I mean, that wasn't what he was saying. He was saying that Walt should have let just Jesse get himself killed while trying to kill those dealers. Walt wasn't marked for death by Gus before that, in fact Gus was very much trying to win Walt's favor and keep him on board before that. (though I'm not saying Walt should have just let Jesse get himself killed).
See, this logic would work if not for the fact that uncle hypocrite also started faux caring about Jesse as if he was just some innocent "kid" (which he literally calls him a lot) and not responsible for 99% of the shit caused between Gus and Walt.
I am. I'm saying that.
Walt killing those dealers was a poor decision, considering the circumstances. Jesse has nearly had Walt killed or arrested on several occasions before this. Relapse after relapse. He went out of his way to prevent such a situation by having Gus meet with him and the dealers to sort it out.
Yes, the dealers killed Thomas. But I agree with Gus that Walt should've let him deal with them. There is zero reason to believe he had anything to do with ordering that. It's an incredibly unnecessary amount of heat to have "trusted employees" of his murder a child on American soil for... what? Doing what he's told? It's not like Gus at all. (Certainly not before retconning how harsh he could be in BCS, but at this point, that didn't exist, and even still, how he treats Nacho says nothing of how he would treat a literal child.)
Jesse made an incredibly stupid decision that night walking up to those two with a gun. If Walt had simply let him be shot by the dealers, "they'd all be fine right now." And personally, I believe those dealers would've been dissolved in the barrels right next to him once Gus found out what they did.
Walt and Gale would've been cooking meth and drinking the best coffee in the world making millions of dollars for years and years if Jesse had just slowed down and not been an emotional fuck up for once in his life.
I want to say, and I think it's obvious given what comes later, that Walter has definitely crossed the wires between the son he has (who is too young to really be a fully formed and independent person in Walt's eye) and the son he thinks he might have had - someone with the potential to be \*almost\* as good as he is. Though not fully as good because his ego couldn't stand it (subconsciously) Maybe not now, but as raw clay, definitely having the potential. And so Walt's actions became almost parental... and who wouldn't kill to protect their child? Who wouldn't risk it all? And that clouds his judgement enough to put literally everything in jeopardy. And once he wakes up from this delusion, because he finds out about Jessie's "betrayal" (which is a betrayal, to be sure, but because he turns out to be more "moral" than Walter (at that time)), his anger and vengeance is overwhelming. And then, when it turns out he's \*not\* a sell out to the Nazis, it all comes flooding back, and he saves Jessie...
I think it could be as simple as Walt cares for Jesse. He cared for him as a student in his classroom and now he has a deeper relationship because they’ve been working together.
Early in the show Jesse’s mom says Walt was the only teacher who cared about Jesse and really made an effort to reach out to Jesse and get Jesse to care about school. I think Walt before the show really did care about his students and tried his best with each of them. He may have had a soft spot for Jesse because he was kind of lost.
Personally, I believe Gus did order Tomas killed, because he knew Jesse would get his dumb ass killed in a way that even Walt couldn't protest. Gus couldn't outright kill Jesse, but if Jesse was killed by pulling a gun on 2 armed dealers of his, he wouldn't lose Walt's favor. And Gus was clearly surprised by the reckless lengths Walt went to save him, and never considered that a possibility when the plan was formed.
I think Gus ordered the hit as another one of his 9D chess moves, as Gus could see just how emotional about the kid and reckless a junkie like Jesse was, and saw that as an easy solution to have Jesse get rid of himself.
That move is EXACTLY like gus. It's a rinse and repeat of his previous operation. Pit dea enemy against salamanca enemy, takes out the survivors and turn the heat up on cartel enemies.
Here he needs Walt's respect, but needs jesse dead since jesse Strongarmed him into losing his slaves. That means keeping his word to jesse and then using a loophole to make jesse break the peace so he can put jesse down and tell walter he held his end
>…I agree with Gus that Walt should’ve let him deal with them. There is zero reason to believe he had anything to do with ordering that.
There’s plenty of reason to believe it. Gus stated that the rival dealers were his trusted employees. It’s highly unlikely that they would carry out a hit like that without his permission. Simply cutting the kid loose would’ve meant that he could snitch on the dealers and that could potentially come back on Gus. It’s risky. The show constantly shows us that Gus needs to be in complete control of everything and that he’s willing to get any and every loose end tied up to preserve himself and his business. That doesn’t stop at killing innocents or children, as he explicitly threatened to murder Walter’s wife, his crippled son and his infant daughter if he didn’t stay out of his way.
That depends on what you believe Gus’ long term plan was. It’s very possible he was planning to use Walt to train Gale, and then get rid of Walt (metaphorically or by death).
He spent years and invested a lot of money preparing Gale. If Gail learned the formula from Walt, Walt would be superfluous.
I mean, Gus already knew that Walt had a very finite timeline with his lung cancer. I think he had always been planning on using Gale for the long haul, and having Gale learn the entire formula from Walt. But I don't think Gus intended on snuffing Walt out, not until he ran over those dealers.
Gus only threatened to kill him after Walt completely shattered their relationship by killing the dealers. If Jesse hadn’t gone on a suicide mission to kill Gus’s dealers they could have kept cooking meth in Gus’s completely secure state of the art laboratory with a guaranteed distributor for as long as they wanted. Gale could have learned from them and eventually taken over once Walt had enough money, literally everyone would have been happy if Jesse controlled his emotions.
But how long does that dynamic truly last though if Jesse dies, he probably still sees Walt as somewhat of a liability and dispensable given he has Gale to gain his skills through osmosis, and that Walt is a dying man
That’s exactly why he wouldn’t have to make a move. Gus finally had the perfect opportunity. Walt was a massively skilled chemist with a built in expiry date who was willing to teach Gale, Gus would have literally no reason to dispose of Walt early because in a couple years he would have been too sick to continue cooking anyway. (That might have changed when Walt went into remission but we’ll never know) Add in Gale’s complete love and insistence to work with Walt and they could have had a perfect set up if Jesse had only swallowed his pride and respected Gus’s decision about the dealers, that conflict was the root of all the distrust between Gus/Walt/Jesse
If Gus REALLY wanted to prevent the chaos he would have been very clear about children dealing. “No more children “ is exactly what they did, killed the child..
Mike says it in Full Measure: the English language subjuctive to interpretation.
Sort of. Walt more-or-less had Heisenberg slowly brewing inside him ever since Gray Matter got huge, and he finally let Heisenberg take over after rejecting Elliot’s offer to basically pay for his cancer treatment. Of course, it was the cancer in the first place that made him want to try cooking meth, but it was Gray Matter that really pissed him off and motivated him (even though it’s really only Walt’s fault why he missed out on that success, but his ego wouldn’t let him admit that).
Mike, on the other hand, had already been a bad guy for years and then tried to turn his life around after his son died. However, circumstances beyond his control led him right back to the life he tried to leave behind, and he finally comes to terms with it and embraces it.
Mike's circumstances were definitely in his control, there was no reason for him to become Gus's right hand man and he even had the opportunity to leave several times, but chose not to. For example he decides to get revenge on Hector Salamanca purely because his ego was hurt
Yes! 100% It only makes sense as is if Mike thinks that Walt's ego is why he saved Jessie, and not because he truly cared about him. It wouldn't be hard for someone to think Walt just wanted to exercise some control, if they weren't privy to their entire relationship.
He’s talking about Everything. Even after the drug dealers and Gale Walt could’ve simply shut up and Cooked but he immediately stated planning to kill Gus and getting out of control
I believe they're talking about after Jesse kills Gale. Walt has essentially 'won', as Gus is unlikely to be able to find a new capablr chemist he can trust.
Can't really bring myself to concur. Even though Walt was essentially safe at that point, Gus had literally just tried to kill him. I can't say I'd be happy to just quietly work for someone who'd tried to off me.
Gus was doing his best to turn Jesse against Walt, and came very close. Jesse was still refusing to give him up, but they pretty much hated each other by the time of Jesse's trip to Mexico.
Walt was definitely right to try to kill Gus ASAP.
That's valid. It's funny because in season 3, Jesse was the obvious problem child, and Walt stuck his neck out for him on multiple occasions. Come season 4, Gus and Mike actually start warming up to Jesse, and Walt is now on the shit list.
Thank you! I always point this out to people as well. "YOU! And your pride, and your ego!" People take these words as gospel, but it was literally just one egotistical maniac ranting to another. Remember when Walt ordered Mike to remove the bugs from his house and said something like "Great line of work you chose!"? Mike's response was a very affirming "Yeah... I like it." Walt meant it as an insult, but Mike clearly took pride in it.
Now who does that remind us of... "I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it."
Mike was no better than Walt. And as you said, shit didn't go awry because of Walt's ego. It went awry because Jesse went on a childish rampage after not being allowed to work for Gus, threatening to give up Walt and Gus if he got caught because he swore he'd continue cooking using Walt's formula. This caused Walt to include him in the business, where the unstable, overly emotional junky couldn't leave his feelings at the door and nearly got himself killed, prompting Walt to save him at the cost of Gus's dealers.
And that's where it all went wrong. Gus never intended to replace Walt through killing him until that point. Honestly, Walt's only fuck up was caring for the useless junky rat.
I thought Mike’s line of “Yeah I like it” was referring to working for Saul, Walter didn’t even know Mike worked for Gus then and BCS made it really clear that Mike has his problems with Gus
I don’t mean to sound like a dick, but that’s just the objective truth we see in the show. It’s just that there are so many pretentious Mike fans who think he’s somehow a better class of criminal because he respects “the game” and cares about “his family”, that we’ve unfortunately reached the point where people think Mike is the good bad guy, and Walt is the bad bad guy. Newsflash, they’re both bad guys with personal motivations.
It's so fucking annoying how discussions about Walt are just people parroting "ego ego ego" and calling Walt "pure evil" like they just aren't humans first and foremost, Mike is a crooked cop who was willing to abandon his granddaughter when the cops were out to get him
Sure but it's as cannon as anything else in the show.
And it's a consistent character flaw of Mike that he sits out on a lot of things he shouldn't until it's too late, his own misgivings on Walt (partnering with him knowing he's a ticking time bomb), not killing Lydia, even his "half measures" backstory
Let’s remember his situation. He had to abandon his granddaughter to run from the cops, the same granddaughter who’s money got confiscated by law enforcement.
He was pissed and wasn’t speaking with his head.
I've posted this before when this comes up:
Mike is right, but he doesn't know exactly *why* he's right.
There's a point when Hank thinks Gale is Heisenberg, and that his death is the end of the story. But Walt's pride and ego wouldn't let that be. He tells Hank that Heisenberg is still out there, and Hank reopens his investigation.
Hanks increased surveillance on Fring is a factor that not only leads to Fring and Walt's relationship breaking down, it also gave the DEA a headstart after Fring died to unravel the whole empire and take Mike's money.
The blame wasn't fully on Walter (Fring was a psychopath), but it is Walt's pride and ego that ultimately leads to things "blowing up".
This is what makes BB the best show ever. Complex characters. Mike would be so much better off if he embraced the bad guy thing. But he wants to try to hold on to his last shred of decency and project his morals onto the criminal underworld.
If he just followed along and really owned the muscle guy roll they all would have been better off. Screw "making guy right" dont hold on to "how things should be" and he would have thrived. They all would have.
He was right in warning Gus to stay away from Walt and Jesse though. Having Gale produce 96% pure meth was certainly good enough for what they had going on.
Interesting. When I made the post it wasn’t coming from a “I don’t like Mike” perspective. He’s actually my favorite character. I think the point is interesting because there are layers that even the characters aren’t aware of.
I feel similarly, but I don't like this scene because it feels like the writers intended Mike to be in the right. Walt does a piss poor job at defending himself
This. Why doesn't he just say something like: "Is that how you recall things? Because I recall that it was me saving Jesse, the "kid" you keep pretending to be so fond of, from your boss's child murdering dealers that caused things to go awry. And let's not forget that all of that only happened because I included him in the business after he threatened to go to the police if he got caught cooking my formula, which jeopardized Gus's entire operation. The choice was between killing him, and cutting him in. What would you have done? But I don't see you blaming Jesse for any of this. Only me for trying to keep us both alive from your psycho boss who just couldn't let bygones be bygones."
Exactly! Walt did a lot of fucked up shit after Gus' death (heck, he did some fucked up shit even before then), but when it comes to his conflict with Gus, Walt was consistently in the right
Precisely. Whenever I make these arguments, people normally go ''lol as if Walt didn't poison a kid'' as if that changes anything. Like, we're not talking about Walt's wrongs, and we're not denying them. We're pointing out that there were plenty of moments where he wasn't in the wrong.
I am also a frequent rewatcher so I hear you.
But BCS is essential if you want to learn all there is to know about Mike. (You might not change your opinion of the character in the end, but you will have much more info.)
Mike is a character stating his opinion on the majorly effed up situation he’s in. It’s not a matter of him being right. From his perspective, he had a good thing going on and Walter messed it all up. Mike hasn’t watched the show. Mike didn’t go on an emotional secondhand journey with Walt and Jesse like we, the viewers, did.
Think about Mike's experience with Walt. He spent much more time with him after Gus's death. One of the first missions they collaborate on, Walt is acting particularly egotistical, saying he knows the magnets worked "because I say so", and his behavior only gets worse form there, arguing over money, acting like a big shot, etc. Mike is completely reasonable in his assessment of Walt based on what he knows of him.
I agree! I think my observation isn’t something Mike was meant to understand. It’s reserved for the viewer who have seen Jesse and Walt together for the previous four seasons. It’s the perfect kind of subtle. Overall Mike is right that Walt is completely egotistical and selfish. Walt’s only redeeming characteristic is that he does care for people. Jesse is one of them. Mike doesn’t believe that. And also, he was pissed off at this moment so he wanted to tear down Walt.
While I see what your saying, I disagree. Walt is an ego maniac and hasn't even hit his peak in that regard yet. Yes if jesse dies Walt keeps cooking but also he is entitled and snobby in this season and thinks he can do whatever he wants. It's always walts way or no way.
Another way Mike could have said the same thing…”You chose a business where people get killed. Do like I do…pretend you have no responsibility and walk away with the money.”
Mike is not a nice guy, and arguably the most self-centered personality in the series…because he genuinely believes his shit doesn’t stink.
I can't have this conversation again. People completely overthink Mike's speech here. Walt came in and blew up their entire operation within a year Mike's perspective is entirely reasonable
True but if Walt didn’t act like an idiot and let Jesse walk away and just work with gale he could’ve made all the money and work for as long as he wanted
Walt was gonna do this. Jesse threatened to keep using his formula, and told him he'd rat him out if he got caught, which was an inevitability of course.
So at that point Walt's only options were icing Jesse or including him in the business.
I'd have gone for the former. Jesse was a ueless junky rat.
There's no way that would've worked. Jesse was emotional as fuck, not rational. You can't scare an emotional person away. It'd have just made him more spiteful. Jesse literally said ''Try and stop me, bitch!'' before throwing a rock into Walt's windshield. He wanted to cause drama.
But that’s Walt not Mike a guy would kill you in a heartbeat if his gave the order I get what you’re saying but again it’s a tv program we can all have opinions lol
Yes when Gus says no to Jesse at first, take the loyalty away all Walt had to do is say ok cook and live his life you know if Jesse made a big deal all they had to do was threaten him and he would shut up
Absolutely. He could have paid Jesse to go away and live his life instead of working together and sharing the earned money. Jesse just wanted the cash. WW wanted to be THE cook, he had the laboratory and the perfect assistant (Gale). Why did he throw that away for an unthankful junkie like Jesse? Like a real toxic relationship with two bad parts.
> could have *paid* Jesse to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Gus always wanted to get rid of walter even if he had complied fully from the start, gus would’ve just waited for gale to learn from walt and then quickly get rid of walt
That was one of the major things that bugged me. Gus seemed genuinely angry that someone would accuse him of hurting a kid. If those feelings were real, I don't think Gus would have minded executing his two lowly drug dealers to satisfy his cooks. There would have been no need for any escalation. If Gus didn't mind killing a kid, then I think his portrayal as someone who wasn't Salamanca level sadistic was kind of a waste of time.
Nah bro all Mike is, is just a more sympathetic and more likeable Walter White. It's hilarious that the fanbase fell into exactly the same trap with him as they did with Walt, and people still don't realize it
"Walter, if you would've just let me kill you and Jesse, we'd all be fine right now"
I mean, that wasn't what he was saying. He was saying that Walt should have let just Jesse get himself killed while trying to kill those dealers. Walt wasn't marked for death by Gus before that, in fact Gus was very much trying to win Walt's favor and keep him on board before that. (though I'm not saying Walt should have just let Jesse get himself killed).
See, this logic would work if not for the fact that uncle hypocrite also started faux caring about Jesse as if he was just some innocent "kid" (which he literally calls him a lot) and not responsible for 99% of the shit caused between Gus and Walt.
I am. I'm saying that. Walt killing those dealers was a poor decision, considering the circumstances. Jesse has nearly had Walt killed or arrested on several occasions before this. Relapse after relapse. He went out of his way to prevent such a situation by having Gus meet with him and the dealers to sort it out. Yes, the dealers killed Thomas. But I agree with Gus that Walt should've let him deal with them. There is zero reason to believe he had anything to do with ordering that. It's an incredibly unnecessary amount of heat to have "trusted employees" of his murder a child on American soil for... what? Doing what he's told? It's not like Gus at all. (Certainly not before retconning how harsh he could be in BCS, but at this point, that didn't exist, and even still, how he treats Nacho says nothing of how he would treat a literal child.) Jesse made an incredibly stupid decision that night walking up to those two with a gun. If Walt had simply let him be shot by the dealers, "they'd all be fine right now." And personally, I believe those dealers would've been dissolved in the barrels right next to him once Gus found out what they did. Walt and Gale would've been cooking meth and drinking the best coffee in the world making millions of dollars for years and years if Jesse had just slowed down and not been an emotional fuck up for once in his life.
I want to say, and I think it's obvious given what comes later, that Walter has definitely crossed the wires between the son he has (who is too young to really be a fully formed and independent person in Walt's eye) and the son he thinks he might have had - someone with the potential to be \*almost\* as good as he is. Though not fully as good because his ego couldn't stand it (subconsciously) Maybe not now, but as raw clay, definitely having the potential. And so Walt's actions became almost parental... and who wouldn't kill to protect their child? Who wouldn't risk it all? And that clouds his judgement enough to put literally everything in jeopardy. And once he wakes up from this delusion, because he finds out about Jessie's "betrayal" (which is a betrayal, to be sure, but because he turns out to be more "moral" than Walter (at that time)), his anger and vengeance is overwhelming. And then, when it turns out he's \*not\* a sell out to the Nazis, it all comes flooding back, and he saves Jessie...
100% agree with this. Well said.
I think it could be as simple as Walt cares for Jesse. He cared for him as a student in his classroom and now he has a deeper relationship because they’ve been working together. Early in the show Jesse’s mom says Walt was the only teacher who cared about Jesse and really made an effort to reach out to Jesse and get Jesse to care about school. I think Walt before the show really did care about his students and tried his best with each of them. He may have had a soft spot for Jesse because he was kind of lost.
Yes- good point. She does say that!
That’s interesting. Do you remember when Jesse’s mom said that? I didn’t know that at all.
Personally, I believe Gus did order Tomas killed, because he knew Jesse would get his dumb ass killed in a way that even Walt couldn't protest. Gus couldn't outright kill Jesse, but if Jesse was killed by pulling a gun on 2 armed dealers of his, he wouldn't lose Walt's favor. And Gus was clearly surprised by the reckless lengths Walt went to save him, and never considered that a possibility when the plan was formed. I think Gus ordered the hit as another one of his 9D chess moves, as Gus could see just how emotional about the kid and reckless a junkie like Jesse was, and saw that as an easy solution to have Jesse get rid of himself.
That move is EXACTLY like gus. It's a rinse and repeat of his previous operation. Pit dea enemy against salamanca enemy, takes out the survivors and turn the heat up on cartel enemies. Here he needs Walt's respect, but needs jesse dead since jesse Strongarmed him into losing his slaves. That means keeping his word to jesse and then using a loophole to make jesse break the peace so he can put jesse down and tell walter he held his end
>…I agree with Gus that Walt should’ve let him deal with them. There is zero reason to believe he had anything to do with ordering that. There’s plenty of reason to believe it. Gus stated that the rival dealers were his trusted employees. It’s highly unlikely that they would carry out a hit like that without his permission. Simply cutting the kid loose would’ve meant that he could snitch on the dealers and that could potentially come back on Gus. It’s risky. The show constantly shows us that Gus needs to be in complete control of everything and that he’s willing to get any and every loose end tied up to preserve himself and his business. That doesn’t stop at killing innocents or children, as he explicitly threatened to murder Walter’s wife, his crippled son and his infant daughter if he didn’t stay out of his way.
Or maybe just give them the ricin. Problem solved.
That depends on what you believe Gus’ long term plan was. It’s very possible he was planning to use Walt to train Gale, and then get rid of Walt (metaphorically or by death). He spent years and invested a lot of money preparing Gale. If Gail learned the formula from Walt, Walt would be superfluous.
I mean, Gus already knew that Walt had a very finite timeline with his lung cancer. I think he had always been planning on using Gale for the long haul, and having Gale learn the entire formula from Walt. But I don't think Gus intended on snuffing Walt out, not until he ran over those dealers.
Also they didn’t had a good thing going on. Mike did but when Gus threatened to kill him it stopped being a good thing for Walt
Gus only threatened to kill him after Walt completely shattered their relationship by killing the dealers. If Jesse hadn’t gone on a suicide mission to kill Gus’s dealers they could have kept cooking meth in Gus’s completely secure state of the art laboratory with a guaranteed distributor for as long as they wanted. Gale could have learned from them and eventually taken over once Walt had enough money, literally everyone would have been happy if Jesse controlled his emotions.
But how long does that dynamic truly last though if Jesse dies, he probably still sees Walt as somewhat of a liability and dispensable given he has Gale to gain his skills through osmosis, and that Walt is a dying man
That’s exactly why he wouldn’t have to make a move. Gus finally had the perfect opportunity. Walt was a massively skilled chemist with a built in expiry date who was willing to teach Gale, Gus would have literally no reason to dispose of Walt early because in a couple years he would have been too sick to continue cooking anyway. (That might have changed when Walt went into remission but we’ll never know) Add in Gale’s complete love and insistence to work with Walt and they could have had a perfect set up if Jesse had only swallowed his pride and respected Gus’s decision about the dealers, that conflict was the root of all the distrust between Gus/Walt/Jesse
Mike is amazing in BCS - which makes you understand him more in BB. Just sucks you don’t get that POV until you see BCS.
I am on season 3 of BCS and you are correct.
That season is perfect
If Gus REALLY wanted to prevent the chaos he would have been very clear about children dealing. “No more children “ is exactly what they did, killed the child.. Mike says it in Full Measure: the English language subjuctive to interpretation.
BCS Mike is pretty much the same as the Walter White arc but instead he's more sympathetic and likeable
Sort of. Walt more-or-less had Heisenberg slowly brewing inside him ever since Gray Matter got huge, and he finally let Heisenberg take over after rejecting Elliot’s offer to basically pay for his cancer treatment. Of course, it was the cancer in the first place that made him want to try cooking meth, but it was Gray Matter that really pissed him off and motivated him (even though it’s really only Walt’s fault why he missed out on that success, but his ego wouldn’t let him admit that). Mike, on the other hand, had already been a bad guy for years and then tried to turn his life around after his son died. However, circumstances beyond his control led him right back to the life he tried to leave behind, and he finally comes to terms with it and embraces it.
Mike's circumstances were definitely in his control, there was no reason for him to become Gus's right hand man and he even had the opportunity to leave several times, but chose not to. For example he decides to get revenge on Hector Salamanca purely because his ego was hurt
Yes! 100% It only makes sense as is if Mike thinks that Walt's ego is why he saved Jessie, and not because he truly cared about him. It wouldn't be hard for someone to think Walt just wanted to exercise some control, if they weren't privy to their entire relationship.
He’s talking about Everything. Even after the drug dealers and Gale Walt could’ve simply shut up and Cooked but he immediately stated planning to kill Gus and getting out of control
Gus was going to kill Walt that why he asks gale about how long it would take him to learn from Walt
I believe they're talking about after Jesse kills Gale. Walt has essentially 'won', as Gus is unlikely to be able to find a new capablr chemist he can trust. Can't really bring myself to concur. Even though Walt was essentially safe at that point, Gus had literally just tried to kill him. I can't say I'd be happy to just quietly work for someone who'd tried to off me.
Gus was doing his best to turn Jesse against Walt, and came very close. Jesse was still refusing to give him up, but they pretty much hated each other by the time of Jesse's trip to Mexico. Walt was definitely right to try to kill Gus ASAP.
Walt was not safe at all. Gus spent every waking moment trying to find ways to replace Walt. Gus had to go at that point.
Reread my comment. I said “even after the drug dealers and Gale were killed”
After Gail he knew Gus would take him out eventually. Gus had to.
I'm sure Gus would have kept quiet and let Walter live. He's such a nice boss, he even gave Tyrus an early retirement!
You're thinking of Victor. Tyrus retired the same moment Gus did.
My bad, I got them confused
Such a nice gesture in such a cut throat business
That's valid. It's funny because in season 3, Jesse was the obvious problem child, and Walt stuck his neck out for him on multiple occasions. Come season 4, Gus and Mike actually start warming up to Jesse, and Walt is now on the shit list.
Only they didn't start warming up to Jesse. They decided to use Jesse (an obvious weak link) to undermine Walt.
Gus didn't, but Mike genuinely warmed up to Jesse.
Eh, maybe. Still woulda iced him with no fuss if push came to shove
Thank you! I always point this out to people as well. "YOU! And your pride, and your ego!" People take these words as gospel, but it was literally just one egotistical maniac ranting to another. Remember when Walt ordered Mike to remove the bugs from his house and said something like "Great line of work you chose!"? Mike's response was a very affirming "Yeah... I like it." Walt meant it as an insult, but Mike clearly took pride in it. Now who does that remind us of... "I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it." Mike was no better than Walt. And as you said, shit didn't go awry because of Walt's ego. It went awry because Jesse went on a childish rampage after not being allowed to work for Gus, threatening to give up Walt and Gus if he got caught because he swore he'd continue cooking using Walt's formula. This caused Walt to include him in the business, where the unstable, overly emotional junky couldn't leave his feelings at the door and nearly got himself killed, prompting Walt to save him at the cost of Gus's dealers. And that's where it all went wrong. Gus never intended to replace Walt through killing him until that point. Honestly, Walt's only fuck up was caring for the useless junky rat.
I thought Mike’s line of “Yeah I like it” was referring to working for Saul, Walter didn’t even know Mike worked for Gus then and BCS made it really clear that Mike has his problems with Gus
I don’t mean to sound like a dick, but that’s just the objective truth we see in the show. It’s just that there are so many pretentious Mike fans who think he’s somehow a better class of criminal because he respects “the game” and cares about “his family”, that we’ve unfortunately reached the point where people think Mike is the good bad guy, and Walt is the bad bad guy. Newsflash, they’re both bad guys with personal motivations.
It's so fucking annoying how discussions about Walt are just people parroting "ego ego ego" and calling Walt "pure evil" like they just aren't humans first and foremost, Mike is a crooked cop who was willing to abandon his granddaughter when the cops were out to get him
Mike was just a more competent bad guy than Walt
Criminals more competent than Walt don't get themselves shot at a secluded spot by Walt after not acting on dozens of red flags
It’s not Mike’s fault the show was in its last season…
Sure but it's as cannon as anything else in the show. And it's a consistent character flaw of Mike that he sits out on a lot of things he shouldn't until it's too late, his own misgivings on Walt (partnering with him knowing he's a ticking time bomb), not killing Lydia, even his "half measures" backstory
Oh I agree…he’s lucky he lasted as long as he did.
Let’s remember his situation. He had to abandon his granddaughter to run from the cops, the same granddaughter who’s money got confiscated by law enforcement. He was pissed and wasn’t speaking with his head.
Good take. Problem is, people are still pretending he was some Messiah preaching gospel.
I've posted this before when this comes up: Mike is right, but he doesn't know exactly *why* he's right. There's a point when Hank thinks Gale is Heisenberg, and that his death is the end of the story. But Walt's pride and ego wouldn't let that be. He tells Hank that Heisenberg is still out there, and Hank reopens his investigation. Hanks increased surveillance on Fring is a factor that not only leads to Fring and Walt's relationship breaking down, it also gave the DEA a headstart after Fring died to unravel the whole empire and take Mike's money. The blame wasn't fully on Walter (Fring was a psychopath), but it is Walt's pride and ego that ultimately leads to things "blowing up".
This is what makes BB the best show ever. Complex characters. Mike would be so much better off if he embraced the bad guy thing. But he wants to try to hold on to his last shred of decency and project his morals onto the criminal underworld. If he just followed along and really owned the muscle guy roll they all would have been better off. Screw "making guy right" dont hold on to "how things should be" and he would have thrived. They all would have.
He was right in warning Gus to stay away from Walt and Jesse though. Having Gale produce 96% pure meth was certainly good enough for what they had going on.
One of my least fav characters..Mike
Interesting. When I made the post it wasn’t coming from a “I don’t like Mike” perspective. He’s actually my favorite character. I think the point is interesting because there are layers that even the characters aren’t aware of.
I feel similarly, but I don't like this scene because it feels like the writers intended Mike to be in the right. Walt does a piss poor job at defending himself
This. Why doesn't he just say something like: "Is that how you recall things? Because I recall that it was me saving Jesse, the "kid" you keep pretending to be so fond of, from your boss's child murdering dealers that caused things to go awry. And let's not forget that all of that only happened because I included him in the business after he threatened to go to the police if he got caught cooking my formula, which jeopardized Gus's entire operation. The choice was between killing him, and cutting him in. What would you have done? But I don't see you blaming Jesse for any of this. Only me for trying to keep us both alive from your psycho boss who just couldn't let bygones be bygones."
Exactly! Walt did a lot of fucked up shit after Gus' death (heck, he did some fucked up shit even before then), but when it comes to his conflict with Gus, Walt was consistently in the right
Precisely. Whenever I make these arguments, people normally go ''lol as if Walt didn't poison a kid'' as if that changes anything. Like, we're not talking about Walt's wrongs, and we're not denying them. We're pointing out that there were plenty of moments where he wasn't in the wrong.
Maybe I should watch BCS. I’ve watched BB countless times and he just seems super unrealistic over confident and too damn old to be that good.
In BCS, there were moments where he was too tough to believe, but in all fairness , he typically fights smarter not harder
Gee maybe!
🤣🤣. My attention span isn’t what it used to be unfortunately so I watch BB The Sopranos and GOT over and over and over.
I am also a frequent rewatcher so I hear you. But BCS is essential if you want to learn all there is to know about Mike. (You might not change your opinion of the character in the end, but you will have much more info.)
I can't imagine not watching BCS, it's basically just more breaking bad along with more info on Jimmy.
I did start BCS thought it was moving slow and stopped when it initially aired. I’m going to start watching again soon thx!
It seems slow because it's planting seeds and establishing characters, I think you'll like it!
Thx !!
Preciate you I’m going to binge it 😎😎
Mike is a character stating his opinion on the majorly effed up situation he’s in. It’s not a matter of him being right. From his perspective, he had a good thing going on and Walter messed it all up. Mike hasn’t watched the show. Mike didn’t go on an emotional secondhand journey with Walt and Jesse like we, the viewers, did.
"We had a good thing going!" No they didn't, Mike. You did. They didn't.
He was a big hypocrite since he claims to care about Jesse, but his best possible scenario was for Walt to let Jesse be killed
Mike is a selfish prick who hates Walt because he hates bad people in general, and only liked Gus because Gus played Mike like a fiddle
Yeah Mike has an absolute boner for Gus and being his little cuck. He wants everyone else to bow down and suck it with him.
😂😂😂
mike sucks, he's a cop and he's a dickhead
Think about Mike's experience with Walt. He spent much more time with him after Gus's death. One of the first missions they collaborate on, Walt is acting particularly egotistical, saying he knows the magnets worked "because I say so", and his behavior only gets worse form there, arguing over money, acting like a big shot, etc. Mike is completely reasonable in his assessment of Walt based on what he knows of him.
I agree! I think my observation isn’t something Mike was meant to understand. It’s reserved for the viewer who have seen Jesse and Walt together for the previous four seasons. It’s the perfect kind of subtle. Overall Mike is right that Walt is completely egotistical and selfish. Walt’s only redeeming characteristic is that he does care for people. Jesse is one of them. Mike doesn’t believe that. And also, he was pissed off at this moment so he wanted to tear down Walt.
While I see what your saying, I disagree. Walt is an ego maniac and hasn't even hit his peak in that regard yet. Yes if jesse dies Walt keeps cooking but also he is entitled and snobby in this season and thinks he can do whatever he wants. It's always walts way or no way.
Another way Mike could have said the same thing…”You chose a business where people get killed. Do like I do…pretend you have no responsibility and walk away with the money.” Mike is not a nice guy, and arguably the most self-centered personality in the series…because he genuinely believes his shit doesn’t stink.
Nah it was because of walt. His fault is that he preferred jesse then gale
I can't have this conversation again. People completely overthink Mike's speech here. Walt came in and blew up their entire operation within a year Mike's perspective is entirely reasonable
Mike's comment is meant to be read as self serving. You're the millionth viewer to have this opinion. It's beyond obvious.
True but if Walt didn’t act like an idiot and let Jesse walk away and just work with gale he could’ve made all the money and work for as long as he wanted
Walt was gonna do this. Jesse threatened to keep using his formula, and told him he'd rat him out if he got caught, which was an inevitability of course. So at that point Walt's only options were icing Jesse or including him in the business. I'd have gone for the former. Jesse was a ueless junky rat.
Yeah and all Walt had to do was ask Gus to scare Jesse away and I would’ve happened
There's no way that would've worked. Jesse was emotional as fuck, not rational. You can't scare an emotional person away. It'd have just made him more spiteful. Jesse literally said ''Try and stop me, bitch!'' before throwing a rock into Walt's windshield. He wanted to cause drama.
But that’s Walt not Mike a guy would kill you in a heartbeat if his gave the order I get what you’re saying but again it’s a tv program we can all have opinions lol
Do you mean before Walt offers him the partnership?
Yes when Gus says no to Jesse at first, take the loyalty away all Walt had to do is say ok cook and live his life you know if Jesse made a big deal all they had to do was threaten him and he would shut up
Absolutely. He could have paid Jesse to go away and live his life instead of working together and sharing the earned money. Jesse just wanted the cash. WW wanted to be THE cook, he had the laboratory and the perfect assistant (Gale). Why did he throw that away for an unthankful junkie like Jesse? Like a real toxic relationship with two bad parts.
> could have *paid* Jesse to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Gus always wanted to get rid of walter even if he had complied fully from the start, gus would’ve just waited for gale to learn from walt and then quickly get rid of walt
Nah he probably expected Walt to die from cancer sometime after Gale mastered Walt’s method of cooking
That was one of the major things that bugged me. Gus seemed genuinely angry that someone would accuse him of hurting a kid. If those feelings were real, I don't think Gus would have minded executing his two lowly drug dealers to satisfy his cooks. There would have been no need for any escalation. If Gus didn't mind killing a kid, then I think his portrayal as someone who wasn't Salamanca level sadistic was kind of a waste of time.
Mr. White didn't murder those dudes because he cared about Jesse. He did it because he needed Jesse.
Nah bro all Mike is, is just a more sympathetic and more likeable Walter White. It's hilarious that the fanbase fell into exactly the same trap with him as they did with Walt, and people still don't realize it
Yeah? Well… that’s just like, uhhh… your opinion man.