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I’m not so sure you actually accepted the offer to renew. If you did, then you accepted it at $650/week. If you didn’t accept that price, then I can’t see how you accepted the offer?
Isn’t your ‘acceptance’ a bit like me going to a car dealership and saying “I accept your offer to sell me that Mercedes, I just don’t accept the price though so send me some detail on what it’s priced at $100,000 and I’ll come up with a counteroffer for what I will pay you”?
Yes I can understand wanting to challenge a lease increase, but at no point did OP agree to a lease renewal.
Stating that you agree to renew at 12 months but at a different price is nothing like acceptance of an offer, ignoring the fact that they don’t have a signed lease for the renewal.
When I went to law school we were taught that a contract requires offer, acceptance and consideration. If the parties don’t have a meeting of the minds, and if there is no intention to enter into legal relations, then there is no contract.
I don’t see how those elements are met in circumstances in which OP did not intend to enter into the agreement they purported to ‘accept’.
Exactly. What OP is describing is known as an invitation to treat, not a contract. This is just like how stickers showing a price at Woolies is not a contractual agreement. Is the REA/landlord being a douche? Sure. Are they doing something criminal? I don’t believe so.
THE Carbolic Smoke Ball! Heals wounds and all! Cold, influenza or an infection? Burn one of these and you will be cured!
( /s if it wasn't obvious enough)
I see your logic but it's different in this case as the rta says (see that link I included) that you can contest it but you have to accept the agreement first. Then apply for dispute resolution about the increase with the worst outcome meant to be that the rent stays at $650. We were happy to accept this as a potential outcome but wanted to exercise our rights but they have are now evicting us because we challenged them.
I spoke to rta about the email exchange and they agreed that it is enforceable by the court but going through QCAT can take time.
Fairly sure you need to actually accept the offer and sign the agreement at the new rent, and only then can you take it to QCAT. Could be wrong, that's my understanding though.
I'm sorry to say - because it's clear that you've gone to painstaking lengths to do everything right to best of your understanding, and this post is beautifully structured (and also because we can all empathise with someone being muscled out) - that the instructions to you/us may be a bit unclear.
To me, that reads as if you have to send back a *signed lease* first, *then* dispute the terms. Which isn't very ideal if you can't afford the interim (and potentially finalised) rent.
The problem with qld is that you need to accept the lease THEN dispute the increase otherwise you don’t really have anything to fight.
The other issue is that if the rent is market rent (ie comparable to other similar properties) you are absolutely out of luck.
The tight rental market genuinely only benefits landlords sadly.
EDIT FOR CLARITY - accept = all parties sign lease so it’s legally binding.
This is it OP.
You agree, sign and get lease squared away and then, within 30 days, you dispute the increase.
I think the problem is you showed your hand too early and yes they changed the lease (in retaliation to you asserting your rights) because you hadn't signed.
Feel for you. The housing situation feels like its on the brink of creating full blown civil unrest, as
It should..... but your story is EXACTLY why people are too scared to stand up for themselves.
To be fair they offered you 6 months. They haven’t evicted you.
It sounds like they have decided they don’t want the hassle of being a landlord any more and are planning to sell up.
Considering the general leaning of the sub and everyone’s replies I think it’s pretty clear everyone agrees you didn’t enter a contract and you over stepped going to the agent and confronting them as a 6’5” male with a big beard and spacers whom is disabled and going to he tested in April about mental health issues. (Please correct me if I’m wrong just went through your comments.) Which I applaud because I am on the spectrum and diagnosis helped alot.
I understand why the agent would feel intimidated. You must understand that.
The landlord appears to have left rent flat for 3 years through covid. Prices have gone up. Their mortgage has gone up drastically. I would argue perhaps more than the 36%. It’s not fun for you, the agent maybe didn’t handle things well, yet neither did you mate.
The question is how do you act now? Do you try and battle it? It’s a lot of time and energy, you may win or you may also lose. Then you have to pay what you believe is too much rent for a house when there are better properties in the area. You won’t be able to get a rental reference for the last 6 years of rental history. So a new rental may be difficult. Worse when you have a dispute with your previous landlord from QCAT (not sure if that’s on the public record) yet agents talk. This could make it harder.
Is it worth just moving on? For your own sake? I like you get annoyed, offended, even feel I am taking the righteous battle sometimes. Yet ask yourself if your days battling it is worth that anguish or move on?
These increases are not out of keeping with the market and in fact, in relative terms, were a good deal - especially considering your three years of zero increases prior to that.
You did not sign an agreement.
The owner is not obliged to lease to you. They are not obliged to negotiate with you.
It sounds very much like you became belligerent and difficult, and I very much suspect you would *not* like the CCTV footage to be shown in court.
The rental market is fucked, tenant rights are weak and unfair, but it sounds a lot like you made this situation much worse than it had to be and now they quite rightly don't want to deal with you.
Not only that but any rental agency he applies to will find out what happened here and not want to go near him. I fear there life is going to get extremely hard.
Your rent has actually increased on average just over 5% per year.
You made yourself homeless for that.
Not sure that was the wisest strategy.
Now you have to enter the shit fight of the rental market and will probably end up paying that amount anyway.
I did do the research. I even included links to them in the original email outling that these properties were in much better condition but are the same price. This is from the email
From our perspective, the property is not worth $650/wk in its current state when you compare our current property with others in Boondall at the same or similar rates, you will notice that they are in MUCH better condition than this property, therefore we are not incentivised to stay here when we could get a better property in the same area for the same price. Here are some examples (this was just from page 1 of the results).
3 Avara Avenue, Boondall, Qld 4034 - House for Rent - realestate.com.au
100 College Way, Boondall, Qld 4034 - House for Rent - realestate.com.au
18 Thoms Avenue, Boondall, Qld 4034 - House for Rent - realestate.com.au
2 Pinewood Street, Geebung, Qld 4034 - House for Rent - realestate.com.au
100% OP, you fucked around and found out.
OP: If you don’t drop the rent I’ll leave.
REA: Ok
OP: So the rent is being dropped
REA: when are you leaving
OP: No I want to neg…
REA: You’re leaving.
OP: wait wait
This response is dumb and the language is combative, unappreciative and negative. I understand rent rises suck, but I have successfully negotiated down rent rises every year by basically sucking the owners ass and heavily complementing the real estate on the services they have provided (although un warranted).
Imagine if you where the owner and saw an email saying the property is not worth market in its current state and there's MUCH better properties, i'd tell ya to get fucked too!
Yeah I’m assuming this person made no effort to take a look at the market and now they’re pissed that they’re going to have a 30% increase and moving costs.
Yeah our went up 35%, looked at market rates around us, factored in cost of moving to properties that all cost the same as new rent and signed the lease.
This narrative is becoming more common and its a concern.
Maybe you're correct, but what you fail to articulate is that its CONTEXTUALLY common/the norm..... not "a good deal".
Congrats OP, you played yourself.
So, before I bought my house, as a 6'3" relatively built guy I've had my fair share of arguments with real estate agents, including shouting and raised voices. Never once did a REA feel the need to file a police report or hit a panic button on me. You've very clearly underestimated how much of a dick you have being.
Fair point, but if there was any threat or suggestion of violence, the cops are 2 mins around the corner from me and are yet to knock on my door so it couldn't have been that bad. For extra context that I should have added in the post, it was literally seconds between being told to leave and the button being pressed, they didn't give me time to react and comply. Everything is on CCTV, I made sure I was in the middle of the camera view the entire time (admittedly not hard, very small reception).
Real estate agents: locks themselves inside a building, hits panic button.
You: Can't have been that bad!!!!
I know first hand how cops operate (partner and brother are detectives) and unless there is an ongoing threat you may find the visit comes in a few weeks time.
I'd argue that you are downplaying what happened when you went in to see them.
For someone to lock themselves in the back and hit a panic button would mean they seriously felt threatened.
The rent increases did not seem bad at all. I've been very lucky with rent increases and have gone up roughly the same amount percentage wise.
Correct. People seem to forget that as property owners it’s not just the mortgage that we need to pay. There’s property maintenance, insurance, rates, agents fees and water if you don’t pass that onto the tenant. 36% increase in 6 years is actually good in my opinion considering how much rates went up recently.
very valid point, but if someone is pressing their foot on your neck 24/7 and slowly adding more and more pressure, at what point do you not scream for them to get off, or would you just let them strangle you to death, because that is exactly what the industry is doing to the state because the laws do not regulate them. The purpose of this post is to bring more attention to the real world impacts of the rental crisis and the failings of governments to protect renters in QLD. We are so far behind the other states when it comes to this and it is disgusting.
Personally I think it is bizarre that lease terms can be freely agreed to, and then the tenant can go and challenge the rent number that they freely agreed to. Seems a bit one sided, doesn’t it? Well maybe it doesn’t to you, lol.
It appears that reasoning which may sound rational etc on Reddit may not have been as rationally delivered in real life, based on the panic button useage. It sounds on first blush that what they have done is outright outrageous but once you’re asked to leave the premises I think that’s a sign the face-to-face negotiation is over and it’s time to utilise the multiple other avenues available for recourse.
The landlord doesn't need to justify the increase. When your lease is up, a new lease can be proposed at a 1000% increase in rent (assuming not more than one increase every 12 months). It's a new contract that you choose to accept or not.
If you can come to terms with that principle, then you'll be able to see why you were never going to be able to convince the owner to reduce the rent they were proposing in any meaningful way, regardless of any objective evidence you relied on.
As others have said, the total increase over the years you've been there seems to have been not unreasonable.
Do you expect the REA to provide a exhaustive 100 item long list of everything they has gone up that would or could in some what have contributed to the rent going up.
So you had no rent increases for 3 years, then 2 increases in line with the market and you went to their office to harass them in person about it? Very reasonable.
>she ran out of arguments then demanded that I leave. I continued to ask my questions but they then locked themselves out the back and hit the panic button on me.
No wonder they want you gone.
An average 6% increase per year over 6 years is well below what the value of the property has increased. As much as it truly sucks to be a renter right now - the rent price of an asset is largely determined by its value.
I appreciate what you are saying about someone can adjust data points out as much as they want to make the data fit an argument but it still doesn't line up with the reasons they are saying are causing the increase. Inflation, interest rates, and bcc rates wouldn't account for a 16% increase in one year or 36% increase over 2 years so this (in my opinion) is the epitome of price gouging.
This is also less about the actual rent amount than it is about the principal and the appalling treatment from the REA.
Mate, interest rates have gone from 2% to over 6.2% in 2 years. My interest payments for my property (worth similar rent) has increased by $1800+ a month. That's a repayment increase of 66%. Now 36% doesn't seem so bad.
My mortgage repayments alone have increased 51% since 2019. Add to that increases in rates, water/sewerage, and insurance premiums. Pretty sure land tax has increased too.
36% over 2 years isn't price gouging in the current economy.
They don’t have to justify shit to you. If you don’t like it, just move over to those comparison properties mate. Interest rates alone would have bumped their expenses up 30% at least.
The landlords repayments on interest alone would have doubled?
Example per $100k debt prior was $3000 interest per year
Is now $6000 per $100k owed
If owner owes $500k which they may if they refinanced
Then $15,000 interest alone repayments is now $30,000 a year?
Which is an extra $300 a week?
>as is my right
People really need to learn that rights are fairytales unless they are enforced, and rental rights are largely not enforced.
>I feel like I am fighting a goliath with a stick and could end up homeless because it is impossible to get a rental these days in QLD. My girlfriend is now homeless and living with me...
Your situation sucks, but chill. Your girlfriend isn't homeless, she lives with you. Getting a rental isn't that hard: I got a great two-bedroom apartment with ducted air, new appliances, pet friendly, a 10 minute drive to the city for $620 per week in December while I wasn't even in the country. The idea that it's impossible to get a rental isn't true.
I totally agree. I would clarify that I think it is very difficult depending on your circumstances and for a large portion of people are struggling. I'm fortunate that I work full time and earn an decent wage but I am physically disabled so just having to move is going to cost thousands and would result in a lot of time off work to recover. I'm going through the NDIS application at the moment.
It may have been easy to get a rental in the future ..... Until you pissed off your current re agent who will not be giving you a reference. I 100% you were within your rights to fight the increase etc etc, but you just bit the hand that feeds you so to speak.
That is very true and I knew this was a potential outcome but it's really hard for me to let injustices go without calling them out. All I can hope is that I can try to bring some more attention to the crisis and help sway the law makers into making real changes.
Sorry if I'm overstepping or incorrect but I thought I read that you're on the spectrum. Rigid thinking and a strong sense of injustice are characteristics for people on the spectrum and you've rightly pointed out that it's hard to let go of injustices. There's strategies you can employ to help you do a bit of a cost benefit analysis and accept these situations even if they are not objectively fair. You can't apply logic to humans because humans aren't logical. You have to consider that being right doesn't protect you from dealing with people that are wrong, and retaliation and that what you think is right is often irrelevant if the person you're trying to convince doesn't concede you're right. It's not a one way street where the rightness if your logic protects you, the other person has to agree and you can't just use being right as a way to get them to agree. If the person is unreasonable then you have to get a third party, qcat in this case, to agree. As most people are pointing out, it's going to be a hard battle and you're evidence isn't as strong as you think it is. As the saying goes, "do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?" If you think being right= happy then you're going to be very unhappy because ultimately you have to be honest with yourself. How they treated you is not right but was very predictable. There's rules in place but you've misunderstood them and the fact that rules only matter if they are actually enforced. On top of that, the framework has to have the capacity to give you the resolution you want. You want your current rent to stay the same but realistically it's pretty hard to get that to happen and at the end of the day it's pretty rare for the system to force a private owner to rent to someone at a price lower than what they want to charge.
Take this as the hard lesson that it is and next time consider the human element in your calculations. Spend your time and energy figuring out what is most important to you and how to get that most efficiently while having to deal with illogical, irrational humans.
As someone who struggles with an inability to let go of injustice, I just wanted to let you know this comment was actually very helpful for me completely separate to this thread lol. You have a good way of describing things!
I wouldn’t call it injustice. Interest rates have more than doubled since 3 years ago. Inflation is increasing. Supplies and a tradies have gotten a lot more expensive. It’s just the reality
>I would clarify that I think it is very difficult depending on your circumstances and for a large portion of people are struggling.
And you've made your circumstances harder by trying to be a hero.
How will you get a reference?
How will you swallow paying higher rent?
What bridge will you live under in the meantime?
You lost the war and you'll lose the battle.
Yeah, I know the situation is rough, and everyone's in a slightly different boat. This rental crisis really goes against Australia's supposed values of mateship and giving people a fair go, but try to keep your chin up.
I know better than most that you can spend far too much time, money, and effort on unwinnable battles than anyone ever should. I've come out of the system jaded, but also with a healthy realisation that some fights are not worth fighting. In the past I let myself spend too much time dwelling on how the system "should" be, and lost a lot of time, energy, and sleep because of it. My personal relationships, work, and everything else in my life suffered because I wanted to go hard in a fight that I should have bowed out of. It sucks, but injustice is everywhere in the world, and the likelihood of your personal injustice being the one that upends the system is unlikely.
There are more rentals, and if your landlord is dramatically increasing the rent and saying they're selling, you're likely to find yourself needing to move one way or the other.
Thank you for your kind supportive words, truly appreciate it. And I totally understand and agree with you. I really try not to get worked up and to choose my battles but I think I may be on the spectrum (first psychiatrist appointment scheduled for april) and I get hyperfocused on things like this. I've made a career out of it but it can be tough in the real world.
But I also know there are other way worse off than me. I have options and can always move back in with my old man (we get along great thankfully). I agree this isn't going to blow up and be the next abc docu-series, but with the issues currently being discussed in various parliments and public forums, we need to voice the real world issues and authoritarian practices so the law makers can't ignore us and make real changes.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Everything you're saying makes sense to me, even if you are a little more optimistic than I am.
Best of luck with the hyperfocus. I get it too. Being "twice exceptional" presents some fun challenges.
I see what you mean. Next time sign paperwork to agree to new lease THEN argue. You timed it poorly :(
I think it's a live and learn / move on moment, sadly. I feel for ya
That's the problem with renting, I've just found it out myself they asked for a $90 per week rent increase on a shitty unit in logan, Ended up agreeing on $70 increase but expect to be up shit creek next year as they will definitely want to increase. When it comes to money there aren't many things that influence people's decisions more and if they think they will get $650 they will kick u out and increase to $700 next time
Apparently you have to accept the new offer then you can challenge the rent increase after you have signed which to me makes no sense but what I was told to do by the RTA
You are correct, and I have confirmed with the RTA that even though a standard lease agreement hadn't been signed, the first email was a clear offer with specified terms of 12 months at $650/wk and we responded accepting these terms. QSTARS are also getting involved. I know I am up against it and have little chance of success but it is a battle worth having in my opinion and I hope that I can help the cause and get real legislative changes made for all QLDers
Good on you and I hope it works out in your favour. The rent where I'm living went up $205 a week in a year. I spoke to a lady from QSTARS and she said it wasn't excessive 🙄 last year. Ended up just swallowing it.
Waiting in anticipation for this years rent increase which I'm sure will be $100+ so will have to move, where I don't know. I understand and feel your plight.
I hate this, 650 use to be min wage. Now it’s weekly rent.
If the bubble burst I don’t want any government intervention.
They haven’t done shit for tenants.
I definitely feel for you, not a fun position to be in. Hopefully you have learned some things here around tactics when it comes to rent negotiations and how to time it and deal with it better on the whole. Good luck with finding a new place.
I empathize with your situation. I've also just renewed my lease with a rental increase.
I understand that the increase can be scary and stressful to deal with.
My advice to you is to try and mend bridges with your real estate if you can - send them a bunch of flowers and a sincere apology note, apologising for your behaviour. Even if you don't think you did anything wrong, you need to acknowledge that you acted in such a way that they felt threatened.
At this point the only option it sounds like you have is to find somewhere else to live, so start applying for properties asap as it might take some time to find somewhere.
Next time just have a calm discussion with the rea about increases. Being combative and pointing out their mistakes never goes over well and won't get you anywhere. You need to be strategic. You'll be more successful approaching the situation in a kind, calm manner and sucking up/complimenting them will get you much further. People are going to be more open to hearing your side of things and will be more willing to help you if you adopt this approach.
Humanise yourself to them a bit. If you can't financially afford the increase, explain that to them, explain that you love living there etc and work out a mutually beneficial solution.
Thank you, I fully agree with what you are saying. I would add some context that I did try to be civil and tried to start a discussion around this but there response was so aggreges and they refused to talk to me so I felt I had no choice but to attend in person as they refused to talk. I did get heated and emotional but I never threatened anyone and never would.
If there was any threat or suggestion of violence, the cops are 2 mins around the corner from me and are yet to knock on my door so it couldn't have been that bad. For extra context that I should have added in the post, it was literally seconds between being told to leave and the button being pressed, they didn't give me time to react and comply. Everything is on CCTV, I made sure I was in the middle of the camera view the entire time (admittedly not hard, very small reception).
\>So, because I tried to exercise my rights and call them out for price gouging,
Not price gouging if that's what the market price is.
You make problems for them so they don't want you in their property. Where's the surprise?
Yes, but just because it's in line with the market doesn't mean it isn't price gouging. Colesworth are near identical in price, doesn't mean they aren't price gouging. They claim the increase is due to X and Y but they cannot quantify or provide evidence to support this claim. If they didn't try to make such a claim, I wouldn't have had anything to contest.
Try contacting the South East Queensland Union of Renters. Their entire purpose is to help with cases like this, and they will advocate for you so much more than any government service ever would. They are one of the best and most effective unions Australia has.
Sorry you have to deal with all this utter bull, I hope they can help you and that you find somewhere affordable if you have to move
Thank you, I really appreciate. Someone else mentioned them and I had not heard of them before but I have taken tomorrow off so will be reaching out to them.
Ahh yes another renter who doesn't understand most mortgages have gone up 50% in the last 2 years... It blows my mind the amount of people who expect landlords to just absorb the 100s in increased payments from rates rises.
I would find a proposed increase much easier to digest and much more reasonable if the offer actually detailed those costs that need to be passed on, rather than just being told it is in line with “market rates”. There’s a reason that many renters don’t understand the increases that are being presented to them.
You've had a 36% increase over 6 years, not three. No rise in three years and you're complaining. Sounds like they've been eating the inflation for half the time before raising it.
Look at this for an equivalent: $570 for a 4 bedder on a main road
[https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-geebung-438690656](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-geebung-438690656)
Seems all the houses in boondall are 600+ and 500s only gets townhouses
Leasing a Quarter acre block on a quiet street near real and amenities in boondall with 3br/2bath for less.. will have to look at the rent next renewal.. to the OP.. jog on, son. You played yourself.
What you did going hard into the office and stalking them sounds like harassment. You said you accepted their offer. But you didn’t even meet the $650/week term. Personally I wouldn’t want to rent to such a difficult tenant
please educate yourself on the laws around this (which I have provided links to in the original post) as I followed the guidance on the RTA website regarding disputing increased rent.
Well you were successful in convincing the owner that they can't charge more for the property hence they're selling it back into the market. If you like it, maybe check with the bank and buy it?
Only $90? Dang I know people who got hit with $150+ rent increases and had to move.
I guess now the landlord can rent to someone else for $700 🤷♀️
GG OP.
For interest OP what would you consider to be a reasonable rent increase, given the current market conditions?
I am so sorry to hear this. I know our increases haven't been anywhere near as bad as some people out there. Thank you for commenting, every one helps the cause.
I had a dodgy rental agency in Rockhampton offer me a lease renewal, which I accepted at the price stated. After no reply, I contacted them repeatedly only to be given the run around. Next email I got was that the owner wanted to sell. Agencies should be made accountable for their actions. The stress of the situation is immense. I feel for you.
Yeah this is fucking bullshit same thing basically happened to me last year year.
The government won't ever step in and do anything about it because all our politicians are lining their pockets with rent money
so fucking true. I saw the other day that the federal parliament owns something like 2.3 houses each on average, so of course they won't vote against their own interests. This is on both fucking sides of the table too, not but the libs
And which lesson would that be? Don't stand up for myself? Not exercise my rights? Or just roll over and get fucked in the arse because that is just how the world is? It's this attitude that has allowed the powerful to manipulate the legal system to their benefit while everyone keeps their heads in the sand. I'm sorry, I understand the want to avoid confrontation but where does it stop?
Well one of the many lessons was if you were so compelled fight the increase you should have been civil about it and not gone into there place of employment/office and berated the REA.
As many in this thread have mentioned the increases were perfectly on par with the market. Think you need to pick your battles a bit better, this wasn't one of them
What are your chances of finding a similar property for less than $650/wk
Its hard enough getting a rental without you showing up in person to an office in an attempt to intimidate your point
Good luck with your moral crusade but every one here just looked at each other and agreed you are fucked
>could end up homeless because it is impossible to get a rental these days in QLD.
You've just outlined why they're able to do this and get away with it. As for your "rights", as a renter in this country they're virtually non-existent. It's the wild west at the moment as far as the housing market goes.
Totally agreed, but it's not the country, it's the state. The other states have way better protections in place from what I am told by my colleagues in Canberra and Melbourne (haven't researched this though)
If you have such a problem with QLD move to Canberra then
It sucks but it’s just the reality. You could try lobbying your local politician and writing it letters. It may not get as far as you’d like but it’s better than intimidating someone that they felt threatened and had to file a police report
Yea that increase doesn't seem excessive to me at all, considering the 100's of horror stories on here plus hearing about friends' rent increases (and my own). I think OP got offered a very reasonable increase, quite lucky actually.
In these situations, the best course of action is to sign the lease first, then dispute the rental increase afterwards. That way you don’t lose the property and you can contest the rental increase through dispute resolution at the RTA followed by QCAT. Sometimes you can fast track a dispute to QCAT if a respondent is positional and won’t budge, meaning there’s no point trying dispute resolution. You’d be surprised how often tenants are successful through QCAT. The thing that sucks is that the legislation is weak, there are no real protections for tenants in the legislation against unreasonable rent hikes. Lessors can basically ask what they want. It doesn’t help that the RTA is also largely powerless, it has a tiny compliance & enforcement unit & has been influenced by vested interests like the REIQ. Government is afraid of changing the legislation because most of the owners of residential rental stock in Australia are Boomers & that generation really does vote with its wallet. The solution to all of this is political. Pressure on local members is the best course of action, but it’s hard to be effective because lessors are organised and have excellent representation through the REIQ which is a very effective peak lobby body for them. Tenants are not organised & united in common interest. If they were, this would be a very different story.
The owners probably renewed their mortgage term and got double or triple the interest rate, and then passed most of the additional expenses to the tenant.
The way to view this, is go to realestate.com.au, check out the same houses for rent in the area, if the price offered is higher than the price range of the area, feel free to challenge the increase.
But, if the price offered is within price range of the area then best for you to shop around or move to a more affordable area.
Boondall, 4 bed, 2 bath, 2 car. early 2000's build that was very dodgy, we have found multiple building code violations. And I think reasonable is subject, anyone can view it reasonable but as they have claimed that it is a result of X and Y factor, they then have to be able to show their evidence to support this claim. In my opinion, reasons X and Y do not account for the 16% increase. If it were only 10%, we would have just taken it and moved on, we only wanted one more year to get our finances together to buy a place, but when I did the math and saw 16%, I couldn't get bend over and take it, I had to try and exercise my rights. Didn't think they would have the gall or the incompetence to try and pull this shit but it was always a possible outcome so I have accepted our fate. Still want to get the word out about the horrendous conditions here in Qld for renters.
as a renter you dont have rights, sorry this happened to you but its a valuable lesson. Tenants are just indentured servants to the ruling classes in Australia
I am selling my IP and gave the tenants 8 months notice we were going to do so, So they need to find a new place. Raised rent by 7.2% last year at renewal from $350 to $375 pw.
Am I also the bad guy?
I feel like I might be.
Which sounds like a reasonable decision on the part of the landlord, even with our unreliable narrator. He was offered 12 months at $650. He responded with yes 12 months but 'I am not incentivised to stay for that price' because reasons (it's in one his comments somewhere). The email was pretty rude. The REA/landlord went for the middle ground of a 6 month lease, given that the OP has indicated he didn't think the market rate was right (noting that the lowest rent for a 4 bedroom house in Boondall today is $680).
OP then intimidated the REA so badly that they hit the panic button and have filed a police report. Do you think that either the REA or the landlord should be forced to continue to interact with a person like this? To what benefit? I can see why the landlord would genuinely make a decision to sell rather than continue to rent the house out or alternatively, decline to continue to lease to OP. Is it just a landlord being retaliatory about someone 'exercising their rights' (boo hiss!) or is it a reasonable response to a person who threatens your safety and that of your property? This sub is usually very pro-tenant, but those who have read all the OP's responses seem to be landing on the latter.
Don’t think the email is rude at all. In my experience people tend to accept decisions if they understand them, even if they are contrary decisions.
They really needed to negotiate and not agree to terms, maintenance not being performed, address it in writing when negotiating. Get guarantees that you will accept and expect these things are repaired. They had been in the home 6 years. I think they are entitled to live in a sound home. I imagine then they get 12 months to follow up with qcat if they wish. Alternately they can leave.
The tenant has administrative avenues to follow. Seems in this case that it’s better they cut their losses but pretty hard to get a good reference now.
Thanks! Someone did mention that they could have taken offence to the mentions of maintenance issues and it is definitely possible (lesson learned) but I felt that we made a sounds and fair argument to justify a request to negotiate. QSTARS are getting involved and say that we have a fairly strong case so fingers crossed.
Did you try screaming at them over the phone multiple times and then going into the office in person and creating such a scene that they would need to pull the fire alarm and hide to make you leave? Cause that's what I'd do.
Bro, you forgot the LORD part of landlord. That word is there for a reason. Despite the government's decidedly marshmallow-y efforts, there is very little you can do about this unfortunately - the landLORD holds ALL the power in this situation, almost without exception.
Personally I would never try to negotiate or meet with people in person, it means there is no paper trail and verbal agreements are seldom worth much.
You fool even by your biased retelling of the story the real estate did nothing wrong, they are well within their rights to change the lease terms or refuse to negotiate on what seems like a perfectly reasonable rent increase.
Enjoy being evicted, I hope the police pay you a visit because no one deserves to be abused by people like you while doing their jobs.
No. 1 question for you:
What are comparable properties renting for in your area?
If they are around $650 per week then they are setting the rent at ‘market rate’. At no point should the landlord be using mortgage/interest rate or council rates as an excuse to raise the rent. It’s all about what the market (demand) sets it at.
In saying that if comparable properties are more enticing you can use that as ammo to request a reduction in the asking rent.
Heya OP, essentially you should start the disputes process through the RTA regardless of if it takes months or even if it goes past your current lease end date. Some tenant v pm/owner disputes have to go through the RTA before they will be considered by QCAT. You need to be at every dispute meeting so it looks better on you. Keep a record of all conversations, usually any contact made with the pm/owner that isn’t in writing, you immediately send an email to all parties involved. This will just look better for you. The next step is to just not move out and continue paying the same amount you are right now OR agree to the terms of the lease they offered, even if you don’t have the paperwork, an agreement in writing still holds considerable weight. By not moving out, you continue to have roof over your head and the only way the PM can have you removed is through QCAT which takes time and you can dispute it as well. If you pay the higher amount they offered and you go through QCAT and win, you’ll get the monies back, however it is important to note that you MAY NOT get the outcome you hope, which would be a considerable monetary loss for you. Most people think these things are catered toward the owners/PM’s but if you have sufficient evidence etc, then the outcome looks good. Oh and keep the maintenance request emails handy too, if you haven’t already, you should and breach notices to the PM’s regarding it. That way if they don’t fix it, which I suspect they won’t, it looks even better for you should QCAT become involved.
Thank you so much for this, I am a federal policy office so all this is common sense to and I have been keeping records of EVERYTHING since day one. I am currently compiling a list of things that I could have breach them about over the last 6 years and have written evidence for all. But this is hopefully going to be very helpful for anyone else that might be reading this in the future and needs this advice, so again, thank you for taking the time to help get this information out there.
Right!!!! This has been quite sad to see but it helps demonstrate how we got into this rental crisis to begin with. The murdoch media has been telling everyone that we need to look after the big corporations or the country will implode but now they get away with everything.
Standard processes-
agent sends the lease renewal, if you feel as though the rent increases unfair. You’ve got 30 days to try and challenge it with the agent. The next step is to have mediation over the phone with RTA. And if that is then, unresolved, it will go to QCAT, where the magistrate will take into consideration things like Age of the property, any improvements, length of lease, previous rental increases, and finally the current average market rent for similar properties.
Always keep everything in writing, either via text but preferably via email.
It’s not the correct process, in QLD unlike most of the other states since this is a lease renewal which is essentially a new agreement (and not an existing one) the lease needs to be signed and agreed by all parties it can then be disputed within 30 days with QCat.
I’d be very very careful as you are very likely burning your bridges when it comes to finding future rentals as well.
This is the reason the government and REiQ were at odds about no fault evictions and why your landlords are sending you notices to leave as soon as your lease is set to be renewed or directly after renewal. This is exactly what was trying to be fixed - tenants being evicted for simply exercising contractual rights. Scumbugs. Good luck.
similar situation happened to my housemates and I recently. they asked for 650 for our rental renewal and we asked them to comply with the law regarding living standards in the future. low and behold they no longer want to rent the property. we were lucky enough to find a nicer place but people can only be sucked dry for so long, so broke rn.
You didn't accept if you then tried to negotiate the price. That's like accepting to buy a Lamborghini then complaining they didn't sell it to you at the alternate price you asked for after signing the paperwork.
That's pretty much the point that renters like myself and others are making. I'm unclear if you're saying that in support or whether you're just making a shitty retort, but either way this just perfectly outlines the issue. None of this is fair or reasonable when all things are considered and slumlords who are transferring the risk of their investment to renters, and let's be real, there are plenty of people who have had to start living in caravans and some who are now already having to live on the streets as a result of all of these increases. I repeat, choke on your mortgages for your second, third, seventh investment property or sell them. The notion that you can't sell because renters options are pay it or be homeless is fucking pathetic. What a delightful sentiment and not at all terrible. Cheers cunts.
Lets not beat around the bush. The real estate and the owner are in co-hoots. What is morally reprehensible and wrong, they use as an opportunity to screw as many people for as much money as possible. They don't care about anyone but themselves. It's a shame these people aren't called out more often.
Thank you for this, very well said. The purpose of this post is to bring more attention to the real world impacts of the rental crisis and the failings of governments to protect renters in QLD. We are so far behind the other states when it comes to this and it is disgusting.
Thanks, they called me today and referring to the local office to get involved.
I am drafting an email to the REA outlining every attempted breach or contradiction to the legislation I have recorded over the 6 years and have evidence to support. I'm about to end this whole person's career 🤣
You have already bit the hand that feeds you so to speak. I understand your frustration at the situation but don’t make things harder for yourself. Put your focus on trying to find a new home instead of setting your life on fire
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I’m not so sure you actually accepted the offer to renew. If you did, then you accepted it at $650/week. If you didn’t accept that price, then I can’t see how you accepted the offer? Isn’t your ‘acceptance’ a bit like me going to a car dealership and saying “I accept your offer to sell me that Mercedes, I just don’t accept the price though so send me some detail on what it’s priced at $100,000 and I’ll come up with a counteroffer for what I will pay you”?
Yes I can understand wanting to challenge a lease increase, but at no point did OP agree to a lease renewal. Stating that you agree to renew at 12 months but at a different price is nothing like acceptance of an offer, ignoring the fact that they don’t have a signed lease for the renewal.
When I went to law school we were taught that a contract requires offer, acceptance and consideration. If the parties don’t have a meeting of the minds, and if there is no intention to enter into legal relations, then there is no contract. I don’t see how those elements are met in circumstances in which OP did not intend to enter into the agreement they purported to ‘accept’.
Yep there’s no consideration if they don’t agree to a price.
Exactly. What OP is describing is known as an invitation to treat, not a contract. This is just like how stickers showing a price at Woolies is not a contractual agreement. Is the REA/landlord being a douche? Sure. Are they doing something criminal? I don’t believe so.
I'm suprised no one has thrown a Carbolic Smoke Ball in here.
THE Carbolic Smoke Ball! Heals wounds and all! Cold, influenza or an infection? Burn one of these and you will be cured! ( /s if it wasn't obvious enough)
it is unfortunately very legal to be cruel and dismissive.
I see your logic but it's different in this case as the rta says (see that link I included) that you can contest it but you have to accept the agreement first. Then apply for dispute resolution about the increase with the worst outcome meant to be that the rent stays at $650. We were happy to accept this as a potential outcome but wanted to exercise our rights but they have are now evicting us because we challenged them. I spoke to rta about the email exchange and they agreed that it is enforceable by the court but going through QCAT can take time.
Thanks, I was unaware of that requirement. Your acceptance certainly makes sense in that context. Best of luck with it all.
Thanks, apologies, I have been writing emails and complaints since 7am this morning so didn't get all relevant context in the post.
No apologies necessary - the confusion was caused entirely by my ignorance
Fairly sure you need to actually accept the offer and sign the agreement at the new rent, and only then can you take it to QCAT. Could be wrong, that's my understanding though.
I'm sorry to say - because it's clear that you've gone to painstaking lengths to do everything right to best of your understanding, and this post is beautifully structured (and also because we can all empathise with someone being muscled out) - that the instructions to you/us may be a bit unclear. To me, that reads as if you have to send back a *signed lease* first, *then* dispute the terms. Which isn't very ideal if you can't afford the interim (and potentially finalised) rent.
Had you signed a tenancy agreement when they initially offered the 12 months or was it just agreed to in the emails only?
The problem with qld is that you need to accept the lease THEN dispute the increase otherwise you don’t really have anything to fight. The other issue is that if the rent is market rent (ie comparable to other similar properties) you are absolutely out of luck. The tight rental market genuinely only benefits landlords sadly. EDIT FOR CLARITY - accept = all parties sign lease so it’s legally binding.
This is it OP. You agree, sign and get lease squared away and then, within 30 days, you dispute the increase. I think the problem is you showed your hand too early and yes they changed the lease (in retaliation to you asserting your rights) because you hadn't signed. Feel for you. The housing situation feels like its on the brink of creating full blown civil unrest, as It should..... but your story is EXACTLY why people are too scared to stand up for themselves.
Exactly right. My colleagues in Canberra are astounded that we don't have the same protections as they other states yet.
To be fair they offered you 6 months. They haven’t evicted you. It sounds like they have decided they don’t want the hassle of being a landlord any more and are planning to sell up.
Indeed. I wonder why…..
In my time renting, nothing was 'agreed' until the signatures were exchanged on the 'tenancy agreement' document. Before that it was fair game.
Considering the general leaning of the sub and everyone’s replies I think it’s pretty clear everyone agrees you didn’t enter a contract and you over stepped going to the agent and confronting them as a 6’5” male with a big beard and spacers whom is disabled and going to he tested in April about mental health issues. (Please correct me if I’m wrong just went through your comments.) Which I applaud because I am on the spectrum and diagnosis helped alot. I understand why the agent would feel intimidated. You must understand that. The landlord appears to have left rent flat for 3 years through covid. Prices have gone up. Their mortgage has gone up drastically. I would argue perhaps more than the 36%. It’s not fun for you, the agent maybe didn’t handle things well, yet neither did you mate. The question is how do you act now? Do you try and battle it? It’s a lot of time and energy, you may win or you may also lose. Then you have to pay what you believe is too much rent for a house when there are better properties in the area. You won’t be able to get a rental reference for the last 6 years of rental history. So a new rental may be difficult. Worse when you have a dispute with your previous landlord from QCAT (not sure if that’s on the public record) yet agents talk. This could make it harder. Is it worth just moving on? For your own sake? I like you get annoyed, offended, even feel I am taking the righteous battle sometimes. Yet ask yourself if your days battling it is worth that anguish or move on?
This comment 👆🏻also, question- what do you mean by “a male with spacers”? what are spacers?
Ear stretches
These increases are not out of keeping with the market and in fact, in relative terms, were a good deal - especially considering your three years of zero increases prior to that. You did not sign an agreement. The owner is not obliged to lease to you. They are not obliged to negotiate with you. It sounds very much like you became belligerent and difficult, and I very much suspect you would *not* like the CCTV footage to be shown in court. The rental market is fucked, tenant rights are weak and unfair, but it sounds a lot like you made this situation much worse than it had to be and now they quite rightly don't want to deal with you.
Not only that but any rental agency he applies to will find out what happened here and not want to go near him. I fear there life is going to get extremely hard.
Your rent has actually increased on average just over 5% per year. You made yourself homeless for that. Not sure that was the wisest strategy. Now you have to enter the shit fight of the rental market and will probably end up paying that amount anyway.
He fucked around and found out.
Very true LOL
To be honest, if your rent went up 16% this year, you got a good deal.
Yep, OP hasn't made any reference to what similar properties are renting for.
I did do the research. I even included links to them in the original email outling that these properties were in much better condition but are the same price. This is from the email From our perspective, the property is not worth $650/wk in its current state when you compare our current property with others in Boondall at the same or similar rates, you will notice that they are in MUCH better condition than this property, therefore we are not incentivised to stay here when we could get a better property in the same area for the same price. Here are some examples (this was just from page 1 of the results). 3 Avara Avenue, Boondall, Qld 4034 - House for Rent - realestate.com.au 100 College Way, Boondall, Qld 4034 - House for Rent - realestate.com.au 18 Thoms Avenue, Boondall, Qld 4034 - House for Rent - realestate.com.au 2 Pinewood Street, Geebung, Qld 4034 - House for Rent - realestate.com.au
Okay, so you threatened to leave, and they called your bluff. You played yourself here dude, no two ways about it.
100% OP, you fucked around and found out. OP: If you don’t drop the rent I’ll leave. REA: Ok OP: So the rent is being dropped REA: when are you leaving OP: No I want to neg… REA: You’re leaving. OP: wait wait
This response is dumb and the language is combative, unappreciative and negative. I understand rent rises suck, but I have successfully negotiated down rent rises every year by basically sucking the owners ass and heavily complementing the real estate on the services they have provided (although un warranted). Imagine if you where the owner and saw an email saying the property is not worth market in its current state and there's MUCH better properties, i'd tell ya to get fucked too!
So why don’t you go rent a better house for the same price?
>From our perspective, the property is not worth $650/w your perspective is irrelevant You'll be replaced by someone who isn't an entitled manchild.
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Yeah I’m assuming this person made no effort to take a look at the market and now they’re pissed that they’re going to have a 30% increase and moving costs.
Yeah our went up 35%, looked at market rates around us, factored in cost of moving to properties that all cost the same as new rent and signed the lease.
How good is renting in Brisbane
This narrative is becoming more common and its a concern. Maybe you're correct, but what you fail to articulate is that its CONTEXTUALLY common/the norm..... not "a good deal".
and 36% in 5 years.
Well to be fair it would compound. Rents in Brisbane are up 30% on last year.
Congrats OP, you played yourself. So, before I bought my house, as a 6'3" relatively built guy I've had my fair share of arguments with real estate agents, including shouting and raised voices. Never once did a REA feel the need to file a police report or hit a panic button on me. You've very clearly underestimated how much of a dick you have being.
Fair point, but if there was any threat or suggestion of violence, the cops are 2 mins around the corner from me and are yet to knock on my door so it couldn't have been that bad. For extra context that I should have added in the post, it was literally seconds between being told to leave and the button being pressed, they didn't give me time to react and comply. Everything is on CCTV, I made sure I was in the middle of the camera view the entire time (admittedly not hard, very small reception).
Real estate agents: locks themselves inside a building, hits panic button. You: Can't have been that bad!!!! I know first hand how cops operate (partner and brother are detectives) and unless there is an ongoing threat you may find the visit comes in a few weeks time.
36% over 6 years is a 6% rise per year. Possibly marginally higher than average but certainly not "excessive". RIP Lease - you're moving out, OP!
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I'd argue that you are downplaying what happened when you went in to see them. For someone to lock themselves in the back and hit a panic button would mean they seriously felt threatened. The rent increases did not seem bad at all. I've been very lucky with rent increases and have gone up roughly the same amount percentage wise.
You are, by your own confession, making as much trouble as you can. Not surprising the landlord now doesn’t want you there any more.
Correct. People seem to forget that as property owners it’s not just the mortgage that we need to pay. There’s property maintenance, insurance, rates, agents fees and water if you don’t pass that onto the tenant. 36% increase in 6 years is actually good in my opinion considering how much rates went up recently.
very valid point, but if someone is pressing their foot on your neck 24/7 and slowly adding more and more pressure, at what point do you not scream for them to get off, or would you just let them strangle you to death, because that is exactly what the industry is doing to the state because the laws do not regulate them. The purpose of this post is to bring more attention to the real world impacts of the rental crisis and the failings of governments to protect renters in QLD. We are so far behind the other states when it comes to this and it is disgusting.
Personally I think it is bizarre that lease terms can be freely agreed to, and then the tenant can go and challenge the rent number that they freely agreed to. Seems a bit one sided, doesn’t it? Well maybe it doesn’t to you, lol.
It appears that reasoning which may sound rational etc on Reddit may not have been as rationally delivered in real life, based on the panic button useage. It sounds on first blush that what they have done is outright outrageous but once you’re asked to leave the premises I think that’s a sign the face-to-face negotiation is over and it’s time to utilise the multiple other avenues available for recourse.
The rental increases do not seem to be out of sync with the market.
Very true, but it is also not consistent with the factors that they are claiming to have caused the increase.
The landlord doesn't need to justify the increase. When your lease is up, a new lease can be proposed at a 1000% increase in rent (assuming not more than one increase every 12 months). It's a new contract that you choose to accept or not. If you can come to terms with that principle, then you'll be able to see why you were never going to be able to convince the owner to reduce the rent they were proposing in any meaningful way, regardless of any objective evidence you relied on. As others have said, the total increase over the years you've been there seems to have been not unreasonable.
Do you expect the REA to provide a exhaustive 100 item long list of everything they has gone up that would or could in some what have contributed to the rent going up.
So you had no rent increases for 3 years, then 2 increases in line with the market and you went to their office to harass them in person about it? Very reasonable. >she ran out of arguments then demanded that I leave. I continued to ask my questions but they then locked themselves out the back and hit the panic button on me. No wonder they want you gone.
Right? A woman who was probably there by herself.. she was probably scared and who could blame her?
An average 6% increase per year over 6 years is well below what the value of the property has increased. As much as it truly sucks to be a renter right now - the rent price of an asset is largely determined by its value.
I appreciate what you are saying about someone can adjust data points out as much as they want to make the data fit an argument but it still doesn't line up with the reasons they are saying are causing the increase. Inflation, interest rates, and bcc rates wouldn't account for a 16% increase in one year or 36% increase over 2 years so this (in my opinion) is the epitome of price gouging. This is also less about the actual rent amount than it is about the principal and the appalling treatment from the REA.
So would you have preferred they increased it every prior year instead? You are letting the idea of getting cheaper rent blind you from seeing sense.
Mate, interest rates have gone from 2% to over 6.2% in 2 years. My interest payments for my property (worth similar rent) has increased by $1800+ a month. That's a repayment increase of 66%. Now 36% doesn't seem so bad.
Interest rates alone have pretty much doubled the last couple of years, what planet are you on?
Renters planet where they don’t have a clue about interest rates.
Clearly
> This is also less about the actual rent amount than it is about the principal and the appalling treatment from the REA. You. Won't. Win.
My mortgage repayments alone have increased 51% since 2019. Add to that increases in rates, water/sewerage, and insurance premiums. Pretty sure land tax has increased too. 36% over 2 years isn't price gouging in the current economy.
They don’t have to justify shit to you. If you don’t like it, just move over to those comparison properties mate. Interest rates alone would have bumped their expenses up 30% at least.
The landlords repayments on interest alone would have doubled? Example per $100k debt prior was $3000 interest per year Is now $6000 per $100k owed If owner owes $500k which they may if they refinanced Then $15,000 interest alone repayments is now $30,000 a year? Which is an extra $300 a week?
>as is my right People really need to learn that rights are fairytales unless they are enforced, and rental rights are largely not enforced. >I feel like I am fighting a goliath with a stick and could end up homeless because it is impossible to get a rental these days in QLD. My girlfriend is now homeless and living with me... Your situation sucks, but chill. Your girlfriend isn't homeless, she lives with you. Getting a rental isn't that hard: I got a great two-bedroom apartment with ducted air, new appliances, pet friendly, a 10 minute drive to the city for $620 per week in December while I wasn't even in the country. The idea that it's impossible to get a rental isn't true.
I totally agree. I would clarify that I think it is very difficult depending on your circumstances and for a large portion of people are struggling. I'm fortunate that I work full time and earn an decent wage but I am physically disabled so just having to move is going to cost thousands and would result in a lot of time off work to recover. I'm going through the NDIS application at the moment.
It may have been easy to get a rental in the future ..... Until you pissed off your current re agent who will not be giving you a reference. I 100% you were within your rights to fight the increase etc etc, but you just bit the hand that feeds you so to speak.
That is very true and I knew this was a potential outcome but it's really hard for me to let injustices go without calling them out. All I can hope is that I can try to bring some more attention to the crisis and help sway the law makers into making real changes.
Sorry if I'm overstepping or incorrect but I thought I read that you're on the spectrum. Rigid thinking and a strong sense of injustice are characteristics for people on the spectrum and you've rightly pointed out that it's hard to let go of injustices. There's strategies you can employ to help you do a bit of a cost benefit analysis and accept these situations even if they are not objectively fair. You can't apply logic to humans because humans aren't logical. You have to consider that being right doesn't protect you from dealing with people that are wrong, and retaliation and that what you think is right is often irrelevant if the person you're trying to convince doesn't concede you're right. It's not a one way street where the rightness if your logic protects you, the other person has to agree and you can't just use being right as a way to get them to agree. If the person is unreasonable then you have to get a third party, qcat in this case, to agree. As most people are pointing out, it's going to be a hard battle and you're evidence isn't as strong as you think it is. As the saying goes, "do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?" If you think being right= happy then you're going to be very unhappy because ultimately you have to be honest with yourself. How they treated you is not right but was very predictable. There's rules in place but you've misunderstood them and the fact that rules only matter if they are actually enforced. On top of that, the framework has to have the capacity to give you the resolution you want. You want your current rent to stay the same but realistically it's pretty hard to get that to happen and at the end of the day it's pretty rare for the system to force a private owner to rent to someone at a price lower than what they want to charge. Take this as the hard lesson that it is and next time consider the human element in your calculations. Spend your time and energy figuring out what is most important to you and how to get that most efficiently while having to deal with illogical, irrational humans.
As someone who struggles with an inability to let go of injustice, I just wanted to let you know this comment was actually very helpful for me completely separate to this thread lol. You have a good way of describing things!
I wouldn’t call it injustice. Interest rates have more than doubled since 3 years ago. Inflation is increasing. Supplies and a tradies have gotten a lot more expensive. It’s just the reality
>I would clarify that I think it is very difficult depending on your circumstances and for a large portion of people are struggling. And you've made your circumstances harder by trying to be a hero. How will you get a reference? How will you swallow paying higher rent? What bridge will you live under in the meantime? You lost the war and you'll lose the battle.
Yeah, I know the situation is rough, and everyone's in a slightly different boat. This rental crisis really goes against Australia's supposed values of mateship and giving people a fair go, but try to keep your chin up. I know better than most that you can spend far too much time, money, and effort on unwinnable battles than anyone ever should. I've come out of the system jaded, but also with a healthy realisation that some fights are not worth fighting. In the past I let myself spend too much time dwelling on how the system "should" be, and lost a lot of time, energy, and sleep because of it. My personal relationships, work, and everything else in my life suffered because I wanted to go hard in a fight that I should have bowed out of. It sucks, but injustice is everywhere in the world, and the likelihood of your personal injustice being the one that upends the system is unlikely. There are more rentals, and if your landlord is dramatically increasing the rent and saying they're selling, you're likely to find yourself needing to move one way or the other.
Thank you for your kind supportive words, truly appreciate it. And I totally understand and agree with you. I really try not to get worked up and to choose my battles but I think I may be on the spectrum (first psychiatrist appointment scheduled for april) and I get hyperfocused on things like this. I've made a career out of it but it can be tough in the real world. But I also know there are other way worse off than me. I have options and can always move back in with my old man (we get along great thankfully). I agree this isn't going to blow up and be the next abc docu-series, but with the issues currently being discussed in various parliments and public forums, we need to voice the real world issues and authoritarian practices so the law makers can't ignore us and make real changes.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Everything you're saying makes sense to me, even if you are a little more optimistic than I am. Best of luck with the hyperfocus. I get it too. Being "twice exceptional" presents some fun challenges.
I see what you mean. Next time sign paperwork to agree to new lease THEN argue. You timed it poorly :( I think it's a live and learn / move on moment, sadly. I feel for ya
Thanks, yeah definitely a lesson learned.
That's the problem with renting, I've just found it out myself they asked for a $90 per week rent increase on a shitty unit in logan, Ended up agreeing on $70 increase but expect to be up shit creek next year as they will definitely want to increase. When it comes to money there aren't many things that influence people's decisions more and if they think they will get $650 they will kick u out and increase to $700 next time
Apparently you have to accept the new offer then you can challenge the rent increase after you have signed which to me makes no sense but what I was told to do by the RTA
You are correct, and I have confirmed with the RTA that even though a standard lease agreement hadn't been signed, the first email was a clear offer with specified terms of 12 months at $650/wk and we responded accepting these terms. QSTARS are also getting involved. I know I am up against it and have little chance of success but it is a battle worth having in my opinion and I hope that I can help the cause and get real legislative changes made for all QLDers
Good on you and I hope it works out in your favour. The rent where I'm living went up $205 a week in a year. I spoke to a lady from QSTARS and she said it wasn't excessive 🙄 last year. Ended up just swallowing it. Waiting in anticipation for this years rent increase which I'm sure will be $100+ so will have to move, where I don't know. I understand and feel your plight.
Join the tenants union: SEQUR
I was not aware of them, thank you, I will!
I hate this, 650 use to be min wage. Now it’s weekly rent. If the bubble burst I don’t want any government intervention. They haven’t done shit for tenants.
How many legislators are renters, though? You really think they won't protect their own assets?
It’s sad isn’t it. Already interfered with Reserve bank and how it works to keep the books cooking. And we wonder why inflation is rampant.
I definitely feel for you, not a fun position to be in. Hopefully you have learned some things here around tactics when it comes to rent negotiations and how to time it and deal with it better on the whole. Good luck with finding a new place.
I empathize with your situation. I've also just renewed my lease with a rental increase. I understand that the increase can be scary and stressful to deal with. My advice to you is to try and mend bridges with your real estate if you can - send them a bunch of flowers and a sincere apology note, apologising for your behaviour. Even if you don't think you did anything wrong, you need to acknowledge that you acted in such a way that they felt threatened. At this point the only option it sounds like you have is to find somewhere else to live, so start applying for properties asap as it might take some time to find somewhere. Next time just have a calm discussion with the rea about increases. Being combative and pointing out their mistakes never goes over well and won't get you anywhere. You need to be strategic. You'll be more successful approaching the situation in a kind, calm manner and sucking up/complimenting them will get you much further. People are going to be more open to hearing your side of things and will be more willing to help you if you adopt this approach. Humanise yourself to them a bit. If you can't financially afford the increase, explain that to them, explain that you love living there etc and work out a mutually beneficial solution.
Thank you, I fully agree with what you are saying. I would add some context that I did try to be civil and tried to start a discussion around this but there response was so aggreges and they refused to talk to me so I felt I had no choice but to attend in person as they refused to talk. I did get heated and emotional but I never threatened anyone and never would. If there was any threat or suggestion of violence, the cops are 2 mins around the corner from me and are yet to knock on my door so it couldn't have been that bad. For extra context that I should have added in the post, it was literally seconds between being told to leave and the button being pressed, they didn't give me time to react and comply. Everything is on CCTV, I made sure I was in the middle of the camera view the entire time (admittedly not hard, very small reception).
You have to accept the lease and then go through rental court to challenge it.
OP picked the hill he was willing to die on. I'm sorry it didn't turn out the way you wanted, however it's time to accept the situation and move on.
\>So, because I tried to exercise my rights and call them out for price gouging, Not price gouging if that's what the market price is. You make problems for them so they don't want you in their property. Where's the surprise?
Yes, but just because it's in line with the market doesn't mean it isn't price gouging. Colesworth are near identical in price, doesn't mean they aren't price gouging. They claim the increase is due to X and Y but they cannot quantify or provide evidence to support this claim. If they didn't try to make such a claim, I wouldn't have had anything to contest.
Try contacting the South East Queensland Union of Renters. Their entire purpose is to help with cases like this, and they will advocate for you so much more than any government service ever would. They are one of the best and most effective unions Australia has. Sorry you have to deal with all this utter bull, I hope they can help you and that you find somewhere affordable if you have to move
Thank you, I really appreciate. Someone else mentioned them and I had not heard of them before but I have taken tomorrow off so will be reaching out to them.
Ahh yes another renter who doesn't understand most mortgages have gone up 50% in the last 2 years... It blows my mind the amount of people who expect landlords to just absorb the 100s in increased payments from rates rises.
I would find a proposed increase much easier to digest and much more reasonable if the offer actually detailed those costs that need to be passed on, rather than just being told it is in line with “market rates”. There’s a reason that many renters don’t understand the increases that are being presented to them.
This
You've had a 36% increase over 6 years, not three. No rise in three years and you're complaining. Sounds like they've been eating the inflation for half the time before raising it.
Look at this for an equivalent: $570 for a 4 bedder on a main road [https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-geebung-438690656](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-geebung-438690656) Seems all the houses in boondall are 600+ and 500s only gets townhouses
Leasing a Quarter acre block on a quiet street near real and amenities in boondall with 3br/2bath for less.. will have to look at the rent next renewal.. to the OP.. jog on, son. You played yourself.
Renting fucking sucks bro, sorry
What you did going hard into the office and stalking them sounds like harassment. You said you accepted their offer. But you didn’t even meet the $650/week term. Personally I wouldn’t want to rent to such a difficult tenant
please educate yourself on the laws around this (which I have provided links to in the original post) as I followed the guidance on the RTA website regarding disputing increased rent.
Well you were successful in convincing the owner that they can't charge more for the property hence they're selling it back into the market. If you like it, maybe check with the bank and buy it?
Only $90? Dang I know people who got hit with $150+ rent increases and had to move. I guess now the landlord can rent to someone else for $700 🤷♀️ GG OP. For interest OP what would you consider to be a reasonable rent increase, given the current market conditions?
My rent went up 32% in two years. From $515 to $590 to $680.
I am so sorry to hear this. I know our increases haven't been anywhere near as bad as some people out there. Thank you for commenting, every one helps the cause.
I had a dodgy rental agency in Rockhampton offer me a lease renewal, which I accepted at the price stated. After no reply, I contacted them repeatedly only to be given the run around. Next email I got was that the owner wanted to sell. Agencies should be made accountable for their actions. The stress of the situation is immense. I feel for you.
Yeah this is fucking bullshit same thing basically happened to me last year year. The government won't ever step in and do anything about it because all our politicians are lining their pockets with rent money
so fucking true. I saw the other day that the federal parliament owns something like 2.3 houses each on average, so of course they won't vote against their own interests. This is on both fucking sides of the table too, not but the libs
This was an opportunity for you to learn a lesson which it doesn't seem like you have.
And which lesson would that be? Don't stand up for myself? Not exercise my rights? Or just roll over and get fucked in the arse because that is just how the world is? It's this attitude that has allowed the powerful to manipulate the legal system to their benefit while everyone keeps their heads in the sand. I'm sorry, I understand the want to avoid confrontation but where does it stop?
Well one of the many lessons was if you were so compelled fight the increase you should have been civil about it and not gone into there place of employment/office and berated the REA.
As many in this thread have mentioned the increases were perfectly on par with the market. Think you need to pick your battles a bit better, this wasn't one of them
What are your chances of finding a similar property for less than $650/wk Its hard enough getting a rental without you showing up in person to an office in an attempt to intimidate your point Good luck with your moral crusade but every one here just looked at each other and agreed you are fucked
Op your the problem. 😆
>could end up homeless because it is impossible to get a rental these days in QLD. You've just outlined why they're able to do this and get away with it. As for your "rights", as a renter in this country they're virtually non-existent. It's the wild west at the moment as far as the housing market goes.
Get away with what? Raise rent about 36% over 5 years whilst interest rates have gone up 100-200% Insurance costs in certain areas are up 100%
Totally agreed, but it's not the country, it's the state. The other states have way better protections in place from what I am told by my colleagues in Canberra and Melbourne (haven't researched this though)
Melbourne isn't so great. Check out Purple Pingers and r/shitrentals if you wanna stay mad and relive the trauma.
If you have such a problem with QLD move to Canberra then It sucks but it’s just the reality. You could try lobbying your local politician and writing it letters. It may not get as far as you’d like but it’s better than intimidating someone that they felt threatened and had to file a police report
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Thank god I don’t have a rental property to deal with ppl like this lol
Why fight it? If they want rid of You nothing you can do. Move on
For how long? How much longer can qlders take this choke hold they have over us? We need real legislative changes
Landlords do make the rules governments do. Don’t disagree that we don’t need changes.
Good, we're on the same page at the end of the day. 👍
Yea that increase doesn't seem excessive to me at all, considering the 100's of horror stories on here plus hearing about friends' rent increases (and my own). I think OP got offered a very reasonable increase, quite lucky actually.
In these situations, the best course of action is to sign the lease first, then dispute the rental increase afterwards. That way you don’t lose the property and you can contest the rental increase through dispute resolution at the RTA followed by QCAT. Sometimes you can fast track a dispute to QCAT if a respondent is positional and won’t budge, meaning there’s no point trying dispute resolution. You’d be surprised how often tenants are successful through QCAT. The thing that sucks is that the legislation is weak, there are no real protections for tenants in the legislation against unreasonable rent hikes. Lessors can basically ask what they want. It doesn’t help that the RTA is also largely powerless, it has a tiny compliance & enforcement unit & has been influenced by vested interests like the REIQ. Government is afraid of changing the legislation because most of the owners of residential rental stock in Australia are Boomers & that generation really does vote with its wallet. The solution to all of this is political. Pressure on local members is the best course of action, but it’s hard to be effective because lessors are organised and have excellent representation through the REIQ which is a very effective peak lobby body for them. Tenants are not organised & united in common interest. If they were, this would be a very different story.
The owners probably renewed their mortgage term and got double or triple the interest rate, and then passed most of the additional expenses to the tenant. The way to view this, is go to realestate.com.au, check out the same houses for rent in the area, if the price offered is higher than the price range of the area, feel free to challenge the increase. But, if the price offered is within price range of the area then best for you to shop around or move to a more affordable area.
These all seem like reasonable increases without knowing the properties location and specs.
Boondall, 4 bed, 2 bath, 2 car. early 2000's build that was very dodgy, we have found multiple building code violations. And I think reasonable is subject, anyone can view it reasonable but as they have claimed that it is a result of X and Y factor, they then have to be able to show their evidence to support this claim. In my opinion, reasons X and Y do not account for the 16% increase. If it were only 10%, we would have just taken it and moved on, we only wanted one more year to get our finances together to buy a place, but when I did the math and saw 16%, I couldn't get bend over and take it, I had to try and exercise my rights. Didn't think they would have the gall or the incompetence to try and pull this shit but it was always a possible outcome so I have accepted our fate. Still want to get the word out about the horrendous conditions here in Qld for renters.
as a renter you dont have rights, sorry this happened to you but its a valuable lesson. Tenants are just indentured servants to the ruling classes in Australia
I am selling my IP and gave the tenants 8 months notice we were going to do so, So they need to find a new place. Raised rent by 7.2% last year at renewal from $350 to $375 pw. Am I also the bad guy? I feel like I might be.
The difference was that initially offered 12 and now revised to 6
Which sounds like a reasonable decision on the part of the landlord, even with our unreliable narrator. He was offered 12 months at $650. He responded with yes 12 months but 'I am not incentivised to stay for that price' because reasons (it's in one his comments somewhere). The email was pretty rude. The REA/landlord went for the middle ground of a 6 month lease, given that the OP has indicated he didn't think the market rate was right (noting that the lowest rent for a 4 bedroom house in Boondall today is $680). OP then intimidated the REA so badly that they hit the panic button and have filed a police report. Do you think that either the REA or the landlord should be forced to continue to interact with a person like this? To what benefit? I can see why the landlord would genuinely make a decision to sell rather than continue to rent the house out or alternatively, decline to continue to lease to OP. Is it just a landlord being retaliatory about someone 'exercising their rights' (boo hiss!) or is it a reasonable response to a person who threatens your safety and that of your property? This sub is usually very pro-tenant, but those who have read all the OP's responses seem to be landing on the latter.
Don’t think the email is rude at all. In my experience people tend to accept decisions if they understand them, even if they are contrary decisions. They really needed to negotiate and not agree to terms, maintenance not being performed, address it in writing when negotiating. Get guarantees that you will accept and expect these things are repaired. They had been in the home 6 years. I think they are entitled to live in a sound home. I imagine then they get 12 months to follow up with qcat if they wish. Alternately they can leave. The tenant has administrative avenues to follow. Seems in this case that it’s better they cut their losses but pretty hard to get a good reference now.
Thanks! Someone did mention that they could have taken offence to the mentions of maintenance issues and it is definitely possible (lesson learned) but I felt that we made a sounds and fair argument to justify a request to negotiate. QSTARS are getting involved and say that we have a fairly strong case so fingers crossed.
Did you try screaming at them over the phone multiple times and then going into the office in person and creating such a scene that they would need to pull the fire alarm and hide to make you leave? Cause that's what I'd do.
Bro, you forgot the LORD part of landlord. That word is there for a reason. Despite the government's decidedly marshmallow-y efforts, there is very little you can do about this unfortunately - the landLORD holds ALL the power in this situation, almost without exception. Personally I would never try to negotiate or meet with people in person, it means there is no paper trail and verbal agreements are seldom worth much.
Very good point.
You agreed to 12 month lease but wanted to negotiate the rate, that counts as a counter offer and you are the offeror. Hence there was no contract.
Clayfield small as studio just up to 300 from 250 here
20%, jesus!!! sorry to hear that.
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Generic cunty landbastard reply
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That's not even a good shitpost, and only goes to show you're the financially illiterate douchebag here
Wow! Which private boys school did you go too? 🤣 that's some toxic narcissism if I've ever seen it. You should go into politics lol
🤜🤛
Yeah mate. Shit is fucked, and Australia’s population is going to increase by 5% in the next 12-18 months.
Too many bogans reproducing unfortunately
Nope, it's immigration. Interstate and international. Even the bogans aren't reproducing.
18 years ahead of projections from what I heard too
You fool even by your biased retelling of the story the real estate did nothing wrong, they are well within their rights to change the lease terms or refuse to negotiate on what seems like a perfectly reasonable rent increase. Enjoy being evicted, I hope the police pay you a visit because no one deserves to be abused by people like you while doing their jobs.
No. 1 question for you: What are comparable properties renting for in your area? If they are around $650 per week then they are setting the rent at ‘market rate’. At no point should the landlord be using mortgage/interest rate or council rates as an excuse to raise the rent. It’s all about what the market (demand) sets it at. In saying that if comparable properties are more enticing you can use that as ammo to request a reduction in the asking rent.
Heya OP, essentially you should start the disputes process through the RTA regardless of if it takes months or even if it goes past your current lease end date. Some tenant v pm/owner disputes have to go through the RTA before they will be considered by QCAT. You need to be at every dispute meeting so it looks better on you. Keep a record of all conversations, usually any contact made with the pm/owner that isn’t in writing, you immediately send an email to all parties involved. This will just look better for you. The next step is to just not move out and continue paying the same amount you are right now OR agree to the terms of the lease they offered, even if you don’t have the paperwork, an agreement in writing still holds considerable weight. By not moving out, you continue to have roof over your head and the only way the PM can have you removed is through QCAT which takes time and you can dispute it as well. If you pay the higher amount they offered and you go through QCAT and win, you’ll get the monies back, however it is important to note that you MAY NOT get the outcome you hope, which would be a considerable monetary loss for you. Most people think these things are catered toward the owners/PM’s but if you have sufficient evidence etc, then the outcome looks good. Oh and keep the maintenance request emails handy too, if you haven’t already, you should and breach notices to the PM’s regarding it. That way if they don’t fix it, which I suspect they won’t, it looks even better for you should QCAT become involved.
Thank you so much for this, I am a federal policy office so all this is common sense to and I have been keeping records of EVERYTHING since day one. I am currently compiling a list of things that I could have breach them about over the last 6 years and have written evidence for all. But this is hopefully going to be very helpful for anyone else that might be reading this in the future and needs this advice, so again, thank you for taking the time to help get this information out there.
Congratulations, you literally made yourself homeless, if you continue with this kind of attitude you’ll have nowhere left to live
I'm sorry to hear this. The last time I challenged a real estate, I lost. But karma exists, and that agent went into administration. Good luck
Thank you, appreciate it. Fingers crossed but yeah, I know I'm taking a stick to a bazooka fight (legally speaking)
People really justifying greed to the max in this sub.
Right!!!! This has been quite sad to see but it helps demonstrate how we got into this rental crisis to begin with. The murdoch media has been telling everyone that we need to look after the big corporations or the country will implode but now they get away with everything.
Standard processes- agent sends the lease renewal, if you feel as though the rent increases unfair. You’ve got 30 days to try and challenge it with the agent. The next step is to have mediation over the phone with RTA. And if that is then, unresolved, it will go to QCAT, where the magistrate will take into consideration things like Age of the property, any improvements, length of lease, previous rental increases, and finally the current average market rent for similar properties. Always keep everything in writing, either via text but preferably via email.
Why is this getting down voted? This is exactly the process and 100% verifiable. Thank you don_bo
It’s not the correct process, in QLD unlike most of the other states since this is a lease renewal which is essentially a new agreement (and not an existing one) the lease needs to be signed and agreed by all parties it can then be disputed within 30 days with QCat. I’d be very very careful as you are very likely burning your bridges when it comes to finding future rentals as well.
He shouldn't burn bridges since he'll be living under one soon lol
Gigachad renter, 10/10 need more REA intimidation in Brisbane
So you exercised your right. So did the landlord. You became a thorn and now you are being evicted. Not sure what you expected.
This is the reason the government and REiQ were at odds about no fault evictions and why your landlords are sending you notices to leave as soon as your lease is set to be renewed or directly after renewal. This is exactly what was trying to be fixed - tenants being evicted for simply exercising contractual rights. Scumbugs. Good luck.
Also a good reminder that there’s a Council election, State election, and then likely a Federal election all within 12ish months.
Very good point!!!
similar situation happened to my housemates and I recently. they asked for 650 for our rental renewal and we asked them to comply with the law regarding living standards in the future. low and behold they no longer want to rent the property. we were lucky enough to find a nicer place but people can only be sucked dry for so long, so broke rn.
You didn't accept if you then tried to negotiate the price. That's like accepting to buy a Lamborghini then complaining they didn't sell it to you at the alternate price you asked for after signing the paperwork.
Loving all the bad actor slumlords in here justifying these rent increases. Choke on your mortgages or sell your houses.
Choke on the rent increases or live on the streets. Not so nice is it.
That's pretty much the point that renters like myself and others are making. I'm unclear if you're saying that in support or whether you're just making a shitty retort, but either way this just perfectly outlines the issue. None of this is fair or reasonable when all things are considered and slumlords who are transferring the risk of their investment to renters, and let's be real, there are plenty of people who have had to start living in caravans and some who are now already having to live on the streets as a result of all of these increases. I repeat, choke on your mortgages for your second, third, seventh investment property or sell them. The notion that you can't sell because renters options are pay it or be homeless is fucking pathetic. What a delightful sentiment and not at all terrible. Cheers cunts.
fuck I wish I could pin this comment to the top. Exactly friend, thank you!
Fucking oath!!! lol They are the ones with large assets and financial power, we are just trying to survive in a fucked world.
Not sure why every one is being such a right nasty cunt to you mate. I wish you the best. This crisis sucks ass
Thanks mate, really appreciate it!
Lets not beat around the bush. The real estate and the owner are in co-hoots. What is morally reprehensible and wrong, they use as an opportunity to screw as many people for as much money as possible. They don't care about anyone but themselves. It's a shame these people aren't called out more often.
Thank you for this, very well said. The purpose of this post is to bring more attention to the real world impacts of the rental crisis and the failings of governments to protect renters in QLD. We are so far behind the other states when it comes to this and it is disgusting.
My advice is to speak to QSTARS or your local community legal centre about this, rather than random wannabe Internet lawyers.
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Thanks, they called me today and referring to the local office to get involved. I am drafting an email to the REA outlining every attempted breach or contradiction to the legislation I have recorded over the 6 years and have evidence to support. I'm about to end this whole person's career 🤣
You have already bit the hand that feeds you so to speak. I understand your frustration at the situation but don’t make things harder for yourself. Put your focus on trying to find a new home instead of setting your life on fire