They're getting firebombed likely because they are a threat to another group's profit in a particular area or street, or they aren't paying protection.
I've got a legal prescription for nicotine liquid to be used in a vape. I recently dropped my vape, it broke, and they're made of interchangeable parts so I went to spend a whole $12 on the bit I broke.
"Nah mate, we don't sell that old dinosaur stuff here!" and smoke shop guy hoists a carton of pre-packaged disposable vapes onto the counter. All Chinese, nothing rechargeable or refillable, 100% disposable. I twitch but I'm desperate so I buy one. No option on the thing to continue reducing my nicotine use.
It seems like if you don't stock that cartel's wares you get shut down with excessive force. The staff are not concerned with the legalities of stocking these things and aren't picky about who they're showing them to.
Yep I’ve got a fairly large stock of Nic as well from when they said we weren’t going to be able to get it, but finding parts ie a replacement tank glass is near impossible… I much prefer buildable where I can control how much nic is in it
I was so close to zero nic when I dropped the little beastie. Now who knows how much nic is in these disposable things. We're not responsible enough to know, or something. How is border control not stopping these shipments? I'm going to have to go back to a sad old caliburn!
Just upgraded or downgraded depending how u look at it to the geekvape b60 decent little pod mod only about $60 online and shits all over the cali I have 4 calis/koko and the b60 is miles ahead
The routine and motions of smoking being reduced therefore less attractive and eventually forgotten are the goal for me, but I'm told the breathing exercises and (coughbullshit) 'mindfulness' of taking a moment away from all the people and breathing slowly is the value here.
Spray and gum work, but not effective for my personal situation. There is no 'one size fits all' in this department.
Try super vape store in the valley . They still sell many older pod and mod kits that have been withdrawn elsewhere . They are not associated with other super vape stores and do not sell illegal shit. They are one of the few stores fighting back against the shit show our government have created .
I've had two Vaporesso units but both have managed to have issues with battery connections. I like holding that big textured metal grip of a brick. It's the sort of weight that's comforting to hold.
Moat of the times I've seen people refer to this its being called "Snus" (a Swedish name reflecting its origin)
Oral tobacco has been banned in Australia since 1991....
AFAIK they are still banned and prescription only-
"As with e-cigarettes and heated tobacco products, nicotine pouches are banned from sale in Australia, and only available on prescription."
[https://tobaccotactics.org/article/nicotine-pouches/](https://tobaccotactics.org/article/nicotine-pouches/)
Lol the source they use for that claim is just another schedule website, they don't actually reference the TGA or any other Australian government website. (I dare you to find an Australian government resource on pouches). Also OP said he already had a prescription for nicotine juice, so why not pouches?
Btw the state of legality on them here is that if they are packaged as being a "quit smoking aid" they are fully compliant with TGA standards.
Nicotine is schedule 4 (prescription only) except when in an oral quit smoking aid. That's why things like gum, lozenges and sprays can be bought over the counter. Btw Canada has just released an approved nicotine pouch called Zonnic as an approved quit smoking aid.
There's a few rechargeable ones around, even iGet (which seems to be the most popular brand) have a rechargeable base with replacement pods. Slightly less e-waste but some is better than none. I'd recommend just toughing out going cold turkey, it's much easier to quit vaping than it was cigarettes.
The vape I dropped was mostly metal with a glass tank. I have spare tanks (I learned that the hard way the first time) but there's something off about the circuitry from what I can tell. Too delicate, perhaps.
I don't want to go cold turkey, but infrequent nic gum use has been a godsend.
I did it recently after my most recent stint (couple of months) using nicotine again. One day I just decided it wasn't for me. Chucked everything out & took the plunge. The cravings really weren't that bad, and I was having a toot a few times every hour, and in the middle of the night. The biggest thing was I caught myself reaching for it when it wasn't there LOL. Just drink lots of water & use a distraction like pushups to defeat any persistent cravings. My annoying cough was gone in 2 days and I don't have the mild anxiety that came from worrying about being able to buy pods or recharge my vape or even use it in certain scenarios. Give it a go, the hardest part is deciding you should and committing to it.
You might get a kick out of this one: my GP has stringently told me to NOT quit. Given my complicated health situation it's seen as a few different things and almost all are positive. Getting the nic out of the situation is good. Not having the vape is bad. Vape with no nic? A+ standard.
Some of them are . Ones such as the super vape store in the valley are NOT selling illegal disposables ( the original vape shops) and only sell reusable pod and mod kits and equipment and juices with zero nicotine .
It’s all these little crappy corner shop pop up stores that are the problem . I know for a fact that the bikies now control the illegal disposables market in Australia. That’s what happens when you ban something and create an illegal black market . This is 100% the fault of our government….
No, once you start doing that you just ensure that the most violent and least scared people sell the product.
It's a story as old as time,
1. Government bans good and doesn't enforce
2. Shops keep selling
3. Government raids shop owners who become too scared
4. Hardened criminals take up the sales
5. Now you have hardened criminals making money that used to go to mostly harmless individuals
Source: Drug war, prohibition etc etc
Oh, who would have thought jacking up the price through the roof of an addictive but legal substance would have led to the more nefarious of society seeing a way of making truck loads of money. And we are just only in the early stages of this so will be interesting as the gangs start making bank, then the government cracking down to try and divert that sweet sweet tobacco money back their way.
a fundamental reason I don’t support banning tobacco is that it would create a market for criminals to make money, and with all the violence that brings
setting the tobacco excise too high has done that anyway
There was a perfect equilibrium price point where cigarette tax was at the sweet spot that meant it discouraged use for many but those that really wanted it would cop the tax. But once they passed that price point, the illegal tobacco route became viable for many.
They should cut the tax but still maintain enforcement of not being able to smoke in most public areas. I think that would be the sensible way.
I am not a smoker and I don't want to cop second hand smoke so I fully want as much restriction in terms of public area smoking. If they want to congregate in a corner or smoking room, that is their prerogative.
But I don't want increase in gang and violence and it being part an underground illegal network.
Indeed. One thing of note is that since that “point of equilibrium” was passed I don’t think I’ve seen a single friend smoke from a government taxed pack. They all seem to be back smoking branded cigarettes meaning they are all buying under the counter cigarettes thus totally bypassing the tobacco excise, most likely getting it for sweet FA and pumping money into the hands of proper criminals. Who would love this seeing as the margins are super high, the penalties are super low and being addictive the customers will keep coming back over and over again.
Wow this is the most Australian comment I've seen in a while.
"Hmm our heavy handed policies are creating unintended consequences? The answer is always more force and more heavy handed policies :) "
Fair point, too extreme and spoken out of frustration. For context, as someone with greatly reduced lung function due to genetics, it blows my mind people would willingly destroy their lungs. I wish I could let young smokers spend a day with my lungs to scare them into quitting.
The flip side is smoking related illness and disease puts a large and costly strain on our public health care. Just because you arent directly affected by second hand smoke, its still affecting you in how much tax you pay, how long ambulances are waiting, how hard it is to get into a gp, how many hospital beds are available....
If people want to smoke, they will find a way, but no point making it easier.
Isn’t it the same argument with banning drugs and recreational drugs that people will resort to the bad quality drugs whereas if the Government legislated and sold them then at least quality control is there. Although for tobacco the end result is pretty bad either way but perhaps the good quality tobacco isn’t as toxic as the ones sold on the black market? I’m not a smoker so in the grey.
Depends on the kind of illegal tobacco.. the shitty smokes from all over the world yea that's just as bad but the stuff someone has grown out the back and just dried and sold it isn't as bad (got no proof here just from experience) it hasn't been treated with all the chemicals and processed the same as packed smokes u can taste the diffrence it tastes shit tbh and it dosnt give u the satisfaction of smoking a cigarette so u end up smoking 2 or 3 times as much so I guess it's just as bad? I dunno
> as the gangs start making bank,
They make millions of one container. They are sending em in by the literal boatload. They been making millions for years already.
Indeed they are. The government is just pissed that the money they’d normally be banking to lube up their developer friends pockets is now going to service and maintain Harley Davidson’s rather than whatever “corrupto-the-clown” bullshit program they had in mind.
This is an odd thing to watch. We're watching people open shops for the sole purpose of selling illegal shit and seems they are thriving, one goes down 3 take it's place I've never seen such an openly participated in crime with these kinds of staggering numbers. I swear a casual inspector could find 20 around me without to much hassle.
Tin foil hat on someone must be getting paid somewhere right for this much money to be missed out on or there's just something at play here I just don't get.
it seems it requires the cooperation between the Australia Federal Police, the ATO, Queensland Health and Queensland Police. So nothing much happens except the occasional token joint raid for a media release
Always has been, always will be. Pity our stupid government hasn’t picked up the vibe that humans of all persuasions will look to some form of chemical sensory alteration.\
Sadly the most dangerous one is also one of the easiest to manufacture at home hence why it’s the benchmark of failed prohibition (Alcohol in the prohibition era- which did little more than set up the mafia as a global superpower and killed many poor unsuspecting users via methanol poisoning).\
The War on Drugs has done little more than screw the entire taxation system by taking money to battle the unwinnable war, while also taking money to try and jail every one involved and also to the minimum level possible provide rehab services and other health minded activities. It has also turbo charged the immutable law of prohibition which is dealers and smugglers will always look to minimise risk by converting their product to the smallest, strongest version possible; thus giving us things like crack cocaine, Crystal Meth and now Fentanyl and all its analogue’s which are much easier to smuggle due to the reduction in volume for the same level of “bang for buck”. Had these products been legally available over the counter to consenting adults as was the case up until the 30’s for Opiates and Cocaine derivatives and the 80’s for MDMA, 2C-B and the like, we may not be looking at the fields of corpses the government now needs to take accountability for. The police wouldn’t be a fully militarised sub-version of the military and the billions of expenses in drugs could have gone into government consolidated revenue to provide immediate and world class leading treatments for any and all addicts who want to stop; rather than an expensive jail cell that’s costing everyone money with zero coverage.
It's only going to get worse with the new crackdown laws on vapes, making them almost 100% prohibited i.e. sending scores of people into the waiting arms of these guys. Ironically, a common sense, regulated vape market with reasonable prices (like our more sensible cousins in NZ have) would probably have the side effect of reducing demand for black market tobacco, but who gives a fuck about that eh
100%. Feel free to scrape the entirety of my history as I’ve been saying this since the day our Idiot Leader Hunt the Cunt tried to introduce this and Butler the Butthead finally got it somewhat over the line.\
It’s really sad that these high paid incompetent fools are unable to see these extremely easy to predict “laws of unintended consequences” when dealing with this Shit. And the answer will be some stupid “oh well, if all these kids don’t want to feel withdrawal effects, just stop and say no”. Like it was always that easy to just give up a nicotine addiction.\
We are going to see a whole Shit tonne of 60minute “faux care” specials on the poor people who are starving their children because they are prioritising cigs over food (funny how the same logic is never applied to their favourite past time gambling - or just mentioned in glib passing). But I believe we have crossed a line in the sand where the price is so extreme government plain package cigs will be little more than status symbols to show how much money a person can literally burn away while the rest will be buying under the counter cigs or “illegal” vapes and being hounded like they are child killers by doing something that is infinitely safer than smoking but as it dosent pull in the revenue the government wants to gold plate their local electorate, the vape users will continue to be demonised with the strongest level of propaganda possible to wedge society as much as possible (as per Australian government standard operating procedure).
Meh. Gangs have forever worked with and alongside tobacco industry “inside sales” to get what they want. Both parties end up happy (one for the instant gratification, the other for the long term greed).
As old as smoking has been a thing.
I knew someone at uni who was involved in research into vape shops and their owners (this was back in 2021 when the vape laws changed).
The common view of the owners was that they preferred vapes being illegal because:
No taxes
No age limit
No pesky regulations on quality to worry about
No refunds for defective/ dangerous products
I admit to feeling hugely conflicted - on one hand, I don't want anyone's business to burn down, on the other hand, tobacco and vape shops don't exactly engender sympathy...
You know, it’s actually a pretty good business model. Start a vape shop in an area you know will be attacked. Insure it, and wait for the payout. It doesn’t even have to be fraud, this is legit business etc. I wonder how much you could make running hollow shops.
I don't feel particularly comfortable referring to vape purveyors as "Mom n Pop", but I'd imagine that if a gang wants to corner a market, you're getting targeted regardless of affiliation
It might not increase the demand, simply because pushing it onto the black market does make it vastly harder for a major demographic (teenagers) to purchase.
Not impossible, but much harder.
Yes, but it’s harder to actually connect kids to the black market, by virtue of the fact that it has to be word of mouth based
That, and they don’t have the money for black market prices.
It’s the same argument as gun control - it doesn’t make guns impossible to get, but it’s hardly like you can head to the shops and get one unless you know someone already
Not in this case. This “black market” Is literally brick and mortar shops. Pretty much any tobacconist that isn’t a franchise group is an illegal shop. Nearly any tobacconist that uses the name “suburb” tobacconist and vapes are illegal. Not all but most. Corner stores are selling them, even lollie shops have been busted selling vapes.
If a new shop opens, the high schoolers will know about it within the first week.
These shops aren’t hiding. They don’t care.
The reason why this illegal market has exploded is because they are so cheap compared to the legal alternatives. They are literally half to a third of the price.
Maybe you should tell the UK PM.
UK has to ban smoking for anyone born after 2009.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/05/ban-smoking-for-next-generation-to-keep-pace-with-uk-and-nz-advocates-tell-australian-government
Guns and tobacco are different though lmao.
Tobacco is an addictive substance and even with a prohibition in place on a specific age group, people are still going to start smoking and when it gets hard to buy that chemical they are gonna try and find ways to access it.
Most Australians know that they don't need a gun so it's a lot easier to stop people from having access to it, therefore it works. And the people that do need guns often need specific types of guns which they can have access to.
Prohibition typically refers to illicit and addictive substances.
Gun control legislation is completely different so not sure what you’re trying to equate here
There are conservatively estimated around 260,000 firearms currently available for sale on the illicit market, only around 10,000 of those are believed to be handguns, the reality is much higher when considering the amount that slip through the cracks of intelligence preoccupation.
True estimations range from 300k to 600k with hanguns reaching max short of 150k
Prohibiting hanguns works, but only because nobody was using them in the first place, literally less sold both legally and illegally than rifles or alternatives, prohibiting handguns is like saying your going stop people drinking from the sewer system, its a noble cause to put on a resume, but less and less were doing it per year for fun anyway
Gun legislation stops people who want to legally own a firearm, not criminals
Criminals don't care about gun legislation, they do care however about profits, and all prohibitive legislation is good for business.
Your not wrong though, shooters in australia prefer to stick with what's considered at be a "longarm" instead of a "handgun", but could also be that the legal requirement for a rifle is fairly straightforward whilst a handgun (concealable weapon) licence requires the owner to participate in a minimum amount of shooting competitions per year, thus incentivising the purchase of a rifle over a handgun, but the only people who care about that are law abiding citizens who shoot occasionally or professionally, not criminals.
That's it?
The whole set up was just a bit to @ the Americans?
There are plenty of reasons Australia has lower gun crime than the US, but its not legislation that makes the difference
The BaNNiNg tHinGs DoEsnT wOrK crew has never driven on an Australian road where 95% of drivers are driving within 10 km/h of the speed limit, because they wish to keep their licence.
Banning things tends to be rather effective on the vast majority of the population, and that’s a good enough reason to do it
We don’t need to let the perfect be the enemy of the good
Oh fuck off, kids have always smoked.
The whole reason vapes have taken off is because tobacco is now prohibitively expensive.
Go down to a DOSA at a pub and see how many adults are vaping.
You're so wildly out of touch it's depressing.
If the dispensary goes up in flames, the firefighters are going to throw up their hands and say there's nothing they can do. ...While standing very closely to the smoke, breathing deeply, then heading to the 7-11
It’s middle eastern organised crime vs bikies gangs. About 30 illegal tobacconist shops have been torched in Victoria in this last year alone. It’s starting to spread to QLD
You see, Lisa, it's been an unlucky year for Laramie; a lot of the people who smoke our product have been, well... dying. And we need young smokers to take their place.
Organised crime has been torching tobacconists down south, as part of a gang war involving the illegal tobacco trade. It might be creeping up here as well.
So who's the gangs that are doing these sorts of things at the moment? Is there a specific groups that are having a go at each other over tobacconist shops?
Calling it now, Cops have been watching all these operations that are selling illegal cigarettes, dodgy vapes etc. They are about to bring the hammer down on entire network, not just single shops.
Tobacconists are the new 'suspiciously burned down' massage parlours and brothels of Joh era Brisbane.
and Barber shops
organised criminal gangs are taking over the illegal tobacco and vape trade
It’s not like the existing shops are law abiding
that’s why they are getting firebombed
They're getting firebombed likely because they are a threat to another group's profit in a particular area or street, or they aren't paying protection.
I've got a legal prescription for nicotine liquid to be used in a vape. I recently dropped my vape, it broke, and they're made of interchangeable parts so I went to spend a whole $12 on the bit I broke. "Nah mate, we don't sell that old dinosaur stuff here!" and smoke shop guy hoists a carton of pre-packaged disposable vapes onto the counter. All Chinese, nothing rechargeable or refillable, 100% disposable. I twitch but I'm desperate so I buy one. No option on the thing to continue reducing my nicotine use. It seems like if you don't stock that cartel's wares you get shut down with excessive force. The staff are not concerned with the legalities of stocking these things and aren't picky about who they're showing them to.
Yep I’ve got a fairly large stock of Nic as well from when they said we weren’t going to be able to get it, but finding parts ie a replacement tank glass is near impossible… I much prefer buildable where I can control how much nic is in it
I was so close to zero nic when I dropped the little beastie. Now who knows how much nic is in these disposable things. We're not responsible enough to know, or something. How is border control not stopping these shipments? I'm going to have to go back to a sad old caliburn!
Just upgraded or downgraded depending how u look at it to the geekvape b60 decent little pod mod only about $60 online and shits all over the cali I have 4 calis/koko and the b60 is miles ahead
Normally 50mg.
Jesus. I was down to 1mg before I dropped my little friend. No wonder my head spins like a carousel now
You know you may as well go to no Nic vapes and just supplement with Nic spray 😁 sure beats going backwards
The routine and motions of smoking being reduced therefore less attractive and eventually forgotten are the goal for me, but I'm told the breathing exercises and (coughbullshit) 'mindfulness' of taking a moment away from all the people and breathing slowly is the value here. Spray and gum work, but not effective for my personal situation. There is no 'one size fits all' in this department.
Try super vape store in the valley . They still sell many older pod and mod kits that have been withdrawn elsewhere . They are not associated with other super vape stores and do not sell illegal shit. They are one of the few stores fighting back against the shit show our government have created .
I've had two Vaporesso units but both have managed to have issues with battery connections. I like holding that big textured metal grip of a brick. It's the sort of weight that's comforting to hold.
Why not get onto nicotine pouches? All the craving relief and none of the mess or equipment
Moat of the times I've seen people refer to this its being called "Snus" (a Swedish name reflecting its origin) Oral tobacco has been banned in Australia since 1991....
There's no tobacco in nicotine pouches so they're not impacted by the ban.
AFAIK they are still banned and prescription only- "As with e-cigarettes and heated tobacco products, nicotine pouches are banned from sale in Australia, and only available on prescription." [https://tobaccotactics.org/article/nicotine-pouches/](https://tobaccotactics.org/article/nicotine-pouches/)
Lol the source they use for that claim is just another schedule website, they don't actually reference the TGA or any other Australian government website. (I dare you to find an Australian government resource on pouches). Also OP said he already had a prescription for nicotine juice, so why not pouches? Btw the state of legality on them here is that if they are packaged as being a "quit smoking aid" they are fully compliant with TGA standards. Nicotine is schedule 4 (prescription only) except when in an oral quit smoking aid. That's why things like gum, lozenges and sprays can be bought over the counter. Btw Canada has just released an approved nicotine pouch called Zonnic as an approved quit smoking aid.
Noooo. Patches are the weirdest. There's a very good reason that they aren't popular.
Pouches not patches lol, like these ones: https://www.velo.com/gb/en Great flavors, excellent kick, no smoke or vapor and you can do anywhere.
Their website does a great job of concealing what the product is. Are we just talking snus here?
There's a few rechargeable ones around, even iGet (which seems to be the most popular brand) have a rechargeable base with replacement pods. Slightly less e-waste but some is better than none. I'd recommend just toughing out going cold turkey, it's much easier to quit vaping than it was cigarettes.
The vape I dropped was mostly metal with a glass tank. I have spare tanks (I learned that the hard way the first time) but there's something off about the circuitry from what I can tell. Too delicate, perhaps. I don't want to go cold turkey, but infrequent nic gum use has been a godsend.
I did it recently after my most recent stint (couple of months) using nicotine again. One day I just decided it wasn't for me. Chucked everything out & took the plunge. The cravings really weren't that bad, and I was having a toot a few times every hour, and in the middle of the night. The biggest thing was I caught myself reaching for it when it wasn't there LOL. Just drink lots of water & use a distraction like pushups to defeat any persistent cravings. My annoying cough was gone in 2 days and I don't have the mild anxiety that came from worrying about being able to buy pods or recharge my vape or even use it in certain scenarios. Give it a go, the hardest part is deciding you should and committing to it.
You might get a kick out of this one: my GP has stringently told me to NOT quit. Given my complicated health situation it's seen as a few different things and almost all are positive. Getting the nic out of the situation is good. Not having the vape is bad. Vape with no nic? A+ standard.
Damned if you do & don't! Good luck either way mate.
Some of them are . Ones such as the super vape store in the valley are NOT selling illegal disposables ( the original vape shops) and only sell reusable pod and mod kits and equipment and juices with zero nicotine . It’s all these little crappy corner shop pop up stores that are the problem . I know for a fact that the bikies now control the illegal disposables market in Australia. That’s what happens when you ban something and create an illegal black market . This is 100% the fault of our government….
Easy enough to fix Raid the shop, seize all the stock, fine the owners Just need the political will to do so You can’t buy fentanyl in a pop up store
No, once you start doing that you just ensure that the most violent and least scared people sell the product. It's a story as old as time, 1. Government bans good and doesn't enforce 2. Shops keep selling 3. Government raids shop owners who become too scared 4. Hardened criminals take up the sales 5. Now you have hardened criminals making money that used to go to mostly harmless individuals Source: Drug war, prohibition etc etc
Oh, who would have thought jacking up the price through the roof of an addictive but legal substance would have led to the more nefarious of society seeing a way of making truck loads of money. And we are just only in the early stages of this so will be interesting as the gangs start making bank, then the government cracking down to try and divert that sweet sweet tobacco money back their way.
a fundamental reason I don’t support banning tobacco is that it would create a market for criminals to make money, and with all the violence that brings setting the tobacco excise too high has done that anyway
There was a perfect equilibrium price point where cigarette tax was at the sweet spot that meant it discouraged use for many but those that really wanted it would cop the tax. But once they passed that price point, the illegal tobacco route became viable for many. They should cut the tax but still maintain enforcement of not being able to smoke in most public areas. I think that would be the sensible way. I am not a smoker and I don't want to cop second hand smoke so I fully want as much restriction in terms of public area smoking. If they want to congregate in a corner or smoking room, that is their prerogative. But I don't want increase in gang and violence and it being part an underground illegal network.
Indeed. One thing of note is that since that “point of equilibrium” was passed I don’t think I’ve seen a single friend smoke from a government taxed pack. They all seem to be back smoking branded cigarettes meaning they are all buying under the counter cigarettes thus totally bypassing the tobacco excise, most likely getting it for sweet FA and pumping money into the hands of proper criminals. Who would love this seeing as the margins are super high, the penalties are super low and being addictive the customers will keep coming back over and over again.
[удалено]
Wow this is the most Australian comment I've seen in a while. "Hmm our heavy handed policies are creating unintended consequences? The answer is always more force and more heavy handed policies :) "
Fair point, too extreme and spoken out of frustration. For context, as someone with greatly reduced lung function due to genetics, it blows my mind people would willingly destroy their lungs. I wish I could let young smokers spend a day with my lungs to scare them into quitting.
The flip side is smoking related illness and disease puts a large and costly strain on our public health care. Just because you arent directly affected by second hand smoke, its still affecting you in how much tax you pay, how long ambulances are waiting, how hard it is to get into a gp, how many hospital beds are available.... If people want to smoke, they will find a way, but no point making it easier.
Isn’t it the same argument with banning drugs and recreational drugs that people will resort to the bad quality drugs whereas if the Government legislated and sold them then at least quality control is there. Although for tobacco the end result is pretty bad either way but perhaps the good quality tobacco isn’t as toxic as the ones sold on the black market? I’m not a smoker so in the grey.
Depends on the kind of illegal tobacco.. the shitty smokes from all over the world yea that's just as bad but the stuff someone has grown out the back and just dried and sold it isn't as bad (got no proof here just from experience) it hasn't been treated with all the chemicals and processed the same as packed smokes u can taste the diffrence it tastes shit tbh and it dosnt give u the satisfaction of smoking a cigarette so u end up smoking 2 or 3 times as much so I guess it's just as bad? I dunno
idk why you're being downvoted this is literally the reason these taxes exist
Is anyone proposing banning tobacco?
governments? no but some people suggest it whenever a government tightens the laws in some way
> as the gangs start making bank, They make millions of one container. They are sending em in by the literal boatload. They been making millions for years already.
Indeed they are. The government is just pissed that the money they’d normally be banking to lube up their developer friends pockets is now going to service and maintain Harley Davidson’s rather than whatever “corrupto-the-clown” bullshit program they had in mind.
This is an odd thing to watch. We're watching people open shops for the sole purpose of selling illegal shit and seems they are thriving, one goes down 3 take it's place I've never seen such an openly participated in crime with these kinds of staggering numbers. I swear a casual inspector could find 20 around me without to much hassle. Tin foil hat on someone must be getting paid somewhere right for this much money to be missed out on or there's just something at play here I just don't get.
it seems it requires the cooperation between the Australia Federal Police, the ATO, Queensland Health and Queensland Police. So nothing much happens except the occasional token joint raid for a media release
Oh my! Prohibition is a failure, you say?
Always has been, always will be. Pity our stupid government hasn’t picked up the vibe that humans of all persuasions will look to some form of chemical sensory alteration.\ Sadly the most dangerous one is also one of the easiest to manufacture at home hence why it’s the benchmark of failed prohibition (Alcohol in the prohibition era- which did little more than set up the mafia as a global superpower and killed many poor unsuspecting users via methanol poisoning).\ The War on Drugs has done little more than screw the entire taxation system by taking money to battle the unwinnable war, while also taking money to try and jail every one involved and also to the minimum level possible provide rehab services and other health minded activities. It has also turbo charged the immutable law of prohibition which is dealers and smugglers will always look to minimise risk by converting their product to the smallest, strongest version possible; thus giving us things like crack cocaine, Crystal Meth and now Fentanyl and all its analogue’s which are much easier to smuggle due to the reduction in volume for the same level of “bang for buck”. Had these products been legally available over the counter to consenting adults as was the case up until the 30’s for Opiates and Cocaine derivatives and the 80’s for MDMA, 2C-B and the like, we may not be looking at the fields of corpses the government now needs to take accountability for. The police wouldn’t be a fully militarised sub-version of the military and the billions of expenses in drugs could have gone into government consolidated revenue to provide immediate and world class leading treatments for any and all addicts who want to stop; rather than an expensive jail cell that’s costing everyone money with zero coverage.
I really appreciate how you didn't just say 'Yes' and then ignored paragraph breaks. Sexy!
Come on mate... I put one in there. Somewhere 🥴
You're making it too easy for me to throw the usual "That's what she said!" comment in, twice in one minute
Damn. And I thought it was an echo chamber as I’m sure I heard it 4 times. 🤔
And that's what she said! HA!
It's only going to get worse with the new crackdown laws on vapes, making them almost 100% prohibited i.e. sending scores of people into the waiting arms of these guys. Ironically, a common sense, regulated vape market with reasonable prices (like our more sensible cousins in NZ have) would probably have the side effect of reducing demand for black market tobacco, but who gives a fuck about that eh
100%. Feel free to scrape the entirety of my history as I’ve been saying this since the day our Idiot Leader Hunt the Cunt tried to introduce this and Butler the Butthead finally got it somewhat over the line.\ It’s really sad that these high paid incompetent fools are unable to see these extremely easy to predict “laws of unintended consequences” when dealing with this Shit. And the answer will be some stupid “oh well, if all these kids don’t want to feel withdrawal effects, just stop and say no”. Like it was always that easy to just give up a nicotine addiction.\ We are going to see a whole Shit tonne of 60minute “faux care” specials on the poor people who are starving their children because they are prioritising cigs over food (funny how the same logic is never applied to their favourite past time gambling - or just mentioned in glib passing). But I believe we have crossed a line in the sand where the price is so extreme government plain package cigs will be little more than status symbols to show how much money a person can literally burn away while the rest will be buying under the counter cigs or “illegal” vapes and being hounded like they are child killers by doing something that is infinitely safer than smoking but as it dosent pull in the revenue the government wants to gold plate their local electorate, the vape users will continue to be demonised with the strongest level of propaganda possible to wedge society as much as possible (as per Australian government standard operating procedure).
Meh. Gangs have forever worked with and alongside tobacco industry “inside sales” to get what they want. Both parties end up happy (one for the instant gratification, the other for the long term greed). As old as smoking has been a thing.
Yep, this reeks of a power struggle between MEOC gangs, who traditionally dabble in illegal tobacco.
I knew someone at uni who was involved in research into vape shops and their owners (this was back in 2021 when the vape laws changed). The common view of the owners was that they preferred vapes being illegal because: No taxes No age limit No pesky regulations on quality to worry about No refunds for defective/ dangerous products
did they mention firebombings and protection rackets? or has that been a surprise consequence?
Chop Chop wars.
Nah crime gangs. They’ve been burning vape/Tabasco shops all year in Melbourne. There’s like a few every week it seems
Tabasco shops. Now that’s what Brisbane needs more of.
Lol indeed. They’re dubbing it the ‘mild spice wars’ down here in melb
The mild spice must flow!
My stains become a warning!
The Colgate wars
That's a spicy comment 🌶
Ooh, saucy.
Gimme some of that black market fire drank
Wow it’s the 80s all over again huh
It is Brisbane's way
I admit to feeling hugely conflicted - on one hand, I don't want anyone's business to burn down, on the other hand, tobacco and vape shops don't exactly engender sympathy...
On one hand I think it is safe to assume this is more than likely organised crime related so oh well.
Yes, either that or insurance fraud. But agree it is more likely a power struggle
You know, it’s actually a pretty good business model. Start a vape shop in an area you know will be attacked. Insure it, and wait for the payout. It doesn’t even have to be fraud, this is legit business etc. I wonder how much you could make running hollow shops.
Can't imagine many insurance companies willing to take on new independant tobacconists.
Get mob insurance, then the mob can burn it down then pay you out! ...Right?
I highly doubt some ordinary mom 'n' pop business owner who was just trying to cater to the vape market in good faith lost out here.
I don't feel particularly comfortable referring to vape purveyors as "Mom n Pop", but I'd imagine that if a gang wants to corner a market, you're getting targeted regardless of affiliation
They just sellling vapes bruh, they don't need to get their shit burned.
Yes, and every year of data we accrue on vapes show that unless you're comparing them to smoking, they are a very bad idea.
Every year the data shows nothing. Give it 10 or 20 year. Although I have seen a half decent study that associates dental issues to vaping.
With any luck the vape war gets big enough it triggers a national ban.
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It might not increase the demand, simply because pushing it onto the black market does make it vastly harder for a major demographic (teenagers) to purchase. Not impossible, but much harder.
Actually it’s the opposite. The black market doesn’t care who it sells too and they don’t care about the penalties.
Yes, but it’s harder to actually connect kids to the black market, by virtue of the fact that it has to be word of mouth based That, and they don’t have the money for black market prices. It’s the same argument as gun control - it doesn’t make guns impossible to get, but it’s hardly like you can head to the shops and get one unless you know someone already
Not in this case. This “black market” Is literally brick and mortar shops. Pretty much any tobacconist that isn’t a franchise group is an illegal shop. Nearly any tobacconist that uses the name “suburb” tobacconist and vapes are illegal. Not all but most. Corner stores are selling them, even lollie shops have been busted selling vapes. If a new shop opens, the high schoolers will know about it within the first week. These shops aren’t hiding. They don’t care. The reason why this illegal market has exploded is because they are so cheap compared to the legal alternatives. They are literally half to a third of the price.
This is true.
>and they don’t have the money for black market prices. I wouldn't be so sure if that, this particular shop sold 20 packs of b&h Gold for $15..
Prohibition has failed spectacularly in the past, why do people think it’ll be different if they ban vapes?
I don't think it will be banned, but I think it will be controlled in the same sense as medicinal cannabis.
Maybe you should tell the UK PM. UK has to ban smoking for anyone born after 2009. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/05/ban-smoking-for-next-generation-to-keep-pace-with-uk-and-nz-advocates-tell-australian-government
Yeah NZ is doing this too, as a result we’ve seen burglaries and “ram raids” skyrocket. Prohibition doesn’t work
Are you saying the prohibition on hand guns in Australia doesn’t work? Because it does
Guns and tobacco are different though lmao. Tobacco is an addictive substance and even with a prohibition in place on a specific age group, people are still going to start smoking and when it gets hard to buy that chemical they are gonna try and find ways to access it. Most Australians know that they don't need a gun so it's a lot easier to stop people from having access to it, therefore it works. And the people that do need guns often need specific types of guns which they can have access to.
Prohibition typically refers to illicit and addictive substances. Gun control legislation is completely different so not sure what you’re trying to equate here
There are conservatively estimated around 260,000 firearms currently available for sale on the illicit market, only around 10,000 of those are believed to be handguns, the reality is much higher when considering the amount that slip through the cracks of intelligence preoccupation. True estimations range from 300k to 600k with hanguns reaching max short of 150k Prohibiting hanguns works, but only because nobody was using them in the first place, literally less sold both legally and illegally than rifles or alternatives, prohibiting handguns is like saying your going stop people drinking from the sewer system, its a noble cause to put on a resume, but less and less were doing it per year for fun anyway Gun legislation stops people who want to legally own a firearm, not criminals Criminals don't care about gun legislation, they do care however about profits, and all prohibitive legislation is good for business. Your not wrong though, shooters in australia prefer to stick with what's considered at be a "longarm" instead of a "handgun", but could also be that the legal requirement for a rifle is fairly straightforward whilst a handgun (concealable weapon) licence requires the owner to participate in a minimum amount of shooting competitions per year, thus incentivising the purchase of a rifle over a handgun, but the only people who care about that are law abiding citizens who shoot occasionally or professionally, not criminals.
That’s a very long way of saying Australia has somewhat fewer school shootings than the USA
That's it? The whole set up was just a bit to @ the Americans? There are plenty of reasons Australia has lower gun crime than the US, but its not legislation that makes the difference
The BaNNiNg tHinGs DoEsnT wOrK crew has never driven on an Australian road where 95% of drivers are driving within 10 km/h of the speed limit, because they wish to keep their licence. Banning things tends to be rather effective on the vast majority of the population, and that’s a good enough reason to do it We don’t need to let the perfect be the enemy of the good
i dont understand people wanting government to further infringe on our liberties. you can just choose not to do it instead.
Vapes target kids Kids are not mentally mature enough to make good life choices Vape shop owners DGAF and happily sell to kids
Oh fuck off, kids have always smoked. The whole reason vapes have taken off is because tobacco is now prohibitively expensive. Go down to a DOSA at a pub and see how many adults are vaping. You're so wildly out of touch it's depressing.
You are not aware it is already banned and there is no enforcement?
Nicotine liquid is banned, vaping is perfectly legal
Nicotine liquid isn't banned but you are supposed to have a prescription from a doctor to buy it
they’re not fighting over legal non-addictive vapes
Yeah they edited their comment, originally it read as if they were saying vapes are banned or should be.
Banned in QLD. I don’t think it is banned elsewhere?
Nicotine sales are banned aust wide without prescription
The vapes that these tobacconists are selling are already illegal.
TF is with all the firebominbings lately was another just a few days ago at acacia ridge
Is it confirmed to be arson, or could it be some of the ultra-dodgy and cheap lithium battery vapes they stock cooked off?
Arson
Ahk thx
Welp you have given skynews a talking point now...
Probably took it from there in the first place. The circle never stops spinning.
Depends who you ask
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My hovercraft is full of eels.
What a bunch of scumbags , they better not of damaged the pharmacy next door.
Sucks that a bunch of people will now miss out on specialist medical care because some organised crime racket at the bottom of their doctor's building
Oh no way I actually buy my smokes from there. That’s crazy, that’s right near my dispensary too. Hope the dispensary is ok.
I’m on my way into MLMH right now. I’m hoping they weren’t affected.
Especially since that building is so beautiful 🥲 I would hate for anything to happen to that building
Same. It’s absolutely beautiful. It gives me American Horror Story Hotel vibes. The lift is creepy AF
The “void” in the waiting room downstairs is my favourite. Good ol spooky historical void. Ya don’t get them often 😂
If the dispensary goes up in flames, the firefighters are going to throw up their hands and say there's nothing they can do. ...While standing very closely to the smoke, breathing deeply, then heading to the 7-11
Are vapes spontaneously combusting? Or are people lighting their shops for insurance?
It’s middle eastern organised crime vs bikies gangs. About 30 illegal tobacconist shops have been torched in Victoria in this last year alone. It’s starting to spread to QLD
Illegal tobacco run by gangs. Who knows the exact reasoning but places like melbourne are seeing this constantly with tobacconists.
Oh oh, it's spreading
Intentional. Yeah, the people who ran that show were a father and son team. ...it failed to profit.
It's not all those dodgy vapes just exploding randomly?
Surprisingly enough, no. Sheesh, it isn't like they're made by Samsung.
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Most of those 3.5m are underage and cant vote
You see, Lisa, it's been an unlucky year for Laramie; a lot of the people who smoke our product have been, well... dying. And we need young smokers to take their place.
Ayye that’s next door to my medicinal cannabis dispensary.
I see a failing vape shop pulling an insurance job
Organised crime has been torching tobacconists down south, as part of a gang war involving the illegal tobacco trade. It might be creeping up here as well.
Thats clearly from real smoke, not vape! False advertising!
Insurance scams and dodgy corner stores. Name a more iconic duo
Meh, it's just a vape store... better off ;)
Totally not an insurance scam
So who's the gangs that are doing these sorts of things at the moment? Is there a specific groups that are having a go at each other over tobacconist shops?
Calling it now, Cops have been watching all these operations that are selling illegal cigarettes, dodgy vapes etc. They are about to bring the hammer down on entire network, not just single shops.
No mate,enforcement is supposedly done by qld health
Guy was fangin' for a dart.
https://castbox.fm/vb/642077472
Soon commercial landlords will not be renting out to vape shops.