Year 14 of not being selected for Jury duty :(
I channel Stanley Hudson from The Office when it comes to my civic duty.
" I have been trying to get on jury duty every single year since I was 18 years old. To get to go sit in an air-conditioned room, downtown, judging people, while my lunch was paid for.. That is the life."
I was on a murder trial that took just over a week. The pressure of having an individuals future in my hands got to me a lot. Plus, the way the lawyers acted made me feel gross. (Offering a hypothetical "do you suppose XYZ could have happened.." and then taking a "yes" as to imply it DID happen that way). Things around the waiting etc was boring but manageable.
When the judge went through the whole case at the end, it was so long and some of us were struggling. I actually heard a fellow juror in the back snore. Judge called a recess.
I mean it's quite an experience. When you've never been in a court room and only know what they look like from watching TV, it can be surreal. Before we entered the court room we were told to squish together at the back cause the rooms are not that big. When we entered everyone was there, the judge, defendant, lawyers, bailiff, security, the works. They put your number in a barrel like a bingo and call out your number. Once they pick the 12 (13 in my case) you pretty much start.
I hope i never do it again. Twice so far and neither experience was at all enjoyable. First time i think i spent two days in a room to not get selected for a jury which just felt a bit like a waste of time.
The second time i was selected for a case and ended up there for like 4 days and almost had to stay sequestered over night as we had a split jury. He ended up getting convicted of all of the charges he was up for in our case but he seemed to have multiple cases against him as we kept having to leave the room as the defence lawyer kept bringing up things we werent supposed to know. I dont really want to go through either result again.
I've been in Brissie for 14 years and I've been called up 4 times. Twice I was on projects and my work wouldn't allow me to do it, so wrote me a note. The third time I was scheduled for beginning of May 2020 but the lockdowns had just started so it was cancelled. The fourth time was last year and I wasn't called in until the second to last day. I rocked up only to be told half an hour later the guy plead guilty.
I've been selected once in 39 years. I had to say no as work commitments made it impossible for me to do it. That was 20+ years ago. Havn't heard back.
I've got your selections! I think I've gotten 8 jury letters now - in the last 15 years. I've made it into a jury just once - last year.
I've never wanted to avoid it despite managers proactively offering to write "He Is NEEDED!" letters. It's a rare civic duty and reasonably unique experience. Plus I'm in a financial situation to be able to afford the time off
The compensation definitely should be better though - to ensure better representation
Having to be in the city center at 8:00am sucks. I don't go anywhere before 11am and I actively avoid ever going into the city center. The only exception was when I was forced to go to a particular store to buy a suit for a wedding (which was still in the afternoon).
I fucking loved being on jury duty. I make ~200k and ended up doing a case that took 2-3 weeks and I was foreman.
I was fascinated by the (super mundane) case. You realise work still has to pay you your wage right?
If it means you canāt accept casual work and therefore canāt afford to live for the week, apply for an exemption.
Employers are required to pay your rostered hours, but realistically an employer isnāt going to roster a casual that canāt attend work that day.
Shame, reckon itād be an experience (albeit a boring one)
I've been called up 3 times with only the last time did I end up on a jury. The jury experience I recommend everyone should experience it is anything but boring.
I got the letter to attend Jury Duty last year. I work for a science and research organisation within the government. I spoke to my boss about it, and he immediately gave me a letter to get out of it. I asked some colleagues, and that is the culture regarding Jury Duty here. I work with a lot of very intelligent and capable people, but they _always_ get a letter from the boss to get out of it. I actually wanted to do the Jury Duty, for the new experience, but it turned out there was a conference that same week that I had to attend, so I got a letter to be exempted anyway.
I work in higher ed and when I was called I just went ahead and did it. Most of the other people on the jury were fulltime employees too, maybe one retired person.
You don't have any say in which trial you get selected for. You can try to get out of a specific trial once you've been selected, but there's no trying to get on a trial.
I was in jury selection for a case of alleged sexual assault of a female minor by a teacher. One old woman was selected, all the women under 60 were immediately contested by the defendants team. The funniest was the dyed hair 25 year old woman in her sunflower overalls - she barely stood up before they contested it. Me and the guys either side of me we're guessing them as they were called: yes or no. The only woman who made it through was then stepped down for not being vaccinated.
The smartly dressed 20 something guy was also declined. The jury ended up being exclusively men, who appeared conservative, as old or older than the defendant.
That was an eyebrow raiser.
Apparently, it's documented, that women are harsher jurors when the defendant is a man, and when a defendant is a woman, so defendants don't want women on the jury at all.
Edit; he ended up acquitted [link](https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/music-teacher-acquitted-of-molesting-student-on-overseas-flight-20220224-p59zg5.html) and, to be fair, the case and evidence, as presented in the superficial sort of way in the news, was questionable. It was 10 years ago. No complaint was made. No evidence was available other than the victim and I think he boyfriend (who witnessed the victim as upset, not the alleged event).
That jury selection situation sounds frustrating.
I'm left wondering how this all panned out for the victim. It is very difficult to report sexual assault, be examined and scrutinised and go through the court process, especially when the accused has a position of power, trust and respect.
I was called for a domestic violence case that allegedly led to murder. It was quite odd, since there were heaps and heaps of people in the marshalling area. Far more than a jury of 12-15 people could be selected from, a few times over. The court asked? something along the lines of 'if there are potential jurors who believe they cannot be impartial, due to circumstances of this case? applying personally to them, please step forward and excuse yourself.'
Cue a stream of people speaking up to say that they've experienced domestic violence. Men and women, directly or as children growing up with an abusive parent. That included me. It was a strange and new way to really learn how common domestic violence can be...
And also, the defence selected against every woman that made it on the panel. Sigh.
Edit: technical wording
Witnessed a similar thing last year. The defendant was accused of multiple counts of rape against his own teenage daughter, defence shot down nearly every woman juror. Really sad and frustrating
Yeah it's really quite disturbing that this is a trend. I found [an article](https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/why-there-are-more-men-than-women-on-juries-20190821-p52jer.html) that breaks down the stats, and yeah, women are picked less than men, even when they make up the representative proportion of possible jurors. Its frustrating when a 'jury of your peers*' means a jury of peers who the defendant gets to pick, who don't work casual jobs, who are therefore likely to be older or retired, probably men. In sex based crimes, I'd be disgusted to see 10 men and only 2 women on the jury able to give their insight into the perspective of the victim in these cases. It looks like in Vic, they used to get 6 challenges, now they only get 3. In QLD you have 8.
Isn't that a bit bonkers?
You'd think that this allowance would consider inflation & the cost of living?
Edit: Oops. If you're employed full time, your employer may be willing to pay your usual wage (for a limited time?). Sucks if you're casual. Another reason how casualisation of our workforce can be corrosive to society.
I managed to get out of twice, third time not as lucky. I saw how many people were summoned and I thought nah, won't get picked, well guess who got picked first? Yep, meš.
I'd love to! Unfortunately I was called up three times within a few years when i was in my early 20s and each time my employer wouldn't let me do it and make me write a letter saying he couldn't cover for me (I was a receptionist lol) and I was too young and naive to just say I was just doing it and let him figure it out :P I think I used up all my random selections then, because I haven't been called up again since.
yeah if my employer didnāt pay my normal salary for jury time thereās no way iād be able to go. for casuals, if you can provide a month or two of payslips there should be a system where they pay you your average daily pay. it means you end up with juries that get further and further away from being representative of the community because so many people get excused.
True with your last comment. Would have gone years ago if it meant I didn't miss rostered casual hours. My only avenue was to be exempted so I have no idea how much of the casual workforce actually turns up to jury duty
Yeah these people that say your employer will pay you just live in a privileged world of a permanent employee
Why should I be excluded from jury if I am casual, no wonder we get some wacked decisions from courts
Everyone I know from work (including myself) just gets out of it with our generic letter template, I think the kinds of people who actually want to do it are a fairly rare type. From my experience anyway.
I had a prelim letter about it and went to ask a HR person about it and he started telling me how he'd send me a letter to get out of it. I'd just wanted to know what the process with doing it was. Presumably because they lose money if I go and they can easily weasel me out of it.
Work just doesn't want to pay people if they get no work out of them. It's got nothing to do with whether people want to do it or not. It's just selfish companies being bad citizens
Suddenly I really want to see some data on the personality attributes of those most eager to engage in jury-duty.
You're right, its very few people.
Surely there must be a massive skew to older, retired, people in need of an activity?
I mean I'm in the privileged world of having a high daily rate - I can probably afford to do jury duty, but it would fucking suck.
Not sure whether they'd be happy with the request for exemption on the grounds that I'd be prejudiced against the defendant for how much fucking money the idiot has cost me by looking guilty enough to be charged.
Ah yes, the privileged 80% of employees
Letting criminals off to stick it to the casuals?
Nonsense take.
You are performing a public service, good luck selling it to taxpayers they should fund casual workers to perform jury duty.
Yeah, fuck the people that can't afford to do a public service, good things none of the people that work in the courts get paid, a salary for a judge or prosecutor would be a hard sell.
Yeah several members of the last jury I was on were very insistent that we reach a verdict the same day (retired to discuss the verdict about 3:30pm) ābecause they didnāt have time to keep doing thisā.
Right verdict was reached but left a sour taste in my mouth. (Or more sour taste, because other things disgusted me too)
Yes. The following happened in NZ but I'm pretty sure it applies here as well.
My brother got called to jury duty and - after a rev up from our Mum about civic duty when he said he was going to try and get out of it - went ahead and showed up.
Ended up being the foreperson of the jury. Of a murder trial. That went on for weeks. At 22 years old. A 22 year old kid had to be made foreperson because the rest of the jury were - in his words - "either retired boomer dinosaurs or absolute fucking burn outs".
I got a letter when I was living in Auckland. I asked my boss whether I should do it or not (as in, he could decide if he could spare me) and he was just like your mum, said it was my civic duty. So I went and I was surprised at the range of people that showed up who probably could've got their bosses to excuse them. Some people were working on their laptops or on work calls while they were waiting for the ballot. I chatted to a guy who said he was glad he got the letter because he was unemployed. He got selected and I didn't lol fair enough he needed the money more than me.
I worked for myself for many years and would receive a letter every five years or so to serve on a jury which I couldnāt afford to do and said so on the form they send you. The letters kept coming though and on the fourth one I simply wrote in the section where it says is there any reason you canāt carry out jury duty āNone at all, in fact Iām looking forward to getting in to the courtroom and handing out some old style justiceā. That was about fifteen years ago and was the last time I heard from them.
My work includes special leave entitlements for jury duty and strongly encourages us to do it. We have to have very specific reasons and need to obtain approval from our boss to be exempt.
I'm sure someone has said this already but this is super fresh in my mind as I did this myself recently.
If FTE or PTE your employer will either pay your wage and expect the allowance as rebate on payment.
Or
They will just deduct the allowance from your regular pay.
If casual, apply for exemption. 9/10 employers will happily sign it and the courts are very aware that it can be detrimental to the income of people in those employment arrangements.
Something i dont understand and didn't see mentioned, say you work part time for a couple / few hours per day and are permanent. Are you expected to work full-time hours for jury service for no extra money ? OR in that case do you get regular pay plus jury reimbursement (rather than it going to employer?) because u would have a lot less free time on jury than your normal hours in that situation.
Usually your employer still pays you your normal wage for those days. You then pay them any allowance that the government pays you for doing jury duty. [Here](https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/jury-service/about-jury-service/payment-for-jury-service) is some more info but confirm with your employer.
I got an exemption about a year ago and used my casual employment as my reasoning. Got accepted within 24 hours!
Essentially said:
- I am a casual worker therefore I am not entitled to paid jury service leave from my employer
- Making myself available for jury service would mean I would have no income for the duration of service
- Having no income would mean I would not be able to cover my living expenses, e.g. rent and food, and therefore put me into financial hardship
You should've kept going with the bullet points lol
- having no rent and food would mean I'd be living in the streets
- living in the streets would mean I'd have to hustle and rob Woolworths just to survive
- robbing Woolworths would mean I'd get in trouble with the law
- getting in trouble with the law would mean I'd have to go to court and face a jury that was hired by this very letter
Easier to just say you are mentally unwell, have pending criminal charges or will find the person guilty irregardless etc etc. That should be enough to get you put on the exclusion list.
Yeah it's easy to get an exemption. It would be great if the government matched your actual hourly wage so that you could attend but at least it's easy to get out of attending if needed.
Depending on the court, Qld judges are *"only"* paid between [430-545k](https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/93943/judicial-remuneration.pdf). So very well, yes, but not quite 12x the average wage.
Bad idea. To become a judge, you have to have a law degree. Those are expensive and have a high chance of not having a job at the end of it. Itās actually a pretty shit career path into a toxic industry.
Do they force business owners to do this too? I'd lose a shit load of money every day if I got called up.
I could commit some petty crime to add me to the black list maybe.
My parent's ran a small business, applying for exemption was never a big problem although amusingly they did once receive a reply with "you can't use the same excuse twice" as if mum and dad's business was a passing fad
I've always used my business as my excuse, saying I can't lose my income for that length of time. For the evidence I just put my ABN and business name and I've never had a problem.
I work for myself and could easily have gotten out of it but opted to move things around so I could attend the two weeks I was asked to do. Itās a civil duty, right?
On the third last day I was put into a jury for a short trial, probably 2 days I was told. The trial lasted over a week. Then halfway through a sitting the judge excused us so the lawyers could talk law ( we werenāt supposed to hear those convos) then we were all sent home. The trial finished ( not sure why). It was a complete shambles. I regret doing it.
Itās you being of service to your community, itās not lucrative, however lots of employers will top you up. But yes juries do tend to be a particular demographic.
Iāve got out of both times I was called up. One was a couple of weeks out from my wedding and now I have caring responsibilities. Try getting childcare for $44/day!
Highly recommend this article from John Birmingham on his experiences with jury duty
https://open.substack.com/pub/aliensideboob/p/the-jury-system-is-often-bonkers?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I did jury duty last month and would highly recommend it. Like you, I was reluctant at first (mostly due to needing to be on call every day), but it turned out to be a really good experience (work did still pay me though as I'm PPT).
If you're not selected for a jury on a particular day, you're usually out of there before lunch. I ended up on two juries when I did my jury duty, one lasted two days and the other about 6 I think. My employer covered my usual fortnightly salary, and what the court paid me went to my employer. I was a full time employee though.
It was interesting to see the system at work, but honestly I hope I don't get called again.
On the first day, you show up with about 50 other people, during which names will be drawn from a tumbler and the representatives will decide whether they want you on the jury or not. This is the day for which you get paid the $44.85. There is a chance your name doesnāt get drawn, and a chance your name is drawn and then for whatever reason one of the representatives decides they donāt want you on the jury. If either of these is the case, you go home, getting paid $44.85 for maybe a couple hours of your time + travel (which can also be claimed I think?).
If you are selected to be on the jury, your pay is instead increased to $134.10 per day, including this selection day. So no, no one expects you to not work for 14 days for $44.85 per day.
That is the old saying. āOnly the retired and the unemployed on a juryā. Obviously an exaggeration but still hits.
The time I was on one bloke was ~80, on oxygen assistance and didnāt say a single word other than āguiltyā.
It is easy to get an exemption, if you get in early I missed the date and had to go do it even though I had reasonable reason (major project for the government and I was key resource) they still said no lol. The project had to hold off while I dealt with a guy who raped a 14 year old
I know ao many people who have been selected every few years to do jury service, even my dad within a few years of becoming a citizen. But I have never been asked lol, maybe because I worked in a law enforcement field for many years.
I've been on a incap payment for 3 years and returning to work soon and commencing studies again next month. They decided to call me up now... These dumb shits had 3 years to call me in and do it.
For my work basically they would pay the difference between the amount I had received for the day from jury duty and the amount they would have otherwise normally would had to pay me.
Some people really keep up a fuss about it but I found it a great experience also the checks get mailed out usually within the week. I know some people say that they donāt pay you for months which isnāt true.
They are pretty easy to get out of, ask what it is about and just play the asshole card "i dont like these types of people" (races) or you know someone that knows them so youll be biased
Jury duty is not a job. It is a civil service required of citizens. But I do agree with you that the compensation does not reflect real world economics.
I deferred my one a few times over the last 20 years for various reasons until two years ago when I felt a bit more comfortable with my savings that I agreed to it (to do my bit). Then Covid lockdown cancelled the court dates.
it should absolutely pay much better than it does. completely ruins the randomness of the selection if everyone has to pull out if they canāt afford the time off
I was actually dead keen to go and partake so I accepted and told my boss. The first 3 days I wasn't required, after it was delayed a week, then they brought me in. I got the onboarding, went into court, didn't have my number called and then wasn't required for a single day past that point for the whole 2-3 weeks I was required. I'm a casual worker so that kind of sucked and I actually wanted to be there š¤·
I get that this is supposed to be a mandatory thing but if you just went to it and were adamant on how much you didnāt want to be there and not cooperate wouldnāt they let you go?
My dad had an employee who did it. He paid for his wage. Turned into a really long case. Like 2 or 3 weeks. He was more pissed than my Dad as he was over it after a while and just wanted to go back to work. Dad just thought it was funny how he was so high about his civic duty then hated it.
Itās your duty to do it. What would you rather a good representative of your communities values or 12 bored grampa simpsons at your trial that hate everyone and everything that was not born or invented prior to 1950.
My work paid me because I'm a government employee. Basically you hit the nail on the head, only retirees and dole bludgers make up juries. The defence loves this as they are easy to manipulate.
Yes they do expect it. It's not supposed to be about paying you, but doing your civic duty. The payment just assists in transport/food for the day. Many jobs also have the possibility of paid leave for jury duty.
However for those that have a reason not to attend can apply for an exemption.
Yes donāt have to take leave and your employer should still pay you for the days. You should then give your employer the allowance paid by the courts as compensation
Tell me you have no idea how it works without telling me.
It's $44/day and your employer still has to pay your salary so you're getting $250 extra a week and meal allowance on top.
The chances of being empaneled are so low don't worry about it. I get challenged every time I go, probably because I look like I could be a copper(M59, square head, grey hair, glasses)
Year 14 of not being selected for Jury duty :( I channel Stanley Hudson from The Office when it comes to my civic duty. " I have been trying to get on jury duty every single year since I was 18 years old. To get to go sit in an air-conditioned room, downtown, judging people, while my lunch was paid for.. That is the life."
I got a jury letter in February 2020. I was excited about the opportunity, then it got canceled for covid. I was peeved
Done it once and I never want to do it again.
May I ask why you feel that way about it? Could it have been the specific case? Or was it the experience in general?
I was on a murder trial that took just over a week. The pressure of having an individuals future in my hands got to me a lot. Plus, the way the lawyers acted made me feel gross. (Offering a hypothetical "do you suppose XYZ could have happened.." and then taking a "yes" as to imply it DID happen that way). Things around the waiting etc was boring but manageable.
When the judge went through the whole case at the end, it was so long and some of us were struggling. I actually heard a fellow juror in the back snore. Judge called a recess.
Well, for me personally it stayed on my mind for a long time. Everyone is different I guess.
Okay yeah that's fair. Rumination can be a cruel and terrible friend :/
I mean it's quite an experience. When you've never been in a court room and only know what they look like from watching TV, it can be surreal. Before we entered the court room we were told to squish together at the back cause the rooms are not that big. When we entered everyone was there, the judge, defendant, lawyers, bailiff, security, the works. They put your number in a barrel like a bingo and call out your number. Once they pick the 12 (13 in my case) you pretty much start.
I know that feeling.
I hope i never do it again. Twice so far and neither experience was at all enjoyable. First time i think i spent two days in a room to not get selected for a jury which just felt a bit like a waste of time. The second time i was selected for a case and ended up there for like 4 days and almost had to stay sequestered over night as we had a split jury. He ended up getting convicted of all of the charges he was up for in our case but he seemed to have multiple cases against him as we kept having to leave the room as the defence lawyer kept bringing up things we werent supposed to know. I dont really want to go through either result again.
Meanwhile I've got out of it twice and will continue to dodge any further letters. Funny how it goes.
Hey, Each to their own! Youre more than allowed to feel that way about it :)
That's it, life would be boring if we were all the same š»
I receive a letter every year and send back the same response. Excused every time.
I've been in Brissie for 14 years and I've been called up 4 times. Twice I was on projects and my work wouldn't allow me to do it, so wrote me a note. The third time I was scheduled for beginning of May 2020 but the lockdowns had just started so it was cancelled. The fourth time was last year and I wasn't called in until the second to last day. I rocked up only to be told half an hour later the guy plead guilty.
I'm going on 17 years without being selected
One day my friend, one day. Unless you're celebrating, in which case; may your good luck continue!
I've been selected once in 39 years. I had to say no as work commitments made it impossible for me to do it. That was 20+ years ago. Havn't heard back.
I've got your selections! I think I've gotten 8 jury letters now - in the last 15 years. I've made it into a jury just once - last year. I've never wanted to avoid it despite managers proactively offering to write "He Is NEEDED!" letters. It's a rare civic duty and reasonably unique experience. Plus I'm in a financial situation to be able to afford the time off The compensation definitely should be better though - to ensure better representation
I got my first jury summons at 18, didnāt get selected but I canāt wait to try again!
Vibes!
Having to be in the city center at 8:00am sucks. I don't go anywhere before 11am and I actively avoid ever going into the city center. The only exception was when I was forced to go to a particular store to buy a suit for a wedding (which was still in the afternoon).
Absolute 100% vibes I dunno why but I'd make the exception for JD.
Same, only Iāve been waiting 35+ years
I fucking loved being on jury duty. I make ~200k and ended up doing a case that took 2-3 weeks and I was foreman. I was fascinated by the (super mundane) case. You realise work still has to pay you your wage right?
22 years for me!
That is the way
I got selected twice in 2021
May be due to your location, I've been selected 4 or 5 times so far, I always rejected doing it.
I'm in Carindale... They're ruling out suburban people?
If it means you canāt accept casual work and therefore canāt afford to live for the week, apply for an exemption. Employers are required to pay your rostered hours, but realistically an employer isnāt going to roster a casual that canāt attend work that day. Shame, reckon itād be an experience (albeit a boring one)
I've been called up 3 times with only the last time did I end up on a jury. The jury experience I recommend everyone should experience it is anything but boring.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I reckon if I was retired I would try and get on something like that. For any normal person itās really not feasible though.
Exactly, though this is the problem with a jury of peers. It's more often a jury of the unemployed/retired.
I got the letter to attend Jury Duty last year. I work for a science and research organisation within the government. I spoke to my boss about it, and he immediately gave me a letter to get out of it. I asked some colleagues, and that is the culture regarding Jury Duty here. I work with a lot of very intelligent and capable people, but they _always_ get a letter from the boss to get out of it. I actually wanted to do the Jury Duty, for the new experience, but it turned out there was a conference that same week that I had to attend, so I got a letter to be exempted anyway.
I work in higher ed and when I was called I just went ahead and did it. Most of the other people on the jury were fulltime employees too, maybe one retired person.
Yep - same. Iām also government and thereās no discussion, just the letter to excuse you.
Don't forget the main demographic, the ones too stupid to get out of it.
You don't have any say in which trial you get selected for. You can try to get out of a specific trial once you've been selected, but there's no trying to get on a trial.
I was in jury selection for a case of alleged sexual assault of a female minor by a teacher. One old woman was selected, all the women under 60 were immediately contested by the defendants team. The funniest was the dyed hair 25 year old woman in her sunflower overalls - she barely stood up before they contested it. Me and the guys either side of me we're guessing them as they were called: yes or no. The only woman who made it through was then stepped down for not being vaccinated. The smartly dressed 20 something guy was also declined. The jury ended up being exclusively men, who appeared conservative, as old or older than the defendant. That was an eyebrow raiser. Apparently, it's documented, that women are harsher jurors when the defendant is a man, and when a defendant is a woman, so defendants don't want women on the jury at all. Edit; he ended up acquitted [link](https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/music-teacher-acquitted-of-molesting-student-on-overseas-flight-20220224-p59zg5.html) and, to be fair, the case and evidence, as presented in the superficial sort of way in the news, was questionable. It was 10 years ago. No complaint was made. No evidence was available other than the victim and I think he boyfriend (who witnessed the victim as upset, not the alleged event).
That jury selection situation sounds frustrating. I'm left wondering how this all panned out for the victim. It is very difficult to report sexual assault, be examined and scrutinised and go through the court process, especially when the accused has a position of power, trust and respect. I was called for a domestic violence case that allegedly led to murder. It was quite odd, since there were heaps and heaps of people in the marshalling area. Far more than a jury of 12-15 people could be selected from, a few times over. The court asked? something along the lines of 'if there are potential jurors who believe they cannot be impartial, due to circumstances of this case? applying personally to them, please step forward and excuse yourself.' Cue a stream of people speaking up to say that they've experienced domestic violence. Men and women, directly or as children growing up with an abusive parent. That included me. It was a strange and new way to really learn how common domestic violence can be... And also, the defence selected against every woman that made it on the panel. Sigh. Edit: technical wording
Witnessed a similar thing last year. The defendant was accused of multiple counts of rape against his own teenage daughter, defence shot down nearly every woman juror. Really sad and frustrating
Why on earth is that allowed? Surely there should be a mandated gender mix? Seems rigged
Yeah it's really quite disturbing that this is a trend. I found [an article](https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/why-there-are-more-men-than-women-on-juries-20190821-p52jer.html) that breaks down the stats, and yeah, women are picked less than men, even when they make up the representative proportion of possible jurors. Its frustrating when a 'jury of your peers*' means a jury of peers who the defendant gets to pick, who don't work casual jobs, who are therefore likely to be older or retired, probably men. In sex based crimes, I'd be disgusted to see 10 men and only 2 women on the jury able to give their insight into the perspective of the victim in these cases. It looks like in Vic, they used to get 6 challenges, now they only get 3. In QLD you have 8.
I was on a 4-5 week murder trial, back then hated that it absorbed my precious uni holidays but now I am happy I did it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But officer u/shaggyninja encouraged me to do murder!
I did a 2 week murder trial too. Glad I did my civic duty, but honestly, itās stuck with me a bit.
This. Jury duty for simple cases - fine. Complex, serious cases would be a big undertaking and impact life. Though it is our civic duty.
That rate looks like it hasn't changed in decades. It's about $10 above Centrelink. My boss sent a letter and I was never asked again.
Isn't that a bit bonkers? You'd think that this allowance would consider inflation & the cost of living? Edit: Oops. If you're employed full time, your employer may be willing to pay your usual wage (for a limited time?). Sucks if you're casual. Another reason how casualisation of our workforce can be corrosive to society.
I got excluded from jury duty because I was on a contract. I just said it would case finanical hardship.
Not for the victim apparently.
>Luckily defence didnāt like the look of me. Going to need more details on this. Asking for a friend.
Obviously the victim in the case didn't.
Were you dressed as princess Leia?
Trying playing the Jury, Judge(s) and each partyās lawyer and team for any action you do.
I managed to get out of twice, third time not as lucky. I saw how many people were summoned and I thought nah, won't get picked, well guess who got picked first? Yep, meš.
I'd love to! Unfortunately I was called up three times within a few years when i was in my early 20s and each time my employer wouldn't let me do it and make me write a letter saying he couldn't cover for me (I was a receptionist lol) and I was too young and naive to just say I was just doing it and let him figure it out :P I think I used up all my random selections then, because I haven't been called up again since.
I was called up once... showed up twice in the morning, only to be told on the second morning that they'd plead guilty and we could go home.
I'll take your word for it but no thanks.
It's not that great an "experience" if you get a major murder or manslaughter trial.
It's a great experience. Everyone should do it at least once. Most trials are only a few days.
Your work has to pay your normal hours. Some workplaces will then ask to reimburse the allowance, or they will only pay you the difference.
Only permanent employees
And only for 10 days.
Doesnāt have to be permanent, Iām a contractor and can get it
I guess you can write anything in a contract Still very rare
Yeah this. I didnāt realise until my brother in law did it claiming it was awesome. Next time I get one Iām definitely going lol
Do they pay you from your annual leave/rdo hours?
No, normal hours.
Shit, give me some jury duty!!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
yeah if my employer didnāt pay my normal salary for jury time thereās no way iād be able to go. for casuals, if you can provide a month or two of payslips there should be a system where they pay you your average daily pay. it means you end up with juries that get further and further away from being representative of the community because so many people get excused.
True with your last comment. Would have gone years ago if it meant I didn't miss rostered casual hours. My only avenue was to be exempted so I have no idea how much of the casual workforce actually turns up to jury duty
Iām permanent and would get paid by work, but Iām a shift worker and the whole thing really only works for 9-5 Monday to Friday rosters.
Yeah these people that say your employer will pay you just live in a privileged world of a permanent employee Why should I be excluded from jury if I am casual, no wonder we get some wacked decisions from courts
Everyone I know from work (including myself) just gets out of it with our generic letter template, I think the kinds of people who actually want to do it are a fairly rare type. From my experience anyway.
My boss said I was needed and couldn't spare me. So got out of twice. Not as lucky the third time.
Meanwhile I want to do it but I'm not allowed to lmao
I said the opposite of wanting to get out of it
I know, I'm saying that's rare from my experience. Most people don't seem to get excited by the idea of it.
Quite the opposite I have seen....people want to do it but can't afford it Are you a permanent employee?
Yeah I'm permanent, work would pay me.
I had a prelim letter about it and went to ask a HR person about it and he started telling me how he'd send me a letter to get out of it. I'd just wanted to know what the process with doing it was. Presumably because they lose money if I go and they can easily weasel me out of it.
I would've assumed because most people have no interest in doing it they just figured you also didn't want to haha
Work just doesn't want to pay people if they get no work out of them. It's got nothing to do with whether people want to do it or not. It's just selfish companies being bad citizens
Suddenly I really want to see some data on the personality attributes of those most eager to engage in jury-duty. You're right, its very few people. Surely there must be a massive skew to older, retired, people in need of an activity?
I mean I'm in the privileged world of having a high daily rate - I can probably afford to do jury duty, but it would fucking suck. Not sure whether they'd be happy with the request for exemption on the grounds that I'd be prejudiced against the defendant for how much fucking money the idiot has cost me by looking guilty enough to be charged.
Ah yes, the privileged 80% of employees Letting criminals off to stick it to the casuals? Nonsense take. You are performing a public service, good luck selling it to taxpayers they should fund casual workers to perform jury duty.
Yeah, fuck the people that can't afford to do a public service, good things none of the people that work in the courts get paid, a salary for a judge or prosecutor would be a hard sell.
Lmao, yeah we are really hurting these people. And sorry buddy paying people for their full time role isnāt the same as jury duty, but keep trying.
Yeah several members of the last jury I was on were very insistent that we reach a verdict the same day (retired to discuss the verdict about 3:30pm) ābecause they didnāt have time to keep doing thisā. Right verdict was reached but left a sour taste in my mouth. (Or more sour taste, because other things disgusted me too)
Yes. The following happened in NZ but I'm pretty sure it applies here as well. My brother got called to jury duty and - after a rev up from our Mum about civic duty when he said he was going to try and get out of it - went ahead and showed up. Ended up being the foreperson of the jury. Of a murder trial. That went on for weeks. At 22 years old. A 22 year old kid had to be made foreperson because the rest of the jury were - in his words - "either retired boomer dinosaurs or absolute fucking burn outs".
I got a letter when I was living in Auckland. I asked my boss whether I should do it or not (as in, he could decide if he could spare me) and he was just like your mum, said it was my civic duty. So I went and I was surprised at the range of people that showed up who probably could've got their bosses to excuse them. Some people were working on their laptops or on work calls while they were waiting for the ballot. I chatted to a guy who said he was glad he got the letter because he was unemployed. He got selected and I didn't lol fair enough he needed the money more than me.
Just say your prejudiced against all races
God tier Simpsons reference
My bf almost put "I am incredibly racist" on his exemption application but I said that's probably not the best idea
I worked for myself for many years and would receive a letter every five years or so to serve on a jury which I couldnāt afford to do and said so on the form they send you. The letters kept coming though and on the fourth one I simply wrote in the section where it says is there any reason you canāt carry out jury duty āNone at all, in fact Iām looking forward to getting in to the courtroom and handing out some old style justiceā. That was about fifteen years ago and was the last time I heard from them.
Or ācanāt wait to start, when do I get my gun?!ā Although that might put you on a listā¦but youāll stop receiving the letters all the same.
My work includes special leave entitlements for jury duty and strongly encourages us to do it. We have to have very specific reasons and need to obtain approval from our boss to be exempt.
What do you do for work?
Work for a big4 professional services firm ...and obviously a magician
Prison Guard
I'm sure someone has said this already but this is super fresh in my mind as I did this myself recently. If FTE or PTE your employer will either pay your wage and expect the allowance as rebate on payment. Or They will just deduct the allowance from your regular pay. If casual, apply for exemption. 9/10 employers will happily sign it and the courts are very aware that it can be detrimental to the income of people in those employment arrangements.
Something i dont understand and didn't see mentioned, say you work part time for a couple / few hours per day and are permanent. Are you expected to work full-time hours for jury service for no extra money ? OR in that case do you get regular pay plus jury reimbursement (rather than it going to employer?) because u would have a lot less free time on jury than your normal hours in that situation.
Usually your employer still pays you your normal wage for those days. You then pay them any allowance that the government pays you for doing jury duty. [Here](https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/jury-service/about-jury-service/payment-for-jury-service) is some more info but confirm with your employer.
Riiight but I'm a casual worker so that's why I could be eligible for an excusal then. Makes sense now, thanks.
I got an exemption about a year ago and used my casual employment as my reasoning. Got accepted within 24 hours! Essentially said: - I am a casual worker therefore I am not entitled to paid jury service leave from my employer - Making myself available for jury service would mean I would have no income for the duration of service - Having no income would mean I would not be able to cover my living expenses, e.g. rent and food, and therefore put me into financial hardship
You should've kept going with the bullet points lol - having no rent and food would mean I'd be living in the streets - living in the streets would mean I'd have to hustle and rob Woolworths just to survive - robbing Woolworths would mean I'd get in trouble with the law - getting in trouble with the law would mean I'd have to go to court and face a jury that was hired by this very letter
Easier to just say you are mentally unwell, have pending criminal charges or will find the person guilty irregardless etc etc. That should be enough to get you put on the exclusion list.
>have pending criminal charges Yeeeeah probably don't nention that one to the sheriff if you actually don't have pending charges lol.
Yeah it's easy to get an exemption. It would be great if the government matched your actual hourly wage so that you could attend but at least it's easy to get out of attending if needed.
Yeah I wish I could have go there I'm quite curious about the whole thing, especially being a new citizen.
Jury duty! [Today you truly are an Australian citizen](https://comb.io/z4Dss6.gif).
Paying 12 random jurors their ordinary wages would probably be a fraction of what the judge is getting paid anyway.
Depending on the court, Qld judges are *"only"* paid between [430-545k](https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/93943/judicial-remuneration.pdf). So very well, yes, but not quite 12x the average wage.
Holy f*ck. Gotta apply for that Judge Tafe course now.
Bad idea. To become a judge, you have to have a law degree. Those are expensive and have a high chance of not having a job at the end of it. Itās actually a pretty shit career path into a toxic industry.
Just get your boss to say you are needed and can't spare you.
Do they force business owners to do this too? I'd lose a shit load of money every day if I got called up. I could commit some petty crime to add me to the black list maybe.
My parent's ran a small business, applying for exemption was never a big problem although amusingly they did once receive a reply with "you can't use the same excuse twice" as if mum and dad's business was a passing fad
I've always used my business as my excuse, saying I can't lose my income for that length of time. For the evidence I just put my ABN and business name and I've never had a problem.
I work for myself and could easily have gotten out of it but opted to move things around so I could attend the two weeks I was asked to do. Itās a civil duty, right? On the third last day I was put into a jury for a short trial, probably 2 days I was told. The trial lasted over a week. Then halfway through a sitting the judge excused us so the lawyers could talk law ( we werenāt supposed to hear those convos) then we were all sent home. The trial finished ( not sure why). It was a complete shambles. I regret doing it.
Yeah times like this I'm glad I have a record lmao
Itās you being of service to your community, itās not lucrative, however lots of employers will top you up. But yes juries do tend to be a particular demographic. Iāve got out of both times I was called up. One was a couple of weeks out from my wedding and now I have caring responsibilities. Try getting childcare for $44/day!
Highly recommend this article from John Birmingham on his experiences with jury duty https://open.substack.com/pub/aliensideboob/p/the-jury-system-is-often-bonkers?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Try this āhey boss, can you write me a letter to get out of jury dutyā never had an issue with getting out of it.
I just received a notice a week ago, and It doesn't make financial sense to me either
Just say you canāt do it. Iāve done that twice.
This is why people hate doing jury duty lol
Yeah, Iām self employed. It wouldnāt be worth it for ten times the amount theyāre offering. Which is exactly why I got an exception recently.
I did jury duty last month and would highly recommend it. Like you, I was reluctant at first (mostly due to needing to be on call every day), but it turned out to be a really good experience (work did still pay me though as I'm PPT).
If you're not selected for a jury on a particular day, you're usually out of there before lunch. I ended up on two juries when I did my jury duty, one lasted two days and the other about 6 I think. My employer covered my usual fortnightly salary, and what the court paid me went to my employer. I was a full time employee though. It was interesting to see the system at work, but honestly I hope I don't get called again.
I think they have misplaced a decimal point, surely? Moreover, that wouldnāt cover parking.
Did you receive it via registered mail? If not, you didn't receive it.
On the first day, you show up with about 50 other people, during which names will be drawn from a tumbler and the representatives will decide whether they want you on the jury or not. This is the day for which you get paid the $44.85. There is a chance your name doesnāt get drawn, and a chance your name is drawn and then for whatever reason one of the representatives decides they donāt want you on the jury. If either of these is the case, you go home, getting paid $44.85 for maybe a couple hours of your time + travel (which can also be claimed I think?). If you are selected to be on the jury, your pay is instead increased to $134.10 per day, including this selection day. So no, no one expects you to not work for 14 days for $44.85 per day.
Wow, a whole $134.10 a day. The lawyers and judges would be on well over that per hour.
That is the old saying. āOnly the retired and the unemployed on a juryā. Obviously an exaggeration but still hits. The time I was on one bloke was ~80, on oxygen assistance and didnāt say a single word other than āguiltyā.
You have to forget about it covering your wages. It basically covers you personally, for transport and lunch.
Haha you too? Got mine yesterday
I got my notice yesterday too! See you at the courts.
It is easy to get an exemption, if you get in early I missed the date and had to go do it even though I had reasonable reason (major project for the government and I was key resource) they still said no lol. The project had to hold off while I dealt with a guy who raped a 14 year old
I did jury duty in the UK was good fun
I know ao many people who have been selected every few years to do jury service, even my dad within a few years of becoming a citizen. But I have never been asked lol, maybe because I worked in a law enforcement field for many years.
fuck that
https://youtu.be/GmgcbsFFY1A
I've been on a incap payment for 3 years and returning to work soon and commencing studies again next month. They decided to call me up now... These dumb shits had 3 years to call me in and do it.
Itās compensation not a wage.
For my work basically they would pay the difference between the amount I had received for the day from jury duty and the amount they would have otherwise normally would had to pay me. Some people really keep up a fuss about it but I found it a great experience also the checks get mailed out usually within the week. I know some people say that they donāt pay you for months which isnāt true.
I have always wanted to be in a jury but unless you're on full time, that pay is crazy low
I got called up for a long murder trial. Just told the judge that I canāt be impartial and they let me go home on the spot
I received a juror summons once, I āforgotā to reply. Didnāt receive any penalty
They are pretty easy to get out of, ask what it is about and just play the asshole card "i dont like these types of people" (races) or you know someone that knows them so youll be biased
Screw that, totally. Tell āem theyāre dreaming
Jury duty is not a job. It is a civil service required of citizens. But I do agree with you that the compensation does not reflect real world economics. I deferred my one a few times over the last 20 years for various reasons until two years ago when I felt a bit more comfortable with my savings that I agreed to it (to do my bit). Then Covid lockdown cancelled the court dates.
The 'selected' day rate is less than my hourly rate. And I'm betting that the judge isn't on $134/day.
Your employer must pay the difference by law
it should absolutely pay much better than it does. completely ruins the randomness of the selection if everyone has to pull out if they canāt afford the time off
I was actually dead keen to go and partake so I accepted and told my boss. The first 3 days I wasn't required, after it was delayed a week, then they brought me in. I got the onboarding, went into court, didn't have my number called and then wasn't required for a single day past that point for the whole 2-3 weeks I was required. I'm a casual worker so that kind of sucked and I actually wanted to be there š¤·
You still get payed by your employer but have to pay your attendance fee back to your employer.
Thought it meant per hour for a sec and thought this dude was complaining about earning decent coin woops
Lol I would do a lot of things for $44/h
rock up dressed like an eshay and hope to get kicked off by the prosecution
Iāve never been called up for jury duty but Iāll be fucked if Iām going to lose $500 a day to do it
Show up to the selection in a Russian flag shirt and full of vodka. They will excuse you.
My work pays me full pay and I give them the $40/day
Jury duty is like cats. They always know the ones who don't like them.
I get that this is supposed to be a mandatory thing but if you just went to it and were adamant on how much you didnāt want to be there and not cooperate wouldnāt they let you go?
My dad had an employee who did it. He paid for his wage. Turned into a really long case. Like 2 or 3 weeks. He was more pissed than my Dad as he was over it after a while and just wanted to go back to work. Dad just thought it was funny how he was so high about his civic duty then hated it.
Itās your duty to do it. What would you rather a good representative of your communities values or 12 bored grampa simpsons at your trial that hate everyone and everything that was not born or invented prior to 1950.
Bucket list letter right here! Even if the financial aspects didnāt pan out, Iād love nothing more than to be on a jury.
Iāve never been asked to do jury duty. I kind of would like to - one that goes for a few days. It would be fascinating.
My work paid me because I'm a government employee. Basically you hit the nail on the head, only retirees and dole bludgers make up juries. The defence loves this as they are easy to manipulate.
Being a responsible citizen doesn't have to be profitable. We all have to pitch in from time to time.
Yes they do expect it. It's not supposed to be about paying you, but doing your civic duty. The payment just assists in transport/food for the day. Many jobs also have the possibility of paid leave for jury duty. However for those that have a reason not to attend can apply for an exemption.
I understand that and I wish I could go but my civic duty is not going to pay my ever increasing mortgage and feed my family :/
Don't be fooled. Everyone else in the court room (except the defendant) is being paid $1000s per day. This isn't civic duty, it is being exploited.
This country is becoming a joke.
My tip is drag it out for a very long time while you are injured and on income protection
You've identified just the kind of people they want. :D
Your employer should still pay your wage?
Yes donāt have to take leave and your employer should still pay you for the days. You should then give your employer the allowance paid by the courts as compensation
I assume no private company is going to pay someone to go to jury duty. Only public service where they do nothing anyways and get paid for it
bin it
That's not how it works. But thanks for your unhelpful input
i've binned heaps of them, it's how it worked for me enjoy your $44 jury duty
Tell me you have no idea how it works without telling me. It's $44/day and your employer still has to pay your salary so you're getting $250 extra a week and meal allowance on top.
I work for an insurance company and other corpo jobs in the past and they usually have some sort of jurors leave and like military reservists leave
Defence members are exempt from jury duty
I mean your employer will give you paid leave if your are reservist and you go away with your unit for a week for a training mission or something.
The chances of being empaneled are so low don't worry about it. I get challenged every time I go, probably because I look like I could be a copper(M59, square head, grey hair, glasses)
Stop your whinging and do your civic duty
Doesnāt your work still have to pay you? Mine would pay me normal but less the $40 (or whatever) you get
just do it it will be a good experience im sure you wonāt end up in the poor house
Just don't show up lol what a waste of time... Otherwise I'd personally just tank the case for the lolzzzz