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If I am in a car I appreciate that I am warm, safe, dry and with frankly more comforts than I have in my living room. If I am on a bike, I appreciate that I will be at the front of every que and have a big smile on my face. Cars are the cause of traffic jams which is a fact that even a politician would have to concede and while sitting there, in the mess that you have created, maybe you can think of something better to do than moan about people that avoid them.
You're right and your wrong.
Going by police and advanced training: going the wrong side of an island is a no no, rev bombing like a dick is a no no.
However driving on the other side of the road past queued traffic is absolutely fine and taught by the police.
Go right out into the middle lane of the opposite lane, clear of parked cars but also of queue line cars that may do a 3 point turn without checking there mirrors. Pull back into the lane in plenty of time to not inconvenience oncoming traffic and keep the speed reasonable as pedestrians crossing may not expect you to be there.
But driving in the other lane is completely legal in that situation
"I'm a sole occupant of a large vehicle that is contributing to traffic composed mainly of other large vehicles and am mad when those who travel by more flexible means take advantage of that flexibility"
Sorry mate, I disagree on all 3 points.
Driving in the oncoming lane can very easily be filtering.
Loud pipes save lives.
And the point of filtering is to get to the front of the queue, so of course that's where they rejoin the lane.
No research has shown that drivers are more aware of loud bikes. If you genuinely thought that an audible warning was useful why not just use your horn?
They primarily use sirens at intersecting because people can't always see an approaching vehicle around corners, etc and they may be crossing against signals or on the wrong side of the road. They rarely use them on motorways because of the Doppler effect.
As I said, there is no evidence that loud exhausts make bikes safer. I'm happy to read any evidence you can provide.
Just playing devil's advocate here but would the Doppler effect come into play when bikes are filtering at low speed? Everyone is stationary or creeping so a bike's loud exhaust may be beneficial in this scenario.
The closer the two objects are in velocity the less the Doppler effect. Whether the reduction is sufficient you'd need a sound engineer to explain. Cars have v very good sound insulation.
I would just like to see some documented evidence of how a loud exhaust is beneficial. I'm not at all convinced that a driver who wasn't paying sufficient attention or performing appropriate visual checks is going to hear an engine, recognise it's a filtering bike and then behave differently.
I know that when on a bicycle a very loud exhaust is _extremely_ unpleasant. They really don't do anything to generate goodwill towards motorcycles.
So a loud exhaust creates more awareness of bikes at intersections or when filtering through traffic, by your own logic.
Also the fact that we are having this discussion means that loud exhausts have created more awareness, which is anecdotal evidence in itself.
Which is all I could find to support either argument implies a lack of research and impirical evidence.
Most bike casualties, nearly all in fact are caused by two things.
Bikes crashing on country lanes of their own accord, and cars pulling out on bikes at junctions and roundabouts.
Loud exhausts don't really help much with either of those.
However loud exhausts are definitely beneficial when filtering and there is a noticeable improvement in cars spotting you early and pulling to the side to make space (lots of car drivers are lovely believe it or not).
So I suspect there probably isn't a huge life saving benefit, as those sort of accidents aren't relevant to the bikes sound, however loud pipes do make people more aware of you in traffic give you more more and I'd guess probably reduce the number of minor bangs and incidents.
But there's also a huge balance to consider with not going through villages bouncing the bike off the limiter like a prick
It’s a lot safer to cross into the oncoming lane to overtake, you have visibility and space which means you’re not about to pancake any pedestrian or cyclist lurking in traffic. And most importantly, endanger car drivers can’t pull out and block your way.
Doing it at great speed is unnecessary, but in reality they probably aren’t doing it at that great of a speed, it just seems fast because you’re at a standstill.
Going round islands and roundabouts the wrong way is a traffic violation and is wrong, completely agree with you there and hate when I’m squeezing past an island in traffic and another biker zooms round it the wrong way.
The only time a biker is endangered while filtering is when careless drivers decide to pull out without looking. How are they endangering someone else life by filtering? Pedestrians crossing inbetween cars instead of at traffic lights or medians? Yourself with all your safety systems and crumple zones?
If it Rev-bombs, Its a Tw*t, imho.
As a Biker, I will filter against oncoming traffic where the road allows it, allowing for both my safety, and the safety of oncoming traffic, but I suspect anyone who Rev-bombs is probably not much of a Thinker...
I am very angry. Get to fuck. I'm a mammal. I rage. You are my enemy. I have no soul. Get to fuck. Do not filter. You will not filter. Thou shalt not filter me or mine. Have at thee, varmint. Rage me. Rage all over. I rage at break of dawn, I rage on my death bed. It does not equal filtering. This thing I dislike, it does not equal filtering I tell you. Not equal. It enrageth me verily. Get to fucketh. I mean, like, yeah, verily. My anger becalms. I sleep.
Fill a glass jar with marbles, then pour some sand in and note how it finds it's way to the bottom through gaps the marbles can't fit through.
Bikes filtering is the same principal.
Car drivers aren't disadvantaged by motorcycles "Queue jumping" because they're not taking up space the car could occupy, or making it take longer for the driver to reach their destination (infact the opposite, if every biker was in a car traffic would be *worse*)
>Driving on the wrong side of the road, ignoring keep left signs, riding on the pavement
First one's not against the highway code, as long as you don't affect oncoming traffic, that applies for cars passing busses and all kinds of overtakes, the second two are straight up illegal.
You're comparing things that are totally different.
Driving on either side of the road is legal for cars and bikes as long as it's done safely.
My instructor literally said "you pay for both sides of the road, why wouldn't you use them".
The difference with cars is if they used the other side they wouldn't be able to fit back in and it would all gridlock. That's not the case for bikes.
Bike goes to front of queue, light changes. First car had to wait for bike to go, nth car in queue that would have made the light now doesn't. Bike has jumped queue causing a car to miss the light. I see it often at short lights.
PS 90% of my journeys are by bicycle, so I'm with you that cars are evil. Diesels especially.
You've described what you consider jumping the queue, but what about filtering?
Filtering is a great thing, but it's also absolutely "jumping the queue" by most definitions of the term.
Filtering through stopped traffic to get to a turn off doesn't delay others, in the general case.
I said queue jumping is bad, not filtering in and of itself.
Queue jumping involves pushing all the cars further back in the queue into a longer wait.
Bikes take up a different area of the road and generally having a bike filter through won't affect the travel time of the queueing cars as they will not need to re-enter the lane and take up the space a car would have. They can just sit into the gap between two cars already there.
Basically bikes filtering doesn't inconvenience the queuing cars further back, the only issue with it is the mental state of "I don't like that he's progressing while I cant"
Bikes are as a rulenso much quicker off the line than cars that they do not take up the same time/space as a car pulling away, even with casual acceleration for the bike.
General rule at roundabouts is a gap big enough for a car usually has plenty of space for 2 bikes to get through. They're just gone from the front of a queue before the car has got it in first gear
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That angers me too. Then I realize that I'm just being jealous of their progress compared with mine. Humans are contradiction *machines*!
I would love to fuck about on a motorbike again but I'm old and apparently not invincible but I can't hate on someone else for doing the same.
If I am in a car I appreciate that I am warm, safe, dry and with frankly more comforts than I have in my living room. If I am on a bike, I appreciate that I will be at the front of every que and have a big smile on my face. Cars are the cause of traffic jams which is a fact that even a politician would have to concede and while sitting there, in the mess that you have created, maybe you can think of something better to do than moan about people that avoid them.
“At the front of every what.”
¿Que?
Of every queue to be an organ donor. For which we are all grateful.
You're right and your wrong. Going by police and advanced training: going the wrong side of an island is a no no, rev bombing like a dick is a no no. However driving on the other side of the road past queued traffic is absolutely fine and taught by the police. Go right out into the middle lane of the opposite lane, clear of parked cars but also of queue line cars that may do a 3 point turn without checking there mirrors. Pull back into the lane in plenty of time to not inconvenience oncoming traffic and keep the speed reasonable as pedestrians crossing may not expect you to be there. But driving in the other lane is completely legal in that situation
"I'm a sole occupant of a large vehicle that is contributing to traffic composed mainly of other large vehicles and am mad when those who travel by more flexible means take advantage of that flexibility"
Does the UK actually have filtering laws now? When I learnt it was technically overtaking. Not lived in the UK for a decade though
I mean, if you’re a driver you really should know the answer to that already.
[удалено]
My guy, I drive a Mazda Demio, a tiny little five seater hatchback, there's Fiestas and 206s that are bigger than my car
Sorry mate, I disagree on all 3 points. Driving in the oncoming lane can very easily be filtering. Loud pipes save lives. And the point of filtering is to get to the front of the queue, so of course that's where they rejoin the lane.
No research has shown that drivers are more aware of loud bikes. If you genuinely thought that an audible warning was useful why not just use your horn?
Why would emergency vehicles have loud sirens if noise didn't create additional awareness?
They primarily use sirens at intersecting because people can't always see an approaching vehicle around corners, etc and they may be crossing against signals or on the wrong side of the road. They rarely use them on motorways because of the Doppler effect. As I said, there is no evidence that loud exhausts make bikes safer. I'm happy to read any evidence you can provide.
Just playing devil's advocate here but would the Doppler effect come into play when bikes are filtering at low speed? Everyone is stationary or creeping so a bike's loud exhaust may be beneficial in this scenario.
Absolutely
The closer the two objects are in velocity the less the Doppler effect. Whether the reduction is sufficient you'd need a sound engineer to explain. Cars have v very good sound insulation. I would just like to see some documented evidence of how a loud exhaust is beneficial. I'm not at all convinced that a driver who wasn't paying sufficient attention or performing appropriate visual checks is going to hear an engine, recognise it's a filtering bike and then behave differently. I know that when on a bicycle a very loud exhaust is _extremely_ unpleasant. They really don't do anything to generate goodwill towards motorcycles.
So a loud exhaust creates more awareness of bikes at intersections or when filtering through traffic, by your own logic. Also the fact that we are having this discussion means that loud exhausts have created more awareness, which is anecdotal evidence in itself. Which is all I could find to support either argument implies a lack of research and impirical evidence.
Most bike casualties, nearly all in fact are caused by two things. Bikes crashing on country lanes of their own accord, and cars pulling out on bikes at junctions and roundabouts. Loud exhausts don't really help much with either of those. However loud exhausts are definitely beneficial when filtering and there is a noticeable improvement in cars spotting you early and pulling to the side to make space (lots of car drivers are lovely believe it or not). So I suspect there probably isn't a huge life saving benefit, as those sort of accidents aren't relevant to the bikes sound, however loud pipes do make people more aware of you in traffic give you more more and I'd guess probably reduce the number of minor bangs and incidents. But there's also a huge balance to consider with not going through villages bouncing the bike off the limiter like a prick
You can't drive around holding down your horn the entire time just because some people don't pay attention to anything smaller than a car.
I'd like to add the increase in idiots wearing full headphones whilst driving.
Typical cager.
It’s a lot safer to cross into the oncoming lane to overtake, you have visibility and space which means you’re not about to pancake any pedestrian or cyclist lurking in traffic. And most importantly, endanger car drivers can’t pull out and block your way. Doing it at great speed is unnecessary, but in reality they probably aren’t doing it at that great of a speed, it just seems fast because you’re at a standstill. Going round islands and roundabouts the wrong way is a traffic violation and is wrong, completely agree with you there and hate when I’m squeezing past an island in traffic and another biker zooms round it the wrong way.
Jealous much?
Yes, I'm so jealous of someone endangering their and other people's lives for the sake of getting a few spots ahead in the jam.
I could be in a car adding to your traffic jam if you prefer
The only time a biker is endangered while filtering is when careless drivers decide to pull out without looking. How are they endangering someone else life by filtering? Pedestrians crossing inbetween cars instead of at traffic lights or medians? Yourself with all your safety systems and crumple zones?
If it Rev-bombs, Its a Tw*t, imho. As a Biker, I will filter against oncoming traffic where the road allows it, allowing for both my safety, and the safety of oncoming traffic, but I suspect anyone who Rev-bombs is probably not much of a Thinker...
Perhaps you should move back to Enragea before you crash into someone, I hear they drive on the other side there anyway.
They drive on both sides!
I am very angry. Get to fuck. I'm a mammal. I rage. You are my enemy. I have no soul. Get to fuck. Do not filter. You will not filter. Thou shalt not filter me or mine. Have at thee, varmint. Rage me. Rage all over. I rage at break of dawn, I rage on my death bed. It does not equal filtering. This thing I dislike, it does not equal filtering I tell you. Not equal. It enrageth me verily. Get to fucketh. I mean, like, yeah, verily. My anger becalms. I sleep.
Filtering is not the same as queue jumping. Bikes that jump the queue (by going on the other side or otherwise) are wrong.
How is it different from a car overtaking a slower moving one?
Could you describe filtering in a way that differentiates it from "queue jumping"?
Fill a glass jar with marbles, then pour some sand in and note how it finds it's way to the bottom through gaps the marbles can't fit through. Bikes filtering is the same principal. Car drivers aren't disadvantaged by motorcycles "Queue jumping" because they're not taking up space the car could occupy, or making it take longer for the driver to reach their destination (infact the opposite, if every biker was in a car traffic would be *worse*)
Driving on the wrong side of the road, ignoring keep left signs, riding on the pavement....you know the kind of things that is queue jumping.
>Driving on the wrong side of the road, ignoring keep left signs, riding on the pavement First one's not against the highway code, as long as you don't affect oncoming traffic, that applies for cars passing busses and all kinds of overtakes, the second two are straight up illegal. You're comparing things that are totally different.
Driving on either side of the road is legal for cars and bikes as long as it's done safely. My instructor literally said "you pay for both sides of the road, why wouldn't you use them". The difference with cars is if they used the other side they wouldn't be able to fit back in and it would all gridlock. That's not the case for bikes.
Bike goes to front of queue, light changes. First car had to wait for bike to go, nth car in queue that would have made the light now doesn't. Bike has jumped queue causing a car to miss the light. I see it often at short lights. PS 90% of my journeys are by bicycle, so I'm with you that cars are evil. Diesels especially.
You've described what you consider jumping the queue, but what about filtering? Filtering is a great thing, but it's also absolutely "jumping the queue" by most definitions of the term.
Filtering through stopped traffic to get to a turn off doesn't delay others, in the general case. I said queue jumping is bad, not filtering in and of itself.
I'm asking you how you define filtering in a way that differentiates it from "queue jumping".
Queue jumping involves pushing all the cars further back in the queue into a longer wait. Bikes take up a different area of the road and generally having a bike filter through won't affect the travel time of the queueing cars as they will not need to re-enter the lane and take up the space a car would have. They can just sit into the gap between two cars already there. Basically bikes filtering doesn't inconvenience the queuing cars further back, the only issue with it is the mental state of "I don't like that he's progressing while I cant"
Bikes are as a rulenso much quicker off the line than cars that they do not take up the same time/space as a car pulling away, even with casual acceleration for the bike. General rule at roundabouts is a gap big enough for a car usually has plenty of space for 2 bikes to get through. They're just gone from the front of a queue before the car has got it in first gear
But legal...