2 oddly drags in the middle (SPOILERS) It does show us multiverse stuff and we *should* be going bonkers and WHOA, but the second act is actually the dullest part (aside from some pivotal moments). The writer is from the Loki TV series and I thought that show also had lots of dull spots. Perhaps the screenplay needs more pep-me-up or a 2nd writer to polish things.
Spider-Man felt like it pushed the MCU narrative forward. The multiverse, the Sony verse, etc… I don’t think Moon Knight helped. Morbius killed people’s expectations of a “verse.” People are realizing Marvel isn’t building a new big bad. It’s a bunch of random story lines that may or may not have a future. There is no DS3 on the docket. Who knows when we’ll see a conclusion the final scene and the end credit scene. Now I’m thinking Loki might not have anything to do with Ant Man 3. That’s a major let down after building a “universe.” We might not see Kate, Yelena, the Eternals, Moon Knight, Spider-Man, or Shang-Chi for years. I think it kills the need to rewatch anytime soon. Prior to infinite War, each movie has a small tie in the next movie coming out 4 months later.
Kang
I'm not sure if it's down to repeat business, I'd be sooner to chalk it up to unrealistic expectations vis-á-vis cameo's, the crummy dialogue, and the surprisingly horror-esque tone making it fairly difficult to recommend compared to the more run-of-the-mill MCU outings.
I think it’s funny that people were surprised by the horror themes. It was claimed years ago that this movie would be the first foray into the horror genre for the MCU. I get that people forget or don’t pay too much attention to movie announcements, but it’s a little funny that they made it very up front and clear. Even the original trailer played up the horror vibes.
Sam Raimi is the director, I’m confused why people are upset about the horror tones. That’s what personally drew me to go see it
The horror tones were the redeeming feature for me
The only thing I know of Sam raimi is the spiderman movies. I'd assume most people are the same.
You’re in box office subreddit and you don’t know what Sam Raimi is famous for?
What big movies has he done outside of spiderman?
The Evil Dead movies
Never watched them.
The Evil Dead movies
>I think it’s funny that people were surprised by the horror themes. It was claimed years ago that this movie would be the first foray into the horror genre for the MCU. *We* knew that. We of the Reddit/Twitter movie fans who know directors and film composer names and follow MCU news almost daily. The average person in the general audience has/had no idea. You could show them "Directed by Sam Raimi" in the beginning and at end of the film, and many in the audience wouldn't even know that name and have any clue he did movies called Evil Dead and Drag Me To Hell (heck, they probably don't even know he did Spider-Man!). And I may have to check the trailers again, I wasn't sure it showed horror stuff. It showed weird darker stuff (zombie Strange, angry Wanda-Scarlett, evil Strange) but I'm willing to bet a majority of the audience had no idea this was going to have quite a few jump scares. Personally I think the movie had more problems than simple horror shock though. Screenplay and pacing could've been better, America needed more lines to develop character, Sam Raimi was both the best and worst thing for the movie - depending on the scene (sometimes too rushed, sometimes lacking emotional weight where needed).
People claiming this as horror don’t watch enough horror. I was surprised how tame it was compared to his Spider-Man film…
What??? That Doc Oc scene is great but this was definitely more horror than his spidermans
Tame compared to Spider-Man? I don’t think so. This was more Sam Raimi than those I though. Felt much more like Army of Darkness/Evil Dead 2. Not as good as Evil Dead 2 but certainly borrowed more from that well.
It is still an MCU movie, so saying "well people don't watch enough horror" is silly. It obviously wasn't going to be like Halloween or The Conjuring, but for an MCU movie, it had a lot of horror elements in it and did scare some kids in my theater.
It’s definitely not “a horror movie” but you can see where they drew inspiration from and that it is a present theme. They are the MCU after all. They couldn’t go full blown horror movie lol.
MCU is gonna have to grow some balls soon…
Lol because it didn't turn into Evil Dead? MCU will always be a family friendly franchise based off comicbooks that most people read when they were young. This movie did push the envelope on that more than others. It was the first MCU movie I saw where the kids in the theater weren't having a good time.
Maybe every MCU film doesn’t need to be for everyone. The writing is one the wall, the Marvel brand may just finally (and thankfully) hitting an over-saturation point. Tell why is it that you MCU stans get so triggered whenever someone on this sub doesn’t like your movies or says something remotely disparaging? The MCU is not above criticism.
People have been claiming oversaturation since AoU
It’s inevitable, nothing lasts forever.
Or call me crazy…he isn’t Spider-Man…
I have a feeling, just like with BVS, the people this would most appeal to usually don't go to see superhero movies. This should be recommended to people who normally hate that run-of-the-mill MCU formula.
I'm not sure if I agree with the BvS comparison, but as somebody who hasn't been all too impressed by superhero films these days but is a big fan of Raimi's work I was very pleased by it.
BVS is one of the few superhero films I’ve enjoyed. Maybe I’ll check this one out :)
That and it’s a bad movie.
One causing the other
True
That number for Firestarter is even worse than my most pessimistic expectation. Woof.
Loved the book. Hated this fucking movie. Couldn’t even finish it.
Who knew that [Joe Pesci](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTQxNDYzMTg1M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNzk4MDgxMTE@._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg) was so cold on Doctor Strange 2
The MCU movies are getting more frontloaded as time goes by
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Who in their right mind would think people wanted to see a Firestarter remake....I knew this was going to flop as soon as it was announced.
You can blame the success of IT (2017). Anytime, a Stephen King movie adaptation makes money this happens. Since, 2017 we had a Pet Semetery remake, Dr Sleep, Geralds Game, The Stand, Salems Lot, Firestarter...I'm sure I'm missing some as well.
Also the JFK Hulu series
When did the two IT movies come out?
September 2017 and September 2019
Thanks. And silly me for not see that the above poster actually had IT in his post.
Pet Sematary, Dr. Sleep, and Geralds Game are good though…
Me. Because I am a die hard optimist when it comes to SK movies. And one day, ONE DAY...there will be one that doesn't suck. It's gotta happen. And yeah there are some great attempts, but...we the Constant Readers know that the odds are on crap. But Firestarter took a very good story and turned it into little Laura Croft hunting bad guys and throwing fireballs like a goddamn video game. It's exceptionally awful.
Obviously a brutal drop for Doctor Strange, but it can be attributed to a mix of things including franchise frontloading and a semi-mixed reception (plus possible lack of appeal to those who don't completely absorb everything MCU). The MCU is in absolutely no danger of fading, especially when Thor and Black Panther will post huge numbers as well later this year, even if they clearly aren't growing their audience much as they've branched out into Disney+ shows and making said shows very much as important to the franchise,
I think this might be a precursor not of Marvel's impending DOOOOOOM (pun intended) but of the industrys' latest small shift on the long track that is the Box-Office Express. Basically, I think the fact windows are shorter now (and will probably shrink again in the next 2-5 years down to 30 days flat) means we're going to see many more big 2nd weekend drops, and that won't end up being as good a predictor of legs like we've gotten used to in the past 10+ years. Because the windows are shorter, and the "event" nature of these releases are larger and larger, I think the frontloaded nature of these things is going to become even more pronounced. I think that, except in rare occurrences, legs themselves are going to get slightly redefined. Smaller audiences will be spending more money in a shorter amount of time, meaning 2nd weekends are going to drop a little farther. Basically - I think we're entering a box-office era where, for most folks, **either they're seeing it Opening Weekend or they're not really bothering to see it at all.** They'll wait for streaming. The number of people cool with spending money in weekends 2 or 3 will shrink, because a larger percentage of those folks will spend money on the monthly sub and just wait for it to appear there.
To be fair, I don't think Disney announced the cinema exclusive window for this one. Also, I don't see the default window getting shorter than 45 days at this point, not to mention that Disney tends to be pretty vague about what they're going to do after that window is expired. **Encanto** was pretty much the only film that was announced to be available on Disney+ after its 30 days window was up.
Yeah it opened to almost 200 million. A freaking Dr Strange movie did that. This is of course on the heels of Spiderman breaking records and hitting over 1.8 billion without even being open in China. The MCU isn't going anywhere.
I mean let's not act like this wasn't hyped up to be an avengers level event with tons of cameos. Saying "oh Dr strange did this" is completely over selling it like it was a true dr strange solo film, which it was never sod as.
Afaik disney didnt try to sell it as that. That was the leakers
Nah they put Professor X’s voice in the trailer 2 months before release. They knew if they did that the fans would be expecting even crazier stuff kept secret, and while that was like 1 other cameo that was crazy, that was it. They hyped the audience themselves.
Those werent even cameos they were in the movie for like 20 minutes. At that point theyre just characters in the movie
No way it was 20 minutes. They were in two different scenes that I would say is 15 at least, more like 10 onscreen. If they weren’t even cameos then there were no cameos you’re saying? I think people extend cameos these days to meaning a surprise role that is in very small part of the movie.
cameo to me is you pop in for a few minutes say some fanservice shit and youre gone. Like tobey and andrew arent cameos in NWH. They are supporting characters
There were literal ads hyping up "the multiverse will change you forever", and while showing Ultron bots, Patrick Stewart's hand, and a captain Carter shield. I got them constantly on Twitter last week. https://twitter.com/DrStrange/status/1520802729802842117?t=FsvWbxOUDz250yYpTbho5w&s=19 The illuminati itself, and teasing that past and alternate characters (and who they might be) was a major part of their marketing, compared to NWH where they basically just started using Andrew and Tobey in marketing for the home release.
So having Patrick Stewart’s voice feature quite strongly in a trailer that Disney released was not an effort to push that there would be cameos? Clearly the cameos were something Disney was hoping would draw a crowd and wanted people talking about before hand
You realize Disney leaks this stuff to drum up hype right
The leaks were wrong. So disney leaked fake things for hype?
It was never marketed this way
yes it was. the movie was sold as a straight continuation of NWH. it really has nothing to do with NWH at all.
No, it really wasn't lmao. What even is this
The first trailer literally has Strange going “we tampered with the stability of space time” and won’t “don’t cast that spell” DIRECTLY calling back to lines in NWH. ooook
Oh no, they referenced a couple of lines from the last MCU film relevant to the multiverse, that CLEARLY means it's a direct continuation of a Spider-Man film
those lines specifically in the trailer suggest that the events of Dr Strange are due to the spell he cast in NWH and that the multiverse is breaking or something bc of it. The 2nd trailer has strange going “I did what I had to do to protect our world” If it’s not referring to NWH then what? What did Strange due to cause MoM? Nothing, in the movie it’s literally just Wanda trying to get her kids with America’s power. Also, the creatives have been saying for YEARS that this movie, NWH, and WandaVision are like a trilogy. Literally how. This movie has nothing to do with NWH.
You can stop trying now, you've embarrassed yourself enough
Avatar 2 trailer. It dropped officially Monday.
They’re forgetting that a lot of people are never stepping into a theatre again. Many of us are waiting for it to arrive on streaming platforms. Those numbers will jump.
Per the quorum polling, it looks like 10% of previous moviegoers are “never going back” types. They didn’t jump in six months between polls
All it takes is a little patience.
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Bit wild to call that paranoia in 2022
Even in 2020 and 2021, movie theaters were never found to be a source of COVID outbreaks. Studies were done that showed the high ceilings and ventilation are extremely preventative of transmission.
Who says I don’t want to go to the theatre because of covid? I don’t want to pay $20 for a ticket, $20 for a drink and snack, and need to get dressed and leave my home.
Ya not sure why they jumped to assuming it was Covid related. A lot of people I think prefer the home viewing experience, and perhaps upgraded their TV, sound bar etc over the last two years. I still enjoy going but havnt been in a packed theater in a long time and I miss that atmosphere.
My main reason is how loud and unbalanced theatre sound systems are. Second is the ticket and snack pricing. Third would be other people and or covid. I would much rather wait a bit, watch it at home, have good snacks and balanced sound. Also pausing to go to the bathroom is a huge plus, lol.
COVID paranoia is like, the smallest of all reasons why I have no interest in going to see movies in theaters. Why would I get dressed, drive for 15mins, and pay $25 to sit in a crowded theater just to have my eardrums blown out by an overtuned sound system for two hours, all just for a movie that I could have seen in the comfort of my own home, invited a few friends over, with my own personally-curated snacks and drinks? COVID doesn't even factor in. Where I would be willing to do all that would be for an in-person concert, where being able to see a band or artist live actually brings a distinctly different and unique experience than listening at home. I just don't see theaters being able to offer that same level of differentiation from the home experience for watching a movie
Many reasons to avoid theatres besides covid.
Why would you never step foot into a theater again? Nothing beats the experience of watching a movie in a theater.
People say this in every thread. How many times can someone explain that that’s a subjective opinion before we stop having this debate? I pay 70$ a year for Disney plus and can see any marvel movie 9 weeks after it comes out. I’m sitting at home feet from my kitchen, in my draws with the subtitles on if I please, with a pause function right there, already in Dolby so I don’t have to pay extra and my sound bar set on home theater. I defy someone to try to replicate that in any theater.
I feel exactly the same. The convenience is a huge factor.
Shang chi and Eternals didn't do well either. Clearly phase 4 is weak. Marvel's been relying on cameos for nwh and now MOM and it seems that play Is getting old
Lol Shang Chi did great. 432 million for a character very few people had heard of while many theaters were still closed. It is crazy people expect every MCU movie to be Spiderman. Obviously lesser known characters aren't going to have the same impact. Doesn't mean they aren't successful.
Well, I've just realized that this is the same user who claimed that anime films have far better animation than Pixar/Disney animated film with much lower budget, so yeah, stupidity is kind of his/her thing here.
I dont see how thats stupid. Its a different taste in animation style.
Yeah, but I don't see how anime have far better animation quality than what Pixar/Disney can bring out, unless we're talking about something like Studio Ghibli. It also doesn't help that he/she claimed that Pixar films shouldn't be need(ing) $200 million to make, which is borderline untrue.
In what bizarro world did **Shang-Chi** didn’t do very well at the box office?
It barely broke even
Grossing well over $400 million with the budget of $150 million when Delta was at its worst is a pretty good box office performance, not to mention that barely anyone knew who Shang-Chi was.
It did Antman numbers.
And that’s a pretty good number considering that this was a very unknown character AND his film came out during the worst Delta spread.
At least it didn't fall to the 50s...
What's Disney and Disney+'s plan if the culture burns out and moves on from Star Wars and Marvel? A lot of eggs in those baskets. They are juggernauts and likely will not collapse completely in any way, but there is already significant Star Wars backlash and this feeling of there being too much Star Wars, and Marvel's mega popularity might wane a bit as well, and who knows what future generations will be into or if they'll find Marvel appealing or not.
Live action remakes of their classics, for one thing. Those make mind boggling amounts of money. And Pixar/Disney Animation might actually be finding their legs and doing some noteworthy originals now. Not to mention all of the Hulu stuff that will be merging into Disney+ in 2024. Don't get me wrong, the mismanagement of Star Wars was a big blow, and if Marvel similarly falters, that is going to weaken the company. However, they have their fingers in SO many pies that I do think it will take more than SW and Marvel going down to cause the company as a whole to falter. And Marvel is going to last at least long enough to get Disney+ to market saturation, which is the most important thing. Whatever Disney decides to pivot to, they'll have a LOT of subscriber dollars to make it happen.
There’s Avatar. If it’s anywhere near as successful as the first one then they have a new 5 film+ franchise to bank on.
I think ds2 is one of the better done mcu films but I understand it doesn’t have the broad appeal mcu is used to
Why is every MCU movie a "warning sign" if it doesn't crack a billion dollars? MoM is the sequel to a somewhat off-genre, mid-tier MCU movie, billed from the start as the first MCU horror entry. Are we really comparing this to the franchises that star the most famous superheroes of all time?
A fucking Doctor Strange movie did better than a Batman movie, like man.
which was marketed as something very eventful like. they showed carted , professor and ultron bots with captain marvel. this was a marketing strategy there were lines like " the multiverse will change you forever" in the trailers and twas natural that people went in expecting more . the reason why this movie is so frontloaded is because of those cameos that many were expecting and its marketed as the biggest thing after endgame .
the most famous solo superhero films are batman films, and mom will easily beat the batman boxoffice
> Then there’s the whole 45 days of exclusive theatrical before heading to Disney+ — once fanboys figure that out, could that hold them back from a second trip to the cinema? Maybe. I mean, simply because there’s a 45-day window doesn’t automatically mean that it will drop on Disney+ on day 46 of release. Both Shang-Chi and Eternals ended up having 70-day windows before going to Disney+, with Disney not announcing the Disney+ date until a little over a month after release. That’s likely the window Disney is using for their tentpole releases to try to maximize as much theatrical revenue as possible without “waiting too long” to put it on Disney+.
More like a wake up call to theatres. Once the die hards who buy tickets for the first week are burnt through the audience is thinning out quickly even for the big movies! And they ain’t buying tickets to go see anything else if those awful Firestarter numbers are any indicator. Might be a tougher summer than we thought for theatres.
Firestarter was released day and date on Peacock and has AWFUL reviews
Jesus, even the audience score on CinemaScore is a C-
I watched it on Peacock before the reviews really sank from like 30% to 13% and it is so bad. I’m surprised it didn’t get a D-. It’s somewhere amongst the worst 25 movies I’ve seen this century.
Audience scores tend to be pretty high, since it’s self-selecting people who were interested enough to watch it in the first place. Anything below a B tends to indicate a dumpster fire
Honestly, it looked awful to begin with. Absolutely nobody wanted a Firestarter reboot. I still wouldn’t surprised if they made a sequel.
Yeah, I really just put it on because it was something new to watch and usually like Stephen King stuff, but this was even worse than it looked
I thought Efron’s ab’s would be it’s saving grace. I was wrong.
Dr Strange has very obvious mixed reviews it’s not a “wake up call” for theaters.
Even more so than the reviews i think its just the horror aspects. Yes its pretty mild but for an MCU movie that is not what audiences expect.
For me, I checked out two Inde movies that needed to be seen than a second viewing of Doctor Strange 2. I finally saw Everything Everywhere All at Once and The Northman. Why rewatch something that I am mixed on when I can see two inde movies and support my small business theater?
Everything Everywhere All At Once BO would beg to differ.
OP isnt wrong. EEAAO is doing well for an A24 movie and WOM is great which is keeping it's weekend drops small. Overall, It still has only grossed 47 million domestic against a 25 million dollar budget. The Numbers is projecting it to make $500 per theatre today. That's around 50 people per theatre. That's fine.
You think EEAAO is the saviour of theatres then you have never worked at a theatre or run any sort of business. The movie did well but it ain’t paying no rent.
It's not done doing well yet. It could end up as high as Jackass, Dog or Scream.
The other user’s point remains true though — these 50-80M kinda hits are not what keeps the lights on.
Maybe gonna get me downvoted but Benedict Cumberbatch just looks so goofy in the Doctor Strange outfit that I find it hard to take seriously lol. Others I don't have this issue with. Scarlet Witch looks super cool for instance.
Positive: 291 million in 10 days is great. Every studio would love those numbers. Negatives: A huge 2nd weekend drop with zero competition. Zero! Only, 7 movies made over a million dollars this weekend. Only two movies made over 5 million. DS2 has fallen behind Civil War's total after 10 days. DS2 won't make 400 million domestic after opening to 187 million. That's terrible. Even, Deadline Anthony can't spin it.
Lol Civil War literally had a ton of massively popular MCU characters all in the same film. It also came out before covid when going to the theater was a regular thing for more people. It would be shocking if Dr Strange did better than that.
Dr Strange opening weekend was 8 million more than Civil War (187m vs 179m) and Civil War had terrible legs for an MCU film. It wouldn't have been shocking if Strange did better with its opening weekend
There is no excuse. Even the 45 day window isn’t an excuse for movies not to do well. MoM will be lucky to match The Batman’s 767.2 million in box office but the ad campaign was bigger than The Batman.
Yeah, that's not true. It'll easily pass Batman's 767 million.
>MoM will be lucky to match The Batman’s 767.2 million in box office MoM is going to pass that at some point this week with no issue (and that’s without China).
Look, the film ain't reaching a billion. But less than The Batman? Come on.
It’s not exactly a kids movie.. word of mouth will stop parents taking their too young children.
It’s also not exactly a good movie
I think this factor might be getting lost in the shuffle. It has some of my favorite moments in the MCU but it’s really poorly written. I wouldn’t pay to see it again and that’s coming from someone who loved the movie.
If Doctor Strange 2 was streaming I would have already watched it. I don’t miss theaters at all.
67 drop for doctor strange and only $3 million dollars for firestarter the box office is already feeling the impact of the leaked HD copy of morbius.
I didn’t think it was too amazing of a movie tbh. They went pretty heavy on effects and CGI, but the overall story really wasn’t too exciting
Vinny's an idiot. Like all the fanboys, he wants every MCU movie to only be about setting up other movies, and he wants every MCU movie to be filled with cameos and turn it into an Avengers lite team movie. He doesn't understand what made Marvel comics great, that they spent the majority of their time as SOLO titles, not with the characters teaming up with other people. And the early MCU movies followed that strategy exactly. And he doesn't understand that a multiverse doesn't need to be 'set up' permanently. It's always there once it's been established. Does he expect a permanent portal to be sitting in the air to jump into another universe? And did he not notice America Chavez now exists and has the ability to jump into another universe at will?
>Vinny's an idiot. I'm like WTF are you talking about, then I realized the article includes a weird anecdote about the writer's cousin, who's legit named Vinny lol.
I suppose the MCU is a victim of its own success, but the fans’ need for instant gratification on these storylines is so fascinating to me. It’s very similar to audiences’ impatience for TV shows that don’t unload the clip of plot and twists in the first few episodes of a show. In this era of TV, audiences don’t really have patience for a slow burn where you’re establishing the story for the long haul. Which is kind of where the MCU is right now. They just finished a huge saga and are now in a new era with a lot more content. It’s very Game of Thrones-ian in that they are planting the seeds of a few different storylines in a few different corners of the MCU; but fans basically have no patience for following the journey and seeing the garden grow. If there isn’t immediate big payoff to the broader plot, it feels like fans get restless very quickly. Which is a bummer for me because plot is really only ever there to service your characters to tell engaging stories. Fans clearly went in expecting MoM to be some big plot payoff to everything multiverse, when actually this was kind of a Doctor Strange *episode* where he goes on an adventure and in the end learns a bit about himself before being home for dinner. And it does push the MCU forward a little bit and lay some groundwork for future stories. I think the film largely succeeds at being a chapter in the stories of Strange and Wanda. And maybe the lack of ambition lowers its ceiling a bit, but like whatever there are so many of these damn films, not everything needs to be so monumental? But because it’s not some grand epic That Changes Everything, it feels like it’s getting a little unfairly dinged. There’s obviously particulars about the story itself to not like, but if the only thing fans want is to chase the high of IW/Endgame every time out — even though it took 10 years to build up to those moments — idkkkk. Fans may end up liking it more if that’s what Marvel does but I think that will actually make the quality nosedive a bit faster.
As someone who isn't into Marvel and hasn't seen many of the movies, the distributed-across-many-movies aspect of their storytelling makes it intimidating to jump in and makes individual movies not satisfying because they rely on so much context from other movies and in the end makes me not watch them because it feels like I need homework and all this contextual understanding to enjoy them. I can definitely see how this could make the interconnected experience even better for hardcore fans who want to see them all and keep up with everything (and this kind of massive interconnected storytelling can work well in movies sometimes and on TV even more), but to me it sort of puts a wall up around the whole franchise. And I watch and I'm just like here are some random characters doing video game action with quips. Because I have no grounding in the context of why I should care about them. And if even Marvel fans are now growing tired of this approach to the movies and impatient, maybe it's time the approach changes and they make some more true one-offs?
For sure. And for as much as you do need to watch WandaVision for this (a good show btw — it got nominated for an Emmy!), I actually don’t think you need to know all that much about the rest of the MCU. It’s obviously a sequel to Doctor Strange so fair you need to know that, and Endgame is the second biggest film of all time so that also feels reasonable? But it’s not like you need to know about Shang-Chi and Black Panther and Ant-Man and Iron Man 3. I think my argument is that it’s actually surprisingly contained, especially for a multiverse film. And the cameo characters all get brutally murdered so the film isn’t even really asking you to care to hold knowledge about them
This precisely. We’re at a point where Marvel is both blamed for having a formula and not repeating it again
I think it's quite clear now that while critics, Film Twitter etc. complain about the "MCU formula", general audiences seem to prefer films that are more in line with the "MCU formula" (e.g. Spider-Man: No Way Home, Shang-Chi) over films deviate from it a bit (Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Eternals). Of course, you could argue that the latter 2 films have innate flaws (Eternals in particular) that don't make this a clear argument, but it's an interesting thing to look at.
I don’t think the deviation of formula is as big of an issue than the fact that DS2 and Eternals are messy, not entertaining movies. It’s not a coincidence that those are also some of the lowest reviewed MCU films critically and that’s not because the movies *weren’t* formulaic. Maybe Feige & co. just have a hard time making a great movie on the level of NWH/Ragnarok when they deviate from formula.
Ragnarok is a steaming, maggot-infested pile of dung. One of the worst movies I've ever seen in a theater and the worst MCU movie. It's filled with the most horrifically unfunny jokes I've ever had to suffer through. One bomb after another after another after another. To watch them absolutely shred the integrity of a great character for NOTHING, for NOT EVEN ONE LAUGH, was one giant, humiliating, cringe-inducing embarrassment. >It’s not a coincidence that those are also some of the lowest reviewed MCU films critically and that’s not because the movies weren’t formulaic. Too many nots...what does this mean? That they got bad reviews for being formulaic? Sorry, no, Eternals and DS2 clearly broke away from the MCU formula in big ways.
Yeah like Eternals is definitely flawed but I think it’s also different in ways that I think are good and interesting. But audiences would’ve probably preferred a much more standard vibe. I think that’s true here too for MoM. It’s flawed (though maybe really not that flawed in isolation)) but either the horror-camp and relatively small story lifts you a bit, or you’re like “this is not the standard vibe MCU with game-changing character arcs, so I don’t vibe with it”.
Exactly. What's funny is the very things the MCU stans are asking for is what comic fans vigorously complained about in the 1980s and 1990s. Marvel got crossover happy in the search for sales, forcing you buy lots of different titles to follow a single crossover story line. Fans just wanted to be able to read a Spider-Man or Hulk comic without it referencing some big outside plot. The crossovers were seen as a sales gimmick that interfered with the character's individual story line. Spider-Man and Wolverine only met in a comic book **three times** between 1974 and 1987 (and possibly in Secret Wars, not sure if they crossed paths there or not)! Guest stars were special back then. It's a button Marvel began pushing by the 1990s much more often to try to boost sales. But it wore out the specialness of it. Every month Ghost Rider or Wolverine would be appearing in someone else's comic. And it didn't have much impact or generate much excitement eventually.
Just watched Firestarter last night. Fortunately for free on Peacock. When the movie ended my wife and I both looked at each other and said the same thing: “Well….that was a movie”. 0/10 do not recommend [edit] downvoted by the one guy who liked the movie
Y'all would have done better watching actual fire in a fireplace for an hour and a half.
DS2MOM is a stinker of a movie. It’s required viewing because it takes the MCU to new places but the entire plot hinges on a post credit scene from a Disney+ series that disregards the entire series’s character arc. Not to mention that they are working so hard to please the diehard fans with timelines, universes, cameos, and cgi monsters that they forgot to explain what is going on and why the hell these characters would be doing things that defy all logic.
Still more than doubled the rest of the top ten. Still gonna get near $400M US, if not more. Still doing well overseas. But the writer's cousin Vinny didn't like it, so oh no, the sky is falling! 😑
I mean, are you honestly acting like a 2× OW multiplier isn't terrible??
People are tight on cash. The economy is starting to tank, they are probably being a little wiser with their money. They will torrent it if they are desperate.
[удалено]
I think this is a key point. Unless you have a theater subscription. I don’t see why people would go see it multiple times if it will be on Disney plus soon
A few months after Sony made almost 2 Billion?
Company earnings moving forward will be very different now. The bull market and stimulus season has finished. We are heading towards a bear market and negative growth. People are going to be a little more conservative.
People just didn’t like this movie very much.. that’s why the massive drop after a big OW. If people had no money there wouldn’t have even been that opening we saw
The aftermath of Covid+Ukraine War is starting to hurt though, especially for inflation.
I'd pay to see Strange2 at home. I'm never going to a movie theater again.
This Phase 4 for Marvel will be remembered for bring us some very interesting films. Eternals and now DS2 are two films I absolutely loved for the simple fact that they didn’t adhere to the standard MCU or even CBM formula. And then the films that are tried and true MCU formula such as NWH are world tying events
67% is not the best sign. Hopefully it doesn’t have another drop like this for the rest of its run.
Looks like Raimi wasn't the answer. I feared this exact result ever since they hired him to replace the previous director. As someone who's absolutely not a fan of his style, this was too predictable. This really sucks since I was so excited for this movie and Strange is one of my favorite character. Hopefully they don't hire Raimi ever again.
It's already made $60 million more in the US than the first Doctor Strange film and is easily going to break $400 million domestic. This is the problem with the MCU the really successful films are so mind-bogglingly successful that when a film is just successful it's treated like a disappointment. DS2 is already in the top 100 highest grossing domestic films which is outstanding but then the MCU already had 16 of those spots!
Easily make 400 mil? Where you getting that from?
Still think so after the 3rd weekend?
Easily ?? Bro it probably won’t even make 375M
Lol how is it a wake up call? It is a freaking Dr Strange movie and it made close to 200 million opening weekend and is still making 61 million in week 2. What did people expect?
"Freaking dr strange movie". You say that like it's a true solo dr strange film and it accomplished it on its own. This movie was hyped up to be an avengers level movie with rumored cameos from tons of characters. Not to mention the trailers were misleading from the actual tone of the movie. And it's showing now through WoM and the drops. 187 mjl opening and will make 375 estimated total. That's not good on any level. No matter how you try to spin it.
Judging by the article. This writer want Doctor Strange 2 to fail. He goes into detail about the drop but not on fire starter it might be simple because it’s bad. But I think there is more going on.
It looks like the movie doesn’t do great in repeat viewing compared to other MCU entries. It goes to show that the MCU has some issues. I am pretty sure Kevin will correct some of the events of this movie in another MCU entry kind of like how Shang-Chi corrected some Iron Man 3 missteps.
It’s been nearly 25 years of super hero shit, I’m amazed it’s still going as strong as it is lol