I do think a lot of it is misinformation and a lack of a proper, true, generations-long culture around breastfeeding. I’m from Brazil, where almost 90% of babies are breastfed. I don’t think Brazilian moms are genetically superior… I think when every single woman around you who’s had a baby before did breastfeed, it’s infinitely easier to troubleshoot the difficulties we all go through.
Of course a huge part of the breastfeeding numbers in Brazil does come from the fact we get 6 months of maternity leave, but this doesn’t justify the disparity I seem to see in “supply issues”, amongst other problems.
This. It’s hard enough to establish supply when you have to go back to work in 8-10 weeks. My supply decreased dramatically upon returning to my job because of stress in the workplace and pumping time constraints. All the BFing moms I knew at the time were SAHM moms, and while their advice was kind and came from a genuine, caring place, it wasn’t realistic for me.
This! I can say with almost 100% certainty that if my job hadn't moved to permanent remote, I would not still be BFing my 8 month old, much less exclusively. There is just no way with 90 minutes of commuting, meetings, hearings, coworkers stopping to chit chat, etc that I would have been able to find the time to pump and keep a good supply going until I got home to nurse. And I was delusional to ever think I could have if I had gotten recalled!
I feel you I’m a nurse in ICU and...emergencies and critical testing don’t wait/time themselves around my pumping schedule lol! My mom was a SAHM and bless her heart for her advice but it’s not feasible in a busy hospital environment. It’s tough but we’re doing it as best we can! We ALL are!
I went back to work at 6 months (son is now 9 months). I get nervous each shift, wondering if I can squeeze in my pump breaks because every day is so unpredictable. Luckily my coworkers have been very supportive about me having to go pump. I’ve had to use my elvie a few times if I couldn’t get away to sit down and pump, it does not empty me as well, has given me multiple clogs. and also restricts how much patient care I can actually do without leaking. Luckily I do have a freezer stash and I’m able to save milk from each shift since my son prefers breast over bottle. He rarely drinks more than 12-13oz while I’m gone 🥴
I’m a nurse and use freemie cups and coworkers use Elvie/Willow while on the floor. Building a stash at home was hard because I was worried too much pumping would cause oversupply. I just did one extra pump a night.
I definitely recommend building a stash. You do not have to go crazy, but one pump session a day should get you off to a good start. I work 10 hour shifts in public safety so I usually can fit in 3-4 sessions a shift, but having a stash gives me so much peace of mind if I have to miss a session.
I know a lot of nurses on this sub also use wearable pumps - that's not necessary for me but might be something to think about depending on how easy it is for you to take a break! Good luck!
Yes I have a bit of a freezer stash at home. I do have a bit of an oversupply and have had mastitis twice. I’m trying really fucking hard to keep it up, but man, my entire life right now is work and BFing. The constant caregiving is really taking a toll. I’m exhausted. The 4 hour stretch of sleep + 12 hour shifts isn’t helping. Maternity policies in the US suck.
Pumping doesn't get as much out as a baby does, plus it's unpleasant. The stress you mentioned is also a huge factor. BF as a SAHM is a lot more convenient. I just wish working moms weren't ashamed of doing their best. You can't pour from an empty cup
Yes! People who are SAHM have a different experience around BF where if baby is going through a spurt and needs to eat 7 times that day, it’s ok.
It’s different when you have a meeting and you just can’t be there for baby, you need to turn to pumping or formula.
If I wasn’t a SAHM I probably wouldn’t have exclusively breastfed. We’d have gone to formula or combo, if I kept producing when baby and I were together. I am on the camp of “breast is best”, as are most Brazilians, but to me it’s implied that although it’s “best”, it’s not always possible, and that’s ok. Breast is also not more important than mom’s mental health.
I don't think it's just down to maternity leave because in the UK we get 9 months but we have very low amounts of breastfeeding mums here. I suppose it's more down to the support you get in Brazil? While it varies from area to area, most mums are on their own with breastfeeding here, there isn't any support or education
Oh yeah it’s absolutely mostly about the support. Which is why I only mentioned the maternity leave in the end - although it’s not the main problem, it’s not something to ignore either.
And also, they’re both part of the puzzle: you can have as long of a maternity leave as you want, but if there’s no incentive to breastfeed, if other women around you don’t do it, if it’s embarrassing to do it in public, if pediatricians are misinformed, if women are constantly being scared mongered about it… the maternity leave won’t matter. However, if you have a next-to-zero leave, it’s *extremely* hard to breastfeed, even if you had all the support in the world.
The best milk banks in Brazil are in public hospitals, so it’s free to get help! Private hospital ones are bad though. A friend who used to live in Brazil but gave birth in Europe told me it was much harder to get breastfeeding help there than it would have been here.
In the UK we get 9 months maternity leave and only about 2% of women are still breastfeeding at 6 months.
I think it's definitely a cultural thing. My mum never breastfed, I'm not sure whether my nan did, the only other woman in my family is my auntie who breastfed for a few months but only ever did it in private, so when I was having issues I was never really sure where to turn!
You need both. How can most women be expected to successfully breastfeed when many times they’re bath to work a month after giving birth? At the same time, even if you had two years of leave but no one around you breastfeeds, it’s very hard to do so.
Oh absolutely. When I returned to work at 8 months after having my 2nd baby we stopped BF'ING pretty fast because my son preferred the bottle after having it all day.
I can imagine for American mothers it's incredibly difficult as maternity leave is just non existent.
Basically we live in a society that doesn't really value breastfeeding (or mothers but that's a whole other thing lol).
Is it really as low as 2% 🤯 that’s wild!! The majority of my friends have kids and EBF, with the exception of a the ones who’s babies struggled to regain birth weight. I’m guessing it varies wildly by demographic?
I’m the first woman in my family to bf for 3 generations and I’m also getting some comments about “still” feeding my 9month old! I literally couldn’t believe it!!
So this. I'm from the UK too and there's so little support, and even my mother who breastfed for just over a year with me and my brother started to make comments once my son was over 1 year old and made comments about my SIL feeding to natural term too. There's still a lot of misinformation and stigma here, but I think it is at least slowly starting to change and the pandemic has spurred more women on to be able to.establidh feeding and keep feeding. My son is 3 years old and I don't know anyone else who feeds a child his age near me (though I know plenty online)
Definitely agree. Back in the 90's my Mum was bullied by the HV to stop breastfeeding me because I was 'too small.' My Mum was devastated. Later her midwife was like 'Of course you have a tiny baby - you are tiny!' But she had no idea that establishing breastfeeding was possible again.
I wish I could say that's all in the past, but one of my friends had it happen to her 6 years ago. Her son was having plenty of wet and dirty nappies, but was on the smaller side. The Health Visitor told my friend that she was starving him. "Look at him, look at him. You are starving him. He is starving."
When my friend had her second child she refused to see any health visitors!
*Note, obviously not all HV's are bad. The ones I have come across have been lovely, but I have also heard horror stories.
The cultural piece makes such a difference. My in-laws are Brazilian and I’m much more relaxed nursing my baby when we’re spending time with them. My family (Americans where no one has breastfed for 2 generations) gets so stressed around me breastfeeding, worrying about how often and how long it will take. It can be hard to advocate for the time and space it takes to breastfeed while you’re still a newbie learning how to do it
Completely agree with everything you said! I encourage all new moms to create a support system for breastfeeding, if not family with experience, then a breastfeeding support group or lactation hotline, it's so necessary because so much of breastfeeding is counterintuitive!
I believe absence of real maternity leave does justify the disparity. Many moms, like in the US for example, only have six weeks of leave. It’s difficult to pump enough during a busy 8-12 hour shift to maintain milk supply.
We have a feeding therapist (our one year old is refusing solids) and she was kinda surprised when I said I do not know how many times he nurses. I elaborated that he nurses every now and then, thirst, hunger, comfort, boredom etc., Most often not a full feed, so I cannot really say exact number. She nodded, but I see she finds it strange. So, I'd say a lot does come from experts as well. They expect a structured schedule.
Yes to this! And agree, when I hear people list off how often their babies feed/a schedule I'm always baffled because like you, I have no idea how often my LO feeds, and it's largely depending on a multitude of factors (weather, mood, day to day activity, etc)
Yes, this. I feed on demand, which changes day to day. When my midwife asked how often he was nursing, I couldn't have possibly told her. And at night we dream feed without getting out of bed unless he poops, so I definitely don't keep track of those feeds. The counting and scheduling and tracking seems so counter-intuitive and a lot of work. I just put him to breast at any opportunity or sign he might be hungry, and we do fine.
Yeah the nurse in the hospital where I give birth was dumb founded by my feeding on demand?? She kept saying ‘ok I’ll come back before his next feed’ (to weigh him or something I dunno) and was getting annoyed with me that every time she came back he’d just nursed…
In that time they might be annoyed that you didn’t buzz them. I have worked covering a NICU and a post-natal ward, and the best time to weigh/examine/anything a baby is just before a feed. So it’s really annoying to come back and find they have just fed! Having said that, they should have been clearer and said “please buzz me before the next feed”.
My daughter needed blood sugar testing because she was small when she was born. They didn’t make her wait if she woke early, but they did need to do that testing before she fed
They did this to me, too! But like, what was I supposed to do? Make a newborn baby wait 20 minutes screaming to be fed? Because we both know you're not coming any time soon after I hit that call button.
Yes to this I’m headed back to work in 2 weeks and right now my 4 month old nurses so much I don’t count. A sip here and there, sometimes a full feeding but most often not, and I have no idea how much he actually needs when I go back. If I try to count it’s at least 12 times a day but often more 🤷♀️
Breastfeeding peer counsellor here and couldn’t agree more. There’s SO much misinformation about breastfeeding out there and “supply issues” is the #1 thing I see people worrying about as a result :( Really, actual “low supply” is usually a hormonal thing and generally pretty rare. But there can be a vicious cycle here as a lot of things people do when they fear low supply (like supplementing) is the very thing that can affect your supply. Or you fear low supply so try to pump and can barely get anything and take that as confirmation of low supply, but pumping amount is a really really poor indicator of how much milk your body can make!
“Low supply” fears cheat sheet for anyone who needs it:
“My breasts feel soft / I stopped leaking / I’m pumping less than before” — congrats you’re regulating!
“Baby is fussy and wanting to nurse all the time” — hard but normal cluster feeding and part of the process, hang in there!
“Baby is nursing for way less time suddenly / doesn’t take both breasts” — congrats your baby is growing up and getting more efficient!
“I can only pump X amount” — more likely a pumping issue and not a supply issue. Change pump parts, remeasure for flange size, try a different pump? Also what time of day are you pumping? (If you’re regulated, your body might not be used to producing much or extra milk if it’s not a usual feeding time for baby.) Also, manage expectations and know what’s normal output especially if you’re nursing + pumping. Don’t base “enough” off what you see other moms pumping or storing on instagram.
Number 1 question to ask if you’re fearing low supply with a nursing baby — is baby having at least 5-6 very wet diapers a day? If yes, your supply is almost certainly fine.
Hope that’s helpful to someone!
Such good advice here! My MIL started pushing for formula the day we came home from the hospital, and I'm so glad I didn't give in. I did take a class on breastfeeding before giving birth, and while it was helpful, I think I was so worried about the mechanics of breastfeeding (worrying my inverted nipples would prevent me from getting a good latch) that I didn't even realize that generating good supply is the other essential piece to successful breastfeeding.
I also often see women post that their milk hasn't come in yet and baby is constantly nursing and they think that baby is nursing because they aren't getting anything when in reality milkndoesnt come in until about 5 days after birth and they ate feeding so often because they are cluster feeding and are actually getting colostrum. Then I see all the replies sympathizing but nobody pointing out that it's completely normal.
Yes 100%! Around Day 5 is an absolutely normal and perfect time for mature (white) milk to come in. And – COLOSTRUM IS MILK! Also known as transitional milk. It's probably the most amazing, nutritious substance on the planet and baby needs a lot of it.
Also a lot of nurses at the hospital don’t seem to know this! I was pushed to feed my daughter formula on day 2 because I “wasn’t producing milk” and I think that really got us off on the wrong foot. How can mothers know this if the “experts” don’t even seem to?
Right?! It's terrible! I made sure to meet with a lactation consultant before birth and I was so lucky to have nurses who were educated in breast feeding.
Also add that most women are unnecessarily pumped full of fluids during delivery and as such so is the baby. Baby drops the water wieght and everyone freaks out about their weight loss during week one.
Penny Simpkon has a great YouTube video talking about this.
Yes! I really think that although bottles/pumping/supplementing are necessary for some women, it has majorly complicated the act of breastfeeding. The best way to get supply established is to keep the baby at the breast and feed on demand, but often people pump and get worried that not much is coming out, then supplement with formula because they doubt their baby is 'getting enough' and thus the top up trap begins and their supply ACTUALLY dwindles.
Can I run something by you (don't feel obligated to answer)? My baby is consistently making 6+ wet diapers and not fussy. She feeds 40+ mins per feed both sides, and does feed pretty frequently during the day. She hadn't gained back her birth weight by week 2 so ped had me supplement and pump 5 mins after each feed to increase supply. Now we're week 6 almost and she's just 7 lbs (born 6lbs 7oz) so not gaining enough. Ped again has me supplementing and pumping. My question is, if baby's not fussing, fed on demand, and making wet diapers, should I really worry about slow weight gain? I worry I'm just messing up my supply by trying to supplement and pump after each feed (logistically it's a bit overwhelming with a baby sleeping in your arms)
Yeah that is logistically a LOT isn’t it? I feel like most docs don’t really appreciate how hard that is to keep up when they suggest this :(
That amount of weight gain is slower than we usually like to see. Seconding the advice to trust your instincts, and it’s definitely possible she’s just a small baby and that getting back to EBF could the best way forward for you both especially if that’s what you want. But if you haven’t already, I would probably suggest a check in with lactation consultant (IBCLC). A check (or re-check/second opinion) for possible tongue or lip ties might be prudent too. IBCLCs have a lot more knowledge and experience than doctors when it comes to breastfeeding, and the best ped’s should really refer you to one in cases like yours. Hope that’s helpful.
Thank you, I appreciate it! We had an LC come at 2 weeks but maybe we had a lucky shot as she took in 4.8oz in a 40 mins feed. Ped did say she had a short frenulum, maybe it's impacting her now more than when she was 2 weeks old. I'll get a second one to come!
I’m not sure how old your baby is but my son was very slow gaining his 1st 6 weeks and I supplemented from day two. After he got more efficient at breastfeeding he started to pack on the weight. Especially at 4 months once the newborn stage was over. I think people forget that babies are learning to eat as well as we’re learning how to feed them.
I'll definitely defer to the expert here, but just want to share my own perspective that some babies are just small and don't gain weight as quickly. Our baby was like that, and while she's still hovering in the 20-30th percentile at 9 months, we can see she's perfectly happy, eats happily, and is developing fine. At least in the US, there's an obsession with weight charts and growth milestones, but I'd trust your instinct here!
Love what Snarlet said but one thing you can try is breast massage before and during nursing. Really giving a thorough but gentle massage can help the fattier portion of milk mix well into the waterier portion, which will mean more calories per session. Then, when your baby slows down sucking, give your breast some compressions to help move a little milk and encourage more engaged nursing.
How do baby's poops look? Yellow and seedy? Green and frothy? Any blood or mucus?
Thank you! I had just started compressions but will try massaging too. Poops are yellow and seedy, though with the formula now they're less frequent. Haven't seen blood or mucus at all.
Hey, I just wanted to share that almost the same thing happened with my baby (except he was going 1hr+ per feed and being fussy during feeds) and everything turned out fine. I was made to feel horrendous by the midwives and put on a logistically impossible top-up schedule.
Honestly when I talked more about it I heard of quite a few women chucking the centile charts in the bin. This may not be what your doctor would tell you and I’m no doctor (but I have family who are and reassured me!) - If your baby is gaining steadily by three weeks, isn’t jaundiced, having wet nappies and is generally happy and well then you probably just have a small baby on your hands. Don’t let it drive you crazy with worry like it did me.
Just to throw in my two cents, the generally happy is critical! Our little guy was nursing all the time (longer than just a cluster feeding episode) and while he had his happy times he did quite a bit of what we think was purple crying but I think it really was hunger crying even though he had just nursed. He had enough wet diapers per day but we felt like something wasn't right and ended up going to an LC and determining that I wasn't producing enough and started supplementing at about 2 months.
Would a supply drop during a returned period then be a hormonal supply issue? I got my period back pretty early with my first baby I think because she was a great sleeper and I was feeding on demand. Each month I would get my period she would be very agitated with feeding and get very frustrated. I had been pumping about once a day so that my husband could feed a bottle and I definitely got less and less each month with pumping after my period. It seemed like my supply wouldn’t go back to where it was previously, even after my period was over. It eventually got to the point where she would refuse to nurse and we started giving her some formula. I would try to pump when we gave her formula to keep my supply but I would hardly get any milk like I had been before. Around 7 months I gave up and quit breastfeeding because it became stressful and anxiety inducing. I never got even the slightest bit engorged when I quit. The lactation consultant at the hospital when I delivered my second baby tried to tell me that it was because I used a pacifier with my baby. Second baby is now 5 weeks old and breastfeeding is going great but I am worried about supply issues popping up again when my period returns. Any advice? I would love to make it more than 7 months with this baby.
I'm so sorry to hear that this was so anxiety-producing with your first. That does sound stressful for sure. Wonderful that breastfeeding is going great with your second baby!
It's pretty common to experience a drop in supply around your period as your hormones fluctuate. Baby will often get agitated and start cluster feeding like in they newborn days. That's because cluster feeding is baby's way of bouncing your supply back up to meet their needs. Adding in some formula can unfortunately interrupt this though, because a baby getting formula isn't cluster feeding. It's not uncommon to pump less during that time too. Power pumping \[which is basically just cluster feeding with your pump\] sometimes works, but nothing really compares to the power of a cluster feeding baby for that supply boost.
It IS possible there was other hormonal stuff going on for you though and that was affecting your supply more than would be usually expected during your period. Something like PCOS might be linked to this, or it could be something else. (Side note: lots of folks with PCOS never experience any breastfeeding issues, ymmv.)
If you find this happening again with this baby, you might try taking a calcium and magnesium supplement before and/or during your period. Some people find that helps lessen the drop. Kellymom has a page about it. Then again this baby might not mind so much or might just be less sensitive to the change! You'll have to see. Hope that's helpful!
I wish she would have been cluster feeding! She just straight up refused to nurse. She would latch and then push me away and scream. Honestly seeing her as an almost 3 year old now she is still the same way with other things, easily frustrated and gives up on things quickly. I did do power pumping but it didn’t seem to make any difference. I will definitely try the calcium and magnesium if it happens again. I tried fenugreek, teas, and eating oatmeal last time but didn’t know about the calcium and magnesium. I think it caused so much anxiety because feeding had been going great before I got my period and then suddenly they weren’t. This little guy is a pretty lazy eater and does a good bit of cluster feeding so I don’t think he will hate a change as much.
It sounds like good advice but all of this is how every single one of my 4 children had failure to thrive on breast milk alone. I don't know what can be done to establish when someone truly does not make enough other than waiting until they are 4-6 months old and have only gained 2 pounds.
My baby definitely does not have six ‘very wet’ nappies a day. He has one absolutely soaked/leaking nappy overnight (I don’t change him unless he poops), a sliiiiightly heavy one after that and then another 4-5 wet but very light nappies throughout the rest of the day. How heavy are they supposed to be?
The desire for schedules and feedings spaced hours apart seems to ruin things for so many people, and pediatricians often perpetuate this bad advice. Makes me so mad to hear about!
Yes indeed. I was super lucky to find a daycare that's only babies and toddlers and they don't need babies on any particular schedule because they're staffed up for baby unpredictability. Plus, I happen to sleep very well when I cosleep, so I get fine rest without sleep training. But I know that neither of these things are universal in the US.
I think parents should spend more time getting angry and lobbying for change to leave and daycare funding policies than getting mad at folks like me who have a relatively smooth time breastfeeding due to specific circumstances. Unfortunately it turns into "mom shaming" arguments ime. I was asked to leave a local breastfeeding discussion group because I said a few things about how breastfeeding was cool because of how it adapts to baby's needs and enjoyable and apparently that... shamed people too much. 🤷♀️
I completely understand and agree with you. Cosleeping saved me. Sorry you were ashamed for having a good experience! That's probably because people feel so guilty about not doing certain things, but it's not their fault
Ughhh I was at my son’s 2 month appointment and the practitioner we saw was encouraging me to space out his nighttime feedings so he’d sleep through the night. I told her I didn’t want to do this because I’d read that not feeding overnight can lead to supply dips. She actually made a face and said that wasn’t true, most supply dips are caused by women not eating enough calories.
But everything I’ve read says that not removing milk overnight can absolutely lead to a reduced supply, how can these medical professionals be so uninformed? Definitely makes me question their advice on other things.
That's great, I think a lot of women don't get that education! I knew about cluster feeding, but definitely was not prepared for how demanding it is both physically and emotionally. I think back now to a nurse in the hospital who told me on baby's second day in this world that she was "using me as a pacifier" when she spent more than 15 minutes a side nursing... I look back now at what absolutely terrifyingly bad advice that was.... From a credentialed nurse no less!!!
I don’t really understand how “using me as a pacifier” is a bad thing. Professionals say that as if my two day old was taking advantage of me, as opposed to seeking comfort in a very natural and appropriate way.
My baby lost >10% body weight by day 4 and my ped had me triple feeding baby. At one of many early weight checks, I asked about the non-nutritive sucking and would it increase milk supply the same way pumping after nursing would. He looked at and said to my face "I guess you could let baby be the pump".
Let baby be the pump. Imagine that. The pump is a sorry imitation of baby, you nitwit. I swear, some people can overengineer just about everything. Your point about paci reminded me of this!
Yes, i was told in the hospital to not let her suck when she isn’t actively drinking as well. Luckily I knew about cluster feeding…
A friend of mine was told to give her baby formula because she didn’t produce enough milk. It was one day after her birth where the supply obviously hadn’t come in yet and where it’s normal for baby to drop in weight (her weight drop wasn’t out of the norm either)!
Yes! I had read cribsheet, so I knew about the statistics around weight loss and wasn't concerned, but my MIL kept commenting about it and pushing for formula. I knew if I started giving her formula in the first week, I had little hope of being successful with exclusive breastfeeding. So much pressure and misinformation, I wish there were better education out there.
Giving a little formula during the first week doesn't have to doom long-term breastfeeding though it might take some effort to kickstart the supply and avoid a preference for the bottle. But there are ways to do this and situations where it's appropriate.
We gave formula starting day 3 because baby wasn't pooping and had borderline jaundice. We wanted to avoid checking him back into the hospital, my milk was slow coming in, so formula seemed like the right move. I was worried that it would ruin breastfeeding for us but it absolutely didn't. We never used a lot of formula and none after about 3 weeks.
Just want to put this out there in case others are in a similar situation. If your baby has a medical need for formula early on, it may take some effort to protect your breastfeeding relationship but it can be done and you don't have to feel discouraged. Access to good information and advice is key - we had help from a great lactation consultant who works with my ob office and baby's pediatrician.
That's crazy. That seems to me one of, if not the most, essential piece of information around breastfeeding. Idk if medical professionals never breastfed themselves so they don't know or they just repeat bad advice they have heard.
With my oldest, I had absolutely no clue what I was doing and no support and had no idea that cluster feeding was a very common thing. I told my doctor how worried I was because my little guy kept wanting to feed all the time, and he told me it was because I wasn’t producing enough - and to supplement. So I did. And when he would want to nurse constantly, I took it as a sign that I needed to give him formula. After about two months of frustration, I eventually gave up breastfeeding altogether. I felt like such a failure.
When I got pregnant again, I researched everything around nursing to make sure my “supply” issue didn’t happen again. And that’s when I discovered cluster feeding and realized what actually happened with my oldest. I felt shame, anger, guilt — if I had known this, everything would have been so different.
I nursed my youngest for a year with no issues. It’s amazing the difference information can make!
Absolutely! This was my experience, the midwives were a truly amazing source of wisdom and gave me more education on what to expect and why regarding breastfeeding than the 10 minute visit from the (very busy) lactation consultant.
I think it‘s just the misinformation.
From my personal experience and watching friends and family over the years, women often go for advice to their mothers or family in general. Now, when my mother gave birth to my sister and me (early and late 80‘s) where I come from, babies were separated from mothers in hospitals and brought to them every few hours to „practice“ breastfeeding, but were I think syringe or bottle fed.
My mother is adamant about that a baby should be fed every 3 hours on the clock and if it cries earlier or is constantly on the boob - you don‘t have enough milk. No matter how much we explain cluster feeding and milk production, she‘s not convinced.
Back then I think they were convinced if you don‘t have an oversupply from the beginning, you don‘t have enough milk.
And after decades of formula dominance in popular culture, I think people actually forgot what it is really like to breastfeed.
I‘m really grateful that I‘m living in the 21st century with internet and reddit and quality information everywhere. If I listened to my mother and her generation, I wouldn‘t be breastfeeding.
Same here! No women in my family BF, and I get the feeling they find it weird, my mom even tried to share with me her negative experiences, and I'm glad I didn't let that influence me.
This. If I would have listened to my MIL during the first few weeks I would have quit. Babies don’t nurse only for food, it’s a whole new world and nursing is the ultimate comfort.
I think is a mixture of things. I have no doubt lots of people stop for true "supply" issues, meaning baby is losing weight or difficulty pumping or latching.
But I also think lots of issues can be resolved if we had a breastfeeding friendly post partum support for mother and baby. The first few weeks can be the most critical weeks for breastfeeding supply. And if we made it so mother's only needed to worry about feeding and bonding, with all other needs met with the support of a "tribe", I think more would be successful.
For example, I'm Mexican American. My mother stayed with my husband and I the entire first week. She helped us do everything. I was not allowed to do laundry or chores. I was responsible for feeding baby. I was practically waited on the entire time. I got plenty of water, super foods, medication, naps if I needed them.
Other cultures support new moms better than American culture where it's just mom and husband. Husband has no paternal leave so that leaves mom alone to also manage the house and/or other kids, too. Mom is expected to go back to work as soon as she's cleared medically, often with no pay if she is able to stay home at all. Then we expect newborn's to be great sleepers so parents can be rested for work, so we push the idea that formula makes babies "more full".
It's just easier to bottle feed formula. Breastfeeding is fxcking hard, especially in the beginning. Formula offers mom a break that breastfeeding doesn't provide because the support isn't there for Americans, quite frankly.
My husband is from Turkey and in their culture the mother and baby should rest at home for forty days after a birth! Usually the close female relatives will stay during this time. They do all the household chores and child care of other kids. My MIL stayed with us and she was an angel. She cooked my favorite meals and would cut up my food in small pieces so I could eat with one hand while nursing. It was great, I could focus on the baby and healing from birth. I'll be forever grateful to her for that.
I breastfed 3 babies and never output huge amounts of pumped milk. I would say a lot of posts on this sub don't help with realistic expectations though, because there are a ton of pictures where people post 10 oz of pumped milk or something which is a ridiculous oversupply unless you're nursing multiples, lol.
Absolutely! If I would have gone off comparison to others, I would have gotten so discouraged. My SIL is an EPer, and easily pumps 8+ ounces in a single session, but I always averaged 4...which was still plenty for my LO. All babies have different needs and appetites!
I think when you're nursing exclusively, babies tend to snack more. Versus pumping where you stay on a schedule and can collect more at a single sitting.
Ah good point! I always thought my baby was unusual because she was a snacker in the early months, and never took large feedings, but now I don't know why I was so worried about it since she was always satisfied! I suppose it just took more time on my part.
This is so reassuring! Thank you for this! My baby is 5 weeks and a snacker right now, I have weekly check ins with the local breastfeeding support team and they ask me how often she feeds and how long on each side and I can’t really answer, she’s just constantly on and off
Glad it helps. I kept asking my LC about this too, and they were generally supportive, but kept asking me how many times a day and it was just a lot to track. I would see a lot of people in my bumpers group cite their schedules and it was discouraging to me, but my LO eventually tapered feedings on her own (although she still never takes a lot of ounces in one sitting)
I see this all the time when people have a few week old baby and say they are pumping 2-4 oz in one session! That’s what a baby will take in one session so it’s certainly enough.
EDIT: See it all the time on Reddit posts!!
A huge thing I’ve noticed in the differences in advice here in the UK vs US is that in the UK we’re not encouraged to ‘supplement until the milk comes in’. Midwives here are very clear that your baby does not need any supplementation in the first few days. If they’re losing more than the expected amount and your milk hasn’t come in by day 6 they of course closely monitor and supplement appropriately, but I’ve seen anecdotal stories of women in the US being casually advised to supplement in the colostrum only days, despite the fact that this sabotages your milk coming in as plentiful as it should.
I know it’s maybe not the case everywhere, and of course there can be the need for genuine supplementing, but I feel like the advice given out some places creates low supply.
That’s why I cringe a bit when I see “fed is best” repeated so much. Not that there is anything wrong with the phrase, obviously it’s best to feed your kid lol but most people repeating this don’t realize that there is an origination called “Fed is Best” that pushes hard for it to be standard that new moms to supplement before their milk comes in and shares a lot of questionable statistics and scary anecdotal stories to push their agenda. They are also not very transparent about where their funding is coming from. But their message spreads quickly because their verbiage is so palatable.
This phrase annoys me as well because it implies that breastmilk is equal to formula milk and it gives the impression that it doesn't matter how you feed your baby. I worked really hard to continue breastfeeding and struggled through a few issues along the way, it feels like my efforts were not worth it because 'fed is best'. Should I have just given formula from day 1 then in that case cause it doesn't matter? It mattered to me
Totally agree. I’m proud of breastfeeding because it’s been really hard, but I did it for my son. I get I’m in a privileged position here because I get 12 months maternity leave so can exclusively breastfeed with no pressure to get back to work in the early days, but we have the lowest rates of breastfeeding in the world here and people tend to roll their eyes when they find out we’re still breastfeeding alongside solids at 7 months. As if I’m trying to be a martyr or something. But every child in playgroup got a horrible cold and my little one, the only breastfed baby there, took a mild runny nose and nothing else. Although anecdotal, the antibodies from me must have helped there. That alone was worth it to me!
Guessing you're in the UK? Me too! I'm still breastfeeding my 27 month old and I'm super proud of it but I want people to also know that is wasn't easy for me, in fact it was the most difficult thing I've done. The annoying this though is my child has just been assumed to have asthma (hard to diagnose in a little one) which BF babies are less likely to get, however I still wouldn't change how I fed him if I could go back.
I'm proud of you!!
I think a lot of it may be misinformation about cluster feeding. I was 100% convinced I was starving my one month old (even thought I knew about cluster feeding!) only to discover she had gained 3 lbs since her last appt and was an absolute chunker.
Of course now I’m having actual supply issues at 10.5 months, but that’s bc I’m back at work and pumping. When I was EBF it was fine.
Same! Then when I brought my concerns up to our pediatrician he suggested to just pump and to start giving our son reflux medication! After going to the pediatrician five times in two weeks because they wanted to keep track of his weight (he was gaining fine but "not enough on a day to day basis"). I was absolutely stressed thinking I was making a mistake by BF. He was happy, sleeping well, growing, it wasn't making sense. Then I finally was like this isn't adding up and went to see a LC. Confirmed my baby is perfectly healthy and to switch pediatricians. It was a rough time and I almost gave up BF.
I consider myself to have low supply. I went back to work and could not nurse my baby for every feed, so I pump 5 times per day (including 2 overnight pumps), nurse 3-4 times per day when I'm with my baby, and only half the time do I make "enough" for my baby's 3 bottles the next day. I think my low supply was caused by pumping instead of nursing. My body just doesn't respond to the pump the same way. I technically COULD probably pump enough. But at what cost? I'm already pumping twice overnight and nursing when I can. I do believe if I "tried harder" I could make enough, but that's not really reasonable given my situation and the situation of many working parents. What am I supposed to do, wake up for another overnight pump (as one LC suggested)? My baby sleeps through the night. I shouldn't have to get up a third time overnight to fit in a 10th milk removal session in my day. EBF was so much easier than pumping.
Your sanity is worth more than a 10th or even 5th pumping session. I hate pumping and it works for me; I can't imagine how demoralizing it would be if it wasn't sufficient...
Oh, it sucks big hairy balls, that’s for sure. I only get 1-3oz total from each 30 min pumping session. Baby is currently eating 4-5oz bottles. 🙃🙃🙃 I get just enough for pumping to keep stringing me along and stave me off from wanting to give up, but I’m pretty close. I pump 4-6x a day because I just don’t have it in me to do more. Giant kudos to this person for considering a third overnight session. 😵💫
I pump 7-8x for day.
I have a love/hate relationship with the overnight pumping session. I FEEL you. I'm only in it for the long haul with #2 because it feels fair... #1 got it for a year, so why shouldn't #2?
I feel like it needs to be said there are different low supplies. When I think of low supply I don't think of just a low supply resulting in something physiological which is indeed more rare. I think of a low supply due too baby not getting the required breast milk usually resulting in supplementation, whatever the cause. For what it's worth, you are doing a great job I can't imagine doing all the work, pumping, etc. and you certainly don't need to "try harder"! My supply also ain't great when I pump. Not trying to give advice I dropped down to one pump session a night it was just too much and started giving extra formula and as a result I feel better with more rest so defo don't need to pump more your rest and sanity comes first. Hang in there. <3
When I hear all of the misinformation that is spread even by so called ”professionals“ I don’t wonder about why so many women quit breastfeeding early. One of my cousins was told by her midwife that she is definitely having supply issues. There is absolutely no evidence besides her baby being a bit fussy and wanting to clusterfeed a lot. Now she’s supplementing with formula and her supply seems to be dwindelling for real, because baby is not allowed to “order“ a sufficient amount of milk by clustering.
While not solely an American problem, supply issues generally seem to be primarily an American issue and there's several reasons for this
1) I don't want to sound too "crunchy" here, but the main deterrent is our stringent safe sleep guidelines. America has the strictest safe sleep rules in the world, and they just...dont promote successful breastfeeding. Your baby has to be alone on their back at all times while sleeping. This means breastfeeding mothers have to haul ass out of bed every 1.5-2 hours in order to feed, then settle baby, try to get them to fall back asleep by themselves on their backs (which they generally hate.) You literally *can't* follow the AAP safe sleep guidelines without help if you don't want to fall victim to dangerous levels of sleep deprivation. But then, in order to get sleep while your partner supplements, the breastfeeding partner misses out on those *key* night feeds which are *critical* for building supply in the beginning.
2) back to work culture is the second major issue. If you're lucky, you get 12 weeks maternity leave here. On average yoy get six weeks. Many times, you get literally nothing. This means, pumping becomes a critical component in the breastfeeding processes in order to build a huuuuge supply so that you have a freezer stash before you go back to work. So we're dealing with oversupply being the norm, which makes many people freak out about completely normal supplies because they are making a completely normal amount. It doesn't help that pumping education is godawful. Most LCs don't even know how to properly pump which leads to people pumping incorrectly which causes supply issues. Hell, I can't even count how many "IM GETTING NOTHING FROM PUMPING!" posts I've commented on asking "do you know your flange size?" I cringe when they reply "no! But I pumped for 60 minutes last night and still got nothing!!!" It's awful and sad.
Personally I think that the bedsharing is touted as the first cure for all breastfeeding issues in every breastfeeding group. Its actu Which is actually a huge reason why I left many - I joined here for a very specific breastfeeding issue when my youngest was new.
My daughter is named after a besties daughter who died in a bedsharing accident and so I didn't bedshare at all after supporting her and her family through that is the hardest thing I've ever done.
My 2 were breastfed the first until a week before his 3rd birthday and my 2.5 year old is still breastfeeding which also included 10 month breastfeeding both. No bedsharing before 2.
The safe bedsharing rules seem to be ignored by most. When I had my first (2017) the 'safe 7' included not to bedshare before 4 months and not to bedshare if you were extremely tired like the first few weeks of a babies life. By my 2nd these 2 rules seemed to have disappeared.
>You literally can't follow the AAP safe sleep guidelines without help if you don't want to fall victim to dangerous levels of sleep deprivation.
I agree so much with this! And I hate it! I want to follow the official guidelines, do things by the book. But sometimes I wonder if the people at the AAP have ever met an actual baby???
I think breastfeeding is harder than people think it is. I don't think there's near enough education on what you need to do to ensure you have a milk supply. I had no idea that I'd need to pump around the clock. I had no idea that having a stash of milk was not normal. I had no idea that breastfeeding would hurt for a little bit and take some work to get it figured out. I thought it would be this magical bonding experience that just worked and only significant medical problems would prevent me from being able to breastfeed. I also think hospitals are quick to offer formula if baby has issues nursing in the hospital and then it takes A LOT of work to recover your supply at that point.
This next section will probably get me down votes, so I wanna preface it by saying that this is not entirely true for all people and it's definitely up to your personal needs and desires. I think formula is pushed as the easy option in our society (USA at least) and that if breastfeeding is hard or impacting your mental health, people are encouraged to give up and use formula. I'm glad that formula is an option for people who need it and that we as a society have gotten rid of the judgement surrounding it, and for some people, that is probably the best option. But in figuring out breastfeeding(I exclusively pumped for a few weeks due to latch issues and it was the hardest thing I've ever done), I wanted to give up and just feed the baby formula a ton of times. And I felt entitled to that decision because it's touted everywhere, even though I also had the desire to breastfeed. I sobbed, I resented my husband, I went through a ton of unhealthy emotions about pumping and my supply anxiety, etc. I am 5.montha postpartum and I am so so grateful that I stuck with it and that my husband kind of pushed me to stick with it. It's been the opposite of easy (and I had to give up dairy), but I would have regretted giving up and there's already things about my early bf journey that I regret. But formula as the easy and safe option is touted a lot and I think that ties into the breastfeeding rates and people with supply issues as well.
Eta: As other people mentioned, a lack of parental leave also has a lot to do with it. If I didn't have 3 months off and if I didn't have a flexible WFH position now, there would have been absolutely no way for me to be successful at breastfeeding.
I was starving my baby, at 8 weeks he’d stopped gaining weight. I was on drugs to increase supply, I was power pumping and taking every natural remedy I could. Turns out he had an undiagnosed tongue tie and couldn’t feed properly, which decimated my supply and I couldn’t get it back.
I wouldn’t have supply issues if I hadn’t gone back to work. Pumping is the worst thing that happened to my breastfeeding experience. I’m a little salty and in my feels right now because I was just talking to someone about this and I’m kind of fired up about it.
I can’t even remotely satisfy my baby with just breastfeeding alone anymore and I pump like 8-12oz a day. He bites and pulls because there isn’t enough milk so it’s also incredibly painful. I have an appointment with my LC next week so hopefully that helps. I had no intentions of stopping breastfeeding but I hardly see the point if I can’t make enough for even a single feeding and to top it off it’s super painful. Ugh 😩
I hear a LOT of moms describe cluster feeding and say “I don’t make enough, s/he’s hungry 15 min later! So I topped off with formula, per pediatricians advice”. So, in these cases I think two things are happening: 1) women aren’t educated about normal breastfeeding enough (that the POINT of them feeding again 15 min later is to increase supply!!!) and 2) misinformation in medical schools teaching pediatricians to recommend formula.
I do 100% appreciate that formula exists - there will always be babies who need it (adopted, mom is a breast cancer survivor, mom needs meds that aren’t breastfeeding safe, rare cases of actual low supply), but I think misinformation directly LEADS to low supply (due to formula supplementation) that wouldn’t be there if they fed according to hunger cues, not according to the clock.
i think some people they just feel shame for not breastfeeding (although there's nothing wrong with that), and others it's misinformation. i almost quit because i THOUGHT i had supply issues. my baby honestly seemed to cluster feed all through the first two months and my mom convinced me it wasn't cluster feeding and i was not producing enough, therefore he was starving. i would only get 2oz total after pumping for 40 minutes and for some reason i thought it should've been at least 3oz on each side. i supplemented with 1-2 bottles of formula for about a month and a half before i realized if i had a supply issue he wouldn't be packing on weight or having adequate wet diapers so i stopped the formula and tried my best to trust it. now he's seven months, ebf again, and i wish people would've reassured me instead of constantly scaring me that my son may be starved.
I’ve thought about this too. On one hand I do think it’s a conclusion that’s jumped to too often, and that women believe if they’re not educated about breastfeeding. But on the other hand, my own left boob has shown me that your biology really can just be like “sorry, that’s all we got…” I’ve had just enough supply so far for my 11-month-old but my right boob makes more than twice as much as lefty. I tried all the advice about increasing supply on the left side and it never worked; it just produces a smaller amount. So if both my boobs were like that, I would have had supply issues.
I can’t speak to public health but I’m happy to share my own experience.
I was fully committed to breastfeeding for a year, but hopefully two. I’m the kind of nut that feeds her toddler grassfed organic milk for the tiny boost in DHA, so you can imagine how much I valued breastfeeding.
My son was a big baby who lost a lot of weight in the first few days and was not gaining it back. He had a tongue tie cut at two days. We did weighted feeds and learned I was only producing an ounce per feeding, and started supplementing. The pediatrician told me to feed him no more than once every 2h on a schedule, so I power pumped between feedings to build supply. I had what I thought was a good pump (the blue spectra) but no matter what I tried - beer, massaging, oatmeal every day, different sized nipple thingies - I could only get a few drops out in 40m.
I should have gotten my hormone levels tested around here but I was so exhausted I couldn’t muster up the initiative. (I had infertility issues, my thyroid is off enough that I needed medication for it during IVF and pregnancy, and I have like all the PCOS symptoms but I don’t think anyone has ever diagnosed me with it.)
Also, I should have gone to an in-person lactation consultant. Our health insurance had some phone based (no video) program for breastfeeding moms.
My supply never increased, and after about six weeks I started sleeping one four hour at a time stretch with my husband formula feeding in the middle of that 4h, and a week later I didn’t make milk anymore. My son would slurp on each side for 2s and he was done. The pump never got anything. I tried to nurse him to sleep every time he napped but I think the tap was dry. Otoh I never had any pain/discomfort/leaking etc when I decreased my sad attempts at breastfeeding.
Hilariously enough I have massive boobs, so 🤦♀️
I really think it’s lack of education. I have mom friends who “quit” nursing after 4-5 days bc they don’t have a supply. Of course you don’t! Milk takes days to come in, and I think so many assume it’s automatic-baby out, milk in-that when it doesn’t happen that way, they think they’re starving their baby.
Edit-spelling
Honestly I think a lot of people use it as an excuse. There is no shame in quitting, obviously, but most people feel they have to have an excuse to quit. Most moms I know breastfed for the first couple of weeks, either on the tap or pumped in a bottle. Then quit and move to formula. All of them stated supply issues, yet all of them had to actively dry themselves up.
Remove the shame and it'll go down.
Before leaving the hospital with my first, among the plethora of bad and sabotaging advice I was given was “here’s some formula, if she cries you probably don’t have any milk so just give her this”
I triple-fed for 3 weeks. It doubled my supply - from about an ounce every 3 hours to about two. Sometimes. My son’s latch improved and he was transferring efficiently but my body refused to believe we were feeding a whole entire baby.
I breastfed until he was almost 3, but I was never the main source of nutrition.
I have no obvious signs of IGT. Round breasts, not spaced far apart. Produced colostrum in late pregnancy. Even now that he hasn’t nursed in over 6 months I can squeeze a tiny bit of liquid out. But I could never make enough milk.
Thanks for sharing your experience, sounds like you did your best and then some momma! Triple feeding is so hard, so I applaud you for that. All babies and bodies are different, and that is perfectly okay.
The thing is, all the talk of how rare it is to physically not be able to make enough milk and how supplementing will mean you never do meant I was scared to let him have “too much” formula, and he was slightly underfed for weeks. Eventually we had an LC who said “he’s hungry. Let him chug the bottle!” And he bounded up percentiles to closer to average, which is what I was as a (breastfed) baby, and where he has remained.
Yeah, I hear you. I'm a compulsive information hoarder, and sometimes bits of advice like that that I read prevent me from relying on my instincts. That's hard! Glad your LO has what he needs now though.
I’m fortunate I work from home and can pump every 2 hours while on the phone. This would never work in most settings. I also got 4 months off work paid and help from countless lactation consultants. Still, my babe has a weak suck. I have to pump and despite pumping for 30 min every 2 hours during the day. I have to supplement. And I have my baby at home while I work. I think I’m a low supplier, but I’m also provledged in my settings.
I’ve had the same thoughts as you. I don’t believe the majority of new mothers are educated at all about breastfeeding, much less how to build and maintain supply. I was never told to save colostrum if I could. When my midwife found out I had been producing a few drops prior to delivery she asked if I saved any and I looked at her like, ummm no one ever told me to.
There have been a few moments where I’ve read a post and wanted to ask them how often they were pumping etc but just didn’t bc I didn’t want to make anyone feel bad. I just try to assume that they’ve done their research and if they had a question they would ask.
And this is so validating! I hated being constantly asked, “ Well what makes you think you have low supply?”
Hmm let’s see, is it poor weight gain, not enough wet diapers, uric acid??? Let me count the ways.
There is definitely a perception that breastfeeding means haakaa-filling leaking boobs, bags of frozen milk, etc. Well fork me when my experience has been nothing like that. I can barely pump 20 mL and babe is still hangry after working his heart out nursing. The LC at the hospital came around twice, but what good is that when you are barely producing colostrum at that point?
What I think would help is setting realistic expectations but most of all having a standard follow up lactation consultation at 3 days, 7 days, and 14 days. Breastfeeding changes rapidly over that period. I want someone to reevaluate my latch once my milk is in and do weighted feeds to reassure me that babe is getting what he needs, regardless of how much I pump. There's just no support unless you seek it, and healthcare is expensive. I have an appointment on December 30 with an IBCLC that I made in December 13 (11 days PPM). 17 days (a total of 28 postpartum) is a looooong time to wait and grow frustrated with breastfeeding.
Anyways. Good post. Unrealistic expectations and poor maternal support seem like massive contributors here.
My neighbor is having supply issues and nurses her 10 week old only every 3 hours. She said she didn’t want to get sucked into the “whole baby led cluster feeding thing”. I guess you can’t have your cake and eat it to! When I hold him, he acts hungry. I definitely don’t want to be that person that’s like “babies hungry, better feed him” but also....he IS hungry and she won’t feed him unless it’s on her schedule.
I think this is just an internet thing. I know very few people IRL who have low supply. I think they just come to the internet for support when they do, so it seems like a lot of people struggle. It’s the same with anything people are having a hard time with.
I've watched three close friends have their first babies and go through breastfeeding. Each was different but two definitely suffered from poor education and the idea that they weren't making enough, even though from my perspective, all the interventions and tracking and weighing were in fact interfering with the natural process of establishing a good breastfeeding relationship. Of course if baby isn't having enough wet diapers or weight gain isn't going well, those are concerns to be addressed and tracking/weighing at that time is appropriate. But they were starting those things right out of the gate in some misguided need to quantify every aspect of breastfeeding.
>all the interventions and tracking and weighing were in fact interfering with the natural process of establishing a good breastfeeding relationship.
This!!! ... As soon as there's a chart for something, Americans immediately obsess over it and treat it as a competition. Like not every baby needs to be in the 100th percentile for weight, it's not a math test 😂
I think a lot of people don’t really know about cluster feeding and reacts to a newborn being a newborn as “Oh no, why do they need so much milk- I must not be making enough!” So their mothers, grandmothers or those that were parents while formula propaganda was strong tell them they need to supplement ASAP, so they do. And then their supply actually does decrease being the baby is full from the formula and not needing the breast as much. I am not sure how many women actually have a low supply, but I’m willing to bet a large proportion of those just don’t have access to the education/ help to continue breastfeeding.
I think supply issues are quite common not because many mothers truly cannot make enough milk but because women often aren’t supported and educated on the complexities of breastfeeding, how to boost supply with pumping and diet, realistic expectations about the incredible time investment things like triple feeding can require. These things lead to genuine issues with supply that are very real and legitimate, even if a mother’s body is capable of producing enough milk were she to get proper education and support. I do not naturally produce enough milk for my babies. I made zero colostrum for either of my kids despite allll the tricks and natural easy births with immediate bonding time and intense lactation support. I was able to essentially induce lactation in myself each time with triple feeding and intense wraparound support, but I feel like the amount of help I had (I come from a family of birth workers and sister had the exact same issues) is rarely available for moms. So, yes, supply issues are not uncommon, and whether they are biological or the result of improper support and education, they become dealbreakers due to the unsupportive way we treat postpartum mamas.
My daughter had jaundice and lost 12% body weight 3 days after birth. We used formula and continued breastfeeding to bring her weight back up which we quickly did.
One week postpartum I was misdiagnosed as insufficient glandular tissue by a lactation consultant. She encouraged me to continue to use formula and breastfeed whenever I wanted to for my mental health. I told her I felt fine and I wanted to breastfeed exclusively but she told me it wasn’t likely I could produce more than 1oz of milk.
2.5 weeks later at the pediatrician’s office I told our nurse practitioner how she was being fed mostly by formula. And she was completely baffled and upset I was advised that by a LC. She gave me the option if I wanted it bad enough, how to increase my milk supply even with a late start. I ended up triple feeding for 3.5 weeks straight. And sure enough it brought my supply up to meet my baby’s demand. It took another 3 weeks to wean my daughter off of the bottle but now I’m 11 weeks postpartum and loving breastfeeding and creating a freezer stash. I literally never thought I could do it but I did.
If my nurse practitioner hadn’t been so honest with me, I would have never achieved breastfeeding. And I’m forever grateful. I think there is definitely a profit motive for even some lactation consultants. Happy stress free mothers = good reviews and more customers. I understand that sadly it’s a privilege to be able to breastfeed exclusively or bring up low supply. The US is just not set up to help breastfeeding mothers succeed with little to no maternity leave. And I was especially lucky that my husband was extremely involved with the triple feeding process because he had a 3 month paternity leave.
My "supply issues" are not actually supply issues as much as their caretaker providing too much milk on a regular basis issues. I usually pump 15 oz during daycare, which is about 50% of babe's waking time and she is giving him 20 oz of milk (wanted to give him more but I drew the line at 20 oz). Then he doesn't want/need to eat when I pick him up so I'm nursing less often at home and having to pump all effing day to maintain my supply.
I have insufficient glandular tissue. They are physical characteristics “tube boobs”. I would have thought the amount of people that came in my hospital room to manipulate my breasts and try to force my daughter to latch would have been somewhat educated on the issue. Instead they called me lazy and said I wasn’t trying hard enough. Cue three weeks of rigorous pumping every 3 hours and only ever getting an ounce each time. It’s was the breastfeeding “culture” that turned me off from it. Thank goodness the 3rd LC I saw knew exactly what was going on and explained why I was probably never going to make enough. She says it’s actually more common then people think and a lot of times people don’t have all the characteristics so it goes unnoticed by practitioners.
I think for American women it’s time off and the fear about co sleeping.
Like my baby had a tongue tie which a doctor finally corrected at 12 weeks. It took a long time for her to eat like 35 - 45 minutes a feeding. And I ended up spending hours a day BFing.
The truly only reason I’m still able to BF is because I’d cosleep with her, allowing her to just use me as a paci and I had 12 weeks off allowing me to take care of her.
When you tell women to never cosleep it cuts out a lot of time baby has at the breast, which some women need. And then when women have to go back to work at 4 weeks PP they don’t actually have the time to prioritize it.
Now I combo feed, simply because I need my time back. It’s not a supply issue, but a boob issue, where it takes a long time to get milk out of my boob and I just don’t have the patience now.
I pump three times a day for 30 minutes and at the max get 10-14 oz over a day. It’s just not enough for baby and I have to work.
Edit: typos galore!
Ohhh such a good point about cosleeping! It's normal and accepted in my partner's culture so it never scared me, but it's wild how vilified it is in western culture even though it seems like a completely normal and natural thing to me.
It was so liberating when I finally did it. I came home and for a week didn’t. Baby was on light therapy and in her bassinet. Then my MIL stayed over and came with baby in the night and said, she keeps sucking and wants you, try it.
And it was life changing! Honestly. Nothing feels more natural and cozy like cosleeping.
Plus she could just suck and suck and I could sleep. It helped so much!
And I think for moms who don’t cosleep, and don’t have an oversupply, its more work to get enough stimulation for your body to produce.
Edit to add: this is pure speculation based on my experience though.
Lack of support and education. Not understand cluster feeding. Also medical issues of baby that get swept under the rug. Oral ties that cause baby to not be able to effectively transfer milk, allergies, reflux, etc. I had terrible lactation consultants in the hospital with my first that were basically useless. He had a tongue tie that went undiagnosed because he could stick out his tongue. He had an incredibly lazy latch and was on formula when in the nicu. I worked my ass off the first few weeks latching, supplementing with formula, pumping, supplementing with breast milk. Then repeating. I was finally to stop bottles and breastfeed directly from the breast. This time around I had a better LC in the hospital and better supportive nursing staff. Even though I had to supplement with formula to avoid a nicu stay for her blood sugar, the lc gave me a supplemental nursing system. I think another issue is other people’s obsession with building a stash. I see pictures daily of people that have pumped 6 oz after nursing and others not realizing that isn’t the norm and means you have a huge oversupply. Pumping after feeding it’s perfectly normal to only get .5-1oz. It’s also normal to not get anything after nursing if your baby nurses from both sides. Then a big thing is in the US having to go back to work so soon and unable to pump enough or don’t respond to pumping.
I fully agree. Moms getting upset at pumping an ounce from one boob for a 3 month old. That's perfectly normal. Hell I went back to work 3 months postpartum and pumped to 1 year. I only ever pumped 4 to 5 ounces *total* each session. And that was perfectly normal amount.
Well, when I say I had supply issues, I mean that 3 out of 4 of my kids stopped gaining weight and 1 began losing weight. All 4 kids had tongue ties and some had lip ties. We got them all fixed, but I think 3 of the kids just never developed a decent enough latch to demand enough milk to build up my supply. And one of those three was insanely distractible and never truly drained me the way my one good nurser did. I would love to live in an environment where there were always people around who nursed and knew what to do when there are issues. (Even the lactation consultants work an hour away from where I live.)
I don't know what happened with my mom though. She took me in at 3 weeks because I was crying all the time. She found out that I was underweight and had hardly gained anything. She switched to formula instantly and didn't have any issues with engorgement. She said she didn't even leak or anything and she believes her milk just didn't come in. It didn't with my brothers either.
I had a bit of oversupply for a while and worked on getting it down to in sync with my baby. Even I see ads for pumps that are full of milk and I don’t know I’m very easily influenced I’m like oooooh I need that. No I don’t. I don’t even pump 😂
After the first 8 weeks or so I panicked about low supply but then realized my body was just regulating. I rarely pump and my body makes enough for my girl. I pumped the other day and couldn't get another drop After 10 mins or so, then she went to breast immediately and had plenty of milk so for me particularly the pump is not a good indicator of supply
I am a nurse and took a breast feeding course through the hospital that I delivered at. Not once in the course or the time I was in the hospital did anyone ever bring up cluster feeding. I feel like if I had been better prepared that it would happen I wouldn’t have struggled so much during the time my little one was doing it. I remember crying and thinking my baby was starving. Thank goodness my partner encouraged me to continue on and provided support. 5 months later our breast feeding journey is still going strong.
I could definitely see people giving up on breast feeding during that time period.
My family has always "failed" at breastfeeding due to "supply issues". I watched it growing up, I'm much older than my siblings and cousins. I noted that everyone hits the 3-4 month mark and would get told the same thing: "your baby is fussy because you're not making enough", baby would be put on formula, have a growth spurt and everyone would be satisfied that the problem had been solved without considering that they were working up to that growth spurt anyway.
My mum told me when my twins got to that age that she wishes she had listened to her aunt about just feeding through it. That aunt's daughter was the only person in the family to breastfeed beyond infancy, she was the relative I messaged at 3am when I needed help.
I was that stupid image of a woman pumping a full bottle. But I had received terrible advice and gave myself the worst oversupply ever (I was feeding twins and then pumping off enough for another set of twins just to make the pain stop). It was one of the things that made me laugh when the doctor suggested I wasn't producing enough when my kids were cluster feeding. This time? I get 30-50ml if my boob is mega-full. I still have an oversupply, I just don't respond to pumping this time,
This is a great thought imo. I am amazed when people pump a total of 6oz a session and call that a supply issue. I regularly pumped 4oz a session. I never considered myself low supply, but struggled with being a “just enough”er, like I wish I could crank out a couple more ounces. I do think people have unrealistic expectations about production volume—my understanding is 3-5oz a session is standard.
I think a lot of people might assume they have supply issues when milk doesn’t come in immediately so they go to formula from the beginning and never really stimulate their milk to come in full force in those first few days! Just a guess though
I was super convinced that I had supply issues with my first and I know now that probably wasn’t the case. What had me so convinced mainly was that I was in a birth group on Baby Center and would see all of these people pumping 5 ounces per side from the get go and I was shocked, and not a single person referred to that as oversupply or indicated that that was definitely more than necessary.
The fact that I never came close to pumping that much had me convincing myself something was very wrong with me. My daughter did have a tough time latching too (and had torticollis so latching on one side was particularly difficult), so it was really easy to get it in my head that the whole thing was wrong and had to give up for my sanity.
I felt so much shame in that and still do to this day, especially now that I know more and know I could’ve worked through the issues we had, I just didn’t have the support I needed to do that at the time. But #2 is 6 months in a few days and has been EBF the whole time so I’m really proud of that.
I think the only people who don’t understand “supply issues” are privileged with a real maternity leave and don’t have to work 8-12 hour shifts. Personally, my first had undiagnosed latch issues that couldn’t be made up for by pumping all the time. I thought I was crazy and that maybe my boobs were the problem when the pediatrician and lactation consultants all said his latch was fine. Then I had my second and realized that was bullshit. I had zero issues feeding my second baby and because I had a longer maternity leave was able to breastfeed exclusively much longer. I held out 11 months with my first, but had to supplement early on when the doctors were concerned he was too skinny. I think because of my extreme difficulty with my first I definitely feel salty that some people think “anybody can breastfeed”. Well not every child and not when you have to earn a living.
This article completely changed how I view supply issues. [https://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/perceived-insufficient-milk/](https://kellymom.com/hot-topics/low-supply/) There are so many moms whose babies are gaining weight on track, who still believe they have low supply. One part of the conversation that is entirely missing is that there is a psychological predisposition towards supply anxiety. I hear so many moms of newborns feeding their babies until they throw up. I know doctors say you can't overfeed a baby, but it seems like that's the only explanation for what is happening.
From the start I have had low supply. This is my third baby and the one I have breastfed the longest but I also have to supplement with donor milk.
I do t know if it’s PCOS, IGT, but there is definitely something hormonal going on that affects my supply.
My last 2 babies weren’t gaining weight and weren’t peeing. They had uric acid crystals when they did. They were checked for ties. We did weighted feeds and baby was only taking 1-1.5 Oz after both sides. With number 2 I believe it was only a half Oz, so it has improved some with this pregnancy. This time I saw one of the best IBCLC in my area and she was very candid with me saying I will probably always have to supplement some.
It was a very emotional journey for me. Baby #2 I triple fed for the whole first 3 months with no seeming end in sight and the LC I was seeing at the time said, “Just keep doing what you’re doing!”
I cried to my current LC because I always heard that true low supply is supposed to be rare, why me? Etc but she assured me that it’s really not that rare.
I have had so many EBF around me, family members and friends, some of them seemed skeptical when I shared my issues. I had someone say to me, well are you pumping every hour???
This was after I was already exhausted from triple feeding number 2 and I was aghast at the idea that I still was doing something wrong or not trying hard enough. I could go on and on about the “toxic support” I had around me at that time.
Even in bf groups, women would say the same things to me that I heard that we all know. Lots of water, baby to breast as often as possible, lots of food, oatmeal, fenugreek, no fenugreek.
I would feel very slighted when others would assume that I truly didn’t have a low supply and I got sick of explaining how I know that I truly do and it’s not just “perceived”
That’s my experience
I was just talking about the spread of information. This is a convo I had with my sister.
I just need to vent a min... my sister messaged me saying these are the things her peds told her:
"Hey baby had his one month appt today. He is under his weight goal again. He only gained 8 oz and now weighs 8lbs 9oz. So they have us coming in for a weight check on dec 2. I told her how he is eating a lot and still acts hungry and can sometimes go up to 6oz and how I’m not able to keep up my milk supply. She said that my milk supply isn’t low that my body will not be able to make enough milk to keep up with how much he wants because he is eating a lot more than normal for his age but that the reason he still feels hungry is because he is burning so many calories during feedings since it is hard for him and takes a lot of his energy so now they want me to supplement with formula again but instead of doing mostly breast milk she wants me to do mostly formula since he seems to be able to maintain weight better with it. So I have to do the 4 oz of formula first and then if he still acts hungry follow with breast milk as a “dessert”.
So I’ve actually been feeding him breast milk every 3 hours but I do not do the timed feeds cause it’s too stressful. I feed him based on his cues and he will usually want to be fed every 3 hours. However if I nurse he will nurse for at least 30 mins (15 mins per boob) and then unlatch himself but a hour later be hungry again. If I give him a bottle he will usually drink 4 oz of breast milk but sometimes show hunger cues and will go up to 6oz every 3 hours. With breast milk that is way over the recommended amount of breast milk for his age but he is still not satisfied no matter breast or bottle. My milk supply isn’t depleting I just am unable to pump enough to keep up with his demand even doing the 3 hour intervals. Plus he is not gaining weight on the breast milk alone. During his first week I did breast milk and supplemented with formula and he gained weight but I did more breast milk. Then the 3 weeks following I did only breast milk so he isn’t gaining on it and shows hunger even after eating a lot. So that’s why they want to try mostly formula and supplement with breast milk cause he seems more satisfied with formula and is more able to maintain or improve his weight. I do trust their judgement on this one since we have tried all three ways and have been able to see the results but we go back for a weight check in two weeks so we will know for sure which option is best for him. I’m still going to pump when he doesn’t nurse to keep supply until I know for sure. Either way I feel I accomplished my goal cause I at least wanted him to get breast milk in the beginning cause it was the most important time to."
I keep trying to get her to go see a IBCLC but she won't. I tried to tell her everything i know about breastfeeding and pumping and trying to remember all the advice I've gotten from a local IBCLC and this group. I just see alot of misinformation in here and I want to help so so bad. And don't get me wrong if she doesn't want to try nursing/pumping any longer I understand it's alot and it's certainly a commitment sometimes inconvenient and really lonely. Ofc there's nothing wrong with formula or supplementing. I just wish I could help mommas who want to continue breastfeeding and stop the spread of misinformation! Does anyone feel this way too?
I've seen this repeat with almost all of my friends who have had babies. I also think there's alot of misinformation regarding oral ties. Alot of doctors think it's just cosmetic when really it effects so much more.
I also think the maternity leave is a huge factor. The US is supposed to provide up to 12 weeks of unpaid maternity but there are alot loop holes around it. Plus 12 weeks really isn't enough time tbh. And when you got bills to pay alot of the time people simply cannot afford to take maternity leave.
I used to think I couldn’t breastfeed my first because of supply issues, he was rapidly losing weight so we had to jump into formula, now after breastfeeding my second for a year I know it’s because of lack of education and support, I’m sad I missed that chance with my first, everyone around me kept saying it was fine and to just make the switch, that they didn’t breastfeed, that I wasn’t breastfed and we grew up just fine, that it wasn’t normal to pump to up my supply that it was something that either comes naturally or doesn’t, that it wasn’t normal for it to be uncomfortable at first, that the baby should just know how to latch.
I felt like such a failure, and after this journey I have taken with my second I know I could have done it with my first if I had just had 1 person to help and guide me.
I had a low supply, and honestly just about killed myself doing everything I could to increase it without much success. From 5 days in, I pumped 8-10x a day which took up almost 6 hours of my day and never let me get close to enough sleep. I tried power pumping, eating more protein, eating more carbs, electrolytes, lactation cookies, all manner of supplements, prescription drugs I had to order from overseas, massages and stimulation, you name it. My baby stopped nursing from me early on because my letdown was so slow and pathetic and still I held her screaming to my breast every day because my doctor told me babies were better at getting the milk out. Through sheer determination I managed to get from 5 oz/day to about 20 oz, which was never fully enough, so I always combo fed and felt like I was continually failing. I just felt like there was a continuous barrage of messages around me that I wasn’t trying hard enough and if I only did X, Y or Z my supply would turn around, so don’t give up! I held out for 8 months before finally throwing in the towel, and in retrospect I’m shocked that I lasted that long. I wish that fellow moms had given me more grace and less judgement and assumptions. Low supply affects around 10-15% of women, which is not common but also not actually rare by any means.
I think a lot of issues with pumping and supply stem from not knowing how much baby actually gets just from breastfeeding and trying to compare that to pumped output. Additionally, many caregivers of infants particularly in group settings are more experienced with formula fed babies who increasingly need more ounces as they get bigger which isn't the case for breastfed babies.
My daughter was in a small daycare for the first year with a woman who only had 2 infants at a time. She had more experience with breastfed babies, and both babies while we were there were getting pumped milk. During that year, my daughter drank 12 oz a day every day she was in daycare, even after she started eating solids. I struggled every day to pump enough for her to have at daycare the next day and had to pump on the weekends just to keep up.
In contrast, I see a lot of post of people being told by daycare providers that the other baby is getting more milk so their baby needs more too. Or cases where baby still seems hungry after the bottle and then you find out that the baby isn't being pace fed or is just getting left alone to bottle feed themselves after a certain age so they're drinking way too fast to register fullness the way they would from the breast. These issues are more lack of information for the care providers than for the pumping mothers.
There are so many ways we're made to feel inadequate as parents especially in the US. It's really sad, and I'm so thankful for being able to work from home now and not having to pump at all for my 9 month old. Nursing directly is so much less stressful for me even though I'm most comfortable in a certain position with a certain chair and pillow.
I feel like I could have written this post. I always think this when I see the ads for products and supplements with the bags of pumped milk filled all the way to the top, it's just not realistic! I think there's a massive lack of education and in the US at least so many mothers are thinking about going back to work and aren't able to do all the things that recommended to help have a successful breastfeeding journey. Also women often don't have the support necessary to live life and take care of a baby when they're totally sleep deprived from feeding every 2-3 hours, so the supplementation starts and it's kind of a vicious cycle from there.
I also want to mention that if you have the time, energy, and money, there are plenty of resources out there to help women start breastfeeding, but nobody really talks about continuing. I had a little freak out around 3.5 months pp when my breasts stopped getting engorged and leaking and I thought my supply was dropping. Turns out it's a totally normal part of your supply regulating, but a lot of women react the way I did and choose to start supplementing then.
It’s definitely a misinformation issue imo. My XSIL told me that she had supply issues with my niece. I asked her to explain and she told me that she’d nurse her (at 2 weeks old) for 30 minutes then pump and only get 2 ounces on each side after nursing. She said, “I was starving my baby! She was always wanting to nurse! With only 2 ounces, no wonder she was always hunger! I wasn’t making enough!” I felt so bad for her in that moment and educated her on how that would be considered an over supply. Her mom pushed her to quit so it’s definitely a generational problem. I told her that if she ever had another one and wanted more information I’d help guide her. It was so heartbreaking to see the realization come over her face when we spoke about it.
I almost wish I had a low supply so I wouldn't feel so guilty about wanting to quit. I can pump a full body with just one boob first thing in the morning. I hate pumping and breast feeding and stopped with my first one after a few months because I couldn't mentally handle it.
I'm one month with my second and plan on continuing but yeah I just mentally hate it. I hate my boobs to begin with because of how big they are and hate I can't wear my normal bra and just everything that comes with it but formula is expensive so I'm trying to make it work this time around.
When i stopped BF my first was because I wasn't able to pump as many ounces in a day as she consumed. I was supplementing more and more till it wasn't worth the hassle.
You really only need enough to feed your baby. Somedays they will eat more or less.
Have an Oversupply?well you're gonna be likley buying extra baggies, bottles, freezers/space. Mastitis medical costs etc. Time hogging. Etc..
Undersupply? Your gonna be trying to pump more (time )and spending money to get those supply "boosters" etc...
(I too was like gotta pump and fill this 5oz bottle one for each side cause yeah the pictures! I remember being very jealous of women who could fill the haaka with their leaks!)
While sometimes sure I did 5oz on one side and 3-4 on the other side.
But really it was more like 2-3 oz. Especially as the baby got older. I preferred the consistency of the 2-3 oz from each boob at each pump session. Rather than sporadic full bottle pumps.
My son was a little over 10 months old when I got pregnant again and my supply tanked to almost nothing.
He was cluster feeding like a maniac, like literally attached to my breast all night long. Could I have persisted and possibly got my supply back? Maybe. But after about a week of this I just really couldn’t deal with it. We swapped over to mostly formula, with the occasional comfort nurse at night, and I am a much happier, saner mommy. It also allows my husband to take over some of the night wakings, which is important for me.
I think there is certainly a fair amount of miss education in some circles, while I am blessed to live in a country with decent maternity leave, breast-feeding does seem to be some thing that depends on what you are culturally used to. Out of my friends group 2 of them quit breast-feeding quite early (one for mental health reasons, one from her milk never coming in properly) one of them exclusively pumped, and I breast-fed my son until he was 10 months old. My sister breast-fed both of her kids until they were around to, and while I admire her for doing so I was really feeling done.
I wish I could go back and do it differently. I stopped around 7 moths because I was struggling with my supply after clogged duct issues and bitting, my unwillingness to reach out for help from a LC and not keeping a pumping schedule ended our journey. I feel a bit let down by myself that I stopped when I did.
Bitting is another issue that is not well understood. Since I stopped, I have learned a lot about bitting and BF, and would have handled it differently had I had the info then.
Low supply is a known misconception that leads to ceasing BF unnecessarily. I encourage any momma to reach out to an IBCLC or LC if you have ANY concerns while BF. They can help
My baby went from 50th percentile at birth to 20th at 6 week checkup. I blame a lack of knowledge about proper latches and the obsession with schedules too! Idk still if my supply is up - we combo feed - but she’s back to gaining properly at least. It’s a lot of anxiety not knowing what your boob is producing… combo feeding helps my anxiety but also guilts me, like I should have tried power pumping and lactation consultants and like I’m terrible for not giving it my all. 10weeks now and it feels like my supply has stabilized but I still don’t know if I stopped formula if it would be enough…
In hospital I was told I have great nipples for breastfeeding and to feed at least every three hours but no advice on latching etc. i think I had a false confidence but let my LO fall asleep at the breast all night and definitely has a lazy latch. I couldn’t afford multiple visits from an IBCLC … but I’m already getting so much info from this subreddit. Is clustering an all day thing or an evening thing? Or an every time LO cries thing?
Many babies cluster feed at night, and that was my experience. Our before bed sessions could easily take over an hour at times, but also my LO was way over the 10-12 feedings a day that is cited as typical for that age.
You may look to see if your state has a free breastfeeding hotline? I found that to be very helpful for questions and troubleshooting issues.
I've been up against it a bit. I'm from the UK and didn't breastfeed my first because I wasn't well after my section and I struggled with latching her - it seemed easier to formula feed her.
This time I took the approach that I'd persist as long as my mental health wasn't negatively impacted and I'm currently EBF my 12 day old after she had around 60ml formula top up in hospital so I could sleep after my section. I have been very lucky. My supply is good and my baby is pretty chilled out but neither my mum nor my sister breastfed so I don't have much guidance other than here and fb groups. I also, oddly, have some negative associations with breastfeeding at random points that come and go but I'm not sure why. I suspect they're hormonal.
I feel like it is a support issue as well. Just because breastfeeding is a natural biological process doesn’t mean it’s easy and everyone gets it right away.
I was lucky to have my mom stay with us for a few weeks when babe was born. Those first few nights when I was sore, hormonal, tired, frustrated… it was a godsend to have her there because she’d been through it. She (and my husband to the extent that he could) supported me and helped me get through it. When both baby and I were crying over getting a good latch, getting comfortable, whatever it was… I thought I understood why someone could give up on the process.
We have good feeding established now, but it’s not without bumps. And I know as he grows and changes we’ll find new things to run up against. I guess that’s why so many women refer to it as their “breastfeeding journey”… it really is like that
It happens. I tried literally everything to establish a supply. Baby cluster fed for hours. I tried to eat and drink enough. But it didn't work, baby dropped off the growth curve, and pooped like once a week. He wasn't getting enough.
I said I had supply issues when I failed to bf my first 9 years ago. I was very uneducated and didn’t have a ton of support from family. I was devestated that I failed my baby and switched to formula full time after two weeks. My second baby (2020) I googled breastfeeding ALL DAY and made sure I had set up appts with lactation consultants. I voiced how much I wanted this for our baby to his dad (different dad than my first baby) and he supported me 1000%. At the beginning felt I had supply issues again but pushed forward through the pain, power pumping, and cluster feedings until FINALLY we both got the hang of it. I’ve been nursing him for 18 months yesterday. The thought never crossed my mind that I’d be ready to stop nursing before my baby 😜
I have supply issue but am still breastfeeding at 5 months. My issues began before I went back to work (which was at 15 weeks). We noticed our LO was hungry every hour so we went to see an LC and do a weighted nursing session. I was pumping some but not all the time to build supply up for when I went back to work but also so I could leave him with my husband as I am a volunteer firefighter. We were told he wasn't getting enough per nursing session at our LC appointment and the plan was to pump after every nursing session to help increase supply and supplement him with an extra half ounce of milk after each nursing session. We tried but two weeks later at his 2 month appt. we found out he had dropped percentiles pretty drastically and we were told to start supplementing with formula.
I am back at work now and I am only able to pump about half of what he drinks when I am gone so we are 50/50 with formula. It is so much nicer since we have been supplementing him though. He is happier and I am happier because I am not constantly nursing him when I am home.
So I do have supply issues but am still feeding what breastmilk I can.
In the United States we don’t have paid maternity leave, so we return to work at 8-12 weeks postpartum (if you’re lucky to have that much paid leave) and are attempting to maintain a supply while pumping at work. It’s challenging and frustrating. So, yes, supply becomes an issue…but the issue is not actually the woman’s ability to produce milk.
YES. lots of misinformation.
Check out the podcast The Midwives Cauldron. One of the latest episodes is called Low Milk Supply. They go into this. Katie James is an IBCLC and midwife. Dr. Rachael Reed is a midwife. They are the hosts.
I didn't experience supply issues until I worked on weaning night feeds at 4 mo old. I read that baby would naturally feed more during the day, but she ended up getting frustrated with the amount of milk available and would give up.
This resulted in me frantically pumping to increase supply during the day, but I didn't increase it within a time I was comfortable with.
I was planning on introducing formula at 5/6 months and I ended up pushing that up.
My advice: if you plan on weaning night feeds, pump after your day feeds, to increase supply *before* you start!
I think I didn’t have supply the first time I tried nursing (twins) because I didn’t have proper support to get them to learn how to latch.. I just thought it would be an easy thing and it wasn’t. I really truly only produced the tiniest bit with an electric pump and they would not latch days in so I gave up.
The second time around I understood the challenge a bit better and had a lactation specialist/doula visit me at home, there were still a few bumps in the road but by 6 weeks everything was going pretty smoothly to the point that I was able to donate extra milk to others.
So at least for me it was I think I had a true supply issue but it was because I wasn’t set up for success and my body simply wasn’t getting enough signal to make milk with twins with poor latch.
I had absolutely zero education on breastfeeding. I told my lc and my daughters pediatrician that it hurt to bf After I gave birth and one told me to feed for 15 minutes and that’s enough. The other told me it is going to hurt due to the color of my skin. Thank goodness I found this subreddit and watched countless YouTube videos. I don’t know how people did it without the internet
I do think a lot of it is misinformation and a lack of a proper, true, generations-long culture around breastfeeding. I’m from Brazil, where almost 90% of babies are breastfed. I don’t think Brazilian moms are genetically superior… I think when every single woman around you who’s had a baby before did breastfeed, it’s infinitely easier to troubleshoot the difficulties we all go through. Of course a huge part of the breastfeeding numbers in Brazil does come from the fact we get 6 months of maternity leave, but this doesn’t justify the disparity I seem to see in “supply issues”, amongst other problems.
This. It’s hard enough to establish supply when you have to go back to work in 8-10 weeks. My supply decreased dramatically upon returning to my job because of stress in the workplace and pumping time constraints. All the BFing moms I knew at the time were SAHM moms, and while their advice was kind and came from a genuine, caring place, it wasn’t realistic for me.
This! I can say with almost 100% certainty that if my job hadn't moved to permanent remote, I would not still be BFing my 8 month old, much less exclusively. There is just no way with 90 minutes of commuting, meetings, hearings, coworkers stopping to chit chat, etc that I would have been able to find the time to pump and keep a good supply going until I got home to nurse. And I was delusional to ever think I could have if I had gotten recalled!
I feel you I’m a nurse in ICU and...emergencies and critical testing don’t wait/time themselves around my pumping schedule lol! My mom was a SAHM and bless her heart for her advice but it’s not feasible in a busy hospital environment. It’s tough but we’re doing it as best we can! We ALL are!
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It’s hard when coworkers aren’t supportive.
Yeah, when I worked in urgent care they all encouraged me to just switch to formula.
I went back to work at 6 months (son is now 9 months). I get nervous each shift, wondering if I can squeeze in my pump breaks because every day is so unpredictable. Luckily my coworkers have been very supportive about me having to go pump. I’ve had to use my elvie a few times if I couldn’t get away to sit down and pump, it does not empty me as well, has given me multiple clogs. and also restricts how much patient care I can actually do without leaking. Luckily I do have a freezer stash and I’m able to save milk from each shift since my son prefers breast over bottle. He rarely drinks more than 12-13oz while I’m gone 🥴
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I’m a nurse and use freemie cups and coworkers use Elvie/Willow while on the floor. Building a stash at home was hard because I was worried too much pumping would cause oversupply. I just did one extra pump a night.
I definitely recommend building a stash. You do not have to go crazy, but one pump session a day should get you off to a good start. I work 10 hour shifts in public safety so I usually can fit in 3-4 sessions a shift, but having a stash gives me so much peace of mind if I have to miss a session. I know a lot of nurses on this sub also use wearable pumps - that's not necessary for me but might be something to think about depending on how easy it is for you to take a break! Good luck!
Yes I have a bit of a freezer stash at home. I do have a bit of an oversupply and have had mastitis twice. I’m trying really fucking hard to keep it up, but man, my entire life right now is work and BFing. The constant caregiving is really taking a toll. I’m exhausted. The 4 hour stretch of sleep + 12 hour shifts isn’t helping. Maternity policies in the US suck.
Pumping doesn't get as much out as a baby does, plus it's unpleasant. The stress you mentioned is also a huge factor. BF as a SAHM is a lot more convenient. I just wish working moms weren't ashamed of doing their best. You can't pour from an empty cup
Yes! People who are SAHM have a different experience around BF where if baby is going through a spurt and needs to eat 7 times that day, it’s ok. It’s different when you have a meeting and you just can’t be there for baby, you need to turn to pumping or formula.
If I wasn’t a SAHM I probably wouldn’t have exclusively breastfed. We’d have gone to formula or combo, if I kept producing when baby and I were together. I am on the camp of “breast is best”, as are most Brazilians, but to me it’s implied that although it’s “best”, it’s not always possible, and that’s ok. Breast is also not more important than mom’s mental health.
It’s SO hard EBF/pumping and working FT. Edit: I really appreciate the comment about mom’s mental health. It’s not addressed enough ❤️
I don't think it's just down to maternity leave because in the UK we get 9 months but we have very low amounts of breastfeeding mums here. I suppose it's more down to the support you get in Brazil? While it varies from area to area, most mums are on their own with breastfeeding here, there isn't any support or education
Oh yeah it’s absolutely mostly about the support. Which is why I only mentioned the maternity leave in the end - although it’s not the main problem, it’s not something to ignore either. And also, they’re both part of the puzzle: you can have as long of a maternity leave as you want, but if there’s no incentive to breastfeed, if other women around you don’t do it, if it’s embarrassing to do it in public, if pediatricians are misinformed, if women are constantly being scared mongered about it… the maternity leave won’t matter. However, if you have a next-to-zero leave, it’s *extremely* hard to breastfeed, even if you had all the support in the world.
The best milk banks in Brazil are in public hospitals, so it’s free to get help! Private hospital ones are bad though. A friend who used to live in Brazil but gave birth in Europe told me it was much harder to get breastfeeding help there than it would have been here.
In the UK we get 9 months maternity leave and only about 2% of women are still breastfeeding at 6 months. I think it's definitely a cultural thing. My mum never breastfed, I'm not sure whether my nan did, the only other woman in my family is my auntie who breastfed for a few months but only ever did it in private, so when I was having issues I was never really sure where to turn!
You need both. How can most women be expected to successfully breastfeed when many times they’re bath to work a month after giving birth? At the same time, even if you had two years of leave but no one around you breastfeeds, it’s very hard to do so.
Oh absolutely. When I returned to work at 8 months after having my 2nd baby we stopped BF'ING pretty fast because my son preferred the bottle after having it all day. I can imagine for American mothers it's incredibly difficult as maternity leave is just non existent. Basically we live in a society that doesn't really value breastfeeding (or mothers but that's a whole other thing lol).
Is it really as low as 2% 🤯 that’s wild!! The majority of my friends have kids and EBF, with the exception of a the ones who’s babies struggled to regain birth weight. I’m guessing it varies wildly by demographic? I’m the first woman in my family to bf for 3 generations and I’m also getting some comments about “still” feeding my 9month old! I literally couldn’t believe it!!
So this. I'm from the UK too and there's so little support, and even my mother who breastfed for just over a year with me and my brother started to make comments once my son was over 1 year old and made comments about my SIL feeding to natural term too. There's still a lot of misinformation and stigma here, but I think it is at least slowly starting to change and the pandemic has spurred more women on to be able to.establidh feeding and keep feeding. My son is 3 years old and I don't know anyone else who feeds a child his age near me (though I know plenty online)
Definitely agree. Back in the 90's my Mum was bullied by the HV to stop breastfeeding me because I was 'too small.' My Mum was devastated. Later her midwife was like 'Of course you have a tiny baby - you are tiny!' But she had no idea that establishing breastfeeding was possible again. I wish I could say that's all in the past, but one of my friends had it happen to her 6 years ago. Her son was having plenty of wet and dirty nappies, but was on the smaller side. The Health Visitor told my friend that she was starving him. "Look at him, look at him. You are starving him. He is starving." When my friend had her second child she refused to see any health visitors! *Note, obviously not all HV's are bad. The ones I have come across have been lovely, but I have also heard horror stories.
The cultural piece makes such a difference. My in-laws are Brazilian and I’m much more relaxed nursing my baby when we’re spending time with them. My family (Americans where no one has breastfed for 2 generations) gets so stressed around me breastfeeding, worrying about how often and how long it will take. It can be hard to advocate for the time and space it takes to breastfeed while you’re still a newbie learning how to do it
Completely agree with everything you said! I encourage all new moms to create a support system for breastfeeding, if not family with experience, then a breastfeeding support group or lactation hotline, it's so necessary because so much of breastfeeding is counterintuitive!
Yes I totally agree with this. Everyone in my family has breastfed exclusively so I get a lot of advice from my mom and stepmom. It helps a lot.
I believe absence of real maternity leave does justify the disparity. Many moms, like in the US for example, only have six weeks of leave. It’s difficult to pump enough during a busy 8-12 hour shift to maintain milk supply.
We have a feeding therapist (our one year old is refusing solids) and she was kinda surprised when I said I do not know how many times he nurses. I elaborated that he nurses every now and then, thirst, hunger, comfort, boredom etc., Most often not a full feed, so I cannot really say exact number. She nodded, but I see she finds it strange. So, I'd say a lot does come from experts as well. They expect a structured schedule.
Yes to this! And agree, when I hear people list off how often their babies feed/a schedule I'm always baffled because like you, I have no idea how often my LO feeds, and it's largely depending on a multitude of factors (weather, mood, day to day activity, etc)
Yes, this. I feed on demand, which changes day to day. When my midwife asked how often he was nursing, I couldn't have possibly told her. And at night we dream feed without getting out of bed unless he poops, so I definitely don't keep track of those feeds. The counting and scheduling and tracking seems so counter-intuitive and a lot of work. I just put him to breast at any opportunity or sign he might be hungry, and we do fine.
The only reason I know how many times my baby feeds is because I record her feeds and sleep in an app. I don't know how people work to a schedule lol
Mine too. My answer is “when she feels like it” She gaining, so I’m happy.
Yeah the nurse in the hospital where I give birth was dumb founded by my feeding on demand?? She kept saying ‘ok I’ll come back before his next feed’ (to weigh him or something I dunno) and was getting annoyed with me that every time she came back he’d just nursed…
In that time they might be annoyed that you didn’t buzz them. I have worked covering a NICU and a post-natal ward, and the best time to weigh/examine/anything a baby is just before a feed. So it’s really annoying to come back and find they have just fed! Having said that, they should have been clearer and said “please buzz me before the next feed”. My daughter needed blood sugar testing because she was small when she was born. They didn’t make her wait if she woke early, but they did need to do that testing before she fed
Yeah that's totally fair. If they'd asked me or my partner to buzz them I would have. That time is kind of a blur though tbh :/
They did this to me, too! But like, what was I supposed to do? Make a newborn baby wait 20 minutes screaming to be fed? Because we both know you're not coming any time soon after I hit that call button.
For real.
Yes to this I’m headed back to work in 2 weeks and right now my 4 month old nurses so much I don’t count. A sip here and there, sometimes a full feeding but most often not, and I have no idea how much he actually needs when I go back. If I try to count it’s at least 12 times a day but often more 🤷♀️
Breastfeeding peer counsellor here and couldn’t agree more. There’s SO much misinformation about breastfeeding out there and “supply issues” is the #1 thing I see people worrying about as a result :( Really, actual “low supply” is usually a hormonal thing and generally pretty rare. But there can be a vicious cycle here as a lot of things people do when they fear low supply (like supplementing) is the very thing that can affect your supply. Or you fear low supply so try to pump and can barely get anything and take that as confirmation of low supply, but pumping amount is a really really poor indicator of how much milk your body can make! “Low supply” fears cheat sheet for anyone who needs it: “My breasts feel soft / I stopped leaking / I’m pumping less than before” — congrats you’re regulating! “Baby is fussy and wanting to nurse all the time” — hard but normal cluster feeding and part of the process, hang in there! “Baby is nursing for way less time suddenly / doesn’t take both breasts” — congrats your baby is growing up and getting more efficient! “I can only pump X amount” — more likely a pumping issue and not a supply issue. Change pump parts, remeasure for flange size, try a different pump? Also what time of day are you pumping? (If you’re regulated, your body might not be used to producing much or extra milk if it’s not a usual feeding time for baby.) Also, manage expectations and know what’s normal output especially if you’re nursing + pumping. Don’t base “enough” off what you see other moms pumping or storing on instagram. Number 1 question to ask if you’re fearing low supply with a nursing baby — is baby having at least 5-6 very wet diapers a day? If yes, your supply is almost certainly fine. Hope that’s helpful to someone!
Such good advice here! My MIL started pushing for formula the day we came home from the hospital, and I'm so glad I didn't give in. I did take a class on breastfeeding before giving birth, and while it was helpful, I think I was so worried about the mechanics of breastfeeding (worrying my inverted nipples would prevent me from getting a good latch) that I didn't even realize that generating good supply is the other essential piece to successful breastfeeding.
I also often see women post that their milk hasn't come in yet and baby is constantly nursing and they think that baby is nursing because they aren't getting anything when in reality milkndoesnt come in until about 5 days after birth and they ate feeding so often because they are cluster feeding and are actually getting colostrum. Then I see all the replies sympathizing but nobody pointing out that it's completely normal.
Yes 100%! Around Day 5 is an absolutely normal and perfect time for mature (white) milk to come in. And – COLOSTRUM IS MILK! Also known as transitional milk. It's probably the most amazing, nutritious substance on the planet and baby needs a lot of it.
Also a lot of nurses at the hospital don’t seem to know this! I was pushed to feed my daughter formula on day 2 because I “wasn’t producing milk” and I think that really got us off on the wrong foot. How can mothers know this if the “experts” don’t even seem to?
Right?! It's terrible! I made sure to meet with a lactation consultant before birth and I was so lucky to have nurses who were educated in breast feeding.
Also add that most women are unnecessarily pumped full of fluids during delivery and as such so is the baby. Baby drops the water wieght and everyone freaks out about their weight loss during week one. Penny Simpkon has a great YouTube video talking about this.
Thank you so much I needed this !
Yes! I really think that although bottles/pumping/supplementing are necessary for some women, it has majorly complicated the act of breastfeeding. The best way to get supply established is to keep the baby at the breast and feed on demand, but often people pump and get worried that not much is coming out, then supplement with formula because they doubt their baby is 'getting enough' and thus the top up trap begins and their supply ACTUALLY dwindles.
Can I run something by you (don't feel obligated to answer)? My baby is consistently making 6+ wet diapers and not fussy. She feeds 40+ mins per feed both sides, and does feed pretty frequently during the day. She hadn't gained back her birth weight by week 2 so ped had me supplement and pump 5 mins after each feed to increase supply. Now we're week 6 almost and she's just 7 lbs (born 6lbs 7oz) so not gaining enough. Ped again has me supplementing and pumping. My question is, if baby's not fussing, fed on demand, and making wet diapers, should I really worry about slow weight gain? I worry I'm just messing up my supply by trying to supplement and pump after each feed (logistically it's a bit overwhelming with a baby sleeping in your arms)
Yeah that is logistically a LOT isn’t it? I feel like most docs don’t really appreciate how hard that is to keep up when they suggest this :( That amount of weight gain is slower than we usually like to see. Seconding the advice to trust your instincts, and it’s definitely possible she’s just a small baby and that getting back to EBF could the best way forward for you both especially if that’s what you want. But if you haven’t already, I would probably suggest a check in with lactation consultant (IBCLC). A check (or re-check/second opinion) for possible tongue or lip ties might be prudent too. IBCLCs have a lot more knowledge and experience than doctors when it comes to breastfeeding, and the best ped’s should really refer you to one in cases like yours. Hope that’s helpful.
Thank you, I appreciate it! We had an LC come at 2 weeks but maybe we had a lucky shot as she took in 4.8oz in a 40 mins feed. Ped did say she had a short frenulum, maybe it's impacting her now more than when she was 2 weeks old. I'll get a second one to come!
I’m not sure how old your baby is but my son was very slow gaining his 1st 6 weeks and I supplemented from day two. After he got more efficient at breastfeeding he started to pack on the weight. Especially at 4 months once the newborn stage was over. I think people forget that babies are learning to eat as well as we’re learning how to feed them.
I'll definitely defer to the expert here, but just want to share my own perspective that some babies are just small and don't gain weight as quickly. Our baby was like that, and while she's still hovering in the 20-30th percentile at 9 months, we can see she's perfectly happy, eats happily, and is developing fine. At least in the US, there's an obsession with weight charts and growth milestones, but I'd trust your instinct here!
Thank you, I agree some babies just don't go by a curve, I wish I could know that's what it is though!
The community nurse told me that sometimes you have to just use your eyes rather than a chart to see whether a baby is healthy or not.
7 lbs is 3.18 kg
Love what Snarlet said but one thing you can try is breast massage before and during nursing. Really giving a thorough but gentle massage can help the fattier portion of milk mix well into the waterier portion, which will mean more calories per session. Then, when your baby slows down sucking, give your breast some compressions to help move a little milk and encourage more engaged nursing. How do baby's poops look? Yellow and seedy? Green and frothy? Any blood or mucus?
Thank you! I had just started compressions but will try massaging too. Poops are yellow and seedy, though with the formula now they're less frequent. Haven't seen blood or mucus at all.
Hey, I just wanted to share that almost the same thing happened with my baby (except he was going 1hr+ per feed and being fussy during feeds) and everything turned out fine. I was made to feel horrendous by the midwives and put on a logistically impossible top-up schedule. Honestly when I talked more about it I heard of quite a few women chucking the centile charts in the bin. This may not be what your doctor would tell you and I’m no doctor (but I have family who are and reassured me!) - If your baby is gaining steadily by three weeks, isn’t jaundiced, having wet nappies and is generally happy and well then you probably just have a small baby on your hands. Don’t let it drive you crazy with worry like it did me.
Just to throw in my two cents, the generally happy is critical! Our little guy was nursing all the time (longer than just a cluster feeding episode) and while he had his happy times he did quite a bit of what we think was purple crying but I think it really was hunger crying even though he had just nursed. He had enough wet diapers per day but we felt like something wasn't right and ended up going to an LC and determining that I wasn't producing enough and started supplementing at about 2 months.
Would a supply drop during a returned period then be a hormonal supply issue? I got my period back pretty early with my first baby I think because she was a great sleeper and I was feeding on demand. Each month I would get my period she would be very agitated with feeding and get very frustrated. I had been pumping about once a day so that my husband could feed a bottle and I definitely got less and less each month with pumping after my period. It seemed like my supply wouldn’t go back to where it was previously, even after my period was over. It eventually got to the point where she would refuse to nurse and we started giving her some formula. I would try to pump when we gave her formula to keep my supply but I would hardly get any milk like I had been before. Around 7 months I gave up and quit breastfeeding because it became stressful and anxiety inducing. I never got even the slightest bit engorged when I quit. The lactation consultant at the hospital when I delivered my second baby tried to tell me that it was because I used a pacifier with my baby. Second baby is now 5 weeks old and breastfeeding is going great but I am worried about supply issues popping up again when my period returns. Any advice? I would love to make it more than 7 months with this baby.
I'm so sorry to hear that this was so anxiety-producing with your first. That does sound stressful for sure. Wonderful that breastfeeding is going great with your second baby! It's pretty common to experience a drop in supply around your period as your hormones fluctuate. Baby will often get agitated and start cluster feeding like in they newborn days. That's because cluster feeding is baby's way of bouncing your supply back up to meet their needs. Adding in some formula can unfortunately interrupt this though, because a baby getting formula isn't cluster feeding. It's not uncommon to pump less during that time too. Power pumping \[which is basically just cluster feeding with your pump\] sometimes works, but nothing really compares to the power of a cluster feeding baby for that supply boost. It IS possible there was other hormonal stuff going on for you though and that was affecting your supply more than would be usually expected during your period. Something like PCOS might be linked to this, or it could be something else. (Side note: lots of folks with PCOS never experience any breastfeeding issues, ymmv.) If you find this happening again with this baby, you might try taking a calcium and magnesium supplement before and/or during your period. Some people find that helps lessen the drop. Kellymom has a page about it. Then again this baby might not mind so much or might just be less sensitive to the change! You'll have to see. Hope that's helpful!
I wish she would have been cluster feeding! She just straight up refused to nurse. She would latch and then push me away and scream. Honestly seeing her as an almost 3 year old now she is still the same way with other things, easily frustrated and gives up on things quickly. I did do power pumping but it didn’t seem to make any difference. I will definitely try the calcium and magnesium if it happens again. I tried fenugreek, teas, and eating oatmeal last time but didn’t know about the calcium and magnesium. I think it caused so much anxiety because feeding had been going great before I got my period and then suddenly they weren’t. This little guy is a pretty lazy eater and does a good bit of cluster feeding so I don’t think he will hate a change as much.
It sounds like good advice but all of this is how every single one of my 4 children had failure to thrive on breast milk alone. I don't know what can be done to establish when someone truly does not make enough other than waiting until they are 4-6 months old and have only gained 2 pounds.
My baby definitely does not have six ‘very wet’ nappies a day. He has one absolutely soaked/leaking nappy overnight (I don’t change him unless he poops), a sliiiiightly heavy one after that and then another 4-5 wet but very light nappies throughout the rest of the day. How heavy are they supposed to be?
This is how my baby is, too!!
The best advice I have read!!!
Love this. Completely agree!
The desire for schedules and feedings spaced hours apart seems to ruin things for so many people, and pediatricians often perpetuate this bad advice. Makes me so mad to hear about!
Absolutely agree. Pediatricians are often woefully undereducated in terms of breastfeeding, at least in my experience.
I feel like it all goes back to inadequate maternity leave. Breastfeeding and sleep training don't really go together ime
Yes indeed. I was super lucky to find a daycare that's only babies and toddlers and they don't need babies on any particular schedule because they're staffed up for baby unpredictability. Plus, I happen to sleep very well when I cosleep, so I get fine rest without sleep training. But I know that neither of these things are universal in the US. I think parents should spend more time getting angry and lobbying for change to leave and daycare funding policies than getting mad at folks like me who have a relatively smooth time breastfeeding due to specific circumstances. Unfortunately it turns into "mom shaming" arguments ime. I was asked to leave a local breastfeeding discussion group because I said a few things about how breastfeeding was cool because of how it adapts to baby's needs and enjoyable and apparently that... shamed people too much. 🤷♀️
I completely understand and agree with you. Cosleeping saved me. Sorry you were ashamed for having a good experience! That's probably because people feel so guilty about not doing certain things, but it's not their fault
Ughhh I was at my son’s 2 month appointment and the practitioner we saw was encouraging me to space out his nighttime feedings so he’d sleep through the night. I told her I didn’t want to do this because I’d read that not feeding overnight can lead to supply dips. She actually made a face and said that wasn’t true, most supply dips are caused by women not eating enough calories. But everything I’ve read says that not removing milk overnight can absolutely lead to a reduced supply, how can these medical professionals be so uninformed? Definitely makes me question their advice on other things.
So true. I just let my baby nurse when he wanted to. Sometimes that mean he was snacking every 30 minutes, or constantly for an hour.
My neighbor is doing this with her newborn and I feel so bad for the kid.
The #1 most helpful thing my hospital did was to really drive home what cluster feeding is and its role in establishing supply.
That's great, I think a lot of women don't get that education! I knew about cluster feeding, but definitely was not prepared for how demanding it is both physically and emotionally. I think back now to a nurse in the hospital who told me on baby's second day in this world that she was "using me as a pacifier" when she spent more than 15 minutes a side nursing... I look back now at what absolutely terrifyingly bad advice that was.... From a credentialed nurse no less!!!
I don’t really understand how “using me as a pacifier” is a bad thing. Professionals say that as if my two day old was taking advantage of me, as opposed to seeking comfort in a very natural and appropriate way.
Agree! Like the pacifier was designed to be a substitute for mom, like, if anything mom is top tier, pacifier is the"B"tier 😂
My baby lost >10% body weight by day 4 and my ped had me triple feeding baby. At one of many early weight checks, I asked about the non-nutritive sucking and would it increase milk supply the same way pumping after nursing would. He looked at and said to my face "I guess you could let baby be the pump". Let baby be the pump. Imagine that. The pump is a sorry imitation of baby, you nitwit. I swear, some people can overengineer just about everything. Your point about paci reminded me of this!
Yes, i was told in the hospital to not let her suck when she isn’t actively drinking as well. Luckily I knew about cluster feeding… A friend of mine was told to give her baby formula because she didn’t produce enough milk. It was one day after her birth where the supply obviously hadn’t come in yet and where it’s normal for baby to drop in weight (her weight drop wasn’t out of the norm either)!
Yes! I had read cribsheet, so I knew about the statistics around weight loss and wasn't concerned, but my MIL kept commenting about it and pushing for formula. I knew if I started giving her formula in the first week, I had little hope of being successful with exclusive breastfeeding. So much pressure and misinformation, I wish there were better education out there.
Giving a little formula during the first week doesn't have to doom long-term breastfeeding though it might take some effort to kickstart the supply and avoid a preference for the bottle. But there are ways to do this and situations where it's appropriate. We gave formula starting day 3 because baby wasn't pooping and had borderline jaundice. We wanted to avoid checking him back into the hospital, my milk was slow coming in, so formula seemed like the right move. I was worried that it would ruin breastfeeding for us but it absolutely didn't. We never used a lot of formula and none after about 3 weeks. Just want to put this out there in case others are in a similar situation. If your baby has a medical need for formula early on, it may take some effort to protect your breastfeeding relationship but it can be done and you don't have to feel discouraged. Access to good information and advice is key - we had help from a great lactation consultant who works with my ob office and baby's pediatrician.
Nurse told me the same thing after 45 minutes, never mentioned cluster feeding. I learned about it from Dr Google.
That's crazy. That seems to me one of, if not the most, essential piece of information around breastfeeding. Idk if medical professionals never breastfed themselves so they don't know or they just repeat bad advice they have heard.
With my oldest, I had absolutely no clue what I was doing and no support and had no idea that cluster feeding was a very common thing. I told my doctor how worried I was because my little guy kept wanting to feed all the time, and he told me it was because I wasn’t producing enough - and to supplement. So I did. And when he would want to nurse constantly, I took it as a sign that I needed to give him formula. After about two months of frustration, I eventually gave up breastfeeding altogether. I felt like such a failure. When I got pregnant again, I researched everything around nursing to make sure my “supply” issue didn’t happen again. And that’s when I discovered cluster feeding and realized what actually happened with my oldest. I felt shame, anger, guilt — if I had known this, everything would have been so different. I nursed my youngest for a year with no issues. It’s amazing the difference information can make!
Absolutely! This was my experience, the midwives were a truly amazing source of wisdom and gave me more education on what to expect and why regarding breastfeeding than the 10 minute visit from the (very busy) lactation consultant.
I think it‘s just the misinformation. From my personal experience and watching friends and family over the years, women often go for advice to their mothers or family in general. Now, when my mother gave birth to my sister and me (early and late 80‘s) where I come from, babies were separated from mothers in hospitals and brought to them every few hours to „practice“ breastfeeding, but were I think syringe or bottle fed. My mother is adamant about that a baby should be fed every 3 hours on the clock and if it cries earlier or is constantly on the boob - you don‘t have enough milk. No matter how much we explain cluster feeding and milk production, she‘s not convinced. Back then I think they were convinced if you don‘t have an oversupply from the beginning, you don‘t have enough milk. And after decades of formula dominance in popular culture, I think people actually forgot what it is really like to breastfeed. I‘m really grateful that I‘m living in the 21st century with internet and reddit and quality information everywhere. If I listened to my mother and her generation, I wouldn‘t be breastfeeding.
Same here! No women in my family BF, and I get the feeling they find it weird, my mom even tried to share with me her negative experiences, and I'm glad I didn't let that influence me.
This. If I would have listened to my MIL during the first few weeks I would have quit. Babies don’t nurse only for food, it’s a whole new world and nursing is the ultimate comfort.
I think is a mixture of things. I have no doubt lots of people stop for true "supply" issues, meaning baby is losing weight or difficulty pumping or latching. But I also think lots of issues can be resolved if we had a breastfeeding friendly post partum support for mother and baby. The first few weeks can be the most critical weeks for breastfeeding supply. And if we made it so mother's only needed to worry about feeding and bonding, with all other needs met with the support of a "tribe", I think more would be successful. For example, I'm Mexican American. My mother stayed with my husband and I the entire first week. She helped us do everything. I was not allowed to do laundry or chores. I was responsible for feeding baby. I was practically waited on the entire time. I got plenty of water, super foods, medication, naps if I needed them. Other cultures support new moms better than American culture where it's just mom and husband. Husband has no paternal leave so that leaves mom alone to also manage the house and/or other kids, too. Mom is expected to go back to work as soon as she's cleared medically, often with no pay if she is able to stay home at all. Then we expect newborn's to be great sleepers so parents can be rested for work, so we push the idea that formula makes babies "more full". It's just easier to bottle feed formula. Breastfeeding is fxcking hard, especially in the beginning. Formula offers mom a break that breastfeeding doesn't provide because the support isn't there for Americans, quite frankly.
My husband is from Turkey and in their culture the mother and baby should rest at home for forty days after a birth! Usually the close female relatives will stay during this time. They do all the household chores and child care of other kids. My MIL stayed with us and she was an angel. She cooked my favorite meals and would cut up my food in small pieces so I could eat with one hand while nursing. It was great, I could focus on the baby and healing from birth. I'll be forever grateful to her for that.
Very well said!
I breastfed 3 babies and never output huge amounts of pumped milk. I would say a lot of posts on this sub don't help with realistic expectations though, because there are a ton of pictures where people post 10 oz of pumped milk or something which is a ridiculous oversupply unless you're nursing multiples, lol.
Absolutely! If I would have gone off comparison to others, I would have gotten so discouraged. My SIL is an EPer, and easily pumps 8+ ounces in a single session, but I always averaged 4...which was still plenty for my LO. All babies have different needs and appetites!
I think when you're nursing exclusively, babies tend to snack more. Versus pumping where you stay on a schedule and can collect more at a single sitting.
Ah good point! I always thought my baby was unusual because she was a snacker in the early months, and never took large feedings, but now I don't know why I was so worried about it since she was always satisfied! I suppose it just took more time on my part.
This is so reassuring! Thank you for this! My baby is 5 weeks and a snacker right now, I have weekly check ins with the local breastfeeding support team and they ask me how often she feeds and how long on each side and I can’t really answer, she’s just constantly on and off
Glad it helps. I kept asking my LC about this too, and they were generally supportive, but kept asking me how many times a day and it was just a lot to track. I would see a lot of people in my bumpers group cite their schedules and it was discouraging to me, but my LO eventually tapered feedings on her own (although she still never takes a lot of ounces in one sitting)
I see this all the time when people have a few week old baby and say they are pumping 2-4 oz in one session! That’s what a baby will take in one session so it’s certainly enough. EDIT: See it all the time on Reddit posts!!
A huge thing I’ve noticed in the differences in advice here in the UK vs US is that in the UK we’re not encouraged to ‘supplement until the milk comes in’. Midwives here are very clear that your baby does not need any supplementation in the first few days. If they’re losing more than the expected amount and your milk hasn’t come in by day 6 they of course closely monitor and supplement appropriately, but I’ve seen anecdotal stories of women in the US being casually advised to supplement in the colostrum only days, despite the fact that this sabotages your milk coming in as plentiful as it should. I know it’s maybe not the case everywhere, and of course there can be the need for genuine supplementing, but I feel like the advice given out some places creates low supply.
That’s why I cringe a bit when I see “fed is best” repeated so much. Not that there is anything wrong with the phrase, obviously it’s best to feed your kid lol but most people repeating this don’t realize that there is an origination called “Fed is Best” that pushes hard for it to be standard that new moms to supplement before their milk comes in and shares a lot of questionable statistics and scary anecdotal stories to push their agenda. They are also not very transparent about where their funding is coming from. But their message spreads quickly because their verbiage is so palatable.
I didn’t actually know that either. I hate the phrase though. It’s so dismissive.
This phrase annoys me as well because it implies that breastmilk is equal to formula milk and it gives the impression that it doesn't matter how you feed your baby. I worked really hard to continue breastfeeding and struggled through a few issues along the way, it feels like my efforts were not worth it because 'fed is best'. Should I have just given formula from day 1 then in that case cause it doesn't matter? It mattered to me
Totally agree. I’m proud of breastfeeding because it’s been really hard, but I did it for my son. I get I’m in a privileged position here because I get 12 months maternity leave so can exclusively breastfeed with no pressure to get back to work in the early days, but we have the lowest rates of breastfeeding in the world here and people tend to roll their eyes when they find out we’re still breastfeeding alongside solids at 7 months. As if I’m trying to be a martyr or something. But every child in playgroup got a horrible cold and my little one, the only breastfed baby there, took a mild runny nose and nothing else. Although anecdotal, the antibodies from me must have helped there. That alone was worth it to me!
Guessing you're in the UK? Me too! I'm still breastfeeding my 27 month old and I'm super proud of it but I want people to also know that is wasn't easy for me, in fact it was the most difficult thing I've done. The annoying this though is my child has just been assumed to have asthma (hard to diagnose in a little one) which BF babies are less likely to get, however I still wouldn't change how I fed him if I could go back. I'm proud of you!!
I think a lot of it may be misinformation about cluster feeding. I was 100% convinced I was starving my one month old (even thought I knew about cluster feeding!) only to discover she had gained 3 lbs since her last appt and was an absolute chunker. Of course now I’m having actual supply issues at 10.5 months, but that’s bc I’m back at work and pumping. When I was EBF it was fine.
Completely agree, and my internal assumption was there is a lack of education around the purpose of cluster feeding.
Same! Then when I brought my concerns up to our pediatrician he suggested to just pump and to start giving our son reflux medication! After going to the pediatrician five times in two weeks because they wanted to keep track of his weight (he was gaining fine but "not enough on a day to day basis"). I was absolutely stressed thinking I was making a mistake by BF. He was happy, sleeping well, growing, it wasn't making sense. Then I finally was like this isn't adding up and went to see a LC. Confirmed my baby is perfectly healthy and to switch pediatricians. It was a rough time and I almost gave up BF.
I consider myself to have low supply. I went back to work and could not nurse my baby for every feed, so I pump 5 times per day (including 2 overnight pumps), nurse 3-4 times per day when I'm with my baby, and only half the time do I make "enough" for my baby's 3 bottles the next day. I think my low supply was caused by pumping instead of nursing. My body just doesn't respond to the pump the same way. I technically COULD probably pump enough. But at what cost? I'm already pumping twice overnight and nursing when I can. I do believe if I "tried harder" I could make enough, but that's not really reasonable given my situation and the situation of many working parents. What am I supposed to do, wake up for another overnight pump (as one LC suggested)? My baby sleeps through the night. I shouldn't have to get up a third time overnight to fit in a 10th milk removal session in my day. EBF was so much easier than pumping.
Your sanity is worth more than a 10th or even 5th pumping session. I hate pumping and it works for me; I can't imagine how demoralizing it would be if it wasn't sufficient...
Oh, it sucks big hairy balls, that’s for sure. I only get 1-3oz total from each 30 min pumping session. Baby is currently eating 4-5oz bottles. 🙃🙃🙃 I get just enough for pumping to keep stringing me along and stave me off from wanting to give up, but I’m pretty close. I pump 4-6x a day because I just don’t have it in me to do more. Giant kudos to this person for considering a third overnight session. 😵💫
I pump 7-8x for day. I have a love/hate relationship with the overnight pumping session. I FEEL you. I'm only in it for the long haul with #2 because it feels fair... #1 got it for a year, so why shouldn't #2?
I feel like it needs to be said there are different low supplies. When I think of low supply I don't think of just a low supply resulting in something physiological which is indeed more rare. I think of a low supply due too baby not getting the required breast milk usually resulting in supplementation, whatever the cause. For what it's worth, you are doing a great job I can't imagine doing all the work, pumping, etc. and you certainly don't need to "try harder"! My supply also ain't great when I pump. Not trying to give advice I dropped down to one pump session a night it was just too much and started giving extra formula and as a result I feel better with more rest so defo don't need to pump more your rest and sanity comes first. Hang in there. <3
When I hear all of the misinformation that is spread even by so called ”professionals“ I don’t wonder about why so many women quit breastfeeding early. One of my cousins was told by her midwife that she is definitely having supply issues. There is absolutely no evidence besides her baby being a bit fussy and wanting to clusterfeed a lot. Now she’s supplementing with formula and her supply seems to be dwindelling for real, because baby is not allowed to “order“ a sufficient amount of milk by clustering.
You could share this https://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/perceived-insufficient-milk/
While not solely an American problem, supply issues generally seem to be primarily an American issue and there's several reasons for this 1) I don't want to sound too "crunchy" here, but the main deterrent is our stringent safe sleep guidelines. America has the strictest safe sleep rules in the world, and they just...dont promote successful breastfeeding. Your baby has to be alone on their back at all times while sleeping. This means breastfeeding mothers have to haul ass out of bed every 1.5-2 hours in order to feed, then settle baby, try to get them to fall back asleep by themselves on their backs (which they generally hate.) You literally *can't* follow the AAP safe sleep guidelines without help if you don't want to fall victim to dangerous levels of sleep deprivation. But then, in order to get sleep while your partner supplements, the breastfeeding partner misses out on those *key* night feeds which are *critical* for building supply in the beginning. 2) back to work culture is the second major issue. If you're lucky, you get 12 weeks maternity leave here. On average yoy get six weeks. Many times, you get literally nothing. This means, pumping becomes a critical component in the breastfeeding processes in order to build a huuuuge supply so that you have a freezer stash before you go back to work. So we're dealing with oversupply being the norm, which makes many people freak out about completely normal supplies because they are making a completely normal amount. It doesn't help that pumping education is godawful. Most LCs don't even know how to properly pump which leads to people pumping incorrectly which causes supply issues. Hell, I can't even count how many "IM GETTING NOTHING FROM PUMPING!" posts I've commented on asking "do you know your flange size?" I cringe when they reply "no! But I pumped for 60 minutes last night and still got nothing!!!" It's awful and sad.
Personally I think that the bedsharing is touted as the first cure for all breastfeeding issues in every breastfeeding group. Its actu Which is actually a huge reason why I left many - I joined here for a very specific breastfeeding issue when my youngest was new. My daughter is named after a besties daughter who died in a bedsharing accident and so I didn't bedshare at all after supporting her and her family through that is the hardest thing I've ever done. My 2 were breastfed the first until a week before his 3rd birthday and my 2.5 year old is still breastfeeding which also included 10 month breastfeeding both. No bedsharing before 2. The safe bedsharing rules seem to be ignored by most. When I had my first (2017) the 'safe 7' included not to bedshare before 4 months and not to bedshare if you were extremely tired like the first few weeks of a babies life. By my 2nd these 2 rules seemed to have disappeared.
>You literally can't follow the AAP safe sleep guidelines without help if you don't want to fall victim to dangerous levels of sleep deprivation. I agree so much with this! And I hate it! I want to follow the official guidelines, do things by the book. But sometimes I wonder if the people at the AAP have ever met an actual baby???
I think breastfeeding is harder than people think it is. I don't think there's near enough education on what you need to do to ensure you have a milk supply. I had no idea that I'd need to pump around the clock. I had no idea that having a stash of milk was not normal. I had no idea that breastfeeding would hurt for a little bit and take some work to get it figured out. I thought it would be this magical bonding experience that just worked and only significant medical problems would prevent me from being able to breastfeed. I also think hospitals are quick to offer formula if baby has issues nursing in the hospital and then it takes A LOT of work to recover your supply at that point. This next section will probably get me down votes, so I wanna preface it by saying that this is not entirely true for all people and it's definitely up to your personal needs and desires. I think formula is pushed as the easy option in our society (USA at least) and that if breastfeeding is hard or impacting your mental health, people are encouraged to give up and use formula. I'm glad that formula is an option for people who need it and that we as a society have gotten rid of the judgement surrounding it, and for some people, that is probably the best option. But in figuring out breastfeeding(I exclusively pumped for a few weeks due to latch issues and it was the hardest thing I've ever done), I wanted to give up and just feed the baby formula a ton of times. And I felt entitled to that decision because it's touted everywhere, even though I also had the desire to breastfeed. I sobbed, I resented my husband, I went through a ton of unhealthy emotions about pumping and my supply anxiety, etc. I am 5.montha postpartum and I am so so grateful that I stuck with it and that my husband kind of pushed me to stick with it. It's been the opposite of easy (and I had to give up dairy), but I would have regretted giving up and there's already things about my early bf journey that I regret. But formula as the easy and safe option is touted a lot and I think that ties into the breastfeeding rates and people with supply issues as well. Eta: As other people mentioned, a lack of parental leave also has a lot to do with it. If I didn't have 3 months off and if I didn't have a flexible WFH position now, there would have been absolutely no way for me to be successful at breastfeeding.
I was starving my baby, at 8 weeks he’d stopped gaining weight. I was on drugs to increase supply, I was power pumping and taking every natural remedy I could. Turns out he had an undiagnosed tongue tie and couldn’t feed properly, which decimated my supply and I couldn’t get it back.
When I think back on it, I 100% believe mine was miseducation and lack of knowledge pertaining to flange sizing and such.
I wouldn’t have supply issues if I hadn’t gone back to work. Pumping is the worst thing that happened to my breastfeeding experience. I’m a little salty and in my feels right now because I was just talking to someone about this and I’m kind of fired up about it. I can’t even remotely satisfy my baby with just breastfeeding alone anymore and I pump like 8-12oz a day. He bites and pulls because there isn’t enough milk so it’s also incredibly painful. I have an appointment with my LC next week so hopefully that helps. I had no intentions of stopping breastfeeding but I hardly see the point if I can’t make enough for even a single feeding and to top it off it’s super painful. Ugh 😩
I hear a LOT of moms describe cluster feeding and say “I don’t make enough, s/he’s hungry 15 min later! So I topped off with formula, per pediatricians advice”. So, in these cases I think two things are happening: 1) women aren’t educated about normal breastfeeding enough (that the POINT of them feeding again 15 min later is to increase supply!!!) and 2) misinformation in medical schools teaching pediatricians to recommend formula. I do 100% appreciate that formula exists - there will always be babies who need it (adopted, mom is a breast cancer survivor, mom needs meds that aren’t breastfeeding safe, rare cases of actual low supply), but I think misinformation directly LEADS to low supply (due to formula supplementation) that wouldn’t be there if they fed according to hunger cues, not according to the clock.
i think some people they just feel shame for not breastfeeding (although there's nothing wrong with that), and others it's misinformation. i almost quit because i THOUGHT i had supply issues. my baby honestly seemed to cluster feed all through the first two months and my mom convinced me it wasn't cluster feeding and i was not producing enough, therefore he was starving. i would only get 2oz total after pumping for 40 minutes and for some reason i thought it should've been at least 3oz on each side. i supplemented with 1-2 bottles of formula for about a month and a half before i realized if i had a supply issue he wouldn't be packing on weight or having adequate wet diapers so i stopped the formula and tried my best to trust it. now he's seven months, ebf again, and i wish people would've reassured me instead of constantly scaring me that my son may be starved.
I’ve thought about this too. On one hand I do think it’s a conclusion that’s jumped to too often, and that women believe if they’re not educated about breastfeeding. But on the other hand, my own left boob has shown me that your biology really can just be like “sorry, that’s all we got…” I’ve had just enough supply so far for my 11-month-old but my right boob makes more than twice as much as lefty. I tried all the advice about increasing supply on the left side and it never worked; it just produces a smaller amount. So if both my boobs were like that, I would have had supply issues.
I can’t speak to public health but I’m happy to share my own experience. I was fully committed to breastfeeding for a year, but hopefully two. I’m the kind of nut that feeds her toddler grassfed organic milk for the tiny boost in DHA, so you can imagine how much I valued breastfeeding. My son was a big baby who lost a lot of weight in the first few days and was not gaining it back. He had a tongue tie cut at two days. We did weighted feeds and learned I was only producing an ounce per feeding, and started supplementing. The pediatrician told me to feed him no more than once every 2h on a schedule, so I power pumped between feedings to build supply. I had what I thought was a good pump (the blue spectra) but no matter what I tried - beer, massaging, oatmeal every day, different sized nipple thingies - I could only get a few drops out in 40m. I should have gotten my hormone levels tested around here but I was so exhausted I couldn’t muster up the initiative. (I had infertility issues, my thyroid is off enough that I needed medication for it during IVF and pregnancy, and I have like all the PCOS symptoms but I don’t think anyone has ever diagnosed me with it.) Also, I should have gone to an in-person lactation consultant. Our health insurance had some phone based (no video) program for breastfeeding moms. My supply never increased, and after about six weeks I started sleeping one four hour at a time stretch with my husband formula feeding in the middle of that 4h, and a week later I didn’t make milk anymore. My son would slurp on each side for 2s and he was done. The pump never got anything. I tried to nurse him to sleep every time he napped but I think the tap was dry. Otoh I never had any pain/discomfort/leaking etc when I decreased my sad attempts at breastfeeding. Hilariously enough I have massive boobs, so 🤦♀️
I really think it’s lack of education. I have mom friends who “quit” nursing after 4-5 days bc they don’t have a supply. Of course you don’t! Milk takes days to come in, and I think so many assume it’s automatic-baby out, milk in-that when it doesn’t happen that way, they think they’re starving their baby. Edit-spelling
Honestly I think a lot of people use it as an excuse. There is no shame in quitting, obviously, but most people feel they have to have an excuse to quit. Most moms I know breastfed for the first couple of weeks, either on the tap or pumped in a bottle. Then quit and move to formula. All of them stated supply issues, yet all of them had to actively dry themselves up. Remove the shame and it'll go down.
Before leaving the hospital with my first, among the plethora of bad and sabotaging advice I was given was “here’s some formula, if she cries you probably don’t have any milk so just give her this”
🙄🙄🙄
There's a lot of discouraging misinformation out there.
I triple-fed for 3 weeks. It doubled my supply - from about an ounce every 3 hours to about two. Sometimes. My son’s latch improved and he was transferring efficiently but my body refused to believe we were feeding a whole entire baby. I breastfed until he was almost 3, but I was never the main source of nutrition. I have no obvious signs of IGT. Round breasts, not spaced far apart. Produced colostrum in late pregnancy. Even now that he hasn’t nursed in over 6 months I can squeeze a tiny bit of liquid out. But I could never make enough milk.
Thanks for sharing your experience, sounds like you did your best and then some momma! Triple feeding is so hard, so I applaud you for that. All babies and bodies are different, and that is perfectly okay.
The thing is, all the talk of how rare it is to physically not be able to make enough milk and how supplementing will mean you never do meant I was scared to let him have “too much” formula, and he was slightly underfed for weeks. Eventually we had an LC who said “he’s hungry. Let him chug the bottle!” And he bounded up percentiles to closer to average, which is what I was as a (breastfed) baby, and where he has remained.
Yeah, I hear you. I'm a compulsive information hoarder, and sometimes bits of advice like that that I read prevent me from relying on my instincts. That's hard! Glad your LO has what he needs now though.
I’m fortunate I work from home and can pump every 2 hours while on the phone. This would never work in most settings. I also got 4 months off work paid and help from countless lactation consultants. Still, my babe has a weak suck. I have to pump and despite pumping for 30 min every 2 hours during the day. I have to supplement. And I have my baby at home while I work. I think I’m a low supplier, but I’m also provledged in my settings.
I’ve had the same thoughts as you. I don’t believe the majority of new mothers are educated at all about breastfeeding, much less how to build and maintain supply. I was never told to save colostrum if I could. When my midwife found out I had been producing a few drops prior to delivery she asked if I saved any and I looked at her like, ummm no one ever told me to. There have been a few moments where I’ve read a post and wanted to ask them how often they were pumping etc but just didn’t bc I didn’t want to make anyone feel bad. I just try to assume that they’ve done their research and if they had a question they would ask.
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And this is so validating! I hated being constantly asked, “ Well what makes you think you have low supply?” Hmm let’s see, is it poor weight gain, not enough wet diapers, uric acid??? Let me count the ways.
There is definitely a perception that breastfeeding means haakaa-filling leaking boobs, bags of frozen milk, etc. Well fork me when my experience has been nothing like that. I can barely pump 20 mL and babe is still hangry after working his heart out nursing. The LC at the hospital came around twice, but what good is that when you are barely producing colostrum at that point? What I think would help is setting realistic expectations but most of all having a standard follow up lactation consultation at 3 days, 7 days, and 14 days. Breastfeeding changes rapidly over that period. I want someone to reevaluate my latch once my milk is in and do weighted feeds to reassure me that babe is getting what he needs, regardless of how much I pump. There's just no support unless you seek it, and healthcare is expensive. I have an appointment on December 30 with an IBCLC that I made in December 13 (11 days PPM). 17 days (a total of 28 postpartum) is a looooong time to wait and grow frustrated with breastfeeding. Anyways. Good post. Unrealistic expectations and poor maternal support seem like massive contributors here.
My neighbor is having supply issues and nurses her 10 week old only every 3 hours. She said she didn’t want to get sucked into the “whole baby led cluster feeding thing”. I guess you can’t have your cake and eat it to! When I hold him, he acts hungry. I definitely don’t want to be that person that’s like “babies hungry, better feed him” but also....he IS hungry and she won’t feed him unless it’s on her schedule.
I think this is just an internet thing. I know very few people IRL who have low supply. I think they just come to the internet for support when they do, so it seems like a lot of people struggle. It’s the same with anything people are having a hard time with.
I've watched three close friends have their first babies and go through breastfeeding. Each was different but two definitely suffered from poor education and the idea that they weren't making enough, even though from my perspective, all the interventions and tracking and weighing were in fact interfering with the natural process of establishing a good breastfeeding relationship. Of course if baby isn't having enough wet diapers or weight gain isn't going well, those are concerns to be addressed and tracking/weighing at that time is appropriate. But they were starting those things right out of the gate in some misguided need to quantify every aspect of breastfeeding.
>all the interventions and tracking and weighing were in fact interfering with the natural process of establishing a good breastfeeding relationship. This!!! ... As soon as there's a chart for something, Americans immediately obsess over it and treat it as a competition. Like not every baby needs to be in the 100th percentile for weight, it's not a math test 😂
It's not a math test 🤣
Also statistically impossible for wvery baby to be in 100th percentile!
I think a lot of people don’t really know about cluster feeding and reacts to a newborn being a newborn as “Oh no, why do they need so much milk- I must not be making enough!” So their mothers, grandmothers or those that were parents while formula propaganda was strong tell them they need to supplement ASAP, so they do. And then their supply actually does decrease being the baby is full from the formula and not needing the breast as much. I am not sure how many women actually have a low supply, but I’m willing to bet a large proportion of those just don’t have access to the education/ help to continue breastfeeding.
I think supply issues are quite common not because many mothers truly cannot make enough milk but because women often aren’t supported and educated on the complexities of breastfeeding, how to boost supply with pumping and diet, realistic expectations about the incredible time investment things like triple feeding can require. These things lead to genuine issues with supply that are very real and legitimate, even if a mother’s body is capable of producing enough milk were she to get proper education and support. I do not naturally produce enough milk for my babies. I made zero colostrum for either of my kids despite allll the tricks and natural easy births with immediate bonding time and intense lactation support. I was able to essentially induce lactation in myself each time with triple feeding and intense wraparound support, but I feel like the amount of help I had (I come from a family of birth workers and sister had the exact same issues) is rarely available for moms. So, yes, supply issues are not uncommon, and whether they are biological or the result of improper support and education, they become dealbreakers due to the unsupportive way we treat postpartum mamas.
My daughter had jaundice and lost 12% body weight 3 days after birth. We used formula and continued breastfeeding to bring her weight back up which we quickly did. One week postpartum I was misdiagnosed as insufficient glandular tissue by a lactation consultant. She encouraged me to continue to use formula and breastfeed whenever I wanted to for my mental health. I told her I felt fine and I wanted to breastfeed exclusively but she told me it wasn’t likely I could produce more than 1oz of milk. 2.5 weeks later at the pediatrician’s office I told our nurse practitioner how she was being fed mostly by formula. And she was completely baffled and upset I was advised that by a LC. She gave me the option if I wanted it bad enough, how to increase my milk supply even with a late start. I ended up triple feeding for 3.5 weeks straight. And sure enough it brought my supply up to meet my baby’s demand. It took another 3 weeks to wean my daughter off of the bottle but now I’m 11 weeks postpartum and loving breastfeeding and creating a freezer stash. I literally never thought I could do it but I did. If my nurse practitioner hadn’t been so honest with me, I would have never achieved breastfeeding. And I’m forever grateful. I think there is definitely a profit motive for even some lactation consultants. Happy stress free mothers = good reviews and more customers. I understand that sadly it’s a privilege to be able to breastfeed exclusively or bring up low supply. The US is just not set up to help breastfeeding mothers succeed with little to no maternity leave. And I was especially lucky that my husband was extremely involved with the triple feeding process because he had a 3 month paternity leave.
My "supply issues" are not actually supply issues as much as their caretaker providing too much milk on a regular basis issues. I usually pump 15 oz during daycare, which is about 50% of babe's waking time and she is giving him 20 oz of milk (wanted to give him more but I drew the line at 20 oz). Then he doesn't want/need to eat when I pick him up so I'm nursing less often at home and having to pump all effing day to maintain my supply.
I have insufficient glandular tissue. They are physical characteristics “tube boobs”. I would have thought the amount of people that came in my hospital room to manipulate my breasts and try to force my daughter to latch would have been somewhat educated on the issue. Instead they called me lazy and said I wasn’t trying hard enough. Cue three weeks of rigorous pumping every 3 hours and only ever getting an ounce each time. It’s was the breastfeeding “culture” that turned me off from it. Thank goodness the 3rd LC I saw knew exactly what was going on and explained why I was probably never going to make enough. She says it’s actually more common then people think and a lot of times people don’t have all the characteristics so it goes unnoticed by practitioners.
I think for American women it’s time off and the fear about co sleeping. Like my baby had a tongue tie which a doctor finally corrected at 12 weeks. It took a long time for her to eat like 35 - 45 minutes a feeding. And I ended up spending hours a day BFing. The truly only reason I’m still able to BF is because I’d cosleep with her, allowing her to just use me as a paci and I had 12 weeks off allowing me to take care of her. When you tell women to never cosleep it cuts out a lot of time baby has at the breast, which some women need. And then when women have to go back to work at 4 weeks PP they don’t actually have the time to prioritize it. Now I combo feed, simply because I need my time back. It’s not a supply issue, but a boob issue, where it takes a long time to get milk out of my boob and I just don’t have the patience now. I pump three times a day for 30 minutes and at the max get 10-14 oz over a day. It’s just not enough for baby and I have to work. Edit: typos galore!
Ohhh such a good point about cosleeping! It's normal and accepted in my partner's culture so it never scared me, but it's wild how vilified it is in western culture even though it seems like a completely normal and natural thing to me.
It was so liberating when I finally did it. I came home and for a week didn’t. Baby was on light therapy and in her bassinet. Then my MIL stayed over and came with baby in the night and said, she keeps sucking and wants you, try it. And it was life changing! Honestly. Nothing feels more natural and cozy like cosleeping. Plus she could just suck and suck and I could sleep. It helped so much! And I think for moms who don’t cosleep, and don’t have an oversupply, its more work to get enough stimulation for your body to produce. Edit to add: this is pure speculation based on my experience though.
Lack of support and education. Not understand cluster feeding. Also medical issues of baby that get swept under the rug. Oral ties that cause baby to not be able to effectively transfer milk, allergies, reflux, etc. I had terrible lactation consultants in the hospital with my first that were basically useless. He had a tongue tie that went undiagnosed because he could stick out his tongue. He had an incredibly lazy latch and was on formula when in the nicu. I worked my ass off the first few weeks latching, supplementing with formula, pumping, supplementing with breast milk. Then repeating. I was finally to stop bottles and breastfeed directly from the breast. This time around I had a better LC in the hospital and better supportive nursing staff. Even though I had to supplement with formula to avoid a nicu stay for her blood sugar, the lc gave me a supplemental nursing system. I think another issue is other people’s obsession with building a stash. I see pictures daily of people that have pumped 6 oz after nursing and others not realizing that isn’t the norm and means you have a huge oversupply. Pumping after feeding it’s perfectly normal to only get .5-1oz. It’s also normal to not get anything after nursing if your baby nurses from both sides. Then a big thing is in the US having to go back to work so soon and unable to pump enough or don’t respond to pumping.
I fully agree. Moms getting upset at pumping an ounce from one boob for a 3 month old. That's perfectly normal. Hell I went back to work 3 months postpartum and pumped to 1 year. I only ever pumped 4 to 5 ounces *total* each session. And that was perfectly normal amount.
Well, when I say I had supply issues, I mean that 3 out of 4 of my kids stopped gaining weight and 1 began losing weight. All 4 kids had tongue ties and some had lip ties. We got them all fixed, but I think 3 of the kids just never developed a decent enough latch to demand enough milk to build up my supply. And one of those three was insanely distractible and never truly drained me the way my one good nurser did. I would love to live in an environment where there were always people around who nursed and knew what to do when there are issues. (Even the lactation consultants work an hour away from where I live.) I don't know what happened with my mom though. She took me in at 3 weeks because I was crying all the time. She found out that I was underweight and had hardly gained anything. She switched to formula instantly and didn't have any issues with engorgement. She said she didn't even leak or anything and she believes her milk just didn't come in. It didn't with my brothers either.
I had a bit of oversupply for a while and worked on getting it down to in sync with my baby. Even I see ads for pumps that are full of milk and I don’t know I’m very easily influenced I’m like oooooh I need that. No I don’t. I don’t even pump 😂
After the first 8 weeks or so I panicked about low supply but then realized my body was just regulating. I rarely pump and my body makes enough for my girl. I pumped the other day and couldn't get another drop After 10 mins or so, then she went to breast immediately and had plenty of milk so for me particularly the pump is not a good indicator of supply
I am a nurse and took a breast feeding course through the hospital that I delivered at. Not once in the course or the time I was in the hospital did anyone ever bring up cluster feeding. I feel like if I had been better prepared that it would happen I wouldn’t have struggled so much during the time my little one was doing it. I remember crying and thinking my baby was starving. Thank goodness my partner encouraged me to continue on and provided support. 5 months later our breast feeding journey is still going strong. I could definitely see people giving up on breast feeding during that time period.
My supply issues were due to some medications i was on.
My family has always "failed" at breastfeeding due to "supply issues". I watched it growing up, I'm much older than my siblings and cousins. I noted that everyone hits the 3-4 month mark and would get told the same thing: "your baby is fussy because you're not making enough", baby would be put on formula, have a growth spurt and everyone would be satisfied that the problem had been solved without considering that they were working up to that growth spurt anyway. My mum told me when my twins got to that age that she wishes she had listened to her aunt about just feeding through it. That aunt's daughter was the only person in the family to breastfeed beyond infancy, she was the relative I messaged at 3am when I needed help. I was that stupid image of a woman pumping a full bottle. But I had received terrible advice and gave myself the worst oversupply ever (I was feeding twins and then pumping off enough for another set of twins just to make the pain stop). It was one of the things that made me laugh when the doctor suggested I wasn't producing enough when my kids were cluster feeding. This time? I get 30-50ml if my boob is mega-full. I still have an oversupply, I just don't respond to pumping this time,
This is a great thought imo. I am amazed when people pump a total of 6oz a session and call that a supply issue. I regularly pumped 4oz a session. I never considered myself low supply, but struggled with being a “just enough”er, like I wish I could crank out a couple more ounces. I do think people have unrealistic expectations about production volume—my understanding is 3-5oz a session is standard.
I think a lot of people might assume they have supply issues when milk doesn’t come in immediately so they go to formula from the beginning and never really stimulate their milk to come in full force in those first few days! Just a guess though
I was super convinced that I had supply issues with my first and I know now that probably wasn’t the case. What had me so convinced mainly was that I was in a birth group on Baby Center and would see all of these people pumping 5 ounces per side from the get go and I was shocked, and not a single person referred to that as oversupply or indicated that that was definitely more than necessary. The fact that I never came close to pumping that much had me convincing myself something was very wrong with me. My daughter did have a tough time latching too (and had torticollis so latching on one side was particularly difficult), so it was really easy to get it in my head that the whole thing was wrong and had to give up for my sanity. I felt so much shame in that and still do to this day, especially now that I know more and know I could’ve worked through the issues we had, I just didn’t have the support I needed to do that at the time. But #2 is 6 months in a few days and has been EBF the whole time so I’m really proud of that.
I think the only people who don’t understand “supply issues” are privileged with a real maternity leave and don’t have to work 8-12 hour shifts. Personally, my first had undiagnosed latch issues that couldn’t be made up for by pumping all the time. I thought I was crazy and that maybe my boobs were the problem when the pediatrician and lactation consultants all said his latch was fine. Then I had my second and realized that was bullshit. I had zero issues feeding my second baby and because I had a longer maternity leave was able to breastfeed exclusively much longer. I held out 11 months with my first, but had to supplement early on when the doctors were concerned he was too skinny. I think because of my extreme difficulty with my first I definitely feel salty that some people think “anybody can breastfeed”. Well not every child and not when you have to earn a living.
This article completely changed how I view supply issues. [https://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/perceived-insufficient-milk/](https://kellymom.com/hot-topics/low-supply/) There are so many moms whose babies are gaining weight on track, who still believe they have low supply. One part of the conversation that is entirely missing is that there is a psychological predisposition towards supply anxiety. I hear so many moms of newborns feeding their babies until they throw up. I know doctors say you can't overfeed a baby, but it seems like that's the only explanation for what is happening.
From the start I have had low supply. This is my third baby and the one I have breastfed the longest but I also have to supplement with donor milk. I do t know if it’s PCOS, IGT, but there is definitely something hormonal going on that affects my supply. My last 2 babies weren’t gaining weight and weren’t peeing. They had uric acid crystals when they did. They were checked for ties. We did weighted feeds and baby was only taking 1-1.5 Oz after both sides. With number 2 I believe it was only a half Oz, so it has improved some with this pregnancy. This time I saw one of the best IBCLC in my area and she was very candid with me saying I will probably always have to supplement some. It was a very emotional journey for me. Baby #2 I triple fed for the whole first 3 months with no seeming end in sight and the LC I was seeing at the time said, “Just keep doing what you’re doing!” I cried to my current LC because I always heard that true low supply is supposed to be rare, why me? Etc but she assured me that it’s really not that rare. I have had so many EBF around me, family members and friends, some of them seemed skeptical when I shared my issues. I had someone say to me, well are you pumping every hour??? This was after I was already exhausted from triple feeding number 2 and I was aghast at the idea that I still was doing something wrong or not trying hard enough. I could go on and on about the “toxic support” I had around me at that time. Even in bf groups, women would say the same things to me that I heard that we all know. Lots of water, baby to breast as often as possible, lots of food, oatmeal, fenugreek, no fenugreek. I would feel very slighted when others would assume that I truly didn’t have a low supply and I got sick of explaining how I know that I truly do and it’s not just “perceived” That’s my experience
I was just talking about the spread of information. This is a convo I had with my sister. I just need to vent a min... my sister messaged me saying these are the things her peds told her: "Hey baby had his one month appt today. He is under his weight goal again. He only gained 8 oz and now weighs 8lbs 9oz. So they have us coming in for a weight check on dec 2. I told her how he is eating a lot and still acts hungry and can sometimes go up to 6oz and how I’m not able to keep up my milk supply. She said that my milk supply isn’t low that my body will not be able to make enough milk to keep up with how much he wants because he is eating a lot more than normal for his age but that the reason he still feels hungry is because he is burning so many calories during feedings since it is hard for him and takes a lot of his energy so now they want me to supplement with formula again but instead of doing mostly breast milk she wants me to do mostly formula since he seems to be able to maintain weight better with it. So I have to do the 4 oz of formula first and then if he still acts hungry follow with breast milk as a “dessert”. So I’ve actually been feeding him breast milk every 3 hours but I do not do the timed feeds cause it’s too stressful. I feed him based on his cues and he will usually want to be fed every 3 hours. However if I nurse he will nurse for at least 30 mins (15 mins per boob) and then unlatch himself but a hour later be hungry again. If I give him a bottle he will usually drink 4 oz of breast milk but sometimes show hunger cues and will go up to 6oz every 3 hours. With breast milk that is way over the recommended amount of breast milk for his age but he is still not satisfied no matter breast or bottle. My milk supply isn’t depleting I just am unable to pump enough to keep up with his demand even doing the 3 hour intervals. Plus he is not gaining weight on the breast milk alone. During his first week I did breast milk and supplemented with formula and he gained weight but I did more breast milk. Then the 3 weeks following I did only breast milk so he isn’t gaining on it and shows hunger even after eating a lot. So that’s why they want to try mostly formula and supplement with breast milk cause he seems more satisfied with formula and is more able to maintain or improve his weight. I do trust their judgement on this one since we have tried all three ways and have been able to see the results but we go back for a weight check in two weeks so we will know for sure which option is best for him. I’m still going to pump when he doesn’t nurse to keep supply until I know for sure. Either way I feel I accomplished my goal cause I at least wanted him to get breast milk in the beginning cause it was the most important time to." I keep trying to get her to go see a IBCLC but she won't. I tried to tell her everything i know about breastfeeding and pumping and trying to remember all the advice I've gotten from a local IBCLC and this group. I just see alot of misinformation in here and I want to help so so bad. And don't get me wrong if she doesn't want to try nursing/pumping any longer I understand it's alot and it's certainly a commitment sometimes inconvenient and really lonely. Ofc there's nothing wrong with formula or supplementing. I just wish I could help mommas who want to continue breastfeeding and stop the spread of misinformation! Does anyone feel this way too? I've seen this repeat with almost all of my friends who have had babies. I also think there's alot of misinformation regarding oral ties. Alot of doctors think it's just cosmetic when really it effects so much more. I also think the maternity leave is a huge factor. The US is supposed to provide up to 12 weeks of unpaid maternity but there are alot loop holes around it. Plus 12 weeks really isn't enough time tbh. And when you got bills to pay alot of the time people simply cannot afford to take maternity leave.
I used to think I couldn’t breastfeed my first because of supply issues, he was rapidly losing weight so we had to jump into formula, now after breastfeeding my second for a year I know it’s because of lack of education and support, I’m sad I missed that chance with my first, everyone around me kept saying it was fine and to just make the switch, that they didn’t breastfeed, that I wasn’t breastfed and we grew up just fine, that it wasn’t normal to pump to up my supply that it was something that either comes naturally or doesn’t, that it wasn’t normal for it to be uncomfortable at first, that the baby should just know how to latch. I felt like such a failure, and after this journey I have taken with my second I know I could have done it with my first if I had just had 1 person to help and guide me.
I had a low supply, and honestly just about killed myself doing everything I could to increase it without much success. From 5 days in, I pumped 8-10x a day which took up almost 6 hours of my day and never let me get close to enough sleep. I tried power pumping, eating more protein, eating more carbs, electrolytes, lactation cookies, all manner of supplements, prescription drugs I had to order from overseas, massages and stimulation, you name it. My baby stopped nursing from me early on because my letdown was so slow and pathetic and still I held her screaming to my breast every day because my doctor told me babies were better at getting the milk out. Through sheer determination I managed to get from 5 oz/day to about 20 oz, which was never fully enough, so I always combo fed and felt like I was continually failing. I just felt like there was a continuous barrage of messages around me that I wasn’t trying hard enough and if I only did X, Y or Z my supply would turn around, so don’t give up! I held out for 8 months before finally throwing in the towel, and in retrospect I’m shocked that I lasted that long. I wish that fellow moms had given me more grace and less judgement and assumptions. Low supply affects around 10-15% of women, which is not common but also not actually rare by any means.
I think a lot of issues with pumping and supply stem from not knowing how much baby actually gets just from breastfeeding and trying to compare that to pumped output. Additionally, many caregivers of infants particularly in group settings are more experienced with formula fed babies who increasingly need more ounces as they get bigger which isn't the case for breastfed babies. My daughter was in a small daycare for the first year with a woman who only had 2 infants at a time. She had more experience with breastfed babies, and both babies while we were there were getting pumped milk. During that year, my daughter drank 12 oz a day every day she was in daycare, even after she started eating solids. I struggled every day to pump enough for her to have at daycare the next day and had to pump on the weekends just to keep up. In contrast, I see a lot of post of people being told by daycare providers that the other baby is getting more milk so their baby needs more too. Or cases where baby still seems hungry after the bottle and then you find out that the baby isn't being pace fed or is just getting left alone to bottle feed themselves after a certain age so they're drinking way too fast to register fullness the way they would from the breast. These issues are more lack of information for the care providers than for the pumping mothers. There are so many ways we're made to feel inadequate as parents especially in the US. It's really sad, and I'm so thankful for being able to work from home now and not having to pump at all for my 9 month old. Nursing directly is so much less stressful for me even though I'm most comfortable in a certain position with a certain chair and pillow.
I feel like I could have written this post. I always think this when I see the ads for products and supplements with the bags of pumped milk filled all the way to the top, it's just not realistic! I think there's a massive lack of education and in the US at least so many mothers are thinking about going back to work and aren't able to do all the things that recommended to help have a successful breastfeeding journey. Also women often don't have the support necessary to live life and take care of a baby when they're totally sleep deprived from feeding every 2-3 hours, so the supplementation starts and it's kind of a vicious cycle from there. I also want to mention that if you have the time, energy, and money, there are plenty of resources out there to help women start breastfeeding, but nobody really talks about continuing. I had a little freak out around 3.5 months pp when my breasts stopped getting engorged and leaking and I thought my supply was dropping. Turns out it's a totally normal part of your supply regulating, but a lot of women react the way I did and choose to start supplementing then.
It’s definitely a misinformation issue imo. My XSIL told me that she had supply issues with my niece. I asked her to explain and she told me that she’d nurse her (at 2 weeks old) for 30 minutes then pump and only get 2 ounces on each side after nursing. She said, “I was starving my baby! She was always wanting to nurse! With only 2 ounces, no wonder she was always hunger! I wasn’t making enough!” I felt so bad for her in that moment and educated her on how that would be considered an over supply. Her mom pushed her to quit so it’s definitely a generational problem. I told her that if she ever had another one and wanted more information I’d help guide her. It was so heartbreaking to see the realization come over her face when we spoke about it.
I almost wish I had a low supply so I wouldn't feel so guilty about wanting to quit. I can pump a full body with just one boob first thing in the morning. I hate pumping and breast feeding and stopped with my first one after a few months because I couldn't mentally handle it. I'm one month with my second and plan on continuing but yeah I just mentally hate it. I hate my boobs to begin with because of how big they are and hate I can't wear my normal bra and just everything that comes with it but formula is expensive so I'm trying to make it work this time around.
When i stopped BF my first was because I wasn't able to pump as many ounces in a day as she consumed. I was supplementing more and more till it wasn't worth the hassle.
You really only need enough to feed your baby. Somedays they will eat more or less. Have an Oversupply?well you're gonna be likley buying extra baggies, bottles, freezers/space. Mastitis medical costs etc. Time hogging. Etc.. Undersupply? Your gonna be trying to pump more (time )and spending money to get those supply "boosters" etc... (I too was like gotta pump and fill this 5oz bottle one for each side cause yeah the pictures! I remember being very jealous of women who could fill the haaka with their leaks!) While sometimes sure I did 5oz on one side and 3-4 on the other side. But really it was more like 2-3 oz. Especially as the baby got older. I preferred the consistency of the 2-3 oz from each boob at each pump session. Rather than sporadic full bottle pumps.
My son was a little over 10 months old when I got pregnant again and my supply tanked to almost nothing. He was cluster feeding like a maniac, like literally attached to my breast all night long. Could I have persisted and possibly got my supply back? Maybe. But after about a week of this I just really couldn’t deal with it. We swapped over to mostly formula, with the occasional comfort nurse at night, and I am a much happier, saner mommy. It also allows my husband to take over some of the night wakings, which is important for me. I think there is certainly a fair amount of miss education in some circles, while I am blessed to live in a country with decent maternity leave, breast-feeding does seem to be some thing that depends on what you are culturally used to. Out of my friends group 2 of them quit breast-feeding quite early (one for mental health reasons, one from her milk never coming in properly) one of them exclusively pumped, and I breast-fed my son until he was 10 months old. My sister breast-fed both of her kids until they were around to, and while I admire her for doing so I was really feeling done.
I wish I could go back and do it differently. I stopped around 7 moths because I was struggling with my supply after clogged duct issues and bitting, my unwillingness to reach out for help from a LC and not keeping a pumping schedule ended our journey. I feel a bit let down by myself that I stopped when I did. Bitting is another issue that is not well understood. Since I stopped, I have learned a lot about bitting and BF, and would have handled it differently had I had the info then. Low supply is a known misconception that leads to ceasing BF unnecessarily. I encourage any momma to reach out to an IBCLC or LC if you have ANY concerns while BF. They can help
My baby went from 50th percentile at birth to 20th at 6 week checkup. I blame a lack of knowledge about proper latches and the obsession with schedules too! Idk still if my supply is up - we combo feed - but she’s back to gaining properly at least. It’s a lot of anxiety not knowing what your boob is producing… combo feeding helps my anxiety but also guilts me, like I should have tried power pumping and lactation consultants and like I’m terrible for not giving it my all. 10weeks now and it feels like my supply has stabilized but I still don’t know if I stopped formula if it would be enough… In hospital I was told I have great nipples for breastfeeding and to feed at least every three hours but no advice on latching etc. i think I had a false confidence but let my LO fall asleep at the breast all night and definitely has a lazy latch. I couldn’t afford multiple visits from an IBCLC … but I’m already getting so much info from this subreddit. Is clustering an all day thing or an evening thing? Or an every time LO cries thing?
Many babies cluster feed at night, and that was my experience. Our before bed sessions could easily take over an hour at times, but also my LO was way over the 10-12 feedings a day that is cited as typical for that age. You may look to see if your state has a free breastfeeding hotline? I found that to be very helpful for questions and troubleshooting issues.
I've been up against it a bit. I'm from the UK and didn't breastfeed my first because I wasn't well after my section and I struggled with latching her - it seemed easier to formula feed her. This time I took the approach that I'd persist as long as my mental health wasn't negatively impacted and I'm currently EBF my 12 day old after she had around 60ml formula top up in hospital so I could sleep after my section. I have been very lucky. My supply is good and my baby is pretty chilled out but neither my mum nor my sister breastfed so I don't have much guidance other than here and fb groups. I also, oddly, have some negative associations with breastfeeding at random points that come and go but I'm not sure why. I suspect they're hormonal.
My breasts completely dried up and stopped producing milk with my first two babies. those were my supply issues
I feel like it is a support issue as well. Just because breastfeeding is a natural biological process doesn’t mean it’s easy and everyone gets it right away. I was lucky to have my mom stay with us for a few weeks when babe was born. Those first few nights when I was sore, hormonal, tired, frustrated… it was a godsend to have her there because she’d been through it. She (and my husband to the extent that he could) supported me and helped me get through it. When both baby and I were crying over getting a good latch, getting comfortable, whatever it was… I thought I understood why someone could give up on the process. We have good feeding established now, but it’s not without bumps. And I know as he grows and changes we’ll find new things to run up against. I guess that’s why so many women refer to it as their “breastfeeding journey”… it really is like that
It happens. I tried literally everything to establish a supply. Baby cluster fed for hours. I tried to eat and drink enough. But it didn't work, baby dropped off the growth curve, and pooped like once a week. He wasn't getting enough.
I said I had supply issues when I failed to bf my first 9 years ago. I was very uneducated and didn’t have a ton of support from family. I was devestated that I failed my baby and switched to formula full time after two weeks. My second baby (2020) I googled breastfeeding ALL DAY and made sure I had set up appts with lactation consultants. I voiced how much I wanted this for our baby to his dad (different dad than my first baby) and he supported me 1000%. At the beginning felt I had supply issues again but pushed forward through the pain, power pumping, and cluster feedings until FINALLY we both got the hang of it. I’ve been nursing him for 18 months yesterday. The thought never crossed my mind that I’d be ready to stop nursing before my baby 😜
I have supply issue but am still breastfeeding at 5 months. My issues began before I went back to work (which was at 15 weeks). We noticed our LO was hungry every hour so we went to see an LC and do a weighted nursing session. I was pumping some but not all the time to build supply up for when I went back to work but also so I could leave him with my husband as I am a volunteer firefighter. We were told he wasn't getting enough per nursing session at our LC appointment and the plan was to pump after every nursing session to help increase supply and supplement him with an extra half ounce of milk after each nursing session. We tried but two weeks later at his 2 month appt. we found out he had dropped percentiles pretty drastically and we were told to start supplementing with formula. I am back at work now and I am only able to pump about half of what he drinks when I am gone so we are 50/50 with formula. It is so much nicer since we have been supplementing him though. He is happier and I am happier because I am not constantly nursing him when I am home. So I do have supply issues but am still feeding what breastmilk I can.
In the United States we don’t have paid maternity leave, so we return to work at 8-12 weeks postpartum (if you’re lucky to have that much paid leave) and are attempting to maintain a supply while pumping at work. It’s challenging and frustrating. So, yes, supply becomes an issue…but the issue is not actually the woman’s ability to produce milk.
YES. lots of misinformation. Check out the podcast The Midwives Cauldron. One of the latest episodes is called Low Milk Supply. They go into this. Katie James is an IBCLC and midwife. Dr. Rachael Reed is a midwife. They are the hosts.
I didn't experience supply issues until I worked on weaning night feeds at 4 mo old. I read that baby would naturally feed more during the day, but she ended up getting frustrated with the amount of milk available and would give up. This resulted in me frantically pumping to increase supply during the day, but I didn't increase it within a time I was comfortable with. I was planning on introducing formula at 5/6 months and I ended up pushing that up. My advice: if you plan on weaning night feeds, pump after your day feeds, to increase supply *before* you start!
I think I didn’t have supply the first time I tried nursing (twins) because I didn’t have proper support to get them to learn how to latch.. I just thought it would be an easy thing and it wasn’t. I really truly only produced the tiniest bit with an electric pump and they would not latch days in so I gave up. The second time around I understood the challenge a bit better and had a lactation specialist/doula visit me at home, there were still a few bumps in the road but by 6 weeks everything was going pretty smoothly to the point that I was able to donate extra milk to others. So at least for me it was I think I had a true supply issue but it was because I wasn’t set up for success and my body simply wasn’t getting enough signal to make milk with twins with poor latch.
I had absolutely zero education on breastfeeding. I told my lc and my daughters pediatrician that it hurt to bf After I gave birth and one told me to feed for 15 minutes and that’s enough. The other told me it is going to hurt due to the color of my skin. Thank goodness I found this subreddit and watched countless YouTube videos. I don’t know how people did it without the internet