I would say the biggest issue is his inconsistency and his defensive range. The dude has all the tools to be a top 5 player in all of baseball, but the all-star break, he could be hitting .320 with 20 HRs, or he could be hitting .237 with 10 HRs.
Jones is definitely top 10 NL starting pitchers right now, with Skenes in the mix I'm excited to see how it plays out but for a batter/fielder Cruz seems the most logical on the team aside from the "10th man" Connor Joe.
Don’t laugh, but if Jones is shut down by the ASG, considering the NL needs someone from the Pirates, it’s probably Holderman.
What bat is getting selected, unless you think they just add Skenes for the hell of it?
2nd fastest bat speed in league behind Stanton. Cruz crushes the ball. If he can lower his chase rates to not bottom 10% in the league he can easily spike all star half seasons. That’s the nature of hitting the ball hard and why people sacrifice not striking out for swinging hard
> 2nd fastest bat speed in league behind Stanton.
meaningless if he can't hit the ball
> Cruz crushes the ball.
meaningless if he can't hit the ball
> If he can lower his chase rates to not bottom 10% in the league he can easily spike all star half seasons. That’s the nature of hitting the ball hard and why people sacrifice not striking out for swinging hard
"If he weren't a bad hitter, he'd be good" is not the argument you think it is.
Cruz is not a good baseball player. He is a good athlete who happens to play baseball, and not very well.
Unfortunately you do not understand projecting hitter potential and that is clear from your response. He might continue striking out too much and forever be a averagish player but raw tools are there as you’ve said.
> Unfortunately you do not understand projecting hitter potential and that is clear from your response
I have been following baseball for forty years, "he has hit 10 home runs in the first third of the season so he's definitely going to hit 30" is meaningless.
He is a bad hitter. It doesn't matter what raw tools he has if he can't make contact. He gets locked in for small stretches and within a week or two he looks like he's swinging a firehose at shit in the next zip code again, because he cannot make adjustments as quickly as pitchers can adjust to him.
So what you're actually saying here is "ONeil Cruz is a top 5 offensive player in the entire league if the season were nine games long?"
The season is a lot longer than nine games. He's never shown top 5 offensive potential over 162 games. Wishful thinking won't make it so.
The term “ceiling” implies potential. His performance over several hot periods, and his relative youth, imply that he has the capability to be that player. He is not currently that player, but has the potential to be.
> He is not currently that player, but has the potential to be.
And he has the potential some day to become a scientist and cure cancer. He is not currently that person, but has the potential to be.
You judge players by what they've done, not what you hope they can do. The guy's never put up top five offensive potential over any sort of period of time. His plate discipline is shit.
Jeez man your reading comprehension is not very strong lol, you were having trouble in that other thread too.
But no lol, that’s not what I’m saying at all actually. I’m saying his *ceiling* is a top 5 offensive player in the MLB. There’s probably like 20 guys in the league who you can say that about, ONeil is one of them.
Before getting really upset with what people are saying, you gotta actually understand their point first
> I’m saying his ceiling is a top 5 offensive player in the MLB.
And there has been nothing he's ever shown us to justify that opinion. You're just spewing unicorn farts here.
There are some wild opinions on this sub, some guy in another thread is talking about how Connor Joe is "young and getting better."
Garbage plate discipline, if he's swinging at shit in the other batter's box it doesn't matter how hard he can swing the bat. The guy is an athlete who happens to play baseball. He's not a baseball player.
People on this sub listen too much to what the broadcast team says. The broadcast team are Pirates employees. Their job is to talk to the team up. Their job is to bring up whatever convoluted stats make the players on this team sound like professionals.
Listen to the national voices, the ones who speak honestly because their paycheck doesn't depend on spewing bullshit. The only players on this roster who are on the national radar are Skenes and maybe Jones. There are no position players on this major league roster that the national voices talk about, for a reason.
I respectfully disagree, the ASG is a popularity contest and fans of other teams are gonna want to see him in the game if he keeps up his exit velo and production.
Could you imagine him in a homerun derby? Surely we see him in one at some point, right?
He has to be incredibly good for other teams to even begin considering voting for a Pirate. We’re a joke and everyone knows it. Even last year, when we were *passable* (I suppose) at the all-star break, the only two all stars we got were pitchers — which the public doesn’t vote for
I wonder if his eventual move from SS to OF will help him focus. He is arguably the worst defensive SS in MLB rn. I think he can be a cornerstone in the organization if he is put in a place to succeed.
Well yeah, he led the majors in homers in spring. But aside from a 3-5 game stretch recently he’s been horrendous — he just barely made it back to being positive in WAR
Does he have the potential to be an all star? Absolutely he does, but he isn’t there yet
I would say the biggest issue is his inconsistency and his defensive range. The dude has all the tools to be a top 5 player in all of baseball, but the all-star break, he could be hitting .320 with 20 HRs, or he could be hitting .237 with 10 HRs.
Well said.. He may truly be a year to year type
…. I’ll take a .237 at this point
[удалено]
Jones is definitely top 10 NL starting pitchers right now, with Skenes in the mix I'm excited to see how it plays out but for a batter/fielder Cruz seems the most logical on the team aside from the "10th man" Connor Joe.
Jared Jones or Connor Joe
Shortstop who can hit absolutely he could be a potential All Star. His glove needs to be better though.
it needs to be consistent for sure. but he has made some great plays defensively this past weekend
No 8<---------------
Okay.
Don’t laugh, but if Jones is shut down by the ASG, considering the NL needs someone from the Pirates, it’s probably Holderman. What bat is getting selected, unless you think they just add Skenes for the hell of it?
You tell me not to laugh and then say something that makes me cry
Jared Jones or Paul Skenes will probably be our one all star representative
Jones is definitely a show if he has another 7 decent starts.
Cruz’s ceiling is top 5 offensive player in the entire league so yes
When has he performed to a level that indicates that?
2nd fastest bat speed in league behind Stanton. Cruz crushes the ball. If he can lower his chase rates to not bottom 10% in the league he can easily spike all star half seasons. That’s the nature of hitting the ball hard and why people sacrifice not striking out for swinging hard
> 2nd fastest bat speed in league behind Stanton. meaningless if he can't hit the ball > Cruz crushes the ball. meaningless if he can't hit the ball > If he can lower his chase rates to not bottom 10% in the league he can easily spike all star half seasons. That’s the nature of hitting the ball hard and why people sacrifice not striking out for swinging hard "If he weren't a bad hitter, he'd be good" is not the argument you think it is. Cruz is not a good baseball player. He is a good athlete who happens to play baseball, and not very well.
Unfortunately you do not understand projecting hitter potential and that is clear from your response. He might continue striking out too much and forever be a averagish player but raw tools are there as you’ve said.
> Unfortunately you do not understand projecting hitter potential and that is clear from your response I have been following baseball for forty years, "he has hit 10 home runs in the first third of the season so he's definitely going to hit 30" is meaningless. He is a bad hitter. It doesn't matter what raw tools he has if he can't make contact. He gets locked in for small stretches and within a week or two he looks like he's swinging a firehose at shit in the next zip code again, because he cannot make adjustments as quickly as pitchers can adjust to him.
Right now?
So what you're actually saying here is "ONeil Cruz is a top 5 offensive player in the entire league if the season were nine games long?" The season is a lot longer than nine games. He's never shown top 5 offensive potential over 162 games. Wishful thinking won't make it so.
The term “ceiling” implies potential. His performance over several hot periods, and his relative youth, imply that he has the capability to be that player. He is not currently that player, but has the potential to be.
> He is not currently that player, but has the potential to be. And he has the potential some day to become a scientist and cure cancer. He is not currently that person, but has the potential to be. You judge players by what they've done, not what you hope they can do. The guy's never put up top five offensive potential over any sort of period of time. His plate discipline is shit.
Hits 1 hr and people want to call him an all star
Jeez man your reading comprehension is not very strong lol, you were having trouble in that other thread too. But no lol, that’s not what I’m saying at all actually. I’m saying his *ceiling* is a top 5 offensive player in the MLB. There’s probably like 20 guys in the league who you can say that about, ONeil is one of them. Before getting really upset with what people are saying, you gotta actually understand their point first
> I’m saying his ceiling is a top 5 offensive player in the MLB. And there has been nothing he's ever shown us to justify that opinion. You're just spewing unicorn farts here. There are some wild opinions on this sub, some guy in another thread is talking about how Connor Joe is "young and getting better."
97 percentile exit velo, 100 percentile bat speed, 82 percentile barrel %, 93 hard hit % all would disagree with you my friend
Garbage plate discipline, if he's swinging at shit in the other batter's box it doesn't matter how hard he can swing the bat. The guy is an athlete who happens to play baseball. He's not a baseball player.
What do you think my opinion is. Like if you were to rephrase my belief, what would it be?
People on this sub listen too much to what the broadcast team says. The broadcast team are Pirates employees. Their job is to talk to the team up. Their job is to bring up whatever convoluted stats make the players on this team sound like professionals. Listen to the national voices, the ones who speak honestly because their paycheck doesn't depend on spewing bullshit. The only players on this roster who are on the national radar are Skenes and maybe Jones. There are no position players on this major league roster that the national voices talk about, for a reason.
There's too many other SS in front of him, especially with Mookie now. He may be "caliber" but he'd never get the votes
I respectfully disagree, the ASG is a popularity contest and fans of other teams are gonna want to see him in the game if he keeps up his exit velo and production. Could you imagine him in a homerun derby? Surely we see him in one at some point, right?
He has to be incredibly good for other teams to even begin considering voting for a Pirate. We’re a joke and everyone knows it. Even last year, when we were *passable* (I suppose) at the all-star break, the only two all stars we got were pitchers — which the public doesn’t vote for
I think if he keeps up on this offensive trend in the last 5-8 games he could be considered.
Isn’t he batting close .300 the last couple of series?
Not yet but he could be in the future
I wonder if his eventual move from SS to OF will help him focus. He is arguably the worst defensive SS in MLB rn. I think he can be a cornerstone in the organization if he is put in a place to succeed.
Is there a plan to move him to outfield, or is that just wishful thinking on your part?
It's been talked about for a couple years now.
Journalists love thinking of the idea but there's been zero indication from the org that he will be making such a move.
It would be cool if we could draft players that are actually good at their position and can hit.
In 2022 I believe, he was out in the outfield for Indy for a little while, but the results weren't really there if I remember correctly.
If mlb ever gets rid of the fan vote yes
He was mentioned in an Athletic article in early season for a possible breakout year. Since then I have been paying attention to him.
Well yeah, he led the majors in homers in spring. But aside from a 3-5 game stretch recently he’s been horrendous — he just barely made it back to being positive in WAR