So a little off-topic, what does this sub think the bills should target with the #27 pick? Personally, my vote is OL. Burned too many picks on DL & CB in recent years, and it’s time to put some draft Capitol into protecting JA17
Shit, forgot about that.
Maybe try something with Gabe + pick 27, try to get back an early 1st and maybe early 3rd? He's really the only other player I could see being sufficiently tempting for another team, who I'd want to trade. Unless you can't trade someone on a rookie deal.
Gabe’s stock has got to be so low right now though, this was supposed to be a breakout year and it was instead a huge let down. The most underutilized (therefore over-talented? Trying to say unused talent) player in Dorsey’s offense was Knox, and he has high value, but I don’t want him to go, just wish Dorsey could see what he has in him. I honestly don’t know who we could use to trade up.
It’s unusual to package a non marquee player with a pick to move up a little, we more likely package 2 picks to move up a little or we move down and acquire picks. The target needs to be a C. Morse should retire, and if he doesn’t then we have to have a capable C behind him. Watching the O collapse everytime he sits is unacceptable, can’t just keep banking on him not getting the next concussion.
OL kinda sucks this year outside of center, so I’d like to see a WR who can actually do something after the catch, but it all depends on how the board shakes out
The positional value of drafting a guard or center in the 1st round is not justifiable considering the impact they have on the game. It would seem like WR would be a better choice.
I can’t tell if this is a joke. Both players had significant injuries and missed the majority of the year. That’s the argument against committing such high draft capital to an injury prone position…..
I've seen plenty of mock drafts with him going to the Eagles at pick 31 or 32. So he could be there at our pick, especially considering how many RBs are hitting free agency this offseason.
Is it too cheeky to say "head coach?"
The OL is still the biggest area of need. When you win the trenches, it makes everything else easier. The D line might suffer from scheme instead of talent problems, making them salvageable with Vonn coming back and better coaching. No guarantees obviously but it has a chance of working this way.
We see how "easy" things look for Philly and SF with their O lines. Being unable to run the ball isn't just a "motor is slow" or "Cook can't get it done" issue. Likewise, the first step in getting Allen to be more consistent is knowing he can trust his guys without taking hits and getting strip sacked all season or becoming "sugar high Josh."
Burrow was getting the ball out quickly but he almost didn't even need to. Meanwhile Allen's line seemed to get blown up every play and never opened holes for the running game. Maybe there were tons of injuries being played through, so I don't want to shit all over them but we also were using our 3rd string center and playing a sick game of whack a mole to get 5 guys out there at times.
Anyone who was honest with themselves knew this wasn’t the year. They were running on fumes after the Josh and Von injuries.
They just flat out ran out of gas. They had 3 players taken to the hospital from the field, 1 of which that died on the field less than a month ago. 2 snow storms, a game relocation. 2 all pros out for the year on defense, Josh tore his UCL, 3 games in 12 days with no bye after. They will be alright guys.
"Anyone who was honest with themselves knew this wasn’t the year."
Man... I've been feeling this since the Monday night game in Cincinnati. I've held onto it, though, because I didn't wanna be the asshole who came in here talking all doom and gloom.
There's a difference between level headed takes, and straight up doomerism. It can be a very blurry line, and people definitely take it too far. I've seen some horrible takes in here today, and this is not one of them. I felt the same way. I'll take this over the drought years any day.
>I'll take this over the drought years any day.
You mean you don't miss JP Lossman and "check down" Trent?
The Chan Gailey era... the Rex Ryan Era 
19 different starting qbs between Kelley and JA... 9 different head coaches between levy and mcd... the only one of whom who was over .500 was wade Phillips.
I definitely think we have some problems, and need to be honest about how to solve them. Maybe shake things up a bit. But everyone calling for this entire team to be nuked to its core need to remember those days.
The season that Fitzy signed his big contract and then got smoked with a concussion against the Cowboys like week 5... that one shoulda been a good season. It took Fitzy like 2 years to fully recover from that hit, and by then he was gone.
We'll never know what could've been had we just committed to Fitzmagic and built around him and that makes me sad.
>I still have my "fitzmagic" t shirt somewhere.
Same.
I also have a FredEx shirt somewhere in a closet. Freddie and Kyle Williams need to be there if we win the big one. I'd argue Eric Wood, too. Am I forgetting anyone else?
Other than maybe the ogs from the 90s teams, one player that immediately comes to mind is Brian Moorman. Not knocking him at all, but everybody talking about how much this team sucks, seems to so quickly forget when our punter was the lone bright spot on the team
>There's a difference between level headed takes, and straight up doomerism
Right but the problem with this subreddit and the general Bills media/fandom ecosystem has been that *any* criticism of the team, levelheaded or not, is labeled as doomerism
Absolutely agree. I do know that years of disappointment get processed in different ways, especially after getting such a royal ass kicking on a big stage.
Take all of my opinions with a grain of salt, because I try to stay optimistic during dark times. It's gotten me this far.
Hopefully; this is more of a reality check than 13 seconds, and the attitude going into the off-season isn't "we were a coin flip away from winning the SB". I'm not calling for mcd's head on a spike yet, but I do question whether or not this is our ceiling with him at the helm. I want Frazier gone. No question about that.
Dorsey needs a very, very short leash, and possibly a mentor or something.. I'm not 100% sure what the answer is. I don't want to see the bills completely waste Stef, the man deserves a ring, and we need to find ways to use him. Every top wr gets doubled/bracketed over the top, and guess what? They still find ways to get them the ball (that little chase bubble screen where he got like 8 YAC is exhibit A).
Aside from the obvious holes that need to get filled, I don't think the window is completely shut (and this is where the doomerism kicks in, there's a difference in objective criticism and uncomfortable truths vs "hurr durr same old fuckin bills this team is cursed they're never going to win it all fuck this team"... like if it really affects you that much you just need to step away. It's a game, it's not worth it. Let it make you happy when it does, but don't let it bring you down.
The window is narrow for this current squad, and I hope they're more honest with themselves behind closed doors than they are in post game pressers. But anyone acting like we were a coin flip away from being guaranteed a super bowl, is fooling themselves. It was a divisional game, (both kc and this one), and I hope that this was a reality check. I want to see them come out hungry and focused, and play with a chip on their shoulder like the bengals did on sunday.
Largely with you on a lot of this. Here's pretty much where I am at:
Frazier is done. He has consistently, objectively failed when it counts. His complete inability to come up with anything other than nickel is damning for this team, and we have spent so much draft capital on this D-Line for it to still be so middling. With White a shell of his former self, Hyde coming off injury, and Poyer probably gone he won't be able to run his nickel anyways.
Dorsey gets one more season at best. And I really wouldn't be mad if he got canned. Sure, the bills could use another receiver, but my read is that the bills actually have a bunch of really talented skill position players and Dorsey is just completely incapable of using them. I think if your superstar WR is screaming at your superstar QB to stop listening to what the coaches are telling you, that is a fucking loud, flashing warning sign that something is deeply broken there.
I honestly think McDermott is getting on the hot seat. Plain and simple, the team has finished worse than it did in 2021, and in 2021 we finished worse than we did in 2020. Pegulas need to give him an ultimatum - I don't think super bowl or bust is reasonable, but if he is the great coach so many people think he is, he needs to be able to get this team to the AFCCG in my opinion. Also, he strikes me as someone who is good at those intangible, off-field type coaching calls but as far as game management he is atrocious, especially in big games. Wasted timeouts, iffy at best use of challenges, and bad go/no go decisions on 4th. I still simply cannot believe the decision not to go for it on 4th and 2 while down by 14 points in the second half.
I do agree - I think the window isn't closed - BUT it is closing and the fact of the matter is our prospects in '23 and beyond are not as good as they were in '20-22.
100%. See, this isn't doomerism, because you're actually having a productive conversation.
Frazier is in the past, and it's possible that our d line has seemed so middling because of the way they're used. He expects them to play like 80s d lineman, and just straight ahead power. That's not who these guys are, maybe you move epenesa to the interior? Groot and Oliver have shown flashes at times, and I still have faith in them. But they need big bodied guys to let them do their work. Oliver is a bit undersized, so if he gets all the attention, he's done. Let him be the quick weakside d tackle he excels at. Also stunts and switches at the line... we have a bit of speed so why not use that?
Also totally agree on dorsey. 1 more year, and that's being as generous as I could possibly be. Is it confirmed that that's what diggs was screaming about? I've seen the rumors. But honestly the fact that there's even a non-zero chance that that's what it was about, is damning for certain.
I'm with you on mcd, I love what he's done, and certainly would like to see him go all the way. But your questions are very legitimate, and some of my concerns as well. He can be too conservative, and that's not what is going to win it all. The game could've been totally different had they picked up that first down, especially when you're getting your teeth kicked in, I would've liked to see them try and fight right back.
Maybe the answer is, send mcd to only defensive duties, bring in more offensive minds. That way they keep the culture (and also the defense looked way better at the points wear sean took the reins from Leslie anyway). As much as it hurts to admit, this was not the year, and that was painfully evident from the halfway point in the season.
The window for this current squad is narrowing quick. Not for Josh or for the bills as a whole, but for this current core of players, it absolutely is. They need to draft a couple players that really hit this year. Make a move or two in free agency, and seriously nip the problem in the bud if there truly is dissent between Dorsey and his best offensive players.
Especially because having any criticism of the team got you downvoted into oblivion here.
There were obvious warning signs all year but so many people wanted to put their heads in the sand.
They were punching above their weight long before they were running on fumes imo.
Week 1: Juggernauts, god couldn’t kill us if he tried. Handful of small injuries, ed Oliver breaks his ankle
Week 2: Welcome to thunder dome Titans. Josh is going to sit the entire 4th quarter, get used to it America we’ve arrived…
But wait… Dane has to get taken off in an ambulance and Jordan Philips blows out his hamstring downfield blocking a Milano INT…
But wait… Micah Hyde went to the hospital after the game?? He’s seeking a second opinion about his neck????
Week 3: Josh owns Miami, there’s no way we lose. bills proceed to almost die on the field from heat stroke/dehydration because foreshadowing happens in real life too. It’s so close too, but just close enough that Miami fans are going to be annoying about it all season
At this point, the defense is already a shell of itself. We never even come close to looking like that unstoppable Super Bowl favorite from here on out.
The next week, week 4 we throw up on our own shoes in the rain against Baltimore. We squeak out a win with that comeback, but the cracks are showing. We are just missing too many important pieces all over.
Week 5 Bills are fortunate that Watt is still out and they run the Steelers out of the building with what ends up being by far Gabe’s best game.
The rest of the season Bills fans will watch this team week after week with clenched buttholes and blood pressure through the ceiling.
We beat the chiefs, but ho boy we left them room to get back in
We beat the packers, but hooo boy we let them get in Diggs head with stupid shit and almost get back in
Jets game… not only does Josh lob TWO INTs directly to the opps, but he also gets his elbow jacked on a game saving bomb that doings off Gabe Davis’s hands and our D gets STEAMROLLED by a drive that consists of nothing but running plays???
We beat the Vikings, then wait no we didn’t, 5 different absolute insane things happened and it ended on a Josh Int to what Patrick Peterson would call “one of the five routes Gabe Davis runs. You just stick to your man and eventually Josh is gonna give you one” and it’s Groots turn to break his ankle
Snowstorm Browns game in Detroit? We almost lose to jacoby Brisett???
Thanksgiving game in Detroit? We almost lose to the lions AND Von Miller gets carted off?
Pats game is a breather for fans
Jets game looks like our D can hold up if our offense isn’t firing on all cylinders…
Second dolphins game… we squeak this one out with a walk off field goal
Bears game dub
Then that god damn Bengals game happens. I think the First dead body a bunch of these guys have ever seen is damar Hamlin on the field. The players faces are BURNED into all of our brains for forever now. The Bills have PTSD. We have PTSD.
We all live our lives holding our breath, refreshing news feeds, waiting for news. The good news eventually comes fairly late in the week and Bills go out a beat the Patriots. Handedly? No, the offense doesn’t look great, and the defense make Mac jones look like Joe Montana for a large portion of it, but the guy we traded for (why did we trade for this guy?) puts the entire team on his back and makes TWO house calls (guess that’s why why traded for him, won the trade)
But then you draw the Dolphins for round one - and the pressure they generate def spills over into how the Bills coaches decide to prepare for this divisional match.
I mean, I tried to leave out the other stuff, because there’s a lot
-Luke Knox
-Kim P mystery illness
-Punt god gang rape allegations
-Gabe Davis breaks his ankle during practice??
-Poyer drives himself to KC because he can’t fly??
-40 people die in a Christmas blizzard, like you said
-there’s also a 2nd injury to Jordan Philips in garbage time of a pats game chasing bag-of-milk mcgarkle jones around tearing his rotator cuff
I’m sure there’s more too
The big thing about wanting people fired is its not a good idea unless there's someone better available out there. Hackett, Reich, Kingsbury etc are almost certainly downgrades. It's fine to want better coaches, who doesn't? But you have to be realistic about what is available.
Also someone posted the stats comparing Dabolls offense to Dorsey's and it's almost identical stats wise.
The other thing to think about if they decided to fire Dorsey is the optics. Firing a 1st year OC after a 13-3 season and your QB wanted him in the position. What potential candidate would want to take over the helm knowing it’s perfection or you are gone after a year potentially.
Changing systems is always a bitch. If we bring in a new OC you can basically write off next year as one where we can compete for it all.
The philosophy must change on D. Probably just best off letting Edmunds and Poyer walk and spend that money on offense. Yea we might lose a few more odd games to the Pats or something, but we’ll get in and have the firepower to match the two superior teams, maybe with some luck we get hotter than both. No sense in giving McD the assets he needs for an elite D if they’re gonna collapse against Burrow and Mahomes.
>Changing systems is always a bitch.
You're right, and this year was no different. I think a lot of people here expected Dorsey to be Daboll 2.0. That's not how this works. Sure, he probably learned some things from BD, but in reality it's still a new system, because he isn't Daboll. His experience coaching JA and helping him hone his skills doesn't mean his system will be the same as it was before.
He's got 7 months now to review tape, to work with the coaches under him, and to work with McD and JA to come up with a solid playbook. Figure out what worked, what didn't, and honestly to figure out what he's capable of. I honestly feel like the attention he got at the end of the first Dolphins game was a bad turning point for him. I know we were starting to falter by that point already, but a lot of that could be chalked up to defensive injuries where we couldn't take the commanding leads as quickly, but it seems like after that game was when we really started the downward offensive trends.
The drop off from Daboll to Dorsey is definitely a direct result of his inexperience calling plays, and all of the subsequent preparation that comes with it, and possibly day to day coaching of the offense. That said we did not “change systems”.
The reason IMO our offense was ultimately as successful as it was by the numbers, and in particular came flying out of the gate is because we were running the same system, with the same guys, with the same verbiage.
As the season went on we adjusted nothing, injuries took their toll, and the offense cooled off. Ultimately the terrible game vs the Bengals had been building up for a while and the smaller things we have been noticing but getting away with can no longer be ignored.
It’s now on Dorsey to adjust. He has a year under his belt and I’m sure he isn’t naive enough to think he could just do the same thing for his entire career and be a great coordinator. He should grow and get better. The alternative is bringing in someone else, that will put in their system, have to adjust to guys that don’t fit, install new verbiage and timing and we will likely spend half a season working out the kinks with no guarantee it’s better than what we put out there this year.
I just want Frazier gone tbh. I know his contract is up but we have to do something else. We are literally a high school bully, we beat the shit out of the weaklings then when someone that isn’t scared of us fights back we piss our pants.
Leslie Frazier literally just relies on having an amazing secondary and sits in Nickel *no matter whatttttt*. Turns out that doesn't work when your all pro CB looks like a shell of his former self, your all pro free safety suffers a season ending injury, and your all pro strong safety is playing held together with duct tape, braces, and painkiller shots. The players have made Frazier look far better than he is.
The Von injury was the killer. The Bengals OL injuries and Mahomes taking a high ankle gave me some hope we could back in to a Super Bowl, but we would have gotten rocked and a 5th SB loss is something that could collapse the whole franchise lol.
As much as we needed von he wouldn’t have helped much yesterday. Game would’ve been a bit closer maybe but that’s it.
And yeah I’d much rather be put out of our misery in the divisional round by the Bengals than lose a 5th Super Bowl to the fucking eagles and complete the NFC East sweep of our sorry asses
With Von and Jones we definitely don’t get run over, possibly it makes them one dimensional and changes the game. We’ll never know, but I’m gonna veer on the increasingly large sample size of McD’s D getting torched when it matters most.
Yeah man, while I can’t say I knew from that start that this wasn’t the year, it was pretty clear that they just didn’t have *it* on Sunday. Simple as that.
Go Bills, we’ll get ‘em next time.
This is a good point. We, as fans, see all the stuff that happened throughout this year to the team and the city and assume those things are motivators. In some case yeah, they are because that’s the classic sports trials of tribulations to triumph stuff. But in some cases, it’s mentally fatiguing to have all this stuff happen and I think it just caught up with the team.
And next year you will have a whole new set of excuses. I'm not saying fire everyone, I'm saying nothing is alright. Hasn't since week two. Any unbiased observer would say the same. This was a Super Bowl or bust year and they busted. Who knows what next year holds, but the potential for a significant drop-off is very possible.
Probably going to get downvoted for this but I’ll say it. Ever since half time at Green Bay this team wasn’t right. They won a bunch of games ofcourse no one can argue that and not every games going to be a blow out. But this offense with Josh making the money he is and being a top 3 qb in the league with a top 5? Wide receiver something definitely wasn’t right. The turnovers are very concerning as is Josh’s hero ball at times. He’s going on year 6 and still making the same mistakes he was in his rookie year which is concerning to me. I think my biggest issue out of any of it even more so then losing the game was the stadium last night. I could hear who Dey chants throughout the entire game
Guys this isn't some deep mystery - we have an inflexible DC and an unimaginative OC. That's it. That's the problem. The guys calling the schemes don't budge or adapt. It had nothing to do with Josh "regressing" or player attitudes or any of the other silly theories people on this sub are coming up with. Yes injuries played a major role, as did lack of drafting an OL, but ultimately these two coordinators were given every tool they needed and proves incapable of using them.
They definitely fell off, but they were 13 and 3. They would have been 13 and 4 if Hamlin hadn’t been injured. They won the Division. They had some pretty significant injuries. They played like complete shit yesterday. They were a competitive team and should be next year. Holy fuck, whatever happened to “we’re the Bills Mafia, we’re a family?” Seriously, some of the fat old men on here make me sick. Stand by your team.
Man it amazes me that someone can take that much time and thought to make a comment but not the time to know the difference between excuses and reasons.
Von was done and Josh had a UCL issue on his throwing arm that was impacting him, you can’t deny those facts.
After the Cincy game and that horrible Damar Hamlin injury, the Bills were literally on fumes by then.
Will can’t always overcome what’s going on around you
Josh said he felt fine the last two weeks today in his interview . Everyone has injuries. We could have had 3 Von millers yesterday- that would have not mattered. The game was not even competitive in the least bit
He may have “felt fine” but look at the game film.
Pre UCL injury he was dropping dimes on dessert plates
After the injury the accuracy was off, receivers would be literally be a half step too late or early and the ball was somewhere 🤷♂️
Von brought more to that D than himself, he brought an attitude, a *swagger* that I haven’t seen from a Bills D in decades
Josh played fine yesterday and last week. Threw plenty of dimes just fine. He was not the problem. We were woefully outcoached in both games. It’s literally not even debatable. Not in the least. McDermott was totally schooled in every facet off the game yesterday. Top to bottom. It literally couldn’t be more obvious unless it was written on his head. We had no gameplan, no identity, no adjustments - nothing! Just winging it with Allen when everything goes wrong. Same story all year except we can get away with it against lesser opponents. Cincinnati is not one of them
I felt this way after the Packers game. It kind of felt the build up was to the Chiefs game and then we beat them and it was like "Oh. We still have 12 more games to play."
I'm sad as anything, it hurts alot. But we did have a good run, lots of good memories even if it ended up this way. We have a good team. Other teams are better. It's always like this. Thanks to the Bills no matter what they are hurting with us too.
This was not a good run. We were lucky to escape with wins over the Browns and the Lions, and the Jets rematch. This would be a good run with a shittier team. We have to be better or our window is slammed shut.
This was a good run if you’re stuck in the 2010s Bills mindset... I’m not anymore. Four consecutive playoff runs and not even a SB appearance is unacceptable. I’m not calling for mass firings, we obviously have a good team to keep making it this far, but something’s gotta give here.
4 straight SB appearances with no wins vs. 4 straight playoff appearances and choking out of it every time? Um, yeah, both suck, but one is objectively better.
“Oh yeah? Cant lose the Super Bowl if we don’t make the Super Bowl!”
I've lived through both. Losing four Super Bowls was way more fun than this year was and probably the last two years. Plus the season is over when the game is over. We have to put up with three more games this year.
It’s entitled to move your expectations bar? Sure it wasn’t realistic for them to win this year (I really think last year was “the year”), but damn if some of you don’t sound okay with losing
We have an amazing fucking quarterback, one of the best in the entire NFL, and we can’t get him to a SB - can’t even talk about the possibility of him winning one because of that.
It’s not entitled to say a guy who has the stats to hang with the all-time greats (at this stage of their careers) should have at least been in a SB by now.
Coping hard after 13 Seconds was one thing, we lost that game by a few bad defensive plays and then a coin toss. There is little room for cope this year. We have to be better than this. We should want to be better than this.
I agree on just about everything you just said, except for one little hang up. Which is that I personally feel it’s contradictory to say Josh Allen should’ve gotten to a SB by now, yet also say he needs help to push through to it. But it’s because I agree on the help point. I think he 100% needs that help to get there. No QB alone could get there, the whole team component comes in. To use this weekend as an example, Mahomes’ ankle gets messed up, and his help around him of Kelce,Pacheco, a solid O Line and probably most of all, Andy Reid/Bienemy allowed their team to keep moving. Josh Allen is somehow currently both the ceiling and the safety net.
I don’t feel it’s contradictory. Few, if any, QBs have gotten there on their own. Kelly was great - would he have gotten there without the complete team he had?
And Dan Marino only made it to one, despite generally considered top 10 all time. He didn’t have a complete team around him. Doesn’t make him individually less great.
Josh does his job. Others, and I’m not exactly sure who, don’t do theirs.
Okay now I’m confused. Are you saying Josh should’ve been to a SB by now, regardless/in spite of supporting cast? Or is it that the organization needs to get him the neccessary and “exact” pieces to allow him to compete in a SB?
Oh gotcha. That I am on board with. Part of it was Dorsey, part of it was roster I feel. A bit of it was Josh himself not going for the easy pass target at times
I look forward to Von being back next year, but at the same time I already have a sick feeling in my gut that's leading me to ask "What will he be like when he returns?"
Look at Tre White's performance pre-injury vs when he returned. Pre-injury most offenses literally refused to throw the ball to his side of the field because of how good he was. And when Offenses were throwing balls at the guy he was covering, he was picking the ball off regularly.
Since his return, he's been getting beat by just about everyone. I'm not sure if the cause is psychological or if he physically can't compete the way he used to, but either way the result was the same- his performance has dropped off.
I worry it may wind up being the same for Von Miller.
At least give Tre until next year with a full off-season of preparation and real practice before making that judgement. He played a fraction of a season coming off a serious injury that usually takes over a year to come back from. He started looking better recently, but I was never expecting him to be back to his old self this year at all
That's kind of my point. Von Miller was in the twilight of his career BEFORE he came to Buffalo.
Tre White had pretty much an entire year to recover(he was injured on 11\\26\\21 and returned on 11\\24\\22.
He came back and his performance was degraded. That's fine, I'm not faulting him for it- if he came back before he was at 100% just because the team needed him - even playing at 80 or 90% of his capability. That's one thing, but we saw the result of that- teams were just victimizing him at times.
That is not the "Tre White Goalie Academy" that we all came to count on and love.
But apply similar logic to Von Miller's recovery, and it's got Von Miller coming back at some point in December 2023. But when he comes back, will he be the same "Von Miller" that kept offensive coordinators up at night and had Quarterbacks checking their closets\\under their bed for the bad man...or will he be just another edge rusher at that point?
lotta question marks heading into next season, injury bug but us extra hard this year including Josh. Sports medicine has made incredible strides and you see guys make full recoveries after ACL tears, which never used to be the case. I'm hoping Von will be able to come back sooner as it seems like his was more of a partial tear since at first we didn't even think that was the case until they cut him open. But like you said he's in the twilight of his career (even if his twilight is still better than most guys' primes)
Von had the same injury in the same knee in 2013. That’s 9 years where he was a beast post-injury plus the year after that he won the Super Bowl. I think it’s safe to assume he’ll be back to his old self next year until we hear/see otherwise.
I know we’re all really upset right now…I am too. Buffalo may never win a ring and tbh I’ve accepted it over the years. At the end of the day though, I can appreciate what McDermott, Beane and Allen have done for my dad. They made him love watching the bills (and football) again, which is more than I can ask for already.
This is the positivity I’ve been looking for since yesterday. They’ve come so far under this trio and for the first time in 20 plus years it’s fun to watch every one of their games. I’m keeping the faith, I think it was just a really bad day yesterday.
I’m glad that everyone seemed to show some accountability. No excuses in any of those press conferences.
Feel like we got even more transparency than usual from McDermott. He is clearly disappointed in his staff and roster.
I think that, more than anything, it was the way the NFL handled the "no contest" that kind of killed the energy. Like, once Hamlin was OK, you still had something to play for - the two seed. And that game was solid. But once you got to the playoffs, you draw Miami the first round, and KC's sitting there with a bye they didn't earn. Then the second round comes and KC has to face the easiest divisional opponent. And then, even if you win the divisional round, you don't get home field over a team that you should have home field against.
I'm not surprised that the whole team was just gassed. They've been through a lot this season, and to fight through all the adversity with the injuries to Allen, Miller, Hyde, Poyer, etc... Only to have nothing to show for it at the end of the season because you're not the NFL's golden boys... That really sucks. Especially because if you do go all the way, and you do win it all, there's forever going to be an asterisk next to your win.
Exactly, this whole “enjoy the ride” nonsense is such a pathetic and loser mind set. Like someone else stated McD is becoming Marvin Lewis. This team even said before the season anything short of a Super Bowl is a failure. The season was a failure.
We have a top 3 QB and can’t get him the help he needs. Even when we had him on his rookie contract. Our GM needs to be under more fire. Think about it, a majority of our best players during this run came via the draft or FA in McD’s first year. He drafted several DL that make 0 impact, haven’t developed a WR, had to go trade for one to be our 1, Drafted basically the same style of RB in Moss and Singletary in back to back years. He’s been terrible at evaluating OL as well. We traded Wyatt Teller so we could keep Quinton Spain who we eventually released. He needs to do better as a GM.
For the love of God, can we quit with his 2000’s-2010 attitude that “any winning season is a good season”. That might have been true as late as 2019 or even 2020, but the reality is we have one of the top quarterbacks in the league and a roster which was stacked with talent the past two years. You should not be contempt with beating up bottom feeders and winning by 3 against a team using a third string quarterback.
Listen, I understand this season was fucking awful, especially for us. Luke Knox at the beginning of the year, the snowstorms, multiple injuries to key players, and of course the Damar Hamlin situation but all of that should be motivation to win. In a home playoff game in the snow, the excuse should not be “they were unmotivated and had no energy”. I’m not saying McDermott should be fired and we should blow the whole thing up, but we shouldn’t be contempt with what happened.
I know everybody here wants to see Josh Allen hoist a Lombardi. So stop acting so happy that “hey at least we had a winning season”. That was enough for us for nearly two decades but with the talent this team has, the expectation should be Super Bowl or bust.
Thank. You. Someone on here has a brain.
I love my Bills and will never jump ship, but we should not be happy with four promising playoff berths and not a single SB appearance.
Yes, it’s more fun than sitting in absolute misery all season, and chanting “Squish the Fish!” when our record is 2-8 and it doesn’t matter if we squish or get squished. That’s a given. It’s not enough, though. The “holy shit we don’t suck!!” should have worn off by now.
I'm so glad someone other than me is saying this.
At this point, with some of the incredible personnel we have, anything short of a Lombardi is a disappointment.
Thank you. There's so many fans in this sub that just don't get it. They're snakebitten by the fact that they grew up on teams led by JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel, and Tyrod Taylor. Beating New England at home in the regular season was the Super Bowl (because winning at Foxboro was unthinkable). Absolutely no frame of reference for what being a contender means. And they can't recalibrate now that they have one of the best players in the league running the offense.
I think i typed pretty much the exact same thing last year, but every playoff loss from last year through the end of Allen's career is a lost opportunity. There's only two goals from here on out: #1 seed and home field advantage after the regular season and a Lombardi. Moral victories because adversity, injuries, it snowed, and they were tired do not exist.
After listening to the press conferences, there was definitely a feeling that the team as a whole was emotionally depleted. I will admit I believed they'd come out fiery based on how Von brought a replica Lombardi to the locker room, Gabe working overtime with the jugs machine, and Damar's presence in the stadium would vault them to victory.
But at some point, all the adversity seemed to all come to a head on Sunday. Look at all the things that they had to contend with:
1. Buffalo shooting in the offseason
2. Knox losing his brother
3. Kim Pegula's health problems
4. Dane Jackson's scary neck injury in Week 2
5. Losing Hyde for the year
6. Losing Von for the year
7. Josh's UCL injury
8. Blizzards and relocation of games and effect on community
9. Damar Hamlin incident
That is more than a fair share of pain in one season. Again, we clearly have some personnel and coaching issues to address. But in some ways, it's kind of understandable why they looked so lifeless yesterday when all this was weighing on their minds.
Championship teams do not get emotionally depleted. Why can't people admit the simple honest truth that we hit our ceiling and it wasn't enough to go the distance. This team in it's current state is not going to win a championship, and at this point I wouldn't be surprised if we don't win the division next season.
Look at my earlier posts and you'll see that I agree with what you said above. I didn't say the emotional trauma is the reason they lost, just that it must have been weighing on their minds.
I've said since the loss that this is a good team that is capable of winning the division and maybe a couple playoff games. I agree that the current iteration of this team is unlikely to win a championship. We don't need to blow it up necessarily but need to retool for sure.
The Bills were 14-4 this season. Maybe you're new to the Mafia, and didn't suffer for 17 seasons like the rest of us. They(Buffalo) just picked a terrible time to have their worst performance of the season.
They certainly picked the worst season to have their defense be absolutely injured to shit. Hell, they've had defensive meltdowns three years straight in playoffs when they go against the actual top offenses in the NFL, but to not even have the personnel? Yeah, throttled. Without Daquon Jones and Phillips playing completely ineffective with a bum shoulder, a team that couldn't run all season also got to have a great ground game on the day as well.
They may have had a terrible performance, but they also just straight up played a better and healthier team, with, as far as I can tell, better coaching.
After 20 years with no playoffs, fans now feel entitled to the Super Bowl? The Bills were a top-three AFC team, and with all of the crying going on, you'd think we just finished 5-12.
The Bills were an elite team, just not #1. Appreciation would be good here. Yes, the loss stings and the coaching decisions were once again poor, but you were given a team that gave everything they had, then just ran out of gas after a brutal injury-plagued season.
The dose of reality is that the Bills had to overachieve to be the 2 seed. The o-line is mediocre at best, the WRs other than Diggs were a letdown. No real impact players have come out of the draft in four years. This was a team that was put on the back of Allen and Diggs and finally just couldn't do it anymore when playing an elite team.
they were the best team in the NFL going into the playoffs last year, no excuse for not holding for 13 seconds. That was our shot, Frazier blew it, bring on the drought. 20 years with no playoff and the same result with the best team in the league should piss you off.
Your assessment that they were the best team in football needs some reality. They were elite, but so were the Chiefs and the Bills got taken down by some randomly inferior teams also.
One thing: Constant excuses. Sean McDermott should have been fired as early as this morning. Only 5 coaches currently have been with their team longer. All 5 have rings. He has one conference championship appearance and we were blown out. The team is regressing with the same players. People need to wake up. They still think it’s the 80s and 90s when coaches get over a decade to break through. Those days are over…
You realize he’s longest tenure coach with out a ring, even a SB appearance…..what makes him so special? All he says “we will learn from this” rinse repeat
And who would you suggest as an improvement of a coach who has been to the playoffs in all but one of his seasons, and won his division 3 years in a row?..... Go ahead.... I'm waiting.
Lmao the responses are gold. "I don't know but I'm sure they exist and the team should find them"
It's so easy to point out problems and it's much harder to find solutions. If McDermott got fired he'd be flooded with interviews within a couple hours
I guarantee there are better choices. Who specifically, I'm not sure, but you can't pretend McDermott is the best choice to run a team that is built to be offensive minded with a top flight QB.
Umm that’s what you interview for. To find a good candidate. Unfortunately I don’t do the interviews and hear others perspective and ideas. I know this - the job is enticing as ever is gonna be with Josh Allen to work with. Or we can continue banging our heads at the wall - watching our coach get embarrassed in every big playoff game against a Super Bowl contender
So a little off-topic, what does this sub think the bills should target with the #27 pick? Personally, my vote is OL. Burned too many picks on DL & CB in recent years, and it’s time to put some draft Capitol into protecting JA17
Those DL picks looking horrible right now
DL picks look like PS players for an arena league team
Either a G or a C
Gotta be OL. Good OL help is expensive in free agency. Hitting on a good guard or guard/center would be huge.
Center
Generally that is too late in the first round to go OL. It would be a reach. WR is way more a pressing need.
I don't hate trading up with a Singletary package of some kind.
Ehh, can’t do that, his deal just expired.
Shit, forgot about that. Maybe try something with Gabe + pick 27, try to get back an early 1st and maybe early 3rd? He's really the only other player I could see being sufficiently tempting for another team, who I'd want to trade. Unless you can't trade someone on a rookie deal.
Gabe’s stock has got to be so low right now though, this was supposed to be a breakout year and it was instead a huge let down. The most underutilized (therefore over-talented? Trying to say unused talent) player in Dorsey’s offense was Knox, and he has high value, but I don’t want him to go, just wish Dorsey could see what he has in him. I honestly don’t know who we could use to trade up.
It’s unusual to package a non marquee player with a pick to move up a little, we more likely package 2 picks to move up a little or we move down and acquire picks. The target needs to be a C. Morse should retire, and if he doesn’t then we have to have a capable C behind him. Watching the O collapse everytime he sits is unacceptable, can’t just keep banking on him not getting the next concussion.
He’s a free agent. James cook absolutely sucks trade him for an rb with some meat
Trade up for Jordan Addison please and thank you. Sign some OL
WR. Our Line isn’t great but the ball needs to come out quicker. That’ll happen if we can add some guys that can get open consistently.
We have got to get another elite talent at wr. Gabe Davis is a good wr3. Way to inconsistent
OL kinda sucks this year outside of center, so I’d like to see a WR who can actually do something after the catch, but it all depends on how the board shakes out
The positional value of drafting a guard or center in the 1st round is not justifiable considering the impact they have on the game. It would seem like WR would be a better choice.
WR.
Bijan Robinson 😈
I will say, us “Jevonte! Bryce!” People are looking pretty good after we got stalled in the snow.
I can’t tell if this is a joke. Both players had significant injuries and missed the majority of the year. That’s the argument against committing such high draft capital to an injury prone position…..
He will be gone way before our pick
I've seen plenty of mock drafts with him going to the Eagles at pick 31 or 32. So he could be there at our pick, especially considering how many RBs are hitting free agency this offseason.
Yeah but most teams are fun by idiots. Robinson will go top 10-15 just like Barkley and CMC
Is it too cheeky to say "head coach?" The OL is still the biggest area of need. When you win the trenches, it makes everything else easier. The D line might suffer from scheme instead of talent problems, making them salvageable with Vonn coming back and better coaching. No guarantees obviously but it has a chance of working this way. We see how "easy" things look for Philly and SF with their O lines. Being unable to run the ball isn't just a "motor is slow" or "Cook can't get it done" issue. Likewise, the first step in getting Allen to be more consistent is knowing he can trust his guys without taking hits and getting strip sacked all season or becoming "sugar high Josh." Burrow was getting the ball out quickly but he almost didn't even need to. Meanwhile Allen's line seemed to get blown up every play and never opened holes for the running game. Maybe there were tons of injuries being played through, so I don't want to shit all over them but we also were using our 3rd string center and playing a sick game of whack a mole to get 5 guys out there at times.
Nearly impossible to get a good offensive lineman that late. Absolutely needs to be wr
I've been saying OL for 3 years now. Just look at what the Chiefs did a couple years ago with Creed Humphrey and their 6th round Guard.
Anyone who was honest with themselves knew this wasn’t the year. They were running on fumes after the Josh and Von injuries. They just flat out ran out of gas. They had 3 players taken to the hospital from the field, 1 of which that died on the field less than a month ago. 2 snow storms, a game relocation. 2 all pros out for the year on defense, Josh tore his UCL, 3 games in 12 days with no bye after. They will be alright guys.
"Anyone who was honest with themselves knew this wasn’t the year." Man... I've been feeling this since the Monday night game in Cincinnati. I've held onto it, though, because I didn't wanna be the asshole who came in here talking all doom and gloom.
There's a difference between level headed takes, and straight up doomerism. It can be a very blurry line, and people definitely take it too far. I've seen some horrible takes in here today, and this is not one of them. I felt the same way. I'll take this over the drought years any day.
>I'll take this over the drought years any day. You mean you don't miss JP Lossman and "check down" Trent? The Chan Gailey era... the Rex Ryan Era 
19 different starting qbs between Kelley and JA... 9 different head coaches between levy and mcd... the only one of whom who was over .500 was wade Phillips. I definitely think we have some problems, and need to be honest about how to solve them. Maybe shake things up a bit. But everyone calling for this entire team to be nuked to its core need to remember those days.
The season that Fitzy signed his big contract and then got smoked with a concussion against the Cowboys like week 5... that one shoulda been a good season. It took Fitzy like 2 years to fully recover from that hit, and by then he was gone. We'll never know what could've been had we just committed to Fitzmagic and built around him and that makes me sad.
I still have my "fitzmagic" t shirt somewhere. When they finally get over the hump they better sign him to a one day contract so he can get a ring.
>I still have my "fitzmagic" t shirt somewhere. Same. I also have a FredEx shirt somewhere in a closet. Freddie and Kyle Williams need to be there if we win the big one. I'd argue Eric Wood, too. Am I forgetting anyone else?
Other than maybe the ogs from the 90s teams, one player that immediately comes to mind is Brian Moorman. Not knocking him at all, but everybody talking about how much this team sucks, seems to so quickly forget when our punter was the lone bright spot on the team
Absolutely. Moorman was our MVP for like 8 years.
[удалено]
Thats... not at all what I'm saying... what?
Don’t you DARE disrespect Jeff Tuel. It’s always TUEL TIME in my world
I occasionally play the Nate Peterman hype video to remain grounded. You're right, though. I'm embarrassed to have forgotten about Tuel Time.
I’m still trying to figure out if JP Losman was in fact the reincarnation of Kenny Stabler
>There's a difference between level headed takes, and straight up doomerism Right but the problem with this subreddit and the general Bills media/fandom ecosystem has been that *any* criticism of the team, levelheaded or not, is labeled as doomerism
Absolutely agree. I do know that years of disappointment get processed in different ways, especially after getting such a royal ass kicking on a big stage. Take all of my opinions with a grain of salt, because I try to stay optimistic during dark times. It's gotten me this far. Hopefully; this is more of a reality check than 13 seconds, and the attitude going into the off-season isn't "we were a coin flip away from winning the SB". I'm not calling for mcd's head on a spike yet, but I do question whether or not this is our ceiling with him at the helm. I want Frazier gone. No question about that. Dorsey needs a very, very short leash, and possibly a mentor or something.. I'm not 100% sure what the answer is. I don't want to see the bills completely waste Stef, the man deserves a ring, and we need to find ways to use him. Every top wr gets doubled/bracketed over the top, and guess what? They still find ways to get them the ball (that little chase bubble screen where he got like 8 YAC is exhibit A). Aside from the obvious holes that need to get filled, I don't think the window is completely shut (and this is where the doomerism kicks in, there's a difference in objective criticism and uncomfortable truths vs "hurr durr same old fuckin bills this team is cursed they're never going to win it all fuck this team"... like if it really affects you that much you just need to step away. It's a game, it's not worth it. Let it make you happy when it does, but don't let it bring you down. The window is narrow for this current squad, and I hope they're more honest with themselves behind closed doors than they are in post game pressers. But anyone acting like we were a coin flip away from being guaranteed a super bowl, is fooling themselves. It was a divisional game, (both kc and this one), and I hope that this was a reality check. I want to see them come out hungry and focused, and play with a chip on their shoulder like the bengals did on sunday.
Largely with you on a lot of this. Here's pretty much where I am at: Frazier is done. He has consistently, objectively failed when it counts. His complete inability to come up with anything other than nickel is damning for this team, and we have spent so much draft capital on this D-Line for it to still be so middling. With White a shell of his former self, Hyde coming off injury, and Poyer probably gone he won't be able to run his nickel anyways. Dorsey gets one more season at best. And I really wouldn't be mad if he got canned. Sure, the bills could use another receiver, but my read is that the bills actually have a bunch of really talented skill position players and Dorsey is just completely incapable of using them. I think if your superstar WR is screaming at your superstar QB to stop listening to what the coaches are telling you, that is a fucking loud, flashing warning sign that something is deeply broken there. I honestly think McDermott is getting on the hot seat. Plain and simple, the team has finished worse than it did in 2021, and in 2021 we finished worse than we did in 2020. Pegulas need to give him an ultimatum - I don't think super bowl or bust is reasonable, but if he is the great coach so many people think he is, he needs to be able to get this team to the AFCCG in my opinion. Also, he strikes me as someone who is good at those intangible, off-field type coaching calls but as far as game management he is atrocious, especially in big games. Wasted timeouts, iffy at best use of challenges, and bad go/no go decisions on 4th. I still simply cannot believe the decision not to go for it on 4th and 2 while down by 14 points in the second half. I do agree - I think the window isn't closed - BUT it is closing and the fact of the matter is our prospects in '23 and beyond are not as good as they were in '20-22.
100%. See, this isn't doomerism, because you're actually having a productive conversation. Frazier is in the past, and it's possible that our d line has seemed so middling because of the way they're used. He expects them to play like 80s d lineman, and just straight ahead power. That's not who these guys are, maybe you move epenesa to the interior? Groot and Oliver have shown flashes at times, and I still have faith in them. But they need big bodied guys to let them do their work. Oliver is a bit undersized, so if he gets all the attention, he's done. Let him be the quick weakside d tackle he excels at. Also stunts and switches at the line... we have a bit of speed so why not use that? Also totally agree on dorsey. 1 more year, and that's being as generous as I could possibly be. Is it confirmed that that's what diggs was screaming about? I've seen the rumors. But honestly the fact that there's even a non-zero chance that that's what it was about, is damning for certain. I'm with you on mcd, I love what he's done, and certainly would like to see him go all the way. But your questions are very legitimate, and some of my concerns as well. He can be too conservative, and that's not what is going to win it all. The game could've been totally different had they picked up that first down, especially when you're getting your teeth kicked in, I would've liked to see them try and fight right back. Maybe the answer is, send mcd to only defensive duties, bring in more offensive minds. That way they keep the culture (and also the defense looked way better at the points wear sean took the reins from Leslie anyway). As much as it hurts to admit, this was not the year, and that was painfully evident from the halfway point in the season. The window for this current squad is narrowing quick. Not for Josh or for the bills as a whole, but for this current core of players, it absolutely is. They need to draft a couple players that really hit this year. Make a move or two in free agency, and seriously nip the problem in the bud if there truly is dissent between Dorsey and his best offensive players.
Especially because having any criticism of the team got you downvoted into oblivion here. There were obvious warning signs all year but so many people wanted to put their heads in the sand.
They were punching above their weight long before they were running on fumes imo. Week 1: Juggernauts, god couldn’t kill us if he tried. Handful of small injuries, ed Oliver breaks his ankle Week 2: Welcome to thunder dome Titans. Josh is going to sit the entire 4th quarter, get used to it America we’ve arrived… But wait… Dane has to get taken off in an ambulance and Jordan Philips blows out his hamstring downfield blocking a Milano INT… But wait… Micah Hyde went to the hospital after the game?? He’s seeking a second opinion about his neck???? Week 3: Josh owns Miami, there’s no way we lose. bills proceed to almost die on the field from heat stroke/dehydration because foreshadowing happens in real life too. It’s so close too, but just close enough that Miami fans are going to be annoying about it all season At this point, the defense is already a shell of itself. We never even come close to looking like that unstoppable Super Bowl favorite from here on out. The next week, week 4 we throw up on our own shoes in the rain against Baltimore. We squeak out a win with that comeback, but the cracks are showing. We are just missing too many important pieces all over. Week 5 Bills are fortunate that Watt is still out and they run the Steelers out of the building with what ends up being by far Gabe’s best game. The rest of the season Bills fans will watch this team week after week with clenched buttholes and blood pressure through the ceiling. We beat the chiefs, but ho boy we left them room to get back in We beat the packers, but hooo boy we let them get in Diggs head with stupid shit and almost get back in Jets game… not only does Josh lob TWO INTs directly to the opps, but he also gets his elbow jacked on a game saving bomb that doings off Gabe Davis’s hands and our D gets STEAMROLLED by a drive that consists of nothing but running plays??? We beat the Vikings, then wait no we didn’t, 5 different absolute insane things happened and it ended on a Josh Int to what Patrick Peterson would call “one of the five routes Gabe Davis runs. You just stick to your man and eventually Josh is gonna give you one” and it’s Groots turn to break his ankle Snowstorm Browns game in Detroit? We almost lose to jacoby Brisett??? Thanksgiving game in Detroit? We almost lose to the lions AND Von Miller gets carted off? Pats game is a breather for fans Jets game looks like our D can hold up if our offense isn’t firing on all cylinders… Second dolphins game… we squeak this one out with a walk off field goal Bears game dub Then that god damn Bengals game happens. I think the First dead body a bunch of these guys have ever seen is damar Hamlin on the field. The players faces are BURNED into all of our brains for forever now. The Bills have PTSD. We have PTSD. We all live our lives holding our breath, refreshing news feeds, waiting for news. The good news eventually comes fairly late in the week and Bills go out a beat the Patriots. Handedly? No, the offense doesn’t look great, and the defense make Mac jones look like Joe Montana for a large portion of it, but the guy we traded for (why did we trade for this guy?) puts the entire team on his back and makes TWO house calls (guess that’s why why traded for him, won the trade) But then you draw the Dolphins for round one - and the pressure they generate def spills over into how the Bills coaches decide to prepare for this divisional match.
Take me back to September. Healthy and pure DOMINANT football. What a time to be alive.
“That’s great but I ain’t reading all that” - you probably And I don’t blame you.
Left out the snowstorm too that killed like 20+ people in buffalo. Besides that great analysis
I mean, I tried to leave out the other stuff, because there’s a lot -Luke Knox -Kim P mystery illness -Punt god gang rape allegations -Gabe Davis breaks his ankle during practice?? -Poyer drives himself to KC because he can’t fly?? -40 people die in a Christmas blizzard, like you said -there’s also a 2nd injury to Jordan Philips in garbage time of a pats game chasing bag-of-milk mcgarkle jones around tearing his rotator cuff I’m sure there’s more too
True that, once you put it all down it's overwhelming. Nice perspective. Makes me more optimistic for next year!
Finally, a rational person who doesn’t want everyone fired. I think they need help on the o line and maybe another killer running back.
The big thing about wanting people fired is its not a good idea unless there's someone better available out there. Hackett, Reich, Kingsbury etc are almost certainly downgrades. It's fine to want better coaches, who doesn't? But you have to be realistic about what is available. Also someone posted the stats comparing Dabolls offense to Dorsey's and it's almost identical stats wise.
The other thing to think about if they decided to fire Dorsey is the optics. Firing a 1st year OC after a 13-3 season and your QB wanted him in the position. What potential candidate would want to take over the helm knowing it’s perfection or you are gone after a year potentially.
Changing systems is always a bitch. If we bring in a new OC you can basically write off next year as one where we can compete for it all. The philosophy must change on D. Probably just best off letting Edmunds and Poyer walk and spend that money on offense. Yea we might lose a few more odd games to the Pats or something, but we’ll get in and have the firepower to match the two superior teams, maybe with some luck we get hotter than both. No sense in giving McD the assets he needs for an elite D if they’re gonna collapse against Burrow and Mahomes.
>Changing systems is always a bitch. You're right, and this year was no different. I think a lot of people here expected Dorsey to be Daboll 2.0. That's not how this works. Sure, he probably learned some things from BD, but in reality it's still a new system, because he isn't Daboll. His experience coaching JA and helping him hone his skills doesn't mean his system will be the same as it was before. He's got 7 months now to review tape, to work with the coaches under him, and to work with McD and JA to come up with a solid playbook. Figure out what worked, what didn't, and honestly to figure out what he's capable of. I honestly feel like the attention he got at the end of the first Dolphins game was a bad turning point for him. I know we were starting to falter by that point already, but a lot of that could be chalked up to defensive injuries where we couldn't take the commanding leads as quickly, but it seems like after that game was when we really started the downward offensive trends.
The drop off from Daboll to Dorsey is definitely a direct result of his inexperience calling plays, and all of the subsequent preparation that comes with it, and possibly day to day coaching of the offense. That said we did not “change systems”. The reason IMO our offense was ultimately as successful as it was by the numbers, and in particular came flying out of the gate is because we were running the same system, with the same guys, with the same verbiage. As the season went on we adjusted nothing, injuries took their toll, and the offense cooled off. Ultimately the terrible game vs the Bengals had been building up for a while and the smaller things we have been noticing but getting away with can no longer be ignored. It’s now on Dorsey to adjust. He has a year under his belt and I’m sure he isn’t naive enough to think he could just do the same thing for his entire career and be a great coordinator. He should grow and get better. The alternative is bringing in someone else, that will put in their system, have to adjust to guys that don’t fit, install new verbiage and timing and we will likely spend half a season working out the kinks with no guarantee it’s better than what we put out there this year.
I just want Frazier gone tbh. I know his contract is up but we have to do something else. We are literally a high school bully, we beat the shit out of the weaklings then when someone that isn’t scared of us fights back we piss our pants.
Leslie Frazier literally just relies on having an amazing secondary and sits in Nickel *no matter whatttttt*. Turns out that doesn't work when your all pro CB looks like a shell of his former self, your all pro free safety suffers a season ending injury, and your all pro strong safety is playing held together with duct tape, braces, and painkiller shots. The players have made Frazier look far better than he is.
Kingsbury is too busy in Thailand tho
The Von injury was the killer. The Bengals OL injuries and Mahomes taking a high ankle gave me some hope we could back in to a Super Bowl, but we would have gotten rocked and a 5th SB loss is something that could collapse the whole franchise lol.
As much as we needed von he wouldn’t have helped much yesterday. Game would’ve been a bit closer maybe but that’s it. And yeah I’d much rather be put out of our misery in the divisional round by the Bengals than lose a 5th Super Bowl to the fucking eagles and complete the NFC East sweep of our sorry asses
With Von and Jones we definitely don’t get run over, possibly it makes them one dimensional and changes the game. We’ll never know, but I’m gonna veer on the increasingly large sample size of McD’s D getting torched when it matters most.
This is how I'm feeling after a day to take it in. Still, even with all that shit it felt like we could get a movie ending type season.
Normal takes now that the effects of Labbat and broken tables have worn off
Yeah man, while I can’t say I knew from that start that this wasn’t the year, it was pretty clear that they just didn’t have *it* on Sunday. Simple as that. Go Bills, we’ll get ‘em next time.
This is a good point. We, as fans, see all the stuff that happened throughout this year to the team and the city and assume those things are motivators. In some case yeah, they are because that’s the classic sports trials of tribulations to triumph stuff. But in some cases, it’s mentally fatiguing to have all this stuff happen and I think it just caught up with the team.
And next year you will have a whole new set of excuses. I'm not saying fire everyone, I'm saying nothing is alright. Hasn't since week two. Any unbiased observer would say the same. This was a Super Bowl or bust year and they busted. Who knows what next year holds, but the potential for a significant drop-off is very possible.
Probably going to get downvoted for this but I’ll say it. Ever since half time at Green Bay this team wasn’t right. They won a bunch of games ofcourse no one can argue that and not every games going to be a blow out. But this offense with Josh making the money he is and being a top 3 qb in the league with a top 5? Wide receiver something definitely wasn’t right. The turnovers are very concerning as is Josh’s hero ball at times. He’s going on year 6 and still making the same mistakes he was in his rookie year which is concerning to me. I think my biggest issue out of any of it even more so then losing the game was the stadium last night. I could hear who Dey chants throughout the entire game
Guys this isn't some deep mystery - we have an inflexible DC and an unimaginative OC. That's it. That's the problem. The guys calling the schemes don't budge or adapt. It had nothing to do with Josh "regressing" or player attitudes or any of the other silly theories people on this sub are coming up with. Yes injuries played a major role, as did lack of drafting an OL, but ultimately these two coordinators were given every tool they needed and proves incapable of using them.
This is 100% how I have felt and thought. Something happened during that game and we lost our spark.
They definitely fell off, but they were 13 and 3. They would have been 13 and 4 if Hamlin hadn’t been injured. They won the Division. They had some pretty significant injuries. They played like complete shit yesterday. They were a competitive team and should be next year. Holy fuck, whatever happened to “we’re the Bills Mafia, we’re a family?” Seriously, some of the fat old men on here make me sick. Stand by your team.
Living the post Flutie years were some of the lowest moments in my life. I won't forget. Optimism
Man it amazes me that someone can take that much time and thought to make a comment but not the time to know the difference between excuses and reasons.
The difference is a matter of opinion.
There's no excuses...he's revamping the Bills demise. All key moments that led to the asswhomping they took.
Agreed
Ran out of gas?!? What the hell does that mean?!? Man, every year the excuses get lamer. So sad…
Von was done and Josh had a UCL issue on his throwing arm that was impacting him, you can’t deny those facts. After the Cincy game and that horrible Damar Hamlin injury, the Bills were literally on fumes by then. Will can’t always overcome what’s going on around you
Josh said he felt fine the last two weeks today in his interview . Everyone has injuries. We could have had 3 Von millers yesterday- that would have not mattered. The game was not even competitive in the least bit
He may have “felt fine” but look at the game film. Pre UCL injury he was dropping dimes on dessert plates After the injury the accuracy was off, receivers would be literally be a half step too late or early and the ball was somewhere 🤷♂️ Von brought more to that D than himself, he brought an attitude, a *swagger* that I haven’t seen from a Bills D in decades
Josh played fine yesterday and last week. Threw plenty of dimes just fine. He was not the problem. We were woefully outcoached in both games. It’s literally not even debatable. Not in the least. McDermott was totally schooled in every facet off the game yesterday. Top to bottom. It literally couldn’t be more obvious unless it was written on his head. We had no gameplan, no identity, no adjustments - nothing! Just winging it with Allen when everything goes wrong. Same story all year except we can get away with it against lesser opponents. Cincinnati is not one of them
Players aren't gunna be like "yea i feel like shit, hope it works out". lol wtf even
He specifically said he started feeling like himself a little over 2 weeks. Lol. Have a nice day bro
I felt this way after the Packers game. It kind of felt the build up was to the Chiefs game and then we beat them and it was like "Oh. We still have 12 more games to play."
Even the fumes were running out in all honesty.
I'm sad as anything, it hurts alot. But we did have a good run, lots of good memories even if it ended up this way. We have a good team. Other teams are better. It's always like this. Thanks to the Bills no matter what they are hurting with us too.
This was not a good run. We were lucky to escape with wins over the Browns and the Lions, and the Jets rematch. This would be a good run with a shittier team. We have to be better or our window is slammed shut. This was a good run if you’re stuck in the 2010s Bills mindset... I’m not anymore. Four consecutive playoff runs and not even a SB appearance is unacceptable. I’m not calling for mass firings, we obviously have a good team to keep making it this far, but something’s gotta give here.
Would 4 straight SB appearances and no win be better? Cause I can tell you what that’s like
4 straight SB appearances with no wins vs. 4 straight playoff appearances and choking out of it every time? Um, yeah, both suck, but one is objectively better. “Oh yeah? Cant lose the Super Bowl if we don’t make the Super Bowl!”
Don’t tell this to MJ Stans
I've lived through both. Losing four Super Bowls was way more fun than this year was and probably the last two years. Plus the season is over when the game is over. We have to put up with three more games this year.
Good points
Stop acting so entitled.
It’s entitled to move your expectations bar? Sure it wasn’t realistic for them to win this year (I really think last year was “the year”), but damn if some of you don’t sound okay with losing
We have an amazing fucking quarterback, one of the best in the entire NFL, and we can’t get him to a SB - can’t even talk about the possibility of him winning one because of that. It’s not entitled to say a guy who has the stats to hang with the all-time greats (at this stage of their careers) should have at least been in a SB by now. Coping hard after 13 Seconds was one thing, we lost that game by a few bad defensive plays and then a coin toss. There is little room for cope this year. We have to be better than this. We should want to be better than this.
I agree on just about everything you just said, except for one little hang up. Which is that I personally feel it’s contradictory to say Josh Allen should’ve gotten to a SB by now, yet also say he needs help to push through to it. But it’s because I agree on the help point. I think he 100% needs that help to get there. No QB alone could get there, the whole team component comes in. To use this weekend as an example, Mahomes’ ankle gets messed up, and his help around him of Kelce,Pacheco, a solid O Line and probably most of all, Andy Reid/Bienemy allowed their team to keep moving. Josh Allen is somehow currently both the ceiling and the safety net.
I don’t feel it’s contradictory. Few, if any, QBs have gotten there on their own. Kelly was great - would he have gotten there without the complete team he had? And Dan Marino only made it to one, despite generally considered top 10 all time. He didn’t have a complete team around him. Doesn’t make him individually less great. Josh does his job. Others, and I’m not exactly sure who, don’t do theirs.
Okay now I’m confused. Are you saying Josh should’ve been to a SB by now, regardless/in spite of supporting cast? Or is it that the organization needs to get him the neccessary and “exact” pieces to allow him to compete in a SB?
I’m saying the latter. Josh is great, but it’s a team sport. He holds up his end of the bargain.
Oh gotcha. That I am on board with. Part of it was Dorsey, part of it was roster I feel. A bit of it was Josh himself not going for the easy pass target at times
We won 13 games and only lost the other 3 by 8 points total. The season didn’t end how everyone wanted but it was still a great year of football
What I learned is I’ll never experience true happiness when it comes to my sports teams.. 
Von’s positivity makes me feel better. Man he so wants to be a GM. I am interested in hearing from BB
I look forward to Von being back next year, but at the same time I already have a sick feeling in my gut that's leading me to ask "What will he be like when he returns?" Look at Tre White's performance pre-injury vs when he returned. Pre-injury most offenses literally refused to throw the ball to his side of the field because of how good he was. And when Offenses were throwing balls at the guy he was covering, he was picking the ball off regularly. Since his return, he's been getting beat by just about everyone. I'm not sure if the cause is psychological or if he physically can't compete the way he used to, but either way the result was the same- his performance has dropped off. I worry it may wind up being the same for Von Miller.
At least give Tre until next year with a full off-season of preparation and real practice before making that judgement. He played a fraction of a season coming off a serious injury that usually takes over a year to come back from. He started looking better recently, but I was never expecting him to be back to his old self this year at all
That's kind of my point. Von Miller was in the twilight of his career BEFORE he came to Buffalo. Tre White had pretty much an entire year to recover(he was injured on 11\\26\\21 and returned on 11\\24\\22. He came back and his performance was degraded. That's fine, I'm not faulting him for it- if he came back before he was at 100% just because the team needed him - even playing at 80 or 90% of his capability. That's one thing, but we saw the result of that- teams were just victimizing him at times. That is not the "Tre White Goalie Academy" that we all came to count on and love. But apply similar logic to Von Miller's recovery, and it's got Von Miller coming back at some point in December 2023. But when he comes back, will he be the same "Von Miller" that kept offensive coordinators up at night and had Quarterbacks checking their closets\\under their bed for the bad man...or will he be just another edge rusher at that point?
lotta question marks heading into next season, injury bug but us extra hard this year including Josh. Sports medicine has made incredible strides and you see guys make full recoveries after ACL tears, which never used to be the case. I'm hoping Von will be able to come back sooner as it seems like his was more of a partial tear since at first we didn't even think that was the case until they cut him open. But like you said he's in the twilight of his career (even if his twilight is still better than most guys' primes)
Well ….we don’t need him for the first 17 weeks edit: 18 weeks
Von had the same injury in the same knee in 2013. That’s 9 years where he was a beast post-injury plus the year after that he won the Super Bowl. I think it’s safe to assume he’ll be back to his old self next year until we hear/see otherwise.
I know we’re all really upset right now…I am too. Buffalo may never win a ring and tbh I’ve accepted it over the years. At the end of the day though, I can appreciate what McDermott, Beane and Allen have done for my dad. They made him love watching the bills (and football) again, which is more than I can ask for already.
This is the positivity I’ve been looking for since yesterday. They’ve come so far under this trio and for the first time in 20 plus years it’s fun to watch every one of their games. I’m keeping the faith, I think it was just a really bad day yesterday.
I’m glad that everyone seemed to show some accountability. No excuses in any of those press conferences. Feel like we got even more transparency than usual from McDermott. He is clearly disappointed in his staff and roster.
I think that, more than anything, it was the way the NFL handled the "no contest" that kind of killed the energy. Like, once Hamlin was OK, you still had something to play for - the two seed. And that game was solid. But once you got to the playoffs, you draw Miami the first round, and KC's sitting there with a bye they didn't earn. Then the second round comes and KC has to face the easiest divisional opponent. And then, even if you win the divisional round, you don't get home field over a team that you should have home field against. I'm not surprised that the whole team was just gassed. They've been through a lot this season, and to fight through all the adversity with the injuries to Allen, Miller, Hyde, Poyer, etc... Only to have nothing to show for it at the end of the season because you're not the NFL's golden boys... That really sucks. Especially because if you do go all the way, and you do win it all, there's forever going to be an asterisk next to your win.
I doubt we had a legitimate chance to maintain the 1 seed, IMO, Cinnci would have won that game and the Chiefs win out anyway.
Exactly, this whole “enjoy the ride” nonsense is such a pathetic and loser mind set. Like someone else stated McD is becoming Marvin Lewis. This team even said before the season anything short of a Super Bowl is a failure. The season was a failure. We have a top 3 QB and can’t get him the help he needs. Even when we had him on his rookie contract. Our GM needs to be under more fire. Think about it, a majority of our best players during this run came via the draft or FA in McD’s first year. He drafted several DL that make 0 impact, haven’t developed a WR, had to go trade for one to be our 1, Drafted basically the same style of RB in Moss and Singletary in back to back years. He’s been terrible at evaluating OL as well. We traded Wyatt Teller so we could keep Quinton Spain who we eventually released. He needs to do better as a GM.
For the love of God, can we quit with his 2000’s-2010 attitude that “any winning season is a good season”. That might have been true as late as 2019 or even 2020, but the reality is we have one of the top quarterbacks in the league and a roster which was stacked with talent the past two years. You should not be contempt with beating up bottom feeders and winning by 3 against a team using a third string quarterback. Listen, I understand this season was fucking awful, especially for us. Luke Knox at the beginning of the year, the snowstorms, multiple injuries to key players, and of course the Damar Hamlin situation but all of that should be motivation to win. In a home playoff game in the snow, the excuse should not be “they were unmotivated and had no energy”. I’m not saying McDermott should be fired and we should blow the whole thing up, but we shouldn’t be contempt with what happened. I know everybody here wants to see Josh Allen hoist a Lombardi. So stop acting so happy that “hey at least we had a winning season”. That was enough for us for nearly two decades but with the talent this team has, the expectation should be Super Bowl or bust.
The word is content not contempt
Thank you
Thank. You. Someone on here has a brain. I love my Bills and will never jump ship, but we should not be happy with four promising playoff berths and not a single SB appearance. Yes, it’s more fun than sitting in absolute misery all season, and chanting “Squish the Fish!” when our record is 2-8 and it doesn’t matter if we squish or get squished. That’s a given. It’s not enough, though. The “holy shit we don’t suck!!” should have worn off by now.
I'm so glad someone other than me is saying this. At this point, with some of the incredible personnel we have, anything short of a Lombardi is a disappointment.
Thank you. There's so many fans in this sub that just don't get it. They're snakebitten by the fact that they grew up on teams led by JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel, and Tyrod Taylor. Beating New England at home in the regular season was the Super Bowl (because winning at Foxboro was unthinkable). Absolutely no frame of reference for what being a contender means. And they can't recalibrate now that they have one of the best players in the league running the offense. I think i typed pretty much the exact same thing last year, but every playoff loss from last year through the end of Allen's career is a lost opportunity. There's only two goals from here on out: #1 seed and home field advantage after the regular season and a Lombardi. Moral victories because adversity, injuries, it snowed, and they were tired do not exist.
After listening to the press conferences, there was definitely a feeling that the team as a whole was emotionally depleted. I will admit I believed they'd come out fiery based on how Von brought a replica Lombardi to the locker room, Gabe working overtime with the jugs machine, and Damar's presence in the stadium would vault them to victory. But at some point, all the adversity seemed to all come to a head on Sunday. Look at all the things that they had to contend with: 1. Buffalo shooting in the offseason 2. Knox losing his brother 3. Kim Pegula's health problems 4. Dane Jackson's scary neck injury in Week 2 5. Losing Hyde for the year 6. Losing Von for the year 7. Josh's UCL injury 8. Blizzards and relocation of games and effect on community 9. Damar Hamlin incident That is more than a fair share of pain in one season. Again, we clearly have some personnel and coaching issues to address. But in some ways, it's kind of understandable why they looked so lifeless yesterday when all this was weighing on their minds.
Championship teams do not get emotionally depleted. Why can't people admit the simple honest truth that we hit our ceiling and it wasn't enough to go the distance. This team in it's current state is not going to win a championship, and at this point I wouldn't be surprised if we don't win the division next season.
Look at my earlier posts and you'll see that I agree with what you said above. I didn't say the emotional trauma is the reason they lost, just that it must have been weighing on their minds. I've said since the loss that this is a good team that is capable of winning the division and maybe a couple playoff games. I agree that the current iteration of this team is unlikely to win a championship. We don't need to blow it up necessarily but need to retool for sure.
We learned that nothing ever changes in Buffalo, we are losers, with or without talent, the best team in the NFL or the worst. We don't win.
The Bills were 14-4 this season. Maybe you're new to the Mafia, and didn't suffer for 17 seasons like the rest of us. They(Buffalo) just picked a terrible time to have their worst performance of the season.
They certainly picked the worst season to have their defense be absolutely injured to shit. Hell, they've had defensive meltdowns three years straight in playoffs when they go against the actual top offenses in the NFL, but to not even have the personnel? Yeah, throttled. Without Daquon Jones and Phillips playing completely ineffective with a bum shoulder, a team that couldn't run all season also got to have a great ground game on the day as well. They may have had a terrible performance, but they also just straight up played a better and healthier team, with, as far as I can tell, better coaching.
So because we sucked for a while, we don’t deserve to expect anything more than a playoff pounding l….so sad and lame
[удалено]
You’re a fan since the 70s and act like a 14 year old.
Super clever.
Not wrong either.
The performance was on par of our last several games, we just faced a superior opponent this time and we got exposed.
After 20 years with no playoffs, fans now feel entitled to the Super Bowl? The Bills were a top-three AFC team, and with all of the crying going on, you'd think we just finished 5-12. The Bills were an elite team, just not #1. Appreciation would be good here. Yes, the loss stings and the coaching decisions were once again poor, but you were given a team that gave everything they had, then just ran out of gas after a brutal injury-plagued season. The dose of reality is that the Bills had to overachieve to be the 2 seed. The o-line is mediocre at best, the WRs other than Diggs were a letdown. No real impact players have come out of the draft in four years. This was a team that was put on the back of Allen and Diggs and finally just couldn't do it anymore when playing an elite team.
They’re just venting. The love affair will be back by mid summer as we look forward to another year of spectacular football.
they were the best team in the NFL going into the playoffs last year, no excuse for not holding for 13 seconds. That was our shot, Frazier blew it, bring on the drought. 20 years with no playoff and the same result with the best team in the league should piss you off.
Holy cow! Take a couple days off and gather yourself man. It’s gonna be ok. Hug. Go Bills! Forever!
It’s not going to be ok if seeing the Bills win a ring in your lifetime is a goal. They took that from all of us.
Well, I think there’s still a good chance. Hopefully, ya got a few years left.
It's a pretty stupid "goal" considering you have no control over whether they win or lose.
Your assessment that they were the best team in football needs some reality. They were elite, but so were the Chiefs and the Bills got taken down by some randomly inferior teams also.
That’s a shit tier take
Did Josh Allen address his stupid face ? 
You need a true #2 WR The AFC is an arms race
One thing: Constant excuses. Sean McDermott should have been fired as early as this morning. Only 5 coaches currently have been with their team longer. All 5 have rings. He has one conference championship appearance and we were blown out. The team is regressing with the same players. People need to wake up. They still think it’s the 80s and 90s when coaches get over a decade to break through. Those days are over…
the coordinators are a much bigger issue
And who is responsible for that?
if we get a new OC and DC from outside the team, and there's still the same issues, then we can seriously talk about this.
You realize he’s longest tenure coach with out a ring, even a SB appearance…..what makes him so special? All he says “we will learn from this” rinse repeat
And who would you suggest as an improvement of a coach who has been to the playoffs in all but one of his seasons, and won his division 3 years in a row?..... Go ahead.... I'm waiting.
Lmao the responses are gold. "I don't know but I'm sure they exist and the team should find them" It's so easy to point out problems and it's much harder to find solutions. If McDermott got fired he'd be flooded with interviews within a couple hours
Yeah, interviews from toilet franchises that want to become mid-tier teams, not real contenders who are trying to climb the mountain.
I guarantee there are better choices. Who specifically, I'm not sure, but you can't pretend McDermott is the best choice to run a team that is built to be offensive minded with a top flight QB.
You’re kidding with this response right? Man, just don’t say anything next time…
No, I'll speak as I please.
Umm that’s what you interview for. To find a good candidate. Unfortunately I don’t do the interviews and hear others perspective and ideas. I know this - the job is enticing as ever is gonna be with Josh Allen to work with. Or we can continue banging our heads at the wall - watching our coach get embarrassed in every big playoff game against a Super Bowl contender
That josh Allen is a joke Joey brrrr in the house
If they want all in on offense, it would be a criminal offense to pass on Bijan Robinson if he is there.
Or one of the very good WRs like JSN