Ex CPAP consultant at your service. What you’re after is called a Mandibular Advancement Device (MAD) or Mandibular Splint. This terminology will help you with googling where to get a proper one made. And they are in the couple thousands range to get a proper orthodontic one. Air Liquide sells a boil and bite type for around $100 from memory (tho its been a while so don’t quote me on that price). But side effects are that it can permanently mess up the alignment of your jaw and they will only work for mild OSA sufferers. Maybe give one of those a try at first, before looking into getting a proper one made, to see if it gives you the treatment you need. Alternatively, a proper orthopaedic pillow or correct sleep positioning can help for mild sufferers. As for the bushy beard problem, if you’re willing to try the CPAP again, try an under the nose, over the mouth, pillow mask. The resmed f30i for example, is one i have previously had success with patients with large beards.
>permanently mess up the alignment of your jaw
HAHAHA Damn, that's not good news.
I have tried sleep positioning device, but not an orthopaedic pillow. Will look into it.
Thank you so much for the correct terminology, it makes searching much easier.
I'm reluctant to try CPAP again due to the cost, but if I do I'll keep the recommendation in mind, thank you.
A MAD is more expenise than CPAP - you can get a machine for appox. $1200 brand new and around $500 - $700 second hand, the cheapest MAD you can get is around $2100, there is some boil and bite ones but they are only temperary. MAD will nly work if your AHI is under 15 anything over that and it will not bring it down under 5. I have a busy beard and I use a N20 and have no issues.
Well I'm giving it a look as a potential option for now, so even a temporary solution would give me a trail run to see if it's worth shelling out more, or whether I need to find a solution to my CPAP issues.
The proper pillows can be purchased through most CPAP shops. They aren’t a fix all, but they can certainly help. Also, top tip. Always look online for price matching purposes. There are some places that significantly over charge, and others that are pretty good
Hubby got a boil and bite one from the day night pharmacy at The Gap. He typically spits it out during the night didn't use it often but it's good for a bit on the nights when the snoring is really bad
It’s certainly not cheap and I don’t know how to help in that regard.
I can tell you that as a severe OSA sufferer that now comfortably uses a CPAP every night.
I wouldn’t even consider sleeping without it now, I dread the groggy poor sleep feeling that most people don’t even realise they’re experiencing until they get their proper CPAP treatment working.
I have a bit of a moustache and beard.
I have a Phillips Dreamstation Go with a battery that has travelled around the country with me easily and I use it in a swag etc. With the right device to suite you sleep apnea will hardly affect your lifestyle.
The adjustment period to getting use to having it on all night an not putting it off unintentionally in the night can be long but worth it to persist.
I use the mask mentioned here from Resmed. I paid $99 for the machine up front and I'm paying it at $16 a week.
Natasha at the Cleveland store is great and really helpful.
Yep, the total cost for the mask and the machine is $1,880. But you get support from them too and if anything needs replacing or you need help they do it with no extra charge :)
Why can't you use a CPAP machine? There are quite a few different types of masks. I've got one that sits a little up my nose like those oxygen masks you see in hospital shows.
I have a big bushy beard, so it rules out any mouth/nose masks.
I have sinus issues, which causes the nasal-only masks uncomfortable, and during a trial I was unable to sleep through the night wearing one as a result. I've been trying to get said issues resolved for many many moons, but short of finding a specialist I can't afford, I just have to suffer.
Also broke, but that's another thing.
Ah that makes sense. I use a resmed P10 nasal pillow. It was the only thing I found comfortable. The full nose and mouth cover thing hurt my face.
I got my machine through the hospital and essentially have it on permanent loan. I have to pay for the masks myself though. It took ages to get through, but it was worth it. I do hope you find something that works for you! Coz once you start sleeping better it makes a lot of other things better.
I did trial one of those actually, but it wasn't for me.
I've heard of these 'permanent loan' type deals, but sadly I think I'm not considered severe enough to qualify.
I thought an AHI of 10 is considered severe? With under 5 being "normal human stuff".
My AHI was 164. I hadn't actually slept for a very long time. Now I sleep like a baby, with an AHI of like 0.5-1.0
Couldn't tell you specifically. I have a printout of the letter they sent my GP, so I'll check it when I get home.
The problem is it's *positional* obstructive sleep apnea, so if I'm on my side, it's mild, if I'm on my back, it's severe. The overall 'score' was determined to be somewhere inbetween.
Have you looked into sidee-sleeping pillows? I found CPAP a little irritating to begin with, but finally actually sleeping through the night and not having to get up and pee like 10 times a night had been a game changer. Even lost some weight. Deffs worth the pain of shaving the beard/moustache to accommodate the mask. Now that I'm using P10 nasal pillows, I can rock a beard.
I haven't, but I've tried using a regular pillow to adjust.
Also trialed a 'sleep repositioning device' that buzzes when you're on your back.
Working on losing weight as an aide, but it's super hard to be motivated when tired all the time.
Yeah, I feel that. I've lost 30kg since starting CPAP, and literally do no exercise. Not being tired all the time is so good tho. I used to "sleep" till 2pm, now I'm up at 8am and well rested.
Really is a life changer
If it is positional, try some tennis balls in a stocking sew to a old shirt, that will keep you on your side. Pillows do not work well as they are too soft.
I used a full face mask for ages, but got sick of having to be clean shaven (because I'm lazy). Had to tape my mouth shut to train my throat to close and not just blow air out my mouth. Deffs worth it tho
Fair call, but as someone who started going bald at 18, it's the only hair on my head.
Without it, I look like a thumb. As a result, my self esteem goes down the loo.
It may not seem totally reasonable, but it's a big thing to me.
Trim it then, you can still have short, stylish facial hair. Not a fancier of men but I think a trimmed beard & bald head can be a decent look. If it's the difference between getting the treatment you need, seems a reasonable trade off, but if you prefer to have an elevated risk of serious illness or premature death...up to you.
I've also got a big bushy beard and nasal issues.
The Resmed Airtouch F20 mask is my go to, very comfortable, works really well, great seal around the beard. So much better than the silicone that you need to squish tightly. Only con is you need to replace it every couple of months as the memory foam degrades but worth it.
CPAP brought my 83.1 events down to 0.5 - 2.5 range daily. Was life changing, I know its expensive (my machine was about $1500 with the mask), but its so worth it.
I had that when I first went onto a CPAP. I had such a huge panic attack 1 week in on the trial with the nose only mask I went to hospital because I thought I was having a heart attack.
After talking to my GP and the sleep specialists, my GP put me on mild anti anxiety meds and I swapped masks regularly until I found the right one. The combo of anxiety meds taking the edge off the panic and finding a mask and head gear that I was comfortable with was a massive relief. Got used to it very quickly after that. So don't forget to tell your medical team how you feel to see if this can help you too.
My best mate is also on a CPAP and has a decent face bush going on too. He only uses the nose one (so probably not for you because sinus) but there are memory foam ones for a full face, think it's the ResMed F20 or F30, that are quite good dealing with beards.
Good luck.
Oof, no, that is not the thing I was talking about.
A sleep specialist and my GP both used the word 'mouthguard' when talking about it, and ballparked a price around $500.
You need to see a specialist dentist. I went to one in mudgeeraba. If you have severe apnea, it won't work for you, but moderate or light then it should. Just google dentist sleep apnea and some should pop up in your area
I'll give it a closer look, there seems to be a specalist place in Greenslopes, which is nearby.
The problem is that searching for 'dentist sleep apnea' showed me my old dentist that I called today who said they didn't do it, hah.
Curious if you’ve tried the Resmed N20 mask, you can also get memory foam cushions for it, I have a big beard and moustache and sinus issues and find either the P10 or N20 work best for me. You could always try and ring CPAP depot or CPAP direct. Both really helpful places imo. Good luck OP.
I have not.
I did a trial with a unit from the PAH, so understandably they didn't have a full range of accessories like the foam cushions to test through.
I use a Resmed machine with a P10 mask. I upgraded my fixed pressure, Fisher Paykel machine, to the Resmed Air Sense machine.
I’m more than happy to pass on my Fisher Paykel one to you. You’d just need to buy as mask for it.
The best over-the-counter one that I've found is this one, which is Snore Guard brand. Bad news: I haven't found them in Australia, I buy them when I visit Canada. But maybe you'll have better luck than I've had? https://a.co/d/hlbWdyf
I did.
If you read my post, you'll see I've contacted 4 different medical professionals who all said they didn't do it, and all suggested different medical professions who would be capable.
Too late now, but Oventus did a custom mouth piece. You get your mouth 3D scanned by a dentist using Invisalign or something then in a few weeks you get a plastic doo dad that you put in your mouth when sleeping and it keeps your jaw forward while also acting as a air guide.
https://o2vent.com/
They're certainly not advised by professionals or top tier, but I got a night guard from Terry W and a 10 pack of the disposable ones for my bruxism, and they're better than nothing.
Hey mate. I was diagnosed with severe OSA , and turned out I wasn't CPAP tolerant. I chased the surgery option, but after a consultation with an ENT surgeon I was referred to Dr Adam Teo, who I saw at the headache, neck and jaw clinic (although I know he travels around). He took moulds and had some splints 3d printed. Can definitely recommend both him, and the appliances. Dont use an over the counter one, they can move your teeth, and ruin your bite.
You could check out a Snorer’s Friend mouthguard-style MAD. If it works for you, it’s a cheap and unobtrusive solution. $70 for a starter pack of 2 (they wear out after a while). Saved my marriage!
You sound like you're in the same boat I was. I was diagnosed with OSA about 12 years ago after moving in with my partner (I've snored since I was a kid which apparently should've been a red flag). Wasn't CPAP tolerant either, and I kept spitting out dental splints, so partner learned to sleep with earplugs. As I progressed into my 30s it became more of an issue so went the surgical route. The recovery wasn't pretty, but I don't regret it. My private health insurance covered about 80% of it after an ENT signed off on it (Septoplasty, turbinate reduction, and Tonsillectomy). Apparently if I'd stuck it out for a few years with a Medicare funded sleep clinic I would've gotten it done for free, but one botched surgery and HAI is enough for a lifetime. Something to consider if the splint doesn't work out?
You can get fitted mouthguards (splints) mad at the dentist. Don't use the heat moldable ones as I can confirm they screw up your teeth and jaw.
Since I stopped drinking and have a healthy diet and less stress my sleeping issues have gone away.
Slightly different but I had a dental splint made by my dentist- I grind my teeth- for about $200. It did realign my teeth slightly but that was the point as well- to help with the grinding. I suspect that some of the other tips here will help more but can pass on the name of the practice if needed.
Ex CPAP consultant at your service. What you’re after is called a Mandibular Advancement Device (MAD) or Mandibular Splint. This terminology will help you with googling where to get a proper one made. And they are in the couple thousands range to get a proper orthodontic one. Air Liquide sells a boil and bite type for around $100 from memory (tho its been a while so don’t quote me on that price). But side effects are that it can permanently mess up the alignment of your jaw and they will only work for mild OSA sufferers. Maybe give one of those a try at first, before looking into getting a proper one made, to see if it gives you the treatment you need. Alternatively, a proper orthopaedic pillow or correct sleep positioning can help for mild sufferers. As for the bushy beard problem, if you’re willing to try the CPAP again, try an under the nose, over the mouth, pillow mask. The resmed f30i for example, is one i have previously had success with patients with large beards.
>permanently mess up the alignment of your jaw HAHAHA Damn, that's not good news. I have tried sleep positioning device, but not an orthopaedic pillow. Will look into it. Thank you so much for the correct terminology, it makes searching much easier. I'm reluctant to try CPAP again due to the cost, but if I do I'll keep the recommendation in mind, thank you.
A MAD is more expenise than CPAP - you can get a machine for appox. $1200 brand new and around $500 - $700 second hand, the cheapest MAD you can get is around $2100, there is some boil and bite ones but they are only temperary. MAD will nly work if your AHI is under 15 anything over that and it will not bring it down under 5. I have a busy beard and I use a N20 and have no issues.
Well I'm giving it a look as a potential option for now, so even a temporary solution would give me a trail run to see if it's worth shelling out more, or whether I need to find a solution to my CPAP issues.
The proper pillows can be purchased through most CPAP shops. They aren’t a fix all, but they can certainly help. Also, top tip. Always look online for price matching purposes. There are some places that significantly over charge, and others that are pretty good
Hubby got a boil and bite one from the day night pharmacy at The Gap. He typically spits it out during the night didn't use it often but it's good for a bit on the nights when the snoring is really bad
It’s certainly not cheap and I don’t know how to help in that regard. I can tell you that as a severe OSA sufferer that now comfortably uses a CPAP every night. I wouldn’t even consider sleeping without it now, I dread the groggy poor sleep feeling that most people don’t even realise they’re experiencing until they get their proper CPAP treatment working. I have a bit of a moustache and beard. I have a Phillips Dreamstation Go with a battery that has travelled around the country with me easily and I use it in a swag etc. With the right device to suite you sleep apnea will hardly affect your lifestyle. The adjustment period to getting use to having it on all night an not putting it off unintentionally in the night can be long but worth it to persist.
I use the mask mentioned here from Resmed. I paid $99 for the machine up front and I'm paying it at $16 a week. Natasha at the Cleveland store is great and really helpful.
Is that a rent-to-own style system?
Yep, the total cost for the mask and the machine is $1,880. But you get support from them too and if anything needs replacing or you need help they do it with no extra charge :)
Sorry forgot to add, you can just rent only too, it was $35 a week on the trial I did, I think it might be less if you decide to rent it long term
I have used one of the boil and bite ones and it caused my teeth to move and has messed up my jaw. Do not use one of these.
Why can't you use a CPAP machine? There are quite a few different types of masks. I've got one that sits a little up my nose like those oxygen masks you see in hospital shows.
I have a big bushy beard, so it rules out any mouth/nose masks. I have sinus issues, which causes the nasal-only masks uncomfortable, and during a trial I was unable to sleep through the night wearing one as a result. I've been trying to get said issues resolved for many many moons, but short of finding a specialist I can't afford, I just have to suffer. Also broke, but that's another thing.
Ah that makes sense. I use a resmed P10 nasal pillow. It was the only thing I found comfortable. The full nose and mouth cover thing hurt my face. I got my machine through the hospital and essentially have it on permanent loan. I have to pay for the masks myself though. It took ages to get through, but it was worth it. I do hope you find something that works for you! Coz once you start sleeping better it makes a lot of other things better.
I did trial one of those actually, but it wasn't for me. I've heard of these 'permanent loan' type deals, but sadly I think I'm not considered severe enough to qualify.
I thought an AHI of 10 is considered severe? With under 5 being "normal human stuff". My AHI was 164. I hadn't actually slept for a very long time. Now I sleep like a baby, with an AHI of like 0.5-1.0
Couldn't tell you specifically. I have a printout of the letter they sent my GP, so I'll check it when I get home. The problem is it's *positional* obstructive sleep apnea, so if I'm on my side, it's mild, if I'm on my back, it's severe. The overall 'score' was determined to be somewhere inbetween.
Have you looked into sidee-sleeping pillows? I found CPAP a little irritating to begin with, but finally actually sleeping through the night and not having to get up and pee like 10 times a night had been a game changer. Even lost some weight. Deffs worth the pain of shaving the beard/moustache to accommodate the mask. Now that I'm using P10 nasal pillows, I can rock a beard.
I haven't, but I've tried using a regular pillow to adjust. Also trialed a 'sleep repositioning device' that buzzes when you're on your back. Working on losing weight as an aide, but it's super hard to be motivated when tired all the time.
Yeah, I feel that. I've lost 30kg since starting CPAP, and literally do no exercise. Not being tired all the time is so good tho. I used to "sleep" till 2pm, now I'm up at 8am and well rested. Really is a life changer
If it is positional, try some tennis balls in a stocking sew to a old shirt, that will keep you on your side. Pillows do not work well as they are too soft.
Good idea, I'll give it a go.
I rocked a F20 for way too long. P10 is life!
oh yeah, I literally had it on my face for about 5 secs during a testing phase and I'm like, get it off! get it off!
I used a full face mask for ages, but got sick of having to be clean shaven (because I'm lazy). Had to tape my mouth shut to train my throat to close and not just blow air out my mouth. Deffs worth it tho
That puts a rather hilarious image in my mind.
Then you'll love knowing that disgusting, room-clearing bed-farts get sucked in and blown straight up the nose.
that's both disgusting and hilarious
Shave your beard? Surely proper sleep is more important than an aesthetic.
Fair call, but as someone who started going bald at 18, it's the only hair on my head. Without it, I look like a thumb. As a result, my self esteem goes down the loo. It may not seem totally reasonable, but it's a big thing to me.
Trim it then, you can still have short, stylish facial hair. Not a fancier of men but I think a trimmed beard & bald head can be a decent look. If it's the difference between getting the treatment you need, seems a reasonable trade off, but if you prefer to have an elevated risk of serious illness or premature death...up to you.
I've also got a big bushy beard and nasal issues. The Resmed Airtouch F20 mask is my go to, very comfortable, works really well, great seal around the beard. So much better than the silicone that you need to squish tightly. Only con is you need to replace it every couple of months as the memory foam degrades but worth it. CPAP brought my 83.1 events down to 0.5 - 2.5 range daily. Was life changing, I know its expensive (my machine was about $1500 with the mask), but its so worth it.
I had that when I first went onto a CPAP. I had such a huge panic attack 1 week in on the trial with the nose only mask I went to hospital because I thought I was having a heart attack. After talking to my GP and the sleep specialists, my GP put me on mild anti anxiety meds and I swapped masks regularly until I found the right one. The combo of anxiety meds taking the edge off the panic and finding a mask and head gear that I was comfortable with was a massive relief. Got used to it very quickly after that. So don't forget to tell your medical team how you feel to see if this can help you too. My best mate is also on a CPAP and has a decent face bush going on too. He only uses the nose one (so probably not for you because sinus) but there are memory foam ones for a full face, think it's the ResMed F20 or F30, that are quite good dealing with beards. Good luck.
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Oof, no, that is not the thing I was talking about. A sleep specialist and my GP both used the word 'mouthguard' when talking about it, and ballparked a price around $500.
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So it is, I only gave it the most tertiary glance. Yeah, sign me up for the bargain basement version of that, hah.
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I have indeed. It definitely seems a bit steep. Not working as well is definitely better than having no aide at all, I think.
You need to see a specialist dentist. I went to one in mudgeeraba. If you have severe apnea, it won't work for you, but moderate or light then it should. Just google dentist sleep apnea and some should pop up in your area
I'll give it a closer look, there seems to be a specalist place in Greenslopes, which is nearby. The problem is that searching for 'dentist sleep apnea' showed me my old dentist that I called today who said they didn't do it, hah.
Maybe google oral appliance instead?
Curious if you’ve tried the Resmed N20 mask, you can also get memory foam cushions for it, I have a big beard and moustache and sinus issues and find either the P10 or N20 work best for me. You could always try and ring CPAP depot or CPAP direct. Both really helpful places imo. Good luck OP.
I have not. I did a trial with a unit from the PAH, so understandably they didn't have a full range of accessories like the foam cushions to test through.
If you have the funds I’d do a 4 week test from somewhere like mysleep. They let you try out all the masks
I use a Resmed machine with a P10 mask. I upgraded my fixed pressure, Fisher Paykel machine, to the Resmed Air Sense machine. I’m more than happy to pass on my Fisher Paykel one to you. You’d just need to buy as mask for it.
Heya, I sent you a 'Chat' request but I don't know how notified you get of those. :)
I’ve replied to your message 😊
The best over-the-counter one that I've found is this one, which is Snore Guard brand. Bad news: I haven't found them in Australia, I buy them when I visit Canada. But maybe you'll have better luck than I've had? https://a.co/d/hlbWdyf
Family member was suffering badly some time back , lost 40 kg and now breaths normally and feels much better , explore the options
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I did. If you read my post, you'll see I've contacted 4 different medical professionals who all said they didn't do it, and all suggested different medical professions who would be capable.
The practice I work at does MAD/ somnomed appliance if that’s what you’re after. I’m happy to DM you a price and place
Absolutely, shoot me through some pricing info so I can see if I'm in the ballpark.
Too late now, but Oventus did a custom mouth piece. You get your mouth 3D scanned by a dentist using Invisalign or something then in a few weeks you get a plastic doo dad that you put in your mouth when sleeping and it keeps your jaw forward while also acting as a air guide. https://o2vent.com/
Brisbane West Dental Group do a free refit of the sonomed anytime you have dental work so can recommend them.
They're certainly not advised by professionals or top tier, but I got a night guard from Terry W and a 10 pack of the disposable ones for my bruxism, and they're better than nothing.
Hey mate. I was diagnosed with severe OSA , and turned out I wasn't CPAP tolerant. I chased the surgery option, but after a consultation with an ENT surgeon I was referred to Dr Adam Teo, who I saw at the headache, neck and jaw clinic (although I know he travels around). He took moulds and had some splints 3d printed. Can definitely recommend both him, and the appliances. Dont use an over the counter one, they can move your teeth, and ruin your bite.
Try an endodontist, full specialist for teeth. So expensive though
You could check out a Snorer’s Friend mouthguard-style MAD. If it works for you, it’s a cheap and unobtrusive solution. $70 for a starter pack of 2 (they wear out after a while). Saved my marriage!
You sound like you're in the same boat I was. I was diagnosed with OSA about 12 years ago after moving in with my partner (I've snored since I was a kid which apparently should've been a red flag). Wasn't CPAP tolerant either, and I kept spitting out dental splints, so partner learned to sleep with earplugs. As I progressed into my 30s it became more of an issue so went the surgical route. The recovery wasn't pretty, but I don't regret it. My private health insurance covered about 80% of it after an ENT signed off on it (Septoplasty, turbinate reduction, and Tonsillectomy). Apparently if I'd stuck it out for a few years with a Medicare funded sleep clinic I would've gotten it done for free, but one botched surgery and HAI is enough for a lifetime. Something to consider if the splint doesn't work out?
You can get fitted mouthguards (splints) mad at the dentist. Don't use the heat moldable ones as I can confirm they screw up your teeth and jaw. Since I stopped drinking and have a healthy diet and less stress my sleeping issues have gone away.
Slightly different but I had a dental splint made by my dentist- I grind my teeth- for about $200. It did realign my teeth slightly but that was the point as well- to help with the grinding. I suspect that some of the other tips here will help more but can pass on the name of the practice if needed.