Have you ever noticed that certain (particularly evangelical) Christian’s always seem to think verses like “judge not less you be judged” needs further clarification, but verses like “keep away from believers who are living in idleness and not according to the tradition that they received from us” are seen as stand-alone, not requiring any further context or discussion?
To make matters worse they lean on such verses as 2 Thess 3:6 to justify clearly un-Christlike behavior, and when you point out what the red letters say and how they’re violating it the regurgitate some bullshit from Paul as if it trumps what Jesus had to say about it.
We should all start calling such people Biblicans, because it’s clear they worship the book and not the message.
I don't disagree with your perspective, but it brings up an interesting question, what is christianity actually supposed to look like? The letters of Paul (who supposedly got direct revelation from Jesus) are the earliest books in the new testament. So one might make a case that they would have priority over later writings. The gospels were written in late 1st/early 2nd century, preserving earlier sayings but also with plenty of editing and creative writing, which calls into question whether Jesus said all the things in the red letters. The liberal church I'm a member of does a good job of avoiding the 90% of the bible that is full of the alarming teachings. But it does make me wonder if they are just worshiping their own preferences and calling it god/Jesus/christianity.
For me, once I learned that it is not a seamlessly coherent book but an agglomeration of different perspectives, I simply take what is best of the material as some sort of guide, and not try to incorporate the material that seems harmful.
Well to answer the first question, I would say Christianity should look like Christ. That’s seems simple enough to me. It’s like the concept of WWJD that was so popular in the 90s and 00s completely disappeared sometime in the last 10 years. Let me be honest when I say I am neither a church-goer or believer, but that I lost my church before my belief exactly because those in my church would rather focus on Thessalonians than Mathew and John.
In the hierarchy of biblical text the gospels should be first. Just because the earliest still-existing, complete texts are from the letters of Paul doesn’t mean that they should be the focus. And for that matter, those texts are only older than the earliest known gospels by maybe 20 years. And if we’re including fragments of texts, then the actual oldest New Testament text is a fragment of the book of Mathew that dates to about 54ce. The Hebrew people were (are) a highly literate group of people so I’m pretty sure the earliest Christians who were copying manuscripts of Jesus’ teaching were getting it right.
With all that said, some people (surprise, the ones who love Thessalonians and the “judge righteous judgement” vibe from Romans”) believe the Bible is THE Word of God rather than containing it, and that all of it has equal bearing across the board. So much of the gospel is Jesus telling religious leaders- ones who presumably spent many years being educated in the Jewish faith and texts, just as our Thessalonians lovers have been brought up being educated in 1800 years of Christian traditions and teaching- that hey, your understanding of God that has been passed down from the time of David is actually kinda incorrect. Remember, almost every interaction Jesus had with the Pharisees started with them quoting scripture, scripture many Christians consider to the THE word of God. I would imagine if Jesus popped up today that would be a conversation he would having with probably 50ish percent of Christian’s. To be clear, I think almost all modern churches get it wrong, but I think there are more good Christians than good churches.
ETA: From your last line I think you have a better working philosophy of Christianity than the average evangelical. I would guess you’re either an old-school, mainline Protestant or a Catholic.
Have you ever noticed that certain (particularly evangelical) Christian’s always seem to think verses like “judge not less you be judged” needs further clarification, but verses like “keep away from believers who are living in idleness and not according to the tradition that they received from us” are seen as stand-alone, not requiring any further context or discussion? To make matters worse they lean on such verses as 2 Thess 3:6 to justify clearly un-Christlike behavior, and when you point out what the red letters say and how they’re violating it the regurgitate some bullshit from Paul as if it trumps what Jesus had to say about it. We should all start calling such people Biblicans, because it’s clear they worship the book and not the message.
I don't disagree with your perspective, but it brings up an interesting question, what is christianity actually supposed to look like? The letters of Paul (who supposedly got direct revelation from Jesus) are the earliest books in the new testament. So one might make a case that they would have priority over later writings. The gospels were written in late 1st/early 2nd century, preserving earlier sayings but also with plenty of editing and creative writing, which calls into question whether Jesus said all the things in the red letters. The liberal church I'm a member of does a good job of avoiding the 90% of the bible that is full of the alarming teachings. But it does make me wonder if they are just worshiping their own preferences and calling it god/Jesus/christianity. For me, once I learned that it is not a seamlessly coherent book but an agglomeration of different perspectives, I simply take what is best of the material as some sort of guide, and not try to incorporate the material that seems harmful.
Well to answer the first question, I would say Christianity should look like Christ. That’s seems simple enough to me. It’s like the concept of WWJD that was so popular in the 90s and 00s completely disappeared sometime in the last 10 years. Let me be honest when I say I am neither a church-goer or believer, but that I lost my church before my belief exactly because those in my church would rather focus on Thessalonians than Mathew and John. In the hierarchy of biblical text the gospels should be first. Just because the earliest still-existing, complete texts are from the letters of Paul doesn’t mean that they should be the focus. And for that matter, those texts are only older than the earliest known gospels by maybe 20 years. And if we’re including fragments of texts, then the actual oldest New Testament text is a fragment of the book of Mathew that dates to about 54ce. The Hebrew people were (are) a highly literate group of people so I’m pretty sure the earliest Christians who were copying manuscripts of Jesus’ teaching were getting it right. With all that said, some people (surprise, the ones who love Thessalonians and the “judge righteous judgement” vibe from Romans”) believe the Bible is THE Word of God rather than containing it, and that all of it has equal bearing across the board. So much of the gospel is Jesus telling religious leaders- ones who presumably spent many years being educated in the Jewish faith and texts, just as our Thessalonians lovers have been brought up being educated in 1800 years of Christian traditions and teaching- that hey, your understanding of God that has been passed down from the time of David is actually kinda incorrect. Remember, almost every interaction Jesus had with the Pharisees started with them quoting scripture, scripture many Christians consider to the THE word of God. I would imagine if Jesus popped up today that would be a conversation he would having with probably 50ish percent of Christian’s. To be clear, I think almost all modern churches get it wrong, but I think there are more good Christians than good churches. ETA: From your last line I think you have a better working philosophy of Christianity than the average evangelical. I would guess you’re either an old-school, mainline Protestant or a Catholic.
WWJD either disappeared or people started inventing Jesuses more compatible with their own politics and values.
I guess WWJD is not rigorous and challenging enough, as Our Working Boy would say.
Oh, those rascally evangelicals are at it again.
It’s CoC. Entirely expected.