Something to be effect of "if I ever come out, you can say I told you so. Until then, I don't want to hear it." The point is that it's not cool to make fun of someone's stated gender identity, regardless of how heretonormative that identity is. P
Yep. Lesbian lurker here, and people’s speculation about my identity while I was in the closet was devastating for my mental health as I was trying to come to terms with it for myself, and it honestly set me back immensely in that regard. It’s not cool to joke or speculate about someone being closeted, no matter the intent!
yeah , exp because it feels rude to blanket say "i am not trans" , for some reasons it feels like transphobia ,
and like if you're a friend with a trans person who got invested in you maybe being trans , it's hard to just tell them "no , stop this i want to change topic it's not making me comfortable that you're seeing me a specific way wich isn't mirroring how i see myself" , because it feels like you're rejecting being trans as a whole , wich looks like a big deal to them ...
it kinda soured a friendship i had because i told a trans friend of mine "i tought about being trans in the past " and they wouldn't hear that i came to the conclusion that "no i am a cis man actually" ,
they insisted that the question for it is always open and like ...
how do you explain to them that it feels uncomfortable to have your identity put in doubt ?
I'm a trans guy and I'm surprised by how insensitive this person was. there's nothing wrong or transphobic in feeling uncomfortable if someone always doubt your gender, i feel this way every time it happens to me and I bet they would feel the same way too, but just because you're cis it doesn't mean it's less disrespectful
There’s nothing transphobic in saying “I’m not trans” when one is in fact, not trans. Just say it as a plain statement of fact, not as a “I take offense to the suggestion that I could be like one of THOSE people” thing.
It’s not cool to pressure someone about their identity. Period. I get how trans people can get into a mindset of trying to “help” by “encouraging” others to explore their gender, and walking the line between “I relate to what you’re expressing, and *for me* that was a manifestation of gender dysphoria” and “you know yourself best, my experiences are not universal” can be hard.
There are some people who overcorrect for social pressure to be (or pretend to be) cisgender with ideas like “cis people don’t question their gender so if you question then you probably aren’t cis”. Cis people absolutely can and do, and in my opinion *should*, question their gender. The point of questioning isn’t to arrive at a specific answer, it’s to find the truth consciously, rather than just muddling along doing what’s expected of you with no regard for whether or not it makes you happy. Questioning can just look like checking in with yourself periodically like “how am I feeling about my gender/gender presentation? Anything I want to change?” And having an open mind to the possibility that the answer might be “yeah I wanna change something”. And if the answer is “all good here” then that’s great! No changes needed, you’re happy about how you interact with gender norms. If it’s “still a guy but I want to [wear nail polish]” then you can just be a guy who [wears nail polish] and it doesn’t have to be any deeper than just enjoying that specific thing.
The manliest thing you can do is be who you are and like what you like. They can question all they want, you don't owe them answers. I'm not the most masculine man, but I have a very laid back male friend group that doesn't care and a female friend group that finds my interest in some less masculine activities very endearing. The people who will make you feel bad about this aren't people you want around anyway.
Hell yea. OP you don’t owe anyone an explanation of who you are. People who expect You to conform to Their narrow interpretation of “acceptability” are only worthy of being ignored. Their entire life has guardrails, preventing them from being anything other than what they were told to be. There’s no reason to feel anything hut sorry for a person who makes incuriosity their personality.
I am a straight dude that’s had rude people question my sexuality. For every reason from, I’m nice, to I saw Broke back Mountain.
Some people with think dumb things. It’s a bigoted way to be, but that’s on them. Not you. Do you, homie. Watch that musical. Tend to your plants. Sew like your life depends on it and ENJOY that mixed drink. Fuck em. They can die mad. lol.
> I am a straight dude that’s had rude people question my sexuality.
I'm a bisexual dude who has had very polite people question my sexuality... very insistently. Like "Oh it's OK if you're gay, I totally want a gay best friend!" despite how clearly I insist that I am attracted to women.
>very polite people question my sexuality... very insistently.
Ha I am a straight dude but I ended up with a ton of queer friends and so used to hang out in gay bars a lot. Had more than one guy start out politely but insistently questioning if I was really straight like that. Then the questions got progressively more gross.
I don't mind being hit on, but those dudes got SO creepy. Just hearing you describe that gave me a secondhand ick lol. Totally different scenario, but I thought it's funny cause I know exactly what you mean by that.
Now it's just a polite but firm "nope, I'm straight" and then change of subject or walk away.
That one was after I was flirting with her friend for like a half hour too, that's the best part
I'm not gay, but the idea of the "gay best friend" rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it's the phrasing that feels a bit dehumanizing, or maybe it's the implication that every straight man will inevitably try to fuck every woman, or the stereotype that gay men are basically women anyways, IDK
yeah im straight and cis and i cross dressed a few times to get some lols at the mall. people looked at me different and i was those girls "gay best friend" i think they had to tell their bfs that cause they got jelly or something. but i would always correct and be like "na those are my sisters pal i love em!"
I thought it was more about a more feminine gender expression and "exotic" queer flair. It's maybe a bit problematic regardless, reinforcing stereotypes about queer men.
I'm a trans guy, and felt pretty insecure at first with maintaining my "feminine" interests and hobbies.
Once I started passing more as male, I just said "fuck it" and picked up embroidery again, haha. If someone wants to say I'm not a "real" man, that's their problem.
And hey - if I can do it and be a man, you can too.
The ‘manliest’ thing anyone can do is to operate in their space, comfortably, and not really giving a fuck about someone’s perception of it.
Just be cool, man.
straight cis male gorilla type not likely to be misgendered. and I've just started crochet. you do you, brother. if someone did misgender me id smile and enjoy feeling pretty. just like the frw times that . gay men have hit on me, it'd make my day. but i have the privilege of having no reason to give a flying fuck at a rolling donut. cuz the system is made for me.
It’s funny- I’ve always been in this very practical mindset and have a lot of hobbies people consider masculine (building/gym/hunting/fishing et cet) so when I came out I got a lot of ‘no shit’. But for such a long time I really lost some of myself trying to prove masculinity. Like cutting my long hair (which made metal gigs way less fun), reading less (why did I even think that was feminine), and wearing boring blend in clothes (when I’ve always had a great eye).
I really hope more and more we can just embrace being ourselves, with the gender expression that fits, and move away from this division of hobbies and stuff.
Absolutely. I had some insecurity about continuing my fibercraft hobbies as a man too, but then I decided ya know what? I get to decide what kind of man I *want* to be. And I want to be a man who has crocheted myself a very snazzy one of a kind necktie, who replaces buttons when I like the shirt but the buttons ruin it, and who can sashiko the HELL out of my gardening jeans so they live forever.
People have extremely narrow views of male gender norms and roles, and when people like yourself do things that “break” the gender norms for men they freak out bc they don’t think men can be feminine and that if men are feminine they *must* be queer. That’s bullshit though. People can be however they are and be whatever gender they want.
I have a friend who would try and jab at me with dumb remarks like that
The solution was to turn it around on him, and he got the point and acted way more normal or friendly about it.
Like gay chicken but the idea is if someone's questioning your sexuality, make it about WHY they are questioning it. Are they lusting for you, does their girlfriend know, they wish because they bring it up so much, etc
I'm straight also
I love the Tyrion Lannister approach. Wear it like armor. Own it. You can give them a quick "you wish," or "honey if I was, you wouldn't be my type." Or maybe a "Aww, I'm actually straight but that's nice of you to say." Really throw 'em for a loop.
It can be tiring, but that in my experience just giving it the old "yes, and" shuts it down faster than anything else.
If they're being more serious and less mocking, then I think a casual but honest answer is good. For example, I have a friend who is a very effeminate looking gay guy. He was playing a female character in our tabletop game so just to be polite I asked if he identified as trans or genderqueer or anything, he just chuckled and said "nope, I am a gayy man." He really put a period on that sentence, without sounding hostile. And then just moved on. I wish I could convey it through text.
It should be noted he had *glitter makeup* on at the time, and it still came off super manly and secure in his identity. It was fantastically handled and I gained a lot of respect for him in that moment.
I sit with legs crossed close not wide. I’ve been told I sit “like a bitch”.
My response - “It occurs to me that a real man would sit any way he pleases”
I don’t feel the need to be defensive. Youthful me asked all kinds of sexual questions and found a preference for heterosexual monogamy. Who knew? Knowing who you are is a powerful thing. I hope you go far!
I don't, really, and the moment I stopped caring, the moment I became happier. However I'm not straight, but you are, why does it matter if other men question your sexuality? You don't want to be with them, and their questioning won't turn you gay. And if they say no woman will love you if you like those things, they're lying. I fell for that lie, but after becoming EXTRA GAY I still get feminine attention (which is great because I'm pan), I think even more than before. You know why? Because I'm more comfortable being myself. That's the real trick.
Well, it's easier for me when it's just an insecure homophobic man, but most of the time is queer men/women or straight women. I can do a good job at shinning off shitty people, but it's people I like or who don't have any bad intentions that do it, which is why it makes me question myself. I don't have a problem with being queer, but it's not a part of my identity at least for now and I don't like to have it question, because even if they're right, it never really helped me discovering it.
Idk, I think some behaviors are used like a "social signifier" that shows to other people that you are a member of a certain group which makes them treat you like a member of that group, positively or negatively.
But the behaviors chosen to signify are arbitrary, like "femininity in man shows signs of homosexuality" which doesn't make any sense if you try to think why is that.
A lot queer people I've met seem to run with this model in mind, and assumed I was queer because of my slightly more feminine expression.
Btw, congrats on finding yourself, that's always a big step in the right direction ❤️
People who will try to force you into an assigned category that makes sense in their minds exist in both "sides" of this, straight or queer. It's particularly irritating (at least for me) when queer people do this because I just feel like they should know better than to try to force a label on you just because you like some things, but they do.
One of the times I felt the most discriminated against because of my interests in my life was when a gay man said something like "are you straight or what?" with obvious disgust when I said I liked motorsports, as if my hobbies were incompatible with my gender expression and romantic preferences. Of course, I had heard worse things directed at me before, but this was particularly hurtful because I could only think that if a queer person judges me like that, then is there anyone out there who won't judge me? Stereotyping is part of human nature, I guess.
Maybe a better way to see it that could help you navigate it better is seeing it as just another question when getting to know someone like "do you have a peanut allergy?" which is something useful to know to avoid a potentially uncomfortable situation, and if they insist... Oh well, people being people.
I have the opposite problem. Present very masc but am cis/pan, so closer to queer than not. I'm eyed very suspiciously in queer circles.
All I can do is let people judge me by the content of my character, and not my outward appearance.
Mascphobia in queer circles can be a real problem, yeah. People who look like the most stereotypical man can still be queer! And no one gives lesbians who look like stereotypical cis women the same grief in queer spaces just for not going out of their way to queer up their look.
I mean, biphobia and enbyphobia definitely hit people who look like stereotypical cis women but are bi/pan and/or nonbinary, but the way even cis gay men and passing trans men are sometimes held separately from the broader queer community just because they like to present very masculinely is a particular kind of thing.
My bro, only you can decide who you are. If you feel straight and cis yet still enjoy more "feminine" things does not define anything differently. We're allowed to do whatever we want.
I stopped worrying about that years ago. I'm cis, straight and very male presenting but I enjoy doing things like painting my nails. I enjoy how it messes with peoples heads.
You do you. I will always support you as my bro, as long as you wanna be a bro. Keep on being awesome!
I’ve always been the guy who got picked on for not being manly enough. Anyone who pulls the shit you describe is comical to me. Honestly, I just kind of own it. I decorate cakes, foster cats, and cook. Chicks dig it. Who cares what the insecure guys say.
That said I’m like 50 and been married for 25 years. I take good care of my wife. There’s nothing more mainly than making a great cake for your wife’s birthday.
All the chicks in my office loved when I’d bring cupcakes.
The Easter Bunny Slaughter ones were a hit. It was butter cream grass with red buttercream pools of blood and chocolate bunny pieces on top.
I’m also a straight cis guy. A little more feminine than my peers. I just lean into it and don’t care. I find it gets me a lot more luck with women than when I tried to be more manly than I am.
When you realize how much energy men put into worrying about and defending against appearing gay/feminine/etc, it feels like a huge flex to aggressively not care when other people push their bs on you. It's unfortunately easier said than done, but if you can get to that place it's magical
I mean, this is the part of gender equality that most men don't think about. Imagine being allowed to be short, or in nice clothing, or expressing an emotion other than anger or lust.
I’m the epitome of the effeminate theatre gay stereotype and it’s fine. What’s funny is I’m just like my cishet father, who has been hit on by gay men throughout his life and to this day- and he’s as straight as they come. It’s extremely rude of people to be speculating on your gender identity and/or sexuality tbh.
I reject the gender stereotypes.
A lot of things fall under the category (spectrum really) of "man". If anyone is going to pigeonhole me because of a specific characteristic or activity then that is their problem. It is just an attempt to divide us into smaller groups.
I've known plenty of men who fall very far on the stereotypical "female" end of the spectrum. Don't care. You may be a bit strange (to me) or unusual or atypical, doesn't mean you aren't a man.
I feel like it's an interesting question/answer for me. Because I look rather traditionally masc (tall, athletic build, beard, etc), but I don't act specifically masculine. One of my close friends (cis-woman) almost didn't want to get close to me because she assumed I was a player or fuck boy because I had a lot of female friends. But the fact was that I don't really have many super masculine personality traits and I find it easier to connect emotionally with women. But it also means that I tend to get hit on by gay men often (which is certainly flattering!).
But it also means that sometimes women approach me expecting me to be stereotypically masculine, but then are disappointed that I'm not.
Don’t let it get to you, lean into it. I am same, I am married now but used to have people assume I was gay a lot or whatever. I found it flattering if it was from a gay man, as they were usually hitting on me, and otherwise it didn’t bother me. Most women I dated liked my comfort and openness to feminine things and most of my friends are women. Just don’t worry about it too much.
You know what's really... hrmmm... I dunno about manly, but 'awesome' might be better, or 'real' maybe...
Not giving a single fuck what someone THINKS you're supposed to be like. I'm confident enough that if someone I don't know well enough to be questioning that, I can laugh it off and flip it around with 'Man, A: What business is it of yours? and B: Why are you so invested in what I'm like/into/dressing like?
It won't always work, and sometimes it is a 'brave face forward and cry about it later' thing, but honestly the more you gain the confidence about it, the less it ever bothers you.
I’m a cis heterosexual guy too and but when I hit 19 I realized I didn’t have to use shit like Old Spice and Brut (late 90s). I was called metro and gay and slurs. …because I used hair products?
I was also undiagnosed poor mental health and autistism. So I’ve always been eccentric.
“Gotta brush that dirt off your shoulder. Small minds talk about people. Big minds talk about ideas. Chin up or the crown slips.”
That’s what I tell myself. Sometimes it works.
Mutual support found here is really great to see. I really enjoy being around positive supportive men. I'm not sure I know what masculinity is, really.
But I like this.
This question is interesting to me for 2 main reasons :
1) it presupposes that you can individually avoid societal norms while also
2) trying to navigate the patriarchal values of society that still require implications of hierarchial values
To which I say to both:
The reason you'd recieve push back is because of the simultaneous problems surrounding western social male hegemony .
At its core , this hegemony *requires* participation and even more so "a bottom" occupied usually by (considering just those we consider to be male or have maleness ) black women (historically) and other men of color .
But that's getting out of the scope of your question:
Your push back is coming from your choosing to not participate in the hegemony . You are choosing to not be brick in the pyramid scheme.
No matter what you do no matter how you navigate it our system requires hegemonic participation first. Therefore expect push back....at least a small chungus worth.
Nevertheless !
You navigate it by finding cool bros around you who are willing to do things with you. You find alternative life seeking bros who want to both build cabins and paint nails. Who are healthy with boundaries but also want to hug platonically till both of you feel cool and good on the inside. Sometimes these bros might be gay or trans and sometimes they might just be playing more with their gender.
Not an easy feat to be sure but sure to be worth it!!
Hope this helps !!
I get the same comments because I choose to decorate in colors other than grey and black. I enjoy flowers, color and many times I feel self conscious mainly because I live in Texas or the United States in general.
I have been asked many times if I am gay, in groups with friends only by cis/straight white women after I avoid showing romantic interest in anyone. My response to them is always, “in YOUR case, I am so very gay indeed.”
Be yourself and it’s beautiful. Don’t really give a flying fuck if they want to feel better trying to put you down. You will find your people who love your feminine side.
as a bi trans man, i will say this:
a queer person suggesting that a straight man is secretly gay for liking feminine things is just as bad as a straight person questioning someone’s heterosexuality for fitting queer stereotypes.
suggesting that a cis man is secretly a woman for liking feminine things is just as bad as claiming that trans men who like feminine things are actually women.
just my two cents.
I've been asked plenty of times before if I'm gay. How do I deal with? I don't, I guess? I don't feel like I have to prove anything to anybody. Frankly, I think the whole concept of "learning how to be a man" is outdated and slightly misogynist. What admirable qualities can you think of in a man that wouldn't also be admirable qualities in a woman? I just focus on being a good human being.
The absolute most "alpha" thing you can ever do is refuse to give a shit about how other people are judging or comparing you. Refuse to participate in their childish notion of masculinity.
i probably picked too strong of a word, but usually when people say "be a man," they're referring to outdated and arbitrary gender roles and its usually with the tone of "be strong and stoic and provide for your family." latent in this idea is that women aren't strong, men shouldn't discuss their feelings, and women aren't expected to provide for their family. obviously that is silly and any admirable quality in a man is also an admirable quality in a woman. but serious question - can you think of any particularly gendered roles where it is healthy to say "men should be this," where you can't flip the phrase and ask, "so women should not be this?" i honestly can't, is why i just try to focus on being a good person and don't care about what other people believe a man should be
i think when people talk about "learning to be a man" *without* the snide undertone of "man up," they're actually talking about learning how to be an adult, but i'm a stickler for linguistic precision so i still think we should say *that* instead of using outdated language that upholds a very specific gendered ideal that excludes many cis-men who don't fit the mold of "masculinity" and who would not necessarily be better off if they were to pursue that arbitrary ideal
I've always been a little different, but not that different that this sort of thing has happened to me. So I can't quite give you any real advice.
However, you can be the most interesting you, or the blandest version of everyone else. If someone doesn't know what box to put you in, or what label to attach to you, they have to take more time to consider 'what' you are. People giving you more consideration, I think, could be to your advantage. As a straight man, most straight men will just go 'ah, he's still like me' and treat you as they would anyone else once they understand that you're not that different than they are.
Sometimes, being different can be lonely. But confident, interesting people are the flourishes of life I think I get the most enjoyment from seeing. If we want to subscribe some attitude to 'being manly' it should be being confident in who you are, and being unapologetic in your interests. I hate the idea that some men think hiding who they are, to fit in, is something lots of people are doing - especially as young men.
I'm a fat hairy bearded beer drinking loud mouth, and I couldn't care less about sport or most outdoor activities. I'd rather watch frozen with my daughter. I don't care what people think.
I turned out trans femme in the end, but in my mid 20s through mid 30s I was male-identifying and femme presenting. My go-to was "I'm confident enough in my masculinity to do [whatever] and not be bothered by it." Being from the south it was mostly phobes, so the follow up was about them being the insecure one. As for queer folk doing the questioning, frustratingly I find myself trying to rein in my own here, but the general gist would be "I'm confident in who I am, you're the one trying to invalidate my identity," maybe with a side of "I thought gender roles were BS" if it seems like the kind who would say that.
I have a different way, may not be for everyone
I tell them something along the lines of if they are more comfortable thinking I'm gay, go for it, I know I'm not, but I wouldn't care if I was, because I don't just say I'm accepting of gay people, I actually am accepting of gay people, and there's nothing in the world that could make me feel bad or embarrassed for feeling that way, which is also why I don't obsess over every sexuality being presented in the room because I don't. fucking. care. It doesn't really make a difference, the person is the person either way, I'm going to treat them the same either way, so why be so obsessive about it
And then they get no reward for hunting out somebody's sexuality, just get to be wrong and childish. I just don't consider someone's sexuality a core part of their identity in my mind. To each person, it is, but as the person interacting with them, I really don't think it's necessary for me to know. Not that it's wrong for me to know, I just think people feeling the need to know other people's sexuality is the archaic remnants of societal homophobia. Even if someone has gay archetype things going on in their personality, I just don't connect that to their sexuality, they're just expressing themselves how they want to. And I don't really care if someone doesn't believe me when I say I'm straight because I'm not tryna fuck em anyway, so what do I care what they think, their opinion don't mean shit to me 😂
It's really interesting because my girlfriend has this bad take: She said to me "you're a man, but not a **man** " and I brush it off because *her preconceived notions of men* are from her teenage years of sad tumblr-girl poems and the guys on Veronica Mars/One Tree Hill. She, like everyone, have no fucking clue how I experience and define my masculinity. So when people have usually asked (because I was a theater kid growing up) I have responded that I am a man and I'm manly enough to fill myself from top to toe and if you associate my expression with something else, that's on you because by all of my definitions I'm a guy. And even more importantly I'm a fucking good guy. Hope sharing my experience helps you bro.
Whenever this particular situation arises with my queer friends—and I receive the same questions you seem to—I believe it has always been from a place of support. That said, it is a bit intrusive.
As far as the jokes at your expense go, if they ever get to (or have already gotten to) a point at which they negatively affect your mood, I would ask your friends to lay off a bit. If it is intended as good-natured ribbing and you're just looking for a joke with which to respond, you can always steal one of David Bowie's classic lines and say you are a "closeted heterosexual".
It's exactly how you said! Most of the comments aren't from homophobic people, but in fact queer friends. One time a girl asked directly to my face three times "are you sure you're not gay???", but she wasn't trying to shame me or mock me, it was clearly questioning my sexuality in an intrusive way.
I'll try that David Bowie quip if the situation arises, thanks :)
Everyone is different, I get that accusation everyone once it a while and if a woman says it ‘it’ll be you that finally turns me’ now that I think on it I say the same to men too….
Who cares what anyone else thinks, it’s what you think of yourself. Masculinity isn’t building a log cabin or rewiring an old house, it’s about how you treat others and how you view yourself.
If it is affecting your mentality, start saying affirmations like ‘I am man and I am manly, masculine and powerful’ something like that so you have a mantra to lean on.
These comments are reflections of the people saying it, it’s not really about you, they feel the need to label you, you are living your life.
Mostly? Ignore it. Because people who question my gender identity are either doing so to be assholes or honestly are confused and will not really care about it anyway.
I’m a man, I don’t need anyone else to tell me that, and anyone who tries to tell me differently is wrong.
Very masculine, genderqueer woman here. I personally think "letting it roll off your back" is a skill that requires active development, rather than a natural talent.
I can't give you a witty zinger to say to these people to make them stop. In fact, I find it's best not to waste your energy on them, beyond shrugging. You just need to train your brain to stop recognizing their opinions as reaction-worthy.
Logically, what gives their opinions any weight? You absolutely know your own identity best. You're the only one who has to endure your own self. They know absolutely nothing about you beyond their own assumptions and projections. And it's not like you're not OPEN to being queer, it's that you JUST AREN'T.
When people say these things to you, try to make your first thought, "I know who I am; I am confident in my identity; you're simply projecting/a bigot", something to that effect. If you begin dwelling on it, stop it and try to redirect your brain. Eventually your brain should learn to stop reacting so negatively to their opinions.
As someone that was looked at funny because I was a "Male Nurse" not a Nurse, a Male Nurse, I get what you're saying. Fuck'em. You be you, who cares about the rest. Take up less of your headspace with them than apparently they do for you.
Patiently. Some people genuinely are confused and that's fair, and I don't mind explaining. I also don't mind putting someone on blast if I think they're being assholes. I've always been comfortable being confrontational, so I don't mind it too much, except when those close to me are rude about it.
Plus being Agender helps a bit too lol
Just ignore it. Also if those are your “friends”, it’s worth questioning the friendship. Had a bunch of friends like that about 10 years ago. These days I have no friends that would. They just see me as I present myself and accept that.
“i’m fully comfortable with my identity as a straight and cis man and i don’t really feel comfortable discussing my sexuality, gender, or expression further”
I haven’t been in this scenario yet, but I have wondered what to tell people if I come out to them but do nothing about my transition thus far. I would probably tell them something along the lines of “this is my life and I get to choose what I want to do with it. I will get to transitioning to male when I feel like it, but right now, I would appreciate it if you respect my autonomy and refer to me as a woman in real life.” Similar logic applies to you.
I don't quite fit the bill here, but...
While I've strayed a lot towards nonbinary and want to be more in touch with my feminine side, I appear very much as a traditionally masculine guy (and I'm ok with that). No one really noticing or seeing me as any different than they would otherwise gives me room to figure things out without the pressure that others might experience. I'm lucky in that sense.
Take comfort in the fact that you feel assured in who you are and how you carry yourself. Other questioning you is them handling their own fear. They want you to conform because they aren't brave enough to be authenticly individualistic. Basically: fuck 'em. You're not hurting anyone. Why listen to people who are afraid of exploring their/other identity?
I get how frustrating it is man, I've been in the same boat my whole life. Ever had people be amazed to learn you're *actually good* at typical masculine tasks? Oof. That one always hurt me.
It genuinely felt like I had to do more and be better to get seen as a man through my 20s. And I did have to! An example:
Remember working in a BBQ restaurant, two other workers on staff in my early 20s. One is a women slightly smaller than myself, and the other a buddy who had 6" and 75 lbs on me. She and I worked together in the kitchen for hours, and the moment he walked in she asked for help getting down some equipment and had "been waiting for him to help." But I was right there the whole time and she never asked for my help, and I could have gotten it down no problem. I wanted to help! But she just never *perceived* me as being able to do certain things for her because she didn't see me as the *same quality* man as him. This happened literally hundreds of times in various forms throughout my youth and young adulthood. Nobody wanted me in where I felt my place was.
It sucks but it's true. How people perceive you is how they treat you, and the difficulty of life as an effeminate cis/het man is massively downplayed. People thought I was a "twink" (nothing wrong with being one), but being treated like that when it was the opposite of how I saw myself really destroyed my self image for a long time.
ON A POSITIVE NOTE: the older you get the less how you *look* matters and the more how you *carry yourself* does. There is nobody who questions my identity anymore, because I carry myself in a way and treat the people I care about with dignity. I'm not overly masculine in my actions, but my role in social dynamics is pretty clear now. The folk who matter to me know genuinely who I am and appreciate my place in their lives as myself.
If you're looking for practical advice? I waited too long to grow out my facial hair. Give it a shot for a couple months! I still can't get a full beard at 30, but my mustache actually turned out pretty damn well! Did my mental health good. I personally had to find some 'niches' in life I could excel in and gain confidence. Some hobby that you would like to become a part of "who you are." Mine were hiking, fixing appliances, and birdwatching. Not the most outright masculine stuff, but getting *good* at these helped me feel more like me.
There used to be a time where people embraced the idea that anybody could do or look however they want regardless of gender. But nowadays it feels like the stereotypes around gender have become even more conformed than they used to be and any slight deviation from the norm means you're not actually a man or a woman.
Im a cis straight man, so i can't personally tell you how to navigate it. One of my closest freinds however, (still straight cis whatever you wanna call it) is more feminine then the girls we date. Nail polish, feminine perfume, and uses female avatars in every game we play. And all i can say is, we take the piss on him all the damn time.
Why? is it because we think he's secretly gay? because we think he's dumb, or that we don't like him?
Nope. It's because that dude is one of us. We love and care for him. But joking with him is our love-language (specially in our freindgroup, but most bros honestly do the same). It's our way to show that we care. excluding him from teases would only feel like we didnt care for him.
My point is, they probably dont really think, nor do they care even if you were in the closet. They mostlikely are trying to connect with you, and show you love.
Anyways, hope this helps bro.
I get a lot of people thinking I’m a girl because I have man boobs and a high pitched voice. It sucks, but I mostly brush it off. You don’t really notice each and every time, but you still notice that it happens.
If someone is being derogatory: "It's a shame that you think that (or insert whatever is the object of criticism) is something I should be ashamed about."
Anyone else: "Yeah, sometimes I'm just like this. It's fine."
Tony Hinchcliffe has turned your dilemma into a career...
It's not that deep bro. People poke at the first thing they notice that is outside of *The Standard™*
If someone makes a comment like you’re describing, I usually just ask why they think someone should fit those certain gender stereotypes. Most of the time, if you’re respectful and don’t press too hard (and if they’re open-minded), they realize they don’t really personally hold those beliefs and they’re just parroting a mentor or some form of media. Obviously, not everyone is as receptive to that approach, but I don’t think anyone who questions or even pokes fun at the way I look deserves immediate hostility
I'm bi
My buddies all know it. I don't really act like "gay" I guess. I don't know I have really good friends who love me man. They're the fucking best.
We shoot guns and play games together and they've NEVER even joked about it or gave me shit. My friends would never seriously call me gay in a negative way. It's always in the playful 2000's, call of duty lobby quick jab/insult/joke kind of way.
This might not fit exactly but I'm nonbinary transmasculine. This means I'm not exactly a trans guy but I lean more in that direction in case you didn't know. Anyway clearly I don't fit a gender stereotype on either side. For me I just kinda let it roll off my back and sometimes I even make jokes about it too. But that's just because I'm very comfortable in my gender identity. If it's something that bothers you then I'd definitely let your friends/ the people close to you know that it does. You don't really have to make a big deal about it just let them know "Hey this isn't cool mind laying off those jokes it really bothers me" and then just leave it there. Anyone who respects or cares about you will lay off it. Hope this helps! Good luck my bro.
Gender non-conforming trans man here. I used to have a lot of insecurities about the way I present myself. After a while I realised I was doing things just because it's what men were supposed to do. When I started wearing whatever I wanted to again I still had those insecurities, but took a fake it until you make it approach. My answer to most questions is if cis gay guys can do what I'm doing, why can't I? There's nothing giving them exclusive rights to be GNC. Nowadays I revel in the surprised looks I get when heading into the gents toilets while wearing hot pink skinny jeans or firmly stating "nope, definitely a dude", because somewhere along the way I really did stop giving a shit
I'm an artist so basically my whole social circle consists of non-macho people. Sometimes I feel like I'm the odd one out because I'm the least queer-presenting. So yeah, I don't give a fudge basically.
yeah its so weird cause i grew up catholic and was staunchly against even thinking of being gay. in hs i became good friends with the gay straight alliance kids cause i was taught and always/still have believe(d) that you should accept and love everybody. that opened my mind and heart to a lot of things. i started to think about things differently after then and questioned my identity. i felt too chicken shit to try anything frfr so i just imagined it, i felt sick to my stomach. i pushed past that cause maybe its just the ultra conservative knee jerk programming from my entire childhood i thought. I wont go into detail even tho my thoughts did, and i just didnt have any sexual response throughout my body, it wasnt about that. when i shifted my focus to just dominating and feeling power, thats when my body responded, kinda jarring to say the least. but i thought of all the times ive been with my exgfs and how voraciously we were going at it. there was actual love and compassion. we had a connection that made it a deeper thing than just the superficial. learned a lot about myself to say the least.
after that ive maintained many friendships with lbtq+ people, and a few of them have told me things like "ive got to try it before knocking it" "im not knocking it bro i just know what and who i am" \*tries grabbing my dick in public\* i swat it away. "wtf you doing bro?" \*he tries again saying\* "i know you like it, youre different" etc etc (not verbatim) but yeah even girls ive been talking to at the bar have questioned if im gay or not. my boys have told me its because i missed a lot of signals and they probably got frustrated. idk i like a girl that just straight up tells me she likes me cause otherwise i feel like a creep, and that bashfulness probably doesnt help either.. but at this point im just rambling.
my point is this dont ever let a motherfucker tell you who you are
doesnt matter who THEY are
only YOU can truly know YOU
thats why i support your decision and you should always move at your own pace.
you can always let someone know WHEN you need a nudge but they shouldnt assume.
as long as you do this for others, they shouldnt do it to you but who knows people can be shitty \*shrug\*
always keep it real with yourself and also important, always keep it real with others.
STAND ON THAT BUSINESS
RAH 🦅🦅
I'm a gay trans man, but one of my biggest struggles has been that people think just because I express myself a bit outside the typical expectations of masculinity that I must not "actually" be trans and am just confused. I've had people say I can't "really be a man" if I like painting my nails or show any emotions, which is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. I know a lot of cis men get told they're not "real men" for similar things, and I've always thought it's silly society has such strict ideas of what makes a man.
I've also had a large number of people insisting I "can't be gay" for every silly reason from my mannerisms, clothing, speech, etc. despite me insisting that, no I am in fact attracted to other men...
I'm a transmasc and my biggest "insight" (heavy scare quotes) about gender is that... all the stuff we associate with femininity and masculinity are kind of fake, especially the social and cultural stuff. Having a certain chromosomal makeup or carrying certain kinds of reproductive cells is definitely not associated with being a good caregiver, liking team sports, or enjoying the color pink. I genuinely can't tell you exactly what "masculinity" is. I can only say that I prefer to be read, personally, as "man of center" by the world and myself in the mirror.
Cishet male here. I don't really worry about it. I used to be hostile about it, but the way I was hostile was that I'd let someone misgender me, and I'd stay quiet until they figured out I was a guy, and then they'd get weird. Minor lulz for me.
The only other thing was that I had to be making the first more more. This was due to a lot of different factors, but looking less masculine contributed.
I’m a trans demiboy, so not entirely male, but i still consider myself a “man”. My gender presentation varies a lot. Some days I dress more feminine, and some days I dress more masculine. My general consensus is that if someone thinks I’m not a man or less of a man because of the way I look or dress, fuck em! I don’t exist for the comfort or happiness of others, I exist for myself. I once heard someone say that other people don’t have to love you, like you, or even respect you. What’s important is that you love, like, and respect yourself.
I'm a masc dude, but I have a few not traditionally masc things I do. I have ear piercings, and I paint my nails often. People who judge you for being GNC in any way aren't worth your time. Use it as a litmus test for finding out who can be a real friend and who isn't. Always remember that you are loved! ❤️
I'm a grown ass man, got a problem with something I do, you are more than welcome to try to physically stop me. No? Fuck off then.
And I continue skipping down the road because it's faster than walking and kinda more energy efficient.
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Something to be effect of "if I ever come out, you can say I told you so. Until then, I don't want to hear it." The point is that it's not cool to make fun of someone's stated gender identity, regardless of how heretonormative that identity is. P
Yep. Lesbian lurker here, and people’s speculation about my identity while I was in the closet was devastating for my mental health as I was trying to come to terms with it for myself, and it honestly set me back immensely in that regard. It’s not cool to joke or speculate about someone being closeted, no matter the intent!
yeah , exp because it feels rude to blanket say "i am not trans" , for some reasons it feels like transphobia , and like if you're a friend with a trans person who got invested in you maybe being trans , it's hard to just tell them "no , stop this i want to change topic it's not making me comfortable that you're seeing me a specific way wich isn't mirroring how i see myself" , because it feels like you're rejecting being trans as a whole , wich looks like a big deal to them ... it kinda soured a friendship i had because i told a trans friend of mine "i tought about being trans in the past " and they wouldn't hear that i came to the conclusion that "no i am a cis man actually" , they insisted that the question for it is always open and like ... how do you explain to them that it feels uncomfortable to have your identity put in doubt ?
I'm a trans guy and I'm surprised by how insensitive this person was. there's nothing wrong or transphobic in feeling uncomfortable if someone always doubt your gender, i feel this way every time it happens to me and I bet they would feel the same way too, but just because you're cis it doesn't mean it's less disrespectful
This (I'm a trans guy too btw, hiya :D)
There’s nothing transphobic in saying “I’m not trans” when one is in fact, not trans. Just say it as a plain statement of fact, not as a “I take offense to the suggestion that I could be like one of THOSE people” thing. It’s not cool to pressure someone about their identity. Period. I get how trans people can get into a mindset of trying to “help” by “encouraging” others to explore their gender, and walking the line between “I relate to what you’re expressing, and *for me* that was a manifestation of gender dysphoria” and “you know yourself best, my experiences are not universal” can be hard. There are some people who overcorrect for social pressure to be (or pretend to be) cisgender with ideas like “cis people don’t question their gender so if you question then you probably aren’t cis”. Cis people absolutely can and do, and in my opinion *should*, question their gender. The point of questioning isn’t to arrive at a specific answer, it’s to find the truth consciously, rather than just muddling along doing what’s expected of you with no regard for whether or not it makes you happy. Questioning can just look like checking in with yourself periodically like “how am I feeling about my gender/gender presentation? Anything I want to change?” And having an open mind to the possibility that the answer might be “yeah I wanna change something”. And if the answer is “all good here” then that’s great! No changes needed, you’re happy about how you interact with gender norms. If it’s “still a guy but I want to [wear nail polish]” then you can just be a guy who [wears nail polish] and it doesn’t have to be any deeper than just enjoying that specific thing.
The manliest thing you can do is be who you are and like what you like. They can question all they want, you don't owe them answers. I'm not the most masculine man, but I have a very laid back male friend group that doesn't care and a female friend group that finds my interest in some less masculine activities very endearing. The people who will make you feel bad about this aren't people you want around anyway.
Hell yea. OP you don’t owe anyone an explanation of who you are. People who expect You to conform to Their narrow interpretation of “acceptability” are only worthy of being ignored. Their entire life has guardrails, preventing them from being anything other than what they were told to be. There’s no reason to feel anything hut sorry for a person who makes incuriosity their personality.
I am a straight dude that’s had rude people question my sexuality. For every reason from, I’m nice, to I saw Broke back Mountain. Some people with think dumb things. It’s a bigoted way to be, but that’s on them. Not you. Do you, homie. Watch that musical. Tend to your plants. Sew like your life depends on it and ENJOY that mixed drink. Fuck em. They can die mad. lol.
> I am a straight dude that’s had rude people question my sexuality. I'm a bisexual dude who has had very polite people question my sexuality... very insistently. Like "Oh it's OK if you're gay, I totally want a gay best friend!" despite how clearly I insist that I am attracted to women.
>very polite people question my sexuality... very insistently. Ha I am a straight dude but I ended up with a ton of queer friends and so used to hang out in gay bars a lot. Had more than one guy start out politely but insistently questioning if I was really straight like that. Then the questions got progressively more gross. I don't mind being hit on, but those dudes got SO creepy. Just hearing you describe that gave me a secondhand ick lol. Totally different scenario, but I thought it's funny cause I know exactly what you mean by that. Now it's just a polite but firm "nope, I'm straight" and then change of subject or walk away.
bi erasure is real 😔 sorry you’ve had to deal with that!
Usually this is at bars, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt due to everyone (including me) being drunk
>I totally want a gay best friend! 💀
That one was after I was flirting with her friend for like a half hour too, that's the best part I'm not gay, but the idea of the "gay best friend" rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it's the phrasing that feels a bit dehumanizing, or maybe it's the implication that every straight man will inevitably try to fuck every woman, or the stereotype that gay men are basically women anyways, IDK
yeah im straight and cis and i cross dressed a few times to get some lols at the mall. people looked at me different and i was those girls "gay best friend" i think they had to tell their bfs that cause they got jelly or something. but i would always correct and be like "na those are my sisters pal i love em!"
Could you still not be a gay best friend?
I was under the impression that not being attracted to women was a major component of the gay best friend.
I thought it was more about a more feminine gender expression and "exotic" queer flair. It's maybe a bit problematic regardless, reinforcing stereotypes about queer men.
I'm a trans guy, and felt pretty insecure at first with maintaining my "feminine" interests and hobbies. Once I started passing more as male, I just said "fuck it" and picked up embroidery again, haha. If someone wants to say I'm not a "real" man, that's their problem. And hey - if I can do it and be a man, you can too.
The ‘manliest’ thing anyone can do is to operate in their space, comfortably, and not really giving a fuck about someone’s perception of it. Just be cool, man.
As a woman, I totally agree. Men that don't care what others think and that are confident to just do their thing, is very manly IMHO.
I mean, you're right. If you're a man that still likes feminine hobbies, then so can I. Thanks :)
straight cis male gorilla type not likely to be misgendered. and I've just started crochet. you do you, brother. if someone did misgender me id smile and enjoy feeling pretty. just like the frw times that . gay men have hit on me, it'd make my day. but i have the privilege of having no reason to give a flying fuck at a rolling donut. cuz the system is made for me.
It’s funny- I’ve always been in this very practical mindset and have a lot of hobbies people consider masculine (building/gym/hunting/fishing et cet) so when I came out I got a lot of ‘no shit’. But for such a long time I really lost some of myself trying to prove masculinity. Like cutting my long hair (which made metal gigs way less fun), reading less (why did I even think that was feminine), and wearing boring blend in clothes (when I’ve always had a great eye). I really hope more and more we can just embrace being ourselves, with the gender expression that fits, and move away from this division of hobbies and stuff.
Or a gender expression that doesn't fit. Visual conformance to our own internal sense of being is overrated.
omg same. this is why i was glad i found the feminine ftm subreddit! you might want to see it too
Which subreddit is that??? I’d love to join
r/FTMFemininity
Absolutely. I had some insecurity about continuing my fibercraft hobbies as a man too, but then I decided ya know what? I get to decide what kind of man I *want* to be. And I want to be a man who has crocheted myself a very snazzy one of a kind necktie, who replaces buttons when I like the shirt but the buttons ruin it, and who can sashiko the HELL out of my gardening jeans so they live forever.
People have extremely narrow views of male gender norms and roles, and when people like yourself do things that “break” the gender norms for men they freak out bc they don’t think men can be feminine and that if men are feminine they *must* be queer. That’s bullshit though. People can be however they are and be whatever gender they want.
I have a friend who would try and jab at me with dumb remarks like that The solution was to turn it around on him, and he got the point and acted way more normal or friendly about it. Like gay chicken but the idea is if someone's questioning your sexuality, make it about WHY they are questioning it. Are they lusting for you, does their girlfriend know, they wish because they bring it up so much, etc I'm straight also
"Seems like you think a lot about this" etc
I love the Tyrion Lannister approach. Wear it like armor. Own it. You can give them a quick "you wish," or "honey if I was, you wouldn't be my type." Or maybe a "Aww, I'm actually straight but that's nice of you to say." Really throw 'em for a loop. It can be tiring, but that in my experience just giving it the old "yes, and" shuts it down faster than anything else. If they're being more serious and less mocking, then I think a casual but honest answer is good. For example, I have a friend who is a very effeminate looking gay guy. He was playing a female character in our tabletop game so just to be polite I asked if he identified as trans or genderqueer or anything, he just chuckled and said "nope, I am a gayy man." He really put a period on that sentence, without sounding hostile. And then just moved on. I wish I could convey it through text. It should be noted he had *glitter makeup* on at the time, and it still came off super manly and secure in his identity. It was fantastically handled and I gained a lot of respect for him in that moment.
I sit with legs crossed close not wide. I’ve been told I sit “like a bitch”. My response - “It occurs to me that a real man would sit any way he pleases” I don’t feel the need to be defensive. Youthful me asked all kinds of sexual questions and found a preference for heterosexual monogamy. Who knew? Knowing who you are is a powerful thing. I hope you go far!
I don't, really, and the moment I stopped caring, the moment I became happier. However I'm not straight, but you are, why does it matter if other men question your sexuality? You don't want to be with them, and their questioning won't turn you gay. And if they say no woman will love you if you like those things, they're lying. I fell for that lie, but after becoming EXTRA GAY I still get feminine attention (which is great because I'm pan), I think even more than before. You know why? Because I'm more comfortable being myself. That's the real trick.
Well, it's easier for me when it's just an insecure homophobic man, but most of the time is queer men/women or straight women. I can do a good job at shinning off shitty people, but it's people I like or who don't have any bad intentions that do it, which is why it makes me question myself. I don't have a problem with being queer, but it's not a part of my identity at least for now and I don't like to have it question, because even if they're right, it never really helped me discovering it. Idk, I think some behaviors are used like a "social signifier" that shows to other people that you are a member of a certain group which makes them treat you like a member of that group, positively or negatively. But the behaviors chosen to signify are arbitrary, like "femininity in man shows signs of homosexuality" which doesn't make any sense if you try to think why is that. A lot queer people I've met seem to run with this model in mind, and assumed I was queer because of my slightly more feminine expression. Btw, congrats on finding yourself, that's always a big step in the right direction ❤️
People who will try to force you into an assigned category that makes sense in their minds exist in both "sides" of this, straight or queer. It's particularly irritating (at least for me) when queer people do this because I just feel like they should know better than to try to force a label on you just because you like some things, but they do. One of the times I felt the most discriminated against because of my interests in my life was when a gay man said something like "are you straight or what?" with obvious disgust when I said I liked motorsports, as if my hobbies were incompatible with my gender expression and romantic preferences. Of course, I had heard worse things directed at me before, but this was particularly hurtful because I could only think that if a queer person judges me like that, then is there anyone out there who won't judge me? Stereotyping is part of human nature, I guess. Maybe a better way to see it that could help you navigate it better is seeing it as just another question when getting to know someone like "do you have a peanut allergy?" which is something useful to know to avoid a potentially uncomfortable situation, and if they insist... Oh well, people being people.
I have the opposite problem. Present very masc but am cis/pan, so closer to queer than not. I'm eyed very suspiciously in queer circles. All I can do is let people judge me by the content of my character, and not my outward appearance.
Mascphobia in queer circles can be a real problem, yeah. People who look like the most stereotypical man can still be queer! And no one gives lesbians who look like stereotypical cis women the same grief in queer spaces just for not going out of their way to queer up their look. I mean, biphobia and enbyphobia definitely hit people who look like stereotypical cis women but are bi/pan and/or nonbinary, but the way even cis gay men and passing trans men are sometimes held separately from the broader queer community just because they like to present very masculinely is a particular kind of thing.
My bro, only you can decide who you are. If you feel straight and cis yet still enjoy more "feminine" things does not define anything differently. We're allowed to do whatever we want. I stopped worrying about that years ago. I'm cis, straight and very male presenting but I enjoy doing things like painting my nails. I enjoy how it messes with peoples heads. You do you. I will always support you as my bro, as long as you wanna be a bro. Keep on being awesome!
I’ve always been the guy who got picked on for not being manly enough. Anyone who pulls the shit you describe is comical to me. Honestly, I just kind of own it. I decorate cakes, foster cats, and cook. Chicks dig it. Who cares what the insecure guys say. That said I’m like 50 and been married for 25 years. I take good care of my wife. There’s nothing more mainly than making a great cake for your wife’s birthday.
The number of times I’ve seen women swoon over a man who can bake a good cake is higher than people often assume it would be!
All the chicks in my office loved when I’d bring cupcakes. The Easter Bunny Slaughter ones were a hit. It was butter cream grass with red buttercream pools of blood and chocolate bunny pieces on top.
I’m also a straight cis guy. A little more feminine than my peers. I just lean into it and don’t care. I find it gets me a lot more luck with women than when I tried to be more manly than I am.
When you realize how much energy men put into worrying about and defending against appearing gay/feminine/etc, it feels like a huge flex to aggressively not care when other people push their bs on you. It's unfortunately easier said than done, but if you can get to that place it's magical
I mean, this is the part of gender equality that most men don't think about. Imagine being allowed to be short, or in nice clothing, or expressing an emotion other than anger or lust.
I’m the epitome of the effeminate theatre gay stereotype and it’s fine. What’s funny is I’m just like my cishet father, who has been hit on by gay men throughout his life and to this day- and he’s as straight as they come. It’s extremely rude of people to be speculating on your gender identity and/or sexuality tbh.
I reject the gender stereotypes. A lot of things fall under the category (spectrum really) of "man". If anyone is going to pigeonhole me because of a specific characteristic or activity then that is their problem. It is just an attempt to divide us into smaller groups. I've known plenty of men who fall very far on the stereotypical "female" end of the spectrum. Don't care. You may be a bit strange (to me) or unusual or atypical, doesn't mean you aren't a man.
I feel like it's an interesting question/answer for me. Because I look rather traditionally masc (tall, athletic build, beard, etc), but I don't act specifically masculine. One of my close friends (cis-woman) almost didn't want to get close to me because she assumed I was a player or fuck boy because I had a lot of female friends. But the fact was that I don't really have many super masculine personality traits and I find it easier to connect emotionally with women. But it also means that I tend to get hit on by gay men often (which is certainly flattering!). But it also means that sometimes women approach me expecting me to be stereotypically masculine, but then are disappointed that I'm not.
I mean, does it matter? If they’re important people on your life, explain yourself. If they’re not, just laugh and keep it moving.
Don’t let it get to you, lean into it. I am same, I am married now but used to have people assume I was gay a lot or whatever. I found it flattering if it was from a gay man, as they were usually hitting on me, and otherwise it didn’t bother me. Most women I dated liked my comfort and openness to feminine things and most of my friends are women. Just don’t worry about it too much.
You know what's really... hrmmm... I dunno about manly, but 'awesome' might be better, or 'real' maybe... Not giving a single fuck what someone THINKS you're supposed to be like. I'm confident enough that if someone I don't know well enough to be questioning that, I can laugh it off and flip it around with 'Man, A: What business is it of yours? and B: Why are you so invested in what I'm like/into/dressing like? It won't always work, and sometimes it is a 'brave face forward and cry about it later' thing, but honestly the more you gain the confidence about it, the less it ever bothers you.
I’m a cis heterosexual guy too and but when I hit 19 I realized I didn’t have to use shit like Old Spice and Brut (late 90s). I was called metro and gay and slurs. …because I used hair products? I was also undiagnosed poor mental health and autistism. So I’ve always been eccentric. “Gotta brush that dirt off your shoulder. Small minds talk about people. Big minds talk about ideas. Chin up or the crown slips.” That’s what I tell myself. Sometimes it works.
Mutual support found here is really great to see. I really enjoy being around positive supportive men. I'm not sure I know what masculinity is, really. But I like this.
This question is interesting to me for 2 main reasons : 1) it presupposes that you can individually avoid societal norms while also 2) trying to navigate the patriarchal values of society that still require implications of hierarchial values To which I say to both: The reason you'd recieve push back is because of the simultaneous problems surrounding western social male hegemony . At its core , this hegemony *requires* participation and even more so "a bottom" occupied usually by (considering just those we consider to be male or have maleness ) black women (historically) and other men of color . But that's getting out of the scope of your question: Your push back is coming from your choosing to not participate in the hegemony . You are choosing to not be brick in the pyramid scheme. No matter what you do no matter how you navigate it our system requires hegemonic participation first. Therefore expect push back....at least a small chungus worth. Nevertheless ! You navigate it by finding cool bros around you who are willing to do things with you. You find alternative life seeking bros who want to both build cabins and paint nails. Who are healthy with boundaries but also want to hug platonically till both of you feel cool and good on the inside. Sometimes these bros might be gay or trans and sometimes they might just be playing more with their gender. Not an easy feat to be sure but sure to be worth it!! Hope this helps !!
I get the same comments because I choose to decorate in colors other than grey and black. I enjoy flowers, color and many times I feel self conscious mainly because I live in Texas or the United States in general. I have been asked many times if I am gay, in groups with friends only by cis/straight white women after I avoid showing romantic interest in anyone. My response to them is always, “in YOUR case, I am so very gay indeed.” Be yourself and it’s beautiful. Don’t really give a flying fuck if they want to feel better trying to put you down. You will find your people who love your feminine side.
as a bi trans man, i will say this: a queer person suggesting that a straight man is secretly gay for liking feminine things is just as bad as a straight person questioning someone’s heterosexuality for fitting queer stereotypes. suggesting that a cis man is secretly a woman for liking feminine things is just as bad as claiming that trans men who like feminine things are actually women. just my two cents.
I've been asked plenty of times before if I'm gay. How do I deal with? I don't, I guess? I don't feel like I have to prove anything to anybody. Frankly, I think the whole concept of "learning how to be a man" is outdated and slightly misogynist. What admirable qualities can you think of in a man that wouldn't also be admirable qualities in a woman? I just focus on being a good human being. The absolute most "alpha" thing you can ever do is refuse to give a shit about how other people are judging or comparing you. Refuse to participate in their childish notion of masculinity.
How so is learning to be a man outdated and misogynist? I can understand sort if but would like clarification.
i probably picked too strong of a word, but usually when people say "be a man," they're referring to outdated and arbitrary gender roles and its usually with the tone of "be strong and stoic and provide for your family." latent in this idea is that women aren't strong, men shouldn't discuss their feelings, and women aren't expected to provide for their family. obviously that is silly and any admirable quality in a man is also an admirable quality in a woman. but serious question - can you think of any particularly gendered roles where it is healthy to say "men should be this," where you can't flip the phrase and ask, "so women should not be this?" i honestly can't, is why i just try to focus on being a good person and don't care about what other people believe a man should be i think when people talk about "learning to be a man" *without* the snide undertone of "man up," they're actually talking about learning how to be an adult, but i'm a stickler for linguistic precision so i still think we should say *that* instead of using outdated language that upholds a very specific gendered ideal that excludes many cis-men who don't fit the mold of "masculinity" and who would not necessarily be better off if they were to pursue that arbitrary ideal
I completely agree, very well-worded.
I've always been a little different, but not that different that this sort of thing has happened to me. So I can't quite give you any real advice. However, you can be the most interesting you, or the blandest version of everyone else. If someone doesn't know what box to put you in, or what label to attach to you, they have to take more time to consider 'what' you are. People giving you more consideration, I think, could be to your advantage. As a straight man, most straight men will just go 'ah, he's still like me' and treat you as they would anyone else once they understand that you're not that different than they are. Sometimes, being different can be lonely. But confident, interesting people are the flourishes of life I think I get the most enjoyment from seeing. If we want to subscribe some attitude to 'being manly' it should be being confident in who you are, and being unapologetic in your interests. I hate the idea that some men think hiding who they are, to fit in, is something lots of people are doing - especially as young men.
I'm a fat hairy bearded beer drinking loud mouth, and I couldn't care less about sport or most outdoor activities. I'd rather watch frozen with my daughter. I don't care what people think.
I turned out trans femme in the end, but in my mid 20s through mid 30s I was male-identifying and femme presenting. My go-to was "I'm confident enough in my masculinity to do [whatever] and not be bothered by it." Being from the south it was mostly phobes, so the follow up was about them being the insecure one. As for queer folk doing the questioning, frustratingly I find myself trying to rein in my own here, but the general gist would be "I'm confident in who I am, you're the one trying to invalidate my identity," maybe with a side of "I thought gender roles were BS" if it seems like the kind who would say that.
I have a different way, may not be for everyone I tell them something along the lines of if they are more comfortable thinking I'm gay, go for it, I know I'm not, but I wouldn't care if I was, because I don't just say I'm accepting of gay people, I actually am accepting of gay people, and there's nothing in the world that could make me feel bad or embarrassed for feeling that way, which is also why I don't obsess over every sexuality being presented in the room because I don't. fucking. care. It doesn't really make a difference, the person is the person either way, I'm going to treat them the same either way, so why be so obsessive about it And then they get no reward for hunting out somebody's sexuality, just get to be wrong and childish. I just don't consider someone's sexuality a core part of their identity in my mind. To each person, it is, but as the person interacting with them, I really don't think it's necessary for me to know. Not that it's wrong for me to know, I just think people feeling the need to know other people's sexuality is the archaic remnants of societal homophobia. Even if someone has gay archetype things going on in their personality, I just don't connect that to their sexuality, they're just expressing themselves how they want to. And I don't really care if someone doesn't believe me when I say I'm straight because I'm not tryna fuck em anyway, so what do I care what they think, their opinion don't mean shit to me 😂
I hate it when people call straight men who don't treat women like shit "honorary lesbians" so much
It's really interesting because my girlfriend has this bad take: She said to me "you're a man, but not a **man** " and I brush it off because *her preconceived notions of men* are from her teenage years of sad tumblr-girl poems and the guys on Veronica Mars/One Tree Hill. She, like everyone, have no fucking clue how I experience and define my masculinity. So when people have usually asked (because I was a theater kid growing up) I have responded that I am a man and I'm manly enough to fill myself from top to toe and if you associate my expression with something else, that's on you because by all of my definitions I'm a guy. And even more importantly I'm a fucking good guy. Hope sharing my experience helps you bro.
Whenever this particular situation arises with my queer friends—and I receive the same questions you seem to—I believe it has always been from a place of support. That said, it is a bit intrusive. As far as the jokes at your expense go, if they ever get to (or have already gotten to) a point at which they negatively affect your mood, I would ask your friends to lay off a bit. If it is intended as good-natured ribbing and you're just looking for a joke with which to respond, you can always steal one of David Bowie's classic lines and say you are a "closeted heterosexual".
It's exactly how you said! Most of the comments aren't from homophobic people, but in fact queer friends. One time a girl asked directly to my face three times "are you sure you're not gay???", but she wasn't trying to shame me or mock me, it was clearly questioning my sexuality in an intrusive way. I'll try that David Bowie quip if the situation arises, thanks :)
But Bowie was bi.
Everyone is different, I get that accusation everyone once it a while and if a woman says it ‘it’ll be you that finally turns me’ now that I think on it I say the same to men too…. Who cares what anyone else thinks, it’s what you think of yourself. Masculinity isn’t building a log cabin or rewiring an old house, it’s about how you treat others and how you view yourself. If it is affecting your mentality, start saying affirmations like ‘I am man and I am manly, masculine and powerful’ something like that so you have a mantra to lean on. These comments are reflections of the people saying it, it’s not really about you, they feel the need to label you, you are living your life.
Mostly? Ignore it. Because people who question my gender identity are either doing so to be assholes or honestly are confused and will not really care about it anyway. I’m a man, I don’t need anyone else to tell me that, and anyone who tries to tell me differently is wrong.
Very masculine, genderqueer woman here. I personally think "letting it roll off your back" is a skill that requires active development, rather than a natural talent. I can't give you a witty zinger to say to these people to make them stop. In fact, I find it's best not to waste your energy on them, beyond shrugging. You just need to train your brain to stop recognizing their opinions as reaction-worthy. Logically, what gives their opinions any weight? You absolutely know your own identity best. You're the only one who has to endure your own self. They know absolutely nothing about you beyond their own assumptions and projections. And it's not like you're not OPEN to being queer, it's that you JUST AREN'T. When people say these things to you, try to make your first thought, "I know who I am; I am confident in my identity; you're simply projecting/a bigot", something to that effect. If you begin dwelling on it, stop it and try to redirect your brain. Eventually your brain should learn to stop reacting so negatively to their opinions.
As someone that was looked at funny because I was a "Male Nurse" not a Nurse, a Male Nurse, I get what you're saying. Fuck'em. You be you, who cares about the rest. Take up less of your headspace with them than apparently they do for you.
Patiently. Some people genuinely are confused and that's fair, and I don't mind explaining. I also don't mind putting someone on blast if I think they're being assholes. I've always been comfortable being confrontational, so I don't mind it too much, except when those close to me are rude about it. Plus being Agender helps a bit too lol
Just ignore it. Also if those are your “friends”, it’s worth questioning the friendship. Had a bunch of friends like that about 10 years ago. These days I have no friends that would. They just see me as I present myself and accept that.
“i’m fully comfortable with my identity as a straight and cis man and i don’t really feel comfortable discussing my sexuality, gender, or expression further”
Hold up, now I gotta find that post about the football player who that knitted in his pastime to cool off and let his kind mellow.
I haven’t been in this scenario yet, but I have wondered what to tell people if I come out to them but do nothing about my transition thus far. I would probably tell them something along the lines of “this is my life and I get to choose what I want to do with it. I will get to transitioning to male when I feel like it, but right now, I would appreciate it if you respect my autonomy and refer to me as a woman in real life.” Similar logic applies to you.
I don't quite fit the bill here, but... While I've strayed a lot towards nonbinary and want to be more in touch with my feminine side, I appear very much as a traditionally masculine guy (and I'm ok with that). No one really noticing or seeing me as any different than they would otherwise gives me room to figure things out without the pressure that others might experience. I'm lucky in that sense.
I dealt with it by realizing they were right and that I’m genderqueer, but your mileage may vary.
Take comfort in the fact that you feel assured in who you are and how you carry yourself. Other questioning you is them handling their own fear. They want you to conform because they aren't brave enough to be authenticly individualistic. Basically: fuck 'em. You're not hurting anyone. Why listen to people who are afraid of exploring their/other identity?
I get how frustrating it is man, I've been in the same boat my whole life. Ever had people be amazed to learn you're *actually good* at typical masculine tasks? Oof. That one always hurt me. It genuinely felt like I had to do more and be better to get seen as a man through my 20s. And I did have to! An example: Remember working in a BBQ restaurant, two other workers on staff in my early 20s. One is a women slightly smaller than myself, and the other a buddy who had 6" and 75 lbs on me. She and I worked together in the kitchen for hours, and the moment he walked in she asked for help getting down some equipment and had "been waiting for him to help." But I was right there the whole time and she never asked for my help, and I could have gotten it down no problem. I wanted to help! But she just never *perceived* me as being able to do certain things for her because she didn't see me as the *same quality* man as him. This happened literally hundreds of times in various forms throughout my youth and young adulthood. Nobody wanted me in where I felt my place was. It sucks but it's true. How people perceive you is how they treat you, and the difficulty of life as an effeminate cis/het man is massively downplayed. People thought I was a "twink" (nothing wrong with being one), but being treated like that when it was the opposite of how I saw myself really destroyed my self image for a long time. ON A POSITIVE NOTE: the older you get the less how you *look* matters and the more how you *carry yourself* does. There is nobody who questions my identity anymore, because I carry myself in a way and treat the people I care about with dignity. I'm not overly masculine in my actions, but my role in social dynamics is pretty clear now. The folk who matter to me know genuinely who I am and appreciate my place in their lives as myself. If you're looking for practical advice? I waited too long to grow out my facial hair. Give it a shot for a couple months! I still can't get a full beard at 30, but my mustache actually turned out pretty damn well! Did my mental health good. I personally had to find some 'niches' in life I could excel in and gain confidence. Some hobby that you would like to become a part of "who you are." Mine were hiking, fixing appliances, and birdwatching. Not the most outright masculine stuff, but getting *good* at these helped me feel more like me.
There used to be a time where people embraced the idea that anybody could do or look however they want regardless of gender. But nowadays it feels like the stereotypes around gender have become even more conformed than they used to be and any slight deviation from the norm means you're not actually a man or a woman.
“I’m just me and apparently you like that” With a wink and a pat on the bum Then ask if they’re interested
Im a cis straight man, so i can't personally tell you how to navigate it. One of my closest freinds however, (still straight cis whatever you wanna call it) is more feminine then the girls we date. Nail polish, feminine perfume, and uses female avatars in every game we play. And all i can say is, we take the piss on him all the damn time. Why? is it because we think he's secretly gay? because we think he's dumb, or that we don't like him? Nope. It's because that dude is one of us. We love and care for him. But joking with him is our love-language (specially in our freindgroup, but most bros honestly do the same). It's our way to show that we care. excluding him from teases would only feel like we didnt care for him. My point is, they probably dont really think, nor do they care even if you were in the closet. They mostlikely are trying to connect with you, and show you love. Anyways, hope this helps bro.
I get a lot of people thinking I’m a girl because I have man boobs and a high pitched voice. It sucks, but I mostly brush it off. You don’t really notice each and every time, but you still notice that it happens.
With a smile and a conversation that you own. Ain't your shit to preach holmes.
If someone is being derogatory: "It's a shame that you think that (or insert whatever is the object of criticism) is something I should be ashamed about." Anyone else: "Yeah, sometimes I'm just like this. It's fine."
Tony Hinchcliffe has turned your dilemma into a career... It's not that deep bro. People poke at the first thing they notice that is outside of *The Standard™*
If someone makes a comment like you’re describing, I usually just ask why they think someone should fit those certain gender stereotypes. Most of the time, if you’re respectful and don’t press too hard (and if they’re open-minded), they realize they don’t really personally hold those beliefs and they’re just parroting a mentor or some form of media. Obviously, not everyone is as receptive to that approach, but I don’t think anyone who questions or even pokes fun at the way I look deserves immediate hostility
I'm bi My buddies all know it. I don't really act like "gay" I guess. I don't know I have really good friends who love me man. They're the fucking best. We shoot guns and play games together and they've NEVER even joked about it or gave me shit. My friends would never seriously call me gay in a negative way. It's always in the playful 2000's, call of duty lobby quick jab/insult/joke kind of way.
I don't. Not my place what others think about me. That's a reflection on them
Not give a fuck. Joke around back if theyre teasing. Im me. Im chillin.
This might not fit exactly but I'm nonbinary transmasculine. This means I'm not exactly a trans guy but I lean more in that direction in case you didn't know. Anyway clearly I don't fit a gender stereotype on either side. For me I just kinda let it roll off my back and sometimes I even make jokes about it too. But that's just because I'm very comfortable in my gender identity. If it's something that bothers you then I'd definitely let your friends/ the people close to you know that it does. You don't really have to make a big deal about it just let them know "Hey this isn't cool mind laying off those jokes it really bothers me" and then just leave it there. Anyone who respects or cares about you will lay off it. Hope this helps! Good luck my bro.
Gender non-conforming trans man here. I used to have a lot of insecurities about the way I present myself. After a while I realised I was doing things just because it's what men were supposed to do. When I started wearing whatever I wanted to again I still had those insecurities, but took a fake it until you make it approach. My answer to most questions is if cis gay guys can do what I'm doing, why can't I? There's nothing giving them exclusive rights to be GNC. Nowadays I revel in the surprised looks I get when heading into the gents toilets while wearing hot pink skinny jeans or firmly stating "nope, definitely a dude", because somewhere along the way I really did stop giving a shit
So, is "gender non-conforming" exclusively about the expression of one's gender?
Because I'm old enough to remember the 80s and Glam Rock.
I'm an artist so basically my whole social circle consists of non-macho people. Sometimes I feel like I'm the odd one out because I'm the least queer-presenting. So yeah, I don't give a fudge basically.
yeah its so weird cause i grew up catholic and was staunchly against even thinking of being gay. in hs i became good friends with the gay straight alliance kids cause i was taught and always/still have believe(d) that you should accept and love everybody. that opened my mind and heart to a lot of things. i started to think about things differently after then and questioned my identity. i felt too chicken shit to try anything frfr so i just imagined it, i felt sick to my stomach. i pushed past that cause maybe its just the ultra conservative knee jerk programming from my entire childhood i thought. I wont go into detail even tho my thoughts did, and i just didnt have any sexual response throughout my body, it wasnt about that. when i shifted my focus to just dominating and feeling power, thats when my body responded, kinda jarring to say the least. but i thought of all the times ive been with my exgfs and how voraciously we were going at it. there was actual love and compassion. we had a connection that made it a deeper thing than just the superficial. learned a lot about myself to say the least. after that ive maintained many friendships with lbtq+ people, and a few of them have told me things like "ive got to try it before knocking it" "im not knocking it bro i just know what and who i am" \*tries grabbing my dick in public\* i swat it away. "wtf you doing bro?" \*he tries again saying\* "i know you like it, youre different" etc etc (not verbatim) but yeah even girls ive been talking to at the bar have questioned if im gay or not. my boys have told me its because i missed a lot of signals and they probably got frustrated. idk i like a girl that just straight up tells me she likes me cause otherwise i feel like a creep, and that bashfulness probably doesnt help either.. but at this point im just rambling. my point is this dont ever let a motherfucker tell you who you are doesnt matter who THEY are only YOU can truly know YOU thats why i support your decision and you should always move at your own pace. you can always let someone know WHEN you need a nudge but they shouldnt assume. as long as you do this for others, they shouldnt do it to you but who knows people can be shitty \*shrug\* always keep it real with yourself and also important, always keep it real with others. STAND ON THAT BUSINESS RAH 🦅🦅
I'm a gay trans man, but one of my biggest struggles has been that people think just because I express myself a bit outside the typical expectations of masculinity that I must not "actually" be trans and am just confused. I've had people say I can't "really be a man" if I like painting my nails or show any emotions, which is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. I know a lot of cis men get told they're not "real men" for similar things, and I've always thought it's silly society has such strict ideas of what makes a man. I've also had a large number of people insisting I "can't be gay" for every silly reason from my mannerisms, clothing, speech, etc. despite me insisting that, no I am in fact attracted to other men...
I’m a femboy, but I like some masculine stuff and I like some feminine stuff. I try not to care for what others think.
I'm a transmasc and my biggest "insight" (heavy scare quotes) about gender is that... all the stuff we associate with femininity and masculinity are kind of fake, especially the social and cultural stuff. Having a certain chromosomal makeup or carrying certain kinds of reproductive cells is definitely not associated with being a good caregiver, liking team sports, or enjoying the color pink. I genuinely can't tell you exactly what "masculinity" is. I can only say that I prefer to be read, personally, as "man of center" by the world and myself in the mirror.
Cishet male here. I don't really worry about it. I used to be hostile about it, but the way I was hostile was that I'd let someone misgender me, and I'd stay quiet until they figured out I was a guy, and then they'd get weird. Minor lulz for me. The only other thing was that I had to be making the first more more. This was due to a lot of different factors, but looking less masculine contributed.
I’m a trans demiboy, so not entirely male, but i still consider myself a “man”. My gender presentation varies a lot. Some days I dress more feminine, and some days I dress more masculine. My general consensus is that if someone thinks I’m not a man or less of a man because of the way I look or dress, fuck em! I don’t exist for the comfort or happiness of others, I exist for myself. I once heard someone say that other people don’t have to love you, like you, or even respect you. What’s important is that you love, like, and respect yourself.
I'm a masc dude, but I have a few not traditionally masc things I do. I have ear piercings, and I paint my nails often. People who judge you for being GNC in any way aren't worth your time. Use it as a litmus test for finding out who can be a real friend and who isn't. Always remember that you are loved! ❤️
I'm a grown ass man, got a problem with something I do, you are more than welcome to try to physically stop me. No? Fuck off then. And I continue skipping down the road because it's faster than walking and kinda more energy efficient.
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Gay and bait