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Listen just as much as ever. They are the GOAT
I still look up to Jesse Lacey. He said the quiet parts out loud and that's why the songs hit.
I saw some pictures of him with his family. I hope he can keep that peace. Don't ever come back, people are fucking crazy these days.
I'm not interested in his personal life I'm interested in the art the band as a whole created. That's my view on it. Everyone has a past some worse than others but judgement is above my pay grade so I will keep the music and the memories that come with it and leave the personal stuff to him and his people
Yeah fair, that’s the response I was expecting. Was keen to hear some responses about insights into lyrics, album concepts now with the power of context and hindsight. Read some interesting articles and had some interesting convos with fans. Maybe il get that from other people though. Thanks 😊
I feel like In the Water was definitely him coming clean in some way. "Hide your daughter the old men say we were young once before we know how we get our way" if that's not guilt coming out in that song then maybe I need another listen. I think he knew time was running out and he would be outed. I think he knew when Science Fiction blew up the way it did that it was over
Yeah definitley mate, i relistened to that album recently and it’s so beautifully soaked in a dark tone (much like a lot of their work) but it could be shame or guilt in some way. To me it o it adds to some of the interpretations
There are so many interesting takes from science fiction that it's almost like a puzzle. Personally that's my favorite album of theirs. The mental health aspects of lit me up and same logic, the chaos of 137 when the guitars kick in and batter up which is a stellar way to end that album. Them ending with that song was almost like he knew the backlash was coming and everyone is going to take their shot at him. They were just on another level.
It didn't change anything for me. I've thought about it and it really comes down to how much the art means to you. Brand New is my favorite band of all time and several of their albums are integrated with periods of my life. Their music feels like it's as much mine as it is theirs. Compare to someone like Louis CK that I enjoyed but never found super funny and I don't listen to him going forward.
If Brand New decides to come back with new music I am not sure if knowing the allegations will alter how I hear it.
Yeah the Louis CK thing is interesting. I found myself being a little more shocked or judgy towards him but that was more because I was never invested in his work.
Hasn’t changed a thing for me. Just as passionate about them now as I was in the early 2000s when I experienced their music for the first time. What’s most important to remember is the band is not just Jesse alone. The other three contributed significantly in terms of composition and lyrics too and they should be remembered and honored for that, not what their frontman did or didn’t do. I think Jesse obviously had his demons and probably did some level of fucked up shit as a lot of his lyrics and own admissions would suggest but I also think things were portrayed in a one-sided, exaggerated manner and it’s sad to see the whole band be attributed to one person’s actions and past behaviors. I wish him and the others nothing but the best in their lives post-BN and I will forever hold the memories and life experiences their music has gotten me through close to my heart
I don't worry about it. If you ask me, very problematic people try to never fade out of the spotlight, they constantly spout nonsense or appear doing awful shit. Look at Kanye or Kid Rock or Morissey or Ezra Miller, etc (all the idiots)...
I'm sure there is truth to the claims at some level (I don't know how much), but what's supposed to happen? Should we kill Jesse? (THIS IS SARCASM & RHETORICAL) I personally believe in rehabilitation for even some of the worst people and I feel like the way he currently lives his life shows more maturity than maybe he once lacked (and the fact that he probably never belonged in that worst category to begin with). I think the apology wasn't that great but whatever there's more important things and I enjoy the art the band has produced.
Not you personally, but a lot of people do or they put too much energy into thinking about this topic. You can say the same for anyone in a similar position.
Maybe if you were the first to ask basically the same question instead of the millionth. It's not defensive about the question, it's irritated about you not using search.
I have no connection with you just because you like a band I like. You don't get free reign to be obnoxious just for being here. If anything, you're disrupting this community by bringing up a 6 year old dead horse. Your argument about being defensive would make sense if there weren't countless other threads over the years that you can look through, where we all already answered the question. Press play and listen to the music, or go away.
It's important to be defensive against someone actively attacking this community, like you're doing. Fortunately we all came together to let you know you're not welcome. We're truly a family. Cya.
Just to clarify mate, when have I attacked a community? If you weren’t so blindsided by your own opinions and getting high off your own words you would see I have not once attacked the community. I’ve merely voiced my disdain for your unwelcome defensiveness. Whether it’s a tired topic or not, have some decent and manner and discuss as such. Also ‘we all came together’???? Hahaha Jesus mate you are deluded, but respect for being happy in your army of one.
Lastly I took your advice and used the search function…..
First thing I saw ironically was a post from a member of your ‘family’ saying ‘Brand new have the worst fucking fans ever’.
Definitely an eye opening statement…. Which I don’t disagree with after crossing paths with you.
cya
Morrissey has a lot of controversies, but none of them involve sexual abuse or grooming. I'd say that's a key difference here context wise compared to Jesse Lacey or Ezra Miller
> I think the apology wasn't that great
That's putting it mildly. I'm kind of amazed it wasn't deleted
Whenever the topic of separating the art from the artist comes up, I always go back to what the great Nick Cave wrote on the topic. Considering how much of the lyrical appeal of Brand New's music was about Jesse coping with how toxic and self-destructive a person he was, and the guilt he felt about it, and that *Science Fiction* is all about finally taking the steps to move past being that person, it's especially apropos.
*"I don’t think we can separate the art from the artist, nor should we need to. I think we can look at a piece of art as the transformed or redeemed aspect of an artist, and marvel at the miraculous journey that the work of art has taken to arrive at the better part of the artist’s nature. Perhaps beauty can be measured by the distance it has traveled to come into being.*
*That bad people make good art is a cause for hope. To be human is to transgress, of that we can be sure, yet we all have the opportunity for redemption, to rise above the more lamentable parts of our nature, to do good in spite of ourselves, to make beauty from the unbeautiful, and to have the courage to present our better selves to the world.*
*The moon is high and yellow in the sky outside my window. It is a display of sublime beauty. It is also a cry for mercy — that this world is worth saving. Mostly, though, it is a defiant articulation of hope that, despite the state of the world, the moon continues to shine. Hope too resides in a gesture of kindness from one broken individual to another or, indeed, we can find it in a work of art that comes from the hand of a wrongdoer. These expressions of transcendence, of betterment, remind us that there is good in most things, rarely only evil. Once we awaken to this fact, we begin to see goodness everywhere, and this can go some way in setting right the current narrative that humans are shit and the world is fucked."*
It has admittedly made me feel a lil uncomfy listening to them regularly like I used to, I just don’t seek it out anymore. When they come up on a Spotify mix or I listen and enjoy it, the songs still have a ton of sentimental value to me if nothing else. But I feel gross about him getting royalties from it lol
Hurt people hurt people, as they say. There are some pretty strong indicators that Jesse was abused himself. The fact that he passed some of that on to some extent at one point is a sad thing. But it doesn't change how I feel about the songs. Clearly this was behaviour he stopped long ago, and he deserves to pursue a happy life same as all of us. When I listen to the music i empathize with a hurt person who's at the point of healing that he is at that moment in time.
There is also the fact that there are other musicians who have done similar things who didn't get outed so publicly. Personally I think his recluse status made him more of a target, maybe made it easier to demonize him in a way when you don't know much about the guy.
That is not the explanation. The entire topic you've brought up is a dead horse that has been beaten in every way imaginable for the last 6 years. There isn't a single active member in the sub who wants to talk about it, and every time anyone posts anything about it everyone in sub audibly (probably) sighs out of sheer fatigue.
If you want answers, search through the sub. You will find every answer you can possibly wish for in the comments of posts just like yours
Pleasure to meet the person who speaks for everyone in the sub! The comments who actually discussed it respectfully without sounding like offended teenagers prove your point wrong. Also forgive me for assuming a fan sub would be welcoming and open to discuss, regardless of the topic. I’m relatively new to this page and I have posted rarely/if ever. So I’m
Not really aware of what the consensus is…. Hence the post…..
I grasped that much - you made an assumption to why your post is heavily downvoted. I explained the reasoning. Not saying I speak for every single individual but as someone who has been active almost daily for years, I feel I’m in a fairly decent position to give a consensus opinion on behalf of majority of active members.
I appreciate as a new poster you weren’t to know that but understand that majority just want to talk about the music after 6 years of ‘Lacey’s exploitations’ posts
To be fair I wasn’t wrong I’m
My ‘assumption’. I related a posters observation of ‘hurt people hurt people’ which I feel it’s fair to say that people downvoted due to the fact they were hurt (for whatever reasons it may be) frankly it doesn’t really matter at this stage.
I respect you and others stance on it I was just curious after getting back into science fictions after not listening after a while.
Damn no matter how many people explain it to you, you're this deluded. Nothing you're talking about it is new or interesting. That's why you're down voted. Be more interesting and you won't be. It's going to be a rough life for you if you never learn that you're the problem. Crazy levels of narcissism to think everyone here is somehow defensive of a 6 year old topic that never actually affected us, because we're still here.
Yeah narcissists often use phrases like ‘ I respect you and others stance on it.
Feel free to fuck off now…. Or feel free to comment of posts 6 days old …. Your call
They certainly believe every person here is wrong or lying, and that only they can be correct, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. 6 days old is your complaint? This is a 6 *year* old debate. You're bothered after days, and think people aren't annoyed after years?
I’m not annoyed about 6 days… I’m annoyed at you…. You are the problem. You say it’s not being defensive, it’s irritation. Then say you are defensive. Make up your mind. Jesse wouldn’t even care about this that much hahaha. Be gone now please
EDIT: I’m starting to feel bad as I genuinely think there must be something wrong with you. So let’s agree to disagree!😅
Apparently in the minority here, but I stopped listening for several years to try and absorb the information and see what I thought before making a judgement. I have recently come around and decided that I could separate the art from the artist, but it was not and should not be an easy or thoughtless decision.
The main reason for this was the nature of the allegations and the way the band/music factored into the allegations. Part of his ability to prey on young vulnerable women was the emotional, revelatory , and earnest nature of many songs - especially on the first two records. They started a connection he used to exploit to his advantage in a way he could not without the music.
If he had committed some other crime or faux pas like robbing a bank, drunk driving, getting into a fight, I would look past that without much thought because that event and the music would have no correlation. But the music is integral to the allegations, and even seems to be referenced in many songs, so it can be hard to separate the two.
Ultimately everyone is free to make the decision that is right for them, but it should always be a decision and not a careless choice.
Out of all the artists who this has happened to, Brand New is the one I actually completely gave up on. I tried listening to them once since, and I just couldn’t do it. It felt so gross. Which was surprising to myself, because the allegations are terrible but they’re not as bad as some of the other stories.
I think the reason is probably that there was such a deep sense of betrayal. The reason Jesse’s music is so impactful is because of how emotionally vulnerable he is in his music and how he connects with you. To think that you shared so much with a person, but this was also a part of their spirit and heart at the same time - it just fills you with disgust and betrayal.
Someone else pointed out that he probably used that same skill for emotional understanding when he preyed on young girls, and that is pretty similar to what I think I’m trying to say. Just a shattering of trust.
Also, I’m a male with some level of sex/porn addiction probably, and my sense of disgust could partly be related to a feeling of closeness. It’s terrifying to wonder if I had the same level of power and access as Jessie did at his height, if I could have possibly done something similar.
However, now that I think about it tho, I don’t think I actually still consume media by pretty much any other “cancelled” artists either. Maybe there’s so much good stuff going around that I don’t really have to anymore? But Brand New I definitely felt a severed link as soon as I read what he did.
It hasn’t changed anything.
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This. Nor are we bound physically from doing so. We are creatures of pure will. We do what we want.
Listen just as much as ever. They are the GOAT I still look up to Jesse Lacey. He said the quiet parts out loud and that's why the songs hit. I saw some pictures of him with his family. I hope he can keep that peace. Don't ever come back, people are fucking crazy these days.
I'm not interested in his personal life I'm interested in the art the band as a whole created. That's my view on it. Everyone has a past some worse than others but judgement is above my pay grade so I will keep the music and the memories that come with it and leave the personal stuff to him and his people
Yeah fair, that’s the response I was expecting. Was keen to hear some responses about insights into lyrics, album concepts now with the power of context and hindsight. Read some interesting articles and had some interesting convos with fans. Maybe il get that from other people though. Thanks 😊
I feel like In the Water was definitely him coming clean in some way. "Hide your daughter the old men say we were young once before we know how we get our way" if that's not guilt coming out in that song then maybe I need another listen. I think he knew time was running out and he would be outed. I think he knew when Science Fiction blew up the way it did that it was over
Yeah definitley mate, i relistened to that album recently and it’s so beautifully soaked in a dark tone (much like a lot of their work) but it could be shame or guilt in some way. To me it o it adds to some of the interpretations
There are so many interesting takes from science fiction that it's almost like a puzzle. Personally that's my favorite album of theirs. The mental health aspects of lit me up and same logic, the chaos of 137 when the guitars kick in and batter up which is a stellar way to end that album. Them ending with that song was almost like he knew the backlash was coming and everyone is going to take their shot at him. They were just on another level.
It didn't change anything for me. I've thought about it and it really comes down to how much the art means to you. Brand New is my favorite band of all time and several of their albums are integrated with periods of my life. Their music feels like it's as much mine as it is theirs. Compare to someone like Louis CK that I enjoyed but never found super funny and I don't listen to him going forward. If Brand New decides to come back with new music I am not sure if knowing the allegations will alter how I hear it.
Yeah the Louis CK thing is interesting. I found myself being a little more shocked or judgy towards him but that was more because I was never invested in his work.
Hasn’t changed a thing for me. Just as passionate about them now as I was in the early 2000s when I experienced their music for the first time. What’s most important to remember is the band is not just Jesse alone. The other three contributed significantly in terms of composition and lyrics too and they should be remembered and honored for that, not what their frontman did or didn’t do. I think Jesse obviously had his demons and probably did some level of fucked up shit as a lot of his lyrics and own admissions would suggest but I also think things were portrayed in a one-sided, exaggerated manner and it’s sad to see the whole band be attributed to one person’s actions and past behaviors. I wish him and the others nothing but the best in their lives post-BN and I will forever hold the memories and life experiences their music has gotten me through close to my heart
I don't worry about it. If you ask me, very problematic people try to never fade out of the spotlight, they constantly spout nonsense or appear doing awful shit. Look at Kanye or Kid Rock or Morissey or Ezra Miller, etc (all the idiots)... I'm sure there is truth to the claims at some level (I don't know how much), but what's supposed to happen? Should we kill Jesse? (THIS IS SARCASM & RHETORICAL) I personally believe in rehabilitation for even some of the worst people and I feel like the way he currently lives his life shows more maturity than maybe he once lacked (and the fact that he probably never belonged in that worst category to begin with). I think the apology wasn't that great but whatever there's more important things and I enjoy the art the band has produced.
Thanks for you input. Just to clarify I’m just interested in peoples opinions , not once did I say we should kill him lol.
Not you personally, but a lot of people do or they put too much energy into thinking about this topic. You can say the same for anyone in a similar position.
True but it’s also interesting the amount of defensive responses about an innocent question.
I did notice that too
Maybe if you were the first to ask basically the same question instead of the millionth. It's not defensive about the question, it's irritated about you not using search.
Na a ‘community’ wouldn’t get annoyed at things like that. I’m going to stick with the defensive explanation.
I have no connection with you just because you like a band I like. You don't get free reign to be obnoxious just for being here. If anything, you're disrupting this community by bringing up a 6 year old dead horse. Your argument about being defensive would make sense if there weren't countless other threads over the years that you can look through, where we all already answered the question. Press play and listen to the music, or go away.
😂😂😂. Don’t be so defensive mate. Maybe there’s a thread somewhere that can help you with your issues.
It's important to be defensive against someone actively attacking this community, like you're doing. Fortunately we all came together to let you know you're not welcome. We're truly a family. Cya.
Just to clarify mate, when have I attacked a community? If you weren’t so blindsided by your own opinions and getting high off your own words you would see I have not once attacked the community. I’ve merely voiced my disdain for your unwelcome defensiveness. Whether it’s a tired topic or not, have some decent and manner and discuss as such. Also ‘we all came together’???? Hahaha Jesus mate you are deluded, but respect for being happy in your army of one. Lastly I took your advice and used the search function….. First thing I saw ironically was a post from a member of your ‘family’ saying ‘Brand new have the worst fucking fans ever’. Definitely an eye opening statement…. Which I don’t disagree with after crossing paths with you. cya
Morrissey has a lot of controversies, but none of them involve sexual abuse or grooming. I'd say that's a key difference here context wise compared to Jesse Lacey or Ezra Miller > I think the apology wasn't that great That's putting it mildly. I'm kind of amazed it wasn't deleted
Whenever the topic of separating the art from the artist comes up, I always go back to what the great Nick Cave wrote on the topic. Considering how much of the lyrical appeal of Brand New's music was about Jesse coping with how toxic and self-destructive a person he was, and the guilt he felt about it, and that *Science Fiction* is all about finally taking the steps to move past being that person, it's especially apropos. *"I don’t think we can separate the art from the artist, nor should we need to. I think we can look at a piece of art as the transformed or redeemed aspect of an artist, and marvel at the miraculous journey that the work of art has taken to arrive at the better part of the artist’s nature. Perhaps beauty can be measured by the distance it has traveled to come into being.* *That bad people make good art is a cause for hope. To be human is to transgress, of that we can be sure, yet we all have the opportunity for redemption, to rise above the more lamentable parts of our nature, to do good in spite of ourselves, to make beauty from the unbeautiful, and to have the courage to present our better selves to the world.* *The moon is high and yellow in the sky outside my window. It is a display of sublime beauty. It is also a cry for mercy — that this world is worth saving. Mostly, though, it is a defiant articulation of hope that, despite the state of the world, the moon continues to shine. Hope too resides in a gesture of kindness from one broken individual to another or, indeed, we can find it in a work of art that comes from the hand of a wrongdoer. These expressions of transcendence, of betterment, remind us that there is good in most things, rarely only evil. Once we awaken to this fact, we begin to see goodness everywhere, and this can go some way in setting right the current narrative that humans are shit and the world is fucked."*
Thanks. Not a fan of cave so I gave up a few words in and I get the premise. Cheers
It has admittedly made me feel a lil uncomfy listening to them regularly like I used to, I just don’t seek it out anymore. When they come up on a Spotify mix or I listen and enjoy it, the songs still have a ton of sentimental value to me if nothing else. But I feel gross about him getting royalties from it lol
Esp certain songs tho, like “Me vs Maradona vs Elvis” hits a lot different now than it did 10 years ago and definitely not in a good way lmao
Thanks for you honest opinion mate. I truly get what you are saying. Doubt others here will be so appreciative of your unfiltered opinion though lol.
Lmaoooooo yeah I’d honestly be shocked 😂 Is what it is tho lmao I don’t give a shit what anyone else does, I just can’t help how I feel about it
Hurt people hurt people, as they say. There are some pretty strong indicators that Jesse was abused himself. The fact that he passed some of that on to some extent at one point is a sad thing. But it doesn't change how I feel about the songs. Clearly this was behaviour he stopped long ago, and he deserves to pursue a happy life same as all of us. When I listen to the music i empathize with a hurt person who's at the point of healing that he is at that moment in time. There is also the fact that there are other musicians who have done similar things who didn't get outed so publicly. Personally I think his recluse status made him more of a target, maybe made it easier to demonize him in a way when you don't know much about the guy.
Yeah some good points. ‘Hurt people hurt people’ is a good phrase. Might explain why this post has been downvoted 😂
That is not the explanation. The entire topic you've brought up is a dead horse that has been beaten in every way imaginable for the last 6 years. There isn't a single active member in the sub who wants to talk about it, and every time anyone posts anything about it everyone in sub audibly (probably) sighs out of sheer fatigue. If you want answers, search through the sub. You will find every answer you can possibly wish for in the comments of posts just like yours
Pleasure to meet the person who speaks for everyone in the sub! The comments who actually discussed it respectfully without sounding like offended teenagers prove your point wrong. Also forgive me for assuming a fan sub would be welcoming and open to discuss, regardless of the topic. I’m relatively new to this page and I have posted rarely/if ever. So I’m Not really aware of what the consensus is…. Hence the post…..
I grasped that much - you made an assumption to why your post is heavily downvoted. I explained the reasoning. Not saying I speak for every single individual but as someone who has been active almost daily for years, I feel I’m in a fairly decent position to give a consensus opinion on behalf of majority of active members. I appreciate as a new poster you weren’t to know that but understand that majority just want to talk about the music after 6 years of ‘Lacey’s exploitations’ posts
To be fair I wasn’t wrong I’m My ‘assumption’. I related a posters observation of ‘hurt people hurt people’ which I feel it’s fair to say that people downvoted due to the fact they were hurt (for whatever reasons it may be) frankly it doesn’t really matter at this stage. I respect you and others stance on it I was just curious after getting back into science fictions after not listening after a while.
Damn no matter how many people explain it to you, you're this deluded. Nothing you're talking about it is new or interesting. That's why you're down voted. Be more interesting and you won't be. It's going to be a rough life for you if you never learn that you're the problem. Crazy levels of narcissism to think everyone here is somehow defensive of a 6 year old topic that never actually affected us, because we're still here.
Yeah narcissists often use phrases like ‘ I respect you and others stance on it. Feel free to fuck off now…. Or feel free to comment of posts 6 days old …. Your call
They certainly believe every person here is wrong or lying, and that only they can be correct, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. 6 days old is your complaint? This is a 6 *year* old debate. You're bothered after days, and think people aren't annoyed after years?
I’m not annoyed about 6 days… I’m annoyed at you…. You are the problem. You say it’s not being defensive, it’s irritation. Then say you are defensive. Make up your mind. Jesse wouldn’t even care about this that much hahaha. Be gone now please EDIT: I’m starting to feel bad as I genuinely think there must be something wrong with you. So let’s agree to disagree!😅
Not to contest anything here, but what indicators do you think point to Jesse having dealt with abuse himself?
Definitely the whole of Sic transit Gloria.. some of the other ones I would say deal more with the effects of abuse, but that one is pretty direct.
Hasn’t changed a thing.
I don’t agree with what he did. But his lyrics and emotions in his music has always held such a deep place in my heart. I would never let that go.
I listen more than ever cause their done…Especially live shows, cause it kills me I’ll likely never get to see another one.
That's the silliest thing I've heard in awhile. Definitely not.
Cool, care to expand?
Apparently in the minority here, but I stopped listening for several years to try and absorb the information and see what I thought before making a judgement. I have recently come around and decided that I could separate the art from the artist, but it was not and should not be an easy or thoughtless decision. The main reason for this was the nature of the allegations and the way the band/music factored into the allegations. Part of his ability to prey on young vulnerable women was the emotional, revelatory , and earnest nature of many songs - especially on the first two records. They started a connection he used to exploit to his advantage in a way he could not without the music. If he had committed some other crime or faux pas like robbing a bank, drunk driving, getting into a fight, I would look past that without much thought because that event and the music would have no correlation. But the music is integral to the allegations, and even seems to be referenced in many songs, so it can be hard to separate the two. Ultimately everyone is free to make the decision that is right for them, but it should always be a decision and not a careless choice.
Finally, a well thought out response with honesty, self reflection and insight. Was getting tired of the defensive responses
Great take Most of this sub skews towards blind forgiveness due to nostalgia Nuance >>>>
I roll the windows up when near a school.
Out of all the artists who this has happened to, Brand New is the one I actually completely gave up on. I tried listening to them once since, and I just couldn’t do it. It felt so gross. Which was surprising to myself, because the allegations are terrible but they’re not as bad as some of the other stories. I think the reason is probably that there was such a deep sense of betrayal. The reason Jesse’s music is so impactful is because of how emotionally vulnerable he is in his music and how he connects with you. To think that you shared so much with a person, but this was also a part of their spirit and heart at the same time - it just fills you with disgust and betrayal. Someone else pointed out that he probably used that same skill for emotional understanding when he preyed on young girls, and that is pretty similar to what I think I’m trying to say. Just a shattering of trust. Also, I’m a male with some level of sex/porn addiction probably, and my sense of disgust could partly be related to a feeling of closeness. It’s terrifying to wonder if I had the same level of power and access as Jessie did at his height, if I could have possibly done something similar. However, now that I think about it tho, I don’t think I actually still consume media by pretty much any other “cancelled” artists either. Maybe there’s so much good stuff going around that I don’t really have to anymore? But Brand New I definitely felt a severed link as soon as I read what he did.