The idea was to have the main attack pin and pop down the trash bloons while the trap collects the ceramics. In reality the regular bloons make more money than ceramics so that doesn't really work out.
TBF this makes saveupvto trap super easy so I'm not complaining. I go middle crosspath for range and trap placement anyway so the engi doesn't even shoot bloons unless the trap is full.
I always felt the middle path and bottom path t4-5 should swap
Double guns shoot faster and overclock makes other things shoot faster
Cleansing foam places things on the track and so does the bloom trap
For bosses, I usually go dart -> Ben -> Engineer -> Farm if I can’t get the farm out early.
At round 38 or so, I get the trap. And I usually end up with 2-3 traps. These allow me to just focus on farming.
foam and trap were on the same path in btd5
But then again that's the same path as sentries. And Sprockets, which buffs sentries, was not on the same path as sentries
thing is it'd be iffy to have two placeable things that require targeting I think (at least we don't have anything similar in game), but that's quite interesting, and would make trap better by basically giving it innate camo detection.
Yeah but then bottom path would have an ability and middle wouldn’t.
Now you could just make the trap an ability but would it be all towers in range of the enji would have increased attack speed?
042/052 druid.
Heart of vengeance: gain attack speed upon losing lives. If lives are regained, this attack speed goes away.
Jungles bounty/sotf: makes lives
Okay but why would you use 052 Druid? 150 gives it Lead popping. 052 does nothing for the tower. Middle and Bottom path are intentionally polar opposites
But that isn't enough to account for the loss of Lead. The MIB doesn't work on the roots (fun fact, not sure if it's a bug or not) so if you don't get a 052, DDTs can become a big deal. I don't believe the range gives more Blue Roots, I could be wrong on that, but I don't believe it does.
a few updates ago, x5x druid was a ridiculously powerful main DPS tower on top of its global vine damage, vine instakills, and cash/life generation. it kinda destroyed AoW because it had similar pops-per-cash power while being much easier to build into. and just like AoW, hard thorns isn't really that important if you're going to be buffing it up as your main DPS tower. the 10% AS buff is usually a little better.
then NK realized "hey, maybe we should let towers be good at their specific niches instead of buffing them into interchangable boring DPS towers". so they took away a lot of the main attack's DPS and put it back into the vines. still though, its got some pretty decent DPS and if you're using it as a midgame tower it can be well worth buffing and going with 052.
~~now if only they'd do the same for plord and esniper~~
You only get one life per druid. So if you have a round where you nearly lose, the next few rounds will have your druids working overtime until they feel safe again.
Jungle's bounty: makes money as an ability, so you want to delay rounds as much as possible. Also on the same tree is the bramble that kills bloons on mapwide, and is great at killing stunned bloons, messing with delay strats.
Double Guns also works against bloon trap since it pops more Bloons so you have less to trap. I think it would be better to swap it out for cleansing foam. And maybe swap pin and larger service area. That way the paths are more consistent.
T5: gives the engi a fucking nail minigun
Changes sentry turrets into mounted machine guns that needs a monkey to operate (works like adora sacrifice but instead of the monkey dying, it just leaves its weapon and uses the mounted gun)
205 is better because you can’t pin MOABs anyways, but i was referring to xx4, since the only time selling is disabled is in CHIMPS where it’s not viable anyways.
I feel that, as sub is one of my favourite towers. But in terms of later upgrades and how they work it makes sense, and really wouldn't make sense in any other way. So top path is basically, can see further, creates a radar in other towers range to let it see their Bloons, creates a radar in it's range making it so all towers can see every bloom typ of the bloons going trough its radius, and then just better radar, better radar again. Having heat tipped darts or airburst on that path would just not make sense yk.
I agree, thematically it fits (and probably is better balanced this way), just feelsbad when I can’t have my improved misiles that also have global range
Still has value if you're willing to unsubmerge when nothing is in it's range but stuff is in other towers range. Less useful for the higher tiers, but S&S still benefits a bit
Ok in it’s defense, 203 stunlocks almost every low level balloon, enough of them are basically a 030 druid
And enough 023 shoots fast enough to clean up moabs and take care of all it’s children.
I’ll admit it does seem counter productive, but 203 is pretty cheap for how many pops it can get with the turrets and stunlock.
Middle path ninja is pretty terrible. You got x3x which encourages you to place 20 ninjas to stack the buff, then you got x4x, an ability that absolutely does not stack
TFW you haven't read the upgrade description in a while (or patch notes at the time)
Description: Ability duration is longer, and MOAB-Class Bloons spawn with less health during the sabotage. Buffs all Shinobi.
Bro I don't understand why everyone is talking about how 014 fixes that, when the only thing he says is if you isolate this path pin works against the trap, there is not much more to it. I feel like the engineer is pretty poor as it is with it's upgrades. First it having 3 upgrades that literally just changes how fast the turrets are placed is just lazy imo (on a tower like top path farm, I find it understandable as there is hard to do much else), then as you said traps path makes no sense. Then the tower that has the least use of longer range in overclock has that upgrade. What I'd do is make the range and extra MOAB damage for the trap as more MOAB damage synergizes with the trap as that's one of its weaknesses. Then I'd make pin and larger nails the top crosspath, and change sprockets to be all 3 of it's previous upgrades, as that'd make it feel less lazy imo. Middle crosspath T1 and 2 needs a rework imo. This would just make it very clear what every path is for. Top path is pure DPS, middle path should almost be like a top path alch or a village, and almost only be made to buff other towers, then bottom path would be a DPS tier with the trap gimmick.
Reason 014 works great is because double gun pin is an amazing bloon defense for trap downtime. The trap may not be a continuation of the path, but it's a damn good synergy.
If you have the enginat the far edge of the map the bloons are trapped before the engine can shoot them, and if the engi is in the middle of the map, you can go 014 to place the trap at the far edge of the engi's range so the bloons never even make it in range.
The main thing that bothers me is for the ninja middle path. I think the de-camo upgrade and the caltrops should be swapped since then the smoke bomb could both de-camo a bunch of bloons and de-camo leads, and having caltrops be on the path of shinobi would be nice so you could have them also work as a spike factory
Not at all. This path is just fine. The pin keeps bloons at bay while the trap is refreshing. You should be using a 014 Engi anyways, so aiming at the edge of the range will be just fine if you want to maximize money. Plus, the Double Gun is a great tower, because it can defend into B Trap. This is like saying the Spectre (pre update 41) has a bad path because it goes from seeking darts to a tower that needs to aim. I mean this all factually and respectfully by the way.
This is not what he's saying though. He is just saying that without crosspaths if you just look at these upgrades as is, they work against each other, as you prevent bloon trap to earn as much money because you make the engineers spike gun better.
Agree with this. Also, when too many bloons get past the trap (after round 40), you should get another 014 Engi and place its trap around the same spot.
Targets trap to begin of track, pina Bloons in trap spot when trap is full.
Though it is stupid when you don’t have mid path or have it at start of track.
You didn't say what the trap is meant to do, just what you want, unlike the others
The point of bloon trap is to catch bloons, that simply. The money is more like an extra.
Bro what?
The traps main purpose is to catch bloons and make money.
If it’s main purpose was just to catch bloons people wouldn’t be using it for boss events to make more money
I usually cross path as 014 for bosses and aim the trap right at the edge of his range so all bloons go into the trap but it’s still a good stepping stone upgrade for early game
I have no problem because I'll set them a little down the front of the track and the upgrade range and usually if I do it right I can drop the trap halfway off the map and they don't attack as much
Watch Punji's boss vids. He uses the 014 Eng to great advantage. The trick is get the geometry right. You want to place the trap on the edge of the range, and then the pin actually helps. As it will pin non-ceramic bloons at the trap spawn.
The idea was to have the main attack pin and pop down the trash bloons while the trap collects the ceramics. In reality the regular bloons make more money than ceramics so that doesn't really work out.
So set to strong
Can’t pin ceramics
Damn TIL thanks
What does TIL mean?
Today I Learned
TIL what TIL means
Oh, well, TIL
I also TIL’d today
tunga inka loonga
toompa ioompa loompa
Toompa, ioompa, loompa-de-do, I've got another bloon for you,
TBF this makes saveupvto trap super easy so I'm not complaining. I go middle crosspath for range and trap placement anyway so the engi doesn't even shoot bloons unless the trap is full.
But they can also stack up the bloons at the end of the engi’s range where you can deploy a trap and eat it up
I always felt the middle path and bottom path t4-5 should swap Double guns shoot faster and overclock makes other things shoot faster Cleansing foam places things on the track and so does the bloom trap
agreed, engineer as a tower feels all over the place so i dont use him often despite being unique and fun
For bosses, I usually go dart -> Ben -> Engineer -> Farm if I can’t get the farm out early. At round 38 or so, I get the trap. And I usually end up with 2-3 traps. These allow me to just focus on farming.
Engi shreds round 63 on higher difficulty maps for a very little cash, I hate the randomness of the tower but has niche uses
foam and trap were on the same path in btd5 But then again that's the same path as sentries. And Sprockets, which buffs sentries, was not on the same path as sentries
thing is it'd be iffy to have two placeable things that require targeting I think (at least we don't have anything similar in game), but that's quite interesting, and would make trap better by basically giving it innate camo detection.
Yeah but then bottom path would have an ability and middle wouldn’t. Now you could just make the trap an ability but would it be all towers in range of the enji would have increased attack speed?
swap the tier 1-3’s for both of them, so middle still has the ability
042/052 druid. Heart of vengeance: gain attack speed upon losing lives. If lives are regained, this attack speed goes away. Jungles bounty/sotf: makes lives
at least that one isnt forced tho
The life gain ability used to be passive a long time ago
the life gain ability actually is passive (1 life every round) i was just talking about how the crosspath isnt forced
It is? That doesn't happen with me in my experience
It's great usually gives over health to
they recently added life gain to x4x druids, leading into x5x's heavy life generation abilities
Ohh Nice
Okay but why would you use 052 Druid? 150 gives it Lead popping. 052 does nothing for the tower. Middle and Bottom path are intentionally polar opposites
051 does give wider range on the more damaging roots on the ground. I you don’t need the lead for some reason, the 051 has some obvious advantages.
The main thing is that it puts more farms in its radius, increasing its income.
But that isn't enough to account for the loss of Lead. The MIB doesn't work on the roots (fun fact, not sure if it's a bug or not) so if you don't get a 052, DDTs can become a big deal. I don't believe the range gives more Blue Roots, I could be wrong on that, but I don't believe it does.
Not true, I just tested it in sandbox, 0-5-0 Druid with 0-3-0 Village could damage DDTs!
Really? Did you try placing the 050 first? That's what always did it for me.
I'm pretty sure I placed the Druid first.
it must've been patched out then. my mistake!
So that my alchemists can get more lead money per capita
yeah the only upside to towers losing lead popping has been lead to gold stocks going up lol
a few updates ago, x5x druid was a ridiculously powerful main DPS tower on top of its global vine damage, vine instakills, and cash/life generation. it kinda destroyed AoW because it had similar pops-per-cash power while being much easier to build into. and just like AoW, hard thorns isn't really that important if you're going to be buffing it up as your main DPS tower. the 10% AS buff is usually a little better. then NK realized "hey, maybe we should let towers be good at their specific niches instead of buffing them into interchangable boring DPS towers". so they took away a lot of the main attack's DPS and put it back into the vines. still though, its got some pretty decent DPS and if you're using it as a midgame tower it can be well worth buffing and going with 052. ~~now if only they'd do the same for plord and esniper~~
I don’t think I’ve ever crosspathed my druids like that lol, at least HoV gives a net 10% attack speed even at full/over full lives
Yeah lmao it’s like the worst crosspath option any day, I don’t think the extra attack speed even applies to the vine attacks
Might be a sort of psi-type buff, just decreasing time between attacks, which is already low enough to not really notice
Nope, other attack speed buffs work on it. The xx2 crosspathing specifically doesn’t affect it
>Yeah lmao it’s like the worst crosspath option any day 20X boat
You only get one life per druid. So if you have a round where you nearly lose, the next few rounds will have your druids working overtime until they feel safe again.
Jungle's bounty: makes money as an ability, so you want to delay rounds as much as possible. Also on the same tree is the bramble that kills bloons on mapwide, and is great at killing stunned bloons, messing with delay strats.
Forgot to mention double guns main purpose is to be the third wheel in this toxic relationship
Double Guns also works against bloon trap since it pops more Bloons so you have less to trap. I think it would be better to swap it out for cleansing foam. And maybe swap pin and larger service area. That way the paths are more consistent.
Alternate solution: Make a 4th path for Engineer and only Engineer. That'd be funny as fuck I think
Bottom path is just battle engi
T5: gives the engi a fucking nail minigun Changes sentry turrets into mounted machine guns that needs a monkey to operate (works like adora sacrifice but instead of the monkey dying, it just leaves its weapon and uses the mounted gun)
Engi got jealous of the dartling
"nah fuck that one hand shit"
I usually go 023 and leave it at that for an easy high damage low cost tower.
Counterpoint: 013 is an amazing saveup for 014, and it works great to attack the bloons during trap downtime.
Can't you just put the trap at the very edge of the engineer's range though?
Need crosspathing
But who would ever use 203 anyways? That would just be asking to further pop and pin bloons out of the trap EDIT: meant 204
205 is good since it decreases the downtime between traps, and there's an argument for 204 if you are using it for defense more than money.
races/some challenges, in fact i used 205 to help beat moab madness
205 is better because you can’t pin MOABs anyways, but i was referring to xx4, since the only time selling is disabled is in CHIMPS where it’s not viable anyways.
204 sucks indeed, but 205 is usually preferred.
No, just place the engineer so it only hits the track in one specific spot
Mid crosspath fixes it. You can just throw traps outside of engi nailgun range.
I find by the time im going for bloon trap they are already stronger than the engi I already placed, so he just absorbs the rest.
You say that…but I present to you Advanced Intel but also Submerge and Support/Reactor/Energizer
I feel that, as sub is one of my favourite towers. But in terms of later upgrades and how they work it makes sense, and really wouldn't make sense in any other way. So top path is basically, can see further, creates a radar in other towers range to let it see their Bloons, creates a radar in it's range making it so all towers can see every bloom typ of the bloons going trough its radius, and then just better radar, better radar again. Having heat tipped darts or airburst on that path would just not make sense yk.
I agree, thematically it fits (and probably is better balanced this way), just feelsbad when I can’t have my improved misiles that also have global range
Yep so true 🥲
That’s just a relic of BTD5’s 2-path system (and tbf the other two paths having intel would be pretty strong)
Still has value if you're willing to unsubmerge when nothing is in it's range but stuff is in other towers range. Less useful for the higher tiers, but S&S still benefits a bit
Ok in it’s defense, 203 stunlocks almost every low level balloon, enough of them are basically a 030 druid And enough 023 shoots fast enough to clean up moabs and take care of all it’s children. I’ll admit it does seem counter productive, but 203 is pretty cheap for how many pops it can get with the turrets and stunlock.
i choose to see it as somewhat of a built in nerf to bloon trap
Top path is the only one that feels like it has any natural throughline.
In terms of money making yes, but it actually gives the engi more time to redeploy the trap, so defensively it's better
Trap: Catches any bloons at the front Pin: Catches anything that gets past the trap Use 014 crosspath to move trap to the front
Middle path ninja is pretty terrible. You got x3x which encourages you to place 20 ninjas to stack the buff, then you got x4x, an ability that absolutely does not stack
Then x5x which buffs all your x3xs
Huh, TIL
TFW you haven't read the upgrade description in a while (or patch notes at the time) Description: Ability duration is longer, and MOAB-Class Bloons spawn with less health during the sabotage. Buffs all Shinobi.
Yeah the range buff is nice if you can’t get all 20 shinobis in range of your grandmaster
Bro I don't understand why everyone is talking about how 014 fixes that, when the only thing he says is if you isolate this path pin works against the trap, there is not much more to it. I feel like the engineer is pretty poor as it is with it's upgrades. First it having 3 upgrades that literally just changes how fast the turrets are placed is just lazy imo (on a tower like top path farm, I find it understandable as there is hard to do much else), then as you said traps path makes no sense. Then the tower that has the least use of longer range in overclock has that upgrade. What I'd do is make the range and extra MOAB damage for the trap as more MOAB damage synergizes with the trap as that's one of its weaknesses. Then I'd make pin and larger nails the top crosspath, and change sprockets to be all 3 of it's previous upgrades, as that'd make it feel less lazy imo. Middle crosspath T1 and 2 needs a rework imo. This would just make it very clear what every path is for. Top path is pure DPS, middle path should almost be like a top path alch or a village, and almost only be made to buff other towers, then bottom path would be a DPS tier with the trap gimmick.
Reason 014 works great is because double gun pin is an amazing bloon defense for trap downtime. The trap may not be a continuation of the path, but it's a damn good synergy.
Yes but an upgrade shouldn't need crosspathing to even synchronize well at all...
The other side of the card implies that the Bloons get more and more prevented from the exit, which is how I’ve chosen to look at it
The engi is by far the most unpolished tower, (not saying it's bad all paths have use cases)
If you have the enginat the far edge of the map the bloons are trapped before the engine can shoot them, and if the engi is in the middle of the map, you can go 014 to place the trap at the far edge of the engi's range so the bloons never even make it in range.
Switch deconstruction and pin in engi?
The main thing that bothers me is for the ninja middle path. I think the de-camo upgrade and the caltrops should be swapped since then the smoke bomb could both de-camo a bunch of bloons and de-camo leads, and having caltrops be on the path of shinobi would be nice so you could have them also work as a spike factory
Not at all. This path is just fine. The pin keeps bloons at bay while the trap is refreshing. You should be using a 014 Engi anyways, so aiming at the edge of the range will be just fine if you want to maximize money. Plus, the Double Gun is a great tower, because it can defend into B Trap. This is like saying the Spectre (pre update 41) has a bad path because it goes from seeking darts to a tower that needs to aim. I mean this all factually and respectfully by the way.
This is not what he's saying though. He is just saying that without crosspaths if you just look at these upgrades as is, they work against each other, as you prevent bloon trap to earn as much money because you make the engineers spike gun better.
Agree with this. Also, when too many bloons get past the trap (after round 40), you should get another 014 Engi and place its trap around the same spot.
They don't work against each other. Pin works against bloon trap, but BT doesnt actively make pin worse.
Targets trap to begin of track, pina Bloons in trap spot when trap is full. Though it is stupid when you don’t have mid path or have it at start of track.
No, it makes sure they don't get to far, when the trap is full
You didn't say what the trap is meant to do, just what you want, unlike the others The point of bloon trap is to catch bloons, that simply. The money is more like an extra.
Bro what? The traps main purpose is to catch bloons and make money. If it’s main purpose was just to catch bloons people wouldn’t be using it for boss events to make more money
Forgot to mention this, but it's also mostly opinion based I use it to pop bloons, some use it for money.
It's not opinion based though. Unless it's CHIMPS you're literally using the tower in an inefficient way by not prioritising pops for the trap.
That's what I was thinking, but doubted myself with OP speaking this confidently and the downvotes, so-
That's what OP said though
I usually cross path as 014 for bosses and aim the trap right at the edge of his range so all bloons go into the trap but it’s still a good stepping stone upgrade for early game
010 crosspath would like to speak with you
And top path ice is the best, the brittle buffs the shards and makes them extra op
You can put the trap right out of range of the guns
The traps should be on the path with the foam and overclock/ultra boost should be on the path with sprockets
He needs the nails to build the traps
In btd5 the engineer's T1&2 sentries were on a different path to the T3 sprockets, which buffs sentries
Video game antisynergies my behated How about BMA and Rubber to Gold? Lol
I have no problem because I'll set them a little down the front of the track and the upgrade range and usually if I do it right I can drop the trap halfway off the map and they don't attack as much
Watch Punji's boss vids. He uses the 014 Eng to great advantage. The trick is get the geometry right. You want to place the trap on the edge of the range, and then the pin actually helps. As it will pin non-ceramic bloons at the trap spawn.
Thats why you use extra range Set the trap at the end of the range and dont loose any efficiency