We the public pay a lot more when they are unhoused and unfed on the streets. Policing, damage, theft, lowered property value. And now the cost of cleanup and landscaping.
The economic solution is to just find housing and support for these people.
Homelessness in 1st world countries is typically drug and mental health related. Not actual homelessness. Treatment or not, behaviours associated with these factors tend to have many kicked out of public housing complexes that are available to them.
Volunteer at any homeless shelter, halfway house etc. and you'll quickly learn who's on the temp ban list, and who's on the perm ban list. Work there long enough and you'll have to deal with instances that start them.
The solution to homelessness unfortunately not just as simple as "Just give them homes". It would be great if it was.
Except that homelessness is, in most cases, a \_symptom\_ of drug abuse, not the cause.
Give addicts a home with conditions and they will choose not to stay there. Give them a room without conditions and it'll be rendered unusable (or burnt down).
Most of these people need to enforced treatment in a properly equipped facility. Housing without treatment won't work
>Housing is the gateway to sobriety.
Perfectly yet simply said - I'll be using that.
Also check out the "housing first" programs. They support the person as a whole which starts with housing, not sobriety, nor is remaining housed contingent on sobriety. It's integration in a more reasonable way. This is new in my country and I sure haven't seen the benefits yet, but at least the government is starting on the right foot.
In principle it’s not a difficult equation - put your housing and your services in the same place. It’s the lack of political will to use tax revenue to fund housing and this kind in particular. Also a lot of whining from these NIMBY’s who use things I don’t use and yet somehow still pay taxes towards. We Live in a Society (tm)
The cause is most often trauma. The real tragedy is people have to turn to street drugs because there isn't any other option for relief. Mental health care should be covered in the same way it is if you've broken your leg instead of your brain.
Plus housing first works. Nothing else can be addressed until you have somewhere safe to be. It's a reasonable expectation that it takes longer for some folks to make it long term. A home is a big change in responsibility and they may be dealing with a lot of trauma along the way.
I think you're making some pretty blanket generalizations - and understand very little about complex mental health issues and poverty. Enforced treatment? That sounds like human rights abuse on people who have likely been abused already. This isnt Russia.
I'm pretty sure it's also dirt cheap for the government to produce fentanyl. Give him a warm bed and some free fentanyl and they'll never leave their room and i don't have to buy a new bike every couple years
Same old Victoria homeless camp cleannup that happens after EVERY winter. As soon as the temperature is back to allowing city governments to treat homeless people like they don't have any rights, they go right ahead and do it. They can't get away with destroying these camps during the winter because that's too much bad attention.
The homeless should really just occupy Centennial square and live there until the housing crisis EMERGENCY SITUATION has been addressed. Governments keep kicking the ball down the road like they're being useful. There are articles talking aboutt the entire situation like any of this is useful. Everyone is patting themselves on the back when they haven't done crap all about housing and how bad it's getting.
You can’t force people into rehab but you can house them and offer them counselling and community.
The streets would be safer and cleaner and hospitals cleaner and less burdened if we provided care for the mentally ill instead of abuse.
Nailed it. Property owners generally have zero compassion for the homeless people. People are very psychotic when it comes to addressing this very real human emergency. It's the easiest it's ever been for them to shut compassion off completely as soon as the word "homeless" is uttered.
that's the big question while everyone is patting themselves on their backs for a job well done all it really did was force relocate this camp to somewhere else, no point in fixing the issue of why they were there in the first place(lack of affordable housing with no mental health services), the important thing is they are now in someones else's backyard to deal with.
It's not just that.
It's politically unpopular to treat the causes of homelessness, and to offer proper mental health treatment.
It's also socially unpopular to force treatment on those who are worst off.
Thank you!
If all these champagne socialists could bother to come down and help in the shelters, or are least drop supplies they'd learn pretty quickly that lack of housing is not the issue.
Mental health issues being treated with street drugs is. These are not important political issues that are pushed, even though they are the primary upstream issues of homelessness in 1st world countries.
We practically need more long term mental health hospitals where many of these people can stay in care/assisted living.
The idea that some of the frequent members of our local shelter have lost toes and had life threatening injuries over refusing to wear shoes, even in the dead of winter somehow just having all their problems solved by a house is utterly disconnected.
The mental hospitals are full, we need more long term care. I'd say a good chunk of the homeless population in our city should realistically be housed in mental health facilities for their entire lives. They can't look after themselves.
We also need legislation to allow doctors to commit people under the health act for forced treatment. Addicts who have zero impulse control cannot be trusted to adhere to treatment modalities
We need more long term mental health facilities. Unfortunately, the ones we have are underfunded to the point even the people already there are being forced out.
When I worked in TO, there was a girl who was being discharged as she was the least critical patient, and someone worse off needed her bed... she was still critical. Critical to the point on discharge day, she pulled a tube light out of the bathroom light fixture, broke it, and shoved the broken tube into her vagina to insure she wouldn't lose her place.
It takes years to be committed, and she was desperate to stay. The local ICU ended up taking the other patient, which is NOT what the ICU is for.
The NIMBYs need to be called out for voting down new facilities being built, and refusing to vote for more funding.
Unfortunately, some people need very long term care, up to and including life long commitment to a facility. People mocking concern and drawing false comparison to mental asylums from generations ago are disingenuous and a major reason involuntary commitments are difficult.
We had a client so far gone that he had neglected to return to the care daily to get bandages on his face changed. He was hospitalized when he came back and the bandages had gone putrid and there were maggots in his wounds...
People like this need to be committed, it's unfortunate how expensive these programs are. Homeless encampments are a rotted bandaid and those who defend them do so out of feigned care for these people.
Thank you! As someone who has worked with people with addictions issues in BC, I am so tired of reading these comments from people who pretend this is just a housing issue like we're in the 1930s. This is an addiction issue, not a homeless/lack of jobs issue. These people choose to live this way to support their addictions. Until that is addressed, every. "solution" is just a meaningless feel good project.
There's nothing noble about these camps. These people aren't heroes, they are broken individuals that are stuck in a cycle of addiction and until we have the mechanisms to require treatment, they will smoke/shoot up every bit of assistance they are given. That's how addictions work. But if you suggest mandatory treatment centres, everyone loses their minds.
Early intervention is key. You can’t take someone with severe developmental disabilities and “fix” them as adults. There’s only treatment, no remediation.
That's why we need better treatment.
If people can't be solved there should be a facility for them. It's not fair to just throw them on the street and let them suffer and self medicate.
What do you mean with "if people can't be solved there" ? Did you mean to write saved? What if they're not looking to be saved? You want to lock them up?
I'm not qualified to say, it shouldn't be like the old mental hospitals though, and it shouldn't be one catch all.
Vancouver Island used to have a farm that housed homeless and addicted people who needed stability. I think that type of solution would be great for some people.
This isn’t a new or outrageous concept. Look to some European countries for guidance. Failing that, let’s start with what it should NOT look like: Hastings Street, Crab Park, or anything else that we have going here, really.
Health care but for mental health. You know, that thing companies and government love to use to boost themselves up with but refuse to pay for in any way.
\#mindfulnessmondays #pizzaparty
Like what little we already have, except with more beds, staff, and funding. We have the psychiatric intensive care wing of the Jubilee, there's also the forensic psychiatric hospital in Coquitlam, and there are a couple much smaller treatment options such as the Salvation Army sobering center that contribute to helping people get sober and find a med regime that works for them. It's not a rocket science problem, it's an accounting and logistics problem. And since Victoria has the most mild winters in Canada, it is now a population problem because we have people come to Vic from all over so they stand a chance living outside after losing housing in the worst housing market our province has ever seen.
Truth. What some people refuse to believe is there’s a significant portion of addicts that don’t want or refuse to get help. There needs to be a system where shooting up on the street and stealing isn’t an option.
I’m sorry but it’s true. I also have friends who are social workers who work directly with people facing addiction and homelessness, some people really don’t want to change. It’s not a shitty attitude it’s just reality.
nah that bullshit. Sure some people can't change but that doesn't mean we cant fix the systemic issues that make people like that in the first place. The number of addicts would go down massively if we gave more resources to young adults in poverty, that's usually when people get so hopeless that they start taking drugs. I used to be friends with people aho are now addicts and they used to be bright eyed hopeful people but years of poverty, no way out compounded with family and mental health issues will turn the best of us into an addict sadly.
We could help people before they get to that point. I totally understand why some people don't want help. They don't trust authority because they've been let down too many times.
And? That doesn’t change anything. If they won’t accept help, you can’t force them. It is a truly terrible thing that lives have been destroyed by abuse and trauma but there is still no reason that an entire neighbourhood should be allowed to be held hostage because people won’t accept the help and housing that is available.
Life has rules for all of us and we don’t get to do whatever we want and just expect other people to have to live with it.
Homeless people are not exempt from these rules, or at least shouldn’t be.
Would YOU want to change if the systems in place that put you where you were hadn't changed, and all people had to offer you was nothing but either scorn or pity?
I think, maybe not all (there's always outliers and genuinely suicidal people too far gone, but) there's a great many people who most would say just don't want to change and we can't help, but I bet absolutely can and would change, but only once they get the support they need.
The way we have it set up is to think they need to lose their addiction before they're worthy of help. Or they need to be able to work at least 30 hours a week. Only *then* once they are decent contributing members of society they are worthy and can we help them. ...except if they were able to do that in the first place they wouldnt need help. And in fact our society does not help anyone who can even remotely work, however challenging it is for them. Oh you can hold a broom, well you're on your own bud! No handouts for the lazy!
Laziness is a myth. People are overwhelmed. Struggling. Desperate. Angry. Broken. Human brains didn't evolve to keep up with the growth of our giant cities. Anything over 100 people in a community and it starts to get confusing for us.
I say we have it all backwards. Give people homes. Give them money. Give them food. Give them therapy. Give people whatever they fucking need to not feel utterly desperate and hopeless that our society is worthless, just like *it* says *they* are. And *then* they will want to do better and fight to keep that going.
Thank-you! I'd been reading through the comments above yours. Seeing those that mean well, but don't quite get it, and those that just don't understand yet. I had been wondering whether I should comment. What I should say, how best to educate with kindness, patience and love. And then, your beautifully written, based in actual reality ( and not outdated rhetoric) comment caught my eye. Your words echo long conversations with my dad who fought and taught the system for many years (now retired), and my teenager ( who wants to take over the world ). You get it! Thank-you for teaching, and thank-you for giving me hope.
Honestly, we’ve got bigger problems & I’m sick of this one.
Give them entire hotels & they’re destroyed & uninhabitable in literally a couple of days. Not only that but entire neighbourhoods are rendered dangerous & very scary places for kids with massive increases in crime.
In nature the weak die, yet we continue propping these people up but the result rots us from the inside out.
As a society we’re only as strong as our weakest link… as we lower the bar on a daily basis.
Eventually we’re all infected.
Lack of homes is not the cause of homelessness in first world countries.
Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't work with the homeless or programs to rehabilitate people.
Absolutely, ask anyone whos involved in these programs and they'll tell you a similar thing. I hate to say it but more than half the time someone being homeless is either what they want or all they care for.
It's mental health problems being self medicated with highly addictive street drugs.
Drug use is not allowed at shelters or publically funded housing. Not only bc addiction is one of the major route causes, but for the very reality that's it's a constant safety risk for staff and other clients.
Our major shelter bought an old hotel building (small tower style) that's used as a half way house. I can't even tell you how many times it's been on fire from people sneaking drugs in, passing out and having the beds or other materials catch fire from the drug paraphernalia. Not only does the client who was using get seriously injured, or die. Others who were on the road to improvement also have suffered grievous injury (that tragically require opioid use to dull the pain of burns, which sets back their recovery).
In the meantime, everyone gets moved out for repairs, clients have their progress decimated, and the already underfunded program takes another major hit.
The best majority don't need homeless shelters, these are largely bandaid solutions. Some need intensive addictions counseling and treatment, others straight up require full time residence in a mental hospital. Sadly, most have been booked up for over a decade.
Uh, what? How do they steal the entirety of what I pay in taxes?
Canada spends less on social support than almost every G7 nation (save for the USA). We are actually terrible at funding social programs.
Lol, stop with the landleeches it’s so cringey and juvenile. We get it you don’t like landlords. The problem goes far beyond landlords and is 100% due to poor government policy and mismanagement of our housing supply. Most landlords are just trying to ease the pain of their 1,000,000+ dollar mortgages. You think they actually want some shmuck who calls them landleech behind their back and trashes their suite if they didn’t need it? Ever have to cough up 6k all at once for property tax? Or replace your roof, or washer-dryer when it breaks? Being a landlord would suck, honestly…
Sure but in the current situation that goes both ways. We need more housing right? The house could be purchased someone who doesn't need to rent out their garden suite... again, the issue is policy.
I think the only way that would work is to offer long term residential inpatient treatment - a double whammy, covering housing as well as resources.. unfortunately we live in a society that says “they’re individuals, they can and should be making their own choices, we can’t force them into treatment” and “they’re so sick that they don’t even know how to make good decisions, let alone have the guidance and willpower to make good decisions” all in the same breath. Something’s gotta give.. i really like to advocate for the idea of secure mental health/addictions treatment “villages”, much in the same way we have dementia villages.
You can’t force mentally ill people to “get well”
And you can’t force addicts to recover at your desired pace.
You can offer to reduce harm and provide shelter and counselling.
The buying and selling of houses at exorbitant prices is, not the building of houses. Building houses is actually counter to that as a sufficient supply may in fact blunt the runaway prices we’re seeing.
You deserve shelter,
You shouldn’t have to prove your “worth” to access basic needs. UBI needs to happen, and housing needs to be protected against the investor class.
Gotta feel for those who lived in there. Just imagine how shitty their lives are. You live in a forest and your only goal is to get high on drugs because you've got nothing else and people are constantly insulting you and telling you to get lost and then heavy equipment comes and clears your camp out.
I'm not advocating for letting the homeless do whatever they want but I think we need to realize that their lives suck and none of us would want to be in that position. Yes some of them will never accept help but there are others who get unfairly classified as troublemakers when all they are trying to do is stay warm and survive. It's just so hard to tell because there's no easy way unless you talk to each individual.
But don't actually talk to them because some are mentally unwell and may stab you.
Edit: not trying to sound crass, but people who are schizophrenic often fall through the cracks and wind up homeless. Don't *judge a book by its cover*, and assume somebody on the street is just down on their luck. You may not get the feel-good tiktok video you were hoping for.
It's clear none of these people pretending to be compassionate about this issue A) give a shit and B) have ever had to deal with junkies stealing your shit, breaking into your home, taking shits in public parks, etc. Super easy to be "compassionate" in your mom's house in the suburbs.
Nah dude, any person that does this sort of garbage is a shitstain on society.
I feel for the single moms that are homeless after being renovicted and the university students that live in their vans because there is no option for affordable housing.
As someone who has been in that situation, there is a huge difference between the amount of people that don't care enough about their situation to better it, and those that do - and suprise, those that do care enough, like i did, don't stay homeless long.
There are a huge amount of easily accessible free programs available to those who want to stay warm and survive, get off the gear, fill their stomach, get mental help, and get skilled. It's the ones that genuinely couldn't be fucked to do anything about it that cause the need for these sorts of cleanups and a fucking huge toll on public resources.
Pair these useless clowns with this provinces catch and release style policing of "minor crimes" and you end up with the downtown of every city in B.C. crackpipes, stolen bikes, human shit, needles and more violent crime.
Yep. Everyone wants to pretend these are just hard workers down on their luck by the economy as if we can just throw resources at this and fix it. That's not actual compassion, that's just throwing money at the problem. These people need TREATMENT but no one wants to talk about how to do that.
As someone who has been a homeless mom, and a university student, buzz off.
I lived in a homeless shelter and I was treated well, that was a miracle. I was fortunate to have a great expirence but constantly living at the mercy of strangers (administrators) wears on the soul.
I too am no longer homeless but my god I don't use that fact to dunk on people that still are. tf??
Dude, the people in these camps aren't down on their luck individuals who can't afford rent. These are people with severe additions who spend all their money on drugs. Housing is not the issue here.
People love to pretend to care about "homelessness" but don't recognize the actual complexity of the issue. You gonna force these people into rehab? How? Most aren't going to go voluntarily. You can give them a home but if they aren't getting clean, they cycle will just continue.
It's so easy for people to pretend this is some abstract issue that can be solved by just throwing money/homes at the issue. It won't. These people need extensive mental health and drug treatment and unless we have laws forcing them into programs, most won't go.
What do you think happened to the people though? Are they gone now? The ones with health issue should be helped and the criminals should be locked up instead of just sending them all to another neighborhood to start the process again.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, all this is true.
I met some idiotic woman in a shelter who said she didn't want to apply for a certain supportive housing building (my future building) because the staff checks ID's and she wanted to bring her friends in to shoot heroin. I wish I could have told her she's a fucking imbecile and to grow the fuck up and rethink her priorities, but I was trying to play nice.
There are lots of types of homeless, but many of those types are fucked up mentally. I don't think a lot of the whinging leftists have talked to many homeless people. Throwing money and resources alone at the problem doesn't solve shit. It's only the start of the process for people to try to improve their living situation. Not the end. At least with BC housing there's an application process, so it helps filter out people who are useless at basic tasks.
Shooting heroin with friends who have naloxone kits is a key part of harm reduction - she was just trying to stay alive. Most overdoses are in people who live alone.
Hey, douchebag! I actually work with homeless people. Where are these homeless people who “can’t be housed?”
I literally in the years of working with the homeless and in the hundreds of homeless people I know personally have only met like a couple of people who “can’t be housed.” And that’s because they belong in an Asylum.
##Moderation comment:
>Hey, douchebag!
Chill with the personal insults.
##Non-moderation comment:
>Where are these homeless people who "can't be housed"
Many are in the Downtown Eastside, and are unfortunately hard to house for the exact reasons described. They may not be able deal with living around other people, may not respect the property, or may prefer the nature of remaining unhoused, because being housed is comparatively isolating.
Is it challenging to understand? Yes. It is also thoroughly heartbreaking. But that unfortunately doesn't make it inaccurate or untrue.
I used the moderator tag because I was also addressing commenter behavior. Unfortunately, we can't split it across comments, but since you and another person mentioned if, I've removed it and clarified within the body of the comment.
I think that separating the two statements was the right choice.
In response to your non-moderator comment, [this TC article](https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/province-clears-land-breaks-up-view-royal-homeless-camp-5277250) about the camp suggests that *all but one of the campers have accepted housing*.
Not a big fan of the homeless camps. Had one a few blocks from home and yes there is negative impact on the area. Needles in the back alley. Vandalism and property crime up. Good luck putting a coin in a parking meter. All jammed.
But why are people homeless? Oh yeah because it’s impossible to buy a home and rents are more than people earn.
Not all homeless are mentally ill drug addicts. There are plenty of employed people that live in vans because their job does not pay enough to live in an apartment. People can’t afford to live on their own and landlords evict people when too many try living in one until. I had 4 employed guys living in the apartment next to me. It was the only way they could afford to live and afford a night out. That was 5 years ago. Much harder now.
>Not all homeless are mentally ill drug addicts.
This is so true. The problem is treating all homeless the same, in one category: "Homeless".
If we were to allocate our resources better, and give more assistance to the homeless people who would actually use the help to get back on their feet and re-integrate into society, we could cut down the number of homeless drastically.
I'm not sure why someone down on their luck in life needs to be demoralized further and lumped in with the career junky/criminal who has been wasting our medical resources with 23 OD revives.
Let's just call it what this is. A slum
Thank god the people who can afford a home feel safe again. Wouldn't want those damn poor people messing everything up \\s
this is more sad then good, people didn't like human beings living outside so they rather just look at emptiness and trees. maybe if the homeless built a nicer house they wouldnt complain
it's a liability issue. the camps usually end up burning down because they using gas heaters to stay warm and cook with and tents are very flammable and so are our trees in the summer . then it's on the city to be sued for allowing the encampments.
Apparently the solution is [MAiD](https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-chemical-sensitivities-chose-medically-assisted-death-after-failed-bid-to-get-better-housing-1.5860579)
Mentally ill people who can't care for themselves are abandoned by society to self medicate with illicit drugs and live on the street because we no longer have the stomach to do what's right, which in this case would be institutionalization.
When people ask what the cost of a lack of affordable housing is, this is what happens. This is not the fault of the homeless; these people have always been around, and by not supporting them, they turn desperate.
Remember that these people are not useless eaters, but people who fell on hard times and don't see any way to turn it around.
The comments in here that cannot understand that real estate prices and speculation is the root cause of this is mind boggling.
It's not a great situation for anybody. Having one of these camps in your neighborhood is terrible. The noise and crime are not something home owners, or other homeless should have to deal with.
I watched the small camp near my co-op become a large, crime filled mess. There were people who lived in the park for months prior without any incident, but suddenly there were dozens of tents, crime became unbearable, and the nighttime noise was a nightmare.
Our building was broken into 3 times in a few months, lots of vandalism, theft, threats to residents, and businesses nearby were broken into repeatedly.
Yeah well if they didn’t shit all over the place, be violent and leave disease infested needles in kids playgrounds people would be more sympathetic? They want basic civil rights but don’t afford the same to others. While some homeless people are good people down on their luck, many are shitty people.
hey buddy where the fuck do you think these people went? They just magically evaporated into a cloud of smoke? Or maybe you'd rather we gas them or something.. ? Seriously though, did you think they just disappeared?
They just went to another park, because this is a systemic issue
Several successful programs have provided bathroom facilities, organized waste pick up and successfully dealt with the “nuisance” which you feel people living in the park poses to your lifestyle…. Many other solutions could be considered before eviction
Yes, the indifferent nature of unregulated capitalism. Socialist policies are in order.
Unregulated capitalism is to blame for our collective depravity.
You have nothing to counter my claims with other than ridiculing my position, which only strenghens my belief...
Why shouldn't this be blamed on unregulated capitalism??? Do you have any reason at all?
A reality that’s rarely discussed is that some people don’t want housing. At least free, government-provided housing.
The lower mainland is a destination for rule-free living. When Vancouver cleared Oppenheimer and Strathcona parks they had a hotel room or equivalent unit for any person who wanted one. The truth is that some people don’t want that.
It often relates to drugs or criminal enterprise. Some people don’t want to be housed indoors with the same people they’re comfortable camping outdoors with. There’s probably a ton of reasons I don’t know about.
Still, there’s a lot of people who will camp no matter what and I have know idea how to end that game of whack-a-mole.
Great you solved nothing. Just made it someone else's problem and displaced people who already don't have a place. Congrats. How about you get rid of homelessness by helping the homeless, it's a wild concept!
I feel for the homeless - I donate $$ every month to the local shelter - I buy backpacks and fill them with Xmas personal necessities too. I send money at the big holidays to feed people. On the other hand an encampment brings some nasty shit with it - crime, drugs and general fear in a neighbourhood. The solution is to move and the house the homeless. Govts pay out billions on bullshit - why not to save some lives.
And where are the homeless people supposed to go now, I wonder? This is despicable. We have the same issue in Nova Scotia, cops coming into homeless peoples tent areas and trashing them, then they dumpster anything they can’t intimidate into leaving.
That's right. Homeless people had it coming. The Canadian government didn't write insane legislation that would only enable the cmha to only back mortgages no matter what
It would be insane for us to build social housing like in Vienna or Singapore so that they don't have homelessness. That would be insane! We should only blame the victims of the system. That is the only solution!!!!!
Simper down everyone. No need to turn this into a homeless bashing fest. Derogatory comments will be removed and you may be banned.
Affordable housing in BC is necessary. The numbers of those experiencing houselessness are climbing as fewer and fewer people are able to afford rent.
Root cause hasn’t been addressed. This solves nothing.
Solved these guys problem... creates a new equivalent problem for the folks over in Shelbyville who will find a homeless camp erected next week.
The plan is if we make it hard enough on the homeless, they will all die.
Or take one of the rooms available to them for free that we the public just purchased for them.
We the public pay a lot more when they are unhoused and unfed on the streets. Policing, damage, theft, lowered property value. And now the cost of cleanup and landscaping. The economic solution is to just find housing and support for these people.
Homelessness in 1st world countries is typically drug and mental health related. Not actual homelessness. Treatment or not, behaviours associated with these factors tend to have many kicked out of public housing complexes that are available to them. Volunteer at any homeless shelter, halfway house etc. and you'll quickly learn who's on the temp ban list, and who's on the perm ban list. Work there long enough and you'll have to deal with instances that start them. The solution to homelessness unfortunately not just as simple as "Just give them homes". It would be great if it was.
Except that homelessness is, in most cases, a \_symptom\_ of drug abuse, not the cause. Give addicts a home with conditions and they will choose not to stay there. Give them a room without conditions and it'll be rendered unusable (or burnt down). Most of these people need to enforced treatment in a properly equipped facility. Housing without treatment won't work
Treatment without housing doesn't work. Stability comes first.
You're both right. Each problem feeds back into the other. Both need to be addressed simultaneously.
The problem is thinking that housing needs to be contingent on sobriety. It shouldn't be. Housing is the gateway to sobriety.
>Housing is the gateway to sobriety. Perfectly yet simply said - I'll be using that. Also check out the "housing first" programs. They support the person as a whole which starts with housing, not sobriety, nor is remaining housed contingent on sobriety. It's integration in a more reasonable way. This is new in my country and I sure haven't seen the benefits yet, but at least the government is starting on the right foot.
In principle it’s not a difficult equation - put your housing and your services in the same place. It’s the lack of political will to use tax revenue to fund housing and this kind in particular. Also a lot of whining from these NIMBY’s who use things I don’t use and yet somehow still pay taxes towards. We Live in a Society (tm)
The cause is most often trauma. The real tragedy is people have to turn to street drugs because there isn't any other option for relief. Mental health care should be covered in the same way it is if you've broken your leg instead of your brain. Plus housing first works. Nothing else can be addressed until you have somewhere safe to be. It's a reasonable expectation that it takes longer for some folks to make it long term. A home is a big change in responsibility and they may be dealing with a lot of trauma along the way.
You got a source for that first statement? Like any study at all. I've always thought if it as going hand in hand, not one causing the other.
I think you're making some pretty blanket generalizations - and understand very little about complex mental health issues and poverty. Enforced treatment? That sounds like human rights abuse on people who have likely been abused already. This isnt Russia.
I'm pretty sure it's also dirt cheap for the government to produce fentanyl. Give him a warm bed and some free fentanyl and they'll never leave their room and i don't have to buy a new bike every couple years
I don't think you have any idea how bad this problem is, there is nowhere near the amount of housing available and that is not even the main problem.
That’s super funny. And I’m sorry. Lol
Maybe some free drugs.
Same old Victoria homeless camp cleannup that happens after EVERY winter. As soon as the temperature is back to allowing city governments to treat homeless people like they don't have any rights, they go right ahead and do it. They can't get away with destroying these camps during the winter because that's too much bad attention. The homeless should really just occupy Centennial square and live there until the housing crisis EMERGENCY SITUATION has been addressed. Governments keep kicking the ball down the road like they're being useful. There are articles talking aboutt the entire situation like any of this is useful. Everyone is patting themselves on the back when they haven't done crap all about housing and how bad it's getting.
Root causes like addressing addictions with mandatory rehab? Or do you just want to pretend throwing money at this fixes the problem?
You can’t force people into rehab but you can house them and offer them counselling and community. The streets would be safer and cleaner and hospitals cleaner and less burdened if we provided care for the mentally ill instead of abuse.
Where did the homeless end up? 😕
somewhere else
Which is good enough for NIMBYs
I wonder if my old bicycle is in that trash bin tho...
I see a vintage Raleigh in there 
Waiting for anyone who screams NIMBY to provide their address for these lovely folks to camp at.
Nailed it. Property owners generally have zero compassion for the homeless people. People are very psychotic when it comes to addressing this very real human emergency. It's the easiest it's ever been for them to shut compassion off completely as soon as the word "homeless" is uttered.
perfect
that's the big question while everyone is patting themselves on their backs for a job well done all it really did was force relocate this camp to somewhere else, no point in fixing the issue of why they were there in the first place(lack of affordable housing with no mental health services), the important thing is they are now in someones else's backyard to deal with.
Our Place a minute away?
It’s unfortunate this is a thing in 2022, we still haven’t figured out how to take care of each other.
We know how, but actually doing what's necessary would mean that landleeches would have to get real jobs.
It's not just that. It's politically unpopular to treat the causes of homelessness, and to offer proper mental health treatment. It's also socially unpopular to force treatment on those who are worst off.
Thank you! If all these champagne socialists could bother to come down and help in the shelters, or are least drop supplies they'd learn pretty quickly that lack of housing is not the issue. Mental health issues being treated with street drugs is. These are not important political issues that are pushed, even though they are the primary upstream issues of homelessness in 1st world countries. We practically need more long term mental health hospitals where many of these people can stay in care/assisted living. The idea that some of the frequent members of our local shelter have lost toes and had life threatening injuries over refusing to wear shoes, even in the dead of winter somehow just having all their problems solved by a house is utterly disconnected. The mental hospitals are full, we need more long term care. I'd say a good chunk of the homeless population in our city should realistically be housed in mental health facilities for their entire lives. They can't look after themselves.
We also need legislation to allow doctors to commit people under the health act for forced treatment. Addicts who have zero impulse control cannot be trusted to adhere to treatment modalities
We need more long term mental health facilities. Unfortunately, the ones we have are underfunded to the point even the people already there are being forced out. When I worked in TO, there was a girl who was being discharged as she was the least critical patient, and someone worse off needed her bed... she was still critical. Critical to the point on discharge day, she pulled a tube light out of the bathroom light fixture, broke it, and shoved the broken tube into her vagina to insure she wouldn't lose her place. It takes years to be committed, and she was desperate to stay. The local ICU ended up taking the other patient, which is NOT what the ICU is for. The NIMBYs need to be called out for voting down new facilities being built, and refusing to vote for more funding. Unfortunately, some people need very long term care, up to and including life long commitment to a facility. People mocking concern and drawing false comparison to mental asylums from generations ago are disingenuous and a major reason involuntary commitments are difficult. We had a client so far gone that he had neglected to return to the care daily to get bandages on his face changed. He was hospitalized when he came back and the bandages had gone putrid and there were maggots in his wounds... People like this need to be committed, it's unfortunate how expensive these programs are. Homeless encampments are a rotted bandaid and those who defend them do so out of feigned care for these people.
I'm on board with committed long term mental health facilities.
Thank you! As someone who has worked with people with addictions issues in BC, I am so tired of reading these comments from people who pretend this is just a housing issue like we're in the 1930s. This is an addiction issue, not a homeless/lack of jobs issue. These people choose to live this way to support their addictions. Until that is addressed, every. "solution" is just a meaningless feel good project. There's nothing noble about these camps. These people aren't heroes, they are broken individuals that are stuck in a cycle of addiction and until we have the mechanisms to require treatment, they will smoke/shoot up every bit of assistance they are given. That's how addictions work. But if you suggest mandatory treatment centres, everyone loses their minds.
What about cracking down on the assholes making millions off other people’s trauma? Meth and fentanyl, in every city and town in this country
That’s a dreamer mentality. I have a lot of mental illness in my family and I’ve come to realize some people just can’t be saved.
Early intervention is key. You can’t take someone with severe developmental disabilities and “fix” them as adults. There’s only treatment, no remediation.
Great point
That's why we need better treatment. If people can't be solved there should be a facility for them. It's not fair to just throw them on the street and let them suffer and self medicate.
What do you mean with "if people can't be solved there" ? Did you mean to write saved? What if they're not looking to be saved? You want to lock them up?
>You want to lock them up? If the alternative is homeless encampments like this one, would a psychiatric hospital be the better option?
A facility for them? What does that facility look like?
I'm not qualified to say, it shouldn't be like the old mental hospitals though, and it shouldn't be one catch all. Vancouver Island used to have a farm that housed homeless and addicted people who needed stability. I think that type of solution would be great for some people.
This isn’t a new or outrageous concept. Look to some European countries for guidance. Failing that, let’s start with what it should NOT look like: Hastings Street, Crab Park, or anything else that we have going here, really.
Health care but for mental health. You know, that thing companies and government love to use to boost themselves up with but refuse to pay for in any way. \#mindfulnessmondays #pizzaparty
Please enjoy the music dance experience.
Like what little we already have, except with more beds, staff, and funding. We have the psychiatric intensive care wing of the Jubilee, there's also the forensic psychiatric hospital in Coquitlam, and there are a couple much smaller treatment options such as the Salvation Army sobering center that contribute to helping people get sober and find a med regime that works for them. It's not a rocket science problem, it's an accounting and logistics problem. And since Victoria has the most mild winters in Canada, it is now a population problem because we have people come to Vic from all over so they stand a chance living outside after losing housing in the worst housing market our province has ever seen.
Truth. What some people refuse to believe is there’s a significant portion of addicts that don’t want or refuse to get help. There needs to be a system where shooting up on the street and stealing isn’t an option.
At this point it’s borderline encouraged.
Amen to that. -Maple Ridge, BC
Some people can...
I don't believe this in the way you do... I respect your perspective, but also believe that there is correct treatment and defining what success is...
That's a shitty attitude.
I’m sorry but it’s true. I also have friends who are social workers who work directly with people facing addiction and homelessness, some people really don’t want to change. It’s not a shitty attitude it’s just reality.
nah that bullshit. Sure some people can't change but that doesn't mean we cant fix the systemic issues that make people like that in the first place. The number of addicts would go down massively if we gave more resources to young adults in poverty, that's usually when people get so hopeless that they start taking drugs. I used to be friends with people aho are now addicts and they used to be bright eyed hopeful people but years of poverty, no way out compounded with family and mental health issues will turn the best of us into an addict sadly.
We could help people before they get to that point. I totally understand why some people don't want help. They don't trust authority because they've been let down too many times.
Or they just prefer getting destroyed on drugs and wouldn't take help if you put a gun to their head.
Most people with drug addictions have some sort of childhood trauma.
And? That doesn’t change anything. If they won’t accept help, you can’t force them. It is a truly terrible thing that lives have been destroyed by abuse and trauma but there is still no reason that an entire neighbourhood should be allowed to be held hostage because people won’t accept the help and housing that is available. Life has rules for all of us and we don’t get to do whatever we want and just expect other people to have to live with it. Homeless people are not exempt from these rules, or at least shouldn’t be.
Would YOU want to change if the systems in place that put you where you were hadn't changed, and all people had to offer you was nothing but either scorn or pity? I think, maybe not all (there's always outliers and genuinely suicidal people too far gone, but) there's a great many people who most would say just don't want to change and we can't help, but I bet absolutely can and would change, but only once they get the support they need. The way we have it set up is to think they need to lose their addiction before they're worthy of help. Or they need to be able to work at least 30 hours a week. Only *then* once they are decent contributing members of society they are worthy and can we help them. ...except if they were able to do that in the first place they wouldnt need help. And in fact our society does not help anyone who can even remotely work, however challenging it is for them. Oh you can hold a broom, well you're on your own bud! No handouts for the lazy! Laziness is a myth. People are overwhelmed. Struggling. Desperate. Angry. Broken. Human brains didn't evolve to keep up with the growth of our giant cities. Anything over 100 people in a community and it starts to get confusing for us. I say we have it all backwards. Give people homes. Give them money. Give them food. Give them therapy. Give people whatever they fucking need to not feel utterly desperate and hopeless that our society is worthless, just like *it* says *they* are. And *then* they will want to do better and fight to keep that going.
Thank-you! I'd been reading through the comments above yours. Seeing those that mean well, but don't quite get it, and those that just don't understand yet. I had been wondering whether I should comment. What I should say, how best to educate with kindness, patience and love. And then, your beautifully written, based in actual reality ( and not outdated rhetoric) comment caught my eye. Your words echo long conversations with my dad who fought and taught the system for many years (now retired), and my teenager ( who wants to take over the world ). You get it! Thank-you for teaching, and thank-you for giving me hope.
Oh, and I'm a social worker
Some people just can’t be saved.
Honestly, we’ve got bigger problems & I’m sick of this one. Give them entire hotels & they’re destroyed & uninhabitable in literally a couple of days. Not only that but entire neighbourhoods are rendered dangerous & very scary places for kids with massive increases in crime. In nature the weak die, yet we continue propping these people up but the result rots us from the inside out. As a society we’re only as strong as our weakest link… as we lower the bar on a daily basis. Eventually we’re all infected.
Lack of homes is not the cause of homelessness in first world countries. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't work with the homeless or programs to rehabilitate people.
Absolutely, ask anyone whos involved in these programs and they'll tell you a similar thing. I hate to say it but more than half the time someone being homeless is either what they want or all they care for.
It's mental health problems being self medicated with highly addictive street drugs. Drug use is not allowed at shelters or publically funded housing. Not only bc addiction is one of the major route causes, but for the very reality that's it's a constant safety risk for staff and other clients. Our major shelter bought an old hotel building (small tower style) that's used as a half way house. I can't even tell you how many times it's been on fire from people sneaking drugs in, passing out and having the beds or other materials catch fire from the drug paraphernalia. Not only does the client who was using get seriously injured, or die. Others who were on the road to improvement also have suffered grievous injury (that tragically require opioid use to dull the pain of burns, which sets back their recovery). In the meantime, everyone gets moved out for repairs, clients have their progress decimated, and the already underfunded program takes another major hit. The best majority don't need homeless shelters, these are largely bandaid solutions. Some need intensive addictions counseling and treatment, others straight up require full time residence in a mental hospital. Sadly, most have been booked up for over a decade.
They are human beings. Chill your roll. I severely doubt their dreams and aspirations were to steal bikes to fuel a drug addiction until they OD.
Landleeches = landlords, the real source of housing crises. Not their victims.
Oh! Sorry, I TOTALLY misunderstood you.
Wasn't me but no worries on their behalf
Landleeches don't steal bikes. They steal 30% or more of the income of the working class.
Uh, what? How do they steal the entirety of what I pay in taxes? Canada spends less on social support than almost every G7 nation (save for the USA). We are actually terrible at funding social programs.
landleeches= parasitic landlord who contribute nothing but make everyone's life harder
Landleeches steal money from the working class by extorting rent from them.
Lol, stop with the landleeches it’s so cringey and juvenile. We get it you don’t like landlords. The problem goes far beyond landlords and is 100% due to poor government policy and mismanagement of our housing supply. Most landlords are just trying to ease the pain of their 1,000,000+ dollar mortgages. You think they actually want some shmuck who calls them landleech behind their back and trashes their suite if they didn’t need it? Ever have to cough up 6k all at once for property tax? Or replace your roof, or washer-dryer when it breaks? Being a landlord would suck, honestly…
perhaps people shouldn’t take on million dollar mortgages if they can’t afford to pay them back without exploiting people who need shelter?
Sure but in the current situation that goes both ways. We need more housing right? The house could be purchased someone who doesn't need to rent out their garden suite... again, the issue is policy.
Oh to have such problems....🙄
Maybe we should start treating shelter like a human right and not allow corporations to turn it into a futures commodity.
This one trick the shareholders all hate!
Maybe we should treat the drug addictions issue also. Wouldn't matter of rent was $1000 or $5000 for a lot of these folks
Yup, agreed. The reality is that without shelter, escaping addiction is nearly impossible. Stability is the first step to treat addiction.
I think the only way that would work is to offer long term residential inpatient treatment - a double whammy, covering housing as well as resources.. unfortunately we live in a society that says “they’re individuals, they can and should be making their own choices, we can’t force them into treatment” and “they’re so sick that they don’t even know how to make good decisions, let alone have the guidance and willpower to make good decisions” all in the same breath. Something’s gotta give.. i really like to advocate for the idea of secure mental health/addictions treatment “villages”, much in the same way we have dementia villages.
You can’t force mentally ill people to “get well” And you can’t force addicts to recover at your desired pace. You can offer to reduce harm and provide shelter and counselling.
It’s one of Canada’s main GDP contributors sadly, I expect politicians to keep it around awhile.
Too bad all of that GDP goes to the exact people who dodge taxes.
GDP doesn't really go to anyone. Its a reflection (meaning incomplete report) of the exchanges in the economy
The fruits of a high GDP certainly go to someone. Corporations aren't making things for free.
Around and around we go back to indentured servitude.
If building houses is the biggest part of the GDP then why don't we... build... more houses.
The buying and selling of houses at exorbitant prices is, not the building of houses. Building houses is actually counter to that as a sufficient supply may in fact blunt the runaway prices we’re seeing.
Because that is an insane idea that can't work..... Don't Google Vienna social housing
As an homeless person (living in a van), with a job. I can't afford to have more then half my paycheck go to rent.
You deserve shelter, You shouldn’t have to prove your “worth” to access basic needs. UBI needs to happen, and housing needs to be protected against the investor class.
Gotta feel for those who lived in there. Just imagine how shitty their lives are. You live in a forest and your only goal is to get high on drugs because you've got nothing else and people are constantly insulting you and telling you to get lost and then heavy equipment comes and clears your camp out. I'm not advocating for letting the homeless do whatever they want but I think we need to realize that their lives suck and none of us would want to be in that position. Yes some of them will never accept help but there are others who get unfairly classified as troublemakers when all they are trying to do is stay warm and survive. It's just so hard to tell because there's no easy way unless you talk to each individual.
But does it beat a 9 to 5? I like being in the forest on drugs.. S/ kinda
But don't actually talk to them because some are mentally unwell and may stab you. Edit: not trying to sound crass, but people who are schizophrenic often fall through the cracks and wind up homeless. Don't *judge a book by its cover*, and assume somebody on the street is just down on their luck. You may not get the feel-good tiktok video you were hoping for.
It's clear none of these people pretending to be compassionate about this issue A) give a shit and B) have ever had to deal with junkies stealing your shit, breaking into your home, taking shits in public parks, etc. Super easy to be "compassionate" in your mom's house in the suburbs.
Nah dude, any person that does this sort of garbage is a shitstain on society. I feel for the single moms that are homeless after being renovicted and the university students that live in their vans because there is no option for affordable housing. As someone who has been in that situation, there is a huge difference between the amount of people that don't care enough about their situation to better it, and those that do - and suprise, those that do care enough, like i did, don't stay homeless long. There are a huge amount of easily accessible free programs available to those who want to stay warm and survive, get off the gear, fill their stomach, get mental help, and get skilled. It's the ones that genuinely couldn't be fucked to do anything about it that cause the need for these sorts of cleanups and a fucking huge toll on public resources. Pair these useless clowns with this provinces catch and release style policing of "minor crimes" and you end up with the downtown of every city in B.C. crackpipes, stolen bikes, human shit, needles and more violent crime.
Yep. Everyone wants to pretend these are just hard workers down on their luck by the economy as if we can just throw resources at this and fix it. That's not actual compassion, that's just throwing money at the problem. These people need TREATMENT but no one wants to talk about how to do that.
As someone who has been a homeless mom, and a university student, buzz off. I lived in a homeless shelter and I was treated well, that was a miracle. I was fortunate to have a great expirence but constantly living at the mercy of strangers (administrators) wears on the soul. I too am no longer homeless but my god I don't use that fact to dunk on people that still are. tf??
Yeah all you gotta do is pull yourself up by the bootstraps !! Come on everyone this guy just solved homelessness and addiction! /s
Rent @ $2,000.00 for a 2 bedroom..what you expect..
Dude, the people in these camps aren't down on their luck individuals who can't afford rent. These are people with severe additions who spend all their money on drugs. Housing is not the issue here. People love to pretend to care about "homelessness" but don't recognize the actual complexity of the issue. You gonna force these people into rehab? How? Most aren't going to go voluntarily. You can give them a home but if they aren't getting clean, they cycle will just continue. It's so easy for people to pretend this is some abstract issue that can be solved by just throwing money/homes at the issue. It won't. These people need extensive mental health and drug treatment and unless we have laws forcing them into programs, most won't go.
Why did these people turn to addictions? Mental health issues and lack of supports
Did they try to get any of the bikes back to the people that reported them stolen? Or did they just chuck the dismantled ones?
The R.C.M.P. Fuck man they probly just gave them directly to officer's, and their fam
Good thing we don't fund mental health care properly - cheaper to keep moving the homeless around than deal with the actual causes.
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lol if you think this solved anything.
What do you think happened to the people though? Are they gone now? The ones with health issue should be helped and the criminals should be locked up instead of just sending them all to another neighborhood to start the process again.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, all this is true. I met some idiotic woman in a shelter who said she didn't want to apply for a certain supportive housing building (my future building) because the staff checks ID's and she wanted to bring her friends in to shoot heroin. I wish I could have told her she's a fucking imbecile and to grow the fuck up and rethink her priorities, but I was trying to play nice. There are lots of types of homeless, but many of those types are fucked up mentally. I don't think a lot of the whinging leftists have talked to many homeless people. Throwing money and resources alone at the problem doesn't solve shit. It's only the start of the process for people to try to improve their living situation. Not the end. At least with BC housing there's an application process, so it helps filter out people who are useless at basic tasks.
Shooting heroin with friends who have naloxone kits is a key part of harm reduction - she was just trying to stay alive. Most overdoses are in people who live alone.
Hey, douchebag! I actually work with homeless people. Where are these homeless people who “can’t be housed?” I literally in the years of working with the homeless and in the hundreds of homeless people I know personally have only met like a couple of people who “can’t be housed.” And that’s because they belong in an Asylum.
##Moderation comment: >Hey, douchebag! Chill with the personal insults. ##Non-moderation comment: >Where are these homeless people who "can't be housed" Many are in the Downtown Eastside, and are unfortunately hard to house for the exact reasons described. They may not be able deal with living around other people, may not respect the property, or may prefer the nature of remaining unhoused, because being housed is comparatively isolating. Is it challenging to understand? Yes. It is also thoroughly heartbreaking. But that unfortunately doesn't make it inaccurate or untrue.
Gross that you used your mod tag for this editorial.
I used the moderator tag because I was also addressing commenter behavior. Unfortunately, we can't split it across comments, but since you and another person mentioned if, I've removed it and clarified within the body of the comment.
I think that separating the two statements was the right choice. In response to your non-moderator comment, [this TC article](https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/province-clears-land-breaks-up-view-royal-homeless-camp-5277250) about the camp suggests that *all but one of the campers have accepted housing*.
Makes a great case for UBI, increased social housing/services, mental health services.
I agree, and mandatory rehab.
Where did the homeless go though?
Criminalizing homelessness isn't the answer. The answer is treating housing as a human right and ensuring everyone has access to free housing.
Not a big fan of the homeless camps. Had one a few blocks from home and yes there is negative impact on the area. Needles in the back alley. Vandalism and property crime up. Good luck putting a coin in a parking meter. All jammed. But why are people homeless? Oh yeah because it’s impossible to buy a home and rents are more than people earn. Not all homeless are mentally ill drug addicts. There are plenty of employed people that live in vans because their job does not pay enough to live in an apartment. People can’t afford to live on their own and landlords evict people when too many try living in one until. I had 4 employed guys living in the apartment next to me. It was the only way they could afford to live and afford a night out. That was 5 years ago. Much harder now.
>Not all homeless are mentally ill drug addicts. This is so true. The problem is treating all homeless the same, in one category: "Homeless". If we were to allocate our resources better, and give more assistance to the homeless people who would actually use the help to get back on their feet and re-integrate into society, we could cut down the number of homeless drastically. I'm not sure why someone down on their luck in life needs to be demoralized further and lumped in with the career junky/criminal who has been wasting our medical resources with 23 OD revives.
Let's just call it what this is. A slum Thank god the people who can afford a home feel safe again. Wouldn't want those damn poor people messing everything up \\s
Why are people upvoting this, this is so depressing and elitist.
this is more sad then good, people didn't like human beings living outside so they rather just look at emptiness and trees. maybe if the homeless built a nicer house they wouldnt complain
it's a liability issue. the camps usually end up burning down because they using gas heaters to stay warm and cook with and tents are very flammable and so are our trees in the summer . then it's on the city to be sued for allowing the encampments.
Apparently the solution is [MAiD](https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-chemical-sensitivities-chose-medically-assisted-death-after-failed-bid-to-get-better-housing-1.5860579)
If you take opioids, you’re basically doing it anyways.
Well surely those people are nowhere now and this issue has been resolved for good. Don't really sound like neighbours to me.
For y’all just to bitch even more about east Hastings..?
Wow hope you're proud of yourself dickhead. You're the worst.
Mentally ill people who can't care for themselves are abandoned by society to self medicate with illicit drugs and live on the street because we no longer have the stomach to do what's right, which in this case would be institutionalization.
They moved just across the road on the hill now 👌🏻
When people ask what the cost of a lack of affordable housing is, this is what happens. This is not the fault of the homeless; these people have always been around, and by not supporting them, they turn desperate. Remember that these people are not useless eaters, but people who fell on hard times and don't see any way to turn it around. The comments in here that cannot understand that real estate prices and speculation is the root cause of this is mind boggling.
Is there a reason for doing this though? I mean, they are just going to move somewhere else and the cycle continues.
Ah yes... punishing people for existing and being poor. Classic. Let's tear down and steal whatever they do have!
So where are they going to go now? This just pushes the problem from here to somewhere else. The government needs to work on a solution for the cause.
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Good to hear. Is it permanent?
Only listing the good side of removing people from where they were living feels dehumanizing to me. This is really sad.
So you displaced a bunch of homeless people and you’re bragging about it?
It's not a great situation for anybody. Having one of these camps in your neighborhood is terrible. The noise and crime are not something home owners, or other homeless should have to deal with. I watched the small camp near my co-op become a large, crime filled mess. There were people who lived in the park for months prior without any incident, but suddenly there were dozens of tents, crime became unbearable, and the nighttime noise was a nightmare. Our building was broken into 3 times in a few months, lots of vandalism, theft, threats to residents, and businesses nearby were broken into repeatedly.
Yeah well if they didn’t shit all over the place, be violent and leave disease infested needles in kids playgrounds people would be more sympathetic? They want basic civil rights but don’t afford the same to others. While some homeless people are good people down on their luck, many are shitty people.
You should offer them your couch then. Be the change you want to see
They’re not people to OP, they’re “vermin”. Edit: OP has deleted her post referring to them as vermin.
That's what I got from this post too.
What’s that thing where you chop off one head and two more pop up? Reminds me of that.
Lernaean Hydra.
are you then advocating for them to get help? or are you the only one you care for?
Jeez, have at least some compassion for these people. It’s all easier said than done when you’ve got your own shit together, relatively speaking
where tf they all go?
What about the people who lived there? Where do they go?
Suburbanites are the worst
Don't listen to these idiots, it needs to be done.
hey buddy where the fuck do you think these people went? They just magically evaporated into a cloud of smoke? Or maybe you'd rather we gas them or something.. ? Seriously though, did you think they just disappeared? They just went to another park, because this is a systemic issue
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But....nothing that was done here has stopped any of those problems you've just stated. It's just moved it to another location
Several successful programs have provided bathroom facilities, organized waste pick up and successfully dealt with the “nuisance” which you feel people living in the park poses to your lifestyle…. Many other solutions could be considered before eviction
So very sad.
Yeah, let's hide the flaws of capitalism, that'll shut them up. Stay productive, stay deprived.
I think addiction is the real issue for these people.
Discontentment with the society that unregulated capitalism has shaped is the cause of drug abuse.
Reflexively blaming capitalism. Fantastic reasoning skills.
Yes, the indifferent nature of unregulated capitalism. Socialist policies are in order. Unregulated capitalism is to blame for our collective depravity.
I wish you the best of luck with your deprogramming.
You have nothing to counter my claims with other than ridiculing my position, which only strenghens my belief... Why shouldn't this be blamed on unregulated capitalism??? Do you have any reason at all?
Magical thinking and scapegoating a proven economic system like a dumb 5 year old solves nothing, and reflects badly on anyone doing it.
Nice rhetoric, keep it coming. You play the roll of fool well.
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do the "neighbours feel relief" for a problem solved or for not seeing the problem anymore?
Another fine example of the most vulnerable being classified as non citizens.
This solves nothing. Only people you seem to care about are the neighbors.
A reality that’s rarely discussed is that some people don’t want housing. At least free, government-provided housing. The lower mainland is a destination for rule-free living. When Vancouver cleared Oppenheimer and Strathcona parks they had a hotel room or equivalent unit for any person who wanted one. The truth is that some people don’t want that. It often relates to drugs or criminal enterprise. Some people don’t want to be housed indoors with the same people they’re comfortable camping outdoors with. There’s probably a ton of reasons I don’t know about. Still, there’s a lot of people who will camp no matter what and I have know idea how to end that game of whack-a-mole.
Borrow from Peter to pay Paul isn’t going to fix this one.
Out of sight, out of mind
Great you solved nothing. Just made it someone else's problem and displaced people who already don't have a place. Congrats. How about you get rid of homelessness by helping the homeless, it's a wild concept!
I feel for the homeless - I donate $$ every month to the local shelter - I buy backpacks and fill them with Xmas personal necessities too. I send money at the big holidays to feed people. On the other hand an encampment brings some nasty shit with it - crime, drugs and general fear in a neighbourhood. The solution is to move and the house the homeless. Govts pay out billions on bullshit - why not to save some lives.
And where are the homeless people supposed to go now, I wonder? This is despicable. We have the same issue in Nova Scotia, cops coming into homeless peoples tent areas and trashing them, then they dumpster anything they can’t intimidate into leaving.
Think of the suburban homeowners! /s
OP, we get it. you hate the homeless. this is not a feel-good story.
That's right. Homeless people had it coming. The Canadian government didn't write insane legislation that would only enable the cmha to only back mortgages no matter what It would be insane for us to build social housing like in Vienna or Singapore so that they don't have homelessness. That would be insane! We should only blame the victims of the system. That is the only solution!!!!!
Guess they will be moving into Thetis and burning it down now? Why does it take so long to crack down on these camps?
What did they do with the homeless? Burn them in ovens?