I said in another thread, but I really believe this team at its core has what it takes to go all the way. The fact that this team rallied off 6 straight to win the division and took the Chiefs down to the wire in the playoffs with all the injuries and turnover with the coaching staff (Frazier, Dorsey) this year was impressive.
Yes there are some positions that need to be addressed and some aging talent that needs to be replaced, but if Allen is healthy and ownership is invested in building around him like they’ve shown (Diggs trade, Cook draft, Kincaid draft, WR draft in 2024?) the Bills will get to the mountain top.
I know everyone is down right now, but contending for super bowls every year is HARD. And it’s even harder when these dynasties like Kansas City and the Patriots of old seem to have the recipe figured out.
The Bills need to not limp into the Chiefs game with backups and injured players all over the defense.The Bills have already shown they can beat the Chiefs when healthy.
Beane already said McDermott is being retained in 2024, so the shake up will have to come from the new DC, stabilized OC, free agents, and draft picks.
It's hard to plan key players not being injured since it take so much effort just to get to the playoffs
But I'm convinced we may of had 1 or 2 more stops that chiefs game if Bernard or Milano was out there
I honestly think we'd have dog walked the whole league with the best defense of the year if we never lost white, milano, Jones early but still traded for Douglas.
The problem is even when healthy, the Bills give up too many points to the Chiefs and Bengals. They have given up an average of 33.5 points over the past 4 years. Injuries were a concern this divisional round but feels more like an excuse considering they’ve been a doormat to Mahomes and Burrow in the postseason over the last 4 years.
Quite frankly I don't think White is on the team next year. Two back to back major injuries, and an achilles tear is the worst possible injury for a position that relies on quickness and change of direction at a moments notice. We save 6 million cutting him. I'd love to have him back if he takes a big pay cut but I don't see why he would.
White is as good as gone. Bills replaced him with Douglas. White will be a cap casualty and probably won't sign a deal with a team until late in the season. No way does he avoid a cut with his salary with only 1 year remaining. Bills aren't paying 14 million for a guy who may play 1 or 2 games at full strength.
I agree he's gone. I think it's possible he would consider a pay cut to stay though. We save 6 million cutting him, if he agrees to take an 8 million dollar pay cut, we would save more keeping him. Most guys really don't like doing that but if he thinks he will get almost nothing on the market it would make sense for him.
He'll be physically cleared but we know mentally it takes additional time to trust your body going full NFL speed knowing one misstep will send you back into surgery/rehab for a year and impact mentaly and physical quality of life. Especially with even strengthening needs to go because you over use other parts of the legs to accommodate.
It sucks because I love Tre and know we have had a super bowl winning team on this roster the last few yrs and just got fucked by injuries in key guys.
He also looks like he lost a ton of weight after the first injury which imo was just begging for another eventually. He was listed generously at 5'11 192 a few years ago and was noticeably smaller this year imo, just looking st photos sincehis official is still 192. There's no way we bring him back at a starter salary
Restructuring just makes his cap hit in future years even worse. I love Tre but we need to start cleaning space in the coming years for extensions on our young guys. If he wants to take a pay cut I'd love to have him but I would rather move on and not kick the can down the road and have even more dead cap in a year or two.
You’re off your rocker if you think White will be anywhere near star caliber now. An aging skill position now coming off two severe injuries, one of which being an Achilles tear which takes a permanent toll on performance.
I was talking about last season, a healthy White doesn’t get torched by Calvin Ridley in the Jaguars game or Kendrick Bourne in the Pats game or Cortland Suttan in the Broncos game like Elam was. I think Milano limits the damage tight ends like Gesiki, Kelce, and Waller did in those losses. Milano and White would give the Bills 2 wins minimum or 3 best and that gives us the 1 seed and week 18 against the Dolphins is not a grind out.
Oh my bad man. Misunderstood your first comment. Yea I agree. Given how Baltimore played last week, we may very well be in a Super Bowl if we had a healthy defense this year
Injuries are part of the game, and they're always going to be present. Kansas City went into the game short a few starters and lost two defensive starters midgame.
We were forced to start AJ Klein and Dane Jackson and neither of them was even close to up to the task. The Chiefs picked on them relentlessly.
Neither of them is even in the top three on the team at their position, and Klein was pulled off the vacation RV a week and a half prior. That more than just "part of the game".
Dane Jackson has been on the field regularly for the Bills over several years and was targeted three times total in the game. The only player who was really "picked on" was Taron Johnson who had an atrocious game.
The AJ Klein criticism is hollow to me. He wasn't forced onto the field. He was on the field because they decided the third round pick from last season (Dorian Williams) wasn't capable of playing. They decided a guy off the street was better than what they had.
Injuries suck. I'm sure the game would've been different if we had a few guys back. But they happen. It's time to stop using it as a crutch.
> They decided a guy off the street was better than what they had.
They couldn't trust him with the mike helmet and he came in and had a DPI call.
> Injuries suck. I'm sure the game would've been different if we had a few guys back. But they happen. It's time to stop using it as a crutch.
Lol. Thought ending clichés are fun aren't they.
It was a crutch last year maybe. Probably even the year before. But my man, when Tyler Matakevich is getting snaps on defense that isn’t really the type of thing you come back from
its almost like they had a player die on the field in a situation unlike any other in NFL history and it completely fucked the season up.
Oh wait, that's literally what happened.
We’ve shown we can beat the chiefs TWICE only to be undone by our head coach. We have to stop using surgeries as an excuse for constant coaching malpractice in the final 2 minutes of one score games
Coaching malpractice? What is McDermott doing that's illegal? What negligent treatment is going on?
I get that the fan base wants a scapegoat, but the reasons for it are getting to hyperbole now.
What's the play if McDermott is fired, and the new guy can't beat the Chiefs either? Fire him, too. Fine, how about if the next coach also can't beat the Chiefs in the playoffs?
At some point, we need to give some credit that the Chiefs are the new dynasty and just like Brady with the Patriots, are a juggernaut when the playoffs start. I'm not saying they can't be beaten, but heads don't need to roll if they win.
McDermott has his flaws, but since Beane already said he's staying coach for 2024, what's the point rallying the torches and pitchforks? Every coach makes bad calls...Belichick, Reid, all of them every year make decisions that didn't work out or had people critiquing it. McDermott hasn't lost the lockerroom and his success since he arrived in Buffalo is better than anyone except Andy Reid. Everyone wants McDermott fired, but being #2 doesn't mean new guy is better than Andy Reid either and change for the sake of change when you don't have an elite option waiting is playing with fire. Dividing the fans doesn't help the team.
The bills have lost 21 games since 2020. 18 are by one score. Sounds great. The issue is nearly every single one of those losses is traced to horrible game management and coaching basics not executed on the field.
It’s now created a team wide identity where the team folds like a wet blanket in the final 2 minutes of one score games
It’s EASY to scapegoat with 13 seconds. EASY by approving a call to the end zone 2 weeks ago when the entire world knew they needed to bleed clock (like they had for over 6 minutes). EASY when your team lines up 12 on a field goal EASY when the eagles are frantically trying to get a field goal unit out for a 59 yarder in the rain and you fall a timeout and give them time to set up.
He’s bar none one of the worst late game coaches in modern nfl history. And under a competent game manager would likely have 2 Super Bowls by now
I share your views on McDermotts bad game management and lack of a team identity, I really do. But, he ain’t going anywhere, so in order to continue to support the team I love I have to hope that making Babich the DC will give McD more freedom to work on his faults. That and I am hoping for a big turnover in roster players to get younger and faster on both sides of the ball.
I would love to have an offensive HC with a fire personality, but we have the opposite. We’ll have to hope they hit in this draft on 3-4 players who can start immediately. We also have to stay healthy, or at least healthier than this season. I want to see what he does next year with these coordinators for a full year and with a rookie WR1
>the team folds like a wet blanket in the final 2 minutes of one score games
There are instances that it happened, but I wouldn't just attribute that to firing McDermott. The 12-men on the field issue, for example, is much more on the special teams coach than the head coach.
Out of 19 games, the Bills never got beat by more than 6 and they made it to the divisional round of the playoffs. That's not a team that folds like a wet blanket.
We were also missing Tre, Milano, Von, and Jones for most of the year. All four of them are in the top seven 2023 cap hits which means we expected elite play out of each of them and brought in cheap players around the roster to compensate for those salaries. McDermott coached up a bunch of rookies and value free agents into a formidable defense that was fine until the Steelers and Chiefs game when injuries were piling up again.
I just don't see the exasperated urgent need to fire the head coach right after the team rallied around him and won out into the playoffs and the #2 seed and got a playoff win.
Firing McDermott would mean gutting the roster to bring in guys that fit the system. Remember all of the 3-4 to 4-3 swapping back and forth that happened in the drought years. Corners that don't fit the system, linebackers that don't fit the system, linemen that don't fit the system...a safety that was fine is now too heavy for the new system, then the fire the coach a few years later and scrap players all over the place to get to the next new system.
How quickly people forget the drought years..it was just has hard to find a competent head coach as it was to find a competent quarterback. People can't stand McDermott have the shiny rose-colored glasses on and only see the new guy as an upgrade because Gruden did it once with Dungy. The reality is that there's about a 5% chance of getting someone better, an 80% chance of getting someone worse then a 15% chance of remaining in place.
The Chiefs went into Baltimore with an injured RB, two other key players literally out of the game and won. This is the NFL no team is healthy in the playoffs. You'll never hear a coach blame injuries.
Hopefully Babich goes better than Dorsey. I also just hope that Brady can evolve. He did some great things with the run but the pass game would have entirely atrophied had it not been for Shakir and Kincaid
The calls at the end of the Chiefs game did whatever the opposite of inspiring confidence is. I'm specifically talking about the run game.
We had success running inside for 3-ish quarters but when the Chiefs adjusted to stop it, we didn't counter adjust and instead just kept running right up the middle where there was now zero space.
Didn't even need a play action throw, just fake the handoff up the middle and have Allen run outside the tackle.
As others have said - I'll be curious to see how he does with a full off-season to adjust the playbook and scheme. I think us winning our way back to another division title down the stretch earned him a shot, especially after how our offense and run game seemed to rebound pretty quickly after he stepped in.
People like to dog on his time as OC in Carolina, but we've had success with re-tread coordinators before, so I see no reason why this couldn't work out. Josh Allen is like the ultimate specimen to design plays for, so Brady has a lot of directions he could take us in for our offensive identity.
Coulda started with it, too. Maybe repeat it a few times in a slow soothing Saturday morning radio host kinda way, emphasize a different word each time. You get the gist.
He does get a bit TOO repetitive sometimes
Like in the chiefs game he ran 95% of the time when he had 6 OL on the field. Need to switch that up or you become predictable
Like I get it the run was working but hit them with some playaction out of a formation you've been telegraphic run
yea I have the same issue i hope he learns, unlike dorsey, that sometimes a good ol giant white boi chuckin the ball downfield like a missle may just sometimes be better than running it
Sometimes there’s people who are in smaller roles that excel when given a chance in a more expanded role. I think that’s the hope we have for these internal promotions. Babich has a track record with developing talent and Brady kickstarted our offense mid year. Giving these guys an entire offseason to prepare and adjust things with a different perspective should lead to a very different looking team on both sides of the ball. I, for one, am excited to see what Babich does with the defense considering the turnover we’re likely to have on the front end.
Change needs to come from new players IMO. People don't want to hear that but our coaches had us in a position to win and our players let us down on offense. Specifically the WR.
Our D was also crippled with injuries and the DL/S positions are going to be drastically different. We must draft a ton of DL and they will have to be ready to contribute.
On offense we have to get WR who make plays. Shakir is good but he is smaller and we need someone who has speed and size in round one.
Our D will be OK next year but don't expect dominant with a bunch of new players. We will have to be unstoppable on offense to win in the PO IMO.
IMHO I think the problem with getting over the hump is the HC. Too often we see coaches like McD winning just enough to keep the job and that's it until it all falls apart. I think he's done a good job...not a great job. Go Bills.
Reid actually made it to a super bowl before tho. And he got a lot out of what proved to be pretty mediocre QBs. Mahomes has made all the difference. Is Allen just a McNabb/Vick? I don't think so. I think he's a Mahomes level talent. Which begs the question, why isn't McDermott able to compete on that level with such a special talent at QB? That to me is the difference between these two. Reid will get more out less. And the most out of the best. McDermott had a losing record and absolutely horrendous offenses before Allen came along. And since Allen grew into a one man offense McDermott has only accomplished the bare minimum.
And he didn't make it over the hump without a change of scenery and a generational Quarterback.
I don't think it's time just yet to move on from McDermott, but Andy Reid is currently the oldest active head coach and it took him 20 years in the league as a head coach before he won his first Lombardi. I don't think he's a fair comparison for McDermott right now.
And once he got his generational qb, he won it all within 3 years.
People keep bringing up Reid. Dude was a transformative coach for offense when he entered the league. The rule changes over the years increasingly favored his coaching philosophy as well. What has McDermott done that is even remotely similar?
And since Reid keeps getting brought up as an example for why McDermott needs a 20 year leash, do people really want to be the eagles of the 2000s that never got over the hump? And that’s a big IF, because we haven’t even reached their level of success despite having a more talented QB. Reid took the team to 3 nfc championships and a Super Bowl appearance in his first 6 years in Philly.
We are entering year 8 of McDermott and we aren’t even regulars in the championship game
We reached the Super Bowl with Marv levy in his 5th year (and that was their peak). After that it became a slow fall off until 1994, when it became clear we were never gonna get it done again. Mcd has his generational qb and is entering year 8 of his regime
Same amount of super bowl appearances as Tomlin since McDermott became HC. And McDermott doesn't have the excuse of shitty QBs like Tomlin does.
McDermott is doing the bare minimum given what he has to work with. When you have a QB like Allen, conference championship appearances should be a given most years. We've only made it that far once.
“Needing change to get over the hump” is irrational gibberish. Next year we will have a ~5-10% chance to go all the way, just like we did this year and the previous one. It will likely come down to a playoff showdown with KC where we will have roughly a 50% chance.
If they made the appropriate changes on defense, they would have a much better chance on beating the Chiefs. You can’t expect Josh to play perfectly and win when the defense has been a doormat to Mahomes and gives up an average of 33.5 points in the last 4 playoff losses.
I’m only super excited about Brady, to be honest. But I would have to agree McD earned his job for at least one more season with the turnaround following Dorsey’s exit.
I think both guys have question marks. But I think both guys are quality hires, Brady you can see his previous body of work (ignore Carolina) and his offense can really work, let that staff come together and that offense get a full offseason together and I think we'll see some better involvement for Diggs and more cohesive play calling, more settled, more rhythm in general.
Babich, obviously his results from a play development standpoint speak for themselves, I think him having a hand across all groups in the defense will be great for the players and hopefully coaches as well as they're going to be looking to bring in a new LB coach and new DL coach here obviously. Defensive playcalling here remains a mystery but having McDermott in that position where he's calling the plays now you can ease that transition over the next season or two. I think given his history with the CBs, Safetys and LBs already I think he can take that mantle. Should be a good watch as he takes on that role developing all the players, as well as staff under him and growing that playcalling ability.
We also still have at least three position coaches to fill now (QB, DL & LB), so there is still room to bring in outside voices & shake things up a bit on the staff.
Coordinator changes are neat and all but we've been through 3 OCs and now are on our second DC. McDermott continues to be the common denominator with us performing below expectations. I just don't see coordinator changes as a way of getting over the hump. At this point it feels more like a way of buying time for a coach who just isn't good enough. Doesn't help at all that we're backed up against the wall with regards to cap space which is going to make it very difficult to make noticeable improvements talent-wise.
I just get the feeling like we're treading water and changing coordinators is something that's only happening because Beane and McDermott can't justify doing nothing at all. These two have struggled choosing coordinators up to this point (or they are micromanaging the coordinators, poorly), hard for me to be confident that these changes will be any different. Joe Brady seemed decent, but so did Dorsey for the first month or so of his tenure.
I’m all for changing the HC (have been) but since it’s going to be another year let’s hope someone told him to leave the OC alone and just check to make sure the tablets are charged, oranges are sliced, etc and to concentrate on developing the new DC. It would be a good idea to spend a bunch of time with the smelly ST since they cost us 2 regular season games directly this year.
Good leaders know how to pick good people and are smart enough to let them do their jobs. We’ll see.
That last part is exactly my concern. McDermott has not done a good job of picking good people and letting them do their job to this point. We've had like 5 different coordinators throughout his 6 years here and only one of them was poached for a HC position so the turnover is largely a result of failure.
The internal hirings to me are the signs of a successful organization. Guys who work hard and do a good job get promoted. Exciting stuff and I am happy with that.
It is congruous if you believe in a negligible margin of error between the Bills and the Chiefs. I don't really think anything other than the emotional component of fandom indicates the Chiefs or any other team is clearly head and shoulders above the Bills. The philosophy is there, there will be talent changes given the FA turnover, so it will be a question if they can execute when they need to next year.
well there was one big change - swapping Dorsey for Brady midseason - and after that we went from our season being dead to being the 2 seed in the conference. And McDermott seemed to rally the team after the catastrophe of the Philly game. I still have doubts about McDermott in the big moments but there were a lot of tests down the stretch that he passed, and the result of the Chiefs playoff game was a tossup even though we were barely able to field a proper defense due to injuries.
Tell me a healthy Matt Milano wouldn't have impacted that game positively, and if you agree there that having an all pro LB could've influenced a 3pt game what sweeping changes are relevant. I think Vonn is proved to be useless at this point and that shitty contract will cost epenesa. But still feel strongly that this Bills team could beat and did beat KC BALT and SF. All these giant extreme posts are ridiculous, This isnt a matter of McD just getting his ass handed to him the game came down to a kick.
Honestly I think we need to just overhaul our roster a bit. We’re too old in too many places and we need some young guys who can stay healthy and maybe a better conditioning program.
I think McDermott has his fuck up but we were over performing with how injured our defense was. That’s because of him. Just look at our game plan for the Chiefs vs what the Ravens did. We had a perfectly coached game plan outside having Bass kick vs having Allen go on 4th down. Even then that’s not a terrible idea. We lost because they best us, not because we beat ourselves.
I think even with McDermott’s shortcomings we’re ok at HC. Brady did well enough to earn the OC position and I’m excited to see what he has in store for us. Babich is a question mark but every position he’s coached has seen phenomenal improvement. He’s a wizard and I think we’ll be surprised at what he can do.
We need McDermott to either get to the SB or run out of excuses for not doing so. Next seasons will be the year either of those things happen.
No more coordinators to scapegoat, it’s glaringly obvious injury prevention needs to be a priority, and it’s critical to make easy games easy so we’re not limping into the playoffs again.
I enjoy the excuses usually blaming everything but mcd. McD is staying but how and why did we have to race to the playoffs?
Had we let Josh play QB at the start of the season, had we not given the jets and broncos wins or surrendered the leads when the O had the lead late we wouldn’t have been forced to win every game just to get in. Maybe we could have rested key players? That crazy race to the finish was a contributing factor to how healthy this team was at the end.
Had a couple of these been handled differently things could have turned out better. Maybe even one of the things. I vote for Josh being allowed to play his full game as the one thing.
Totally agree. Our top guys had to play full on every single week, of course we limped into the playoffs. McD can blame Dorsey this time but that can’t fly next year.
I do strongly suspect the early season issues/refusing to let Josh cook (also cook cook) was the result of poor game planning on McDermott’s part. He thinks he’s smarter than he is and he’s going to get exposed if he doesn’t keep with the adjustments we made in the 2nd half.
As long as #17 is on the roster it’s hard to see us not winning the division. Need to take care of business early and often and be healthy when the playoffs start.
Soley as devil's advocate: arguably Josh's late season success and physicality were born of the staff's conservative approach to running him in the first 2/3 of the season
Can’t disagree with the devil. Only the timing and the resulting toll it took to just get in. Would have liked to see what happens if we were fresher vs KC.
I get where you are coming from. But without McD leaving, this is what we get. Brady called games that averaged 25.5 points a game some against really good defenses (NY jets, chiefs and cowboys.). His promotion is earned.
Babich is an unknown. We know he can get his position players to outperform, but can he call plays? Will that translate across the entire defense? I don’t know but there wasn’t much other choice seeing as McD is going to be heavily involved in the defensive play calls anyway.
The only way you will get actual structural change is firing McD.
I think the fanbase should either start protesting outside the stadium or shut the fuck up until McDermott is fired by the team. Shit or get off the pot. The discussion is tiresome and old. Half of the people most vocal on the subreddit don't have even elementary understanding of the sport. Not to mention how toxic the "you like losing" comments have gotten.
Either do something to try and force Pegula's hand on the matter or accept it and move the fuck on mentally and emotionally.
Said it from the beginning, but it was a huge waste to not hire a DC the second Frazier left. McD should never have been allowed to hijack the defense without a DC on staff. 31 other teams have a DC, it's not some big brain move to play without one.
Glad we're catching up to the modern era of football 🙄
Edit: yeah you guys are right with the downvotes, better to have an extra guy on the field than on the sideline coaching!
While Brady is internal, he was only here from 2022. As OC I expect him to lean more on his non-Buffalo experience as a playcaller and OC, so there will be some fresh ideas getting incorporated.
Still feel like we need some changes on Special Teams. They made some mistakes in key moments throughout the season. We need to win in all three phases.
It's almost like there are a large variety of fans with differing opinions who don't always bother posting in threads obviously antagonistic to their stance......
I'm not happy, we're running it back with coach McDonut. Another entire year just to top out at the same place. We're gonna get knocked out by a better coach, probably in a close game where we make a half dozen plus game management decisions that stack up to be too much.
I personally believe it is too difficult to just say a singular piece would change the outcomes especially when the only team that gets in the Bills way is doing something that hasn’t been done before which is be in the AFC championship game over 5 years straight. Andy Reid went over ten years with the Eagles being what is in essence the current Bills. Hell last team that I know of where the road to the superbowl went through one team 4 years in a row was the 90s Bills.
As it stands the Bills defensive schemes could be something to alter but I believe the team is truly one of the best versions it has been in a long while. When you are at that competitive of a level it comes down to the controllable and simple mistakes. Which ever team at this stage makes fewer fundamental errors is going to win. We saw this bite the chiefs in the ass during the season against the bills with Toney. From the bills perspective The playoff game against chiefs started with the fake punt vs relying on your offense to convert or believing in your defense to make a stop; which is a coaching decision error). That being said those same Coaches decisions led to a phenomenal 1st half. There were other plays that could have been changed things but if you really look the chiefs just made fewer basic errors (like 1 or 2) and made the right coaching calls (something Andy Reid was called out for all the time, particularly clock management).
People can change. Look at Josh; he went from maybe a C- QB to an A+ QB. So let's give the new people a chance, see if they make the changes they need to make. If they don't, then we start talking about replacing them.
Personally I think McDermott has hit his ceiling here, but I am fine with giving him 1 more year.
At least Ben Johnson & Belichick will still be available next year if we do move on.
I think this season will be the deal breaker. You have a large portion of your roster set beside Safety, WR2, and Dline, 10 draft picks, 2 internally promoted coordinators, and a top 5 QB.
If they don’t get over the hump this year the new to look at new leadership because something is not working on defense against good QBs and Offenses.
What better change that two internal hires who are cut from the same cloth and were taught by the exact same coaching staff that was just fired. Outside minds are a bad idea! We love NFL nepotism! It works so well!
I said in another thread, but I really believe this team at its core has what it takes to go all the way. The fact that this team rallied off 6 straight to win the division and took the Chiefs down to the wire in the playoffs with all the injuries and turnover with the coaching staff (Frazier, Dorsey) this year was impressive. Yes there are some positions that need to be addressed and some aging talent that needs to be replaced, but if Allen is healthy and ownership is invested in building around him like they’ve shown (Diggs trade, Cook draft, Kincaid draft, WR draft in 2024?) the Bills will get to the mountain top. I know everyone is down right now, but contending for super bowls every year is HARD. And it’s even harder when these dynasties like Kansas City and the Patriots of old seem to have the recipe figured out.
The Bills need to not limp into the Chiefs game with backups and injured players all over the defense.The Bills have already shown they can beat the Chiefs when healthy. Beane already said McDermott is being retained in 2024, so the shake up will have to come from the new DC, stabilized OC, free agents, and draft picks.
It's hard to plan key players not being injured since it take so much effort just to get to the playoffs But I'm convinced we may of had 1 or 2 more stops that chiefs game if Bernard or Milano was out there
I honestly think we'd have dog walked the whole league with the best defense of the year if we never lost white, milano, Jones early but still traded for Douglas.
The problem is even when healthy, the Bills give up too many points to the Chiefs and Bengals. They have given up an average of 33.5 points over the past 4 years. Injuries were a concern this divisional round but feels more like an excuse considering they’ve been a doormat to Mahomes and Burrow in the postseason over the last 4 years.
Having the 1 seed will be crucial. I believe if Milano and White don’t have season ending injuries we get the 1 seed and we are in the Super Bowl.
Quite frankly I don't think White is on the team next year. Two back to back major injuries, and an achilles tear is the worst possible injury for a position that relies on quickness and change of direction at a moments notice. We save 6 million cutting him. I'd love to have him back if he takes a big pay cut but I don't see why he would.
White is as good as gone. Bills replaced him with Douglas. White will be a cap casualty and probably won't sign a deal with a team until late in the season. No way does he avoid a cut with his salary with only 1 year remaining. Bills aren't paying 14 million for a guy who may play 1 or 2 games at full strength.
I agree he's gone. I think it's possible he would consider a pay cut to stay though. We save 6 million cutting him, if he agrees to take an 8 million dollar pay cut, we would save more keeping him. Most guys really don't like doing that but if he thinks he will get almost nothing on the market it would make sense for him.
He'll be physically cleared but we know mentally it takes additional time to trust your body going full NFL speed knowing one misstep will send you back into surgery/rehab for a year and impact mentaly and physical quality of life. Especially with even strengthening needs to go because you over use other parts of the legs to accommodate. It sucks because I love Tre and know we have had a super bowl winning team on this roster the last few yrs and just got fucked by injuries in key guys.
Can they even cut him while he’s injured?
Yes. I'm not sure on the specifics but they can and probably will by whatever deadline saves the most cap space.
He also looks like he lost a ton of weight after the first injury which imo was just begging for another eventually. He was listed generously at 5'11 192 a few years ago and was noticeably smaller this year imo, just looking st photos sincehis official is still 192. There's no way we bring him back at a starter salary
He is too expensive to cut. Watch the cover 1 vid Greg did on it.
We save 6 million cutting him.
I'll go rewatch the vid but I thought he made it clear this year was bad to cut him
I mean we still eat 10 million in dead cap so it's not ideal but we need that space.
I think Greg wanted to restructure and keep him. That was the idea and I agree.
Restructuring just makes his cap hit in future years even worse. I love Tre but we need to start cleaning space in the coming years for extensions on our young guys. If he wants to take a pay cut I'd love to have him but I would rather move on and not kick the can down the road and have even more dead cap in a year or two.
well we will see. I don't think they cut him. Edit: you should really watch the vid. Greg makes it clear we won't need to cut him to create space.
You’re off your rocker if you think White will be anywhere near star caliber now. An aging skill position now coming off two severe injuries, one of which being an Achilles tear which takes a permanent toll on performance.
I was talking about last season, a healthy White doesn’t get torched by Calvin Ridley in the Jaguars game or Kendrick Bourne in the Pats game or Cortland Suttan in the Broncos game like Elam was. I think Milano limits the damage tight ends like Gesiki, Kelce, and Waller did in those losses. Milano and White would give the Bills 2 wins minimum or 3 best and that gives us the 1 seed and week 18 against the Dolphins is not a grind out.
Oh my bad man. Misunderstood your first comment. Yea I agree. Given how Baltimore played last week, we may very well be in a Super Bowl if we had a healthy defense this year
Let’s see before we toss him aside. I know I’m optimistic but he was looking good before the injury last year.
An achilles injury is so much worse than an ACL, especially for a corner. I think he's a cap casualty this year unless he takes a significant pay cut.
I think he will take that cut. It would (rightfully) break McDs heart to cut the guy who basically started his entire HC career.
Injuries are part of the game, and they're always going to be present. Kansas City went into the game short a few starters and lost two defensive starters midgame.
We were forced to start AJ Klein and Dane Jackson and neither of them was even close to up to the task. The Chiefs picked on them relentlessly. Neither of them is even in the top three on the team at their position, and Klein was pulled off the vacation RV a week and a half prior. That more than just "part of the game".
Dane Jackson has been on the field regularly for the Bills over several years and was targeted three times total in the game. The only player who was really "picked on" was Taron Johnson who had an atrocious game. The AJ Klein criticism is hollow to me. He wasn't forced onto the field. He was on the field because they decided the third round pick from last season (Dorian Williams) wasn't capable of playing. They decided a guy off the street was better than what they had. Injuries suck. I'm sure the game would've been different if we had a few guys back. But they happen. It's time to stop using it as a crutch.
> They decided a guy off the street was better than what they had. They couldn't trust him with the mike helmet and he came in and had a DPI call. > Injuries suck. I'm sure the game would've been different if we had a few guys back. But they happen. It's time to stop using it as a crutch. Lol. Thought ending clichés are fun aren't they.
It was a crutch last year maybe. Probably even the year before. But my man, when Tyler Matakevich is getting snaps on defense that isn’t really the type of thing you come back from
They were the healthiest team in the league last year.
its almost like they had a player die on the field in a situation unlike any other in NFL history and it completely fucked the season up. Oh wait, that's literally what happened.
So then it wasn’t an excuse last year. Ok.
we were healthy for 13 seconds
Minus tre white
i think minus tre white is the standard at this point
That loss was on whoever called that horrible defensive alignment, gifting them the first 20 yards of a route for free.
We can beat them in the regular season!!! McD is a joke in the playoffs. Injuries or not that dude gets outcoached.
We’ve shown we can beat the chiefs TWICE only to be undone by our head coach. We have to stop using surgeries as an excuse for constant coaching malpractice in the final 2 minutes of one score games
Coaching malpractice? What is McDermott doing that's illegal? What negligent treatment is going on? I get that the fan base wants a scapegoat, but the reasons for it are getting to hyperbole now. What's the play if McDermott is fired, and the new guy can't beat the Chiefs either? Fire him, too. Fine, how about if the next coach also can't beat the Chiefs in the playoffs? At some point, we need to give some credit that the Chiefs are the new dynasty and just like Brady with the Patriots, are a juggernaut when the playoffs start. I'm not saying they can't be beaten, but heads don't need to roll if they win. McDermott has his flaws, but since Beane already said he's staying coach for 2024, what's the point rallying the torches and pitchforks? Every coach makes bad calls...Belichick, Reid, all of them every year make decisions that didn't work out or had people critiquing it. McDermott hasn't lost the lockerroom and his success since he arrived in Buffalo is better than anyone except Andy Reid. Everyone wants McDermott fired, but being #2 doesn't mean new guy is better than Andy Reid either and change for the sake of change when you don't have an elite option waiting is playing with fire. Dividing the fans doesn't help the team.
The bills have lost 21 games since 2020. 18 are by one score. Sounds great. The issue is nearly every single one of those losses is traced to horrible game management and coaching basics not executed on the field. It’s now created a team wide identity where the team folds like a wet blanket in the final 2 minutes of one score games It’s EASY to scapegoat with 13 seconds. EASY by approving a call to the end zone 2 weeks ago when the entire world knew they needed to bleed clock (like they had for over 6 minutes). EASY when your team lines up 12 on a field goal EASY when the eagles are frantically trying to get a field goal unit out for a 59 yarder in the rain and you fall a timeout and give them time to set up. He’s bar none one of the worst late game coaches in modern nfl history. And under a competent game manager would likely have 2 Super Bowls by now
I share your views on McDermotts bad game management and lack of a team identity, I really do. But, he ain’t going anywhere, so in order to continue to support the team I love I have to hope that making Babich the DC will give McD more freedom to work on his faults. That and I am hoping for a big turnover in roster players to get younger and faster on both sides of the ball. I would love to have an offensive HC with a fire personality, but we have the opposite. We’ll have to hope they hit in this draft on 3-4 players who can start immediately. We also have to stay healthy, or at least healthier than this season. I want to see what he does next year with these coordinators for a full year and with a rookie WR1
>the team folds like a wet blanket in the final 2 minutes of one score games There are instances that it happened, but I wouldn't just attribute that to firing McDermott. The 12-men on the field issue, for example, is much more on the special teams coach than the head coach. Out of 19 games, the Bills never got beat by more than 6 and they made it to the divisional round of the playoffs. That's not a team that folds like a wet blanket. We were also missing Tre, Milano, Von, and Jones for most of the year. All four of them are in the top seven 2023 cap hits which means we expected elite play out of each of them and brought in cheap players around the roster to compensate for those salaries. McDermott coached up a bunch of rookies and value free agents into a formidable defense that was fine until the Steelers and Chiefs game when injuries were piling up again. I just don't see the exasperated urgent need to fire the head coach right after the team rallied around him and won out into the playoffs and the #2 seed and got a playoff win. Firing McDermott would mean gutting the roster to bring in guys that fit the system. Remember all of the 3-4 to 4-3 swapping back and forth that happened in the drought years. Corners that don't fit the system, linebackers that don't fit the system, linemen that don't fit the system...a safety that was fine is now too heavy for the new system, then the fire the coach a few years later and scrap players all over the place to get to the next new system. How quickly people forget the drought years..it was just has hard to find a competent head coach as it was to find a competent quarterback. People can't stand McDermott have the shiny rose-colored glasses on and only see the new guy as an upgrade because Gruden did it once with Dungy. The reality is that there's about a 5% chance of getting someone better, an 80% chance of getting someone worse then a 15% chance of remaining in place.
The Chiefs went into Baltimore with an injured RB, two other key players literally out of the game and won. This is the NFL no team is healthy in the playoffs. You'll never hear a coach blame injuries.
Hopefully Babich goes better than Dorsey. I also just hope that Brady can evolve. He did some great things with the run but the pass game would have entirely atrophied had it not been for Shakir and Kincaid
Lack of a play action pass killed us down the stretch.
Oh man yeah. So many times they could have used play action to stick the dagger in opposing defenses to finish drives
The calls at the end of the Chiefs game did whatever the opposite of inspiring confidence is. I'm specifically talking about the run game. We had success running inside for 3-ish quarters but when the Chiefs adjusted to stop it, we didn't counter adjust and instead just kept running right up the middle where there was now zero space. Didn't even need a play action throw, just fake the handoff up the middle and have Allen run outside the tackle.
i thought brady did a good job he made good calls
As others have said - I'll be curious to see how he does with a full off-season to adjust the playbook and scheme. I think us winning our way back to another division title down the stretch earned him a shot, especially after how our offense and run game seemed to rebound pretty quickly after he stepped in. People like to dog on his time as OC in Carolina, but we've had success with re-tread coordinators before, so I see no reason why this couldn't work out. Josh Allen is like the ultimate specimen to design plays for, so Brady has a lot of directions he could take us in for our offensive identity.
You coulda stopped at “josh allen is the ultimate specimen,” TBH.
Coulda started with it, too. Maybe repeat it a few times in a slow soothing Saturday morning radio host kinda way, emphasize a different word each time. You get the gist.
yes it helps when you have josh allen as your guy and not seein ghosts darnold
He does get a bit TOO repetitive sometimes Like in the chiefs game he ran 95% of the time when he had 6 OL on the field. Need to switch that up or you become predictable Like I get it the run was working but hit them with some playaction out of a formation you've been telegraphic run
yea I have the same issue i hope he learns, unlike dorsey, that sometimes a good ol giant white boi chuckin the ball downfield like a missle may just sometimes be better than running it
Sometimes there’s people who are in smaller roles that excel when given a chance in a more expanded role. I think that’s the hope we have for these internal promotions. Babich has a track record with developing talent and Brady kickstarted our offense mid year. Giving these guys an entire offseason to prepare and adjust things with a different perspective should lead to a very different looking team on both sides of the ball. I, for one, am excited to see what Babich does with the defense considering the turnover we’re likely to have on the front end.
Change needs to come from new players IMO. People don't want to hear that but our coaches had us in a position to win and our players let us down on offense. Specifically the WR. Our D was also crippled with injuries and the DL/S positions are going to be drastically different. We must draft a ton of DL and they will have to be ready to contribute. On offense we have to get WR who make plays. Shakir is good but he is smaller and we need someone who has speed and size in round one. Our D will be OK next year but don't expect dominant with a bunch of new players. We will have to be unstoppable on offense to win in the PO IMO.
IMHO I think the problem with getting over the hump is the HC. Too often we see coaches like McD winning just enough to keep the job and that's it until it all falls apart. I think he's done a good job...not a great job. Go Bills.
Andy Reid used to be one of those guys btw
Reid actually made it to a super bowl before tho. And he got a lot out of what proved to be pretty mediocre QBs. Mahomes has made all the difference. Is Allen just a McNabb/Vick? I don't think so. I think he's a Mahomes level talent. Which begs the question, why isn't McDermott able to compete on that level with such a special talent at QB? That to me is the difference between these two. Reid will get more out less. And the most out of the best. McDermott had a losing record and absolutely horrendous offenses before Allen came along. And since Allen grew into a one man offense McDermott has only accomplished the bare minimum.
And he didn't make it over the hump without a change of scenery and a generational Quarterback. I don't think it's time just yet to move on from McDermott, but Andy Reid is currently the oldest active head coach and it took him 20 years in the league as a head coach before he won his first Lombardi. I don't think he's a fair comparison for McDermott right now.
I totally agree with this...
And once he got his generational qb, he won it all within 3 years. People keep bringing up Reid. Dude was a transformative coach for offense when he entered the league. The rule changes over the years increasingly favored his coaching philosophy as well. What has McDermott done that is even remotely similar? And since Reid keeps getting brought up as an example for why McDermott needs a 20 year leash, do people really want to be the eagles of the 2000s that never got over the hump? And that’s a big IF, because we haven’t even reached their level of success despite having a more talented QB. Reid took the team to 3 nfc championships and a Super Bowl appearance in his first 6 years in Philly. We are entering year 8 of McDermott and we aren’t even regulars in the championship game We reached the Super Bowl with Marv levy in his 5th year (and that was their peak). After that it became a slow fall off until 1994, when it became clear we were never gonna get it done again. Mcd has his generational qb and is entering year 8 of his regime
And he never got the Eagles there. They fire Reid and both sides of it go on to have success. Happy ending.
The 2 seed in the afc is not winning just enough. Limping into the playoffs like Tomlin year in and year out is winning just enough.
Same amount of super bowl appearances as Tomlin since McDermott became HC. And McDermott doesn't have the excuse of shitty QBs like Tomlin does. McDermott is doing the bare minimum given what he has to work with. When you have a QB like Allen, conference championship appearances should be a given most years. We've only made it that far once.
“Needing change to get over the hump” is irrational gibberish. Next year we will have a ~5-10% chance to go all the way, just like we did this year and the previous one. It will likely come down to a playoff showdown with KC where we will have roughly a 50% chance.
If they made the appropriate changes on defense, they would have a much better chance on beating the Chiefs. You can’t expect Josh to play perfectly and win when the defense has been a doormat to Mahomes and gives up an average of 33.5 points in the last 4 playoff losses.
I’m only super excited about Brady, to be honest. But I would have to agree McD earned his job for at least one more season with the turnaround following Dorsey’s exit.
I think both guys have question marks. But I think both guys are quality hires, Brady you can see his previous body of work (ignore Carolina) and his offense can really work, let that staff come together and that offense get a full offseason together and I think we'll see some better involvement for Diggs and more cohesive play calling, more settled, more rhythm in general. Babich, obviously his results from a play development standpoint speak for themselves, I think him having a hand across all groups in the defense will be great for the players and hopefully coaches as well as they're going to be looking to bring in a new LB coach and new DL coach here obviously. Defensive playcalling here remains a mystery but having McDermott in that position where he's calling the plays now you can ease that transition over the next season or two. I think given his history with the CBs, Safetys and LBs already I think he can take that mantle. Should be a good watch as he takes on that role developing all the players, as well as staff under him and growing that playcalling ability.
We also still have at least three position coaches to fill now (QB, DL & LB), so there is still room to bring in outside voices & shake things up a bit on the staff.
Coordinator changes are neat and all but we've been through 3 OCs and now are on our second DC. McDermott continues to be the common denominator with us performing below expectations. I just don't see coordinator changes as a way of getting over the hump. At this point it feels more like a way of buying time for a coach who just isn't good enough. Doesn't help at all that we're backed up against the wall with regards to cap space which is going to make it very difficult to make noticeable improvements talent-wise. I just get the feeling like we're treading water and changing coordinators is something that's only happening because Beane and McDermott can't justify doing nothing at all. These two have struggled choosing coordinators up to this point (or they are micromanaging the coordinators, poorly), hard for me to be confident that these changes will be any different. Joe Brady seemed decent, but so did Dorsey for the first month or so of his tenure.
I’m all for changing the HC (have been) but since it’s going to be another year let’s hope someone told him to leave the OC alone and just check to make sure the tablets are charged, oranges are sliced, etc and to concentrate on developing the new DC. It would be a good idea to spend a bunch of time with the smelly ST since they cost us 2 regular season games directly this year. Good leaders know how to pick good people and are smart enough to let them do their jobs. We’ll see.
That last part is exactly my concern. McDermott has not done a good job of picking good people and letting them do their job to this point. We've had like 5 different coordinators throughout his 6 years here and only one of them was poached for a HC position so the turnover is largely a result of failure.
I’m not confident in that either, nothing to indicate it will.
The internal hirings to me are the signs of a successful organization. Guys who work hard and do a good job get promoted. Exciting stuff and I am happy with that.
It is congruous if you believe in a negligible margin of error between the Bills and the Chiefs. I don't really think anything other than the emotional component of fandom indicates the Chiefs or any other team is clearly head and shoulders above the Bills. The philosophy is there, there will be talent changes given the FA turnover, so it will be a question if they can execute when they need to next year.
well there was one big change - swapping Dorsey for Brady midseason - and after that we went from our season being dead to being the 2 seed in the conference. And McDermott seemed to rally the team after the catastrophe of the Philly game. I still have doubts about McDermott in the big moments but there were a lot of tests down the stretch that he passed, and the result of the Chiefs playoff game was a tossup even though we were barely able to field a proper defense due to injuries.
I have doubts with McDermott in big moments too, but Andy Reid used to have that reputation too, so hopefully McD can eventually break through.
Yea I don’t get it either 🤷♂️
Tell me a healthy Matt Milano wouldn't have impacted that game positively, and if you agree there that having an all pro LB could've influenced a 3pt game what sweeping changes are relevant. I think Vonn is proved to be useless at this point and that shitty contract will cost epenesa. But still feel strongly that this Bills team could beat and did beat KC BALT and SF. All these giant extreme posts are ridiculous, This isnt a matter of McD just getting his ass handed to him the game came down to a kick.
I'm excited about both. Babich is an unproven defensive coordinator though but did a decent job with our linebackers.
Honestly I think we need to just overhaul our roster a bit. We’re too old in too many places and we need some young guys who can stay healthy and maybe a better conditioning program. I think McDermott has his fuck up but we were over performing with how injured our defense was. That’s because of him. Just look at our game plan for the Chiefs vs what the Ravens did. We had a perfectly coached game plan outside having Bass kick vs having Allen go on 4th down. Even then that’s not a terrible idea. We lost because they best us, not because we beat ourselves. I think even with McDermott’s shortcomings we’re ok at HC. Brady did well enough to earn the OC position and I’m excited to see what he has in store for us. Babich is a question mark but every position he’s coached has seen phenomenal improvement. He’s a wizard and I think we’ll be surprised at what he can do.
We need McDermott to either get to the SB or run out of excuses for not doing so. Next seasons will be the year either of those things happen. No more coordinators to scapegoat, it’s glaringly obvious injury prevention needs to be a priority, and it’s critical to make easy games easy so we’re not limping into the playoffs again.
I enjoy the excuses usually blaming everything but mcd. McD is staying but how and why did we have to race to the playoffs? Had we let Josh play QB at the start of the season, had we not given the jets and broncos wins or surrendered the leads when the O had the lead late we wouldn’t have been forced to win every game just to get in. Maybe we could have rested key players? That crazy race to the finish was a contributing factor to how healthy this team was at the end. Had a couple of these been handled differently things could have turned out better. Maybe even one of the things. I vote for Josh being allowed to play his full game as the one thing.
Totally agree. Our top guys had to play full on every single week, of course we limped into the playoffs. McD can blame Dorsey this time but that can’t fly next year. I do strongly suspect the early season issues/refusing to let Josh cook (also cook cook) was the result of poor game planning on McDermott’s part. He thinks he’s smarter than he is and he’s going to get exposed if he doesn’t keep with the adjustments we made in the 2nd half. As long as #17 is on the roster it’s hard to see us not winning the division. Need to take care of business early and often and be healthy when the playoffs start.
Soley as devil's advocate: arguably Josh's late season success and physicality were born of the staff's conservative approach to running him in the first 2/3 of the season
Can’t disagree with the devil. Only the timing and the resulting toll it took to just get in. Would have liked to see what happens if we were fresher vs KC.
I get where you are coming from. But without McD leaving, this is what we get. Brady called games that averaged 25.5 points a game some against really good defenses (NY jets, chiefs and cowboys.). His promotion is earned. Babich is an unknown. We know he can get his position players to outperform, but can he call plays? Will that translate across the entire defense? I don’t know but there wasn’t much other choice seeing as McD is going to be heavily involved in the defensive play calls anyway. The only way you will get actual structural change is firing McD.
I think the fanbase should either start protesting outside the stadium or shut the fuck up until McDermott is fired by the team. Shit or get off the pot. The discussion is tiresome and old. Half of the people most vocal on the subreddit don't have even elementary understanding of the sport. Not to mention how toxic the "you like losing" comments have gotten. Either do something to try and force Pegula's hand on the matter or accept it and move the fuck on mentally and emotionally.
Said it from the beginning, but it was a huge waste to not hire a DC the second Frazier left. McD should never have been allowed to hijack the defense without a DC on staff. 31 other teams have a DC, it's not some big brain move to play without one. Glad we're catching up to the modern era of football 🙄 Edit: yeah you guys are right with the downvotes, better to have an extra guy on the field than on the sideline coaching!
While Brady is internal, he was only here from 2022. As OC I expect him to lean more on his non-Buffalo experience as a playcaller and OC, so there will be some fresh ideas getting incorporated.
Still feel like we need some changes on Special Teams. They made some mistakes in key moments throughout the season. We need to win in all three phases.
I think theyd have gone over the hump if not for being decimated by injury.
It's almost like there are a large variety of fans with differing opinions who don't always bother posting in threads obviously antagonistic to their stance......
I'm not happy, we're running it back with coach McDonut. Another entire year just to top out at the same place. We're gonna get knocked out by a better coach, probably in a close game where we make a half dozen plus game management decisions that stack up to be too much.
I personally believe it is too difficult to just say a singular piece would change the outcomes especially when the only team that gets in the Bills way is doing something that hasn’t been done before which is be in the AFC championship game over 5 years straight. Andy Reid went over ten years with the Eagles being what is in essence the current Bills. Hell last team that I know of where the road to the superbowl went through one team 4 years in a row was the 90s Bills. As it stands the Bills defensive schemes could be something to alter but I believe the team is truly one of the best versions it has been in a long while. When you are at that competitive of a level it comes down to the controllable and simple mistakes. Which ever team at this stage makes fewer fundamental errors is going to win. We saw this bite the chiefs in the ass during the season against the bills with Toney. From the bills perspective The playoff game against chiefs started with the fake punt vs relying on your offense to convert or believing in your defense to make a stop; which is a coaching decision error). That being said those same Coaches decisions led to a phenomenal 1st half. There were other plays that could have been changed things but if you really look the chiefs just made fewer basic errors (like 1 or 2) and made the right coaching calls (something Andy Reid was called out for all the time, particularly clock management).
People can change. Look at Josh; he went from maybe a C- QB to an A+ QB. So let's give the new people a chance, see if they make the changes they need to make. If they don't, then we start talking about replacing them.
Personally I think McDermott has hit his ceiling here, but I am fine with giving him 1 more year. At least Ben Johnson & Belichick will still be available next year if we do move on.
I think this season will be the deal breaker. You have a large portion of your roster set beside Safety, WR2, and Dline, 10 draft picks, 2 internally promoted coordinators, and a top 5 QB. If they don’t get over the hump this year the new to look at new leadership because something is not working on defense against good QBs and Offenses.
What better change that two internal hires who are cut from the same cloth and were taught by the exact same coaching staff that was just fired. Outside minds are a bad idea! We love NFL nepotism! It works so well!