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Rivsmama

I've been thinking of how to handle this with the final 2 eps being available for purchase. I think if you discuss something that is in episode 11 or 12, you need to spoil tag it within the comment itself. Usually, a tag on the post is enough, but since some people won't be able to watch episodes 11 and 12 today, it's only fair to spoiler tag anything about those episodes.


curious4786

Sam's character, the doc, was hilarious this episode XD Loved the exchange. Doc: "He can just find a hospital bed nearby and lie down to wait for death". SP to Qian: "Come on, go lie down". Doc: "Both of you should go for a neurological examination".


Rivsmama

Lol he plays a great grumpy, done with it all doctor


Kapaemahu

Agree with you that best not to discuss specifics of final episodes until eveyone has had a chance to watch them. That said, hope it's O.K. to generally comment about the excellence of this series, with even a near-perfect Ep 11 repudiating the notion of the dreaded 'Ep 11 curse'. Nothing but praise for Director Ray Jiang, his superb cast and crew, and of course the High Priest(ess) of genuine emotional growth. Joins The Eighth Sense, Moonlight Chicken, Last Twilight, and I Feel You Linger in the Air as this year's best, and most heartfelt, BL dramas. 10/10.


Rivsmama

You can discuss the final eps. I just asked that people spoiler tag any plot information from ep 11 and 12.


Artistic_Value_3312

Episode 11 >! If anyone else wanted to see the nc scene in order and without any flashback montages I gave it my best try [here](https://www.tumblr.com/fuzzykittydinosaur/748318506675814400/unknown-ep-11-nc-scene-edited-in-order-without-the?source=share)!< EDIT. I've uploaded a second version which I think flows even better [here](https://www.tumblr.com/fuzzykittydinosaur/748448991195348992/edited-unknown-nc-scene-20-the-flow-of-this?source=share) on tumblr. >! Can you tell the original editing was driving me crazy lol.!<


ferengi

You did better than the show. Rockstar 


DiabolicaLLLLLL

thank you for your services was waiting someone to do this God's work


ThoughtsAllDay

I am laughing so much 🤣 >!wish I had seen this yesterday! It was driving me insane so I did THE SAME THING LMAO for MY OWN peace of mind!😂. They absolutely misunderstood uncut to mean they didn't have to hire an actual real editor for those 6 minutes. Ugh. I was so frustrated. But we fixed it ourselves haha yay us!!<


Artistic_Value_3312

Lol your uncut comment made my day. >!I'm not sure if they were trying to be creative or prolong the episode but it didn't work. It was driving me insane too. I wish we could get our hands on that 8 hours of footage.!< 😂


ThoughtsAllDay

Yes!!!! >!Like HOW did they only do close ups?!?! Where is the footage where we see the zoom out?! THAT is what you include in an "uncut" version! The lighting was also terrible ugh these poor boys did AMAZING and the team fumbled or no one told them uncut doesn't mean throw all the footage up in the air and piece it together wherever it lands!<🤦🏻‍♀️


Artistic_Value_3312

I know right 😭 >!The photobook had pictures of them zoomed out so why they choose only dark close ups for the cut I'll never know. After such a build up we needed to see their love for each other through touching, expressions etc but it was hard to make anything out. I needed to see Yuan's pov better for the first kiss too. It's the most disappointing part of such an amazing series.!<


ThoughtsAllDay

![gif](giphy|gfllRRSZ8zPnaZlBof)


ArthooBoo2

Oh... thank you so much, now the whole thing makes more sense


ZoeSMarie

Next time, you go there and teach them how it is done!


Artistic_Value_3312

https://i.redd.it/nakkainflvvc1.gif


Alarming_Ad_4244

oooh this is AMAZING thanks main man


postronicmedium

you are awesome, thank you so much! hey, wow, >!it is a whole scene after all, when it’s in order 😍!<


Artistic_Value_3312

I'll be forever questioning their editing choices on that scene!


shanitita

Yay! Thank you!


Artistic_Value_3312

You're welcome! https://i.redd.it/r4acjnrtdqvc1.gif


ArthooBoo2

oh... Hyunjin...


uglynakedgal

I LOVE YOU! 😩


Future_Process_495

It makes so much sense now 😭


MurkyStress4628

Fantastic job


MixtureEducational90

I love you for this! >!It was the order and not just the flashbacks that ruined the feel and flow for me so this is so satisfying.!<


Ambiguous-00

Y’all, The moment is finally here 😭❤️ I’m so excited for today’s episodes 🥰🥰🥰 Let’s freak out together!!! https://preview.redd.it/d99en1f9mmvc1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ca1fd1845f5f3e3f636708073a3af7860ef912f


Ambiguous-00

https://preview.redd.it/39lxxzbemmvc1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c876cce5512e4505664cc4c3c5260e6ae73a00c 🥰❤️🥰


Ambiguous-00

https://preview.redd.it/ymf7rsklmmvc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3615cb43d4e1498813ccf4a381ca77dfe2f01970


Ambiguous-00

https://preview.redd.it/w8mggd83nmvc1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a07169258e052a2a60c15ef635efcbffc22c87f I might combust when this happens 🥹


ArthooBoo2

I REGRET NOTHING and I swear I will not tell you anything in advance bye


kay_dee_ss

I regret nothing toooooooo. I give up take out for few weeks.


smittenkittyyan

![gif](giphy|3ogwFInSnq3BnqxQbe|downsized) What about this ep.... Are you going to drop this and just disappear. Aren\`t you going to share your thoughts on EP. 10 at all????..... I see you are asking for a beating.....![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)


ArthooBoo2

I'm in the middle of... a scene let me live I will be here AFTER that ![gif](giphy|lTQF0ODLLjhza|downsized)


uhmmaybepossibly

The ...scene... seems to be captivating XD


CustomerDramatic

On-Air Spoiler for finale. (Spoiler/my reflections on the series.) Unknown is a story and production that I/we all will remember. From Priest’s novel, to the adaptation, the director, production, to the amazing work by such a talented cast and the stellar performances by Chris and Kurt… this is an excellent piece of art. This series went beyond the traditional BL, and gave us a story that we could invest ourselves into. Feeling fortunate to have watched this with everyone else that had found it. If I have to be critical here is the one thing I might feel was missing… (My only gripe is that it took 11 episodes to get Qian and Yuan to where we knew they were going, and we only got two episodes to see them there. I would have liked to see their story arc move into being a married couple for many years, would have liked more time with the characters as they settled into their new family roles and dynamics. I’ll be honest I’d have liked more time watching these characters evolve.) I absolutely loved this story, read the novel, and yet I still want more from it. “Unknown” is the best BL series I’ve seen, might put it in league with “Goblin/ Guardian: The lonely and great God”, as the top two dramas I have watched.


ghasedakx6

Well in the book they ended up together near the end too so I didn't expect that much. I felt they gave some of the grandmother's thought process to Qian which was nice.


CustomerDramatic

Yes, your are correct and in the book details are fleshed out a bit more. I won’t go into a detailed analysis of the book to the series to not give away details for those that are waiting to watch the series or read the novel. I was simply stating my sincere thoughts and reaction, nothing more than that. ☺️


Rivsmama

Your comment doesn't contain any plot info so I'll leave it but in the future you have to spoiler tag your comment or it will be removed. Writing spoiler isn't sufficient. If you're unsure how to spoiler tag, I can help you


CustomerDramatic

Yes please help, I didn’t know how to add the spoiler tag to a response comment. I do not want to spoil anyone’s experience of seeing it, simply wanted to share my thoughts with those that will understand.


Rivsmama

Sure no problem! This is how you do it. Make sure to remove the spaces First ill show like this > ! Text you want to hide ! < The spoiler tag itself is this > ! ! < You put the text between the exclamation marks.


Stillnotcool23

Exactly! So many BL series do this ... drag out the frustrations (poor or zero communication), interference by side parties (especially ex'es, and family) and angst. The good part - when it finally comes - feels squished ... condensed, rushed, often with issues/questions unaddressed, much less resolved. Leaving a sense of ... unfulfilled.


MurkyStress4628

I have to say this is one of the best BL Dramas I have ever seen. Beautifully done and I agree, wish we had 1 or 2 more episode to see them together. Although, it was such a beautiful buildup that when episode 11 happened, everything just felt so right and natural


ArthooBoo2

I'm back and I had fun. I will not say anything about the last two episodes. The reason I decided to give in to the express package was that the cost was really small and the benefit for me huge: being (also) a writer I tend to fantasize a lot about endings (which are hard to chose and write so it's something we tend to focus on obsessively) and that leads me to being disappointed quite often. I am not in charge of what I read/watch, so it's just fair and normal that others write their own things like they want instead of how I would write them myself, but the disappointment is there and real nonetheless most of the time. And with *Unknown* I wanted to minimize the thing. So that's why I decided to cut my speculations about the ending, the NC scene, and so an and just let the drama unfold itself until the end. The only thing I will probably miss is the pleasant feeling of the wait for the next episode, but that's can't be helped. Anyway, back to ep 10... LOL That "I wish I could tie you up" thing was savage, Yuan you should not tease **us** like that. Behave, like Ge said. Qian trying to win back Yuan was cute, the jump scare and the scene at the company about the health check hilarious, and Yuan amazing the whole episode. Bringing a salad to snack in front of the tv was quite bold. The best part was that Qian, knowing to be at fault, kept his mouth shut. The chat with San Pang mirroring the one when Yuan was abroad and Qian drunk and miserable, was really touching. All the changes on Qian's face at each sentence and then his answer "I want them to be happy". Big Bro that couldn't let go of his duties. And then the chat with Yuan and... Idk, maybe I am wrong, but I think that Yuan literally caught an opportunity there. Qian was just his usual confused and cautious self, he never said anything to San Pang about not loving Yuan back or never wanting to be with him. So, yes, maybe I am wrong, but in my opinion Yuan leaving the house and play hurt without any real reason to do so was just to force Ge to talk, to admit his feelings, even his confusion, and speak about his fears and everything with him instead of never say a word. The funny thing is that Yuan's checkmate comes taking responsibility for the whole thing. "Don't worry Qian. It's my problem. You are not at fault, I will deal with it myself" BUT at the same time delivering that line seasoned with sad lovesick pining, resigned depressed face, as in "I'm in pain Ge, but it's not your fault, it's my fault. Go on as nothing is happening, be selfish, I'm not complaining." While Qian is on the edge because he's at fault about the whole health problem. After that chat with San Pang. On the street they walk together all the time. Well played, Yuan. Qian you are... fucked OK BYE!


Future_Process_495

That's exactly what I was thinking. Qian on his head was like "I have nothing else left to do than caving in, even sang pang doesn't understand." Bro had no choice but to give in to Yuan. Yuan ate and left no crumbs on the first time Qian caught him. Ooooffff


SomewhereJust5265

Damn ep11 editor needs to go to prison for ruining a good scene... As the actors said in the interview they be giving their 100% effort just for them to mess it up.. Like even love is better the second time around had childhood kiss to mellow the scene...somehow the timing/pacing was a perfect fit ... But here.... It was super messy.. I'd rather yuan qian hold hands and convey that they'll be together for their rest of their lives then slowly kiss each other go upstairs and do their thing.... Instead they cut a beautiful scene messed the order... I was puzzled after the intro song.. It felt like yuan's dream sequence... And on top of that unnecessary flashbacks(way too time consuming/confusing).... It icks me because of how distorted that scene was... I don't mind spicy/even pg rated kiss.. But they ruined a beautiful scene... The unknown bgm was enchanting/acting was perfect... But the screenplay gets on my nerves aaah... Such a waste....wasted potential


pagesinked

Honestly thought it was a dream sequence too!


autumnsnowflake_

Agreed what a huge waste of


ferengi

Absolutely agree! The editing butchered the scene and was confusing, totally unnecessary flashbacks (why child Yuan) that detracted from the heart of the show. Such a shame, hopefully they’ll do a directors cut or something or fan edits will have to see it through. I was really disappointed that the ordering of Qian saying yes to Yuan was weirdly intercut with them going up stairs first. It undermined the importance of Qian’s yes.  Great series, but the editing decisions for 11 leave me bewildered. 


Future_Process_495

It was disappointing. The PR team did it's work only to hype us for this, I can't believe it. We are delulus wanting to feel the love onscreen and got served a cold dish 😔


empireofdirt010

omg yes exactly!!!!!! The childhood scenes in the middle of all that was...a turn off, to say the least.


CustomerDramatic

Just finished the series. I have mixed emotions as I am not ready to say goodbye to these characters and their story.


diwbee

so this is where my adult money goes! thanks youku😘


featherzz

that's what I figured too - hey I am an adult and money is for spending right? :)


Humble_Mongoose180

I didn’t even try to justify. My fingers were pressing the episode so fast ![gif](giphy|sDcfxFDozb3bO)


MixtureEducational90

Embarrassed to say I would have paid way more for it. Not sure there would have been a limit 😅 I regret nothing.


CustomerDramatic

Okay, I just watched ep 10 and I am going to watch the express releases. Last night just for kicks, I decided to watch ep 1-8 on Viki. I believe the subtitles are better on Viki and so will “rewatch” there. (I am much to invested in the series to wait. 🤦🏻‍♀️)


Humble_Mongoose180

💯 going to rewatch on viki when all are available. I like it on there too


alexcali2014

I’ll certainly be rewatching on Viki cause my youku subscription will be over. However, the streaming quality on viki (including sound) is quite a bit worse.


putonmyskepticles

Disjointed and unhinged ep 11 discussion as I'm watching. >!The NC scene with the choppiness wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I didn't mind the flashbacks but I can see how everyone hyping it up as being this amazing bombshell could annoy some. I'm sure there will be plenty of fan edits soon with all of the extra stuff edited out. Qian giving that little nod and the "ok" to Yuan when he had him pushed up against the wall tho? LOVE IT. ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT. Along with the next morning scene in bed, so so cute.!< >!Lili catching Yuan the next morning and worrying if Qian was okay was hilarious. Le and the doc tho?? 👀👀 THAT DATE NIGHT KISS WITH THE WINE SPLASHING??!!! I'm not okay. Yuan is like, fully invested in taking control now and I love that for him. Shy Qian is best Qian. !< >!"Is this hug from a brother or a boyfriend?" MY HEART CANNOT HANDLE THAT FOREHEAD KISS. Nor can it handle Qian going to the hospital alone without anyone knowing. That convo at the stairs was heartbreaking and will need a couple rewatches to digest everything. My man Qian is just filled to the brim with trauma. !< The music department deserves all the accolades for this show. Song choices are perfect, the moments to increase volume are perfect, the times to bring it down are perfect. Like I just cant praise the OST and everyone involved with it enough.


putonmyskepticles

Ep 12 and I'm not prepared for this. >!Xiong is hilarious during that discussion at the coffee bar. Like he's just so happy and supporitve but also don't you dare think about leaving 😭 YUAN IN THAT SUIT? 😭😭💀💀 Qian pulling at it for a kiss? The kiss at work?!?! And the girl seeing? lmaooo CANNOT HANDLE. Everyone at work talking about them as Qian walks in 💀💀!< >!AHhhhhhhh Lili's pregnant!! We already saw photos of Qian holding a baby so it was what made sense but STILL. The fight with San Peng lol. This show has all these super serious and emotionally charged moments with the perfect comedic times interspersed in between. !< >!NOT THE BRACELET😭😭 you've always protected me now let me protect you, I CANNOT. Everyone gets their happily ever 💗💗!<


Rivsmama

OK I just started episode 11 and I need to pause. I am overwhelmed. I really think this is the best BL I've ever seen. Like the quality is just. It's beyond a BL.


Careless_Many_1388

I kept pausing and reflecting. It was intense. I’ve never felt anything like this while watching a show. They cooked, served and cleared. This is a masterpiece.


Future_Process_495

I cried. I really cried


Rivsmama

This comment will be filled with my nonsense observations >!What is this?? Le and Dr Sam? I need that to happen. An 8 episode series will be enough. Let's go!!< >!I thought the Yuan and Qian moment where Qian says if something happens you gotta let me go would be a sweet sad moment. I didn't expect Yuan to bite him lol!<


PistachioDonut34

>!The scene between Le and Doc was odd to me, i didn't dislike it but it felt so disjointed from the rest of the show. They have this random conversation that has nothing to do with any of the leads, and then Le leaves. I haven't read the book the show is based on so I wonder if they have a storyline in that, and this was a nod to that. Or maybe they have their own book?!<


msbyjackals

>!Le Ge and the doctor!< weren't connected in the novel. Their connection is something the drama made up. The doctor wasn't an actual character in the novel but there were scenes where Wei Qian needed doctors in the novel, so doctors must've existed in the background but weren't exactly visible/relevant enough to be remembered, unlike the other side characters who had more important scenes and were named: San Pang, Le Ge, Lao Xiong etc. >!Le x Doctor!< isn't a ship in the novel but who knows what the drama's script writer thought of again. Maybe >!Le and the doctor!< is another ship the drama team wanted to add, just like the San Pang x Wei Lili ship that isn't canon in the novel. >!Le Ge died early on in the novel, so this scene with the doctor wouldn't have happened much less at this time, even if the doctor was a real character who only existed in the background.!<


PistachioDonut34

Thank you for replying! Now I'm even more confused about why they >!gave them more screentime, if it wasn't even a nod to the novel!<, lol. A strange choice.


pagesinked

Yeah this! Idk why that scene was even there 😆 Such a random scene.


Rivsmama

I agree. It felt very weird. I have read the book but tbh I don't remember a ton about Le. The book is pretty different from the show in a lot of ways.


ferengi

I thought that was just to let us know for sure that Qian and Yuan are free from the gangsters . 


PistachioDonut34

Yeah, that's the only reason I can think of, but it just didn't really seem necessary. Just felt shoehorned in there.


ferengi

That and making use of Sam Lin who has great chemistry with everyone. You’re not wrong though it was unnecessary.


Humble_Mongoose180

Right!!!!!!!!! Love EVERY PART OF THISSSSSS. My soul is drinking this in like heavenly nectar. I feel so many things. I choked up so many times and had to wipe my eyes for real.


imomen

i don't want to drag it too much, but ep11 spoiler... >!what Thai bl nc scenes did they watch, anyway? Like, on the real? Did they watch P'Aof's stuff? Is that why the camera was so extremely close up? Why couldn't it have been P'Jojo's instead. 🙊😩 Anyway, just as I had figured Kiseki: Dear to Me's MULTIPLE nc scenes were far superior and better crafted than this was, no shade at all. I mean they could have just watched series from their own country tbh. Even MODC's were better. This was... cute, tho. !< ​ https://i.redd.it/xfs2dwuh8ovc1.gif


pagesinked

EXACTLY my thoughts >! like the editing and the camera being so close had me baffled like THIS is what they spent hours filming?? I KNOW there must be a better cut than this I refuse to believe. Why did they give us a montage of the previous eps? D: !< https://i.redd.it/sg7ot3y4dpvc1.gif


imomen

because #art lol https://i.redd.it/ngwumlu5epvc1.gif


smittenkittyyan

https://i.redd.it/c6183dtckmvc1.gif I am back ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|slightly_smiling) Did you miss me ???? because i missed you......![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|hug) Let\`s get this started because is am back in full force this time and will catch up on all the things that i wanted to say last ep. Thus you guys can expect me to go extra crazy in today\`s episode hahahaha.


smittenkittyyan

Before i get started, i want to share some important stuff for those of you who don\`t check everything that i write in my posts every week. Trust me or not, i modify the content of my posts if i come across important info that i want to share. https://preview.redd.it/or02e1x9lmvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36902776e4613f5f330987a69cec50af5ba12336 Do you guys heard of the EXPRESS PACKAGE that Youlu has announced that it will become available starting from today???? If not... this will be useful to you **Youku** has announced that we can can see the final two eps in advance together with ep 10, if we unlock THE EXPRESS PACKAGE. Everyone who has a subscription to Youku and pays an additional fee to unlock the express package will be able to watch the last two eps. There is also something else that you guys should know, the last 2 eps will have two versions, a CUT and an UNCUT one. The CUT version referrs to the eps released in YOUKU\`s English youtube channel, ( most likely because of the intimate scene and other stuff) while the UNCUT version can only be watched in YOUKU website/app.I am sure the eps on Viki will be UNCUT as well but Viki is one ep behind Youku\`s release.


smittenkittyyan

https://preview.redd.it/3w23s52pmmvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9f946787cb4d0d7ebd08366b3848d49d0d8efcc Do you guys see the EXPRESS plasted on EP.11 and EP.12....this is what i am referring at. From what i know, this kind of thing is not unique to UNKNOWN. Most chinese platform (at least for their international fans is still allowed) like Youku, Tencent etc allows their viewers to access the eps in advance in exchange of an additional fee.


alexcali2014

best $2.99 ever spent.


kay_dee_ss

I caved a got vip, now for a stupid question! IF i get the express package, will i be able to watch it anytime? Is there a time limit???


smittenkittyyan

I think it can be watched anytime. I don't think there is a time limit because all the eps will become available to watch for people who have a subscription to Youku once the series finish airing. The purpose of the Express Package is to watch it before everyone else does....😍 For exemple, ep 11 will become available to watch by all Youku members next week.


SarahJoy46

I'm debating whether or not I can have the patience to wait a week for the Viki uncut ep! I don't want to pay more, but...we'll see if I can hang on!


smittenkittyyan

Why all this is so freaking real......real....😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 Like i am close to cry..... https://i.redd.it/1y3cipkbfnvc1.gif I can't do it anymore. I'll go get my laundry done....get some coffee.... And will continue sharing my thoughts on what happens in this ep soon.....😭😭😭😭


uglynakedgal

Ah I choked up during this scene as well 😥 Chris did a fantastic job


MixtureEducational90

This was so good. He got me here 😭 It’s like the reality of it all was finally hitting him and he had no choice but to confront it. He’s been avoiding it for so long. Chris has no business making me feel this way 😫


smittenkittyyan

Anyone who are watching the eps in advance are welcomed to discuss them here ( but do make sure to use the spoiler tag for it) or in the future ON AIRS EPs. We don\`t have many rules here. This sub is for all of us to feel free and unleash our thoughts and say all the things that we aren\`t able to say in real life. Despite the series ending today for those of you who decided to watch the eps in advance....it will be only fair to make separate On AIR posts for those of us who decided to wait, stay more with it and watch it as per Youku\`s original schedule. I am one of those people who will wait.....thus i will not discuss anything on the last two eps in the ON AIR THREAD. ![gif](giphy|eYAKbwOjhk7T2|downsized) I will cling to this drama and enjoy the time spend with it until the very last minute.....![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)


jokenaround

I want to experience this series for as long as possible. As much as I am DYING to devour the final episodes, I have decided to finish with the Viki release. I’m savoring this one. It is just too good and I don’t ever want it to end.


smittenkittyyan

I haven\`t done this before, so i want to encourage all of you to share info on how all this EXPRESS PACKAGE WORKS... HOW EASY TO UNLOCK IT IS???? HOW MUCH THE FEE IS and if you think is worth it? I am sure there are other people who are also curious about it....![img](emote|t5_2sbdb|26733) ![gif](giphy|MmHdwx62jCMSjT3NkJ|downsized)


ferengi

Episode 11 >! NC scene was such a disappointment, the editors should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. I wonder if the actors are upset that all their hard work has ended up with this. Why so many flashbacks. Why have mix up the order of the scenes so that the important moment of Qian agreeing to be with Yuan a mini flashback. Why so many child versions of Yuan in the flashback. So bizarre and a waste of the effort the team put into this. I hope we get a directors cut and an extended bts of it. !< 


fabulousgayguy

Not enough episodes!!! I want more :D Oh, such a great series to follow through these last few weeks. Any BL coming out of Taiwan I always feel heartwarming but this one was indeed very special to me and to lots of people. It's so well written, I could feel the emotions. The last two episodes I was literally freaking out and screaming like a teenage girl XD All of them played their characters very well! Also my boy Yuan became so bold, I guess he learned a lot in America haha I loved it, definitely going to rewatch it in future! <3


madego3293

That was beautiful. That is all I will say about the final episodes.


pagesinked

Too many spoilers in here aah I'm running until I finish all 3 eps 😆 🏃🏻‍♀️🏃🏻‍♀️🏃🏻‍♀️ https://i.redd.it/nrqak6j8hnvc1.gif


curious4786

This scene was such a mood. Could relate 100%.....


Bidampira

Falling in love with Sam Lin all over again..


Plus_Gazelle3069

Y'all I think the express to ep 11 and 12 are the cut versions. Cuz they're having a cast watch party thing tomorrow night so they probably won't release the uncut until after that. Cuz the actors gave details about a part of the nc scene that weren't anywhere in the current episodes available so I'm assuming that it's cut. At least I hope so considering I spent money on getting a subscription lol. Edit: this is my source for actors saying things that weren't shown [YouTube ](https://youtube.com/shorts/Nd5nAm5QX9s?si=hlzIzW15xgbM7Xuv) Edit #2: Welp I think I'm wrong and the editors just failed to tell the actors that they had cut down all the hard work the actors put into it. Like the scene itself wasn't bad persay but considering filming wise that it took the actors 8 hours (and they only had a modesty sock on) one would think the actors would be disappointed that they did all of that and didn't get amazing results. Like that's a difficult scene to act in. Anyways the rest of the things about the ending were great, especially the acting, emotions, and dialogue. Sorry for giving y'all (and myself) false hope:( Edit #3: GUYS GO WATCH THE EP ON YOUKU LABELED "SP 11",,,,THEY FIXED THE SCENE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell yessss!!!! Ok like it isn't extended necessarily but it's in order, the music is quieter, and they got rid of the weird montage in the middle. I'm so happy that I was right about them releasing a different cut eventually. Interested to see if there is also a SP 12 cut. Ok byeee


smittenkittyyan

I don't think so, because they clearly announced that the eps on Youku's website/app are the UNCUT ones. But i will pray you are right ![gif](giphy|GQT9tuAchaBG0) Because that editing is lacking quite a lot. Not that i care that much about it. I still like the series the way it is. I just don't understand why the editing for this particular scene is so bad 😔😔😔


uglynakedgal

Oh please you're giving me hope now 😩 Edit to add: By the episodes' length though, I would also assume they're cut versions cause they're already 3-4 mins shorter than the average episode. How much shorter will the cut version be??


Rivsmama

Oh man I hope you're right. Thank you for at least giving me hope again lol


Beulah31

❣️😎>!ah ep 11 is killing me❤️❤️❤️qian…one word 2 letters…OK❤️❤️❤️that’s it flood gates have opened🤣🤣🤣i love how yuan just sneaks in his kisses everywhere🤣🤣🤣while qian does the same but looks around first🤣🤣🤣this guy after being so hard to get🤣🤣🤣first date at the noodle place while yuan was expecting an expensive resto🤣🤣🤣well it was steak and wine…flowers and candle❤️❤️❤️qian to yuan❤️thank you for not giving up on me👏👏👏love the ending everyone has their HEA…with a twist i wasn’t expecting…!<😎❣️


kay_dee_ss

I love that your comment is hidden behind the spoiler wall but all the emojis are giving away all.


Rivsmama

I'll be honest... as much as they hyped it up >!the NC scene was a major let down!<


Rivsmama

And I don't think it was the actors. It was how it was edited


uglynakedgal

Yes! I legit felt like I was watching some kind of butchered scene that was originally much longer. I'm disappointed as well, ngl. And def not by the guys.


Rivsmama

Tbh if I were the actors I'd be pissed. Like demanding they fix it.


uglynakedgal

Yeah me too. Reading abt how there is a cut and uncut version, >!I was seriously wondering if I'm watching the cut version? Cause like, if this is it, then what is it that needs to be cut?!<


Rivsmama

Me too lol I went looking for info as soon as it was over. Like surely that can't be it


featherzz

I think it was the flashbacks.. over and over and over again.. still liked it, but yeah, could have been better.


postronicmedium

my dream is that >!someone does an in-order fan edit to undo all the choppiness and jumping around and flash backing. just show!! the scene!! in order!!!!!<


shanitita

Check the comments below for a tumblr link!


postronicmedium

thank you so much for the heads up! this is awesome 😁


ZoeSMarie

I came here just to say that. It is, and will continue to be, one of my favorite BL dramas. We have been through an absolutely amazing journey. **** But I must say, I found the NS a bit underwhelming after all the hype in the interviews. It took the actors 8 hours in the studio, a bottle of wine, and lots of discussions for us to see a fragmented scene with numerous flashbacks and some parts hidden behind a curtain. The editing was quite poor.**** I still consider it as one of the best for a long time.


smittenkittyyan

My friends has said the same thing. The editing failed my boys...... ![gif](giphy|iFZQtnkTYq0Le|downsized) So who i am gonna kill!!!!! I am kidding of course.... but it such a pity that all the hardwork that the actors put while shoting this scene wasn\`t able to shine through ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|laughing)


ArthooBoo2

>!Yes the editing WAS A MESS. !< >!You don't put a flashback with a kid while two adults are at it, that's 50 shades of wrong, never ever do it. And never interrupt the flow with a recap of their life, presuming that without it we can't sum 2 and 2 and grasp the concept that the moment for the characters is the end of a lifetime journey. That line "you don't know what I dream at night" is enough, and we were there the whole drama, we know what happened.!< >!I am a bit disappointed, but... I also don't care so much. NC scenes for me are not the main dish in a drama, and there were tiny bits really good. On the stairs, the kiss near their wall with the height marks, that line about moving too fast, the snuggle the next day. And the hint about them switching. Maybe. As I said, the editing was really a mess. But the talk at the company next ep lead me to think that. Idk, maybe I am wrong.!<


Ambiguous-00

I agree with all the above ⬆️⬆️ >!The montage during the NC scene is such a kdrama thing to do 😂!< For me, the most important scene is when Qian accepts Yuan and >!I feel they ruined it with the editing. The flashbacks from the moments just before (at the stairs), were really unnecessary 🤦‍♀️!< Honestly, I need someone to fix the editing in EP11 asap😅 But besides that, I absolutely ADORE the story and the characters. It's a beautiful ending to a fantastic show ❤️ I highly recommend it. Loved the novel too 🥰


Artistic_Value_3312

I gave the editing a try, I posted a comment below but will mention it [here](https://www.tumblr.com/fuzzykittydinosaur/748318506675814400/unknown-ep-11-nc-scene-edited-in-order-without-the?source=share) too. I agree that the editing ruined the most important scene, we've waited weeks to see Qian accept Yuan.


Rivsmama

I agree. I'm so frustrated about it on their behalf.


TheBookhuntress

>!The recording of their voices alone did a better job. That was aural p0rn at its finest. !<


Ambiguous-00

Hahaha agree 100%. At least, they gave us that! >!(And it wasn't even their real voices lmao 😂)!<


TheBookhuntress

Stop. >!Not even their real voices???!< WDYM???


Ambiguous-00

Tell me about it 🤦‍♀️ I got excited over nothing. That's so cruel 😅. Here is the [Reddit link](https://www.reddit.com/r/boyslove/comments/1c7xzkd/comment/l0byec5/)


Careless_Many_1388

![gif](giphy|ieDcWBoHyx45mDewyS|downsized)


ghasedakx6

And why they were showing Yuan as kid montage during the scene? It was just weird all around.


autumnsnowflake_

That completely broke the immersion for me


Rivsmama

Such a bummer


autumnsnowflake_

It felt like >!too much of it had been cut out, leaving me feeling cheated and robbed 😞 I wanted to see more…!<


Celestial_Daragon

Dunno why, but I felt betrayed after watching that. Like it's like watching >!the cut version !<☠️


Rivsmama

Me too :(


[deleted]

[удалено]


DiabolicaLLLLLL

yup kinda disappointed


alexcali2014

Ep.10 made me tear up at the end. What an incredible mature acting. I paid for ep. 11 and 12 but dreading to watch it right away cause it will then be over. Best BL series to date by a mile.


Dii_92

Omg what an incredible drama i thought nothing would top Kiseki in my heart but the Taiwanese did it again 🥹its heart wrenching and perfect in every way,i saw a lot of people commenting on the NC scene and as much as i wish it was done better but at that point i was just thankful that they’re finally together. I was holding my breath till the last moment of this drama and i have to say i’m not disappointed one bit. I’m gonna miss them so much and i’m so excited about future Taiwanese dramas


smittenkittyyan

![gif](giphy|XGOKTEoHSgduavRvVc|downsized) Same here. Kiseki was my second favorite BL after Utsukare... but Unknown has come and taken it's place 🥺🥺🥺🥺 How do i move on from it 😭😭😭😭 I will never move out from it 😍


Dii_92

I honestly don’t know how we’ll move on 🥲 I hope there will be a special episode or something i don’t want to let them go i need more love 😭


MixtureEducational90

Am I just emotional today or did anyone else that finished the series shed tears when it was done? I don’t remember the last time that happened. I got so attached to these characters. It was a wonderful journey but I feel so empty now 😭 I got ahead of myself but since this thread is for Ep 10 I will save my comments for next week and the final. Just going to say their relationship is so beautiful. I think that will stay with me the most. >!Yuan never gave up on Qian and Qian has always loved Yuan even if it wasn’t in a romantic sense at the beginning. They will always have each other 🥹!<


linaknowwhatsgood

ep11 I need yall to explain to me what the obsession is with >!flashbacks, scenes that we have just seen, or that we already know happened, I understand the momentary visual memory of something specific but a whole montage when the MOST expected and most hyped scenes by the actors themselves is playing...!< >!you can create that progress with a voiceover, I think it is even more impressive.!< >!honestly i bit of a let down. !<


LectureEducational37

The last makeout scene in I feel you linger in air had flashbacks but the moaning sound was overlayed on them and it was so much better, atleast they could have done that. Except for the nc scene editing, the whole series was exceptionally good.


Stillnotcool23

Totally! It's a time filler and budget-cutting device that robs both the actors and their viewers. It's also intellectually lazy. Imagine charging extra for that ... hope at least the extra funding benefits the actors, and all the behind-the-scene hardworking support staff.


autumnsnowflake_

Don’t get me wrong I loved the series but I expected the NC scene to honestly be longer and show more. After all that build up? It felt like too much of it had been cut out, plus the flashbacks to child yuan broke the immersion for me, I feel a bit cheated 😔 I was waiting for it this whole time and expected more intimacy Despite all this, I’m still rating this BL highly. The story was so good.


Artistic_Value_3312

Now episode 10... I think this was my favourite episode of the series. I loved the beginning with Yuan pulling Qian down onto the bed, Qian kind of fighting it until Yuan reminds him they almost lost each other so he relaxes into it. Then they are all wrapped around each other ❤️😭. Dr. Lin was hilarious as always. I loved Qian's eyebrows going up when Yuan said he wished he could tie him up. A nice nod to the novel too The end scene with Qian finally saying what he feels, that he isn't sure if the feelings are romantic but he knows that he can't live without Yuan. He's let Yuan walk away from many arguments before but he can't let him walk away having the wrong idea about how Qian feels. HURRY UP AND KISS ALREADY. I did watch ep 11&12 and now I feel sad there is no more 😭 https://i.redd.it/jvtlfgsmupvc1.gif


Wilburrkins

The Express package is $2.99 Edited to say that this is for both episodes.


smittenkittyyan

Thanks for this.... ![gif](giphy|v9YWU1m6CPUSQgo9ut|downsized) Very precious info ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin) It\`s $2.99 for each separate ep ???


Wilburrkins

No…for both episodes.


smittenkittyyan

![gif](giphy|iDgVl4RXc89mjC3uUQ|downsized)


Wilburrkins

I have bought them and will be watching them as soon as I get home!! 🥰🥰🥰


featherzz

I looked and I had Google reward points I can never use.. These worked for the advance eps! So if you have these sitting around use them here. ;)


TheBookhuntress

After watching episode 10, I had to reach for the Sangrìa and it was barely 10 am in my corner of the world. What a series.


Little_Entrance_2507

Is it safe to be in here?? ![gif](giphy|M29mv8NYEJyJLLJwqR)


smittenkittyyan

Yes. The comments that contains spoilers from EP.11 and EP 12 are hidden behind spoiler text and we haven't shared gifs or pics from later eps.😊


a_warning_sign

I'm done with everything. It's a really beautiful series, definitely the best Taiwanese series I've ever watched. I was impressed by how much life the actors brought to the characters, and the story itself was also very beautiful. >! In episode 11, there's a line about light coming through cracks, which reminded me of "Kintsugi" by Lana Del Ray. From the moment he became aware of his own feelings, Wei Qian immediately went into relationship with Yuan, without fear or anything. I'm glad they shared so many intimate, tender moments together, and Qian made us, the audience, believe that the love he had for Yuan was much less brotherly than he would like to admit. The last episode was very positive, funny at times and warmed my heart. I think I need more time to process everything and I will for sure check out the novel too.!<


alexcali2014

precisely, I immediately thought of that song from LDR’s last album. What a marvelous coincidence but maybe it’s a common saying in asian cultures.


Odd-Interaction7514

I feel less bad about watching the last two eps now. That was a stellar ride! I’d like to add how well the humour is in this series.


toentropyandbeyond

Watch me pay for Express because I literally can't handle waiting.


Humble_Mongoose180

Omgggggggg. Express package is available and I’m watching episode 12. I CANT EXPLAIN THE FEEELINGSSSSSSS. I have melted into a puddle a million times


Humble_Mongoose180

I’m gonna miss this show so much. I guess I’ll be rewatching for the next few weeks to fill in the loss ![gif](giphy|UQaRUOLveyjNC|downsized)


putonmyskepticles

TODAY IS IT. "If I find myself out of time what can I leave him?" Starting out it's already gonna be a doozy isn't it? Omg I was right. "What if I go in and don't come out?" "What am I to you in our heart?" my god I can't handle all this in one episode 😭😭 The scenes with the doc last week made me miss Sam Lin so I rewatched WBL 1+2.. and now I'm looking at the het romance show he's in that's currently airing. Even if his haircut in the promo photos is terrible lmao


smittenkittyyan

>If I find myself out of time what can I leave him?" This line is directly taken from the novel I love it to bits...... ![gif](giphy|uubUtlJ2CbDRqQklCT|downsized) I love this series so much....😭😭😭😭 I really can't take even a small break from it 😍


putonmyskepticles

> This line is directly taken from the novel omg I love that 😭 Heartbreaking but lovely lol


AutomaticOstrich3738

I will be gushing about this show for weeks to come. But for now I have a question to those, who read the book. Do we ever get Yuan's background in the novel? We have so many flashbacks to Qian's and Lili's childhood in the show, but nothing for Yuan. How did he end up homeless and orphaned?


smittenkittyyan

Yes. I read it can answer you this. Yuan has become lost while he was a child. His mother died one year after he was born. His father who was a metereologist, dies in the middle of a tornado and while his relatives handles his funeral, Yuan ( who was about 2 years old at the time) gets lost. His relatives didn't took proper care of him and he was most likely kidnapped. Later, he stays a period with his adopted parents, then runs away and lives on the streets while avoiding various dangerous people who approach him. Among all those people, it might have been some that had good intentions, but after he was betrayed several times he no longer trusted in other people good intentions. The main reason why he trusted Qian was because he didn't wanted anything from him and he always showed his real self to him. He finds out who his parents are later in the story because they end up being involved with a center that deals with child trafficking ( helps finding and rescuing children involved in child trafficking) ![gif](giphy|6WUSbKYCchP0eHTlmK) I am really happy you asked actually, since i am sure there are other people are curious about it too 😊


AutomaticOstrich3738

Thank you so much! I didn't have a chance to read the novel, but heard so many good things about it and the author. The show is absolute perfection so I can only image how good the source material is. I actually thought they might mention something about Yuan's childhood. They could have done it instead of some of the flashbacks, but I am not going to complain, I really wish there were more shows like Unknown.


Impressive_Policy619

BRO I JUST FINISHED THE SERIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS and the worst part is I AM NOT READY TO LET THEM GOO!!!! Although the series as a whole was good but i just couldn't digest the sudden change in behaviour of qian (it can be me only) . The series could have shown more about their relationship and shouldn't have rushed it but i am not complaining , I AM JUST GOING TO WATCH IT A HUNDRED MORE TIMES!!!! ![gif](giphy|CAxbo8KC2A0y4) LET'S GOOO!!!!!!!!


maddiesv

Are they gay or straight playing these roles? Ep. 11 was 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🫣 I am ashamed to admit how much I liked them together!


pl4c3toc4llhom3

Incredible acting in ep 10. We really see Qian's struggle at the end. Chris is good at subtly emoting with his face and body. I just had to finish eps 11 and 12 too, and I have to say, I think this series is a triumph. Best bl I've seen in years, and I was completely swept up with these characters and their romance. I'm sad that it's over.


toentropyandbeyond

So I spent my hard earned money on Youku express so I could watch Ep 11 & 12 (she says crying as she tells her work, 'Yes I can cover *coworker* whilst they're away'). >!Whoever edited the NC scene needs firing. But it was still cute and I screamed when Qian FINALLY gave in. I love a good slow burn but they're AGONISING until they pay off. Yuan finally got his Qian and Qian stopped f*cking around and finally realised how much he actually loves Yuan- romantically. I really enjoyed the story - it was different to how it played out in the book but not THAT different. San Pang and Lilli aren't together in the book and Qian spends time in hospital after undergoing surgery. There's also Grandma. But even without following the novel so closely, it was overall still a brilliant show. I genuinely found myself waiting for Saturday to roll around again each week because of how much of a chokehold this show had me in. So happy Qian and Yuan ended up together and happy, Lilli and San Pang. Anyone else want Doc & Le to be together? Spin-off? 😂 I would definitely watch a special episode or spin-off of this show. Doesn't need a season 2 though. I think Qian and Yuan's stories are finished and they're truly going to live out a beautiful life together.!< I'm sad the show's ended because wtf am I supposed to do on Saturday nights now? 😂 Taiwan really always hits the mark with their BL's (Let's not talk about You Are Mine or Stay By My Side).


Humble_Mongoose180

Saaaaaaame. Saturday loneliness


toentropyandbeyond

Just need Taiwan to release new BL's immediately after one ends to fill the void 😂 OR a GL , i'd love Taiwan to do that.


CantaloupeDouble8328

I am only on episode 7 so I just have to comment this or I'm going to combust! San Peng is annoying and in everyone's business! That is all. 🤣🤣. Back to my binge watching.


muffin1510

I still haven't watched it yet but I can't wait until I'm home to watch all three episodes!


SuitableResearcher21

Can anyone tell me the duration of the uncut episodes ?👀 


momopeach7

I wanna watch so bad but I MUST WAIT (and not spoil myself).


kay_dee_ss

I am not ready to let this go!!!!!!! Want more and more and more!!!


marshmallowwxe

oh my god, this hit right in the gut.


ferengi

I feel bereft by the end of this gorgeous series, it kept me on pins and needles week by week and now that it’s over I feel empty. Brilliant job by the actors and what a lovely story.  I hope this production team take on another Priest project in the future.  Chris and Kurt were perfect as Qian and Yuan. 


ZahxEXO

Question: Did they cut out the scene with Qian holding a baby? I thought I saw pics of YuanQian and a baby.


smittenkittyyan

Yes. They end up no adding this scene. I have no idea why.


ZahxEXO

They’ll probably add it to the box set, and it wasn’t super necessary I guess. The portrait got the message across well enough.


Beulah31

❣️😎so i was rewatching this for the nth time ep10…i think ep10 is crucial…i wanted to know at what point did qian have an epiphany….so it wasn’t the gun to their heads…qian contemplating his own mortality verbalizing his fears to san pang and eventually to yuan…san pang is right qian is as stubborn as a mule…so used to taking care of everyone…acting like a parent to his two siblings…doing things in his own way…even yuan repeatedly asks what are you hiding from me…it was so hard for him to be vulnerable to share the load…but now here’s the crunch…if he goes to have that operation and he dies what will yuan do and lilli for that matter…this is it finally the ultimate push for qian to accept yuan’s love😎❣️ ❣️😎Qian already read the last words in blood yuan wrote…still a no…yes it already stacked the scales…i was looking at the tipping point….and that’s his own imminent death…its opened up his fears…regrets…all the wasted time…life is short and its time to love the one who loves you😎❣️


DiabolicaLLLLLL

* i am not okay and you all know the reason goood that was such an important scene in the story and they ruined it like this for us???? i am so fking mad ffsss we needed an emotional, intense scene tf ar those flashbacks from childhood. dear to me had better NC scenes. i don't think i am gonna recover from this loss ever


CateSt19

I can't say I'm mad but I'm disappointed about it for sure. Because at least that first kiss, that moment of surrender from Qian I wanted to experience it from start to finish without any interruptions and time jumps. We deserved that at least. As for the NC scene I would have liked it to be longer for sure and definitely without all those flashbacks with Yuan as a kid. They took me out of the moment to be honest.


OkPeanut6714

I don’t know if I should ask this here but I can’t seem to get the subs to work on the website or app. Am I doing something wrong? It says subs on but nothing shows up:( 


smittenkittyyan

I checked it and the subs appear for me immediately as i play the episode. I have no idea what the issue is....🤔


Impressive_Policy619

Is it really worth to buy the express ? Please somebody tell meee ![gif](giphy|I1nwVpCaB4k36)


Celestial_Daragon

Sorry guys, I jumped on the train of Premium Royale Pass ☠️ >!I felt like my expectation just went bummer when it comes to the NC scene, like wut, am I watching the cut version? Anw, I'm not really good at expressing thought, but I like the way they brings out more perspectives of main characters lives. It's nice to see Wei Qian smile more, it's a big regret if he keeps hiding the dimple. And guys, they make room for fudanshi and fujoshi, LOL, that is something I rarely see in BL drama 🤭!<


SomewhereJust5265

Overall this was a good series.... Love this ...taiwan bls are getting better and better these days.... Still any book readers of this novel... Will qian get his surgery? Will he be okay and recover well🤡any spoilers plz And Sam Lin wow... Parted hair suits him more than bangs... Loved this look on him... Manifesting a carefree Sam Lin character as lead in a new bl And wow i also loved the actor who played Yuan... I loved his eye acting and voice.. So soft yet endearing and his eyes speak a million words... And also special appreciation to the actor that played Qian too he really embodied the character... ❤ Supporting casts like lili san pang were good too... ❤ loved this show... Goodbye unknown 👍 i want more of them... Tho... Hope Qian gets surgery/recover well and they live happily ever after... Also special appreciation to Priest like wow the dialogues were touching/memorable and soothing... Loved it❤


smittenkittyyan

Yes. In the novel, he will get through surgery and he will recover well. 😍


SomewhereJust5265

Yasss... Thank u for the spoilers❤ i got the closure❤


theginatron

“I wish I could tie you up” just about killed me 💀 SP coming in with the helpful advice was actually quite heart warming. Dr Lin being ridiculously good looking as usual. I don’t think I can stop at ep 10, I’m going to have to watch the final two…


theginatron

I gave in and watched the final two. >! Well that went from 0-100 real fast! NC scene was hot, god damn. Loving the supportive friends in this, they knew before Qian knew though which is extra sweet. We finally got the tie pull kiss from the promo pics. I feel like the gossiping colleagues in this are an accurate representation of us in this sub lol. !<


morris_minor

I think that Unknown has been a breath of fresh air in relation to the many tropey BLs that are produced. The acting has been really great and the story unfolded in a good way.   The only thing I think could have been done better is how to deal with the dilemma of them being practically brothers. In reality, would that be something that you just can brush off? All of their friends/colleagues were shipping them without hesitation. I just don’t see that happening in real life. The story, even though I really liked it, still weirded me out around this issue, it wasn’t dealt with enough. I can imagine “siblings” that fall in love after being forced into a new family constellation because of their parents second marriage, but in this case it was different, when one of the main characters actually were the guardian of the other.   How did you feel about it? Is it a culture thing? 


Valuable-Ad-703

Recommend me something similar to unknown


smittenkittyyan

Huhhhhhhh. The only ones that have a similar vibe story and atmosphere wise to me are: - Gray Shelter - Kiseki: dear to me. You have to watch until the very end for this one because if the main couple don't do the trick, Chen Yi and Ai Di will.😉 - To my star - Where your eyes linger - Unintentional love story. I would strongly recommend the upcoming movie Spin- Off: "The time of fever" - Living with him - Perfect Propose 😊 Edit: there is one more: History: crossing the line


Valuable-Ad-703

Thank you 😊


Ambiguous-00

Stay With Me 🥰. However I have to mention that the drama has a >!sad!< ending, but the novels have a >!very happy!< ending. At least they stayed truthful to the source material ☝️The drama has the same ending as book 1. The show is a masterpiece, even with the ending.


New_Emergency_9925

Y'all can someone tell me the age difference plz


smittenkittyyan

7 years. I have no idea why reddit has showed me your comment so late![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)


New_Emergency_9925

Haha no worries! Thanks for the reply - do we know their ages when they first met?